From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1048 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, June 21 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1048 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: sparkless frizzen -       MtMan-List: my Jaeger rifle -       MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: sparkless frizzen -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? -       Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:55:47 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: sparkless frizzen Gray Bear Sounds like you might have one of the well-known 'Tower' pistol. Boatloads of these were imported and sold, many by Dixie. The frizzens were never good. And by smoothing down yours you, no doubt, removed what face hardening might have been there. Not a big deal. You need to (or have done) reharden the frizzen face. I recenlty did one with Hawk's method. If I describe it wrong, I'm sure Hawk will jump in with a correction. First, get the face smooth. Hold the frizzen face up by the screw lug, using a vice just tight enough to hold it. Place a can or pot of water directly underneath. Use an oil like motor oil and spread on the frizzen face. Then sprinkle a good coating of Kasenit on that. You can get it from Brownell's or you local gun shop. (a $20 can will last a couple lifetimes) Using a good torch (propane, mapp, acetelyne) heat from below until the whole frizzen face glows almost white. Then QUICKLY release the vice so the frizzen falls into the water while still glowing hot. You will hear a loud pop. Let cool, remove and clean. Use. Will spark fine. Another way, without Kasenit, that might or might not work. Is to hold the frizzen by the lug with long nosed pliers in one hand. Use the torch on the face until it is almost white glowing hot, then plunge into a can of motor oil and swirl around until cooled. (do outside, makes stinky smoke. unless you are single, then it is ok to do in living room :-) ) Depending on steel in frizzen, it might be ok with that, if not you wasted your time. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:00:31 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: my Jaeger rifle Concho said, Chonco I'm surprised at me too. There were more faults with that rifle than Hawk listed. I dubbed it the "disaster Jager". Nothing, and I mean nothing was right with it. Another surprise. I am an experienced ml shooter and know a good rifle from bad. I looked at and handled several others this guy built before giving him the go-ahead (and money). The others looked fine. They did not hold perfectly true to historical lines but were otherwise, apparently, OK. I guess, two things contributed to my not feeding this thing to him from the back end. I am getting older and more temperate in my treatment of fellow man than in younger years. Also, I concluded that this guy was not trying to cheat me, he is simply stupider than a stump. Talk would not have changed anything. He probably did his best. Which was crap. I cried a lot but never really got angry. I have built a few rifles but nowhere near do I consider myself a builder. I know what to do but cannot translate that into what happens with my hands. That is a talent I do not possess. However, in my clutziness I could have done much better than the original 'builder'. Oh, well. Life goes on. What Hawk did is beautiful. The new Jaeger is a work of art. We used only the barrel, triggers and furniture for the new one. All else, lock, wood, sights, inlays and, of course the talent and artistry, is all new. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:16:16 -0400 (EDT) From: HuntingRidge@webtv.net (Hunting Ridge) Subject: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! Your Obedient Servant As Ever, M.A.Smith Esq. Colony of Maryland Hunting Ridge - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:55:37 -0700 From: "Daniel L. "Concho" Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: sparkless frizzen Hey Frank, He needs a frizzen shoe like Russ Hamns use to offer until someone complained that they glowed at night, Oh well. They would sure throw some sparks. Since then, we have used a piece of wide hacksaw blade and sweat it on the face of the bad frizzen, like Hamns material was installed, works pretty good, but doesn't have that pretty glow. Concho [HRD] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Historical Research & Development "ANISCHIK"(is how the Moravians saw it) THANK YOU. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Double Edge forge http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 Buck's Base Camp: http://buckconner.tripod.com/ Historical Research & Development: http://hrd7.tripod.com/ See the AMM site for more supporters of this event. - ----------------------- On Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:55:47 Frank Fusco wrote: >Gray Bear > Sounds like you might have one of the well-known 'Tower' pistol. >Boatloads of these were imported and sold, many by Dixie. The frizzens were >never good. > And by smoothing down yours you, no doubt, removed what face hardening >might have been there. Not a big deal. > You need to (or have done) reharden the frizzen face. I recenlty did one >with Hawk's method. If I describe it wrong, I'm sure Hawk will jump in with >a correction. > First, get the face smooth. > Hold the frizzen face up by the screw lug, using a vice just tight >enough to hold it. Place a can or pot of water directly underneath. > Use an oil like motor oil and spread on the frizzen face. Then sprinkle >a good coating of Kasenit on that. You can get it from Brownell's or you >local gun shop. (a $20 can will last a couple lifetimes) > Using a good torch (propane, mapp, acetelyne) heat from below until the >whole frizzen face glows almost white. > Then QUICKLY release the vice so the frizzen falls into the water while >still glowing hot. You will hear a loud pop. Let cool, remove and clean. >Use. Will spark fine. > Another way, without Kasenit, that might or might not work. Is to hold >the frizzen by the lug with long nosed pliers in one hand. Use the torch on >the face until it is almost white glowing hot, then plunge into a can of >motor oil and swirl around until cooled. (do outside, makes stinky smoke. >unless you are single, then it is ok to do in living room :-) ) Depending >on steel in frizzen, it might be ok with that, if not you wasted your time. >Frank G. Fusco >Mountain Home, Arkansas >http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > _________________________________________ Communicate with others using Lycos Mail for FREE! http://mail.lycos.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:43:10 -0500 From: "Lanney Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Squire Smith wrote: Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! Your Obedient Servant As Ever, M.A.Smith Esq. Colony of Maryland Hunting Ridge I went to Google.....the best search engine I know of... and entered a search for "1702 map" and got several hits that might help you. Give it a try. Lanney Ratcliff Republic of Texas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:10:17 -0400 (EDT) From: HuntingRidge@webtv.net (Hunting Ridge) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? - --WebTV-Mail-26626-687 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Now why didn't I think of that!!!!!! Huzah For Texas!!!! M.A.Smith Esq. - --WebTV-Mail-26626-687 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2214.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.144) by storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by smtpin-2214.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id D26ECFE21; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LCWk-0000p5-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:43:50 -0600 Received: from [209.225.8.15] (helo=mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LCWh-0000ou-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:43:48 -0600 Received: from [66.190.69.70] (HELO lanneyratcliff) by mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 11914629 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:43:44 -0400 Message-ID: <005201c218bc$9eb25200$4645be42@ftwrth.tx.charter.com> From: "Lanney Ratcliff" To: References: <16527-3D125430-2038@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:43:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Squire Smith wrote: Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! Your Obedient Servant As Ever, M.A.Smith Esq. Colony of Maryland Hunting Ridge I went to Google.....the best search engine I know of... and entered a search for "1702 map" and got several hits that might help you. Give it a try. Lanney Ratcliff Republic of Texas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --WebTV-Mail-26626-687-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:20:01 EDT From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? - --part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/02 6:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HuntingRidge@webtv.net writes: > Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the > Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! > > Your Obedient Servant As Ever, > M.A.Smith Esq. > Colony of Maryland > Hunting Ridge > Depends on where you are. In NY (New Amsterdam) it was Albany Hudson Valley any where west was 5 Nations territory. If you were French it was west of Montreal. If you lived in Philly it was a little east of present day Ft Frederic. If you were Russian it was east of Sitka. So it is all a matter of were you were but in the eastern north america it was east of the Appillahian Mts. (Bad spelling) Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes - --part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/02 6:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HuntingRidge@webtv.net writes:


Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the
Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks !
                  
Your Obedient Servant As Ever,
                                               M.A.Smith Esq.
                                           Colony of Maryland
                                                Hunting Ridge


Depends on where you are.  In NY (New Amsterdam) it was Albany Hudson Valley any where west was 5 Nations territory.  If you were French it was west of Montreal.  If you lived in Philly it was a little east of present day Ft Frederic. If you were Russian it was east of Sitka.

So it is all a matter of were you were but in the eastern north america it was east of the Appillahian Mts. (Bad spelling)

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes - --part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:28:26 -0400 (EDT) From: HuntingRidge@webtv.net (Hunting Ridge) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? - --WebTV-Mail-27256-1217 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Thanks! And remember in the 18th and 19th cen. there was no bad spelling just "your spelling"!!! At Your Service, M. - --WebTV-Mail-27256-1217 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2115.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.125) by storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by smtpin-2115.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id D9713FE3B; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LD5v-0001YE-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:20:11 -0600 Received: from [64.12.136.162] (helo=imo-m07.mx.aol.com) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LD5t-0001Y1-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:20:09 -0600 Received: from CTOAKES@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.21.) id f.1aa.3fa25b3 (18711) for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:20:02 -0400 (EDT) From: CTOAKES@aol.com Message-ID: <1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941@aol.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:20:01 EDT Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10572 Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com - --part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/02 6:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HuntingRidge@webtv.net writes: > Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the > Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! > > Your Obedient Servant As Ever, > M.A.Smith Esq. > Colony of Maryland > Hunting Ridge > Depends on where you are. In NY (New Amsterdam) it was Albany Hudson Valley any where west was 5 Nations territory. If you were French it was west of Montreal. If you lived in Philly it was a little east of present day Ft Frederic. If you were Russian it was east of Sitka. So it is all a matter of were you were but in the eastern north america it was east of the Appillahian Mts. (Bad spelling) Y.M.O.S. C.T. Oakes - --part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/20/02 6:18:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HuntingRidge@webtv.net writes:


Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the
Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks !
                  
Your Obedient Servant As Ever,
                                               M.A.Smith Esq.
                                           Colony of Maryland
                                                Hunting Ridge


Depends on where you are.  In NY (New Amsterdam) it was Albany Hudson Valley any where west was 5 Nations territory.  If you were French it was west of Montreal.  If you lived in Philly it was a little east of present day Ft Frederic. If you were Russian it was east of Sitka.

So it is all a matter of were you were but in the eastern north america it was east of the Appillahian Mts. (Bad spelling)

Y.M.O.S.

C.T. Oakes - --part1_1aa.3fa25b3.2a43d941_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --WebTV-Mail-27256-1217-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:54:53 -0600 From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Dear Squire Smith, The concept of a "frontier line" (demarcating the area where population density exceeded 2 persons per square mile from those area where population density was less) did not come into the American lexicon until after the first federal census in 1790. A century later, in 1890, the Census declared the frontier "ended" as it was no longer possible to draw a continuous line on the map that separated "settled" (2 persons/sq. mi or more) from "unsettled" territory. So determining its location in 1702 is impossible. However, if you have access to colonial population records, you could do a rough estimate, colony by colony. Never been done, as far as I know. Respectfully, John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hunting Ridge" To: Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 4:16 PM Subject: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? > Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the > Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! > > Your Obedient Servant As Ever, > M.A.Smith Esq. > Colony of Maryland > Hunting Ridge > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:34:06 -0400 From: "WindWalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Part of our ancestors were in the populated area in NJ {Morristown area} in said time frame From our genealogy files, it appears the Port areas were the centers of population due to "landings" Prior 1639 our ancestors in part were in MA region. Excellent research that Ive found is Library of Congress online. Gives comeplete demographic info for colonial era and puritan. The river routes were the boundarys for the most part.. as no roads. Maps of 1700 era are on Library Congress site. also Library of Virginia has land holdings for diffrent areas for that time frame for diffrent states. Our family is heavily researched from one side as landing was 1639. from England and thus moved to Milford CT and helped start town They inter mingled with Native americans and moved up down coast following trade. Library of Congress, maps section shows the trade routes and the centers of populace in any given time frame. The accepted line of thought for frontier at that time was anything west= of AP mountains though voyages, went into the wilderness..at times. Ours went to NC and via= Pound Gap to Ky. folllowing the "forts" and trading stores. Our line moved to VA prior to Indian War, fougnt in it,{both sides} and in= Rev war{colonial scouts} and two well know captains.. afterwars land= grants were given in Ky.. And Mary Polly Boone {Squire Boones Daughter} is in our= line Our family prior to all this stayed on the extreme reaches of civil= settlements , and married so many times back and forth to Native Local Tribes.In Boonesburo, more= marriages to local Shawnee..then another move west of the Mississippi and more marriages to= the Osage Ive spent countless hours researching our family in diffrent states pre= colonial.. So I have somewhat a grasp of population centers around the= 1700 era In short Id say any thing west of AP mountain range is the extreme= bourders. I hope you do go to Library of Congress Online.. A wealth of research info= is there per your request Windwalker *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/20/02 at 9:54 PM John L. Allen wrote: >Dear Squire Smith, > >The concept of a "frontier line" (demarcating the area where population >density exceeded 2 persons per square mile from those area where= population >density was less) did not come into the American lexicon until after the >first federal census in 1790. A century later, in 1890, the Census= declared >the frontier "ended" as it was no longer possible to draw a continuous= line >on the map that separated "settled" (2 persons/sq. mi or more) from >"unsettled" territory. > >So determining its location in 1702 is impossible. However, if you have >access to colonial population records, you could do a rough estimate, >colony >by colony. Never been done, as far as I know. > >Respectfully, > >John > >Dr. John L. Allen >2703 Leslie Court >Laramie, WY 82072-2979 >Phone: (307) 742-0883 >Fax: (307) 742-0886 >e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hunting Ridge" >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 4:16 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? > > >> Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the >> Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! >> >> Your Obedient Servant As Ever, >> M.A.Smith Esq. >> Colony of Maryland >> Hunting Ridge >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:47:28 -0400 (EDT) From: HuntingRidge@webtv.net (Hunting Ridge) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? - --WebTV-Mail-23572-638 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit That is very interesting Dr. Allen,was the word or idea of the Frontier alien to them or might they refer to it as an area outside of there ken if not as a definite boundary or line? I Remain, M.A.Smith Esquire - --WebTV-Mail-23572-638 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2101.