From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #334 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, July 25 1999 Volume 01 : Number 334 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:35:28 -0500 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies - -----Original Message----- From: turtle@uswestmail.net To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 3:30 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalie Turtle wrote: >>Tony, Sounds like you two have a lot in common, I remember reading in "Canoe" magazine about the "Colorado Five" making the 1260 river mile trip (one way) and several other articles about them doing other long trips in other magazines, all period. << I don't think any thing I have ever done would shine a light to that undertaking. My hat is off to Buck and those boys for even thinking of such a grand adventure as that. The best I have ever done is 100 miles or so at one crack, and not period. Unfortunately I never had any company except for my dog, until I met my wife that is (she is one in a million, even though she don't like fast water. My dog didn't either for that matter.) My main reason for canoeing all these rivers and lakes is for: 1) The fun of it. 2) Learn about the fur trade 3) I am researching a book that deals with the routes the native americans have been using to transport goods since approx. 3000 B.C. Ironically, since many of the fur trade routes are the same routes native americans used, I begin looking for these ancient prehistoric routes on the fur trade routes. There is VERY little evidence left after a few thousand years that someone has used a particular river as a transportation route. But it is there. You also mentioned Bucks back problems (I know all about those I have been a timber faller for 14 yrs.) reminds me of the fact that the voyageurs where normally quite short and subsequently had few back problems. They were known to have lots of hernia problems if my memory serves me correctly. All those heavy loads they carried took there toll. Good Luck, Tony Clark ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jul 1999 16:48:00 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies Never did the big lakes like Tony is talking about, mostly minor to major rivers - less work going down stream, all now water under the bridge. > Don't know if this group is still around or if they have done any > big lakes like you mentioned. No longer the same group, I sold the canoes and the trailer, got to busy with other stuff, others moved on. > Does anyone know if they still do these trips or not anymore, Buck > you out there. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:29:42 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spanish Arms Henry, I have seen and shot one of the guns Joe Curtis is building, and they are really built well. I don't remember what he sells them for but if a guy wanted to go that direction in history, you would do well to get in touch with him. Pendleton - -----Original Message----- From: Jerry & Barbara Zaslow To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 10:09 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Spanish Arms >Henry, > >Talked to George Thompson, Capitain of the AMM this evening, who is also a >docent at La Purisima Mission and I was mistaken about the Brown Bess >Muskets at La Purisima in the 1820s. George said that the reason they had >Brown Bess Muskets on display was because the correct guns were stolen and >this is what they got to replace them. They picked Brown Bess Muskets >because they were just about everywhere during that time period. > >He told me that the guns that they did have were Miguelet (I hope I spelled >it right) Muskets, which were made in Spain. George told me that one of our >AMM Brothers (Carl Herder) actually has an original and that another (Joe >Curtis) has made reproductions in the past. If you would like, I will get >their numbers because they are not on the net to my knowledge. > >Best Regards, > >Jerry (Meriwether) Zaslow #1488 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:51:45 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies ThisOldFox@aol.com wrote: >One thing that did catch my eye was the fact that they [voyageurs] put on "white" sashes >as part of this finery. Any idea what they were? My only guess is that this is some mangled version of "worsted" sashes, since voyageur sashes in my time period (1774-1821) are usually described as "worsted belts". Tony Clark wrote: > Why would they have made a portage like this to La Vieux >Desert? I don't presume to guess; geography is really not my strong point! >(By the way could you please tell me what that means?) Well, Le Vieux means "the old man", vieux means "old" (masculine), and desert is a masculine noun that can mean either "desert" or "wilderness". So it could be Old Man's Desert, Old Man's Wilderness, Old Desert, or Old Wilderness. Do the Native Americans in that area have an "Old Man" character in their traditions? We have an Oldman River in Alberta which is named after the Blackfoot people's Old Man, Napi. >What do you >think of my idea that the loads they were carrying may not have been >extremely large? When Alexander Mackenzie's voyageurs were travelling on foot due to a very long and impassable section of the Fraser River, they carried only 80 or 90 lbs instead of the usual 180 lbs (2 X 90 lbs). They were also 'packing' them in the modern sense--one pack to a voyageur, carried constantly. Now, a 'pose' is different; it's a staging point. The voyageurs take their packs to the 'pose', dump them there, and go back empty to the last pose for another load. This enables you to keep an eye on the goods at either end of the pose, while carrying more goods than you could if you used your voyageurs like pack mules, carrying the same load from A to B. So if they were using poses, then it's different from constantly carrying a burden like Mackenzie's voyageurs. Perhaps, by only carrying one pack, they were sacrificing weight for speed (as you suggested). One thing's for darn sure: you don't make such a long portage unless there's no other way. But I know that voyageurs would sometimes take extremely winding canoe routes--in one case, twelve miles of river travel took them just three straight miles from their starting point. Perhaps the water routes would have taken them through *extremely* hostile territory? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 22:47:29 -0500 From: Subject: MtMan-List: Shaving This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00000075.01BED494 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Turtle - Nice shaving outfit! Your strop should be a set, one leather = and the other canvas. =20 To break in a new leather strop, rub in lather (from your mug) into the = leather and then=20 rub it in good with a glass bottle; for 5-10 minutes too smooth out the = leather. Do this a couple days in a row. After that, rub your strop with the palm of = your hand to keep it=20 soft and pliant or pliable. Don't over strop your razor. Strop it 8 - = 12 times on the canvas and then 8 - 12 times on the leather. Then forget the whole idea and = shave with a safety or disposable razor. :) Frank - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00000075.01BED494 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Turtle   - = Nice shaving=20 outfit!  Your strop should be a set, one leather and the other=20 canvas. 
