Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
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Back when I started playing mountain man. One of the most troubling things to me, was the thought of walking around the wild country in soft soled un supportive mocs. the sharp rocks, prickly pear and other instant reminders of one's mortality. Seemed insurmountable with such seemingly flimsy footwear. I quickly found out, wearing soft soled mocs aint that bad..................... Not that a sharp rock or a prickly pear spine doesn't find it's unwelcome way in to my city feet once in a while. my feet have toughened in the years since i started wearing them. you quickly learn where and what you do not put your feet in or on. so much so, that it is done instinctively and without thinking.
as for winter time, i wear the same kind of mocs only they are lined with fur and wool both.
as a side note, i think if you have health issues like diabetes. you should guard you feet with your life and authenticity certainly should take a back seat to your health.
Tom, AMM#1834
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Mitchell
To: hist_text@xmission.com
Sent: 7/30/2004 12:47:21 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: footwear
Hello to camp
I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =
=3D
run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =
=3D
also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few =
=3D
treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to =
=3D
soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I =
=3D
was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D
wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D
that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =
=3D
of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I =
=3D
feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D
asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a =
=3D
bit faster=3D20
thank you=3D20
Keith=3D20
p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in =
=3D
the way of help=3D20
I will do my best
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Back when I started playing mountain man. One of the most troubling things to me, was the thought of walking around the wild country in soft soled un supportive mocs. the sharp rocks, prickly pear and other instant reminders of one's mortality. Seemed insurmountable with such seemingly flimsy footwear. I quickly found out, wearing soft soled mocs aint that bad..................... Not that a sharp rock or a prickly pear spine doesn't find it's unwelcome way in to my city feet once in a while. my feet have toughened in the years since i started wearing them. you quickly learn where and what you do not put your feet in or on. so much so, that it is done instinctively and without thinking.
as for winter time, i wear the same kind of mocs only they are lined with fur and wool both.
as a side note, i think if you have health issues like diabetes. you should guard you feet with your life and authenticity certainly should take a back seat to your health.
Tom, AMM#1834
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 7/30/2004 12:47:21 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: footwear
Hello to camp
I'm new to this sport and new to this page my name is Keith Mitchell I =
=3D
run my own tannery and do all types of skins even period correct stuff I =
=3D
also am a butcher by trade I am working on my persona and after a few =
=3D
treks I want to change my footwear the center and side seams just are to =
=3D
soft and after hiking in the rocky mts of Utah my feet are a bit sore I =
=3D
was reading mark bakers book and like the shoe pack idea but was =3D
wondering if it was period for the rocky mtn fur trade my persona is =3D
that of a company trapper so after reading all I could from the 8 books =
=3D
of buckskining and several other books I have yet to come up with what I =
=3D
feel will be right so I am taking advice from mark bakers book and =3D
asking the trial worn experts for help so my pilgrims journey will be a =
=3D
bit faster=3D20
thank you=3D20
Keith=3D20
p.s. I also run traps all winter and if there is anything I can offer in =
=3D
the way of help=3D20
I will do my best
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 20:25:14 -0700
From: "Randal Bublitz"
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
Hi Keith, I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard sole moccasin. I broke my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and I'm still gimpy from it. Needless to say, I appreciate good footware even more now. You might want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes. They are periodic correct, and are shoes and boots. The cost isn't much, if any , more than good mocs. Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good hard sole side seam mocs, if you want to stick to mocs. Just a suggestion. Randy
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 21:53:20 -0700
From: "RP Lahti"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
Geez Beaverboy calm down. Your gonna hyperventilate.
I stand by the basic premise of my original statement. I certainly did not
mean to imply that no one traveled by boat but it seems that with the Plains
Indians being a horse culture and most if not all the brigades in the
hey-day of the RMFT (Rocky Mt. Fur Trade) being at one time or the other
mostly mounted, most folks of the times being much more inured to "having
their feet broke in for walking besides, and all the info in the way of
journals and drawings and sketches showing various types of soft sole
moccasins that it seems most wore soft sole mocs of one design or the other.
