From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #349 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, August 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 349 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver?? -       Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines -       Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines -       MtMan-List: more on wolverine/glutton -       Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines -       Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines -       Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? -       Re: MtMan-List: nuff said -       Re: MtMan-List: Beaver?? -       Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick -       Re: MtMan-List: musquash, misquash.etc -       Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover -       Re: MtMan-List: Oatmeal -       Re: MtMan-List: nuff said -       Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines -       Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover -       Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? -       Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? -       MtMan-List: Trading Site -       Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? -       Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Bicentennial Reenactment -       Re: MtMan-List: Trading Site -       Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 20:10:36 -0500 From: Keith and Linda Lawyer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------65EAAA2991B89128A1B92F32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The most ferocious mammal in North America pound for pound is the shrew. - --------------65EAAA2991B89128A1B92F32 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="lmlawyer.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Keith and Linda Lawyer Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="lmlawyer.vcf" begin:vcard n:Lawyer;Keith & Linda x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:lmlawyer@disd.net x-mozilla-cpt:;-1 fn:The Lawyers in Denison, Texas end:vcard - --------------65EAAA2991B89128A1B92F32-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:54:57 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver?? I felt badly about not having sources for my posting on "coat beaver" and "beaver coats". A dip into my library has turned up the following sources, which confirm what I was saying earlier. pp. 76-77, Arthur Ray. "When Two Worlds Met", in _The Illustrated History of Canada_, 1st ed., pp. 16-104, Craig Brown (ed.). Lester & Orpen Dennys : Toronto, 1987. Ray writes, "Two types of beaver pelts were bought from Indians - coat beaver, called 'castor gras' [greasy beaver] by the French, and parchment beaver, or 'castor sec' [dry beaver]. In the sixteenth century, only the Russians had mastered the technique of extracting the long guard hairs from parchment beaver pelts so the under-wool could be separated from the skin...Coat beaver, on the other hand, was second-hand, already worn by the Indians as winter coats. In the course of wearing the furs with the hair side turned inward, and scarping and rubbing them with animal marrow to oil and soften them, the Indians had worn off the guard hairs. The under-wool could now be easily removed from the skins, which meant the pelts could be processed directly by western European feltmakers... By the end of the eighteenth century, western European feltmakers had learned the Russian secret and parchment beaver became the preferred pelt because it was of more even quality than coat beaver. By the middle of the nineteenth century coat beaver was no longer in much demand..." You can find much of the same information in: p. 14, Harold A. Innis. _The Fur Trade in Canada_ University of Toronto Press : Toronto, 1999. Reprint of 1956 edition, with revised foreword from 1962 edition, and a new introductory essay for 1999 by Arthur Ray. pp. 8-9, Daniel A. Francis & Toby Morantz. _Partners in Furs : A History of the Fur Trade in Eastern James Bay_. McGill-Queen's University Press : Montreal, 1983 Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:08:32 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines I thought it was the Ant Lion...you know, the doodle-bug. - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Keith and Linda Lawyer To: Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 8:10 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines > The most ferocious mammal in North America pound for pound is the = shrew. >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:33:32 -0700 From: mkDragon Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines Sounds like wolverines are hell on wheels. Buck, you got that right. Take a look at a cache the way they are built in Alaska sometime. They are built that way more to keep wolverines out than bears. This is not easy to do. I would bet you that, pound for pound, wolverines are stronger than even the biggest griz, and they have NO fear of anything on this earth. It is no wonder that a bear will step aside for a wolverine. Take about 50 lbs of pure muscle, bone, teeth, claws and a real bad attitude and there is a wolverine. They can tear up a cabin worse than any bear. I wouldn't even *think* of trying to trap a wolverine with anything short of logging chains and dynamite. A wolverine would be the first to chew off a foot and go its merry way, only meaner than before. I've only seen them at a distance, except in a zoo and I guarantee you I'd step aside! Say, about half a mile aside. I'd take a sow griz with a sore paw any day! Am I a coward? Wanna see my card? :) Butch - -- Sometimes the need to mess with their heads outweighs the millstone of humiliation. -Fox Mulder ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:48:12 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: MtMan-List: more on wolverine/glutton This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEE2B0.E0A0AB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The notion that a wolverine drops onto its prey from tree limbs is not = new. Here are three entries in the 1828 Webster's dictionary. ymos Lanney R GLUT'TON, n. glut'n. [Low L. gluto.] One who indulges to excess in = eating. 1. One eager of any thing to excess. Gluttons in murder, wanton to destroy. 2. In zoology, an animal of the genus Ursus, found in the N. of Europe = and Siberia. It grows to the length of three feet,but has short legs and = moves slowly. It is a carnivorous animal, and in order to catch its = prey, it climbs a tree and from that darts down upon a deer or other = animal. It is names from its voracious appetite. CARCAJO, n. The glutton, a voracious carnivorous animal. WOLVERIN, WOLVERENE, n. The glutton, a carnivorous animal of voracious = appetite. The name wolverene is applied to an animal of North America, = considered by Linne as a peculiar species, (Ursus luscus, ) but which = has been since regarded as a variety of the glutton, (U. Gulo.) - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEE2B0.E0A0AB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The notion that a wolverine drops onto its prey from tree limbs is = not=20 new.  Here are three entries in the 1828 Webster's = dictionary.
