From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #429 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, December 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number 429 In this issue: -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: wide wale corduroy -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Doing it. was brain tan -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: brain tan -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: brain tan -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Learnin' -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: brain tan -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: downing the AMM -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: downing the AMM -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: brain tan -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: question -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: AMM Requirements -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: question -牋牋牋 Re: [Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 18:29:50 -0600 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: wide wale corduroy This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4A4F.094A4F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I found mine at Hancocks fabric store. Not many carry it, but from time = to time even a blind hog finds an acorn, but only if he roots around = long enough Lanney. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John McKee=20 To: AMM COMMON LIST=20 Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 5:59 PM Subject: MtMan-List: wide wale corduroy After reading Brother Lanney's missive about having wide wale corduroy = ( totally period correct ) pants, it prompted me to ask if anyone on the = list where I might find same in bulk yardage? Thank you, in advance, = for any information. Long John - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4A4F.094A4F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I found mine at Hancocks fabric store. Not many carry it, but = from=20 time to time even a blind hog finds an acorn, but only if he roots = around long=20 enough

Lanney.

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 John=20 McKee

To: AMM COMMON LIST

Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 = 5:59=20 PM

Subject: MtMan-List: wide wale=20 corduroy

After reading Brother = Lanney's=20 missive about having wide wale corduroy ( totally period correct ) = pants, it=20 prompted me to ask if anyone on the list where I might find same in = bulk=20 yardage? Thank you, in advance, for any information. Long=20 John

- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BF4A4F.094A4F80-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:33:20 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Doing it. was brain tan - -----Original Message----- From: Allen Hall To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 1:57 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Doing it. was brain tan >At 08:48 AM 12/19/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >>So what is the ultimate result of making a new member of your club make a >>"brain tan" outfit? Seems like the comparison to a college initiation is a >>good one. > >I consider that this requirement is part of the "doing" not the "talking". >Anyone can read about how to do it, and get an understanding. But until >that hide comes out soft and nice, it's all hypothetical. > >This requirement also stems from the surivial aspects of the primitive >skills. If you were stuck, with this skill you could make clothing, >rawhide, etc. Try chrome tanning out in the woods....... > >> >>The desire to emulate and preserve the lifestyles of people who we admire >>that have come before us is definitely an admirable one. Personally I think >>the world would be a better place if more folks studied history because I >>think it puts the present in better perspective. But I often think that to >>truly know what life was like for say a "mountain man" greater sacrifices >>would have to be made than studying first hand narratives and trying to >>dress like them. And going on "camping trips"for a few months of the year >>don't quite cut it either. > >No one has said that this puts us in their shoes (or moccasins), but it sure >puts us a lot closer than not doing it. And by reading the journals you >learn what they did and how them made it through. Again, this is "doing" >and not "talking". > >>How many folks who are in the AMM have wintered alone in a remote area with >>no contact with folks or resupply? There are folks who do it and its the >>only life they know. > >First of all, how many of the old mountain men wintered alone. Very few. A >man alone in the Rockies was called "gone beaver" or today as a victim. >Even friendly tribes would rub out a lone man. Wintering alone is pretty >much a Hollywood "Jerimiah Johnson" myth. > >And I'm sure that there are folks that do it today. But 1999 isn't 1829, >the conditions and all else is completely different. How many of these >folks wintering use the tools and technology of the early 1800's? And >finally, for them that do, good for them! > >>I think sometimes folks with the desire to be historically accurate get >>carried away and lose site of there true goals and the intent of there >>undertaking. > >Some do, sure. Some don't. But as you observed, it's their undertaking....... > >What do you suggest is the way to go? > >Allen Hall in Fort Hall country > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > As far as "what do I suggest is the way to go?" I would have to ask, what are you trying to accomplish? If you are trying to preserve a certain way of life like the mountain men had for instance, then I think there are numerous ways to go. I think what re-enactors do is great, and if thats what "floats there stick", than more power to them. All of the requirements to be a member of the AMM for instance I am sure provide some very good learning experiences on subjects that potential and current members are interested in learning more about, and when you want to learn about something, a source of knowledge can be a very treasured possession. But I wonder what some of these folks who lived in the past, say Jed Smith, or Jim Bridger, or Broken Hand, or Bill Williams would say if they could see us communicating on the "internet", and living the way most of us do, and trying to copy there lifestyles by study and dress and whatever other way we care to. There is a saying that when you choose your partners to spend time in the woods or "on the ground" with, choose them very carefully. Personally I wouldn't choose mine primarily by what they wore or there outfit. northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:20:42 -0600 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan Don't worry, Mr Colburn, it isn't likely that you will be asked to = participate in our little "fraternity initiation", not in my party = anyway. Perhaps you will be better served if you formed your own = outfit, complete with a charter full of high-falutin' words of your own = choosing. You could get plenty of serious historical research done = while keeping you feet on the ground for some good woodsrunning. Maybe = you will be able to meet your own requirements because I doubt you could = meet ours. Particularly since you don't seem to have a clue about what = they are. Your comments remind me of one of my relatives, long dead, thankfully, = that always imagined himself to be smart enough to insult me. He left = this world the same way he lived in it....full of himself and completely = unaware of the low regard in which he was held by all with whom he came = in contact. I always wondered what color the sky was in his world. Lanney Ratcliff - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim Colburn To: Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:08 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan > WAshtahay- > At 01:46 PM 12/18/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hey all, > > This is how we work it here in the Brigade.(in ref. to Dave Kanger's > quiestion > >on tasks) > > When you start as a Pilgrim, you start cold, Period....And do 'em as = you > go, if > >you have done 'em before you were invited to join the AMM, do 'em = again.... > It was so tempting to write a letter comparing this kind of conduct to > college fraternity initiations, poking fun at anyone who would put up = with > this. But I won't.=20 > =20 > Instead, I'll ask if anyone knows of an organization that really = combines > serious historical research with real live feet-on-the-ground = woodsrunning > on a more than quarterly or semi-annual basis. I'd really appreciate > knowing of such a group, even if I can take the time to join right = now. It > would be somehow uplifting to know that wome group somewhere is = actually > living up to the spirit and the letter of the high-falutin' words of = their > charter. =20 > LongWalker C. du B. >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:57:05 -0600 From: Jim Colburn Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan Washtahay- one of these days I will learn not to try to have discussions on this topic. As you wish this to be continued on the list, here goes... At 04:07 PM 12/19/99 -0800, you wrote: > Exactly what is your "experience" regarding the outfits and equipage >of THE AMM members ? Approximately twenty years watching them; observing their outfits, equipage and mannerisms. Maybe 100-150 days spent in the company of various members in camp, on the trail or in the field, conducting research projects, as guests in their homes or guests in mine. >How much "real research" have you done ? I got started reading and researching in this field about 1980, and went to work for a local museum about then. By the time I went to college up in Chadron NE in '84 I thought I was doing pretty good. I then proceded to undergo an "advanced course" in research as a volunteer at the MFT. (At that time, the late Mr. Hanson was kind enough to comment that my outfit was "pretty good-you have to be within ten feet to see the mistakes".) In the intervening years I have continued researching the topic of the fur trade; in particular the presence of Europeans in the West up to about 1840 and the secondary trade in European goods by the natives of various areas. As