From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #322 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, July 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 322 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:00:43 -0700 From: terry l landis Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canut Du Nord Web site I'll talk to Dave about that . hey i stared down a bear sat at Nat. 15-20 feet away . what a rush! YMHS, Terry Landis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 23:49:39 -0700 From: Frank Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canut Du Nord Web site Yeah? Think about how the poor bear felt! (sorry, couldn't resist!) Medicine Bear terry l landis wrote: > I'll talk to Dave about that . hey i stared down a bear sat at Nat. 15-20 > feet away . what a rush! > YMHS, > Terry Landis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:30:37 -0700 From: Roger Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canut Du Nord Web site terry l landis wrote: > I'll talk to Dave about that . hey i stared down a bear sat at Nat. 15-20 > feet away . what a rush! Moose-Moose, For crying out loud! Are we gona have to wait until it comes out in Field and Stream before we hear the details?! I had a great time up there, kinda sorry I missed the bear. Sure met a lot of nice folks and saw some beautiful scenery anyway. So tell the story! I remain...... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 20:44:22 -0600 From: "Lee Cardon" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan-List - Joining the AMM Dave, Have you developed those pictures yet ??? could be an interesting picture if it turns up showing you with your arm around a tree or something... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:41:22 -0700 From: terry l landis Subject: MtMan-List: the bear at Nat. Saturday morning we got up and packed out all the gear we wouldn't need for the last day and took it out. a couple of miles away there was a set of teepee rings so we went to investigate them . when we got back it was hot . so i went down to the creek to wash pots and bring up some water to boil. well i got done washing and i stuck my head in the creek for some heat relief. the whole time i was down there i didn't feel right,but i couldn't put my finger on why . so when i stood up and shook the water offin my head i looked over to the other bank and looking at me over a big log was this bear. all i could see at first was the top of it's nose , eyes and ears. my first thought was "thats a bear!"then it was "shit thats a small bear!" so i reached down -never taking my eyes off of that bear- picked up my hat and put it on. i then turned around and got the pots of water i had and stood up and looked at that bear. it was sniffing around right where i first saw it .i walked half way to the hill and turned around still there and no momma yet. i walked up to the bottom of the hill and turned around, still there. this hill is about20-30 ft high and i got up it in 10 steps and didn't spill a drop. my booshway is sitting at the top in the shade and when i got to the top i hollered at him "hey dave f%$&in Ephraim" and he said "huh?" and i said a little louder " f%$&in Ephraim" he said " what?" and i said " a god damned bear" and pointed to the spot . we let the rest of camp know so it could be chased off because of the horses and all. and then Dave says yer name is Ephraim now. you earned it so now you got it. and then he said "what did you learn today?" i said never leave camp with out a loaded gun. what a trip for this pilgrim to his first rocky mountain rendezvous. that bear was down where dirty shirt was camped the day before . stood about 4ft tall and was the most beautiful shade of copper/ blonde. shining times i shall never forget. in those rocky mountains my sense of brotherhood was born. YMHS, " Ephraim" Terry Landis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 15:13:44 EDT From: KC764@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the bear at Nat. Ephraim: Where exactly are these tipi rings? These are the kinds of things I like to seek out and make a vacation of going to see them. We frequently search out petroglyph sites, here in the west and I then bring my family to see them. Tipi rings would be very interesting to us. You can trust us not to molest them in any way and keep them a secret from people who may. If you don't want the whole world to know, contact me off-list, if you don't mind. Thanks, Carp - kc764@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 1999 13:35:41 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the bear at Nat. "Ephraim", Your lucky that this little guy's mamma didn't show or even some of it's friends, I have talked to the US Forestry folks that work the bears in several of the western National Parks, and that type of encounter I'm told can get real nasty - real fast. Personally have never had that experience, but Mike Moore, Buck Conner and Ken "Quill" Smith of the Baker Party have; Ken ran into a mother and her baby just a few weeks ago from what I understand at a party camp in South