From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #407 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, November 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 407 In this issue: -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: La Mecate -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: La Mecate -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: La Mecate -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Twisting Rope -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: La Mecate -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Beaver & Cougar -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Fwd: Beaver & Cougar - #2 -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List:In search of -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List:In search of -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Deschamps Sisters -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: AMM & New Outdoor Life Channel (far out thoughts) -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: AMM & New Outdoor Life Channel (far out thoughts) -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: AMM & New Outdoor Life Channel (far out thoughts) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:02:35 -0700 From: "Wynn Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: La Mecate This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF29C7.FFDD7F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When the second man comes around, and finds a piece of work imperfectly = done, whether it be cleaning the firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin = lodge, or washing a horse's back, he does not threaten the offender with = personal chastisement, but calls up another man and asks him, "Can you do this properly ?" "Yes, sir." "I will give you ten dollars to do it;" and the ten dollars is set down = to the account of the inefficient campkeeper. But he does not risk = forfeiting another ten dollars in the same manner. (River of the = West..Victor) If an campkeeper should be able to build a hair rope then I believe I = should be able to do it too. I have not been able to find instructions = anywhere else. Can anyone help me? Among other questions I wonder should it be twisted or braided and how = do you group the hairs together without leaving weak spots? Ymos Wynn - ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF29C7.FFDD7F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

When the second man comes around, and finds a piece of = work=20 imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning the firearms, making a hair = rope, or a=20 skin lodge, or washing a horse's back, he does not threaten the offender = with=20 personal chastisement, but calls up another man and asks = him,

"Can you do this properly ?"

"Yes, sir."

"I will give you ten dollars to do it;" and the ten = dollars is=20 set down to the account of the inefficient campkeeper. But he does not = risk=20 forfeiting another ten dollars in the same manner. (River of the=20 West..Victor)

If an campkeeper should be able to build a hair = rope then=20 I believe I should be able to do it too. I have not been able to find=20 instructions anywhere else. Can anyone help me?

Among other questions I wonder should it be twisted or = braided=20 and how do you group the hairs together without leaving weak = spots?