To=20 break in a new leather strop, rub in lather (from your mug) into the = leather and=20 then
rub it in good with a glass = bottle;  for 5-10=20 minutes too smooth out the leather.  Do this
a couple days in a row.  After = that, rub your=20 strop with the palm of your hand to keep it
soft and pliant  or pliable.  = Don't over=20 strop your razor.  Strop it 8 - 12 times on the canvas
and then 8 - 12 times on the = leather.  Then=20 forget the whole idea and shave with a safety
or disposable razor.   = :) =20 Frank
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_00000075.01BED494-- ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jul 1999 07:13:44 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies Tony, Thank you for the kind remarks, "it did shine" and we will remember it for the rest of our lives, the best part was everyone we met was positive - not a negative person, different than what we all see on the "news" - all negative carp. Turtle mentioned "Canoe" magazine, we picked up a reporter from that publication in his fancy modern canoe clothes, made him put on what we had on - breeches, clouts and leggings, etc. Only let him take his small camera and note pad, he wanted his energy and junk food - but left them in his car. After a 150 miles with us he wasn't sure who's gear was better and wrote that in his article - that's cool. > Unfortunately I never had any company except for my dog, until I met my wife that > is (she is one in a million, even though she don't like fast water. My dog didn't either > for that matter.) A couple of people makes life much easier in many cases, that's great your lady goes along. > 3) I am researching a book that deals with the routes the native Americans > have been using to transport goods since approx. 3000 B.C. > Ironically, since many of the fur trade routes are the same routes native > americans used, I begin looking for these ancient prehistoric routes on the > fur trade routes. It will be interesting to read your findings on lost ancient routes, you may want to consider a GPS unit for locations, a metal detector for possible camp sites. > reminds me of the fact that the voyageurs where normally quite short and > subsequently had few back problems. We all got them (backs) and like mentioned before, modern man can't handle like loads of our forefathers, we just flat got soft after a dozen or more decades. Later Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory ________________________________________________________ Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write: The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403 ATTN: Jon Link The subscription for the journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. You will receive quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,. ________________________________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:39:16 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Senate Bill S1006 Thank you for telling this computer ignorant trapper what a URL is. Don't forget your state trappers assn. as well. Right now it is very hard to trap legally if at all in Arizona and Colorado, and many other states regularly stand at great risk of loosing their right to trap. TrapRJoe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:29:41 -0600 From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Brown Bess and stuff Hey hermanos y hermanas What's the going rate for a new (repro) Brown Bess? I guessed $600-$700 (DGW quotes), depending on the maker. We're talking assembly line quality here, not hand crafted. Just your garden variety repro Bess. What about a Charleville (same question)? I'm asking for a guy who might be considering using one in a Spanish Colonial (1780-1790s) exhibit, related to my earlier query on Spanish firearms. He wants to consider all options. I'm not a pre-1800 shooter. What accoutrements go with a Bess or Charleville, and what is the related cost for that as well? Any consensus on whether Charlevilles were or could have been used on the Spanish Borderlands frontier? TIA, HBC **************************************** Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jul 1999 15:49:44 -0700 From: Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: The Filibuster Is * On * Friends, Our low life elected officals are at it again, sign up for this mail list and give them more responses than they could ever dream of on "Gun Control". Smith is standing up for us, let him know your pleased, and screw Lott into the ground with complaints. Either we fight to keep what we got, or in a few years we sit around and cry about what we use to have, your choice ! Later Buck Conner Colorado Territory ____________________________________ From: Gun Owners of America Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:09:17 -0400 Senator Smith Throws Down the Gauntlet! -- Stands up to Trent Lott by forcing filibuster on anti-gun crime bill Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org (Friday, July 23, 1999) -- Majority Leader Trent Lott (R-MS) has set the Senate wheels in motion for a series of votes to stop Senator Bob Smith's filibuster on the juvenile crime legislation. The first vote has been set for Monday, July 26. So far, Senator Smith (I-NH) has prevented any progress on the anti-gun crime bill by promising to use the ancient art of "filibuster." Yesterday, that promise became reality when Smith objected to a motion by Sen. Lott to move the bill along. This is truly a David v. Goliath stand-off. The Senate leadership, led by