From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Texas Canoe Trip Date: 01 Jul 2002 02:50:06 EDT In a message dated 6/30/02 8:37:47 AM, lanneyratcliff@charter.net writes: << http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/3574111.htm >> Lanney..... Thanks for the good read! I went to the site just to look at a couple paragraphs, and ended up reading the entire piece .... It reminded me somewhat of Buck's run down the Missouri.... and that was a great trip! Canoes are my most favorite way of getting around the NW and dammed if that story didn't get me pumped for a run somewhere. Now, if it weren't for them blood sucking skeeters on the Yakima...... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Elk Park Rendezvous Date: 02 Jul 2002 06:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Ho the list! To anyone who is planning to go to the Elk Park Rendezvous-The entire area is a tinderbox, with one fire about 20 miles North of the site having consumed 13,000 acres and still uncontrolled. I am not trying to discourage anyone, but you may want to check on the Mustang Fire in Utah. They currently have closed sections of the forest. Does anyone have a contact number? I can't seem to locate my map and letter, so can't update any more info. With luck, I'll see you there, Dog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Elk Park Rendezvous Date: 02 Jul 2002 19:39:43 -0600 on 7/2/02 7:18 AM, Ronald Schrotter at mail4dog@yahoo.com wrote: > Ho the list! To anyone who is planning to go to the > Elk Park Rendezvous-The entire area is a tinderbox, > with one fire about 20 miles North of the site having > consumed 13,000 acres and still uncontrolled. I am not > trying to discourage anyone, but you may want to check > on the Mustang Fire in Utah. They currently have > closed sections of the forest. Does anyone have a > contact number? I can't seem to locate my map and > letter, so can't update any more info. With luck, > I'll see you there, Dog > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Dog, Sounds like a dry camp to me. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Elk Park Rendezvous Date: 02 Jul 2002 12:53:46 EDT --part1_91.1f554d39.2a53349a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dog For contact numbers for the Rendezvous go to : http://acs.digitaljam.com/rockymntnatlrendz/rendezvouz2002.html I was going to ride in to Rendezvous but we are going to be doing our ride else where now, to many fires over there for a five day ride. Crazy --part1_91.1f554d39.2a53349a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dog
For contact numbers for the Rendezvous go to :
http://acs.digitaljam.com/rockymntnatlrendz/rendezvouz2002.html
I was going to ride in to Rendezvous but we are going to be doing our ride else where now, to many fires over there for a five day ride.
Crazy --part1_91.1f554d39.2a53349a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: RMNR cancelled Date: 02 Jul 2002 15:57:28 -0500 Following received from an Arkansas list I subscribe to. I had no plans to attend but thought this might be of interest if anyone on this list was. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: MtMan-List: Oil Cloth Date: 02 Jul 2002 16:06:25 -0600 Does anyone have a good formula for making oil cloth? I want to use it on linen, hemp or perhaps canvas. I have used the linseed oil and iron oxide mix on canvas and linen now I want to make oil cloth. Thanks. Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: MtMan-List: Oil Cloth Date: 02 Jul 2002 16:07:28 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C221E2.8FEA07C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have a good formula for making oil cloth? I want to use it = on linen, hemp or perhaps canvas. I have used the linseed oil and iron = oxide mix on canvas and linen now I want to make oil cloth. Thanks. Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C221E2.8FEA07C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have a good formula for making oil cloth? I want to use = it on=20 linen, hemp or perhaps canvas. I have used the linseed oil and iron = oxide=20 mix on canvas and linen now I want to make oil cloth. Thanks.
 
Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C221E2.8FEA07C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mtnman1449@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fred Gowans in Pinedale Date: 02 Jul 2002 22:24:13 EDT --part1_9a.27e6d485.2a53ba4d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heard his talk and did his tour a number of years ago. VERY worth whatever amount the entrance fee is. Fred knows his stuff!! Patrick J. Surrena Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449 Colorado --part1_9a.27e6d485.2a53ba4d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Heard his talk and did his tour a number of years ago.  VERY worth whatever amount the entrance fee is.  Fred knows his stuff!!

Patrick J. Surrena
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449
Colorado --part1_9a.27e6d485.2a53ba4d_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fred Gowans in Pinedale Date: 02 Jul 2002 21:44:08 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5936.6564.7a6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat, Don't recall seeing you around these parts for a long spell. You been back in the shadows all this time? Missed you at the rendezvous...were you hiding there also? Teton (We met at Pinedale in 97?) On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:24:13 EDT Mtnman1449@aol.com writes: Heard his talk and did his tour a number of years ago. VERY worth whatever amount the entrance fee is. Fred knows his stuff!! Patrick J. Surrena Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men, #1449 Colorado "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html ----__JNP_000_5936.6564.7a6a Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pat,
 
Don't recall seeing you around these parts for a long spell. You been = back=20 in the shadows all this time?
Missed you at the rendezvous...were you hiding there also?
 
Teton
(We met at Pinedale in 97?)
 
 
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:24:13 EDT Mtnman1449@aol.com writes:
Heard his talk and did = his tour a=20 number of years ago.  VERY worth whatever amount the entrance fee=20 is.  Fred knows his stuff!!

Patrick J.=20 Surrena
Jim Baker Party, The American Mountain Men,=20 #1449
Colorado
 

"Teton" Todd D. Glover=20 #1784
http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html
----__JNP_000_5936.6564.7a6a-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: MtMan-List: journal entries for the 4th Date: 03 Jul 2002 16:00:45 -0600 With this great day in American history, here are a few good journal entries which tell what life was like in the fur trade: Fourth of July, Calm, misty, silent. In the bottom of my saddle bags, rolled in a handkerchief, was a flag given me by pop Hamilton Boden, and by the time the haze had gone, it floated in the breeze, from the top of the highest tree near our camp; nature was all in a smile, and we prepared to spend the day according to our various inclinations. Some slept, some basked in indolence, some started off to look for game, some looked to their saddle bags and blankets; all was rest, at least from travel, and I unpacked my paper and pencils and made a sketch of the “fourth of July camp”… When evening came, mess No. 4, all good singers, gave us some beautiful choruses from operas, as well as simpler songs, and at night brought the solemn quite, and the moon glided in its ordained course, “Old Hundred” was sung with the most solemn feelings of reverence and adoration. John Audubon, pp. 116-7. July 4th We traveled a short distance today when on arriving at a large spring of most delicious water situated in a beautiful grove, where we concluded to spend the National Anniversary of American Independence; and accordingly our hunters went out in the afternoon and killed several buffalo, which were dressed and the choice parts prepared for a grand feast tomorrow. When the morn of the glorious forth first dawned we gave three salutes, spent the morning in various kinds of amusement and at noon partook of our national dinner, which was relished the better as we had a small portion of good old brandy, which we drank in a few minutes, deeply regretting that we had not small portion of what was that day destroyed by the millions of freemen in the states.- The remainder of the day was celebrated by drinking toasts, singing songs, shooting at mark, running, jumping and practicing on our horses- having the two Spaniards with us, who learned us many singular pranks, and were a variable addition to our company, as they created a great deal of fun and were always in good humor. Zenas Leonard, p. 216-7. July 4th Our boat [bull boat] being completed, we loaded it with the baggage and crossed to the other side, but on returning we ran into some brush, then it instantly filled and sunk … we now commenced making a raft of logs that had drifted on the island, on this we put our remainder of equipment, 10 of us started with it for the other side but we no sooner reached the rapid current than our raft became unmanageable and all efforts to reach the other side were vain and fearing lest we should run on to the dreadful rapids to which we were fast approaching, we abandoned the raft and committed our selves to the mercy of the current. We being tolerable good swimmers, excepting myself, I would fain have called for help, but at this critical period every one had to shift for himself, fortunately I scrambled to the shore among the last swimmers. We were now on the side from when we started without a single article of bedding except an old cloth tent whilst the rain poured incessantly. Fortunately we had built a large fire previous to our departure on the raft, which was still burning. I began to reflect on the miserable condition of myself and those around me, without clothing, provisions or fire arms and drenched to the skin with rain. I thought of those who were perhaps at this moment celebrating the anniversary of our Independence in my native land or seated around tables loaded with richest dainties that a rich independent and enlightened country could afford or perhaps collected in gay saloons relating the heroic deeds of our ancestors or joining in the nimble dance forgetful of cares and toils whist here presented a group of human beings crouched round a fire which the rain was fast diminishing, mediating on their deplorable condition, not knowing at what moment we might be aroused by the shrill war cry of the hostile savages with which the country was infested, whilst not an article for defense except our butcher knifes remained in our procession. The night at length came on and we lay down to await the events of the morrow, day light appeared and we started down along the shore in hopes of finding something that might get loose from the raft and drift upon the beach- we had not gone a mile when we discovered the raft lodged upon a gravel bar which projected from a island where it had been driven by the current. We hastened through the water waist deep to the spot where tour great surprise and satisfaction we found everything safe upon the raft in the same manner we had left it. Osborne Russell, pps. 18-9. July 4th I caught about 20 very fine salmon trout which together with fat mutton buffalo beef and coffee and the manner in which it was served up constituted a dinner that ought to be considered independent by even by the Britons. Osborne Russell, p. 97. July 4th, Pawnee Fork. Saturday. What a disastrous celebration I have today. It is certainly the greatest miracle that I have my head on my shoulders. I think I can never forget it if I live to be as old as my grandmother. The wagons left Pawnee Rock some time before us. —For I was anxious to see this wonderful curiosity. We went up and while mi alma with his gun and pistols kept watch, for the wily Indian may always be apprehended here, it is a good lurking place and they are ever ready to fall upon any unfortunate trader behind his company—and it is necessary to be careful, so while mi alma watched on the rock above and Jane stood by to watch if any should come up on the front side of me, I cut my name, among the many hundreds inscribed on the rock and many of whom I knew. It was not done well, for fear of Indians made me tremble all over and I hurried it over in any way. This I remarked would be quite an adventure to celebrate the 4th! but woe betide I have yet another to relate. The wagons being some distance ahead we rode on quite briskly to overtake them. In an hour’s time we had driven some six miles, and at Ash Creek we came up with them. No water in the creek and the crossing pretty good only a tolerably steep bank on the first side of it, all but two had passed over, and as these were not up we drove on ahead of them to cross first. The bank though a little steep was smooth and there could be no difficulty in riding down it. — However, we had made up our minds always to walk down such places in case of accident, and before we got to it mi alma hallowed “woe” as he always does when he wishes to stop, but as there was no motion made by the driver to that effect, he repeated it several times and with much vehemence. We had now reached the very verge of the cliff and seeing it a good way and apparently less dangerous than jumping out as we were, he said “go on.” The word was scarcely from his lips, ere we were whirled completely over with a perfect crash. One to see the wreck of that carriage now with the top and sides entirely broken to pieces, could never believe that people had come out of it alive. But strange, wonderful to say, we are almost entirely unhurt! I was considerably stunned at first and could not stand on my feet. Mi alma forgetting himself and entirely enlisted for my safety carried me in his arms to a shade tree, almost entirely without my knowledge, and rubbing my face and hands with whiskey soon brought me entire to myself. — My back and side are a little hurt, but is very small compared with what it might have been. Mi alma has his left hip and arm on which he fell both bruised and strained, but not seriously. Dear creature ’twas for me he received this, for had he not caught me in his arms as we fell he could have saved himself entirely. And then I should perhaps have been killed or much crushed for the top fell over me, and it was only his hands that kept it off of me. It is better as it is, for we can sympathize more fully with each other. Susan Magoffin, pps. 40 – 41. 4th of July, the sun rose in pale misty majesty and was saluted by Several guns forum those out on the morning watch Soon after the Stars & Stripes floated in the Breeze the American Jubilee was but little further noticed than that the star Spangled Banner floated from Esqr. Roland’s wagon throughout the day. James Clyman, p. 89. July 4, The sun arose in his usual majestic splendor no firing of canon was heard no flags waving to the early morning Breeze. Nothing no nothing heard but the occasional howl of the wolf or the hoarse croak of the raven nothing seen But the green wide spread Prairie and the shallow wide spread river [Platte] rolling its disturbed muddy waters far to the East the only relief is the on rising ground occasionally doted with a few straggling male Buffalo and one Lonely Junt of a cotton wood Tree some miles down the stream the only occupant of a small low Island (not much variety) O my country and my Country men the rich smiling surface of on[e] and the glad some Shouts of the other Here we are 8 men 2 women and one boy this day entering into an enemies country who if possible will Butcher every individual or at least strip us of every means of comfort or convenience and leave us to make our tiresome way to relief and this immediately on your frontier and under the eye of a strong Military post The day proved very still and warm and we overtook a small party of Emigrants that ware ahead consisting of seven men 2 young Ladies and one very sick man some of their company having left them an hour before our arrival on account of their slow traveling The eight men that had parted from these in their defenseless state intended to make a rapid Push and travel day and night until they passed the Pawnee Territory. James Clyman, p. 262. I hope the day finds all of you in good health, good spirits and thankful to be living in a good country. mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: journal entries for the 4th Date: 03 Jul 2002 19:09:26 EDT In a message dated 7/3/02 4:04:58 PM, amm1616@earthlink.net writes: << With this great day in American history, here are a few good journal entries which tell what life was like in the fur trade:>> Mike This was a good message. Thanks for taking the time. I'm keeping a copy of this one. Dick James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: journal entries for the 4th Date: 03 Jul 2002 22:11:48 -0500 Mike Moore shared with us some July 4th journal entries, including the following: When evening came, mess No. 4, all good singers, gave us some beautiful choruses from operas, as well as simpler songs, and at night brought the solemn quite, and the moon glided in its ordained course, "Old Hundred" was sung with the most solemn feelings of reverence and adoration. John Audubon, pp. 116-7 Click on the first link to hear a portion of Old Hundred recorded in 1958. The second link appears to be a 1920 recording and I would wager that it sounds more like the rendition offered by the 4th mess. Listening to this ancient hymn took me back in time as surely as a time machine. I swear I could smell the smoke from the fires from the various messes. See if it does the same for you.....scroll down on each page to find the old hymn. It's worth the trouble. http://www.lib.virginia.edu/speccol/exhibits/music/audio.html http://www2.nlc-bnc.ca/gramophone/plsql/browse.display_titles?bet=O&lang=e Here is more about it: ld Hundredth(Amer. Old Hundred) Metrical psalm tune of uncertain origin. Its name indicates that it was set to the 100th psalm in the `old' version of the metrical psalms, i.e. Sternhold and Hopkins as distinct from Tate and Brady. The edn. of this version in which it first appeared was Daye's of 1560-1, where it was set to the words `All people that on earth do dwell' by W. Kethe. But the history of the tune goes back to Marot and Béza's Genevan Psalter of 1551, in which it is attached to the 134th psalm. An even earlier form of the tune appears in the Antwerp collection Souter Liederkens (1540). A ceremonial arr. of the tune for ch., congregation, orch., organ, and `all available trumpets' was made by Vaughan Williams for the coronation of Elizabeth II, 1953. (It was also perf. at his funeral in Westminster Abbey, 1958.) The Oxford Dictionary of Music, © Oxford University Press 1994 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: journal entries for the 4th Date: 03 Jul 2002 23:27:33 -0600 Lanney and the list: The "Old Hundred" is actually the "Old 100th" (an older version of the 100th psalm) written by the Calvinist Louis Bourgeois written sometime before 1551 as it appeared in the Genevan Psalter of that year. The lyrics are attributed to another Calvinist, William Kethe, who wrote them between 1551 and 1561 since both Bourgeois' melody and Kethe's lyrics appear in the Fourscore and Seven Psalms of David (Geneva, 1561). A new version of Kethe's lyrics was written in 1674 by Thomas Ken, an Anglican priest, and the last stanza of Ken's lyrics, along with Bourgeois' melody, now forms probably the best known and most sung piece of liturgical music in Christian churches, both Catholic and Protestant. We call it "the Doxology": Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow; Praise Him, all creatures here below; Praise Him above, ye heavenly host; Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. (Does it sound really familiar to you now? The "Old Hundred" is still a major part of Sunday worship all over the English speaking world.) Sorry to have to correct/clarify the Oxford Musical Dictionary on this one but just because it has "Oxford" in the title doesn't mean it's always right. And you guys thought I just knew something about Lewis and Clark! Happy 4th of July and God Bless the United States of America. John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:11 PM > Mike Moore shared with us some July 4th journal entries, including the > following: > > When evening came, mess No. 4, all good singers, gave us some > beautiful choruses from operas, as well as simpler songs, and at night > brought the solemn quite, and the moon glided in its ordained course, > "Old Hundred" was sung with the most solemn feelings of reverence and > adoration. > John Audubon, pp. 116-7 > > Click on the first link to hear a portion of Old Hundred recorded in 1958. > The second link appears to be a 1920 recording and I would wager that it > sounds more like the rendition offered by the 4th mess. Listening to this > ancient hymn took me back in time as surely as a time machine. I swear I > could smell the smoke from the fires from the various messes. See if it > does the same for you.....scroll down on each page to find the old hymn. > It's worth the trouble. > > http://www.lib.virginia.edu/speccol/exhibits/music/audio.html > > http://www2.nlc-bnc.ca/gramophone/plsql/browse.display_titles?bet=O&lang=e > > Here is more about it: > ld Hundredth(Amer. Old Hundred) > > > > Metrical psalm tune of uncertain origin. Its name indicates that it was set > to the 100th psalm in the `old' version of the metrical psalms, i.e. > Sternhold and Hopkins as distinct from Tate and Brady. The edn. of this > version in which it first appeared was Daye's of 1560-1, where it was set to > the words `All people that on earth do dwell' by W. Kethe. But the history > of the tune goes back to Marot and Béza's Genevan Psalter of 1551, in which > it is attached to the 134th psalm. An even earlier form of the tune appears > in the Antwerp collection Souter Liederkens (1540). A ceremonial arr. of the > tune for ch., congregation, orch., organ, and `all available trumpets' was > made by Vaughan Williams for the coronation of Elizabeth II, 1953. (It was > also perf. at his funeral in Westminster Abbey, 1958.) > > > The Oxford Dictionary of Music, © Oxford University Press 1994 > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Happy 4th of July Date: 04 Jul 2002 06:49:39 -0700 (PDT) HURRAH FOR OLD GLORY! LONG MAY SHE WAVE! Be safe all, and enjoy the freedoms we've gathered over the last 226 years. Raise a glass to those who came before, and another to those who will follow. Happy 4th of July! Dog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: journal entries for the 4th Date: 04 Jul 2002 11:50:46 -0500 That is good information John. I have heard the four lines of the Doxology countless times but I can't recall ever hearing the entire song, either in it's older version or with the words written by Ken. I wonder what the fourth mess sang? I have my own guess, but that's all it is. Here is a tiny bit more information: http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/p/r/praisegf.htm Have a safe and joyous Independence Day. Don't let your guard down for anything the Bad Guys might pull, but don't hide under the bed either. We are having BBQ brisket and pig ribs, potato salad, chipotle seasoned pinto beans, a chocolate whiskey cake and gallons of iced tea. Wish all of you were here helping us celebrate. Later I will fly my copy of the thirteen star Bennington flag http://www.benningtonmuseum.com/flaghistory.html and about dusk I'll go out the cemetery to visit my Dad. Gonna be a good day. Lanney ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 12:27 AM > Lanney and the list: > > The "Old Hundred" is actually the "Old 100th" (an older version of the 100th > psalm) written by the Calvinist Louis Bourgeois written sometime before 1551 > as it appeared in the Genevan Psalter of that year. The lyrics are > attributed to another Calvinist, William Kethe, who wrote them between 1551 > and 1561 since both Bourgeois' melody and Kethe's lyrics appear in the > Fourscore and Seven Psalms of David (Geneva, 1561). > > A new version of Kethe's lyrics was written in 1674 by Thomas Ken, an > Anglican priest, and the last stanza of Ken's lyrics, along with Bourgeois' > melody, now forms probably the best known and most sung piece of liturgical > music in Christian churches, both Catholic and Protestant. We call it "the > Doxology": > > Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow; > Praise Him, all creatures here below; > Praise Him above, ye heavenly host; > Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. > > (Does it sound really familiar to you now? The "Old Hundred" is still a > major part of Sunday worship all over the English speaking world.) > > Sorry to have to correct/clarify the Oxford Musical Dictionary on this one > but just because it has "Oxford" in the title doesn't mean it's always > right. > > And you guys thought I just knew something about Lewis and Clark! > > Happy 4th of July and God Bless the United States of America. > > John > > Dr. John L. Allen > 2703 Leslie Court > Laramie, WY 82072-2979 > Phone: (307) 742-0883 > Fax: (307) 742-0886 > e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanney Ratcliff" > To: ; "AMM" > Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 9:11 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: journal entries for the 4th > > > > Mike Moore shared with us some July 4th journal entries, including the > > following: > > > > When evening came, mess No. 4, all good singers, gave us some > > beautiful choruses from operas, as well as simpler songs, and at night > > brought the solemn quite, and the moon glided in its ordained course, > > "Old Hundred" was sung with the most solemn feelings of reverence and > > adoration. > > John Audubon, pp. 116-7 > > > > Click on the first link to hear a portion of Old Hundred recorded in 1958. > > The second link appears to be a 1920 recording and I would wager that it > > sounds more like the rendition offered by the 4th mess. Listening to this > > ancient hymn took me back in time as surely as a time machine. I swear I > > could smell the smoke from the fires from the various messes. See if it > > does the same for you.....scroll down on each page to find the old hymn. > > It's worth the trouble. > > > > http://www.lib.virginia.edu/speccol/exhibits/music/audio.html > > > > http://www2.nlc-bnc.ca/gramophone/plsql/browse.display_titles?bet=O&lang=e > > > > Here is more about it: > > ld Hundredth(Amer. Old Hundred) > > > > > > > > Metrical psalm tune of uncertain origin. Its name indicates that it was > set > > to the 100th psalm in the `old' version of the metrical psalms, i.e. > > Sternhold and Hopkins as distinct from Tate and Brady. The edn. of this > > version in which it first appeared was Daye's of 1560-1, where it was set > to > > the words `All people that on earth do dwell' by W. Kethe. But the history > > of the tune goes back to Marot and Béza's Genevan Psalter of 1551, in > which > > it is attached to the 134th psalm. An even earlier form of the tune > appears > > in the Antwerp collection Souter Liederkens (1540). A ceremonial arr. of > the > > tune for ch., congregation, orch., organ, and `all available trumpets' was > > made by Vaughan Williams for the coronation of Elizabeth II, 1953. (It was > > also perf. at his funeral in Westminster Abbey, 1958.) > > > > > > The Oxford Dictionary of Music, © Oxford University Press 1994 > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Catahoula V" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oil Cloth Date: 04 Jul 2002 17:19:09 +0000 Gene, I have used a mixture of 1 part boiled linseed oil, 2 parts turpentine, and 1 wax commode bowl ring melted together. I dye my canvas first then saturate the dryed cloth with the mixture. It takes several days for the cloth to dry, but I have made water buckets from the resulting cloth with much sucess. Catahoula >From: "Gene Hickman" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: MtMan-List: Oil Cloth >Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:07:28 -0600 > >Does anyone have a good formula for making oil cloth? I want to use it on >linen, hemp or perhaps canvas. I have used the linseed oil and iron oxide >mix on canvas and linen now I want to make oil cloth. Thanks. > >Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drudy@xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Refinance and Save $$$ Date: 04 Jul 2002 20:37:43 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_661_5015350868253350743164665482 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable We will help you get the mortgage loan you want! Only takes 2 minutes to fill out our form. http://61.172.250.143/cl6/st/index.php Whether a new home loan is what you seek or to refinance your current home = loan at a lower interest rate and payment, we can help! Mortgage rates haven't been this low in the last 12 months, take action now! Refinance your home with us and include all of those pesky credit card bills = or use the extra cash for that pool you've always wanted... Where others says NO, we say YES!!! Even if you have been turned down elsewhere, we can help! Easy terms! Our mortgage referral service combines the highest quality loans with most economical rates and the easiest = qualification! Click Here to fill out our form. http://61.172.250.143/cl6/st/index.php ------=_NextPart_661_5015350868253350743164665482 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mortgage companies make you wait

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Dean
I tried to utillize this site's "remove" feature but = was=20 denied access.  Can you add this outfit to you "blocksender list" = or get=20 rid of them is some other way?
I like my Spam sliced thin, cooked nearly burnt=20 and served with fried eggs and toast......about once a = year..
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----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:37 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Refinance and Save $$$

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<= /TD>

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------=_NextPart_000_008C_01C22399.5193BBC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Any help here ?? OT ?? Date: 06 Jul 2002 11:06:13 -0700 (PDT) PS By the way,what do you know about the Mississippi Choctaw Indians ? Anything. ? I know you know about a lot of Native American stuff. I need some info about pre Dawes rolls and finding 'THE' Indian, or how to go about it. I don't know if that is even possible with all the lore about not mentioning the names of their dead and all that. ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hikingonthru@cs.com Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Any help here ?? OT ?? Date: 06 Jul 2002 15:30:42 -0400 George Noe wrote: >PS By the way,what do you know about the Mississippi >Choctaw Indians ? Anything.>> George, for basic history and geo-political dynamics affecting most southeast tribes...go to Charles Hudson's book "Southeastern Indians"/"Native Americans of the Southeast" or something along those lines. The last couple chapters are fairly detailed in pre-removal to removal tribal locations. He mentions the Choctaw tribe a good many times. Then go to the back and look up his sources! Hope that helps... -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drudy@xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Mortgage Rates Have Never Been Lower Date: 07 Jul 2002 03:04:35 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_1143_656554254830465006444 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We will help you get the mortgage loan you want! Only takes 2 minutes to fill out our form. http://211.163.194.36/st/index.php Whether a new home loan is what you seek or to refinance your current home = loan at a lower interest rate and payment, we can help! Mortgage rates haven't been this low in the last 12 months, take action now! Refinance your home with us and include all of those pesky credit card bills = or use the extra cash for that pool you've always wanted... Where others says NO, we say YES!!! Even if you have been turned down elsewhere, we can help! Easy terms! Our mortgage referral service combines the highest quality loans with most economical rates and the easiest = qualification! Click Here to fill out our form. http://211.163.194.36/st/index.php ------=_NextPart_1143_656554254830465006444 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Get the perfect mortgage fast. It's simple.

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------=_NextPart_1143_656554254830465006444-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Thanks ! C.Kent Date: 07 Jul 2002 13:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Thanks for your help ! When Sue ask me for info I knew someone on the list would be able to help her. Here is her thanks also. I know Sue is big into Genealogy research, but don't know why she needed this type of info. Thanks again !!!! grn : Thanks so much for all this information and thank your friend !!!....this is a truly wonderful bit of information and I do appreciate it !!! The 'Southeastern Indians' is touted as a masterpiece [and some of it is online even ] It truly is more than I ever expected to find anywhere ....I think it might just be that. Again thanks allbest Sue --- hikingonthru@cs.com wrote: > George Noe wrote: > > >PS By the way,what do you know about the > Mississippi > >Choctaw Indians ? Anything.>> > > George, for basic history and geo-political dynamics > affecting most southeast tribes...go to Charles > Hudson's book "Southeastern Indians"/"Native > Americans of the Southeast" or something along those > lines. The last couple chapters are fairly detailed > in pre-removal to removal tribal locations. He > mentions the Choctaw tribe a good many times. > Then go to the back and look up his sources! > > Hope that helps... > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JW Stephens Subject: MtMan-List: OT: "Truth and Consequences on the Reservation" Date: 07 Jul 2002 20:57:35 -0700 The LA Times Magazine today featured a cover story on Blackfoot warrior Elouise Cobell and her suit vs. the BIA. I point it out to the list as a follow-up as the topic was mentioned on-list earlier this year. http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-070702magazinecover.story I hear that you may have to register at the site to read the story, but I have not noted any garbage that has accrued to me from registering to read their news. YMMV. B'st'rd ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping. Date: 07 Jul 2002 22:52:38 -0600 (MDT) In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks" advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps. Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?). Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you and go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your site again. And certainly won't cook with it! Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping. Date: 08 Jul 2002 03:21:36 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2262E.912271E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With all due respect, Beaverboy I would like to at least pass on a little food for thought info your way.= As I read your post I couldn't help but think of the "Rule of Twos". N= ow what is this?, you might ask. Well, simply stated, the "rule of twos"= means that everything you take with you should have two or more uses.(un= less it's a specialty item) And the second part of the "rule of twos" st= ates that if you have taken something with you twice and haven't used it,= leave it home. Chances are you can improvise something else or make do = without it. This way of thinking and practice helps in limiting what you= pack, makes lighter loads and is easier on man and horse. While I don't= wish to defend the use of a trap and chain over the fire to hang a cook = pot, I can see how one might think to use one rather than carry extra cha= in or gear for that purpose. Plus, a cook fire shouldn't be that big as = to get hot enough to effect the temper of the steel. In response to what you say concerning trapping "year round", I believe i= n the "rule of thumb" that suggests that trapping is best done when the f= ur is prime. The old trappers figured that trapping months where the mon= ths with an "R" in them. (Sept. thru April) The plews are heavier and wh= en you make your money by the pound (as the trappers of the fur-trade era= did) it makes sense to allow the beaver to prime up a bit. Also, Beaver= can be pretty smart and catch on how to evade the trap if ponds are over= worked year round. And they need time to have thier young so you have s= omething to catch next year. (They darn near wiped them out as it was) M= ost of the journal accounts state that a trapping brigade would only work= a pond (area) for 2-3 days and then be on the move. (I've never read of= someone using a trap for a pillow) =20 So... the summer months then become the hunting season as buffalo are fat= ter from grazing and their hides are thinner requiring less work to thin = down for Tipi covers, etc. And you gotta allow for the month of July to = be for Rendezvous. Most Mountaineers would be far to busy drinking and h= ooraying to be trapping during Rendezvous. While at Rendezvous a man cou= ld repair traps, purchase new ones or forge knives, awls, gun parts, and = other tools from the broken parts. Steel was scarce in the Rockies and r= arely went to waste. =20 As an AMM member I've done my share of improvisation to make due. I will= say that using a trap/chain as a cooking tool is an isolated incident an= d not common practice for most. Thanks for looking at things logically and if you have a different spin o= n it I'd love to hear it as I hope others would. Sincerely, Mike Powell AMM #1769 Poison River Party =20 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:53 PM In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks" advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps= . Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?). Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owne= d only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you an= d go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your site again. And certainly won't cook with it! Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.htmlGe= t more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.co= m ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2262E.912271E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
With all due r= espect, Beaverboy
 
I would like to at least p= ass on a little food for thought info your way.  As I read your post= I couldn't help but think of the "Rule of Twos".  Now what is this?= , you might ask.  Well, simply stated, the "rule of twos" means that=  everything you take with you should have two or more uses.(unless i= t's a specialty item)  And the second part of the "rule of twos" sta= tes that if you have taken something with you twice and haven't used it, = leave it home.  Chances are you can improvise something else or make=  do without it.  This way of thinking and practice helps in lim= iting what you pack, makes lighter loads and is easier on man and horse.&= nbsp; While I don't wish to defend the use of a trap and chain over = the fire to hang a cook pot, I can see how one might think to use one rat= her than carry extra chain or gear for that purpose.  Plus, a cook f= ire shouldn't be that big as to get hot enough to effect the temper of th= e steel.
 