ymos
Lanney R
 
GLUT'TON, n.  glut'n.  [Low L. gluto.]  One who = indulges to=20 excess in eating.
1.  One eager of any thing to=20 excess.
 Gluttons in murder, wanton to destroy.
2.  In = zoology,=20 an animal of the genus Ursus, found in the N. of Europe and Siberia. It = grows to=20 the length of three feet,but has short legs and moves slowly.  It = is a=20 carnivorous animal, and in order to catch its prey, it climbs a tree and = from=20 that darts down upon a deer or other animal.  It is names from its=20 voracious appetite.
CARCAJO, n.  The glutton, a voracious carnivorous = animal.
WOLVERIN, WOLVERENE, n. The glutton, a carnivorous animal of = voracious=20 appetite. The name wolverene is applied to an animal of North America,=20 considered by Linne as a peculiar species, (Ursus luscus, ) but which = has been=20 since regarded as a variety of the glutton, (U. = Gulo.)
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01BEE2B0.E0A0AB20-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:11:18 EDT From: RR1LA@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines i've also heard that pound for pound the only thing more ferocious than a raccoon is the wolverine. i've seen coons rip open hav-a-heart traps and turn steel to mush. i'd say they are both among the most ferocious critters in north america. never heard anything about the shrew, but the name gives me a clue . Barney ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:16:06 -0500 From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines Pound for pound I'm the most ferocious.... Oh, sorry couldn't resist! What's a shrew? You gotta watch them trapped coons! They act all subdued till you get close enough then look-out!!! Dull Hawk - ---------- > From: RR1LA@aol.com > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines > Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 10:11 PM > > i've also heard that pound for pound the only thing more ferocious than a > raccoon is the wolverine. i've seen coons rip open hav-a-heart traps and > turn steel to mush. i'd say they are both among the most ferocious critters > in north america. never heard anything about the shrew, but the name gives me > a clue . Barney > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:41:11 -0700 From: terry l landis Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:14:08 -0600 Allen Hall writes: >Has anyone got or seen a TVM trade gun? I'm thinking real serious >about >getting one. Based on their other stuff, I will, but I'd like the >input. > >Thanks ahead of time, > >Allen Hall in Fort Hall country > >Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country > > well here we go. i bought a tvm Virginia style riffle. swamped barrel and iron furniture. it took 41/2 months to get here and when i got it the total price was 946.00 smackers. i like it but i could have got the same quality of workmanship from a kit gun for 1/3 less. i guess i was expecting perfection at that price. i was pretty green at the time, but quality is quality. I'M not saying that jack makes "bad" riffles, just that whoever made mine was not as fully involved as i would be building my own. if you want the full details contact me off list and I'll be happy to tell you about it. YMHS, "Ephraim" Terry Landis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:52:45 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: nuff said This is an old one. TTBOMK, this is urban legend. Anybody out there on the list know otherwise? I think I've seen this one about once a year since I got online 5-6 years ago. On Sun, 08 Aug 1999 14:13:01 -0700, you wrote: >>=20 >> Darwin Awards=20 >> The Darwin nominees are in again. (This is the award bestowed upon >> the >> people who have helpfully removed themselves from the gene pool by = their own efforts. > >> NOMINEE No. 6: [The Indianapolis Star]: A cigarette lighter may have >> trig-=20 >> gered a fatal explosion. A Jay County man, using a lighter to check >> the >> barrel of a muzzleloader, was killed when the weapon discharged in >> his >> face.=20 >> Sheriff investigators said Gregory David Pryor died in his parents' >> rural Dunkirk home while cleaning a 54-caliber muzzleloader that had >> not >> been firing properly. He was using the lighter to look into the >> barrel >> when the=20 >> gunpowder ignited. > > > Butch Roy Parker We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks = to the internet, we know this is not true. =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:02:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Beaver?? On Sat, 7 Aug 1999 TrapRJoe@aol.com wrote: > 24 wifes? All of mixed blood or indain, some have said on this list? Seems > doutful. Hallo Trapper From my readings, and the information posted by the knowledgable Angela... it was not uncommon at all for trappers to take their Metis/Indian wifes and children with them. After all, they were gone for a year at a crack, and women made life much easier by preparing camps, meals, working hides, etc... additionally, life on the move for a trapping brigade... probably wasn't that different from what the Indian