From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #183 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, December 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 183 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:41:47 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Blunderbuss wanted... I'm writingthis for a friend of mine. She wants to surprize her hubby with a blunderbuss for his birthday, but doesn't know where to get them. I told her I'd ask on here. You can private the mail to me so as not to take up space on the List... Thanks alot :)) sean@naplesnet.com SeanBear ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:24:45 EST From: Amoore2120@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: MtMan clothing Dear MtMan List Members, While reading through the clothing query responses from some of you, I have noticed a common ground between us regarding the convenience and satisfaction of owning and using clothing and other related items that are customized to fit individual needs. The main reasons, I have noticed, for learning to sew clothing items are to save money, get custom made goods, and quality materials and craftsmanship. I am very interested in anything associated with MtMan clothing gear and how it relates to the MtMan way of life and how you, specifically, craft your own replica clothing. Thank you very much for your responses. I continue to look forward to hearing from each of you. Best regards, Andrea Moore, Sewing Designer Sewing Design Company Amoore2120@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:02:15 -0800 From: "The Windhams" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California Rdvs Schedule Randal, keep an eye open around the first of the year on our web page, we'll be up dating so. cal rondies about 1-1-99 also contact me off line and I'll give you some other webs that keep track of the do'ns here in Cal. http://www.ptw.com/~lattanze/home/blackhawk.html Rick - ---------- > From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: California Rdvs Schedule > Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 3:18 PM > > Ho the list.... does any one know of a listing on the web for California > (southern) Rendezvous for 1999? Any help would be appreciated. > Hardtack > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:25:07 -0600 From: Bill Maddox Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides. In fact, I don't even hunt. I am the Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout Troop in Central Illinois. The first half of deer season is over but the second half is the first weekend of December. We were camping last weekend in a large woodland park, where deer hunting is not allowed but where it could be heard going on. One boy asked what they did with the hides and I said that I did not know. I discovered that the local shops that prepare the fresh deer, discard the hides. One of the boys wondered if we could get some and tan them for Scout displays. Can we do this and do we have the time to get ready? I have a large garden at my house that still have the 6 foot tall tomato stakes still in the ground. Can I make a rack for tanning here and what supplies do I need? I gues what is more important is, HOW DO I DO IT? I can follow directions and am a persistent person. Remember, we are neophytes at this and will have to purchase what we need. NO, WE DON'T HAVE DEER BRAINS. Thanks, Bill Maddox Scoutmaster BSA Troop #198 Pekin, IL idoa1@ntslink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:01:27 EST From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. Bill, You're biting off quite a project for Scouts. Hope they are more enthused than my troop. Suggest you get the book "Deerskins to Buckskins" by Matt Richards. Do a search at Amazon.com or BarnesandNoble.com. It's a great book on tanning deerskins. Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 18:33:31 EST From: Amoore2120@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Designing and constructing replica clothing, please read Dear List Friends, I just thought this might help clarify: the only objective for seriously considering the crafting of one's own period "replica clothing" (or any clothing) is to achieve a level of perfection in materials, workmanship and performance impossible by other means. There is no room in my schedule, and I doubt in yours, for the investment of valuable time and resources (yours and mine) which results in substandard or inferior clothing equipment that causes endless grief, misery, and disappointment. I am suggesting the consideration of crafting your own replica clothing gear because of the superior result which can be achieved only through careful and thoughtful selection of materials and construction techniques. We sew to design and create a custom garment that will work for our own unique and individual requirements, with careful attention to authenticity in the case of replica clothing. When you choose to sew, you are choosing to improve your standards without terrifying your pocketbook. I hope this helps to explain . . . Best regards, Andrea Moore, Sewing Designer Sewing Design Company Product Designer Apparel Designer Sewing Author Amoore2120@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:32:33 -0800 From: Dave Parks Subject: MtMan-List: Re:Tanning Deer Hides Bill Maddox asked about tanning deer hides. The following URL will give you some taxidermy suppliers, for the chemicals needed as well as instructions. Hope this helps, Manywounds http://www.walnutcreekhardwood.com/links.