: > To: ammlist@mail.xmission.com
: > Subject: AMM-List: aluminum
: > Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:37 AM
: >
: > Mr Kramer just brought up a subject that I have been interested in
: > because of its current availability. Aluminum. Several years ago I
read
: > that a General George Washington, revolution war era, had a cook set of
: > aluminum. Seems I also read the a Mr. Stewart took a set of aluminum
: > cook ware with him West of the Mississippi River when he went. Does
: > anyone have the exact documentation on this subject, or did my memory
: > totally fail me on this one?
: >
: > Thank you for your assistance.
: >
: > Tim Austin #1564
: >
: > --------------------
: > Aux Ailments de Pays!
:
: --------------------
: Aux Ailments de Pays!
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE0AE1.AAE05320
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Paul J. I also hope someone can come up =
some references for George Washington's cook ware Now days it =
takes electric power to make aluminum I am union pipe welder by trade =
and I worked with an old welder who could weld aluminum with a torch. =
But me it took a Tig welder. But I can do magic with a Tig =
torch. I am going to also send this to the Hist-list. Later =
Jon T
----------
: From: Paul Jacobson <cougar95@lightspeed.net>
: To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com
: Subject: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
: Date: =
Saturday, November 07, 1998 1:39 PM
:
: These are interesting =
questions...I hope someone knows the answer and will
: include it =
here. I can't add a thing of real value, except that my =
mother,
: bless her memory, got a set of aluminum cook ware for a =
wedding present in
: the late 20's/early 30's. Rumor was the =
aluminum would poison the cook,
: but her South Dakota good sense =
thought that silly. I still have 'em, and
: the big pan makes =
damn good popcorn. It has since I was little watching
: Wallace =
Berry on our first TV.
:
: Cougar Heart
: Paul Jacobson =
#1597
: ----------
: > From: WIDD-Tim Austin <AustinT@silltcmd-smtp.army.mil>
: > To: ammlist@mail.xmission.com
: > Subject: AMM-List: aluminum
: > Date: =
Friday, November 06, 1998 6:37 AM
: >
: > Mr Kramer just =
brought up a subject that I have been interested in
: > because of =
its current availability. Aluminum. Several years ago I =
read
: > that a General George Washington, revolution war era, had =
a cook set of
: > aluminum. Seems I also read the a Mr. =
Stewart took a set of aluminum
: > cook ware with him West of the =
Mississippi River when he went. Does
: > anyone have the =
exact documentation on this subject, or did my memory
: > totally =
fail me on this one?
: >
: > Thank you for your =
assistance.
: >
: > Tim Austin #1564
: >
: > =
- --------------------
: > Aux Ailments de Pays!
:
: =
- --------------------
: Aux Ailments de Pays!
- ------=_NextPart_000_01BE0AE1.AAE05320--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 23:32:05 GMT
From: mwhaught@netwalk.com (Mike Haught)
Subject: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?
I noticed the note regarding the lock question for the Cabela's
flintlock. I have considered purchasing this gun for my first
flinter.
I have been told that the lock for this gun would not be historically
accurate for reenacting the Virginia/Ohio frontiersman/settler of the
1780s through 1810. =20
I'd like to ask the opinion of the resident experts here whether this
gun would be a good first time flinter purchase.
Thanks.
-mwh
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 16:34:30 -0600
From: John Kramer
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
Jon T.
The only attributed cookware of George Washington's, I am aware of, is
pictured
in "Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution"=A0
George C.
Neumann and Frank J. Kravic=A0 ISBN 0-8117-0394-0
Page 94 shows the cook kit with plates, platters and pots all in tin.=A0=A0=
The
confusion may result from the top of the Washington Monument being capped in
aluminum (the most expensive metal at the time it was built).
It is unlikely any early cookware was made of metal more valuable than gold.
I'm still digging for an exact date but, if memory serves to something noted
long ago in passing; the first aluminum was made somewhere in the late=
1850's.
John...