women knew at home (that last is my opinion mind you). My wife, on the other hand, is up in arms because I put a drying braintan project (elk hide) up to dry in our bathroom... seems the apparently strong oder of dead things hadn't quite worn off yet. I will probably be sleeping with the dogs tonight ;-) Regards Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho NMLRA member 058863 email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 04:06:13 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Glue stick Isenglass is still available, although the original isenglass, especially that made (AIR-as I recall) from the sturgeon bladder is quite expensive and hard to get. =20 Substitutes from other fish bladders, and even synthetics are avialable at various home brew and winemaking shops. I've never made a brew or wine bad enough to need it, so I don't know any more than it is commercially available. =20 (Those at the SW in 1996 may recall my efforts at an IPA (which I've won awards at, but not for the batch in the following discussion) and think that that particular brew needed fish bladders to improve it, but the problem was that I got distracted during the hops addition, and ended up with 130 IBU of bitterness instead of 65. I thought it was still pretty good, along about December of the following year, but some of you may be right in that adding a fish to the mug might have cut the tang just a bit. I do know that large additions of tequila helped.) On Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:18:35 EDT, you wrote: ><< I'SINGLASS, n. i'zinglass. [that is, ise or ice-glass.] > A substance consisting chiefly of gelatin, of a firm texture and = whitish=20 >color, prepared from the sounds or air-bladders of certain fresh water=20 >fishes, particularly of the huso, a fish of the sturgeon kind, found in = the=20 >rivers of Russia. It is used as an agglutinant and in fining wines. >=20 > I wonder what available substance would substitute? >> > >I believe you can still buy it at wine and beer maker shops. It is = still=20 >used to clarify wine and beer. So you may not need a substitute. > >Your Humble Servant > >C.T. Oakes Roy Parker We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks = to the internet, we know this is not true. =20 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:36:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: musquash, misquash.etc On Sun, 8 Aug 1999, Mike Rock wrote: > musquash, misquash = muskrats Ahhhh, I had thought that might be it, but didna wish to show my ignorance any more that I usually do :) Regards Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho NMLRA member 058863 email at lnewbill@uidaho.edu Keeper of the "Buckskins & Blackpowder!" Webpage http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/7186 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:56:45 -0700 From: Huber Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover Tom, An article by Gary Mueller in BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING IV indicates that: "Gun cases were also made of wool. Nothing beats wool to repel water and moisture, therefore helping keep you and your gun dry and warm." He cites a lot of works at the end of the article but quotes nothing specific to back up this assumption. I carry my trade gun in a wool case similar to the one pictured in this article. I had heard that new guns were often shipped to a buyer in woolen cases but I can't remember the source I read this in. The article goes into some detail on colors styles and prices paid for point blankets, etc. Worth reading. Shoots-the-Prairie Larry Huber At 09:16 PM 8/8/99 -0400, you wrote: >After searching the E-mail archives, my meager library, and a few other >sources and coming up empty, I pose this question: >Is there any correct style, construction, color, etc for a gun cover >made from a wool blanket, or is this something that has >too many possible variations to be wrong. I suspect there are probably >no originals around to see. Any ideas or thoughts before I put the >knife to this old moth-eaten dirty red blanket? > >Thanx, Tom > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:05:02 -0700 From: Huber Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Oatmeal I take McCann's Irish Oatmeal with me when I go on the ground. You have to boil the hell out of it to get a meal but the taste is worth it. I prefer them to corn meal mush. These are "cut oats" not rolled. Just chopped kernels. Shoots-the-Prairie Larry Huber At 08:19 AM 8/9/99 -0700, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: >On Sun, 08 August 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > >> >> > On Fri, 06 August 1999, Mike Rock wrote: >> > On the previous post about oats..my desire is to be able to >> >'roll my own', oats, that is....anyone who knows a reference, >> > or how, holler, please! >> > >> > Mike Rock >> >> >> Mike, >> I called Buck's house this morning, his wife said he got called into work, so I grabbed what was on his web site under: >> >> CEREALS AND MEALS >> blue corn meal, >> blended meal, >> barley