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 14:53:37 +0000 From: randybublitz@juno.com (RANDAL J BUBLITZ) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. Bill, I sent a message back last night, must be lost in the ether... H'yar we go again. First , reference material. Check out web site http://www.lib.ucon.edu/NativeTech . Info on tanning. Next, check out these books; 'deerskins into buckskins' by Matt Richards ISBN 0-9658672-0-x, 'Wet-scrape Braintanned Buckskin' by Edholm & Wilder ISBN 0-9654965-4-6. I have always used cow brains, which I obtain at local Mexican food meat markets. I prefer wet-scrape method of tanning. No rack is required, only a fleshing beam- I use a piece of PVC sewer pipe. I use a draw knife (back edge) as my main scraper. Soak hide, add lye or wood ash to water to facilitate hair slippage. Drape hide over beam and scrape off hair and all membrane on hair side. Scrape off all meat, fat and membrane from flesh side. While resting resoak hide, to take a long break put in freezer. The hides I've done were done a little here, a little there, with long 'rests' in the freezer. get the hides when you can, store in the freezer until ready to work. Once hide is very clean of all membrane, etc... soak in a brain 'soup' for hours. Ring out better than you've ever rung anything before. Rinse and ring, then work the hide until dry. By work I mean, ring, stretch, pull, puch, etc... over and again until dry. You should end up with a soft, pliable piece of leather. If it is not, go back and repeat 'X' processes. When it is soft and pliable, smoke it. I set up a canvas smoke house with my small wood stove. The smoke will reintroduce oils into the hide. These oils will help it mantain its pliability after being wet , etc... I realize that this message will probably raise more questions than it has answered. I also know that there are MANY techniques to tanning a hide. Hence the reference materials noted. Have fun with the boys, make sure they keep their hands clean. Avoid brain solution on open wounds, etc... Bacterial infections are a concern if Hygiene is not practiced. Any questions....? Just post again. Many of us have tanned hides, and have opinions onTHE way to do it. Hope this of some help. Hardtack ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 10:14:55 -0600 From: "Phil Petersen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. Well Longtrail. Here is another opportunity to excel. Or should I send him the hundred or so conversations you had with me? Stubborn - -----Original Message----- From: Bill Maddox To: hist_text@xmission.com Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 10:37 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. >I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides. In >fact, I don't even hunt. I am the Scoutmaster of a Boy Scout Troop in >Central Illinois. The first half of deer season is over but the second >half is the first weekend of December. We were camping last weekend in >a large woodland park, where deer hunting is not allowed but where it >could be heard going on. One boy asked what they did with the hides and >I said that I did not know. I discovered that the local shops that >prepare the fresh deer, discard the hides. One of the boys wondered if >we could get some and tan them for Scout displays. Can we do this and >do we have the time to get ready? I have a large garden at my house >that still have the 6 foot tall tomato stakes still in the ground. Can >I make a rack for tanning here and what supplies do I need? I gues what >is more important is, HOW DO I DO IT? I can follow directions and am a >persistent person. Remember, we are neophytes at this and will have to >purchase what we need. NO, WE DON'T HAVE DEER BRAINS. > >Thanks, > >Bill Maddox >Scoutmaster BSA Troop #198 >Pekin, IL idoa1@ntslink.net > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:33:33 EST From: Grantd9@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Snow Shoeing I am probably going to get some snow shoes for Christmas and need some gear help/advice. Where can I find a pattern or instructions for making authentic bindings? What is the best leather to use for bindings? Or is there a better material for bindings? What are other items that are good to have when pre-1840 snow shoeing? I will be wearing them mostly when persuing small game in the winter woods. Is there a type of gator that would be authentic for a transitional longhunter (1785-1795)? What are some good sources of information on gear for cold weather jaunting? Anyway, that is more than enough questions for now. Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. Thanks. Grant ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:28:38 -0800 From: Dale Nelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. Bill Maddox wrote: > > I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides. Bill, I tried to contact you off the list, but it bounced back, so I'll try this route. Don't salt the hides. To save them until you are ready for them, roll them up and freeze them, or get all the flesh and fat off and let them dry stiff as a board. Then they will keep until you are ready. If you salt them brain tanning won't work. You don't need deer brains. Pork or cow brains work, and they can be ordered from the butcher shop. Tanning is an involved process and there are a number of books on it, plus I have a video on the dry scrape method for sale. $29.95 plus $3 postage. It's a two hour video, and I think it beats a book. If you are interested I'll send you the address. There are other videos also, and you might be able to find either a book or video at the library. Lets see if I can find you a link to a store. http://www.rosenet.net/~flyingcd/index.html Check him out, he sells books and videos. DN ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:54:00 -0800 From: Dale Nelson Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Native use of flintlock vs. percussion guns Lets see, first someone said "As far as