From: "Ben" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs. & Wool dress Date: 02 Jan 2004 10:57:35 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3D11F.3A92DAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Crazy Cyot, It's been a spell since we spoke, but hoping you still remember me. = I'm the one writing a novel of the fur trade era and settlement of the = west. That probably doesn't narrow it down to much as it seems everyone = is writing a book these days. My name is Ben Bracken and you gave me a = ton of good information on period correct clothing, foods, cooking = utinsels, and a bunch more and I thank you greatly for it. Now I'm back for another favor. I was browsing your website today (I = do that quite often) and noticed a picture of you, Jill and a couple of = others sitting around a fire at the base of some cliffs. I'm asking what = it would take to get you to let me use it as a background on the back = cover of my novel. Chase After the Wind. It would be covered with = printing, but the scenery and camp would still be seen. I doubt that = individuals would be recognizable.=20 I have bought back the publishing rights to my novel because, after = seeing what my publisher had planned for me and my book, I decided if I = had to do all the work I should at least get some of the money. That's = another story that I'll tell you another time if you're interested. So now I'm going to self-publish it. Another learning experience from = the college of hard knocks. If you send me your mailing address I'll ship you out the first = printed copy I get. Thanks for everything, Ben ps: I had to learn how to build a website and listed your website on = it and would appreciate a link to my site on yours. It's listed at = http://www.chaseafterthewind.com Take a look if you get a chance. The = vest I'm wearing in the author's picture I made myself. It's handsewn of = buckskin and sinew. I was going to make a jacket but buckskin is heavier = than I thought. I now have a lot more respect for the Indian women that = made all of the clothes. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3D11F.3A92DAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Hi Crazy Cyot,
 
It's been a spell since we spoke, but = hoping you=20 still remember me.  I'm the one writing a novel of the fur trade = era and=20 settlement of the west. That probably doesn't narrow it down to much = as it=20 seems everyone is writing a book these days.  My name is Ben = Bracken and=20 you gave me a ton of good information on period correct clothing, = foods,=20 cooking utinsels, and a bunch more and I thank you greatly for=20 it.
 
Now I'm back for another favor. I was = browsing=20 your website today (I do that quite often) and noticed a picture = of you,=20 Jill and a couple of others sitting around a fire at the base of some = cliffs.=20 I'm asking what it would take to get you to let me  use it = as a=20 background on the back cover of my novel. Chase After the Wind.  = It would=20 be covered with printing, but the scenery and camp would still be = seen. I=20 doubt that individuals would be recognizable.
 
I have bought back the publishing = rights to my=20 novel because, after seeing what my publisher had planned for me and = my book,=20 I decided if I had to do all the work I should at least get some of = the money.=20 That's another story that I'll tell you another time if you're=20 interested.
So now I'm going to self-publish it. = Another=20 learning experience from the college of hard knocks.
 
If you send me your mailing address = I'll ship you=20 out the first printed copy I get.
 
Thanks for everything,
 
Ben
 
ps: I had to learn how to build a = website and=20 listed your website on it and would appreciate a link to my site on = yours.=20 It's listed at http://www.chaseafterthewind.co= m  =20 Take a look if you get a chance.  The vest I'm wearing in the = author's=20 picture I made myself. It's handsewn of buckskin and sinew. I was = going to=20 make a jacket but buckskin is heavier than I thought. I now have a lot = more=20 respect for the Indian women that made all of the clothes. =20
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3D11F.3A92DAC0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ben" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs. & Wool dress Date: 02 Jan 2004 11:20:10 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3D122.6238F8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable oooops....that should have gone off list....sorry Ben ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ben=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs. & Wool dress Hi Crazy Cyot, It's been a spell since we spoke, but hoping you still remember me. = I'm the one writing a novel of the fur trade era and settlement of the = west. That probably doesn't narrow it down to much as it seems everyone = is writing a book these days. My name is Ben Bracken and you gave me a = ton of good information on period correct clothing, foods, cooking = utinsels, and a bunch more and I thank you greatly for it. Now I'm back for another favor. I was browsing your website today (I = do that quite often) and noticed a picture of you, Jill and a couple of = others sitting around a fire at the base of some cliffs. I'm asking what = it would take to get you to let me use it as a background on the back = cover of my novel. Chase After the Wind. It would be covered with = printing, but the scenery and camp would still be seen. I doubt that = individuals would be recognizable.=20 I have bought back the publishing rights to my novel because, after = seeing what my publisher had planned for me and my book, I decided if I = had to do all the work I should at least get some of the money. That's = another story that I'll tell you another time if you're interested. So now I'm going to self-publish it. Another learning experience = from the college of hard knocks. If you send me your mailing address I'll ship you out the first = printed copy I get. Thanks for everything, Ben ps: I had to learn how to build a website and listed your website on = it and would appreciate a link to my site on yours. It's listed at = http://www.chaseafterthewind.com Take a look if you get a chance. The = vest I'm wearing in the author's picture I made myself. It's handsewn of = buckskin and sinew. I was going to make a jacket but buckskin is heavier = than I thought. I now have a lot more respect for the Indian women that = made all of the clothes. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3D122.6238F8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
oooops....that should have gone off=20 list....sorry
Ben
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ben =
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 = 10:57=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter = Mocs.=20 & Wool dress

 
Hi Crazy Cyot,
 
It's been a spell since we spoke, = but hoping=20 you still remember me.  I'm the one writing a novel of the fur = trade=20 era and settlement of the west. That probably doesn't narrow it down = to much=20 as it seems everyone is writing a book these days.  My name is = Ben=20 Bracken and you gave me a ton of good information on period correct=20 clothing, foods, cooking utinsels, and a bunch more and I thank you = greatly=20 for it.
 
Now I'm back for another favor. I = was browsing=20 your website today (I do that quite often) and noticed a = picture of=20 you, Jill and a couple of others sitting around a fire at the base = of some=20 cliffs. I'm asking what it would take to get you to let = me  use it=20 as a background on the back cover of my novel. Chase After the = Wind. =20 It would be covered with printing, but the scenery and camp would = still be=20 seen. I doubt that individuals would be recognizable.
 
I have bought back the publishing = rights to my=20 novel because, after seeing what my publisher had planned for me and = my=20 book, I decided if I had to do all the work I should at least get = some of=20 the money. That's another story that I'll tell you another time if = you're=20 interested.
So now I'm going to self-publish = it. Another=20 learning experience from the college of hard knocks.
 
If you send me your mailing address = I'll ship=20 you out the first printed copy I get.
 
Thanks for everything,
 
Ben
 
ps: I had to learn how to build a = website and=20 listed your website on it and would appreciate a link to my site on = yours.=20 It's listed at http://www.chaseafterthewind.co= m  =20 Take a look if you get a chance.  The vest I'm wearing in the = author's=20 picture I made myself. It's handsewn of buckskin and sinew. I was = going to=20 make a jacket but buckskin is heavier than I thought. I now have a = lot more=20 respect for the Indian women that made all of the clothes. =20
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C3D122.6238F8E0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Trapper Model .22 Date: 02 Jan 2004 19:32:05 -0700 (MST) Dear List, I know this is a bit off topic but it does include the word "Trapper" in it! Does anyone know when H&R produced the .22 7-shot double action Trapper Model pistol? It has to be one of the slimmest and neatest little trapping .22's I have ever seen. My friend found one that is in pretty good condition. The cylinder free spins too, until cocked, is that normal? Does anyone have any idea what it is worth roughly? I bet they produced a ton of them. It sure would have made a great trapline gun. Thanks for any help. beaverboy ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Old Trade Gun Barrel Date: 02 Jan 2004 19:56:56 -0700 (MST) Dear List, My same friend that had the .22 pistol is the same fellow that had the old trade gun barrel that his cousin found on the Teton River (Rose River to L&C) here in North Central, Montana. While I was looking at the .22, I asked about the trade gun barrel and took all the measurements on it. This barrel is a gem!!! To hold it is to feel the fur trade! To think about the gunsmith who made it and the owner or owners of it is to hold history in your hands. It is a slim, graceful barrel. The flash hole is 3/32nd of an inch.(you want a historically correct flash hole, drill a 3/32 hole in your barrel) It is not coned and guess what? Not burned out at all either, the edge is just as crisp as the day it was drilled. You can just barely make out the proof mark. It has been filed off at 14" and looks like a .28 gauge, not a .20 (we could not mike the bore as someone had mushroomed the end while beating on something). It also has a chiseled in rear sight! It will someday be on display at the Fort Benton Museum not five miles from where it was found!! We unplugged the flash hole while I was there and I begged my friend to let us put a charge through it!!!! I could read the article title...."Trade Gun barrel comes to life after 100 year rest in Teton River!!!" My friend thought it would be best to put it on loan at the Fort Benton Museum unfired. What a bummer. I would make a blanket gun out of it and kill a deer with it or die or get maimed trying! That barrel would want us to shoot it, wouldn't it? bb ps: George Drulliard, if you're out there, e-mail me. Your e-mail isn't working. Or call your old beaver trapping buddy this weekend. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Mocs. & Wool dress Date: 02 Jan 2004 20:54:54 -0700 (MST) Nice web page Ben. bb > > Hi Crazy Cyot, > > It's been a spell since we spoke, but hoping you still remember me. I'm > the one writing a novel of the fur trade era and settlement of the west. > That probably doesn't narrow it down to much as it seems everyone is > writing a book these days. My name is Ben Bracken and you gave me a ton > of good information on period correct clothing, foods, cooking utinsels, > and a bunch more and I thank you greatly for it. > > Now I'm back for another favor. I was browsing your website today (I do > that quite often) and noticed a picture of you, Jill and a couple of > others sitting around a fire at the base of some cliffs. I'm asking what > it would take to get you to let me use it as a background on the back > cover of my novel. Chase After the Wind. It would be covered with > printing, but the scenery and camp would still be seen. I doubt that > individuals would be recognizable. > > I have bought back the publishing rights to my novel because, after > seeing what my publisher had planned for me and my book, I decided if I > had to do all the work I should at least get some of the money. That's > another story that I'll tell you another time if you're interested. > So now I'm going to self-publish it. Another learning experience from > the college of hard knocks. > > If you send me your mailing address I'll ship you out the first printed > copy I get. > > Thanks for everything, > > Ben > > ps: I had to learn how to build a website and listed your website on it > and would appreciate a link to my site on yours. It's listed at > http://www.chaseafterthewind.com Take a look if you get a chance. The > vest I'm wearing in the author's picture I made myself. It's handsewn of > buckskin and sinew. I was going to make a jacket but buckskin is heavier > than I thought. I now have a lot more respect for the Indian women that > made all of the clothes. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Larry" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Trapper Model .22 Date: 02 Jan 2004 23:23:39 -0700 the trapper model da was discontinued prior to 1942. described as solid frame seven shot cylinder, 6 inch octagon bbl., weight 12.5 oz. fixed sights, blued finsih. checkered walnut grips. safety cylinder on later models. new in box it is worth $150, excellent condition $120 and good condition $80. dogbone ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ikon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapper Model .22 Date: 03 Jan 2004 16:26:45 -0500 I had one of these pistols many years ago. It is one that I sold and wished I had not. I sold it about 8 years ago for 100 bucks to a local gun shop. Frank ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 9:32 PM > Dear List, > I know this is a bit off topic but it does include the word "Trapper" > in it! Does anyone know when H&R produced the .22 7-shot double action > Trapper Model pistol? It has to be one of the slimmest and neatest > little trapping .22's I have ever seen. My friend found one that is in > pretty good condition. > The cylinder free spins too, until cocked, is that normal? Does anyone > have any idea what it is worth roughly? I bet they produced a ton of > them. It sure would have made a great trapline gun. > Thanks for any help. > beaverboy > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: MtMan-List: Harley 'Swede' Johnson Date: 03 Jan 2004 19:26:45 -0800 Dear friends, I have some sad news. I just got a call from Harley 'Swede' Johnson's daughter. He didn't show up for a shoot with some of the guys today, they investigated .. and found he'd died. He's had health problems. As soon as I know I'll post funeral time, etc.... Swede was one of my first Mtn. Man friends. I met him at my first rdvs. in 1982. He has been a friend, mentor and supplier ever since. He lived in Los Alamos , CA.. Some of you may know him as a trader at Mid State Calif. Rdvs. (ojai, peter lebec, etc....). He always reminded me of Burl Ives. A good man, friend and supporter of our sport has gone to the 'other side' today. Save us a shady campsite Swede.... my friend. Yfab, hardtack (he gave this name) Randal Bublitz rjbublitz@earthlink.net "Life is short, paddle hard..." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapper Model .22 Date: 03 Jan 2004 23:00:11 EST I think I gave right around a hundred bucks for mine in 1994 and this one was new. Found it in a sporting goods store tucked away in the back. Probably gave too much for it then. But I like it and it is a good trapline gun. -C.Kent ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John McKee" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Harley 'Swede' Johnson Date: 03 Jan 2004 22:00:06 -0600 Sorry to hear about ol' Swede. He was a straight shooter if there ever was one!! If there is an afterlife, Swede will be sitting in the shade of his trade trailer, holdin court and skinnin the unwary pilgrim.....give our condolences to his family. John ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 9:26 PM > Dear friends, I have some sad news. I just got a call from Harley 'Swede' > Johnson's daughter. He didn't show up for a shoot with some of the guys > today, they investigated .. and found he'd died. He's had health problems. > As soon as I know I'll post funeral time, etc.... > Swede was one of my first Mtn. Man friends. I met him at my first rdvs. > in 1982. He has been a friend, mentor and supplier ever since. He lived > in Los Alamos , CA.. Some of you may know him as a trader at Mid State > Calif. Rdvs. (ojai, peter lebec, etc....). He always reminded me of Burl > Ives. A good man, friend and supporter of our sport has gone to the 'other > side' today. Save us a shady campsite Swede.... my friend. > Yfab, hardtack (he gave this name) > > > Randal Bublitz > rjbublitz@earthlink.net > "Life is short, paddle hard..." > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapper Model .22 Date: 03 Jan 2004 23:35:41 -0700 (MST) Thank you everyone for the .22 info. I passed it on to the owner. It really is a neat little .22 Thanks again for your help, bb > I think I gave right around a hundred bucks for mine in 1994 and this one > was > new. Found it in a sporting goods store tucked away in the back. > Probably > gave too much for it then. But I like it and it is a good trapline gun. > > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates Date: 08 Jan 2004 21:11:08 EST --part1_177.245699bd.2d2f67bc_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have the dates for the 2004 Rocky Mountain College this year. I realize it may be early, but need to make plans in advance. Any contact info or website would be greatly appreciated. Frank Sablan Midland, Texas --part1_177.245699bd.2d2f67bc_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have the dates for the=20= 2004 Rocky Mountain College this year.  I realize it may be early, but=20= need to make plans in advance.  Any contact info or website would be gr= eatly appreciated.

Frank Sablan
Midland, Texas --part1_177.245699bd.2d2f67bc_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 08 Jan 2004 22:47:14 -0500 I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. Thanks, Lou ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates Date: 09 Jan 2004 04:27:59 +0000 Frank, If you go to the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Association's webe site (csmla.org), it will give you the dates, and who to talk to there. It is usually the first full week in August, hope to see you there! mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 08 Jan 2004 21:14:45 -0800 Good Sir The original journals are remarkably deficient in describing how the mountain men humped their stuff around when they lost their horses. I have seen reference to "heaving our bundles on our backs" without much detail, making me suspect improvised arrangements with tumpline and ropes. I use a primitive pack frame that I made from local materials, and usually carry my stuff in three bundles lashed to this frame - one leather portmanteau (cylindrical case) for my possibles and two rolls of canvas and bedding. I have also used a packbasket for the possibles with bedroll horse-shoed over top. Both seemed to ride OK. Neither is really that historically correct as the original guys always packed by horse or canoe except in emergencies. But I figure anything you can improvise or make in the field is at least "reasonable". I have never used a knapsack but I know some who do and they like theirs OK too. My impression however is that it flops around more and cuts off more air from your back (you will work up a sweat). You will naturally want to lighten your load as much as possible - your water ration is a significant weight burden but important of course. The original mountaineers rarely carried water but we can't depend on drinking out of any old hoofprint like those old boys did. However, if you think you can find any local source at all that you can boil, you could carry less. Your trip is a challenge due to the climate change from mountain to desert since you have to allow for a range of conditions. Hopefully you will be able to make fires which can spare you some degree of bedding. Best of luck Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:47 PM I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. Thanks, Lou ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Swimming Date: 08 Jan 2004 23:07:50 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C3D63C.3D1E8CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was reading a book called Breakthrough Swimming in which the author = spent some time researching swimming in history. He claimed that = Europeans used a breast stroke and side stroke but no variation of the = crawl or freestyle. However, Native Americans, Australians, and = Pacific Islanders were proficeint swimmers using it. Does anyone else = know anything more about this subject? If nothing else that might well = explain why we read such glowing reports about the abilities of the = Indains in water. I know both Catlin and Miller talk about the womens = ability to swim. =20 Just a little tidbit for you to give you perspective anyway. Or maybe a = new requirement for the Women of the Fur Trade to add to the list. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C3D63C.3D1E8CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was reading a book called = Breakthrough Swimming=20 in which the author spent some time researching swimming in = history.  He=20 claimed that Europeans used a breast stroke and side stroke but no = variation of=20 the crawl or freestyle.  However, Native Americans, Australians, = and =20 Pacific Islanders were proficeint swimmers using it.  Does anyone = else know=20 anything more about this subject?  If nothing else that might well = explain=20 why we read such glowing reports about the abilities of the Indains in=20 water.  I know both Catlin and Miller talk about the womens ability = to=20 swim.  
 
Just a little tidbit for you = to give you=20 perspective anyway.  Or maybe a new requirement for the Women of = the Fur=20 Trade to add to the list.
Wynn Ormond
 
------=_NextPart_000_01EE_01C3D63C.3D1E8CE0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim-Ken Carpenter" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 08 Jan 2004 22:18:43 -0800 Lou, Sounds interesting. Are you in California. I have done some primitive treking in the Sierras. I roll everything up in my blanket roll and sling it across my back. Only carry jerky and/or dried meat, dried corn, dried fruits, salt pork or bacon, sheet iron skillet or a corn boiler and a cup, wooden spoon. But, there are a whole lot of other foods you can carry that will keep and are light, like cheese, even fresh meat for the first night. Start off with it frozen. Done it and had no problem. Had a gourd canteen that I made, but I broke it at Ham's Fork on a horseback trip on which we visited the four main camps of the '34 rendezvous. Have to make another. That's about it, except for my normal shooting bag and possibles. If you carry that much water you'll probably need three or four times that much. It's logarithmic. Water weighs about 8 pounds per gallon if I remember my hydraulics right. Carrying that much water has diminishing returns because you use up so much more water and energy, carrying water. It is kind of like you can't create or destroy energy, you can only change it's form. In the Sierras or the Rockies it is not hard to find water. I only carry a couple of quarts. Boiling water doesn't work for me unless you are sitting in camp for quite awhile. If you are in areas with questionable water, cheat and carry a filter :). If you are in the National Forest, sometimes the Forest Service can tell you if there are known water problems in a given area, like parasites, etc. That's been my experience anyway. There's water in the dez also. That's why I am wondering where you are treking. Good luck, Carp > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/8/2004 7:47:17 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? > > I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. > > Thanks, Lou > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming Date: 09 Jan 2004 01:23:57 EST --part1_14b.28f93233.2d2fa2fd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wynn When it comes to Indian women swimmers I like to think of the breast stroke. Bad Cyot! Bad, bad Cyot! Sorry couldn't help it Crazy made me. (VBG) --part1_14b.28f93233.2d2fa2fd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wynn
When it comes to Indian women swimmers I like to think of the breast str= oke.
Bad Cyot! Bad, bad Cyot!=20
Sorry couldn't help it Crazy made me. (VBG)
=20
=20
--part1_14b.28f93233.2d2fa2fd_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming Date: 09 Jan 2004 06:37:39 +0000

Wynn,

I'm pretty sure that Miller documented that occuring "topless" to to be sure!

