From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #52 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, April 15 1998 Volume 01 : Number 052 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:13:58 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar From: Capt. Lahti; Wilson Price Hunt Party/ Hairy Lizards Subject: RE: MTMAN-List: pine tar Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 11:06 AM I got some Pine Tar from England Marine Supply in Astoria OR. last summer to use on the rigging of my 19' battaeu., but I'm sure it is available at the other sources mentioned in previous notes. If you want the phone number or address of England Marine feel free to get back to me. - ---------- > From: CT OAKES > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pine tar > Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 5:55 AM > > In a message dated 98-04-09 22:40:25 EDT, you write: > > << >>What exactly is pine tar, and also where can you get it??! > >>I can't seem to find anyone with any info on it. > >> > >>Matt Mitchell > >>Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders > >>Moscow, Idaho >> > > Check any farm feed store, Pine Tar is available in small tins. It is a > common first aid for chickens that are getting pecked by other chickens. It > is also available at places that sell trees and shrubs as it is good for > sealing off a branch after pruning. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:50:54 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Women's hoods "David Tippets" wrote: >Let me make sure I've gotten your meaning correctly by restating what I >believe you said in in my own words. >My words: Indian women decorated efigy hoods profusely so that the hoods >didn't look so goofy. Is that your meaning? Well, I'm not sure it was an entirely serious hypothesis! I have an undecorated hood and it looks very ugly to me. I won't be wearing it in public until I've got some decoration on it, so it doesn't look quite so goofy. However, the perspective of fur trade-era Native women may have been quite different. Just to keep things straight, these aren't 'effigy hoods' (the ones with the ears) but are rectangular hoods. >Second question; how far may we extend this logic to other things women >decorated profusely? I don't know! It is something to keep in mind though. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:51:08 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: 5" brim Hats, and Why I Hate Sketchbooks. Dave "Manywounds" Parks wrote: >Hi Ron, Yes, the 5" brim would run all the way around the crown, if >it was just in the front.....it would look like a baseball cap. Baseball-style caps did exist in the fur trade. They were (and are) called 'jockey caps'. David Thompson took 6 jockey caps over the Athabasca Pass in 1810-1811 (Belyea, 255-257). In 1820, the HBC's George Simpson ordered over 50 jockey caps for the Athabasca outfit of 1821-1822. In the _Voyageur's Sketchbook_, there is a sketch on around page 4 of a jockey cap decorated by marabou feathers. The original of this sketch is attributed to "Meyer". - --Rant alert!-- I HATE SKETCHBOOKS! They drive me N-U-T-S! I don't know of any artist called "Meyer" who drew or painted voyageurs, and there is no other indication in the sketchbook of the name of the painting, the full name of the artist, or where this particular painting or drawing might be found. The same goes for almost everything else in this sketchbook, and this is typical of sketchbooks aimed at reenactors--lots of pretty pictures and very definite statements, but very rarely is there anything to back up the claims or explain where to find the original source. Yet the information often comes from people who are, presumably, knowledgeable in the subject area... It makes me want to take the author/artist and shake them... - --End of rant.-- I'd love to know more about jockey caps. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:15:11 -0700 From: "Sommer J. Smouse" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous Linda Holley wrote: > I just > left the "Mouse House" and they are having toooooo good of a time. What is the "Mouse House"? Sounds like a term my family uses for my folks place. Forrest Smouse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:33:49 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: South Eastern Rendezvous The "mouse House" is one of our subscribers wife's tent. It is the sign they hang out side to let us know who they are. Linda Holley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:46:27 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: powder horn repair(is there any worm holes ) sent you a message offline on plugging and carving horns. now i dont know if i did the right thing or not. is your question i have some original powder horns and they need repairing or i have some old horns and want to make powder horns out of them.. I can give you input on repairing old horns if that is the