I thought I also provided rational enough for someone in our times who just
could not get by with such foot wear to "adopt" at the least foot wear of a
recent earlier time contemporary to the RMFT era that was less soft soled.
If you want to carry it a bit further, there were more than a few boots and
shoes sent west according to shipping ledgers.
As Tom pointed out there are certainly medical reasons for wearing something
more protective than soft soles but I have a pair of center seam/vamped high
top mocs of brain tan that I made a number of years back. Along with the
socks and blanket liners I've added, walking on rough ground isn't all that
bad as infrequently as I do. Plain one layer brain tanned deer mocs of any
style are gonna be hard to get used to if you don't go out almost weekly.
I had a buddy many years ago that just could not deal with not having good
foot support so he made a pair of side seams that his "Georgia Boots" would
fit in. Didn't hurt my feelings a bit knowing it. At least he got out on the
ground.
And Randy has a good idea steering anyone with foot problems to outfits like
Fugawee for period boots and shoes. I wear them when the going gets rough.
(I don't have a horse, I'm looking for it )
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 05:41:28 -0500
From: "Lanney Ratcliff"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
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I can vouch for the Fugawee boots. I have a pair of the straight last =
laceups and find that they are sturdy and comfortable. I treated them =
to within an inch of their life with Montana Pitch Blend so they shed =
water like the hood on my '57 Chevy. I am diabetic with some minor =
numbness in both feet and I feel very confident wearing them around =
rocks & Texas cactus (and the stray copperhead). The boots are all =
leather and sewn with linen thread and come in large sizes. The company =
is run directly from the owner's home and contacting them with questions =
is no problem. I wish I had bought them years ago.
It's very early on Saturday and I find myself writing in short, choppy =
sentences that my old journalism teacher, Mrs. Betty Donovan Knox, would =
thoroughly disapprove of so I'm going to have a cup of strong black =
coffee and go to work. I have to inspect the installation of 550 tons =
of asphalt paving for FedEx in the warm Texas muggy sunshine today. I'm =
glad that I'm the inspector instead of somebody who actually has to =
work.
TTFN
Lanney
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Randal Bublitz=20
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
Hi Keith, I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard =
sole moccasin. I broke my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and =
I'm still gimpy from it. Needless to say, I appreciate good footware =
even more now. You might want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes. =
They are periodic correct, and are shoes and boots. The cost isn't =
much, if any , more than good mocs. Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good =
hard sole side seam mocs, if you want to stick to mocs. Just a =
suggestion. Randy
http://www.fugawee.com/
http://www.stitchinscotsman.com/
---------------------- hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I can vouch for the Fugawee =
boots. I have a pair of the straight last laceups and find that =
they are=20
sturdy and comfortable. I treated them to within an inch of their =
life=20
with Montana Pitch Blend so they shed water like the hood on my '57 =
Chevy. =20
I am diabetic with some minor numbness in both feet and I feel very =
confident=20
wearing them around rocks & Texas cactus (and the stray =
copperhead). =20
The boots are all leather and sewn with linen thread and come in =
large=20
sizes. The company is run directly from the owner's home and =
contacting=20
them with questions is no problem. I wish I had bought them years=20
ago.
It's very early on Saturday =
and I find=20
myself writing in short, choppy sentences that my old journalism =
teacher, Mrs.=20
Betty Donovan Knox, would thoroughly disapprove of so I'm going to have =
a cup of=20
strong black coffee and go to work. I have to inspect the =
installation of=20
550 tons of asphalt paving for FedEx in the warm Texas muggy =
sunshine=20
today. I'm glad that I'm the inspector instead of somebody =
who=20
actually has to work.
