From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #39 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, March 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 039 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:13:26 -0800 From: Dave Parks Subject: MtMan-List: RE: Info. Sources In an earlier post I mentioned how it would be nice to mention specifics when answering someones question. If you know where someone can locate the info they need. It would be extremely helpful and expediant to include the URL, address, book publisher, etc. So they don't have to post another inquiry in repetition. What may be common knowledge to some will not be the same to others. We all appreciate it when there is a nice blue URL to click on or an name and address for a source of something we may be interested in. I often bookmark them just for reference. ie: Panther Primitives P.O. Box 32-T Normantown, WV. 25267 (304) 462-7718 (Cat. #10 $2.00) Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ThisOldFox wrote: > > Charlie Webb writes: > > > Could I impose on you to say a few words about > > the kind of canvas or material you are using and it's > > approximate weight? Any one who wishes to comment please > > do so. I have tried many lighter weight fabrics over the past 40 > > years but for one reason or another this old chunk of canvas > > seems to work best except for the extra burden of getting it > > into the woods. > > Many back east are starting to carry tarps made of oilcloth. They are very > light, period correct, and can serve several other purposes. I believe that > Panther Primitives are selling this product, if memory serves me right. > > Dave Kanger ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:07:15 EST From: LODGEPOLE Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents In a message dated 98-03-15 23:37:32 EST, you write: << ***************************************** While the Baker style tent is accepted at most rendezvous, it was not actually introduced until around 1900. These were given to such groups as the Boy Scouts as military surplus. Since many people had them, they became accepted at the rendezvous. But to be accurate, they do not fit the 1810 time period. (From Jo Strinz) ***************************************** >> Lee, The reason for the acceptance of the Baker and the Whealen (also non period) is thier similarity in design to structures that the mountainmen would build out of a support structure that was basically the same arrangement as the Baker and Whealen and then covered with a mass of pine boughs. As it isn't either appropriate or even possible to go out and about at a rendezvous and start hacking away on the trees in the area to build such a structure, a canvas version is accepatable, just like canavas tipis are acceptable. Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:48:08 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Canvas and Oilcloth On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, ThisOldFox wrote: > Many back east are starting to carry tarps made of oilcloth. They are very > light, period correct, and can serve several other purposes. I believe that > Panther Primitives are selling this product, if memory serves me right. My experiance with oil cloth is limited, well make that nonexistant. Does not oil cloth tend to deteriote quickly at the fold marks? And how does the wieght compare to... say 10 oz canvas? Always questions, questions, questions... Regards and as always, thanks. Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:14:25 EST From: RR1LA Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides Funny the slant you get depending on who you're talking too. I was speaking with a guy from the California (land of fruits and nuts) Dept of Fish and Game, and he was telling me that the Mule and Whitetail Deer populations are at their greatest numbers in history. And here's the kicker: they attribute that to the demise of the Buffalo, which made room for the Deer herds, deforestation for lumber production and development of lands for residential areas. Basically their theory is that now there is vast amounts of habitat preferred by Deer, i.e. grasslands and parklands vs. plains and forest. Also that the wolf, which was virtually their only natural predator has been eliminated. Go figure. Seems to me the whole country used to be grasslands and forest, but not according to the people in charge of wildlife. Anybody got a thought on this? PJ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:39:28 -0600 From: "Pamela Wheeler" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents & an old Mtn. mans response Howdy you all and Longshot, I sure am happy to hear that we can use the Baker and Whelen tents w/o offending half the camp! I am too banged up to just roll up by a fire like I used too! Sold the tipi to Lance years ago and most eastern rendezvous I slept anywhere that looked comfortable. I remember one time I hung a piece of canvas between two trees and dropped rocks on the rear corners. Made a great place for my gear and I slept by the fire. Yes, I was a lazy camper. Besides all that wasted time could be better used to trade and hunt and eat! Some of you Greybeards may remember my antics at rendezvous. If none of you young whipper snappers mind I will use my Baker or whatever it is unless it is a pack in and then I will just use a piece of canvas to roll up in. Just don't let me hear your rubber air mattress squeak, I have been known to count coup on the "rubber maidens"! Yellow Feather AMM # 251 - ---------- > From: LODGEPOLE > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents > Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 7:07 PM > > In a message dated 98-03-15 23:37:32 EST, you write: > > << ***************************************** > While the Baker style tent is accepted at