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.111) by storefull-2315.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:01:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by smtpin-2101.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id B6F3AFE19; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:01:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LFZv-000430-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:59:19 -0600 Received: from [207.46.181.84] (helo=cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LFZt-00042v-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:59:17 -0600 Received: from 2rwy301 ([63.228.234.200]) by cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4905); Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:58:27 -0700 Message-ID: <005c01c218d7$880ec5e0$c8eae43f@2rwy301> From: "John L. Allen" To: References: <16527-3D125430-2038@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:54:53 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2002 03:58:27.0770 (UTC) FILETIME=[E62031A0:01C218D7] Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Dear Squire Smith, The concept of a "frontier line" (demarcating the area where population density exceeded 2 persons per square mile from those area where population density was less) did not come into the American lexicon until after the first federal census in 1790. A century later, in 1890, the Census declared the frontier "ended" as it was no longer possible to draw a continuous line on the map that separated "settled" (2 persons/sq. mi or more) from "unsettled" territory. So determining its location in 1702 is impossible. However, if you have access to colonial population records, you could do a rough estimate, colony by colony. Never been done, as far as I know. Respectfully, John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hunting Ridge" To: Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 4:16 PM Subject: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? > Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the > Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! > > Your Obedient Servant As Ever, > M.A.Smith Esq. > Colony of Maryland > Hunting Ridge > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --WebTV-Mail-23572-638-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:56:11 -0400 (EDT) From: HuntingRidge@webtv.net (Hunting Ridge) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? - --WebTV-Mail-23851-1103 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Wind Walker, I have in my family tree one Richard Mount showing up in Middle Town NJ. in 1695 ! Neighbors perhaps? M. - --WebTV-Mail-23851-1103 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2208.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.138) by storefull-2311.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by smtpin-2208.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id D3ED3FE4B; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LG6a-0004SI-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:33:04 -0600 Received: from [209.61.183.86] (helo=www.fastmail.fm) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LG6Y-0004SD-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:33:02 -0600 Received: from www.fastmail.fm (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCCDD6D9A0 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:32:52 -0500 (CDT) X-Epoch: 1024633972 X-Sasl-enc: XPOlzA3YRMtwaoe3+DcYIQ Received: from l6c4g8 (1Cust242.tnt2.ladue.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.174.242]) by www.fastmail.fm (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40B66D9F3 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2002 23:32:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200206210034060190.02360A29@fastmail.fm> In-Reply-To: <005c01c218d7$880ec5e0$c8eae43f@2rwy301> References: <16527-3D125430-2038@storefull-2318.public.lawson.webtv.net> <005c01c218d7$880ec5e0$c8eae43f@2rwy301> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.30.00.00 (3) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 00:34:06 -0400 From: "WindWalker" To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Part of our ancestors were in the populated area in NJ {Morristown area} in said time frame From our genealogy files, it appears the Port areas were the centers of population due to "landings" Prior 1639 our ancestors in part were in MA region. Excellent research that Ive found is Library of Congress online. Gives comeplete demographic info for colonial era and puritan. The river routes were the boundarys for the most part.. as no roads. Maps of 1700 era are on Library Congress site. also Library of Virginia has land holdings for diffrent areas for that time frame for diffrent states. Our family is heavily researched from one side as landing was 1639. from England and thus moved to Milford CT and helped start town They inter mingled with Native americans and moved up down coast following trade. Library of Congress, maps section shows the trade routes and the centers of populace in any given time frame. The accepted line of thought for