From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #387 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, October 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 387 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       MtMan-List: TUNG OIL ? -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff -       Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff -       MtMan-List: Osborne Russell (Lengthy text) -       MtMan-List: Wild Edibles part 2 -       MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Oct 1999 07:39:35 -0700 From: turtle@uswestmail.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Agreed Paul, Seems there is at least one on every list or in every group ! Thanks Buck for stepping up and handling all the baloney and helping the lady with a process to make it a simple task if possible, she has taken on a serious issue. Your latest UPDATE will be helpfull and as stated we/each one of us covers his/her own costs. Thanks Buck & Paul. Turtle. ____________________________ On Sat, 02 October 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote: > > Roy, I agree with Buck. Moreover, whether on list or off, I am taken aback > by the shrill level of your ranting in general and your deliberate > crude/vulgar insults. Moderator or not, no list should have to deal with > such nonsense. Civility is something valuable to this list, as it is to > society in general. Perhaps this nice Lady's offer is coming at a good > time, for a few of us here in Texas, at the least, as I gather that the > toxic substances discussed can adversely affect those portions of the brain > dealing with mature concepts of restraint, common sense and simple civility. > > Just my point of view---from a fellow Texan, who never chewed the toothpaste > tubes or licked the flaking lead based paint off of his crib. Regards, > Paul Take care - we leave as friends, Lee "Turtle" Boyer Historical Advisor - Parks & Rec. State College, Pennsylvania ___________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 2 Oct 1999 09:32:44 -0700 From: "Concho" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] On Sat, 02 October 1999, turtle@uswestmail.net wrote: > > Agreed Paul, > > Seems there is at least one on every list or in every group ! > > Thanks Buck for stepping up and handling all the baloney and helping the lady with a process to make it a simple task if possible, she has taken on a serious issue. Your latest UPDATE will be helpfull and as stated we/each one of us covers his/her own costs.............. - ------------------------------------------ Thanks Buck and all the others for helping this Lady in providing her service to us on this health issue. Agree that she lets us know the costs, she shouldn't have to eat any of it. It seems like Buck mentioned before that the smarter we become, the more bad things we have done to ourselves in the past. Roy may of had some of that toothpaste in the early years, can't suck them tubes boys. "May the spirit be with you" D.L."Concho" Smith Livingston, MO. Historical Coordinator - Missouri ___________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:21:29 EDT From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] All right VICTORIA. YOU GO GIRL! I told you there would be people who would stand up for the common good on this list. And like i said when we talked, COUNT ME IN ON THE TESTING PROGRAM. I've run many a lead ball, shot at indoor ranges for years, manufactured ammo, eaten out of untinned vessels, drunk alcohol from pewter flasks, had hot coffee in pure copper mugs and me for one would sure like to know what the state of my state is. Barney ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:33:00 -0700 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: MtMan-List: TUNG OIL ? This question would be best directed toward John Kramer, but I seem to have lost his e-mail address. John, what is the history of Tung Oil ? Also, what would be the most period correct finish to put on a Northwest Gun ? straight grain maple wood ] Did they use a stain on them ? Pendleton ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:23:48 -0700 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Frankly,Mr. Parker, I think you way off base and way out of line !! John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Parker To: Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 11:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Well, I hope somebody sees this before it makes it to the list and kills it. This was my standard rant and reply, which usually gets edited when I calm down some 12-24 hours later, and often times never posted. Hit the wrong key this time, and posted it to the list. Can't get it back. If Dean doesn't find this in time, the rest of you will be subjected to it. FWIW, no major apologies. Just said what I was thinking, but would have rephrased the 4-letter word parts. Probably would have rephrased other parts so as not to be so obnoxious. Anyway, unless Dean kills this, comments welcome via email, but understand that email becomes my property, and subject