TTFN
Lanney
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
Randal=20
Bublitz
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 =
10:25=20
PM
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: =
footwear
Hi=20
=
Keith, &=
nbsp; =20
I've always appreciated a good supportive, hard sole moccasin. I =
broke=20
my heel bone almost a year and a half ago, and I'm still gimpy from =
it. =20
Needless to say, I appreciate good footware even more now. You =
might=20
want to check out Fugawee boots and shoes. They are periodic =
correct,=20
and are shoes and boots. The cost isn't much, if any , more than =
good=20
mocs. Stitchin' Scotsman makes some good hard sole side seam =
mocs, if=20
you want to stick to mocs. Just a suggestion. =
Randy
http://www.stitchinscotsman.com=
/
----------------------=20
hist_text list info: =
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html=20
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 11:01:39 GMT
From: "trampas4@juno.com"
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: footwear
I agree with Tom. I too started out as a tender foot! I even had dyers. Over time I have become very comfortable with my soft sole mocs. In fact I enjoy them, they are like a pair of socks. I even bring them on modern camps and hunts. The more you wear them the more your feet toughen up. Its all about getting acclimated and just how far you want to go in being P.C.,as well as your health.Just remember we are doing this for fun and those men did this stuff for a living.
I wear side seams and pucker-toes since I portray a trapper in the rocky mtn west during the 1830s.All of mine are double sole, this helps a lot. When things get rough I will cut out pads of hair on buffalo, deer or elk. Its like cheating, it feels so good.
I have used elk, deer,buffalo and moose. In both commercial and braintan. I prefer braintan, but commercial works fine. The elk and moose seem to hold up much better in my experience. One thing to remember is that nothing waterproofs them! Alway carry two pairs. The fit is the most important thing of all, make sure the seams don't rub.
Gee,I always thought the upper Missouri had something to do with the RMFT, didn't it?
Bill G
AMM# 1880
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:52:47 -0600 (MDT)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
> Geez Beaverboy calm down. Your gonna hyperventilate.
Don't worry Capt. I'm OK it's just that sometimes "broad sweeping
statements" take my breath away.
>
> I stand by the basic premise of my original statement. I certainly did not
> mean to imply that no one traveled by boat but...
Lets see what you wrote "Keeping in mind that virtually all original
participants in the RMFT era
> were mounted it's understandable how they got by so handily in the
various soft sole moccasin styles". Sounds pretty clear to me. "Virtually
all original" is pretty clear and pretty sweeping.
But now you write "being at ONE TIME OR the OTHER mostly mounted"
which I do agree with.
You should be a politician!
As a mostly boat or on foot trapper portraying the earliest of Mountain
Men-Colter, who some consider the "original" MM it is a fact that not
many references to Colter being on horse back exist. He did his famous
"walk" to Yellowstone not horse back ride. He was in a dugout when
captured by the Blackfeet not on horseback. And he walked back to Fort
Lisa he didn't go "mounted" and he was barefooted too, no mocs! This
all this took place before 1810 which should go as one of the "original
participants" doesn't it?
Weren't all of Lisa's trips up the Missouri in boats? Didn't he
organize the first private trapping adventure up the Missouri after
Lewis & Clark returned? In 1807. Doesn't that qualify him as one of the
"originals"? I always assumed he was a part of the RMFT.
But like I said before, It doesn't matter if they were mounted anyway.
They had to set traps on foot in rocky streams and spend the other half
of their lives on the rocky ground like the rest of us. Their feet
where just tougher than ours.
Respectfully yours,
bb
> Indians being a horse culture and most if not all the brigades in the
> hey-day of the RMFT (Rocky Mt. Fur Trade) being at one time or the other
> mostly mounted, most folks of the times being much more inured to "having
> their feet broke in for walking besides, and all the info in the way of
> journals and drawings and sketches showing various types of soft sole
> moccasins that it seems most wore soft sole mocs of one design or the
> other.