I, for one, would sign on and volunteer my time to document the event, visually!

Mike




AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY
"Ride, Ride, Ride"
"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >From: GazeingCyot@cs.com >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming >Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 01:23:57 EST > >Wynn >When it comes to Indian women swimmers I like to think of the breast stroke. >Bad Cyot! Bad, bad Cyot! >Sorry couldn't help it Crazy made me. (VBG) > > >

Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work — and yourself. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming Date: 09 Jan 2004 02:29:34 EST --part1_169.287e8171.2d2fb25e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, uh, I hope this comment isn't too cleanor in good taste, but I found that info. on the different swimming strokes to be interesting. It WOULD be fascinating to know if the Native Amer. had different/better strokes than the Europeans and that accounts for the many glowing accounts of Indians as swimmers. I'm looking forward to more input on this. John Sweet Colo Spgs --part1_169.287e8171.2d2fb25e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey, uh, I hope this comment isn= 't too cleanor in good taste, but I found that info. on the different swimmi= ng strokes to be interesting. 

It WOULD be fascinating to know if the Native Amer. had different/better str= okes than the Europeans and that accounts for the many glowing accounts of I= ndians as swimmers.

I'm looking forward to more input on this.

John Sweet
Colo Spgs --part1_169.287e8171.2d2fb25e_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 03:46:27 EST --part1_145.20295593.2d2fc463_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carp, I am in Southern California. Thanks for the insights. Excuse my ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everything in a blanket roll. What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clothing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)? How is the blanket roll constructed? Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the items to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the contents and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie them together with some rope or straps. How is it carried then (over the head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body? Sorry to be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do this. Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles". Is this just a separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting bag. What are "possibles"? Thanks again for your patience. --part1_145.20295593.2d2fc463_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carp,

I am in Southern California.  Thanks for the insights.  Excuse my=20= ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everythi= ng in a blanket roll.  What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clot= hing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)?  How is the blanket roll construc= ted?  Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your=20= blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the ite= ms to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the content= s and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie t= hem together with some rope or straps.  How is it carried then (over th= e head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body?  Sorry to= be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do th= is.

Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles".  Is this just a= separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting= bag.  What are "possibles"?

Thanks again for your patience. --part1_145.20295593.2d2fc463_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MunevarL@aol.com Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 09:52:53 EST --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_boundary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary" --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat, Thanks for the information on methods of carrying your gear and insights as to how, in the absence of detailed historical references, to make choices that are reasonably plausible for the period. It sounds like the pack frame is your choice. Do you happen to have any instructions on how to make a pack frame and maybe a picture of the one you use (both loaded down with your gear and without gear)? Have you seen the description of the pack frame in Buckskinning 2? What do you think of it? Finally, you mentioned that you strap 3 bundles to your pack frame: a portmaneau for possibles and 2 canvas rolls and bedding. What do you carry in the portmaneau? What are possibles? (sorry for the elementary questions?) When you say to canvas rolls and bedding what exactly do you mean? Are you simply rolling up your remaing gear in your blanket(s), canvas ground cloth and canvas shelter cloth into two separate rolls and strapping them on? Look forward to your thoughts. Take care. Lou --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pat,

Thanks for the information on methods of carrying your gear and insights as=20= to how, in the absence of detailed historical references, to make choices th= at are reasonably plausible for the period. 

It sounds like the pack frame is your choice.  Do you happen to have an= y instructions on how to make a pack frame and maybe a picture of the one yo= u use (both loaded down with your gear and without gear)?  Have you see= n the description of the pack frame in Buckskinning 2?  What do you thi= nk of it?  Finally, you mentioned that you strap 3 bundles to your pack= frame: a portmaneau for possibles and 2 canvas rolls and bedding.  Wha= t do you carry in the portmaneau?  What are possibles? (sorry for the e= lementary questions?)  When you say to canvas rolls and bedding what ex= actly do you mean? Are you simply rolling up your remaing gear in your blank= et(s), canvas ground cloth and canvas shelter cloth into two separate rolls=20= and strapping them on?

Look forward to your thoughts.  Take care.

Lou

 --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_alt_boundary-- --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (rly-yh04.mail.aol.com [172.18.180.68]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v97.14) with ESMTP id MAILINYH22-2bf3ffe38e323d; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:15:46 -0500 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (v97.10) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINYH43-2bf3ffe38e323d; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:15:20 -0500 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1Aeoz6-0001kk-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:15:00 -0700 Received: from [207.168.191.2] (helo=mail.qsc.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1Aeoz4-0001kU-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 22:14:58 -0700 Received: by EXCHANGE with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:14:55 -0800 Message-ID: <0DB0FC04E63C08499274CFD48DB6253A0417C586@EXCHANGE> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com X-AOL-IP: 198.60.22.7 Good Sir The original journals are remarkably deficient in describing how the mountain men humped their stuff around when they lost their horses. I have seen reference to "heaving our bundles on our backs" without much detail, making me suspect improvised arrangements with tumpline and ropes. I use a primitive pack frame that I made from local materials, and usually carry my stuff in three bundles lashed to this frame - one leather portmanteau (cylindrical case) for my possibles and two rolls of canvas and bedding. I have also used a packbasket for the possibles with bedroll horse-shoed over top. Both seemed to ride OK. Neither is really that historically correct as the original guys always packed by horse or canoe except in emergencies. But I figure anything you can improvise or make in the field is at least "reasonable". I have never used a knapsack but I know some who do and they like theirs OK too. My impression however is that it flops around more and cuts off more air from your back (you will work up a sweat). You will naturally want to lighten your load as much as possible - your water ration is a significant weight burden but important of course. The original mountaineers rarely carried water but we can't depend on drinking out of any old hoofprint like those old boys did. However, if you think you can find any local source at all that you can boil, you could carry less. Your trip is a challenge due to the climate change from mountain to desert since you have to allow for a range of conditions. Hopefully you will be able to make fires which can spare you some degree of bedding. Best of luck Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:47 PM I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method. I have read a little about pack baskets, pack frames, knapsack/haversacks and blanket rolls from the Buckskinning 1 and 2. What do you all use to carry your gear? What works for you given the amount of food, water (2-3 gallons)and bedding required for a trip of this length (starts in the mountains and ends on the desert floor.) Pack baskets seem the easiest but I have read that they make your back and hips sore (is that true?), any success with pack frames, knapsacks/haversacks (are these actually used for jaunts requiring blankets, lean-to cloth, provisions, etc. they seem to small) I would appreciate any advice you would like to share. Thanks, Lou ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html --part1_177.245af2e8.2d301a45_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kim-Ken Carpenter" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 07:51:36 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 1/9/2004 12:46:27 AM Carp, I am in Southern California. Thanks for the insights. Excuse my ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everything in a blanket roll. What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clothing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)? How is the blanket roll constructed? Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the items to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the contents and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie them together with some rope or straps. How is it carried then (over the head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body? Sorry to be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do this. That's it. I put anything flat, dried meat and corn in cloth bags, long underwear, extra pair socks, whatever else, in the blanket roll and tie it with four straps either hemp or leather. Then I tie a shoulder strap and just as you said, sling it over my shoulder so it lay diagonally across my back. I tie bulky items to the outside. You don't want them to flop around cause this will bug the hell out of you while hiking and it may make noise. A great ground cloth can be found, if you are in So Cal, at a good gardeners shop where real Japanese gardeners buy their supplies. They use a cotton duck tarp to gather grass and leaves and it is the perfect size for a ground tarp. Serves the period too (some of the AMM guys can weigh in on that), no grommets just cotton duck with a hem on the perimeter. You can treat it with linseed oil, but be careful of that. Many natural oils will support/cause spontaneous combustion. After treatment you need to make sure it is completely dry. I believe this subject (oiled cloth) has been on the discussion list in the past. Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles". Is this just a separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting bag. What are "possibles"? Yes, I carry minimal shooting accessories in a over the shoulder shooting bag, powder horn attached (riveted) to shooting bag strap. Possibles in a bag hanging on my belt along with a couple of knives, skinning and gutting, that also serve as knives for food preparation and eating. Possibles is a term that means, near as I can tell, and this is what I mean, anything you carry that makes it possible to survive, like flint and steel, tinder, bees wax candle, burning glass (magnifying glass). (This doesn't include motorhome, kitchen sink, microwave, dried beer, etc.:). You need to put your gear together and try it out. Put it all on at home and walk around with it. Your wife and other inhabitants of your abode will think you're nuts if they already don't, but that's OK. You'll know pretty quick what will not work on a long trek. If things are banging you in the knees or back or anywhere else, think about three miles down the trail when said banging has hit target a few hundred times. It will get sore real quick. Get everything snug. Thanks again for your patience. I have the patience, just not the ability to type fast. Again, everything I said works for me. It may take you years to get it completely right for you. I'm almost half a century old and still learning, thank God. I know the California mountains and desert pretty well. What is your intended route? E-mail me off list if you would like - carpentersa5k@earthlink.net BTW - Don't forget about portable soup and coffee for your trek. Good on cold mornings and evenings. Carp ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 1/9/2004 12:46:27 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack??

Carp,

I am in Southern California.  Thanks for the insights.  Excuse my ignorance of terminology and gear but when you say that you carried everything in a blanket roll.  What was carried in the blanket roll (extra clothing, food, corn boiler, cup, spoon)?  How is the blanket roll constructed?  Is it like as follows: 1) lay out your ground cloth, 2) lay your blanket(s) on top, 3) fold blanket in half length wise 4) lay all of the items to be carried on the blanket evenly, 5) roll the blanket over the contents and 6) fold the rolled blanket in half so that the two ends meet and tie them together with some rope or straps.  How is it carried then (over the head and one arm that that it is diagonal across your body?  Sorry to be so anal retentive but I am really trying to understand what how to do this.
That's it.  I put anything flat, dried meat and corn in cloth bags, long underwear, extra pair socks,  whatever else, in the blanket roll and tie it with four straps either hemp or leather.  Then I tie a shoulder strap and just as you said, sling it over my shoulder so it lay diagonally across my back.   I tie bulky items to the outside.  You  don't want them to flop around cause this will bug the hell out of you while hiking and it may make noise.
 
A great ground cloth can be found, if you are in So Cal, at a good gardeners shop where real Japanese gardeners buy their supplies.  They use a cotton duck tarp to gather grass and leaves and it is the perfect size for a ground tarp.  Serves the period too (some of the AMM guys can weigh in on that), no grommets just cotton duck with a hem on the perimeter.  You can treat it with linseed oil, but be careful of that.  Many natural oils will support/cause spontaneous combustion. After treatment you need to make sure it is completely dry.  I believe this subject (oiled cloth) has been on the discussion list in the past.
 

Finally, you said that you also carry your "possibles".  Is this just a separate bag worn over one shoulder or across your chest as with a shooting bag.  What are "possibles"?
 
Yes, I carry minimal shooting accessories in a over the shoulder shooting bag, powder horn attached (riveted) to shooting bag strap.  Possibles in a bag hanging on my belt along with a couple of knives, skinning and gutting, that also serve as knives for food preparation and eating.  Possibles is a term that means, near as I can tell, and this is what I mean, anything you carry that makes it possible to survive, like flint and steel, tinder, bees wax candle, burning glass (magnifying glass).  (This doesn't include motorhome, kitchen sink, microwave, dried beer, etc.:).
You need to put your gear together and try it out.  Put it all on at home and walk around with it.  Your wife and other inhabitants of your abode will think you're nuts if they already don't, but that's OK.  You'll know pretty quick what will not work on a long trek.  If things are banging you in the knees or back or anywhere else, think about three miles down the trail when said banging has hit target a few hundred times.  It will get sore real quick.  Get everything snug.


Thanks again for your patience.
 
I have the patience, just not the ability to type fast.  Again, everything I said works for me.  It may take you years to get it completely right for you.  I'm almost half a century old and still learning, thank God.
 
I know the California mountains and desert pretty well. What is your intended route?  E-mail me off list if you would like - carpentersa5k@earthlink.net
 
BTW - Don't forget about portable soup and coffee for your trek.  Good on cold mornings and evenings.
 
Carp
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 12:37:09 EST --part1_1a3.1f12f630.2d3040c5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/04 7:48:06 PM, MunevarL@aol.com writes: > I am planning a 3-day jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like > advice on how to carry my gear utilizing mountain man era historically > correct method. > > Lou, If your like me, and don't have a horse, or dog, to carry your stuff, then a pack is the one way of getting your gear from here to there. Here's a jpg of a simple frame I made out of willow... pack.jpg (JG Image, 800x600 pixels) http://members.aol.com/swcushing/pack.jpg The cross pieces are inlet to the uprights, glued and lashed with rawhide... and strong enough the survive a couple of trips on the airlines. The shoulder straps (not shown) are attached to the top and bottom cross pieces. I also hand sewed a canvas bag with loops on the top, and ties on the bottom to drop over the fame... The frame is about 15" wide, and 32" long. Is it "period correct".... probably not, but it's not too much of a stretch either. Hope this helps, Magpie --part1_1a3.1f12f630.2d3040c5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/8/04 7:48:06 PM, MunevarL@aol.com writes:


I am planning a 3-day= jaunt 20 miles for the end of March and I would like advice on how to carry= my gear utilizing mountain man era historically correct method.

Lou,

If your like me, and don't have a horse, or dog, to carry your stuff, then a= pack is the one way of getting your gear from here to there. Here's a jpg o= f a simple frame I made out of willow...
pack.jpg (JG Image,= 800x600 pixels)    http://members.aol.com/swcushi= ng/pack.jpg

The cross pieces are inlet to the uprights, glued and lashed with rawhide...= and strong enough the survive a couple of trips on the airlines. The should= er straps (not shown) are attached to the top and bottom cross pieces. I als= o hand sewed a canvas bag with loops on the top, and ties on the bottom to d= rop over the fame... The frame is about 15" wide, and 32" long.

Is it "period correct".... probably not, but it's not too much of a stretch=20= either.

