From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #156 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, October 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 156 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:52:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cannons amongst John Works Snake Expedition 31-32 On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Sam Keller wrote: > Are you sure that you have the right date? > ---Lee Newbill wrote: > > Came across a reference about a cannon bursting during a skirmish > > between John Work's Snake expedition and a band from the Blackfeet > tribe. > > > > Date is about Jan 30 1932. Finally found the info again.... "At break of day on January 30, the camp was attacked by a strong party of three hundred Blackfeet, who were repulsed after hard fighting. The cannon burst at the third discharge, but fortunately no one was injured." The quote is taken from a mid 30's master thesis, and refers to Work's 1831-1832 Snake expedition. Additionally, in the same paper..... Found a reference to a "brass three pounder" taken on expedition by Alexander Ross in 1824... so, I am now suspecting it is one and the same gun.... now I'm just curious as to what a brass three pounder looks like and how was it moved through the rough country... I know the US army in later years would dissasemble thier mountain howitzers and pack 'em on mules.... did the boys from HBC do the same? Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:04:14 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux John, I posted the following to your personal e-mail but it bounced back. How's the house? Surely the roof's on by now. Will you make it by winter? It's getting closer and closer? What else is new? All's well here. Saw your post about Robidoux. There's a biography of him in Hafen's Mountain Men and the Fur Trade, Vol. VIII, (written by David Weber) as well as another dozen or so entries throughout the series. David Weber writes quite a bit about him in "The Taos Trapper." (By the way, Weber is the keynote speaker for the fur trade symposium coming up in Stockton this April) He crops up here and there in various other sources but those two may be the most extensive, especially the Hafen article. Let me know if you want copies of these. If the list turns up anyting that looks goo, let me know and if I've got it on the shelf, I can send copies of that too. Jim Hardee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:04:12 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Charles Courtin?? Kurt, As David Mullen said, Hafen's "Mountain Men and the Fur Trade of the Far West," Vol. III conatins a biography of David Thompson that mentions the same infor regarding Courter as the Nisbit inof you already have. This article is by Alvin Josephy and the paragraph footnotes another book by Josephy titled "The Nez Perce Indians and the Opening of the Northwest," page 46, and 660-63. It is not clear that this refernece pertains to Courter but if your local library has the Nez Perce book, you may find a lead. Moulton's "The Journals of Lews and Clark" also mentions Courtin in Vol. 2 (very briefly) and 3. Moulton cites Donald Jackson's "The letters of the Lewis and Clark Expedition," pg. 2 & 437n; Ernest Osgood's "The Field notes of Captain William Clark," pg. 136n & 6; and the same Josephy "Nez Perce" book mentioned above. Moulton refers to Courtin "apparently" reaching the Three Forks and western Montana. Vol. 8 of Moulton has a fair amount more on pages 158n, 288, 289n, 360 and 360n but the same references as above are noted. Looks like Lewis and Clark ran into him on the way west (Sept 14 and 15, 1804) and several times on the way back. Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) (530)283-5171 FAX Casapy123@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:08:35 +0000 From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ) Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Waxing gourds Gail, I do not fill the gourds all the way. I pour some in and swish it around, repeat until satisfied. There was a letter in hereawhile ago, and it sounded like the fellow filled, then emptied. Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:32:31 -0700 From: "Gail Carbiener" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux Jim: Sorry for butting in but can you give more details on the fur trade event in Stockton next April that you mentioned? Is this the same event that was in Pinedale, WY couple years ago? Gail Carbiener ============================================= - -----Original Message----- From: Casapy123@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 9:05 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux >John, > >I posted the following to your personal e-mail but it bounced back. > >How's the house? Surely the roof's on by now. Will you make it by winter? >It's getting closer and closer? What else is new? All's well here. > >Saw your post about Robidoux. There's a biography of him in Hafen's Mountain >Men and the Fur Trade, Vol. VIII, (written by David Weber) as well as another >dozen or so entries throughout the series. David Weber writes quite a bit >about him in "The Taos