>
> I thought I%2
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 06:41:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: mike hodges
Subject: [none]
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Keith, as you have probably already guessed, the AMM members are a pretty outspoken group, and are always willing to lend a bit of helpful advice. check out stitchinscotsman's page. lots of good stuff. Also look at woodenhawks post. Enjoy some fine camaraderie and keep yer powder dry. M
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Keith, as you have probably already guessed, the AMM members are a pretty outspoken group, and are always willing to lend a bit of helpful advice. check out stitchinscotsman's page. lots of good stuff. Also look at woodenhawks post. Enjoy some fine camaraderie and keep yer powder dry. M
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
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Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 09:39:42 -0600
From: "Keith Mitchell"
Subject: MtMan-List: mocs & amm
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Hello=20
thanks for all the info on the mocs seems like I now have a good reason =
for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet but I think I will try the =
double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit I seem to have plenty =
of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I have to brain tan =
up some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know you're =
snail mail address and I will send you a price list I have heard some =
great things about the amm but have been unable to see if I could join =
them I have gotten a few of their publications up to fort Bridger form =
bill Cunningham I thank you again for putting up with my greenhorn =
questions and hope it is not much trouble this will be my first deer and =
elk hunt with my smoke pole so I want to do it as period as possible but =
like emmet heath says don't wait until you got it all or you will never =
start your pilgrims journey emmet helps allot of greenhorns in are =
blackpowder club he wont say but he had something to do with the start =
of fort Bridger thanks again
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Hello
thanks for all the info on the mocs =
seems like I=20
now have a good reason for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet but =
I think=20
I will try the double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit I seem =
to have=20
plenty of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I have to =
brain tan up=20
some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know you're snail =
mail=20
address and I will send you a price list I have heard some great things =
about=20
the amm but have been unable to see if I could join them I have gotten a =
few of=20
their publications up to fort Bridger form bill Cunningham I thank you =
again for=20
putting up with my greenhorn questions and hope it is not much trouble =
this will=20
be my first deer and elk hunt with my smoke pole so I want to do it as =
period as=20
possible but like emmet heath says don't wait until you got it all =
or you=20
will never start your pilgrims journey emmet helps allot of greenhorns =
in are=20
blackpowder club he wont say but he had something to do with the start =
of fort=20
Bridger thanks again
- ------=_NextPart_000_0025_01C476E2.4E814E40--
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:04:41 -0700
From: "RP Lahti"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
BB,
Not a thing you shared do I disagree with. You just went into a lot more
detail than I did. Good on ya.
Capt. Lahti'
- ----------------------
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 22:06:16 -0600 (MDT)
From: beaverboy@sofast.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: footwear
Yeah, whatever.
Don't hyperventilate yourself there Capt. Just admit that you were
wrong.
Good on ya, back at ya.
BB
> BB,
>
> Not a thing you shared do I disagree with. You just went into a lot more
> detail than I did. Good on ya.
>
> Capt. Lahti'
>
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
>
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 11:32:33 -0600
From: "Wynn Ormond"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: mocs & amm
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Keith
I live in Cache Valley so we may play in similar territory. I am a =
horse guy but I still spend plenty of time on the ground in mocs and I =
agree with my friend Tom. The place that my 8 year old son and I wince =
most often are asphalt and gravel roads these generally represent the =
most unforgiving ground to walk on in soft soles. Let me say that if =
you start mixing with this crowd you will see some guys in a single =
layer moc and on up from there. I aint knocking anybody who does =
otherwise but I admire a thin poorly made pair of mocs you have made =
yourself more than the finest pair of fancy store boughts. If you =
health and feet can take it do it.
On padding: a lot of guys make a pair of mocs and sew on a second layer =
to the bottom. I find it less work and more adjustable to make several =
pair and tuck them inside each other as needed. I also am a fan of wool =
as in blanket booties, socks or scraps in the bottom of the moc to =
soften the ground rather than just layers of leather. Especially in =
snow I think you don't really need heavy leather but instead insulation =
inside leather that will dry out over an evening fire.
On style: Once again I am not knocking anybody who does otherwise so =
don't everybody start defending your postions but let me present the =
idea that if you are making new mocs why not do them in the styles that =
are most documentable to your period? I have made side seams out of =
chap leather (thats off a cow). I have seen some thick pucker toes in =
elk and other leathers (Right Rick Williams?).