Hope this helps,
Magpie
 --part1_1a3.1f12f630.2d3040c5_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 14:09:18 -0800 Lou, Got a moment so thought I'd dive in here. You've already gotten some good ideas so there isn't much more I can add but I'll say this. If you have room for it, you'll take it. So the smallest way of carrying stuff the better. I can't say I travel as far on foot as many do but what distance I can make, has made me a believer in going very light and without a lot of junk. I really wonder if you need to carry 2 or 3 gallons of water which I think weighs around 8.1 lb per gallon so if that's correct your talking 16 to 24 lbs in water just to start. Most of the guys I've talked to who do a lot of traveling on foot going pc don't carry any water and they have a problem keeping their pack/gear down to 25 lbs. I know I do. Of course that depends on time of year and how much bed and clothing you need to keep warm. But you got to have some rations and at least something to cook in or heat up some water for tea. Your blankets will run about 4/5 lbs each I think. A small sack of dry food stuffs like corn meal, oats, dry fruit, jerky, etc. can run a couple pounds at the least and will only be the lightest if you measure out just exactly what you will consume and take not much more for backup. That's still going to go a few pounds. As to pc ways to pack it? The bed roll using a cross the chest tump line goes way back. it can be uncomfortable if carried too far and is too heavy but it goes on and comes off quick and is simple to use and make up. The cloth knapsack goes way back as does the side hung haversack. It can be more comfortable to wear but not if you make it big and load it down. I think you will find a pack basket to carry too much stuff and be a bit uncomfortable but that is my take. I think they were intended for short trips across a portage and an easy way to keep stuff organized but you don't need a lot of stuff. A pack frame of some sort can help if your carrying a heavy load, that's for sure. And they aren't difficult to make with rawhide and proper sized sticks. I presently use a knap sack that will hold a quart corn boiler, a very small skillet, a sack of dried food about the size of a foot ball, some odds and ends like twine and a candle or two, etc. I keep my dry cloths rolled up in my bed roll which in temperate weather is a couple Whitney blankets at the most, in summer it's a 4 point Whitney and a half blanket. And that roll will hold an extra pair of socks, mocs and a shirt. Maybe a small sack of dry tinder. I tie the bed roll under the knap sack and do not use a frame. It works fairly well. But don't worry about what we carry, think about what you can't live without. Make a list of stuff you just have to carry, figure out whether it will roll up in to a bed roll/tumpline rig or needs an extra knapsack/haversack, etc. Be ruthless on what you leave behind. You really only need one knife, you don't need a hatchet, you can drink out of your corn boiler and don't need that if you live on dry foods like jerky and parched corn, dried fruit. You don't need to carry water if you will be coming to water that just needs cleaning up. AquaPur makes a two tablet water purification system that will purify 50 quarts of water using the tablets in two small insulin sized bottles, about the size of your thumb. And the water tastes fine, no chlorine taste. You just have to have something to mix it in. If it's murky you can settle out the particulates if you have the container to do that in or strain out the big stuff through your silk scarf, etc. then throw in the water purification tables. Probably a good idea to settle out or prestrain water your going to run through a pump too. You don't need 20 rounds and bar lead and etc. for three days no more than you need food for a week. Hopefully this was of help in getting you to thinking about what you want to take and how. Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Gerke" Subject: MtMan-List: Lyman GPR Date: 09 Jan 2004 15:42:10 -0700 I advertised my Lyman GPR flintlock .54 cal on the list a couple weeks ago. I have a sling for this rifle made by Wilde Weavery that I will throw in. Email with questions or call 801-576-0165. Jeff ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 15:39:32 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D709.D5434920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Lou I don't have a picture, but if you look at Magpie's picture you will understand what I did, which is close to Magpie's with some differences. I happened to have a dried yucca stalk about 6-8 feet long and about 3 inches diameter. These dry out and fall over after the plant blooms and dies. The stalk is like balsa wood. I cut it in half lengthwise and got two half-rounds, which I cut up and lashed into a rectangular frame. The verticals and horizontals cross each other and have notches like the logs in a log cabin, with rawhide lashing. The rounded side of the half-rounds face my back, and with the large diameter, it rides pretty comfortably and it's very light. I then added two more crossbars made out of ordinary wood sticks on the side away from my back to lash the load onto. The one real difference vs Magpie's frame is that the ends of these crossbars stick about out about three inches on either side, so you can wrap the lashing ropes around them without passing the rope through the middle of the packframe. This makes tying several bundles much faster. I find that several small bundles ride better than 1-2 larger bundles (once tied down). Incidentally, my frame is a crude thing whacked together with a hatchet and knife, not nearly as nice and neatly finished as Magpie's. I used some left-over buckskin for the shoulder straps. The horse-shoe blanket roll across one shoulder is a classic arrangement but I find it makes me too hot when hiking. I also always had some trouble rolling the larger items in (like cups) without objectionable lumps. Walk with a light outfit on - you will still probably work up a sweat which will make you colder at night. I carry my warm clothes on the pack so I will have something dry to put on after sundown. Wool is good, of course, because it keeps you warm regardless but its better if you're dry. My "possibles" (the various useful articles everyone carries) vary according to the needs and distance - for a rendezvous I struggle in with more goods. water, and food, for distance outings I cut down as much as possible, like Roger described. If I didn't have the portmanteau I could wrap stuff in my bedrolls, but it is handy, and makes a good pillow too. For cold conditions I take two blankets, one tight-woven canvas as a windbreak, and a buffalo-fur jerkin (long vest) for general warmth. I usually omit the second "shelter" canvas and depend on the one I wrap my bedroll in. You can usually find some kind of overhang to sleep under if the weather goes bad, and of course, if travelling in company you can pair up canvases. For summer I can eliminate one blanket. I think I did manage to cut my pack down to 25 lbs once, for a 3-day trek "aux aliments du pays" (living off the land). I had two tin cups to boil tea and cook in, various mending kits and other lightweight knick-knacks, flint and steel, maybe a spare knife, my shooting pouch and gun of course, and the rest was a blanket, canvas, the jerkin, and other minor articles for warmth (I like to sleep with one of those wolf-ear blanket caps to keep my head warm). THAT was easy travelling although I ended up existing on about half-rations, and I knew where I could find water. I made pine-needle tea in camp morning and evening which took care of purification too. You should be able to make your 6-8 miles a day if your country is not too rough, and if you keep your load within your carrying power. Good luck Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:53 AM Pat, Thanks for the information on methods of carrying your gear and insights as to how, in the absence of detailed historical references, to make choices that are reasonably plausible for the period. It sounds like the pack frame is your choice. Do you happen to have any instructions on how to make a pack frame and maybe a picture of the one you use (both loaded down with your gear and without gear)? Have you seen the description of the pack frame in Buckskinning 2? What do you think of it? Finally, you mentioned that you strap 3 bundles to your pack frame: a portmaneau for possibles and 2 canvas rolls and bedding. What do you carry in the portmaneau? What are possibles? (sorry for the elementary questions?) When you say to canvas rolls and bedding what exactly do you mean? Are you simply rolling up your remaing gear in your blanket(s), canvas ground cloth and canvas shelter cloth into two separate rolls and strapping them on? Look forward to your thoughts. Take care. Lou ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D709.D5434920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Lou
   I don't have a picture, but if you look at Magpie's picture you will understand what I did, which is close to Magpie's with some differences.
   I happened to have a dried yucca stalk about 6-8 feet long and about 3 inches diameter. These dry out and fall over after the plant blooms and dies. The stalk is like balsa wood. I cut it in half lengthwise and got two half-rounds, which I cut up and lashed into a rectangular frame. The verticals and horizontals cross each other and have notches like the logs in a log cabin, with rawhide lashing. The rounded side of the half-rounds face my back, and with the large diameter, it rides pretty comfortably and it's very light. I then added two more crossbars made out of ordinary wood sticks on the side away from my back to lash the load onto. The one real difference vs Magpie's frame is that the ends of these crossbars stick about out about three inches on either side, so you can wrap the lashing ropes around them without passing the rope through the middle of the packframe. This makes tying several bundles much faster. I find that several small bundles ride better than 1-2 larger bundles (once tied down). Incidentally, my frame is a crude thing whacked together with a hatchet and knife, not nearly as nice and neatly finished as Magpie's. I used some left-over buckskin for the shoulder straps.
   The horse-shoe blanket roll across one shoulder is a classic arrangement but I find it makes me too hot when hiking. I also always had some trouble rolling the larger items in (like cups) without objectionable lumps. Walk with a light outfit on - you will still probably work up a sweat which will make you colder at night. I carry my warm clothes on the pack so I will have something dry to put on after sundown. Wool is good, of course, because it keeps you warm regardless but its better if you're dry.
   My "possibles" (the various useful articles everyone carries) vary according to the needs and distance - for a rendezvous I struggle in with more goods. water, and food, for distance outings I cut down as much as possible, like Roger described. If I didn't have the portmanteau I could wrap stuff in my bedrolls, but it is handy, and makes a good pillow too. For cold conditions I take two blankets, one tight-woven canvas as a windbreak, and a buffalo-fur jerkin (long vest) for general warmth. I usually omit the second "shelter" canvas and depend on the one I wrap my bedroll in. You can usually find some kind of overhang to sleep under if the weather goes bad, and of course, if travelling in company you can pair up canvases. For summer I can eliminate one blanket. I think I did manage to cut my pack down to 25 lbs once, for a 3-day trek "aux aliments du pays" (living off the land). I had two tin cups to boil tea and cook in, various mending kits and other lightweight knick-knacks, flint and steel, maybe a spare knife, my shooting pouch and gun of course, and the rest was a blanket, canvas, the jerkin, and other minor articles for warmth (I like to sleep with one of those wolf-ear blanket caps to keep my head warm). THAT was easy travelling although I ended up existing on about half-rations, and I knew where I could find water. I made pine-needle tea in camp morning and evening which took care of purification too. You should be able to make your 6-8 miles a day if your country is not too rough, and if you keep your load within your carrying power.
Good luck
Pat Quilter
-----Original Message-----
From: MunevarL@aol.com [mailto:MunevarL@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:53 AM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack??

Pat,

Thanks for the information on methods of carrying your gear and insights as to how, in the absence of detailed historical references, to make choices that are reasonably plausible for the period. 

It sounds like the pack frame is your choice.  Do you happen to have any instructions on how to make a pack frame and maybe a picture of the one you use (both loaded down with your gear and without gear)?  Have you seen the description of the pack frame in Buckskinning 2?  What do you think of it?  Finally, you mentioned that you strap 3 bundles to your pack frame: a portmaneau for possibles and 2 canvas rolls and bedding.  What do you carry in the portmaneau?  What are possibles? (sorry for the elementary questions?)  When you say to canvas rolls and bedding what exactly do you mean? Are you simply rolling up your remaing gear in your blanket(s), canvas ground cloth and canvas shelter cloth into two separate rolls and strapping them on?

Look forward to your thoughts.  Take care.

Lou

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D709.D5434920-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: MtMan-List: Backpacks (Again) Date: 09 Jan 2004 17:46:29 -0600 The subject of backpacks was previously discussed on these pages in 1996 and early 1997. The archives for this list can be searched on Dean Rudy's web site. But if the reader would like to while away some idle minutes, The following is a descriptions of an "experiment" I conducted back then: The previous discussions on these pages about suitable packs for pre-1840 pack-ins evolved to the well-stated conclusion of Mr. James Mahoney that in effect, the mountaineers were horsemen, not backpackers. Therefore, if we jaunt without horseflesh, saddlebags should be the norm. A close-knit group of sometimes jaunters held a pack-in this winter on the Colorado River of Texas. One of the organizers was planning to have a competition for the best mountain man pack. I remembered Mr. Mahoney's conclusion, so I did a little research into what kind of saddlebag might be appropriate. I agree with him, and indeed, traveling on foot was a desperate measure, or the punishment meted out to those who were caught sleeping on their watch, or who where guilty of some other infraction of camp rules. I found one specific reference to a saddlebag used by a fur trader. Charles Larpenter was a clerk, trader, and independent agent on the upper Missouri from 1833 to 1872. He kept a daily journal that provides us a fine window into history. His journals were first published in 1898 as "Forty Years a Fur Trader." A more recent University of Nebraska Press Bison Book was published in 1989. On July 3, 1834 Larpenter wrote: "My load to Fort Union was not very encumbering; my old saddle bags, made of a yard of brown muslin, sewed at both ends with a slit in the middle, containing two red flannel shirts, pretty well worn, and one check shirt, and one old white 3-point blanket, were about all I had brought to Fort Union; my tin pan and cup I left behind." So that sentence was the recipe for my pack. I determined to make such a saddle bag for the jaunt. I followed Larpenter's description and hand-sewed a folded yard of muslin into a sealed envelope. Then I cut an opening across the middle of one side. This allowed me to turn both compartments such formed inside out and hand-sew the exposed cut edges with a whipstitch. The result was a natural-colored muslin saddle bag. My problem was to dye it brown as prescribed by Larpenter. I decided to use oak, a method used by bourbon makers to tint and mellow their product. I chipped an honest quart of live oak, bark and all into a tin bucket using a gasoline-powered beaver. I then added about two gallons of water and brought the mixture to a boil and then extinguished the heat. I put the saddlebag into the concoction overnight and gave it a stir the next morning. To make a permanent dye, a mordant must be used to set the color. I used iron filings from those hand warmer packs that generate heat when first exposed to air. The other ingredient in the hand warmers is powdered charcoal, and I tried to separate the two with a magnet, but after some difficulty, decided this was an unnecessary step. So after 24 total hours I put in three of the hand warmer packs, one of which had been unsealed for some time and had turned to rust. After another night, the saddlebag was dyed a dark brown. I rinsed it out a couple of times, and the final rinse water had no trace of color. When the bag dried, it was a mellow dark brown color with a tinge of gray, and perfect for my purposes. So I evaluated the saddle bag on the pack-in. We drove through practically continuous rain to the departure point, and waited through lunchtime for the rain to subside before shouldering our packs. The rain was replaced by a cold westerly that made me rue the reality that I had forgot to take my long-johns. Well at least the long johns were comfortably cozy in the warmth of home. As far as the saddlebag, it was designed for a horse, and despite any alleged resemblance, my shoulder is only a small fraction of the breadth of a horse's rump. So the bag was continually migrating off that narrow ledge. I rearranged it to drape over my blanket and tarp bedroll, which I carried with the aid of a doubled rope over my shoulder. This was a workable, but painful arrangement that I cannot recommend for a jaunt longer than 5 minutes. That is the time that the rope required to made a painful depression in my shoulder. So I was forced to swap shoulders when the pain exceeded my desire to continue. When I was making my way past some brambles, the saddlebag caught some of the thorns and my forward motion imparted a rip in the top of the bag. These experiences prove to me the sometimes fallibility of using what is referred to as experimental archeology. The goal of that practice is to determine what the mountaineers or long hunters might have done by trying various things on a modern trek under conditions as close as possible to the conditions of the historical period. The saddlebags are a case of something that I proved to be impractical, but is documented as being used by at least one Charles Larpenter. Something does not have to be practical to be authentic. And something practical is not necessarily authentic. Yr. Most Obedient Servant Iron Burner Glenn Darilek ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Schrivener Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 16:17:18 -0800 (PST) --0-168526435-1073693838=:31577 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Roger, how does AuaPur handle chemical contaminants, like fertilizer runoff etc? Some of the areas I hike around in have been contaminated upstream. But, you are dead on with regard to water. I remember the fun I had trying to document a civilian impression water container for a longhunter. There wasn't one. They followed the streams, and drank from them. Why carry it when your paddling on it. :) Wish we could still say the same thing. Todd Missouri Territory "the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes" --0-168526435-1073693838=:31577 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Roger, how does AuaPur handle chemical contaminants, like fertilizer runoff etc?    Some of the areas I hike around in have been contaminated upstream.    But, you are dead on with regard to water.    I remember the fun I had trying to document a civilian impression water container for a longhunter.  There wasn't one.  They followed the streams, and drank from them.   Why carry it when your paddling on it.  :)    Wish we could still say the same thing.  
 
Todd
Missouri Territory
"the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes"
--0-168526435-1073693838=:31577-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Schrivener Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Backpacks (Again) Date: 09 Jan 2004 16:21:24 -0800 (PST) --0-470280768-1073694084=:34040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Glenn, that sounds an awful lot like something called a market wallet in the 1700's. I must profess I tend to portray impressions from pre-1810, and that sounds exactly like one of the more easily documentable methods of lugging stuff around that civilians used. Military and ex-military had a few more options that are real popular with the trekking crowd, but if you weren't military, the odds of you having a military style knapsack were pretty slim. Market wallets and snapsacks were pretty common. Glenn Darilek wrote: On July 3, 1834 Larpenter wrote: "My load to Fort Union was not very encumbering; my old saddle bags, made of a yard of brown muslin, sewed at both ends with a slit in the middle, containing two red flannel shirts, pretty well worn, and one check shirt, and one old white 3-point blanket, were about all I had brought to Fort Union; my tin pan and cup I left behind." --0-470280768-1073694084=:34040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Glenn, that sounds an awful lot like something called a market wallet in the 1700's.   I must profess I tend to portray impressions from pre-1810, and that sounds exactly like one of the more easily documentable methods of lugging stuff around that civilians used.   Military and ex-military had a few more options that are real popular with the trekking crowd, but if you weren't military, the odds of you having a military style knapsack were pretty slim.   Market wallets and snapsacks were pretty common.

Glenn Darilek <glenn@leaklocationservices.com> wrote:

<snip>

 


On July 3, 1834 Larpenter wrote: "My load to Fort Union was
not very encumbering; my old saddle bags, made of a yard of
brown muslin, sewed at both ends with a slit in the middle,
containing two red flannel shirts, pretty well worn, and one
check shirt, and one old white 3-point blanket, were about
all I had brought to Fort Union; my tin pan and cup I left
behind."

</snip>

--0-470280768-1073694084=:34040-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: MtMan-List: Packing water Date: 09 Jan 2004 18:14:27 -0600 Ready to go on an authentic jaunt? As far as carrying water, even on horseback, Alfred Jacob Miller described the custom: "The time is near sunset, -squads are leaving the main band, and rushing for the water, -thirst is overpowering, and human nature can stand it no longer; -there is a general stampede among the horseman; -the team drivers being compelled to remain, headed by our Captain, who would not move a jot from his usual walk, although he had been smoking for the last 3 hours to relieve this inexorable craving;. . . The question may be asked, why we did not take water along with us? The answer is, that it would have been an innovation on established custom. Nobody did any such thing, -it was looked on as effeminate, to say nothing of the ridicule and rough jests with which the reformer would be pelted. YMOS Iron Burner Glenn Darilek ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 09 Jan 2004 18:08:17 -0700 (MST) -it was looked on as effeminate, to say nothing of the > ridicule and rough jests with which the reformer would be > pelted. You're a girly man if you carry water!!! I knew it! I knew it! Man, those where the days! Most people take ten times the gear they need on every trek. Sewing kits, toothbrushes, a spoon, a plate, candle lantern, clean shirt, etc.... Some guys carry more crap in their shooting bag alone then they could use in a year. I recommend taking only your knife, gun, a few rounds, and if you really must live it up, a small kettle for boiling water. Some bedding and dried food. Didn't you say it was two days and 20 miles? You'll be too busy walking anyway. One thing a lot of people don't do is to drink a bunch of water before they leave their rig. I can suck down a half gallon at least before I head out. The best canteen is a man's gut. I drink until I almost burst. I then take it easy on the trail at first until my body absorbs most of it. It usually keeps me set for half a day anyway depending on the weather. I suck it down whenever I have it or find it. And remember what L&C said, if you drink out of a river to dip your cup down deep as the germs float on the surface. Travel early and late, don't sleep in like a bunch of them girly, water packin' mountainmen and cook and rest in the shade during the worse heat of the day. That should save you a pint or two. Don't drink any booze or smoke as that uses water out of your body. That is why I always camp near the second largest river in North America!! Good luck! Greg > Ready to go on an authentic jaunt? As far as carrying water, even on > horseback, Alfred Jacob Miller described the custom: > > "The time is near sunset, -squads are > leaving the main band, and rushing for the water, -thirst is > overpowering, and human nature can stand it no longer; -there > is a general stampede among the horseman; -the team drivers > being compelled to remain, headed by our Captain, who would > not move a jot from his usual walk, although he had been > smoking for the last 3 hours to relieve this inexorable > craving;. . . The question may be asked, why we did not take > water along with us? The answer is, that it would have been > an innovation on established custom. Nobody did any such > thing, -it was looked on as effeminate, to say nothing of the > ridicule and rough jests with which the reformer would be > pelted. > > > YMOS > Iron Burner > Glenn Darilek > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Swimming Date: 09 Jan 2004 18:02:38 -0800 Yep, when you've seen one woman naked....You want to see the rest of them. _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Lyman GPR Date: 09 Jan 2004 18:07:39 -0800 Jeff, I didnt see your ad. How much are you asking? Rick _________________________________________________________________ Find high-speed ‘net deals — comparison-shop your local providers here. https://broadband.msn.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates Date: 09 Jan 2004 23:00:01 EST --part1_12a.39002f4a.2d30d2c1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike, thanks, I have visited and thought i looked through out the site, but maybe I missed it. I attended 3 years ago and had a great time. Frank --part1_12a.39002f4a.2d30d2c1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike,
thanks, I have visited and thought i looked through out the site, but maybe=20= I missed it.  I attended 3 years ago and had a great time.

Frank --part1_12a.39002f4a.2d30d2c1_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Swimming Date: 09 Jan 2004 20:51:55 -0800 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D735.78A0F9C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This is how I understood the development of modern swimming too. I assume they called it the "Australian Crawl" for a reason! The Polynesians were naturals in the water but I didn't know about the Native Americans. Another factor might be that in the 1800's, white Americans had a cultural aversion to taking their clothes off and getting wet all over. This was noted by the Hawaiians during the missionary period. Pat Quilter -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:08 PM I was reading a book called Breakthrough Swimming in which the author spent some time researching swimming in history. He claimed that Europeans used a breast stroke and side stroke but no variation of the crawl or freestyle. However, Native Americans, Australians, and Pacific Islanders were proficeint swimmers using it. Does anyone else know anything more about this subject? If nothing else that might well explain why we read such glowing reports about the abilities of the Indains in water. I know both Catlin and Miller talk about the womens ability to swim. Just a little tidbit for you to give you perspective anyway. Or maybe a new requirement for the Women of the Fur Trade to add to the list. Wynn Ormond ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D735.78A0F9C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
This is how I understood the development of modern swimming too. I assume they called it the "Australian Crawl" for a reason! The Polynesians were naturals in the water but I didn't know about the Native Americans. Another factor might be that in the 1800's, white Americans had a cultural aversion to taking their clothes off and getting wet all over. This was noted by the Hawaiians during the missionary period.
Pat Quilter
-----Original Message-----
From: Wynn Ormond [mailto:cheyenne@pcu.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:08 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Swimming

I was reading a book called Breakthrough Swimming in which the author spent some time researching swimming in history.  He claimed that Europeans used a breast stroke and side stroke but no variation of the crawl or freestyle.  However, Native Americans, Australians, and  Pacific Islanders were proficeint swimmers using it.  Does anyone else know anything more about this subject?  If nothing else that might well explain why we read such glowing reports about the abilities of the Indains in water.  I know both Catlin and Miller talk about the womens ability to swim.  
 
Just a little tidbit for you to give you perspective anyway.  Or maybe a new requirement for the Women of the Fur Trade to add to the list.
Wynn Ormond
 
------_=_NextPart_001_01C3D735.78A0F9C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 09 Jan 2004 21:10:38 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3D6F5.081AC6D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd, Your going to have to drink a lot of water for the runoff contaminants = to kill you. But if that is a concern then get a good filter system. I = really don't think you want to try to carry your gear and 3 gal. of = water too. Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3D6F5.081AC6D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Todd,
 
Your going to have to = drink a lot=20 of water for the runoff contaminants to kill you. But if that is a = concern then=20 get a good filter system. I really don't think you want to try to carry = your=20 gear and 3 gal. of water too.
 
