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hist_text-digest         Friday, July 16 1999         Volume 01 : Number 328




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:52:26 -0400
From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles)
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives and files

Ratcliff wrote:

> There are a bunch of folks here with mixed backgrounds all right.  Grizz, Aligator, Snapping Turtle....various beasts.

>>Yep.. And one hairylegged mountaineer I'll call Ursala...<GG>
D

------------------------------

Date: 14 Jul 1999 18:09:59 -0700
From: <buck.conner@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives and files

Capt. L-moccasin or Rattler Miles !!!!


On Wed, 14 July 1999, "Ratcliff" wrote:

> 
> There are a bunch of folks here with mixed backgrounds all right.  Grizz, Aligator, Snapping Turtle....various beasts.   Even the lower forms are mixed up as well.  There is a snake here that is found nowhere else......the very dangerous and elusive Copperback Rattle Moccasin.
> Lanney Ratcliff
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Dennis Miles <deforge1@wesnet.com>
> To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 1999 7:02 AM
> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives and files
> 
> 
> > Capt.
> >  That was truely an inspirin' tale, it was. And true it had to be.  And if it
> > weren't so early here,  I would open that flask you made me and take a sip to it. I
> > was pondering on the tale and was wondering iffen mebby the not so distant kin of
> > those two may have wandered theyselves down Texas way... Because I can think of a
> > hairylegged Mtn Man there that would pass as kin...Mebby I'll start callin'  him
> > Ursala...<G>
> > D
> > 
> > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e"
> >         DOUBLE EDGE FORGE
> >  Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements
> >    http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1
> > 
> > 
> > 


Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:16:10 EDT
From: KC764@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: MtMan-List: Flint and steel

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From: "Carpenter, Ken" <ken.carpenter@ci.culver-city.ca.us>
To: "'kc764@aol.com'" <kc764@aol.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 13:59:47 -0700
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		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Glenn Darilek [mailto:llsi@texas.net]
		Sent:	Sunday, July 11, 1999 9:36 AM
		To:	hist_text@lists.xmission.com
		Subject:	Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel

		The best sparks come from the highest carbon steel that is
hardened to the
		maximum.  However, this combination also results in the
maximum number ofbroken steels.  Hardening high carbon steel by heating to
orange and
		then water quenching makes the steel almost as brittleness
as glass.
		Despite the common misconception, tempering steel does not
make it harder, it makes it softer!  Tempering steel is removing some of the
hardness to make the steel less brittle.  So the smith must compromise
hardness with acceptable strength of the steel.  There are many recipes for
this, and I make steels with a very hard striking face, but the inside edge
of the steel
		is tempered for strength. 


		The way I learned to harden and temper tool (high carbon)
steel, when I was in high school metal shop (1972), is as follows:

		1..Using an oxygen/acetylene torch, thoroughly heat the tool
you are making to cheery red.

		2.  Quench (dip) the hot metal in oil and stir around to
cool quickly.  You may get a small surface flame up upon quenching.  You can
use water instead of oil.  I can't remember what the difference is, other
than I remember oil gave a better result.  This is the hardening process.
Do not drop the steel on a hard surface, as it may shatter.

		3.  Heat up your home stove to 450 degrees and then "bake"
the steel for an hour.  This is the tempering process.

		4.  Another way to temper is to use the torch and heat the
metal, slowly and evenly, to a straw color and let cool at room temperature.

		I have hardened and tempered punches, ball peen hammers,
chisels, etc., using the above methods.

		I read of an old timers method for case hardening mild steel
is to wrap the item to be hardened in leather, then encase it, or wrap it in
tin from a tin can, or whatever, and put it in the coals of a camp fire for
an hour or two.  I remember reading this in a discussion of how to harden a
frizzen.  I have not tried this.  Has anyone out there tried or heard of
this?


		Carp

- --part1_240a998c.24be9e6a_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:37:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: Brief Comments

good hands-on practical knowledge from Tommy Edge (the non-magnetic
phase of the steel is called austenite - the hardened and drawn back
phase is called tempered martensite).

Iron Burner: didn't convulse in agony, but did have a good heart
bubbling laugh that lasted 5 minutes.

Ephraim was the youngest son of Joseph son of Jacob son of Isaac son of
Abraham.  Ephraim is Hebrew and means fruitful.  See KJV Bible, Genesis
41:50-52.

