From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #14 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, February 6 1998 Volume 01 : Number 014 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:12:14 EST From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides Well, the door flap on my Lodge is deer hide with the hair on. Stands to reason it would do a better job of holding in the heat and holding out the cold with the hair on. Haven't had any problem with the hair coming out all over everything either. Do have a Moose "Cape" with the hair on and I do experience the same problem as Forrest on this one, leaves hair everywhere. Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:29:06 -0800 From: Dennis Fisher Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Air guns > > They now say the air that was on display at the fort is the same type as used by Lewis, the one he used had the air tank in the stock. It has been a while since I read about the air rifle but as I recall it had a spherical air tank forward of the trigger guard area. After so many shots it had to be unscrewed and attached to a hand pump to recharged. Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:16:49 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides >Jo Tiger asked if anyone could tell how to tan a deer hide with the hair >on. > >The question I have is why would anyone want a deer hide tanned with >hair on? Well, for one thing they make nice bedding. In camp I sleep on 7 or 8 hides, spread out in my tent, that I've processed with the hair on. I lay them on the bare ground, hair side up. With the hides below me, my wool blankets and buffalo coat above, and a wool hat, I keep pretty toasty on the coldest nights. The hollow hide hairs keep cold away while the thickness of the skin keeps moisture off. Remember, with the hair on, the epidermis on the hair side adds an extra layer of water resistance, and the hairs give you the dead air space for insulation. I have never felt cold or moisture through a deer hide that has the hair intact. They're also nice to sit on when there's nothing but wet or snowy ground, and it's always a nice neighborly way to share when you have company over. There are a thousand uses for hair-on hides. Sweet dreams, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************** "Make it so!" *************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:55:10 -0800 From: Flying Cloud Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Air guns Dennis Fisher wrote: > > > > They now say the air that was on display at the fort is the same type as used by Lewis, the one he used had the air tank in the stock. > > It has been a while since I read about the air rifle but as I recall it > had a spherical air tank forward of the trigger guard area. After so > many shots it had to be unscrewed and attached to a hand pump to > recharged. > > Dennis Hi Dennis The original air gun has been found, it is now in a museum in the midwest somewhere according to the curator at Fort Clatsup. The one they had on display turned out to be different type than originally thougth to have been carried by Lewis. The one they found has the tank in the stock with a seperate hand pump. - -- Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 15:22:29 -0800 From: Bob Killingsworth Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply WIDD-Tim Austin (WIDD-Tim Austin) wrote: > > Yes, have plenty that I used for the floor of my tepee, did not finish them > entirely since they were going to be a floor and did not need to be real > soft on the flesh side. > > Because of the hair going all the time, it gets everywhere, and thus > makes it not a good idea to tan a deer hide with hair on. The stuff gets > everywhere, and the crazy thing is that they never look like they have > less hair. Have 2 large ones from MN that have had for 15 years, still > lots of hair comes off, but not sign of them getting to be less hair. Thye reason the hair comes off is that it was not set properly when the tanning was done. I refer you back to a reply to this same line a few days ago and will not take space to reinterate the method. We use the large mule deer hides we get here in Idaho for floor coverings a lot and also for capes over our skins in the winter. They work great and we do not have a problem with much hair loss at all. Soaring Eagle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:04:55 -0700 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names Sorry, I can't help you with the Mohawk. I'm just starting learn about the Iroquois in the West. I grew up (as much as I have grown up anyway) in Jim Bridger's back yard -- thinking that Old Gabe was the first mountain man to see most of this country. It has been quite a revelation as I grow long in tooth to discover that while Jim Bridger was still just a lad in St. Louis that Iroquois mountain men employed by the NWC were exploring Idaho as far south as the Bear River. - -----Original Message----- From: Fred A. Miller To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 9:06 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names >-----Original Message----- >From: David Tippets >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 8:09 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Nick names/ camp names > > >>I don't have the information to document it, but hope this grad student's >>research is published this year and it may include something about Black >>Harris. I met him at the Sept. fur trade symposium in Pinedale, but can't >>remember his name. He's one of Fred Gowans' grad student's, however, and >we >>should be