Trapper." (By the way, Weber is the keynote speaker >for the fur trade symposium coming up in Stockton this April) He crops up here >and there in various other sources but those two may be the most extensive, >especially the Hafen article. Let me know if you want copies of these. If >the list turns up anyting that looks goo, let me know and if I've got it on >the shelf, I can send copies of that too. > >Jim Hardee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:51:03 EDT From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ceran St. Vrain YEP thats me........I have been researching the St Vrains and Ceran for the family for about two years now. Been hitting St. Louis, all over New Mexico and Colorado.....hope to go to New Orleans......email me at EmmaPeel2@aol.com and let me know what you are looking for. I have a reprint of Paul St Vrains article :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:00:24 -0500 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: North American Voyageur Council For any one interested in the North American Voyageur Council, our group is hoisting the fall gathering. I have put to gether a webpage at my site, URL is: http://reality.sgi.com/jal/navc/navc.html Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue |Flambeau Rivere Voyageurs \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |___| http://reality.sgi.com/jal/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:56:36 -0600 (CST) From: mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU (Henry B. Crawford) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Waxing gourds >To all: > Do I understand you correctly that when you wax gourds that you "fill it >up to the top" with melted wax, then pour it out, repeat a couple of times? >Rather than swirl the wax. >Gail Carbiener I've done it both ways, but I found that filling and pouring assures that all inner surfaces are covered. Rotate as you pour so you cover all the inner surfaces near the opening. I usually fill and pour three times. That's the method that works for me. HBC ***************************************** Henry B. Crawford Curator of History mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Museum of Texas Tech University 806/742-2442 Box 43191 FAX 742-1136 Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 WEBSITE: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because it's there! ******* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:01:16 -0600 From: "Sickler, Louis L" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: re: MtMan-list Terry, Yes, freezing them is okay. I've done that if I buy the brains and = can't use them right away. Haven't seen any difference from tanning solution made = from fresh brains. I don't know about the shelf-life (freezer-life) of prepared brain = solution. I've always used it as soon as it cools. I've heard others say reuse = the solution, but I don't do more than one hide at a time, and at sometimes great intervals, so I don't save the solution once I've softened the = hide sufficiently. Hope this helps a little Red Coyote > ---------- > From: Terry Landis > ok real quick like, if you brain tan with cow brains can you freeze = them > before use? also how long will a tan sol. keep? > =A0Terry Landis >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 03:18:38 -0500 From: MacRaith@mail.swbell.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: The Scottish - --------------427ACD31FC5B59E77CBEDE04 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PDS Golf Course wrote: > John, > I'd like to know more on the Scots in the Fur Trade as well. Can you keep > me up on what you find, I'll do the same. > Jon Bollin AMM #1639 Sure thing. Heh. Can't go wrong with an AMM on your side. Anyway, so far some of the more helpful/reliable stuff I've found includes: Sketchbook 56, Vol. I - Rogers Rangers By: Ted Spring Sketchbook 56, Vol. III - The Highlanders & provincial Rangers By: Ted Spring The Scots By: Linda Byrd The Scottish Clans & Their Tartans. 1896. 41st ed. Johnston & Bacon Ltd. Edinburgh & London. (I've only been able to find this one at libraries, but it's worth a read.) The Men-At-Arms series has Highland Clansman 1689-1746 & 18th Century Highlanders, it's a little early for the period, but they still have some relevant information & some great illustrations. The History Channel did a movie entitled Battle of the Clans ...I think. Most of the show covered early eras & the Jacobite revolution, but it was still a great show. & I've found a few web sites that were pretty good, but they didn't have anything more than general information, or stuff that I already knew. If you're interested in the addresses, let me know & I'll see if I can find them. ...I was beginning to think I was the only guy interested in this subject. Nice to know there's other folks out there that're interested too. John David Scott ...or as everyone except my mother calls me, Turtle - --------------427ACD31FC5B59E77CBEDE04 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PDS Golf Course wrote:
John,
I'd like to know more on the Scots in the Fur Trade as well.  Can you keep
me up on what you find, I'll do the same.
Jon Bollin  AMM #1639
 