"Thank God for Michigan" - Abraham Lincoln, May 1861.

"Thank God for Texas and Her Rangers"
(Lanney and no doubt others with keen insight and wisdom have said the 2
legged creatures are the most dangerous beasts in the forest or
mountains).

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:19:42 EDT
From: KC764@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel

In a message dated 99-07-14 17:02:50 EDT, you write:

<< -----Original Message-----
 		From:	Glenn Darilek [mailto:llsi@texas.net]
 		Sent:	Sunday, July 11, 1999 9:36 AM
 		To:	hist_text@lists.xmission.com
 		Subject:	Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
 
 		The best sparks come from the highest carbon steel that is
 hardened to the
 		maximum.  However, this combination also results in the
 maximum number ofbroken steels.  Hardening high carbon steel by heating to
 orange and
 		then water quenching makes the steel almost as brittleness
 as glass.
 		Despite the common misconception, tempering steel does not
 make it harder, it makes it softer!  Tempering steel is removing some of the
 hardness to make the steel less brittle.  So the smith must compromise
 hardness with acceptable strength of the steel.  There are many recipes for
 this, and I make steels with a very hard striking face, but the inside edge
 of the steel
 		is tempered for strength. 
 
 
 		The way I learned to harden and temper tool (high carbon)
 steel, when I was in high school metal shop (1972), is as follows:
 
 		1..Using an oxygen/acetylene torch, thoroughly heat the tool
 you are making to cheery red.
 
 		2.  Quench (dip) the hot metal in oil and stir around to
 cool quickly.  You may get a small surface flame up upon quenching.  You can
 use water instead of oil.  I can't remember what the difference is, other
 than I remember oil gave a better result.  This is the hardening process.
 Do not drop the steel on a hard surface, as it may shatter.
 
 		3.  Heat up your home stove to 450 degrees and then "bake"
 the steel for an hour.  This is the tempering process.
 
 		4.  Another way to temper is to use the torch and heat the
 metal, slowly and evenly, to a straw color and let cool at room temperature.
 
 		I have hardened and tempered punches, ball peen hammers,
 chisels, etc., using the above methods.
 
 		I read of an old timers method for case hardening mild steel
 is to wrap the item to be hardened in leather, then encase it, or wrap it in
 tin from a tin can, or whatever, and put it in the coals of a camp fire for
 an hour or two.  I remember reading this in a discussion of how to harden a
 frizzen.  I have not tried this.  Has anyone out there tried or heard of
 this?
 
 
 		Carp
 
  >>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:34:12 EDT
From: KC764@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel

ubj:	 RE: MtMan-List: Flint and steel
Date:	99-07-14 17:02:50 EDT
From:	ken.carpenter@ci.culver-city.ca.us (Carpenter, Ken)
To:	kc764@aol.com ('kc764@aol.com')



		-----Original Message-----
		From:	Glenn Darilek [mailto:llsi@texas.net]
		Sent:	Sunday, July 11, 1999 9:36 AM
		To:	hist_text@lists.xmission.com
		Subject:	Re: MtMan-List: Flint and steel

		The best sparks come from the highest carbon steel that is
hardened to the
		maximum.  However, this combination also results in the
maximum number ofbroken steels.  Hardening high carbon steel by heating to
orange and
		then water quenching makes the steel almost as brittleness
as glass.
		Despite the common misconception, tempering steel does not
make it harder, it makes it softer!  Tempering steel is removing some of the
hardness to make the steel less brittle.  So the smith must compromise
hardness with acceptable strength of the steel.  There are many recipes for
this, and I make steels with a very hard striking face, but the inside edge
of the steel
		is tempered for strength. 


		The way I learned to harden and temper tool (high carbon)
steel, when I was in high school metal shop (1972), is as follows:

		1..Using an oxygen/acetylene torch, thoroughly heat the tool
you are making to cheery red.

		2.  Quench (dip) the hot metal in oil and stir around to
cool quickly.  You may get a small surface flame up upon quenching.  You can
use water instead of oil.  I can't remember what the difference is, other
than I remember oil gave a better result.  This is the hardening process.
Do not drop the steel on a hard surface, as it may shatter.

		3.  Heat up your home stove to 450 degrees and then "bake"
the steel for an hour.  This is the tempering process.

		4.  Another way to temper is to use the torch and heat the
metal, slowly and evenly, to a straw color and let cool at room temperature.

