From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #290 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, April 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 290 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:58:03 -0700 From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack Jerry, Sorry for the delay in getting to your question re: halter construction. Yes, I had been referring to halters, their construction and material used. My only fear in using cotton rope is its lack of strength. Maybe braiding some strands together would solve that problem. Definitely got to work on that. Thanks again. John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: zaslow To: Sent: Sunday, April 18, 1999 8:26 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: AMM-List: Horse Tack > Randy, > > Thanks for the info on the American Rendezvous Magazine and headstalls. I > have every issue and I'm going to look up the article. Another book that I > have picked up that has some good stuff is called "Western Tack Tips" by Tom > Hall. Another Brother got it at a tack store and although it has some > modern stuff, it also has some good stuff on how to make old style > hackamore's. I have some period correct stuff made with leather and brass > made by Marty Deushane and if anyone wants his # and address, I'd be happy > to provide it. > > What I was wondering from reading the original post by John Funk was, where > you talking about headstalls or halters? Sounds more like halters. If that > is the case, then they could be made of cotton rope much like modern ones in > tack stores made of nylon rope. > > Best Regards, > > Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 1999 15:16:42 -0700 From: Subject: MtMan-List: Columbine High Information (OFF-TOPIC) For those of you on the hist_list that have contacted me on this list and off-list on the Columbine High Shooting, wanting an address for contributions. These are tax-deductible per our Governor in Colorado and Vice President of the United States, mentioned at the Memorial Service on Sunday. There are funds setup for ech student and teacher that were wounded or loss their life. Figured most didn't relly know these people and the general funds would be better suited. Colorado State University is collecting for the victims and their families. Contributions should be made by check payable to "Colorado State Cares" and mailed to CSU Foundation, PO Box 1870, Fort Collins, CO 80522-1870 Columbine High School is collecting for the damage done by the bullets and blood stains to the library. Contributions of $10 should be made by check payable to "Columbine High School Library Fund", C/O the Littleton Jaycees, PO Box 1008, Littleton, CO 80160-1008. Any other information desired may be gotten from the two addresses shown above. Sorry for the delay, but with everything that has happened, it's hard to get good information for address, phone numbers, etc. Buck Conner Colorado Territory Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:21:42 -0400 From: "Bob Keefe" Subject: MtMan-List: Another newbie question First off thanks to everyone who responded to my last question, it was helpful info. Today I am looking for a source for plans of camp furniture such as kitchen box, chairs , table E.C.T. Havn,t had much luck locating any so far Many Thanks Bob Keefe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:40:35 -0700 From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Another newbie question Yup, Kinda hard at first. Check out these web sites, look on them for other links and use the search features of your browser and a'fore long you'll have more bookmarks than you know what to do with! Medicine Bear <(((>< http://www.jastown.com/ http://home.earthlink.net/~fsimmons/post.htm http://www.teleport.com/~walking/goosebay/ http://www.bradleycompanyofthefox.com/books3.html http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ Bob Keefe wrote: > First off thanks to everyone who responded to my last > question, it was helpful info. Today I am looking for a source for plans of > camp furniture such as kitchen box, chairs , table E.C.T. Havn,t had much > luck locating any so far > > Many Thanks > > Bob Keefe ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 1999 16:46:16 -0700 From: Subject: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Thanks to Michael Pierce and Buck Conner for showing some examples of clear documentations and sound thread resources when researching items. Both of these gentlemen have always been delightful in their findings and knowledge of different time frames that we all are interested in on this history link. There have been many that have added and hopefully continue to do so, this is what Dean Rudy has started and assembled in the files we can go to, and refresh our memories. Thanks to all of you that come forth with such great items of interest, it's a nice experience to be able to learn and listen along with some funny stories thrown in, again thank you. Back hear in PA, most do the F&I War to Rev. War then jump to the Civil War, very little fur trade, making this a nice relief. Turtle. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 26 Apr 1999 16:49:03 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Columbine High Information (OFF-TOPIC) Thanks Buck, checks in the mail. Turtle. > On Mon, 26 April 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > For those of you on the hist_list that have contacted me on this list and off-list on the Columbine High Shooting, wanting an address for contributions. > > These are tax-deductible per our Governor in Colorado and Vice President of the United States, mentioned at the Memorial Service on Sunday. > > There are funds setup for ech student and teacher that were wounded or loss their life. Figured most didn't relly know these people and the general funds would be better suited. > > Colorado State University is collecting for the victims and their families. Contributions should be made by check payable to "Colorado State Cares" and mailed to CSU Foundation, PO Box 1870, Fort Collins, CO 80522-1870 > > Columbine High School is collecting for the damage done by the bullets and blood stains to the library. Contributions of $10 should be made by check payable to "Columbine High School Library Fund", C/O the Littleton Jaycees, PO Box 1008, Littleton, CO 80160-1008. > > Any other information desired may be gotten from the two addresses shown above. Sorry for the delay, but with everything that has happened, it's hard to get good information for address, phone numbers, etc. > > Buck Conner > Colorado Territory > > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:29:50 -0700 From: RANDAL J BUBLITZ Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Another newbie question Bob, check out Book of Buckskinning II for the article on 'Making Camp Gear'. This article includes chests, chairs, etc.... Hardtack ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:29:56 -0400 From: Tom Roberts Subject: MtMan-List: Walnut Dye From what I've gathered by perusing the archives, a logical choice for dyeing material dark brown is the hull of black walnut. My question is whether anyone has successfully performed this task using the hull of english walnut which seems to be the variety harvested for it's meat. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:25:40 -0400 From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources turtle ---if you need anything give us a whoot on or offline or our phone number is at the end of this post---we'ev been back to the indian wars a bit---best to you and thanks for the good words---still looking for that positive thread for proper documentation of a possession to include that rifle I have sitting in the corner---that i have been scratching my head about for over 3 weeks---one of those unmakked things---looks like a fordney but----starting that ever ending search for reality--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On 26 Apr 1999 16:46:16 -0700 writes: > Thanks to Michael Pierce and Buck Conner for showing some examples >of clear documentations and sound thread resources when researching >items. > Both of these gentlemen have always been delightful in their >findings and knowledge of different time frames that we all are >interested in on this history link. > There have been many that have added and hopefully continue to do >so, this is what Dean Rudy has started and assembled in the files we >can go to, and refresh our memories. > Thanks to all of you that come forth with such great items of >interest, it's a nice experience to be able to learn and listen along >with some funny stories thrown in, again thank you. > Back hear in PA, most do the F&I War to Rev. War then jump to the >Civil War, very little fur trade, making this a nice relief. > Turtle. > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1999 07:05:39 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources Ditto to Michael's remarks Turtle. Hey, what would you call this for documentation, good, bad or a thread boys ? ______________________________ I owed and operated a muzzleloading store and customer - Dale would come in for coffee and some friendly chat. One day he mentioned he had a little chromed plated pistol that his grandfather owned, it had been loaded for so long they were afraid to beat the shells out off it. It was a little S&W break open in 38 S&W (not Special - sometimes called 38 S&W short). Nickel plated with the hard rubber black grips. Dale's grandfather had worked at a stage stop in Virginia Dale, CO (same place that Jack Slade ran years before, Hole In The Wall Gang leader and Wells Fargo agent. My ex-wife's grandfather worked for both of these gentlemen, as a guard and stage driver between Ft. Collins CO and Larimie to Cheyenne WYO. that's another interesting story of John Mansfield. Anyway "Doc" and Dale's grandfather were friends, "Doc" was supplied with fresh horses and food on several occasions when being followed by different people. Dale never said if they were the law or lawless. It's in the history books of this place, if interested. Dale couldn't get the cartridges out of it. He was worried that his kids may get hurt with it laying around the house and wondered if I would look at it. He brought it in and told us the story of this gun, I suggested we write to S&W and that would show what was on their records as to who really purchased the gun originally. In the mean time we would try and remove the frozen cartridges. That turned out to be a job, removed the cylinder and soaked it in several types of lubes, oils and finally carb. cleaner. with a dowel and a small hammer we drove the loaded cases out of their resting place without hurting anything other than pushing the lead bullets down in the cases. Overall condition of bore and cylinder holes were poor from lack of care, nickel was about 50%, but the gun functioned, so we were pleased with what we had done. When S&W's letter arrived the story he (Dale) told held water as the gun fell within a dozen revolver serial numbers that were purchased by the famous "Doc" Holiday before the turn of the century. In the letter they gave this information and then ended by asking if the gun was for sale. Have lost the serial number since then and gave the owner (Dale Woliver) the Smith & Wesson letter about the little revolver that was purchased by "Doc" Holiday. This was one of a dozen that "Doc" Holiday had purchased from the S&W factory and gave to his friends for favors they had done while on the run with Wyatt and his friends after their shootout at the OK Corral. As far as I know it is still laying on the fire place mantel with an old newspaper picture of "Doc" and Dale's grandfather in front of the stage stop at Virginia Dale Colorado. Now is this documentated or thread for information about this little revolver, just because Dale has a picture of his relation with "Doc" doesn't say he was given the gun, and the S&W records do not say who received the gun. So Hawk, how would you figure this one, I