From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #234 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, February 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 234 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 01:30:30 EST From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: trad blanket sorry about that last partial message, I hit the wrong @#*@! button. What I was getting around to is this, I'm trying to figure out what items to have available for our Local Ronnyvoo. My wife is pretty crafty and can do most things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. YMHS, Wade "Griz" Smith Meridian, ID ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:28:14 -0500 From: "Mill, Kirk" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trad blanket > I'm trying to figure out what items to have > available for our Local Ronnyvoo. My wife is pretty crafty and can do > most > things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not? Any help would > be > appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > YMHS, > Wade "Griz" Smith > Meridian, ID [Mill, Kirk] I'm looking at the same situation. Right now I am hoping that I can make some cash or barter with my gourd canteens. I have basically an unlimited supply of dried gourds. I clean out the insides, seal the insides with parrafin, sew on a support harness made from buckskin I tanned, and add a cork and rope strap. What do you folks think that something like this is worth? TIA Kirk Mill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:23:24 -0600 From: "Jody Carlson" Subject: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf Hello the list, Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website? I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog. Thanks in advance, Jody sjsdm@conpoint.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:37:57 EST From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket In a message dated 2/10/99 6:36:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Griz writes: << sorry about that last partial message, I hit the wrong @#*@! button. What I was getting around to is this, I'm trying to figure out what items to have available for our Local Ronnyvoo. My wife is pretty crafty and can do most things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. >> Well Griz, I'm not going to be of much help here, but there are plenty who can give you a good detailed list. I just figured I'd make a comment. You don't really HAVE to have a trade blanket unless it's really something you just want to do. Myself, if it's yer second vous, I'd just go and enjoy. Look around with the trade thing on yer mind and see what suits yer fancy. Looking at it from that perspective something may jump out at you that you overlooked at the yer first vous that will have you saying "man I can do that and I think I would really enjoy that." Going to rendezvous does not mean that you have to set out a blanket. I just through that in because I have talked with people who came away with the impression that it was a "must" to do. I've been in this game fer almost ten years now and have yet to throw a blanket. If I get a hair to make something, it will either be for my own use or to give to a good friend. I just go to rendezvous, have a great time and rather than try to sell anybody anything, I'll spend time just talking to the flatlanders (public) and explain what it is I am portraying etc. Also at this early stage you are still trying to develop and define the character you want to portray and then you will find yerself redefining etc. I would just concentrate on that for starts. Maybe why I haven't set to trading, I'm still redefining my character...........maybe someday I will find myself! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:10:18 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf Jody Carlson wrote: > Hello the list, > > Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website? > > I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jody > sjsdm@conpoint.com Jody, www.trackofthewolf.com> I don't recall what I paid for the cataloge but it was about $5 or so. I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:58:57 -0800 From: Pat Laughlin Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf Their catalog is $7 and it is a big one. Telephone # 612 424 2500 FAX 612 424 9860 Latest catalog is good thru 2000. Really a nice one. www.trackofthewolf.com is their web site email track@iaxs.net Jody Carlson wrote: > Hello the list, > > Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website? > > I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jody > sjsdm@conpoint.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:40:54 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket Kirk and Meridian "Griz", I would expect to pay about $20 for a gourd canteen, Kirk. I have grown and made them too but it has been a few years since I got a decent crop. I once got close to $75 per gourd in a trade for some quill work but that was "Mountain Prices" for sure. I still figure I owe the quiller some more gourds. As to what to do for a trade blanket, I like the idea of waiting until you have a few "Rendezvous under you belt, Griz. But what I like to see on a trade blanket are items that I know are authentic to the Rendezvous era and not just cute looking handy crafts made of beads, feathers and commercial leather. I appreciate someone who has taken the time to research his "stock" to make sure it is correct for the period. So much of what