grits, >> rye-rolled, >> corn grits, >> oats-rolled, >> oats-steel cut, >> wheat-coarse, >> corn meal, >> millet meal. >> >> Nothing shown for oat meal, but does show oats-rolled, oats-steel, I'll try him later to night. >> >> Turtle. >> >...................................... > >Mike and Turtle, > >What Turtle has shown; is the most common reference found from supply and trade lists; 1750 Pennsylvania German for steel-cut oats, and 1820 northeast lists for rolled oats. > >Earlier dates have been found on a few lists, but not enough reference to say it was a commonly traded grain. This is not surprising as record keeping was not kept as accurately as in later years when competition had become a factor. > >When you look at either; steel-cut or rolled oats when boiled, they both look close to a course oat meal, this is probably what you may want Mike. > > > >Later, >Buck Conner >dba / Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. >http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ >_____________________________________ >NOW AVAILABLE a journal of the Fur Trade >and early history of the times. AMM journal > >The Tomahawk & Long Rifle * 3483 Squires * >Conklin, MI 49403 >ATTN: Jon Link > >The subscription for T&LR is $20 for a year - >quarterly issues - Feb, May, Aug, Nov,. >_____________________________________ > > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:32:48 -0700 From: mkDragon Subject: Re: MtMan-List: nuff said Roy Parker wrote: > > This is an old one. TTBOMK, this is urban legend. Anybody out there > on the list know otherwise? I think I've seen this one about once a > year since I got online 5-6 years ago. > I expect it is. Who cares? I've known people like this. Besides, it made me laugh. "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." If everything were real, what fun would life be? Butch :) - -- "What is a champion? To me, a champion isn't someone who never loses or falls down. It's someone who gets back up. Someone who has heart."-- "Michelle Kwan, refering to Chen Lu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 06:30:57 -0500 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines A shrew is a tiny little mouse looking varmit that lives in leaf litter, = etc and has a very high metabolism. This requires that he eat more or = less constantly.....about his body weight each day, if I remember = correctly....and he plays hell with bugs. If it moves, he attacks and = eats it. He would be a dangereous rascal indeed if he were much bigger = than your thumb. Lanney R - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Douglas Hepner To: Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 10:16 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines > Pound for pound I'm the most ferocious.... Oh, sorry couldn't = resist! > What's a shrew? You gotta watch them trapped coons! They act all = subdued > till you get close enough then look-out!!!=20 >=20 > Dull Hawk >=20 > ---------- > > From: RR1LA@aol.com > > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: trapping wolverines > > Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 10:11 PM > >=20 > > i've also heard that pound for pound the only thing more ferocious = than a >=20 > > raccoon is the wolverine. i've seen coons rip open hav-a-heart = traps and >=20 > > turn steel to mush. i'd say they are both among the most ferocious > critters=20 > > in north america. never heard anything about the shrew, but the name > gives me=20 > > a clue . Barney > >=20 > >=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 1999 06:56:02 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Gun Cover On Mon, 09 August 1999, Huber wrote: > > Tom, > An article by Gary Mueller in BOOK OF BUCKSKINNING IV indicates that: "Gun > cases were also made of wool. Nothing beats wool to repel water and > moisture, therefore helping keep you and your gun dry and warm." He cites > a lot of works at the end of the article but quotes nothing specific to > back up this assumption. I carry my trade gun in a wool case similar to > the one pictured in this article. I had heard that new guns were often > shipped to a buyer in woolen cases but I can't remember the source I read > this in. The article goes into some detail on colors styles and prices > paid for point blankets, etc. Worth reading. > > Shoots-the-Prairie Larry Huber > ______________________________ The biggest problem with wool is if moisture gets on the gun and its put in the wool case, the wool will hold the moisture and within 24 hours or less you have a nice rusted gun. We have found when around water, canoe trips, etc. one is better off to remove the weapon and carry it out of the case, before putting it back in the case - make sure case is dry, wipe the gun down with a light coat of oil. Leather cases are worst yet. Turtle. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 1999 07:02:58 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? On Mon, 09 August 1999, terry l landis wrote: > > > > On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:14:08 -0600 Allen Hall writes: > >Has anyone got or seen a TVM trade gun? I'm thinking real serious > >about > >getting one. Based on their other stuff, I will, but I'd like the > >input. > > > >Thanks ahead of time, > > > >Allen Hall in Fort Hall country > > > >Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country > > > > > well here we go. i bought a tvm Virginia style riffle. swamped barrel and > iron furniture. > it took 41/2 months to get here and when i got it the total price was > 946.00 smackers. > i like it but i could have got the same quality of workmanship from a kit > gun for 1/3 less. > i guess i was expecting perfection at that price. i was pretty green at > the time, but quality is quality. ............... The last smoothbore Jack built me will be the last, period. Poor wood to metal fit, think one of his newbee's did the work, unhappy enough that I glass bedded questionable areas and traded it off. Turtle. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:14:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Frank V. Rago" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? I must say I am suprised at TVM's decreasing rep. Although I do not have one of his guns all the old timers I have talked to in the past told me that if I was going to get one custom that Jack was the man and that even his kits are good ones. I am just wondering if any of ya'll that had a bad exp. with his guns or work have asked for him to fix, replace or take care of the problem. This is a small world and an even smaller buckskinning community and a bad rep is not good. I would rather make less money and have an excellant rep than more money and a bad one. Just my thoughts. At 07:02 AM 8/10/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 09 August 1999, terry l landis wrote: > >> >> >> >> On Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:14:08 -0600 Allen Hall writes: >> >Has anyone got or seen a TVM trade gun? I'm thinking real serious >> >about >> >getting one. Based on their other stuff, I will, but I'd like the >> >input. >> > >> >Thanks ahead of time, >> > >> >Allen Hall in Fort Hall country >> > >> >Allen Hall #1729 from Fort Hall country >> > >> > >> well here we go. i bought a tvm Virginia style riffle. swamped barrel and >> iron furniture. >> it took 41/2 months to get here and when i got it the total price was >> 946.00 smackers. >> i like it but i could have got the same quality of workmanship from a kit >> gun for 1/3 less. >> i guess i was expecting perfection at that price. i was pretty green at >> the time, but quality is quality. ............... > > The last smoothbore Jack built me will be the last, period. Poor wood to metal fit, think one of his newbee's did the work, unhappy enough that I glass bedded questionable areas and traded it off. > Turtle. > > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:19:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Frank V. Rago" Subject: MtMan-List: Trading Site Howdy All, Wondering if any of you know of a good buckskinner trading site. I have come across a couple years of old Muzzle Blasts mags and don't really feel right about selling them but I would trade'm. Any info would be greatley appreciated. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:30:16 -0400 From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? if you are unhappy with TVM suggest you look at the caywood trade gun---good quality and totally built by him---including all the parts---all investment cast and fully interchangeable in the parts---from gun # 1 to present and he ships 2 or 3 guns a day--- and a but cheeper than the TVM and good quality. "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: 10 Aug 1999 07:52:43 -0700 From: Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis & Clark Bicentennial Reenactment On Mon, 09 August 1999, buck.conner@uswestmail.net wrote: > > > On Sun, 08 August 1999, JON MARINETTI wrote: > > > > Is anything like this remotely possible? > > > > Are any of the 500 or so active AMM brothers exploring this? Maybe give > > guided tours of the most important sections of the trails? Are any of > > the trails currently marked in any manner? > > > > C-SPAN is currently doing a series on The 41 U.S. Presidents - > > travelling to all the historic places associated with each - > > interviewing their descendants - having historical scholars answer > > phoned-in questions. Maybe C-SPAN and the AMM could work together on > > something similar for the Corps of Discovery Bicentennial? > > > > Can't think of another group that has any more practical experience and > > knowledge of these events than those on this list. > ........................................................ > Jon, > > But as a member of a small group of adventures have traveled from Ft. Benton MT to Ft. de Chartres ILL and all points in between. Then in another group years before have traveled from Phila. PA to Ft. Osage, both groups where doing apprx. 