Park, CO. At the Rocky Mountain College held in this area it's not uncommon for such sightings, as is the area of this years Nationals. Thank you for sharing your story, one that I'm sure will be remembered and told many times in your travels. Turtle. ________________________ > On Wed, 07 July 1999, terry l landis wrote: > Saturday morning we got up and packed out all the gear we wouldn't need > for the last day and took it out. a couple of miles away there was a set > of teepee rings so we went to investigate them . when we got back it was > hot . so i went down to the creek to wash pots and bring up some water to > boil. well i got done washing and i stuck my head in the creek for some > heat relief. the whole time i was down there i didn't feel right,but i > couldn't put my finger on why . so when i stood up and shook the water > offin my head i looked over to the other bank and looking at me over a > big log was this bear. all i could see at first was the top of it's nose > , eyes and ears. my first thought was "thats a bear!"then it was "shit > thats a small bear!" so i reached down -never taking my eyes off of that > bear- picked up my hat and put it on. i then turned around and got the > pots of water i had and stood up and looked at that bear. it was sniffing > around right where i first saw it .i walked half way to the hill and > turned around still there and no momma yet. i walked up to the bottom of > the hill and turned around, still there. this hill is about20-30 ft high > and i got up it in 10 steps and didn't spill a drop. my booshway is > sitting at the top in the shade and when i got to the top i hollered at > him "hey dave f%$&in Ephraim" and he said "huh?" and i said a little > louder " f%$&in Ephraim" he said " what?" and i said " a god damned bear" > and pointed to the spot . we let the rest of camp know so it could be > chased off because of the horses and all. and then Dave says yer name is > Ephraim now. you earned it so now you got it. and then he said "what did > you learn today?" i said never leave camp with out a loaded gun. > what a trip for this pilgrim to his first rocky mountain rendezvous. > that bear was down where dirty shirt was camped the day before . stood > about 4ft tall and was the most beautiful shade of copper/ blonde. > shining times i shall never forget. in those rocky mountains my sense of > brotherhood was born. > YMHS, > " Ephraim" > Terry Landis Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:46:47 -0700 From: "Munroe Crutchley" Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and steel I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of flint and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have been trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I get a shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get any. I can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing it the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear out the edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I can find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the correct way! Munroe Crutchley Grants Pass, OR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:20:55 EDT From: KC764@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel Munroe: You can make char cloth easily by putting some 100% cotton or flax material in a tight can, like a steel film can, with a small hole in the top from, say, an ice pick, or the tip of a knife. This material can not have fire proof treatment, for obvious reasons. Put the can in a camp fire or a propane bbq, not on your home stove, so your wife doesn't kill you and leave it there until it stops smoking, about 45 minutes or an hour. This "burns" the cloth in an oxygen free environment, thereby not completely consuming the material and making it suseptable to catching a spark. As far as your flint; yes you get the best results from a sharp edge. Use your fire steel to knap the edge of the rock, by striking it and knocking a sharp edge into the rock. By the way, other rocks, besides flint, will create a spark, e.g., quartz, that I pick up out here in the west all the time, sparks very well. Also, you will notice that some rocks have "hot spots" and you will learn to know your rocks. These "hot spots" are where you will want to continue to strike, for best results. Your fire steel needs to be high carbon steel. Anybody who makes them, commercially, will make them from high carbon steel, or they won't sell many, because they won't work. Make a "nest" from dried grass, dead bark from a cedar tree, or something along those lines. Put your rock on top of a piece of your charcloth, strike the rock and catch a spark on it. Then, place the glowing cloth in the middle of your "nest", blow on it until it bursts into flame and place it in you prepared kindling where you want your fire. OSHA warning; this will be hot so don't hold onto it very long (so we don't get sued). Hope this helps. Carp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:35:45 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel Monroe, What you are trying to do is scrape off some