In response to what you say concern= ing trapping "year round", I believe in the "rule of thumb" tha= t suggests that trapping is best done when the fur is prime.  The ol= d trappers figured that trapping months where the months with an "R"= in them. (Sept. thru April)  The plews are heavier and when you mak= e your money by the pound (as the trappers of the fur-trade era did)=  it makes sense to allow the beaver to prime up a bit.  Also, B= eaver can be pretty smart and catch on how to evade the trap if ponds are= over worked year round.  And they need time to have thier young so = you have something to catch next year. (They darn near wiped th= em out as it was)  Most of the journal accounts state that a trappin= g brigade would only work a pond (area) for 2-3 days and then be on the m= ove.  (I've never read of someone using a trap for a pillow) 
 
So... the summer months then become the hunti= ng season as buffalo are fatter from grazing and their hides are thi= nner requiring less work to thin down for Tipi covers, etc.  An= d you gotta allow for the month of July to be for Rendezvous.  Most = Mountaineers would be far to busy drinking and hooraying to be trapping d= uring Rendezvous.  While at Rendezvous a man could repair traps, pur= chase new ones or forge knives, awls, gun parts, and other tools fro= m the broken parts.  Steel was scarce in the Rockies and rarely= went to waste.    
 
As a= n AMM member I've done my share of improvisation to make due.  = I will say that using a trap/chain as a cooking tool is an isolated incid= ent and not common practice for most.
 
Thanks= for looking at things logically and if you have a different spin on it I= 'd love to hear it as I hope others would.
 
S= incerely,
Mike Powell
AMM #1769
Poison R= iver Party
 
 
----= - Original Message -----
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:53 PM
=
To: hist_text@xmission.com
=
Subject: MtMan-List: Traps for coo= king, Traps for trapping.
 
In Rex Allen Norman's re= cent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the
use of a trap or tra= p chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a
fire. I hate to di= sagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very
knowledgable pers= on but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows
anything would never= place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not
directly over it.= No real trapper would take the chance of a very
expensive trap fallin= g into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks"
advice. He further stat= es that he learned this "tip" from a AMM
rendezvous. Evidently those b= oys are more busy cooking than setting traps.
Traps would have been se= t for beaver year round if not they would have
been guarded very near = the trapper as they were very expensive (second
only to his gun, seen = anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?).
Some were wrapped and= used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned
only a few traps= and they were set for what ever was around at the time
not used for c= ooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a
trap hanging= over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in
any old p= aintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you
guys, = get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you and
g= o out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your<= BR>site again. And certainly won't cook with it!
   &nb= sp;   Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles.
&nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        Beaverboy



---= -------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drud= y/mtman/maillist.html

G= et more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2262E.912271E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping. Date: 08 Jul 2002 03:32:59 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C22630.282208C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 3:21 AM With all due respect, Beaverboy I would like to at least pass on a little food for thought info your way.= As I read your post I couldn't help but think of the "Rule of Twos". N= ow what is this?, you might ask. Well, simply stated, the "rule of twos"= means that everything you take with you should have two or more uses.(un= less it's a specialty item) And the second part of the "rule of twos" st= ates that if you have taken something with you twice and haven't used it,= leave it home. Chances are you can improvise something else or make do = without it. This way of thinking and practice helps in limiting what you= pack, makes lighter loads and is easier on man and horse. While I don't= wish to defend the use of a trap and chain over the fire to hang a cook = pot, I can see how one might think to use one rather than carry extra cha= in or gear for that purpose. Plus, a cook fire shouldn't be that big as = to get hot enough to effect the temper of the steel. In response to what you say concerning trapping "year round", I believe i= n the "rule of thumb" that suggests that trapping is best done when the f= ur is prime. The old trappers figured that trapping months where the mon= ths with an "R" in them. (Sept. thru April) The plews are heavier and wh= en you make your money by the pound (as the trappers of the fur-trade era= did) it makes sense to allow the beaver to prime up a bit. Also, Beaver= can be pretty smart and catch on how to evade the trap if ponds are over= worked year round. And they need time to have thier young so you have s= omething to catch next year. (They darn near wiped them out as it was) M= ost of the journal accounts state that a trapping brigade would only work= a pond (area) for 2-3 days and then be on the move. (I've never read of= someone using a trap for a pillow) =20 So... the summer months then become the hunting season as buffalo are fat= ter from grazing and their hides are thinner requiring less work to thin = down for Tipi covers, etc. And you gotta allow for the month of July to = be for Rendezvous. Most Mountaineers would be far to busy drinking and h= ooraying to be trapping during Rendezvous. While at Rendezvous a man cou= ld repair traps, purchase new ones or forge knives, awls, gun parts, and = other tools from the broken parts. Steel was scarce in the Rockies and r= arely went to waste. =20 As an AMM member I've done my share of improvisation to make due. I will= say that using a trap/chain as a cooking tool is an isolated incident an= d not common practice for most. Thanks for looking at things logically and if you have a different spin o= n it I'd love to hear it as I hope others would. Sincerely, Mike Powell AMM #1769 Poison River Party ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2002 10:53 PM In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks" advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps= . Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?). Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owne= d only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you an= d go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your site again. And certainly won't cook with it! Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.c= omGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms= n.com ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C22630.282208C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<= DIV> 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Powell
Sent: Monda= y, July 08, 2002 3:21 AM
To:= History List
Subject: Re: M= tMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping.
 
=
With all due respect, Beaverboy
 
I woul= d like to at least pass on a little food for thought info your way. = As I read your post I couldn't help but think of the "Rule of Twos".&nbs= p; Now what is this?, you might ask.  Well, simply stated, the "rule= of twos" means that everything you take with you should have two or= more uses.(unless it's a specialty item)  And the second part of th= e "rule of twos" states that if you have taken something with you twice a= nd haven't used it, leave it home.  Chances are you can improvise so= mething else or make do without it.  This way of thinking and p= ractice helps in limiting what you pack, makes lighter loads and is easie= r on man and horse.  While I don't wish to defend the use of a = trap and chain over the fire to hang a cook pot, I can see how one might = think to use one rather than carry extra chain or gear for that purpose.&= nbsp; Plus, a cook fire shouldn't be that big as to get hot enough to eff= ect the temper of the steel.
 
In response to = what you say concerning trapping "year round", I believe in the= "rule of thumb" that suggests that trapping is best done when the fur is= prime.  The old trappers figured that trapping months where th= e months with an "R" in them. (Sept. thru April)  The plews are heav= ier and when you make your money by the pound (as the trappers of the fur= -trade era did) it makes sense to allow the beaver to prime up = a bit.  Also, Beaver can be pretty smart and catch on how to evade t= he trap if ponds are over worked year round.  And they need time to = have thier young so you have something to catch next year. (The= y darn near wiped them out as it was)  Most of the journal accounts = state that a trapping brigade would only work a pond (area) for 2-3 days = and then be on the move.  (I've never read of someone using a trap f= or a pillow) 
 
So... the summer months t= hen become the hunting season as buffalo are fatter from grazing and= their hides are thinner requiring less work to thin down for Tipi c= overs, etc.  And you gotta allow for the month of July to be for Ren= dezvous.  Most Mountaineers would be far to busy drinking and hooray= ing to be trapping during Rendezvous.  While at Rendezvous a man cou= ld repair traps, purchase new ones or forge knives, awls, gun parts, = ;and other tools from the broken parts.  Steel was scarce in the Roc= kies and rarely went to waste.    
&n= bsp;
As an AMM member I've done my share of improvisation = ;to make due.  I will say that using a trap/chain as a cooking tool = is an isolated incident and not common practice for most.
&nbs= p;
Thanks for looking at things logically and if you have a di= fferent spin on it I'd love to hear it as I hope others would.
 
Sincerely,
Mike Powell
AMM #1769=
Poison River Party
 
 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: beaverboy@sofas= t.net
Sent: Sunday, July 07,= 2002 10:53 PM
To: hist_text= @xmission.com
Subject: MtMan= -List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping.
 
In R= ex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the
= use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over afire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very<= BR>knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows
= anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not<= BR>directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very
e= xpensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks"
adv= ice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM
rendezvou= s. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps.
Trap= s would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have
bee= n guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second
on= ly to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?).
S= ome were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned=
only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the ti= me
not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to s= ee a
trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see = them in
any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fu= r. Hey you
guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper = to help you and
go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let th= at trap out of your
site again. And certainly won't cook with it!
&= nbsp;      Sorry Rex, but I still love you and y= our articles.
         &n= bsp;           Beaverbo= y



----------------------
hist_text list info: http://ww= w.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Expl= orer download : http://explorer.msn.c= om

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C22630.282208C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping. Date: 08 Jul 2002 06:45:55 -0600 beaverboy, I have not read Rex's latest article, but I do disagree with a couple of your points. 1) traps were not set year round during the fur trade. The out of prime plews made the effort not worth it during the warm months and the time off gave the streams which weren't trapped out a chance to recover (if they ever did). 2) never used a wrapped up trap for a pillow. In fact many other items were mentioned as pillows, like saddles, coats and bags, but never traps. Even folded, they have hard pointy ends which don't make for good sleeping. 3) while you are right about having the whole trap hanging from the tripod (pretty awkward) chains, rope, rawhide and even cut sticks could have been used. When you look at Miler's watercolors and a pot is used, probably a wire or chain may have worked best because of the weight of the pot and the contents. Traps were not put next to the fire, for fear of weakening the springs, which are tempered. 4) alot of traps were cached when not in use. Since they were valuable, and hard to carry- ever carried 6- 12 traps (new or old)? They are heavy, awkward and bounce around against you or your horse unless packed tightly away and padded. They leave bruises. Like with powder, lead, trade goods and other items, caches contained alot of seasonal equipment. This didn't always make them secure, but kept them from begin hauled around all year. 5) tacks, wire, chains and other repair items were availible in the west. And the heating of a chain would not hurt it, unless it melted it. mike. beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the > use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a > fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very > knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows > anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not > directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very > expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks" > advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM > rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps. > Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have > been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second > only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?). > Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned > only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time > not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a > trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in > any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you > guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you and > go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your > site again. And certainly won't cook with it! > Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles. > Beaverboy > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver trapping year round Date: 08 Jul 2002 07:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Dear Michael, Mountain men and indians trapped beaver year round. Journal dates prove this. They cared not one bit about wiping out the beaver. They speared, netted, used dogs,snared, tore apart dens, drained ponds and shot them. If you believe differently, your a romantic. The old "r" in the month rule of thumb came along much later, the early 1900's I believe. In one of Francois-Antoine Larocque's journal (1804) he talks of buying beaver trapped by the indians in August. Not Argust. He only bought 20-30 beaver on that particular trip and the Indians said they thought he had enough. I'm sure Francois didn't think he had enough, especially after traveling all the way from eastern Canada to western North Dakota. I would think the Mountain men followed this rule of thumb "If your still alive, and theres beaver to trap, get them before someone else does!" About the only thing that really stops a beaver trapper is thick ice. This is one time it may not pay to try to trap. Try chopping a big hole in 18" inches of hard ice for a beaver. This is the time the trappers found winter quarters but still they probably looked for an easy beaver. They also trapped fox and wolves at this time as stated in Chardon's Journal of Fort Clark. As a beaver trapper myself (my best year was 95 beaver while working a full time job) I can speak from experience. The best trappers would rather put out a few "good" sets then twice as many shappy sets. And a good trapper never really rests until all his "boys" (traps) are home. A good year is trapping and having fun, a great year is trapping, having fun and not losing any traps! There's nothing worse than a trap thief. Ice flows also have taken thier share of traps downriver. When I finally get them home the last thing I'm going to do is hang them over a hot fire! Not gonna happen and didn't happen. Hand forged traps back then cost up to or more than the average mans monthly wage. They were guarded like thier guns and horses when not set. They trapped any beaver they came across on the way to rendezvous too. More money to spend. I agree with you that winter prime pelts are much better and do weigh more, thats a fact. High mountain streams are ice cold year round so those beaver stay fairly good but not great. I know, I've killed lots of nusance beaver year round for land owners. Luckily today we have strict trapping regulations that prevent brutal methods and ensure the taking of only prime pelts. Trappers today are much more humane and knowledgable. Rules of two sounds good. I like that. So trap beaver and otter with that trap. But don't cook with it. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke Date: 08 Jul 2002 09:43:03 -0400 I read the article with much 'grins". Im sure a lot of BP shooters do alot of what they should not. Apparently he was just adding to the "lore" of his knowledge on the subject. First no trapper worth his salt would hand a trap from a campfire.. Inless, they never trapped and was a pup in das woods. Traps are boiled, and dyied, then waxed... And KEPT away from everything to avoid picking up scents. How would one want "wax" dripping into his stew? Think not.... Im sure his tip came from a drunken weekend at a shoot.. Traps in 1800 on.. were a high prized item and handmade.. no trapper would think of taking the temper outa the springs. Think about it........... Copper boilers used sticks set on angle over a fire mostly... Would i use a trap to hang say a pot?? Hell no.. its a real greenhorn thing to even think of... I shutter even thinking about my steel being done in such a ill reverent way. One HAS to realize most of these articles one see,s in various publications was meant for only one thing... Top get the Authors name in print, that's it.. A bragging right...So many don't take the time to learn a subject like say trapping to even know much about it.. let alone enough to write a article on it. If I has longlining with a partner, and came back to camp and seen him hanging pots from MY traps... someone would take a butt whoopin real quick...And that partner would be packing his pack outa country. I find the article so funny its beyond belief.. He claims it as a tip at a rondy?? Now its a pasted on story of old and gospel at that ! Ya got take a lot of these people for what they are... armchair campers, shooters and certainly don't read much into history nor know nothing about trapping. Ive had my laugh for the week on this one... On 7 Jul 2002 at 22:52, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > In Rex Allen Norman's recent article in the Muzzle Loader he mentions the > use of a trap or trap chain as a cooking device for hanging pots over a > fire. I hate to disagree with Rex who I have met and know to be a very > knowledgable person but this is a big no no. Any trapper who knows > anything would never place a trap anywhere near a fire and certainly not > directly over it. No real trapper would take the chance of a very > expensive trap falling into a bed of hot coals. This is "all looks" > advice. He further states that he learned this "tip" from a AMM > rendezvous. Evidently those boys are more busy cooking than setting traps. > Traps would have been set for beaver year round if not they would have > been guarded very near the trapper as they were very expensive (second > only to his gun, seen anyone hanging a pot off of his barrel lately?). > Some were wrapped and used as pillows when not in use. Most trappers owned > only a few traps and they were set for what ever was around at the time > not used for cooking or hung around camp for looks. I have yet to see a > trap hanging over a fire pit in any old paintings. You don't see them in > any old paintings, why? Because they were set somewhere for fur. Hey you > guys, get a trapping license in your state, find a trapper to help you and > go out a trap a beaver! If you do, you'll never let that trap out of your > site again. And certainly won't cook with it! > Sorry Rex, but I still love you and your articles. > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tetontodd@juno.com Subject: Re:MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke Date: 08 Jul 2002 23:18:18 GMT WindWalker, I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that they did it historically? Just curious. Teton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re:MtMan-List: Traps for Cooking? what a joke Date: 08 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. Also dying. it helps kill the scent. As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. But Im sure some did. Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the rust ans kill the scent as best as possible. One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls ect The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being made at the time and were in high demand. Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. {See Williamsburg Journals} Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the dye.. And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the trap .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being made in volume. On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > WindWalker, > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that they did it historically? Just curious. > > Teton > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 08 Jul 2002 19:39:23 -0600 Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with other species. Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them dripping in your stew at least. Teton On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" writes: > Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > But Im sure some did. > Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > rust > ans kill the scent as best as possible. > One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > ect > The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > made > at the time and were in high demand. > Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > {See Williamsburg Journals} > Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > dye.. > And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > trap > .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > made in volume. > > > On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > > WindWalker, > > > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > they did it historically? Just curious. > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 08 Jul 2002 23:17:13 -0400 grin... they didn't "buy" dye... walnut hulls make a good dye, tis what i use and plant can make a dye.. even indigo Animal fat would be no good as scent of animal is on it.. a severe no no. Any Trapper knows Human scent is a problem with trapping.. Mountain men in field didn't bathe.. and One would guess stink to high heaven Dyeing traps is a accepted practice way before MM era... I will state again No trapper worth his salt modern or old would allow his traps to be used to hang a corn boiler or pot... Anyone that camps primitive style knows how to hang pots with sticks... even another question... why hang them anyway? Reflector rock fires were and are common On 8 Jul 2002 at 19:39, Todd Glover wrote: > Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing > their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye > and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their > traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. > But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the > trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was > largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet > unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with > other species. > Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare > among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them > dripping in your stew at least. > > Teton > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" > writes: > > Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > > Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > > As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > > But Im sure some did. > > Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > > rust > > ans kill the scent as best as possible. > > One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > > Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > > ect > > The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > > made > > at the time and were in high demand. > > Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > > {See Williamsburg Journals} > > Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > > The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > > dye.. > > And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > > trap > > .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > > Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > > made in volume. > > > > > > On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > > > > WindWalker, > > > > > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > > about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > > common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > > they did it historically? Just curious. > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: MtMan-List: Miller Painting Date: 08 Jul 2002 21:55:29 -0700

Hi Guys,    Check this site out for a story about a long lost Miller Painting....
 
 
 It's better than winning the lottery......     Randy
 
--- Randal Bublitz
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
we are Borrowing it from our Children
 

---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking Date: 09 Jul 2002 06:26:46 -0600 (MDT) I've never seen any references of trap dying or waxing back in the era. Hand forged traps are naturally rust resistant by the finish imparted on them by the blacksmith. I own three originals and a modern reproduction and none of them seem to rust. What little they get I rub off with my hand. You do see references to extra springs being ordered as they broke. Scents on beaver traps is not an issue as the traps are set under water and no scent can be detected by any animal underwater. Dry land trapping for say fox, wolf etc is altogether a different story. But still I think animals back then did not have much fear of the smell of steel like they do now. They have become conditioned to fear the scent of steel or man. I can still catch red fox to this day with modern traps right out of the box and set with my bare hands. (I don't usally do it that way but it can be done) And of course some animals are attracted to the scent of man like camp raiding coons. I still love Rex's articles in ML magazine. He is a very smart man and a very talented artist. The trap cooking tripod is the only thing I've seen Rex write that I did not agree with. Keep up the great work Rex! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 08 Jul 2002 21:23:02 -0600 If the traps are placed under water, there is no human scent for them to = smell, provided they never learned how to sniff things under water. Don On Tuesday, August 26, 1941, Todd Glover wrote: >Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing >their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye >and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their >traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. >But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the >trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was >largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet >unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with >other species. >Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare >among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them >dripping in your stew at least. > >Teton > > >On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" >writes: >> Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. >> Also dying. it helps kill the scent. >> As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. >> But Im sure some did. >> Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the=20 >> rust >> ans kill the scent as best as possible. >> One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" >> Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls=20 >> ect >> The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being=20 >> made >> at the time and were in high demand. >> Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. >> {See Williamsburg Journals} >> Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. >> The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the=20 >> dye.. >> And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the=20 >> trap >> .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. >> Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being >> made in volume. >>=20 >>=20 >> On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: >>=20 >> > WindWalker, >> >=20 >> > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered=20 >> about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is=20 >> common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that=20 >> they did it historically? Just curious. >> >=20 >> > Teton >> >=20 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> >=20 >> > ---------------------- >> > hist_text list info:=20 >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info:=20 >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>=20 > > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 >http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking{ he thought] Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:06:46 -0400 I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time as a professional trapper. Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals. Rusty steel is not good. Makes no diffrence on if underwater, slide sets were highly popular in early days AS well as den sets. Did a hole in a mound and trap all out. Comon practice in early 1800 era. As well as guide sticks and rocks. The problem is to many of the article writers only have book reading and no practical experience. Nor a working knowledge of the animal they are seeking. One should NEVER take a article or camp talk as gospel.. do a Library of Congress search on "Dying Trap" and see what you come up with. I own several Newhouse 14,s original and 2 hand forged Bear traps. all bear evidence of earlier dye. as for new traps... I hope people don't try to set traps without boiling and dying Tis a chechako thing to do. Wait till the boys at NTA hear this thread {grin} On 9 Jul 2002 at 6:26, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > I've never seen any references of trap dying or waxing back in the > era. Hand forged traps are naturally rust resistant by the finish imparted > on them by the blacksmith. I own three originals and a modern reproduction > and none of them seem to rust. What little they get I rub off with my > hand. You do see references to extra springs being ordered as they broke. > Scents on beaver traps is not an issue as the traps are set under > water and no scent can be detected by any animal underwater. Dry land > trapping for say fox, wolf etc is altogether a different story. But still > I think animals back then did not have much fear of the smell of steel > like they do now. They have become conditioned to fear the scent of steel > or man. I can still catch red fox to this day with modern traps right out > of the box and set with my bare hands. (I don't usally do it that way but > it can be done) And of course some animals are attracted to the scent of > man like camp raiding coons. > I still love Rex's articles in ML magazine. He is a very smart man > and a very talented artist. The trap cooking tripod is the only thing I've > seen Rex write that I did not agree with. Keep up the great work Rex! > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:06:45 -0400 Have you taken much fur using this method? On 8 Jul 2002 at 21:23, Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > If the traps are placed under water, there is no human scent for them to smell, provided they never learned how to sniff things under water. Don > > On Tuesday, August 26, 1941, Todd Glover wrote: > >Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing > >their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye > >and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their > >traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. > >But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the > >trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was > >largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet > >unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with > >other species. > >Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare > >among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them > >dripping in your stew at least. > > > >Teton > > > > > >On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" > >writes: > >> Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > >> Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > >> As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > >> But Im sure some did. > >> Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > >> rust > >> ans kill the scent as best as possible. > >> One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > >> Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > >> ect > >> The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > >> made > >> at the time and were in high demand. > >> Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > >> {See Williamsburg Journals} > >> Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > >> The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > >> dye.. > >> And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > >> trap > >> .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > >> Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > >> made in volume. > >> > >> > >> On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > >> > >> > WindWalker, > >> > > >> > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > >> about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > >> common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > >> they did it historically? Just curious. > >> > > >> > Teton > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------------------- > >> > hist_text list info: > >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------- > >> hist_text list info: > >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >> > > > > > >"Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > >http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: > >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:10:12 EDT In a message dated 7/8/02 9:16:01 PM, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes: <> Where did you get this information??? Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:42:10 -0400 you are clipping out of context... See journal of Osborne Russell On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:10, SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/8/02 9:16:01 PM, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes: > > < heaven>> > > Where did you get this information??? > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking{ he thought] Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:40:31 EDT --part1_152.1087bb85.2a5c5def_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/2002 8:05:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes: > I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time > as a professional trapper. Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals. > This thread is interesting, but just telling us to read the HBC Journals provides no evidence. Where's the documentation and/or citations that traps were waxed and dyed? It seems to me that short of that, it's still speculation and falls into the "if they had it they'da used it" or "we know it works today so it musta worked then" theory. Barney --part1_152.1087bb85.2a5c5def_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/2002 8:05:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, windwalker@fastmail.fm writes:


I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time
as a professional trapper. Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals.


This thread is interesting, but just telling us to read the HBC Journals provides no evidence.  Where's the documentation and/or citations that traps were waxed and dyed?

It seems to me that short of that, it's still speculation and falls into the "if they had it they'da used it" or "we know it works today so it musta worked then" theory.

