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Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #1181
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hist_text-digest        Monday, March 31 2003        Volume 01 : Number 1181



In this issue:

-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List: post-1840
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       MtMan-List: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:27:37 -0500
-       MtMan-List: post-1840
-       MtMan-List: leather halters
-       Re: MtMan-List: post-1840
-       Re: MtMan-List: leather halters
-       RE: MtMan-List: Re: Gun Cleaning in the Mtns
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List: post-1840
-       Re: MtMan-List: post-1840
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List: post-1840
-       Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
-       MtMan-List: Re: Extra-Primitive Camps
-       Re: MtMan-List: post 1840
-       Re: MtMan-List: post 1840

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 08:37:40 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

> It seems to be, as others have pointed out, that people already wear Colt
> Patterson's and partake of technology considered much too late for the
> rendezvous "era" and these things are accepted, because they can't be
> stopped.

Jim,

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. They are not accepted and can be
stopped. At the very least (this is providing the Dog Soldiers don't collar
you) it's not much fun walking through camp with your Colts on your hip
having people serenade you with "Streets of Laredo" and other popular
ditties. Peer pressure has it's power.

And I do think we are making serious reply to the question. Surely you do
not think that because there isn't a sudden upwelling of enthusiasm that we
don't take this serious and a bit of humor never hurts. <G>

<So, if we have the evils without the benefits, why not open up the
> time period and take advantage of the benefits as well?

Only in your mind Jim. I don't see any benefits. The whole game is tied to a
very narrow period of American History. Widen that time frame out and it is
no longer Rendezvous.

>
> But truly, I really only thought of continuing the portrayal, as modern
> rendezvous does, of the FUR TRADE. I'm sure a few gold miners and Mormon
> immigrants would walk in to our rendezvous (they already do, but they
think
> they're representing mountain men).

You see all that not because it is appropriate but because people haven't
done their home work. Really what your suggesting is to open up the time
frame because some people already do, but then you would get upset if people
started showing up at such events portraying much later era's that took away
from your pre-1860 time frame.

 I've seen covered wagons that date
> beyond the fur trade at our rendezvous and all these things are accepted.
> The guidelines could, if this thought was ever seriously entertained,
> stipulate that this is a fur trade event, pre-1860.

See the above comments about loosing control of even the pre-1860 time
frame.

I would be surprised if anyone here got too upset about having a discussion
of post 1840 fur trade issues/history if that is what you want to do. Of
course you might not get anyone to discuss it but it might be worth taking
the chance.

It hasn't been said yet but you also might consider looking for a chat list
that caters to a later time period. And I surely don't mean that your not
welcome here. I've enjoyed your questions and comments. It's just that this
list is really not about the Mormon Migration or the California Gold Rush.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:33:45 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post-1840

Capt. Lahti,

Judging from the last lines of your previous post, it is obvious you 
intentionally distort the meaning of my communications, or you're taking 
things out of context. I never advocated a Mormon rendezvous outside 
representing people like the trapper, Beaver Dick, who had a Mormon family.

From "Wah-to-yah and the Taos Trail":

"The Indians laughed at us, saying, 'Ten-o-wast?' - 'What is it' - which we 
explained to the best of our ability. My books and backgammon board, paper 
and pencil, were great novelties to the savages, who would attentively 
examine them, look at me, shake their heads, and, after a sober pause and 
sometimes a puzzled expression of features, exclaim, 'Mah-ke-o-nih 
ma-son-ne', 'Big Wolf's foolish.' So it was! everything beyond their 
comprehension was ma-son-ne."

Big Wolf



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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:43:44 -0800
From: "Bear Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

You see all that not because it is appropriate but because people haven't
done their home work. Really what your suggesting is to open up the time
frame because some people already do, but then you would get upset if people
started showing up at such events portraying much later era's that took away
from your pre-1860 time frame.