		I have hardened and tempered punches, ball peen hammers,
chisels, etc., using the above methods.

		I read of an old timers method for case hardening mild steel
is to wrap the item to be hardened in leather, then encase it, or wrap it in
tin from a tin can, or whatever, and put it in the coals of a camp fire for
an hour or two.  I remember reading this in a discussion of how to harden a
frizzen.  I have not tried this.  Has anyone out there tried or heard of
this?


		Carp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:56:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI)
Subject: MtMan-List: Ephraim and America

All American Indians (north, central, and south) are the sole and
exclusivedescendents of Ephraim and Manasseh, the two sons of Joseph.

[Another name for the devil is satan, not Ephraim.  devil means false
accuser and slanderer, while satan means adversary or opponent of all
that is good, i.e. that comes from God the Great Spirit Father and His
Only Begotten Son].

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:30:03 -0700
From: "Sidney Porter" <sidney@htcomp.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Photos

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_00FA_01BECE72.5363DE00
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Yep, he took lots of purty pictures, showed them to me, told me the =
stories.....  Bitch!

It looks like you guys really had a great time in a beautiful place.  =
Color me green.

S
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Ratcliff=20
  To: Sidney Porter=20
  Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 5:47 PM


  I thought you might like to see a few photos of what you missed.
  Lanney

- ------=_NextPart_000_00FA_01BECE72.5363DE00
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Yep, he took lots of purty pictures, showed them to =
me, told=20
me the stories.....&nbsp; Bitch!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It looks like you guys really had a great time in a =
beautiful=20
place.&nbsp; Color me green.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>S</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:rat@htcomp.net" title=3Drat@htcomp.net>Ratcliff</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:sidney@htcomp.net"=20
  title=3Dsidney@htcomp.net>Sidney Porter</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, July 07, 1999 =
5:47=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>I thought you might like to see a few photos of what you =
missed.</DIV>
  <DIV>Lanney</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_00FA_01BECE72.5363DE00--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:45:35 -0700
From: "Sidney Porter" <sidney@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colorado Info Needed

I agree with Lanney, Ft. Uncompagre is a pretty good stop.  Dan Deuter, his
brother, and one other man were there when I went.  I don't remember Dan's
brother's name, but I do recall that he does some of the most beautiful
quill work that I've ever seen.  Having done a bit myself, it's a talent I
greatly admire.

Sidney



If you can fit Delta into your trip you can tour Ft Uncompagre.  It is a
magnificent reproduction of an early trading fort.  Dan Duder (I presume he
is still there) will give you a very good tour.  Delta is north of Montrose
on the western side of the state and may be out of your loop, but my trip
there was well worth the trouble in 1997.
Lanney Ratcliff

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 03:56:55 -0700
From: "Sidney Porter" <sidney@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ursala

Dennis,

Yep, Ursala does fit purty good, don't it?  Fits as well as Big Zwey any
day.... :0)

S



 Capt.
That was truely an inspirin' tale, it was. And true it had to be.  And if it
weren't so early here,  I would open that flask you made me and take a sip
to it. I
was pondering on the tale and was wondering iffen mebby the not so distant
kin of
those two may have wandered theyselves down Texas way... Because I can think
of a
hairylegged Mtn Man there that would pass as kin...Mebby I'll start callin'
him
Ursala...<G>
D

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 09:10:39 -0600
From: "Henry B. Crawford" <mxhbc@TTACS.TTU.EDU>
Subject: MtMan-List: Marc Simmons (was: Where I've been)

Marc says he wants to finish that Carson book in the worst way, but too
many other (personal) things have taken precedence during the last two
years.  Once that's all over, he'll get back to the manuscript.  He said he
wanted to show me some stuff he found that he's putting into it.  I'll be
sure to give him all of your regards.  He'll be glad to know he has a
following out there (he's a very modest guy.  I can't convince him that he
has more than just a following among fur trade reenactors).