Barney  --part1_152.1087bb85.2a5c5def_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: MtMan-List: Traps for cooking, Traps for trapping. Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:12:20 -0500 It is surprising how little heat is needed to affect the temper of steel. Springs are typically tempered to a blue to purple oxide color or 500 to 600 degrees F. Dull red coals in a fire are at about 1,200 degrees F. >Mike wrote: >Plus, a cook fire shouldn't be that big as = to get hot enough to effect >the temper of the steel. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking{ he thought] Date: 09 Jul 2002 12:37:22 -0400 A phone call was made to the office to pull the info. and are to be faxed via email. It was done.... But i would also advise others to do some research also, not just sitting asking others to provide all for reading pleasure for the masses. On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:40, LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 7/9/2002 8:05:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > windwalker@fastmail.fm writes: > > > I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time > as a professional trapper. Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals. > > > This thread is interesting, but just telling us to read the HBC Journals provides no > evidence. Where's the documentation and/or citations that traps were waxed and > dyed? > > It seems to me that short of that, it's still speculation and falls into the "if they had > it they'da used it" or "we know it works today so it musta worked then" theory. > > Barney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 11:44:18 -0500 Windwalker, I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the Rocky Mountain West. John... At 10:17 PM 7/8/02, you wrote: >grin... they didn't "buy" dye... walnut hulls make a good dye, tis what i use >and plant can make a dye.. even indigo >Animal fat would be no good as scent of animal is on it.. a severe no no. >Any Trapper knows Human scent is a problem with trapping.. >Mountain men in field didn't bathe.. and One would guess stink to high heaven >Dyeing traps is a accepted practice way before MM era... >I will state again No trapper worth his salt modern or old would allow his >traps to be >used to hang a corn boiler or pot... >Anyone that camps primitive style knows how to hang pots with sticks... >even another question... why hang them anyway? Reflector rock fires were >and are >common > > > >On 8 Jul 2002 at 19:39, Todd Glover wrote: > > > Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing > > their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye > > and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their > > traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. > > But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the > > trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was > > largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet > > unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with > > other species. > > Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare > > among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them > > dripping in your stew at least. > > > > Teton > > > > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" > > writes: > > > Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > > > Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > > > As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > > > But Im sure some did. > > > Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > > > rust > > > ans kill the scent as best as possible. > > > One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > > > Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > > > ect > > > The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > > > made > > > at the time and were in high demand. > > > Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > > > {See Williamsburg Journals} > > > Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > > > The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > > > dye.. > > > And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > > > trap > > > .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > > > Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > > > made in volume. > > > > > > > > > On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > WindWalker, > > > > > > > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > > > about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > > > common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > > > they did it historically? Just curious. > > > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html John T. Kramer, maker of: Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: 816-252-9512 voice 816-252-9121 fax Kramer Products, Inc. POB 8715 Sugar Creek, MO 64054 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim J." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking{ he thought] Date: 09 Jul 2002 13:03:25 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > I can see many of you have way to much "book" reading and little time > as a professional trapper.... As living historians recreating the mountain men, book reading is all we can go by. Though I bow to your expertise today, it actually relates very little to trapping in the early 1800's, there are to many things that have changed. Trapping, hunting or fishing in a basically pristine area, as the western mountains were in 1820 is very differant than the same activities today. After several generations the animals learn to fear man and his activities, thus changing the way man has to go about harvesting game. > Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals. Of all the journals I have read I can recall absolutely no reference to the mountain men dyeing or waxing traps. Basic repairs to keep the traps functional were made and journals and parts lists from rendezvous support this. But again, no reference to wax/waxing or dye/dyeing anywhere *that I have found*. > Rusty steel is not good... I'll admit this is speculation on my part but, the mountain men seem to have overwhelmingly used water sets. They used there traps daily and when a beaver was taken they seem to have been reset immediately. When an area was trapped out they moved as quickly as they could to the next trapping area where the traps were set as soon as possible. Given this, natural rust resistance of hand forged metal and the relatively dry mountain air, how much would rust have been a factor? > The problem is to many of the article writers only have book reading > and no practical experience. Nor a working knowledge of the animal > they are seeking... When trying to figure out what the original mountain men did and how they did it I don't look for anybodies experiences (practical or otherwise) from today. IMHO, that has little to nothing to do with researching history. We strive to learn the *proper* ways of the originals but there is no way to actually recreate the circumstances and mindset of the early 1800's mountain man. > One should NEVER take a article or camp talk as gospel.. When I first came to this list I got that same advise from several wise list members (thank you Capt. L, Mr. James and others). I take nothing as gospel. I research anything I am interested in and base my decisions on that. Many times the great advise from list members bears the weight of research and proves correct or at least points me in the right direction. Their opinions are most often verifiable with source citations and references. This is just my humble opinion and not to be taken as gospel (BG). I don't think I've spoke so much in 20 years. Steeping down off soap box, I remain your most humble servant, Tim (Twoshot) Jewell p.s. finally got a legitimate camp name (grin) ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The last word on trap cooking{ he thought] Date: 09 Jul 2002 10:16:47 -0700 "...Traps were Dyied. read the Hudson Bay Journals..." Windwalker, I am not a trapper, although i have laid a few sets in my time, (and I'm not trying to be difficult either) but I have spent a fair bit of time poking around in the Hudson's Bay Co, archives, and saying "read the Hudson Bay Journals" is kind of like telling someone in New York to find a phone number by reading the Phone book without giving them a name. The Hudson Bay Co. literally has warehouses full of journals, ledgers etc. Even just considering published HBC documents, one could read for the rest of their life and still not find a specific reference. Like I said, I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm not claiming to know much "hands-on" trapping lore, but if I'm being asked to "read the Hudson Bay journals" I need a little more to go on. Watch yer top knot! Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 13:19:49 -0400 osage orange, persimmon, red oche On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:44, John Kramer wrote: > Windwalker, > > I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the > Rocky Mountain West. > > John... > > > At 10:17 PM 7/8/02, you wrote: > >grin... they didn't "buy" dye... walnut hulls make a good dye, tis what i use > >and plant can make a dye.. even indigo > >Animal fat would be no good as scent of animal is on it.. a severe no no. > >Any Trapper knows Human scent is a problem with trapping.. > >Mountain men in field didn't bathe.. and One would guess stink to high heaven > >Dyeing traps is a accepted practice way before MM era... > >I will state again No trapper worth his salt modern or old would allow his > >traps to be > >used to hang a corn boiler or pot... > >Anyone that camps primitive style knows how to hang pots with sticks... > >even another question... why hang them anyway? Reflector rock fires were > >and are > >common > > > > > > > >On 8 Jul 2002 at 19:39, Todd Glover wrote: > > > > > Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing > > > their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye > > > and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their > > > traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. > > > But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the > > > trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was > > > largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet > > > unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with > > > other species. > > > Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare > > > among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them > > > dripping in your stew at least. > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" > > > writes: > > > > Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > > > > Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > > > > As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > > > > But Im sure some did. > > > > Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > > > > rust > > > > ans kill the scent as best as possible. > > > > One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > > > > Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > > > > ect > > > > The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > > > > made > > > > at the time and were in high demand. > > > > Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > > > > {See Williamsburg Journals} > > > > Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > > > > The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > > > > dye.. > > > > And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > > > > trap > > > > .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > > > > Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > > > > made in volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > WindWalker, > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > > > > about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > > > > common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > > > > they did it historically? Just curious. > > > > > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > hist_text list info: > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > John T. Kramer, maker of: > > Kramer's Best Antique Improver > >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< > >>>As good as old!<<< > > > > mail to: > 816-252-9512 voice > 816-252-9121 fax > Kramer Products, Inc. > POB 8715 > Sugar Creek, MO 64054 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 12:50:55 -0600 Shucks, I normally would not jump into this discussion, but I couldn't resist stepping out of lurkdom and adding my two cents in on a discussion I don't know diddly about.... but to add fuel to the fire, there are lots of plants around the intermountain west to make dye out of...a trapper wouldn't have to go far to find some. pinecones, for instance, balsam root, camas, elderberry, any variety of oak, huckleberry, hops, wild rose, willow, and a bunch of others...a lot of these don't really require much to get the dye out, either. I think all of this little list occurred wild somewhere in the area. There are a lot more out there, too. Now I'll slink back into my more "womanly" researches on making things, and who was hooked up with whom, and let the fireworks continue. Sue Stone jandsstone@earthlink.net Windwalker wrote: > > osage orange, persimmon, red oche > > On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:44, John Kramer wrote: > > > Windwalker, > > > > I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the > > Rocky Mountain West. > > > > John... > > > > > > At 10:17 PM 7/8/02, you wrote: > > >grin... they didn't "buy" dye... walnut hulls make a good dye, tis what i use > > >and plant can make a dye.. even indigo > > >Animal fat would be no good as scent of animal is on it.. a severe no no. > > >Any Trapper knows Human scent is a problem with trapping.. > > >Mountain men in field didn't bathe.. and One would guess stink to high heaven > > >Dyeing traps is a accepted practice way before MM era... > > >I will state again No trapper worth his salt modern or old would allow his > > >traps to be > > >used to hang a corn boiler or pot... > > >Anyone that camps primitive style knows how to hang pots with sticks... > > >even another question... why hang them anyway? Reflector rock fires were > > >and are > > >common > > > > > > > > > > > >On 8 Jul 2002 at 19:39, Todd Glover wrote: > > > > > > > Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing > > > > their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye > > > > and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their > > > > traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. > > > > But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the > > > > trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was > > > > largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet > > > > unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with > > > > other species. > > > > Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare > > > > among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them > > > > dripping in your stew at least. > > > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" > > > > writes: > > > > > Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > > > > > Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > > > > > As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > > > > > But Im sure some did. > > > > > Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > > > > > rust > > > > > ans kill the scent as best as possible. > > > > > One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > > > > > Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > > > > > ect > > > > > The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > > > > > made > > > > > at the time and were in high demand. > > > > > Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > > > > > {See Williamsburg Journals} > > > > > Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > > > > > The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > > > > > dye.. > > > > > And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > > > > > trap > > > > > .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > > > > > Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > > > > > made in volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > WindWalker, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > > > > > about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > > > > > common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > > > > > they did it historically? Just curious. > > > > > > > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > hist_text list info: > > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > hist_text list info: > > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > > > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > John T. Kramer, maker of: > > > > Kramer's Best Antique Improver > > >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< > > >>>As good as old!<<< > > > > > > > > mail to: > > 816-252-9512 voice > > 816-252-9121 fax > > Kramer Products, Inc. > > POB 8715 > > Sugar Creek, MO 64054 > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 12:57:10 -0600 on 7/9/02 10:44 AM, John Kramer at kramer@kramerize.com wrote: > Windwalker, > > I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the > Rocky Mountain West. > > John... > > > At 10:17 PM 7/8/02, you wrote: >> grin... they didn't "buy" dye... walnut hulls make a good dye, tis what i use >> and plant can make a dye.. even indigo >> Animal fat would be no good as scent of animal is on it.. a severe no no. >> Any Trapper knows Human scent is a problem with trapping.. >> Mountain men in field didn't bathe.. and One would guess stink to high heaven >> Dyeing traps is a accepted practice way before MM era... >> I will state again No trapper worth his salt modern or old would allow his >> traps to be >> used to hang a corn boiler or pot... >> Anyone that camps primitive style knows how to hang pots with sticks... >> even another question... why hang them anyway? Reflector rock fires were >> and are >> common >> >> >> >> On 8 Jul 2002 at 19:39, Todd Glover wrote: >> >>> Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing >>> their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye >>> and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their >>> traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. >>> But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the >>> trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was >>> largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet >>> unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with >>> other species. >>> Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare >>> among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them >>> dripping in your stew at least. >>> >>> Teton >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" >>> writes: >>>> Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. >>>> Also dying. it helps kill the scent. >>>> As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. >>>> But Im sure some did. >>>> Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the >>>> rust >>>> ans kill the scent as best as possible. >>>> One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" >>>> Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls >>>> ect >>>> The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being >>>> made >>>> at the time and were in high demand. >>>> Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. >>>> {See Williamsburg Journals} >>>> Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. >>>> The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the >>>> dye.. >>>> And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the >>>> trap >>>> .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. >>>> Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being >>>> made in volume. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> WindWalker, >>>>> >>>>> I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered >>>> about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is >>>> common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that >>>> they did it historically? Just curious. >>>>> >>>>> Teton >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------- >>>>> hist_text list info: >>>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------- >>>> hist_text list info: >>>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 >>> http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > John T. Kramer, maker of: > > Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>> It makes wood wonderful<<< >>>> As good as old!<<< > > > > mail to: > 816-252-9512 voice > 816-252-9121 fax > Kramer Products, Inc. > POB 8715 > Sugar Creek, MO 64054 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Hello the camp, It must be a slow week, I read the article and took it with a grain of salt. Using a trap for cooking I would never do only because it would be cumbersom and there are manny ways that would work better (rope,thong,stick,chain). Every time you set the trap it gets wet and starts to rust, so who needs dye? The whole article and this discussion supposes that trapers from the period invented backpacking. Most trappers from the period were in parties with 2 to 3 animals per man and as I have mentioned in the past "the reason for lots of pack animals is to haul out there catch". Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 15:27:56 -0400 Bless your heart On 9 Jul 2002 at 12:50, James and Sue Stone wrote: > Shucks, I normally would not jump into this discussion, but I > couldn't resist stepping out of lurkdom and adding my two cents > in on a discussion I don't know diddly about.... but to add fuel > to the fire, there are lots of plants around the intermountain > west to make dye out of...a trapper wouldn't have to go far to > find some. > > pinecones, for instance, balsam root, camas, elderberry, any > variety of oak, huckleberry, hops, wild rose, willow, and a > bunch of others...a lot of these don't really require much to get > the dye out, either. I think all of this little list occurred > wild somewhere in the area. There are a lot more out there, too. > > Now I'll slink back into my more "womanly" researches on making > things, and who was hooked up with whom, and let the fireworks > continue. > > Sue Stone > jandsstone@earthlink.net > > Windwalker wrote: > > > > osage orange, persimmon, red oche > > > > On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:44, John Kramer wrote: > > > > > Windwalker, > > > > > > I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the > > > Rocky Mountain West. > > > > > > John... > > > > > > > > > At 10:17 PM 7/8/02, you wrote: > > > >grin... they didn't "buy" dye... walnut hulls make a good dye, tis what i use > > > >and plant can make a dye.. even indigo > > > >Animal fat would be no good as scent of animal is on it.. a severe no no. > > > >Any Trapper knows Human scent is a problem with trapping.. > > > >Mountain men in field didn't bathe.. and One would guess stink to high heaven > > > >Dyeing traps is a accepted practice way before MM era... > > > >I will state again No trapper worth his salt modern or old would allow his > > > >traps to be > > > >used to hang a corn boiler or pot... > > > >Anyone that camps primitive style knows how to hang pots with sticks... > > > >even another question... why hang them anyway? Reflector rock fires were > > > >and are > > > >common > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 8 Jul 2002 at 19:39, Todd Glover wrote: > > > > > > > > > Likewise, I have never read a reference to Mountaineers dyeing or waxing > > > > > their traps. If they did in any appreciable amount, one would expect dye > > > > > and wax to show up on trade lists. How then did they care for their > > > > > traps? Perhaps a logical option would be to grease them with animal fat. > > > > > But wouldn't this frighten the beaver away? Perhaps. I wonder if the > > > > > trapper wasn't so "adapted" to the environment, that his human smell was > > > > > largely camouflaged? Or perhaps the beaver of that time were as of yet > > > > > unafraid of the white human smell, I know there are accounts of this with > > > > > other species. > > > > > Anyway, I suspect the practice of dyeing and waxing traps was very rare > > > > > among the Rocky Mountain trappers. Wouldn't have to worry about them > > > > > dripping in your stew at least. > > > > > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 8 Jul 2002 20:25:29 -0400 "Windwalker" > > > > > writes: > > > > > > Cleaning rust from traps is a must before setting. > > > > > > Also dying. it helps kill the scent. > > > > > > As for waxing. I find no reference to MM having done so. > > > > > > But Im sure some did. > > > > > > Dying traps goes all the way back, as boing does to release the > > > > > > rust > > > > > > ans kill the scent as best as possible. > > > > > > One MUSt know it was not the mountain men "who invented the trap" > > > > > > Pre MM era traps were used in Northern Regions, as well as deadfalls > > > > > > ect > > > > > > The mountain man only cashed in on the trade.. As Hats were being > > > > > > made > > > > > > at the time and were in high demand. > > > > > > Back east traps were handmade items, and were used prior MM era. > > > > > > {See Williamsburg Journals} > > > > > > Pans and pivot pins do not function well with rust coating only. > > > > > > The whole practice was to light coat a trap with rust to hold the > > > > > > dye.. > > > > > > And not allow a heavy "cake" of rust to build, therefore ruining the > > > > > > trap > > > > > > .Waxing was a more in "Fort Practice" when wax was available. > > > > > > Wax sealed traps from rust for shipment, when the traps were being > > > > > > made in volume. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8 Jul 2002 at 23:18, tetontodd@juno.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > WindWalker, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like to touch on one point you mentioned. I have wondered > > > > > > about the Mountaineers dyeing and waxing their traps. I know it is > > > > > > common practice now-a-days, but what evidence have you come by that > > > > > > they did it historically? Just curious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Teton > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > > hist_text list info: > > > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > > hist_text list info: > > > > > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > > > > > http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > > > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > John T. Kramer, maker of: > > > > > > Kramer's Best Antique Improver > > > >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< > > > >>>As good as old!<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > mail to: > > > 816-252-9512 voice > > > 816-252-9121 fax > > > Kramer Products, Inc. > > > POB 8715 > > > Sugar Creek, MO 64054 > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 14:31:45 -0500 Windwalker, Hedge and persimmon are also not native to the Rocky Mountains, red ochre can be found in a few areas. Sue Stone has listed a number of native specie that could be used for dyeing. As you are certain the Rocky Mountaineers dyed and waxed their traps. What did they use? It is unlikely it would have been walnut, indigo, osage or persimmon. Red ochre is iron oxide so how is that much different than rust on a trap? John... At 12:19 PM 7/9/02, you wrote: >osage orange, persimmon, red oche > >On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:44, John Kramer wrote: > > > Windwalker, > > > > I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the > > Rocky Mountain West. > > > > John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 14:25:28 -0600 Osage Orange and persimmon are also not in the Rocky Mountain West. These are mid-west and eastern plants found in most areas that would have the walnut. Don't know what Red oche is? Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:19 AM > osage orange, persimmon, red oche > > On 9 Jul 2002 at 11:44, John Kramer wrote: > > > Windwalker, > > > > I am not familiar with any native walnut trees or indigo plants in the > > Rocky Mountain West. > > > > John... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 20:23:40 -0500 "Don't know what Red oche is?" Red ochre is the proper spelling. It is a pigment. Lanney From Webster Dictionary: red ochre: a red earthy hematite used as a pigment. hematite:a mineral constituting an important iron ore and occurring in crystals or red earthy form. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 09 Jul 2002 19:28:51 -0600 Thanks Lanney. I thought it was either ochre or someone trying to spell oak, since the topic was discussing plants for dye. Bead Shooter ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:23 PM > "Don't know what Red oche is?" > > Red ochre is the proper spelling. It is a pigment. > Lanney > > From Webster Dictionary: > red ochre: a red earthy hematite used as a pigment. > > hematite:a mineral constituting an important iron ore and occurring in > crystals or red earthy form. > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: A few more answers to some questions about beaver Date: 09 Jul 2002 19:36:59 -0600 (MDT) A few more answers to some of the questions. There are no references to dyeing or waxing traps in any mountain man journals that I have ever read and I've read a lot of them. No references, zip, zero, nada! You got one? Show the list. Mountainmen did not dye and certainly did not wax traps. Never seen it ever in print, ever. They bought traps, chains and spare springs. Trap setting tools were and are for big weaklings. One more thing to carry, they didn't use them unless they were lame or one armed. Windwalker I've never heard of a slider set being used in the Mountainman era. Slider sets take wire and long wire. Wrong era. Unless your refering to a slide set that runs down a long dead pole? Beaver traps are set under the water. Don't have to be died, don't have to be even covered. No animal will ever learn to smell scent under the water unless its a fish. This is why the prison escapees always headed for the creek when the bloodhounds are after them in the old movies. Some areas of the west and northwest do indeed have animals that have never seen a human and have not been conditioned to fear man. I have four handforged traps, three originals and one reproduction. They get rained on, set in rivers and sit outdoors days at a time. They do not rust. Whatever light surface rust collects on them can be rubbed off by hand. Mountainmen did not go lilly footing through the forest searching for just the right type and color of flower to dye their trap a perfect hue of lavender. They went searching through the woods for beaver and they killed them whenever they found them in anyway possible at all times of the year. And like I said before, if you think otherwise you are a dreamer! No trapper, period! Would ever set a trap over or near or even think about using a trap to hang a pot over a hot campfire. Ever! Unless he's a one armed lame beaver trapper who can't set it anyway. I know all the great trappers in Montana and not a one would ever do it. Never, ever. Whenever you set a trap for beaver you set and spring it 2 or 3 times to loosen up the jaws and that is only if its not been set or sprung for a few months. Ain't a beaver alive that can't be caught in a foothold trap especially a blind set. Ain't a beaver alive that knows what a snare is! I won't mention 330 conibear traps cause they are not period correct. Besides 330's are for beginner beaver trappers. That is a whole other discussion that does not belong on this web site. I have caught, snared, and shot hundreds if not a thousand beaver in my 25 years of trapping. All you need are several good footholds to catch a ton of beaver. You catch the first couple with blind sets or use willows for bait. After that you make your own "bate" using the recipe out of the L&C Journal.(it was recorded while at Clatsop) If you don't have traps the mountainmen hunted beaver. They shot them by the thousands! Beaver come out at dusk and can be hunted then and in the morning.(all night in a full moon) And they swam for a dead one if they had to. (we have laws to follow now unlike the MM, though some states still let you shoot beaver, check your local laws) And for you dreamers that actually think mountainmen trapped only when furs were prime and practiced conservation, like letting streams rest or skipping a stream for a year. Give me a break! While you're in your camp being the conservationist telling Yarns and baking cobblers in your Dutch ovens the next brigade are trapping the beaver. They started killing beaver right out of St. Louis. Then they had to go to western Missouri, soon they where in the Dakota's, then Montana, then to the west coast and the southwest. Why? Not to see more pretty scenery. Because the easily caught beaver were all dead and on top of some dandy's hat in Paris or London in the form of a felt top hat. They had to migrate around to find more beaver. In the process they discovered and mapped a nation. Until you have trapped 20-30 or more beaver and your hands are cracked and bleeding from the ice cold water and mud. And you have spent hours upon hours skinning and fleshing their hides until your back aches and your hands are caked in blood, you cannot understand what these men went through or begin to understand how tough and determined they were. If your weren't a trapper then, you catered to them. Beaver were the bottom line. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Windwalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A few more answers to some questions about beaver Date: 09 Jul 2002 22:43:07 -0400 hat was said in earlier posts? huh?? Im awaiting a fax on the documentation.. Im very well aware of trapping methods in all areas. as its been mostly my income for my adult life. One don't find reference to what they wiped their cans with after a dump, so by theory is safe to say they didn't cause no modern published books have refernece to it? Your thosands of beaver have no refernece to whats at hand.. nor my 50+yrs at the craft.. When faxed the document I want will only post it. Otherwise this ends it. Someone is beginning to sound like TOF and it aint me. And if ya aint seen a beaver slide...ya aint a trapper. finis On 9 Jul 2002 at 19:36, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > A few more answers to some of the questions. > There are no references to dyeing or waxing traps in any mountain man > journals that I have ever read and I've read a lot of them. No references, > zip, zero, nada! You got one? Show the list. Mountainmen did not dye and > certainly did not wax traps. Never seen it ever in print, ever. They > bought traps, chains and spare springs. Trap setting tools were and are > for big weaklings. One more thing to carry, they didn't use them unless > they were lame or one armed. Windwalker I've never heard of a slider set > being used in the Mountainman era. Slider sets take wire and long wire. > Wrong era. Unless your refering to a slide set that runs down a long dead > pole? > Beaver traps are set under the water. Don't have to be died, don't have > to be even covered. No animal will ever learn to smell scent under the > water unless its a fish. This is why the prison escapees always headed for > the creek when the bloodhounds are after them in the old movies. > Some areas of the west and northwest do indeed have animals that have > never seen a human and have not been conditioned to fear man. > I have four handforged traps, three originals and one reproduction. > They get rained on, set in rivers and sit outdoors days at a time. They do > not rust. Whatever light surface rust collects on them can be rubbed off > by hand. Mountainmen did not go lilly footing through the forest searching > for just the right type and color of flower to dye their trap a perfect > hue of lavender. They went searching through the woods for beaver and they > killed them whenever they found them in anyway possible at all times of > the year. And like I said before, if you think otherwise you are a dreamer! > No trapper, period! Would ever set a trap over or near or even think > about using a trap to hang a pot over a hot campfire. Ever! Unless he's a > one armed lame beaver trapper who can't set it anyway. I know all the > great trappers in Montana and not a one would ever do it. Never, ever. > Whenever you set a trap for beaver you set and spring it 2 or 3 times > to loosen up the jaws and that is only if its not been set or sprung for a > few months. Ain't a beaver alive that can't be caught in a foothold trap > especially a blind set. Ain't a beaver alive that knows what a snare is! I > won't mention 330 conibear traps cause they are not period correct. > Besides 330's are for beginner beaver trappers. That is a whole other > discussion that does not belong on this web site. > I have caught, snared, and shot hundreds if not a thousand beaver in > my 25 years of trapping. All you need are several good footholds to catch > a ton of beaver. You catch the first couple with blind sets or use willows > for bait. After that you make your own "bate" using the recipe out of the > L&C Journal.(it was recorded while at Clatsop) If you don't have traps the > mountainmen hunted beaver. They shot them by the thousands! Beaver come > out at dusk and can be hunted then and in the morning.(all night in a full > moon) And they swam for a dead one if they had to. (we have laws to follow > now unlike the MM, though some states still let you shoot beaver, check > your local laws) > And for you dreamers that actually think mountainmen trapped only when > furs were prime and practiced conservation, like letting streams rest or > skipping a stream for a year. Give me a break! While you're in your camp > being the conservationist telling Yarns and baking cobblers in your Dutch > ovens the next brigade are trapping the beaver. They started killing > beaver right out of St. Louis. Then they had to go to western Missouri, > soon they where in the Dakota's, then Montana, then to the west coast and > the southwest. Why? Not to see more pretty scenery. Because the easily > caught beaver were all dead and on top of some dandy's hat in Paris or > London in the form of a felt top hat. They had to migrate around to find > more beaver. In the process they discovered and mapped a nation. > Until you have trapped 20-30 or more beaver and your hands are cracked > and bleeding from the ice cold water and mud. And you have spent hours > upon hours skinning and fleshing their hides until your back aches and > your hands are caked in blood, you cannot understand what these men went > through or begin to understand how tough and determined they were. If your > weren't a trapper then, you catered to them. Beaver were the bottom line. > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Nothing really Date: 09 Jul 2002 22:48:15 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2279A.B6388740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable God, I hate flatlanders. D ]Ay! They come! They come! Wi' skirl o' pipe an' beat o' drum A' braw lads o' Scotia's blood Tho' far awa' frae bens an' muirs Tae follow the lad o' Cameron line Clasping Targe an' Claymore Wi' courage an' pride They battle as warriors o' auld A' yells makes blood run cauld Wild Highlanders! Wild Highlanders! Intae tha fray! Stand an' hold Scotia! Scotia Mo Chridhe! For ay! - Kathleen Calhoun=20 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2279A.B6388740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
God, I hate flatlanders.
 
D
]Ay! They come! They come!
Wi' skirl = o' pipe an'=20 beat o' drum
A' braw lads o' Scotia's blood
Tho' far awa' frae = bens an'=20 muirs
Tae follow the lad o' Cameron line
Clasping Targe an'=20 Claymore
Wi' courage an' pride
They battle as warriors o' = auld
A' yells=20 makes blood run cauld
Wild Highlanders! Wild Highlanders!
Intae = tha fray!=20 Stand an' hold
Scotia! Scotia Mo Chridhe! For ay!
 
- Kathleen Calhoun
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01C2279A.B6388740-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "traprjon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A few more answers to some questions about beaver Date: 10 Jul 2002 00:22:34 -0400 BeaverBoy, Most of what you say is true. However, the delivery could be a little less offensive to those less knowledgeable than yourself. > ""I have caught, snared, and shot hundreds if not a thousand beaver in > my 25 years of trapping. All you need are several good footholds to catch > a ton of beaver."" Sounds like you have many good years of experience. I have been a trapper for almost as long and have quit jobs (in the past) to go trappin when critters were worth cash money. In years when they weren't (more often than not), I trapped anyway (still do) because of a love of nature, critters and the sport. I have been a Trapper Education Instructor in NH for 6 or 8 years and more importantly have trapped 150 to 200 plus beavers per season, for years, with foothold traps. That's including skinning, fleshing and stretching them!!! I learned to beaver trap through the ice, many times having to "spud" through 30" plus thick ice in 0 degree and less temperatures to check traps, something I don't believe many if any mountain man ever did. I have trapped hundreds of beaver in all seasons with foot hold traps and have some skill and knowledge of it. So I guess that entitles me to my say here too. > ""Until you have trapped 20-30 or more beaver and your hands are cracked > and bleeding from the ice cold water and mud. And you have spent hours > upon hours skinning and fleshing their hides until your back aches and > your hands are caked in blood, you cannot understand what these men went > through or begin to understand how tough and determined they were."" Been there, done that, as have you. As you pointed out though, a lot of trappin was done in the more mild seasons because beaver used for felting don't need to be prime and ice was a problem. > ""I won't mention 330 conibear traps cause they are not period correct. > Besides 330's are for beginner beaver trappers. That is a whole other > discussion that does not belong on this web site."" I use mostly 330's for beaver today for a variety of reasons and I'm hardly a beginner. If the 330 discussion doesn't belong on this list, neither does your comment regarding them. > ""Trap setting tools were and are > for big weaklings. One more thing to carry, > they didn't use them unless they were lame or one armed."" I use a 330 setting tool on the trap line for safety reasons these days and consider the extra weight worth it. I am still able to set 330's, 220's and number 5 Bridger double long spring traps by hand. I know good trappers in their 60's that have arthritis who can't set some of these traps by hand anymore. However, they are still good trappers. I have 2 reasons for this post. First, there is no good reason to insult anyone as you have in especially the last two statements I referenced from your post. Secondly, you are obviously a very experienced trapper who has paid his "dues". Correct me if I'm wrong (Mr Rudy), this list is a place for less experienced people to be able to get some knowledge through discussion with people such as yourself, BeaverBoy, who have experience at a particular skill or trade. That purpose is best accomplished by people being respectful of and to others. Those that don't have your vast experience may well say something or express an opinion that you consider "stupid", when in fact they weren't born with the knowledge any more than you or I were. I would much rather read an intelligent and non-offensive post about anything, than to read a post wherein it looks like everyone with a particular skill (like trappin) appears to be arrogant and belittling to those who don't know or even to those of us that do!!! That's how my stick floats. To the list: I apologize for my lack of restraint in my response to BeaverBoy. I hope I didn't do what I just asked others not to do. YMHS John Enos traprjon@attbi.com ***************************************************************** "We The People, are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." -- Abraham Lincoln **************************************************************** "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere, restrains evil interference. They deserve a place of honor with all that is good." --George Washington *************************************************************** ----- Aux Aliments de Pays!!! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Crass Commercial Spam Date: 10 Jul 2002 08:17:59 -0400 Folks, Got a few more knives up on the site! http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Christmas is coming. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: manbear Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Nothing really Date: 10 Jul 2002 10:02:13 -0400 --------------D004C1F92C2F09BB702C127C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aye Lad, I'll drink tae tha' wi' and dram o' gud Single Malt. Slainte Manbear Double Edge Forge wrote: > God, I hate flatlanders. D]Ay! They come! They come! > Wi' skirl o' pipe an' beat o' drum > A' braw lads o' Scotia's blood > Tho' far awa' frae bens an' muirs > Tae follow the lad o' Cameron line > Clasping Targe an' Claymore > Wi' courage an' pride > They battle as warriors o' auld > A' yells makes blood run cauld > Wild Highlanders! Wild Highlanders! > Intae tha fray! Stand an' hold > Scotia! Scotia Mo Chridhe! For ay! - Kathleen Calhoun --------------D004C1F92C2F09BB702C127C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aye Lad,
I'll drink tae tha' wi' and dram o' gud Single Malt.
Slainte
Manbear

Double Edge Forge wrote:

 God, I hate flatlanders. D]Ay! They come! They come!
Wi' skirl o' pipe an' beat o' drum
A' braw lads o' Scotia's blood
Tho' far awa' frae bens an' muirs
Tae follow the lad o' Cameron line
Clasping Targe an' Claymore
Wi' courage an' pride
They battle as warriors o' auld
A' yells makes blood run cauld
Wild Highlanders! Wild Highlanders!
Intae tha fray! Stand an' hold
Scotia! Scotia Mo Chridhe! For ay! - Kathleen Calhoun  
--------------D004C1F92C2F09BB702C127C-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "WindWalker" Date: 10 Jul 2002 18:47:33 -0400 --=====_10263412535436=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --=====_10263412535436=_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" --=====_10263412535436=_-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: No Subject Date: 10 Jul 2002 22:16:36 EDT No Subject No Text Great Message for wasting time. Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 06:59:20 -0600 (MDT) Dear List and Traprjon, I'm very sorry if I offended any lame, one-armed beaver trappers. I am now taking a mountainman sensitivity class. In the future we should refer to them as Mountainperson's as not to offend anyone. I don't think I used the word "stupid" in any of my post and never would. At least I'm not just trying to sell stuff on the list, you have to give some credit for that. Seriously, in the future I will be more polite and less of an arrogant smart aleck. They're just my opinions and I'm sticking to them. And thats the way my stick floats. Sincerely, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Booming Sands?! Date: 11 Jul 2002 07:14:23 -0600 (MDT) On July 4th 1805 Meriweather Lewis wrote: " since our arrival at the falls (Great falls of the Missouri) we have repeatedly witnessed a nois............as loud and resembling precisely the discharge of a piece of ordinance of 6 pounds at the distance of 3 miles.......this, being sometime heard only once and at other times, six or seven discharges in quick succession. it is heard also at different seasons of the day and night. I am at a loss to account for this phenomenon." This is the last great mystery of the Corps of Discovery. I have solved the mystery but was wondering what other people on the list think the cause was. I've heard just about everything so far but my explaination is the only one that works. And I have proof. John Colter was ,by the way, the first American Mountainperson. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 10:57:24 EDT --part1_dc.19c0e7b9.2a5ef6d4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are we not supposed to sell on this list? Frank Odessa,Texas --part1_dc.19c0e7b9.2a5ef6d4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are we not supposed to sell on this list?

Frank
Odessa,Texas --part1_dc.19c0e7b9.2a5ef6d4_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 10:03:25 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01C228C2.327CC780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Certainly, Frank, we continue to be interested in quality items, = however, nothing from lame one-armed trappers is acceptable. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:57 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Are we not supposed to sell on this list? Frank Odessa,Texas=20 ------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01C228C2.327CC780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Certainly, Frank,  we continue to be = interested=20 in quality items, however, nothing from lame one-armed trappers is=20 acceptable.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 = 9:57=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was = out of=20 line

Are we not supposed to sell on this=20 list?