This thought that I have may or may not have been tried, but here it is
anyway. I have seen this at a few rendezvous in the past and it seemed to
work. Most rendezvous have a modern camp and a primitive camp. The object is
to keep the primitive camp pre-1840, which I think we all agree is sometimes
a hard thing to do. My thought is why not have a third camp, a small area
set aside at rendezvous for the really hardcore mountain men. An area devoid
of high tension wires, roads, privy's and tents of any kind. Camps would
consist of brush lean-tos and/or just throwing the bedroll on the ground. A
bedroll would consist of a Hudson Bay or Whitney blanket or maybe a buffalo
robe. Camp gear would be what a man could carry in a back pack or on his
person if he did not have a horse or mule. Which means that I doubt that
there would be any fire irons and/or cast iron pots or pans. A place where a
"skinner" could get stupid drunk, tell true and honest stories, get in a
wrestling match if one is so inclined and where an unloaded gun is
considered a fatal mistake. Of course, there would be "IDIOTS" that would
try and invade this encampment and we all know what I am talking about
there. The only rule that would be needed would be a general consensus of
the people in the camp that if an "IDIOT" screws up, they are out !!!!
"PERIOD" The final say-so would be up to the Booshway of the rendezvous of
course. So, what do y'all think !!!!!
                                      "Two Bears"


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:00:31 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

In a message dated 3/31/03 9:38:51 AM, amm1719@charter.net writes:

<< Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. They are not accepted and can be

stopped. At the very least (this is providing the Dog Soldiers don't collar

you) it's not much fun walking through camp with your Colts on your hip

having people serenade you with "Streets of Laredo" and other popular

ditties. Peer pressure has it's power. >>

Now That is a diplomatic answer.  

"Jim" (though I missed the first part of this thread) - you are looking for 
an historic festival - not a rendezvous.  They have them, but fur trade 
people do not like their happenings contaminated with other era stuff.
Richard James

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:01:04 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

That's what I'm talking about! I don't see why it wouldn't work and it would 
provide different levels that people could aspire to. Of course, you'll find 
lots of people that will find problems with this, but will not have the 
ability to think of solutions to the problems that may go along with this 
scenario.

Big Wolf






>From: "Bear Kelsey" <tubears@charter.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 09:43:44 -0800
>
>
>You see all that not because it is appropriate but because people haven't
>done their home work. Really what your suggesting is to open up the time
>frame because some people already do, but then you would get upset if 
>people
>started showing up at such events portraying much later era's that took 
>away
>from your pre-1860 time frame.
>
>
>This thought that I have may or may not have been tried, but here it is
>anyway. I have seen this at a few rendezvous in the past and it seemed to
>work. Most rendezvous have a modern camp and a primitive camp. The object 
>is
>to keep the primitive camp pre-1840, which I think we all agree is 
>sometimes
>a hard thing to do. My thought is why not have a third camp, a small area
>set aside at rendezvous for the really hardcore mountain men. An area 
>devoid
>of high tension wires, roads, privy's and tents of any kind. Camps would
>consist of brush lean-tos and/or just throwing the bedroll on the ground. A
>bedroll would consist of a Hudson Bay or Whitney blanket or maybe a buffalo
>robe. Camp gear would be what a man could carry in a back pack or on his
>person if he did not have a horse or mule. Which means that I doubt that
>there would be any fire irons and/or cast iron pots or pans. A place where 
>a
>"skinner" could get stupid drunk, tell true and honest stories, get in a
>wrestling match if one is so inclined and where an unloaded gun is
>considered a fatal mistake. Of course, there would be "IDIOTS" that would
>try and invade this encampment and we all know what I am talking about
>there. The only rule that would be needed would be a general consensus of
>the people in the camp that if an "IDIOT" screws up, they are out !!!!
>"PERIOD" The final say-so would be up to the Booshway of the rendezvous of
>course. So, what do y'all think !!!!!
>                                       "Two Bears"
>
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:14:44 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

In a message dated 3/31/03 9:28:56 AM, mackannai@hotmail.com writes:

<< These men who came later interest me. They were real mountain men >>

How are you defining "mountain men"  (a phrase NOT contemporary with the 
1800s)?
Do you mean the men who came out here because their job was trapping and 
trading for furs?  Or are you refering to the type that likes to wear leather 
clothes with beadwork and gee-gaws hanging off them and makes a lot of noise??
Richard James.

