From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #383 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, September 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 383 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) -       Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) -       MtMan-List: illness from copper pot -       Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:24:45 EDT From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots This is no documentation, but I was once told by the Rep. for Comoy & Co., a maker of pewter flasks, that the same things that will screw up your cast iron (acidic foods and/or liquids) will also leach bad things out of both copper and pewter. I guess this would include any tomato or alcohol based products. A pewter flask comes with a warning not to leave alcoholic contents in for more than 12 hours, and tomato sauce will kill the seasoning in a cask iron piece of cookware. Personal experience has confirmed that both of these are true. Barn ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 10:49:16 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). On Wed, 29 September 1999, R Lahti wrote: > > > Cap, > > I usually figure a cupped hand-full of: > > > > corn meal (per person)mixed with Hanava sugar, > > wild rice (same measurement per person), > > barley-pearled (same measurement per person), > > split peas (same measurement per person), > > fruit [dried apples or peaches](same measurement per person), > > dried meat strips broken into 3" pieces (same measurement per person), > > parched corn w/local nuts (same measurement per person), > > tea (same measurement per person, lasts for 3-4 days) a little on the weak side last day. > > _____________________________ > > > > This has worked for a 5 day outing, moving around camp, scouting, etc. but only lasts about 3 hard days of paddling (hard work will use up your supplies very fast). > > _____________________________ > > Buck, > > That's a bit more varied a list of ingredients that I or my fellows > carry. Might we impose on you as to how you utilize those items in meals > over the course of a weekend or week's period of time, as in recipe's > and for which meals and how many meals, etc.? I remain.... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' ______________________________________________ Cap., Lets start with the measurement for a "cupped hand-full" = ( 1) measuring cup. This doesn't sound like much, I agree, but remember most dried edibles do swell when water is added. Rice, barley and peas will double in size or amount prepared. Most of us (not all) can go with less food from a few days to several weeks without any problem - doctors will tell you that the amount we eat regularly is a mind-set in most cases, we can do with less and would probably do better weight and health wise anyway. We try to eat two small regular meals daily, gathering or foraging for edibles in our short trips around camp when scouting game or looking at the area. When you get in a mind-set of watching for edibles as you make your scouts, it's surprising what you find, even if not hunting for squirrel, rabbits or flying foul. Wild edibles are everwhere it's just the problem of figuring out what your looking at. Working around water is always a good place for small plants that are edible, as well as the little crawl fish, fish and small animals getting a drink. I think you are getting the idea or already do this in your normal outing experiences. I have a good friend that I wrote an article about a few years ago in the T&LR journal Dr. Jerry LaVelle, he's an expert at foraged edibles in the Rockies, takes a small frying pan, buffalo grease, period fishing kit and he's off for the weekend. His wife gets a little rattled about his limited resources, but he uses what is available at hand, cat-tail flour for bread (bannock), has different plant leaves for a salad and so on, she's good for about two weekends like this a year. But it can be done, so she goes to prove that she's a tough as he is !!!! I wish I had the mind-set, the ability or guts to believe enough in myself to do this as much as he has. Morning meal: corn meal w/Havana Brown sugar,(Havana Brown is an old sugar [less costly than white sugar in the colonial days] have switch to blue corn - better taste) 1/2 cup per person with water, a few small pieces of fruit and small amount of tea (save the tea leaves), (forgot to put down two hand-fulls of corn flour last night), use a 1/2 cup per person of flour to make "bannock" bread (will produce a loaf per say the size of a regular hot dog). Surprisingly this will satisfy you, no matter what your brain says. Aftrenoon snack: some parched corn, a little fruit and whatever you may find in your travels. Evening meal: with a little testing you will be able to judge the amount of rice or barley needed to make a small portion, and not waste anything. We have used mixed small amount of wild rice, barley-pearled, split peas and a little jerky (changing the meal of one or two items) to make a stew, make with a little more water than what your wife would use - fills you up with the broth. Use your used tea leaves for a mild tea flavor. Use any left overs and try and eat late in the evening (going to bed on a full belly). Don't forget what you have foraged during the day that can be prepared to supplement your evening