From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #392 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, October 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 392 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       Re: MtMan-List: Auction -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       MtMan-List: lead -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       Re: MtMan-List: lead -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       Re: MtMan-List: [OT Health Issues W/Metals] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears -       MtMan-List: Apology and last post -       MtMan-List: Osborne Russell's Death 1892 or 1865? -       Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). -       MtMan-List: TREK -       MtMan-List: JAUNT -       MtMan-List: EXPLORE -       Re: MtMan-List: Apology and last post -       MtMan-List: EXPLORE Amendment -       Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] -       MtMan-List: Business announcement -       Re: MtMan-List: Apology and last post ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:57:00 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears Henry, I think the Denver Art Museum has a old summer leather shirt with alot of holes in it (diamonds and pinking marks) it is to the waist in length and I would guess it was done with a knife. Irregular and not matching in cuts. I can't remember the date or which tribe it came from- but you can find the "pinking" cuts on alot of things, including a the edge of a old powder horn I have. I think Tom Tobins' coat might have some of that on it. Contact Barry Conner, he has seen it and might give you more info. Henry B. Crawford wrote: > I'm finishing the buckskin hunting coat (yes, that's right, for those > who've been wondering whether I was still at it, or I simply gave up and > shot the thing), and I was wanting to pink some of the edges. Were pinking > shears available in the era 1800-1850, or did they just use a knife. If > the shears were available, when did they come into being and how available > were they during the Rondy era? > > You have 2 hours to answer this question. Pencils ready. Begin. > > Oops, sorry, for minute I thought I was in the classroom. :-) > > TIA, > HBC > > **************************************** > Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 > Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University > mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 > 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 > Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum > ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:00:58 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Auction I just noticed that Dennis has posted a closing date of 10/11 on some of the items being auctioned. They are about to be sold. Good prices on rare goods. If you don't HURRY someone else will get some real PRIME PLUNDER, way too cheap. It helps AMM. http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1/ auction.htm John... Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without. john kramer@kramerize.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 04:14:45 EDT From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears Henry, Don't have ref's at hand, but IIRC the Mountain Man's Sketch Book has a picture of a jacket PURPORTED to be c. 1823 that has pinked edges. As I remember, they say its in the Museum Of Anthropology in New Mexico. Its very "southwestern" in style, with inset wool diamonds along with the pinked edges. I'm not sure if this is the "Tom Tobin" jacket, but if so, there is quite a bit of controvery about the true age of that piece, and I'm sure some of the more informed on the list can help with that. Barn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:04:32 -0000 From: "Glenn Darilek" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears We had a thread about this in 1996 in which I responded: Webster's Collegiate Dictionary says that the term "pinking shears" was first noted ca. 1939. Pinking shears evidently got their name from the verb " to pink" (origin 1598) - meaning to cut a saw-toothed edge on. From this, I one might say that it would be OK to "pink" as long as you don't use pinking shears. Iron Burner - -----Original Message----- From: Henry B. Crawford To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 9:39 PM Subject: MtMan-List: pinking shears >I'm finishing the buckskin hunting coat (yes, that's right, for those >who've been wondering whether I was still at it, or I simply gave up and >shot the thing), and I was wanting to pink some of the edges. Were pinking >shears available in the era 1800-1850, or did they just use a knife. If >the shears were available, when did they come into being and how available >were they during the Rondy era? > >You have 2 hours to answer this question. Pencils ready. Begin. > >Oops, sorry, for minute I thought I was in the classroom. :-) > >TIA, >HBC > >**************************************** >Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 >Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University >mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 >806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 > Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum >****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:47:29 -0500 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: lead This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF1098.34A58780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All this talk about possible lead poising is timely. The "anti gun" = crowd is currently making a big push to limit use of lead based = projectiles in ammunition. We may soon see all kinds of prohibitions = against the use of lead based ammunition in so many areas that our = shooting rights could be seriously limited. Yes, we must all be aware of the dangers of handling lead, just as = with anything that could be harmful if misused. I believe we should be emphasizing safe handling procedures. For my = part, I only cast in well ventilated areas, am very careful not to put = my hands to my mouth or face while handling lead and wash my hands well = when finished with any project involving handling lead. I believe it is on topic to say that we should all be diligent in = our lobbying efforts to protect our shooting rights or else this list = could one day be talking about what it WAS like when we could actually = use our muzzle loading guns. Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas - ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF1098.34A58780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    All this talk about possible lead = poising=20 is timely.  The "anti gun" crowd is currently making a big push to = limit=20 use of lead based projectiles in ammunition.  We may soon see all = kinds of=20 prohibitions against the use of lead based ammunition in so many areas = that our=20 shooting rights could be seriously limited.