Frank
Odessa,Texas =
------=_NextPart_000_00DB_01C228C2.327CC780-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 11:03:34 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C228CA.99BE8520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Are we not supposed to sell on this list?" Sure you can, Frank, at least Dean hasn't tossed me lo these many years, = even though there have been those that would dearly love him to.. You make some damned fine canteens! Had mine, what, three yrs now and = nary a leak... and I don't baby stuff... Speaking of selling on the list.... Check the site this evening. There = should be another sticker ot two on there!!!! Dennis Miles AMM 1622 Hiv. "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:57 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Are we not supposed to sell on this list? Frank Odessa,Texas=20 ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C228CA.99BE8520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Are we not supposed to sell on this=20 list?"
 
Sure you can, Frank, at least Dean = hasn't tossed me=20 lo these many years, even though there have been those that would dearly = love=20 him to..
You make some damned fine canteens! Had = mine, what,=20 three yrs now and nary a leak... and I don't baby stuff...
Speaking of selling on the list.... = Check the site=20 this evening. There should be another sticker ot two on=20 there!!!!<BG>
 
Dennis Miles
AMM 1622 Hiv.
 
   "Abair ach beagan is abair = gu math=20 e"
            = DOUBLE=20 EDGE FORGE
       Knives and Iron=20 Accouterments
      http://www.bright.net/~deforge1<= /A>
 
   "Knowing how is just the=20 beginning."
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 = 10:57=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was = out of=20 line

Are we not supposed to sell on this=20 list?

Frank
Odessa,Texas = ------=_NextPart_000_005D_01C228CA.99BE8520-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 09:46:21 -0700 Thanks Jones, Crap - so much for what I was going to sell. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:03:25 Paul Jones wrote: >Certainly, Frank, we continue to be interested in quality items, however, nothing from lame one-armed trappers is acceptable. _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 12:59:33 -0500 Concho, No, no, sell to us, please! The "nothing from lame one-armed trappers" was taken from a selfless post from our resident trapping guru and general all round wonderexpert, and not intended to reference any honorable person, living or otherwise, fully-limbed or whatever. So relax and pull out your medicine wagon of neat goods. Pablo ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:46 AM > Thanks Jones, > > Crap - so much for what I was going to sell. > > Concho [HRD] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Historical Research & Development > "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:03:25 > Paul Jones wrote: > >Certainly, Frank, we continue to be interested in quality items, however, nothing from lame one-armed trappers is acceptable. > > > > _____________________________________________________ > Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads > and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. > http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 17:57:30 -0500 Beaverboy, JEEZ, nice polite, sensitive, mountaineers? The world has truly turned to lukewarm pig poop. Come on piss somebody off, its traditional. John... At 07:59 AM 7/11/02, you wrote: >Dear List and Traprjon, > I'm very sorry if I offended any lame, one-armed beaver trappers. I am >now taking a mountainman sensitivity class. In the future we should refer >to them as Mountainperson's as not to offend anyone. I don't think I used >the word "stupid" in any of my post and never would. At least I'm not just >trying to sell stuff on the list, you have to give some credit for that. > Seriously, in the future I will be more polite and less of an arrogant >smart aleck. > They're just my opinions and I'm sticking to them. And thats the way >my stick floats. > Sincerely, > Beaverboy "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." Napoleon Bonaparte. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Booming What? Date: 11 Jul 2002 19:42:30 -0400 Beaverboy, Does this explanation also work? "Mount Hood is also one of the major volcanoes of the Cascade Range, having erupted repeatedly for hundreds of thousands of years, most recently during two episodes in the past 1,500 years. The last episode ended shortly before the arrival of Lewis and Clark in 1805." Volcano Hazards in the Mount Hood Region, Oregon -- W. E. Scott, T. C. Pierson, S. P. Schilling, J. E. Costa, C. A. Gardner, J. W. Vallance, and J. J. Major, 1997, Volcano Hazards in the Mount Hood Region, Oregon: USGS Open-File Report 97-89 Don't know if the sound would travel that far (500 miles). Or was it just members of the Corps off in the brush "doing their business" and firing off a round or 2 to chase off bear? Colter first? Early perhaps, but first? Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:14 AM > On July 4th 1805 Meriweather Lewis wrote: > " since our arrival at the falls (Great falls of the Missouri) we have > repeatedly witnessed a nois............as loud and resembling precisely > the discharge of a piece of ordinance of 6 pounds at the distance of 3 > miles.......this, being sometime heard only once and at other times, six > or seven discharges in quick succession. it is heard also at different > seasons of the day and night. I am at a loss to account for this > phenomenon." > This is the last great mystery of the Corps of Discovery. I have > solved the mystery but was wondering what other people on the list think > the cause was. I've heard just about everything so far but my explaination > is the only one that works. And I have proof. > John Colter was ,by the way, the first American Mountainperson. > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Booming Volcanoes? Date: 11 Jul 2002 19:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Dear Tom and List, Colter was the first American to come back for the sole purpose to trap beaver wasn't he?(he never actually left, he turned around at the Mandan villages after being honorably discharged) I mean the first American truly near the mountains. There were many white people in the midwest at that time but I don't think many of them made it past the confluence of the Yellowstone and the Missouri prior to 1804. The French named the Yellowstone as everyone knows but even the french never made it west of the Bighorns prior to 1804. (at least its not recorded, is it?) So I would think that John Colter (MY HERO!) was the first American Mountainman (yes! I said Mountain MAN not person and it felt great!) Booming Sand is said to be sand dunes that suddenly shift and create a booming sound? Yeah, I know, not too likely. Volcanoes? No. It occurred much too often and there are no active volcanoes anywhere in earshot of the Great Falls. But thank you for your input. As I said, I discovered the cause of this mysterious noise while beaver trapping 3 miles from the Great Falls. This is the greatest discovery of the epic voyage since Clarks name was found on Pompey's Pillar. I will disclose the answer after I get some feedback from the list. I've already discussed my discovery with 3 L&C scholars including Gary Moultan and all were quite amazed with this huge find. The mystery is over! Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 20:41:59 -0700 Come on piss somebody off, its traditional. John... >>John, I don't know about you, but I'm headin for the medicine cabinet. There's gotta be some Pepto there. The crap on here lately leaves a taste in my mouth that reminds me of a VERY BAD Mexican Restaurant ! Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JW Stephens Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Booming Volcanoes? Date: 11 Jul 2002 18:52:55 -0700 Beaverboy ... my hero! (don't break arm patting self on back) beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > > The mystery is > over! > Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 21:06:19 -0700 Beaver Boy, I normally don't respond to anyone who doesn't have the common courtesy to sign their posts with their own name, but in your case I'm going to make an exception. For your information, using a trap and chain to hang a pot over the fire on a tripod would have absolutely no effect on the springs. Unless of course the trapper was fool enough to build a fire large enough to burn the tripod down and only then if the trap laid in the fire for an extended length of time. Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto ! ! ! ! ! ! If you don't mind, figure out the difference between Shit and Shineola, then share your knowledge with us. Pendleton #1572 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Booming Volcanoes? Date: 11 Jul 2002 20:03:02 -0600 (MDT) > Beaverboy ... my hero! (don't break arm patting self on back) > What did I do now? There's just no pleasing this crowd. Beaverboy > beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >> >> The mystery is >> over! >> Beaverboy > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 21:05:04 -0500 Larry, Please be nice. Otherwise he will not share his discovery, and we shall remain, together with all of the L&C experts, forever in the dark? Pablo ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:06 PM > Beaver Boy, > I normally don't respond to anyone who doesn't have the common courtesy to > sign their posts with their own name, but in your case I'm going to make an > exception. > For your information, using a trap and chain to hang a pot over the fire > on a tripod would have absolutely no effect on the springs. Unless of > course the trapper was fool enough to build a fire large enough to burn the > tripod down and only then if the trap laid in the fire for an extended > length of time. Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto ! ! ! ! ! > ! > If you don't mind, figure out the difference between Shit and Shineola, > then share your knowledge with us. > Pendleton #1572 > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Booming Volcanoes? Date: 11 Jul 2002 19:14:14 -0700 I'll jump in to keep the conversation going. My guess, not too consistent with some of the clues, is that a whirlpool or repeating wave formation associated with the falls occasionally collapses with a loud whop. I occasionally hear remarkable "explosions" from a nearby beach when a well-formed wave smacks down all at once. However I doubt that this would produce a solid enough report to sound like a "6-lb cannon at 3 miles". My other guess is some kind of balanced rock crashing back and forth occasionally, or some kind of blowhole that traps air that somehow releases explosively, but I doubt if such a critically tuned formation would last long enough to be observed today. The last wild guess is a geyserlike event, but I don't know if there are thermal vents nearby. An interesting mystery. Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:22 PM Dear Tom and List, Colter was the first American to come back for the sole purpose to trap beaver wasn't he?(he never actually left, he turned around at the Mandan villages after being honorably discharged) I mean the first American truly near the mountains. There were many white people in the midwest at that time but I don't think many of them made it past the confluence of the Yellowstone and the Missouri prior to 1804. The French named the Yellowstone as everyone knows but even the french never made it west of the Bighorns prior to 1804. (at least its not recorded, is it?) So I would think that John Colter (MY HERO!) was the first American Mountainman (yes! I said Mountain MAN not person and it felt great!) Booming Sand is said to be sand dunes that suddenly shift and create a booming sound? Yeah, I know, not too likely. Volcanoes? No. It occurred much too often and there are no active volcanoes anywhere in earshot of the Great Falls. But thank you for your input. As I said, I discovered the cause of this mysterious noise while beaver trapping 3 miles from the Great Falls. This is the greatest discovery of the epic voyage since Clarks name was found on Pompey's Pillar. I will disclose the answer after I get some feedback from the list. I've already discussed my discovery with 3 L&C scholars including Gary Moultan and all were quite amazed with this huge find. The mystery is over! Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: From: Date: 11 Jul 2002 20:36:48 -0600 (MDT) This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: hist__text@xmission.com unknown local-part "hist__text" in domain "xmission.com" ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ Return-path: Received: from [198.60.22.203] (helo=mgr3.xmission.com) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17SqCo-0003pT-00 for hist__text@xmission.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:30:50 -0600 Received: from mail by mgr3.xmission.com with spam-scanned (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SqCo-0005mF-00 for hist__text@xmission.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:30:50 -0600 Received: from [208.35.255.3] (helo=teton.sofast.net) by mgr3.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SqCo-0005m4-00 for hist__text@xmission.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:30:50 -0600 Received: (qmail 1844 invoked by uid 0); 12 Jul 2002 02:30:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO sofast.net) (127.0.0.1) by 0 (127.0.0.1) with SMTP; 12 Jul 2002 02:30:49 -0000 Received: from 67.250.107.120 (SquirrelMail authenticated user beaverboy@sofast.net) by webmail.sofast.net with HTTP; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3138.67.250.107.120.1026441049.squirrel@webmail.sofast.net> X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.5) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dear Larry, Thank you for your input on the Great Trap Cooking contraversy! In Gerstell's outstanding book "The Steel Trap in North America" (In my now humbled opinion, the greatest book written on the steel trap) on page 122 under the paragraph titled "Odd uses for traps and trap chains" he list ALL known uses of traps used during the era. Including three written records of trap chains (while still attached to the traps) as being used to bind prisoners including two indians who were accused of killing Hugh Glass. Cooking was not listed, though possible I suppose, as anything is possible. I just said that no real trapper would ever put his trap anywhere near a fire, why take a chance. But again that is just my humbled opinion. This is an excellent book on the subject. It also gives many accounts (documented) of trappers trapping beaver in the summer time and late spring, early fall and others times not ever considered prime fur time. The book can be puchased from F-F-G at (614)231-9585 for $64.95. I do not make a dime off of this sale. Every list member should own and read this great book if you don't own it already. Sincerely, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Booming water? Well, almost. Date: 11 Jul 2002 20:47:27 -0600 (MDT) Dear Pat, Excellent assumption! Did you read the full account by Lewis? He assummed it was caused by water as well. Unfortunately its not the correct answer.(based on my discovery) Thank you for your input. Any more guesses or thoeries? Remember folks its under July 4th, 1805 of the L&C Journals. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 22:50:54 -0400 Larry, Was wondering the same about chain. I hang my pot from some type of cordage or branch without so much as a scorch. Of course there's no value lost, other than a meal perhaps, if it were to fall. Not sure I would use something of value like a trap & chain, unless that were no rocks or sticks about, but I think you're right that the effect would be nil as long as it was kept away from the coals. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 12:06 AM > Beaver Boy, > ........................using a trap and chain to hang a pot over the fire > on a tripod would have absolutely no effect on the springs. Unless of > course the trapper was fool enough to build a fire large enough to burn the > tripod down and only then if the trap laid in the fire for an extended > length of time. Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto ! ! ! ! ! > Pendleton #1572 > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Roberts" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Booming water? Well, almost. Date: 11 Jul 2002 23:32:44 -0400 Unfortunately all I have is DeVoto who skips 7/4/05. Assuming the condition is not caused by man, we've ruled out geothermal and hydraulic, you say you found it while trapping (didn't say whether upstream or downstream) but that may or may not mean it is associated with water. Seems the "whump" of a six pounder, even at distance, as felt as much as heard, so I'm inclined to consider thunder. I'm stumped. Tom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 10:47 PM > Dear Pat, > Excellent assumption! Did you read the full account by Lewis? He > assummed it was caused by water as well. Unfortunately its not the correct > answer.(based on my discovery) Thank you for your input. Any more guesses > or thoeries? Remember folks its under July 4th, 1805 of the L&C Journals. > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat Date: 11 Jul 2002 22:32:31 -0500 All you folks who are experiencing the terrible heat out West please be careful. If you aren't used to such heat you should always be aware that it can kill you as quickly as anything in the drugstore. Stay out of the heat if possible but if you can't , you should dress right, drink lots of cool water, take breaks....be smart. If you are in the heat and suddenly STOP sweating, seek help immediately 'cause a heat stroke could be imminent. We are more used to such heat here in Texas (and in other hot areas around the country) and people keel over dead from the heat even here, so those who are not used to it should be very careful Not So Hot in Texas Lanney Ratcliff ps: Another thing you should be careful about is that your trap springs don't get too hot and lose their temper. There is plenty of temper being lost these days as it is and we should take care that the lose of temper doesn't become epidemic. pps: sorry. just couldn't help myself with the ps: The rest of the post is serious. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "JIM BRYAN" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 11 Jul 2002 22:42:22 -0500 ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2292C.389D7BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a ball and chain, but since it is connected to my leg and the Nort= h Dallas Water Moccasin has the only key, I cannot hang it over the fire = to cook with. Absalom ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:12 PM Larry, Please be nice. Otherwise he will not share his discovery, and we shall remain, together with all of the L&C experts, forever in the dark? Pablo ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:06 PM > Beaver Boy, > I normally don't respond to anyone who doesn't have the common courte= sy to > sign their posts with their own name, but in your case I'm going to mak= e an > exception. > For your information, using a trap and chain to hang a pot over the f= ire > on a tripod would have absolutely no effect on the springs. Unless of > course the trapper was fool enough to build a fire large enough to burn the > tripod down and only then if the trap laid in the fire for an extended > length of time. Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto ! ! != ! ! > ! > If you don't mind, figure out the difference between Shit and Shineol= a, > then share your knowledge with us. > Pendleton #1572 > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2292C.389D7BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a ball = and chain, but since it is connected to my leg and the North Dallas Water= Moccasin has the only key, I cannot hang it over the fire to cook with.<= /DIV>
 
Absalom
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Jones
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:12 PM
=
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I wa= s out of line
 
Larry,

Please be nice.  = Otherwise he will not share his discovery, and we shall
remain, togeth= er with all of the L&C experts, forever in the dark?

Pablo
=

----- Original Message -----
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@= airmail.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Thur= sday, July 11, 2002 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of lin= e


> Beaver Boy,
>   I normally don't respon= d to anyone who doesn't have the common courtesy
to
> sign their= posts with their own name, but in your case I'm going to make
an
&= gt; exception.
>   For your information, using a trap and= chain to hang a pot over the fire
> on a tripod would have absolut= ely no effect on the springs.  Unless of
> course the trapper = was fool enough to build a fire large enough to burn
the
> tripo= d down and only then if the trap laid in the fire for an extended
>= length of time.  Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto != ! ! !
!
> !
>   If you don't mind, figure out t= he difference between Shit and Shineola,
> then share your knowledg= e with us.
> Pendleton  #1572
>
>
>
> = ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.c= om/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>


----------------------hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html=
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2292C.389D7BE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Booming Sands?! Date: 12 Jul 2002 00:04:12 EDT In a message dated 7/11/02 6:15:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: > John Colter was ,by the way, the first American Mountainperson. > Beaverboy Well, let's talk about this a bit. First, do you mean "Rocky Mountain" person? And then, do you include the entire chain of Rockies or only the area that might be considered as the "rendezvous region" (my term)? If "mountainperson" refers to someone who headed into any region of the Rocky Mountains, prior to 1840, with the discernible purpose of gathering furs, whether by trade or trap, and "American" refers to someone from the United States, then you have to conisder James Pursley (sometimes referred to as Purcell). He was in South Park in the spring of 1803. (See article "In Search of the First American Mountain Man" in Vol. 2, Issue 1, winter 1999, "The Trapline" published by the Fur Trade Research Center, Quincy, CA.) Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat Date: 11 Jul 2002 21:41:11 -0700 Lanney, and other friends, Rest assured that the 'Western Heat Wave" is caused by "SUMMER"....we are quite used to it, as it happens every year.....the news media will jump on any thing for a story, including summer heat..... jeeeez... buy an ice cream, wait for fall, and all will be well....Thanks for your concern.... Love ya brother....Randy > [Original Message] > From: Lanney Ratcliff > To: History List > Date: 7/11/02 8:32:31 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat > > All you folks who are experiencing the terrible heat out West please be > careful. If you aren't used to such heat you should always be aware that it > can kill you as quickly as anything in the drugstore. Stay out of the heat > if possible but if you can't , you should dress right, drink lots of cool > water, take breaks....be smart. If you are in the heat and suddenly STOP > sweating, seek help immediately 'cause a heat stroke could be imminent. We > are more used to such heat here in Texas (and in other hot areas around the > country) and people keel over dead from the heat even here, so those who > are not used to it should be very careful > Not So Hot in Texas > Lanney Ratcliff > ps: Another thing you should be careful about is that your trap springs > don't get too hot and lose their temper. > There is plenty of temper being lost these days as it is and we should take > care that the lose of temper doesn't become epidemic. > pps: sorry. just couldn't help myself with the ps: The rest of the post > is serious. > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 12 Jul 2002 04:42:10 -0700 Please be nice. Otherwise he will not share his discovery, and we shall remain, together with all of the L&C experts, forever in the dark? Pablo >>Gee Uncle Pablo, I don't wanna be nice ! I wonder what Eddie Haskell is doing after school ? Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 12 Jul 2002 04:44:04 -0700 We cha ah yeh - E ne che key pee sh'nee yell o ! ! ! ! See Ya Beav ! Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat Date: 12 Jul 2002 06:00:46 -0500 Randy Yeah, a lot of California gets pretty hot and you folks know how to deal with it. I really meant my post for the folks in Boise (at 108) and Reno (with it's 106) and other areas that are commonly relatively cool all summer but who are racking up 100+ temps. Lots of new records in some areas....some MUCH higher than the old record. On the other hand, we are cruising along in the low 90's......88 forecast for today......which is considerably below our normal temps. The dang humidity is still high but otherwise we are practically suffering from a cold snap. Have a Klondike Bar and send me the bill. Lanney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Booming water? Well, almost. Date: 12 Jul 2002 05:20:33 -0600 on 7/11/02 8:47 PM, beaverboy@sofast.net at beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > Dear Pat, > Excellent assumption! Did you read the full account by Lewis? He > assummed it was caused by water as well. Unfortunately its not the correct > answer.(based on my discovery) Thank you for your input. Any more guesses > or thoeries? Remember folks its under July 4th, 1805 of the L&C Journals. > Beaverboy > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Beaverboy, big rocks! Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat Date: 12 Jul 2002 05:28:47 -0600 on 7/12/02 5:00 AM, Lanney Ratcliff at lanneyratcliff@charter.net wrote: > Randy > Yeah, a lot of California gets pretty hot and you folks know how to deal > with it. I really meant my post for the folks in Boise (at 108) and Reno > (with it's 106) and other areas that are commonly relatively cool all summer > but who are racking up 100+ temps. Lots of new records in some > areas....some MUCH higher than the old record. On the other hand, we are > cruising along in the low 90's......88 forecast for today......which is > considerably below our normal temps. The dang humidity is still high but > otherwise we are practically suffering from a cold snap. > Have a Klondike Bar and send me the bill. > Lanney > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Lanney, Sounds nice we are suppose to hit 105 in Salt Lake today. Way to hot. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: July 4,1805 Date: 12 Jul 2002 06:39:06 -0500 Click here. http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/archive/idx_jou.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Northern Heat Date: 12 Jul 2002 06:32:17 -0600 (MDT) List, It is suppose to be 100 degrees here today. Will be a new record for North Central Montana if it reaches it. Pretty hot considering we're at 3000' feet elevation and only 100 miles south of the Canadian border. Its still better than the -35 below we get for awhile every winter. I get to work in it too, like a lot of other guys. Fun. I was in Death Valley, California two weeks ago, now that was hot! 115 degrees and 124 ground surface temperature. 92 degrees was the low. I hear its been 124 or 127 there lately! You should all drive through Death Valley its incredible. California is an incredibly diverse state. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: July 4,1805 Date: 12 Jul 2002 07:59:41 -0500 Brother Lanney, Thanks for that site. It's a good one!! Hope you haven't been flooded out like the Boy in San Antonio. Your Brother and Friend. John The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 6:39 AM > Click here. > > http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/archive/idx_jou.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: Heat wave out west Date: 12 Jul 2002 06:44:02 -0700 (PDT) Lanney, even here at 6800 ft in Extreme North Texas it will reach the mid-90's for the next few days. That is indeed hot for us, usually doesn't happen here til August. Thanks for your concern, pack plenty of water, and wear a BIG hat. Think I'll head for the high country! Dog __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Heat wave out west Date: 12 Jul 2002 10:18:12 EDT --part1_ad.200ae585.2a603f24_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's Global Warming caused by our auto exhaust and spent gun powder and we're all gonna die. On a brighter note, the same scientist telling us global warming is gonna kill us all told us 30 years ago we were heading into an Ice Age and we're all gonna die. So by driving our cars and shooting our guns have saved ourselves? I'm so confused. Longshot --part1_ad.200ae585.2a603f24_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's Global Warming caused by our auto exhaust and spent gun powder and we're all gonna die.  On a brighter note, the same scientist telling us global warming is gonna kill us all told us 30 years ago we were heading into an Ice Age and we're all gonna die. So by driving our cars and shooting our guns have saved ourselves?  I'm so confused.

Longshot --part1_ad.200ae585.2a603f24_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat vs. Fla. Heat..OK...I have a pool Date: 12 Jul 2002 10:57:51 -0400 Hey you all, we people in Florida have had to put up with this heat and humidity for a long time and most of the year. What I would give for a good snow storm. And can we get off the traps and get into another fight on another subject on some distant planet in the Galaxy??? How about going back to blankets or points or who made what gun and caliber or who makes the best JUG????? I know, how about letting some of us know, who could not get out and play this summer, what was your best experience at an encampment you went too. I know, the summer ain't over yet. Now come up to the front of the room, stand erect and speak in a strong voice. I want to hear good stories. You will be graded on originality and inventiveness.....and do not slurrrrrr the words. I do not care what you were drinking when all this happened......TELL ME SOME STORIES. Linda Holley "Tipi Wastewin" ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat vs. Fla. Heat..OK...I have a pool Date: 12 Jul 2002 11:54:33 -0600 on 7/12/02 8:57 AM, Linda Holley at tipis@attbi.com wrote: > Hey you all, we people in Florida have had to put up with this heat and > humidity > for a long time and most of the year. What I would give for a good snow > storm. > And can we get off the traps and get into another fight on another subject on > some > distant planet in the Galaxy??? > How about going back to blankets or points or who made what gun and caliber or > who > makes the best JUG????? > > I know, how about letting some of us know, who could not get out and play this > summer, what was your best experience at an encampment you went too. I know, > the > summer ain't over yet. > Now come up to the front of the room, stand erect and speak in a strong voice. > I > want to hear good stories. You will be graded on originality and > inventiveness.....and do not slurrrrrr the words. I do not care what you were > drinking when all this happened......TELL ME SOME STORIES. > > Linda Holley > "Tipi Wastewin" > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Linda, Let's see, 105 deg at 5% humidity at 4600 ft. I will survive but I like it cooler. Dutch Oven's?, Kramers buttons? I don't know. The most interesting sight was Gib Sullivans white leggs showing from under his cappote headed fro the crapper at 7:00 am at AMM Nationals, kind of sticks in youre head. brbrbrbr. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Best Jug Competition ;) Date: 12 Jul 2002 15:34:26 EDT --part1_83.1d749287.2a608942_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/02 8:57 AM, Linda Holley at tipis@attbi.com wrote: > who makes the best JUG????? I'll get in on this one with my receipt for "Wolf's Breath". Here it is... 1/2 Gallon Apple Cider 5th Of Seagrams VO 5th Of Yukon Jack Sm. Bottle Grand Marnier 2 (or more) Cinnamon Sticks Mix all liquid ingredients then throw in the Cinnamon sticks, cap the jar and let the whole thing steep for a couple of days, weeks, whatever. The longer the better. It's a bit pricy, but you end up with full gallon of the concoction, and believe me, I've had to beat people down and put a lock on the door of my lodge to stop the pilfering! Barney --part1_83.1d749287.2a608942_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/12/02 8:57 AM, Linda Holley at tipis@attbi.com wrote:

who makes the best JUG?????



I'll get in on this one with my receipt for "Wolf's Breath". Here it is...

1/2 Gallon Apple Cider
5th Of Seagrams VO
5th Of Yukon Jack
Sm. Bottle Grand Marnier
2 (or more) Cinnamon Sticks

Mix all liquid ingredients then throw in the Cinnamon sticks, cap the jar and let the whole thing steep for a couple of days, weeks, whatever.  The longer the better.

It's a bit pricy, but you end up with full gallon of the concoction, and believe me, I've had to beat people down and put a lock on the door of my lodge to stop the pilfering! <GGG>

Barney







 --part1_83.1d749287.2a608942_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Best Jug Competition ;) Date: 12 Jul 2002 15:54:06 -0400 --------------B164D508C03575691EC7036B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OH!!!! gawd....now that might cure any of problems for good..... And white legs under a capote in the morning is always a "stirring" site. somewhere. Linda Holley LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/12/02 8:57 AM, Linda Holley at > tipis@attbi.com wrote: > > >> who makes the best JUG????? > > > > > I'll get in on this one with my receipt for "Wolf's Breath". > Here it is... > > 1/2 Gallon Apple Cider > 5th Of Seagrams VO > 5th Of Yukon Jack > Sm. Bottle Grand Marnier > 2 (or more) Cinnamon Sticks > > Mix all liquid ingredients then throw in the Cinnamon sticks, > cap the jar and let the whole thing steep for a couple of days, > weeks, whatever. The longer the better. > > It's a bit pricy, but you end up with full gallon of the > concoction, and believe me, I've had to beat people down and > put a lock on the door of my lodge to stop the pilfering! > > Barney > > > > > > > --------------B164D508C03575691EC7036B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OH!!!! gawd....now that might cure any of problems for good.....
And white legs under a capote in the morning is always a "stirring" site.  somewhere.

Linda Holley

LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 7/12/02 8:57 AM, Linda Holley at tipis@attbi.com wrote:
 
who makes the best JUG?????

 

I'll get in on this one with my receipt for "Wolf's Breath". Here it is...

1/2 Gallon Apple Cider
5th Of Seagrams VO
5th Of Yukon Jack
Sm. Bottle Grand Marnier
2 (or more) Cinnamon Sticks

Mix all liquid ingredients then throw in the Cinnamon sticks, cap the jar and let the whole thing steep for a couple of days, weeks, whatever.  The longer the better.

It's a bit pricy, but you end up with full gallon of the concoction, and believe me, I've had to beat people down and put a lock on the door of my lodge to stop the pilfering! <GGG>

Barney
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

--------------B164D508C03575691EC7036B-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Best Jug Competition ;) Date: 12 Jul 2002 13:18:30 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_II5WrBnu8fQ9Y5NpbDmRiw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable My entry for the best jug is an oldie but a goodie from Scotland. A few = mugs of this will have you charging at Englishmen waving a claymore! Athol Brose 4 cups rolled oats, (NOT instant oats - use the real thing!) 1 quart of water =BD cup of liquid honey 1 quart of Scotch Whiskey, (blended whiskey is considered acceptable in = this application) 1 quart of double (heavy) cream Soak the oats overnight in the water, then strain the oats through a = cheesecloth into a large container, (you can discard the oats, or heat = 'em up and eat them for breakfast.) To the oat-water, add the honey, = cream, and whiskey. Blend well, and let sit in a cool place for at least = a day, (two is better) to allow the flavours to marry. stir or shake = well before serving. Gie him strong drink until he wink,=20 That's sinking in despair;=20 An' liquor guid to fire his bluid,=20 That's prest wi' grief and care:=20 There let him bouse, an' deep carouse,=20 Wi' bumpers flowing o'er,=20 Till he forgets his loves or debts,=20 An' minds his griefs no more. - Robert Burns =20 Black Knife Ni h'=E9ibhneas gan Chlainn Domhnaill " Per Mare Per Terras" --Boundary_(ID_II5WrBnu8fQ9Y5NpbDmRiw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
My entry for the best jug is an oldie but a = goodie from=20 Scotland. A few mugs of this will have you charging at Englishmen waving = a=20 claymore!
 
Athol = Brose
 
4 cups rolled oats, (NOT instant oats - use the = real=20 thing!)
1 quart of water
=BD cup of liquid honey
1 quart of Scotch Whiskey, (blended whiskey is = considered=20 acceptable in this application)
1 quart of double (heavy) cream
 
 
Soak the oats overnight in the water, = then strain the=20 oats through a cheesecloth into a large container, (you can discard the = oats, or=20 heat 'em up and eat them for breakfast.) To the oat-water, add the = honey, cream,=20 and whiskey. Blend well, and let sit in a cool place for at least a day, = (two is=20 better) to allow the flavours to marry. stir or shake well before=20 serving.
 
