From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #386 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Saturday, October 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 386 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: AUCTION -       Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff -       Re: MtMan-List: wearing of extra knives -       RE: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       MtMan-List: Off Topic, but important -       Re: MtMan-List: wearing of extra knives -       Re: MtMan-List: knives -       Re: MtMan-List: knives -       MtMan-List: Book sale was Re: Providing References -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: wearing of extra knives -       Re: MtMan-List: knives -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: "UPDATE" metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:39:31 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AUCTION There is some real prime plunder selling way too cheap over on the auction site. Better check it out! Now! One item is already GOING THRICE! http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1/ auction.htm John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. john kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 16:49:17 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff Lee, I'm not conversant with the history of British spurs, my best guess is th= ese are relatively recent. Chains were not unknown, how the chain is made wo= uld determine if absolutely appropriate. Does the chain have a made by machi= ne look? Even so it may be an old style. =20 If you wear heeled boots the chain would probably work fine for most doin= gs.=20 If you wear moccasins a leather strap will probably be more comfortable. = =20 John... At 12:31 AM 10/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, John Kramer wrote: >> Specific details of manufacture would be the first determination of tr= ue age.=20 >> Not something easily conveyed by Q&A over the net or pictures.=A0 Are = there any >> markings? > >The inside of the spurs are marked... "Never Rust" and below that "Made >In England" > >the chain is stamped "France" > >John... > >Would this style be suitable for a Canadian Scott of the 1800 timeframe? >Was the chain a common item?=A0 I've never seen a chain strap on spurs >before, only leather. > >Regards > >Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho >Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders >lnewbill@uidaho.edu : http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill >=20 John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:46:17 -0400 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wearing of extra knives > Buck & Patrick It was Clark... I have carried a large sticker in an over the shoulder rig for several years, have little use for a sheath knife and none for a hawk. It works for me. Very handy. D > > Buck Conner Wrote: > > Lewis or was it Clark, carried a large knife over his shoulder instead of a hawk. Dennis Miles (on this list)does the same and could give you more information on what works with his testing of this method of carry. - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 18:23:15 -0500 From: Farseer Subject: RE: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] I'll second that recommendation. I had the lead test run a few years ago (came from my hobby of playing with lead miniatures. It was worth the peace of mind. Guess I'll start making that a regular addition to my blood work I get every year (company I work for does blood workups on us every year. Kinda handy working for a clinical info systems co. Lots of handy dandy connections when it comes to health care) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of NaugaMok@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 1999 8:44 PM > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] > > > In a message dated 99-09-30 17:05:37 EDT, you write: > > << OK, it's off topic, casted lead whatevers for ever, now what > do I due, not > selling the front stuffers. Are there any signs that will tell me > I need help > ? >> > > Next time you have a physical, have your Dr. request a "heavy > metal" test as > part of his normal lab work. It's done on the blood, so while > you're getting > jabbed for the colesterol test & such, 1 more little tube full > won't hurt any > more. The test not only picks up lead, but various other heavy > metals like > cadmium, mercury, & others we as ball casters, outdoorsmen, & > reenactors may > come in contact with. I have it checked about every 5 years or so. > > NM > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:45:19 -0400 From: "Possum Hunter" Subject: MtMan-List: Off Topic, but important Please mister list owner, move my subscription from POSSUMHUNTER@prodigy.net to icurapossum_hunter2@yahoo.com. I have been asking for a week now. I want to remove this horrible curse called Prodigy Internet from my computer for good. Thank You, Kevin Raper "No man can truly know Christ except he follow him in life" ( Testimony of Anabaptist leader Hans Denk) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 20:47:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Frank V. Rago" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wearing of extra knives While at the rendezvous I will carry my bowie on the left side for a cross draw