most rendezvous, it was not > actually introduced until around 1900. These were given to such groups as > the Boy Scouts as military surplus. Since many people had them, they > became accepted at the rendezvous. But to be accurate, they do not fit > the 1810 time period. > (From Jo Strinz) > ***************************************** >> > > Lee, > The reason for the acceptance of the Baker and the Whealen (also non > period) is thier similarity in design to structures that the mountainmen would > build out of a support structure that was basically the same arrangement as > the Baker and Whealen and then covered with a mass of pine boughs. As it > isn't either appropriate or even possible to go out and about at a rendezvous > and start hacking away on the trees in the area to build such a structure, a > canvas version is accepatable, just like canavas tipis are acceptable. > > Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:41:41 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware Hallo Again! I'd like to thank all of those that responded to my never ending questions on gear and such. I know I can always count on this group to steer me in the right directions when I'm looking for stuff. As ya'll have probably gathered, I am in the process of replacing gear with documented equipment. It's a fun, if expensive process. I'm just hoping that the Missus don't toss me out afore I'm done. She mutters a lot about expensive toys, but hasn't yet reached for the skillet! Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder" Webpage http://www.uidaho.edu/~lnewbill/bp.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:28:44 -0800 From: Omanson & Hollinger Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides I believe here in West Virginia the whitetail population is at its highest ever. There was recently a bill before the state legislature to legalize the use of roadkill deer. I think it was defeated because a few congressmen were worried about the state's "image". But the point is that the deer are practically overrunning the place, and dead deer by the road are a continual sight. I don't know if there are any deer farms in the state or not, but I would be suprised, as a deer farm in WV would be just a little redundant. B. David Tippets wrote: > > Mule deer population in Utah are at the lowest level they've been in the > last half of this Century -- maybe even the lowest of the Century. The > biologists whom I've discussed it with don't expect the populations to ever > recover to level that they were at in 1960s-1970s, and tell me that most > other western States mule deer populations have also declined.. > > I can't help you with info about deer farms. > > It sounds like to me, that if the law of supply and demand holds true for > buckskin, prices are going to be going up in the West. Maybe whitetail deer > will fill the niche in some places, but they sure won't here Suburbanville. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Longtrail > To: hist_text@xmission.com > Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 9:37 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: deer hides > > >I am running short of hides, please advise if you know of any deer > >farms. Also would be interested in setting something up with > >individuals for the next hunting season. Thanks Longtrail > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:28:25 -0700 From: "David Tippets" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD5176.46410920 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, The dictionaries don't all have the same thing to say about "capote," = however, the Random House Unabridged edition that you use is definately = the most colorful. How or where do I find this edition, and how did you = manage to excerpt part of it and mail it to the AMM list? It's a pretty = cool magic trick! Dave T. -----Original Message----- From: John Kramer To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 8:08 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons =20 =20 At the risk of extending this discussion.=20 Random House Unabridged Dictionary seems to indicate a capote = can still be, nearly anything anyone wants it to be. =20 =20 A bullfighters cape, a bonnet, a strange little fellow, a = "pretty little surrey with fringe on the top." It can even be a hooded = cloak. =20 =20 begin dictionary quote ...=20 ca=B7pote (k=C3 p=8Et=C6; Fr. kA p=F4t=C6), n., pl. -potes = (-p=8Ets=C6; Fr. -p=F4t=C6).=20 1. a long cloak with a hood.=20 2. a close-fitting, caplike bonnet worn by women and children in = the mid-Victorian period.=20 3. a bullfighter's cape; capa.=20 4. an adjustable top or hood of a vehicle, as a buggy.Also, = capot.=20 [1790=961800, Amer.; < F, equiv. to cape (< Sp capa CAPE1) + = - -ote, fem. of -ot dim. suffix] =20 =20 Ca=B7po=B7te (k=C3 p=8E=C6t=81), n.=20 Truman, 1924=9684, U.S. novelist, short-story writer, and = playwright.=20 End dictionary quote ... =20 Regarding pronounciations mentioned in an earlier posting consider = from above: - k=C3 p=8Et=C6 - k=C3 p=8E=C6t=81 =20 =20 =20 WARNING:=20 =20 The following questions will only be answerable by those of wry = humor and sufficient majority. =20 Now just where did the penchant for pronounciation of the "e" come = from? And what does this say about those who use it? =20 John...=20 I have included "styled" text and obscure dictionary symbols in = this posting; as a test. If something strange comes through please = forward to me on the side. Of course if it all comes through blank you = won't be able to read this part.=20 =20 =20 John T. Kramer, maker of: Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< - >>>As good as old!<<< http://www.kramerize.com/ mail to: john=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD5176.46410920 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
John,
 