native use , flints were perfered. it was easier to find a piece of useable flint, than to get caps." Then someone else said "That sounds more like speculation than documentable historical fact. The Indians and mountain men were in the arms race of the day and the choice of weapons was a life and death decision for them." Well shucks, now I'm going to have to add my thoughts on this. It seems to me that suggesting the Indians and Mtn. men were in an arms race borders on speculation at the best, or at the worst transposing 20th century thinking onto people of the 19th century. I own at least 50 books on the fur trade, and probably half that many on antique guns, and I'm sorry, in my reading an arms race isn't there. I'm not saying that there weren't fights and stealing, be that as it may, the Mountain Men and the Indians weren't at war, and in fact they preferred to trade with each other. Then it was said "It was well documented by men of their day and discussed here previously the reasons why flintlocks came up short. Flintlocks, while they are pretty and nostolgic, are not all weather rifles that one would want to stake ones life on under inclimate weather conditions especially high winds and heavy rain." Now that hurts my flintlock loving soul. What makes anyone think that a caplock rifle is water proof? It aint folks, and in fact a flintlock handles water better than a caplock. I live in rainey southwestern Oregon. I've killed a dandy buck in a lashing rain storm using a flintlock, just to prove I could do it. I've seen trail walks shot in rain storms and by golly caplocks have to be well cared for or they will fail to fire just as often as a flinter. That's where wide brimmed hats come into use. It provides a roof over the lock area. One real eye opener is to go watch a trappers run, which is a shooting match that requires among other things, setting traps in water. The trap is set, and then the gun loaded and fired while the hands are still wet. The shoot I watched required three traps to be set, and most of the caplocks failed to fire on the first, second or third shot due damp caps, but all of the flintlocks fired all three shots. Where can I find some of the "well documented by the men of their day" remarks, I'd like to read them. Then it was said "I'm not saying percussion was the total answer because they were quickly replace by fixed ammunition (rimfire and centerfire). In the days when you life depended on your ability to defend yourself or get game, any man would want the best weapon available." Hmmmmmm? According to my books the big push to develop a breech loader was so the gun could be used horseback. It seems that muzzleloaders are difficult to load on a galloping horse. In fact the first firearm that was truly useable horseback was the Colt Walker. That's a six shooter that shoots what was then a rifle charge. Lets see, I think I'll snip a bit of this and finish with what he says here, "And if you ran out of powder it didn't much matter if you had a flint or percussion rifle. What I'm getting at is that it was no more of a problem to obtain caps, keep them dry, etc. than it was to protect you powder and keep it dry." Right on, you speak the truth. But I'd like to point out that caps are just one more thing to keep dry, and once wet, they don't work. Flints don't have to be kept dry and you can also start a fire with the lock. Black powder that gets wet can be dried out and it isn't as good, but it still works. Wet caps, and you are screwed. Hey, I'm not trying to be smart, or stomp on anyone's toes. This is just some stuff that I've noticed over the years, and I'm old enough to have a contrary opinion. DN ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:07:47 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tanning deer hides. On Sat, 28 Nov 1998, Bill Maddox wrote: > I am new at this and don't know anything about tanning deer hides. In Hallo Bill Check out the following two resources http://www.braintan.com good advice and books. and http://www.healingearth.com/ which is Gil Schluter's page with a section on brain tanning. Gil is not only an accomplished tanner, but is more than willing to help with problems in that field. Regards Lee Newbill Viola, Idaho email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 01:13:04 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Designing and constructing replica clothing, please read Andrea, I have been reading your postings with interest and have a few questions for you -- you said you'd been researching old ways of sewing. How about we pick your brain a little? Given; many folks made what they knew with the skills they had and they may have created some crude garments. Not everything or everyone would have had the same limited set of skills. Clothes were manufactured (by hand) and traded. Some were more skilled than others. Some may have apprenticed as tailors. What were the methods and materials of bindings, interfacing and linings common to the early nineteenth century? What was the range (and method) of sizes in finished goods intended for trade? What types, colors and twists of thread were most common? What styles of seams and stitching were used for the various garments and areas of garments? Were French fell seams used or were they a development that came after the sewing machine? What were common seam allowances to protect from unraveling of fabrics? Did they vary by fabric? One might presume that there would be a greater variety of threads and materials in the settlements where the made goods were fabricated than were available on the frontier for self made goods. Have you encountered any information along these lines? John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #183 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.