able to ask Gowans for an update on the research. > > >[snip] > >David, you seem quite knowledgeable about the Iroquois. I'd like to know if >you know anything about a Mohawk chief named Tiyanoga, also known as >Hendrik. I've not had much success in gathering data. > >Thanks, > >Fred > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 21:13:46 -0700 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Watches (was: Time and Damascus Steel) Thanks, you Gottfreds! It's fun to stike gold when you don't even expect it. Have pictures of any of the mentioned watches been published in any of the literature that you have cited? Thanks, Dave. - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 8:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Watches (was: Time and Damascus Steel) >I'm turning this one over to my husband too! Jeff responds once more: > > "David Tippets" wrote: >>One interesting item from David Thompson's journal during his early years >>with the Hudson Bay Co. prior to his defection to the North West Fur Co., is >>that just as soon a clock was available that the HBC considered dependable >>and accurate enough to calculating longitude the Company immediately shipped >>Thompson one from England. There were no details about what the timepiece >>was like. > >Thompson first received two watches from the Hudson's Bay Company in 1792, >although the type and maker are not known. Both of these watches gave him >trouble, as he sent them for repair the following year, and borrowed a pair >from Joseph Colen, the Governor of York Factory. The following year (1794) >his watches returned from repair along with 'a second & stop watch with 2 >case val[ue] [pounds]12.12 - with spare glasses and keys per Jolly ordered >[serial] No. 310'. >This watch was made by Joseph Jolly, 11 Dean Street, Fetter Lane, London. >Jolly supplied watches to other early HBC explorers such as Peter Fidler >(No. 291) and Malchom Ross (No. 292) (Jeff & Angela Gottfred, "The Life of >David Thompson", in _Northwest Journal_ vol. V, citing Smyth). > >These Jolly watches appear to have been good quality 'common' watches, and >not the much more accurate 'pocket chronometers'. Even though pocket >chronometers were available, Thompson was not equipped with one. As late as >1810 he complains about the accuracy of his 'common watches'. I have >computed his watch rate during December 1810 to January 1811 at 4 seconds >per hour fast, plus or minus 9 seconds per hour. Such a watch would be >useless for direct computation of longitude. > >The pocket chronometers or 'deck watches' made by Arnold, Earnshaw and >Broeckbank were worth around 25 Guineas in 1806. Such pocket chronometers >were as accurate as a second or two per day. Note that even this is not >accurate enough for direct computation of longitude many months after the >watch is set. (How much the watch gains or loses in any time period is >irrelevant, what matters is whether the rate of gain or loss is constant. My >Seiko quartz watch gains 0.5 seconds per day - however, its rate is so >constant that I can compute GMT to one second accuracy after a year (leap >seconds notwithstanding!). Pocket chronometers did not have such constant >rates.) > >The better English made 'common' watches of the period (circa 1800) would >have used a rack lever escapement (the detached lever escapement used in >modern mechanical watches did not emerge until about 1814). >Pocket chronometers used a spring detent escapement (Arnold began producing >these in the early 1780's), required no oil, and keep just as good time >today as they did when they were first made 200 years ago. (Landes, David S. >_Revolution in Time : Clocks and the Making of the Modern World_. Belknap >Press : Cambridge, Mass, 1983. ISBN 0-674-76800-0.) > >It is also an interesting historical note that Harrison's famous >chronometers simply proved that accurate time-keeping was possible. His >designs (with the exception of the retaining power) did not survive his No. >4. The pocket and boxed marine chronometers of Arnold &c. had completely >different 'guts'. (see Sobel, Dava. _Longitude : The True Story of a Lone >Genius Who Solved the Greatist Scientific Problem of His Time_. Walker & Co. >: NY, 1995. ISBN 0-8027-1312-2) > > >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:08:09 -0800 (PST) From: zaslow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply Sorry to disagree, but deer/elk hair is hollow and no matter how you tan the hide, the hair breaks off all the time and falls out. Beaver, buffalo and other types of hides do not have hollow hair, therefore the hair stays in. That is not to say that deer/elk with the hair on cannot be used, it just means that you will have to deal with hair falling out. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ > Thye reason the hair comes off is that it was not set properly when the >tanning was done. I refer you back to a reply to this same line a few >days ago and will not take space to reinterate the method. We use the >large mule deer hides we get here in Idaho for floor coverings a lot and >also for capes over our skins in the winter. They work great and we do >not have a problem with much hair loss at all. > >Soaring Eagle > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:35:23 -0600 From: jolighthouse@webtv.net (jo tiger) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply Thanks to all you Mt.Man guys for the great info on tanning deer hides w/hair on. I think my deer hunting friend can now proceed at his own risk, if he has the "brains* to do it! :) I figured when I surfed on to this bunch, y'all would KNOW! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:27:56 EST From: J2HEARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply Jerry's right. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:14:31 -0700 From: "L. A. Romsa" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply > Thye reason the hair comes off is that it was >not set properly when the >tanning was done.=20 >Soaring Eagle I too have heard this! Although I don't have any personal experience, = YET!!!, I have been told that if the hair is not set properly it becomes = hollow ( like a straw) and easily breaks off. BrokenJaw. =20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 11:03:43 +0000 From: Longtrail Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply I agree with jerry,deer/elk hair is hollow and brittle.July deer you will find is more like fur.When I say like fur its not as hollow or brittle as fall kills or as thick.Some indian reservation start hunting in july which I feel is more suitable for hair-on tanning plus the hides are thinner.I have worked with summer hides(as I call them)and find them much easier to work with. Best regards Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:56:47 -0800 From: Dave Parks Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Deer hides I'll have to throw in with Jerry, We both been sleeping on furs and hides for years ( me, 'bout 40 years!) Jerry is a lot younger and handsome'r too! Anyway, even on the best tanned deer and elk hides the hair will fall off, not because it comes of the hide so much as it BREAKS and falls off. On a poorly tanned hide the hairs will come off like a dog shedding. The worst of all hides is antelope and carabou. Their hair is hollow tubes, and they break very easily. Deer and elk hair is not really hollow, but has a shape that looks like it is. I get to see antelope, Mule deer, and elk hair all the time. I pick little bunches of it off our barbwire fences. Coyotes and badger will leave a little hair on the bottom rung of wire as well. The old 'yotes will hit that wire running full out, when they see my .22-250 stick out of the farm truck window! Over the years I've found that I prefer to use something like canvas layers on my lodge floor, then I put down my deer and elk hides. Being tanned in basically a salt and alum solution, the dressed hides are like a sponge to moisture. It is not a good idea to lay them directly on the ground as they will suck up moisture from it and in a few days they will start to turn blackish with mold. Lay them atop another ground cover and they won't go bad on you as long as you keep them dry. I have a rather large Black bear hide that I use over my HB blanket and have never been cold with it, even in -0 weather. Buffalo hides are great, but in most cases, their price is even more crazy than what they get for HB's & Whit's. A sign of the times I guess. I smile everytime I see someone ask how to tan deer hides, because for those that have done it......we know just how much work it is! Like other things we make, they may be tiresome and hard to do, but when finished....we sure are proud of our labors. I'm fixing to drop 13 big beaver into the pickling mix at present....and I'm not looking forward to the labor part, but they'll sure look nice when I put them in their willow hoops and hang'em on the cabin walls! Regards, _M_ MAnywounds W ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:38:58 EST From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris Howdy All I recently spoke with Dr. Fred Gowans and Lynn Clayton who is a graduate student of Dr. Gowans about Moses Harris and whether he was an Iroquois. Both indicated that while it's not entirely out of the realm of possibility, there certainly is no conclusive proof that he was. (None that they are aware of) Certain clues lead one to believe that he probably was not. Most of the Iroquois trappers in the west adopted French names and Moses Harris certainly doesn't fit that mold. In Jedediah Smith and the Opening of the West, Dale Morgan writes " His given name was Moses, and he was born, it is said, in Union County, South Carolina..." Alfred Jacob Miller describes him as " of wiry form, made up of bone and muscle, with a face apparently composed of tan leather and whip cord, finished off with a peculiar blue-black tint, as if gunpowder had been burnt into his face." One thing I do know is that he certainly was a man to be admired for his incredible stamina and survival skills. Imagine walking from Bear Lake in Northern Utah to St. Louis in mid winter! And again several years later from the Wind Rivers to St. Louis, both times with Bill Sublette. That's Some! Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:51:12 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply >Sorry to disagree, but deer/elk hair is hollow and no matter how you tan the >hide, the hair breaks off all the time and falls out. Beaver, buffalo and >other types of hides do not have hollow hair, therefore the hair stays in. >That is not to say that deer/elk with the hair on cannot be used, it just >means that you will have to deal with hair falling out. > Most of my hair-on hides are 8-10 years old or more, and still have most of their hair. They are just as thick and soft as the day they were shot. Granted that deer hair does fall out, as with most skins, but very little at a time on mine, and at this rate it could be fifty years or more before I have unservicable deer hide sleeping mats. Scraped, salted, and preserved right, the skin will remain in good shape indefinitely. HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ************** "Make it so!" *************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:04:03 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" Subject: MtMan-List: Rifle Raffle Winner Hello the list, Well, we have a winner of the Jack Garner Pa Poorboy rifle raffled by the Friends of Fort Frederick. Mr. Gary Smith of Hedgesville, WV is our lucky winner. Thanks to all who supported us. We are planning another raffle to happen during the 4 days of our 18th Century Market Fair in April. More guns and the tickets will be sold during the fair and the drawings held then also. Will provide more info as it developes. Again, thanks to all. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:21:21 -0800 From: Flying Cloud Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Other guns of the Corp of Discovery Flying Cloud wrote: > > tigrbo1 wrote: > > > > JON P TOWNS wrote: > > >I have read and know for a fact that the Corp had Air Rifles > > > > Greetings Jon, > > > > Many moons ago I paid a visit to Ft. Clatsap a few miles west of > > Astoria, Ore. on the northern oregon coast, and while there I also > > toured their museum. They had on display (replica?) air guns used by > > Lewis & Clark that used a spheariod air tank that attached about where a > > magizene would go on a modern rifle. Very interesting. > >> > > Best regards, > > > > Terry Smith > > Hi terry > They now say the air that was on display at the fort is the same type > as used by Lewis, the one he used had the air tank in the stock. > -- > > Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd Hands are to fast the air gun at the fort WAS NOT THE SAME as used by Lewis - -- Jim Ellison, http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:50:36 -0500 From: kat Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply I have a hide in my shop on commission and as a display piece. It has the hair left on, and it sheds like a dog. We are forever sweeping up hair bits. I don't know where the artist got the piece from, so it may not have been a good hide in the first place. Dick, a gentleman I know who does beautiful brain tanning has always taken the hair off because of this problem. As an aside, does anyone know of a period use for the hair once it has been removed from the hide? 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Grasshoppa >I agree with jerry,deer/elk hair is hollow and brittle.July deer you >will find is more like fur.When I say like fur its not as hollow or >brittle as fall kills or as thick.Some indian reservation start hunting >in july which I feel is more suitable for hair-on tanning plus the hides >are thinner.I have worked with summer hides(as I call them)and find them >much easier to work with. Best regards Joe > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:02:01 EST From: JSeminerio@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Air guns- I want one Does any one know if there are any gun makers making muzzle loading air guns ??? I've always wanted one !!!! Does any one know anything about the St Vitus Corp ??? I've heard stories around the camp fire at Voo that during the Napoleanic wars, the English sniped at night using these flashless rifles and the victims would jump up twitching and fall down dead like those stricken with the St Vitus Dance. Is that story true ???? Any other info out there ??? Watch your topknot JS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:40:08 EST From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply In a message dated 98-02-05 10:08:30 EST, you write: << Sorry to disagree, but deer/elk hair is hollow and no matter how you tan the hide, the hair breaks off all the time and falls out >> I'll tell my door flap to start losing it's hair pronto, apparantly it doesn't know any better. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:42:08 -0700 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris To: Teton Tod Re: Black Harris From: D.Tippets You sure know more about Black Harris than I do, but I wouldn't discount his potential for having a NE Indian lineage by his Christian name. One of the things the Iroquois in the West became famous for were four attempts to travel from Flathead country to St. Louis to get a Priest to teach the Salish about Christ. They were finally successful, resulting in Father DeSmet, Father Point, and other black robes heading to the Rockies to teach the Indians. His British surname is not conclusive either, as there were enough Scots and English in Lower Canada to help the French mix Iroquis blood. A Canadian Park Ranger told me last summer that there are even Irish-sired subgroups of Metis. Being born in South Carolina, however, doesn't seem to contribute much to the arguement. - -----Original Message----- From: TetonTod@aol.com To: hist_text@xmission.com Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 1:31 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Moses "Black " Harris >Howdy All > > I recently spoke with Dr. Fred Gowans and Lynn Clayton who is a >graduate student of Dr. Gowans about Moses Harris and whether he was an >Iroquois. Both indicated that while it's not entirely out of the realm of >possibility, there certainly is no conclusive proof that he was. (None that >they are aware of) > Certain clues lead one to believe that he probably was not. Most of the >Iroquois trappers in the west adopted French names and Moses Harris certainly >doesn't fit that mold. In Jedediah Smith and the Opening of the West, Dale >Morgan writes " His given name was Moses, and he was born, it is said, in >Union County, South Carolina..." Alfred Jacob Miller describes him as " of >wiry form, made up of bone and muscle, with a face apparently