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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:28:53 -0700 
From: "william stidd" <wstidd@neo.rr.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:27:37 -0500

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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:01:57 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: post-1840

    The 1840 cut-off was selected because it represented the end of the fur
trade era in the Rocky Mountains. I don't know who did the selection of that
date but I suspect it evolved over a period of time by agreement of some
early modern day reenactors.
    For those who want to explore slices of history from later eras there is
plenty of opportunity. I have a friend who is deeply involved in the Gold
Rush era. He says it actually started in 1848 but the term "forty-eighters"
just didn't have the right ring to it. So the term "forty-niners" is what is
popularly known as the beginning.
    I'll vote to keep the cut-off at 1840.
    Ye wanna do pioneers? Then go fer it. But call it something else.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, AR
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:06:26 -0600
From: "Frank Fusco" <Rifleman1776@centurytel.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: leather halters

    When we first started this buckskinin' thing, and didn't know any
better, we believed almost anything anyone told us. At the first events we
attended we saw quite a few women wearing buckskin halter tops and
delightfully little on the bottom.
    My wife, then having the figure for it, made herself a halter top and
very short-shorts set of buckskin. It looked great and in hot weather was
comfortable. But with time both the wearer and the stretchy 'skins grew to
where it couldn't be worn anymore.
    It is still packed away but won't be seen at ronny.
    Wasn't correct, but wuz fun.
Frank G. Fusco
Mountain Home, AR
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ozarksmuzzleloaders/


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:27:38 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post-1840

In a message dated 3/31/03 12:02:40 PM, Rifleman1776@centurytel.net writes:

<< I don't know who did the selection of that date but I suspect it evolved 
over a period of time by agreement of some early modern day reenactors. >>

YES!
It started with the AMM when they had a cut off date of 1850 but changed it 
to 1840 because Levi Staus was making britches for the '49er and we didn't 
think Levis were correct for rendezvous.  It was linked to the last 
significant rendezvous date at the same time.  This was 1973.  Anyone have a 
story that pre-dates this one??

Richard James

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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:30:09 EST
From: SWzypher@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leather halters

In a message dated 3/31/03 12:06:52 PM, Rifleman1776@centurytel.net writes:

<<  My wife, then having the figure for it, made herself a halter top and

very short-shorts set of buckskin. It looked great and in hot weather was

comfortable. But with time both the wearer and the stretchy 'skins grew to

where it couldn't be worn anymore. >>

Shucks, yeah.  We know what we like!  We like period authenticity! and we 
like . . . . . . . . . . .! that has nothing to do with that kind of period.

RJames

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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 11:35:32 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Re: Gun Cleaning in the Mtns

Larry
I spoke in haste regarding manifests. I was probably thinking of the
references in journals such as I turned up on the Internet. Perhaps they
were made at forts, or even by individuals using material at hand. 
Sorry to be misleading.
Best regards
Pat Quilter

- -----Original Message-----
From: larry pendleton [mailto:yrrw@airmail.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 6:07 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Gun Cleaning in the Mtns


These are just the first page of Google responses to "wiping sticks", so it
appears there are numerous references in journals.

>>Pat,
  Like you, I've found lots of references to "wiping sticks", but I can find
no record of them being hauled to the mountains for trade.  I've checked all
the lists on Dean's Site and unless I missed something, they ain't there.

Pendleton


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:52:06 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

Richard,

I define mountain man as one who made his living trapping and trading or 
participating in the fur trade in the rocky mountains.

What do you think this discussion is about?