or morning meal. Our biggest problem seems to be mind-set that we are going to starve, hell you'll die from lack of water long before you'll starve. An old friend (in his mid 70s') had a heart attack, had been very active all his farming life, he refused any medical care when he found it was possible he would not walk again, his doctor respected his wishes and had him taken home. I would visit him in the evenings, he refused food and liquids and it took him 14 days to die. The lack of liquid is what shut him down, he only lost a few pounds in that period. So the chance of you doing great harm on a weekend or a week from the lack of food is really not a major problem according to most doctors, unless you have medical problems, special medication, etc. that may require you to use with food. But do make sure you keep liquids in your system, plus a good drank of water is some what filling by it's self. This all sounds great, right. Well it's easier to write or tell it - than when packing for that adventure, you'll find yourself cheating and adding this and that - just in case. You'll stop and think and remember that first hunting trip (a day long) and all the extra stuff you took that Dad told you wasn't needed, well just in case. The big thing Cap. is do some testing the night the wife had to work late, make up a meal, simple - small in amount, bottom line is testing brother. With your experience you'll have know problem, it's just that mind-set that we all fight with. I'm always packing and unpacking different amounts, if you take just so much - small amount of food, and leave out "the just in case" factor. Then your options are get along with what you got and start foraging. I wrote Bill Klesinger (web master) for the Jim Baker Party web site, and he will put that article on "Edibles of the Rockies" on the site this weekend if everything goes OK. This may give you some ideas about foraging and what the wild plants have to offer each and everyone of us. Keep in touch friends. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:56:34 EDT From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) In a message dated 9/30/1999 2:35:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sabella3@earthlink.net writes: > I think too it might depend on how large your hand it...mine is small...even > I'd starve to death if I had to use that as a measure.. sounds like time for the old rationing trick: 1 for me, 1 for you, 2 for me, 1 for you, 3 for me, 1 for you..... Barn. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:02:59 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots > There ought to be someone on this list who could tell us if it's the copper > or the stuff it gets soldered together with that makes the difference eh? Any time a base metal and an acid are combined, you will get water and the salt of the metal. Almost all copper salts are harmful to man. Remember, they put copper sulphate in ponds to kill the fish. Same goes for any lead content in pewter. The green buildup you get on copper, aka verdigris, is poisonous. Copper water pipes don't form these salts unless an acid is run through them. The lead you get from the solder is free lead, which is also harmful. Heavy metals tend to accumulate in the body over time. Usually small intermittent exposures won't cause any harm, but repeated exposure will. Dave Kanger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:17:50 -0500 From: "Texan" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots I believe that I have mentioned once before that I am a medical/biochemistry researcher. I'm also a health consultant. All my new clients get a screening for metal toxicity. Metal toxicity is rampant nowdays. Unless a person is fortunate to get the right kind of testing and ACCURATE interpretation of those test results, they can be diagnosed as being a hypochondriac, having arthritis, or having many other common conditions such as heart problems, and even psychological problems. (Metal toxicity disrupts brain chemistry). The question is..... with exposure to copper, lead, mercury, chemicals etc.-"why aren't we all dead?" Some people are. You can have two people exposed to the same environmemt, one becomes ill with metal or chemical toxicity, the other one does fine. The difference lies in the individual's ability to detoxify and excrete the toxic substance. Diet, nutritional status, genetic inheritance, stress, health of the liver and immune system-all are important factors in how the body will deal with toxic exposures. Along with this discussion on copper is the issue of lead contamination with those of you all that "live" with your guns, especially those who were/are in the military. Lead, along with other heavy metals, is a cumulative posion that is retained in the body. Even at low levels, lead that is not excreted through the digestive system accumlates in the body and is absorbed directly from the blood into other tissues, there to do damage--sublty and insidiously. Children are at especial risk. They absorb 25 to 40 percent more lead per pound of body weight than adults. What would be a "safe" exposure for adults would be dangerous for children. Also, the body cannot distinguish between calcium and lead. Once lead enters the body, it is assimilated in the same manner as calcium. Those with calcium and iron deficiencies have been shown to be more suspceptible in