of the steel with the stone. The steel should be hardened. Some modern tool steels don't spark well. If you sometimes get spark and sometimes don't it is probably more your technique than fault of the stuff you're using. It helps to have a sharp edge though if your technique is good you can get spark from a pretty dull edge. The angle of attack is more important than how hard you hit. Again, think of the stone scraping a layer off the steel. Think of the angles you use when sharpening a knife. I usually hold the flint (more or less) stationary with a tiny piece of char on top and strike the steel against the stone edge. I have used a fifty cent size piece of stone for months at a time when I was a hand rolled cigarette chain smoker and lit every smoke or fire with flint & steel. A good flint doesn't wear out in a few strokes. I have been using the same steel since '76, it's worn but still works. When I was only striking a light I usually caught a spark with a single strike. Now several years later (and out of daily practice) it usually takes a few strokes to do the same. Back in '79 I was on a ride in Wyoming with a large AMM brigade. One of the graybeards was complaining about not being able to strike a spark during a break to rest the horses. First he thought it was his stone so I took it and struck spark, then he figured it was his striker, it too worked for me, then he figured it was his char and that worked for me as well with his stone and striker. The point is I was in practice and he wasn't. Practice makes perfect. Technique will suffer with lack of use. John... At 01:46 PM 7/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of flint >and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have been >trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I get a >shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get any. I >can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing it >the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear out the >edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I can >find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In >between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the >correct way! > >Munroe Crutchley >Grants Pass, OR > Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:46:33 -0500 From: Bishnow Subject: Re: MtMan-List: MtMan-List - Joining the AMM John Kramer wrote: > > Sorry to disillusion you LongWalker but, AMM has something over 500 members at > present, it began with 5 good men. We are approaching 2000 member numbers > issued over the years. > > The information is free, no fine nor fancy plunder is needed. I am > disappointed to hear some didn't keep their commitments to meet you, that is > not what we are about. > > The only way to join is to be sponsored by a party, two bosslopers or one > hiveranno. We take sponsorship very seriously, as we are first a > brotherhood. > Until we've been on the ground with a prospect in all seasons, it seldom > happens. We are each personally responsible to all the other brothers for the > people we sponsor. > > There was a time when most anyone could join by asking and that brought a few > problems. Now sponsorship is the only way to join, it is not problem free. > > Sometimes it's difficult to make location & schedules coincide to where you > become well enough acquainted with one or more of us to be invited to join. > In > some areas there are very active parties and joining up through one of them > isn't as difficult as happening to know a member and becoming close enough for > them to know you well enough to offer membership, and when necessary find > you a > second sponsor. The best way that can happen is to spend time together on the > trail. > > Dean tries to find someone close by to contact when someone requests > information about joining. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it > doesn't. > It is a group of individualists some of whom are pretty set in their ways. > Some winter alone very nicely. > > To give you an idea of how we're spread out; there is an active party about > 250 > miles East of me, there is one other member within 100 miles North, and one > more another 100 miles on up the road. Its 300 miles South and 500 miles West > to find more. I don't get to see any of them often. Joining is often not > something easily planned, those who belong find their way to us sooner or > later. > > John... > Hiveranno, #656 > > At 09:53 PM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Washtahay- > >At 08:35 PM 6/30/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>How does one go about joining the AMM? There's only a handful of > >skinners in my immediate area, most folks are Civil War folks. > > Todd, they don't really exist. > > Its really just two or three guys who came up with this great scheme to > >drive people crazy-lets PRETEND to start this really neat sounding > >organization. When people try to contact us to ask about joining, we'll > >send them to someone else, who will send them to someone else, and so on > >and so on.... it took a lot of time, writing a lot of letters, making a > >lot of phone calls, spending a lot of money to travel a lot of miles to > >meet folks who didn't show up (if they ever existed!) when they said they > >would before I figured that one out. > > I'm not sure who the two or three guys are though. One of these days I am > >gonna come up with some really great trade goods to bribe Hawk or John > >Kramer into telling me-pretty sure one or the other of them would have some > >clues. > > Unless you already have those great trade goods to part with, or a lot of > >time to waste trying to find the mythical AMM, read Nasitir and Drummond > >and maybe Anderson's journals-still frustrating at times but the results > >are likely to be more tangible! > >LongWalker c. du B. > > > If it ain't exactly right, it's wrong. > john Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Flint and steel Not specifically mentioned below is that most people hold the flint in one hand, and strike it with the steel, using a glancing blow, as if you were shaking a fly off the fist holding the steel. This will shave sparks off as noted, which land on the char cloth held either above or below the flint (whatever seems more secure, and after noting where your stroke sends the most sparks). Also, I have made char in a lot less than 45 minutes, I suppose it depends on the heat of the fire. The main amount of smoke gets over with in 5-10 minutes; there is some question whether you can "overcook" the char, but in any case, after the smoke dies away, allow to cool before inspecting. It will probably work if it is dark brown to fully black. If it will not take a spark, test with a match -- if it will not catch, your cloth may have had fire retardent added (washing thoroughly may help). Any amount of synthetic fiber will also gum up the works with a plastic coating. Use a long, slowly building breath of air to nurse your glowing char into a flame - -- don't huff and puff. Pat Quilter. - -----Original Message----- From: KC764@aol.com [mailto:KC764@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:21 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel Munroe: You can make char cloth easily by putting some 100% cotton or flax material in a tight can, like a steel film can, with a small hole in the top from, say, an ice pick, or the tip of a knife. This material can not have fire proof treatment, for obvious reasons. Put the can in a camp fire or a propane bbq, not on your home stove, so your wife doesn't kill you and leave it there until it stops smoking, about 45 minutes or an hour. This "burns" the cloth in an oxygen free environment, thereby not completely consuming the material and making it suseptable to catching a spark. As far as your flint; yes you get the best results from a sharp edge. Use your fire steel to knap the edge of the rock, by striking it and knocking a sharp edge into the rock. By the way, other rocks, besides flint, will create a spark, e.g., quartz, that I pick up out here in the west all the time, sparks very well. Also, you will notice that some rocks have "hot spots" and you will learn to know your rocks. These "hot spots" are where you will want to continue to strike, for best results. Your fire steel needs to be high carbon steel. Anybody who makes them, commercially, will make them from high carbon steel, or they won't sell many, because they won't work. Make a "nest" from dried grass, dead bark from a cedar tree, or something along those lines. Put your rock on top of a piece of your charcloth, strike the rock and catch a spark on it. Then, place the glowing cloth in the middle of your "nest", blow on it until it bursts into flame and place it in you prepared kindling where you want your fire. OSHA warning; this will be hot so don't hold onto it very long (so we don't get sued). Hope this helps. Carp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 18:54:03 -0700 From: "john c. funk,jr" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel Monroe, It is the steel and not the rock that cause the sparks. - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:20 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel > Munroe: > You can make char cloth easily by putting some 100% cotton or flax material > in a tight can, like a steel film can, with a small hole in the top from, > say, an ice pick, or the tip of a knife. This material can not have fire > proof treatment, for obvious reasons. Put the can in a camp fire or a > propane bbq, not on your home stove, so your wife doesn't kill you and leave > it there until it stops smoking, about 45 minutes or an hour. This "burns" > the cloth in an oxygen free environment, thereby not completely consuming the > material and making it suseptable to catching a spark. > > As far as your flint; yes you get the best results from a sharp edge. Use > your fire steel to knap the edge of the rock, by striking it and knocking a > sharp edge into the rock. By the way, other rocks, besides flint, will > create a spark, e.g., quartz, that I pick up out here in the west all the > time, sparks very well. Also, you will notice that some rocks have "hot > spots" and you will learn