to reposting. If you have a problem with that, don't send email. Thanks, Texan, for your efforts. Hang your shingle in our lodge any time you want. Roy I've substituted XXXX for the person who last posted on this thread. Not all of the comments are necessarily his/hers, and I didn't want to blame anyone who might have a bit of innocence. However, if you're one of the ones who subscribe to the following idiotic theory, let us pray you have no children so the gene pool will die off with you. Please God, grant us small miracles, as we have enough fuckheads already. OK, I have lost track of some of this thread, but I THINK XXXX generated the note that generated my reply. XXXX, if I'm wrong, and you're not the writer, I humbly apologize for the following post. If you are the writer, I don't apologize in the slightest, as only an idiot or an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand could write drivel such as you did, and the ostrich could probably spell better. My comments begin.... Speaking only for myself, I think safety items/issues such as the current discussion about copper cooking utensils (not just pots) is of sufficient importance that it should NOT be excluded from the main list. In fact, it should be a very high priority on this list. I find it offensive that XXXX even suggest taking it off the discussion list because it is not TPPC "Totally Period Politically Correct" Living History. Maybe XXXX doesn't want to know about ways of poisoning himself in pre-1840 style, but others of us have more of a life to live. Even Clinton is not this stupid. Texan made a great offer to all of us, one many of us might not be able to afford without this generous offer, and shouldn't have been handed a backhanded slap, let alone one up front. Texan should be lifted on our shoulders for trying to help us out. Instead, some folks on this list are taking cheap shots and saying take this off line because this topic of potential lead, copper, etc heavy metal poisoning is 'not traditional'. Bullshit! Texan, I'm very proud of you for continuing to post your offer in the face of one of these TPPC (henceforth known as tipsees) efforts at censorship. I Maybe I'm reading what XXXX wrote wrong, but I gather that XXXX considers anything non-period, regardless of whether other subscribers of this list might find it important or not, to be an 'off-topic' post. Frankly, I consider potential health warnings a lot more important than the proper spur to wear if you are interpreting a Texican from the 1840's, or the proper technique for turning deer brains into proper leather clothing (been there, done that, and it is a rather interesting topic). And I can't actually consider members of this list major brain troves when I offer them a free copy of the complete ledgers of cost of goods in New Orleans in 1836 and exactly two people take me up on it. I realize not everyone is interested in New Orleans, but wouldn't you have liked to known the wholesale price of powder back then? How about lead? Or the price of beaver? I say we should post full information about various health hazards, perhaps flag it 'OT' in the header for those who don't want to read it (make the tipsees (TPPC-Totally Period Politically Correct) happy - they can keep their heads in the sand), but put the info out there for those of us who are concerned about better ways to avoid lead and copper poisoning, anthrax, cancer, et al. Those who want to be tipsees don't have to read it, and can load up on lead, copper, jalapenos, cadmium, and any other heavy metal or other poison they so desire in blissful ignorance. This will be a hardship on the rest of the group in coming years since we will have to go to many more funerals. Will probably be worth it as the Darwinian weeding out of the totally insipid follows. The rest of us should back off and let the newsgroup/email list do it's thing, which is to inform subscribers of important stuff. Just because it is NOT important to me, doesn't mean it is NOT important to to someone else. I've been a member of this newslist for quite a few years, back even when Dean had to hand address some of the email because there was no solid forum across the net, and that was the only way he could ensure I got all the emails from the list. AOL was a dream in somebody's eye at the time, and the internet joke. The purpose then was a living history forum. It was NOT an AMM forum (separate list for that), but was dedicated to those interested in learning 'how' things were done in the old days. Yes, the emphasis was on learning from the Fur Trade in the Rockies, but skills and lessons from the RW and before were welcomed. As a former member of the Brigade of the American Revolution, now transplanted to the Republic of Texas (Hallaluja!), this was important to me. Things I had learned about the 1750's were allowed to be passed on to those who followed a trail 100 years later. Has this changed? Do we now have self-appointed moderators saying what can/cannot be posted? Do we have Dean Rudy appointed moderators doing the same? I ask this in all ignorance? If the rules