Gie him strong drink until he = wink,=20
That's sinking in despair;
An' liquor guid to fire his bluid, =
That's=20 prest wi' grief and care:
There let him bouse, an' deep carouse, =
Wi'=20 bumpers flowing o'er, 
Till he forgets his loves or=20 debts, 
An' minds his griefs no more.
 
- Robert = Burns  
 
 
Black Knife
 
Ni h'=E9ibhneas gan Chlainn=20 Domhnaill
        " Per Mare Per=20 Terras"
--Boundary_(ID_II5WrBnu8fQ9Y5NpbDmRiw)-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 12 Jul 2002 13:43:07 -0700 Kissey, kissey Pablo you old dog. Hey Stan Honuor isn't doing to good I hear, any news. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:59:33 Paul Jones wrote: >Concho, > >No, no, sell to us, please! The "nothing from lame one-armed trappers" was >taken from a selfless post from our resident trapping guru and general all >round wonderexpert, and not intended to reference any honorable person, >living or otherwise, fully-limbed or whatever. > >So relax and pull out your medicine wagon of neat goods. > >Pablo > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Daniel L. Concho Smith" >To: >Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:46 AM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line > > >> Thanks Jones, >> >> Crap - so much for what I was going to sell. >> >> Concho [HRD] >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Historical Research & Development >> "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> >> On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 10:03:25 >> Paul Jones wrote: >> >Certainly, Frank, we continue to be interested in quality items, >however, nothing from lame one-armed trappers is acceptable. >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________________ >> Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads >> and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. >> http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 12 Jul 2002 14:08:19 -0700 On Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:05:04 Paul Jones wrote: >Larry, > >Please be nice. Otherwise he will not share his discovery, and we shall >remain, together with all of the L&C experts, forever in the dark? > >Pablo > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "larry pendleton" >To: >Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 11:06 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line > > Which is about as likely as me winning the Lotto ! ! ! ! >> ! >> If you don't mind, figure out the difference between Shit and Shineola, >> then share your knowledge with us. >> Pendleton #1572 Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary has : "Sh.." - we all know this one, a body function/waste, a deposit of waste, some folks are full of it. "Shine" - 1.to emit light:Beam. 2.to reflect light:Glint. 3.to distinguish oneself in a field or activity:Excel. "ola" - not known, but knowing Larry he may have mis-spelled the word, possibly "olla" - 1.wide mouthed jar or pot made of earthenware. 2. an olla podrida. Pablo - bring out some new wares, how about some wide mouth earthenware jars with to be used for "when nature calls" when in confined areas, with all the fires around anyone with a hot load would have no problem keeping safety in mind. You could call them "For Shinging Times", "Shineolla Pots" or "Larry's Thunder Mugs" - Larry would Excel. - what do you think. Brother you could clean up. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Knapp Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-Jug addition Date: 12 Jul 2002 15:22:27 -0600 > This is called Fish House Punch 1 fifth Cognac 1 fifth Peach Brandy 1 fifth Gold Rum 1 fifth Jamacain Rum 1 gt water 1 qt sour mix of 17 oz lemon juice 12 oz Bar syrup (Mix 3 cup water with 5 cups sugar, heat till sugar is disloved) Mix all ingredients together, cool and ENJOY. More than one glass will cause one to retire to bed early!! If any of you are going to be at the Green River Lake camp this next week, I'll share. Dennis Knapp aka Sticher Southern Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: I was out of line Date: 12 Jul 2002 16:59:02 -0700 You could call them "For Shinging Times", "Shineolla Pots" or "Larry's Thunder Mugs" - Larry would Excel. - what do you think. Brother you could clean up. Concho [HRD] >>Not a bad idea, Concho ! The possibilities are endless. I'll have to ponder on it. Pendleton ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mitch Post Date: 12 Jul 2002 14:57:42 -0700 (PDT) hist_test_unsubscribe_hiparoo@yahoo.com ===== "It is much easier to be critical than to be correct"...Disraeli __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 12 Jul 2002 16:14:32 -0600 Hey, What's up? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 3:57 PM > hist_test_unsubscribe_hiparoo@yahoo.com > > ===== > "It is much easier to be critical than to be correct"...Disraeli > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free > http://sbc.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Best Jugs Date: 12 Jul 2002 17:31:36 -0700 Well...My wife has a real nice set of....oh.... I thought you said Best Jugs... sorry Hardtack > [Original Message] > From: Linda Holley > To: > Date: 7/12/02 7:57:51 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat vs. Fla. Heat..OK...I have a pool > > Hey you all, we people in Florida have had to put up with this heat and humidity > for a long time and most of the year. What I would give for a good snow storm. > And can we get off the traps and get into another fight on another subject on some > distant planet in the Galaxy??? > How about going back to blankets or points or who made what gun and caliber or who > makes the best JUG????? > > I know, how about letting some of us know, who could not get out and play this > summer, what was your best experience at an encampment you went too. I know, the > summer ain't over yet. > Now come up to the front of the room, stand erect and speak in a strong voice. I > want to hear good stories. You will be graded on originality and > inventiveness.....and do not slurrrrrr the words. I do not care what you were > drinking when all this happened......TELL ME SOME STORIES. > > Linda Holley > "Tipi Wastewin" > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --- Randal Bublitz --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Best Jugs Date: 12 Jul 2002 20:34:35 -0400 "Well...My wife has a real nice set of." Hardtack, One.. That is too damned easy and Two.... I ain't sayin' a word till you set that brace of horse pistols down... D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Best Jugs Date: 12 Jul 2002 17:45:24 -0700 I thought we was talkin' bout one or a pair of them mugs named after Larry ! Dennis I have some really good home made wine, not bad even warm - got tired of waiting for it to cool. Watch the skyline when leaving and do come back. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. On Fri, 12 Jul 2002 20:34:35 Double Edge Forge wrote: > > >"Well...My wife has a real nice set of." > > Hardtack, > One.. That is too damned easy and Two.... I ain't sayin' a word till you >set that brace of horse pistols down... >D > > > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Best Jugs Date: 12 Jul 2002 21:01:38 -0400 I knew when I said you have to stand "erect" in front of the class I would get a few good "ones". You guys......... Linda Holley Randal Bublitz wrote: > Well...My wife has a real nice set of....oh.... I thought you said Best > Jugs... sorry Hardtack > > > [Original Message] > > From: Linda Holley > > To: > > Date: 7/12/02 7:57:51 AM > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: West Coast Heat vs. Fla. Heat..OK...I have a > pool > > > > Hey you all, we people in Florida have had to put up with this heat and > humidity > > for a long time and most of the year. What I would give for a good snow > storm. > > And can we get off the traps and get into another fight on another > subject on some > > distant planet in the Galaxy??? > > How about going back to blankets or points or who made what gun and > caliber or who > > makes the best JUG????? > > > > I know, how about letting some of us know, who could not get out and play > this > > summer, what was your best experience at an encampment you went too. I > know, the > > summer ain't over yet. > > Now come up to the front of the room, stand erect and speak in a strong > voice. I > > want to hear good stories. You will be graded on originality and > > inventiveness.....and do not slurrrrrr the words. I do not care what you > were > > drinking when all this happened......TELL ME SOME STORIES. > > > > Linda Holley > > "Tipi Wastewin" > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > --- Randal Bublitz > --- rjbublitz@earthlink.net > we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers, > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Date: 12 Jul 2002 23:07:26 EDT In a message dated 7/12/02 3:15:25 PM, ghickman9@attbi.com writes: << Hey, What's up? >> Bead.... I think Mitch is makin a run for it! I ran into Rick Tabor at NW Brigade, and he sez Red Dog is headed to Oregun, and gonna camp with him for a spell. That's a little too close to my camp for comfort.... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 13 Jul 2002 21:21:50 -0700 TEST ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TEST Date: 13 Jul 2002 19:46:15 -0700 "...TEST..." Yeah, it's working LP Just a real quiet night I guess... Alan ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Fred Gowans Date: 14 Jul 2002 01:24:25 EDT --part1_184.aede2f6.2a626509_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the camp Went to Pinedale Wy and Fred did a talk on the contrubutions of Robinson, Rezner and Hoback. Their going thru Yellowstone with Henry. Finding of South Pass and Union Pass and may be getting to Salt Lake long before Bridger. Fred will be at Ft. Bridger for Labor day. Better to count horse ribs than horse tracks Mark 'Roadkill" Loader --part1_184.aede2f6.2a626509_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the camp
Went to Pinedale Wy and Fred did a talk on the contrubutions of Robinson, Rezner and Hoback. Their going thru Yellowstone with Henry. Finding of South Pass and Union Pass and may be getting to Salt Lake long before Bridger. Fred will be at Ft. Bridger for Labor day.
Better to count horse ribs than horse tracks
Mark 'Roadkill" Loader --part1_184.aede2f6.2a626509_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Catahoula V" Subject: MtMan-List: tinning steel Date: 14 Jul 2002 16:53:09 +0000 I have found a source for 99.95 pure tin and want to tin my steel kettles. Any suggestions on how to go about it? Catahoula _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Glover Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fred Gowans Date: 14 Jul 2002 13:52:05 -0600 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_1a83.48d8.47f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Mark. Will look forward to seeing Fred at Bridger. And you too?! Teton On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:24:25 EDT MarkLoader@aol.com writes: Hello the camp Went to Pinedale Wy and Fred did a talk on the contrubutions of Robinson, Rezner and Hoback. Their going thru Yellowstone with Henry. Finding of South Pass and Union Pass and may be getting to Salt Lake long before Bridger. Fred will be at Ft. Bridger for Labor day. Better to count horse ribs than horse tracks Mark 'Roadkill" Loader "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html ----__JNP_000_1a83.48d8.47f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Mark. Will look forward to seeing Fred at Bridger. And you=20 too?!
 
Teton
 
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 01:24:25 EDT MarkLoader@aol.com writes:
Hello the camp
Went = to=20 Pinedale Wy and Fred did a talk on the contrubutions of Robinson, Rezner = and=20 Hoback. Their going thru Yellowstone with Henry. Finding of South Pass = and=20 Union Pass and may be getting to Salt Lake long before Bridger. Fred will= be=20 at Ft. Bridger for Labor day.
Better to count horse ribs than horse = tracks=20
Mark 'Roadkill" Loader
 

"Teton" Todd D. Glover=20 #1784
http://poisonriverparty.homestead.com/TetonTodd.html
----__JNP_000_1a83.48d8.47f4-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "jay geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trap chain cooking Date: 14 Jul 2002 15:23:50 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22B4A.74BC58B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Klahowya Sihks, I realize this discussion is a bit old, but I been away for a week or = two. I must say getting caught up on my reading has been interesting. = Now I don't post too often, but I think a possible solution has been = overlooked. Now, I caution that this is speculation on my part, but = here goes... Everyone remembers the game where the secret is repeated = until it is totally messed up, or how gossip can be retold and added to = till the truth is lost forever. Well folklore is almost the same. Is = it not possible that someone used a spare piece of trap chain, possibly = purchased at rendezvous and carried along as a spare, to hang his cook = pot. Now somebody saw this and/or told of this and after 180yrs in the = telling it got turned around to the entire trap in the story. Them some = folks always eager to show there knowledge start arguing over the jot = and tittle of the damn thing and before you know it its a pissin match. = Everyone of us has read something while doing research and took it as = gospel only to find out we were wrong and that great author didn't = really know scat, or at least only part of his scat. Now hopefully some = buckskinner was willing to pull us aside and show us the error in our = thinkin without makin us out the fool. And hopefully, we were each of = us able to accept that guidance without gettin to mule headed. This = list is for the sharing of research and guidance with each other = regardless of where we are on the trail, lets try keepin it that way. =20 Whew got that out of my system, now pass me them taste tests for the = best jug fixins, I'm a might parched. PoorBoy.....or Jay Geisinger for those of you that would prefer I use my = real monicker. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22B4A.74BC58B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Klahowya Sihks,
 
I realize this discussion is a bit old, = but I been=20 away for a week or two.  I must say getting caught up on my reading = has=20 been interesting.  Now I don't post too often, but I think a = possible=20 solution has been overlooked.  Now, I caution that this is = speculation on=20 my part, but here goes... Everyone remembers the game where the secret = is=20 repeated until it is totally messed up, or how gossip can be retold and = added to=20 till the truth is lost forever.  Well folklore is almost the = same.  Is=20 it not possible that someone used a spare piece of trap chain, possibly=20 purchased at rendezvous and carried along as a spare, to hang his cook=20 pot.  Now somebody saw this and/or told of this and after 180yrs in = the=20 telling it got turned around to the entire trap in the story.  Them = some=20 folks always eager to show there knowledge start arguing over the jot = and tittle=20 of the damn thing and before you know it its a pissin match.  = Everyone of=20 us has read something while doing research and took it as gospel only to = find=20 out we were wrong and that great author didn't really know scat, or at = least=20 only part of his scat.  Now hopefully some buckskinner was willing = to pull=20 us aside and show us the error in our thinkin without makin us out the=20 fool.  And hopefully, we were each of us able to accept that = guidance=20 without gettin to mule headed.  This list is for the sharing of = research=20 and guidance with each other regardless of where we are on the trail, = lets try=20 keepin it that way. 
 