to know your rocks. These "hot spots" are where > you will want to continue to strike, for best results. > > Your fire steel needs to be high carbon steel. Anybody who makes them, > commercially, will make them from high carbon steel, or they won't sell many, > because they won't work. > > Make a "nest" from dried grass, dead bark from a cedar tree, or something > along those lines. Put your rock on top of a piece of your charcloth, strike > the rock and catch a spark on it. Then, place the glowing cloth in the > middle of your "nest", blow on it until it bursts into flame and place it in > you prepared kindling where you want your fire. OSHA warning; this will be > hot so don't hold onto it very long (so we don't get sued). > > Hope this helps. > > Carp > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 22:16:13 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel Munroe To clarify another post, the flint scrapes tiny pieces of steel from = the striker which are rendered essentially molten by the friction of the = scraping action of the flint on the steel. These tiny pieces of hot = steel are the sparks that will ignite charred fabric or wood. A good = sharp flint and a good steel will produce plenty of sparks virtually = every strike if the proper angle and speed are used . Getting a good = shower of sparks is accomplished the same way a musician gets to = Carnegie Hall....practice, practice, practice. Lanney Ratcliff - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Munroe Crutchley To: Mountain Man List Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 3:46 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and steel > I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of = flint > and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have = been > trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I = get a > shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get = any. I > can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing = it > the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear = out the > edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I = can > find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In > between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the > correct way! >=20 > Munroe Crutchley > Grants Pass, OR >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:29:04 -0700 From: "Munroe Crutchley" Subject: MtMan-List: Flint and steel info Thanks everyone for the info on firemaking; sounds like I need to put in some time at it. Munroe Crutchley Grants Pass, OR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 03:46:19 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:46:47 -0700, you wrote: >I've never made fire with flint a steel before but just a piece of flint >and a steel striker from TOTW. I haven't made any char yet, but have = been >trying to learn to consistently make sparks. Problem is: sometimes I get= a >shower of sparks and other times I strike and strike and don't get any. = I >can't seem to tell what's making the difference; seems like I am doing = it >the same each time. Does it only take a few strikes to dull or wear out = the >edge of the flint? Am I looking for the sharpest edge on the flint I can >find or what.? Should the striker be hard like a file? Mild steel? In >between? I am striking the steel with the flint; I suppose this is the >correct way! > >Munroe Crutchley >Grants Pass, OR > > Never have had time to finish this darn thing.... This is from March, 1998......just wanted to show Dean I still lurk a lot around here, but don't post much any more. BTW, if anyone wants the pics of the New Orleans price guide from 1831, I finally figured out how to send them in a painless fashion. Several people have asked for this information recently. The following is a reprint of an article I posted in early October. The finished article was lost in a hard disk crash around Thanksgiving, and I have not recreated it. This is based on several years of experience, and an exchange on the Usenet group soc.history.living with several folks who also frequent this mailing list. Scott, see if you can find your own words in this! I'm sorry, but the article is NOT complete. If you've never made a flint and steel fire before, here's the gist of it. The following is a DRAFT copy. The actual article is only about half done. I=92m retaining the copyright for this article, since I hope to have it published for profit and make millions of dollars when Steven Spielberg turns this into a major movie.. The final article had all the contributors listed. I don't have them here, but pulled all the 1996-1997 exchanges off of Deja News by doing a search for "fire starting". When I rewrite this, full credit to all contributors will be given, especially for the info on charwood. The article needs a lot of wordsmithing. I have not done much except spell check it, so it is obviously not ready to go yet. =20 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ---------------------------- There=92s a lot of ways to start fires. I=92m going to cover techniques I=92ve used off and on over the