>Henry,
>
>
>When you see your old buddy Marc Simmons, ask him if he is ever going to
>finish the book on Kit Carson, then let me know what he says.
>Good to see you around again. Missed you at the Nationals.
>
>Todd Glover
>


****************************************
Henry B. Crawford	Box 43191
Curator of History	Museum of Texas Tech University
mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu	Lubbock, TX  79409-3191
806/742-2442 	FAX 742-1136
              Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum
******  Living History . . . Because It's There  ******

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 11:13:44 -0500
From: Keith and Linda Lawyer <lmlawyer@disd.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Colorado Info Needed

Hello.   Yes, Dan Deuter is still at Fort Uncompagre in Delta, Colo.
His brother, Jim, has moved back to S.D.  Ed Maddox is also still at the
fort with Dan.  They do a beautiful job and if they find out something
they have done there is incorrect, they change it.  It is a wonderful
place to visit.  Plan to stay most of the day.
My husband and I were married at the Fort and visit every time we go to
Colo.
Didn't get to go this year due to family "doings".  :(
Linda

------------------------------

Date: 15 Jul 1999 12:30:33 -0700
From: <turtle@uswestmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: A hunter's name for the grizzly bear - "ephraim"

Funny how the different time frame have used a term or name, interesting.
  Turtle.


> On Wed, 14 July 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote:
> 
> Here's what a few other sources show for "ephraim"
> 
> Buck Conner
> AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> Hypertext Webster Gateway: "ephraim"
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) (web1913)
> 
> Ephraim \E"phra*im\, n. [The proper name.] (Zo["o]l.) A hunter's name for the grizzly bear.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From U.S. Gazetteer (1990) (gazetteer)
> 
> Ephraim, UT (city, FIPS 23530) Location: 39.35972 N, 111.58436 W
> Population (1990): 3363 (943 housing units) Area: 6.8 sq km (land), 0.0
> sq km (water) Zip code(s): 84627 Ephraim, WI (village, FIPS 24150)
> Location: 45.15765 N, 87.16626 W Population (1990): 261 (705 housing
> units) Area: 10.1 sq km (land), 0.0 sq km (water)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary (easton)
> 
> Ephraim double fruitfulness ("for God had made him fruitful in the land
> of his affliction"). The second son of Joseph, born in Egypt (Gen.
> 41:52; 46:20). The first incident recorded regarding him is his being
> placed, along with his brother Manasseh, before their grandfather,
> Jacob, that he might bless them (48:10; comp. 27:1). The intention of
> Joseph was that the right hand of the aged patriarch should be placed on
> the head of the elder of the two; but Jacob set Ephraim the younger before his brother, "guiding his hands wittingly." Before Joseph's death, Ephraim's family had reached the third generation (Gen. 50:23).
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 
> From Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's) (hitchcock)
> 
> Ephraim, fruitful; increasing
> ______________________________________________________________________
> 		     
> 
> 
> 
> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net


Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:39:36 -0700
From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  What's the
similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a .54?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:07:19 -0500
From: Bishnow <bishnows@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com wrote:
> 
> It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  What's the
> similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a .54?
.58 calibre is 20 gauge. If I am wrong about this please someone
correct me. But, guage is the measure of the number of steel balls
that diameter that it takes to make 1 pound. 20 gauge would take
20 steel balls .58 dia. to make one pound. this may not be true 
any more but I read it somewhere once.

Snakeshot

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:07:11 -0400
From: Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

>It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  What's the
>similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a .54?

You might find the information in a FAQ on the MLML web page useful. First
item discussed is just this question. It's at:

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/math.html

Other FAQs are available on the MLML page, URL below.

Bob


Bob Spencer <bspen@aye.net>
Louisville, KY
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:21:58 -0500
From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

You are almost right, Snakeshot.  Gauge is determined by the number of =
round, bore diameter LEAD balls required to weight a pound.  20 gauge =
=3D 20 round lead balls to the pound....about .62 caliber.  Caliber is =
the diameter of the bore expressed in 1/100's of an inch.  50 caliber =
=3D .5 inch.....that is 50/100's inch or one half inch, Denise. =20
Lanney Ratcliff
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: Bishnow <bishnows@swbell.net>
To: <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal


> Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com wrote:
> >=20
> > It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  =
What's the
> > similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a =
.54?
> .58 calibre is 20 gauge. If I am wrong about this please someone
> correct me. But, guage is the measure of the number of steel balls
> that diameter that it takes to make 1 pound. 20 gauge would take
> 20 steel balls .58 dia. to make one pound. this may not be true=20
> any more but I read it somewhere once.
>=20
> Snakeshot
>=20

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:45:47 -0500
From: kestrel@ticon.net
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ephraim and America

   >All American Indians (north, central, and south) are the sole and
   >exclusivedescendents of Ephraim and Manasseh, the two sons of
   >Joseph.
     And the documentation for this can be found where? I am a Christian,yet
I play an Indian when reenacting and REALLY want to know where I can find
this?
Jeff Powers
A mind like a steel trap;rusty and illegal in 37 states!

Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:13:23 -0500
From: Tommy Edge <tedge@nex.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

Bishnow wrote:

> Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com wrote:
> >
> > It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  What's the
> > similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a .54?
> .58 calibre is 20 gauge. If I am wrong about this please someone
> correct me. But, guage is the measure of the number of steel balls
> that diameter that it takes to make 1 pound. 20 gauge would take
> 20 steel balls .58 dia. to make one pound. this may not be true
> any more but I read it somewhere once.
>
> Snakeshot

lead balls not steel


- --
Thank You
Tommy Edge
1244 CCR 157
Cash Ar. 72421
http://www.nex.net/tedge
I make knives.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:38:06 PDT
From: "Bill Jackson" <billjackson@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

I have a trade gun in 24 gauge, she shoots a .570 ball
MadJack


>From: Tommy Edge <tedge@nex.net>
>Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal
>Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:13:23 -0500
>
>Bishnow wrote:
>
> > Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com wrote:
> > >
> > > It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  
>What's the
> > > similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a 
>.54?
> > .58 calibre is 20 gauge. If I am wrong about this please someone
> > correct me. But, guage is the measure of the number of steel balls
> > that diameter that it takes to make 1 pound. 20 gauge would take
> > 20 steel balls .58 dia. to make one pound. this may not be true
> > any more but I read it somewhere once.
> >
> > Snakeshot
>
>lead balls not steel
>
>
>--
>Thank You
>Tommy Edge
>1244 CCR 157
>Cash Ar. 72421
>http://www.nex.net/tedge
>I make knives.
>
>
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 22:12:16 -0400
From: Tom Roberts <troberts@gdi.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

My understanding is that gauge is fairly equivalent to balls per pound.  With a
desire to play with numbers,
one can figure this based on density, volume, and bore size.  There's a bunch of
good threads on this in the archive
E-mail files, but to make things simple, I call my .54 smoothbore a 28 gauge.
There's one good thread which defines
the use of ratios, knowing that 0.72 bore = 12 gauge (12 balls to the pound).
It goes like this:  cube the result of
dividing the diameters (0.72/0.54) then multiply by 12 to get 28.44 or 28
gauge.  I suppose it should work they
other direction as well.

Tom



Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com wrote:

> It's the age old question.  Probably been discussed here before.  What's the
> similarity between gauge and calibre?  Is a 20 gauge the same as a .54?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:42:11 EDT
From: RR1LA@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Ga vs Cal

Lead not steel is correct, and here are some equivelents as taken from both 
the '99 Dixie Gun Works Catalog, pg 709, and 'The Complete Black Powder 
Handbook' by Fadala, pg 188:
GAUGE	BORE DIAMETER    BALLS PER LB (APPROX)
12			.729					12
18			.637					17
20			.615					20	
24			.579					24
28			.550					28
29			.543					29
50			.453

It is noted in Fadala that the actual gauge of most modern BP guns varies 
from the above calculated figures.  It says that many, if not most 12 gauge 
are actually 13, and that most 10's are actually 11's, due to the loading 
components (whatever the heck that means).
Hope this helps,  Barney   

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 13:46:29 -0600
From: "Sickler, Louis L" <louis.l.sickler@lmco.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Tin

Ho the List,

Maybe you guys can help me...........

I have a couple of hand hammered copper mugs. They are very nicely made, but
drinking out of them worries me, for all the reasons well known. I have been
looking around here for a source of tin that I might coat the interiors
with. The responses I have received range from "never heard of such a thing"
to "not many people do THAT any more". But no one can tell me where I might
purchase this stuff.

Is anyone besides me FRUSTRATED at the fact that most people who work in
hardware, lumber, auto parts stores, etc. know NOTHING about the products
they sell. Or worse yet, know nothing of products they should sell, but
don't??

I know minimum wage buys you little in the way of experience these days, but
this is ridiculous.