Jim






>From: SWzypher@aol.com
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:14:44 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 3/31/03 9:28:56 AM, mackannai@hotmail.com writes:
>
><< These men who came later interest me. They were real mountain men >>
>
>How are you defining "mountain men"  (a phrase NOT contemporary with the
>1800s)?
>Do you mean the men who came out here because their job was trapping and
>trading for furs?  Or are you refering to the type that likes to wear 
>leather
>clothes with beadwork and gee-gaws hanging off them and makes a lot of 
>noise??
>Richard James.
>
>----------------------
>hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 14:19:14 -0600
From: "James MacKannai" <mackannai@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post-1840

Richard, Frank and Roger,

I must not be making myself clear. I am not talking about reenacting 
PIONEERS. I am NOT talking about reenacting pioneers. I'm not interested in 
49ers, B-grade westerns and anything else you can think of that will 
distract others from the real point.

I am talking about reenacting the mountain men. They didn't all die or 
disappear off the face of the earth after 1840. They all did not turn into 
Mormons or gold miners or immigrants. They also did not turn into Indians. 
They stayed mountain men, in the Rocky Mounatains and trapped beaver and 
other furs, except it was after 1840. I don't know where the idea came from. 
PLEASE direct me to a website that welcomes those who want to portray 
mountain men from 1840 to 1860. Please DO NOT direct me to Hollywood, 49ers, 
Civil War, Indian Wars, immigrants, or anything else outside the trappers 
and fur traders of the Rocky Mountains during the 1840-1860 time period.

I think most of the posts responding to my initial question are hilarious. 
By the way, though I am certain I have a sense of humor, I have been assured 
by others I do not.

I have read several years worth of back log on this site. It seems to be 
popular to debate rather than discuss. Discussion requires responsibility to 
be familiar with the actual content of the posts rather than having a knee 
jerk reaction to someone elses response which was equally ignorant, 
intentionally or not.

I can see there is no use to follow this up further.

Do you all know anything about how far east the elk ranged during the 1826-7 
period?

Jim



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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:41:15 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post-1840

Jim,

I'm sorry you even mentioned the Mormon migration. I certainly wouldn't have
though of it. And if you think I am distorting the meaning of what you are
writing, all I can do is suggest you examine what you write before you send
it. I'm certainly not trying to distort what you say on purpose, really, I
am responding to your thoughts with my take on those thoughts.

Anyway, let's get off that and back to what you were saying, that we might
consider a rendezvous that covers more western history other than just the
pre-1840's, for example, etc.

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 12:57:10 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

 <My thought is why not have a third camp, a small area
set aside at rendezvous for the really hardcore mountain men. An area devoid
of high tension wires, roads, privy's and tents of any kind.>

Two Bears,

There already is a place like that. It's called "The Primitive Camp" and
that is what your supposed to see there. Those who will go to the trouble of
camping that way have dwindled down to such a few that they are actually
hard to find and won't be found in any case in the middle of camp. As to
rules, be careful. They had and used wedge tents and though I hate to say it
there is visual evidence suggesting the use of pyramid tents. Not every
trapper camp and not all the time but tents were used. It's the many other
things that folks bring with them that are really not appropriate but are
allowed for various reasons. Not the lest of which is that the modern
western Rendezvous is honestly a commercial venture, almost held for the
traders who set up as much as the campers. They are not really in the
business of turning folks away.

The supposed atmosphere of an original Rendezvous will not be permitted to
exist in this day and age simply because of the family atmosphere and of
course the families that attend. The majority will only put up with so much
hell raising and then it's off to the gate with you. I happen to agree with
that stand.

But even though an AMM National might be the closest thing you'll see to an
original Rendezvous, there is not the hell raising and etc. that many think
is necessary to make a Rendezvous a Rendezvous. Maybe we are getting too old
for such shenanigans any more. <G> But you can get stupid drunk and tell
lies and true stories to your hearts content at any of the Western
Rendezvous I've been to in recent years. And you can get into an impromptu
wrestling match with anyone who's willing to join you at any of the Western
Rendezvous I've been to in recent years. But considering some of the
pilgrims I see at those events I'm not sure it's a bad rule to forbid loaded
guns in camp (as though anyone abided by that one <G>).