last 19 years. I=92ll also cover a few techniques that I do NOT have a lot of experience with, but other folks do I=92ll be straight with you when I report on something someone else recommends, but I=92ve only experimented with. If I don=92t like = the method, I=92ll tell you, but understand it may be because I don=92t have the technique down due to enough experimentation. Try it yourself. =20 We=92re going to cover charcloth making, striker selection, flint selection, proper tinder and then tie all this together into proper flint and steel firestarting. Char is usually made from cloth, but several people I corresponded with have used different natural materials. This will be covered later on. We=92ll also cover how to select and use a firebow, how to use your shootin=92 iron as a fire starter, char wood making and use, the burning lens (aka magnifying glass), and we=92ll end it with what I diplomatically call =93shortcut=94 (others may call it cheating) techniques some scum-sucking weasles use to get an edge on the competition, just so you have an idea of what to look out for. Charcloth Making =46orget all the stuff they told you in Boy Scouts about using dryer lint, picking up a rock and striking sparks, or rubbing two sticks together. It=92s hogwash. If you follow the recommendations in this article, make a batch or two of charcloth so you can see what is =93good=94 versus =93bad=94 select a flint as described, and have a good striker, you=92ll have flame in less than 15 seconds almost every time you try. My personal best at fire starting is 8.1 seconds, and that took third place.=20 Char is important because you need some material that will catch the sparks from your striker. You can have a marvelous striker and flint, and chuck sparks into dryer lint until the cows come home. And they come home about the time you have a spark catch in the dryer lint. =20 The reason you char cloth is to essentially turn it into pure carbon, kinda like a super charcoal briquette. You want a material that chars well, and has a lot of surface roughness to hold the spark from the striker until it can ignite the cloth. Dryer lint, et. al, has a much higher combustion temperature to keep a coal glowing than does char cloth. That=92s why it is so hard to start a fire this way. Good char cloth will grab a spark as soon as it hits. Start with 100 percent cotton or linen fabric. Make absolutely sure there are no synthetics. These will melt and burn and leave a fire-proof coating over what remains of the fabric. It also makes an awful mess of your char tin. Wool has its own fire retardant. Lore has it that you can=92t make char cloth out of wool, and I always believed it until I sat down to write these lines. I=92ve always accepted that wool won=92t work, but you know, I have never tired it. I will have to take a shot at it next time I make up a batch of char. I=92ve heard that using cloth with patterns makes inferior char cloth. In my experience, it doesn=92t seem to matter. New fabric such as left overs from shirt making need to be washed several times before you char them. Most material like this contains a something called a sizing, which is fine clay impregnated in the cloth to make it smoother and easier to cut for patterns. You can make char cloth from it, but the sizing leaves a bit more ash in the tin, and sometimes keeps a spark for catching as it seems to have to burn through the sizing first. Pure canvas from the sewing store works pretty good after being well washed. Flannel works well too if you make sure you do NOT get the flame-retardant kind. All of these things will work. To make char cloth you can=92t put out without water, you have to use a special type of cloth. Forget about blue jeans, cotton scraps, flannel, canvas, etc. The best stuff I have ever found for char cloth is called Monk's Cloth (available at almost any sewing center, at least here in Texas). It has 5-9 threads in the warp and the woof (?) (these are sewing terms I really don't understand, but it means the top layer weaves in and out of the bottom layer {going sideways of course} kinda like the plastic webbing you have on your aluminum framed lawn chairs, except this is all cotton, and is a lot thinner weave. Monks cloth looks a lot like a coarser weave of the gauze you=92d find in a first aid kit. For those of you who are wondering, I=92ve tried using gauze for char also. It crumbles too easily compared to the Monk=92s cloth for my taste, but catches a spark immediately. If I ever get access to a scanner, I=92ll upload a picture to the web. How do you make char cloth? Easy. Get some 100% linen or cotton, or if you=92ve been paying attention, get some Monk=92s cloth ( wash it once or twice first-a yard of this stuff will start hundreds of fires), cut it up into about inch and a half squares, no larger. When you have a decent handful of pieces, put them in your char tin. I fill my tin (one of the old, large shoe polish tins) so that the pile sticks out about three-eighths of an inch before putting the lid on. This compresses the cloth a little, but I=92ve never noticed a problem . If you really