From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #419 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, December 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 419 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ? -       Re: MtMan-List: Trappers -       MtMan-List: Trappers -       MtMan-List: Trappers -       Re: MtMan-List: Trappers -       MtMan-List: AMM AUCTION` -       Re: MtMan-List: Trappers -       Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ? -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Trappers] -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?] -       Re: MtMan-List: OT relevant but OT -       MtMan-List: AMM AUCTION (AGAIN) -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?] -       Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?] -       MtMan-List: 1999 Xmas Greeting -       MtMan-List: Packs -       MtMan-List: AUCTION -       MtMan-List: Trappers/Traders ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 4 Dec 99 21:05:23 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ? Just got in after a 10 day period camp, scouting and making meat in a spe= cial season on private land here in the middle of Pennsylvania. Got a nice 9 point eastern count, I know guys in the west thats a weak 4 point. Don't comment Turtle or Buck, I don't want to hear you guys giving= me hell for shooting a baby. Just took a fast look at the internet and see Wendy has finished your per= sonal page Buck, looks good - lots of neat information we all can use. Anyone else make meat in the last few weeks, I have over 100 e-mails and = am sure several have written from the hist list of smake pole kills. Had bet= ter get busy have a ton of wash and getting ready to go back to work. Later Concho Smith Locks Bank, PA. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 19:00:55 -0700 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trappers Laura, I have been holding on to your request for names of trappers for your upcoming book. While many have given you their list already, I hope my input is not too late. There are many colorful characters to write about and the ones I would choose are( in no special order): old Bill Willaims Jedediah Smith Jim Bridger One or more of the Bent Brothers Willaim Ashley John Coulter John Smith Etienne Provost George Ruxton Laura, thse are a wide mix of men. Some regular trappers- others important in other areas (writers, fort builders and guides) and which cover the whole time frame. They are are very colorful characters, easy to write about and INTERESTING. All are not well known or if they are only about part of their lives. Anyway, hope this is a help. The area of writing you are doing this on is of interest for me, since I started my interest in history as a young boy of maybe 7 or 8 picking up a book on Kit Carson in the school library. Good Luck. mike. Laura Glise wrote: > 6:00 p.m. PST > > I would like help from the list with my latest project. > > I am writing a non-fiction book for young adults (interest level grade 4 and up) on the American fur trade. As an educator I know first-hand that most history books for young adults skip from Lewis and Clark to the Oregon Trail. Textbooks skip this important time in our nation's history and, with the exception of Bridger and maybe Beckworth, there aren't biographies on the shelves. > > Part of the book will include biographies on 7-10 trappers. > > I am interested in list member's opinions on which mountaineers should be included. Please contact me off the list with your ideas > > Wind1838@aol.com > Thank you. Laura Glise > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. > Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! > http://webmail.bellsouth.net > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 22:29:25 -0500 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: MtMan-List: Trappers Mike: Thank you for taking the time to respond to my request. I had not received a nomination for one or more of the Bent Brothers, or George Ruxton. I will study their lives with interest. It pleases me to hear your comment that you became a lover of history at seven or eight. With no prior desire to teach, I became an educator and a children's librarian. When my young boys were in first grade they wanted books on jellyfish and fire house dogs. When the same young boys became young men they wanted adventure and "disaster" books. I say they wanted, more accurately, they craved, stories of courage, adventure, and bravery. This may, indeed, be off topic. But I see a hunger in children, especially boys, for what was once categorized as growing up . . . . proudly carrying a pocket knife, popping a firecracker, playing cowboys and Indians. All these things are now politically incorrect and subversive. Leaves little room for the imagination, and a proud place for the body to grow into. I promised the boys I mentored that before they got out of high school I would write a book for them that would help them grow up. I can't really think of a better way than educating them in the ways that young trappers grew into men, confronting adversity and fear, in the face. Our children now face a different fear but many do not learn, at home, how to look down the barrel. Thank you again for your nominations. Laura Glise Wind1838@aol.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 23:37:28 -0500 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: MtMan-List: Trappers Mike: There was one more point I wanted to make in my reference to the young boys that are trying to grow into men now . . . many of them are growing up without men in their lives. Grandfathers or fathers. Only males that drop into and out of their lives all too quickly. A watered down lineage that breaks the heart. It's hard to grow into manhood without a proper role model. Even an inspiring book about mountaineers and the lives they led doesn't stand up to a firm handshake and the understanding of the concept of what a "man's word" means. Respectfully submitted, Laura Glise Wind1839@aol.