From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #148 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, September 29 1998 Volume 01 : Number 148 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:29:48 -0600 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest Hold it guys, What about the three pouches at the Colorado Historical Society, Marino Medina's, Kit Carson's, and Tom Tobin's. How about the pouches at the Museum of the Fur trade, also shown in the "Mountain Man's Sketchbook", Volume Two. At the Western Museum in Durango is another of Tom Tobin's pouches along with his coat shown in "Mountain Man's Sketchbook", Volume One. Look at Madison Grant's "Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book several of those styles can be seen at the Cody Museum, as well as other smaller museums around the country from the very early 1800's to 1850. There's a number of books that touch on the subject, so I'm lost on entries for your contest, when all one has to do is look around. I personally have a good small pistol pouch from the 1830-1850 in style according to the late Charles E. Hanson, Jr. We never thought much of it as both of us have passed on several that sellers have good paperwork on but the prices were too high. To document such an item is a little time and effort, look at the trade gun lots of articles but nothing on the internet, I talked to Charley and now we have a good site for information that is documented. See : http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Same could be done on the pouch as well as other items of this period, with a little work. I would do it but am putting together another site for period travel, equipage, sources and misc. trail information, as well as changing business page at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ When time allows after the first of the year maybe we could all get involved in gathering information on pouches, etc. and build another website. Buck - ---------- > From: Jim Colburn > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest > Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 4:01 PM > > Washtahay- > first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to this. As far > as I have heard, we had NO entries. I don't think anyone really expected > any. Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, and > n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just goes to > show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common use. > Ah, well... > LongWalker c. du B. > At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > >Washtahay- > > We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker c. du B). > >The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large cent, > >and a hand made turkey call. Here are the rules: > > We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as having > >been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target date > >of 1830. Here are the criteria the bag must meet: > > "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the > >Missouri River trade. We should probably include bags in use in the St > >Louis area and west within Missouri. While I would love to hear about the > >bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area. > > "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in > >use in the area defined as "Frontier". By objectively, I mean by > >contemporary records or a chain of evidence. The assignment of dates, for > >example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by > >other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75 > >of KRHP). If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains > >to Rendezvous, great! But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the > >late 1850s isn't what we are looking for. > > The bag must be published or accessible to the public. The folks on the > >list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate it > >for their own purposes. Be prepared to furnish supporting documentation. > > If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, or to the > >list. If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information and it > >takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you still win > >if we can agree the bag meets the criteria. > > Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998. > > > >Let the hunt begin! > > > >LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of lost > >causes > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:40:20 -0600 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: vermillion, bed rolls Allen, Do you still have your big boat? Buck - ---------- > From: Allen Chronister > To: chat > Subject: MtMan-List: vermillion, bed rolls > Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 2:04 AM > > On bed rolls: My current favorite bedding, at > least when I have to carry it all myself, is a > pair of 3 point blankets. > Wes Housler sells un-torn pairs of 3-point > blankets that are woven in Europe. They are just > about the 19th century 3-point size: two complete > blankets woven in one piece end to end, just like > in the old days. The blanket material is thick and > high quality. Come in white with black stripe at > each end or red with same. This is the first time > that un-torn pairs have been available in many > many years, and in the most common 19th century > white w/ black bars pattern. Fold them in half so > that you have two thicknesses, then in half again > on the long side. You then have a nice blanket > envelope and you can put any number of layers > above or below you. > > On vermillion, don't know what else to add, Joe, > that hasn't been stated about what vermillion is. > It has not been available in this country for a > long time because of its toxicity. For a quick > reference on vermillion in the trade see Hanson, > Charles. "A Paper of Vermilion." Mus. Fur Trade > Quarterly, Vol. 7 No. 3 (Fall 1971): Phillips, > E.M. "The Long Story of Vermilion in the Fur > Trade." Mus. Fur Trade Quarterly Vol. 31 No. 1 > (Spring 1995). An interesting aspect of the trade > was how it was shipped, in a variety of > containers, the most familiar being "papers" or > small folded paper packets. Also, however, an > apparently common packing was in small leather > pouches in 1/4 lb. lots. > Allen Chronister ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:49:54 -0400 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest They had a few examples at the MFT in Cadron when I was there... I may have gotten a pix of it... will look... Addison Miller - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Colburn To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 6:39 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest >Washtahay- > first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to this. As far >as I have heard, we had NO entries. I don't think anyone really expected >any. Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, and >n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just goes to >show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common use. > Ah, well... >LongWalker c. du B. >At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Washtahay- >> We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker c. du B). >>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large cent, >>and a hand made turkey call. Here are the rules: >> We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can document as having >>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the target date >>of 1830. Here are the criteria the bag must meet: >> "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the >>Missouri River trade. We should probably include bags in use in the St >>Louis area and west within Missouri. While I would love to hear about the >>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area. >> "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in >>use in the area defined as "Frontier". By objectively, I mean by >>contemporary records or a chain of evidence. The assignment of dates, for >>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by >>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75 >>of KRHP). If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains >>to Rendezvous, great! But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the >>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for. >> The bag must be published or accessible to the public. The folks on the >>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate it >>for their own purposes. Be prepared to furnish supporting documentation. >> If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, or to the >>list. If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information and it >>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you still win >>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria. >> Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998. >> >>Let the hunt begin! >> >>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of lost >>causes >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:42:21 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest I can give photoes of docvumented bags but was holding off to get the real people to provide input==what is wrong with this picture---will post the pictures later this week---hopefully if anyone wants copies will send them direct---I was suposto be a judge---not a entrant--- come on guys lets get the photoes and documentation in----I know i am not the only person who can document a period shooting bag "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:01:47 -0500 Jim Colburn writes: >Washtahay- > first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to >this. As far >as I have heard, we had NO entries. I don't think anyone really >expected >any. Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, >and >n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just >goes to >show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common >use. > Ah, well... >LongWalker c. du B. >At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Washtahay- >> We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker >c. du B). >>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large >cent, >>and a hand made turkey call. Here are the rules: >> We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can >document as having >>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the >target date >>of 1830. Here are the criteria the bag must meet: >> "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, >Texas, or the >>Missouri River trade. We should probably include bags in use in the >St >>Louis area and west within Missouri. While I would love to hear >about the >>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target >area. >> "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as >having been in >>use in the area defined as "Frontier". By objectively, I mean by >>contemporary records or a chain of evidence. The assignment of >dates, for >>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless >supported by >>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp >74-75 >>of KRHP). If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply >trains >>to Rendezvous, great! But the bag used by some famous mountain man >in the >>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for. >> The bag must be published or accessible to the public. The >folks on the >>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate >it >>for their own purposes. Be prepared to furnish supporting >documentation. >> If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, >or to the >>list. If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information >and it >>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you >still win >>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria. >> Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998. >> >>Let the hunt begin! >> >>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of >lost >>causes >> >> >> >> > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:50:21 -0500 From: Jim Colburn Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest Washtahay- At 09:29 PM 9/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hold it guys, NONE of the pouches you mention meet the criteria. As originally set up, those criteria were: "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, Texas, or the Missouri River trade. We should probably include bags in use in the St Louis area and west within Missouri. While I would love to hear about the bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target area. "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as having been in use in the area defined as "Frontier". By objectively, I mean by contemporary records or a chain of evidence. The assignment of dates, for example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless supported by