accumulating lead in their tissues. An iron deficiency can be indicative of lead contamination. I will waive my normal consulting fee ($75.00 an hour) for those on the list who would like a heavy metal screening which includes screening for toxic levels of minerals. There would only be the lab charge. This is my contribution to my new "family". Contact me off list at vapate@juno.com Thanks, Victoria ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 12:32:27 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] > Along with this discussion on copper is the issue > of lead contamination with those of you all that "live" with your guns, especially those who were/are in the military. > Lead, along with other heavy metals, is a cumulative posion that is retained in the body. Even at low levels, lead that is not excreted through the digestive system accumlates in the body and is absorbed directly from the blood into other tissues, there to do damage--sublty and insidiously. > I will waive my normal consulting fee ($75.00 an hour) for those on the list who would like a heavy metal screening which includes screening for toxic levels of minerals. There would only be the lab charge. This is my contribution to my new "family". > Contact me off list at vapate@juno.com > > Thanks, > Victoria _______________________________________ This is probably considered OFF TOPIC, STOP right there. OUR lives - today are as important as the facts of history. AND we are involved in a sport that has allot to due with this subject, don't e-mail yet. LEAD BALLS friends, melting, casting and just plain handling, we are touching lead that is harmful to our systems. NOT CRYING WOLF. But wouldn't it be useful to find more out about possible problems, preventives or possible tests to see where you, me or a friend is at as far as amounts we already have. Victoria, what is involved in testing, what dangers are we possibly looking at, etc. How would someone half way around the world be tested that is not able to afford travel or has the time to do so. You got our attention, probably most have been aware of it, just didn't bother to really go any further than close the book the article was in. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 12:57:09 -0700 From: turtle@uswestmail.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Hey you got my attention, please tell us more Victoria. Turtle. - ------------------------------------- On Thu, 30 September 1999, Buck wrote: > > > Along with this discussion on copper is the issue > > of lead contamination with those of you all that "live" with your guns, especially those who were/are in the military. > > Lead, along with other heavy metals, is a cumulative posion that is retained in the body. Even at low levels, lead that is not excreted through the digestive system accumlates in the body and is absorbed directly from the blood into other tissues, there to do damage--sublty and insidiously. > > I will waive my normal consulting fee ($75.00 an hour) for those on the list who would like a heavy metal screening which includes screening for toxic levels of minerals. There would only be the lab charge. This is my contribution to my new "family". > > Contact me off list at vapate@juno.com > > > > Thanks, > > Victoria > _______________________________________ > > This is probably considered OFF TOPIC, STOP right there. OUR lives - today are as important as the facts of history. AND we are involved in a sport that has allot to due with this subject, don't e-mail yet. LEAD BALLS friends, melting, casting and just plain handling, we are touching lead that is harmful to our systems. NOT CRYING WOLF. > > But wouldn't it be useful to find more out about possible problems, preventives or possible tests to see where you, me or a friend is at as far as amounts we already have. > > Victoria, what is involved in testing, what dangers are we possibly looking at, etc. How would someone half way around the world be tested that is not able to afford travel or has the time to do so. You got our attention, probably most have been aware of it, just didn't bother to really go any further than close the book the article was in. > > > Later, > Buck Conner > > AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado > Aux Ailments de Pays! > _____________________________ > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Take care - we leave as friends, Lee "Turtle" Boyer Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec. State College, Pennsylvania ___________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:21:02 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots IF I recall correctly, the problem with copper is that acetic acid (as in vinegar, tomato juice, orange juice, etc.) reacts with the copper to form verdigris, which is poisonous. It's the blue/green "rust" you see on pennies from time to time. In fact, an interesting experiment is to soak a penny in vinegar for a bit, drain the vinegar, and presto! Verdigris will form overnight and possibly sooner. If it's not tinned, why not just tin the darn thing and put an end to any concerns? All that's needed is a propane torch, a bar of pure tin, and Brasso to clean the outside with afterward (heat turns bright copper a dark reddish color). I'm not speaking as an expert here, but I've watched my husband do it, and if he can do it, it can't be too tough! ; -) As I recall, he heats the outside with the propane torch, and rubs the end of the tin bar around on the inside where it melts. Be careful not to overheat, or seams may pop open (depends on the construction method, of course). Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net It is startling how much someone who has handled an ax for years can learn in a millisecond from mishandling an ax. --David Gidmark, _Birchbark Canoe_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:46:23 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots Glenn Darilek wrote: > > > Mill, Kirk wrote: > > > IF you have a copper cup that is not tinned, I believe there is little > > danger if any from drinking beverages out of it. > > But check it for the blue/green corrosion, which I think is a baddy. > Anyway, I had two unlined copper mugs and used them for beer and on two > occasions got > headaches so severe I didn't want to move. Glenn, It wasn't Kirk that said the above but me, but what ever, that isn't important. Let me take the opportunity to clarify my ideas on this subject. Though I have a spun copper mug w/handle, that I have had for years and have drunk out of for the first years I had it, it is not lined and I would never cook out of it. I don't like drinking out of it because the copper transmits heat to my lips too easily and I have to wait for hot drinks to cool. (I prefer to use a horn cup to drink from.) Because there are no signs of corrosion and because I am not cooking in it and because I have never experienced any bad tastes or symptoms it probably is safe to drink cold liquids from it. Not to cook with though. That is just to be on the safe side. I am under the impression that brass pots do not have to be tinned to be safe to cook in. That may or may not be the case. I will tin mine if I ever get around to making a pot of brass. I now use copper pots to cook in and they are tinned. I would not cook in them if they were not tinned and do not recommend that any cooking be done in any brass or copper pots unless they are tinned or you know that it is safe to do so. I don't know so, so I will not do it and will not recommend it. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:02:11 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). Buck wrote: > > This doesn't sound like much, I agree, but remember most dried edibles do swell when water is added. Rice, barley and peas will double in size or amount prepared. > > Most of us (not all) can go with less food from a few days to several weeks without any problem - doctors will tell you that the amount we eat regularly is a mind-set in most cases, we can do with less and would probably do better weight and health wise anyway. Buck, Thanks for the little dissertation. Very useful and I will pass it around to my Party (lots of guys that like to eat including me ). I hear what you are saying. We do well but we can always learn. You obviously are doing it better and so I am picking your brain cause it may be years before we camp together. We all experiment and what I take has evolved down quit a bit but I can see room for improvement. What I read in your bill of lading and your recipe's is a list to give variety but about a 1/2 cup ration per prepared meal, give or take. I'll work with that and see what I end up with for myself. Thanks again and know that I'll be back if I can think of any more questions. I'm looking forward to the article on edibles in the Rockies. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 14:03:56 -0700 From: "Concho" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] OK, it's off topic, casted lead whatevers for ever, now what do I due, not selling the front stuffers. Are there any signs that will tell me I need help ? Keep still Dennis, Buck, Turtle and the Capt. Concho ____________________________________ > Hey you got my attention, please tell us more Victoria. > > Turtle. > ------------------------------------- > > > > > > Along with this discussion on copper is the issue > > > of lead contamination with those of you all that "live" with your guns, especially those who were/are in the military. > > > Lead, along with other heavy metals, is a cumulative posion that is retained in the body. Even at low levels, lead that is not excreted through the digestive system accumlates in the body and is absorbed directly from the blood into other tissues, there to do damage--sublty and insidiously. > > > I will waive my normal consulting fee ($75.00 an hour) for those on the list who would like a heavy metal screening which includes screening for toxic levels of minerals. There would only be the lab charge. This is my contribution to my new "family". > > > Contact me off list at vapate@juno.com > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Victoria > > _______________________________________ > > > > This is probably considered OFF TOPIC, STOP right there. OUR lives - today are as important as the facts of history. AND we are involved in a sport that has allot to due with this subject, don't e-mail yet. LEAD BALLS friends, melting, casting and just plain handling, we are touching lead that is harmful to our systems. NOT CRYING WOLF. > > > > But wouldn't it be useful to find more out about possible problems, preventives or possible tests to see where you, me or a friend is at as far as amounts we already have. > > > > Victoria, what is involved