for the newsgroup have changed, and I missed them, I want to know. Dean set the mail list up for us, and by using it, we agree to all restrictions (or none as the case may be) he sets. But it should be a level playing field. I mean, I find references to folks telling about stories of being drunk, disabled, disgusting on the emaillist, and nobody demanding they take these threads off line. I see jokes about Texas, and some of the boys from lesser states demanding that these posts be taken off line. And then I see Texan's posts, offering medical tests at actual laboratory cost that might save one of our friends lives, and some total absolute asshole licking Clinty wannabe joker demands THESE posts be taken off line as off topic. Never, in all this time, listening to all the diatribes that have come across my newsreader in all these years, have I ever read anything I find so offensive as this series of posts trying to shut Texan up, Am I overreacting? Perhaps. But I find the posts trying to silence her so offensive, I cannot keep silent. A question to the email list. Are you going to permit this to continue? Are you going to let some folks shout down what you post just because it is not what they want to hear? On 30 Sep 1999 18:25:46 -0700, you wrote: >Victoria, > >I will contact Dean myself and ask for his permission for you to list the general information, then those interested can contact you off_list for personal needs. This way only those interested in going further will be in contact with you, saving you sometime with e-mail, etc. > >Does this seem fair to those on this list, something to consider and a lesson our forefathers didn't know about - lead poisioning and other health problems in reenacting their life styles!!!! >I'll wait until Sunday to see how those interested feel, we'll try and keep this to a min. on the list. E-mail me at buck.conner@uswestmail.net and let me know if we should continue or to drop the subject, the results will be counted at 12 noon mst and I'll either contact Dean or we'll just drop the deal, that seems fair to everyone and keeps traffic down on a [OFF TOPIC] subject. >___________________________________________________ >On Thu, 30 September 1999, "Texan" wrote: >> >> Hey guys, >> >> The screening for heavy metals that I can provide for >> you all and your families is what is called a hair analysis. >> Hair analysis is also used for drug testing. It consists of >> analyzing about a tablespoon of hair cut in a very specific way. >> For you that don't have head hair, there is only one other >> valid hair sample-and.... it's not beard hair. >> >> For those who want the screening , I would send you a little packet >> with a form to fill out and instructions for how to cut the hair. >> The cutting has to be done just exactly right or the test results >> will be skewed. The payment is to be sent directly to the lab >> either with a check or credit card. You will be sent a report with >> explanations of the tests results, along with nutritional >> recommendations. It has been shown that increasing the nutritional >> status of the individual causes the body to begin to excrete stored toxins >> and change the chemistry so as to support detoxification. I receive what is >> called the Doctor's Report (I am not a doctor). Then, we can get >> together over the phone (your nickel if long distance) and I can make >> further recommendations. I can work with anyone, anywhere. >> >> I can be more specific in my support if I could have a general health >> history before we have a consult. I'll go into that more for those who >> are serious about this. If I see some red flags, biochemically >> speaking, we'll talk about finding a specific kind doctor to do >> further testing. >> >> Remember the phrase "Mad as a Hatter?" That was a term that identified >> the behaivor of hat makers (in the last century) who used mercury >> in the making of hats. >> >> Chronic low levels of toxic metal and chemical exposures are dangerous >> because the damage that is being done to the body goes unrecognized >> for the most part. Symptoms can be something as innocuous >> as just feeling more fatigued or putting on weight and not being able >> to get it off. Although I look at the big picture to get an idea of a >> person's >> health status, I focus on cellular processes. This is the reason. >> Any metal or toxin negatively effects the chemistry in the most basic of >> ways-that of disrupting protein, lipid (fatty acid), and carbohydrate >> metabolism-the basic building blocks of everything else in the body. >> You can see that just about any symptom or condition CAN be >> caused by chronic low level exposure to a toxic substance. >> If I were you all, I would take the most conservative >> approach and do the basic screening and see what comes up. >> >> Because the body is forced to deal with this low level toxic exposure, it >> has >> to get energy from somewhere to do it -so it "steals" biochemical energy >> from >> the daily "housekeeping" processes of digesting, making >> new tissues, breaking down old tissues etc. This is not