    Yes, we must all be aware of the = dangers of=20 handling lead, just as with anything that could be harmful if=20 misused.
    I believe we should be = emphasizing safe=20 handling procedures.  For my part, I only cast in well ventilated = areas, am=20 very careful not to put my hands to my mouth or face while handling lead = and=20 wash my hands well when finished with any project involving handling=20 lead.
    I believe it is on topic to say that we should = all be=20 diligent in our lobbying efforts to protect our shooting rights or else = this=20 list could one day be talking about what it WAS like when we could = actually use=20 our muzzle loading guns.
Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas
- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BF1098.34A58780-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:23:51 -0400 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears one of carsons jackets was pinked if i am not mistaken---the museum of the fur trade has some examples of pinking I believe if i remember correct--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor Florida 34684 Phone: 1-727-771-1815 e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:15:53 -0500 From: "John McKee" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: lead This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF10A4.8DF9C2E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Frank: are you doing the various type facings in each email on purpose?? = JMc ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Frank Fusco=20 To: MM=20 Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 7:47 AM Subject: MtMan-List: lead All this talk about possible lead poising is timely. The "anti = gun" crowd is currently making a big push to limit use of lead based = projectiles in ammunition. We may soon see all kinds of prohibitions = against the use of lead based ammunition in so many areas that our = shooting rights could be seriously limited. Yes, we must all be aware of the dangers of handling lead, just as = with anything that could be harmful if misused. I believe we should be emphasizing safe handling procedures. For = my part, I only cast in well ventilated areas, am very careful not to = put my hands to my mouth or face while handling lead and wash my hands = well when finished with any project involving handling lead. I believe it is on topic to say that we should all be diligent in = our lobbying efforts to protect our shooting rights or else this list = could one day be talking about what it WAS like when we could actually = use our muzzle loading guns. Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home, Arkansas - ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF10A4.8DF9C2E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Frank: are you doing the = various type=20 facings in each email on purpose??  JMc
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Frank=20 Fusco
To: MM=20
Sent: Thursday, October 07, = 1999 7:47=20 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: lead

    All this talk about possible = lead poising=20 is timely.  The "anti gun" crowd is currently making a big push = to limit=20 use of lead based projectiles in ammunition.  We may soon see all = kinds=20 of prohibitions against the use of lead based ammunition in so many = areas that=20 our shooting rights could be seriously limited.
    Yes, we must all be aware of = the dangers=20 of handling lead, just as with anything that could be harmful if=20 misused.
    I believe we should be = emphasizing safe=20 handling procedures.  For my part, I only cast in well ventilated = areas,=20 am very careful not to put my hands to my mouth or face while handling = lead=20 and wash my hands well when finished with any project involving = handling=20 lead.
    I believe it is on topic to say that we should = all be=20 diligent in our lobbying efforts to protect our shooting rights or = else this=20 list could one day be talking about what it WAS like when we could = actually=20 use our muzzle loading guns.