Capt. = Lahti'
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C3D6F5.081AC6D0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packing water Date: 09 Jan 2004 22:25:45 -0800 Iron Burner, "The answer is, that it would have been an innovation on established custom." The next time some latter day mt. man comes up with the idea that his earlier name sake was so self reliant and innovative we'll have to quote him this quote. They were creatures of habit and custom. Thank you for sharing. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 09 Jan 2004 22:35:15 -0800 "And remember what L&C said, if you drink out of a river to dip your cup down deep as the germs float on the surface." And which was so much bull. The bugs get churned up all through the water column in a river or stream. You actually can get relatively bug free water out in the middle of a calm lake as the really bad ones sink. Otherwise I agree with what you advised. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 10 Jan 2004 00:30:29 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C3D710.F3446420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Todd There is a quote in the marks at the bottom of your post. Can you tell = me the source? Thank You Wynn ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Todd Schrivener=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:17 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Roger, how does AuaPur handle chemical contaminants, like fertilizer = runoff etc? Some of the areas I hike around in have been contaminated = upstream. But, you are dead on with regard to water. I remember = the fun I had trying to document a civilian impression water container = for a longhunter. There wasn't one. They followed the streams, and = drank from them. Why carry it when your paddling on it. :) Wish we = could still say the same thing. =20 Todd Missouri Territory "the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes" ------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C3D710.F3446420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Todd
There is a quote in the marks at the = bottom of your=20 post.  Can you tell me the source?  Thank You
Wynn
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Todd=20 Schrivener
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 = 5:17=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Packframe/Pack=20 Basket/Knapsack??

Roger, how does AuaPur handle chemical contaminants, like = fertilizer=20 runoff etc?    Some of the areas I hike around in have = been=20 contaminated upstream.    But, you are dead on with = regard to=20 water.    I remember the fun I had trying to document a = civilian impression water container for a longhunter.  There = wasn't=20 one.  They followed the streams, and drank from them.   = Why=20 carry it when your paddling on it.  :)    Wish we = could=20 still say the same thing.  
 
Todd
Missouri Territory
"the only substitute for good manners is fast=20 reflexes"
------=_NextPart_000_00B0_01C3D710.F3446420-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 10 Jan 2004 00:46:54 -0700 Capt L wrote >. . .that distance I can make, > has made me a believer in going very light and without a lot of junk. > . . . .Most of the guys I've talked to who do a lot of traveling on foot going pc > don't carry any water and they have a problem keeping their pack/gear down > to 25 lbs. I know I do. > Your blankets will run about 4/5 lbs each I think. A small sack of dry food > . . . I presently use a knap sack that will hold a quart corn boiler, a very small > skillet, a sack of dried food about the size of a foot ball, some odds and > ends like twine and a candle or two, etc. I keep my dry cloths rolled up in > my bed roll which in temperate weather is a couple Whitney blankets at the > most, in summer it's a 4 point Whitney and a half blanket. And that roll > will hold an extra pair of socks, mocs and a shirt. Maybe a small sack of > dry tinder. I tie the bed roll under the knap sack and do not use a frame. > It works fairly well. > Well Capt keeping all that plunder your looking to give away in your will, can I recommend my girl friend, gril friend as Cyot had it for some time on his site. If you take her she carries all that stuff for you, she looks good and sings pretty in camp. Most guys that go with her still don't carry that much more stuff than you do cept maybe fresh meat and beverages (not water that wouldn't be authentic). But why would you give all that fine stuff to someone who fetches your wood and cooks when you could give to my girl friend that will carry all your stuff for miles on end with nary a compliant? Wynn ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates Date: 10 Jan 2004 13:40:10 +0000 Frank, It will be August 7-14th this year. mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John.Moyer@UCHSC.edu Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Rocky Mountain College dates Date: 10 Jan 2004 06:53:27 -0700 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of amm1616@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:40 AM Frank, It will be August 7-14th this year. mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Date: 10 Jan 2004 08:18:45 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3D752.5D6FBD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Capt'n said, That may be true if you are only worried about runoff contaminants = and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one mighty ill and = have long term effects that may not be immediately identified with = drinking from a certain stream years earlier. And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in = the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of = 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an = absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered = "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very = "authentic" back then. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3D752.5D6FBD40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Capt'n said,
    <Your going to have to drink a lot of water = for the=20 runoff contaminants =3D
to kill you.>
 
    That may be true if you are only worried about = runoff=20 contaminants and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one = mighty ill=20 and have long term effects that may not be immediately identified with = drinking=20 from a certain stream years earlier.
    And, there are biological contaminants in almost = every=20 waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the = result of=20 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill.
    Use of filters for obtaining water in the = wilderness is=20 an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be = considered=20 "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very=20 "authentic" back then.
Frank
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C3D752.5D6FBD40-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOUBLE EDGE FORGE" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Date: 10 Jan 2004 09:20:14 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3D75A.F46FC520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Anyone familiar with "Beaver Feaver"? Nasty stuff, that..... Go ahead, = drink away. D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Fusco=20 To: list AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:18 AM Subject: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Capt'n said, That may be true if you are only worried about runoff contaminants = and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one mighty ill and = have long term effects that may not be immediately identified with = drinking from a certain stream years earlier. And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in = the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of = 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an = absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered = "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very = "authentic" back then. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3D75A.F46FC520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Anyone familiar with "Beaver = Feaver"? Nasty=20 stuff, that..... Go ahead, drink away.
 
D
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Frank Fusco
Sent: Saturday, January 10, = 2004 9:18=20 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: packframe, = now=20 water

Capt'n said,
    <Your going to have to drink a lot of water = for the=20 runoff contaminants =3D
to kill you.>
 
    That may be true if you are only worried about = runoff=20 contaminants and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one = mighty=20 ill and have long term effects that may not be immediately identified = with=20 drinking from a certain stream years earlier.
    And, there are biological contaminants in = almost every=20 waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the = result of=20 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill.
    Use of filters for obtaining water in the = wilderness=20 is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be = considered=20 "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very=20 "authentic" back then.
Frank
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C3D75A.F46FC520-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 07:24:43 -0700 (MST) Capt., Bull?!! I know it is BS, I just love that line about dipping deep. It shows how absurdly the guys thought back then, like being considered effeminate for packing water which we all do. Yes, I'm a water packing sissy too, I admit it. I'll drink to that. You probably think possums mating through the nose is BS too! bb > "And > remember what L&C said, if you drink out of a river to dip your cup > down deep as the germs float on the surface." > > And which was so much bull. The bugs get churned up all through the water > column in a river or stream. You actually can get relatively bug free > water > out in the middle of a calm lake as the really bad ones sink. > > Otherwise I agree with what you advised. > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Date: 10 Jan 2004 07:39:52 -0700 (MST) Most all know about beaver feaver. Here in Montana where there are tons of beaver, I pack water for that reason or have a good quality filter as I'm not sure boiling water kills giardia. I have boiled water for 10 minutes before and seemed to be fine but prefer packing it over muddy creek water. If there ain't beaver up here, there's cattle. I'll pack it or filter it. bb > Anyone familiar with "Beaver Feaver"? Nasty stuff, that..... Go ahead, > drink away. > > D > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank Fusco > To: list AMM > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:18 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: packframe, now water > > > Capt'n said, > contaminants to kill you.> > > That may be true if you are only worried about runoff contaminants > and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one mighty ill > and have long term effects that may not be immediately identified > with drinking from a certain stream years earlier. > And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in > the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of > 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. > Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an > absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be > considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying > young was very "authentic" back then. > Frank ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: MtMan-List: giardia Date: 10 Jan 2004 08:14:45 -0700 --------------010609000806090604060809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand that giardia, one of those nasty diseases, was not in the country until lately. I used to drink out of open water when I worked in the mountains all of one summer in the 70s. I read in an old publication that the water infected with giardia was in an isolated area in Nepal, correct me if my source was wrong. Sparks roger lahti wrote: > Todd, > > Your going to have to drink a lot of water for the runoff contaminants > to kill you. But if that is a concern then get a good filter system. I > really don't think you want to try to carry your gear and 3 gal. of > water too. > > Capt. Lahti' > > --------------010609000806090604060809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand that giardia, one of those nasty diseases, was not in the country until lately.  I used to drink out of open water when I worked in the mountains all of one summer in the 70s.  I read in an old publication that the water infected with giardia was in an isolated area in Nepal, correct me if my source was wrong.  
Sparks


roger lahti wrote:
Todd,
 
Your going to have to drink a lot of water for the runoff contaminants to kill you. But if that is a concern then get a good filter system. I really don't think you want to try to carry your gear and 3 gal. of water too.
 
Capt. Lahti'
 
 

--------------010609000806090604060809-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 10 Jan 2004 09:32:41 -0800 Wynn, I would not think to deprive you of her company. Not a gentlemanly thing to do at all. Having someone who has no real value to another bond themselves to me by their own free will seems much more fair and sporting. And if they do not perform, dismissing them will be much more easy than turning out a young maiden. I confess I have a weak spot for the ladies and could not let one go regardless of the provocation, thus I would find myself so encumbered with numbers of them that I could not feed them or house them properly and I hate to see a lady go hungry or cold. Besides my wife would protest vigorously. Therein lies the danger. I'll go as light as I can as far as I can and make camp alone or with a "male" partner thank you. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Date: 10 Jan 2004 09:51:38 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3D75F.575D40A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The young man contacted me off list and I most assuredly recommended a = pump as first choice.=20 Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DOUBLE EDGE FORGE=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:20 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Anyone familiar with "Beaver Feaver"? Nasty stuff, that..... Go ahead, = drink away. D ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Fusco=20 To: list AMM=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 9:18 AM Subject: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Capt'n said, That may be true if you are only worried about runoff = contaminants and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one = mighty ill and have long term effects that may not be immediately = identified with drinking from a certain stream years earlier. And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway = in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of = 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an = absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered = "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very = "authentic" back then. Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3D75F.575D40A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The young man = contacted me off=20 list and I most assuredly recommended a pump as first choice. =
 
Capt. = Lahti'
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DOUBLE EDGE=20 FORGE
Sent: Saturday, January 10, = 2004 6:20=20 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = packframe, now=20 water

Anyone familiar with "Beaver = Feaver"?=20 Nasty stuff, that..... Go ahead, drink away.
 
D
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Frank Fusco
Sent: Saturday, January 10, = 2004 9:18=20 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: = packframe, now=20 water

Capt'n said,
    <Your going to have to drink a lot of = water for=20 the runoff contaminants =3D
to kill you.>
 
    That may be true if you are only worried = about=20 runoff contaminants and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can = make one=20 mighty ill and have long term effects that may not be immediately = identified=20 with drinking from a certain stream years earlier.
    And, there are biological contaminants in = almost=20 every waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not = be the=20 result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill.
    Use of filters for obtaining water in the = wilderness=20 is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be = considered=20 "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was = very=20 "authentic" back then.
Frank
------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C3D75F.575D40A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 10:00:31 -0800 bb, Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all but the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are folks listening who might actually believe it to be true. I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source to determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and can't pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places that I choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made safe. I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with you if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing water was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the history and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted as wise to copy. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Possums !!! Date: 10 Jan 2004 10:24:33 -0800 (PST) --0-452627588-1073759073=:88862 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Poss The Capt. said "I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with you if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. " Capt, I know BB is "kinda" wrong, as possums do not breed thru the nose, but the male deposits it in the nose and the female then blows her nose in to the vigina to deposit the sperm.< Verry Big GRIN> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-452627588-1073759073=:88862 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Poss

The Capt. said
"I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with you
if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. "

 Capt, I know BB is "kinda" wrong, as possums do not breed thru the nose, but the male deposits it in the nose and the female then blows her nose in to the vigina to deposit the sperm.< Verry Big GRIN>

hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html



George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-452627588-1073759073=:88862-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possums !!! Date: 10 Jan 2004 12:23:13 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C3D774.84834740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, Just how many opossums are involved?! Capt. L ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C3D774.84834740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
 
Just how many opossums = are=20 involved?!
 
Capt. L
 
  ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01C3D774.84834740-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 13:55:54 -0700 (MST) Capt. I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water dipping and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then. I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list means well. I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum oxygen bottles back then!" I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles. Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap sack to make them look historical. That a tip from your old friend, bb > bb, > > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all but > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are folks > listening who might actually believe it to be true. > > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source to > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and > can't > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places that > I > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made > safe. > > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with > you > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. > > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing > water > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the > history > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted as > wise to copy. > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Fred Miller Subject: Re: MtMan-List: giardia Date: 10 Jan 2004 15:56:38 -0500 On Saturday 10 January 2004 10:14 am, James and Sue Stone wrote: > I understand that giardia, one of those nasty diseases, was not in the > country until lately. I used to drink out of open water when I worked > in the mountains all of one summer in the 70s. I read in an old > publication that the water infected with giardia was in an isolated area > in Nepal, correct me if my source was wrong. I don't know about it being in Nepal, but the lil' critters ARE in a lot of our "remote" water from what I've read. Fred -- "...Linux, MS-DOS, and Windows XP (also known as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly)." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possums !!! Date: 10 Jan 2004 14:17:51 -0800 (PST) --0-1868959822-1073773071=:66113 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii roger lahti wrote:George, Just how many opossums are involved?! Capt. L Capt. L. It only takes one male and one female. Now for the rest of the story !! Opossums are Marsupials, and therefor are "kinda" primative in development sexually. The female has two overies and each comes all the way to the vigina in a separate tube. however, only one seems to produce eggs at a time. The male not knowing which one , has a penis that is "forked" and deposits sperm into each one, at a mateing. The female as she is going out of "season" will go out on a limb and turn faceing toward the male , her rear toward the tips of the of the limb. The male still trying to breed will aproch her and "work" on her front end insted of the "other", not being able to get to the rear. The "old timer" possoum hunters , shining their lights up in the tree observing this and seeing the "forked" end working toward the nose, assumed he was depositing the sperm in the nose, and she had to "blow" in in the other end. Nuff said ?? George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1868959822-1073773071=:66113 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> wrote:
George,
 
Just how many opossums are involved?!
 
Capt. L
 
 

Capt. L.

It only takes one male and one female. 

Now for the rest of the story !! Opossums  are Marsupials, and therefor are "kinda" primative in development sexually. The female has two overies and each comes all the way to the vigina in a separate tube. however, only one seems to produce eggs at a time.

 The male not knowing which one , has a penis that is "forked" and deposits sperm into each one, at a mateing.

 The female as she is going out of "season" will go out on a limb and turn  faceing toward the   male , her rear toward the tips of the of the limb. The male still trying to breed will aproch her and "work" on her front end insted of the "other", not being able to get to the rear.

 The "old timer" possoum hunters , shining their lights up in the tree observing this and seeing the "forked"  end working toward the nose, assumed he was depositing the sperm in the nose, and she had to "blow" in in the other end.

 

Nuff said ??

 <grin>



George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1868959822-1073773071=:66113-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: giardia Date: 10 Jan 2004 16:10:23 -0700 --------------030500060507020102010300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred, My understanding is that once it was imported from Nepal by tourists, it spread widely. Since it can be carried by "any warm blooded mammal," you have to make sure a vole or mouse can't get upstream of you. Tall order. The only good thing about it is its 10 and 21-day incubation period; so most people develop symptoms while at home and near a doctor, rather than in a line shack 60 miles from the trailhead. Sparks Fred Miller wrote: >On Saturday 10 January 2004 10:14 am, James and Sue Stone wrote: > > >>I understand that giardia, one of those nasty diseases, was not in the >>country until lately. I used to drink out of open water when I worked >>in the mountains all of one summer in the 70s. I read in an old >>publication that the water infected with giardia was in an isolated area >>in Nepal, correct me if my source was wrong. >> >> > >I don't know about it being in Nepal, but the lil' critters ARE in a lot of >our "remote" water from what I've read. > >Fred > > > --------------030500060507020102010300 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred,
My understanding is that once it was imported from Nepal by tourists, it spread widely.  Since it can be carried by "any warm blooded mammal," you have to make sure a vole or mouse can't get upstream of you.  Tall order.  The only good thing about it is its 10 and 21-day incubation period; so most people develop symptoms while at home and near a doctor, rather than in a line shack 60 miles from the trailhead.
Sparks

Fred Miller wrote:
On Saturday 10 January 2004 10:14 am, James and Sue Stone wrote:
  
I understand that giardia, one of those nasty diseases, was not in the
country until lately.  I used to drink out of open water when I worked
in the mountains all of one summer in the 70s.  I read in an old
publication that the water infected with giardia was in an isolated area
in Nepal, correct me if my source was wrong.
    

I don't know about it being in Nepal, but the lil' critters ARE in a lot of 
our "remote" water from what I've read.

Fred

--------------030500060507020102010300-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 15:31:38 -0800 bb, Thanks for the idea on the compressed water in old air tanks. We used high pressure tanks so we could carry a longer supply of air on the trucks. They were wrapped with glass fiber or Kevlar, not sure which now and while very light they were also very strong. I think I can get some of those old tanks from city shops excess. Fill them with water under great pressure and then counter the extra weight with helium. According to my calculations I should be able to get 10 gallons of water in one 3 gallon tank and with the helium reduce it's weight to a negative 5 lbs. thus making it lighter than air and able to reduce my pack load by 5 lbs. It will add bulk but wrapped in burlap as you suggest it will look like another package of goods on top of my knapsack. I think I may experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up. See ya on the trail my friend. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM > Capt. > I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water dipping > and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then. > I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list > means well. > I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen > bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles > then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially > when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because > everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum > oxygen bottles back then!" > I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you > have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the > whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles. > Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap > sack to make them look historical. > That a tip from your old friend, > bb > > > > bb, > > > > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all but > > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are folks > > listening who might actually believe it to be true. > > > > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source to > > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and > > can't > > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places that > > I > > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made > > safe. > > > > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with > > you > > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. > > > > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing > > water > > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the > > history > > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted as > > wise to copy. > > > > YMOS > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 15:51:26 -0800 (PST) --0-1057126512-1073778686=:83946 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Capt. Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg" . I think I may experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up. See ya on the trail my friend. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM > Capt. > I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water dipping > and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then. > I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list > means well. > I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen > bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles > then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially > when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because > everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum > oxygen bottles back then!" > I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you > have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the > whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles. > Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap > sack to make them look historical. > That a tip from your old friend, > bb > > > > bb, > > > > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all but > > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are folks > > listening who might actually believe it to be true. > > > > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source to > > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and > > can't > > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places that > > I > > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made > > safe. > > > > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with > > you > > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. > > > > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing > > water > > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the > > history > > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted as > > wise to copy. > > > > YMOS > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1057126512-1073778686=:83946 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Capt.
 Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg"
. I think I may
experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be
used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up.