Sure thing.  Heh.  Can't go wrong with an AMM on your side.  Anyway, so far some of the more helpful/reliable stuff I've found includes:
 
    Sketchbook 56, Vol. I  -  Rogers Rangers
        By: Ted Spring
    Sketchbook 56, Vol. III - The Highlanders & provincial Rangers
        By: Ted Spring
    The Scots
        By:  Linda Byrd
    The Scottish Clans & Their Tartans.  1896.  41st ed.
        Johnston & Bacon Ltd.  Edinburgh & London.
        (I've only been able to find this one at libraries, but it's worth a read.)

    The Men-At-Arms series has Highland Clansman 1689-1746 & 18th Century Highlanders, it's a little early for the period, but they still have some relevant information & some great illustrations.

    The History Channel did a movie entitled Battle of the Clans ...I think.  Most of the show covered early eras & the Jacobite revolution, but it was still a great show.

    & I've found a few web sites that were pretty good, but they didn't have anything more than general information, or stuff that I already knew.  If you're interested in the addresses, let me know & I'll see if I can find them.

    ...I was beginning to think I was the only guy interested in this subject.  Nice to know there's other folks out there that're interested too.
 
 
    John David Scott
        ...or as everyone except my mother calls me,
    Turtle
 
 
 
  - --------------427ACD31FC5B59E77CBEDE04-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:28:47 -0700 From: Longtrail Subject: Re: MtMan-List: re: MtMan-list > ok real quick like, if you brain tan with cow brains can you freeze >them before use? also how long will a tan sol. keep? Terry Landis Yes you can freeze the brains. We buy ours in bulk at $1.69 per pound. They are packaged individually which makes it convenient. Also keep in mind that once you have started your hide you can also freeze it during any stage and take it out and start up again at that same step. Longtrail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:58:25 +0000 From: Joseph Miller Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ceran St. Vrain Hi Emma, Saw you have been researching St. Vrains. On my http://www.Colorado-Mall.com web site in the Historical Section I have a spot reserved for the St. Vrain Fort which was located about 20 miles from my residence. If you have any info on it and would like to write up an article or send me the info to write about the fort I sure would appreciate it. Then I could get that fort section up and running. Thanks in advance, Joe Miller - -- Friends of Bill W. and Dr. Bob, Welcome! To be Happy, Joyous and Free Joseph Miller, Webmaster http://www.Colorado-Mall.com For information on leasing mall space E-mail: leasing@Colorado-Mall.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:14:09 -0700 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Waxing gourds Gail, My 2 bits on this, I've had some small experience growing and making water gourds and I found years ago that one needs to be careful that your bees wax/parafin is hot enough when it goes into the gourd to penetrate the walls of the gourd a bit. It is also important that you not get too much wax inside or you run the risk of the wax pealing off, which you will know is happening if you have little sheets of wax coming out in the water. It is VERY IMPORTANT to get all the inner flesh out of the gourd before you proceed with the waxing since this can be the cause of, and impart the bad taste that can develop in some gourds. When I am removing the flesh, after shaking out as much seed etc. as possible, I fill the gourd with water for a day or so until the flesh starts to get a bit slimy and then the flesh seems to flush out quit completely. It's kind of like hairing hides and you have to be about as careful to avoid spoilage as you would doing hides, not quit but almost as careful. I then will let the gourd dry very thoroughly and proceed with the waxing. A couple of good washes with hot wax seems to do the trick. It is not necessary to fill the gourd with wax, maybe less than a quarter full will do. Pour in the hot wax, put in the cork and CAREFULLY rotate the gourd to coat all inner surfaces. Hot wax may try to squirt out around the cork thus the caution to be carful. Finally pour off the wax back into your heating container to be used on the next one. A final couple of safety points. Wax can be harmful to your lungs, especially Bee's wax so it is a good idea to wear a dust mask or better yet do the wax heating job out side so as not to concentrate the fumes that will be given off. Use gloves, let the gourd get very hot and don't let the wax puddle in the bottom. The gourd may need to be freshened up in a season or two but just make sure it is dry and repeat the waxing procedure. Added to what else has been offered by others, I hope this helps and I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' RANDAL J BUBLITZ wrote: > Gail, I do not fill the gourds all the way. I pour some in and swish it > around, repeat until satisfied. There was a letter in hereawhile ago, > and it sounded like the fellow filled, then emptied. Hardtack > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:04:43 EDT From: Casapy123@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fur Trade Symposium Gail, The Jedediah Smith Society and the John Muir Center for Regional Studies are sponsoring the 51st California History Institue Conference on April 23-25, 1999, at the University of the Pacific in Stockton, CA. The title is "Jedediah Smith and the Fur Trade Era." While it is not the same as what was in Pinedale, it will be quite similar. The keynote speaker is David Weber, author of "Taos Trappers" and "Californios vs. Jedediah Smith." Proposal for research papers will be acepted until Nov. 15, 1998. If you have a paper to submit, send it to Program Committee, Professor Ron Limbaugh, Department of History, University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA 95211. Phone is (209)946-2895, e-mail is johnmuir@uop.edu. Let me know if I can help you out in any other wat regarding the symposium. Hope to see you (and others from this list) there! Jim Hardee, AMM#1676 P.O. Box 1228 Quincy, CA 95971 (530)283-4566 (H) (530)283-3330 (W) 9530)283-5171 FAX CAsapy123@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:45:31 -0700 (PDT) From: zaslow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: re: MtMan-list Yes Terry, you can freeze them and use them anytime. I have has some from about a year ago and they were fine when I defrosted them recently. If you need any help braintanning, just drop me a line; I've done a bit. Best Regards, Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:47:38 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: re: MtMan-list To change the subject but are there any record that anyone knows of, a female trapper/mountain man during this era. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:13:48 -0700 From: glonjon1@juno.com (John C. Funk) Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Louis Robidoux You're right. It is info on Louis R. and not Antoine I'm hunting for. Specifically, was Louis ever married? If so (and I suspect he was) to whom and when? I do know that he spent most of his life from about 1840 something until his death in ? in what is now San bernardino County, CA, and was one of the first of that County's Supervisors. Much is written about both Louis and Antoine, but I can't find a record of Louis' marriage or death date. If you have any info to shed some light on this I'd sure appreciate it! - Many thanks - John's dad, also John C. Funk - --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: j2hearts@juno.com (John C Funk) To: glonjon1@juno.com Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:11:57 -0700 Subject: NaugaMok@aol.com: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux Message-ID: <19981013.165729.3974.2.j2hearts@juno.com> - --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: NaugaMok@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Antoine Robidoux Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:28:28 EDT Message-ID: <25428db5.3622bacc@aol.com> In a message dated 98-10-12 02:26:10 EDT, you write: << If you would like information about Mr. Robidoux, you might want to contact Dan Deuter at Ft. Uncompaghre in Delta Colorado. The phone number of the Fort is (970) 874-8349. This is good information, but it's for Antoine. I thought John was looking for info on Louis. From what I've read of Antoine, when he closed Ft Uncompagre, he returned to Missouri instead of going to California like Louis evidently did. Maybe Antoine DID wind up being the Robidoux John is looking for, but it was my understanding Antoine wound up in St Joseph Mo where there's a hotel named for him -- or there used to be. NM - --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #156 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.