The dictionaries don't all have the same thing to = say about=20 "capote," however, the Random House Unabridged edition that = you use is=20 definately the most colorful.  How or where do I find this edition, = and how=20 did you manage to excerpt part of it and mail it to the AMM list?  = It's a=20 pretty cool magic trick!
 
Dave T.
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
T= o:=20 hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 Monday, March 16, 1998 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: = MtMan-List: Capote=20 oxymorons

At the=20 risk of extending this discussion.=20
Random House Unabridged Dictionary seems to indicate a = capote can=20 still be, nearly anything anyone wants it to be.

A bullfighters cape,  a bonnet, a strange little = fellow, a=20 "pretty little surrey with fringe on the top."  = It can=20 even be a hooded cloak.
begin dictionary quote ...=20
ca·pote (kà p=8EtÆ; Fr. kA pôtÆ), n., pl. = -potes=20 (-p=8EtsÆ; Fr. = - -pôtÆ).
1. a long cloak with a hood.=20
2. a close-fitting, caplike bonnet worn by women and = children in=20 the mid-Victorian period.=20
3. a bullfighter's cape; capa.=20
4. an adjustable top or hood of a vehicle, as a = buggy.Also,=20 capot.=20
[1790–1800, Amer.; < F, equiv. to = cape (<=20 Sp capa CAPE1) + -ote, = fem. of=20 -ot dim. suffix]
Ca·po·te (kà = p=8EÆt=81), n.
Truman, 1924–84, U.S. novelist, short-story = writer, and=20 playwright.
End dictionary quote = ...

Regarding pronounciations mentioned in an earlier posting = consider=20 from above:  -  kà p=8EtÆ  -  kà = p=8EÆt=81


WARNING:
The following questions will only be answerable by = those of wry=20 humor and sufficient majority.

Now just where did the = penchant for=20 pronounciation of the "e" come from?  And what does = this say=20 about those who use it?

John...=20
I have included "styled" text and obscure = dictionary=20 symbols in this posting; as a test.  If something strange = comes=20 through please forward to me on the side.  Of course if it = all=20 comes through blank you won't be able to read this = part.