good! >> >> I'll stop there on the biochemistry part. The whole subject is very complex >> and has numerous peripheral issues. The older a person is, >> the more important it is to deal with this as quickly as possible. >> >> As far as the prevention, there are ways to reduce exposure to lead. >> You might already know what is necessary. You want to err on the side of >> being too conservative in your preventive measures. And it is important >> to make sure that children are not nearby when you are doing your >> lead "stuff". >> >> I hope that answers some questions. I have some general data on lead >> toxicity that will benefit all of you all, but I need specific clearance >> from Buck >> or Dean before I put it on the list. I don't want to get called down when >> all I'm wanting to do is help ya'll the best I can. >> >> Victoria >___________________________________ > > >Later, >Buck Conner > >AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado >Aux Ailments de Pays! >_____________________________ > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net Roy Parker Folks think I'm bad about collecting, and never throwing anything out... Check out http://www.cosbyrentals.com/ and follow the threads for the Bean Cabin. At least I only collect firearms, stamps, artifacts, forges, tools and anvils. My Dad was into collecting log cabins! Heavy hobby! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 20:54:38 -0400 From: Tom Roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Brothers and Sisters, Well, let's hope we have learned from this experience. We know that words sent in haste and anger are often regretted and, once sent, they cannot be retrieved. I further submit that a public reprimand is almost as distasteful as that which provoked it. There is an ethic which says that if you find fault with your brother, speak to him privately first. We all know quite well the purpose of this list and most of us have strayed off course from time to time. I remain convinced that we are all capable of staying within the bounds of good taste. Let's exercise private mailings whenever they are appropriate. Our many silent visitors will certainly feel more welcome. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 19:08:53 -0600 From: Bobbie Lundy Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Tom suggested: > There is an ethic which says that if you find fault with your >brother, speak to him privately first. >Let's exercise private mailings whenever they are appropriate. I understand what you're saying, Tom, and for the most part I agree. However, if I had posted something that this critic disagreed with, and I received such a scathing personal email, I would be rather upset. I would much prefer that it be sent publicly, so that others on the list could see what I had received. Because of what was said publicly, Victoria has received public support that she would otherwise not have received. > Our many silent visitors will certainly feel more welcome. I've been one of those "silent visitors", and I appreciate the concern. I would also like to say that I would feel more welcome if there weren't references to rape. There are many women in the Trapper era reenactments who've experienced this real life trauma, and it just isn't funny. Bobbie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 06:51:15 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots Until plastic became dominate toothpaste tubes were tin -- not lead foil. John... At 09:01 PM 10/1/99 -0700, you wrote: >Anybody remember back in the late 40's and 50's when toothpaste was sold= in >lead foil tubes?=A0 I do!!!! > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Buck >To: >Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 1:57 PM >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots > > >> On Fri, 01 October 1999, John Kramer wrote: >> >> > >> > Buck, >> > >> > I forget the exact date but back in the 1600's the British passed a = law >> > prohibiting the use of lead in pewter used for food service.=A0 I do= n't >remember >> > if that was the source of the term Britannia Metal. >> > >> > Of course there have been the unscrupulous in all periods of history= but >some >> > of the problems with lead have been long known. >> > >> > If in doubt one of the home lead test kits on the market can confirm= or >deny >> > the presence of lead in pewter as well as in glazes on pottery, or p= aint >on >> > walls.