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 15:59:50 EST
From: GazeingCyot@cs.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post-1840

- --part1_1e1.5bb3ded.2bba0646_boundary
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Big Wolf
ya came up with a new one on me Beaver Dick Leigh had a Mormon family?
To my knowledge both his Families were form Indian wives. Jenny Lake in Teton 
Park is named after one of them. They may have join the Mormon Church to try 
to fit in with the town of Eagle Rock that sprang up around them. That later 
became know as Idaho Falls in these years he was kind of an out cast know as 
a Squaw Man for having Indian wives. His first Family all died from illness 
can't remember what right now it has been a while since I read his biography 
and can't seem to locate the book right now most of loan it out to the wind 
some time back. I don't do that any more.

Jim 
I have read some on the history post 1840 and to tell ya the truth when the 
Rendezvous died out and the settlers stated moving in and through this 
country it looses it's charm for me. That is when a new attitude started to 
come in that takes away from the freedom and wilds of this country and 
changes it for me. The lives of the Indians and trappers and Traders all 
change with it and for me it was not for the good. That for me this is the 
start of the decline of the part of history that I love.
Crazy Cyot 

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>Big Wolf
<BR>ya came up with a new one on me Beaver Dick Leigh had a Mormon family?
<BR>To my knowledge both his Families were form Indian wives. Jenny Lake in=20=
Teton Park is named after one of them. They may have join the Mormon Church=20=
to try to fit in with the town of Eagle Rock that sprang up around them. Tha=
t later became know as Idaho Falls in these years he was kind of an out cast=
 know as a Squaw Man for having Indian wives. His first Family all died from=
 illness can't remember what right now it has been a while since I read his=20=
biography and can't seem to locate the book right now most of loan it out to=
 the wind some time back. I don't do that any more.
<BR>
<BR>Jim=20
<BR>I have read some on the history post 1840 and to tell ya the truth when=20=
the Rendezvous died out and the settlers stated moving in and through this c=
ountry it looses it's charm for me. That is when a new attitude started to c=
ome in that takes away from the freedom and wilds of this country and change=
s it for me. The lives of the Indians and trappers and Traders all change wi=
th it and for me it was not for the good. That for me this is the start of t=
he decline of the part of history that I love.
<BR>Crazy Cyot </FONT></HTML>

- --part1_1e1.5bb3ded.2bba0646_boundary--

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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:08:36 -0800
From: "roger lahti" <amm1719@charter.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:post 1840

 Peer pressure has it's power. >>
>
> Now That is a diplomatic answer.
>
> "Jim" (though I missed the first part of this thread) - you are looking
for
> an historic festival - not a rendezvous.

James,

I'm thinking that all this talk of having expanded events and side camps and
such is a cover for the real issue. It would be fun to dress like a Mt. Man,
A trader, A Military Man of that era, A brave pioneer moving west, The
hundreds of French Canadians and Eastern Indians involved in the early and
late period along with the Miners and Mormons and early Cowboys, and Lord
only knows what else our fertile minds can come up with. And be able to move
from "Era Camp" to "Era Camp" to see what everyone is wearing.



Sounds like "Cross Dressing" to me...........


JUST KIDDING! <G>

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'



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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 13:25:28 -0800
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Extra-Primitive Camps

Regarding the idea of a "ultra-primitive" camp section:

With due respect to the theory that all rendezvous camps should attain this
standard, the reality is that the trappers at the original rendezvous were
all rough-living men, thoroughly accustomed to living outdoors, and our
modern wimmen and chilluns demand more privacy and decorum than they had
back then. The original rdv had extensive Indian attendance, with the
requisite number of lodges etc, but these were in their own areas, spread
out for miles along the river bottom. The modern gathering is sort of a
pastiche of Indian lodges, fancy "family" tents, and the occasional simple
easy-to-carry campsite. 

The Rdv's that I go to in California usually have some ultra-primitive
sections. A number of AMM members show up, walking their gear in as usual,
and often camp together although not rigidly defined or enforced. If you
walk around, you may discover one or more "diggervilles" comprising a
handful of bedrolls and diamond flies taking advantage of natural brush and
shade. But as everyone knows, as soon as you travel with family, the whole
ball game changes. The modern event IS a family doings, and you simply have
to adjust to this. Various groups including the AMM still go out with "just
the guys" (and a few plucky women) to recreate the feeling of really living
on the ground. Each experience has its own rewards. The modern rendezvous is
not an exact copy of the original event, but captures the festivities,
comaraderie, feasting, music, and greeting of old friends in a way that is
rarely seen these days.

