From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1086 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, September 20 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1086 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Fort Bridger -       MtMan-List: Leadership -       MtMan-List: leather question -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       MtMan-List: Trade goods in the Nations -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       MtMan-List: L&C film -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       Re: MtMan-List: L&C film -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       Re: MtMan-List: L&C film -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question -       Re: MtMan-List: leather question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Branson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fort Bridger - --0-1357595813-1032378604=:13963 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sir: I would like information about obtaining a booth space to sell flintlock rifles at Ft. Bridger next year. Please contact me at my own e-mail address: d49_mbranson@yahoo.com Allen Hall wrote:Hello, I thought maybe someone in the Fort Bridger area would be interested in this. Allen The very existance of the rendezvous as we know it will be discussed at the public meeting. It will be held at the Lyman Town Hall 10:00 a.m. on the 28th of september. 100 E Sage. It is very important for every one to be there. Please come and express what you liked or didn't like about the 2002 rendezvous. Thanks Kash (2002 Rendezvous Booshway) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines - --0-1357595813-1032378604=:13963 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Sir: I would like information about obtaining a booth space to sell flintlock rifles at Ft. Bridger next year. Please contact me at my own e-mail address: d49_mbranson@yahoo.com

 Allen Hall wrote:

Hello,

I thought maybe someone in the Fort Bridger area would be interested in this.

Allen

The very existance of the rendezvous as we know it will be discussed at the
public meeting. It will be held at the Lyman Town Hall 10:00 a.m. on the
28th of september. 100 E Sage. It is very important for every one to be
there. Please come and express what you liked or didn't like about the 2002
rendezvous.

Thanks Kash
(2002 Rendezvous Booshway)



----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News - Today's headlines - --0-1357595813-1032378604=:13963-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:12:20 -0600 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: Leadership After meeting the requirements for Bossloper in the AMM, a member sends in his paper work. I had heard about how terribly long it often takes to get your number. Well, I did some of the footwork at Bridger but it still arrived in less than a week. I would like to thank the leadership, it appears that they have got it together. Sincerely Wynn Ormond 1854 Perhaps someone could post this on the Members list also so that no one misses my appreciation. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 03:07:46 +0000 From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: MtMan-List: leather question Any of you have any experience with working commercial braintan? I've used it once before but I don't remember whether or not I stretched it like normal commercially tanned buckskin. Any comments or suggestions? Scott McMahon _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:24:30 EDT From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question - --part1_199.d66376a.2aba9d6e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott, My two cents experience with commerical or braintan is to stretch it. I have a buddy who has used commerical braintan and he stretched it and smoked it as well. If you dont mind what are you planning on making? Frank Sablan Midland,Texas - --part1_199.d66376a.2aba9d6e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott,   
My two cents experience with commerical or braintan is to stretch it.  I have a buddy who has used commerical braintan and he stretched it and smoked it as well.  If you dont mind what are you planning on making?