Ymos

Wynn

- ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF29C7.FFDD7F00-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 23:28:04 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: La Mecate Please keep in mind "Rivers of the West" only documents what a man (noted= for telling good stories) will tell a woman in bed. John... At 09:02 AM 11/8/99 -0700, you wrote:=20 > > When the second man comes around, and finds a piece of work imperfectly done, > whether it be cleaning the firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge,= or > washing a horse's back, he does not threaten the offender with personal > chastisement, but calls up another man and asks him, > > "Can you do this properly ?" > > "Yes, sir." > > "I will give you ten dollars to do it;" and the ten dollars is set down to > the account of the inefficient campkeeper. But he does not risk forfeiting > another ten dollars in the same manner. (River of the West..Victor)=20 > If an=A0 campkeeper should be able to build a hair rope then I believe I should > be able to do it too. I have not been able to find instructions anywhere > else. Can anyone help me? > > Among other questions I wonder should it be twisted or braided and how do you > group the hairs together without leaving weak spots? > > Ymos > > Wynn John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< mail to: =20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 21:45:17 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: La Mecate On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, John Kramer wrote: > Please keep in mind "Rivers of the West" only documents what a man (noted for > telling good stories) will tell a woman in bed. > > John... Geez John... that don't rule out a whole lot then does it Regards Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders lnewbill@uidaho.edu : http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 22:17:55 -0800 From: Pat Quilter Subject: MtMan-List: Twisting Rope Wynn asked: If an campkeeper should be able to build a hair rope then I believe I should be able to do it too. I have not been able to find instructions anywhere else. Can anyone help me?Among other questions I wonder should it be twisted or braided and how do you group the hairs together without leaving weak spots? (ANSWER) This is going to be hard without visuals. The process of twisting rope from fiber starts with stripped fiber -- long hair (from a horse's mane or tail, caution while collecting) or plant fibers -- the fibers from the various types of yucca spears are great. The plant fiber must be released from its binder (the green pulp that forms the body of the spear) by stripping the pulp with fingernail, back edge of knife, etc. One you have a supply of fibers form a bundle with enough fibers to get two matched bundles, anywhere from 10 fibers up per bundle depending on the thickness of cordage you are making. Now comes the hard part to explain. Even up one end of the bundle and knot it near the end. Separate into two equal bundles to form a "Y" and hold this in the left hand, pinching the base of the Y between thumb and forefinger, so the "Y" opens towards your other hand. Using your right hand, grab one of the bundles about one inch from where you're holding them with the left hand, and roll the fibers between thumb and forefinger, thus putting as much twist in as you readily can. Your right thumb is on top and moves away from your body, thus twisting the top of this bundle away from your body. Without releasing the twist, lift this bundle up and over the other one, and move the grip of your left hand about half-an-inch further along the bundle, so that you are now "trapping" most of the twisted part against the other bundle. Now grab the other bundle, bring it around to the top, and repeat the exact same thing. After you've done this for a couple of inches, you should begin to get a recognizable piece of cordage which does not particularly want to unwind. The secret of rope is when twisting two or more bundles in a certain direction, they want to untwist by wrapping themselves around each other in the other direction. Once this has occured, the rope is stable, since some of the twist has balanced out leaving a net twist to hold everything together. It's not real obvious till you do it that this is what the above manipulation accomplishes. There is an easy to make machine which twists several runs of twine with a common crank, until they countertwist themselves into rope, but the above process is a simple but laborious way of making the basic cordage. Once into the rhythm you can churn out 2-3 inches a minute, with no special equipment at all. It is easy to make fine strong cordage suitable for snares, etc. Once you get into the swing of this (which is easiest to practice with thread or somewhat sticky fibers -- I always have trouble with hair) you will find that you can blend in more fibers as you get near the end of a bundle, to maintain the thickness indefinitely. Twisting, like spinning, blends the new fibers into the bundle, and once they've been incorporated for a few inches they don't want to pull out. There are also advanced tricks where the two bundles can be rolled at the same time between palm and thigh twisting up several inches per pass, but this is a real knack and easy to mess up. This is sort of like trying to explain sign language without pictures, so I hope this helps. Pat Quilter - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 05:35:28 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: La Mecate - ---Original Message----- From: Wynn Ormond To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, November 08, 1999 10:09 PM Subject: MtMan-List: La Mecate >>If an campkeeper should be able to build a hair rope then I believe I should be able to do it too. I have not been able to find instructions anywhere else. Can anyone help me? There aren't many sources of instruction in this art as only a handfull of people still practice this art. Here are a couple of books that I would recommend if you are seriously interested in learning more: "Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding" by Bruce Grant "Leather Braiding" by Bruce Grant Both of these books are readily available.Basically, all of the weaves that are used in leather and rawhide braiding can be used for hair. A couple things I would point out are obviously you must have an adequate supply of hair available to work with. You can buy it if required and this may be something to consider as I would say fully half of the work involved is preparing the hair for braiding if you collect your own. Collecting your own can be done by cutting small bunches randomly from the base of the mane and tale and forming them into bundles that are approx. as big around as a pencil and as long as the hair is. You next have to go through a process of removing all hairs in every bundle which are short so as to leave you with a bundle with all hairs being the same length, and also all of the ends must be cut off even. White hair is finer and dark hair is courser so to make equal size bundles, it takes less dark hair. All the while you prepare the hair it must be kept nice and in order. Then you can begin braiding with several strands and this is not difficult, just pick a weave and remember you begin with several strands of varying lengths so when you come to the end each strand at a different point of the rope or whatever you are making you just tie in another strand. This is so there are no weak points. There are many other tricks and techniques to learn I could send you some diagrams on how to prepare the hair and some basic braids if you would like. I should also point out that this is quite time consuming and a slow process. Many of the remaining horse hair braided or hitched items that one finds these days have been made by folks in prison with nothing better to do. Good luck, Northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 21:25:53 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: Beaver & Cougar Click on Wildlife (mis)Management Title. The following link is a 7 minute audio clip about how the animal liberation lunatics in cohorts with the limousine liberals are creating havoc in Massachusetts, etc. by drastically altering the wildlife balance of beaver [your computer will need a soundcard and the Real Audio software]. http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=11/07/1999&PrgID=6 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 21:34:05 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: Fwd: Beaver & Cougar - #2 - --WebTV-Mail-6661-618 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit use the link below. previous link didn't work (error message). exact title of program to click on is WildLife Protection. - --WebTV-Mail-6661-618 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhQE8Xshez5KPdBMykNUThJ01w3BAAIVALRSPGR+eRQqmexncY1Spp8K2pZR From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 20:58:38 -0500 (EST) To: jondmarinetti@webtv.net Subject: Beaver & Cougar Message-ID: <11160-38277FCE-272@storefull-275.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Weekend All Things Considered Address:http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnpd01fm.cfm?PrgDate=11/07/1999&PrgID=6 - --WebTV-Mail-6661-618-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:43:12 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:In search of Hunting for a trade coin from the Chicken Ranch. Want to do a reproduction for a rendezvous coin. Can any of you men in Texas or anywhere else help. TrapRJoe@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:10:07 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List:In search of This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF2AEE.6ADE4D80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Joe, I don't have any idea where you would find such a thing. You might = try someone in that area. [ around La Grange ] I'll ask around, and = see what I can come up with. Something like that is going to be hard to = find since they shut down about 1978 , if I recall correctly. Pendleton -----Original Message----- From: TrapRJoe@aol.com To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 5:44 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List:In search of =20 =20 Hunting for a trade coin from the Chicken Ranch. Want to do a = reproduction=20 for a rendezvous coin. Can any of you men in Texas or anywhere else = help. =20 =20 =20 TrapRJoe@aol.com =20 ---------------------- hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF2AEE.6ADE4D80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Joe,