=A0 Many coffee cups from the Orient still offer a significant >hazard. >> > >> > John... >> >> John, >> >> It seems that several of these TV programs (Steve & Norm) etc, are alw= ays >worried about lead paint, even as late as the 20's and 30's paints. It's >like you say we knew about it, yet it still keeps popping up. >> >> In the communications business we still have unbelievable amounts of l= ead >wrapped cable in the ground, vaults and in man holes. It's only been the >last 15-20 years that we started to write jobs, to remove it and still n= o >rubber goods- gloves, coveralls, etc. to remove "white" lead (in that ba= d of >a condition) but it still holds air pressure in the case. >> >> The same goes with other industries having it laying around, I picked = up >some really nice clean 6" X 8" X 3" lead bars that came from a melt down= in >one of our subs being taken apart at the Navy yard in San Diego a few ye= ars >ago, the dealer claimed you won't glow ?? Paid 15 cents a pound. >> >> >> Later, >> Buck Conner >> >> AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado >> Aux Ailments de Pays! >> _____________________________ >> >> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net >> >> >=20 John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:27:07 -0000 From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots John, Darn, you ruined a good theory as to certain behavior with hard facts. How did they make the tin so flexible? The fact that it was so thin, or was there some other factor in the process? I have a very vague memory of some craft project in elementary school using strips cut from the tubes. I have another question as to the tinning process used on copper. If this issue has been addressed already on the list, perhaps someone would be so kind as to visit with me directly. Just how do you tin a copper pot? First, who would sell the proper tin (compound??)? I assume you need to heat up the pot in question, and pour melted tin into it, taking care to "swish" it around to get an even coat. If I am on track, I see grave potential for physical harm and destruction of a kitchen if there is a slip. I wonder is the tin omits any harmful fumes as it melts? If so, I guess it is an outdoor project even if you disregard the physical threat to the kitchen. Another subject: Does anyone know how early in the "American" trade--that includes Canada--brass kettles were being traded to the natives or were otherwise available commerically? Should they be tinned? Also, I have always been curious as to why pewter was the metal of choice for dinner wear in Colonial times. Surely it wasn't cost, as I have always assumed that it would have been a bit pricey as it seems to have been a treasured family possession. John, I used the Wood Oyl I acquired through you via the auction last night on three of my cutting boards. It does not require much to do a very nice job. Have yet to use the other product, but it is on the list of required household chores. Regards, Paul ------------------------------ Date: 3 Oct 1999 05:43:05 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots On Sun, 03 October 1999, John Kramer wrote: > > Until plastic became dominate toothpaste tubes were tin -- not lead foil. > > John... > > > At 09:01 PM 10/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Anybody remember back in the late 40's and 50's when toothpaste was sold in > >lead foil tubes? I do!!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Buck > >To: > >Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 1:57 PM > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: On Copper Trade Pots > > > > > >> On Fri, 01 October 1999, John Kramer wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > Buck, > >> > > >> > I forget the exact date but back in the 1600's the British passed a law > >> > prohibiting the use of lead in pewter used for food service. I don't > >remember > >> > if that was the source of the term Britannia Metal. > >> > > >> > Of course there have been the unscrupulous in all periods of history but > >some > >> > of the problems with lead have been long known. > >> > > >> > If in doubt one of the home lead test kits on the market can confirm or > >deny > >> > the presence of lead in pewter as well as in glazes on pottery, or paint > >on > >> > walls. Many coffee cups from the Orient still offer a significant > >hazard. > >> > > >> > John... > >> > >> John, > >> > >> It seems that several of these TV programs (Steve & Norm) etc, are always > >worried about lead paint, even as late as the 20's and 30's paints. It's > >like you say we knew about it, yet it still keeps popping up. > >> > >> In the communications business we still have unbelievable amounts of lead > >wrapped cable in the ground, vaults and in man holes. It's only been the > >last 15-20 years that we started to write jobs, to remove it and still no > >rubber goods- gloves, coveralls, etc. to remove "white" lead (in that bad of > >a condition) but it still holds air pressure in the case. > >> > >> The same goes with other industries having it laying around, I picked up > >some really nice clean 6" X 8" X 3" lead bars that came from a melt down in > >one of our subs being taken apart at the Navy yard in San Diego a few years > >ago, the dealer claimed you won't glow ?? Paid 15 cents a pound. > >> > >> > >> Later, > >> Buck Conner > >> > >> AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado > >> Aux Ailments de Pays! > >> _____________________________ > >> > >> Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account > http://www.uswestmail.net > >> > >> > > > John T. Kramer, maker of: > > Kramer's Best Antique Improver > >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< > >>>As good as old!