John T. Kramer, maker of:  Kramer's Best Antique = Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<  - =20 >>>As good as old!<<<
mail to:=20 john<kramer@kramerize.com> - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BD5176.46410920-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:18:32 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tents As it >isn't either appropriate or even possible to go out and about at a rendezvous >and start hacking away on the trees in the area to build such a structure, a >canvas version is accepatable, just like canavas tipis are acceptable. Canvas tipis became popular on the plains in part because the tribes noticed Conestoga-type wagon covers as good shelter material. Also, the Indians saw the market in buffalo robes as a boon to their economy and shifted their labor strategy away from tipi making. This market shift left too few tanned winter skins for tipi use, which led to an almost universal acceptance of canvas as a substitute. Although, tipis could still be made with summer skins, by the 1860s, canvas was widely used by the Indians as tipi material, and new buffalo hide tipis were hard to find. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ********** Opening Day, March 31!!! ********** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:40:01 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: MtMan-List: Re:. gunmaker named Amos Polk hello the list: trying to find any information available about Amos Polk---gunsmith--. does anyone know what time period he worked the style of weapons he produced the area of the country that he lived or does anyone have any pictures of any of his work. he should have worked in the late 1700 to early 1800 by his style. I have exhausted all the reference books that i have and find no reference to him. I need a good starting point to find info about him. i may have to go to the genological database to get a starting point. i know that this is not a common name. "COULD ANYONE PLEASE HELP" "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL: HAWKNEST4@JUNO.COM *************************END OF MSG****************************** _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:55:26 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides I know that this wont help you right now but if you go by a local processor several months befor deer season you can make a deal with them to buy the hides from the deer that they process. in and around the St Louis area most of the deer processors have several hundred whitetail hides that they sell or some wont even bother and throw away the hides. most of the people that take in a deer to be processed don't want the hides because of the cost of processing and the bother. I saw a stack of deer at a processor near Macon MO. they must have had 250 deer in a pile to be processed. The guy told me that he processed about 400 to 500 deer a year. I asked the owner what he did with the hides. he said that he sends the bigger ones off and the smaller ones get trashed. one year he gave me 12 nice hides, and several sets of small horns to use to make stuff. i made him a nice knife in return. talk to these processors you will be suprised what a deal they will make with you. most whitetail hides will run abour 8 to 10 SQ. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:10:56 -0700 "David Tippets" writes: >Mule deer population in Utah are at the lowest level they've been in >the >last half of this Century -- maybe even the lowest of the Century. >The >biologists whom I've discussed it with don't expect the populations to >ever >recover to level that they were at in 1960s-1970s, and tell me that >most >other western States mule deer populations have also declined.. > >I can't help you with info about deer farms. > >It sounds like to me, that if the law of supply and demand holds true >for >buckskin, prices are going to be going up in the West. Maybe >whitetail deer >will fill the niche in some places, but they sure won't here >Suburbanville. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Longtrail >To: hist_text@xmission.com >Date: Sunday, March 15, 1998 9:37 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: deer hides > > >>I am running short of hides, please advise if you know of any deer >>farms. Also would be interested in setting something up with >>individuals for the next hunting season. Thanks Longtrail >> >> > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:52:49 -0700 From: cwebbbpdr@juno.com (Charlie P. Webb) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware I have all the "Baker Tapes", if you recall, Mark says he seldom packs the "oiled tarp" with him anymore due to weight, what he demonstrates is basically a ground cloth/bedroll cover and shelter combination. A 10x10 diamond oiled as Mark demonstrates would weigh even more. I have had very poor long term results with the oiled material available from the Tentsmiths, and Panther. It works fine for a few forages, but then begins to come apart in our Colorado winds. I have used the dark brown, the green and the natural, none of these fabrics in my estimation are suitable for 10 days to two weeks in the woods for use as a ground cloth, but do for awhile any way turn away the rain, snow and sleet when used as a shelter. Hail is another story. The light weight oiled material makes excellent foul weather ponchos or watch coats, but I am not sold on them for larger items like 10x10 plus sized diamond flys. What I have said here is my opinion based on my experiences with the light, weight oiled cloth, I am certainly interested in others experiences as they may greatly differ from mine. The oiled cloth to me is wonderful stuff, but not the total answer to all my assumed needs. If any one knows how to make an attachment of a 10x10 fly to e-mail that would simply mail my fly to my camp spot before I get there and save me the labor packing it in myself I would appreciate hearing about it. <> C Webb CC CO. "Mike Haught" writes: >Mark Baker's "Longhunter Series covers how to make an oilcloth. I >think it >is Tape #1. > > -mwh > "Possum, the other white meat!" >-----Original Message----- >From: ThisOldFox >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: Monday, March 16, 1998 4:57 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Camp Gear, Tents & Cookware > > >>Charlie Webb writes: >> >>> Could I impose on you to say a few words about >>> the kind of canvas or material you are using and it's >>> approximate weight? Any one who wishes to comment please >>> do so. I have tried many lighter weight fabrics over the past 40 >>> years but for one reason or another this old chunk of canvas >>> seems to work best except for the extra burden of getting it >>> into the woods. >> >>Many back east are starting to carry tarps made of oilcloth. They >are very >>light, period correct, and can serve several other purposes. I >believe >that >>Panther Primitives are selling this product, if memory serves me >right. >> >>Dave Kanger >> > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:36:01 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capote oxymorons At 07:28 AM 3/17/98 -0700, Dave T wrote:
John,
=A0
The dictionaries don't all have the same thing to say about "capote," however, the Random House Unabridged edition that you use is definately the most colorful.=A0 How or where do I find this edition, and how did you manage to excerpt part of it and mail it to the AMM list?=A0 It's a pretty cool magic trick!
=A0
Dave,