don't personality know what it would be. Can see it both ways ! Buck Conner dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. ______________________________________ > On Mon, 26 April 1999, Michael Pierce wrote: > turtle ---if you need anything give us a whoot on or offline or our phone > number is at the end of this post---we'ev been back to the indian wars a > bit---best to you and thanks for the good words---still looking for that > positive thread for proper documentation of a possession to include that > rifle I have sitting in the corner---that i have been scratching my head > about for over 3 weeks---one of those unmakked things---looks like a > fordney but----starting that ever ending search for reality--- > > "Hawk" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor, florida 34684 > 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com > > On 26 Apr 1999 16:46:16 -0700 writes: > > Thanks to Michael Pierce and Buck Conner for showing some examples > >of clear documentations and sound thread resources when researching > >items. > > Both of these gentlemen have always been delightful in their > >findings and knowledge of different time frames that we all are > >interested in on this history link. > > There have been many that have added and hopefully continue to do > >so, this is what Dean Rudy has started and assembled in the files we > >can go to, and refresh our memories. > > Thanks to all of you that come forth with such great items of > >interest, it's a nice experience to be able to learn and listen along > >with some funny stories thrown in, again thank you. > > Back hear in PA, most do the F&I War to Rev. War then jump to the > >Civil War, very little fur trade, making this a nice relief. > > Turtle. > > > > > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account > >http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:52:30 EDT From: TetonTod@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Henry Route Article Those of you who have obtained a cpoy of the henry Route article from me, please send me your mailing address again, there's another short related article I forgot to send. Todd Glover ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1999 19:07:52 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources I can see what you say, this could be taken either way as documentated or thread information depending on who inviewed the sources. It will be interesting to see how others would look at this, how about it Hawk. Seeing how the gun has stayed in the family and the relation worked at the stage stop, and is pictured with Holiday, is real good thread resouce documentation - like Medina's pants. If he had written paper from the relation, I think it would become solid documentation. Smith & Wesson information says the revolvers were purchased by Holiday for gifts (if I understood that correctly) but didn't give any clue as to who they were given to. Turtle. > Now is this documentated or thread for information about this little revolver, just because Dale has a picture of his relation with "Doc" doesn't say he was given the gun, and the S&W records do not say who received the gun. So Hawk, how would you figure this one, I don't personality know what it would be. Can see it both ways ! > > Buck Conner > dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:33:37 -0700 From: Laurel huber Subject: Re: MtMan-List: twill pants I stand corrected on the dates of the activity of the Amish in this country. I should have know better and appreciate the education. Larry Huber "Shoots-the-Prairie" turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > In reply to your question on the Amish work pants sold by several shops around the country. > > >On Wed, 21 April 1999, Laurel huber wrote: > >I own a pair of Amish pants made out of denim that I use for >everyday knock-about use. They are Broad Fall and have metal rivet >buttons. > > These pants are suited for Civil War and later into the westered movement, to late for fur trade. In Hanson's sketch books you'll see drop fronts, but they have a narrow drop, Buck Conner has an original pair of breeches that belonged to Marino Medina that are drop front and Hanson figured they were late 1840's to 1860's - narrow drop front. > > >Besides the buttons and fabric, I would not use them for Fur Trade > >re-enactment because the most often shown examples of trousers I have > >seen of that period have been Narrow Fall. You start seeing Broad >Falls show up in George Bingham paintings from the late 1840s to the >1850s,Riverboat period. > > I am Amish and my relations came here in the mid 1700's to work as farmers to supply the demands of Phila. and other cities on the east coast. We can date our relations back over 300 years, so I don't understand what you are saying. If working and supplying a demand is not active then what is ! Turtle. > > >The mid to late 1800s is about the time the Amish started being >active. Maybe the style was available earlier but it couldn't have >been as common. Anyone else on the list have documentation on the >wide spread appearance of the Broad Fall style? > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:51:40 -0700 From: "landis" Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Drunks and Nuns O.T. - -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Shorten To: specialedition@worldnet.att.net ; WJMARTIN@erols.com ; drc2277@aol.com ; cmedrummin@aol.com ; Ifn4@aol.com ; regier@pacifier.com ; heavenzdelight@usa.net ; Muchogatas@aol.com ; Floss4u@aol.com ; kirbyef@yahoo.com ; henshaw@molalla.net ; pchandwork@erols.com ; Paul.Wagner@Osan.AF.Mil ; RPBITZ@aol.com ; Feness@erols.com ; travis_mccann@hotmail.com ; DHecker651@aol.com ; P-dinet1com@webtv.net ; Victoria.Agnew@PSS.Boeing.