in testing, what dangers are we possibly looking at, etc. How would someone half way around the world be tested that is not able to afford travel or has the time to do so. You got our attention, probably most have been aware of it, just didn't bother to really go any further than close the book the article was in. > > > > > > Later, > > Buck Conner __________________________________ "May the spirit be with you" D.L."Concho" Smith Livingston, MO. Historical Coordinator - Missouri ___________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 14:17:20 -0700 From: "Concho" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). On Thu, 30 September 1999, R Lahti wrote: > > Buck wrote: > > > > > This doesn't sound like much, I agree, but remember most dried edibles do swell when water is added. Rice, barley and peas will double in size or amount prepared. > > > > Most of us (not all) can go with less food from a few days to several weeks without any problem - doctors will tell you that the amount we eat regularly is a mind-set in most cases, we can do with less and would probably do better weight and health wise anyway. > > Buck, > > Thanks for the little dissertation. Very useful and I will pass it > around to my Party (lots of guys that like to eat including me ). I > hear what you are saying. We do well but we can always learn. You > obviously are doing it better and so I am picking your brain cause it > may be years before we camp together. We all experiment and what I take > has evolved down quit a bit but I can see room for improvement. > > What I read in your bill of lading and your recipe's is a list to give........................ > > Capt. Lahti' Hey Capt., Buck is always changing what he takes, check with him in the spring and only a few of these items will remain. The gentleman he mentioned is very good and the Baker Party is lucky to have him around to pick his brain. The problem I have always had with foraging is what is a good plant and what is one that will make me sick. Mr. LaVelle was or is President of the Mushroom folks also, lots of knowledge on this subject as well as edibles, ran into him at "Rabbit Stick" last year, really into the Mesa Verta CO people (cliff dwellers), their life styles, etc. So he's practicing earlier primitive skills than most of us, that's cool, he's building fires with wood drills, we're using flint and steel. reason for mentioning this is I proof read the article that will be on the Baker web site. "May the spirit be with you" D.L."Concho" Smith Livingston, MO. Historical Coordinator - Missouri ___________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:17:27 -0700 From: "John Hunt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) No need to sleep at 1812. Just get out the shine, and put you to sleepGGGGGGGGGGG John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Miles To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 4:06 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) > You tried to kill me you bastard.... You gotta sleep sometime at 1812.. > D > > John Hunt wrote: > > > > > > > CAN`T CHUG MOONSHINE EITHER says Big John > > > > > > -- > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:39:37 -0700 From: "John Hunt" Subject: MtMan-List: illness from copper pot In one of the back issues of T&LR as fellow got sick from his copper pot. He remembered from his military training, took a bone and burned it in the fire and chared deeply, then ground fine added water and drank it. In a few hrs. he felt ok. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:58:55 -0400 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) Fine, but we will sip it FIRST, not LAST.... D John Hunt wrote: > No need to sleep at 1812. Just get out the shine, and put you to > sleepGGGGGGGGGGG > > John (BIG JOHN) Hunt > Longhunter > Mountainman > southwest Ohio > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dennis Miles > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 4:06 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: bacon ? (and food at rendezvous) > > > You tried to kill me you bastard.... You gotta sleep sometime at > 1812.. > > D > > > > John Hunt wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > CAN`T CHUG MOONSHINE EITHER says Big John > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > > > > > - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:39:46 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). > I wrote Bill Klesinger (web master) for the Jim Baker Party web site, and he > will put that article on "Edibles of the Rockies" on the site this weekend if > everything goes OK. This may give you some ideas about foraging and what the > wild plants have to offer each and everyone of us. Buck, Would like that URL when he gets the info up. There seem to be tolerable few edibles in the Rockies in the fall, but have never been out there in the spring or summer. Lots of mast, but a guy would probably be bound up pretty good from them. Plenty of rabbit and tree rat. Could never get any pine nuts.....they always seem to beat me to them. Other than that and pine needle tea, I didn't see much else in the way of plant life a guy could eat this time of the year. Your fellow AMM brother,Todd Daggett from back this way did his survival in Alaska last year in October. A bush pilot dropped him off and he spent a month with only his gun, blanket