From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #76 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, May 31 1998 Volume 01 : Number 076 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:10:35 -0500 From: "Ken " Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye Thanks, my mistake. Sorry Henry! Ken - ---------- > From: Joe Brandl > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye > Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 5:58 PM > > Ken, > the note was from Me not Henry > Joe > > Absaroka Western Designs and Tannery ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:18:50 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye At 03:20 PM 5/27/98 Henry wrote: >I'm looking for a good way to dye horsehair, Native and/or modern.=A0 Any >suggestions? > >TIA, > >HBC > =93To Dye or Color Horse-Hair Steep in water wherein a small quantity of turpentine has been boiled for= the space of two hours; then, having prepared the colors very hot, boil the hair therein, and any color, black excepted, will take, but that will only take a dark-red or dark-blue, etc.=94 from MacKenzie, 1825 Red is made from powdered Brazil-wood, vermilion or anatto; blue from= Indigo; purple from vermilion and spalt; green verdigris and verditer. These were used with alum, vinegar, mordants, gum water and more. I have a great many receipts for dyeing, coloring and staining. I don't have enough time to ferret them all out and transcribe. Some good information on dyeing is available in Elijah Bemiss=92, 1806,= Dyer=92s Companion, reprinted by Dover, ISBN 0-486-20601-7, $6.50 printed on the back cover of my copy. Coal-tar colors are a post industrial revolution period. Our focus is pre-industrial revolution. They could be used in the same manner as listed above. Kool-Aid, Rit, et al,??????? REALLY NOW! It may be OK for Hollywood and fantasmagorical transmogrifications. But Mountain Men? John Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:39:48 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows In a message dated 98-05-28 12:46:10 EDT, you write: << Dennis >> in reply to your coment when the spanarde came it was nnear modern times i beleave the atlata was an ancient tool. used befor the bow and arrow maby there were a few around. in the far north on the ice cap by escamos-spelling they were more stone age typ tool. i think i willingly stand corected if not so. iron tounge ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:46:33 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder In a message dated 98-05-28 16:56:56 EDT, you write: << Addison Miller >> if you cook them you kill the bug iron tounge ------------------------------ Date: 26 May 98 20:18:42 +0000 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, ,would like some feedb Yes, they used to have a voo in September at Bent's. Then they did some changes and one of them wqas no shooting. Thios from the big boys in DC. After the changes which were hard to swallow by most, the rendezvous was dropped. Now it is just living history events. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS --- PROPRIETORS OF THE NADA TRADING COMPANY LODGEPOLE wrote: >In a message dated 98-05-26 20:16:56 EDT, you write: > ><< > Was at Bent's Fort a couple years ago and had a discussion about >whether or > > not they had any rendezvous there. > > That is strange...I remember some big events in the early fall at Bents Fort. > What ever happened to those. They started around 1980. > > Linda Holley >> > > > Dunno Linda, just know what they told me when I was there. > > Longshot > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com > (SMTPD32-4.03) id A92EE80144; Tue, 26 May 1998 20:23:42 MDT >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yeVNN-0007eA-00; Tue, 26 May 1998 19:51:33 -0600 >Received: from (imo13.mx.aol.com) [198.81.17.35] > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) > id 0yeUzN-0006EK-00; Tue, 26 May 1998 19:26:45 -0600 >Received: from LODGEPOLE@aol.com > by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id ICALa29777 > for ; Tue, 26 May 1998 21:20:20 +2000 (EDT) >From: LODGEPOLE >Message-ID: <670f9244.356b6a55@aol.com> >Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:20:20 EDT >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Just tossing out an idea, would like some feedback >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 62 >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 891663536 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:46:36 -0500 From: "Michael Branson" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thanks! :) I have never personally seen the spirit of the man who keeps walking up the stairs from the dining room down below but the spirit has been seen at least thrice that I know of by several people at three different times. The description of the spirit is always of a man dressed in a black suit with a white shirt and black tie. He walks up the stairs and disappears. M. Branson - -----Original Message----- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 9:00 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Thanks! :) >Yes, well, looks like I will have to talk to the folks in Washington REAL nice >:) >Thanks ,all the input received was very useful. As to St. Vrain's room being >haunted...wow, by whom? Thought the poor man died a happy camper in Mora (one >too many cigars)..although brother Marcellin did committed suicide, but he