Kieth those AMM guys in the Poison River Party where you live are =
ornery, opinionated, rothesome, vermin. You would be better off to stay =
away from them, but if you did decide against your better judgement to =
get to know them they are a wealth of knowledge. Tom has a great pucker =
toe pattern. Crazy and Allen are side seam fans. There are some real =
good camps coming up in the next couple of months that you could get =
some exellant help if you wanted it. They might even make good =
customers and be asking you for tanning advise. =20
=20
Wynn Ormond
One of the verminous PRP
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Keith Mitchell=20
To: hist_text@xmission.com=20
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 9:39 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: mocs & amm
Hello=20
thanks for all the info on the mocs seems like I now have a good =
reason for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet but I think I will =
try the double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit I seem to have =
plenty of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I have to =
brain tan up some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know =
you're snail mail address and I will send you a price list I have heard =
some great things about the amm but have been unable to see if I could =
join them I have gotten a few of their publications up to fort Bridger =
form bill Cunningham I thank you again for putting up with my greenhorn =
questions and hope it is not much trouble this will be my first deer and =
elk hunt with my smoke pole so I want to do it as period as possible but =
like emmet heath says don't wait until you got it all or you will never =
start your pilgrims journey emmet helps allot of greenhorns in are =
blackpowder club he wont say but he had something to do with the start =
of fort Bridger thanks again
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Keith
I live in Cache Valley so we may play =
in similar=20
territory. I am a horse guy but I still spend plenty of time on =
the ground=20
in mocs and I agree with my friend Tom. The place that my 8 year =
old son=20
and I wince most often are asphalt and gravel roads these generally =
represent=20
the most unforgiving ground to walk on in soft soles. Let me say =
that if=20
you start mixing with this crowd you will see some guys in a single =
layer moc=20
and on up from there. I aint knocking anybody who does otherwise =
but I=20
admire a thin poorly made pair of mocs you have made yourself more =
than the=20
finest pair of fancy store boughts. If you health and feet can =
take it do=20
it.
On padding: a lot of guys make a pair =
of mocs and=20
sew on a second layer to the bottom. I find it less work and =
more=20
adjustable to make several pair and tuck them inside each other as =
needed. =20
I also am a fan of wool as in blanket booties, socks or scraps in the =
bottom of=20
the moc to soften the ground rather than just layers of leather. =20
Especially in snow I think you don't really need heavy leather but =
instead=20
insulation inside leather that will dry out over an evening=20
fire.
On style: Once again I am not =
knocking=20
anybody who does otherwise so don't everybody start defending your =
postions but=20
let me present the idea that if you are making new mocs why not do them =
in the=20
styles that are most documentable to your period? I have made side =
seams=20
out of chap leather (thats off a cow). I have seen some thick =
pucker toes=20
in elk and other leathers (Right Rick Williams?).
Kieth those AMM guys in the Poison =
River Party=20
where you live are ornery, opinionated, rothesome, vermin. =
You would=20
be better off to stay away from them, but if you did decide against your =
better=20
judgement to get to know them they are a wealth of knowledge. =
Tom has=20
a great pucker toe pattern. Crazy and Allen are side seam=20
fans. There are some real good camps coming up in the next =
couple of=20
months that you could get some exellant help if you wanted =
it. They=20
might even make good customers and be asking you for tanning =
advise. =20
Wynn Ormond
One of the verminous PRP
----- Original Message -----
From:=20
Keith=20
Mitchell
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 =
9:39=20
AM
Subject: MtMan-List: mocs & =
amm
Hello
thanks for all the info on the mocs =
seems like I=20
now have a good reason for trekking more so I can toughen up my feet =
but I=20
think I will try the double sole center seam and shoe packs for a bit =
I seem=20
to have plenty of skins around the throw tannery but I looks like I =
have to=20
brain tan up some moose skins any one that once some skins let me know =
you're=20
snail mail address and I will send you a price list I have heard some =
great=20
things about the amm but have been unable to see if I could join them =
I have=20
gotten a few of their publications up to fort Bridger form bill =
Cunningham I=20
thank you again for putting up with my greenhorn questions and hope it =
is not=20
much trouble this will be my first deer and elk hunt with my smoke =
pole so I=20
want to do it as period as possible but like emmet heath says =
don't wait=20
until you got it all or you will never start your pilgrims journey =
emmet helps=20
allot of greenhorns in are blackpowder club he wont say but he had =
something=20
to do with the start of fort Bridger thanks=20
again
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