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:34:15 -0800 From: randybublitz@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trappers Laura, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I want to scream every time I hear some 'talking head' speak of the lack of 'American heroes' for todays youth. Our rich History is packed full of wonderful heroes. All one needs to do to discover them is to read. Unfortunately the educational system has become so dumbed down, TV and video games have become so popular, and our history has been so disparaged that our youth are completely unaware of the multitude of heroes who made this country great. More power to you for trying to enlighten the young. Hardtack Your Second Amendment Rights protect ALL of your other Rights, Don't give up your Rights - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 10:06:47 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: AMM AUCTION` Hello and excuse the interuption in the scheduled programming. Just a quick reminder. 12 hrs to go on the AMM AUCTION Still some great bargains, and at EXACTLY 10P.M. E.S.T. I will pull the site and no bids will be accepted after that time. Thanks for y'alls support and help.. D - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 1999 08:14:00 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trappers On Sat, 04 December 1999, Mike Moore wrote: > > Laura, > I have been holding on to your request for names of trappers for your upcoming book. While many have given you their list already, I hope my input is not too late. There are many colorful characters to write about and the ones I would choose are( in no special order): > old Bill Willaims > Jedediah Smith > Jim Bridger > One or more of the Bent Brothers > Willaim Ashley > John Coulter > John Smith > Etienne Provost > George Ruxton - ------------------------------------------- Laura, When putting your list together for possible characters don't forget the businessmen (if they didn't provide an outlet to move the trappers goods none of this as we know it would have happened). Look at the lives of John Jacob Astor, the Bent's, several that stayed in the east like Tryon (a hardware firm, gun manufacturer and supplier - still in business today)or Saint Louis has several that started in the fur trade and are still going, the ones that where behind the trade it's self. A good example today, John Jacob Astor (the 6th,7th,8th not sure which number) has been involved with the rebuilding of Ft. Union, he knows where the family wealth was made originally - in the fur trade, then real estate. Seems many of this family have left out the first step in, the fur trade. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 1999 08:26:20 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ? On Sat, 04 December 1999, Concho Smith wrote: Got a nice 9 point eastern count, I know guys in the west thats a weak 4 point. Don't comment Turtle or Buck, I don't want to hear ..... OH BOY, we shot another baby (only kidding have done the same many times when growing up there), why don't you come and hunt with me in Jan. 2000 Concho, snow to butt, modern season (we still use muzzleloaders anyway), a correct period sled to pull game out with, the whole deal. With any luck an average mulie will be double the size of your PA whitetail, even our whitetails out do their counterparts. I keep waiting for this Fish & Game Dept. to wakeup and push whitetail hunting and look at a new breeding program like PA did in the late 50's and early 60's with northern white tails, now there's some serious game animals. > Just took a fast look at the internet and see Wendy has finished your personal page Buck,....... Have another 25-30 articles to add, then want to start a "family tree" web site as the rest of the bunch sit on their thumbs. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 99 14:03:49 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Trappers] Buck wrote: - ------------------------------------------- Laura, When putting your list together for possible characters don't forget the businessmen (if they didn't provide an outlet to move the trappers goods = none of this as we know it would have happened). Look at the lives of John Jac= ob Astor, the Bent's, several that stayed in the east like Tryon (a hardware= firm, gun manufacturer and supplier - still in business today)or Saint Lo= uis has several that started in the fur trade and are still going, the ones t= hat where behind the trade it's self. A good example today, John Jacob Astor (the 6th,7th,8th not sure which nu= mber) has been involved with the rebuilding of Ft. Union, he knows where the fa= mily wealth was made originally - in the fur trade, then real estate. Seems ma= ny of this family have left out the first step in, the fur trade. Later, Buck _____________________________________ Good point, probably why so many have been missed is they led normal live= s with day to day routines of the business, not the exciting events we all = like to read about like Smith, Bridger, etc. - they are the ones that sell the= books. Not someone placing orders, making a product, etc. See Ya Concho Smith Locks Bank, PA. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 99 14:10:24 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?] Buck wrote: OH BOY, we shot another baby (only kidding have done the same many times = when growing up there), why don't you come and hunt with me in Jan. 2000 Conch= o, snow to your butt, modern season (we still use muzzleloaders anyway), a correct period sled to pull game out with, the whole deal....... - ---------------------- Why didn't you mention this at Thanksgiving when I was at your place, apparently more than one turkey at the table, right Dennis M. ? I'll let you know on Monday evening, so be home to get my call and I'm ho= lding you to me getting a big mulie (even if you have to tie it up the weekend before) Thanks Buck for everything while at the house and this offer. Concho ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 12:41:53 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: OT relevant but OT The following came through the other day and I found it enlightening. I normally don't post such to this list. As things have been relatively quiet= I thought some might enjoy. John... >=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Conservative Caucus Documents of Freedom= Collection >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 "Not Yours To Give" >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 by= Col. David Crockett >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 US Representative= from Tennesee >=20 >=A0=A0=A0 Originally published in "The Life of Colonel David Crockett," by >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= Edward Sylvester Ellis. >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > One day in the House of Representatives a bill was taken up > appropriating money for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished > naval officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in its > support. The speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett > arose: >=20 > "Mr. Speaker--I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, > and as much sympathy for the suffering of the living, if there be, as > any man in this House, but we must not permit our respect for the dead > or our sympathy for part of the living to lead us into an act of > injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument > to prove that Congress has not the power to appropriate this money as > an act of charity. Every member on this floor knows it. >=20 > We have the right as individuals, to give away as much of our own > money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no > right to appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent > appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the > deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the > war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I ever heard that > the government was in arrears to him. >=20 > "Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot without the > grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. > We have not the emblance of authority to appropriate it as charity. > Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of > our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot > vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and > if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more > than the bill asks." >=20 > He took his seat. Nobody replied. The bill was put upon its passage, > and, instead of passing unanimously, as was generally supposed, and > as, no doubt, it would, but for that speech, it received but few > votes, and, of course, was lost. >=20 > Later, when asked by a friend why he had opposed the appropriation, > Crockett gave this explanation: >=20 > "Several years ago I was one evening standing on the steps of the > Capitol with some members of Congress, when our attention was > attracted by a great light over in Georgetown. It was evidently a > large fire. We jumped into a hack and drove over as fast as we could. > In spite of all that could be done, many houses were burned and many > families made houseless, and besides, some of them had lost all but > the clothes they had on. The weather was very cold, and when I saw so > many children suffering, I felt that something ought to be done for > them. The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for > their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed it through as > soon as it could be done. >=20 > "The next summer, when it began to be time to think about election, I > concluded I would take a scout around among the boys of my district. I > had no opposition there but, as the election was some time off, I did > not know what might turn up. When riding one day in a part of my > district in which I was more of a stranger than any other, I saw a man > in a field plowing and coming toward the road. I gauged my gait so > that we should meet as he came up, I spoke to the man. He replied > politely, but as I thought, rather coldly. >=20 > "I began: 'Well friend, I am one of those unfortunate beings called > candidates and--- >=20 > "Yes I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once > before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose > you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time > or mine, I shall not vote for you again." >=20 > "This was a sockdolger...I begged him tell me what was the matter. >=20 > "Well Colonel, it is hardly worthwhile to waste time or words upon it. > I do not see how it can be mended, but you gave a vote last winter > which shows that either you have not capacity to understand the > Constitution, or that you are wanting in the honesty and firmness to > be guided by it. In either case you are not the man to represent me. > But I beg your pardon for expressing it that way. I did not intend to > avail myself of the privilege of the constituent to speak plainly to a > candidate for the purpose of insulting you or wounding you.' >=20 > "I intend by it only to say that your understanding of the > constitution is very different from mine; and I will say to you what > but for my rudeness, I should not have said, that I believe you to be > honest. >=20 > But an understanding of the constitution different from mine I cannot > overlook, because the Constitution, to be worth anything, must be held > sacred, and rigidly observed in all its provisions. The man who wields > power and misinterprets it is the more dangerous the honest he is.' >=20 > " 'I admit the truth of all you say, but there must be some mistake. > Though I live in the backwoods and seldom go from home, I take the > papers from Washington and read very carefully all the proceedings of > Congress. My papers say you voted for a bill to appropriate $20,000 to > some sufferers by fire in Georgetown. Is that true? >=20 > "Well my friend; I may as well own up. You have got me there. But > certainly nobody will complain that a great and rich country like ours > should give the insignificant sum of $20,000 to relieve its suffering > women and children, particularly with a full and overflowing treasury, > and I am sure, if you had been there, you would have done just the > same as I did.' >=20 > "It is not the amount, Colonel, that I complain of; it is the > principle. In the first place, the government ought to have in the > Treasury no more than enough for its legitimate purposes. But that has > nothing with the question. The power of collecting and disbursing > money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to > man, particularly under our system of collecting revenue by a tariff, > which reaches every man in the country, no matter how poor he may be, > and the poorer he is the more he pays in proportion to his means. >=20 > What is worse, it presses upon him without his knowledge where the > weight centers, for there is not a man in the United States who can > ever guess how much he pays to the government. So you see, that while > you are contributing to relieve one, you are drawing it from thousands > who are even worse off than he. >=20 > If you had the right to give anything, the amount was simply a matter > of discretion with you, and you had as much right to give $20,000,000 > as $20,000. If you have the right to give at all; and as the > Constitution neither defines charity nor stipulates the amount, you > are at liberty to give to any and everything which you may believe, or > profess to believe, is a charity and to any amount you may think > proper. You will very easily perceive what a wide door this would open > for fraud and corruption and favoritism, on the one hand, and for > robbing the people on the other. 'No, Colonel, Congress has no right > to give charity.' >=20 > "'Individual members may give as much of their own money as they > please, but they have no right to touch a dollar of the public money > for that purpose. If twice as many houses had been burned in this > country as in Georgetown, neither you nor any other member of Congress > would have Thought of appropriating a dollar for our relief. There are > about two hundred and forty members of Congress. If they had shown > their sympathy for the sufferers by contributing each one week's pay, > it would have made over $13,000. There are plenty of wealthy men > around Washington who could have given $20,000 without depriving > themselves of even a luxury of life.' >=20 > "The congressmen chose to keep their own money, which, if reports be > true, some of them spend not very creditably; and the people about > Washington, no doubt, applauded you for relieving them from necessity > of giving what was not yours to give. The people have delegated to > Congress, by the Constitution, the power to do certain things. To do > these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing > else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the > Constitution.' >=20 > "'So you see, Colonel, you have violated the Constitution in what I > consider a vital point. It is a precedent fraught with danger to the > country, for when Congress once begins to stretch its power beyond the > limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, and no security > for the people. I have no doubt you acted honestly, but that does not > make it any better, except as far as you are personally concerned, and > you see that I cannot vote for you.' >=20 > "I tell you I felt streaked. I saw if I should have opposition, and > this man should go to talking and in that district I was a gone > fawn-skin. I could not answer him, and the fact is, I was so fully > convinced that he was right, I did not want to. But I must satisfy > him, and I said to him: >=20 > "Well, my friend, you hit the nail upon the head when you said I had > not sense enough to understand the Constitution. I intended to be > guided by it, and thought I had studied it fully. I have heard many > speeches in Congress about the powers of Congress, but what you have > said here at your plow has got more hard, sound sense in it than all > the fine speeches I ever heard. If I had ever taken the view of it > that you have, I would have put my head into the fire before I would > have given that vote; and if you will forgive me and vote for me > again, if I ever vote for another unconstitutional law I wish I may be > shot.' >=20 > "He laughingly replied; 'Yes, Colonel, you have sworn to that once > before, but I will trust you again upon one condition. You are > convinced that your vote was wrong. Your acknowledgment of it will do > more good than beating you for it. If, as you go around the district, > you will tell people about this vote, and that you are satisfied it > was wrong, I will not only vote for you, but will do what I can to > keep down opposition, and perhaps, I may exert some little influence > in that way.' >=20 > "If I don't, said I, 'I wish I may be shot; and to convince you that I > am in ernest in what I say I will come back this way in a week or ten > days, and if you will get up a gathering of people, I will make a > speech to them. Get up a barbecue, and I will pay for it.' >=20 > "No, Colonel, we are not rich people in this section but we have > plenty of provisions to contribute for a barbecue, and some to spare > for those who have none. The push of crops will be over in a few days, > and we can then afford a day for a barbecue. 