From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #243 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, February 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 243 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:48:47 -0700 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction Chris, Your comments also fit a problem we now have in Colorado, that is our declining Deer population. The D.O.W. for years has poo pooed the idea that there were less Deer now residing within the State than there were 20 years ago. Now that it is nearly too late to save the herd they are admitting that indeed the Deer population is and has been declining for several years and that they should have reacted earlier. Their plan/method of combatting this problem is all Deer licenses after 1999 will be draw only. Kind of dumb to my way of thinking , but then I am not a wildlife biologist. Little thought has been given to the fact that the existing three point restriction on Mule Deer Bucks puts the hunting pressure on the older more mature and genetically stronger Bucks. When the stronger Bucks are harvested from the herd this leaves only the weaker less mature Bucks to carry on and perpetuate. I personally enjoy hunting and occasionally taking nice big trophy sized Muley Buck, but if necessary to save our herd, I certainly would give up my hunting privileges to allow the Deer population to resurrect itself and possibly climb back in numbers to near their former high. If we eliminate the genetically strong Bucks, continue to encroach on their habitat and winter ranges, then all the Deer may go the way of the Buff. All of the above may be moot however as the Colorado State Wildlife Commission for various reasons (read in-line manufacturer pressures.) are seriously considering the total elimination of our special "Muzzle Loading Season" (originally "Primitive Rifle Season") here in Colorado. Respectfully, Old Coyote CC CO >On The Decline of buffalo, You don't have to shoot em all you just >have to >affect calf mortality and the reproductive rate. Large Herbivores are >generally >slow to bring calves to breeding age. If you affect the reproductive >rate a >population will go into decline, and become worse each year if you add >habitat >loss, Disruption of migration routes and any natural causes such as >bad weather >will put the population into a tailspin. If you will recall, bison >used to live >east of the mississippi, and they were hunted and farmed out in short >order. >Your most onry' and disobdient hivernant >Sega > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:11:17 -0600 From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Afr-Amer trappers >Long John, Henry & others, > >Just yesterday I ran across this page: > >http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/furtrade.htm > >It is Bill Gwaltney's essay "Beyond the Pale African Americans in the Fur >Trade West" Excellent reading. Is this the same info that you were >looking >up, Henry? > >Red Coyote RC, Yes, exactly the same. Bill told me it was on the web, but I could never find it, and he couldn't remember the URL (who could.) That's essentially his lecture. Thanks a bunch. Cheers, HBC **************************************** Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:42:56 EST From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Gum Howdy friends In the York Boat Bill of Goods, 1803 list found on the Mountain Man web page there is an entry which puzzles me. It reads: "12 lb. Paper wrapped packages of Gum" What would this be? Perhaps some sort of glue? any ideas? Happy Trails Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:48:23 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Food the old way Walt, Sounds like some interesting reading. Where did you get it? From the northwoods, Tony Clark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:57:33 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Food the old way oops! Sent to wrong list! Sorry - -----Original Message----- From: northwoods To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Food the old way >Walt, >Sounds like some interesting reading. Where did you get it? > >>From the northwoods, > >Tony Clark > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:50:45 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gum Todd, As the bill of lading didn't come with instructions and was translated from the original French some of these items are a little mysterious. =20 Best guess is: it references pine pitch for repairing canoes. It is in the same section as other maintenance supplies, was a needed item, and is an alternative term of the period. It could be gum arabic, gum balsam, or any other of the various tree gums commonly used during the period. We can only be certain it wasn't= Wrigley's. John... At 04:42 PM 2/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >Howdy friends > >In the York Boat Bill of Goods, 1803 list found on the Mountain Man web= page >there is an entry which puzzles me. It reads:=A0 "12 lb.=A0=A0 Paper= wrapped >packages of Gum" >What would this be? Perhaps some sort of glue? any ideas? > >Happy Trails > >Todd Glover >=20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:32:11 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction Charlie, The decline of the mule deer in Colorado is similar to the white tail deer in PA forty years ago, population growth with cities getting larger and larger. PA saw a time with the interbreeding and small sizes that they closed the season for several years and brought in "stock deer" for breeding. I know in 1955 you could buy four tags and take either sex, this was a cleaning method of reducing the numbers, then the season closed. Funny thing this method worked and now they seem to be reaching that time again. In Colorado thirty five years ago the mule deer enjoyed large numbers with little "plains" mulies or white tails, now the mule deer are going down for several reasons and the "plains deer" and white tail herds are larger than ever. I use to live on a farm northwest of Loveland CO and have had many dealings with CSU and