question. One thing that i need to know are there any worm holes in the horns. a lot of very old horns have worm holes for some reason. cracks in old horns indicate that they are drying out and need some moisture (IE oil or the like.) "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 21:59:12 EDT Traphand writes: >got three very old horns at a sell last weekend. the horns are flaking >and >starting to creak.what has anyone tried that worked.thanks > > traphand > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:24:57 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves >For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the buffalo >hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, I >don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a >"better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while trying >to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father >would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not >the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. We must remember that in dealing with cultures, we are really talking about individuals, who may or may not have followed cultural custom to the letter. The boy may very well have reason to fear his "father's bow across his back." Some confusion about the Indian side of the film could come from the fact that the screen writer chose to deviate from the book and depict the Lakota, instead of the Comanche. In the book, the tribe is Comanche. Kicking Bird was a Kiowa and Ten Bears was Comanche, and the setting was somewhere on the southern plains. Fort Segwick (Julesburg, Co.) in the movie was actually a post in SW Kansas or the Indian Territory in the book, but I can't remember its name. The language in the film is Lakota, but the situations are pretty much Southern Plains. For instance, Ten Bears talks about the Spanish coming, and shows Dunbar the helmet of a Conquistador. Sorry folks, but the Spanish didn't get far into Sioux territory. It's more likely that it's a souvenir found on the plains of Texas, SW Kansas or Oklahoma. The buffalo hunt scene was well done EXCEPT Dunbar's weapon of choice. Why in the heck he used a Henry when he had all those Sharps carbines on hand is beyond me. He should have kept a few out and buried the rest. It's hard enough to hit a buff in his tender spot behind the ear or into its heart on a dead run, but to do so with a small caliber (.44 Henry is small to a buffalo) rifle is near impossible. A .52 Sharps might have been a better choice. Oh, well. The Director's Cut answers a lot of questions and explains much more than the released version does. It is still a great film, which, since its release in 1990, has inspired a whole new crop of historical dramas. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 20:30:49 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Guess what. The wife and kids are taking off during Mem. Day weekend to visit her parents, which leaves me all that time to play. I know someone out there has the whats and wheres of rendezvous and reenactments going on that weekend that I could choose from. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I don't want to blow it. WAUGH!!! Any Suggestions/Invitations? Does Ft. Larned still do an event? Let me know. Cheers, HBC, aka Hears-The-Quiet ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:31:55 EDT From: EmmaPeel2 Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? Went to an event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one was there. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Apr 98 19:33:15 +0000 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves. DWW is darn good entertainment. Got a few small things that are wrong (Pheasant feathers on the Pawnee), but I think the original story was based on the Comanche. Fun to watch tho. Don Keas LODGEPOLE wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-11 12:38:45 EDT, Iron Burner wrote: > ><< For what it's worth (absolutely nothing), I agree. Just the buffalo > hunt is worth the price of admission. But in at least one instance, I > don't know why they thought they had to compromise authenticity for a > "better" story line. For example, the boy who was injured while trying > to steal Dances With Wolves horse, said he was afraid that his father > would beat him when he found out. From what I have read, this is not > the way the Lakota treated their offspring, particularly boys. >> > > Well, I am no expert on these things. It may have been an "Authors Mistake" >in the book or something that was overlooked when the movie was made and the >Indian Tribe was changed to Lakota from the original tribe in the book. I am >not sure what the tribe was as I never did get around to reading it. But the >tribe was changed to Lakota for the movie as there aren't many members of the >tribe in the book around today and there were plenty of Lakota to be found to >make the movie. At any rate that was the story told on one of those "making >of the Movie" shows I saw on the tube. > > Longshot > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id AFA115230148; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:45:21 MST >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yOPf0-0005GU-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:31:14 -0600 >Received: from (xmission.xmission.com) [198.60.22.2] (drudy) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yOPey-0005GI-00; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:31:12 -0600 >Received: (from drudy@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id >KAA26358 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:31:07 - -0600 (MDT) >Received: from (imo15.mx.aol.com) [198.81.17.37] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yOFaq-0006d1-00; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:46:16 -0600 >Received: from LODGEPOLE@aol.com > by imo15.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id ICJMa02806 > for ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:44:59 -0500 (EDT) >From: LODGEPOLE >Message-ID: <8134ec63.353054dd@aol.com> >Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 01:44:59 EDT >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891662856 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:50:52 -0600 From: bob----debie Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events EmmaPeel2 wrote: > > Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? Went to an > event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one was > there. Moon of Crow. Apr. 17-19. North of Silver City. N.M. Hands @ 505-535-4316 Powder Horn Clan. North of Flagstaff, AZ. 23-26. Winterheart @ 520-772-1566 May 1-3 NMLRA Nationals. Roy, Utah. Glenn @ 801-776-2009 May 15-17 Gloretta, N.M. May 23-25 CSMLA shoot, Florence, Co. Joy @ 719-598-5715 29-31 Taos Free Trappers. N.M. Grey Wolf @ 505-753-8440 July NRA Santa Fe. raton. N.M. Melvin @ 505-445-9637 Wolf Creek Pagosa Springs, Co. Bob @ 303-264-5154 Need to confirm this one. Bob G ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:37:07 -0400 From: Robert Schnebel Subject: MtMan-List: Uses of deerhair today Until WWII, deerhair was commonly found in life-preservers. With the use of Kapok, deerhair was discontinued for that purpose. Deerhair is now used for 1- Hockey players pads, 2- Amish farmers horse collars, and 3- fishing flies. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:49:21 +0000 From: nospammkatona@pdx.oneworld.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events let's hear it for Moon of the Crow...........waugh! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:43:01 -0600 From: cwebbbpdr@juno.com (Charlie P. Webb) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events Howdy, The Colorado Springs Muzzle Loaders Inc. will be hosting our 24th Annual Memorial Day Shoot and Rendezvous May 23, 24, 25, 1998 at the Florence Mountain Park just a few miles South of Florence, Colorado. Our event is the largest muzzle loading shoot in Colorado, actually more of a shoot then a rendezvous, but we do have primitive camping, modern tin tipi's camp, a primitive range, hunters walk, (not a survival walk) as well as the NMLRA paper target range. We have a shotgun range, will have Mtn. Man Run, Mtn. Mama Run, kids games, hawk and knife range, primitive attire judging, and much more good times. If you are interested and need more information, contact me off list with your snail mail address and I will send you all the information we have. I guarantee if you show up on the proper dates, we'll be there to greet ya! We encourage folks to dress pre 1840, but no one will be turned away because of "T"shirts and ball caps. We are not an re-enactment event, just a bunch of folks putting on a fun thing for patched round ball muzzle loaders. Respectfully, C Webb CC CO. On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:31:55 EDT EmmaPeel2 writes: >Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? >Went to an >event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one >was >there. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 23:38:49 EDT From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dances With Wolves The tribe that was mentioned in the book are Comanches or Kiowas but I think it's Comanche. They are still around but not romanticaized like the Lakotas are. Comanches basically are more war like than the Lakotas in some ways. The frontier didn't advance in Texas while the Comanches and Kiowas lived and ruled the land but after they were relocated to the reservations the frontier advanced very fast and rapidly. Now days Comanches and Kiowas are mostly mixed bloods....not easy to find any fullbloods anymore. I heard from one Kiowa at a powwow that fullbloods of all the nations of North America would fit into a full sized plane (457 or something like that). The biggest Indian nation with the biggest group of mixed bloods are the Tsalagi (Cherokees) because they