composed of tan >leather and whip cord, finished off with a peculiar blue-black tint, as if >gunpowder had been burnt into his face." > One thing I do know is that he certainly was a man to be admired for >his incredible stamina and survival skills. Imagine walking from Bear Lake in >Northern Utah to St. Louis in mid winter! And again several years later from >the Wind Rivers to St. Louis, both times with Bill Sublette. That's Some! > >Todd Glover > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:17:52 -0800 From: Dave Parks Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Door flap Lodgepole, don't ever lose that door flap, you'd never be able to replace it, it's gotta be one out of a 1000! regards, Manywounds ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:12:23 EST From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flatheads looking for Holy Book Dave, In your post re: Moses Harris you referenced the Flatheads who came East looking for spiritual guidance. I've always heard that too and have seen nothing to refute it. However, in the PBS Lewis and Clark special, did you catch when they said that was not the reason the Flatheads came to St. Louis? I was surprised to hear that. Anyone else notice that? Anyone have any documentation that's not why they came? Jim Hardee AMM 1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:27:39 -0700 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Iroquois at 1825 rendezvous Kat, I assume that you are asking the source for the Indian effigy hood. I started with what appears in paintings by Alfred Jacob Miller and are interpreted in the Mountain Man Sketchbook. Comments from people who reproduced these hoods were that they were hard to keep on the head without tying them on under the chin. Then I observed in a couple of sketches by a 19th Century artist named Eastman, that the effigy hoods worn by the Ojibwa appeared much more form fitting than those depicted by Miller, however, Eastman showed people wearing them in mid winter while Miller showed mountain men wearing them during the spring or summer when they may not have wanted tight woolen blanketing around their heads. I also located two sketches by Ellsworth Jaeger from the Buffalo Museum of Science showing Penobscot Indians in effigy hunting hoods. Jaeger's sketches, like Eastman's, showed form fitting effigy hoods. After cutting out the blanket pieces as suggested in the Mountain Man Sketchbook, I tacked them together then made the tailoring adjustments needed so that it would actually fit my head. It'll stay on in a strong wind blowing down the Yellowstone in winter with no chin strap needed. I wish Alfred Jacob Miller had stayed in the Rockies for four seasons and given us a year-round view, rather than just a summer perspective. Had Miller done that, I suspect he would have painted close fitting effigy hoods more like those depicted by Eastman and Jaeger. - -----Original Message----- From: kat To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 2:59 PM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Iroquois at 1825 rendezvous >no, then you would have been an elf. Could you please post your source for the hat? > >Kat > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:01:42 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: tanning deer hides -Reply -Reply Kat wrote: . As an aside, does anyone know of a period use for the hair once it has been removed from the hide? Kat, We have several books on Indians and in a couple they tell of balls of leather with a small rock in the center (for weight) and stuffed with deer hair before sewn shut. We have made several for our kids and given many away. The children think they are great and play for hours at rondys with them. Also, it was used to stuff winter mocs, but after trying this, I wouldn't recommend wearing socks at the same time! Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:49:47 -0500 From: Ron Valley Subject: MtMan-List: FW: 1837 Smallpox & Jeffery Amherst Hello the list - Earlier this week, or last, I seem to recall that someone asked for information pertaining to smallpox. Although I deleted that message, I found the following entry dating back to the month of June within a reference file I maintain. Hope it helps. OBTW, does anyone out there know if the man who won the rifle in a raffle recently, is the same Gary Smith who lived in NH at one time and went by the handle of 'Sour Dough' ? - -- Ron Valley - ---------- From: Loren Rochester[SMTP:ldr@terracom.net] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 1997 10:38 AM To: hist_text Subject: Re: MtMan-List: 1837 Smallpox I'm not a doctor, but smallpox infected blankets were used during Pontiac's Rebellion by Amherst. I just did a web search and found the following link http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/nativeweb/subject/amherst/lord_jeff.html check it out! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 13:15:19 +0000 From: Longtrail Subject: MtMan-List: smallpox I found this book to be very informitive. It cost about 8 bucks or so. AN ETHNOHISTORICAL INTERPERETATION OF THE SPREAD OF SMALLPOX IN THE NORTHERN PLAINS UTILIZING CONCEPTS OF DISEASE ECOLOGY By Michael K. Trimble A study conducted for the National Park Service=20 Midwest Region Midwestern Archeological Center Lincoln, Nebraska Under Purchase Order Px-6115-9-054A Department of Anthropology College of Arts and Science University of Missouri-=C7olubmia Columbia, Missouri 65211 ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #14 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. 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