At 06:33 AM 11/8/98 -0800, you wrote:=20
>
> Paul J. I also hope someone can come up some references for George
> Washington's =A0cook ware Now days it takes electric power to make=
aluminum I
> am union pipe welder by trade and I worked with an old welder who could=
weld
> aluminum with a torch. =A0But me it took a Tig welder. =A0But I can do mag=
ic
with
> a Tig torch. =A0I am going to also send this to the Hist-list. =A0Later=
Jon T=20
>
> ----------
> : From: Paul Jacobson
> : To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com
> : Subject: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
> : Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 1:39 PM
> :=20
> : These are interesting questions...I hope someone knows the answer and=
will
> : include it here. =A0I can't add a thing of real value, except that my
mother,
> : bless her memory, got a set of aluminum cook ware for a wedding present=
in
> : the late 20's/early 30's. =A0Rumor was the aluminum would poison the=
cook,
> : but her South Dakota good sense thought that silly. =A0I still have 'em,=
and
> : the big pan makes damn good popcorn. =A0It has since I was little=
watching
> : Wallace Berry on our first TV.
> :=20
> : Cougar Heart
> : Paul Jacobson #1597
> : ----------
> : > From: WIDD-Tim Austin
> : > To: ammlist@mail.xmission.com
> : > Subject: AMM-List: aluminum
> : > Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:37 AM
> : >=20
> : > Mr Kramer just brought up a subject that I have been interested in
> : > because of its current availability. =A0Aluminum. =A0Several years ago=
I
read
> : > that a General George Washington, revolution war era, had a cook set=
of
> : > aluminum. =A0Seems I also read the a Mr. Stewart took a set of=
aluminum
> : > cook ware with him West of the Mississippi River when he went. =A0Does
> : > anyone have the exact documentation on this subject, or did my memory
> : > totally fail me on this one?
> : >=20
> : > Thank you for your assistance.
> : >=20
> : > Tim Austin #1564
> : >=20
> : > --------------------
> : > Aux Ailments de Pays!
> :=20
> : --------------------
> : Aux Ailments de Pays!
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0
Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<
mail to: =20
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:08:58 EST
From: Grantd9@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?
If it is the Blue Ridge rifle that yall are talking about, I would caution
against it. I bought one about a year ago and have had nothing but trouble.
Pedersoli makes this gun for cabelas and all though I have heard that
Pedersoli guns are pretty good quality, the ones sold through Cabela's are a
lesser grade. I have had lots of ignition problems and had a gunsmith look at
the lock and frizzen. He told me that the frizzen was of low carbon steel and
that the lock geometry was off. I spoke with one of Pedersoli's distributors
and he said that he has seen lots of problems with the cabelas guns. His
thought was that there is a reason they can sell them for less, like maybe
they take the reject locks or something. Anyway, that is my opinion and is
worth what you paid for it. But for my first flinter, it was nothing but
frustrating.
Grant
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:48:19 EST
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Flinters (was Cabela's Flintlock)
just a note about the cheaper Cabela's as a "first flinter". You are headed
for trouble. If your first one has the best barrel and lock you can afford, it
may be your last one too. A well built rifle (quality barrel and lock) will
outlast you, and will, with proper care, become an heirloom, just as they have
for generations. Your first rifle is NOT the place to scrimp on quality, as
the frustration of a poor shooting barrel or undependable lock will never be
worth what you saved on the gun. Just an opinion. YHS Shootz Himself
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 17:32:11 -0800
From: Roger Lahti
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?
Dick,
I would say that the right side of a river is the right side when looking up
stream. On the Columbia R. and as you inter port from seaward whether moving up
stream or not, the right side of the channel will be marked with red buoys and
the left with green buoys after you are far enough up the channel to be under
Inland Rules. Thus the law of the sea says that the right side of the river is to
your right as you move inland. Not to say that there are no other traditions but
this is what I would put my money on.
Now I can foresee a situation when running a river where you and others are
paddling independently and one fellow canoeist says he will make camp on the
right bank. If you are going down stream you better ask him which he considers
the right bank. I remain....
YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
Rkleinx2@aol.com wrote:
> Please clarify this for me.
> When someone writes or says that something is on the right side of a river is
> he refering to looking up or downstream?
> Thanks.
> Dick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:00:54 EST
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
From the Hutchinson Encyclopedia:
History - Aluminium was first discovered by Humphry Davy 1807 and first
produced 1827 by Hans Oersted, who fused potassium with the anhydrous chlo=
ride
of aluminium in a closed crucible, obtaining the metal in the form of a gr=
ey
powder. Afterwards Friedrich W=F6hler improved this method and succeeded i=
n
procuring the metal in a purer form in fused globules and in determining i=
ts
relative density. However, no easy way could be found to produce it, and t=
he
shiny new metal became more precious than gold. Napoleon is said to have h=
ad a
set of aluminium cutlery made for his most honoured guests. I am looking f=
or
more source documents now, but to the best of my recollection, the first
recorded use of aluminum WAS for cutlery and cookware, made for Napoleon, =
not
Washington. It WAS the most expensive metal in the world, and was chosen =
for
his Field Marshals for that reason. Aluminum (the element Al, atomic # 13)=
,
has been used since antiquity. As soon as I can find more details, I will
provide them. YHS, Shootz Himself
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:18:21 -0600
From: "Lanney Ratcliff"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?
The U.S.Army Corps of Engineers says upstream. That's good enough for me.
Lanney Ratcliff
- -----Original Message-----
From: Rkleinx2@aol.com
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 2:48 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: direction?
>Please clarify this for me.
>When someone writes or says that something is on the right side of a river
is
>he refering to looking up or downstream?
>Thanks.
> Dick
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:46:11 -0600
From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?
why do people think that cheep is better------you get what you pay
for---most production guns from itally or spain are junk and darn few of
them are worth taking inside the house to keep the rain from making them
a pile of rusted junk---if you prise your limbs you will get something
that is worth shooting and not a wall hanger----why do you guys want this
trash---
HAWK
MICHAEL PIERCE
1-813-771-1815
E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com
On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:08:58 EST Grantd9@aol.com writes:
>If it is the Blue Ridge rifle that yall are talking about, I would
>caution
>against it. I bought one about a year ago and have had nothing but
>trouble.
>Pedersoli makes this gun for cabelas and all though I have heard that
>Pedersoli guns are pretty good quality, the ones sold through Cabela's
>are a
>lesser grade. I have had lots of ignition problems and had a gunsmith
>look at
>the lock and frizzen. He told me that the frizzen was of low carbon
>steel and
>that the lock geometry was off. I spoke with one of Pedersoli's
>distributors
>and he said that he has seen lots of problems with the cabelas guns.
>His
>thought was that there is a reason they can sell them for less, like
>maybe
>they take the reject locks or something. Anyway, that is my opinion
>and is
>worth what you paid for it. But for my first flinter, it was nothing
>but
>frustrating.
>
>Grant
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:36:42 -0600
From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Who makes the lock
WHAT GUN DID YOU GET---THEY HAVE SEVERAL 54 CAL---YOUR AMOUNT OF INPUT
WILL DETURMINE THE AMOUNT OF RESPONSE---SMALL INPUT GETS SMALL
RESPONSE---LIKE NONE---LET US KNOW MORE INFO AND WE CAN HELP===
HAWK
MICHAEL PIERCE
1-813-771-1815
E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com
On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:47:41 -0600 "JOHNNY RUTLEDGE"
writes:
>Hello List:
>
> Got a new cabelas 54 flintlock and was wanting to know were I
>could get
>an extra lock for it. does any one in the USA make a lock that will
>fit it
>without carving on the stock. who makes the lock for the
>Manufacture.
