From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #279 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, April 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 279 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:27:12 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: claw question Just like the cleaned beaver skulls you saw me with this last week end. I first put them in a wire cage. TrapRJoe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:29:20 -0600 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Hello all, I had much the same conversations over the years as Buck C. did with Mr. Hanson, I have always felt he was the best authority on trade guns (smoothe bores) alive. Now that he has gone under I miss tremendously not being able to pick up the phone and chat with him, I also miss those many hours spent with him in his office in Chadron, him in his jump suit an all. I came away with the idea that the rear sight on a smoothe bore was indeed an after market addition, regardless of the method of application. I personally find no fault with anyone who chooses to use them, I simply choose not to. About six months before Mr. Hanson passed away, we discussed a qustion I had concerning an early original H.B.C. North West trade gun that I was doing some wood restoration work on. The gun itself was nearly pristine, looked like it had just come from the builder except for a few spots of dry rot around the top pipe. The barrel had a wonderful patina however had a nasty gash just in front of the breech plug, too far back I thought for a sight. Looked like the gun had been dropped on the bumper of a Model A. I sent Mr. Hanson close up photographs of the gun and gash, when he got back to me, he was chuckling a bit and said you aren't looking close enough. The gash was a blacksmith applied chisel cut that curled up from the barrel to form a rear sight, the center filed notch was was quite noticable with a # 7 Viserview. A later owner of the gun had taken his trusty hammer and peened the curled up sight back down against the barrel. "UGLY" There are many of the trade guns displayed at the museum that show this blacksmith formed sight, however none are as crude as the gash on the old shooter I worked on. Respectfully, C Webb CC CO ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 1999 09:59:41 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight Many of us from Colorado would make yearly trips to the Museum Of the Fur Trade to talk to Mr. Hanson (I made a dozen trips while living in Colorado and half of them with Mr. Conner and crew), Buck would call Charley and he would get rooms at the Best Western for the whole group. Mr. & Mrs. Hanson would go to dinner on us, what nice people. Like Buck and Mr. Webb have stated, I have heard Mr. Hanson refer to the rear sight question as after market additions. Buck bought 2 barrels from junk tradeguns that could not be repaired, one with the blacksmith work and the other a smooth standard un-sighted barrel. I ask what he planned to do with them as they were not cheap. He wanted them for talks on tradeguns to different groups, at the time he would do men's clubs, historical society meetings, etc. Buck if you read this do you still have the barrels, if so put them on this hist_list. Would be a good example of what we are talking about. Turtle Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:02:12 -0600 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Don "Pappy" Horne Hey Hawk, I also have some fine memories of Pappy Horne, I might even sell the farm just to hold one of his 1803 Harpers Ferry's or smoothe bore shooters again. Ole Pappy most likey forgot more about Lewis and Clark and the Corps Of Discovery than most of us will ever know!! Folks we don't realize what treasures some of these old guys are until they have done gone under, what a wealth of knowledge we let slip through our fingers when these folks ford their last stream. What a shame!! Respectfully, C. Webb CC CO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 20:39:18 GMT From: "Wren Phillips" Subject: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits I'm baking tonight, everyone wish me luck. th' rookie, Wren _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings Skagit Muzzle Loaders 1999 Rendezvous When: April 23 - 25 Where: Skagit County, Wa. near Sedro Woolley Details: Trail Walk for Rifle, Pistol, Hawk & Knife. Stew Pot. Candle shoot, Meat, Cannon. Fees: Family $30, Adult $20, Camping(nonshooter) $15 More Info? Contact: http://home1.gte.net/kahlstro/ronde2.htm Pres: Snady Goin (360)856-4273 Sec: Darrell McClenahan (425)670-1712 Booshway: Mike Edsson (360)293-9782 ------------------------------ Date: 08 Apr 99 21:26:28 -0600 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore Mine has a rear sight too and they were not all that uncommon. But, that tells you something about the NMLRA and why they are not in the rendezvous business any more. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants sean wrote: >I, too, have a Chiefs Trade Gun (with rear sight) and it shoots great. I >saw several originals just like it at the MFT last summer. Aye Don... it >will definately make one smile when shooting it. The NMLRA bitches and >won't let me shoot it in matches... old argument about a rear sight... But I >love her and she do shoot straight. I think I paid $750 for mine 2 years >ago... > >Addison Miller > >-----Original Message----- >From: Phyllis and Don Keas >To: hist_text >Date: Wednesday, April 07, 1999 6:12 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore > > >> Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore >>A Brown Bess is rather large and heavy and at 75 caliber, takes lots of >lead weight to carry very many balls. If you like the NW trade gun, but >find (like me) that the stock is too straight, look at a Chief's Grade trade >gun. 20 to 28 guage, mine is one fine gun, does everything I want and just >fancy enough to make me smile. Don Keas >> >>DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants >> >>RR1LA wrote: >>>check some of these suppliers. i can personally recommend Tennessee Valley >>Mfg and CentreMark for prooducing both rifles and smoothbores that are good >>quality and very fairly priced. > >>> Shooter's >Resources >(a very comprehensive listing of many makers) >>> JP Gunstocks, Inc., Muzzleloading >>Rifles - Pistols - Smooth Bores >>> >>> TVM (Tennessee Valley >Manufacturing) >>> BP Vendors >>(another comprehensive listing) >>> >>>Hope this helps, YHS, Barney Fife >>> >>> >>> >>>RFC822 header >>>----------------------------------- >>> >>> Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with >ESMTP >>> (SMTPD32-5.01) id A1F75490050; Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:41:27 -0600 >>> Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) >>> id 10Uk9U-00050J-00 >>> for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:24 - -0600 >>> Received: from [198.81.17.69] (helo=imo25.mx.aol.com) >>> by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) >>> id 10Uk9S-0004zn-00 >>> for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:41:22 -0600 >>> Received: from RR1LA@aol.com >>> by imo25.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.4) id fKEVa17550 >>> for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 -0400 (EDT) >>> From: RR1LA@aol.com >>> Message-ID: <40e0debc.243c35cd@aol.com> >>> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 00:15:09 EDT >>> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore >>> To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>> MIME-Version: 1.0 >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 >>> Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>> Precedence: bulk >>> Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >>> X-RCPT-TO: >>> X-UIDL: 449 >>> Status: U >>> >> >> >> > > > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A25E1CF0100; Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:03:42 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10V2I7-0004HA-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:03:31 -0600 > Received: from [206.102.200.11] (helo=mercury.peganet.net ident=root) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 10V2I3-0004GK-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:03:27 -0600 > Received: from seans-puter (peg28-ts85.peganet.com [206.100.65.135]) > by mercury.peganet.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA11954 > for ; Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:03:24 -0400 (EDT) > Message-ID: <002601be8153$9d1636e0$874164ce@seans-puter> > From: "sean" > To: > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:06:09 -0400 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 471 > Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:15:56 -0700 From: terry l landis Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings thanks lee. i never did get in there to pick up those flyers. too busy rubber necking i guess. hope to see you there. YMHS, Terry (muskrat) Landis ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 1999 20:48:38 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Smooth Bore - rear sight I traded the barrels to Charley Hanson about two years before he died for some other fur trade items that he had extra on, at the museum. Sorry, but if you look in some of the Quarterlies there are pictures of "after market rear sights" and standard smooth flats at the breech (no sights). Good project for one of you to look up and put on the net. I've been so busy with filling orders for heirloom seeds this late in the year, myself and the suppliers have never seen such a year for the old seeds. Maybe they're loaden them in them smoothbores and plantin' munches of em at one time ! Buck Conner dba/Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. ________________ bought 2 barrels from junk tradeguns that could not be repaired, one with the blacksmith work and the other a smooth standard un-sighted barrel. do you still have the barrels, if so put them on this hist_list. Would be a good example of what we are talking about. http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 00:25:14 EDT From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Don "Pappy" Horne if you get my way let me know and i will let you fondel my 28 gage chiefs rifle---- I argued with pappy for 2 years about what i wanted in a trade gun and to no avail---finally we agreed on a 28 gage that was all we agreed on---I had old man boskain kallispil MT. build me a barrel and darn it took some talking for him to make me a 28 gage that would shoot .535 round ball with a .015 pillow ticking---and 44 " long no less---got the barrel took it to pappy at Oka valley and he said would put it together when he had time and for me to look him up at friendship in the spring---he might have it finished by then---cought pappy at friendship and he told me the gun was done and he had it with him but he wanted to test it in the trade gun matches---he won the matches and I shot the same gun and took second pappy had a faster flint and steel so he won by default---damnest trade gun i ever saw----shoots round ball like a rifle and shot pattern is outstanding---got to be fast on the birds---must have killed 25 turkeys to date and dont know how many doves and other flying critters have sucomed to its beller and smoke---still use the darn thing for turkey---and have killed a many a limit of doves in MO. and Kansas---killed a bunch of phesent in kansas and up around decatur Ill---pappy has given up building and bruce has come to the conclusion that scratching on ivery