style plus the way it is positioned it does not bother me when I sit. I also have an old small folder that is in the possibles bag. When I go over to the throwing comp. I will put the thrower on the right side and stick a hawk in the back or of lately have that on a sling. Years ago I had been know to walk up with 4 throwing knives, my bowie and a hawk but I was a little green then and very uncomfortable, hell if someone nocked me over I probably would have stabbed myself one way or the other. Most of the books and info that I have read showed most men carried a belt knife and kept the rest in their horses packs for kitchen duty. Have not read much about neck knives, they seem like they would be a pain and always in the way. At 06:46 PM 10/1/99 -0400, you wrote: >> Buck & Patrick > > It was Clark... >I have carried a large sticker in an over the shoulder rig for several years, have little use for a sheath knife and none for a hawk. It works for me. Very handy. >D > > >> >> Buck Conner Wrote: > >> >> Lewis or was it Clark, carried a large knife over his shoulder instead of a hawk. Dennis Miles (on this list)does the same and could give you more information on what works with his testing of this method of carry. > >-- > >"Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" > DOUBLE EDGE FORGE > Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements > http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:15:47 EDT From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives certainly there were 'boot' knives. Barn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:27:55 EDT From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives In a message dated 10/1/99 6:18:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BarneyPFife@aol.com writes: << certainly there were 'boot' knives. Barn >> I tried a boot knife but couldn't get it my mocersins. Longshot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 21:05:26 -0500 From: Jim Colburn Subject: MtMan-List: Book sale was Re: Providing References Washtahay- went to the bookstore today, blew my accumulated credit on books that (IMO) qualify as decent references. These are hereby offered to listmembers at my cost. Contact me directly for particulars. LongWalker c. du B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:01:55 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots Anybody remember back in the late 40's and 50's when toothpaste was sold in lead foil tubes? I do!!!! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Buck To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 1:57 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots > On Fri, 01 October 1999, John Kramer wrote: > > > > > Buck, > > > > I forget the exact date but back in the 1600's the British passed a law > > prohibiting the use of lead in pewter used for food service. I don't remember > > if that was the source of the term Britannia Metal. > > > > Of course there have been the unscrupulous in all periods of history but some > > of the problems with lead have been long known. > > > > If in doubt one of the home lead test kits on the market can confirm or deny > > the presence of lead in pewter as well as in glazes on pottery, or paint on > > walls. Many coffee cups from the Orient still offer a significant hazard. > > > > John... > > John, > > It seems that several of these TV programs (Steve & Norm) etc, are always worried about lead paint, even as late as the 20's and 30's paints. It's like you say we knew about it, yet it still keeps popping up. > > In the communications business we still have unbelievable amounts of lead wrapped cable in the ground, vaults and in man holes. It's only been the last 15-20 years that we started to write jobs, to remove it and still no rubber goods- gloves, coveralls, etc. to remove "white" lead (in that bad of a condition) but it still holds air pressure in the case. > > The same goes with other industries having it laying around, I picked up some really nice clean 6" X 8" X 3" lead bars that came from a melt down in one of our subs being taken apart at the Navy yard in San Diego a few years ago, the dealer claimed you won't glow ?? Paid 15 cents a pound. > > > Later, > Buck Conner > > AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado > Aux Ailments de Pays! > _____________________________ > > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 06:14:54 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Well, I hope somebody sees this before it makes it to the list and kills it. This was my standard rant and reply, which usually gets edited when I calm down some 12-24 hours later, and often times never posted. Hit the wrong key this time, and posted it to the list. Can't get it back. If Dean doesn't find this in time, the rest of you will be subjected to it. =46WIW, no major apologies. Just said what I was thinking, but would have rephrased the 4-letter word parts. Probably would have rephrased other parts so as not to be so obnoxious. Anyway, unless Dean kills this, comments welcome via email, but understand that email becomes my property, and subject to reposting. If you have a problem with that, don't send email. Thanks, Texan, for your efforts. Hang your shingle in our lodge any time you want. Roy I've substituted XXXX for the person who last posted on this thread. Not all of the comments are necessarily his/hers, and