'This Thursday; I will > see to getting it up on Saturday week. Come to my house on Friday, and > we will go together, and I promise you a very respectable crowd to see > and hear you. >=20 > "'Well I will be here. But one thing more before I say good-bye. I > must know your name." >=20 > "'My name is Bunce.' >=20 > "'Not Horatio Bunce?' >=20 > "'Yes >=20 > "'Well, Mr. Bunce, I never saw you before, though you say you have > seen me, but I know you very well. I am glad I have met you, and very > proud that I may hope to have you for my friend.' >=20 > "It was one of the luckiest hits of my life that I met him. He mingled > but little with the public, but was widely known for his remarkable > intelligence, and for a heart brim-full and running over with kindness > and benevolence, which showed themselves not only in words but in > acts. He was the oracle of the whole country around him, and his fame > had extended far beyond the circle of his immediate acquaintance. > Though I had never met him, before, I had heard much of him, and but > for this meeting it is very likely I should have had opposition, and > had been beaten. One thing is very certain, no man could now stand up > in that district under such a vote. >=20 > "At the appointed time I was at his house, having told our > conversation to every crowd I had met, and to every man I stayed all > night with, and I found that it gave the people an interest and > confidence in me stronger than I had ever seen manifested before. >=20 > "Though I was considerably fatigued when I reached his house, and, > under ordinary circumstances, should have gone early to bed, I kept > him up until midnight talking about the principles and affairs of > government, and got more real, true knowledge of them than I had got > all my life before." >=20 > "I have known and seen much of him since, for I respect him - no, that > is not the word - I reverence and love him more than any living man, > and I go to see him two or three times every year; and I will tell > you, sir, if every one who professes to be a Christian lived and acted > and enjoyed it as he does, the religion of Christ would take the world > by storm. >=20 > "But to return to my story. The next morning we went to the barbecue > and, to my surprise, found about a thousand men there. I met a good > many whom I had not known before, and they and my friend introduced me > around until I had got pretty well acquainted - at least, they all > knew me. >=20 > "In due time notice was given that I would speak to them. They > gathered up around a stand that had been erected. I opened my speech > by saying: >=20 > "Fellow-citizens - I present myself before you today feeling like a > new man. My eyes have lately been opened to truths which ignorance or > prejudice or both, had heretofore hidden from my view. I feel that I > can today offer you the ability to render you more valuable service > than I have ever been able to render before. I am here today more for > the purpose of acknowledging my error than to seek your votes. That I > should make this acknowledgment is due to myself as well as to you. > Whether you will vote for me is a matter for your consideration only." >=20 > "I went on to tell them about the fire and my vote for the > appropriation and then told them why I was satisfied it was wrong. I > closed by saying: >=20 > "And now, fellow-citizens, it remains only for me to tell you that the > most of the speech you have listened to with so much interest was > simply a repetition of the arguments by which your neighbor, Mr. > Bunce, convinced me of my error. >=20 > "It is the best speech I ever made in my life, but he is entitled to > the credit for it. And now I hope he is satisfied with his convert and > that he will get up here and tell you so.' >=20 > "He came up to the stand and said: >=20 > "Fellow-citizens - it affords me great pleasure to comply with the > request of Colonel Crockett. I have always considered him a thoroughly > honest man, and I am satisfied that he will faithfully perform all > that he has promised you today.' >=20 > "He went down, and there went up from that crowd such a shout for Davy > Crockett as his name never called forth before.' >=20 > "I am not much given to tears, but I was taken with a choking then and > felt some big drops rolling down my cheeks. And I tell you now that > the remembrance of those few words spoken by such a man, and the > honest, hearty shout they produced, is worth more to me than all the > honors I have received and all the reputation I have ever made, or > ever shall make, as a member of Congress.' >=20 > "Now, sir," concluded Crockett, "you know why I made that speech > yesterday. "There is one thing which I will call your attention, "you > remember that I proposed to give a week's pay. There are in that House > many very wealthy men - men who think nothing of spending a week's > pay, or a dozen of them, for a dinner or a wine party when they have > something to accomplish by it. Some of those same men made beautiful > speeches upon the great debt of gratitude which the country owed the > deceased--a debt which could not be paid by money--and the > insignificance and worthlessness of money, particularly so > insignificant a sum as $20,000 when weighed against the honor of the > nation. Yet not one of them responded to my proposition. Money with > them is nothing but trash when it is to come out of the people. But it > is the one great thing for which most of them are striving, and many > of them sacrifice honor, integrity, and justice to obtain it." >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Use it up, wear it out, make do, or do without.