is >buried way back in Ralls County Missouri... > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 03:59:11 -0500 From: Jeff Powers Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows Ken I use storebought broadheads on my darts On 1998-05-28 hist_text@lists.xmission.com said to kestrel@ticon.net >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Priority: 3 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Status: >I don't know if this is historically correct or not but my atlatl >tips I used were larger than the points I made for my arrows. I >made mine of steel or stone or antler and made them longer and >usually 3/4 of an inch wide at the base. This seems to have given >me more cutting surface, which I consider the most important part. >I do know that the atlatl preceded the bow by centuries. Perhaps >one of our more learned members might have reference material on >this? YMOS, >ken YellowFeather >---------- >> Date: Thursday, May 28, 1998 9:43 AM >> Michael Pierce wrote: >> > >> > dont believe the statement about the arrow points and atlatal >>points > being the same size is totally correct. >> I guess what I'm getting at is whether or not the Indians were >>using bows during the pre Columbian times. Were they using >>strictly spears and atlatls? Were bows introduced with the >>Spanish Conquistadors like the horse? If anyone knows of a >>reference on the subject, I would appreciate it. >> Dennis Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:03:53 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows In a message dated 98-05-28 16:58:34 EDT, you write: << HAWKNEST4@JUNO.COM. >> do you know anthing about green willow tea or was some one was just pullin my leg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 08:44:15 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horsehair dye >Don't know if it would work on horse hair, but I suspect it would. The kids >at my school dye their hair with kool aid. They get really "interesting?" >reds and greens. > >Red Hawk I thought about food coloring and drink mixes, but they could be too easily diluted with water, which means they are no good in wet weather. That's only theoretical. If anyone has ever had good LONG TERM results, let me know. TIA HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:06:04 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: News flash The vermilion thief was finally apprehended this morning. They caught him red handed. :-) Hears-The-Quiet ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:43:44 -0400 From: seanbear Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder Not if you dry the mixture in the sun, it doesn't. Also, a temperature of at least 140 must be reached and maintained for 10 mins to kill salmonella... Or, the food must be washed in a 10% clorox solution... eggs (in the shells), veggies, etc... A dehydrator and "sun" does not reach these temps... - -----Original Message----- From: ITWHEELER@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:31 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder >In a message dated 98-05-28 16:56:56 EDT, you write: > ><< Addison Miller >> >if you cook them you kill the bug iron tounge > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 14:40:27 -0400 From: "Mill, Kirk" Subject: MtMan-List: buckskinning Hi, My name is Kirk Mill and I am looking for a buckskinning group in the SE Pennsylvania area. If you know of one, please give me a holler. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 20:01:01 -0500 From: Glenn Darilek Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Bow and Arrows Ken wrote: > > I am afraid I will have to disagree with you both on "force". Maybe it is just semantics, but it IS the increased force that makes the atl-atl work. Otherwise you could throw the projectile with your arm only, which would be more accurate. I must commend you on your atl-atl skill. Hitting any game animal with any reliability at all at 25 yards is a truly amazing feat! Iron Burner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 98 15:36:00 -0500 From: bruce.mcneal@ssa.gov Subject: RE: MtMan-List: buckskinning Hey Kirk, Try the Lancaster Co. Longrifles. Contact Chuck & Jenny Eby at: They have a nice club site and a great annual rendezvous. Good folk. Tell them I said to take care of you. Yr Humbl & Obednt Servnt, Bruce McNeal - -----Original Message----- From: at ##internet Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 2:40 PM To: history mailing list at ##Internet Subject: MtMan-List: buckskinning Hi, My name is Kirk Mill and I am looking for a buckskinning group in the SE Pennsylvania area. If you know of one, please give me a holler. << File: RFC822.TXT >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 16:17:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders 18th Annual Rendezvous (Idaho) Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders 18th Annual Rendezvous When: June 19-21 Where: 2 miles west of Troy, Idaho. Details: Events; 30 foot dugout canoes on display, trailwalk - Men, Women's and Juniors, Trapper's Run, Pistol Shoot, Kids Shhot - 12 and under, Stupid Conglomerated Shoot. Prizes awarded for the best dressed Male and Female and most primitive camp. Raffle for .54 cal Lyman Plains Rifle, 8 seats on a dugout canoe ride. Fees: Family $20, Couples $15, Individual $10, Non-shooters camp $10, Traders free with donation. More Info? Tom Fleming (208)882-8636, Vern Illi (208) 