the Majority Leader, is trying to roll Senator Smith and bring his delaying tactics to an end. Of course, Senator Lott must first clear at least six parliamentary "hurdles" that have been erected by Senator Smith. The key vote will occur on Wednesday or Thursday when the Senate will determine whether the Gore/Lautenberg gun control crime bill (S. 254) will move forward. That vote will be on an effort to shut down debate on Sen. Smith's filibuster-- known in Washington as "invoking cloture" on the filibuster-- and will decide whether Sen. Lott can substitute the virulently anti-gun crime bill (S. 254) in lieu of the crime bill that was passed by the House. Eventually, Senator Lott wants to send the crime legislation to a House-Senate conference committee to iron out the differences between the two bills. But that can only come after he's cleared the Smith "hurdles"-- a process that should take several days. Lott can clear each one of these hurdles with a 60-vote majority in the Senate. If that happens, President Clinton will be one step closer to signing a crime bill that is replete with gun bans and gun owner registration. But if our side gets 41 votes at any point along the way, then Senate rules will allow Smith to continue filibustering the bill-- which could entail his standing on the Senate floor and reading long passages from a library of pro-gun literature. You may want to tape this from C-Span and label it "Second Amendment books on tape by Senator Smith." Smith is willing to do that. He is committed to doing whatever it takes to defend the 2nd Amendment. But he needs 40 other Senators to stand with him! Again, Monday's vote will begin a whole series of votes on this issue. Each one is slightly different, and GOA will do its best to keep you informed as to what is coming down the pike. Until then, please start asking your Senators to support the Smith filibuster. Senator Smith is without question THE defender of 2nd Amendment rights in the Senate. Tell your Senator that you would like him or her to follow Smith's lead on the upcoming series of votes. CONTACT INFORMATION: * Toll-free at 1-888-449-3511. [Please be patient when calling this number; sometimes it rings for quite a while. But they will answer!] * The regular Capitol Switchboard number is 202-224-3121. * Fax and e-mail contact info is available at http://www.gunowners.org/s106th.htm on the GOA webpage. P.S. There has been quite a bit of confusion in the media as to what is actually transpiring on Monday. Some in the media are reporting that Monday's vote is about the appointment of Senate conferees. This is incorrect. Technically speaking, the purpose for Monday's vote in the Senate is to bring up the House crime bill (H.R. 1501) for debate. As stated above, Lott eventually wants to appoint conferees, but that will only happen if he can overcome every Smith filibuster. ************** Cheaper Than Dirt donates a percentage of your total order to GOA if you use http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/goa.htm to enter their online store. ************** Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to date information, please consider subscribing to the GOA E-Mail Alert Network directly. There is no cost or obligation, and the volume of mail is quite low. To subscribe, simply send a message to goamail@gunowners.org and include the state in which you live, in either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert and ask to be removed. _________________________________________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:00:40 EDT From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brown Bess and stuff I must be missing something - I thought a brown bess was a teapot that you picked up at woolworths for about 3 pounds sterling.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:51:24 -0500 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brown Bess and stuff - -----Original Message----- From: EmmaPeel2@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 6:05 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brown Bess and stuff Emma wrote: >>>I must be missing something - I thought a brown bess was a teapot that you picked up at woolworths for about 3 pounds sterling..<<< Emma, I just happened to have this handy. It's probably more than you really wanted to know, however I did find it interesting. From a article "The Flintlock... Father of Firearms" by Louis W. Stienwedel Snip>>> In the early years of the 18th century there evolved a flintlock musket that bridged the gap between the true ancient arms and the guns of today. This, the first official British army musket, was known more properely as"Her Majesty's Musket" or the "national weapon", but it quickly picked up the nickname of "Brown Bess". The origin of the pseudonym is obscure; a number of historians have explained it by the pickled brown barrel and the brownish walnut stock but this explanation seems to ignore the fact that guns had been finished in the same fashion for decades, indeed for centuries, before. But hassles over its title aside, the Brown Bess went forward with the Union Jack to the four points of the compass and quickly became the teeth behind the roar of the british lion. The boast that the sun never set on the British empire owed a generous measure of thanks to the persuasive qualities of the gun that rapidly became an instutution and lingered on, in various forms, for 139 years. Accounting for a bulk of some fourteen poiunds and a gangling length of some 60 inches-plus an inhospitable