or horn is more profitable than making guns---a loss of another craftsman---pappy horn and dan anderson and a few others did 45 days of the lewis and clark treck---what a story---almost as good as coming down the misouria to the festival of the little hills---lest we forget the shining times---wish i had had a recorder and recorded all the stories from pappy, dan anderson and dale black---at least the foxfire people got a good base line on a couple of them---still remember the mountain man matches at oka valley---be ready for anything and carry what you need with you---was at dale black's first annual pig and goat shoot even shot the goat dale dressed it and we put it on the iron rod for cooking---remember the candel shoots that for a prize a pocket knife changed hands at least 20 times before it came to a true owner---we burn some powder and had shining memories of the good times---wish someone would do a article on pappy, bruce and don horn----saw pappy druel over vernon smith's 1803 and his scottish pistol---vern never did tell him all of his secrets---the 1803 is in texas being shot by vernon's boy now - ----saw a bunch of folks swear it was original---"only the maker knows", this is craftsmanship---lots of research and doing it right. quality takes time and a compitent craftsman---BTW what is cc company--- they is close to me because pappy , dale black, dan anderson and hawk boureton are the ones who signed my ticket to join the AMM---and sponsered me. "HAWK" Michael pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 E-mail: Hawknest4@Juno.com Phone: 1-727-771-1815 On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:02:12 -0600 "Charlie P. Webb" writes: >Hey Hawk, >I also have some fine memories of Pappy Horne, I might even sell >the farm just to hold one of his 1803 Harpers Ferry's or smoothe bore >shooters again. Ole Pappy most likey forgot more about Lewis and >Clark and the Corps Of Discovery than most of us will ever know!! >Folks we don't realize what treasures some of these old guys are until >they have done gone under, what a wealth of knowledge we let slip >through our fingers when these folks ford their last stream. What a >shame!! > >Respectfully, >C. Webb >CC CO ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 23:40:03 -0700 From: "Corey Tretteen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Upcoming Pacific Northwest Doings For all us newbies on the list, how authentic is this Rendezvous? =20 Thanks, Corey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 09:40:02 -0500 From: Don Neighbors Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:Don "Pappy" Horne Did not know about pappy sorry to hear. I remember sitting around the fire drinking mead . Yes he was great to listen to, learned alot from him myself. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:35:33 -0600 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: CC CO Howdy Hawk, The CC CO is simply to let folks know that for time being my lodge and hat are hanging in Canon City Colorado. Doing this is kind of a carry over from the cowboy action shooting list, the list members are from all over the world, so we kind of adopted the idea of letting folks know where we were from by using the cities initials and the state abbreviation, thus CC CO or StL MO. Formerly everyone took up a page and a half citing all their credentials and clubs they belonged to, which was alright for reading once but after reading fifty posts with everybodys wonderous accomplishments one wishes for a simpler method. Some still list everything, but a greater number just list the basics, City and State. I personally enjoy knowing where each list member resides, kind of makes each post a little more interesting for me. To hear how one does things in Florida contrasted to the way the same thing is done here in the shining mountains stimulates my thinking, and at times has caused me to modify a practice for someone else's better practice. Bottom line here I guess is that I like to know where list members are corresponding from. I suppose I am just nosey. <<>> Enjoyed your post on the Horne's, they still are "some punkins" to me. I had every opportunity to own one of "Pappy's" shooters, but just kept putting it off, now am sorry. Indeed I would enjoy fondeling your 28.ga. Have a great week end!!! Respectfully, C Webb CC CO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 10:25:01 -0700 (MST) From: delis@aztec.asu.edu (BRUCE S. DE LIS) Subject: MtMan-List: Williams Arizona Rendevou Anyone on the list know of this event, and whom has the information on the 1999 event????? PP - -- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:32:52 -0700 (MST) From: Vic Barkin Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Williams Arizona Rendevou This is a Porkeaters shoot, not a true Voo. If you want Primitive, The PHC will be putting on the Jed Smith Rendezvous (small, but good!, usually about 15 to 20 camps) at the same time. I'll get you more info as soon a s we nail down a site if your interested. It'll probably be somewhere south of Flagstaff and North of Phoenix. Vic >Anyone on the list know of this event, and >whom has the information on the 1999 >event????? > >PP > >-- Vic "Barkin Dawg" Barkin AMM #1534 Three Rivers Party "Aux aliments du pays!" Booshway of the Powderhorn Clan of Arizona Celebrating our 50th anniversary 1948-1998 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:35:33 -0600 From: "Charlie P. Webb" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: CC CO Howdy Hawk, The CC CO is simply to let folks know that for time being my lodge and hat are hanging in Canon City Colorado. Doing this is kind of a carry over from the cowboy action shooting list, the list members are from all over the world, so we kind of adopted the idea of letting folks know