allow anyone who can vertify that a family member in their lineage was a Cherokee to be a member of their nation. Ted _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:02:36 -0700 From: Marlis Simms Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Memorial Day weekend events At 08:50 AM 4/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >EmmaPeel2 wrote: >> >> Anything going on it the Southwest? Like..New Mexico or Colorado? Went to an >> event last week, was supposed to be from 8-5. We arrived at 2, no one was >> there. > > >Moon of Crow. Apr. 17-19. North of Silver City. N.M. >Hands @ 505-535-4316(Great Rendezvous, have been down there for the past three years). > >Powder Horn Clan. North of Flagstaff, AZ. 23-26. Winterheart @ >520-772-1566 > >May 1-3 NMLRA Nationals. Roy, Utah. Glenn @ 801-776-2009(I'm not sure about this one, is this the NMLRA Pacific Rendezvous to be held in St. George, Utah and for just three days????) > >May 15-17 Gloretta, N.M.(We live in Glorieta, we are not familiar with this rendezvous, could you be talking about the Civil War re-enactment of the Battle of Glorieta? This is held at Rancho de las Golondrinas, 12 miles south of Santa Fe) > >May 23-25 CSMLA shoot, Florence, Co. Joy @ 719-598-5715 > >29-31 Taos Free Trappers. N.M. Grey Wolf @ 505-753-8440 (We have heard unfavorable comments concerning this rendezvous.) > >July >NRA Santa Fe. raton. N.M. Melvin @ 505-445-9637(The Santa Fe Trails Rendezvous is the second week of June, not July.) You might contact the NRA Whittington Center in Raton for more information and contact persons on this one, or contact David LeMond @ (505) 281-4881 >Wolf Creek Pagosa Springs, Co. Bob @ 303-264-5154 Need to confirm >this one.(Not sure about this one, went a couple of years ago, quite a nice place. Can't say who is in charge, but if you call the Pagosa Springs Chamber of Commerce they should have all the information. There is a new one coming up the end of July (31st) to August 9 in beautiful Chama, New Mexico. It is a tradefair, sponsored by the hotels in Chama and the Cumbres Toltec Railroad. Big Horn Tent City, contact 719-587-9077. Will be setting up at the railraod site in Chama. Check Smoke & Fire News for more information on places, dates and times of all kinds of events. >Marlis > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:21:41 -0500 From: "Scott Allen" Subject: MtMan-List: Needs a Ride to Market Fair Hello the list(s) A good friend of mine is in dire need of a ride (share driving duties and expenses) from the Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota are to the Fort Frederick Market Fair next week. The fellas he originally was coming with backed out at the last minute. He could drive a little to meet you if neccessary. I know it's a longshot, but if anyone is coming this way and have room, he sure could use the help. Contact me via email or Jim Newman at newma030@tc.umn.edu, phone 612-546-6994. Thanks much. Your most humble servant, Scott Allen Hunter and Scout for Fort Frederick Fairplay, MD http://members.tripod.com/~SCOTT ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:03:00 EDT From: EmmaPeel2 Subject: MtMan-List: Thank you! Clearly enough summer activities to keep my family running around! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:20:58 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver.. Dumb question department. How did the mountain men attach their beaver skins to the circular willow rack without damaging the skins? How long would the skins have remained on the rack. I may try to do this but with already tanned skins. I will use the skin and rack as a prop for my living history gig in the museum. Thanks to all by the way for the referral to Moscow Fur! Gail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:34:59 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Jeremiah Johnson >Jim Lindberg wrote: >> >> Goto http://movie.reel.com/moviepage/647.html >> >> Shows Jeremiah Johnson can be had for: >> >> New Used Laserdisc DVD Widescreen >> --- ---- --------- --- ---------- >> $12.74 $6.99 $29.73 $17.49 $16.98 >> >> Jeremiah Johnson can also be obtained from Critic's Choice Video, for >>$10.77, at 800-367-7765. I just recieved their catalog in the mail. > >Why did the movie makers feel the need to change John Johnston's name to >Jeremiah Johnson? > >Ken C Since the story was fictionalized, it was best to change the names of major characters. That way no one can say "John Johnston didn't really do that" because it isn't about the real John Johnston, but the fictional Jerimiah Johnson. J. J. as a character is a composite of several historical figures. The film was loosely based on the life of Johnston as well as others, but by and large it's is pure historical fiction. Good movie, but fiction none the less. Cheers, HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #52 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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