Not quite so magical as you might think.  I bought a large standard Random House at the bookstore.  Inside a pocket on the back cover was a CD with the entire dictionary on disk.  Sounds, pictures, pronunciations, the whole thing.  Have only ever seen the one copy.  Gave away the paper version.  Simple copy and paste + edit.  Yep, all the dictionaries have variations, so capote can mean even more different things.  There were other copies in the store which did not include the CD.  I have found it almost as good as my 1920's Merriam-Webster hard copy.

The only CD dictionary I've found which is more complete is the OED version, last time I checked the price it was nearly $900.00; my Random House was only 29.95, on sale.

John...
Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.
John Kramer
kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:49:31 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides >I know that this wont help you right now but if you go by a local >processor several months befor deer season you can make a deal with them >to buy the hides from the deer that they process. My best source for hides while I was living in Wisconsin was the butcher shops, as Pierce stated. Also, check local taxidermy shops. Many times people can't afford full mounts made, but will go for a cape mount (head and neck). After the cape is taken, you still have a good size hide left (on midwest deer anyway) of about 3-4 ft square or better. Midwestern states like Wisconsin, Missouri, Michigan, etc. grow large specimens of deer. I think the availability of ready feed (corn crops, brush, etc.) and good wildlife management are key factors. Pennsylvania is also one of the premier deer states in the country. Best time is to make inquiries well ahead of deer season, and follow up w/o being a pest. Chances are good that they might just outright give you what you need. Leave your name and phone and ask them to keep you informed with what comes in. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ********** Opening Day, March 31!!! ********** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:25:06 -0800 From: Dave Parks Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Deer hides & numbers The State of Utah has seen a tremendous drop in it's deer population if you compare todays numbers with those of the 1950's & '60's. It's mule deer numbers are on the rise though. Winter kill is the number one cause of deer population decreases and always has been. Severe cold weather or large amounts of snow staying on the ground for weeks covering up their food supply are the main reason for drops in deer counts. Road kill numbers can be high along with coyote predation. Combine this with two or three severe winters in a row.....and you can lose half of a state's deer population. Todays low prices on coyote pelts has brought the coyote populations to an all time high. This is contributing to the increasing problem with fawn survival shortly after birth. This has really begone to effect our antelope population here in Oregon as in other states. Recently the Government had to shoot coyotes on the Hart Mountain Antelope Refuge here in south/eastern Oregon because they were killing a very high percentage of the antelope fawns. Again they were faced with the outcry from the usual groups of nature fakers and animal rights groups that tried to block the shooting of coyotes. Intelligently they went ahead with the shoot and brought the coyote numbers down a peg or two. There is an equation here that is very simple and easy to understand, the average antelope has one or sometimes two fawns a year. On the other hand, coyotes have an average of 7-9 pups a year, of which 5 survive to maturity. An antelope breeds in it's second year, a coyote breeds in it's first year. Considering this, at the end of ten years...starting out with two antelope and two coyotes....and given the averages of survival, ie. Coyotes = five pups and antelope 1.5 fawns per season. my math shows me that we have about 50 antelope and a total of 6,327 coyotes surviving! Now these figures may not be exact (nature never is) but they give you a little basis to understand what a deer is up against. All hunting is controlled by either the states or the feds depending on the game hunted. Neither will let a species become "shot out by hunters". Hunters will not shoot out a species like some did in the past (passenger pidgeon, carolina parrot, buffalo, wolf, etc.) when market hunting was a money maker for many. In Montana & Wyoming, the Whitetail is pushing the mule deer out of it's old habitats. It's happenning here in Oregon to some extent, but not as prevalent as our huge Elk populations that are doing the same to both our Mule Deer and Columbian Blacktails. In some areas of Oregon the Fish & Wildlife Department is considering giving two elk tags per hunter wishing them. This may help