stuff the tin full, you=92ll find a lot of the material in the center is not properly charred. A little compression is ok, a lot is bad. A char tin is nothing more than a small metal can that has a tight fitting metal lid. A shoe polish tin or a pint paint can works great. The pint paint can doubles as a container when making char wood. We=92ll cover that later. Clean out all residue from the previous inhabitant of the can before your start. The real secret is to have a very tight fitting lid, and to close it down tight after you put in the cloth. Next, take a small nail, about a one inch finishing nail and poke a hole in the lid. =20 Now, find a small twig and sharpen it until it plugs the hole you just punched in the top as tight as can be. Set the twig aside, as you won=92t need it for a while. Now toss the can, lid up on the fire. I=92ve tried a bunch of different fires. Some work and some don=92t and = I don=92t know why. Campfires seem to make the best char cloth. Set it on the edge of the coals, and plan 2-5 minutes a side for cooking. Good charcoal fires work about the same. I=92ve tried this numerous times on my propane grill in the backyard, and on my coal forge, at both fast and slow heats, and never had any luck with making good char. My best guess is that even on =91slow=92 heat, it is still too = much for propane and coal. Okay, you have your char tin heating on the fire. More and more smoke is coming out the tiny hole you made (that=92s why you made it!). The smoke smells really nasty. Drop a burning twig across the hole to ignite the smoke if you or your neighbors have a sensitive nose. When the smoke trail is almost gone, flip the can over in the fire, wait 1-2 minutes, and flip it back over. If there is no more smoke pull the can out of the fire, and IMMEDIATELY stick the twig into the hole on the top. The twig is to prevent pulling air back into the can as it cools down. =20 This is why it is nice to make char toward nightfall. If the can starts glowing red, it tells you that you do NOT have an airtight seal, and that air is being sucked back into the char tin, setting the char on fire....that=92s why the can is a dull red in color...it=92s hot. If this happens, toss the charcloth out and start over. I once needed to make some char at rendezvous and had stepped on the lid, so couldn=92t get a good seal. Rather than go borrow another tin, I tried making up a thick mud of clay, smeared that around the rim, put on the lid, added a bit more clay to the seam and tossed it in the fire. It worked like a charm. If the char is brown, or even has white spots, it was not on the fire long enough. Put it back in the can and cook it some more. You should see more smoke coming out the hole as you finish charring the cloth. If the char is brittle, it has been overcooked or still had the sizing left in the cloth. Leftover sizing often also leaves a shiny residue in the can. If it is brittle, throw it away and start over. Good char should be bend double without any cracking or crazing while being uniformly black in color. You should be able to bend it in half with no problems. If it can=92t do that, it is overcooked and makes inferior charcloth. Yep, it will still start fires, just not nearly as quickly. Assuming none of these bad things happened, congratulations! You=92ve made your first char cloth! Now what? Selecting a Flint A lot of people think this is a no-brainer, but it is important. There are two things you want in a flint. The first is sharpness, and the second is hardness. A truly sharp flint is like a piece of broken glass. It is one molecule thick on the edge. No steel knife of any type can even begin to approach that sort of sharpness. Learn how to knap a flint for maximum sharpness. It makes a big difference in how strong a string of sparks you can toss from the steel. Some of the best flints I=92ve ever had have been flakes and spalls left around after someone demonstrated arrowhead making. They=92re small and exceedingly sharp. Rule of thumb is that the darker the piece of flint, the harder it is. And the harder the piece of flint, the lower it dulls. But I=92ve seen some awfully light colored flints throw some very impressive sparks. So I give sharpness the nod over the hardness of the flint. If you can find it, get a chunk of red jasper. Some parts of the country it is easy to come by, and others quite difficult. Here in Houston, where we=92re 100 miles or more from the nearest rock at ground level, I cruise gravel parking lots. Much of the gravel we get is flint, and there always seems to be a piece or two of red jasper. Red jasper is 2-3 times as hard as flint, and if sharp will really throw some truly awesome sparks that can still sizzle when they hit the ground.