Whew got that out of my system, now = pass me them=20 taste tests for the best jug fixins, I'm a might parched.
PoorBoy.....or Jay Geisinger for those = of you that=20 would prefer I use my real monicker.
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C22B4A.74BC58B0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:trap chain cooking Date: 15 Jul 2002 07:38:26 -0700 Well PoorBoy, What you stated has merit, but in defense of most (not all) research author's and information stated by them, overall they give as much as possible at the time their research was done, but as we all know as time and methods of detection improve "what was correct at one time may and sometimes changes todays information from what was done a year or so before", look at the JFK stuff - 1st it was one group, then another and another, the story changes with each little piece added to the puzzle. We have a friend (a retired ILL Historical Society Researcher) that has good solid information (proof) about Lewis' death - was not of his own doing, Crosby contacted the National Historical Society in Washington D.C. and was told if this information was used it would costs millions in just rewriting history, so nothing has been done. So we go with what has been recorded, even though those that have seen the documents he has know better, agree of the mistake - nothing changed. Sometimes you win and sometimes your just stuck knowing personally what is right or wrong. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:23:50 jay geisinger wrote: >Klahowya Sihks, > and after 180yrs in the telling it got turned around to the entire trap in the story. Them some folks always eager to show there knowledge start arguing over the jot and tittle of the damn thing and before you know it its a pissin match. Everyone of us has read something while doing research and took it as gospel only to find out we were wrong and that great author didn't really know scat, or at least only part of his scat. >PoorBoy.....or Jay Geisinger for those of you that would prefer I use my real monicker. > _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dyeing and Waxing Traps Date: 16 Jul 2002 10:12:17 EDT I tried to stay out of this. The dye preserves the traps to slow down rusting. The wax used today speeds the traps up (makes them spring faster ). Bees weren't this far west yet and the wax we use today, for the most part, is an oil by product. Still to early. So more likely dye was used but not wax. Lots of natural dyes all across this country. Ridge Pole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 10:35:43 -0700 I'm a writer researching the fur trade era. Can anyone tell me what they used for soap? Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 10:35:43 -0700 I'm a writer researching the fur trade era. Can anyone tell me what they used for soap? Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 10:53:41 -0700 "...I'm a writer researching the fur trade era. Can anyone tell me what they used for soap?..." Off the top off my head, I would say they used...soap. (soap is a documented trade item from the mountain man era.) Contrary to popular belief, most mountain men weren't any less clean and didn't smell any worse than most other people of that era, (maybe even better than some, as they spent a lot of time in the water.) One cannot apply 20th, (or 21th) century standards of personal hygiene to the late 1700's and early 1800's. Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JW Stephens Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 11:18:03 -0700 I have read that during the winter baths were not frequent in the mountains. The water that trappers worked in was not above waist deep, and they didn't spend any more time in it than they had to. Didn't do anything for cleansing the "top half." Could it be that, as a group, since they all stank, none could smell the others? Also, since they often bedded together (see Garrard, Gregg) they might not have wanted to piss off they's "bed buddy." Lice were often reported as a problem, and many trappers looked forward to spring when they could spread their clothing on ant hills to get that problem cleaned up. The primary sources that I have read led me to believe that cleanliness was a cyclical problem in the winter: They could clean they body or clean they clothes, but one without the other was pretty useless, so why bother. Most used all of they clothes all of the time in the winter. Ditto with bedding. Of course there were some winter quarters with all of the comforts of home, including the hot springs which are not infrequent in the Rocky Mountain west: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/seg/m2h?/net/web/seg/data/menus/springs.men+MAIN+MENU but these seem to be the exception, not the rule. My take is that trappers relished a bath, but it was not often practical during the winter in the shining mountains. B'st'rd He who is called "Black Knife" wrote: > > Off the top off my head, I would say they used...soap. (soap is a documented > trade item from the mountain man era.) Contrary to popular belief, most > mountain men weren't any less clean and didn't smell any worse than most > other people of that era, (maybe even better than some, as they spent a lot > of time in the water.) One cannot apply 20th, (or 21th) century standards of > personal hygiene to the late 1700's and early 1800's. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 11:55:31 -0700 "...My take is that trappers relished a bath, but it was not often practical during the winter in the shining mountains. B'st'rd..." No argument from me on that! I was responding to a question of what was used for soap. I answered "soap", and I went on to point out that mountain men displayed the same level of personal hygiene as most other people of the time. That doesn't mean they didn't get a little (or a lot) rank sometimes, and I certainly did not mean to suggest that they made a habit of bathing in icy cold streams (just the thought of going in those streams at all is enough to make my sack shrivel!) but the fact that they went in those streams may have given them a edge in cleanliness over some others. I was just pointing out that they were about as clean as most other (non city dwelling) folks. A lot of people seem to think that mountain men were unspeakably filthy, rotten, crude, unwashed, savages and...oh wait...I forgot about Dennis!! never mind! Black Knife aka Alan ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 15:48:52 -0400 Soap. D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 1:35 PM > I'm a writer researching the fur trade era. Can anyone tell me what they > used for soap? > > Geri D > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 15:54:28 -0400 " unspeakably filthy, rotten, crude, unwashed, savages and...oh wait...I forgot about Dennis!!" >>I, Sir, am quite civilized, thank you....... D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jugs&trap chain cooking aside, Date: 16 Jul 2002 13:09:44 -0700 "..." unspeakably filthy, rotten, crude, unwashed, savages and...oh wait...I forgot about Dennis!!" >>I, Sir, am quite civilized, thank you.........." So where did I say you weren't civilized? Black Knife aka Alan ...who had hoped to be able to sneak that one by.... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Soap and Hygiene Date: 16 Jul 2002 14:03:51 -0700 There are not many direct references in the journals to bathing habits or lack thereof, so one must read between the lines. First we need to recall the average custom of the day. In the days before running water, it was a major undertaking to prepare a bath, therefore, washing more than hands and face was fairly rare, except perhaps in the summer when streams and ponds were tolerable. There are some references commenting on the "amazingly good health" of the Indians, since it was believed that you had to wear a lot of clothes to avoid illness. This is the background mentality of the settlements. Travelers from Europe like Charles Dickens commented on the generally low standards of hygiene in America. Around 1900, America began its long march to becoming the plumbing and bathing capital of the world, but early 19th century conditions were distinctly grubby. Now imagine men living outdoors in the wilderness, wading muddy beaver ponds and daily skinning their catch and any other animals they hunted. One must assume that on the whole, trappers were about as greasy and grimy as we can imagine. There are some references, sometimes humerous, to washing in creeks, boiling shirts, etc, but they are related as exceptional cases worthy of comment. But, if it was hot enough to relish a dip in the creek, I imagine they did so. There are also some comments to going months without washing, hair matted, etc, which also must have been somewhat exceptional. Living outdoors around campfires, one pretty much gets used to various smells. Anyone who has cleaned a game animal realizes that your hands get rather gamy smelling and it's not that easy to wash off, even with soap. All that said, if they had soap, it assume it would have been the usual preparation made with lye and wood ashes. Also, certain plants produce a somewhat soapy effect. Pat Quilter ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 16 Jul 2002 17:26:26 -0500 Friends, I have had a devil of a time finding a single cavity bullet mold for my Brown Bess. It has to be a period-looking .75 cal mold (no large square mold blocks, please), as per examples in Newmann and Kravic, p. 192. It would be nice if it had a sprue cutter at the base of the handles, but I won't hold my breath for that added convenience. I don't know if .75 cal molds had them. Where can I find such an animal? Who makes them and how much? Web addresses would be appreciated. What about gang molds? Does anyone make those? Thanks, HBC *********************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University Box 43191 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu 806/742-2442, ext 255 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu ***Living History . . . Because It's There*** ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 16 Jul 2002 18:05:27 -0500 Henry, Rapine makes what you want. They used to have a web site which I can't find anymore, I can't lay my hands on a current address, I'm sure someone has it handy. Speedy they weren't on my last order. John... At 05:26 PM 7/16/02, you wrote: >Friends, > >I have had a devil of a time finding a single cavity bullet mold for my >Brown Bess. It has to be a period-looking .75 cal mold (no large square >mold blocks, please), as per examples in Newmann and Kravic, p. 192. It >would be nice if it had a sprue cutter at the base of the handles, but I >won't hold my breath for that added convenience. I don't know if .75 cal >molds had them. > >Where can I find such an animal? Who makes them and how much? Web >addresses would be appreciated. > >What about gang molds? Does anyone make those? > >Thanks, >HBC > >*********************************** >Henry B. Crawford >Curator of History >Museum of Texas Tech University >Box 43191 >Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 >henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu >806/742-2442, ext 255 FAX 742-1136 >Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu >***Living History . . . Because It's There*** > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html John T. Kramer >>>As good as old!<<< KRAMER'S BEST ANTIQUE IMPROVER >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< We accept most credit cards, checks, cash, gold, silver, and other common forms of exchange. Order by fax, phone, mail, email; or on-line secure server (soon). mail to: 816-252-9512 voice 816-252-9121 fax Kramer Products, Inc. POB 8715 Sugar Creek, MO 64054 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Alfred J. Miller Date: 16 Jul 2002 19:46:35 EDT Hello the camp Some time ago I told you could get copies of the Miller paintings at the Joslyn Art Museum. A couple tried and were unable. I just received two 16 by 20 photos of two different pieces, The Trappers Bride and Fontenelle Chased by a Grizzly Bear. The museum has 131 of Miller art on hand. You call 402-342-3300 ask for Larry he can send you a list with reference numbersm for ordering. There is a $20 for color processing fee for each piece $35 for a 16 x20 and $5 for shipping. I paid $115 to get two color 16 x 20 Miller prints. I think if the piece has already been copied you do not have to pay for the processing. Hope this helps Mark "Roadkill" Loader ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20MtMan-List:=20Mold=20for=20Brown=20Bess,=20.75=20?= Date: 16 Jul 2002 21:19:39 EDT Hallo Henry, John has it right.... Rapine makes just about any cal mold you'd want. Here=20 is the address and phone number.The mold you want is the "primitive bag=20 mould" and they ain't cheap.... my last .530 mold cost $59.95 (up about $10=20 from last year) but you can't find a better bag mold anywhere. They also=20 carry a pretty slick copper lead ladle..... Rapine Bullet Mold Mfg. Co. 9503 Landis Lane East Greenville, PA 18041 215-679-5413 Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: MtMan-List: regarding spam Date: 17 Jul 2002 07:56:57 -0500 Ladies and Gentlemen of the List, As I am sure you remember, last week we had a couple of spam emails sent through The List. I hate spam so I followed up on these. I received an email from a "F G. Leibel " who wrote that if I received anymore spam that I should forward it to him/her in it's entirety to abuse@xmission.com and that it would be dealt with. I have saved that letter and will do as instructed if more of that sort of thing rears it's ugly head again. Just thought you might want to tuck the address away just in case I don't catch it. YMOS, John The Stitchin' Scotsman 100% Handsewn Elkhide garments and moccasins Manu Forti www.stitchinscotsman.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Soap and Hygiene Date: 17 Jul 2002 06:34:42 -0700 Here's a letter written to customers looking for correct period soap from Clark & Sons Mercantile a few years ago, by the way this was the revised recipe from another that was dated approxmiately 50 years before the 1710 date of the new soap. Date: May 19, 1996 Hey, “The Camp”; Subject: 1710 Recipe - Soap. I’m told the curing time because of the recipe (just discovered this year in PA., in an early 1700’s cookbook - 2nd edition dated 1710); is a lengthy 2 months. We’re looking at December 1st for our supply to arrive. This will be a correct early American Colonies Soap that is right in ever possible way from its manufacture to its content. Researchers have found soap particles that have this soap's material makeup in the finds on the western frontier (Ohio), back then that was the wild country. You’ll be reading about this soap in articles by Mark Baker, John Curry and others in most of the magazines, such as Muzzleloader, Backwoodsman, On The Trail, Tomahawk & Long Rifle, Smoke & Fire News, etc. Thank You Buck dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile Thank you for the chance to further my knowledge and possibly give you alittle help in your search too. ------------ I was the one that researched the soap recipe and found the folks that where still using it in the Amish communities today. I think Pablo of C&SM still has the soap listed in his wares. My 1/2 cent worth. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. ------------------ On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:03:51 Pat Quilter wrote: >There are not many direct references in the journals to bathing habits or >lack thereof, so one must read between the lines. > >First we need to recall the average custom of the day. In the days before >running water, it was a major undertaking to prepare a bath, therefore, >washing more than hands and face was fairly rare, except perhaps in the >summer when streams and ponds were tolerable. There are some references >commenting on the "amazingly good health" of the Indians, since it was >believed that you had to wear a lot of clothes to avoid illness. This is the >background mentality of the settlements. Travelers from Europe like Charles >Dickens commented on the generally low standards of hygiene in America. >Around 1900, America began its long march to becoming the plumbing and >bathing capital of the world, but early 19th century conditions were >distinctly grubby. > >Now imagine men living outdoors in the wilderness, wading muddy beaver ponds >and daily skinning their catch and any other animals they hunted. One must >assume that on the whole, trappers were about as greasy and grimy as we can >imagine. There are some references, sometimes humerous, to washing in >creeks, boiling shirts, etc, but they are related as exceptional cases >worthy of comment. But, if it was hot enough to relish a dip in the creek, >I imagine they did so. There are also some comments to going months without >washing, hair matted, etc, which also must have been somewhat exceptional. >Living outdoors around campfires, one pretty much gets used to various >smells. Anyone who has cleaned a game animal realizes that your hands get >rather gamy smelling and it's not that easy to wash off, even with soap. > >All that said, if they had soap, it assume it would have been the usual >preparation made with lye and wood ashes. Also, certain plants produce a >somewhat soapy effect. > >Pat Quilter > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mtnman1449@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred J. Miller Date: 17 Jul 2002 10:47:55 -0400 Thanks for this additional info Mark. I don't think everyone at the museum is with the program. I sent an email to the address listed last time and got a response that they carry NO AJM and directed me to the Amon Carter and one one other museum. This should help. Thanks. Pat. Patrick Surrena AMM #1449 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 17 Jul 2002 10:35:25 -0500 Thanks. I found their web address. http://www.customreloads.com/rapine.html HBC >Hallo Henry, > >John has it right.... Rapine makes just about any cal mold you'd want. Here=20 >is the address and phone number.The mold you want is the "primitive bag=20 >mould" and they ain't cheap.... my last .530 mold cost $59.95 (up about $10=20 >from last year) but you can't find a better bag mold anywhere. They also=20 >carry a pretty slick copper lead ladle..... > >Rapine Bullet Mold Mfg. Co. >9503 Landis Lane >East Greenville, PA 18041 >215-679-5413 > >Ymos, >Magpie > *********************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University Box 43191 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu 806/742-2442, ext 255 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu ***Living History . . . Because It's There*** ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 17 Jul 2002 12:23:24 EDT In a message dated 7/17/02 8:36:48 AM, mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU writes: << I found their web address. http://www.customreloads.com/rapine.html >> Henry.... I don't think that's Rapine's web page. Ah....I'm also not sure you mentioned if you wanted a round ball mould, or conical.....seems to me the Bess shot mostly a slug. Anyway, I found their catalog, and the only "primitive" bag mould they make is for the round ball in .715, .735, and .750.... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: MtMan-List: 1710 Recipe - Soap Date: 17 Jul 2002 13:43:37 -0500 But remember, a "correct" recipe is just a part of the deal. My wife brought home some lye soap she bought from an outfit that sold soap "like your ancestors used." It was sold in a Styrofoam cup for a mold! I don't know what was done in the mountaineer era, but my grandmother would pour the soap into a rectangular mold, and when it partially dried she would cut the soap into cakes. As it completely dried, the faces would shrink, leaving concave sides on the cakes, especially on the top. That was a far cry from a Styrofoam cup shape. BTW I was using the soap for shaving until my wife threw it out because it attracted ants. I thought it served the ants right to eat soap. The soap must have still had some of the fat that was not converted to soap. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner >Subject: 1710 Recipe - Soap. >I'm told the curing time because of the recipe (just discovered >this year in PA., in an early 1700's cookbook - 2nd edition dated >1710); is a lengthy 2 months. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Soap, Now Pistol info Date: 17 Jul 2002 11:49:46 -0700 Thanks to all for the variety of "soap" answers. While I am aware the trappers shaved (shaving soap mentioned on pack train lists), did not know if they carried it otherwise. Am I correct in reading that the lye and ash soap took 2 months to make? OK, what type pistol would a trapper have carried in the 1830-40 era? Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wahkahchim@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Blunderbuss Date: 17 Jul 2002 16:16:15 -0400 I was just wondering if anyone still makes a good shootable blunderbuss these days. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Soap, Now Pistol info Date: 17 Jul 2002 14:31:46 -0700 Shaving is a good point, possibly a good reason to bring a small amount of soap along, which must have been a fairly perishable item, what with rain, creeks, etc to contend with. Pistols in 1830-40: if I was there I would acquire 1-2 caplock muzzle loaders, although there would still be flintlocks of course. A pistol was your last defense in a close battle with man or bear, and a system which could be kept ready to go despite much jumping about would be appealing. The difficulty and perishability of early caps would have been alleviated by the relatively infrequent use of a backup weapon. However, let the real arms experts speak. Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:50 AM Thanks to all for the variety of "soap" answers. While I am aware the trappers shaved (shaving soap mentioned on pack train lists), did not know if they carried it otherwise. Am I correct in reading that the lye and ash soap took 2 months to make? OK, what type pistol would a trapper have carried in the 1830-40 era? Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: MtMan-List: : Re: Soap and Hygiene Date: 18 Jul 2002 09:39:26 +1200 What about steam baths , or was that an Indian ritual ? Cheers Dunc ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Don & Janice Shero" Subject: MtMan-List: bullet mould Date: 17 Jul 2002 19:33:56 -0500 Mr. Crawford, You may already know of Jeff Tanner in sunny olde England. http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/ The moulds don't look period, but what do I know. 23 US bucks, or $75 for a gang mould for your Bess. plus shipping , handles 15 GB/Pounds. wonder if a forged set of handles could be made and pass as period? Don, in Iowa ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: Lye soap Date: 17 Jul 2002 21:09:34 -0500 Ho the list Lots of folks seem to be mystified or intimidated by lye soap. Lye soap is not complicated to make nor is it hard to buy. If a product appears to be soap..and it claims to be "soap" it is likely to be a form of lye soap...otherwise it is probably a detergent. Ivory soap is pretty much lye and fat....lye soap. We have made lots of lye soap using all kinds of fat (lard is what we prefer but practically any fat will do) and commercial lye (drain cleaner) and if directions are followed carefully it is not harsh, stinging or otherwise non-user friendly. Well made lye soap is great for washing your hair and bathing in general as well as for laundry and general cleaning chores. If you give the mixture a few judicious stirs near the end of the thickening process the resulting product will float. Purists can build a drip trough and make their own lye from hardwood ashes, but we use Red Devil Lye. Click here for a long list of sites which tell you all you ever wanted to know about making lye soap. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=%22lye+soap+recipe%22 YMOS Lanney ps: I made a soap mold for SWMBO from a 2ft by 3ft piece of 3/8" plywood enclosed by a frame of 1/2in by 1-1/2in trim, making what looks like a wooden sheet cake pan. Line the mold with a damp cotton dishtowel and pour the soap mixture into the mold and set it aside to harden......a few hours a most. When the soap....take you choice of the recipes....is about the consistency of your mama's fudge cut it to shape with a kitchen knife. It will be better if removed from the mold and left to air cure for several weeks. We have even made some with a loop of rope running through....soap on a rope, which is dang handy to hang near a wash station near your tent. pps: Don't forget the damp dish towel, otherwise you will have to whittle the soap from the mold. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lye soap Date: 17 Jul 2002 21:21:23 -0500 I forgot this: Forget about boiling the soap for hours in a big iron pot over a fire in the backyard as some of the recipes tell you. Use this recipe http://www.idahofreedom.com/soap/soap1001.html and follow it exactly....paying close attention matching the temperatures of the fat and the lye mixture. Also, forget about rendering all that fat unless you crave the cracklin's. Just buy lard in one pound boxes and use that. Trust me, making lye soap is not hard. I DO recommend doing it outside. The fumes can be noxious and if you screw up and knock the pan over it is much better to do it outside instead of in the kitchen. Lanney ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred J. Miller Date: 17 Jul 2002 20:50:37 -0600 Is the Joslyn museum in Omaha? Don On Thursday, September 4, 1941, Mtnman1449@aol.com wrote: >Thanks for this additional info Mark. I don't think everyone at >the museum is with the program. I sent an email to the address >listed last time and got a response that they carry NO AJM and >directed me to the Amon Carter and one one other museum. This >should help. Thanks. Pat. > >Patrick Surrena >AMM #1449 > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 18 Jul 2002 06:54:18 -0600 Hello the Camp! October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be holding our 3 "Geezer Camp" Please come and camp with us and enjoy the discussions with some of the long time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we have had a great time getting together for some shooting and primitive archery. Ole > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "De Santis, Nick" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 18 Jul 2002 10:41:32 -0700 Henry I have seen a few good replies to this request, but I will add one more. I had a hard time finding a .520 mold, and kept looking on ebay (found one!). There seems to be a few different ones on there all the time. Try both spellings - mould and mold. Good luck, Nick -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 3:26 PM Friends, I have had a devil of a time finding a single cavity bullet mold for my Brown Bess. It has to be a period-looking .75 cal mold (no large square mold blocks, please), as per examples in Newmann and Kravic, p. 192. It would be nice if it had a sprue cutter at the base of the handles, but I won't hold my breath for that added convenience. I don't know if .75 cal molds had them. Where can I find such an animal? Who makes them and how much? Web addresses would be appreciated. What about gang molds? Does anyone make those? Thanks, HBC *********************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University Box 43191 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu 806/742-2442, ext 255 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu ***Living History . . . Because It's There*** ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 18 Jul 2002 17:02:18 -0600 Where is the camp and who qualifies for an old geezer? Me? Don On Friday, September 5, 1941, Ole Jensen wrote: >Hello the Camp! >October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be holding our 3 "Geezer = Camp" >Please come and camp with us and enjoy the discussions with some of the = long >time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we have had a great time >getting together for some shooting and primitive archery. >Ole >>=20 >>=20 >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1710 Recipe - Soap Date: 18 Jul 2002 16:58:09 -0700 Iron Burner, This period soap is done the same way it has always been made, in a large pan, cut into squares and left to cure, when cured it as hard as can be. I saw Buck Conner drive a square cut nail through a 1 inch pine board with a bar of the "1710" soap held in his palm, then wet it enough to make a lather to shave with. He told an interested lady at Ft. de Chartre that she could "colds cock her old man when he got out of hand with this soap and the cops would never find the instrument that did the job". Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:43:37 Glenn Darilek wrote: >But remember, a "correct" recipe is just a part of the deal. My wife >brought home some lye soap she bought from an outfit that sold soap >"like your ancestors used." It was sold in a Styrofoam cup for a mold! > >I don't know what was done in the mountaineer era, but my grandmother >would pour the soap into a rectangular mold, and when it partially dried >she would cut the soap into cakes. As it completely dried, the faces >would shrink, leaving concave sides on the cakes, especially on the top. >That was a far cry from a Styrofoam cup shape. BTW I was using the soap >for shaving until my wife threw it out because it attracted ants. I >thought it served the ants right to eat soap. The soap must have still >had some of the fat that was not converted to soap. > >Glenn Darilek >Iron Burner > > >>Subject: 1710 Recipe - Soap. > >>I'm told the curing time because of the recipe (just discovered >>this year in PA., in an early 1700's cookbook - 2nd edition dated >>1710); is a lengthy 2 months. > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TerryTwoBear@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 18 Jul 2002 22:08:44 EDT ole, where will the geezer camp be? two bear ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 18 Jul 2002 20:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Ole, I understand that Boneyventure is closed. Where do you plan on holding it this time? Dog --- Ole Jensen wrote: > Hello the Camp! > October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be > holding our 3 "Geezer Camp" > Please come and camp with us and enjoy the > discussions with some of the long > time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we > have had a great time > getting together for some shooting and primitive > archery. > Ole > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 19 Jul 2002 06:46:42 -0600 on 7/18/02 5:02 PM, Phyllis and Don Keas at pdkeas@market1.com wrote: > Where is the camp and who qualifies for an old geezer? Me? Don > > On Friday, September 5, 1941, Ole Jensen wrote: >> Hello the Camp! >> October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be holding our 3 "Geezer Camp" >> Please come and camp with us and enjoy the discussions with some of the long >> time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we have had a great time >> getting together for some shooting and primitive archery. >> Ole >>> >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Don, The camp will be held at Fort Buenaventura in Ogden, Utah and yes you are invited. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 19 Jul 2002 06:48:02 -0600 on 7/18/02 8:08 PM, TerryTwoBear@aol.com at TerryTwoBear@aol.com wrote: > ole, where will the geezer camp be? > two bear > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Terry, At Fort Buenaventura in Ogden, Utah. Please come. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 19 Jul 2002 06:53:15 -0600 on 7/18/02 9:10 PM, Ronald Schrotter at mail4dog@yahoo.com wrote: > Ole, I understand that Boneyventure is closed. Where > do you plan on holding it this time? Dog > --- Ole Jensen wrote: >> Hello the Camp! >> October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be >> holding our 3 "Geezer Camp" >> Please come and camp with us and enjoy the >> discussions with some of the long >> time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we >> have had a great time >> getting together for some shooting and primitive >> archery. >> Ole >>> >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Dog, Fort Bueneventura is now run by Weber County and it's steering committee which Dick James and I are both members. The Committee has members of the AMM, ALRA, Free mountain Trapers. Dick and I are also on the planning Committee and developing a long range plan for a living historic park, things have never been in better shape. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1710 Recipe - Soap Date: 25 Jun 2002 00:43:30 -0500 I used 1/2 a bar of g.i. issue soap in the toe of a g.i. wool sock as a black jack to pacify Chinese solders we wanted as prisoners on two occasions in Korea in 1951/52. It worked fine. (Three-Coupes) ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 6:58 PM > Iron Burner, > > This period soap is done the same way it has always been made, in a large pan, cut into squares and left to cure, when cured it as hard as can be. I saw Buck Conner drive a square cut nail through a 1 inch pine board with a bar of the "1710" soap held in his palm, then wet it enough to make a lather to shave with. He told an interested lady at Ft. de Chartre that she could "colds cock her old man when he got out of hand with this soap and the cops would never find the instrument that did the job". > > Concho [HRD] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Historical Research & Development > "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 > Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ > Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ > > See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. > > > > > > On Wed, 17 Jul 2002 13:43:37 > Glenn Darilek wrote: > >But remember, a "correct" recipe is just a part of the deal. My wife > >brought home some lye soap she bought from an outfit that sold soap > >"like your ancestors used." It was sold in a Styrofoam cup for a mold! > > > >I don't know what was done in the mountaineer era, but my grandmother > >would pour the soap into a rectangular mold, and when it partially dried > >she would cut the soap into cakes. As it completely dried, the faces > >would shrink, leaving concave sides on the cakes, especially on the top. > >That was a far cry from a Styrofoam cup shape. BTW I was using the soap > >for shaving until my wife threw it out because it attracted ants. I > >thought it served the ants right to eat soap. The soap must have still > >had some of the fat that was not converted to soap. > > > >Glenn Darilek > >Iron Burner > > > > > >>Subject: 1710 Recipe - Soap. > > > >>I'm told the curing time because of the recipe (just discovered > >>this year in PA., in an early 1700's cookbook - 2nd edition dated > >>1710); is a lengthy 2 months. > > > > > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads > and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. > http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 19 Jul 2002 09:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Why, that should truly make it better than ever! Any plans for reconstructing the cabins as discussed last time? Dog, Hiv. #617 --- Ole Jensen wrote: > on 7/18/02 9:10 PM, Ronald Schrotter at > mail4dog@yahoo.com wrote: > > > Ole, I understand that Boneyventure is closed. > Where > > do you plan on holding it this time? Dog > > --- Ole Jensen wrote: > >> Hello the Camp! > >> October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be > >> holding our 3 "Geezer Camp" > >> Please come and camp with us and enjoy the > >> discussions with some of the long > >> time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we > >> have had a great time > >> getting together for some shooting and primitive > >> archery. > >> Ole > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------- > >>> hist_text list info: > >> > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >> > >> > >> ---------------------- > >> hist_text list info: > > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > > http://autos.yahoo.com > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > Dog, > Fort Bueneventura is now run by Weber County and > it's steering committee > which Dick James and I are both members. The > Committee has members of the > AMM, ALRA, Free mountain Trapers. Dick and I are > also on the planning > Committee and developing a long range plan for a > living historic park, > things have never been in better shape. > Ole > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes http://autos.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 19 Jul 2002 11:40:05 -0500 >Henry.... I don't think that's Rapine's web page. Ah....I'm also not sure you >mentioned if you wanted a round ball mould, or conical..... Round ball, of course, .735 dia. >I found their catalog, >Magpie Was that the correct web catalog? If not, what is? HBC *********************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University Box 43191 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 henry.b.crawford@ttu.edu 806/742-2442, ext 255 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.museum.ttu.edu ***Living History . . . Because It's There*** ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 19 Jul 2002 14:32:33 EDT In a message dated 7/19/02 9:41:10 AM, mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU writes: << Round ball, of course, .735 dia. >> OK....the mould you want is the "Primitive Bag Mould" in .735595 (as close to .735 as yer gonna get) and I'd suggest you call Rapine at (215) 697-5413 as I don't think they have a web site. <> Oops......wrong war..... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Jags... Date: 19 Jul 2002 14:44:49 EDT Klahowya boys, (and girls, Victoria) I was fondling my gun....er....rifle the other day, and got to wonderin how long "jags" have been around. You know.....the round button type with grooves that hold the patch while wiping the bore. I know the "tow worm" has been around for about as long as guns, but what about the jag..... and documentation counts. Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 14:58:44 EDT Klahowya....again, I've got one more question.... Has anyone seen or made a good (PC) crawdad trap? I know a jug of whisky will bring in the only Crawdads I know (Jerry)....but I'm interested in them little lobster types. I'm thinking they would be made like a fish trap....a willow basket of sorts, or mebbe out of some kind of netting. I'd like to build one (or two) for a camp up on Cooper Lake in September...... Ain't nothin quite like some hot, spicy, hor-de-ours in camp! Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: : Old Timers Camp Date: 19 Jul 2002 13:40:09 -0600 on 7/19/02 10:14 AM, Ronald Schrotter at mail4dog@yahoo.com wrote: > Why, that should truly make it better than ever! Any > plans for reconstructing the cabins as discussed last > time? Dog, Hiv. #617 > > --- Ole Jensen wrote: >> on 7/18/02 9:10 PM, Ronald Schrotter at >> mail4dog@yahoo.com wrote: >> >>> Ole, I understand that Boneyventure is closed. >> Where >>> do you plan on holding it this time? Dog >>> --- Ole Jensen wrote: >>>> Hello the Camp! >>>> October 4,5 and 6 The Poisen River Party will be >>>> holding our 3 "Geezer Camp" >>>> Please come and camp with us and enjoy the >>>> discussions with some of the long >>>> time members of the AMM. For the past 3 years we >>>> have had a great time >>>> getting together for some shooting and primitive >>>> archery. >>>> Ole >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------- >>>>> hist_text list info: >>>> >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------- >>>> hist_text list info: >>> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ >>> Do You Yahoo!? >>> Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes >>> http://autos.yahoo.com >>> >>> ---------------------- >>> hist_text list info: >> http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> Dog, >> Fort Bueneventura is now run by Weber County and >> it's steering committee >> which Dick James and I are both members. The >> Committee has members of the >> AMM, ALRA, Free mountain Trapers. Dick and I are >> also on the planning >> Committee and developing a long range plan for a >> living historic park, >> things have never been in better shape. >> Ole >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: > http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Dog, Two of the cabins have been re done but not verry well and the third cabin has yet to be done. Ole ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 15:07:36 -0500 Magpie, If'n you promise to always "suck the heads" here's how to catch mudbugs by the bucketful. A square of net about 3X3 to which you tie a rock to each corner and a large wad of beef melt in the center. Attach each corner to a rope which is gathered and attached to a single pull rope. Throw out to any good deep dropoffs and allow to sink to the bottom. Leave on the bottom till you figure its covered with crawdads, hoist it up and dump off in a 5 gallon pail, throw back in often enough you have 4 times more than you think you need. I find lakes the most productive. If you don't get'm with this rig they ain't there. John... At 01:58 PM 7/19/02, you wrote: >Klahowya....again, >I've got one more question.... Has anyone seen or made a good (PC) crawdad >trap? I know a jug of whisky will bring in the only Crawdads I know >(Jerry)....but I'm interested in them little lobster types. I'm thinking >they would be made like a fish trap....a willow basket of sorts, or mebbe out >of some kind of netting. I'd like to build one (or two) for a camp up on >Cooper Lake in September...... Ain't nothin quite like some hot, spicy, >hor-de-ours in camp! > >Magpie > >---------------------- "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on Earth... and what no just government should refuse." --Thomas Jefferson ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 15:54:20 -0600 Another favored bait where I come (New Orleans) from is chicken necks...and they often got them mudbugs with a net suspended from a large round ring. I don't really know if yankee crawfish have the same taste for chicken though. Sue Stone jandsstone@earthlink.net John Kramer wrote: > > Magpie, > > If'n you promise to always "suck the heads" here's how to catch mudbugs by > the bucketful. > > A square of net about 3X3 to which you tie a rock to each corner and a > large wad of beef melt in the center. Attach each corner to a rope which > is gathered and attached to a single pull rope. > > Throw out to any good deep dropoffs and allow to sink to the bottom. Leave > on the bottom till you figure its covered with crawdads, hoist it up and > dump off in a 5 gallon pail, throw back in often enough you have 4 times > more than you think you need. I find lakes the most productive. > > If you don't get'm with this rig they ain't there. > > John... > > At 01:58 PM 7/19/02, you wrote: > >Klahowya....again, > >I've got one more question.... Has anyone seen or made a good (PC) crawdad > >trap? I know a jug of whisky will bring in the only Crawdads I know > >(Jerry)....but I'm interested in them little lobster types. I'm thinking > >they would be made like a fish trap....a willow basket of sorts, or mebbe out > >of some kind of netting. I'd like to build one (or two) for a camp up on > >Cooper Lake in September...... Ain't nothin quite like some hot, spicy, > >hor-de-ours in camp! > > > >Magpie > > > >---------------------- > > "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every > government on Earth... and what no just government should > refuse." --Thomas Jefferson > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Mold for Brown Bess, .75 Cal. Date: 19 Jul 2002 16:54:55 -0700 << Round ball, of course, .735 dia. >> Henry, I shot a Bess for years using a .715 cast ball and a .020 ticking patch. It worked real good. Brother 'Bones' still shots that same gun and the same load very successfully. LP ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 18:58:35 EDT In a message dated 7/19/02 1:15:16 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: << A square of net about 3X3 to which you tie a rock to each corner and a large wad of beef melt in the center. Attach each corner to a rope which is gathered and attached to a single pull rope. >> I was wondering how you could get the net to lie flat on the bottom after ya threw it in.....John. I think what I'd do is mebbe make a 36" willow hoop, weight it enough to sink, and tie the lift ropes to extra netting on the sides. Then when ya lift it, the little critters wouldn't rocket off the sides.... Now....for a trap you could leave over night, I like Capt Lahti's idea of the willow basket like trap..... I've got lottsa willow here, so I'll build at least one shortly and try it. Looks like an all day job to make.... I borrowed a comercial metal mesh, crawdad trap from a buddy and put it in the stream below my place last night. Baited with a chicken neck, I caught ONE crawdad when I checked this afternoon! ....might have to defrost sumtin for dinner at this rate.... Sue wrote: <> Yup....they like chicken, bacon, and even a tin of cat food works I hear. I know them YANKEE crawdads do grow bigger and taste better..... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 19:08:10 -0500 It doesn't seem to matter the mudbugs get tangled in the netting trying to get to the melt. They keep trying straight into the bucket. I have a nearby bluff to drop a net over into fairly deep water, and it's never been a problem. Spreading the net out flat with a double willow bow couldn't hurt. Best craw-fishing is done late at night, with beer. John... At 05:58 PM 7/19/02, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/19/02 1:15:16 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: > ><< A square of net about 3X3 to which you tie a rock to each corner and a >large wad of beef melt in the center. Attach each corner to a rope which >is gathered and attached to a single pull rope. >> > >I was wondering how you could get the net to lie flat on the bottom after ya >threw it in.....John. I think what I'd do is mebbe make a 36" willow hoop, >weight it enough to sink, and tie the lift ropes to extra netting on the >sides. Then when ya lift it, the little critters wouldn't rocket off the >sides.... > > >Magpie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 17:28:28 -0700 "...Best craw-fishing is done late at night, with beer..." Is the beer for you or the crawdads?? Inquiring minds NEED to know... Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 19:52:13 -0500 Now that's one of the dark secrets we're not allowed to tell. Now imagine you're out at a lake, late at night with a case of cold ones, what are you going to do? First instinct is probably right -- unless you're wierd. John... At 07:28 PM 7/19/02, you wrote: >"...Best craw-fishing is done late at night, with beer..." > > >Is the beer for you or the crawdads?? > > > >Inquiring minds NEED to know... > >Black Knife ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "A free people ought . . . to be armed . . ." --George Washington, speech of January 7, 1790, printed in the Boston Independent Chronicle, January 14, 1790. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 21:27:39 -0400 --" unless you're wierd." John... He is.. D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: crawdad traps Date: 19 Jul 2002 23:41:15 -0700 "...--" unless you're wierd." John... He is.. D..." HEY! I resemble that remark!! I'll have you know that I rise every morning with all the other weird people, and then kneel and face Ohio, where our King lives,surrounded by fire, smoke and hot iron... But are we talking about American beer, or real beer?? Black Knife "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Conversion Tables Date: 21 Jul 2002 13:28:55 EDT --part1_160.10f85ba7.2a6c4957_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the cross-posting, but I can't remember which of these lists had this thread: To those who were looking a while back... PC Magazine has a free utility this month called TapeCalc 2. This contains a set of conversion tables for Storage, Teperature, Time, Volume, Weight, etc, AND also contains a calculator that prints a tape of your steps on the screen, which can then be printed out for a hard copy. Here's the link.... TapeCalc 2: Tape Your Calculations Barney --part1_160.10f85ba7.2a6c4957_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the cross-posting, but I can't remember which of these lists had this thread:

To those who were looking a while back...   PC Magazine has a free utility this month called TapeCalc 2.  This contains a set of conversion tables for Storage, Teperature, Time, Volume, Weight, etc, AND also contains a calculator that prints a tape of your steps on the screen, which can then be printed out for a hard copy.

Here's the link....   TapeCalc 2: Tape Your Calculations

Barney --part1_160.10f85ba7.2a6c4957_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Soap and Hygiene - and more . . . Date: 21 Jul 2002 15:05:32 EDT In a message dated 7/16/02 3:04:23 PM, pat_quilter@qscaudio.com writes: << . . . .But, if it was hot enough to relish a dip in the creek, I imagine they did so. There are also some comments to going months without washing, hair matted, etc, which also must have been somewhat exceptional. Living outdoors around campfires, one pretty much gets used to various smells. Anyone who has cleaned a game animal realizes that your hands get rather gamy smelling and it's not that easy to wash off, even with soap. All that said, if they had soap, it assume it would have been the usual preparation made with lye and wood ashes>> Soap for washing and for shaving was included in the manifests of trade goods, but . . . . Your constitution and mine and that of others in and out of the woods today is noticably different from those of the original trappers. I have seen Korean children drink gutter water that would put you and me and every G.I. in that country in a very serious health situation. If you read the stories about the events leading up to the Bataan Death March you will read that nearly everyone was sick and that is why the survival was so bad. Those that could not keep up were killed, but the REASON they were sick was hygene. Retreating American troops - still under military discipline - used latrines and covered garbage, but the Filipinos did not. Insects in abundance quickly spread disease from the filth to the troops and the results is history. Something else you may want to read is the biography of Plenty-Coups of the Crows. He tells (through the interpreter) that bathing was done frequently and in all seasons. The reason being that odors can give away the presence of a person to both game and enemy. Trappers learned a lot from the Indians but did not always heed what they learned. It seems that those who did, however, had as better survival rate. I cannot say - nor can anyone on this list - what these 18th - 19th century people thought, or very much about what they actually did. And by nature they varied in their choices through a full spectrum of possibilities. My feeling is that to state they "did this", "would have done this", and expecially, "they thought this . . . " is dealing in fantasy. For what it's worth. . . . Richard James Richard James ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Outdoor Bathing Date: 21 Jul 2002 17:05:28 -0600 (MDT) When I was a young lad of 18 myself and a friend took a 3-month winter trapping canoe trip. I bathed exactly one time in those 3 months. The river was so cold I got an ice cream headache so bad I thought I was going to die! Did we smell? Well, my partner could easily tell (with his nose) when I got out of my bag in the pitch dark tent! My nose wasn’t as keen as his. We did wash our face and hands occasionally and took 1 bar of Fels Naphta soap along and most of it came back home with us. I’d do it a lot differently now. I’d heat up water and take a bucket bath at least weekly whether I needed it our not. I always told my wife “You can’t really appreciate a hot bath or shower until you go a week (or 6 weeks) without one!” ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Outdoor Bathing Date: 21 Jul 2002 18:34:16 -0500 There is a humourous account of swimming/bathing/plunge in the Recollections of William Craig involving Joe Walker diving head first into 4 feet of blue mud. He didn't come up happy. http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/craig.html John... >---------------------- Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Summertime trapping & a bath! Date: 21 Jul 2002 18:35:45 -0600 (MDT) Some trapper journal excerpts concerning summertime trapping and checking traps then taking a bath! “August 2d (1835) we forded the Yellow Stone with some difficulty to the south side……….. We stopped in this valley until the 20th The Trappers being continually employed in hunting and trapping beaver..” “We stopped at this place trapping until the 3d of August (1836)” “June 18 (1837) we left Pierr’s hole and crossed the mountain to Jackson’s big hole……..21st traveled down the river to Gray’s river and set traps We remained hunting the streams……..until the 28 of June” Osborn Russell and his companions traveled just four more days till July2nd to a supposed rendezvous site “where we expected to find the Rendezvous” but found only a large band of buffalo. “On the 20th of July the meeting (rendezvous) broke up and the parties again dispersed for the fall hunt” A fall hunt commencing in July! Summers are short here in the Rockies, got to make hay while the sun shines. “We staid and trapped until the 29th (July) Then we started back to the Gros vent fork where found the Camp consisting of about 60 men under the direction of Mr.Dripps James Bridger Pilot”. The best excerpt from Russell’s journal includes trapping and bathing! “(August 1839) 28th after visiting my traps I returned to camp……I took my rifle and sauntered down to the shore of the Lake…….(the day being very warm) I took a bath in the lake for probably half an hour and returned to camp….” Russell’s journal is of course considered by most to be the best record of an individual trappers time in beaver country of the west. It does include many accounts of trapping in prime fur time as well. Ogden’s account in Snake Country Journal also includes several accounts of trapping in a very hot time of the year. “April 16 (1827) From our traps not one beaver. We have certainly cleaned the ground (I assume this phrase to mean trapped out). Apr.22 His (McKay and party) success compared to us is nearly double, amounting to 735 Bers (beaver) & Otters taken in two small streams, both which they clean’d (trapped out). I have every reason to be satisfied with our returns which now amounts to 2230 Br. (beaver) & Otters.” “June 28. The trappers not averaging more than 100 beaver each….June 30, All our traps being in the water we did not raise Camp. Our traps were visited, two stolen with beaver in them. Its galling we cannot secure one of these villains to make an example of…..” “July 4. We have but 40 traps and two again broke in the jaws. July 11. Trap stolen…. The Beaver was taken out of the trap……July 12 Loss of two traps, one carried off by a beaver and the other stolen by Indians with a beaver in it. It is rather surprising, from the number of traps these wretches have stolen, they cannot contrive to take a beaver out without destroying the Trap……” An excellent account of trapping fur in hot weather, July 4 is usually really hot everywhere in the lower 48. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Jugs and a Slow Death Date: 21 Jul 2002 18:46:20 -0600 (MDT) Madeira Wine and Port Wines are historically correct in any place, camp, era and function across the country. They're pretty good too. Our Fore Fathers couldn't be wrong. I drink it warm always and its fine. Fort Union served chilled Madeira on ice at formal meals (they had a ice house) I've had Blandy's Madeira wine (founded in 1812) from the island of Madeira and found California madeira (Paul Masson) to be better tasting and much cheaper($5.50 vs $20.). Just remember the old German pharase "Drinking is a slow death, but who wants to rush it" Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Soap and Hygiene - and more . . . Date: 21 Jul 2002 21:08:16 -0700 This is a good point Dick, I do research for the Pennsylvania Historical Society, in my research of hunters/outdoorsman/exployers of colonial times in PA and NY. I have found accounts/journals of professional hunters and men of the woods writing that bathing on a regular schedule increased their success in taking game, moving around local natives (Indians) and others undetected, as did not smoking tobacco. They felt that odors whether human or as that of tobacco were very important if not present to having a better survival rate in these questionable times. Their idea of scheduled bathing was once a week in cold weather (probably when coming into the settlements) and as often as possible in warm weather (streams being warmer in summer). Buck Conner had an article about a prof. hunter from Pottsville PA in the T&LR magazine a few years ago that stated this hunter would come in on Sat. to handle business for the game collected during that week, leaving on Sun. evening to go back out into his woods. I believe this is what "scheduling" is referring to in many of the accounts read, being woodsmen, hunters, scouts, etc. - they came in and handled business, made reports and got resupplied for the next outing, at that time they bathed. Even today a good bow hunter does everything possible to stop body odor, special washing soap for them and their clothing and most do not smoke in their hunting clothes or get near a camp fire, again the odor of anything un-natural to the animals and others is a "give-away" problem. Later Concho. ----------------- > >Something else you may want to read is the biography of Plenty-Coups of the Crows. He tells (through the interpreter) that bathing was done frequently and in all seasons. The reason being that odors can give away the presence of a person to both game and enemy. Trappers learned a lot from the Indians........ > >For what it's worth. . . . >Richard James > >Richard James > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Hunt" Subject: MtMan-List: buckskin report Date: 22 Jul 2002 11:31:22 -0400 If anyone is interested I have about 116 issues, (give or take) of the buckskin report, blackpowder report, blackpowder cartridge report. Will sell for $100 or best offer. Could be duplicate issues. Will not look thru for individual issues, or single sales. Sell all as a lot. NOT INTERESTED IN TRADES ! I am thinning out my plunder. Will post other things as I get to them. Buyer pays shipping. Will ship postage collect. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: capote pattern Date: 22 Jul 2002 15:47:14 EDT --part1_51.2152af35.2a6dbb42_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list, I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical patterns of today. I have made several capotes from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input. thanks frank sablan Odessa, texas --part1_51.2152af35.2a6dbb42_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello list,
I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical patterns of today.  I have made several capotes from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input.

thanks
frank sablan
Odessa, texas --part1_51.2152af35.2a6dbb42_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Windwalker Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capote pattern Date: 22 Jul 2002 19:12:27 -0400 On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:47:14 EDT, JOAQUINQS@aol.com wrote: >Hello list, >I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed >capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more= correct >pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with= the >arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and= having >more of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather= than >the straight cut of the typical patterns of today. I have made >several capotes from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has= a >pattern of my description or a place for me to obtain one I= would >appreciate any info and input. > >thanks >frank sablan >Odessa, texas Have you thought of Northwest Traders? -- Windwalker, windwalker@fastmail.fm on 07/22/2002 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: capote pattern Date: 22 Jul 2002 17:24:57 -0700
Have you checked out the Mountain's sketch books (vol 1 & 2) and the voyager's sketchbook?  There are many different coat patterns like you described, made from varying materials.  hardtack
ps to Windwalker, northwest trader is Paul Mueller.  <s>
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 7/22/02 8:47:14 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: capote pattern

Hello list,
I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical patterns of today.  I have made several capotes from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input.

thanks
frank sablan
Odessa, texas

 
--- Randal Bublitz
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
we are Borrowing it from our Children
 
 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capote pattern Date: 22 Jul 2002 23:27:58 EDT --part1_a5.2a9a3d27.2a6e273e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i will pull those books out and look, has anyone made one from those spec.s, thanks for the info frank --part1_a5.2a9a3d27.2a6e273e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i will pull those books out and look, has anyone made one from those spec.s,

thanks for the info
frank --part1_a5.2a9a3d27.2a6e273e_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capote pattern Date: 22 Jul 2002 20:55:35 -0700
Frank,    I haven't, but wish I'd have checked them out when I made my capote.  I used the standard NW traders pattern for a caped canoe capote.  It Is a shorter capote, no fringe, and has a cape and coller- rather than a hood.  I am satisfied with it.  I wanted a less cumbersome capote.  I made it from a Whitney 'horse blanket'.  This is a smaller, thicker blanket.  The coat comes to mid thigh, and doesn't have the bothersome fringe, etc... on it.  I'll send you a pic.  If anyone else wants pics, let me know..... I'll send to you too.  I only wish it were a bit more 'tailored', as opposed to the square cut style.  Oh well, live and learn.   hardtack 
----- Original Message -----

i will pull those books out and look, has anyone made one from those spec.s,

thanks for the info
frank

 
--- Randal Bublitz
we have NOT inherited the Earth from our fathers,
we are Borrowing it from our Children
 
 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 24 Jul 2002 16:54:09 -0600 Hello, I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day: Booshway - name and address camping info - costs etc. Thanks for any help - it's greatly appreciated. Steve ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 25 Jul 2002 00:58:09 EDT --part1_113.14ead30b.2a70df61_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/24/2002 3:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbanks@wyoming.com writes: > I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day: > Steve, It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, 2002. Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307) 782-3842. Barney --part1_113.14ead30b.2a70df61_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/24/2002 3:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbanks@wyoming.com writes:


I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day:


Steve, It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, 2002.  Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307) 782-3842.