See ya on the trail my friend.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy


> Capt.
> I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water dipping
> and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then.
> I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list
> means well.
> I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen
> bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles
> then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially
> when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because
> everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum
> oxygen bottles back then!"
> I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you
> have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the
> whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles.
> Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap
> sack to make them look historical.
> That a tip from your old friend,
> bb
>
>
> > bb,
> >
> > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all
but
> > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are
folks
> > listening who might actually believe it to be true.
> >
> > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source
to
> > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and
> > can't
> > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places
that
> > I
> > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made
> > safe.
> >
> > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with
> > you
> > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one.
> >
> > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing
> > water
> > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the
> > history
> > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted
as
> > wise to copy.
> >
> > YMOS
> > Capt. Lahti'
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1057126512-1073778686=:83946-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possums !!! Date: 10 Jan 2004 16:00:51 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C3D792.EBA7DDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, I'll go out on a limb and agree that this is enough. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Noe=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 2:17 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possums !!! roger lahti wrote:=20 George, Just how many opossums are involved?! Capt. L Capt. L. It only takes one male and one female. =20 Now for the rest of the story !! Opossums are Marsupials, and = therefor are "kinda" primative in development sexually. The female has = two overies and each comes all the way to the vigina in a separate tube. = however, only one seems to produce eggs at a time. The male not knowing which one , has a penis that is "forked" and = deposits sperm into each one, at a mateing. The female as she is going out of "season" will go out on a limb and = turn faceing toward the male , her rear toward the tips of the of the = limb. The male still trying to breed will aproch her and "work" on her = front end insted of the "other", not being able to get to the rear. The "old timer" possoum hunters , shining their lights up in the tree = observing this and seeing the "forked" end working toward the nose, = assumed he was depositing the sperm in the nose, and she had to "blow" = in in the other end. Nuff said ?? George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >=20 Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C3D792.EBA7DDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
 
I'll go out on a = limb and=20 agree that this is enough.
 
Capt. = Lahti'
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George = Noe
Sent: Saturday, January 10, = 2004 2:17=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Possums=20 !!!



roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> = wrote:=20
George,
 
Just how many = opossums are=20 involved?!
 
Capt. = L
 
 

Capt. L.

It only takes one male and one female. 

Now for the rest of the story !! Opossums  are Marsupials, and = therefor are "kinda" primative in development sexually. The = female has=20 two overies and each comes all the way to the vigina in a separate = tube.=20 however, only one seems to produce eggs at a time.

 The male not knowing which one , has a penis that is "forked" = and=20 deposits sperm into each one, at a mateing.

 The female as she is going out of "season" will go out on a = limb and=20 turn  faceing toward the   male , her rear = toward the=20 tips of the of the limb. The male still trying to breed will aproch = her and=20 "work" on her front end insted of the "other", not being able to get = to the=20 rear.

 The "old timer" possoum hunters , shining their lights = up in the=20 tree observing this and seeing the "forked"  end working = toward the=20 nose, assumed he was depositing the sperm in the nose, and she had to = "blow"=20 in in the other end.

 

Nuff said ??

 <grin>



George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com = >=20
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Ente= r=20 the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01C3D792.EBA7DDF0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: now water Date: 10 Jan 2004 16:25:33 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I got sick from a bug in the water (would have cost more to test for which kind, so didn't test (giardia ?). This was 14 years ago- it cost $40 for the Dr., $40 for perscription to keep my guts from trying to turn themselves inside out, to let me get more than 20 ft. from a toilet, from keeping me from completely dehydrating, etc.... etc..... The ceramic filter pump that filters out down to .5 micron, which includes any living organism, heavy metals, radioactive isotopes, etc...... cost $65. I should have bought the filter in the first place. It would have been cheaper, and saved me much suffering before I finally went to the Dr.. In my opinion, buy a good filter and use it if in doubt of water source. The pump/filters are more expensive (but often better) these days, but the Dr.s and perscriptions cost more too. My 2 cents. hardtack And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very "authentic" back then. Frank ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
I got sick from a bug in the water (would have cost more to test for which kind, so didn't test (giardia ?).  This was 14 years ago- it cost $40 for the Dr., $40 for perscription to keep my guts from trying to turn themselves inside out, to let me get more than 20 ft. from a toilet, from keeping me from completely dehydrating, etc.... etc.....   The ceramic filter pump that filters out down to .5 micron, which includes any living organism, heavy metals, radioactive isotopes, etc......  cost $65.  I should have bought the filter in the first place.  It would have been cheaper, and saved me much suffering before I finally went to the Dr.. In my opinion, buy a good filter and use it if in doubt of water source.  The pump/filters are more expensive (but often better) these days, but the Dr.s  and perscriptions cost more too.   My 2 cents.   hardtack
 
 
    And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill.
    Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very "authentic" back then.
Frank
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 16:08:59 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C3D794.0E94A4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, I think as long as I don't use it to talk funny around the camp fire I = should be ok. Capt. L ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Noe=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 3:51 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Capt. Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg" . I think I may experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and = could be used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up. See ya on the trail my friend. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From:=20 To:=20 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy > Capt. > I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water = dipping > and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back = then. > I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list > means well. > I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft = oxygen > bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles > then weigh ten times more which is something to consider = especially > when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water = because > everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have = aluminum > oxygen bottles back then!" > I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you > have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the > whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water = bottles. > Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a = burlap > sack to make them look historical. > That a tip from your old friend, > bb > > > > bb, > > > > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you = at all but > > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There = are folks > > listening who might actually believe it to be true. > > > &g! t; I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's = water source to > > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I = don't and > > can't > > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some = places that > > I > > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can = be made > > safe. > > > > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play = along with > > you > > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one.=20 > > > > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that = packing > > water > > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of = the > > history > > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not = promoted as > > wise to copy. > > > > YMOS > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > >! > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >=20 Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C3D794.0E94A4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
 
I think as long as I = don't use it=20 to talk funny around the camp fire I should be ok.
 
Capt. L
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George = Noe
Sent: Saturday, January 10, = 2004 3:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water = Packing=20 Sissy

Capt.
 Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg"
.=20 I think I may
experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well = and could=20 be
used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used = up.

See ya on the trail my friend.

YMOS
Capt.=20 Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
From:=20
To: =
Sent:=20 Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: = Water=20 Packing Sissy


> Capt.
> I perceived you = correctly. I was=20 only kidding about the water dipping
> and possum mating, = though this=20 was believed by some or all back then.
> I didn't take it as = an attack=20 at all. I know everyone on the list
> means well.
> I = personally=20 compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen
> = bottles and=20 can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles
> then = weigh=20 ten times more which is something to consider especially
> = when on=20 foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because
> = everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have = aluminum
>=20 oxygen bottles back then!"
> I've tried cans of evaporated = water (like=20 evaporated milk) but you
> have to carry more cans of water to = cut it=20 with thus defeating the
> whole purpose. So I went back to the = compressed oxygen/water bottles.
> Which can bought at most = Army/Navy=20 stores. Just wrap them in a burlap
> sack to make them look=20 historical.
> That a tip from your old friend,
>=20 bb
>
>
> > bb,
> >
> > = Hopefully you=20 perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at = all
but
> >=20 the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There=20 are
folks
> > listening who might actually believe it to = be=20 true.
> >
> &g! t; I pack some water too. And I = check my=20 destination and it's water source
to
> > determine how I = am=20 going to deal with the need for water. I don't and
> >=20 can't
> > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So = there are=20 some places
that
> > I
> > choose not to visit = for lack=20 of a suitable water supply that can be made
> > = safe.
>=20 >
> > I know nothing about possums and how they breed = but will=20 play along with
> > you
> > if you wish to "fish" = someone=20 in on that one.
> >
> > While it is pointed = out by=20 many students of the fur trade that packing
> > = water
> >=20 was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of = the
>=20 > history
> > and does not reflect what most of us do in = practice and is not promoted
as
> > wise to = copy.
>=20 >
> > YMOS
> > Capt. Lahti'
> = >
>=20 >
>! > ----------------------
> > hist_text = list info:=20 http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>=20 >
>
>
> ----------------------
> = hist_text list=20 info:=20 = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


-----------= -----------
hist_text=20 list info:=20 = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

=
George=20 R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep = your eyes=20 on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Ente= r=20 the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------=_NextPart_000_00D3_01C3D794.0E94A4A0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larson Harsey Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 16:23:15 -0800 (PST) --0-1150410679-1073780595=:7575 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've been reading and learning from the list so much it makes my head spin sometimes. I knowledge shared hear is beyond anythign I ever hoped fur. I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need it. I think I'll start packing meat and compress it in straws, hide them in some reed stalks and roast them like fresh corn. I can't wait to try. Thanks for the seeds, they'll keep gowing I'm sure. roger lahti wrote:bb, Thanks for the idea on the compressed water in old air tanks. We used high pressure tanks so we could carry a longer supply of air on the trucks. They were wrapped with glass fiber or Kevlar, not sure which now and while very light they were also very strong. I think I can get some of those old tanks from city shops excess. Fill them with water under great pressure and then counter the extra weight with helium. According to my calculations I should be able to get 10 gallons of water in one 3 gallon tank and with the helium reduce it's weight to a negative 5 lbs. thus making it lighter than air and able to reduce my pack load by 5 lbs. It will add bulk but wrapped in burlap as you suggest it will look like another package of goods on top of my knapsack. I think I may experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up. See ya on the trail my friend. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM > Capt. > I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water dipping > and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then. > I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list > means well. > I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen > bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles > then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially > when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because > everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum > oxygen bottles back then!" > I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you > have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the > whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles. > Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap > sack to make them look historical. > That a tip from your old friend, > bb > > > > bb, > > > > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all but > > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are folks > > listening who might actually believe it to be true. > > > > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source to > > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and > > can't > > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places that > > I > > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made > > safe. > > > > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with > > you > > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. > > > > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing > > water > > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the > > history > > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted as > > wise to copy. > > > > YMOS > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1150410679-1073780595=:7575 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I've been reading and learning from the list so much it makes my head spin sometimes.  I knowledge shared hear is beyond anythign I ever hoped fur.  I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need it.  I think I'll start packing meat and compress it in straws, hide them in some reed stalks and roast them like fresh corn.  I can't wait to try.  Thanks for the seeds, they'll keep gowing I'm sure. 

roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> wrote:
bb,

Thanks for the idea on the compressed water in old air tanks. We used high
pressure tanks so we could carry a longer supply of air on the trucks. They
were wrapped with glass fiber or Kevlar, not sure which now and while very
light they were also very strong.

I think I can get some of those old tanks from city shops excess. Fill them
with water under great pressure and then counter the extra weight with
helium. According to my calculations I should be able to get 10 gallons of
water in one 3 gallon tank and with the helium reduce it's weight to a
negative 5 lbs. thus making it lighter than air and able to reduce my pack
load by 5 lbs. It will add bulk but wrapped in burlap as you suggest it will
look like another package of goods on top of my knapsack. I think I may
experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be
used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up.

See ya on the trail my friend.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy


> Capt.
> I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water dipping
> and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then.
> I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list
> means well.
> I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen
> bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles
> then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially
> when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because
> everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum
> oxygen bottles back then!"
> I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you
> have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the
> whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles.
> Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap
> sack to make them look historical.
> That a tip from your old friend,
> bb
>
>
> > bb,
> >
> > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all
but
> > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are
folks
> > listening who might actually believe it to be true.
> >
> > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water source
to
> > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and
> > can't
> > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places
that
> > I
> > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be made
> > safe.
> >
> > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along with
> > you
> > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one.
> >
> > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing
> > water
> > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the
> > history
> > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not promoted
as
> > wise to copy.
> >
> > YMOS
> > Capt. Lahti'
> >
> >
> > ----------------------
> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
> >
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1150410679-1073780595=:7575-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 16:31:05 -0800 I like the compressed water thing.. .. gonna try it.. I have a tight wooden keg.... > > I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen > bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles > then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially > when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because > everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum > oxygen bottles back then!" > I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you > have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the > whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles. > Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap > sack to make them look historical. > That a tip from your old friend, > bb > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now water Date: 10 Jan 2004 17:59:47 -0700 --------------080708070206050604050509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the sickest events I have had is on bad water. Mid seventies, visiting a friend at a very old house. I got water out of the tap, and downed it. A minute later someone said, "where did you get the water you just drank?" I said from the tap, the answer was something like, "Be it unto you according to your faith." Someone explained the house really had no culinary water system, they just had a gravity feed collection point "uphill." Several days later I ws doubled over. Sparks Randal Bublitz wrote: > I got sick from a bug in the water (would have cost more to test for > which kind, so didn't test (giardia ?). This was 14 years ago- it > cost $40 for the Dr., $40 for perscription to keep my guts from trying > to turn themselves inside out, to let me get more than 20 ft. from a > toilet, from keeping me from completely dehydrating, etc.... > etc..... The ceramic filter pump that filters out down to .5 micron, > which includes any living organism, heavy metals, radioactive > isotopes, etc...... cost $65. I should have bought the filter in the > first place. It would have been cheaper, and saved me much suffering > before I finally went to the Dr.. In my opinion, buy a good filter and > use it if in doubt of water source. The pump/filters are more > expensive (but often better) these days, but the Dr.s and > perscriptions cost more too. My 2 cents. hardtack > > > > And, there are biological contaminants in almost every > waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be > the result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. > Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an > absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be > considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying > young was very "authentic" back then. > Frank > --------------080708070206050604050509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the sickest events I have had is on bad water.  Mid seventies, visiting a friend at a very old house.  I got water out of the tap, and downed it.  A minute later someone said, "where did you get the water you just drank?"  I said from the tap, the answer was something like, "Be it unto you according to your faith."  Someone explained the house really had no culinary water system, they just had a gravity feed collection point "uphill."  Several days later I ws doubled over.
Sparks

Randal Bublitz wrote:
I got sick from a bug in the water (would have cost more to test for which kind, so didn't test (giardia ?).  This was 14 years ago- it cost $40 for the Dr., $40 for perscription to keep my guts from trying to turn themselves inside out, to let me get more than 20 ft. from a toilet, from keeping me from completely dehydrating, etc.... etc.....   The ceramic filter pump that filters out down to .5 micron, which includes any living organism, heavy metals, radioactive isotopes, etc......  cost $65.  I should have bought the filter in the first place.  It would have been cheaper, and saved me much suffering before I finally went to the Dr.. In my opinion, buy a good filter and use it if in doubt of water source.  The pump/filters are more expensive (but often better) these days, but the Dr.s  and perscriptions cost more too.   My 2 cents.   hardtack
 
 
    And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill.
    Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very "authentic" back then.
Frank

--------------080708070206050604050509-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DOUBLE EDGE FORGE" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 20:01:36 -0500 I will pay a bounty for a video of Hardtack blowing into his keg to compress the air... D ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 7:31 PM > I like the compressed water thing.. .. gonna try it.. I have a tight > wooden keg.... ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 10 Jan 2004 20:46:17 -0800 D, the secret is compressing the liquid........ hardtack > [Original Message] > From: DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > To: > Date: 1/10/04 5:02:16 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy > > I will pay a bounty for a video of Hardtack blowing into his keg to compress > the air... > D > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randal Bublitz" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 7:31 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy > > > > I like the compressed water thing.. .. gonna try it.. I have a tight > > wooden keg.... > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 11 Jan 2004 05:15:05 +0000 Oh man where's my shovel????? Its sure getting deep in here tonight! >From: "roger lahti" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy >Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:31:38 -0800 > >bb, > >Thanks for the idea on the compressed water in old air tanks. We used high >pressure tanks so we could carry a longer supply of air on the trucks. They >were wrapped with glass fiber or Kevlar, not sure which now and while very >light they were also very strong. > >I think I can get some of those old tanks from city shops excess. Fill them >with water under great pressure and then counter the extra weight with >helium. According to my calculations I should be able to get 10 gallons of >water in one 3 gallon tank and with the helium reduce it's weight to a >negative 5 lbs. thus making it lighter than air and able to reduce my pack >load by 5 lbs. It will add bulk but wrapped in burlap as you suggest it >will >look like another package of goods on top of my knapsack. I think I may >experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could >be >used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up. > >See ya on the trail my friend. > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 12:55 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy > > > > Capt. > > I perceived you correctly. I was only kidding about the water >dipping > > and possum mating, though this was believed by some or all back then. > > I didn't take it as an attack at all. I know everyone on the list > > means well. > > I personally compress my water in old yellow colored aircraft oxygen > > bottles and can then carry ten times the water, though the bottles > > then weigh ten times more which is something to consider especially > > when on foot. But I didn't want to bring up compressed water because > > everyone would say,"Hey! That's not right! They didn't have aluminum > > oxygen bottles back then!" > > I've tried cans of evaporated water (like evaporated milk) but you > > have to carry more cans of water to cut it with thus defeating the > > whole purpose. So I went back to the compressed oxygen/water bottles. > > Which can bought at most Army/Navy stores. Just wrap them in a burlap > > sack to make them look historical. > > That a tip from your old friend, > > bb > > > > > > > bb, > > > > > > Hopefully you perceived correctly that I was not attacking you at all >but > > > the "Captains" contention that such a practice was valid. There are >folks > > > listening who might actually believe it to be true. > > > > > > I pack some water too. And I check my destination and it's water >source >to > > > determine how I am going to deal with the need for water. I don't and > > > can't > > > pack enough water for a weekend on my back. So there are some places >that > > > I > > > choose not to visit for lack of a suitable water supply that can be >made > > > safe. > > > > > > I know nothing about possums and how they breed but will play along >with > > > you > > > if you wish to "fish" someone in on that one. > > > > > > While it is pointed out by many students of the fur trade that packing > > > water > > > was considered effeminate, it is only offered in the context of the > > > history > > > and does not reflect what most of us do in practice and is not >promoted >as > > > wise to copy. > > > > > > YMOS > > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > > hist_text list info: >http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now water Date: 11 Jan 2004 13:49:38 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/2004 4:22:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, rjbublitz@earthlink.net writes: buy a good filter and use it if in doubt of water source Randy (and others), Any suggestions as to what type (brand) of filters work best, don't clog up easily or cost a fortune to replace the innerds? Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/10/2004 4:22:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, rjbublit= z@earthlink.net writes:
buy a good filter and use i= t if in doubt of water source
Randy (and others)= , Any suggestions as to what type (brand) of filters work best, don't c= log up easily or cost a fortune to replace the innerds?   Barney
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 11 Jan 2004 13:51:49 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/10/2004 5:02:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, deforge1@bright.net writes: to compress the air... compressing air is easy...... try compressing water! Barn Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/10/2004 5:02:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, deforge1= @bright.net writes:
to compress
the air...<GG>
compressing air is= easy...... try compressing water!  Barn
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Gerke" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Lyman GPR Date: 11 Jan 2004 14:57:49 -0500 Rick, I am asking $275 and will include the shipping if it is reasonable. This i= nlcudes a spare ramrod and a sling made by Wilde Weavery. The rifle is abo= ut a year old. It is in great shape except for a couple areas on the stock= that have some light wear. I can send some pictures if you are interested= . Jeff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Jeff, > I didnt see your ad. How much are you asking? > Rick > >_________________________________________________________________ >Find high-speed =91net deals =97 comparison-shop your local providers here= . >https://broadband.msn.com > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: amm1616@comcast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now water Date: 11 Jan 2004 21:49:50 +0000 Barney, There are a few ways to keep the filers lasting longer. On one of Randy's and I canoe trips, I put a coffee filter (like the one you use in a instant coffee maker) over the inlet and it kept the Green River's nice silt from wasting it. But any thing will help- using a thin piece of cloth to strain through and catch the larger particles, having friend test the water first and see if his clogs up is another good way. :) mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now water Date: 11 Jan 2004 17:44:20 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/11/2004 1:50:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, amm1616@comcast.net writes: having friend test the water first and see if his clogs up is another good way. :) Ahhh, that's the reason you took Randy with you, eh? LMAO Thanks for the advise. Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/11/2004 1:50:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, amm1616@= comcast.net writes:
having friend test the water first
and see=20= if his clogs up is another good way. :)
Ahhh, that's&= nbsp;the reason you took Randy with you, eh?  LMAO  Than= ks for the advise.  Barney  
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mclark1999@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: auth ae56bf71 subscribe hist_text mclark1999@juno.com Date: 12 Jan 2004 00:53:26 GMT auth ae56bf71 subscribe hist_text mclark1999@juno.com ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 11 Jan 2004 18:21:17 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3D86F.B4809140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 Larson Harsey=20 wrote in part: I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along = the trail and make water when I need it.=20 Dear Larson: I have never carried hydgrogen with me on period camps but I have made = water along the trail and have found it not only heplful but almost = indespinsible. You oatta try it sometime. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3D86F.B4809140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 Larson=20 Harsey
 wrote in part:
 
 I seams if I carry enough = hydrogen, I can=20 just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need=20 it. 
 