=20 Selecting a Striker There are two types of strikers. Good ones and bad ones. Initially, it can be hard to tell the difference. The best place to get a GOOD striker is at rendezvous from the smith who made it. If you buy it from someone other than the blacksmith who made it, test it out for 10-15 minutes. Rule of thumb is that you should be able to hold the striker at waist level, strike it with the flint, and have sparks burning at the top of your moccasins. When you find a striker that does this, keep striking for about 15 minutes. Some of the strikers available have only a case hardening. Those sparks you see are little bits of burning metal cut off by the flint (see why we want a sharp flint?) and ignited by the friction of the flint hitting the striker.. If you only have a case hardness on the steel the metal is hard for only 2-3 thousands of an inch, and after 10 or so minutes of striking, suddenly quit giving off a spark. You=92ve used up the hardness, and the striker is worthless. You=92ll pay a few bucks more getting a striker from the original smith, but you=92ll also get a lifetime guarantee, most likely. Make sure the striking face is smooth. If it is made from a file, make sure that there are no file marks left on the face of the striker, or near the edges where a flint can hit. Catching one of these defects can snap the striker in half, as it forces it to break along a fault line. Tinder Tinder is made out of dead plants, the finer the better. There=92s a lot of good material out there. Dead grasses rolled through the hands until they become fibers, tow used in taxidermy (the leftovers from the flax plant when the linen is removed), hay, pine needles, cedar bark ground up finely by hand and allowed to dry. You want to keep it fine, but not turn it into a powder. Tinder is the stuff that will take the glowing coal from you char cloth and suddenly burst into flame for building your fire. Get the deadest, driest stuff you can find, dry it some more, and then keep it dry! Making a Fire by Flint and Steel Okay, you now have good charcloth, a good flint, a good steel and some tinder. How do we go about turning this into a conflagration? No problem. First of all, you=92re going to split up some kindling. Then you=92re going to follow the three (3) steps below EXACTLY AS WRITTEN. Once you get these three steps down pay, you can start experimenting to improve your speed. The tender you have will burn for only a few seconds, so you have to get some larger stuff burning during that time. Start by getting some dry wood split into pieces about the size of match sticks, and gradually progressing until you are adding pieces about a half to inch in diameter. At that point there is no way the fire is going out unless the heavens open up. We=92re not going to get into types of fires. I like a tipi style, other like some of the many others. Use what works for you. 1. Strike the spark. If you=92re right-handed, hold the steel in your left hand. Hold the flint/jasper level in your right with 2-3 pieces of char on top of the rock. The sharp edge of the flint must point to yor right.Use your thumb to keep the char from slipping off and position it so that the char is even with the striking edge of the flint. Use the steel to whack the flint in a rather gentle motion. You=92re trying to shave off tiny pieces of burning metal with the flint, not bash down a building. If you have to hit it hard to get a spark, you=92ve got either a lousy striker or a dull flint. Band-Aids may be called for until you get a feel for the proper technique. Keep it up until you get a spark to catch on the char. If you have good equipment and Monk=92s cloth, only one or two whacks will be needed. You can see a small orange glow in the char where the spark has lodged. This glow may only be obvious in the dark unless you shade the cloth. If you can=92t see it and burn your thumb, it=92s lit.. 2. Blow it into flame Blow on it gently to sprea This can cause a massive blowing fit, d the fire and at the same time grab a handful of the tinder you=92ve already made up into a bird=92s nest about the size of a baseball. Tuck the glowing char down into the center of the birdsnest, pinch the birdsnest closed using your thumb and forefinger to compress it around the char cloth, raise it above your head slightly with your back to the wind, and gently blow on it. If your lungs empty, and no flames are in sight, turn your head to 90 degrees, grab a breath of fresh air, and resume blowing. You keep the nest above your head, plus turn it 90 degrees to keep from sucking the unlit smoke back in your lungs, which is detrimental to your Mt. Man image. 3. Starting the Fire When the flames suddenly erupt, drop the birdsnest into your firepit, add the kindling, and gently nurse the blaze into a full conflagration by adding slightly larger pieces of wood to the fire. Make up a pot of coffee, and invite the booshway over. He may not be impressed with your first-ever flint and steel fire, but he always appreciates a pot of coffee. =46irebows I=92ll be the first to admit this is not one of my areas of great expertise. But I have used a couple of systems, and have started a hundred or so fires this way, mainly for the benefit of the public. Roy Parker We've all heared that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks = to the internet, we know this is not true. =20 ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #322 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.