Barney --part1_113.14ead30b.2a70df61_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: fleas & lice Date: 25 Jul 2002 07:53:24 -0500 I have read some of the accounts of trappers putting their clothes over ant hills in the spring to rid them of lice. But I have always doubted the necessity of waiting until spring to get rid of the critters. An acquaintance that lives in an 8000ft. elevation community in Colorado has told me that fleas and lice cannot survive the altitude and dry air there and especially not the cold in winter. Admittedly, that is second hand info but, if true, trappers in the Rockies would not have been bothered by the critters. And fleas have a very limited temperature range in which they can survive. Cold will kill them and their eggs. At one time our home got an infestation of fleas from a pet. We tried everything to get rid of them with no success. Until one day in the winter I simply turned off the furnace and opened the windows. We left the house for about twelve hours. In that time everything, furniture, carpets, etc. got down to about 30 degrees. From then on no more fleas. I can see where old Titus Bass might have got his nickname Scratch in the warmer, wetter region of St. Louis and the river country but in the mountains all one would have to do is take off their clothes for a couple hours and no more fleas or lice. Right? Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fleas & lice Date: 25 Jul 2002 09:55:58 EDT Against a living body the temperature would not fall to below a livable range. In fact when we catch beaver under ice, and the do come out from under the ice, they are almost always have a health population of fleas. TrapRJoe ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gene Hickman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fleas & lice Date: 25 Jul 2002 09:21:55 -0600 I don't think that very many trapper's wintered at or above 8,000 feet. Many of the original winter camp locations I am familiar with are much lower than that. Gene "Bead Shooter" Hickman >...An acquaintance that lives in an 8000ft. elevation> >community in Colorado has told me that fleas and lice> >cannot survive the altitude and dry air there and especially> >not the cold in winter. Admittedly, that is second hand info> >but, if true, trappers in the Rockies would not have been> >bothered by the critters....> > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, Arkansas ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Date: 25 Jul 2002 14:14:52 -0700 Thanks to everyone who contributed info on bathing,. Most enlightening and informative. The notion of not smoking is a revelation, and something to take into account in my novel, since hero smokes a clay pipe. Maybe he'll have to go cold turket during the trapping season, eh? Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: MtMan-List: Re Fleas and Lice Date: 25 Jul 2002 15:34:51 -0700 Considering that this was a somewhat delicate subject, the limited number of references to fleas and lice take on added significance. All of us have seen complaints in pioneer and other frontier journals. Lewis and Clark noted flea attacks while camping at certain dismantled Indian villages in the Columbia river basin. They remarked that the plank dwellings had been dismantled and pinned under water in an apparent attempt to kill off "the sagacious critters". That this situation was worthy of note indicates they were not ALWAYS infested (and also supports the notion that fleas survive in lower elevations). Lewis Garrard remarks humorously at a newbie's complaints about being bitten, and also noted elsewhere that he had become "not at all fastidious" which I take to indicate resignation to vermin. Various remedies such as putting clothes on anthills or even boiling shirts etc indicate that fleas were a known problem, otherwise, why make note of what to do about it? Modern people who live on the ground for prolonged periods get lice unless they maintain modern hygienic habits such as daily bathing and frequent laundering. These were not the conditions on the frontier. Sailors battled vermin. The British navy of the period were fairly vermin-free due to regular shipboard scrubbing, but prisoners or local traders were often lousy. At the risk of engaging in informed supposition (which is not quite the same as fantasy) I would feel safe in assuming that trappers (and Indians) were frequently if not typically infested with fleas and lice. Like many other chronic annoyances, one probably tolerated it to a point and then did something about it. I also have a strong suspicion that smoked buckskin clothing is somewhat less vermin-friendly than cloth, and the Indian style of dress probably provided somewhat fewer places for bugs to hide. Pat Quilter ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Fleas, lice, crabs and Indians bath's Date: 25 Jul 2002 19:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Charles Larpentaur in his wonderful book "Forty Years a Fur Trader on the Upper Missouri" gives a reference to being invited to sleep with some indians in their lodge and regretting it almost instantly after stretching out in their bed as he became infested with lice. He became infested which means he must not have had them before. Lice is much worse than fleas as fleas are easily picked off. I've worked in a skinning room were fleas were jumping off of dead critters like a ship going down! They never seemed to be a problem.(for me anyway) I have had lots of fleas on me but never lice. I've seen lice on kids heads before and they are much worse to get rid of. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems were lice or crabs? Not so much fleas. A mean trick to do was collect a dozen or more fleas and put them in a small vile. Then when you run into a guy you don't like at the bar that night you would empty the vile on his back discreetly as you walked by. Then sit back at your table and watch the show! I never did that but know a guy who did. As soon as a trapper killed another flea laden animal such as a wolf, coyote and especially a fox he would get more fleas. Usually these fleas look for another host, like your dog. Just carrying a freshly dead coyote or especially a red fox a short distance and you have to wipe the fleas off of the arm you were using to carry it. This is done every minute until you get to your destination or the animal runs out of fleas. Beaver can indeed have fleas but they are water fleas, altogether another type of flea. I don't think they survive on land. I only find them on a small portion of our beaver here in Montana, say perhaps 10% at most. I've never seen one go to a human or any other land animal for that matter. Gene is correct. Not many Mountain Men would ever winter at 8000' feet! That altitude is only free of snow a short time each year. From what I've read they usually found a nice protected river valley with lots of grass or cottonwoods to feed their horses, and made "winter quarters". Or they wintered at a fort.(or right outside the fort anyway) I read a journal account on Indians bathing were the trapper said that indians were in the water daily in warm months and never went near it when the water got icy. I'm sure they were as grubby as white guys and I'm sure some people stayed cleaner than others just like today. Excuse me I have to go take a shower now. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Date: 25 Jul 2002 19:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Geri, What did you hear about smoking? Osborn Russell gives several accounts of smoking his pipe in his journal (1834-43) 2/3 of Lewis & Clark's men used tobaccy either smoking or chewing it. The Mandans also grew smoking tobacco (indian tobacco not white man) What did you hear about smoking? Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Was Fleas, lice, crabs and Indians bath's - now Winter Quarters Date: 25 Jul 2002 22:08:25 EDT For a terriffic article on winter camps, you all should check out the Spring 2002 edition of Montana Magazine. It's Vol 52, No. 1, if that helps. Kerry Oman, a PhD candidate who got his master degree under Fred Gowans and is now studying under David Weber at SMU did a terriffic job on this paper. He presented it at the Fur Trade Symposium at Pinedale several years back and now it is finally in print. The article received the Merrill G. Burlingame-K. Ross Toole Award for best student manuscript in 2001. If you can't find a copy, The Museum of the Mountain Man in Pinedale, WY sells it and they can be reached at 307-367-4101. Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: capote pattern Date: 26 Jul 2002 00:52:14 -0600 ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2343E.AF0BD480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank, Having made close to 600 capotes in my years and a capote maker by Rendez= vous trade, I can tell you that all patterns are basically the same. Wha= t makes each one unique is the amount of tailoring and customizing a pers= on does to it. Any pattern can be modified to what you are talking about= . However, folks get a little shy about cutting into a $140 blanket if t= hey don't have a lot of experience. Make a paper pattern first and the o= l' "measure twice, cut once" helps to watch for mistakes. The biggest th= ing about a capote pattern is that as long as you don't make a serious bl= under, the pattern is fairly forgiving. Let me know, off list, if I can be of further assistance. By the way, Ci= ndy is still looking for a good material for the vest you wanted. Later, Mike =20 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 1:52 PM Hello list, I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we discussed capote pa= tterns, in our discussion he was researching a more correct pattern of ca= pote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the arms being slightly = curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more of a cuff , and the= waist being abit more flared rather than the straight cut of the typical= patterns of today. I have made several capotes from paul muellers patte= rn , but if anyone has a pattern of my description or a place for me to o= btain one I would appreciate any info and input. thanks frank sablan Odessa, texas Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http:/= /explorer.msn.com ------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2343E.AF0BD480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Frank,
<= DIV>Having made close to 600 capotes in my years and a capote maker by Re= ndezvous trade, I can tell you that all patterns are basically the same.&= nbsp; What makes each one unique is the amount of tailoring and customizi= ng a person does to it.  Any pattern can be modified to what you are= talking about.  However, folks get a little shy about cutting into = a $140 blanket if they don't have a lot of experience.  Make a paper= pattern first and the ol' "measure twice, cut once" helps to watch = for mistakes.  The biggest thing about a capote pattern is that as l= ong as you don't make a serious blunder, the pattern is fairly forgiving.=
Let me know, off list, if I can be of further assistance= .  By the way, Cindy is still looking for a good material for t= he vest you wanted.
Later,
Mike  
<= DIV> 
=
----- Original Message -----
From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com
Sent: Mo= nday, July 22, 2002 1:52 PM
To:<= /B> hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: MtMan-List: capote pattern
 
Hello list,
I have spoken to wes housler a few months ago, and we= discussed capote patterns, in our discussion he was researching a more c= orrect pattern of capote very similar to the great lakes capot, with the = arms being slightly curved and the length being mid-thigh and having more= of a cuff , and the waist being abit more flared rather than the straigh= t cut of the typical patterns of today.  I have made several capotes= from paul muellers pattern , but if anyone has a pattern of my descripti= on or a place for me to obtain one I would appreciate any info and input.=

thanks
frank sablan
Odessa, texas

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Expl= orer download : http://explorer.msn.c= om

------=_NextPart_001_0002_01C2343E.AF0BD480-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Date: 26 Jul 2002 13:43:38 EDT Most animals are courious. Not associating the sent of smoke with people, it might have helped. You might be surprised at just how many animals are caught using ladies perfume. TrapRJoe ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Duncan Macready Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Date: 27 Jul 2002 18:53:02 +1200 TrapRJoe wrote: You might be surprised at just how many animals are caught using ladies perfume. Fair enough , a lot of ladies have been caught using animal furs. Cheers Dunc ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Date: 27 Jul 2002 07:11:15 -0700 Klahowya My Friends; "You might be surprised at just how many animals are caught using ladies perfume." Hey, Joe How do you find out??? Do you find the bottles in their dens or do they just smell really perty when you trap them???? ROFLMAO PoorBoy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Banks" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger Date: 27 Jul 2002 16:46:43 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2358D.3015EF80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barney, Thanks for the help. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: LivingInThePast@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:58 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft. Bridger In a message dated 7/24/2002 3:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, = sbanks@wyoming.com writes: I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this Labor Day: Steve, It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, = 2002. Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307) = 782-3842. Barney=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2358D.3015EF80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Barney,
Thanks for the help.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 LivingInThePast@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 = 10:58=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ft.=20 Bridger

In a = message dated=20 7/24/2002 3:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbanks@wyoming.com=20 writes:


I'm looking for info on the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous this = Labor=20 Day:


Steve,=20 It's scheduled for Labor Day weekend, August 31 - September 2, = 2002. =20 Contact info is The Fort Bridger Rendezvous Association @ (307)=20 782-3842.

Barney ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C2358D.3015EF80-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Fleas & High Elevation Date: 27 Jul 2002 16:12:43 -0700 Moving from sea level to a mile high city, I can testify fleas are rare, altho' my vet says dogs that live near water sources are bothered by them. Have never seen lice around, tho.' Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: BeaverBoy-Smoking Date: 27 Jul 2002 16:16:20 -0700 What I read on a previous digest of this list was that the scent of smoking on a hunter would warn off game. Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: TrapRjoe - Smoking Date: 27 Jul 2002 16:19:25 -0700 Don't know about animals using ladies perfumes, but I did have a cat once that loved men's cologne. Geri D ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fleas & High Elevation Date: 27 Jul 2002 22:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Geri, Go shoot a coyote or fox and layed it nearby you at that altitude and I'm willing to bet that you'll find it will come to life with fleas. I have never met a coyote or a fox yet that didn't have fleas and I have trapped and bought whole dead dogs from all altitudes here in Montana and Wyoming. Red fox are the most flea infested critter on God's green earth. The altitude may play a small factor in some pest but fleas can travel from warm host to warm host without ever touching the ground. I'm no vet and I didn't ask a vet about it but I've bought hundreds of dead coyotes and fox in my ten years as a furbuyer and all the freshly dead ones had fleas. Ask any trapper or furbuyer, don't take my word for it. Sincerely, Beaverboy Moving from sea level to a mile high city, I can testify fleas are > rare, altho' my vet says dogs that live near water sources are bothered > by them. Have never seen lice around, tho.' > > Geri D > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: The wind is everything and Marijuana Date: 27 Jul 2002 22:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Everyone knows scent is crucial in hunting and trapping but you can stink to high heaven and smoke a cigar (though I don't recommend it) while hunting, just watch the wind. The wind is everything. I don't think it is possible for a human to get their bodies clean enough to avoid detection by long nosed critters. Drug dogs at airports can smell dope wrapped up in triple bagies inside of leather luggage as it passes by on a conveyor, their sense of smell is so keen. It's amazing sometimes that we can catch coyotes at all but special measures are taken. We've set beaver traps as the beaver swam around splashing their tails watching us set them and caught them a half hour later, other times they are hard to catch. Here in the wide open country (or anywhere), if you have the wind in your face and the sun to your back on a stalk you got it almost made. You guys have a nice weekend, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: pictures for sale Date: 28 Jul 2002 10:26:16 -0500 Time to reduce volume of collected 'stuff' around the house. I am selling two muzzle loading/buckskining pictures. One is a 20"X26" nicely framed print of SHOOTING FOR THE BEEF by Bingham. The other is an unframed, autographed, print of a pen and ink drawing BROTHER WOLF by Ballard. It is about 14"X28" and features a mountain man with his rifle standing beside his pet wolf. Write me offlist for details. (p.s. "details" does not necessarily mean money, I will consider a trade for other 'goodies') Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The wind is everything and Marijuana Date: 28 Jul 2002 20:54:29 -0700 --- On Sat, 27 Jul 2002 22:44:59 beaverboy wrote: I don't think it is possible for a human to get their bodies clean enough to avoid detection by long nosed critters.......... > ---------------- Beaverboy, For years the bowhunter have used Baking Soda to cut the human odor by rubbing on themselves and their clothing, then using different animal urines on a strip of cloth tied to their boot lases. Now there are several makers of a product that cuts the odor and the shine out of clothing with a special soap and spray, plus a body soap and shampoo. Saw a demo on this stuff and the drug dogs really get messed up with smelling it, will probably be taken off the market because of that one reason is what we have been told here at Penn State. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. _____________________________________________________ Supercharge your e-mail with a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and NoTaglines --> LYCOS MAIL PLUS. http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The wind is everything Date: 29 Jul 2002 00:44:47 EDT --part1_19b.603dc64.2a76223f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Concho Sorry to say but all that stuff is made for one reason and that is to get you to buy it. For when you start walking or doing any thing that causes your body to warm up you give of odor and they can smell ya. I have had my best luck with just rubbing elk urine on me when hunting but ya got to do it regularly or your stink will come through. It is hard to imagine that a persons smell is stronger then that stuff but it is. So your best bet is to watch the wind and move slow. I know it sounds a bit bad but after a while ya get use to the smell. Ya do get some odd looks form the folks in town when ya stop in a store to get something after a day of hunting. More so then I usually get in my buckskins it must be the Elk perfume. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_19b.603dc64.2a76223f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Concho
Sorry to say but all that stuff is made for one reason and that is to get you to buy it. For when you start walking or doing any thing that causes your body to warm up you give of odor and they can smell ya. I have had my best luck with just rubbing elk urine on me when hunting but ya got to do it regularly or your stink will come through. It is hard to imagine that a persons smell is stronger then that stuff but it is. So your best bet is to watch the wind and move slow. I know it sounds a bit bad but after a while ya get use to the smell.  Ya do get some odd looks form the folks in town when ya stop in a store to get something after a day of hunting. More so then I usually get in my buckskins it must be the Elk perfume.
See ya on the trail
Crazy Cyot --part1_19b.603dc64.2a76223f_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fleas & High Elevation Date: 29 Jul 2002 01:30:38 EDT --part1_7c.2b9571f6.2a762cfe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Beaverboy > > That be a fact Fox be about the worst, heck ya ain't even got to mess with > the critter him self just go messin a round in front of one of their den's > and your sure to find some fleas on ya, they be lousy with them. Was it you > that was talking about water fieas on Beaver now that's a new one on me, > never notice any thing like that before. Cores can't say as I've looked for > parasites of beaver If they ain't jumpin on me who's lookin for them. see ya on the trap line Crazy Cyot > > > > > > > > > > > > --part1_7c.2b9571f6.2a762cfe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


Beaverboy

That be a fact Fox be about the worst, heck ya ain't even got to mess with the critter him self just go messin a round in front of one of their den's and your sure to find some fleas on ya, they be lousy with them. Was it you that was talking about water fieas on Beaver now that's a new one on me, never notice any thing like that before. Cores can't say as I've looked for parasites of beaver If they ain't jumpin on me who's lookin for them.


see ya on the trap line
Crazy Cyot














--part1_7c.2b9571f6.2a762cfe_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Water fleas Date: 29 Jul 2002 06:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Cyot, Yep, some beaver have water fleas. They're large reddish color vermin. Different color, size and shape than black fleas. They don't go to humans or at least not me. As I said I only see them on about 10% or even only 5% of the beaver I trap here in Montana. They don't seem to jump and appear sluggish. I don't know if they are aquatic, I think they breath air trapped in the beaver fur. The water not ever penetrating past the guard hairs on all water critters. Never seen them on otters or rats just beaver occasionally. I never look for vermin, it seeks me out! Fleas don't seem to like me but they sure liked my friend Don. I think some peoples bodies attract more vermin than others. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking Trappers Date: 29 Jul 2002 14:16:55 EDT You use it. You also use many other smells. Some work, some don't/\. TrapRJoe ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: smoking Date: 29 Jul 2002 13:40:34 -0500 Geri D said, I don't know for a fact if that is true or not. But, I have a friend who has been hunting all his life. He is essentially a non-smoker. But for over fifty years he has taken cigars into the woods while deer hunting and he has always filled his tags using ml, modern and bow. He claims deer are curious and come to investigate this unfamiliar odor. I dunno. Thets wat he sez. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: MtMan-List: Crass Commercial Posting Date: 29 Jul 2002 14:57:01 -0400 Excuse me for cross posting. I just put up a few new knives and a couple of axes/hawks on the site. http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Thanks Dennis "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Beaverboy/Fleas Date: 29 Jul 2002 11:58:38 -0700 Perhaps I should have said fleas are rare on my dogs up here at elevation. They of course, have the advantage of being bathed on a somewhat regular basis, whereas our local coyotes and fox may not. Speaking of that, our national forest had been closed for two months due to fire danger. Now it is open. I've walked my dogs out there every day for the last 13 years, and have always respected the wildlife, etc., but after just two months the coyotes think they own the place. They've jumped my old dog once and twice followed behind us. Any suggestions other than a loud whistle, a strong walking stick and my .38 filled with snakeshot? Geri ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Packing in Date: 29 Jul 2002 12:02:36 -0700 Anyone know -- Back in the fur trapping days, did they use the same or similar wooden pack forms, "X" shape as they do now? And if so, what did they call them? Geri ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: off topic virus problem Date: 29 Jul 2002 14:17:57 -0500 Are: J.J. Adco, B. Shotwell, Christopher Wolf of Tuscon, AZ, or D. Duncan of Guntersville, AL members of this list? I receive several of the Klez virus from them daily. Fortunately my computer is protected but theirs apparently are not and they most likely are infecting many other people also. This virus sends e-mails without the knowledge of the computer owner. They need to take corrective action. Sorry for the off-topic subject but if they are members of this list everyone on it is at risk. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Punke, Michael W." Subject: MtMan-List: Follow Up on Hugh Glass Date: 29 Jul 2002 16:00:24 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2373A.938DADDD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several members of the list have asked for a "heads up" concerning my = recent novel, "The Revenant", based on the true story of frontiersman = Hugh Glass. I will be reading and signing the book at several locations = in the coming week: =20 -- Sundance, Utah: Wednesday, July 31st at 7:30 pm -- Denver, Colorado: Tattered Cover on Thursday, August 1st at 7:30 pm -- Torrington, Wyoming: Vandels on Saturday, August 3rd from 10am - = 12pm -- Scottsbluff, Nebraska: Copperfields on Sunday, August 4th from 1-3 = pm=20 Members of this group have been great in educating me about the fur = trade era. I would be very honored to meet any of you who might be in = the area. The Revenant will also be available at the upcoming = rendezvous' in Evanston and Fort Bridger, and of course is available at = Amazon.com Links to reviews are available below if you want a more independent = appraisal. YMOS -- Michael Punke Denver Post: = http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E28%257E696434,00.html Amazon: = http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786710276/qid=3D1027972348/sr=3D8= -1/ref=3Dsr_8_1/103-0580332-8043853 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C2373A.938DADDD Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Follow Up on Hugh Glass

Several members of the list have asked = for a "heads up" concerning my recent novel, "The = Revenant", based on the true story of frontiersman Hugh = Glass.  I will be reading and signing the book at several locations = in the coming week:

 
-- Sundance, Utah:  Wednesday, = July 31st at 7:30 pm
-- Denver, Colorado:  Tattered = Cover on Thursday, August 1st at 7:30 pm
-- Torrington, Wyoming:  Vandels = on Saturday, August 3rd from 10am - 12pm
-- Scottsbluff, Nebraska:  = Copperfields on Sunday, August 4th from 1-3 pm

Members of this group have been great = in educating me about the fur trade era.  I would be very honored = to meet any of you who might be in the area.  The Revenant will = also be available at the upcoming rendezvous' in Evanston and Fort = Bridger, and of course is available at Amazon.com

Links to reviews are available below if = you want a more independent appraisal.

YMOS -- Michael Punke

Denver Post:  http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E28%257E696434,00.ht= ml

Amazon:   http://www.amazon.com/exec/o= bidos/ASIN/0786710276/qid=3D1027972348/sr=3D8-1/ref=3Dsr_8_1/103-0580332-= 8043853



------_=_NextPart_001_01C2373A.938DADDD-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaverboy/Fleas Date: 29 Jul 2002 15:29:50 -0500 Geri, 1st replace the snake shot with +P JHP ammo in the .38. A 12 ga. with buckshot or a high power rifle is a better choice. A flint or percussion rifle can do as well. The dumbest thing you can do is wound (piss off) an animal. Kill a few and the others will back up, even if they're hungry. If you ain't up for killing ----when you have to----- stay out of the woods. Snake shot in a .38 ain't even much good on snakes. John... P.S. My old dog Jake grew up on the trail and never knew what fleas were until we moved to Misery. At 01:58 PM 7/29/02, you wrote: >Perhaps I should have said fleas are rare on my dogs up here at elevation. >They of course, have the advantage of being bathed on a somewhat regular >basis, whereas our local coyotes and fox may not. > >Speaking of that, our national forest had been closed for two months due to >fire danger. Now it is open. I've walked my dogs out there every day for the >last 13 years, and have always respected the wildlife, etc., but after just >two months the coyotes think they own the place. They've jumped my old dog >once and twice followed behind us. Any suggestions other than a loud >whistle, a strong walking stick and my .38 filled with snakeshot? > >Geri > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on Earth... and what no just government should refuse." --Thomas Jefferson ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Follow Up on Hugh Glass Date: 29 Jul 2002 17:48:56 EDT --part1_12d.14e1ee1d.2a771248_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael If you are going to be in Denver on Thursday and Torrington on Saturday you will go thru Fort Collins between the two maybe we could hook up and I could get a copy Mark #1849 "Roadkill" Loader Phone 970 484 0047 or 1-800-434-1749 --part1_12d.14e1ee1d.2a771248_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael
If you are going to be in Denver on Thursday and Torrington on Saturday you will go thru Fort Collins between the two maybe we could hook up and I could get a copy Mark #1849 "Roadkill" Loader
Phone 970 484 0047
or 1-800-434-1749 --part1_12d.14e1ee1d.2a771248_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaverboy/Fleas Date: 29 Jul 2002 22:01:46 EDT --part1_12a.14e54d93.2a774d8a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/29/2002 12:08:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes: > They've jumped my old dog > once and twice followed behind us. Any suggestions other than a loud > whistle, a strong walking stick and my .38 filled with snakeshot? > Air horns, like you get at sporting goods stores work great on everything from 'coons to bears. Had it recommended to me by a Ranger to use instead of bear (pepper) spray, and it works! And it's a heck of alot less irritating to the human senses! Barney --part1_12a.14e54d93.2a774d8a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/29/2002 12:08:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes:


They've jumped my old dog
once and twice followed behind us. Any suggestions other than a loud
whistle, a strong walking stick and my .38 filled with snakeshot?