Fish & Game about sick mulies that needed to be put down, many were found to have a brain disease (can't remember name, they would stop eating), others were having lung problems (lost their total use of part to all of a lung) similar to the Rocky Mountain Sheep. Many have been just "stressed out" from the growth of humans and loss of previous feeding ranges, or moved back so far that they have changed their feeding habits. The research lab at CSU is an interesting place to visit in Ft. Collins. I was involved with the original small group that got the first muzzle loading season in this state and lobbied for a dozen years to keep it (I'm told that their are only 5 or 6 of that group left now), this season is not a given, it has to have interested parties lobby every couple years to retain it or - its history. We could never get it put on the books as a regular season like high power or archery, the House still believes it cost the tax payers to run a special season, that why the muzzle loading season for elk and deer has always had low number for animals to be taken. Funny how a few thousand permits are available, yet they have had over 50,000 requests and it doesn't make money !!!! As far as the buffalo declining much of the problem has been hashed over several times, most everyone's thoughts are pretty close, a combination of differnet items and our government wanting to gain control of large pieces of ground that the native Americans lived on, the easiest way was, get rid of their food - the buffalo. Sorry to get off the subject with the Colorado muzzle loading thing, its just been part of me since the late '60's. Buck - -----Original Message----- From: Charlie P. Webb To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:56 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction >Chris, >Your comments also fit a problem we now have in Colorado, >that is our declining Deer population. The D.O.W. for >years has poo pooed the idea that there were less Deer now >residing within the State than there were 20 years ago. Now >that it is nearly too late to save the herd they are admitting >that indeed the Deer population is and has been declining for >several years and that they should have reacted earlier. >Their plan/method of combatting this problem is all Deer >licenses after 1999 will be draw only. Kind of dumb to my way >of thinking , but then I am not a wildlife biologist. Little thought >has been given to the fact that the existing three point restriction >on Mule Deer Bucks puts the hunting pressure on the older more >mature and genetically stronger Bucks. When the stronger Bucks >are harvested from the herd this leaves only the weaker less >mature Bucks to carry on and perpetuate. I personally enjoy >hunting and occasionally taking nice big trophy sized Muley Buck, >but if necessary to save our herd, I certainly would give up my >hunting privileges to allow the Deer population to resurrect >itself and possibly climb back in numbers to near their former high. >If we eliminate the genetically strong Bucks, continue to encroach >on their habitat and winter ranges, then all the Deer may go the >way of the Buff. All of the above may be moot however as the >Colorado State Wildlife Commission for various reasons (read >in-line manufacturer pressures.) are seriously considering the total >elimination of our special "Muzzle Loading Season" (originally >"Primitive Rifle Season") here in Colorado. >Respectfully, >Old Coyote >CC CO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:02:31 -0600 From: "Ron and Gayle Harris" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty : Re: MtMan-List: bounty >Lanney, > You are GOOD at one of a kind items from craftsmen, you are lucky there >isn't a warning flyer out about you.. If you weren't so damned cuddly, there >would be a bounty on your ass... >Love, >D >> >GEEEZ, How vmuch bounty??? (per each or.............?) ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 99 19:29:19 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Graniteware Thanks for the address. Will be contacting them soon. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants Laurel huber wrote: >Okay, Keas Duo, here you go: > C & D Jarnagin Company > PO Box 1860 > Corinth, MS 38835-1860 >Phone: (601) 287-4977 or...www.avsia.com/jarnagin/jarnagin.html >You want their 18th Century catalog(they do much Civil War stuff). My issue is >from 1996 and cost $3.00. Good luck. > >Larry Huber >Shoots-the-Prairie > >Phyllis and Don Keas wrote: > >> Need one, so what would be the address, phone # or e-mail for Jarnigin? >> >> DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants >> >> Laurel huber wrote: >> >Dear Joe, >> > I doubt that any trapper or Fur Brigade brought a coffee POT along >> with 'em. >> >I'm referring to a flared bottomed, pitcher-shaped boiler with a lid, >> handle and >> >bail. Like the kind cowboys use in all those movies. It was just too >> >specific an >> >item to pack along. Coffee and tea kettles shaped like that did exist >> but >> >stayed >> >in the settlements indoors. A coffee kettle(a tea kettle boils water, a >> tea pot >> >brews tea in water)in the mountains would have been a straight-sided >> can-shape >> >with a bail. It could be used for coffee, tea, water, stew, or soup. >> There are >> >nice sketches of them by Miller in his works: "Indians Encamped on the >> Eau Sucre >> >River" and "Our Camp". If you buy one by catalog from Jarnigin, it's >> called an >> >"1820 Period Coffee Pot" and is copied from a dig from a 6th US Infantry >> camp >> >dated 1820. Made of heavy tin. Works good for coffee and whatever. >> > >> >Larry "Shoots-the-Prairie" Huber >> > >> >TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: >> > >> >> Since they didn't have enamel ware and coffee and tea were drank. >> What did >> >> they use for coffee pots? I have seen copper tea pots, but what about >> coffee >> >> pots? >> >> >> >> TrapRJoe >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >RFC822 header >> >----------------------------------- >> > >> >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with >> ESMTP >> > (SMTPD32-4.03) id A811E040126; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:37:53 MDT >> >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >> > id 10CbIe-0002DI-00 >> > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:35:52 >-0700 >> >Received: from [207.217.120.123] (helo=swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net) >> > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >> > id 10CbIb-0002Cl-00 >> > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:35:49 - -0700 >> >Received: from earthlink.net >> >(pool032-max22.mpop2-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [207.217.244.82]) >> > by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04867 >> > for ; Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:35:47 - -0800 >> (PST) >> >Message-ID: <36C8E9AC.1A21014C@earthlink.net> >> >Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:44:44 -0800 >> >From: Laurel huber >> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >> >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Graniteware >> >References: <9f3764f8.36c6f2a9@aol.com> >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> >Precedence: bulk >> >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >> >X-UIDL: 915555838 >> >Status: U >> > > > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > >Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-4.03) id AAD8BD80124; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:59:52 MDT >Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Czyx-0006oC-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:57:11 -0700 >Received: from [207.217.120.50] (helo=avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10Czyv-0006o7-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:57:09 -0700 >Received: from earthlink.net (pool526-cvx.ds45-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net >[209.179.130.26]) > by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18256 > for ; Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:57:07 -0800 (PST) >Message-ID: <36CA5D7C.F734010D@earthlink.net> >Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 22:11:08 -0800 >From: Laurel huber >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Graniteware >References: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >X-UIDL: 915555890 >Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:54:42 -0800 From: Chris Sega Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction Old Coyote, I will agree, even with all of the science behind population biology the problems with the managed herds still pop up. too many damn beurocrats in the wildlife departments. And as usual we muzzleloaders get screwed. On the trophy idea. Generally the really large bucks have already passed on their genes and so it does not generally affect the genetics of the herd too badly. What is messing up the herds is lack of migration, which brings new genes into the pool. Your most onry' and disobedient hivernant. Sega ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:02:48 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty Ron, I figger he's worth $5. American....Mebby... D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - -----Original Message----- From: Ron and Gayle Harris To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 9:20 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:bounty >: Re: MtMan-List: bounty > >>Lanney, >> You are GOOD at one of a kind items from craftsmen, you are lucky there >>isn't a warning flyer out about you.. If you weren't so damned cuddly, >there >>would be a bounty on your ass... >>Love, >>D >>> >>GEEEZ, How vmuch bounty??? >(per each or.............?) > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:40:30 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction Colorado's problem is from having a bunch of anti-hunting people on their wildlife commission. To reinstate trapping could help the deer population as this natural predator as had the pressure taken off, since trapping has been so strictly restricted. TrapRJoe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:28:24 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: special hunting seasons The biggest problem Joe is, lack of support by the hunters, EX.: when 50,000 plus apply for a muzzle loading permit and the membership of the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Assn (the group that keeps the season by lobbing for it) is less than 1,500, few listen to their wants. This has been a problem since day one of this season (several of us where there from the begining), and 1,500 is probably about 300 heavy. I have sat on a number of boards working with the DOW, the bottom line is how many you can get to lobby, in 20 years of pushing this season in a number of positions for the CSMLA an average lobby number is 250-300 on a good turn-out, the board for the DOW looks at a turn-out like that as a joke. We would get better support for the season from out of state hunters like, Texas, Kansas and several east coast states, than the guy down the street with his new TC he's never shot, but applied for a permit because its a nice time of the year. In Pennsylvania, their season is on the books as a "regular available hunting season", why because they have hunters that will do what is needed to keep their season, as many of the other states across this land have also done. I know about this season in PA and how the system works from a relation that has been involved on the ground floor since it was started. The Colorado Archery Assn. pulls 700-800 for a lobby turn-out, we have never figured what it takes to get those wanting this season to work for it, too easy to let others do the work, make the calls and write the letters. Same thing happened with Denver and its gun laws within the city, now we're trying to get them thrown out for a better state wide law and again its about numbers again, good chance we maybe stuck with what's on the books, hope not, but when the talley is taken who knows. Buck - -----Original Message----- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 7:46 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction >Colorado's problem is from having a bunch of anti-hunting people on their >wildlife commission. To reinstate trapping could help the deer population as >this natural predator as had the pressure taken off, since trapping has been >so strictly restricted. > > TrapRJoe > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:54:06 -0700 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Buffalo extinction Buck Conner, Don't disagree with your post one bit, but would like to say that there are a lot of us out in woods that do appreciate you and the group ( yes I know a good many of the outhouse gang ! ) for all of your efforts, time and out of pocket moneys spent fighting for our muzzle loading rights and needs. It may seem that your efforts have been forgotten or gone unnoticed, but that simply is not so!! What we have enjoyed these past years is indeed the fruits of those who have gone before us, and I guarantee we will continue to fight for the same reasons you all did. We do have a big obstacle facing us now, but with input from CSMLA members and hopefully a united front of the muzzle loading community (meaning more folks joining and supporting the CSMLA) I believe the fight will be a good one. I must sadly admit that I feel that the Commission may have already made it's decision and is simply playing a game with us. They have done that many times in the past, why should this issue be any different? Hope I am wrong. Respectfully, Charlie CC CO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:16:21 -0700 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Colorado Woe's TrapR Joe, You will be certainly welcome at the CSMLA Wildlife Meeting Saturday March 6th at 10:00 AM at the Radisson Hotel. Greystone Castle Thornton Colorado I-25 and 120th Ave to present your ideas to our board. We have not ceased to fight for the Primitive Hunting Season since Buck Conners left the scene, however the battle is much more uphill now than it was then. The issue at that time was acquiring a special season for primitive rifles. It was a long and difficult battle and those who fought it and stayed out the fight are to be strongly applauded, it was a good and just cause. The issue now is what must we do to save what we have fought so long and hard for? The meeting Saturday is to hear what the CSMLA members feel we should do, what plan of attack do we adopt. It would be easy for us the members of the board to offer our best opinion, but that most likely would not be same opinion as that of muzzle loaders through out the state we have been elected to represent. Our goal is to represent all Colorado muzzle loaders and hopefully design a plan that will appeal to the D.O.W. and the Wildlife Commission that will allow us to retain our hunting season. Everyone will be welcome to attend the Wildlife meeting, so y'alll come! Buck, your post was dead nuts on, numbers stated are very accurate and content told it like it is! Buck if you can make it, I'll bring ya yer badge! TrapR Joe, I don't disagree one bit with your comments, it was a dumb thing eliminating trapping. Many D.O.W folks agree as well, but as you well know "Politics rule"! The only reason most of the Commission members are on it, is because of their stroking the Governor (there is another name for it <>) to gain his political favor. They have little or no background for what they are appointed to do. List; Please accept my apology for using your time and band width to voice Colorado's hunting woe's. I have done so because I believe the out come of Colorados muzzle loading season battle might possibly impact all states and their muzzle loading rights or hunting seasons in the near future. Respectfully, Old Coyote >state trapping could help the deer >population as >this natural predator as had the pressure taken off, since trapping >has been >so strictly restricted. > > TrapRJoe > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 17:09:32 EST From: HawkerAmm@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: special hunting seasons Buck, Seems like the same old problem nationwide. We have it in New England also. Problem is when there is an anti-trapping bill, not only do the anti-trapping people show up but all the anti-hunting, anti-muzzleloading, anti-fishing and all the other "anti's" show up. Who usually shows up on our side? You got it. On a trapping bill, the trappers show up. On a muzzle loading bill, the MLs show up, etc. If we can only learn to all support each other, the results could be significantly different. Imagine what would happen if at an anti- trapping hearing not only the trappers showed up, but ML hunters, Bow hunters, regular hunters, and fishermen all showed up to support the trappers! It high time we learn to support one another if we want trapping, bowhunting, muzzle loading, regular hunting and even fishing activities to survive. What was it? We better all hang together or we will surely all hang separately. Sure enough! Unfortunately, apathy on our side usually prevails and the "anti's" win out because they stick together and support all anti-sport programs. It seems that, in this case, quantity and not quality often wins out. Take care, Bob "Hawker" Valade ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 19:50:48 -0700 From: "Barry Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: special hunting seasons Charlie, Bob and members of this list, The two replies by Charlie and the one by Bob show that we need to band together if we want to keep our hunting freedoms, as well as the other wonderful pleasures we are allowed to have living in these United States. Look at our friends to the north, many of their laws are ones we are starting to see appear here, first they lost their side arms, now complete registration by the first part of the new century. Brothers and sisters this can, and possibly will happen here, Charles E. Hanson Jr (Museum of the Fur Trade) friend, told me twenty five years ago that someday it will happen as mentioned, because of the poor support that the sportsman show when asked for letters, calls or just changing your vote for an elected