Frank Sablan
Midland,Texas - --part1_199.d66376a.2aba9d6e_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:14:34 -0700 From: "Prince, John" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question > > Scott, > My two cents experience with commerical or braintan is to stretch it. I > have a buddy who has used commerical braintan and he stretched it and smoked > it as well. If you dont mind what are you planning on making? > > Frank Sablan > Midland,Texas > Hello the camp; As someone who is totally new to buckskinning what is the purpose of stretching and what is a good way to smoke the leather? [Reading the posts on this list I sure can tell I live in the wrong part of the country!] John Prince Yorba Linda, Ca. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:59:48 +0000 From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: MtMan-List: Trade goods in the Nations I never heard back from anyone regarding trade goods in the Nations... nobody has any suggestions, tips, comments? I'm assuming it's pretty much the same as anywhere else there was Indian trade but just wanted to see if there were any ledgers out there with a definitive answer. Scott McMahon _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 22:51:06 EDT From: JOAQUINQS@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question - --part1_8.2cc67d13.2abbe71a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my humble opinion both commercial and braintan leather will stretch if sewn directly into a garment. Example, I made a pair of commerical elkskin pants and didnt stretch the leather, well after wearing them a while, sitting and bending, I looked as if I was carrying a load in my backside and my knees were stretched as if carrying grapefruits. I had to readjust them and sew again. I just recently finished a pair of braintan dropfront breeches and stretched and stretched the hides and the finished product is still stretching abit esp. the waist band, should have but a canvas band inside the waistband to prevent stretching but I live and learn. again this is just my two cents worth, it has worked for me. On smoking the hides sew the hide into a tube and attach a small canvas tube (this will be over the smoke source) use real punky wood and smoke away. Hope all this helps - --part1_8.2cc67d13.2abbe71a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my humble opinion both commercial and braintan leather will stretch if sewn directly into a garment.  Example, I made a pair of commerical elkskin pants and didnt stretch the leather, well after wearing them a while, sitting and bending, I looked as if I was carrying a load in my backside and my knees were stretched as if carrying grapefruits.  I had to readjust them and sew again.  I just recently finished a pair of braintan dropfront breeches and stretched and stretched the hides and the finished product is still stretching abit esp. the waist band, should have but a canvas band inside the waistband to prevent stretching but I live and learn.  again this is just my two cents worth, it has worked for me.  On smoking the hides sew the hide into a tube and attach a small canvas tube (this will be over the smoke source) use real punky wood and smoke away.  Hope all this helps - --part1_8.2cc67d13.2abbe71a_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:53:21 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: L&C film This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2607A.CA515680 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a review in today's paper about the Imax production of the = Lewis & Clark expedition. Not a "must see" film according to the review. The reviewer said the film is "gorgeous" and "maybe a little to = gorgeous". The entire two year trek is squeezed into 42 minutes on the = big screen. The reviewer also said, "the audience doesn't get a true sense of = the hardships.......". And for a conclusion, the film gives another version of the = pronunciation for Sacagawea. I won't try it here, or at all. Isn't this = pronunciation #85? Oh, well, it's Imax. I would enjoy seeing a full-length production = film on the L&C trek. Not holding my breath though. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ - ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2607A.CA515680 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    There is a review in today's paper about the = Imax=20 production of the Lewis & Clark expedition. Not a "must see" film = according=20 to the review.
    The reviewer said the film is "gorgeous" and = "maybe a=20 little to gorgeous". The entire two year trek is squeezed into 42 = minutes on the=20 big screen.
    The reviewer also said, "the audience doesn't = get a true=20 sense of the hardships.......".
    And for a conclusion, the film gives another = version of=20 the pronunciation for Sacagawea. I won't try it here, or at all. Isn't = this=20 pronunciation #85?
    Oh, well, it's Imax. I would enjoy seeing a = full-length=20 production film on the L&C trek. Not holding my breath though.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, AR
http://groups= .yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/
- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C2607A.CA515680-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 07:19:07 -0700 From: "Prince, John" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question > In my humble opinion both commercial and braintan leather will stretch if > sewn directly into a garment. Example, I made a pair of commerical elkskin > pants and didnt stretch the leather, well after wearing them a while, sitting > and bending, I looked as if I was carrying a load in my backside and my knees > were stretched as if carrying grapefruits. I had to readjust them and sew > again. I just recently finished a pair of braintan dropfront breeches and > stretched and stretched the hides and the finished product is still > stretching abit esp. the waist band, should have but a canvas band inside the > waistband to prevent stretching but I live and learn. again this is just my > two cents worth, it has worked for me. On smoking the hides sew the hide > into a tube and attach a small canvas tube (this will be over the smoke > source) use real punky wood and smoke away. Hope all this helps > Thanks for the information. Your comment about a canvas band inside waistband to prevent stretching seems logical. Could you not also line the inside of the pants with muslin/linen to reduce stretching or is this not correct? J. Prince - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:54:35 -0500 From: "Michael F. Clark" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C film > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3115360475_253962_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If you want to experience a bit of the L&C trek in a learning adventure style, my exploration partner, John Ruskey and I will be paddling our authentic dugout from the Three Forks to the Eads Bridge in St. Louis beginning October 7. This expedition is designed for classrooms and home schoolers, but you are welcome to join us, "virtually". Check out http://www.RuskeyandClark.com I saw the film also and thought that it focused a little bit too much on the helicopter shots of the river. That is the IMAX style...make your heart go thumpin' as you get the roller coaster effect. in the spirit of Big Medicine, mc - -- Michael F. Clark Big Muddy Adventures Director / Learning Adventure Guide / Curriculum Coordinator http://www.ruskeyandclark.com http://www.bigmuddyadventure.com bmcclark@earthlink.net There is a review in today's paper about the Imax production of the Lewis & Clark expedition. Not a "must see" film according to the review. The reviewer said the film is "gorgeous" and "maybe a little to gorgeous". The entire two year trek is squeezed into 42 minutes on the big screen. The reviewer also said, "the audience doesn't get a true sense of the hardships.......". And for a conclusion, the film gives another version of the pronunciation for Sacagawea. I won't try it here, or at all. Isn't this pronunciation #85? Oh, well, it's Imax. I would enjoy seeing a full-length production film on the L&C trek. Not holding my breath though. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, AR http://groups..yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ - --MS_Mac_OE_3115360475_253962_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: L&C film If you want to experience a bit of the L&C trek in a learning adventure= style, my exploration partner, John Ruskey and I will be paddling our authe= ntic dugout from the Three Forks to the Eads Bridge in St. Louis beginning O= ctober 7.  This expedition is designed for classrooms and home schooler= s, but you are welcome to join us, "virtually".  Check out ht= tp://www.RuskeyandClark.com

I saw the film also and thought that it focused a little bit too much on th= e helicopter shots of the river.  That is the IMAX style...make your he= art go thumpin' as you get the roller coaster effect.

in the spirit of Big Medicine,
mc
- --
Michael F. Clark
Big Muddy Adventures
Director / Learning Adventure Guide / Curriculum Coordinator
http://www.ruskeyandclark.com
http://www.bigmuddyadventure.com
bmcclark@earthlink.net