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 1999 5:00 PM Subject: Fwd: Drunks and Nuns > >> >>There was a guy in a bar one night that got really drunk, I mean REALLY >>REALLY drunk. When the bar closed he got up to go home. >> >>As he tumbled out the door he saw a num walking on the sidewalk. So he >>stumbled over to the nun and punched her in the face. Well the nun was >>really suprised but before she could do or say anything he punched her >>again. >> >>This time she fell down and he stumbled over to her and kicked her in the >>butt, then he picked her up and threw her into a wall. >> >>By this time the nun was pretty weak and couldn't move very much so then >>he stumbled over to her, put his face right next to hers and said.... >> >>"Not very strong tonight, are you batman?". >> > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:49:40 EDT From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Drunks and Nuns O.T. boy-oh-boy. and to think iron tongue reamed me months ago for what was a good joke.... myself, i've got a great sense of humor, but we have lost members of this list over less than that.... if you or anyone else wants to get/send jokes, lets do it off-list, not just off-topic, eh? yhs, Barney Fife (and yes, its ok to put me on your joke list, and if anyone wants on mine, let me know offlist) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 01:31:35 -0400 From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Using Documentation and Sound Thread Resources the smith and wesson break top---- if i were to buy the gun and wanted the best available documentation I would want a statement from the oldest known owner or family member of or about its known history--- and noterized---in the letter include all the know history of the pistol by the family member--- then with or included in the documentation--- include the letter from smith & wesson and a copy of the picture of the relative with holiday with a anotation on the back of who is in the picture and the estimated date it was taken if possible---also note that the pistol had been in the family since around or before that date---and how it was passed thru the different family members--- to me this would be solid documented threads that now makes a $100.00 break top pistol into one that has a very increased value due to ownership by holiday---the important thread is that if the letter from smith says that he bought them for gifts for or for close friends---they should have the original letter or order from him that states this---they will photo copy it for you at a price and send it to you---in all documentation always refer to any markings or charactoristics of the piece and or the serial number of the gun---VERY IMPORTANT ---i feel--- I know of at least 5 or 6 jessy james guns--but none have a lick of any documentation or proof of past history---only word of mouth of the family member---such as ---it was given to me by my granfather and he said it was once used by jessy james---(BS) I believe the two solid threads being the letter from S&W and the photograph of the relative---but you need to lock all the pieces together with the noterized statements of the relatives to further validate positive ownership---smith and colt have letters on file of customers that ordered more than one gun at a time or on more than one ocasion---I would bet you a $10.00 spot they have more than just the serial number info---write them or call their historical documentation staff and spend the money to make the gun more valuable---documentated guns go for well over 10 times the standard market value if it belonged to a famous person or historical figure---and are normally limited in number--- it is like my hawkens---I am its third owner--know who originally bought it who got it in the second ownership and then to me---its like a abstract of title on a piece of property---I like that kind of documentation---and you can normally verify names by old tax roles in certain areas of the country--- would like to see pictures of the smith and the picture of the family member and holiday---- - --i feel there is a good start on the documentation but needs the loose ends locked up to solidify the historical threads for posterity and for future owners and to give the piece increased value-----a copy of bucks statement would be good to add to the guns historical package just for fun and such---as was stated the feelings could go eather way but the more info you have the more to the positive side the ballance is swayed in my estimation---pretty close but more is better and if it is not in writing then all becomes only word of mouth---this one has good posibilities in my estimation ---just close all possible loops--. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On 27 Apr 1999 19:07:52 -0700 writes: > I can see what you say, this could be taken either way as >documentated or thread information depending on who inviewed the >sources. It will be interesting to see how others would look at this, >how about it Hawk. > > Seeing how the gun has stayed in the family and the relation worked >at the stage stop, and is pictured with Holiday, is real good thread >resouce documentation - like Medina's pants. If he had written paper >from the relation, I think it would become solid documentation. Smith >& Wesson information says the revolvers were purchased by Holiday for >gifts (if I understood that correctly) but didn't give any clue as to >who they were given to. > Turtle. > >> Now is this documentated or thread for information about this little >revolver, just because Dale has a picture of his relation with "Doc" >doesn't say he was given the gun, and the S&W records do not say who >received the gun. So Hawk, how would you figure this one, I don't >personality know what it would be. Can see it both ways ! >> >> Buck Conner >> dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account >http://www.uswestmail.net > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:48:10 -0400 From: Jennifer McEntire Subject: MtMan-List: Maps Does anyone know if Mountain ever drew their maps on buckskin a la Native Americans? If you think they did, can you point to an example? Thanks for your help. ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #290 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.