I don't have any idea = where you=20 would find such a thing. You might try someone in that area. = [=20 around La Grange ] I'll ask around, and see what I can come up = with. =20 Something like that is going to be hard to find since they shut down = about 1978=20 , if I recall correctly.

Pendleton

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 TrapRJoe@aol.com <TrapRJoe@aol.com>
To: = hist_text@lists.xmission.com= =20 <hist_text@lists.xmission.com= >
Date:=20 Tuesday, November 09, 1999 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: = MtMan-List:In=20 search of

Hunting for a trade coin from the = Chicken=20 Ranch. Want to do a reproduction
for a rendezvous = coin. Can=20 any of you men in Texas or anywhere else=20 = help.

&nbs= p; = ; = =20 TrapRJoe@aol.com

------------= - ----------
hist_text=20 list info: http://www.xm= ission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html
- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF2AEE.6ADE4D80-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:11:39 -0500 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: MtMan-List: Deschamps Sisters I've been reading and researching -- and I came across a reference to women in "Fur Traders Trappers and Mountain Men of the Upper Missouri," edited by LeRoy R. Hafen. The trader referenced was David Dawson Mitchell. The reference cited Mitchell married one of the "notorious" Deschamp sisters at Fort Union, then in 1840 he legally married Martha Eliza Berry in 1861. The note of a "notorious" Deschamp sister perked my interest. Does anyone know of these (wild women) sisters? Laura Glise - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 22:01:16 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: AMM & New Outdoor Life Channel (far out thoughts) 1. televising the various territorial rondezvous (Live or tape) to reach a greater audience. 2. televising rondezvous shooting matches (Live or tape) thru NRA-NMLRA sponsorship. [BTW, are various shooters ranked as to their marksmanship - who was/is the best flintlock pistoleer-rifleman in the AMM?]. 3. historical educational programs on clothing, edibles, Indian sign language, teepees, canoes, biographies of the voyageurs, mtmen, etc., etc. - ----------------------------------- E-CHIK, AH-HO from Michigan Territory - ----------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:40:22 +0000 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM & New Outdoor Life Channel (far out thoughts) JON MARINETTI wrote: > > 1. televising the various territorial rondezvous (Live or tape) to > reach a greater audience. > > 2. televising rondezvous shooting matches (Live or tape) thru NRA-NMLRA > sponsorship. > [BTW, are various shooters ranked as to their marksmanship - who was/is > the best flintlock pistoleer-rifleman in the AMM?]. > > 3. historical educational programs on clothing, edibles, Indian sign > language, teepees, canoes, biographies of the voyageurs, mtmen, etc., > etc. Brother, I missed something. What brought on this epiphany? I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 23:15:29 EST From: BarneyPFife@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM & New Outdoor Life Channel (far out thoughts) Cap't., don't think you missed anything; seems to me it was just jon havin' a brain fart , and not a bad one at that. Barn - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #407 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.