other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp 74-75 of KRHP). If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply trains to Rendezvous, great! But the bag used by some famous mountain man in the late 1850s isn't what we are looking for. Bags "from 1830-1850 in style", bags "assigned" dates due to stylistic details, bags WITHOUT contemporary records or a solid chain of evidence do not qualify. Read the criteria. Without evidence, the bag doesn't qualify. We are not talking "styles" here, we are talking actual pouches. >What about > from the very early 1800's to 1850. Buck, I have examined the documentation of every pouch you cite specifically . NONE of them meet the criteria above. >There's a number of books that touch on the subject, so I'm lost on entries >for your contest, when all one has to do is look around. I personally have >a good small pistol pouch from the 1830-1850 in style according to the late >Charles E. Hanson, Jr. We never thought much of it as both of us have >passed on several that sellers have good paperwork on but the prices were >too high. FWIW, the last letter I got from Charles on this subject was a couple years ago, right before the big hoopla at the MFT. At that time, he said he was still unaware of any hunting pouch that would meet these criteria. > >To document such an item is a little time and effort, look at the trade gun Buck, that was the goal. To document a pouch that was IN the Rocky Mountains, during the 1825-1835 time period. Not a pouch from that time used back east, not a pouch that "MIGHT" have been there-one we can PROVE was there. If you can do it, go for it. And Addison Miller wrote: >They had a few examples at the MFT in Cadron when I was there... I may have >gotten a pix of it... will look... They have examples of bags that, stylistically, might have been in use in the Rockies during the time in question. Have they found any objective proof that any of THOSE particular bags were in use in the Rockies during the time in question? As of 96, they hadn't. LongWalker c. du B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:45:55 -0700 From: "Jerry H. Wheeler" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest hawk went shooting last sun. couldnt hit nothing.bore on rifel was crusted after a few shots near the end of muzzel had a hard time getting a ball down first few inchea then smooth from there on.i know you are a fan of 3f so im going to try it was shooting 2f at 65 in a 45 swamp douglas barrel. patch was well lubed what the heck? iron tongue Michael Pierce wrote: > I can give photoes of docvumented bags but was holding off to get the > real people to provide input==what is wrong with this picture---will post > the pictures later this week---hopefully if anyone wants copies will send > them direct---I was suposto be a judge---not a entrant--- > > come on guys lets get the photoes and documentation in----I know i am not > the only person who can document a period shooting bag > > > "Hawk" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 > 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com > > On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:01:47 -0500 Jim Colburn > writes: > >Washtahay- > > first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to > >this. As far > >as I have heard, we had NO entries. I don't think anyone really > >expected > >any. Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, > >and > >n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just > >goes to > >show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common > >use. > > Ah, well... > >LongWalker c. du B. > >At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Washtahay- > >> We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself (LongWalker > >c. du B). > >>The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large > >cent, > >>and a hand made turkey call. Here are the rules: > >> We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can > >document as having > >>been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the > >target date > >>of 1830. Here are the criteria the bag must meet: > >> "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, > >Texas, or the > >>Missouri River trade. We should probably include bags in use in the > >St > >>Louis area and west within Missouri. While I would love to hear > >about the > >>bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target > >area. > >> "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as > >having been in > >>use in the area defined as "Frontier". By objectively, I mean by > >>contemporary records or a chain of evidence. The assignment of > >dates, for > >>example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless > >supported by > >>other available information (an example being the bag he shows on pp > >74-75 > >>of KRHP). If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply > >trains > >>to Rendezvous, great! But the bag used by some famous mountain man > >in the > >>late 1850s isn't what we are looking for. > >> The bag must be published or accessible to the public. The > >folks on the > >>list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and evaluate > >it > >>for their own purposes. Be prepared to furnish supporting > >documentation. > >> If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, > >or to the > >>list. If you get in under the deadline with preliminary information > >and it > >>takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you > >still win > >>if we can agree the bag meets the criteria. > >> Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998. > >> > >>Let the hunt begin! > >> > >>LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion of > >lost > >>causes > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:07:33 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels had many a good teacher---the young crowd needs to learnb the technique of how to listen and what is common sense---sorry if my posting was a bit crass---but have turned intop0 a real bear the last few years with the over-educated idiots trying to tell me how i should restore a weopen---i still do it the old way and it is always wuality---if i cant restore one that will be quality and appropriate to period i usually tell people to take it somewhere else---it doesnt heasrt my feelings to have someone do a restoration project=---I am slow and meticulus in my work and will only do it the old ways that i have researched for over 40 years---i like