 
 
Dear Larson:
 
I have never carried hydgrogen with me = on period=20 camps but I have made water along the trail and have found it not only = heplful=20 but almost indespinsible.   You oatta try it sometime.
 
Wynn Ormond
 
------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C3D86F.B4809140-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Noe Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 11 Jan 2004 17:18:04 -0800 (PST) --0-950621388-1073870284=:90534 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii roger lahti wrote: I think as long as I don't use it to talk funny around the camp fire I should be ok. Capt. L The Helium is what makes you talk funny. When Hydrogen burns with Oxygen it produces water. I guess you could just carry one container of of hydrogen (twice as big as the Oxygen container) and one of Oxygen. Just burn them and condense the vapor ot a liquid. Two parts Hydrogen + one part Oxygen = 2 H2O Capt. Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg" . I think I may experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up. George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-950621388-1073870284=:90534 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii


roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> wrote:
 
 
 
I think as long as I don't use it to talk funny around the camp fire I should be ok.
 
Capt. L The Helium is what makes you talk  funny.
 When Hydrogen burns with Oxygen it produces water.
 I guess you could just carry one container of of hydrogen (twice as big as the Oxygen container) and one of Oxygen.
 Just burn them and condense the vapor ot a liquid.
Two parts Hydrogen + one part Oxygen = 2 H2O
Capt.
 Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg"

. I think I may
experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well and could be
used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used up.

 


George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-950621388-1073870284=:90534-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 11 Jan 2004 18:43:10 -0700 Dear Capt Lahti I appreciate your being such a gentleman about this. However, I was thinking more in the line of a loan than to have you actually take possession of my girl friend. That way should you die while traveling into camp and left all that fine plunder you spoke of we wouldn't even have to unpack, it would just have to be brought back to her humble abode. Also, not to demean the fair lady that has accepted your hand by my speaking for her, but I don't believe she would find the need to become jealous of my girlfriend. Granted my fair friend is a sight to see, fills the air with a splendid noise, and goes about her work with much joy and zeal. Several members of the PRP and a few others have shared her services with me and have even taken pictures while in the act. Some of those pics have somehow made it into the hands of those left at home and they have not objected to loudly. Indeed, unless he has changed it recently Crazy Cyot has a pic on his site that shows my girl friend and I on the trail together. You can tell which one she is by the large size of her ears and her beautiful dark hair. http://members.tripod.com/gazingcyot/index.htm You know until I saw that pic of Crazy's and his description, I had not realized that she was in fact my girl friend, but hey if my sponcer says that a mule can hold that position who am I to argue with him. I kinda wonder if he aint a little jealous too. Wynn Ormond ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 10:32 AM > Wynn, > > I would not think to deprive you of her company. Not a gentlemanly thing to > do at all. Having someone who has no real value to another bond themselves > to me by their own free will seems much more fair and sporting. And if they > do not perform, dismissing them will be much more easy than turning out a > young maiden. I confess I have a weak spot for the ladies and could not let > one go regardless of the provocation, thus I would find myself so encumbered > with numbers of them that I could not feed them or house them properly and I > hate to see a lady go hungry or cold. > > Besides my wife would protest vigorously. Therein lies the danger. > > I'll go as light as I can as far as I can and make camp alone or with a > "male" partner thank you. > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Lyman GPR Date: 11 Jan 2004 18:22:45 -0800 Jeff, Go ahead and send me some pictures. Thank you, Rick _________________________________________________________________ Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: now water Date: 11 Jan 2004 20:41:48 -0800 Mike, etc...., that's a good point. If possible, we carry those collapsible canvas buckets- fill them at night and let the stuff settle, then pump off of the top of the bucket in the morning. Some river water is very silty. "to thick to navigate, too thin to plough..." Mike taught me the coffe filter trick. Beware of Mike's coffee . hardtack > Barney, > There are a few ways to keep the filers lasting > longer. On one of Randy's and I canoe trips, I put a > coffee filter (like the one you use in a instant coffee > maker) over the inlet and it kept the Green River's > nice silt from wasting it. But any thing will help- > using a thin piece of cloth to strain through and catch > the larger particles, having friend test the water first > and see if his clogs up is another good way. :) > mike. ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 11 Jan 2004 20:42:48 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII "don't drink the water...." ...... ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 1/11/04 5:13:16 PM Larson Harsey wrote in part: I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need it. Dear Larson: I have never carried hydgrogen with me on period camps but I have made water along the trail and have found it not only heplful but almost indespinsible. You oatta try it sometime. Wynn Ormond ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
"don't drink the water...." <g>......
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/11/04 5:13:16 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy

 
 wrote in part:
 
 I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need it. 
 
 
 
Dear Larson:
 
I have never carried hydgrogen with me on period camps but I have made water along the trail and have found it not only heplful but almost indespinsible.   You oatta try it sometime.
 
Wynn Ormond
 
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT Date: 11 Jan 2004 23:15:46 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3D898.D7E1BD70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this list is likely not to = see all your tongues in your collective cheeks and might actually think = that you can compress water? We had a technician at my lab who was = convinced that water could be compressed and simply would not listen to = facts. One of our testing devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he = confused the compression of air in one part of the device and thought = the water in the OTHER part of the device was being compressed during = the testing procedure. He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab = where he is probably still in a fog. He was a nice kid who was proud of = playing in the Praise and Glory Band at church. Lanney ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3D898.D7E1BD70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You do = realize, don't=20 you, that somebody on this list is likely not to see all your = tongues in=20 your collective cheeks and might actually think that you can = compress=20 water?  We had a technician at my lab who was convinced that water = could be=20 compressed and simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing = devices=20 utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the compression of air in = one part=20 of the device and thought the water in the OTHER part of the device was = being=20 compressed during the testing procedure. He eventually moved = on to a=20 competitor's lab where he is probably still in a fog.  He was a = nice kid=20 who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory Band at=20 church.
Lanney
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C3D898.D7E1BD70-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 11 Jan 2004 21:36:20 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C3D88A.F4207480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, We know all this already. Capt. L ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Noe=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy roger lahti wrote:=20 I think as long as I don't use it to talk funny around the camp fire = I should be ok. Capt. L The Helium is what makes you talk funny. When Hydrogen burns with Oxygen it produces water. I guess you could just carry one container of of hydrogen (twice as = big as the Oxygen container) and one of Oxygen. Just burn them and condense the vapor ot a liquid. Two parts Hydrogen + one part Oxygen =3D 2 H2O Capt. Hope we don't have to say "Rember the Hindinburg" . I think I may experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns well = and could be used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the water is used = up. George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >=20 Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. ----- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C3D88A.F4207480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
 
We know all this=20 already.
 
Capt. L
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George = Noe
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 = 5:18=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water = Packing=20 Sissy



roger lahti <amm1719@charter.net> = wrote:=20
 
 
 
I think as long as = I don't use=20 it to talk funny around the camp fire I should be ok.
 
Capt. L The Helium = is what=20 makes you talk  funny.
 When Hydrogen burns = with Oxygen=20 it produces water.
 I guess you could = just carry=20 one container of of hydrogen (twice as big as the Oxygen container) = and one=20 of Oxygen.
 Just burn them and = condense the=20 vapor ot a liquid.
Two parts Hydrogen + one = part=20 Oxygen =3D 2 H2O
Capt.
 Hope we don't have to say "Rember the = Hindinburg"

. I think I may
experiment with using hydrogen instead of helium. It burns = well and=20 could be
used as an emergency fuel if necessary after the = water is=20 used up.

=  


George=20 R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com >
Watch your back trail, and keep = your eyes=20 on the skyline.

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Ente= r=20 the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C3D88A.F4207480-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT Date: 11 Jan 2004 22:00:31 -0800 ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Not compress water (liquid)?...I suppose you'll try to tell us we can't convert lead to Gold...? Get with it.... Wanna buy shares in the fountain of youth, we found it at the AMM Eastern in Florida , 2000. See you soon brother. hardtack ----- Original Message ----- Sent: 1/11/04 9:15:51 PM You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this list is likely not to see all your tongues in your collective cheeks and might actually think that you can compress water? We had a technician at my lab who was convinced that water could be compressed and simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the compression of air in one part of the device and thought the water in the OTHER part of the device was being compressed during the testing procedure. He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where he is probably still in a fog. He was a nice kid who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory Band at church. Lanney ------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Not compress water (liquid)?...I suppose you'll try to tell us we can't convert lead to Gold...?   Get with it....  Wanna buy shares in the fountain of youth, we found it at the AMM Eastern in Florida , 2000.   See you soon brother.    hardtack
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 1/11/04 9:15:51 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT

You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this list is likely not to see all your tongues in your collective cheeks and might actually think that you can compress water?  We had a technician at my lab who was convinced that water could be compressed and simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the compression of air in one part of the device and thought the water in the OTHER part of the device was being compressed during the testing procedure. He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where he is probably still in a fog.  He was a nice kid who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory Band at church.
Lanney
------=_NextPart_84815C5ABAF209EF376268C8-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larson Harsey Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy Date: 12 Jan 2004 04:40:10 -0800 (PST) --0-1688133534-1073911210=:99554 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I think having a filter would help in some way also. Thanks The posibilities are unlimited. Wynn Ormond wrote: Larson Harsey wrote in part: I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need it. Dear Larson: I have never carried hydgrogen with me on period camps but I have made water along the trail and have found it not only heplful but almost indespinsible. You oatta try it sometime. Wynn Ormond Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1688133534-1073911210=:99554 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I think having a filter would help in some way also.  Thanks  The posibilities are unlimited.

Wynn Ormond <cheyenne@pcu.net> wrote:
 
 wrote in part:
 
 I seams if I carry enough hydrogen, I can just use it with air along the trail and make water when I need it. 
 
 
 
Dear Larson:
 
I have never carried hydgrogen with me on period camps but I have made water along the trail and have found it not only heplful but almost indespinsible.   You oatta try it sometime.
 
Wynn Ormond
 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes --0-1688133534-1073911210=:99554-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Schrivener Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack?? Date: 12 Jan 2004 06:18:29 -0800 (PST) --0-100894081-1073917109=:56897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I honestly don't know. I've been using it for a while now, and I no longer remember the origin. I think it's pretty true though. :) Todd Wynn Ormond wrote: Todd There is a quote in the marks at the bottom of your post. Can you tell me the source? Thank You Wynn ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:17 PM Roger, how does AuaPur handle chemical contaminants, like fertilizer runoff etc? Some of the areas I hike around in have been contaminated upstream. But, you are dead on with regard to water. I remember the fun I had trying to document a civilian impression water container for a longhunter. There wasn't one. They followed the streams, and drank from them. Why carry it when your paddling on it. :) Wish we could still say the same thing. Todd Missouri Territory "the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes" --0-100894081-1073917109=:56897 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I honestly don't know.    I've been using it for a while now, and I no longer remember the origin.   I think it's pretty true though.    :)
 
Todd

Wynn Ormond <cheyenne@pcu.net> wrote:
Todd
There is a quote in the marks at the bottom of your post.  Can you tell me the source?  Thank You
Wynn
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Packframe/Pack Basket/Knapsack??

Roger, how does AuaPur handle chemical contaminants, like fertilizer runoff etc?    Some of the areas I hike around in have been contaminated upstream.    But, you are dead on with regard to water.    I remember the fun I had trying to document a civilian impression water container for a longhunter.  There wasn't one.  They followed the streams, and drank from them.   Why carry it when your paddling on it.  :)    Wish we could still say the same thing.  
 
Todd
Missouri Territory
"the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes"
--0-100894081-1073917109=:56897-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Schrivener Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Date: 12 Jan 2004 06:21:47 -0800 (PST) --0-59808888-1073917307=:42394 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yup. A stream I used to hike along and fish in as a kid is sterile now, unless you count the massive amounts of fecal choloroforms that are in there from an upstream feed lot. Signs all over the thing prohibiting wading, fishing, swimming etc. The stream even LOOKS ill. Todd "the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes" Frank Fusco wrote: Capt'n said, That may be true if you are only worried about runoff contaminants and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one mighty ill and have long term effects that may not be immediately identified with drinking from a certain stream years earlier. And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill. Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very "authentic" back then. Frank --0-59808888-1073917307=:42394 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Yup.    A stream I used to hike along and fish in as a kid is sterile now, unless you count the massive amounts of fecal choloroforms that are in there from an upstream feed lot.   Signs all over the thing prohibiting wading, fishing, swimming etc.    The stream even LOOKS ill.    
 
 
Todd
"the only substitute for good manners is fast reflexes"

Frank Fusco <Rifleman1776@cox-internet.com> wrote:
Capt'n said,
    <Your going to have to drink a lot of water for the runoff contaminants =
to kill you.>
 
    That may be true if you are only worried about runoff contaminants and being killed quickly. But those runoffs can make one mighty ill and have long term effects that may not be immediately identified with drinking from a certain stream years earlier.
    And, there are biological contaminants in almost every waterway in the U.S. (and probably world) that may or may not be the result of 'run-offs' that can make one seriously ill.
    Use of filters for obtaining water in the wilderness is an absolutely necessity for protecting ones health. May not be considered "authentic". But remember suffering horribly and dying young was very "authentic" back then.
Frank
--0-59808888-1073917307=:42394-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Schrivener Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT Date: 12 Jan 2004 06:35:34 -0800 (PST) --0-364467955-1073918134=:61409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Uh, I'm assuming he's unfamiliar with that whole science called "hydraulics"? That system works for a reason. :) Todd That said, I am assuming that water filters are kinda lumped into the category with modern meds, something that we acknowledge didn't exist, but kinda need anyway? I've been working diligently to pare down my kit to absolulte minimums, and all of it documentable but there are some things I kinda wondered on. Lanney Ratcliff wrote: You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this list is likely not to see all your tongues in your collective cheeks and might actually think that you can compress water? We had a technician at my lab who was convinced that water could be compressed and simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the compression of air in one part of the device and thought the water in the OTHER part of the device was being compressed during the testing procedure. He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where he is probably still in a fog. He was a nice kid who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory Band at church. Lanney --0-364467955-1073918134=:61409 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Uh, I'm assuming he's unfamiliar with that whole science called "hydraulics"?     That system works for a reason.   :)
 
Todd
 
That said, I am assuming that water filters are kinda lumped into the category with modern meds, something that we acknowledge didn't exist, but kinda need anyway?    
I've been working diligently to pare down my kit to absolulte minimums, and all of it documentable but there are some things I kinda wondered on.


Lanney Ratcliff <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> wrote:
You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this list is likely not to see all your tongues in your collective cheeks and might actually think that you can compress water?  We had a technician at my lab who was convinced that water could be compressed and simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the compression of air in one part of the device and thought the water in the OTHER part of the device was being compressed during the testing procedure. He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where he is probably still in a fog.  He was a nice kid who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory Band at church.
Lanney
--0-364467955-1073918134=:61409-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Knapp Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Compressed water, now Water guns Date: 12 Jan 2004 09:15:54 -0700 If only Lewis and Clark had our ingenuity, they'd uv used their air rifle to compress water and invented the first "squirt gun" to show off the the Indians. Now that wooda been a sight to see. All you guys have made my Monday morning a hoot. Regards, Dennis Knapp aka Sticher southern Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:12:06 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3D8E3.C472F5B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WE realize that there are those befuddled souls out there who do not = realize a lot of things. One can take being pc and foolproof just so = far. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lanney Ratcliff=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this list is likely not to = see all your tongues in your collective cheeks and might actually think = that you can compress water? We had a technician at my lab who was = convinced that water could be compressed and simply would not listen to = facts. One of our testing devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he = confused the compression of air in one part of the device and thought = the water in the OTHER part of the device was being compressed during = the testing procedure. He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab = where he is probably still in a fog. He was a nice kid who was proud of = playing in the Praise and Glory Band at church. Lanney ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3D8E3.C472F5B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WE realize that there are those = befuddled=20 souls out there who do not realize a lot of things. One can take being = pc and=20 foolproof just so far. <G>
 
Capt. Lahti'
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lanney Ratcliff
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 = 9:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water = Packing=20 Sissy..OT

You do = realize, don't=20 you, that somebody on this list is likely not to see all your = tongues in=20 your collective cheeks and might actually think that you can = compress=20 water?  We had a technician at my lab who was convinced that = water could=20 be compressed and simply would not listen to facts. One of our = testing=20 devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the compression = of air in=20 one part of the device and thought the water in the OTHER part of the = device=20 was being compressed during the testing procedure. He = eventually=20 moved on to a competitor's lab where he is probably still in a = fog.  He=20 was a nice kid who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory Band = at=20 church.
Lanney
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C3D8E3.C472F5B0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: packframe, now water Date: 12 Jan 2004 08:29:15 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C3D8E6.29D72870 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If your planning a trek along a stream that is so "dead" you need to = travel to another area to do your walkabout. I'd not be afraid to drink = filtered water coming from the waste water draining off our "Columbia = Basin Project" here in central WA. It's probably the biggest irrigation = project in the west and while there are "things" and "stuff" in the = water, they are not in such concentrates that anyone is going to die = with any surety from a once in a great while filtered/treated drink. There are water sources out west here that, no, I would not drink or = even wade in. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C3D8E6.29D72870 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If your planning a = trek along a=20 stream that is so "dead" you need to travel to another area to do your=20 walkabout. I'd not be afraid to drink filtered water coming from the = waste water=20 draining off our "Columbia Basin Project" here in central WA. It's = probably the=20 biggest irrigation project in the west and while there are "things" and = "stuff"=20 in the water, they are not in such concentrates that anyone is going to = die with=20 any surety from a once in a great while filtered/treated = drink.
 
There are water = sources out west=20 here that, no, I would not drink or even wade in.
 