looking socket bayonet- Bess's facade was nothing less than ferocious.Mechanically, Bess was an aristocrat among military arms wich, like the rank and file of the contemparary armies themselves, were frequently the dregs of the market. In contrast to the "national weapons" of ather countries, which could not boast of such refinements until considerably later, the Brown Bess came equipped with a bridle lock which served to firmly hold the lockwork in perfect alignment for sure fire performance. Further improvements included a reinforced flashpan screw so that the frizzen and pan cover could not be bent out of place by repeated blows of the snpping cock. This greatly increased the longevity of the gun and forever squelched the argument that the flintlock was to fragile for the vicissitudes of military life. Caliber of the Bess was 76 (11 gauge) which, compared ot the tiny bores of today, begins to suggest artillery prorportions. However, regulations provided that the piece be loaded with a 71 caliber ball which, as anyone familiar with the ballistics of muzzleloaders will quickly realize, did nothing for accuracy since the powder charge sent the undersized, unpatched ball bouncing erratically down the barrel (With compression escaping around it)to strike unpredictably somewhere in the next few hundred feet. Despite it's unpretentious record of inaccuracy, the Bess was childs play to load with such an undersized bullet, so a British regular was able to get of as many as 6 shots a minute. Siezing upon this unequalled speed of fire, John Churchill introduced what amounted to mass production into military tactics. Massing a thousand regulars,Churchill could count on 6000 rounds of fire per minute issuing forth from a self sustaining sheet of orange flame and bluish smoke. In such a set up obviously the accuracy of a individual gun was'nt overly important, but it was through such tactics, plus the durable sure fire qualities of the Brown Bess, that a considerable measure of the British empire was won and held. Quite possibly the same success would have prevailed in the American affair of 1776 had it not been for the more rugged tree covered terrain wich hindered such strategy and a sufficient number of backwoodsmen with there slower loading but superbly accurate"long rifles" to make such a massing in the open-particularly with scarlet uniforms- a decidedly dangerous bussiness.<<< ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jul 99 20:57:39 -0600 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Senate Bill S1006 Reply to: Re: MtMan-List: Senate Bill S1006 Too late for Colorado. Trapping already banned. DON AND PHYLLIS KEAS ---LIving History Consultants TrapRJoe wrote: >Thank you for telling this computer ignorant trapper what a URL is. Don'= t = >forget your state trappers assn. as well. Right now it is very hard to = trap = >legally if at all in Arizona and Colorado, and many other states = regularly = >stand at great risk of loosing their right to trap. > > TrapRJoe > > > >RFC822 header >----------------------------------- > > Received: from lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7] by mail.market1.com with = ESMTP > (SMTPD32-5.01) id A9E969012A; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:44:09 -0600 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 117jMO-000546-00 > for hist_text-goout@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:43:52 -0600 > Received: from [198.81.17.68] (helo=3Dimo24.mx.aol.com) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1) > id 117jMM-00052m-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:43:50 -0600 > Received: from TrapRJoe@aol.com > by imo24.mx.aol.com (IMOv20.25) id fXYZa24272 (4422) > for ; Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:39:17 -0400 (= EDT) > From: TrapRJoe@aol.com > Message-ID: <1c799c93.24ca02c4@aol.com> > Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:39:16 EDT > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Senate Bill S1006 > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > X-RCPT-TO: > X-UIDL: 942 > Status: U > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:49:25 EDT From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Senate Bill S1006 Colorado's State Trapping Assn. is trying to get it back. They could sure use all the support they can get. If your from Colorado let me encourage you to join their assn. Their President is Al Davidson. He can be reached for information on how to join and what buckskinners can do, at P.O. Box 625, Saguache, CO 81149 Can you image the economic impact it would have on the state if buckskinners and sportsmen ban the state over this. Boy, what pressure. TrapRJoe ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 09:54:27 -0500 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies - -----Original Message----- From: Angela Gottfred To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, July 22, 1999 8:52 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies Angela wrote: >>Well, Le Vieux means "the old man", vieux means "old" (masculine), and desert is a masculine noun that can mean either "desert" or "wilderness". So it could be Old Man's Desert, Old Man's Wilderness, Old Desert, or Old Wilderness. Do the Native Americans in that area have an "Old Man" character in their traditions? << Thanks for the information. To my knowledge the native americans in that area do not have an old man character in there traditions, however it would not suprise me to learn that they have. This I will look into further. Your translation does bring to mind the fact that I have heard lake Le Vieux Desert reffered to as 'Old Plantation Lake'. >>Now, a 'pose' is different; it's a staging point. The voyageurs take their packs to the 'pose', dump them there, and go back empty to the last pose for another load. This enables you to keep an eye on the goods at either end of the pose, while carrying more goods than you could if you used your voyageurs like pack mules, carrying the same load from A to B.