my work and only advertise by word of mouth---have never had a dissatisfied customer but again ---if you don't like the time it takes me to do a job - ---take it to someone else-it won't heart my feelings---I have gotten quite hard in my old age---but also have learned what quality ofr workmanship and restoration skill is---sometimes it's several months just to find out where and who made a gun---the problem is to obtain the attitude and the skill of the original builder---i accepted a gun here about a year ago---it was made of beech wood very tight grain and small fleck---obviously a english gun---couldnt get wood---spent over 100 trying to get 2 chuncks of wood that I could use---noo avail---then the owner got mad and said when will i get my gun---I sent him a note and said as soon as i can ship it---no work was started and it will neber be restored by me---enclosed please fins a listing of about 14 or 15 people that do restoration ---contact them if you want the work accomplished---I cannot be held to a exact time span to get your work accomplished--- this seems to be a independent attidude but is not it is a person that will not compromise the craftsmanship to do proper and true restoration---most people that look at my work cannot see where i have made changes ot fixed an original---THIS TAKES A LOT OF TIME AND SKILL--- a lot of people do not want this or even care---only believe in function---just finishing up a h/e. leman---only starteed with a piece of a but plate--made everything else==wish i was the original craftsman---he was good and did a exceptional job---sorry for the verbose BS-- but i sometimes get quite outspoken on the subject of restotation--- NOTE I DID NOT TAKE OFFENSE IN WHAT YOU SAID ---IT EVEN SOUNDED LIKE A COMPLEMENT IN SOME SENSES--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:25:10 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton" writes: >Hawk, > I sure wasn't trying to tell you how to do your business. Just >thought >that story was worth relating. Old Wally and March Coover started >playing >with muzzle loaders shortly after World War II. At that time they >could not >get new barrels, so they had to use and sometimes rework old original >barrels. Surprising enough many of their barrels came from the scrap >yard. >They have told me that many times they would buy a rifle [ which at >that >time could be bought for only a few dollars] just to get a useable >nipple >since they did not have the equipment to make them and no one was >marketing >such goods. Many of those old barrels were still loaded and the one I >was >refering to went off even tho it had spent years in a scrap yard out >in the >weather. > These two gentlemen have been a absolute wealth of information for >many >of us in the North Texas area. They worked partime for a antique gun >dealer >in Dallas begining in the early sixties, restoring guns. Consequently >they >have handled more original guns over the years than most of us will >ever >see in a lifetime. There is hardly a style of gun you can mention that >one >of them has not seen up close. Sadly March Coover passed away earlier >this >year. He will be sorely missed. > I do envy you sir. I dearly wish I had the skill and the opportunity >to >the work that you apparently do. >Pendleton >---------- >> From: Michael Pierce >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Old gun barrels >> Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 10:22 PM >> >> bud--- >> i never check a gun that way--i always check for the length the >ramrod >> goes down the barrel---if it isnt the same length as the end of the >> barrel to the breach or the drum then i consider it loaded---I >restore 15 >> to 20 guns a year and i get about 1/2 of them in the shop that are >> loaded--so i fully understand and know the problem---even got one in >from >> a customer that took it hunting and left it loaded for over 2 >years---I >> popped the breach and wal''llla there was powder and ball---luckey i >> didn't use heat---now i consider all of them loaded until i can get >air >> out of the nipple or the drum---- >> "Hawk" >> Michael Pierce >> 854 Glenfield Dr. >> Palm Harbor, florida 34684 >> 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com >> >> On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:02:14 -0500 "yellow rose/pendleton" >> writes: >> >Hawk, >> > I've been off line for a while so this post is a little late >coming, >> >but >> >here it is. Always check old gun barrels to see if they are loaded. >> >Dropping a steel rod down the bore to listen for a clink to >determine >> >if it >> >is loaded is not always a sure thing. I won't go through the whole >> >story, >> >but I know of one case where a barrel was loaded with a ball >bearing. >> >The >> >man was going to remove the breech plug, it did not want to give up >so >> >he >> >dropped a steel rod down the bore to determine if it was loaded. It > >> >hit >> >bottom with a definite clink so he stuck the breech in his forge to > >> >heat it >> >up some. What happened next was rather spectacular. The thing went >off >> >and >> >the ball bearing bounced off eveything in the shop. When the smoke >> >cleared >> >old Wally crawled out from under his forge unhurt, but scared damn >> >near to >> >death. >> > One word of caution on a different subject all together. If you >> >folks >> >don't have a good surge protector, that includes the modem line, >you >> >would >> >do well to invest in one. Lightning can do wonders for modem. >> >Pendleton >> > >> > >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:14:10 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com (Michael Pierce) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest MAY GET YOU TO POST MY PICTURES--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:29:48 -0600 "Barry Conner" writes: >Hold it guys, > >What about the three pouches at the Colorado Historical Society, >Marino >Medina's, Kit Carson's, and Tom Tobin's. How about the pouches at the >Museum of the Fur trade, also shown in the "Mountain Man's >Sketchbook", >Volume Two. At the Western Museum in Durango is another of Tom Tobin's >pouches along with his coat shown in "Mountain Man's Sketchbook", >Volume >One. Look at Madison Grant's "Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch" book >several of >those styles can be seen at the Cody Museum, as well as other smaller >museums around the country from the very early 1800's to 1850. > >There's a number of books that touch