<<< > > > > mail to: Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 07:58:17 -0000 From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). What is that URL for the Jim Baker Party (again)? ------------------------------ Date: 3 Oct 1999 06:24:04 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). On Sun, 03 October 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote: > > What is that URL for the Jim Baker Party (again)? Paul, Last time I checked yesterday Bill hadn't loaded the "Edibles of the Rockies" article yet. http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 08:37:07 -0000 From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). Thanks Buck, I have book-marked the site. Do you get your e-mail to the company at a different address? Sent an inquiry earlier this morning about you telephone number so I could discuss fishing tackle and related matters of moment. Pablo ------------------------------ Date: 3 Oct 1999 07:02:25 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). On Sun, 03 October 1999, "Paul Jones" wrote: > > Thanks Buck, I have book-marked the site. > > Do you get your e-mail to the company at a different address? Sent an > inquiry earlier this morning about you telephone number so I could discuss > fishing tackle and related matters of moment. > > Pablo Pablo, I can be reached at 1-800-267-3688, I'm at work now. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 08:06:28 -0600 From: Bill Klesinger Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). to find the Jim Baker Party go http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html or http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html bill klesinger Paul Jones wrote: > What is that URL for the Jim Baker Party (again)? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:08:45 EDT From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff In a message dated 10/1/99 2:32:28 AM EST, lnewbill@uidaho.edu writes: << Was the chain a common item? I've never seen a chain strap on spurs before, only leather. >> I have five books that show early spurs with chain in stead of leather straps. One is a set owned by George Washington that had silver chains. But without a picture of the spurs it is hard to say if they are correct. Never rust is stamped on many modern spurs so that is no indicator of age. Your humble servant C.T. Oakes ------------------------------ Date: 3 Oct 1999 08:29:10 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Horse Stuff On Sun, 03 October 1999, CTOAKES@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/1/99 2:32:28 AM EST, lnewbill@uidaho.edu writes: > > << Was the chain a common item? I've never seen a chain strap on spurs > before, only leather. >> > I have five books that show early spurs with chain in stead of leather > straps. One is a set owned by George Washington that had silver chains. But > without a picture of the spurs it is hard to say if they are correct. Never > rust is stamped on many modern spurs so that is no indicator of age. > > Your humble servant > > C.T. Oakes C.T. is correct, checked Colo. Historical Museum, Museum of the Fur Trade, Denver Natural History Museum and talked to a friend at the Museum of Man in Canada - all had a few spurs with chains. Several of the people I asked thought they where very common in the Rev War and possibily earier into the F&I War, mostly worn by officers from both side, but more a European item and then popular with the Americans. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:53:12 -0400 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: MtMan-List: Osborne Russell (Lengthy text) Hello the camp. I've been awake since 5:00 a.m. PST. It occurred to me, as many things do before the sun comes up, that for many of us this site has become a kind of campfire where we congregate after a hard day's labor, a day of tedious labor, or the want of a kindred spirit. I don't have anything to add about toxicity, copper pots or the ice man. What I do have to offer is something I conjured in my imagination. If you have read Russell's Journal of a Trapper, you may remember that he went to sea at 16 before he found his way West. Thinking about Russell and what his journal didn't tell us about that time in his life, this is what I imagined his life and motivation to be. It is an excerpt from my book (Across the Seasons) I have just written and hope to be published soon. It is my desire to stoke the flames of this campfire, where I continually meet friends I never thought would be my privilege to meet, and hope you will read on: . . . (Osborne Russell) It's amazing how a man's life can be reduced to a few sentences and it all seems so simple. Sixteen isn't such a young age for a man to go out on his own. It's only called running away from home when you go against your Father's wishes. It's one of the paths boys travel to become men. When I told my Father I wanted to go to sea he was thunderstruck. I'm not sure he wanted me to be a farmer, but I don't think he believed I had the gristle on me to take the hardknocks of a sailor's life." . . . I grew up around