Air horns, like you get at sporting goods stores work great on everything from 'coons to bears. Had it recommended to me by a Ranger to use instead of bear (pepper) spray, and it works! And it's a heck of alot less irritating to the human senses!     Barney  --part1_12a.14e54d93.2a774d8a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaverboy/Fleas Date: 29 Jul 2002 23:56:13 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 29 July 2002 2:58 pm, busterize wrote: > Perhaps I should have said fleas are rare on my dogs up here at elevati= on. > They of course, have the advantage of being bathed on a somewhat regula= r > basis, whereas our local coyotes and fox may not. > > Speaking of that, our national forest had been closed for two months du= e to > fire danger. Now it is open. I've walked my dogs out there every day fo= r > the last 13 years, and have always respected the wildlife, etc., but af= ter > just two months the coyotes think they own the place. They've jumped m= y > old dog once and twice followed behind us. Any suggestions other than a > loud whistle, a strong walking stick and my .38 filled with snakeshot? Snakeshot? Nope! Use a bullet and be done with it! There isn't a 'yote wo= rth=20 leavin alive, as far as I'm concerned. Fred - --=20 Never forget: At Microsoft, the engineering department are the=20 Ferengi... The marketing and legal departments are the Borg! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1GDl0ACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/utBPgCcDLd/jy/xRr13rURd+z/T4pR2 3FkAn2wzTZaFe2pqNC/ijOCVtYWRaX/B =3D0er1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: off topic virus problem Date: 29 Jul 2002 23:59:14 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 29 July 2002 3:17 pm, Frank Fusco wrote: > Are: J.J. Adco, B. Shotwell, Christopher Wolf of Tuscon, AZ, or D= =2E > Duncan of Guntersville, AL members of this list? > I receive several of the Klez virus from them daily. Fortunately my > computer is protected but theirs apparently are not and they most likel= y > are infecting many other people also. This virus sends e-mails without = the > knowledge of the computer owner. > They need to take corrective action. > Sorry for the off-topic subject but if they are members of this lis= t > everyone on it is at risk. > Frank G. Fusco > Mountain Home, Arkansas > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders NOT if you don't use anything MickySoft, you're not. :) Fred - --=20 Never forget: At Microsoft, the engineering department are the=20 Ferengi... The marketing and legal departments are the Borg! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1GDxIACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/uv8uQCdHigOrL7qL3qII6hEGojAHOzh mnAAnjhQwGIUOWdzYpBWEi0WAmQO80wM =3D1XnE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: The only good coyote...... Date: 29 Jul 2002 21:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Geri, If coyotes were following me on a hike and jumping my dog there would be dead coyotes laying around.(I just may wait till their hides were prime) I say shoot them with oo buckshot and if they run off howling thats just fine! A coyote is the only critter I have absolutely no sympathy for. They make a living out of killing and kill for fun too. Shoot and kill a couple and hang them up for the other coyotes to see. But I doubt if that would make a difference. You can also check them for fleas while your hanging them up! Just give it a big hug for a minute or 2. I'm sure they are getting cockier since Colorado outlawed trapping. Either shoot to kill now or wait till they come in your backyard. And don't worry about killing too many, we'll never run out of coyotes. Shoot Straight, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: smoking Date: 30 Jul 2002 00:03:04 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 29 July 2002 2:40 pm, Frank Fusco wrote: > Geri D said, > smoking > on a hunter would warn off game.> > > I don't know for a fact if that is true or not. But, I have a frien= d > who has been hunting all his life. He is essentially a non-smoker. But = for > over fifty years he has taken cigars into the woods while deer hunting = and > he has always filled his tags using ml, modern and bow. > He claims deer are curious and come to investigate this unfamiliar > odor. I dunno. Thets wat he sez. 'Have an old friend who's a pipe smoker. It's amazing that he's taken so = many=20 BIG bucks here in Central NY, while smoking a pipe. On one occassion, he=20 rattled in a nice buck for me. Fred - --=20 Never forget: At Microsoft, the engineering department are the=20 Ferengi... The marketing and legal departments are the Borg! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1GD/gACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/uucLgCcCon3SDD5v8PJMzANmJBjTi7J R3MAn3HUuEdFT0St3Gi6dTuqZCDbdlVd =3DJWqH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Apple Tobacco Date: 29 Jul 2002 22:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Fred, Your the second one to say they have a friend who kills nice bucks while smoking nice smelling tobaccy. I may have to give it a try this fall. Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apple Tobacco Date: 30 Jul 2002 00:30:39 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 30 July 2002 12:14 am, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > Fred, > Your the second one to say they have a friend who kills nice bucks > while smoking nice smelling tobaccy. I may have to give it a try this f= all. I've always taken to using the "special" soap to clean my hunting cloths,= and=20 special soap to wash with, etc., etc. I have to hunt on the ground becaus= e I=20 get an imbalance because of a hearing problem if off the ground, thus I h= ave=20 always taken "special" precautions before hunting.....in particular with = a=20 bow. Even after he rattled in that buck, I still take my precautions. :) Fred - --=20 Never forget: At Microsoft, the engineering department are the=20 Ferengi... The marketing and legal departments are the Borg! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1GFm8ACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/uvkwQCeK2LFOKsSydnmoDphXeks1Aok sJIAniNfCHzZhBWgfCu8Fxh2CdbbXVd0 =3DD/Zc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: No baking soda for me Date: 29 Jul 2002 22:43:59 -0600 (MDT) Fred, I bow hunt as well and hunt with my fusee which I found to be just as hard if not harder than bowhunting.(never a second shot) I never worry about my scent ever. I always pay attention to the wind and that is all. I have to use bug spray in the fall as the mosquitoes are so bad. Perhaps our whitetails here are not as sharp as yours but I think all whitetails are the same (Sharp!). I know the elk are good at circling to catch a scent. Maybe I've just been really lucky but we have a pretty steady wind out of the southwest and I make use of it. Good luck this fall, Beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fred A. Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: No baking soda for me Date: 30 Jul 2002 01:40:01 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 30 July 2002 12:43 am, beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: > Fred, > I bow hunt as well and hunt with my fusee which I found to be just a= s > hard if not harder than bowhunting.(never a second shot) I never worry > about my scent ever. I always pay attention to the wind and that is all= =2E I > have to use bug spray in the fall as the mosquitoes are so bad. > Perhaps our whitetails here are not as sharp as yours but I think al= l > whitetails are the same (Sharp!). I know the elk are good at circling t= o > catch a scent. Maybe I've just been really lucky but we have a pretty > steady wind out of the southwest and I make use of it. I've been winded MANY times, but here the wind shifts a lot. My favorite=20 "stand," and here again, it's on the ground, is almost impossible to hunt= =20 without "special precautions." The wind shifts constantly, but I have dee= r as=20 close as 9' and it's rare to take a shot over 30 yards. > Good luck this fall, You too! Fred - --=20 Never forget: At Microsoft, the engineering department are the=20 Ferengi... The marketing and legal departments are the Borg! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj1GJrEACgkQeNJ3p8sZ/utIlQCbBlOz7vh/6HizS/k+RuhTFPTs k9QAnisai+0itCr/ibHCnQa79quzqeL8 =3D0Pch -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Punke, Michael W." Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Follow Up on Hugh Glass Date: 30 Jul 2002 09:53:45 -0400 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C237D0.8585F1AB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark -- Thanks for your note concerning The Revenant. I will be zooming = past Fort Collins, but unfortunately it will be very late on Thursday = night, hell bent for Wyoming. I do have a suggestion, though, if you're = interested. I noticed that the Tattered Cover's web page offers a way = to order a signed book (click on tatteredcover.com, then "TC events", = then "August 1", then "order signed copy"). You order the book, which = is waiting for me to sign at Tattered Cover. I assume they can then = ship. I don't know if this is of interest, but did want to at least = mention it. Thanks again for your interest in the book. Best Regards, = Michael Punke [Punke, Michael W.]=20 -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 5:49 PM Michael=20 If you are going to be in Denver on Thursday and Torrington on Saturday = you will go thru Fort Collins between the two maybe we could hook up and = I could get a copy Mark #1849 "Roadkill" Loader=20 Phone 970 484 0047=20 or 1-800-434-1749=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C237D0.8585F1AB Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark=20 -- Thanks for your note concerning The Revenant.  I will = be zooming past Fort Collins, but=20 unfortunately it will be very late on Thursday night, hell bent for Wyoming.  I = do have a=20 suggestion, though, if you're interested.  I noticed that = the Tattered=20 Cover's web page offers a way to order a signed book (click on tatteredcover.com, then "TC events", = then "August 1", then "order signed copy").  You = order the=20 book, which is waiting for me to sign at Tattered Cover.  I = assume=20 they can then ship.  I = don't=20 know if this is of interest, but did want to at least mention it.  = Thanks=20 again for your interest in the book.  Best Regards, Michael=20 Punke
[Punke, Michael=20 W.] 

 -----Original Message-----
From: = MarkLoader@aol.com=20 [mailto:MarkLoader@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 5:49=20 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:=20 Follow Up on Hugh Glass

Michael
If = you are=20 going to be in Denver on Thursday and Torrington on Saturday you will = go thru=20 Fort Collins between the two maybe we could hook up and I could get a = copy=20 Mark #1849 "Roadkill" Loader
Phone 970 484 0047
or=20 1-800-434-1749
------_=_NextPart_001_01C237D0.8585F1AB-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: About doing away with those 'yotes.. Date: 30 Jul 2002 10:40:21 EDT In a message dated 7/29/02 11:54:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fmiller@lightlink.com writes: << Snakeshot? Nope! Use a bullet and be done with it! There isn't a 'yote worth leavin alive, as far as I'm concerned. >> I have to say I do not like them harassing and attacking pets, livestock or people one little bit. They remain a vector for rabies around here and are getting pretty bold. One big ol' male used to just walk the treeline at the back of my yard (that would be twenty yards from my back door) with impunity. If I and the neighbor happened to be outside he'd once or twice stopped and looked at us as if we were interlopers (and to him we were). He was going to the chicken-house 1/2 mile behind my home at the time! He (and many others) needed to be put down. But when you put an animal down do it quick and efficiently. Do not use a .22 rimfire cartridge - you may be Annie Oakley or Will Bill Hickok but you may miss and then have a wounded animal about and it just does not have the power to do the job (yeah, argue if you want but that is the truth..why do you think so many DNR's won't allow them except for small game?). Same for ratshot or shotgun shells with anything less than 00 buckshot (yep, seen 'em run and keep running when hit with 000 - yelping and squawling all the way). Use a min. of a .45 or .50 caliber ML - most states let you kill them out of season if they are a nuisance animal. Shoot them within a range that will give you a good kill. Make a skill of it...learn to call them and lure them in. Heck, my state has a year round season on coyotes and wild hogs! Put them down with a sure-placed shot and then bury them correctly or incinerate them (some animal control services will let you place the bagged carcass in their incineration facility). Folks, the coyotes surely do things we do not like....and so we play a little game of anthropomorphofication and attribute "bad" human traits to them. They are just doing what comes naturally. Pets look like easy prey. Even if they kill seven calves or sheep at a time - that is just a good way to insure a steady food source for a long time. True, they cannot be allowed to do this, but when we put them down let us do so in a humane and ethical manner. Thanks for listening, -C.Kent PS - and wear double latex or nitrile gloves when handling and/or skinning. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apple Tobacco Date: 30 Jul 2002 10:44:14 EDT In a message dated 7/30/02 12:16:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, beaverboy@sofast.net writes: << Your the second one to say they have a friend who kills nice bucks while smoking nice smelling tobaccy. I may have to give it a try this fall. Beaverboy >> We have an old fellow in our camp who drives a little motorbike with a trailer to his stand. (though he hunts in BP season!! BG) He parks it about thirty yards in front of his stand. May even leave it running sometimes, he says! He has an amazing kill rate...some nice big ones too! He claims they get curious and come in to check it out and he shoots 'em! Go figure deer.... -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaverboy/Fleas Date: 30 Jul 2002 11:16:15 EDT Putting off the problem by scaring them off, doesn't solve the problem. Coyotes will get your dog in time if you don't get the coyotes first. TrapRJoe ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 15:25:23 EDT Awhile back (summer,1942) a couple Candians on the shores of Lake Waskesiu, were making camp when they spotted an object hanging high in a spruce tree. One of the men shinnied up the tree and came down holding a very weathered copper frying pan with the letters HBC stamped on the handle. As they examined the intriguing pan, they wondered who in their right mind would have hung it forty feet up a black spruce tree. The truth dawned on both men simultaneously.....as they burst out laughing. Of course! The frying pan must been hung on a sapling by some long ago HBC Trader, and had inadvertently been left behind. The little spruce quietly continued growing...and growing...... Great true story, and ever since I read it in the foward of "Company of Adventures" by Peter C. Newman, I've been looking up at the tops of trees..... Ymos, Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 15:29:38 EDT In a message dated 7/30/02 12:26:20 PM, SWcushing@aol.com writes: << couple Candians >> Ooooops.... typo...CANADIANS......sorry. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 13:34:02 -0700 "...Great true story, and ever since I read it in the foward of "Company of Adventures" by Peter C. Newman, I've been looking up at the tops of trees..." I'm not entirely sure about the "true" part Magpie, but it is a great story. "Company of Adventurers" and "Caesars of the Wilderness" are full of such tales, Peter Newman has a real gift for making history interesting. Of course, when it's fur trade history, it isn't hard to keep a bunch of buckskinners interested! I think I would put that story in the same category as those tales about the guy who found the vintage Harley knucklehead (or Indian chief) in an old barn, covered by a tarp, in pristine condition. Everybody has heard about it happening to somebody, but no one has actually met anyone that it's happened to. (Never happens to me either damn it!) Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 18:26:10 EDT In a message dated 7/30/02 1:42:13 PM, aravery@shaw.ca writes: << I'm not entirely sure about the "true" part Magpie, but it is a great story. >> Haaaaaaa....good point. But, Newman does goes on to name one of the men as Edmund Charles Bovey...apparently a "more enlightened pillar of the Canadian Establishment". If the story is true, I'd like to see the frying pan..... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 16:01:59 -0700 "...If the story is true, I'd like to see the frying pan..." Hell Magpie, if the story is true, I want to FIND the next one! As soon as turns up, the bacon and frybread are on me! BTW, I was chatting to Barbara from Fort Nisqually and she was telling me what a fine bunch the AMM boys there are. That's you're outfit isn't it? (I suppose I could be wrong...) Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 21:43:41 EDT In a message dated 7/30/02 4:05:28 PM, aravery@shaw.ca writes: << was chatting to Barbara from Fort Nisqually and she was telling me what a fine bunch the AMM boys there are. >> Please tell Barbara thanks for the kind words. Yup.... I'm a member of the Black River party, NW Brigade, and a finer bunch of mountaineers you'd be hard pressed to fine....(VBG) This far west of the Rocky's, we do a lot of HBCo stuff....even a Longboat reenactment up the River Chehalis (1824, Mr. Work commanding) that was about as much fun on an oar as a guy could stand... Magpie ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 21:45:05 EDT --part1_8b.1bbb0ef5.2a789b21_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/02 3:35:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, SWcushing@aol.com writes: > << I'm not entirely sure about the "true" part Magpie, but it is a great > story. >> > > Haaaaaaa....good point. But, Newman does goes on to name one of the men as > Edmund Charles Bovey...apparently a "more enlightened pillar of the > Canadian > Establishment". If the story is true, I'd like to see the frying pan..... > > I'd like to see the tree that grows from the bottom! Think about it! I'm sure most of us have a favorite tree limb in our favorite deer camp that we've used for the last 25 or so years. Has that limb gotten much higher in that time we've been using it? Possibly a few inches due to the larger diameter of that particular limb or maybe the soil has eroded a bit under the tree, and, granted, some of us have shrunk over the years, but that limb is basically the same height now as it was 25 years ago. Trees grow from the TOP, not the bottom, so how'd that skillet get that high in the tree. The tree didn't grow it up there. Maybe there was a hell of a snow storm & the skillet was hung at snow level? Nauga Mok --part1_8b.1bbb0ef5.2a789b21_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/02 3:35:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, SWcushing@aol.com writes:


<< I'm not entirely sure about the "true" part Magpie, but it is a great
story. >>

Haaaaaaa....good point. But, Newman does goes on to name one of the men as
Edmund Charles Bovey...apparently a "more enlightened pillar of the Canadian
Establishment". If the story is true, I'd like to see the frying pan.....



I'd like to see the tree that grows from the bottom!  Think about it!  I'm sure most of us have a favorite tree limb in our favorite deer camp that we've used for the last 25 or so years.  Has that limb gotten much higher in that time we've been using it?  Possibly a few inches due to the larger diameter of that particular limb or maybe the soil has eroded a bit under the tree, and, granted, some of us have shrunk over the years, but that limb is basically the same height now as it was 25 years ago.  Trees grow from the TOP, not the bottom, so how'd that skillet get that high in the tree.  The tree didn't grow it up there.  Maybe there was a hell of a snow storm & the skillet was hung at snow level?

Nauga Mok --part1_8b.1bbb0ef5.2a789b21_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mdrougas@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 30 Jul 2002 23:18:11 EDT To the list, I've never wrote in before, preferring to shutup and learn, but I.m in need of your collective knowledge and experience. I'm new to buckskinning and would like to know about making a pair of pantaloons to go with what I presently have. I now wear narrowfall trousers with the baggy bottom. My wife calls them my diaper bottom pants and just hates em. I noticed on Crazy Cyots web site ( very well done and informative ) that he and Stargazer made a pair. Did you use a pattern? If so, which one? I'm 5' 9" and a 32" waist, 34" inseam, how much Brain tan do I need? Any thing else you can tell me would be great. Thanks in advance. Respectfully, Michael J. Drougas Yakima, Wa. 98908 mdrougas@aol.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 30 Jul 2002 21:56:31 -0600 Michael, Figure on at least 3 hides, if they're pretty good sized. One for Fron of legs, one for back of legs, and the other for waistband and fringe. I'd line the inside of the waistband with cloth, so it doesn't keeeeeeeeeep stretching. I made a pair from the pattern in the Book of Buckskinning Vol 3 I think. Made a cloth pair to check out the pattern, then made a set out of brain tan. That was a few years ago and they've held up great to lots of camps and horseback rides. You'll find brain tan comfortable in most all kinds of weather. By the by, I sewed my with linen thread. Good luck!!!! Allen in Fort Hall country At 11:18 PM 7/30/2002 EDT, you wrote: >To the list, > I've never wrote in before, preferring to shutup and learn, but I.m in >need of your collective knowledge and experience. I'm new to buckskinning and >would like to know about making a pair of pantaloons to go with what I >presently have. I now wear narrowfall trousers with the baggy bottom. My wife >calls them my diaper bottom pants and just hates em. I noticed on Crazy Cyots >web site ( very well done and informative ) that he and Stargazer made a >pair. Did you use a pattern? If so, which one? I'm 5' 9" and a 32" waist, 34" >inseam, how much Brain tan do I need? Any thing else you can tell me would be >great. Thanks in advance. > Respectfully, > Michael J. >Drougas > Yakima, Wa. >98908 > mdrougas@aol.com > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 31 Jul 2002 00:09:44 EDT --part1_ba.29b4f86d.2a78bd08_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/2002 8:20:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Mdrougas@aol.com writes: <> Michael, Patterns are available at places like Jas. Townsend & Son, Crazy Crow Trading, and Panther Primitives among others. If you decide to do braintan, which IS about the most comfortable stuff you'll ever wear, you might check Braintan.com for hints and tips on working with the material. Personally, while I wear braintan on cooler evenings and during winter camp, I also wear quite a bit of cotton/linen clothing because I get WAY hot on 70+ days. I found White Fox Trading for some nice fabrics. Then you can make things like narrowfalls, southwestern, etc. to fit, and your lovely Senora will find something else to heckle you about. Glad to finally meet you, Barney --part1_ba.29b4f86d.2a78bd08_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/2002 8:20:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Mdrougas@aol.com writes: <<Any thing else you can tell me would be great>>


Michael, Patterns are available at places like Jas. Townsend & Son, Crazy Crow Trading, and  Panther Primitives among others. If you decide to do braintan, which IS about the most comfortable stuff you'll ever wear, you might check  Braintan.com for hints and tips on working with the material.

Personally, while I wear braintan on cooler evenings and during winter camp, I also wear quite a bit of cotton/linen clothing because I get WAY hot on 70+ days. I found White Fox Trading for some nice fabrics. Then you can make things like narrowfalls, southwestern, etc. to fit, and your lovely Senora will find something else to heckle you about.

Glad to finally meet you, Barney --part1_ba.29b4f86d.2a78bd08_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 30 Jul 2002 21:27:22 -0700 "...Please tell Barbara thanks for the kind words. Yup.... I'm a member of the Black River party, NW Brigade, and a finer bunch of mountaineers you'd be hard pressed to fine....(VBG) This far west of the Rocky's, we do a lot of HBCo stuff....even a Longboat reenactment up the River Chehalis (1824, Mr. Work commanding) that was about as much fun on an oar as a guy could stand..." Never been in a longboat, sounds real interesting, I have logged a lot of miles in canoes though, which is a mode of travel that I heartily recommend. (should be second nature for Bay men!) I am hoping to get down to Ft Nisqually for the brigade encampment, won't happen this year due to other committments, but next year God willing and the crick don't run dry, I hope to be there. Take Care, Black Knife aka Alan ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 31 Jul 2002 01:48:49 EDT --part1_193.ab05400.2a78d441_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael Glad ya liked the site, we have had a good time doing it, not so much the site as the getting out on the trail a learning and doing it, that's been the fun part for us. Always glad to share I sued a pattern from Eagle Feather Trading post out of Ogden Utah a lot of trades carry there patterns. I used two very large deer hides (I still wonder how I got them away from Jill as a rule she take all the big hides to make dresses out of) and one small hide for the waste band. Alan gave ya a good pointer on the waste band I sandwiched a peace of canvas in mine. Another pointer the pattern calls for a double layer on the flap of the bord falls but I only used a signal layer it laid better and took less leather. Next pointer I sewed the top all together down to mid thigh then pined the legs to get them to fit tight like I wanted them to fit. Like you see in the Miller pictures and how a lot of pontoons were made in the early 1800's. when I sewed them I left the bottom eight inches or so open and use two button to close the bottom of the pant leg. This make it easier to get them on and off with the tight fitting legs. By all mean if you can use brain tan, hope this helps. See ya down the trail Crazy Cyot --part1_193.ab05400.2a78d441_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael
Glad ya liked the site, we have had a good time doing it, not so much the site as the getting out on the trail a learning and doing it, that's been the fun part for us. Always glad to share I sued a pattern from Eagle Feather Trading post out of Ogden Utah a lot of trades carry there patterns. I used two very large deer hides (I still wonder how I got them away from Jill as a rule she take all the big hides to make dresses out of) and one small hide for the waste band. Alan gave ya a good pointer on the waste band I sandwiched a peace of canvas in mine. Another pointer the pattern calls for a double layer on the flap of the bord falls but I only used a signal layer it laid better and took less leather. Next pointer I sewed the top all together down to mid thigh then pined the legs to get them to fit tight like I wanted them to fit. Like you see in the Miller pictures and how a lot of pontoons were made in the early 1800's. when I sewed them I left the bottom eight inches or so open and use two button to close the bottom of the pant leg. This make it easier to get them on and off with the tight fitting legs.
By all mean if you can use brain tan, hope this helps.
See ya down the trail
Crazy Cyot --part1_193.ab05400.2a78d441_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 31 Jul 2002 02:25:01 EDT Michael, Lots of good tips reagrding making pantaloons are coming up. I'll throw in two more that I think are important. Allen mentioned using linen thread. I'm sure he would agree you should wax the thread as you go. Also, if you use braintan, I suggest inserting a thin piece of leather in all your seams. There's a name for that piece but it escapes me right now. Along the outside leg, the fringe will suffice. But on the inside and the inseam, stitching a thin piece of leather in will help reduce the stress on the leather. The leather is less likely to tear through where the needle holes have perforated the leather. Jim ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 31 Jul 2002 07:23:54 -0500 C.W. Cushing said, Sorry, C.W. Thet's got to be a woodsy urban legend. There are a lot of stories about things being found high in trees. Don't happen that way. Trees grow from the top. A nail put in a small tree three feet off the ground will still be three feet off the ground fifty or a hundred years later. But, its a nice story. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Follow Up on Hugh Glass Date: 31 Jul 2002 07:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Michael, Will you be at Bridger for the entire rendezvous? Win Blevins had much success there on several occasions. I look forward to getting my copy of "The Revenant" at that time. Dog, Hiv. #617 --- "Punke, Michael W." wrote: > Mark -- Thanks for your note concerning The > Revenant. I will be zooming past Fort Collins, but > unfortunately it will be very late on Thursday > night, hell bent for Wyoming. I do have a > suggestion, though, if you're interested. I noticed > that the Tattered Cover's web page offers a way to > order a signed book (click on tatteredcover.com, > then "TC events", then "August 1", then "order > signed copy"). You order the book, which is waiting > for me to sign at Tattered Cover. I assume they can > then ship. I don't know if this is of interest, but > did want to at least mention it. Thanks again for > your interest in the book. Best Regards, Michael > Punke > [Punke, Michael W.] > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkLoader@aol.com [mailto:MarkLoader@aol.com] > Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 5:49 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Follow Up on Hugh Glass > > > > Michael > If you are going to be in Denver on Thursday and > Torrington on Saturday you will go thru Fort Collins > between the two maybe we could hook up and I could > get a copy Mark #1849 "Roadkill" Loader > Phone 970 484 0047 > or 1-800-434-1749 > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tim Holland Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 31 Jul 2002 08:37:42 -0700 (PDT) While that was an interesting story, there is a flaw. Trees grow from the top. If they grew from the bottom, there would be many high fences all over the country. If you drive a nail in a tree it stays at the same height. The tree will heal over it eventually. That's why a lot of saw mills don't want the bottom section of some trees. A nail can play havoc with a saw blade. New growth on a tree is from the tip of the branch. I'd like to see the pan too. It would be nice to have. Shoot straight Tim Holland Hannibal, MO __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 31 Jul 2002 13:18:53 EDT In a message dated 7/31/02 8:39:42 AM, timholland99@yahoo.com writes: << While that was an interesting story, there is a flaw. Trees grow from the top. If they grew from the bottom, there would be many high fences all over the country. >> Yeah..... I should have figured that out, but it was a good story. My first thought was that the pan was hung high in the tree during the winter.... but "40 feet" high is quite a stretch for snow.....even in Canada. I'll keep an eye out for more notes in Newman's book "Company of Adventurers" as I read it. For you boys interested in the Hudson's Bay Co., it and his next book, "Caesars of the Wilderness" are probably a must read. Ymos, Mag ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: MtMan-List: copper frying pan Date: 31 Jul 2002 13:06:30 -0500 Great story, but as if I didn't have anything better to do, I have watched a few trees grow. They mostly grow by sending new growth up and out, not by lengthening the existing growth. The limbs get fatter, but an old place on the limb mostly stays put. So the frying pan would have stayed where it was originally put. I can prove this to you, but it will take more than a few years for the tree to grow. Glenn Darilek Iron Burner >The frying pan must been hung on a sapling by some long ago HBC Trader, and >had inadvertently been left behind. The little spruce quietly continued >growing...and growing...... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "busterize" Subject: MtMan-List: Killing coyotes Date: 31 Jul 2002 11:09:02 -0700 While I am an excellent shot with a handgun I have never used a rifle (hate to admit that, having grown up in a family full of hunters) and, while I have little aversion to killing coyotes, we just aren't that deep in the woods here (damn progress all over -- got to protect the wild beasties and not disturb the neighbors). I thank whomever suggested the airhorn. I think I'll try it. Anyone got any answer to the pack forms (on pack animals) used back in the fur trapping days? Geri ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 31 Jul 2002 13:29:26 -0600 At 02:25 AM 7/31/2002 EDT, you wrote: >Michael, > >Lots of good tips reagrding making pantaloons are coming up. I'll throw in >two more that I think are important. Allen mentioned using linen thread. >I'm sure he would agree you should wax the thread as you go. Also, if you use >braintan, I suggest inserting a thin piece of leather in all your seams. >There's a name for that piece but it escapes me right now. Along the outside >leg, the fringe will suffice. But on the inside and the inseam, stitching a >thin piece of leather in will help reduce the stress on the leather. The >leather is less likely to tear through where the needle holes have perforated >the leather. > >Jim Jim is right about waxing the thread. I always do it, but forgot to mention it. The piece of leather in the seam is called a welt, and like Jim said, I highly recommend it for all leather clothing, moccasins, coats, etc.\\ Allen ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 31 Jul 2002 13:31:28 -0600 At 01:48 AM 7/31/2002 EDT, Crazy wrote: . >This make it easier to get them on and off with the tight fitting legs. >See ya down the trail >Crazy Cyot You take them off.....................? Allen ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Killing coyotes Date: 31 Jul 2002 21:44:58 EDT --part1_14e.11b93b90.2a79ec9a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2002 11:24:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes: > I thank whomever suggested the airhorn That would be me Geri, and the Forest Ranger recommended air horn trick works! We used it on a Blackie that was meandering through our YMCA camp daily a couple of weeks ago. He had been in/around camp every day until I blasted him outside the dining hall early one morning; never to be seen again, for the rest of our time up there, anyway! Granted that while coyotes are a problem, as many have said, shooting them just isn't an option in all circumstances. Barney --part1_14e.11b93b90.2a79ec9a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2002 11:24:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, busterize@oldwest.net writes:


I thank whomever suggested the airhorn


That would be me Geri, and the Forest Ranger recommended air horn trick works! We used it on a Blackie that was meandering through our YMCA camp daily a couple of weeks ago.  He had been in/around camp every day until I blasted him outside the dining hall early one morning; never to be seen again, for the rest of our time up there, anyway!

Granted that while coyotes are a problem, as many have said, shooting them just isn't an option in all circumstances.

Barney --part1_14e.11b93b90.2a79ec9a_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Killing coyotes Date: 31 Jul 2002 23:26:29 EDT --part1_95.205c21ea.2a7a0465_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wish you boy's would use a different Subject line that Killing coyotes one is starting to make me nervous! Let me know when it's safe for me to come out of my hole. Crazy Cyot --part1_95.205c21ea.2a7a0465_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wish you boy's would use a different Subject line that Killing coyotes one is starting to make me nervous!
Let me know when it's safe for me to come out of my hole.
Crazy Cyot --part1_95.205c21ea.2a7a0465_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Living off the land Date: 31 Jul 2002 23:34:00 EDT Klahowya Boys, Living off the land in the Great North West is tough, but somebody has got to do it..... Does this count as "making meat" or what??? Magpie crawdad.jpg http://www.members.aol.com/swcushing/crawdad.jpg ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Silent Guns on Cyots Date: 31 Jul 2002 21:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Geri, Why not buy a paint ball gun and shoot the offending coyotes with paint?! They are quiet, accurate and you'd know the coyotes you shot by the color. I've shot paint ball rifles (smoothbores) only once and they are accurate with practice. Please forgive me for talking about paint ball guns on this list. Beaverboy PS: or a high quality bb gun. A bb in their butt might teach them to mind their manners. Both are quiet and discreet. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: MtMan-List: Frying Pan Date: 31 Jul 2002 22:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Magpie, I believe your story. They probably were in Griz country and did not want a big griz chewing up that genuine HBC frying pan so climbed up to the top of the tree to hang it. And being the typical middle to older age mountainman/voyageur forgot all about it until they read your post. Beaverboy PS: Bears can read too, how else would they know there's food in can goods? ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Avery Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Living off the land Date: 31 Jul 2002 21:46:21 -0700 "...Living off the land in the Great North West is tough, but somebody has got to do it..... Does this count as "making meat" or what???..." Boy, some guys got it ROUGH! I don't think it counts as makin' meat unless you shot them! Black Knife ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pantaloons? Date: 01 Aug 2002 01:49:32 EDT --part1_114.14ecfb54.2a7a25ec_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen said You take them off.....................? Jill makes me one a month or so just to make sure they ain't grown to me or something. (G) see ya in the hills Crazy Cyot --part1_114.14ecfb54.2a7a25ec_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen said
You take them off.....................?
Jill makes me one a month or so just to make sure they ain't grown to me or something. (G)
see ya in the hills
Crazy Cyot
--part1_114.14ecfb54.2a7a25ec_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html