and possibles. He took no food with him. I saw him at Ft. Deschartres in November, so he much have lived but I have'nt had a chance to talk to him about what he ate. Should be interesting. Dave Kanger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:27:33 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). Concho wrote: > > Hey Capt., > > Buck is always changing what he takes, check with him in the spring and only a few of these items will remain. The gentleman he mentioned is very good and the Baker Party is lucky to have him around to pick his brain. Concho, I'm always looking to pick someone's brain when it comes to food. Got to remember our bunch lives and wanders in the part of the Rockies where Lewis and Clark and the Wilson Price Hunt Party (our AMM Party namesake) dang near starved to death! Finding and figuring out what to eat out here is fun and a challenge. I'm awaiting further word! I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:37:17 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots P.S. Coffee is highly acidic !! As might be tea??? - ----- Original Message ----- From: R Lahti To: Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 2:26 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: On Copper Trade Pots > Mill, Kirk wrote: > Later it was found that it was the copper pot > > causing the problem. My 2 cents. > > Kirk, > > Your two cents are worth a million! Beat me to it. > > IF you have a copper cup that is not tinned, I believe there is little > danger if any from drinking beverages out of it. Tomato juice might > cause a problem but how often does someone drink that at a rendezvous. > If you are going to cook in an untinned copper container just avoid > acidic foods. If you experience any bad taste at all just don't do it > any more. I believe that brass pots do not cause the same concern as a > cooking vessel but I would want my brass pot tinned just to be safe > until someone shows me it's ok. I remain........ > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:01:46 -0500 From: "Texan" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Hey guys, The screening for heavy metals that I can provide for you all and your families is what is called a hair analysis. Hair analysis is also used for drug testing. It consists of analyzing about a tablespoon of hair cut in a very specific way. For you that don't have head hair, there is only one other valid hair sample-and.... it's not beard hair. For those who want the screening , I would send you a little packet with a form to fill out and instructions for how to cut the hair. The cutting has to be done just exactly right or the test results will be skewed. The payment is to be sent directly to the lab either with a check or credit card. You will be sent a report with explanations of the tests results, along with nutritional recommendations. It has been shown that increasing the nutritional status of the individual causes the body to begin to excrete stored toxins and change the chemistry so as to support detoxification. I receive what is called the Doctor's Report (I am not a doctor). Then, we can get together over the phone (your nickel if long distance) and I can make further recommendations. I can work with anyone, anywhere. I can be more specific in my support if I could have a general health history before we have a consult. I'll go into that more for those who are serious about this. If I see some red flags, biochemically speaking, we'll talk about finding a specific kind doctor to do further testing. Remember the phrase "Mad as a Hatter?" That was a term that identified the behaivor of hat makers (in the last century) who used mercury in the making of hats. Chronic low levels of toxic metal and chemical exposures are dangerous because the damage that is being done to the body goes unrecognized for the most part. Symptoms can be something as innocuous as just feeling more fatigued or putting on weight and not being able to get it off. Although I look at the big picture to get an idea of a person's health status, I focus on cellular processes. This is the reason. Any metal or toxin negatively effects the chemistry in the most basic of ways-that of disrupting protein, lipid (fatty acid), and carbohydrate metabolism-the basic building blocks of everything else in the body. You can see that just about any symptom or condition CAN be caused by chronic low level exposure to a toxic substance. If I were you all, I would take the most conservative approach and do the basic screening and see what comes up. Because the body is forced to deal with this low level toxic exposure, it has to get energy from somewhere to do it -so it "steals" biochemical energy from the daily "housekeeping" processes of digesting, making new tissues, breaking down old tissues etc. This is not good! I'll stop there on the biochemistry part. The whole subject is very complex and has numerous peripheral issues. The older a person is, the more important it is to deal with this as quickly as possible. As far as the prevention, there are ways to reduce exposure to lead. You might already know what is necessary. You want to err on the side of being too conservative in your preventive measures. And it is important to make sure that children are not nearby when you are doing your lead "stuff". I hope that answers some questions. I have some general data on lead toxicity that will benefit all of you all, but I need specific clearance from Buck or Dean before I put it on the list. I don't want to get called down when all I'm wanting to do is help ya'll the best I can. Victoria ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:02:20 -0400 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). Hey Guys, No-one else has brought it up, but I will Insects and such are a great protien source. And are abundent all but in the dead of Winter.....Don't forget our crawly friends.