>
> thanks LONE_WOLF
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:48:11 -0600
From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: First Flinters (was Cabela's Flintlock)
i second the motion ---and totally agree---junk is junk--trash is
trash---and quality will save your life---
HAWK
MICHAEL PIERCE
1-813-771-1815
E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com
On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:48:19 EST RR1LA@aol.com writes:
>just a note about the cheaper Cabela's as a "first flinter". You are
>headed
>for trouble. If your first one has the best barrel and lock you can
>afford, it
>may be your last one too. A well built rifle (quality barrel and
>lock) will
>outlast you, and will, with proper care, become an heirloom, just as
>they have
>for generations. Your first rifle is NOT the place to scrimp on
>quality, as
>the frustration of a poor shooting barrel or undependable lock will
>never be
>worth what you saved on the gun. Just an opinion. YHS Shootz Himself
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:51:44 -0600
From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: direction?
as dumb as i am i always was tought that when giving directions on a
river or body of water you looked up stream or toward the current---that
maked the right side the right side no mater what----look upstream---and
your right hand is on your right side---
HAWK
MICHAEL PIERCE
1-813-771-1815
E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com
On Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:18:21 -0600 "Lanney Ratcliff"
writes:
>The U.S.Army Corps of Engineers says upstream. That's good enough for
>me.
>Lanney Ratcliff
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rkleinx2@aol.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 2:48 PM
>Subject: MtMan-List: direction?
>
>
>>Please clarify this for me.
>>When someone writes or says that something is on the right side of a
>river
>is
>>he refering to looking up or downstream?
>>Thanks.
>> Dick
>>
>>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 01:41:01 -0600
From: hawknest4@juno.com (michael pierce)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?
IF THE LOCK WOULD NOT BE ACCURATE THEN THE GUN WOULD NOT BE CORRECT---WHY
DONT YOU LOOK AT A TRIDITIONAL MAKER---OR SOMETHING THAT IS HISTORICALLY
CORRECT---OR PERIOD CORRECT---END OF SUBJECT----
HAWK
MICHAEL PIERCE
1-813-771-1815
E-MAIL ADDRESS==hawknest4@juno.com
On Sun, 08 Nov 1998 23:32:05 GMT mwhaught@netwalk.com (Mike Haught)
writes:
>I noticed the note regarding the lock question for the Cabela's
>flintlock. I have considered purchasing this gun for my first
>flinter.
>
>I have been told that the lock for this gun would not be historically
>accurate for reenacting the Virginia/Ohio frontiersman/settler of the
>1780s through 1810. =20
>
>I'd like to ask the opinion of the resident experts here whether this
>gun would be a good first time flinter purchase.
>
>Thanks.
>
> -mwh
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:55:46 -0700
From: "Barry Conner"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
I have welded aluminum with a torch since 1955, no big deal on 3/16 inch and
heavier pieces, used to weld many lawnmower decks for Toro and Lawn Boy
dealers, seems metal blades crack those decks when the blade hits the water
meter cap in the yard. Found the real problem was most of the time a teen
age kid was doing the mowing, and the quickier the mower quit, the quicker
they got to go play.
Anyway, "Utechic Corp." were the ones that came out with a rod with special
flux that made the job of welding aluminum a piece of cake. We kept it quite
for some time and got all the "special hard to do jobs". HA
As for Washington's Cook Set at Valley Forge, that one is made of tin of a
fine craftsman, got to handle it a few times when our next door neighbor was
involved at the museum there, Adrmiral Vernon L. Bigsby, retired, is the one
that took the pictures of the pieces of a copper canteen found at one of the
bunker sites (a mound of dirt) in Valley Forge Park, (I called him about the
canteen because of the usual inquires that we have all seen, "is it or isn't
correct" - Peter Gobel was going crazy as were several others in the
tin/copperware business, plus "were they available" - reason for calling),
this was just four or five years ago, the was question as to being correct
for the F&I boys by one of the National groups looking over that period
would not OK them.
Oh, some of the brothers were asking about locations of different rendezvous
sites, how close or accurate is the information in "Landmarks Of The Rocky
Mountain Fur Trade" by Pierce Olson!
Hope this helps on Washington's Cook Set and welding aluminum.