Best regards

Pat Quilter


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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:22:23 -0500
From: Linda Holley <tipis@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840

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You would you old war monger with long eye balls.
;-)

Linda Holley....but then again.......I like the view from my side with 
the boys and their  breech cloths.

roger lahti wrote:

> <Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour shirts.>
>  
> I remember a young "lady" at the first rendezvous we went to back in, 
> well I can't remember when but it was up on the Boulder River from Big 
> Timber. She was dressed in leggings, breech clout and a fairly short 
> shirt.
>  
> I been' comin' back every since!
>  
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>  
>  



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You would you old war monger with long eye balls.<br>
;-)<br>
<br>
Linda Holley....but then again.......I like the view from my side with the
boys and their &nbsp;breech cloths.<br>
<br>
roger lahti wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid002101c2f727$901ead70$72057744@x2d1a5">
  <title></title>
  
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
 
  <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name="GENERATOR">
 
  <style></style>  
  <div>&lt;Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour
 shirts.&gt;</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I remember a young "lady" at the first
rendezvous  we went to back in, well I can't remember when but it was up
on the Boulder  River from Big Timber. She was dressed in leggings, breech
clout and a fairly  short shirt. </font></div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I been' comin' back every since!</font></div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">YMOS<br>
Capt. Lahti'</font></div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:24:51 -0500
From: Linda Holley <tipis@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: post 1840

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Oh!!!!! geeee!!!! another long eye baller.  You guys just amaze me.  But 
I love it.

Linda Holley.....naked at the sweat lodge.

Bear Kelsey wrote:

> <Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour shirts.>
>  
> I remember a young "lady" at the first rendezvous we went to back in, 
> well I can't remember when but it was up on the Boulder River from Big 
> Timber. She was dressed in leggings, breech clout and a fairly short 
> shirt.
>  
> I been' comin' back every since!
>  
> YMOS
> Capt. Lahti'
>  
>  
> Seen one at a rondy in Washington state once that had a rather short 
> halter top made from buck skin. Her problem was fallout every time she 
> bent over to look at trade goods on the ground. Didn't seem to bother 
> her to much. She would just reach up and stuff them back in and go 
> right on chatting with whoever she was talking to. When I seen what 
> was going on, I took all my trade goods off the tables that I had and 
> put them on blankets on the ground. It was worth the trouble, too!!!!  
> "Two Bears"



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  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body>
Oh!!!!! geeee!!!! another long eye baller. &nbsp;You guys just amaze me. &nbsp;But
I love it.<br>
<br>
Linda Holley.....naked at the sweat lodge.<br>
<br>
Bear Kelsey wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
 cite="mid008401c2f72f$2d157620$84367444@computer">  
  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
 
  <meta content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name="GENERATOR">
 
  <style></style>  
  <div> 
  <div>&lt;Love some of the girls going around in breech clout and honour
 shirts.&gt;</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I remember a young "lady" at the first
rendezvous  we went to back in, well I can't remember when but it was up
on the Boulder  River from Big Timber. She was dressed in leggings, breech
clout and a fairly  short shirt. </font></div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">I been' comin' back every since!</font></div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">YMOS<br>
Capt. Lahti'</font></div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div>&nbsp;</div>
 
  <div><font face="Arial" size="2">Seen one at a rondy in Washington state
once that  had a rather short halter top made from buck skin. Her problem
was fallout every  time she bent over to look at trade goods on the ground.
Didn't seem to bother  her to much. She would just reach up and stuff them
back in and go right on  chatting with whoever she was talking to. When I
seen what was going on, I took  all my trade goods off the tables that I
had and put them on blankets on the  ground. It was worth the trouble, too!!!!&nbsp;
"Two  Bears"</font></div>
  </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

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