part of my current job, I am conducting a review of the journals of North American fur traders, hunters, frontiersmen, and travelers from Columbus to about 1920 (I also freelance as a researcher for various professors and writers). Amongst other things over break, I am polishing a manuscript I was requested to write, and considering an offer to co-author a book. At various times in the past I have made a living as a fur hunter and trapper, relying on pre-1850 equipment and techniques. I've made a number of 1:1 museum-quality reproductions of various artifacts in exchange for references, manuscripts, and artifacts for my own collection. Working from descriptions in the literature I've made dugout and birchbark canoes, half-faced camps, etc. As time allows, I retrace the routes of various obscure travelers across the plains. If I might be so bold as to ask, sir, what is the extent of your own research? > Do you know what a AMM member's gear is supposed to emulate ? While I could paraphrase my understanding, it would seem simpler to quote from the Bossloper requirements Dean has posted; "Must have a full set of hand-cut and -sewn clothing and handmade accoutrements. These must be researched for authenticity of the 1800-40 period and be of a type which would have been seen on men in, or moving to, the Rocky Mountains. Rifles, saddles, traps, blankets, and other accoutrements that would normally have required the work of a specialized craftsman need not be handmade, but must be as authentic as can be purchased today." A best I can remember, those haven't changed since I first read the requirements in '81. >Have you attended a AMM event ? Walk-ins and hunting camps, by invitation. >Or are you making these observations based on what you see at regular >open rendezvous ? Most us of carry the same stuff everyone else does >when attending a rendezvous with the women and kids. Granted, all >AMM members do not carry museum quality gear, but to be sure, it is >right for the time period.when they are at a AMM event. "Right for the time period"? I find that interesting, based on some of the statements made to me by various members. I was told that these _were_ AMM events, that the equipment I saw was all "pre-1840". Sticking in my memory is a walk-in where I saw sueded split cowhide, bright orange chrome-tan leather, machine sewn clothing, fabric and blankets with modern-pattern printing, late pattern firearms (ca 1850 contract pieces, CW muskets, 1861 Navy Colt's), stainless-steel butcher knives, bowie knives, Tandy high-topped mocs, Taiwanese loomed beadwork, Bic lighters, filter-tip cigarettes, styrofoam coolers of bottled beer, plastic tarps for groundcloths, etc. You consider this "right for the period"? > Your inference to Dennis' comment about trusting his life with any >AMM member, seems to be that many AMM members are not trustworthy. Sir, >I consider that a insult. To suggest that because a AMM member was not > qualified to handle a medical emergency and therefore was not >trustworthy is a ridicules assumption. I apologize if you failed to understand the meaning of my statement. In response to his statement, I said that my experience had been to the contrary and cited an example. No inference "that many AMM members are not trustworthy"-a flat-out statement that my experience was different. I also apologize for not communicating with adequate clarity regarding the emergency. I am not saying that a lack of qualifications to deal with an emergency makes a person untrustworthy. I am saying that in my opinion running away and not even calling an ambulance _does_ qualify a person as not to be trusted. I could cite further examples from my own experience. I chose not to cite the experiences of others; I wasn't there, don't know all the details. > You have been contacted by many folks who are members of an organization >that pursues ongoing research and frequent time in the field, The members >of THE AMM do just that. As I said, it appears to me that many-if not the majority-of the members I have met are not concerned about historical accuracy-that they reach a comfort level and stop progressing. I also acknowledged that I have not met all the members of the AMM. >As far as historical recreation, I don't know what you are looking for. Need I keep repeating this? As I said, I am seeking an "organization that combines actual ongoing research, ongoing efforts for serious historical recreation, and frequent time in the field". It has been my experience that the AMM-at least what I have seen of it-is not the group I am seeking. > You say you would not want to be a member of any organization that you >could just join, No. Dennis said that. In response, I said "I tend to agree with Clemen's comments about not being willing to join any organization that would have me!" I apologize if my feeble attempt at a joke by means of a literary reference was lost on you. >Sir, you do not just join THE AMM. You are invited to join. Yep. In my case, several times beginning with an offer to sponsor me in 1983. >Then you serve a appropriate time period as a pilgrim before gaining >full membership, not to see if a person "fits in" but to gain the >knowledge and experience expected of AMM members. Then what purpose is served by making those who join already having that experience go through the same procedure? >If you were as well informed as you think you are you would know that >there are degrees of advancement in this organization and those are there > to serve as a challenge for the more experienced members. Gosh, as a matter of fact, I am aware of that-and so stated in my previous post. As I said before, it would seem to make more sense to start experienced new members working towards those levels rather than as beginners. > You have had the benefit of access to the vast amount of knowledge >available on this list which is here for you to use due to the >efforts of a AMM member, and yet you use it to refer to our requirements >as " fratboy initiations". Again Sir, I consider that a insult, and I >feel a apology is in order, not to me but to our organization. Let me get this straight-you want me to apologize because you mis-quote me above? Please see my previous post and read what I actually wrote. I am not responsible for you taking my comments out of context and mis-quote me, and I'll not apologize for it. >> Do not attempt to contact me off list because I will not respond, you >opened this line of discussion on this list, so here it is. >Larry Pendleton AMM # 1572 Bossloper I have answered your statements- ignoring your confrontational attitude, seemingly deliberate misquotes, and ignoring what I actually wrote. Perhaps at this point it would be best to acknowledge that we have had different experiences and drop it. LongWalker c. du B. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:38:52 -0600 From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: MtMan-List: Learnin' This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF4A71.D3477A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that if I get to the point where ALL my gear is perfect and I = have nothing else to learn, then re-living history (whether it be = "buckskinning", AMM, F&I, Revolutionary, etc. etc.) would no longer be = any fun for me. I think we are all hear to learn more aren't we? YMOS "Dull Hawk" - ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF4A71.D3477A20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think that if I get = to the point=20 where ALL my gear is perfect and I have nothing else to learn, then = re-living=20 history (whether it be "buckskinning", AMM, F&I, Revolutionary, etc. = etc.)=20 would no longer be any fun for me. I think we are all hear to learn more = aren't=20 we?