Buck
Aux Ailments de Pays!
_______________________
- -----Original Message-----
From: John Kramer
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Cc: ammlist@lists.xmission.com
Date: Sunday, November 08, 1998 4:38 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
Jon T.
The only attributed cookware of George Washington's, I am aware of, is
pictured
in "Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution"
George C.
Neumann and Frank J. Kravic ISBN 0-8117-0394-0
Page 94 shows the cook kit with plates, platters and pots all in tin. The
confusion may result from the top of the Washington Monument being capped in
aluminum (the most expensive metal at the time it was built).
It is unlikely any early cookware was made of metal more valuable than gold.
I'm still digging for an exact date but, if memory serves to something noted
long ago in passing; the first aluminum was made somewhere in the late
1850's.
John...
At 06:33 AM 11/8/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
> Paul J. I also hope someone can come up some references for George
> Washington's cook ware Now days it takes electric power to make aluminum I
> am union pipe welder by trade and I worked with an old welder who could
weld
> aluminum with a torch. But me it took a Tig welder. But I can do magic
with
> a Tig torch. I am going to also send this to the Hist-list. Later Jon T
>
> ----------
> : From: Paul Jacobson
> : To: ammlist@lists.xmission.com
> : Subject: Re: AMM-List: aluminum
> : Date: Saturday, November 07, 1998 1:39 PM
> :
> : These are interesting questions...I hope someone knows the answer and
will
> : include it here. I can't add a thing of real value, except that my
mother,
> : bless her memory, got a set of aluminum cook ware for a wedding present
in
> : the late 20's/early 30's. Rumor was the aluminum would poison the cook,
> : but her South Dakota good sense thought that silly. I still have 'em,
and
> : the big pan makes damn good popcorn. It has since I was little watching
> : Wallace Berry on our first TV.
> :
> : Cougar Heart
> : Paul Jacobson #1597
> : ----------
> : > From: WIDD-Tim Austin
> : > To: ammlist@mail.xmission.com
> : > Subject: AMM-List: aluminum
> : > Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:37 AM
> : >
> : > Mr Kramer just brought up a subject that I have been interested in
> : > because of its current availability. Aluminum. Several years ago I
read
> : > that a General George Washington, revolution war era, had a cook set
of
> : > aluminum. Seems I also read the a Mr. Stewart took a set of aluminum
> : > cook ware with him West of the Mississippi River when he went. Does
> : > anyone have the exact documentation on this subject, or did my memory
> : > totally fail me on this one?
> : >
> : > Thank you for your assistance.
> : >
> : > Tim Austin #1564
> : >
> : > --------------------
> : > Aux Ailments de Pays!
> :
> : --------------------
> : Aux Ailments de Pays!
John T. Kramer, maker of:
Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
>>>As good as old!<<<
mail to:
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:13:10 -0500
From: "Fred A. Miller"
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Cabelas Flintlock -- Historically Accurate?
Mike Haught wrote:
>
> I noticed the note regarding the lock question for the Cabela's
> flintlock. I have considered purchasing this gun for my first
> flinter.
>
> I have been told that the lock for this gun would not be historically
> accurate for reenacting the Virginia/Ohio frontiersman/settler of the
> 1780s through 1810.
>
> I'd like to ask the opinion of the resident experts here whether this
> gun would be a good first time flinter purchase.
It's NOT, IMHO. You'd be MUCH better off with a "Cumberland" from Deer
Creek's Wilderness Rifle Works line, which, by the way is semi-custom
hand-made, NOT production firearms from Italy like those from Cabelas.
Cut rifleing, curly maple stocks (NOT euorpean walnut or some odd-ball
wood), a properly designed and made lock, triggers, etc., are quality
accuratly reproduced items from good gun makers. Quality doesn't cost
that much more. Contact Bob at Thunder Ridge Muzzleloading for data and
prices. E-mail address is: bob----debie@pcisys.net.
Best,
Fred
------------------------------
End of hist_text-digest V1 #168
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