officals. A few years ago he told me that he would have been better off buying collectable cars than the fur trade guns, because when they come to plug the barrels, he'll burn the whole damn mess, along with the collecters. As we all grow older, many of us are starting to see where he was coming from, what the hell does it take to get all to work as a group, all sportsman, to save a gift that our forefathers fought and died for. Small groups do not work, we have tried that, many a family have been broken up because of the deciation and long hours given to the cause by some of the ones fighting for all. I know and several of the old gang know that we should have taken care of business at home, instead of the sportsman's business, that's all water under the bridge. I told Grizz Ball, many of you know him (one of the Out-House Gang in Colorado) when we go to the other side, lets hope we are remembered as the ones that fought, and maybe they'll forget all the ass chewings we handed out in the fight. Damn it boys I thought we were over the hump, but from what Charlie says, here we go again. This new wife is better than the other one and she knows me pretty good, so Charlie, have a badge ready I'll be there at 10:00 AM in Thornton, CO, need to trade a work day but I be there. See Bob, once you get involved and have been in the fight you can't stop for what you believe in, you an Charlie and a few others are like that too. Its like you and your brothers in the east, your always busy fighting one problem after another for them and half of them don't even say "thanks", Charlie and the group in Colorado are the same, the only thing you'll here is, the one wanting to know why he didn't get what he wanted. I don't know how to get all of the sportsman to come together and work as a large body, hell the NRA has been trying for a century. Friends in Canada say they were fighting a loosing battle before they got started, and it seems like it has come home to roost, so lets hope everyone passes the word on to friends and sportsman that are not on this list, to get involved with what's happening in your state, join your local associations, join the NRA, write those letter to your elected folks, let them know they can kiss your vote good bye if they don't help make a stand. Please excuse me for taking up so much space, when our rights are messed with I go off on a fit, the wife says someday I get locked up for expressing myself to the wrong people. I guess if that's what it takes to get their attention, so be it. Buck _______________________________ - -----Original Message----- From: HawkerAmm@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 3:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: special hunting seasons >Buck, >Seems like the same old problem nationwide. We have it in New England also. >Problem is when there is an anti-trapping bill, not only do the anti-trapping >people show up but all the anti-hunting, anti-muzzleloading, anti-fishing and >all the other "anti's" show up. Who usually shows up on our side? You got >it. On a trapping bill, the trappers show up. On a muzzle loading bill, the >MLs show up, etc. If we can only learn to all support each other, the results >could be significantly different. Imagine what would happen if at an anti- >trapping hearing not only the trappers showed up, but ML hunters, Bow hunters, >regular hunters, and fishermen all showed up to support the trappers! It high >time we learn to support one another if we want trapping, bowhunting, muzzle >loading, regular hunting and even fishing activities to survive. What was it? >We better all hang together or we will surely all hang separately. Sure >enough! Unfortunately, apathy on our side usually prevails and the "anti's" >win out because they stick together and support all anti-sport programs. It >seems that, in this case, quantity and not quality often wins out. >Take care, >Bob "Hawker" Valade > ------------------------------ Date: 19 Feb 99 20:10:03 -0700 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Convention How many of us on this list will be at the CSMLRA Winter Convention in Denver in March? DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:02:19 -0600 From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: MtMan-List: Wes Housler Does anyone know where I may aquire "Dress and Equipage of the Mountain Men" by Wes Housler? "Dull Hawk" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:54:00 -0500 From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Convention If I lived in Colorado, most definately... However, I live in Florida... - -----Original Message----- From: Phyllis and Don Keas To: History Text Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:08 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Convention >How many of us on this list will be at the CSMLRA Winter Convention in >Denver in March? > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:54:28 -0500 From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Wes Housler Check with Amazon.com - -----Original Message----- From: Douglas Hepner To: Mtn Man Discussion Group Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 11:06 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Wes Housler > Does anyone know where I may aquire "Dress and Equipage of the Mountain >Men" by Wes Housler? > >"Dull Hawk" > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:23:08 -0500 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Winter Convention Can you tell us more about this event. Maybe a "few" of us from FLa. can go or maybe next year with more notice. Linda Holley sean wrote: > If I lived in Colorado, most definately... However, I live in Florida... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Phyllis and Don Keas > To: History Text > Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:08 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: Winter Convention > > >How many of us on this list will be at the CSMLRA Winter Convention in > >Denver in March? > > > >DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #243 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.