1805-1810 time periods, equipage, food, etc. > > This has taken myself a 30 year period of a few weeks to a month at a time compared to the couple of years of the original adventure. There are several that have done the whole experience from sea to shinging sea in following in the footsteps of L&C or other greats. > > __________________________________________ Like Buck - several of us have followed the L&C trail, made several of the trips that Buck mentioned over the years, haven't had the time, money or get up and go that he and a few others have had lately. Have really enjoyed the Upper Missouri and Yellowstone rivers over the years. Can't believe what going on the Mississippi would be like in a canoe, but the small groups have done this and more. Turtle. Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:04:03 -0400 From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trading Site adison miller on the mlml chat just opened up a tradeing site---no cost to you or the buyer---he will post your stuff on his board---his e-mail address is ad.miller@mindsprings.com (I hope that is correct)--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:19:23 -0400 (EDT) "Frank V. Rago" writes: >Howdy All, > >Wondering if any of you know of a good buckskinner trading site. I >have >come across a couple years of old Muzzle Blasts mags and don't really >feel >right about selling them but I would trade'm. Any info would be >greatley >appreciated. > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 11:00:57 -0400 From: Michael Pierce Subject: Re: MtMan-List: TVM Trade Gun? turtle and all suggest if you are upset with TVM call jack gardner and discuss the problem with him---(in a cival manner) (VBG) ---explaining what the total problem is and then going into detail---as a maker and as a reputable dealer he will listen and then give you some options---badmouthing a guy before you try to work out a problem is not my way of working but who am i to say how to do things (BG)---I dont own a TVM or have seen one lately but they usto be of pretty good quality and you usually got what you paid for---the price you quoted the gun should be of good quality and I can see how a person could be upset---the usuall problem with most buyers is that the wood is not as figured or as pretty as they think they should be( wood gradeing by the suppliers has changed over the last few years)---if the fit of the components is bad then that can only be fixed by replacement---I am sure he would talk that over with you and ask you to return the gun for exchange or refund as from what i know of he is a reliable dealer---I know my policy on my work is if you dont like it send it back (If you want your money back send it back in the condition recieved by you and I will totally refund ) or if I can fix it for you I will but if you screw with it then it's your problem and I cant help you. quality is quality and what one person believes is good is sometimes only average or below average to another---so the solution I see is the l"lets talk this situation over" then when you open up communications you can get to the total brunt of the problem---had one guy that ordered a gun and said he wanted the wood dark---I did it that way when he got the gun he called me mad as a hornet---said the good wood doesnt have any figure curl or stripe that is noticable. He started out with the fit of the components is terrible, and the quality of workmanship is terrable---then after talking I found out it was just too dark to suit him was in actuality the only real problem--had him ship it back at my expense---redid the finish and shipped it back---he called and thanked me for replacing the wood and that the quality of inletting was outstanding---"same gun and same wood only refinished" I called him after i got his note and explained what i had done and he didnt believe me ---said it was a different gun even wanted to argue over that---finally just agreed with him he did have a new gun "finish that is". the key is to open up a channel to the maker and discuss the problem---if you aint happy then do something about it--- sorry for this disertation but this is a pet peve of mine---talk to me if you are unhappy I try to set the customer first---I believe that TVM would do the same thing---(GBG) now im' off this soapbox---and back to the shop making turkey calls for the fall season and trying to fill back orders and promised calls--- "Hawk" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor, florida 34684 1-(727) 771-1815 E-MAIL ADDRESS: HAWKNEST4@juno.com On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:14:46 -0400 (EDT) "Frank V. Rago" writes: >I must say I am suprised at TVM's decreasing rep. Although I do not >have >one of his guns all the old timers I have talked to in the past told >me that >if I was going to get one custom that Jack was the man and that even >his >kits are good ones. I am just wondering if any of ya'll that had a >bad exp. >with his guns or work have asked for him to fix, replace or take care >of the >problem. This is a small world and an even smaller buckskinning >community >and a bad rep is not good. I would rather make less money and have an >excellant rep than more money and a bad one. Just my thoughts. > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #349 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.