=20 john kramer@kramerize.com =20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:23:41 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: AMM AUCTION (AGAIN) Hi all, Just a quick word...If you haven't checked the Auction in the last 5 minutes and think you still have that high bid on an item, better check again.. The bids are a flyin' like lead at a Blackfoot... Thanks D - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:36:23 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?] Concho Wrote: Why didn't you mention this at Thanksgiving when I was at your place,apparently more than one turkey at the table, right Dennis M. ? >>Concho, as much as I would like to chime in on this, I won't.. You see, Buck is patiently waiting for a knife, and I don't wanna rile the ol' coot.. If you catch my drift.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:50:43 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: Anyone make meat with their muzzleloader ?] Hi, Gee, I mis-spoke.. I MEANT "Silver Haired Gentleman"... D Dennis Miles wrote: > ol' coot.. - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 5 Dec 1999 15:16:24 -0800 From: Buck Subject: MtMan-List: 1999 Xmas Greeting 1999 Xmas Greeting from Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. At this wonerful time of the year, remember those of the past and present, loved ones and friends, God Bless them all. We've given you a little history of what was going on with the Corp of Discovery under the direction of Lewis & Clark. On Christmas Eve, the temperature climbed above zero - and almost above freezing. Fort Mandan was deemed officially complete, and the captains handed out dried apples, pepper, and extra flour for the next day's meal and celebration. Just before Christmas dawn, the captains were awakened by the men, all if them, Clark noted, "merrily disposed." ************ December 25th, 1804. We ushed [in] the morning with a discharge of the Swivvel [gun], and one round of Small arms of all the party. Then another from the Swivvel. Then Capt. Clark presented a glass of brandy to each man of the party. We hoisted the american flag, and each man had another Glass of brandy. The men prepared one of the rooms and commenced dancing. At 10 o'c [lock] we had another Glass of brandy, at one a gun was fired as a Signal for diner. Half past two another gun was fired to assemble at the dance, and So we kept it up in a jov[ia]l manner untill eight o'c[lock] at night, all without the company of the female Seck [sex]. Joseph Whitehouse The mandans were asked not to visit the fort on Christmas because, the captains explained, it was a "great medicine" day for the expedition. But on New Year's, the men celebrated with their Indian hosts. ************ January 1st, 1806. Our repast of this day, tho' better than that of Cristmass, consisted principally in the anticipation of the 1st day of January 1807, when in the bosom of our friends we hope to participate in the mirth and hilarity of the day, and when with the zest given by the recollection of the present, we shall completely, both mentally and corporally, enjoy the repast which the hand of civilization has prepared for us. MERIWETHER LEWIS Men were put to work making candles, boiling ocean water for salt, preserving elk meat in a smokehouse, and sewing clothes from elk hides for the return trip home. Clark labored over a new map that would replace eastern speculation with the hard facts of western geography. Lewis wrote page after page of descriptions of animals and plants unknown to science-from the giant sitka spruce tree to the evergreen huckleberry; from ring-necked ducks and whistling swans to small smelt-the candlefish-that the men roasted and ate whole. For a new year it seems things are well with our early travelers, fed and full of thoughts of returning home. In the next life may we experience such an adventure, and may God see us fit enough to handle the chore. The Conner's dba/ Clark & Sons Mercantile, Inc. http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ ************ Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:28:24 +0000 From: The Sweeneys Subject: MtMan-List: Packs Hello List, Being a horse poor mountaineer that travels by foot and occasionally by canoe, can anyone tell me what type of pack was most common for during the 1820-1840 era. All the info I can find on packs refer to the type used during the French and Indian War, were these still being used? Any info would be greatly appreciated. See you down the trail. Mick - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:32:20 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: MtMan-List: AUCTION Once agin, Pardon the intrusion, this is my last.. The AMM AUCTION closes in 1/2 hr. (10 P.M E.S.T.) Thai is the time to slide that last minute bid in... www.wesnet.com/deforge1/Auction.htm Thanks D - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:59:48 -0500 From: "Laura Glise" Subject: MtMan-List: Trappers/Traders I agree about the inclusion of traders, and I also agree that most of their lives were pale in comparison with the lives of trappers. Lanney loaned me his copy of Fur traders, trappers, and mountain men of the Upper Missouri/edited by LeRoy R. Hafen, introduction to the Bison edition by Scott Eckberg. I enjoyed reading about Frances Ermatinger's style, and have followed his footsteps in Oregon and visited the home that Chief Factor McLoughlin built for him in Oregon City. I also enjoyed reading about David Dawson Mitchell. Do you know he got the $1,000 he needed for supplies for his men by escorting a wealthy senora to a ball? Perks the imagination doesn't it? Kenneth McKenzie of the American Fur Company, Head of the Upper Missouri outfit's hospitality of serving iced wine in buckets to his guests. And, I know Dennis Miles will enjoy this one - William Laidlaw, described by Audubon as a "true Scot and apparently a clean one." Laura Glise Wind1838@aol.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. 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