I didn't want to blame anyone who might have a bit of innocence. However, if you're one of the ones who subscribe to the following idiotic theory, let us pray you have no children so the gene pool will die off with you. Please God, grant us small miracles, as we have enough fuckheads already. OK, I have lost track of some of this thread, but I THINK XXXX generated the note that generated my reply. XXXX, if I'm wrong, and you're not the writer, I humbly apologize for the following post. If you are the writer, I don't apologize in the slightest, as only an idiot or an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand could write drivel such as you did, and the ostrich could probably spell better. My comments begin.... Speaking only for myself, I think safety items/issues such as the current discussion about copper cooking utensils (not just pots) is of sufficient importance that it should NOT be excluded from the main list. =20 In fact, it should be a very high priority on this list. I find it offensive that XXXX even suggest taking it off the discussion list because it is not TPPC "Totally Period Politically Correct" Living History. Maybe XXXX doesn't want to know about ways of poisoning himself in pre-1840 style, but others of us have more of a life to live. Even Clinton is not this stupid. Texan made a great offer to all of us, one many of us might not be able to afford without this generous offer, and shouldn't have been handed a backhanded slap, let alone one up front. Texan should be lifted on our shoulders for trying to help us out. Instead, some folks on this list are taking cheap shots and saying take this off line because this topic of potential lead, copper, etc heavy metal poisoning is 'not traditional'. =20 Bullshit! Texan, I'm very proud of you for continuing to post your offer in the face of one of these TPPC (henceforth known as tipsees) efforts at censorship. I Maybe I'm reading what XXXX wrote wrong, but I gather that XXXX considers anything non-period, regardless of whether other subscribers of this list might find it important or not, to be an 'off-topic' post.=20 =46rankly, I consider potential health warnings a lot more important than the proper spur to wear if you are interpreting a Texican from the 1840's, or the proper technique for turning deer brains into proper leather clothing (been there, done that, and it is a rather interesting topic).=20 And I can't actually consider members of this list major brain troves when I offer them a free copy of the complete ledgers of cost of goods in New Orleans in 1836 and exactly two people take me up on it. I realize not everyone is interested in New Orleans, but wouldn't you have liked to known the wholesale price of powder back then? How about lead? Or the price of beaver? I say we should post full information about various health hazards, perhaps flag it 'OT' in the header for those who don't want to read it (make the tipsees (TPPC-Totally Period Politically Correct) happy - they can keep their heads in the sand), but put the info out there for those of us who are concerned about better ways to avoid lead and copper poisoning, anthrax, cancer, et al. =20 Those who want to be tipsees don't have to read it, and can load up on lead, copper, jalapenos, cadmium, and any other heavy metal or other poison they so desire in blissful ignorance. This will be a hardship on the rest of the group in coming years since we will have to go to many more funerals. Will probably be worth it as the Darwinian weeding out of the totally insipid follows. =20 The rest of us should back off and let the newsgroup/email list do it's thing, which is to inform subscribers of important stuff. Just because it is NOT important to me, doesn't mean it is NOT important to to someone else. =20 I've been a member of this newslist for quite a few years, back even when Dean had to hand address some of the email because there was no solid forum across the net, and that was the only way he could ensure I got all the emails from the list. AOL was a dream in somebody's eye at the time, and the internet joke. The purpose then was a living history forum. It was NOT an AMM forum (separate list for that), but was dedicated to those interested in learning 'how' things were done in the old days. Yes, the emphasis was on learning from the Fur Trade in the Rockies, but skills and lessons from the RW and before were welcomed. =20 As a former member of the Brigade of the American Revolution, now transplanted to the Republic of Texas (Hallaluja!), this was important to me. Things I had learned about the 1750's were allowed to be passed on to those who followed a trail 100 years later. Has this changed? Do we now have self-appointed moderators saying what can/cannot be posted? Do we have Dean Rudy appointed moderators doing the same? I ask this in all ignorance? If the rules for the newsgroup have changed, and I missed them, I want to know. Dean set the mail list up for us, and by using it, we agree to all restrictions (or none as the case may be) he sets. But it should be a level playing field. I mean, I find references to folks telling about stories of being drunk, disabled, disgusting on the emaillist, and nobody demanding they take these threads off line. I see jokes about Texas, and some of the boys from lesser states demanding that these posts be taken off line. And then I see Texan's