to trim down these wildly expanding elk herds. I just wish that when the Bunny huggers scream about these extra tags, they would come up with the money to re-locate the elk instead of chipping so much about it. They wouldn't be caught dead buying a hunting license and yet they won't give a dime to a Fish & Game Department to improve the habitat. Hunters have done more to support wildlife than anyone else in history. This done, it's only fitting that they should be able to reap the benifits of a renewable resource such as their states game. It is very difficult to make a city dweller with no knowledge of how real nature works ( not the stuff on Disney and 90% of The Animal Planet shows) and what it is we get out of our hunting and the satifaction of a well cooked meal of wild game. As mentioned in earlier posts, rural butcher shops are a great place to pick up hides of not only deer, but bear, elk and cow hides. Where I live, we call out a butcher truck ot kill truck. They will come out to your ranch and process a steer, sheep or whatever for $15.00. They will dispatch the animal, bleed it, skin it, and haul it in to their shop to be hung & cooled. They will cut and wrap for .22 cents a pound. If you wish to keep the hide of a steer they will charge you $15.00, as this is what they get for them. Often bear hunters will not wish to keep their games hide. There are fifty-five gallon drums placed around the deer and elk hunting areas during the hunting seasons. These are painted and have the owners name & number on them. Hunters drop their hides off in these barrels. This may be another good way to get all the hides you need. You'll have to do a bit of driving during the seasons though. There are plaenty of hides to be had each year, you just have to discover way s to obtain them. Regards, _M_ Manywounds W ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:36:31 EST From: Traphand Subject: MtMan-List: need help i know we have all done this i got a ramrod stuck in the barrel,i know what you are going to ask.cannot do it i think the rod is wedged in the barrel .the rod must have broken into two pieces .i have pu lled the breech and got the ball out. my next thing is to drill it out but before that i thouht i might ask for a little advice. could not shoot it out ,lost the pressure through the touch hole.this is what i am thinking of doing. will weld drill bit to a stock of steel and make a few sleeves so i stay center .i think i got around 10 in. of wood stunk in her.if any one out there could give me a better idea would love to here it. R P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:29:21 -0700 From: Bill Klesinger Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need help if the breech plug is out drive a steel rod wraped in tape through the bore. Traphand wrote: > i know we have all done this i got a ramrod stuck in the barrel,i know what > you are going to ask.cannot do it i think the rod is wedged in the barrel .the > rod must have broken into two pieces .i have pu lled the breech and got the > ball out. my next thing is to drill it out but before that i thouht i might > ask for a little advice. could not shoot it out ,lost the pressure through the > touch hole.this is what i am thinking of doing. will weld drill bit to a > stock of steel and make a few sleeves so i stay center .i think i got around > 10 in. of wood stunk in her.if any one out there could give me a better idea > would love to here it. > R P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:33:42 -0700 From: Bill Klesinger Subject: Re: MtMan-List: deer hides > check with your local fish an game. they will some time sell hides and other > parts that have been confiscated. this is a good sorce for lots of spare > parts, bear, elk, beaver !!! bill klesinger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:05:25 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: need help >i know we have all done this i got a ramrod stuck in the barrel,i know what >you are going to ask.cannot do it i think the rod is wedged in the barrel .the >rod must have broken into two pieces .i have pu lled the breech and got the >ball out. You've opened the breech, so what you have essentially is a steel tube with an obstruction. Dump some 3&1 or clean motor oil into the breech end to lube the obstruction. Find a steel rod a little smaller than your bore. Secure the barrel in a vise, and insert the rod into the breech end. Use a ballpeen hammer or 3-5# hammer and pound the stuck rod back out the muzzle end. Make sure you don't mar the rifling, and try to hit the stuck rod tip square. If I understand the problem correctly, that could be one solution. Good luck, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ********** Opening Day, March 31!!! ********** ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #39 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.