   There is a review in today's paper about the= Imax production of the Lewis & Clark expedition. Not a "must see&q= uot; film according to the review.
   The reviewer said the film is "gorgeous" and &= quot;maybe a little to gorgeous". The entire two year trek is squeezed = into 42 minutes on the big screen.
   The reviewer also said, "the audience doesn't get a= true sense of the hardships.......".
   And for a conclusion, the film gives another version of = the pronunciation for Sacagawea. I won't try it here, or at all. Isn't this = pronunciation #85?
   Oh, well, it's Imax. I would enjoy seeing a full-length = production film on the L&C trek. Not holding my breath though.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, AR
http://groups..yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/ <http://groups.yahoo= .com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/>


- --MS_Mac_OE_3115360475_253962_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:03:57 +0000 From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question Thanks for the comments! I've never stretched anything I've made out of braintan but I've really only used it for leggings and guantlets and not trousers which would probably be more likely to stretch. Regarding the waistband dilemma... I would suggest using a ducking or canvas liner from my experiences, don't know how "correct" this would be but I suspect that the people using these garments historically wouldn't have had the same pair of trousers long enough to worry about stretching waistbands... probably would've worn out fairly quick being worn all day everyday. Again, thanks for all the comments. Scott McMahon _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:08:14 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: L&C film - --part1_22.2f1d3d35.2abcaffe_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to say Mike Powell and I work on this movie and I would not walk across the street to see it my self. We put together the Shoshoni and Nezperce villages for it. With there lack of wanting to portray the Villages as they were described by Lewis and Clark. Their lack and willingness to even give a clear picture of the history of these people and what the Shoshoni were going threw at the time when they helped the expedition. To say the least I was very let down to think this movie was produced by National Geographic (I excepted better from them.) So I am not surprised that the rest of the movie was of no historic value too. Better luck next time Crazy Cyot - --part1_22.2f1d3d35.2abcaffe_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to say Mike Powell and I work on this movie and I would not walk across the street to see it my self. We put together the Shoshoni and Nezperce villages for it. With there lack of wanting to portray the Villages as they were described by Lewis and Clark. Their lack and willingness to even give a clear picture of the history of these people and what the Shoshoni were going threw at the time when they helped the expedition. To say the least I was very let down to think this movie was produced by National Geographic (I excepted better from them.) So I am not surprised that the rest of the movie was of no historic value too.

Better luck next time
Crazy Cyot - --part1_22.2f1d3d35.2abcaffe_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 14:01:09 EDT From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question - --part1_47.23756e43.2abcbc65_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leather stretches it's just the nature of the stuff, it's made of skin and skin stretches if it didn't when ya get fatter it would not fit ya any more. As for puree stretching it may help some but it's still going to stretch were it gets stress. Putting canvas in the waste bad is the best way to keep your breeches up and fitting you. It does not take long for leather to stretch, you could not ware them out fast enough to keep this from happening. As for them stretching to where ya, I looked as if ya was carrying a load in your backside and your knees were stretched as if carrying grapefruits. That's the way pantaloons and breeches looked they were made baggy in the seat that was the stile of them and if they are made of leather they will stretch in the knees no stopping it. As for lining the pants leather is warm enough to ware without doing this, I wouldn't. Make them and live in them and they will look like you have. See ya down the trail Crazy Cyot > - --part1_47.23756e43.2abcbc65_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leather stretches it's just the nature of the stuff, it's made of skin and skin stretches if it didn't when ya get fatter it would not fit ya any more. As for puree stretching it may help some but it's still going to stretch were it gets stress. Putting canvas in the waste bad is the best way to keep your breeches up and fitting you. It does not take long for leather to stretch, you could not ware them out fast enough to keep this from happening.  As for them stretching to where ya, I looked as if ya was carrying a load in your backside and your knees were stretched as if carrying grapefruits.
That's the way pantaloons and breeches looked they were made baggy in the seat that was the stile of them and if they are made of leather they will stretch in the knees no stopping it. As for lining the pants leather is warm enough to ware without doing this, I wouldn't. Make them and live in them and they will look like you have.
See ya down the trail
Crazy Cyot


 
- --part1_47.23756e43.2abcbc65_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:20:15 +0000 From: "scott mcmahon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question Crazy Cyot, Agree with you on all but one point. Trousers and pantaloons did not have a droopy "diaper" butt during our periods of interest. That's great for the 1700's but they were well fitted for our period. Look at period illustrations, fashion plates or tailors guides and you will see a tighter, more fitted garment than what you are expecting. If anyone is interested I know of a great 19th century tailor that can make you a garment or pattern that'll fit like an original! Take care and we'll tlak to you later. SMc _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 18:11:48 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather question - --part1_de.2d6dc190.2abcf724_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMO if you line the seat and/or legs of braintanned britches you will lose some if not all of the 'breatheablilty' of the material; one of it's outstanding properties. Barney - --part1_de.2d6dc190.2abcf724_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMO if you line the seat and/or legs of braintanned britches you will lose some if not all of the 'breatheablilty' of the material; one of it's outstanding properties.  Barney - --part1_de.2d6dc190.2abcf724_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #1086 ******************************** - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.