frontier at that time was anything west= of AP mountains though voyages, went into the wilderness..at times. Ours went to NC and via= Pound Gap to Ky. folllowing the "forts" and trading stores. Our line moved to VA prior to Indian War, fougnt in it,{both sides} and in= Rev war{colonial scouts} and two well know captains.. afterwars land= grants were given in Ky.. And Mary Polly Boone {Squire Boones Daughter} is in our= line Our family prior to all this stayed on the extreme reaches of civil= settlements , and married so many times back and forth to Native Local Tribes.In Boonesburo, more= marriages to local Shawnee..then another move west of the Mississippi and more marriages to= the Osage Ive spent countless hours researching our family in diffrent states pre= colonial.. So I have somewhat a grasp of population centers around the= 1700 era In short Id say any thing west of AP mountain range is the extreme= bourders. I hope you do go to Library of Congress Online.. A wealth of research info= is there per your request Windwalker *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/20/02 at 9:54 PM John L. Allen wrote: >Dear Squire Smith, > >The concept of a "frontier line" (demarcating the area where population >density exceeded 2 persons per square mile from those area where= population >density was less) did not come into the American lexicon until after the >first federal census in 1790. A century later, in 1890, the Census= declared >the frontier "ended" as it was no longer possible to draw a continuous= line >on the map that separated "settled" (2 persons/sq. mi or more) from >"unsettled" territory. > >So determining its location in 1702 is impossible. However, if you have >access to colonial population records, you could do a rough estimate, >colony >by colony. Never been done, as far as I know. > >Respectfully, > >John > >Dr. John L. Allen >2703 Leslie Court >Laramie, WY 82072-2979 >Phone: (307) 742-0883 >Fax: (307) 742-0886 >e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hunting Ridge" >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 4:16 PM >Subject: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? > > >> Good Evening to all! I was wondering if anyone out there knows where the >> Frontier line was drawn in 1702 ? Thanks ! >> >> Your Obedient Servant As Ever, >> M.A.Smith Esq. >> Colony of Maryland >> Hunting Ridge >> >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --WebTV-Mail-23851-1103-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:39:03 -0400 From: "WindWalker" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? I will check into what I have for that area. Middle town was close and most likely used same port. Do you know their faith? I have most of church records for area *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/21/02 at 10:56 AM HuntingRidge@webtv.net wrote: >Wind Walker, I have in my family tree one Richard Mount showing up in >Middle Town NJ. >in 1695 ! Neighbors perhaps? > > M. > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:27:25 -0400 (EDT) From: HuntingRidge@webtv.net (Hunting Ridge) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? - --WebTV-Mail-14474-2035 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Wind Walker,the Mounts were Baptist's.I sure would be interested in any info you Have! Many Thanks, M. - --WebTV-Mail-14474-2035 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from smtpin-2206.public.lawson.webtv.net (209.240.213.136) by storefull-2315.public.lawson.webtv.net with WTV-SMTP; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by smtpin-2206.public.lawson.webtv.net (WebTV_Postfix+sws) with ESMTP id B1DD5FE1A; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 12:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LUEJ-0001N0-00 for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:37:59 -0600 Received: from [209.61.183.86] (helo=www.fastmail.fm) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 17LUEH-0001Mv-00 for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:37:57 -0600 Received: from www.fastmail.fm (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D4C6D9EC for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:37:50 -0500 (CDT) X-Epoch: 1024688270 X-Sasl-enc: cXeOfcZ2elBVfnUKKt/9TQ Received: from l6c4g8 (2Cust136.tnt2.ladue.mo.da.uu.net [65.239.175.136]) by www.fastmail.fm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 921AB6DA2F for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2002 14:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <200206211539030060.00E6992D@fastmail.fm> In-Reply-To: <16833-3D133E8B-2299@storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net> References: <16833-3D133E8B-2299@storefull-2317.public.lawson.webtv.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.30.00.00 (3) Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 15:39:03 -0400 From: "WindWalker" To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Frontier in 1702 ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com I will check into what I have for that area. Middle town was close and most likely used same port. Do you know their faith? I have most of church records for area *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 6/21/02 at 10:56 AM HuntingRidge@webtv.net wrote: >Wind Walker, I have in my family tree one Richard Mount showing up in >Middle Town NJ. >in 1695 ! Neighbors perhaps? > > M. > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --WebTV-Mail-14474-2035-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1048 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.