<< Another alternative to this type of portaging would have been to unload half of the cargo or all depending on the difficulty of the obstacle to pass, while the canoe would remain in the water and the rapids or obstacle forced. I forget what the French terminology for this particular maneuver is. At least this way the men who would otherwise have to carry the canoe got some respite, which was significant because I believe it took four men to carry a 36' canoe which weighed 600 (?) or so pounds, canoe upside down with two men to a side under the gunwales. It is my understanding that the Canadian fur trade also used a 25' canoe that was portaged in an upright position, the way it would sit on the water. Two men where able to carry it as it weighed approx. half of what a 36' did. >>One thing's for darn sure: you don't make such a long portage unless there's no other way. But I know that voyageurs would sometimes take extremely winding canoe routes--in one case, twelve miles of river travel took them just three straight miles from their starting point.<< Point well taken. Assuming that each voyageur was responsible for carrying about 6 packs in three loads, every mile of portage would have required 5 miles of travel,(3 trips out and 2 back). Then considering that the rate of travel over a portage was probably 3 mph and allowing some time for loading and unloading, a mile of portaging thus would take a total of 2 hours, or about one half mile per hour net. This would explain the use of a more roundabout water route especially for the larger canoes with the larger loads, however as payload size and canoe size is reduced, you reach a point where longer portages become more efficient I believe. One other factor is that many of the routes with longer portages that i have been describing may have been used after the stereotypical Canadian fur trade transportation systems had evolved into slightly different methods(post 1820). This may have been a result of increased traffic on these routes due to encroachment of civilization. In this region at that time most eyes may have been to the Western U.S., lots of factors to consider I'll be searching for more information about this in the near future. Thanks again, Tony Clark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:17:26 -0500 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies - -----Original Message----- From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 9:14 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies Buck wrote: >>Thank you for the kind remarks, "it did shine" and we will remember it for the rest of our lives<< Thats what it's aaall about, in my opinion. In the end the good memories (or bad for some) is mostly all a person has. >>A couple of people makes life much easier in many cases, that's great your lady goes along.<< Amen >>, you may want to consider a GPS unit for locations, a metal detector for possible camp sites.<< I don't use the GPS for the routes, however I do use it to find my way back to locations where these prehistoric americans had mined for copper. These can be way off the beaten path. BTW, the procurement and transportation of copper is what these routes were primarily used for at one time I believe. The use of copper for tools and ornamentation in WI and the U.P. of Michigan may be the oldest use of metals by people anywhere in the world. I have some rather sophisticated equipment for locating sites and features. I work with many professional archeologists from this region. I would like to learn more about your 1200 mile river trip. Would that be possible,and where could I find that article from 'Canoe' magazine? Any idea? Thanks, Tony Clark ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jul 1999 13:42:18 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies > On Sat, 24 July 1999, "northwoods" wrote: > Thats what it's all about, in my opinion. In the end the good > memories (or bad for some) is mostly all a person has. Isn't that the truth; my Dad use to tell me "you come into this world - bald, no teeth and messing your drawer's, when you leave your in about the same condition." I'd kind of like to keep my teeth, still like to eat. > I don't use the GPS for the routes, however I do use it to find my > way back to locations where these prehistoric americans had mined > for copper. These.......... > The use of copper for tools and ornamentation in WI and the U.P. > of Michigan may be the oldest use of metals by people anywhere in the world.......... I find this very interesting findings, such places as these mined areas and what they hold. > I would like to learn more about your 1200 mile river trip. Would > that be possible,and where could I find that article from 'Canoe' > magazine? Any idea? As for "Canoe" magazine it been out of print according to the gal I talked to at there office, she said that article made that issue one of there best sellers. I can make a copy if anyone ones to read it, send a self address-stamped, legal size envelope to my business address and I'll send you a copy of that article on that trip published in Canoe magazine. Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. P.O.Box 28168, 13111 W. Alameda Pkwy #16, Lakewood, CO 80228 I have a journal of this 1260 mile trip up on my computer if everyone would like it sent out ! Covers the total experience, period food, clothing, camp and equipage. Let's hear about these copper mines Tony and more on the camps and have you found anything of interest. Later Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory ________________________________________________________ Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write: The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403 ATTN: Jon Link The subscription for the journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. You will receive quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,. ________________________________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jul 1999 14:05:22 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Senate Bill S1006 Folks, The biggest problem is getting any group of any size to ban together in this state or any other in today's society. We have become a "what's in it for me" group of people, like it or not. I've played this game many many times with the Colorado State Muzzle Loading Assoc. We have mentioned them before on this list, Joe it's an up hill battle that is never played on even ground. Our elected officals hold the cards, deal the cards and call the winner (which will always be in their favor). I know what you mean, and it sounds wonderful to ban all sportsman together, tried that a few agree, and the rest just go on their merry way with their heads in the sand or somewhere else. I've tried anything from meetings with free cook-outs to just ass-ripping articles, your talking to the masses with deaf ears. This has been over a 25-30 year period of telling them how their "rights" are going out the window by the "do-gooders", now after that long a period we're starting to see the bottom line. That's why I put the "Gun Owners of America" on this list, I reply to the various parties on these alerts, surprising as it may be 90% of these elected officals will respond to your e-mails if you give them you address. Of course I'm probably on every "Sh... List" they pass around among themselves. I also write to the ones that are standing up against gun control, like Smith, and tell them what a great job they are doing and will be remembered at election. It takes a little of your time to do this, but if we don't - you may want to take lots of pictures of your weapons, traps ,etc. because that may be all you have to look at down the road. This applies in the USA now, not just in Colorado folks, its time to wake up and be heard, hope its not to late ??? Later Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party/Colorado Territory ________________________________________________________ Get a subscription to a journal of the fur trade and early history of the times, the one the American Mountain Men read and write: The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires * Conklin, MI 49403 ATTN: Jon Link The subscription for the journal is $20 for a year or $35 for two years. You will receive quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,. ________________________________________________________ > On Sat, 24 July 1999, TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: > Colorado's State Trapping Assn. is trying to get it back.They > could sure use all the support they can get. If your from Colorado > let me encourage you to join their assn. Their President is > Al Davidson. He can be reached for information on how to join and > what buckskinners can do, at P.O. Box 625, Saguache, CO 81149 > Can you image the economic impact it would have on the state if > buckskinners and sportsmen ban the state over this. Boy, what > pressure. > TrapRJoe Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 17:15:08 EDT From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anomalies Buck, I'd sure like to read that 'canoe trip' journal. Please e-mail it to rr1la@aol.com. Thanks, Barney Fife ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 16:44:49 -0500 From: kestrel@ticon.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List:copper (off topic) >I don't use the GPS for the routes, however I do use it to find my >way back to locations where these prehistoric americans had mined >for copper. These can be way off the beaten path. BTW, the >procurement and transportation of copper is what these routes were >primarily used for at one time I believe. The use of copper for >tools and ornamentation in WI and the U.P. of Michigan may be the >oldest use of metals by people anywhere in the world. I have some >rather sophisticated equipment for locating sites and features. I >work with many professional archeologists from this region. Tony, while the copper was mined up there much of it found its way as far south as Cahokia (near St. Louis) in Ill. I think it was traded even farther south,west,and east. A few years ago the Logan Museum of Anthropology had an exibit on prehistoric trade routes in North America. It seems that the copper mines you mentioned were the source of the most easily traceable trade item. Jeff Powers A mind like a steel trap;rusty and illegal in 37 states! ARE YOU READY?.......TO MEET THE KING? Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Test Drive ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #334 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.