is seen at even the big National Rendezvous these days sadly does not fit into that category and at the smaller shoot/rendezvous the problem is even greater. It is a problem in that what folks (especially the new people) see on trade blankets is what they perceive to be historically correct when in reality it is more correctly tourist trap junk. It dilutes the efforts of all who put as much into the sport as they can, trying to be authentically representative of the real historical event. It's almost cheating. Pretty strong words, I know but some times it needs to be said. So go and see, research what is right, build it with care and craftsmanship, trade it with pride. BTW, where am I coming from? I was the "Trade Chief" for the last non NMLRA Western Nationals in Viapon Park. I did my best to see that what was offered for sale was period correct. Wish I could have done more. I remain....... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:01:59 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Capotes & stuff... "Scott Janzen" wrote: >Can one of y'all tell me the correct pronunciation of "Capote"? Is it >"ka-pote" or "ka-potee"? >This has been bugging me for a while... Me too! Capote is originally a French word, and in Canadian fur trade journals c.1774-1821 it is usually spelled 'capot' but sometimes 'capote'. Today, the French pronounce capot as 'cap-oh' and capote as 'cap-ought'. The problem is that there have been big changes in French pronunciation since the establishment of New France, and the French-Canadians (the ones who brought this great garment to the fur trade) kept using the old pronunciations. This means that another possible pronunciation might be 'cap-oat',and that even 'cap-oaty' might be correct. For now, I say 'cap-oh'. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred P.S. I don't know Spanish, but Spanish & French are related languages. Is there a Spanish word 'capote' which is adding to the confusion? agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:55:28 -0700 (MST) From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Track of the Wolf Catalog $7.00 E-Mail is: track@iaxs.net Web is: wwwtrackofthewolf.com And they do answer their E-Mail B > >Hello the list, > >Can any of you tell me if Track of the Wolf has a website? > >I am also wondering as to the cost of their latest catalog. > >Thanks in advance, > >Jody >sjsdm@conpoint.com > > > - -- "The Price Of Freedom Is Not Free" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:29:19 -0700 (MST) From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: MtMan-List: What Period, and What is Period Correct?? What period of time do you call it, I know the Period just before the Revolution ary War was called the Long Hunter Period, that came the war with England, we won became the U.S.A. the original 13 colonies became 13 States, and soon the Caroli nas, Tennessee, & Kentucky started becoming inhabited Buy a lot of people and t he are started growing towns, so when this was happening that being the settlemen t of Carolinas, Tennessee, & Kentucky. What period of history does the Muzzle lo ading community call this, and about when was it happening 1780's or later? B - -- "The Price Of Freedom Is Not Free" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:54:09 -0500 From: greg n bosen Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil bob, what is the ratio for the iron oxide to linseed oil. or what would be the ammounts to cover a 10x12 canvas. Also, will this linseed oil / iron oxide combination waterproof a relatively loose woven canvas. how tight does the canvas need to be? Greg Bosen <<<>>>>> >I've waterproofed canvas using linseed oil, but never used beeswax in >it. >The formula I used was simply boiled linseed oil and iron oxide >powder. >Iron oxide comes in two forms, a yellow and a rust brown. Both are >used in >making pottery glazes, and can be had in bulk at pottery making shops. >The >iron oxide acts as the filler, fills the pores in the fabric, and is >important in the process. <<<<>>>> >Bob > > >Bob Spencer >non illegitimi carborundum est > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:12:47 -0400 From: bspen@aye.net (Bob Spencer) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil > what is the ratio for the iron oxide to linseed oil. or what >would be the ammounts to cover a 10x12 canvas. My cloth is 8x8, and I used 2 quarts of boiled linseed oil and 3 cups of iron oxide. I would think you would need about 3 quarts and 4 cups, but that's a guess. >Also, will this linseed oil / iron oxide combination waterproof a >relatively loose woven canvas. how tight does the canvas need to be? I can't really answer that, Greg. I've only ever made one cloth, and the weave was fairly tight on that cloth. The pigment fills the weave, and I would guess that it would do so more easily if the weave were fairly tight, the holes in it fairly small. If you are going to try this, let me recommend you watch Baker do it on his video, or read his instructions in the Muzzleloader article of Mar/Apr, 1989. I read the instructions to make mine, and it was easy to understand. also, I'm sure there are people on this list who have made them, and they might have some good advice to offer. Bob Bob Spencer non illegitimi carborundum est ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:07:01 -0800 From: Tom Roberts Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use of oilcloth for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable alternative to canvas. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:07:57 -0500 From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: What Period, and What is Period Correct?? 1780 to 1800 ---(dates may be wrong but believe this age was called the golden age of muzzle loading--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(813) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:42:20 -0600 From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket I would just like to agree with Lodgepole on this issue, but if you just want to have a trade blanket, I recomend keeping the skinner's in mind. I get frustrated when I go to "traders row" and find nothing but tourist (flatlander) goods. I guess what I'm saying is, I tend to spend more time looking at trade blankets with "quality" items designed with the skinner in mind, than looking at dream catchers made for the flatlanders fancy. I wish more traders would carry products more catered to the wants of the re-enactor but they gotta do what makes them the most money I guess. But the fact remains if you want people to leave traders row to shop at your blanket, give them a reason to do so. Some of the best items I have purchased came off of trade blankets. Good Luck! "Dull Hawk" - ---------- > From: Mill, Kirk > To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trad blanket > Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:28 AM > > > > I'm trying to figure out what items to have > > available for our Local Ronnyvoo. My wife is pretty crafty and can do > > most > > things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not? Any help would > > be > > appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > > > YMHS, > > Wade "Griz" Smith > > Meridian, ID > [Mill, Kirk] I'm looking at the same situation. Right now I am > hoping that I can make some cash or barter with my gourd canteens. I have > basically an unlimited supply of dried gourds. I clean out the insides, seal > the insides with parrafin, sew on a support harness made from buckskin I > tanned, and add a cork and rope strap. What do you folks think that > something like this is worth? TIA > Kirk Mill > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:18:38 -0600 From: "stitchinscot" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket I'm with lodgepole on this one. Stay away from the real garbage but I've personally seen a braintained neck bag get tossed in a campfire because it was given as a shooters prize and the person ending up with it didn't realize it's value. Anything made by hand can always be traded 'up' for something else as the 'pilgrim' gets more into the history and education of 'blackpowder'. nuf said Long John #l677 - -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Hepner To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:08 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket > I would just like to agree with Lodgepole on this issue, but if you >just want to have a trade blanket, I recomend keeping the skinner's in >mind. I get frustrated when I go to "traders row" and find nothing but >tourist (flatlander) goods. I guess what I'm saying is, I tend to spend >more time looking at trade blankets with "quality" items designed with the >skinner in mind, than looking at dream catchers made for the flatlanders >fancy. I wish more traders would carry products more catered to the wants >of the re-enactor but they gotta do what makes them the most money I guess. >But the fact remains if you want people to leave traders row to shop at >your blanket, give them a reason to do so. Some of the best items I have >purchased came off of trade blankets. > Good Luck! >"Dull Hawk" > >---------- >> From: Mill, Kirk >> To: 'hist_text@lists.xmission.com' >> Subject: RE: MtMan-List: trad blanket >> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:28 AM >> >> >> > I'm trying to figure out what items to have >> > available for our Local Ronnyvoo. My wife is pretty crafty and can do >> > most >> > things fairly well. So basically whats hot, and whats not? Any help >would >> > be >> > appreciated. Thanks in advance. >> > >> > YMHS, >> > Wade "Griz" Smith >> > Meridian, ID >> [Mill, Kirk] I'm looking at the same situation. Right now I am >> hoping that I can make some cash or barter with my gourd canteens. I have >> basically an unlimited supply of dried gourds. I clean out the insides, >seal >> the insides with parrafin, sew on a support harness made from buckskin I >> tanned, and add a cork and rope strap. What do you folks think that >> something like this is worth? TIA >> Kirk Mill >> >> > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:56:20 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Linseed Oil On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:12:47 -0400, you wrote: >>Also, will this linseed oil / iron oxide combination waterproof a >>relatively loose woven canvas. how tight does the canvas need to be? > >I can't really answer that, Greg. I've only ever made one cloth, and the >weave was fairly tight on that cloth. The pigment fills the weave, and I >would guess that it would do so more easily if the weave were fairly = tight, >the holes in it fairly small. =46WIW, I've done a single whalen and a diamond. Got better on the diamond (natch, it was the second one) and had the sense to take it to the laundromat with the BIG washers and wash the canvas to remove the sizing. I also ran it through the dryer to pre-shrink it. Got no proof it repels water better, but the weave was much tighter after the wash/dry. Cloth for both came from the local fabric store. YMMV, but I'd invest a couple bucks at the laundromat if I was treating a new fly again. Roy Parker, Buckskinner, Brewer, Blacksmith and other "B"'s, including = "BS". 