835-5872, Chris Lewis (208)835-8272 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:19:51 EDT From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re Sign Language Actually half of ASL is derived from French Sign Language! Laurent Clerc travelled all the way from France to be one of the first deaf teachers before the "pro-deaf" movement was cut off by "pro-oral (speaking with lips and voice not hands)" hearing people. He taught what he knew and at the time alot of the signs had to be made up like the sign for president is symbolic of the tri horn hat the president used to wear at that time and that sign is still used today. If you go to France you'll understand half of the signs but you can learn faster becuase you already know half :) An interesting discussion going on here as I've heard frequently that American Indians could and would communicate with deaf people in the past more easily than non-Indians. I also have noticed some apparent similiar signs and am presently considering whether there's a good study/research subject in there somewhere. Ted _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:19:51 EDT From: tedhart@juno.com (Ted A Hart) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Indian Sign Language Uhhh...not to be rude or nothing but the word deaf mute is quite degrading to a deaf person becuase there aren't any such deaf mutes. We can use our voices but most deaf people can just use their voices to yell, scream, moan or whatnot but most of them can talk some but not too well while some cannot. That is an old old term that was used in the past and not so anymore nowdays. It's perfectly alright to call a deaf person deaf but also be careful becuase there are some deaf people who have become deaf thru accidents etc and deny that they are deaf. I had my head nearly bitten off by a woman who DEINED that she was deaf when she was wearing two hearing aids! I've also seen some deaf people who use "cued speech" an invented sign system by lazy hearing people (only 8 signs used with speech) who screamed and ran away from my friends and I at the mall when we greeted them in the mall! They were the ones looking stupid. Ted _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 00:24:21 EDT From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder my dehydrator does. you still cook it you kill it. i mite come out like rubber thuogh. oron tounge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 06:06:03 -0700 From: j2hearts@juno.com (john c funk,jr) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Egg Powder Paul, Why make it, other than for historical gratification (perhaps), when you can buy it from most backeries, store, etc.? John Funk _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) From: zaslow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Davenport Rifle (Thanks) Just wanted to thank everyone who replied back and gave me information on the Davenport Rifle. I will pass it on to my sister so she can give it to her friend. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:08:11 -0700 (PDT) From: zaslow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re Sign Language Pat is absolutely right. I know ISL and enough ASL to get by and, with the exception of a few signs which are the same, they are almost completely unrelated. In fact, in deaf sign language there are ASL (American Sign Language), SSL (Spanish Sign Language), JSL (Japanese Sign Language), FSL (French Sign Language), etc. All are different. I believe in ISL there are different dialects depending on the tribe and region of the country. I know quite a bit about the topic because my wife is hearing impared and she got her degree in deaf studies. We also have a lot of deaf friends. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 ________________________________________________________________________________ At 11:32 AM 5/28/98 -0700, you wrote: > Re Sign Language >As many know, one of the requirements for membership in the AMM is to learn at >least 50 words of Indian Sign Language. After a slow start, I made real progress >with a friend during a several day outing, and found the signs coming pretty quickly, >although they fade of course without practice. HOWEVER, imagine my >disappointment to find that this sign language has almost nothing to do with ASL >(American Sign Language for the deaf). Big disappointment! I hoped I was at >least laying a foundation for a communication skill which might be useful in >modern life. According to my friend, when ASL was designed around the turn of >the century, Indian culture was in low repute and a deliberate attempt was made >to avoid using their signs. DRAT! >Pat Quilter > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 20:21:36 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tobacco... To all: This got lost in never never land. Has any one ever tried this manzanita with tobacco mixture? Gail (learning to play a MM in living history) ============== - -- >I have read that the mountain men used kinnikinnick, which I believe is a >low ground cover type of manzanita, as a mixture with tobacco. How did they >prepare the kinnikinnick, did they use the leaves, green or dried. Any idea >what the proportion was? And was it always used in pipes or did the mountain >men roll their own in paper or leaves. > >Gail > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #76 ****************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.