posts, offering medical tests at actual laboratory cost that might save one of our friends lives, and some total absolute asshole licking Clinty wannabe joker demands THESE posts be taken off line as off topic. Never, in all this time, listening to all the diatribes that have come across my newsreader in all these years, have I ever read anything I find so offensive as this series of posts trying to shut Texan up, Am I overreacting? Perhaps. But I find the posts trying to silence her so offensive, I cannot keep silent. A question to the email list. Are you going to permit this to continue? Are you going to let some folks shout down what you post just because it is not what they want to hear? On 30 Sep 1999 18:25:46 -0700, you wrote: >Victoria, > >I will contact Dean myself and ask for his permission for you to list = the general information, then those interested can contact you off_list = for personal needs. This way only those interested in going further will = be in contact with you, saving you sometime with e-mail, etc. > >Does this seem fair to those on this list, something to consider and a = lesson our forefathers didn't know about - lead poisioning and other = health problems in reenacting their life styles!!!!=20 >I'll wait until Sunday to see how those interested feel, we'll try and = keep this to a min. on the list. E-mail me at buck.conner@uswestmail.net = and let me know if we should continue or to drop the subject, the results= will be counted at 12 noon mst and I'll either contact Dean or we'll = just drop the deal, that seems fair to everyone and keeps traffic down on= a [OFF TOPIC] subject. >___________________________________________________ >On Thu, 30 September 1999, "Texan" wrote: >>=20 >> Hey guys, >>=20 >> The screening for heavy metals that I can provide for >> you all and your families is what is called a hair analysis. >> Hair analysis is also used for drug testing. It consists of >> analyzing about a tablespoon of hair cut in a very specific way. >> For you that don't have head hair, there is only one other >> valid hair sample-and.... it's not beard hair. >>=20 >> For those who want the screening , I would send you a little packet >> with a form to fill out and instructions for how to cut the hair. >> The cutting has to be done just exactly right or the test results >> will be skewed. The payment is to be sent directly to the lab >> either with a check or credit card. You will be sent a report with >> explanations of the tests results, along with nutritional >> recommendations. It has been shown that increasing the nutritional >> status of the individual causes the body to begin to excrete stored = toxins >> and change the chemistry so as to support detoxification. I receive = what is >> called the Doctor's Report (I am not a doctor). Then, we can get >> together over the phone (your nickel if long distance) and I can make >> further recommendations. I can work with anyone, anywhere. >>=20 >> I can be more specific in my support if I could have a general health >> history before we have a consult. I'll go into that more for those = who >> are serious about this. If I see some red flags, biochemically >> speaking, we'll talk about finding a specific kind doctor to do >> further testing. >>=20 >> Remember the phrase "Mad as a Hatter?" That was a term that = identified >> the behaivor of hat makers (in the last century) who used mercury >> in the making of hats. >>=20 >> Chronic low levels of toxic metal and chemical exposures are dangerous >> because the damage that is being done to the body goes unrecognized >> for the most part. Symptoms can be something as innocuous >> as just feeling more fatigued or putting on weight and not being able >> to get it off. Although I look at the big picture to get an idea of a >> person's >> health status, I focus on cellular processes. This is the reason. >> Any metal or toxin negatively effects the chemistry in the most basic = of >> ways-that of disrupting protein, lipid (fatty acid), and carbohydrate >> metabolism-the basic building blocks of everything else in the body. >> You can see that just about any symptom or condition CAN be >> caused by chronic low level exposure to a toxic substance. >> If I were you all, I would take the most conservative >> approach and do the basic screening and see what comes up. >>=20 >> Because the body is forced to deal with this low level toxic exposure,= it >> has >> to get energy from somewhere to do it -so it "steals" biochemical = energy >> from >> the daily "housekeeping" processes of digesting, making >> new tissues, breaking down old tissues etc. This is not good! >>=20 >> I'll stop there on the biochemistry part. The whole subject is very = complex >> and has numerous peripheral issues. The older a person is, >> the more important it is to deal with this as quickly as possible. >>=20 >> As far as the prevention, there are ways to reduce exposure to lead. >> You might already know what is necessary. You want to err on the = side of >> being too conservative in your preventive measures. And it is = important >> to make sure that children are not nearby when you are doing your >> lead "stuff". >>=20 >> I hope that answers some questions. I have some general data on lead >> toxicity that will benefit all of you all, but I need specific = clearance >> from Buck >> or Dean before I put it on the list. I don't want to get called down = when >> all I'm wanting to do is help ya'll the best I can. >>=20 >> Victoria >___________________________________ > > >Later, >Buck Conner > >AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado >Aux Ailments de Pays! >_____________________________ > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Roy Parker =46olks think I'm bad about collecting, and never throwing anything = out... Check out http://www.cosbyrentals.com/ and follow the threads for the=20 Bean Cabin. At least I only collect firearms, stamps, artifacts, forges,= =20 tools and anvils. My Dad was into collecting log cabins! Heavy hobby! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 01:15:55 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wearing of extra knives At 08:47 PM 10/1/99 -0400, you wrote: Have not >read much about neck knives, they seem like they would be a pain and always >in the way. > I'm real fond of knives so I generally have plenty. One that has been pretty constant for nearly 25 years is a small neck knife. The sheath is formed rawhide and it hangs from a buckskin thong. For 10 years or so it was worn everyday. I've replaced the sheath 3 times and the thong countless ones. In the Rockies a thong lasts about a year, some months in the mid-west require a fresh thong be cut for each. I wear it inside my shirt and it hasn't been a problem on a few face plants or while being drug around a mountain by a crazed mule. My most usual belt knife is a 7" straight blade Lockwood Bros. I find it the perfect shape for eating, I can scarf beans with it about as well as with a spoon. It's handy for skinning and butchering, kept in a simple formed rawhide sheath tucked in my belt tied off to the buckle with a thong so when sitting in camp it can be pulled from the belt for comfort and not lost or forgotten after the recipe jugs get passed around. I often carry a half sword instead of an axe, like Dog, I find a big knife handier than a small axe. My half sword swings from an attached loop in a brass bolstered and tipped scabbard. I can dig a hole, split wood, pound whatever needs pounding, clean dead stubs from trees horses are tied to, firepoker, and more with my half sword. In my kit I usually pack a crooked knife and an ancient folding knife and fork set for when I get invited over for dinner. When you set up your rig, think about little things like getting on and off horses and wading in streams setting traps. A knife, axe, shovel or whatever must be readily accessible when you need it. Think of your axes & knives as tools -- first. If a knife is only good for fighting it isn't much good. Pistols, rifles and muskets are weapons. It comes down to what works best for you and trying enough different things will figure that out. A good large knife we don't see folks carry often, which is an old pattern, is what's called a Sheep Splitter. It's a giant butcher knife, Russell (at least used to?) makes them under the Green River label. I've heard -- haven't read - -- that machetes were traded, I have seen English manufactory catalogs of the period offering them in several styles. Carl P. Russell in Firearms, Traps and Tools details many large knives. A large French chefs knife with a proper handle is a correct style. Years back I saw a few fine Hudson Bay camp knives around and they were awesome tools. Never could seem to get my hands on one to keep. Russell shows European hunting swords, short swords and more. There's lots of choices. A lot of what he shows are smith and homemade knives many made from files. Astor's inventory list both iron and steel knives, large steel blades and untempered steel knives. Not everyone should carry a classic Bowie. Many folks in the mountains probably only had one ordinary butcher knife. I've thrown knife and hawk for recreation, seems like it would be damned foolish in an emergency to throw your tools away. There's a couple of real nice knives available over on the auction site. <http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 /auction.htm> John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 05:25:54 EDT From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: knives In a message dated 10/1/1999 6:30:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LODGEPOLE@aol.com writes: > I tried a boot knife but couldn't get it my mocersins. > > Longshot Longshot, You need a summer knife or winter mocs get the mocs cuz there's snow rondy's comin' up. yeeehaww Barn. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 1999 05:52:16 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] On Fri, 01 October 1999, Roy Parker wrote: > > Well, I hope somebody sees this before it makes it to the list and > kills it. This was my standard rant and reply, which usually gets > edited when I calm down some 12-24 hours later, and often times never > posted. Hit the wrong key this time, and posted it to the list. > Can't get it back. If Dean doesn't find this in time, the rest of you > will be subjected to it. > > FWIW, no major apologies. Just said what I was thinking, but would > have rephrased the 4-letter word parts. Probably would have rephrased > other parts so as not to be so obnoxious. Anyway, unless Dean kills > this, comments welcome via email, but understand that email becomes my > property, and subject to reposting. If you have a problem with that, > don't send