Frank "Bearclaw" Fusco, Mountain Home,=20 Arkansas
- ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01BF10A4.8DF9C2E0-- ------------------------------ Date: 7 Oct 1999 07:31:49 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears > "pinking" cuts on alot of things, including a the edge of a old powder horn I have. I think Tom Tobins' coat might have some of that on it.................. "pinking" or "sawtooth cuts", believe that was just explained earlier. Yes I have seen Tom Tobin's coat and Kit Carson's coat, from the workmanship, style, etc. - Hanson and yours truly really think they where both made by the same person or persons. The sewing, tanning, and blanket are both alike, but back to the original question. The "sawtooth cuts" where done with a pair of scissors or sharp knife, not "pinking shears", the reason is if looking at the length of cut, angle and size of each "pinking", they are close to the same size, but vary just a little. Charley felt a pattern was held on the leather, then cut with regular scissors or a knife, the material would shift one way or the other ("grow" a term that was used in the leather workers industry, where depending on the texture, thickness, etc. - the leather would change the size of a pattern produced when using this cutting method). The modern "pinking shear" changed that, thus having more correct to size patterns, hope this makes sense. Take some old scraps in different textures and thickness and try it, you'll see what I'm saying, not much difference, but different in size when compared to a sample cut with a "pinking shear". Plus one other important thing is when looking at the inner point of the cut material you could see on several that the cut when into the main body - further or past the other side of the "V", showing it was cut singlely. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: 7 Oct 1999 08:43:55 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears > "southwestern" in style, with inset wool diamonds along with the pinked > edges. I'm not sure if this is the "Tom Tobin" jacket, but if so................. Not Tobin's coat, it is still in the care of his family as of three years ago. Several of us found the coat on display twenty plus years ago in Durango CO, called Hansen about it. The following year drove Charley from Loveland CO to Durango to visit with Tom Tobin's grandson (passed on a year or two later), he worked at the small museum where the coat was displayed. Charley talked until blue in the face trying to get it for the Fur Trade Museum. never got the job done. OFF TOPIC Kit Carson and Tom Tobin's kids where married, some have written that Carson and Tobin where cousins. I for one had read this and took it as true, now doing an article for the T&LR and Baker web site about Tobin and his adventures, have collected a pile of information from newspaper articles, have found not related at all, just the link with their children. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 12:29:00 -0500 From: "Texan" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: [OT Health Issues W/Metals] A quick note: To answer the question that I have been getting off list: Yes, there are ways to pull lead out of the body. Back in the "olden" days, the only way the doctors knew how to pull lead out was to hook a person up to an IV and run a solution through the blood. It was expensive and could only be done at a doctor's office or hospital. Now research has shown how to do it through diet and very specific supplements. I'll be getting into that in detail in the future data sheets. Help: I'm wanting to locate a muzzle loader who has a background in inorganic chemistry for the lead research project. Can you guys help me out? Contact me off list at vapate@juno.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 14:03:36 -0600 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] I went surfing & found some info on this subject which may be of interest to list members: Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on Lead Metal http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/l2347.htm MSDS on Copper http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/c5170.htm MSDS on Tin http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/t3445.htm MSDS on Mercury http://siri.uvm.edu/msds/h/q139/q171.html With all due respect to Victoria, and her sincere offer of help, there are some differing perspective on the medical value of hair analysis. Hair analysis in clinical and experimental medicine. (synopsis only) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?db=m&form=6&dopt=r&uid=3 303896 Commercial Hair Analysis http://www.familyinternet.com/quackwatch/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/hair.html Hair Analysis FAQ http://www.hcrc.org/faqs/hair.html Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred It is startling how much someone who has handled an ax for years can learn in a millisecond from mishandling an ax. --David Gidmark, _Birchbark Canoe_ ------------------------------ Date: 7 Oct 1999 13:12:58 -0700 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] On Thu, 07 October 1999, Angela Gottfred wrote: > > I went surfing & found some info on this subject which may be of interest to > list members: > > Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on Lead Metal > http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/l2347.htm > > MSDS on Copper > http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/c5170.htm > > MSDS on Tin > http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/t3445.htm > > MSDS on Mercury > http://siri.uvm.edu/msds/h/q139/q171.html > > With all due respect to Victoria, and her sincere offer of help, there are > some differing perspective on the medical value of hair analysis. > > Hair analysis in clinical and experimental medicine. (synopsis only) > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?db=m&form=6&dopt=r&uid=3 > 303896 > > Commercial Hair Analysis > http://www.familyinternet.com/quackwatch/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/hair.html > > Hair Analysis FAQ > http://www.hcrc.org/faqs/hair.html > > Your humble & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred Angela, Great find. Later, Buck Conner AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado Aux Ailments de Pays! _____________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 16:47:42 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: pinking shears Do not know of pinking shears in the 1700 to 1800's, but according to the dress makers books of the time, they did have an iron tool that had a saw tooth cut out. You put the material under the "die" and struck it. This would cut out cloth in the toothed dimension you wanted. You had to keep moving the material to make the cuts. The old Indian shirts, particularly the "pierced Shirts" used knives to cut the patterns on the surface. This made the many patterned holes on the front, back and sleeves. Linda holley hawknest4@juno.com wrote: > one of carsons jackets was pinked if i am not mistaken---the museum of > the fur trade has some examples of pinking I believe if i remember > correct--- > > "HAWK" > Michael Pierce > 854 Glenfield Dr. > Palm Harbor Florida 34684 Phone: 1-727-771-1815 > e-mail: hawknest4@juno.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 23:16:09 GMT From: rparker7@ix.netcom.com (Roy Parker) Subject: MtMan-List: Apology and last post (posted and emailed to several on the list) I've been offline for a few days, and contemplating my navel for a few more. I've been trying to come up with the proper words for this post, and still don't have them. So here's my best shot. I want to offer Buck and the rest of the list my humblest apologies for my previous post. I have absolutely no words to offer in excuse. There is no excuse for such behaviour. I cannot describe the shame and remorse I feel at this moment. There's a few folks on this list I've known for some time. I don't think any of them have ever seen me angry, because I try very hard to control my emotions. I've never in my life before been a raving maniac. But I sure was this time, and I don't know why. I totally lost control. Nothing Buck said deserved it. Buck, I truly hope you can find it in yourself to forgive my mean spirited words. =20 Best of luck to you all. =20 Roy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:18:42 -0400 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: MtMan-List: Osborne Russell's Death 1892 or 1865? 5:00 p.m. PST I was talking to Lanney this week about where Osborne Russell is buried. Many of you may remember that he died in a county hospital in Placerville, CA and was buried in a common, unmarked grave. Lanney asked me how old he was when he died and I said 51. I went back and looked at Aubrey Haines, Editor, introduction in Journal of a Trapper and Haines says that Russell died in Placerville but died in 1892 citing a death notice that appeared in the Placerville Mountain Democrat in September, 1892: Death Notice: at the County Hospital, August 26, 1892, Osborn Russel (Judge), a native of Maine, aged 78 years. I started wondering where I got my date and when I consulted my research I found I had gotten the 1865 date from the Dictionary of American Biography. Thinking that Haines would not have made such a mistake, I went to the library today and found a second source confirming the 1865 date, The American Biographical Dictionary, Historical Volume. Has any one noticed this before? If you have other references available will you check and see which date you find and post me at Wind1838@aol.com. Thank you. Laura Glise Wind1838@aol.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:24:23 -0400 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: amounts of food needed (while in camp). 5:30 p.m. PST I really liked Buck's post on measuring rations and the items and quantities he takes when he gets on the ground. This summer I found a small catalog by Blue Heron Mercantile Leatherstocking Supply BluHeron48@aol.com. Their daily rations are taken from the French and Indian War period but they are similar: Cornmeal or oats 2 handfuls Peas or beans 2 handfuls Parched corn 2 handfuls Dried meat 3-6 pieces (venison, beef, fish) Dried fruit 1-2 handfuls (apples, peaches, raisins, pumpkin or combination) Small red potatoes 2-3 each Small onions 1 each Maple or muscavado sugar 1-2 Tb Salt 1/2 t Peppercorns 4-10 each Coffee 1-2 handfuls (Alternate) Chocolate 1/2 - 1 full cake or tea 1-2 Tb. The company is owned by Jim and Christine Jacobs. Their small catalog is available at no charge by request. At 30 Sep 1999 10:49:16 -0700, you wrote: > >On Wed, 29 September 1999, R Lahti wrote: > >> >> > Cap, >> > I usually figure a cupped hand-full of: >> > >> > corn meal (per person)mixed with Hanava sugar, >> > wild rice (same measurement per person), >> > barley-pearled (same measurement per person), >> > split peas (same measurement per person), >> > fruit [dried apples or peaches](same measurement per person), >> > dried meat strips broken into 3" pieces (same measurement per person), >> > parched corn w/local nuts (same measurement per person), >> > tea (same measurement per person, lasts for 3-4 days) a little on the weak side last day. >> > _____________________________ >> > >> > This has worked for a 5 day outing, moving around camp, scouting, etc. but only lasts about 3 hard days of paddling (hard work will use up your supplies very fast). >> > _____________________________ >> >> Buck, >> >> That's a bit more varied a list of ingredients that I or my fellows >> carry. Might we impose on you as to how you utilize those items in meals >> over the course of a weekend or week's period of time, as in recipe's >> and for which meals and how many meals, etc.? I