on the subject, so I'm lost on >entries >for your contest, when all one has to do is look around. I personally >have >a good small pistol pouch from the 1830-1850 in style according to the >late >Charles E. Hanson, Jr. We never thought much of it as both of us have >passed on several that sellers have good paperwork on but the prices >were >too high. > >To document such an item is a little time and effort, look at the >trade gun >lots of articles but nothing on the internet, I talked to Charley and >now >we have a good site for information that is documented. >See : http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html > >Same could be done on the pouch as well as other items of this period, >with >a little work. I would do it but am putting together another site for >period travel, equipage, sources and misc. trail information, as well >as >changing business page at : http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ > >When time allows after the first of the year maybe we could all get >involved in gathering information on pouches, etc. and build another >website. > >Buck > >---------- >> From: Jim Colburn >> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & >Contest >> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 4:01 PM >> >> Washtahay- >> first off, let me apologize for the delay in getting back to >this. As >far >> as I have heard, we had NO entries. I don't think anyone really >expected >> any. Obviously, this doesn't mean all of the fur traders, trappers, >and >> n'er-do-wells were running around without a hunting pouch--it just >goes >to >> show how hard it can be to document something we KNOW was in common >use. > >> Ah, well... >> LongWalker c. du B. >> At 09:49 AM 8/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >Washtahay- >> > We have our judges-John Kramer, Hawk, and myself >(LongWalker c. du B). >> >The prize pool has grown to a rum horn, horn cup, a pre-1840 large >cent, >> >and a hand made turkey call. Here are the rules: >> > We want to locate an original hunting pouch that we can >document as >having >> >been in use on the frontier in the years 1825 to 1835, with the >target >date >> >of 1830. Here are the criteria the bag must meet: >> > "Frontier" is defined as Rocky Mountains, Santa Fe trade, >Texas, or the >> >Missouri River trade. We should probably include bags in use in >the St >> >Louis area and west within Missouri. While I would love to hear >about >the >> >bags in use in the North during this time, that isn't the target >area. >> > "Document" is defined as being able to objectively date as >having been >in >> >use in the area defined as "Frontier". By objectively, I mean by >> >contemporary records or a chain of evidence. The assignment of >dates, >for >> >example Madison Grant's "ca 1820-1840" does NOT count, unless >supported >by >> >other available information (an example being the bag he shows on >pp >74-75 >> >of KRHP). If you can come up with a bag that went with the supply >trains >> >to Rendezvous, great! But the bag used by some famous mountain man >in >the >> >late 1850s isn't what we are looking for. >> > The bag must be published or accessible to the public. The >folks on >the >> >list must have some way of accessing the bag, to examine and >evaluate it >> >for their own purposes. Be prepared to furnish supporting >documentation. >> > If you find the bag, submit the information to me directly, >or to the >> >list. If you get in under the deadline with preliminary >information and >it >> >takes a while for the judges' committee to reach a decision, you >still >win >> >if we can agree the bag meets the criteria. >> > Deadline for submission is 7 September 1998. >> > >> >Let the hunt begin! >> > >> >LongWalker c. du B., tilter at windmills, and occasional champion >of >lost >> >causes >> > >> > >> > >> > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:13:06 +0100 From: Allen Chronister Subject: MtMan-List: B Connor You asked if I still had my big boat. Never did have one. A guy nearby built an industrial strength boat a few years back that we used a time or two on the Missouri, but it was never mine. Wish I did have one. There's not much to beat sailing down the Missouri in a big wood boat. Allen Chronister ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:13:37 -0400 From: sean@naplesnet.com (Addison O. Miller) Subject: MtMan-List: Parts needed I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a lock... Can someone give me a starting place? I've tried Thunder Ridge, but can get no response from them... Many Thanks Addison Miller ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:53:09 -0500 From: "Colleen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed > I have a Traditions .50 cal Hawken that I want to convert to a flinter. I > can find the touchhole lines, no problem, but I need a source to a lock... > Can someone give me a starting place? I've tried Thunder Ridge, but can get > no response from them... Try: Track of the Wolf PO Box 6 Osseo, MN 55369 612-424-2500 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:41:26 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: MtMan-List: Hall Carbine Who out there knows where one may procure a repro Hall Carbine. Info on vendors and prices appreciated. TIA HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:38:31 EDT From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Parts needed Here are some hyperlinks: Shooter's Resources Track of the Wolf, Inc. TVM In addition to these direct links, also try Don Eads Muzzleloaders Supplies. 16075 Hwy 22 N, Lexington, Tennessee 38351. phone (901) 967-0803 fax (901) 967-5002 For looking at their catalog, they have at just about every part known to man. yhs, GunShot ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:20:15 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest Great the letter shows up on Sept. 29,1998 with a dead line of Sept 7, 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:20:50 -0500 From: Jim Colburn Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Great 1830 Hunting Pouch Search & Contest Washtahay- At 05:20 PM 9/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >Great the letter shows up on Sept. 29,1998 with a dead line of Sept 7, 1998 The original post starting the contest was on 7/28. Deadline was extended to 9/7 on 8/13. Anything else? LongWalker c. du B. ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #148 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.