email. > > Thanks, Texan, for your efforts. Hang your shingle in our lodge any > time you want. > > Roy > > > > > > I've substituted XXXX for the person who last posted on this thread. > Not all of the comments are necessarily his/hers, and I didn't want to > blame anyone who might have a bit of innocence. However, if you're > one of the ones who subscribe to the following idiotic theory, let us > pray you have no children so the gene pool will die off with you. > Please God, grant us small miracles, as we have enough fuckheads > already. > > OK, I have lost track of some of this thread, but I THINK XXXX > generated the note that generated my reply. XXXX, if I'm wrong, and > you're not the writer, I humbly apologize for the following post. If > you are the writer, I don't apologize in the slightest, as only an > idiot or an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand could write drivel > such as you did, and the ostrich could probably spell better. > > My comments begin.... > > Speaking only for myself, I think safety items/issues such as the > current discussion about copper cooking utensils (not just pots) is of > sufficient importance that it should NOT be excluded from the main > list. > > In fact, it should be a very high priority on this list. I find it > offensive that XXXX even suggest taking it off the discussion list > because it is not TPPC "Totally Period Politically Correct" Living > History. Maybe XXXX doesn't want to know about ways of poisoning > himself in pre-1840 style, but others of us have more of a life to > live. Even Clinton is not this stupid. > > Texan made a great offer to all of us, one many of us might not be > able to afford without this generous offer, and shouldn't have been > handed a backhanded slap, let alone one up front. Texan should be > lifted on our shoulders for trying to help us out. Instead, some > folks on this list are taking cheap shots and saying take this off > line because this topic of potential lead, copper, etc heavy metal > poisoning is 'not traditional'. > > Bullshit! > > Texan, I'm very proud of you for continuing to post your offer in the > face of one of these TPPC (henceforth known as tipsees) efforts at > censorship. I > > Maybe I'm reading what XXXX wrote wrong, but I gather that XXXX > considers anything non-period, regardless of whether other subscribers > of this list might find it important or not, to be an 'off-topic' > post. > > Frankly, I consider potential health warnings a lot more important > than the proper spur to wear if you are interpreting a Texican from > the 1840's, or the proper technique for turning deer brains into > proper leather clothing (been there, done that, and it is a rather > interesting topic). > > And I can't actually consider members of this list major brain troves > when I offer them a free copy of the complete ledgers of cost of goods > in New Orleans in 1836 and exactly two people take me up on it. I > realize not everyone is interested in New Orleans, but wouldn't you > have liked to known the wholesale price of powder back then? How about > lead? Or the price of beaver? > > I say we should post full information about various health hazards, > perhaps flag it 'OT' in the header for those who don't want to read it > (make the tipsees (TPPC-Totally Period Politically Correct) happy - > they can keep their heads in the sand), but put the info out there for > those of us who are concerned about better ways to avoid lead and > copper poisoning, anthrax, cancer, et al. > > Those who want to be tipsees don't have to read it, and can load up > on lead, copper, jalapenos, cadmium, and any other heavy metal or > other poison they so desire in blissful ignorance. This will be a > hardship on the rest of the group in coming years since we will have > to go to many more funerals. Will probably be worth it as the > Darwinian weeding out of the totally insipid follows. > > The rest of us should back off and let the newsgroup/email list do > it's thing, which is to inform subscribers of important stuff. Just > because it is NOT important to me, doesn't mean it is NOT important to > to someone else. > > I've been a member of this newslist for quite a few years, back even > when Dean had to hand address some of the email because there was no > solid forum across the net, and that was the only way he could ensure > I got all the emails from the list. AOL was a dream in somebody's eye > at the time, and the internet joke. The purpose then was a living > history forum. It was NOT an AMM forum (separate list for that), but > was dedicated to those interested in learning 'how' things were done > in the old days. Yes, the emphasis was on learning from the Fur Trade > in the Rockies, but skills and lessons from the RW and before were > welcomed. > > As a former member of the Brigade of the American Revolution, now > transplanted to the Republic of Texas (Hallaluja!), this was important > to me. Things I had learned about the 1750's were allowed to be > passed on to those who followed a trail 100 years later. > > Has this changed? Do we now have self-appointed moderators saying > what can/cannot be posted? Do we have Dean Rudy appointed moderators > doing the same? I ask this in all ignorance? If the rules for the > newsgroup have changed, and I missed them, I want to know. Dean set > the mail list up for us, and by using it, we agree