remain.. >> >> YMOS >> Capt. Lahti' >______________________________________________ >Cap., > >Lets start with the measurement for a "cupped hand-full" > = ( 1) measuring cup. > >This doesn't sound like much, I agree, but remember most dried edibles do swell when water is added. Rice, barley and peas will double in size or amount prepared. > >Most of us (not all) can go with less food from a few days to several weeks without any problem - doctors will tell you that the amount we eat regularly is a mind-set in most cases, we can do with less and would probably do better weight and health wise anyway. > >We try to eat two small regular meals daily, gathering or foraging for edibles in our short trips around camp when scouting game or looking at the area. When you get in a mind-set of watching for edibles as you make your scouts, it's surprising what you find, even if not hunting for squirrel, rabbits or flying foul. Wild edibles are everwhere it's just the problem of figuring out what your looking at. >Working around water is always a good place for small plants that are edible, as well as the little crawl fish, fish and small animals getting a drink. I think you are getting the idea or already do this in your normal outing experiences. > >I have a good friend that I wrote an article about a few years ago in the T&LR journal Dr. Jerry LaVelle, he's an expert at foraged edibles in the Rockies, takes a small frying pan, buffalo grease, period fishing kit and he's off for the weekend. His wife gets a little rattled about his limited resources, but he uses what is available at hand, cat-tail flour for bread (bannock), has different plant leaves for a salad and so on, she's good for about two weekends like this a year. But it can be done, so she goes to prove that she's a tough as he is !!!! I wish I had the mind-set, the ability or guts to believe enough in myself to do this as much as he has. > >Morning meal: >corn meal w/Havana Brown sugar,(Havana Brown is an old sugar [less costly than white sugar in the colonial days] have switch to blue corn - better taste) 1/2 cup per person with water, a few small pieces of fruit and small amount of tea (save the tea leaves), (forgot to put down two hand-fulls of corn flour last night), use a 1/2 cup per person of flour to make "bannock" bread (will produce a loaf per say the size of a regular hot dog). Surprisingly this will satisfy you, no matter what your brain says. > >Aftrenoon snack: >some parched corn, a little fruit and whatever you may find in your travels. > >Evening meal: >with a little testing you will be able to judge the amount of rice or barley needed to make a small portion, and not waste anything. We have used mixed small amount of wild rice, barley-pearled, split peas and a little jerky (changing the meal of one or two items) to make a stew, make with a little more water than what your wife would use - fills you up with the broth. Use your used tea leaves for a mild tea flavor. Use any left overs and try and eat late in the evening (going to bed on a full belly). > >Don't forget what you have foraged during the day that can be prepared to supplement your evening or morning meal. Our biggest problem seems to be mind-set that we are going to starve, hell you'll die from lack of water long before you'll starve. > >An old friend (in his mid 70s') had a heart attack, had been very active all his farming life, he refused any medical care when he found it was possible he would not walk again, his doctor respected his wishes and had him taken home. I would visit him in the evenings, he refused food and liquids and it took him 14 days to die. The lack of liquid is what shut him down, he only lost a few pounds in that period. > >So the chance of you doing great harm on a weekend or a week from the lack of food is really not a major problem according to most doctors, unless you have medical problems, special medication, etc. that may require you to use with food. > >But do make sure you keep liquids in your system, plus a good drank of water is some what filling by it's self. > >This all sounds great, right. Well it's easier to write or tell it - than when packing for that adventure, you'll find yourself cheating and adding this and that - just in case. You'll stop and think and remember that first hunting trip (a day long) and all the extra stuff you took that Dad told you wasn't needed, well just in case. > >The big thing Cap. is do some testing the night the wife had to work late, make up a meal, simple - small in amount, bottom line is testing brother. With your experience you'll have know problem, it's just that mind-set that we all fight with. I'm always packing and unpacking different amounts, if you take just so much - small amount of food, and leave out "the just in case" factor. Then your options are get along with what you got and start foraging. > >I wrote Bill Klesinger (web master) for the Jim Baker Party web site, and he will put that article on "Edibles of the Rockies" on the site this weekend if everything goes OK. This may give you some ideas about foraging and what the wild plants have to offer each and everyone of us. > >Keep in touch friends. > > > >Later, >Buck Conner > >AMM Jim Baker Party Colorado >Aux Ailments de Pays! >_____________________________ > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 21:56:01 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: TREK A search of Dean's site for the keyword "trek" actually used by Hunt / Wyeth: 1. Diary of Wilson Price Hunt's Overland Journey to Astoria 2. N. Wyeth's Journal - First Expedition ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:05:42 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: JAUNT A search of Dean's site for the keyword "jaunt" actually used by Wyeth / Ferris: 1. N. Wyeth's Second Expedition 2. Ferris' Life in the Rocky Mountains, Part 4. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:14:41 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: EXPLORE One good example of use of the word: Journal of John Work, November and December 1824. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:13:27 -0000 From: "Paul Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apology and last post Roy, After my note, I found this second message from you and noticed the "last post" commentary. Stuff and nonsense. We have all made such mistakes. As I said in response to your other message, welcome to our fire. Forget this last post business. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:50:59 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: EXPLORE Amendment - --WebTV-Mail-8595-2919 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit My error on citing John Work's Journal (not a correct example of use of word explore). A search of Dean's site showed many other legitimate good sources and first person quotes. Dean, possibility in future to have a searchable 3 Volume Lewis & Clark Journals (edited by Coues) ??? - --WebTV-Mail-8595-2919 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRtYmJxBkZKX//PfpL4WDi2g4UVwgIUOf85U9GwezI3Y9aH+yns+r6e1+s= From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:14:41 -0400 (EDT) To: hist_text@xmission.com Subject: EXPLORE Message-ID: <23186-37FD5391-845@postoffice-272.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) One good example of use of the word: Journal of John Work, November and December 1824. - --WebTV-Mail-8595-2919-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 23:41:02 -0400 From: Tom Roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: screening for metal toxicity[OFF TOPIC] Friends, Angela thank you for posting the MSDS links. I love facts. I work in an industry which relies dearly on MSDS information to provide worker protection and we consider the information to be reliable towards prevention of unnecessary risk. The information on lead appears to confirm the significant health hazards associated with overexposure. The additional information you provided (the article from Dr. Barrett), while somewhat dated, appears to confirm hair analysis as a reliable means for detection of heavy metals. This information appears also to indicate that (in the 80's) this testing may not be as reliable for measuring overall nutritional status. Could be much better today but I (we) don't know. I think it is important that we separate these two topics. This discussion all began due to a concern for lead and perhaps that should remain our focus? While nutrition in general is certainly a worthwhile topic of discussion, it would be quite a stretch of relevance for this list, whereas lead toxicity at least has some commonality. Since there appears to be some potential for controversy regarding this issue, interested persons will just have to weigh the facts for themselves. The difficult part is how we separate the facts from the claims. I am not medically trained in any way, but if I were seriously interested in learning the most reliable techniques for determining overall body chemistry and residual traces of any item, I would probably consult a forensic toxicologist. I would expect to pay handsomely for their service, assuming they were even for hire. Since that is not likely an option for those of us who may have an interest in learning our own state of lead content, we may have few alternatives. Just as I would not expect to find a fine original Hawken at Kmart, I also do not expect the highest level of accuracy or impartiality from a low cost "mail-in" service that may also be in the business of marketing products which are intended to alleviate the effects of whatever deficiencies their tests indicate. Likewise, I would not have the highest confidence in any testing method which is not proven traceable to an NIST standard. Having said all that, I see no reason why anyone should be overly concerned about this testing, provided they do not expect more than what is reasonable. Additionally, the results come without obligation (other than the obvious sacrifice of hair which for some of us could be quite significant). A similar business exists which purports to accurately analyze the health of your car's engine by testing an oil sample. There are professionals who consider this service a joke and there are equally credible professionals who consider it as gospel. Each decides the relative merits for themselves. I hope for two things: 1) that we maintain the great harmony and focus of this list, and 2) that we become wiser in taking care of that most precious commodity - our health. Sorry I've used so much space but I've been saving my "talk" credits and felt like blowing them all at once. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:50:07 -0500 From: Jim Colburn Subject: MtMan-List: Business announcement Washtahay- at the suggestion of one of our fine list members, I am going to actually set up my book sales on a regular basis. List will be mailed this Saturday, and every fourth Saturday thereafter. Will be specializing in books dealing with shooting, history, anthropology, and military history. Please reply privately to be added to the mailing list. LongWalker c. du B. (and bookdealer, I guess) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:13:34 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Apology and last post Roy Parker wrote: > > (posted and emailed to several on the list) > > I've been offline for a few days, and contemplating my navel for a few > more. I've been trying to come up with the proper words for this > post, and still don't have them. So here's my best shot. Roy, Well said Brother. Hell, your a better man than me if for no other reason than I can't see my navel to contemplate it! Welcome back. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #392 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.