where we were from by using the cities initials and the state abbreviation, thus CC CO or StL MO. Formerly everyone took up a page and a half citing all their credentials and clubs they belonged to, which was alright for reading once but after reading fifty posts with everybodys wonderous accomplishments one wishes for a simpler method. Some still list everything, but a greater number just list the basics, City and State. I personally enjoy knowing where each list member resides, kind of makes each post a little more interesting for me. To hear how one does things in Florida contrasted to the way the same thing is done here in the shining mountains stimulates my thinking, and at times has caused me to modify a practice for someone else's better practice. Bottom line here I guess is that I like to know where list members are corresponding from. I suppose I am just nosey. <<>> Enjoyed your post on the Horne's, they still are "some punkins" to me. I had every opportunity to own one of "Pappy's" shooters, but just kept putting it off, now am sorry. Indeed I would enjoy fondeling your 28.ga. Have a great week end!!! Respectfully, C Webb CC CO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 20:09:09 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits How are the biscuits? Lanney Ratcliff - -----Original Message----- From: Wren Phillips To: hist_text@xmission.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 3:42 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits >I'm baking tonight, everyone wish me luck.=20 > >th' rookie, > >Wren > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 22:09:29 -0400 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits Lanney, I thought you were on the ground this weekend?? D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accouterments http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - -----Original Message----- From: Ratcliff To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 9:07 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits How are the biscuits? Lanney Ratcliff - -----Original Message----- From: Wren Phillips To: hist_text@xmission.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 3:42 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Keepsake Biscuits >I'm baking tonight, everyone wish me luck. > >th' rookie, > >Wren > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 20:39:49 -0700 From: Barbara Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Rear Sights and other unponderables G'evenin' Gentlemen and Ladies! Forgive me. I only just bought my first gun since the cap gun my mama gave me when I was three. I do have a sight on it, and I believe it's "open iron", but I'm unsure if it's a "rear sight." Most of the events I've looked into shooting at specify "fixed open iron sights only," none have mentioned NO SIGHTS ALLOWED. Is this a concern only at NMLRA sponsored big deal doins' back east? Please enlighten this poor pilgrim! :-) By the way, Pendleton I got your lube and I'm off to try it out tomorrow morning. Thank you so much! I note the lack of wintergreen scent. Must be something other than chapstick! :-) Just kidding. The patch lube debate was of great interest to my backwoods ridge-runnin' Daddy in Lower Alabama. I've transmitted most of it to him and we're still discussing it. Since he just decided he's gotta build me a French Fusil (wheeee!!) I think I'll swear by whatever he tells me I oughta be usin' (at least over the phone)! Thank you again for your kindness in sending it to me, and I'll let you know what this poor untutored pilgrim thinks of it! YMDS - -Tassee ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 10:37:30 -0400 From: "sean" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rear Sights and other unponderables The "Rear Sight" debate by the NMLRA, and some of us on this list, refers to Trade Guns (smooth bore), not rifles. In "Trade Gun" matches, they do not allow you to use rear sights, only the front sight. This is a bone of contention with me and others, as we contend that some trade guns, as the Chiefs Trade Gun, DID have factory installed rear sights. *chuckles* I think this will be an on going battle for quite awhile.... I gave up arguing with them about it, so I just shoot my flinter rifle at the matches, and my Chiefs Trade Gun on the range here at home. Addison Miller - -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Smith To: history Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:42 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Rear Sights and other unponderables >G'evenin' Gentlemen and Ladies! > >Forgive me. I only just bought my first gun since the cap gun my mama >gave me when I was three. I do have a sight on it, and I believe it's >"open iron", but I'm unsure if it's a "rear sight." Most of the events >I've looked into shooting at specify "fixed open iron sights only," none >have mentioned NO SIGHTS ALLOWED. Is this a concern only at NMLRA >sponsored big deal doins' back east? Please enlighten this poor >pilgrim! :-) > >By the way, Pendleton I got your lube and I'm off to try it out tomorrow >morning. Thank you so much! I note the lack of wintergreen scent. >Must be something other than chapstick! :-) Just kidding. The patch lube >debate was of great interest to my backwoods ridge-runnin' Daddy in >Lower Alabama. I've transmitted most of it to him and we're still >discussing it. Since he just decided he's gotta build me a French Fusil >(wheeee!!) I think I'll swear by whatever he tells me I oughta be usin' >(at least over the phone)! Thank you again for your kindness in sending >it to me, and I'll let you know what this poor untutored pilgrim thinks >of it! > >YMDS >-Tassee > > ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #279 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.