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------ Date: 30 Sep 1999 18:25:46 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Victoria, I will contact Dean myself and ask for his permission for you to list the general information, then those interested can contact you off_list for personal needs. This way only those interested in going further will be in contact with you, saving you sometime with e-mail, etc. Does this seem fair to those on this list, something to consider and a lesson our forefathers didn't know about - lead poisioning and other health problems in reenacting their life styles!!!! I'll wait until Sunday to see how those interested feel, we'll try and keep this to a min. on the list. E-mail me at buck.conner@uswestmail.net and let me know if we should continue or to drop the subject, the results will be counted at 12 noon mst and I'll either contact Dean or we'll just drop the deal, that seems fair to everyone and keeps traffic down on a [OFF TOPIC] subject. ___________________________________________________ On Thu, 30 September 1999, "Texan" wrote: > > Hey guys, > > The screening for heavy metals that I can provide for > you all and your families is what is called a hair analysis. > Hair analysis is also used for drug testing. It consists of > analyzing about a tablespoon of hair cut in a very specific way. > For you that don't have head hair, there is only one other > valid hair sample-and.... it's not beard hair. > > For those who want the screening , I would send you a little packet > with a form to fill out and instructions for how to cut the hair. > The cutting has to be done just exactly right or the test results > will be skewed. The payment is to be sent directly to the lab > either with a check or credit card. You will be sent a report with > explanations of the tests results, along with nutritional > recommendations. It has been shown that increasing the nutritional > status of the individual causes the body to begin to excrete stored toxins > and change the chemistry so as to support detoxification. I receive what is > called the Doctor's Report (I am not a doctor). Then, we can get > together over the phone (your nickel if long distance) and I can make > further recommendations. I can work with anyone, anywhere. > > I can be more specific in my support if I could have a general health > history before we have a consult. I'll go into that more for those who > are serious about this. If I see some red flags, biochemically > speaking, we'll talk about finding a specific kind doctor to do > further testing. > > Remember the phrase "Mad as a Hatter?" That was a term that identified > the behaivor of hat makers (in the last century) who used mercury > in the making of hats. > > Chronic low levels of toxic metal and chemical exposures are dangerous > because the damage that is being done to the body goes unrecognized > for the most part. Symptoms can be something as innocuous > as just feeling more fatigued or putting on weight and not being able > to get it off. Although I look at the big picture to get an idea of a > person's > health status, I focus on cellular processes. This is the reason. > Any metal or toxin negatively effects the chemistry in the most basic of > ways-that of disrupting protein, lipid (fatty acid), and carbohydrate > metabolism-the basic building blocks of everything else in the body. > You can see that just about any symptom or condition CAN be > caused by chronic low level exposure to a toxic substance. > If I were you all, I would take the most conservative > approach and do the basic screening and see what comes up. > > Because the body is forced to deal with this low level toxic exposure, it > has > to get energy from somewhere to do it -so it "steals" biochemical energy > from > the daily "housekeeping" processes of digesting, making > new tissues, breaking down old tissues etc. This is not good! > > I'll stop there on the biochemistry part. The whole subject is very complex > and has numerous peripheral issues. The older a person is, > the more important it is to deal with this as quickly as possible. > > As far as the prevention, there are ways to reduce exposure to lead. > You might already know what is necessary. You want to err on the side of > being too conservative in your preventive measures. And it is important > to make sure that children are not nearby when you are doing your > lead "stuff". > > I hope that answers some questions. I have some general data on lead > toxicity that will benefit all of you all, but I need specific clearance > from Buck > or Dean before I put it on the list. I don't want to get called down when > all I'm wanting to do is help ya'll the best I can. > > Victoria ___________________________________ Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #383 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.