YMOS
Capt.=20 Lahti'
------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C3D8E6.29D72870-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Compressed water, now Water guns Date: 12 Jan 2004 17:48:02 -0700 Dennis, By putting a llittle indelible color in the water the coup counting techniques could have changed dramatically. There would be those miserable coup-victims going forever about their lives marked with the indelible stains of their enemies. At the same time, it would have been a boon to those who import and/or make dyes. And the West may have been more colorful to this day . Sparks Dennis Knapp wrote: >If only Lewis and Clark had our ingenuity, they'd uv used their air rifle to compress water and invented the first "squirt gun" to show off the the Indians. Now that wooda been a sight to see. All you guys have made my Monday morning a hoot. >Regards, >Dennis Knapp aka Sticher >southern Idaho > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike stilts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT Date: 13 Jan 2004 10:54:13 -0800 (PST) --- Todd Schrivener wrote: > Uh, I'm assuming he's unfamiliar with that whole > science called "hydraulics"? That system works > for a reason. :) > > Todd > > That said, I am assuming that water filters are > kinda lumped into the category with modern meds, > something that we acknowledge didn't exist, but > kinda need anyway? > I've been working diligently to pare down my kit to > absolulte minimums, and all of it documentable but > there are some things I kinda wondered on. > > > Lanney Ratcliff wrote: > You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this > list is likely not to see all your tongues in your > collective cheeks and might actually think that you > can compress water? We had a technician at my lab > who was convinced that water could be compressed and > simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing > devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the > compression of air in one part of the device and > thought the water in the OTHER part of the device > was being compressed during the testing procedure. > He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where > he is probably still in a fog. He was a nice kid > who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory > Band at church. > Lanney > MadMt Mike That said, I pared down my kit, All is flint, steel, char patch and a pot to broil the water in. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Water Packing Sissy..OT Date: 13 Jan 2004 17:55:01 -0700 --------------020504060906060906000500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike: You can pare down that kit even further! I see a rifle, powder and shot is not included. Therefore you can leave the patches at home, unless you need them for char. Sparks mike stilts wrote: >--- Todd Schrivener wrote: > > >>Uh, I'm assuming he's unfamiliar with that whole >>science called "hydraulics"? That system works >>for a reason. :) >> >>Todd >> >>That said, I am assuming that water filters are >>kinda lumped into the category with modern meds, >>something that we acknowledge didn't exist, but >>kinda need anyway? >>I've been working diligently to pare down my kit to >>absolulte minimums, and all of it documentable but >>there are some things I kinda wondered on. >> >> >>Lanney Ratcliff wrote: >>You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this >>list is likely not to see all your tongues in your >>collective cheeks and might actually think that you >>can compress water? We had a technician at my lab >>who was convinced that water could be compressed and >>simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing >>devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the >>compression of air in one part of the device and >>thought the water in the OTHER part of the device >>was being compressed during the testing procedure. >>He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where >>he is probably still in a fog. He was a nice kid >>who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory >>Band at church. >>Lanney >> >> >> >MadMt Mike >That said, I pared down my kit, All is flint, steel, >char patch and a pot to broil the water in. > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes >http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------020504060906060906000500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike:
You can pare down that kit even further!  I see a rifle, powder and shot is not included.  Therefore you can leave the patches at home, unless you need them for char.
Sparks

mike stilts wrote:
--- Todd Schrivener <farseer@swbell.net> wrote:
  
Uh, I'm assuming he's unfamiliar with that whole
science called "hydraulics"?     That system works
for a reason.   :)
 
Todd
 
That said, I am assuming that water filters are
kinda lumped into the category with modern meds,
something that we acknowledge didn't exist, but
kinda need anyway?     
I've been working diligently to pare down my kit to
absolulte minimums, and all of it documentable but
there are some things I kinda wondered on.


Lanney Ratcliff <lanneyratcliff@charter.net> wrote:
You do realize, don't you, that somebody on this
list is likely not to see all your tongues in your
collective cheeks and might actually think that you
can compress water?  We had a technician at my lab
who was convinced that water could be compressed and
simply would not listen to facts. One of our testing
devices utilitized Boyles's Law and he confused the
compression of air in one part of the device and
thought the water in the OTHER part of the device
was being compressed during the testing procedure.
He eventually moved on to a competitor's lab where
he is probably still in a fog.  He was a nice kid
who was proud of playing in the Praise and Glory
Band at church.
Lanney

    
MadMt Mike
That said, I pared down my kit, All is flint, steel,
char patch and a pot to broil the water in.



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

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--------------020504060906060906000500-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 16 Jan 2004 14:05:32 -0600 A friend just retired from the F&I and Rev. War game and traded me his entire wardward (greatcoat, weskit, and so forth), Wilde and other blankets, gear including just about everything from cookware to copper canteens, shooting bags, a fine scrimshawed powder horn and a rum horn, and so forth. If anyone is interested in taking a look at what he offered me, let me know and I will forward photos. It is a massive amount of gear. Several questions. First, what is the fair retail value for a Pedersoli 75 cal. Brown Bess, tools and balls included? He also included a Tower pistol, maker unknown, with a 12" barrel. Any sense of value? There are also several sets of eyeglasses, mostly original, but one marked Otters. Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly nice and I can actually read with them. Any idea what this label of glasses sells for? Thanks for any help or suggestions. Paul ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Randal Bublitz" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 16 Jan 2004 18:00:20 -0800 Otter is a trader. He sells lots of those glasses relatively cheaply. I bought a pair of his sunglasses years ago for $9 (new). I bet he gets $15? for them anymore. > [Original Message] > From: Paul Jones > To: > Date: 1/16/04 12:07:27 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Request for information > , but one marked Otters. > Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly nice and I can > actually read with them. Any idea what this label of glasses sells for? > > Thanks for any help or suggestions. > > Paul > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Who Wrote It? Date: 17 Jan 2004 10:42:42 -0700 (MST) "A flick and a flame and the wilderness is home" Does anyone know who said this? Robert Service? What is the name of the poem? Am I repeating it correctly? Thanks for your help in advance. bb ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Otter glasses Date: 19 Jan 2004 13:06:18 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/16/04 3:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, pwjones@myexcel.com writes: sets of eyeglasses, mostly original, but one marked Otters. Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly nice and I can actually read with them. Any idea what this label of glasses sells for? Hello, I purchased a second set of Otter Frames at the NMLRA EPR last fall, retail $45 for clear or colored non-reading glasses. I think, but do not remember, that he got and extra $5 for reading lenses. Y.M.O.S. C. T. Oakes The Little Beards Club-Pres. Croghans Co./Brants Volunteers Lottridge Co./Doxstaders Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/16/04 3:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, pwjones@my= excel.com writes:
sets of eyeglasses, mostly original, but one m= arked Otters.
Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly nice= and I can
actually read with them.  Any idea what this label of gla= sses sells for?
Hello,
 
I purchased a second set of Otter Frames at the NMLRA EPR last fall, re= tail $45 for clear or colored non-reading glasses.  I think, but do not= remember, that he got and extra $5 for reading lenses.
 
 
Y.M.O.S.

C. T. Oakes
The Little Beards Club-Pres.
Croghans Co./Brants Volunteers
Lottridge Co./Doxstaders
= ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: who wrote it Date: 19 Jan 2004 12:35:27 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3DE88.B7E17330 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beaver Boy asked, <"A flick and a flame and the wilderness is home" Does anyone know = who said this? Robert Service? What is the name of the poem? Am I repeating it correctly?> BB I have read a lot of Service and this does not strike familiar. It = sounds more like Jack London. But then, I would have to re-read all of what both wrote to be sure. Speaking of Service, I'll paraphrase one of my favorite lines by = him. It is appropo to the area of interest for this list. 'Tis but three days from civilized man to savage'.=20 Frank ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3DE88.B7E17330 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Beaver Boy asked,
    <"A flick and a flame and the wilderness is = home"=20 Does anyone know who said
this? Robert Service? What is the name of = the poem?=20 Am I repeating it
correctly?>
 
BB
    I have read a lot of Service and this does not = strike=20 familiar. It sounds more like Jack London.
    But then, I would have to re-read all of what = both wrote=20 to be sure.
    Speaking of Service, I'll paraphrase one of my = favorite=20 lines by him. It is appropo to the area of interest for this list.
    'Tis but three days from civilized man to = savage'.=20
Frank
------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C3DE88.B7E17330-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Otter glasses Date: 19 Jan 2004 13:22:23 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01C3DE8F.460C32C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for your information and your time. Paul ----- Original Message -----=20 From: CTOAKES@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 12:06 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Otter glasses In a message dated 1/16/04 3:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, = pwjones@myexcel.com writes: sets of eyeglasses, mostly original, but one marked Otters. Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly nice and I = can actually read with them. Any idea what this label of glasses sells = for? Hello, I purchased a second set of Otter Frames at the NMLRA EPR last fall, = retail $45 for clear or colored non-reading glasses. I think, but do = not remember, that he got and extra $5 for reading lenses. Y.M.O.S. C. T. Oakes The Little Beards Club-Pres. Croghans Co./Brants Volunteers Lottridge Co./Doxstaders ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01C3DE8F.460C32C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks = for your information=20 and your time.
 
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 CTOAKES@aol.com=20
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 = 12:06=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Otter=20 glasses

In a message dated 1/16/04 3:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, pwjones@myexcel.com = writes:
sets of eyeglasses, mostly original, but one marked=20 Otters.
Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly = nice and I=20 can
actually read with them.  Any idea what this label of = glasses=20 sells for?
Hello,
 
I purchased a second set of Otter Frames at the NMLRA EPR last = fall,=20 retail $45 for clear or colored non-reading glasses.  I think, = but do not=20 remember, that he got and extra $5 for reading lenses.
 
 
Y.M.O.S.

C. T. Oakes
The Little Beards=20 Club-Pres.
Croghans=20 Co./Brants Volunteers
Lottridge=20 Co./Doxstaders
------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01C3DE8F.460C32C0-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: who wrote it Date: 19 Jan 2004 19:39:44 -0700 (MST) Thank You Frank for your help. I can't believe no one else has heard this phrase before. > Beaver Boy asked, > <"A flick and a flame and the wilderness is home" Does anyone know who > said > this? Robert Service? What is the name of the poem? Am I repeating it > correctly?> > > BB > I have read a lot of Service and this does not strike familiar. It > sounds more like Jack London. > But then, I would have to re-read all of what both wrote to be sure. > Speaking of Service, I'll paraphrase one of my favorite lines by him. > It is appropo to the area of interest for this list. > 'Tis but three days from civilized man to savage'. > Frank ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: who wrote it Date: 20 Jan 2004 14:09:13 -0600 Greg, I've been pondering your question and think I remember it as an advertising slogan for either Zippo or Ronson back in the '50's. SnakeOyl... At 08:39 PM 01/19/04, you wrote: >Thank You Frank for your help. I can't believe no one else has heard this >phrase before. > > > > > Beaver Boy asked, > > <"A flick and a flame and the wilderness is home" Does anyone know who > > said > > this? Robert Service? What is the name of the poem? Am I repeating it > > correctly?> > > > > BB > > I have read a lot of Service and this does not strike familiar. It > > sounds more like Jack London. > > But then, I would have to re-read all of what both wrote to be sure. > > Speaking of Service, I'll paraphrase one of my favorite lines by him. > > It is appropo to the area of interest for this list. > > 'Tis but three days from civilized man to savage'. > > Frank > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: MtMan-List: Three days? Date: 20 Jan 2004 21:09:03 -0700 Frank, 'Tis but three days from civilized man to savage' rings true here, especially if day one started with no food! Who said grizzly bears are on the endangered species list...they's just in hiding. My wife would sees one everytime it's been too long since my previous meal. Sparks >> >> > >> > 'Tis but three days from civilized man to savage'. >> > Frank >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 20 Jan 2004 20:14:38 -0800 Otter is a friend of mine. In fact, our party is planning an AMM event on his place this spring. He just came back from L.A. on trip to purchase a pair of eye glasses from the early 1700's. He should have a new line of glasses for the upcoming rendezvous season. Rick _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 20 Jan 2004 21:59:22 -0700 Rick, What's Otter's URL? Sparks RICK TABOR wrote: > Otter is a friend of mine. In fact, our party is planning an AMM event > on his place this spring. He just came back from L.A. on trip to > purchase a pair of eye glasses from the early 1700's. He should have a > new line of glasses for the upcoming rendezvous season. > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium > Internet Software. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Request for information Now OTTER Date: 21 Jan 2004 00:34:15 EST Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/2004 8:15:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, blackshirt75@hotmail.com writes: He should have a new line of glasses for the upcoming rendezvous season. Rick, You have any email or website info for Otter? Barney Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/20/2004 8:15:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, blackshi= rt75@hotmail.com writes:
He should have a new line of
glasses for t= he upcoming rendezvous season.
Rick, You have any= email or website info for Otter?    Barney 
---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 20 Jan 2004 21:37:18 -0800 Sparks, They dont have one. They dont have a phone either. Their snail mail is: Otters,P.O.Box221,Sixes,OR 97476. I hope that helps. Rick _________________________________________________________________ High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 21 Jan 2004 06:50:46 -0700 Does he ever go to the Ft. Bridger Rendezvous along the WY/UT border? Sparks RICK TABOR wrote: > Sparks, > They dont have one. They dont have a phone either. Their snail mail > is: Otters,P.O.Box221,Sixes,OR 97476. > I hope that helps. > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > High-speed users—be more efficient online with the new MSN Premium > Internet Software. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/prem&ST=1 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: who wrote it Date: 21 Jan 2004 07:00:04 -0700 (MST) Thank you John, I started to crate up the beaver yesterday. Should have them in the mail tomorrow or Friday for you. Greg > Greg, > > I've been pondering your question and think I remember it as an > advertising > slogan for either Zippo or Ronson back in the '50's. > > SnakeOyl... > > > At 08:39 PM 01/19/04, you wrote: >>Thank You Frank for your help. I can't believe no one else has heard this >>phrase before. >> >> >> >> > Beaver Boy asked, >> > <"A flick and a flame and the wilderness is home" Does anyone know >> who >> > said >> > this? Robert Service? What is the name of the poem? Am I repeating it >> > correctly?> >> > >> > BB >> > I have read a lot of Service and this does not strike familiar. It >> > sounds more like Jack London. >> > But then, I would have to re-read all of what both wrote to be >> sure. >> > Speaking of Service, I'll paraphrase one of my favorite lines by >> him. >> > It is appropo to the area of interest for this list. >> > 'Tis but three days from civilized man to savage'. >> > Frank >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Powell" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 21 Jan 2004 19:01:12 +0000

Hello the list,

Otter usually sets up at Bridger and other bigger rendezvous around the country.  I purchased a pair of his glasses eight years ago and have really liked the way they fit.  The temples go all around the ear and I had my local eye doctor put my Rx lenses in them.

Mike Powell

AMM #1769
POISON RIVER PARTY
"Ride, Ride, Ride"
"Aux Aliments du Pays"! >From: "Randal Bublitz" >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Request for information >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 18:00:20 -0800 > >Otter is a trader. He sells lots of those glasses relatively cheaply. I >bought a pair of his sunglasses years ago for $9 (new). I bet he gets $15? >for them anymore. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Paul Jones > > To: > > Date: 1/16/04 12:07:27 PM > > Subject: MtMan-List: Request for information > > > , but one marked Otters. > > Strangely, for a reproduction, it appears to be fairly nice and I can > > actually read with them. Any idea what this label of glasses sells for? > > > > Thanks for any help or suggestions. > > > > Paul > > > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "RICK TABOR" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 21 Jan 2004 19:13:47 -0800 Sparks, He sure does. You cant miss him. Cross the bridge, he has the 2nd store on the left. Rick _________________________________________________________________ Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software — optimizes dial-up to the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Request for information Date: 21 Jan 2004 20:28:22 -0700 I'm sure we've seen him. We'll look for him in Sept. Sparks RICK TABOR wrote: > Sparks, > He sure does. You cant miss him. Cross the bridge, he has the 2nd > store on the left. > Rick > > _________________________________________________________________ > Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software  optimizes dial-up to > the max! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=byoa/plus&ST=1 > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Don't ask.... Date: 23 Jan 2004 18:07:14 EST --part1_89.1d365d4.2d430322_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Think I may have put everyone on a spam list.... don't ask! ....so this is a test. Magpie --part1_89.1d365d4.2d430322_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Think I may have put everyone on a spam= list.... don't ask! ....so this is a test.

Magpie --part1_89.1d365d4.2d430322_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "wolverine" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: giardia Date: 27 Jan 2004 13:33:06 -0700 Incorrect It is common known as beaver feaver. well known in 1800,s And common in Canada even today *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 1/10/04 at 8:14 AM James and Sue Stone wrote: >I understand that giardia, one of those nasty diseases, was not in the >country until lately. I used to drink out of open water when I worked >in the mountains all of one summer in the 70s. I read in an old >publication that the water infected with giardia was in an isolated area >in Nepal, correct me if my source was wrong. >Sparks > > >roger lahti wrote: > >> Todd, >> >> Your going to have to drink a lot of water for the runoff contaminants >> to kill you. But if that is a concern then get a good filter system. I >> really don't think you want to try to carry your gear and 3 gal. of >> water too. >> >> Capt. Lahti' >> >> > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Knapp Subject: MtMan-List: Smoking brain tan Date: 27 Jan 2004 11:48:29 -0700 I'm am in need of some info on smoking brain tan elk hides. I've had my wall tent up since mid November for the boys to camp out whenever they want this winter. Since the tent is up my plan is to put the wood stove in the middle of the tent with the chimney section that is dampered. Build a fire in it, then shut it down and let it smoke away. The elk hides would be hanging from the ridge pole. Is this an effective enough way to smoke the hides? I need to have one pair of new drop front britches for my eldest son done by mid February. Thanks for the replys. Regards, Dennis Knapp aka Sticher southern Idaho ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Boushie" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Smoking brain tan Date: 27 Jan 2004 18:53:34 +0000 Go to www.braintan.com >From: Dennis Knapp >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: Smoking brain tan >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 11:48:29 -0700 > >I'm am in need of some info on smoking brain tan elk hides. I've had my >wall tent >up since mid November for the boys to camp out whenever they want this >winter. >Since the tent is up my plan is to put the wood stove in the middle of the >tent >with the chimney section that is dampered. Build a fire in it, then shut it >down >and let it smoke away. The elk hides would be hanging from the ridge pole. >Is >this an effective enough way to smoke the hides? I need to have one pair of >new >drop front britches for my eldest son done by mid February. Thanks for the >replys. >Regards, >Dennis Knapp aka Sticher >southern Idaho > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html _________________________________________________________________ Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up — fast & reliable Internet access with prime features! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=dialup/home&ST=1 ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking brain tan Date: 27 Jan 2004 16:02:30 -0700 (MST) Dennis don't do it!!!! Not unless you want a wall tent that lets next to no daylight through the canvas. My old tent is so smokey from just a puff now and then coming out of the stove when loading wood or when just lighting the stove that it is very dark inside it now. In comparson my newer tent is bright and nice inside for reading or doing chores, the other is like a cave. I imagine I can clean it somehow but I can't see getting your canvas dark and dirty on purpose. I use my Little Chief Jerky smoker to smoke leather. I put the wood chips directly on the heating element and it smokes so much I think the neighbors will call the fire department. I then watch it constantly and squirt the smoking chips with water when they flare up into a fire. I attach the leather being smoked to the open top, sewed in a circle or tube shape, and sometimes use a piece of cloth to get it higher from the heat. This rig smokes like crazy and does the job quickly. I then just unplug it when done. I do this when I got an afternoon to kill and have the chips, squirt bottle, extra water and a six pack within arms reach. It works good. But I wouldn't smoke your tent on purpose. Good luck, bb > I'm am in need of some info on smoking brain tan elk hides. I've had my > wall tent > up since mid November for the boys to camp out whenever they want this > winter. > Since the tent is up my plan is to put the wood stove in the middle of the > tent > with the chimney section that is dampered. Build a fire in it, then shut > it down > and let it smoke away. The elk hides would be hanging from the ridge pole. > Is > this an effective enough way to smoke the hides? I need to have one pair > of new > drop front britches for my eldest son done by mid February. Thanks for the > replys. > Regards, > Dennis Knapp aka Sticher > southern Idaho > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Smoking brain tan Date: 28 Jan 2004 11:07:00 EST --part1_191.2488c4ff.2d493824_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/27/2004 11:50:33 AM Mountain Standard Time, dennis@clearsprings.com writes: > Since the tent is up my plan is to put the wood stove in the middle of the > tent > with the chimney section that is dampered. Build a fire in it, Stitcher The best way is to stitch it back together to form a bag. The Shoshone today stitch a little skirt around the bottom of canvas. Then suspend it over the smoker (5 gallon can with a smokey fire) and attach ties to the botom of the skirt so you can stretch it out like a tipi. Keep the fire smothered with green willows or rotten wood (I use cottonwood logs gone bad) so it will smoke good. Keep an eye on it and a squirt bottle of water handy in case you get a flame. It is interesting to know how a hide will catch fire and burn like cardboard. Some Indians just do one side - i prefer both. Wallace Zundell - Northwest Band Shoshone, would be a hundred if he were still alive - used to set up out under a weeping willow tree with the hide suspended from a branch and his 5 gallon bucket in place underneath. His instructions were to make a wad of grass and stuff in all the bullet holes so the smoke couldn't escape, but he would pull the plug from time to time to peek and and inspect his progress. It is important that the smoked hide be rolled up and kept in a cover (plastic not period, but works well) and let the smoke percolate through the fibers for several days. Then turn it inside out and repeat the process. I did smoking inside my tipi one time, but it was a big pig I had raised. I closed the flaps with the meat hung up high near the closed smoke hole, and built the fire in the normal place. I used mostly damp hardwood chips and kept the smoke going for a week. At the end of that time that tipi smelled so good I was ready to eat it as well./ Good luck Richard James --part1_191.2488c4ff.2d493824_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 01/27/2= 004 11:50:33 AM Mountain Standard Time, dennis@clearsprings.com writes:


Since the tent is up my plan is= to put the wood stove in the middle of the tent
with the chimney section that is dampered. Build a fire in it,
=

Stitcher
The best way is to stitch it back together to form a bag.  The Shoshone= today stitch a little skirt around the bottom of canvas.  Then suspend= it over the smoker (5 gallon can with a smokey fire) and attach ties to the= botom of the skirt so you can stretch it out like a tipi.  Keep the fi= re smothered with green willows or rotten wood (I use cottonwood logs gone b= ad) so it will smoke good.  Keep an eye on it and a squirt bottle of wa= ter handy in case you get a flame.  It is interesting to know how a hid= e will catch fire and burn like cardboard.  Some Indians just do one si= de  - i prefer both.  Wallace Zundell - Northwest Band Shoshone, w= ould be a hundred if he were still alive - used to set up out under a weepin= g willow tree with the hide suspended from a branch and his 5 gallon bucket=20= in place underneath.  His instructions were to make a wad of grass and=20= stuff in all the bullet holes so the smoke couldn't escape, but he would pul= l the plug from time to time to peek and and inspect his progress.  It=20= is important that the smoked hide be rolled up and kept in a cover (plastic=20= not period, but works well) and let the smoke percolate through the fibers f= or several days.  Then turn it inside out and repeat the process.

I did smoking inside my tipi one time, but it was a big pig I had raised.&nb= sp; I closed the flaps with the meat hung up high near the closed smoke hole= , and built the fire in the normal place.  I used mostly damp hardwood=20= chips and kept the smoke going for a week.  At the end of that time tha= t tipi smelled so good I was ready to eat it as well./

Good luck
Richard James --part1_191.2488c4ff.2d493824_boundary-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: Researchers pinpoint Lewis & Clark campsite near Missoula, Montana Date: 29 Jan 2004 08:00:24 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3E63D.F32FDE60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Researchers pinpoint Lewis & Clark campsite near Missoula, Montana The Bismark Tribune (AP), 27 January 2004 Historians and scientists have found physical evidence that pinpoints = the campsite that Meriwether Lewis dubbed Travelers' Rest in 1805. The five-year study may persuade the National Park Service to correct = the location it listed years ago -- off by a mile and a half -- in the = national register of historic places. The national register locates the campsite at the confluence of Lolo = Creek and the Bitterroot River. The new evidence puts the site a mile and a = half up the creek from the river. "This is now accepted as the true campsite," said Dale Dufour, vice president of the Travelers' Rest Chapter of the Lewis and Clark Trail Heritage Foundation. Missoula archaeologist Dan Hall will detail the findings at a news conference on Feb. 5. The site joins a very small list of locations along the 8,000-mile = length of the Lewis and Clark Trail where physical evidence of the expedition = has been found. At Pompeys Pillar near Billings, William Clark carved his = name in the sandstone pillar in 1806 as the expedition returned from the = Pacific Ocean. In 1989, archaeologists used magnetometry, radio carbon dating and other techniques to locate another campsite near Great Falls at what's known = as the Lower Portage site. That site contained several fire rings and = evidence that the expedition had camped there for some time. Travelers' Rest is now designated a state park. Indians had camped there for untold years. An Indian guide called Toby brought Lewis and Clark to the site in September 1805 to prepare for crossing the Bitterroot Mountains. The Corps of Discovery spent three days at Travelers' Rest before = beginning the near-fatal, 11-day crossing of the Bitterroots. They returned to = spend June 30 and July 1, 2 and 3, 1806, to rest before heading home. Historians and scientists used a variety of methods to prove the exact location of Travelers' Rest. Aerial infrared photography showed evidence of tepee rings. Historical research matched coordinates of latitude and longitude recorded by Lewis and Clark. Archaeological digs turned up a latrine, a late-18th century button and lead. Vapor analysis verified the presence of mercury beneath the old latrine. Mercury, which does not decompose, was the major ingredient in a = powerful laxative carried on the expedition. Surrounded by a rapidly developing residential area, the campsite was designated one of the nation's most endangered historic places in 1999. That helped attract a grant from the Richard King Mellon Foundation, allowing the Conservation Fund to buy 15 acres believed to be the heart = of the campsite. The Conservation Fund immediately donated the site to the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks for use as a state park. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3E63D.F32FDE60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 




Researchers pinpoint Lewis & Clark = campsite=20 near Missoula, Montana

The Bismark Tribune (AP), 27 January=20 2004

Historians and scientists have found physical evidence that=20 pinpoints the
campsite that Meriwether Lewis dubbed Travelers' Rest = in=20 1805.


The five-year study may persuade the National Park = Service to=20 correct the
location it listed years ago -- off by a mile and a half = -- in=20 the national
register of historic places.


The national = register=20 locates the campsite at the confluence of Lolo Creek
and the = Bitterroot=20 River. The new evidence puts the site a mile and a half
up the creek = from the=20 river.


"This is now accepted as the true campsite," said Dale = Dufour,=20 vice
president of the Travelers' Rest Chapter of the Lewis and Clark=20 Trail
Heritage Foundation.


Missoula archaeologist Dan Hall = will=20 detail the findings at a news
conference on Feb. 5.


The = site joins=20 a very small list of locations along the 8,000-mile length
of the = Lewis and=20 Clark Trail where physical evidence of the expedition has
been found. = At=20 Pompeys Pillar near Billings, William Clark carved his name
in the = sandstone=20 pillar in 1806 as the expedition returned from the=20 Pacific
Ocean.


In 1989, archaeologists used magnetometry, = radio=20 carbon dating and other
techniques to locate another campsite near = Great=20 Falls at what's known as
the Lower Portage site. That site contained = several=20 fire rings and evidence
that the expedition had camped there for some = time.


Travelers' Rest is now designated a state=20 park.


Indians had camped there for untold years. An Indian = guide=20 called Toby
brought Lewis and Clark to the site in September 1805 to = prepare=20 for
crossing the Bitterroot Mountains.


The Corps of = Discovery=20 spent three days at Travelers' Rest before beginning
the near-fatal, = 11-day=20 crossing of the Bitterroots. They returned to spend
June 30 and July = 1, 2 and=20 3, 1806, to rest before heading home.


Historians and = scientists used=20 a variety of methods to prove the exact
location of Travelers'=20 Rest.


Aerial infrared photography showed evidence of tepee = rings.=20 Historical
research matched coordinates of latitude and longitude = recorded by=20 Lewis
and Clark. Archaeological digs turned up a latrine, a late-18th = century
button and lead.


Vapor analysis verified the = presence of=20 mercury beneath the old latrine.
Mercury, which does not decompose, = was the=20 major ingredient in a powerful
laxative carried on the=20 expedition.


Surrounded by a rapidly developing residential = area, the=20 campsite was
designated one of the nation's most endangered historic = places=20 in 1999.
That helped attract a grant from the Richard King Mellon=20 Foundation,
allowing the Conservation Fund to buy 15 acres believed = to be the=20 heart of
the campsite.


The Conservation Fund immediately = donated=20 the site to the Montana
Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks for = use as a=20 state park.

 ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C3E63D.F32FDE60-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Avalanches! Date: 29 Jan 2004 20:24:13 -0700 (MST) Dear List, If you ever wondered about the force of an avalanche consider the headline in today's Tribune. An avalanche near Essex Montana hit a frieght train and derailed it! It's amazing humans ever survive avalanches! Stay warm! bb http://www.greatfallstribune.com/news/stories/20040129/localnews/312391.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: MtMan-List: Hunter/Actor Date: 31 Jan 2004 10:06:13 -0700 (MST) On page 63 of this weeks Newsweek(Feb 2, 2004)in the Newsmakers column actor Kurt Russell is asked if he goes hunting. "Yes, I still hunt from time to time. I bowhunt and use a rifle." Newsweek: Have you caught anything with your bow and arrow? Russell: You don't catch things with a bow and arrow. You kill them. I've gotten elk, deer, grouse, rabbit... Newsweek: Doesn't it bother Goldie (Hawn his longtime companion) that you hunt? Russell: No, she's a very good game cook. She's not a hunter, has no desire to hunt, but she's a wonderful chef." ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart Family" Subject: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag Date: 31 Jan 2004 13:21:22 -0700 Folks, I am starting to need to put together a possibilies bag and would like to know what you'll think about what kind of hide to make it out of. I am considering elk but I think price might push me to deer. Your thoughts. ED ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: K&L Subject: MtMan-List: Saddle for Sale Date: 31 Jan 2004 15:30:12 -0600 Readers of the list: I have an Ashley contract saddle with pommel bags and saddle bags for sale. This saddle was built by Bob Schmidt of Montana. If interested please contact me off list. Keith Lawyer Denison, Texas lmlawyer@disd.net ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Wolverine Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hunter/Actor Date: 31 Jan 2004 18:05:27 -0700 Hello beaverboy, Saturday, January 31, 2004, 10:06:13 AM, you wrote: bsn> On page 63 of this weeks Newsweek(Feb 2, 2004)in the Newsmakers column bsn> actor Kurt Russell is asked if he goes hunting. bsn> "Yes, I still hunt from time to time. I bowhunt and use a rifle." bsn> Newsweek: Have you caught anything with your bow and arrow? bsn> Russell: You don't catch things with a bow and arrow. You kill them. bsn> I've gotten elk, deer, grouse, rabbit... bsn> Newsweek: Doesn't it bother Goldie (Hawn his longtime companion) that bsn> you hunt? bsn> Russell: No, she's a very good game cook. She's not a hunter, has no bsn> desire to hunt, but she's a wonderful chef." Kurt also hunts alot with Ted Nuggent. And has made 2 commercials concerning hunting with him at the YO ranch in Texas. -- Best regards, Wolverine ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag Date: 31 Jan 2004 16:31:41 -0800 I am > considering elk but I think price might push me to deer. Your thoughts. > > ED Ed, I presume your not talking about using brain tan? It would be very correct to use a softly tanned cow hide, pig hide, etc. My next pouch will be such. I'll use an oil tanned hide to cut from, not too limp and not too stiff. I've got a pouch made by a friend many years ago from commercially tanned elk. It's a nice pouch and all but it's just too limp. I had to dye it a darker color to suit my impression of how old pouches may have looked new. It was laced together rather than sewn and I've not seen may originals that were laced come to think of it. Just my thoughts on it anyway. YMOS Capt. Lahti' ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Ballstaedt" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag Date: 31 Jan 2004 17:54:41 -0700 Ed, if you like the look of the softer deer or elk skin and the stiffness of the thicker leathers. you might consider using some heavier, perhaps oil or vegetable tanned leather for the back of the pouch, using the softer leather for the front and the flap. it gives the bag the rigidity it needs to be more usable and keeps the look of bags you see in the miller paintings. tom #1834 PRP > [Original Message] > From: Stuart Family > To: > Date: 1/31/2004 1:14:24 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag > > Folks, > > I am starting to need to put together a possibilies bag and would like to > know what you'll think about what kind of hide to make it out of. I am > considering elk but I think price might push me to deer. Your thoughts. > > ED > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: beaverboy@sofast.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag Date: 31 Jan 2004 18:44:13 -0700 (MST) Ed, I would recommend making it small and carrying only what you need for a day or two of shooting. My shooting bag is but 7"x7" and about 2" deep without sides sections. It has two smaller pockets inside sewn to the back that hold smaller stuff I need to find quickly. I can fit all I need in there for several days of shooting or hunting. I believe it is made of heavy cowhide and is neither too stiff or too soft. Too many of shooters have shooting bags that weigh upwards of 5 pounds and for the life of me I do not know how they find a ball or patch in all that junk they carry in there. I call mine a shooting bag and keep only shooting stuff in it. I don't use it as a tool box. I used an old leather purse my first year hunting till I figured out what size I wanted. There is a famous painting of an early American either hunting or at a turkey shoot and his shooting pouch appears to be only about 6"x6" inches and wore high up. Refer to "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book by Madison Grant if you can find a copy. It will aid you greatly. Good luck. bb > Folks, > > I am starting to need to put together a possibilies bag and would like to > know what you'll think about what kind of hide to make it out of. I am > considering elk but I think price might push me to deer. Your thoughts. > > ED > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James and Sue Stone Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag Date: 31 Jan 2004 20:31:11 -0700 --------------070501030907000700070506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Ed! Madison Grant's book is still available, I just got all three of his books myself. The only limitation of the Hunting Pouch book is that most of his examples are post 1820 and 1830. He does have a few earlier, but he also has some in the 1870s. For earlier examples (line-drawings actually) the Frontier Rifleman has been recommended. Beaverboy is right in that the early "shooting bags" were just that. I have one and to those deminsions and if I put too much stuff in it I am followed by two kinds of people. First are the ones who say, "Is that your fowling scraper?" "Is that your burning lens?" The other type are people who seem to make wonderful surface finds of 18th century artifacts in remarkable condition...like fowling scrapers and burning lenses. In short, mine ONLY holds what I need to shoot. One item that both Madison Grant and Richard LaCrosse agree on is that there are other/additional bags...called haversacks or possibles bags. Technically haversacks are to put your lunch into, but other things ended up there. Possibles bags to me are for just that....your lenght of rope to suspend your deer when gutting it, fire bag, housewife, shaving gear, whatever. Keeping in mind that most of the BIG stuff either goes in the blanket role or knapsack. Sparks beaverboy@sofast.net wrote: >Ed, > I would recommend making it small and carrying only what you need for a >day or two of shooting. > My shooting bag is but 7"x7" and about 2" deep without sides sections. >It has two smaller pockets inside sewn to the back that hold smaller >stuff I need to find quickly. I can fit all I need in there for several >days of shooting or hunting. I believe it is made of heavy cowhide and >is neither too stiff or too soft. > Too many of shooters have shooting bags that weigh upwards of 5 pounds >and for the life of me I do not know how they find a ball or patch in >all that junk they carry in there. I call mine a shooting bag and keep >only shooting stuff in it. I don't use it as a tool box. I used an old >leather purse my first year hunting till I figured out what size I >wanted. > There is a famous painting of an early American either hunting or at a >turkey shoot and his shooting pouch appears to be only about 6"x6" >inches and wore high up. > Refer to "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book by Madison Grant if >you can find a copy. It will aid you greatly. > Good luck. > bb > > > > > >>Folks, >> >>I am starting to need to put together a possibilies bag and would like to >>know what you'll think about what kind of hide to make it out of. I am >>considering elk but I think price might push me to deer. Your thoughts. >> >>ED >> >> >>---------------------- >>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > --------------070501030907000700070506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Ed!
Madison Grant's book is still available, I just got all three of his books myself.  The only limitation of the Hunting Pouch book is that most of his examples are post 1820 and 1830.  He does have a few earlier, but he also has some in the 1870s.  For earlier examples (line-drawings actually)  the Frontier Rifleman has been recommended.  Beaverboy is right in that the early "shooting bags" were just that.  I have one and to those deminsions and if I put too much stuff in it I am followed by two kinds of people.  First are the ones who say, "Is that your fowling scraper?"  "Is that your burning lens?"  The other type are people who seem to make wonderful surface finds of 18th century artifacts in remarkable condition...like fowling scrapers and burning lenses.  In short, mine ONLY holds what I need to shoot.  

One item that both Madison Grant and Richard LaCrosse agree on is that there are other/additional bags...called haversacks or possibles bags.  Technically haversacks are to put your lunch into, but other things ended up there.  Possibles bags to me are for just that....your lenght of rope to suspend your deer when gutting it, fire bag, housewife, shaving gear, whatever.  Keeping in mind that most of the BIG stuff either goes in the blanket role or knapsack.
Sparks

beaverboy@sofast.net wrote:
Ed,
   I would recommend making it small and carrying only what you need for a
day or two of shooting.
   My shooting bag is but 7"x7" and about 2" deep without sides sections.
It has two smaller pockets inside sewn to the back that hold smaller
stuff I need to find quickly. I can fit all I need in there for several
days of shooting or hunting. I believe it is made of heavy cowhide and
is neither too stiff or too soft.
   Too many of shooters have shooting bags that weigh upwards of 5 pounds
and for the life of me I do not know how they find a ball or patch in
all that junk they carry in there. I call mine a shooting bag and keep
only shooting stuff in it. I don't use it as a tool box. I used an old
leather purse my first year hunting till I figured out what size I
wanted.
   There is a famous painting of an early American either hunting or at a
turkey shoot and his shooting pouch appears to be only about 6"x6"
inches and wore high up.
   Refer to "The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book by Madison Grant if
you can find a copy. It will aid you greatly.
   Good luck.
        bb



  
Folks,

I am starting to need to put together a possibilies bag and would like to
know what you'll think about what kind of hide to make it out of.  I am
considering elk but I think price might push me to deer.  Your thoughts.

ED


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--------------070501030907000700070506-- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Ballstaedt" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag Date: 31 Jan 2004 22:47:08 -0700 Ed, when you say possibles bag do you mean a shooting bag? or are you referring to a possibles bag separate from your shooting bag? the way i understand the terms the two are entirely separate bags. my possible bag is made of 12 oz hemp canvas, more a small haversack really. in it, i carry my wallet, fire making stuff and a few other odd items i like to keep on my person, just in case me and my pony get separated from eachother. Tom #1834 > [Original Message] > From: Stuart Family > To: > Date: 1/31/2004 1:14:24 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Possibilies Bag > > Folks, > > I am starting to need to put together a possibilies bag and would like to > know what you'll think about what kind of hide to make it out of. I am > considering elk but I think price might push me to deer. Your thoughts. > > ED > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html