to all restrictions > (or none as the case may be) he sets. But it should be a level > playing field. > > I mean, I find references to folks telling about stories of being > drunk, disabled, disgusting on the emaillist, and nobody demanding > they take these threads off line. I see jokes about Texas, and some > of the boys from lesser states demanding that these posts be taken off > line. And then I see Texan's posts, offering medical tests at actual > laboratory cost that might save one of our friends lives, and some > total absolute asshole licking Clinty wannabe joker demands THESE > posts be taken off line as off topic. > > Never, in all this time, listening to all the diatribes that have come > across my newsreader in all these years, have I ever read anything I > find so offensive as this series of posts trying to shut Texan up, > Am I overreacting? Perhaps. But I find the posts trying to silence > her so offensive, I cannot keep silent. > > A question to the email list. Are you going to permit this to > continue? Are you going to let some folks shout down what you post > just because it is not what they want to hear............................................ _____________________________________ What is your problem Parker, we where trying to keep this down to a min. of crap, but as usual look what happens. As the lady said she would prefer to handle this off list because of personal issues each individual may have to deal with, that was the reason she gave her e-mail address. No one is doing anything other than trying to make her wishes/life as easy as possible. I have been talking with her and she now is starting to realize what a project she has undertaken. I told her she needs to collect at least postage and material costs, she has dropped her $75 up from charge to try and help, she doesn't need to loose any postage or other costs. I have told her to be sure she's not going to come up short on trying to help and just being a nice person. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 08:42:26 -0000 From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Roy, I agree with Buck. Moreover, whether on list or off, I am taken aback by the shrill level of your ranting in general and your deliberate crude/vulgar insults. Moderator or not, no list should have to deal with such nonsense. Civility is something valuable to this list, as it is to society in general. Perhaps this nice Lady's offer is coming at a good time, for a few of us here in Texas, at the least, as I gather that the toxic substances discussed can adversely affect those portions of the brain dealing with mature concepts of restraint, common sense and simple civility. Just my point of view---from a fellow Texan, who never chewed the toothpaste tubes or licked the flaking lead based paint off of his crib. Regards, Paul ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 1999 07:01:50 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "UPDATE" metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Members of this list and members of several other lists that have been in contact on this topic. ___________________________ Victoria has been kind enought to drop her up front charge of $75 and has made the offer to provide us with information and instructions in this manner, off_list. I will repeat OFF_LIST. ___________________________ Several things I have asked for, from her is: Her cost for mailing these packets. Any additional costs she may occure. Make a simple question and answer form (we would fill out about our health, etc.). When the results come back from the lab, a scheduled time period or appointment time frame for her to talk to each interested party. (she doesn't want to get to bogged down, so lets not tie her up 10 hours a day or all of her free time when not working at her job). * Remember it's your nickel, you call her at your appointment time and any additional costs mentioned above are yours too. ___________________________ These few simple basic steps will save her time and no money out of her pocket, we should cover any costs and please don't be pushy, she has other things going on in her life just like you. ___________________________ As far as the response OFF_LIST, that seemed to offend one person, we have had (31) wanting the test and ( 0 ) remarks or comments on the NO side of the coin as of last night. At this point Victoria's service is a go and she will give us a simple Q&A form on this list to start the ball rolling (probably the first of the week). Her mother and father are visiting this weekend and she told me she would contact me late Sunday evening. After you have gotten your paperwork from her and have done the needed lab things and sent the required material to them with your payment for their service, you'll have to wait for the results. Then you will be able to reply with your answers, comments, etc. to her at her e-mail as she has requested, once your lab tests have been returned to you. It will all be between you and her from this point on, depending on what is required and the findings from the report. I hope that will answer most questions, this is all I know, anything else will have to be answered by Victoria, along with her e-mail address again for those that have deleted it by mistake. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #386 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.