1999 SW Rendezvous info available at http://www.sat.net/~robenhaus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:20:00 -0800 From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trade blanket If you are like most of us, you will go through an evolution of gear and accoutrements. Concentrate on making your own gear, if you're particularly addept at something then you may have a niche in the trade market. I put out a blanket periodically, in order to 'garage sale' my "pilgrim" stuff, and all the stuff my kids outgrow (all too soon). If you're looking to finance your hobby, make a good 'museum quality' widget and it will sell. Do your research,and you'll be safe. Best of luck.... Hardtack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:12:03 -0500 From: paul mueller Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket To all at there that agrees that the dealers should have re-enactors in mind and not the flatlander stuff that can be brought at wal-mart .tell them.so dealers only carry goods that are time 1680-1840 .some carry flatlanders stuff but it is hand made and would have been around during that time frame.Good dealers are leaving the shows that let this junk in and in time this will turn the event into a glorified fle market. Save your local shows by telling the dealer if he want to carry that stuff you will not buy from him. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:08:56 +0100 From: Allen Chronister Subject: MtMan-List: oil cloth Oil cloth before 1820? Lewis & Clark certaihly outfitted themselves with a bunch of it for their button-together tents, equipment bags and tarps. Allen Chronister ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:53:32 -0800 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oilcloth Tom Roberts wrote: > I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use > of oilcloth > for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable > alternative > to canvas. Any thoughts? Tom, The one reference I can think of was in the list of goods that L&C bought to take on their Voyage of Discovery. I don't have such a list available to me at this moment but I'm sure I have seen oil cloth mentioned. As to its later use, one would wonder that it's use was discontinued after a certain date just because it isn't commented on but that may be the case. The one thing that causes us more trouble than anything else is finding out just how it was made. Wish I had more to share. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:55:05 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket I have had a trade blanket for around 20 years and you are right alot of traders do sell non period stuff. If you are going to sell stuff be period , a fair price and nice looking. I sell blankets tomahawk, powder horns ,knives,etc,etc. I also have a blackpowder store. If you sell something to some and they like it they will tell there friends. Word of mouth is the best selling point there is. I have been to rendezvoos where buckskinners try to see just how hard of a time they can give you about your stuff. So be prepared. I always point out to them explain what is right. Half the time they are wearing their timex watch . How period is that. Make your blanket orgianized just do not throw ever thing around. Remember the customer is sometimes right.Donnie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:40:57 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Oilcloth In my humble opinion (and that's all it is) although historically available, and thus theoretically "acceptable" I would bet the occurance of oilcloth in the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade was about zero. Such references to portable shelters that I can recall mention "bowers" draped with blankets, skins or the like (and of course, other, semi-permanent structures such as tipis, forts, etc). It's my impression that trappers did not use a prepared shelter, although a few of the most well-equipped expeditions (such as Stewart's) brought simple wedge tents. With all due respect to those who prepare and use oilcloth, I find that simple untreated canvas is lighter, more versatile, and sheds water adequately with a few basic precautions of rigging. On the few horse outings I've participated in, we used our pack animal mantees as shelters. When back packing, I take a canvas, and 1-2 blankets depending on weather. If things turn really snotty, we consolidate our stuff and make communal shelters. Trappers did the same. Humbly submitted, Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:07 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use of oilcloth for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable alternative to canvas. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:45:29 -0700 (MST) From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket I have been reading all these comment with great interest about period correct t rade blanket items, and also about some of the traders, and their item that are " Wal-Mart, Tourist Trap" items. I have never been to a Rendezvous, or any Officia lly Sanction NMLRA event but I have been involved in the sport of muzzle loading rifle Shooting in excess of 30 years. Recently retire I have become more interes ted in the sport as I have more for better use of words, free time for hobbies. It would appear that maybe the reason that so of the items that are being sold at these events, are like the one member refereed to as "Wal-Mart, Tourist Trap" it ems. Tourist show up at Rendezvous, and the tourist don't know any better, could careless, or are just looking for that inexpensive souvenir to take to the grand kids. Maybe the traders that see these items are just taking advantage of a sit uation to make a buck. I remember when driving long haul a lot of the truck stop s out west were selling "Genuine Navajo Dream Catcher", I had never seen any of t he real Navajo's selling the item when I made many trip across, the Navajo Reserv ation out west, and frequent stopped at business run by the Navajo. Than one day I was in this truck stop, and one of the employees were removing a perforate tag from back of the"Genuine Navajo Dream Catcher", that said made in Mexico?? I th ink the best idea someone had was to boycott the Traders who are not selling any Period Correct Items, and soon those Traders will either go away or sell item tha t are "Period Correct". It is the customer who is in control of what the custome r purchases or trades for. Not the trader, the successful Trader will see what t he customers are buy, asking for, and provide those item for sale or trade. Hope someday to attend a rendezvous, see what this is all about, appears I missing a lot of fun. B "I have had a trade blanket for around 20 years and you are right a lot of traders do sell non period stuff. If you are going to sell stuff be period , a fair price and nice looking. I sell blankets tomahawk, powder horns ,knives,etc,etc. I also have a blackpowder store. If you sell something to some and they like it they will tell there friends. Word of mouth is the best selling point there is." Make your blanket orgianized just do n ot throw everthing around. Remember the customer is sometimes right." Donnie - -- "The Price Of Freedom Is Not Free" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:05:52 -0500 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trad blanket I have on occasion told dealers and blanket traders that what they have i= n not in anyway period (and did it nicely...with please and a smile) items = on the blanket or store. But they will not remove any item in the majority = of cases because the trade committee is ignorant and said it was OK or they = do not care what the real participants at the re-enactment really want. Mos= t traders, now a days, do cater to the tourists who know nothing and do not try in any way to educate them. Why do so, they would loose the business. Lets' face it, most of the events are now set up with the traders in mind and not the campers. We do not have to go to these events and support th= em, but, events seem to be getting few and far between down here in the south. Who does educate the public???? When do trade committees finally get a b= ack bone and do something??? There are many people out there with the knowle= dge on the time period who have volunteered to help out, but are told no or ignored because the Rendezvous committee wants more traders for the touri= st to come out and see. The period camper is not as exciting as a gussyed u= p trading post and tourist are not too excited about seeing us cook our din= er or lunch. Of course I have seen some real exciting camps that have kept = us all occupied by visual sights of wonder. Those are other stories for a long winter camp. We are seeing in the South, a large influx of Seminole and Creek material. That would be OK, but the material is very documented at 1920s' on appliq= u=E9 work. But one trader told me that he sold the Seminole outfits because h= is mother did such a nice job of sewing. Even shown documentation of the ti= me period did not stop the selling of the materials because they are Indian = and no one wanted to get the trader mad. THIS on this sight is vocal on its' ideas of period, knowledgeable on details of what was brought in and made= , and is willing to learn to upgrade, change and make a better impression f= or themselves and others. But today's "camper" is a weekend warrior and in most cases only interested in having a good time. We all know you can ha= ve a hell of a great time and still be in budget and look great. I have a horrible saying that I use at many events I go too, "if it is made of fur, feathers, leather or beads, it is legal". That is the credo that most committees live by and most blanket traders. How man= y dream catchers and mandelas do you see in traders stores and blankets. I have seen too many. Geeee, I enjoyed getting that off my chest. (Anyone want to come and ea= t a strawberry??) Linda Holley paul mueller wrote: > To all at there that agrees that the dealers should have re-enactors in > mind and not the flatlander stuff that can be brought at wal-mart .tell > them.so dealers only carry goods that are time 1680-1840 .some carry > flatlanders stuff but it is hand made and would have been around during > that time frame.Good dealers are leaving the shows that let this junk i= n > and in time this will turn the event into a glorified fle market. Save > your local shows by telling the dealer if he want to carry that stuff > you will not buy from him. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:03:59 -0800 From: Tom Roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oilcloth Well, that's kind of what I was thinking also. I had an idea that L&C had used oilcloth but had not seen any later references. I expect that I will continue to pursue my first path which is a simple square of light canvas with some sewn-on loops that can be configured as a diamond, a fly, an A-frame over a rope, a lean-to, and who knows what else a bit of creative rigging might make. I'm wondering about the right stuff to sew it with. I'm concerned that ordinary cotton thread won't withstand much outdoor use. I have some rather heavy waxed linen cord but the needle necessary to use that stuff will leave pretty big holes. Any ideas? Tom Pat Quilter wrote: > In my humble opinion (and that's all it is) although historically available, > and thus theoretically "acceptable" I would bet the occurance of oilcloth in > the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade was about zero. Such references to > portable shelters that I can recall mention "bowers" draped with blankets, > skins or the like (and of course, other, semi-permanent structures such as > tipis, forts, etc). It's my impression that trappers did not use a prepared > shelter, although a few of the most well-equipped expeditions (such as > Stewart's) brought simple wedge tents. With all due respect to those who > prepare and use oilcloth, I find that simple untreated canvas is lighter, > more versatile, and sheds water adequately with a few basic precautions of > rigging. On the few horse outings I've participated in, we used our pack > animal mantees as shelters. When back packing, I take a canvas, and 1-2 > blankets depending on weather. If things turn really snotty, we consolidate > our stuff and make communal shelters. Trappers did the same. > Humbly submitted, > Pat Quilter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:07 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth > > I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use > of oilcloth > for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable > alternative > to canvas. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:24:42 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Oilcloth Unless you use a glover's needle (with cutting edges) the thick needle and thread should just push aside the fibers, leaving a fairly tight seal. Your tie straps will naturally be sewn along a short distance to spread the strain evenly. You will get some drippage at these points, but only a few drops. I assume you have seen the trick where you take a small rock or musket ball, poke it into the cloth forming a little pouch, and tie a cord or thong firmly around the "neck" to use as tie points. I do this and use a plain old canvas drop cloth with no loops etc. It takes a few minutes extra at the camp, but you can put the ties anywhere you want along the edges or in the middle. It sounds like you're on the right track overall. Pat Quilter - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 7:04 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oilcloth Well, that's kind of what I was thinking also. I had an idea that L&C had used oilcloth but had not seen any later references. I expect that I will continue to pursue my first path which is a simple square of light canvas with some sewn-on loops that can be configured as a diamond, a fly, an A-frame over a rope, a lean-to, and who knows what else a bit of creative rigging might make. I'm wondering about the right stuff to sew it with. I'm concerned that ordinary cotton thread won't withstand much outdoor use. I have some rather heavy waxed linen cord but the needle necessary to use that stuff will leave pretty big holes. Any ideas? Tom Pat Quilter wrote: > In my humble opinion (and that's all it is) although historically available, > and thus theoretically "acceptable" I would bet the occurance of oilcloth in > the Rocky Mountains during the fur trade was about zero. Such references to > portable shelters that I can recall mention "bowers" draped with blankets, > skins or the like (and of course, other, semi-permanent structures such as > tipis, forts, etc). It's my impression that trappers did not use a prepared > shelter, although a few of the most well-equipped expeditions (such as > Stewart's) brought simple wedge tents. With all due respect to those who > prepare and use oilcloth, I find that simple untreated canvas is lighter, > more versatile, and sheds water adequately with a few basic precautions of > rigging. On the few horse outings I've participated in, we used our pack > animal mantees as shelters. When back packing, I take a canvas, and 1-2 > blankets depending on weather. If things turn really snotty, we consolidate > our stuff and make communal shelters. Trappers did the same. > Humbly submitted, > Pat Quilter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Roberts [mailto:troberts@gdi.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 8:07 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: MtMan-List: Oilcloth > > I've scoured the archives of this forum and find no reference to the use > of oilcloth > for shelter, particularly <1820 and am wondering if it is an acceptable > alternative > to canvas. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:30:05 -0800 From: Matt and Sarah Mitchell Subject: MtMan-List: Magic trick I thought you might enjoy a good magic trick. take a look at this http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html Have fun!! "Pockets" A.K.A. Matt Mitchell Palouse Hills Muzzleloaders Moscow, Idaho msmitchell@turbonet.com "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist---" General John B. Sedgwick's last words, 1864 ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #234 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.