I have read posts on this list about how to tin, but not where to get the
stuff. I've looked thru the yellow pages here in Denver, but can't find a
heading or business that fits the bill.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Lou
Colorado Territory

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:37:49 -0700
From: Roger Lahti <lahtirog@gte.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tin

Sickler, Louis L wrote:

> Ho the List,
>
> Maybe you guys can help me...........
>
> I have a couple of hand hammered copper mugs. They are very nicely made, but
> drinking out of them worries me, for all the reasons well known. I have been
> looking around here for a source of tin that I might coat the interiors
> with.

Lou,

You can use "silver bearing lead free solder" as sold in plumbing shops "Eagle
Hardware", "Ernst", etc. to tin the inside of your copper pots. A one lb. roll
will cost you about $6 to $10 bucks depending on what the going rate is. Get the
solder and some paste flux intended for use with that particular brand of solder
and get with me on Monday or Sunday night. I got to make a run to Boise so can't
go in to detail now on how to do it but it ain't brain surgery! I remain.....

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'
Wilson Price Hunt Party

> The responses I have received range from "never heard of such a thing"
> to "not many people do THAT any more". But no one can tell me where I might
> purchase this stuff.
>
> Is anyone besides me FRUSTRATED at the fact that most people who work in
> hardware, lumber, auto parts stores, etc. know NOTHING about the products
> they sell. Or worse yet, know nothing of products they should sell, but
> don't??
>
> I know minimum wage buys you little in the way of experience these days, but
> this is ridiculous.
>
> I have read posts on this list about how to tin, but not where to get the
> stuff. I've looked thru the yellow pages here in Denver, but can't find a
> heading or business that fits the bill.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Lou
> Colorado Territory

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:48:11 -0700
From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tin

Capt.
You're right...goin' to Boise ain't anything like brain-surgery...more of a pain
the the other end!!!
HAR HAR HAR  and apologies to any boise-ites from former idaho falls-ite!
Rick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 17:48:29 -0500
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tin

Lou,

A search of Thomas Register turned up:

Canfield
1 Crossman Rd.
Sayreville, NJ 08872 USA

Tel: -Out Of State:
800-526-4577
Fax: 732-316-2177
Or Call: 732-316-2100

Assets: 5M+
($5,000,000 - 9,999,999)
Employees: 50-99
Activity(ies): Manufacturer
Year
Established: 1844
Description: Mfrs. Of Wire, Bare & Core Solders. Solder Preforms, Spheres=
,
Rings, Including Acid & Rosin Core Solder, Electronic, Plumbers,
Automotive, Jewelers, Ingot & Pig Solder, Solder Paint, Paste Form, Solde=
r
Creme Silver Brazing Alloys, Fluxes, Soldering Chemicals For Stained-Glas=
s,
Came Lead, Tinning Solders, Fuse Wire, Babbitt, Babbitt Wire, Tin Anodes,
Solder Anodes, & Tin Alloyed With Zinc, Cadmium, Bismuth, Antimony &
Silver. Distributors Of Brand Name Pig Tin In Bar, Ingot & Pig Forms.

They had a web site listed when I tried it the link didn't work.  Try the
800 # they should at least be able to tell you who you can buy some from.

You might also try local dental laboratory supplies, they may have some.
They used to.  A dairy supply should also sell bar tin, good plumbing
suppliers also used to.  Farm supply also used to stock bar tin.

If you're doggedly determined you will find some.  Buying acids gets tric=
ky
anymore -- be prepared to answer questions.

John...



At 01:46 PM 7/16/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Ho the List,
>
>Maybe you guys can help me...........
>
>I have a couple of hand hammered copper mugs. They are very nicely made,=
 but
>drinking out of them worries me, for all the reasons well known. I have =
been
>looking around here for a source of tin that I might coat the interiors
>with. The responses I have received range from "never heard of such a th=
ing"
>to "not many people do THAT any more". But no one can tell me where I mi=
ght
>purchase this stuff.
>
>Is anyone besides me FRUSTRATED at the fact that most people who work in
>hardware, lumber, auto parts stores, etc. know NOTHING about the product=
s
>they sell. Or worse yet, know nothing of products they should sell, but
>don't??
>
>I know minimum wage buys you little in the way of experience these days,=
 but
>this is ridiculous.
>
>I have read posts on this list about how to tin, but not where to get th=
e
>stuff. I've looked thru the yellow pages here in Denver, but can't find =
a
>heading or business that fits the bill.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Lou
>Colorado Territory
>=20
John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/>

mail to: <kramer@kramerize.com>=20

------------------------------

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