water and I longed to go to sea. I haunted the waterfronts listening to the sailors tell of their adventures. Some of them were wounded, limping, missing a leg or an arm, or even blind, but their stories were thrilling about how they fought for their very lives as they battled the merciless sea. I would go to Portland and watch the beautiful ships glide in; they seemed to be flying into the harbor like great-winged birds." . . . One day, unbeknownst to my family, I tied all my clothes in a bundle, kissed my Mother goodbye, and struck out to find a ship that would hire me. My heart swelled the first time we set out to sea, but it wasn't many more trips before I learned why my Father had wanted to spare me a seafarer's life. There were times we had nothing much to eat or drink. We had birds, a few shellfish, and a precious few sodden biscuits, no other bread stuffs, but to us they were dainties. Often the seas boiled with violent storms, we had to tie ourselves with ropes to keep from being swept overboard into the mouth of the sea. I tell you here in the mountains, I've been shot at by Indians, near starved, and near froze to death, but I've never been as lonely as when I'd awaken in the early morning and see the vast emptiness of an iron-grey sea. There were times the horizon was indistinguishable and it appeared we were sailing off into nothingness. While I worked during the day, or sto! od watch at night, I thought about the beautiful countryside of Maine. I reconstructed, in great detail, every hill and field where I had played as a boy. It was on one of those lonely watches I decided there were many fields I had never entered, rivers with rapids and shallows I had not forded, and birds and animals I wanted to hold in the sights of my rifle. Stranded at sea I began to hear tales of the great West and of the Shining Mountains that rose so high they disappeared into the sky. I heard stories of the great rivers that had become roads to carry extraordinary men like Lewis and Clark to the far side of our country, and to another great ocean." . . . One night, after a particularly bleak and troublesome voyage, I heard a siren's song and jumped ship in New York with the rest of the crew. I eventually wound up in Minnesota and Wisconsin, trapping for three years in the service of the Northwest Fur Trapping and Trading Company, but I guess you know all about that." Respectfully submitted, because a goodly part of my research was lurking on this list, Laura Glise Wind1838@aol.com Good day - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:51:35 -0600 From: Bill Klesinger Subject: MtMan-List: Wild Edibles part 2 For those interested in Wild Edibles a new article has been added to the site. Complements of Buck Conner, Jim Baker Party. http://klesinger.com/jbp/wedible2.html Bill Kleinger Jim Baker Party, WebMaster http://klesinger.com/jbp/swf1.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:09:40 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: MtMan-List: Re: AMM-List: TUNG OIL ? Larry, Tung oil wasn't used in American or European woodworking until technology advanced enough in the early nineteen hundreds to get it hot enough to be remotely useful. The primary use was as a weatherizing agent in exterior paint and varnish. A coat of varnish would probably be the most correct for most trade guns.= Too bad varnish is no longer available, Constantine might still offer one or = two.=20 The best easy alternative today that has historic precedent would be a ru= bbed oil finish. See previous discussions back around Dec., '97 in the archiv= e. If the trade guns at the Museum of The Fur Trade are observed some are da= rk and some are light in color. Some have had finish added over the years and s= ome haven't. Some show darkened wood some show pigmented finish. Paint wasn= 't unknown. Many look as if various animal fats were rubbed in over the yea= rs.=20 Many have the comb (cheek piece) carved down to fit the owner. Trade Guns were made as cheaply as possible. No more time and material w= as wasted in finishing than absolutely necessary. =20 I seem to recollect something somewhere a long time ago that suggested th= ey may have only been shipped with a light coat of shellac. It's possible the finishes we now see were added by the owners. =20 With the variety observed on originals the options are pretty much open t= o what you want. I think a hand rubbed oil finish wears best in the woods. Pig= ment, dye, fire or acid can be used to darken maple. John... At 06:33 PM 10/2/99 -0700, larry pendleton wrote: >This question would be best directed toward John Kramer, but I seem to h= ave >lost his e-mail address.=A0 John, what is the history of Tung Oil ?=A0=A0= Also, >what would be the most period correct finish to put on a Northwest Gun ? > straight grain maple wood ]=A0 Did they use a stain on them ? >Pendleton > > >-------------------- >Aux Ailments de Pays! >=20 Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. John Kramer ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #387 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.