YMOS

"Dull=20 Hawk"

- ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01BF4A71.D3477A20-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:01:15 -0800 From: "Wayne & Terri" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan Hi Jim, That is the way it is out here in the northwest. The only thing I brought into this outfit when I joined was a set of clothes that I made up while doing the three times on the ground, before I put my papers into join. I had an old 50 cal Hawkins that had been in my family for years. and I pick up the rest of my gear while I was doing my pilgrim year. I got my bosoloper done and I will get my Hiveranno done soon. You take care 3 strings - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 00:41:05 -0800 From: "John Hunt" Subject: MtMan-List: downing the AMM I hope your AMM friends that you have camped with and know and visited their homes treat you as the friend you are????? I have attended several Amm events by invitation, one of which was a national event. I have eat slept and drank with them. All whom I`ve met are very serious about their authenticity of their equipment. All of my gear was acceptable but some not correct enough. Not a single person said anything about my gear, "until I ask about how to improve what I had". When giving suggestions on how to get closer to being more period correct it was done very politely. From what you say of the AMM in finding fault, I`ve seen just the opposite. As for Dennis, he is the head of the Ohio party. You don`t get in that position if you haven`t got your shit together. There are very few people who could camp as light as Dennis does. You might do a one or two niter but not many more. All of the AMM members I`ve met were very courteous and friendly. In Oct. a friend and myself were guests in the AMM camp at missinewa. Evidently we were accepted by all in camp for we were told we would be welcome as a GUEST in any AMM camp. We were invited back by several members one of which was a past national officer. Lanny quoted word for word on the clothing requirement. I have been a subscriber the the AMM publication the Tomahawk and Longrifle for many years. During these years off and on there requirements have been published. The magazine is written by AMM members. It would educate some of you to read this publication. It will by no means help those of you who know it all. Only those want to learn will benefit. Membership is as stated by invitation. An invitation is not easy to get. They get to know you, observe you, and listen to you expel your knowledge. I have set at nite when visitors at a public event would stop and tell of their knowledge. After a few words it was easy to know if they new what they talked of. Some of these people were members of other "elete" groups. This is not ment as a personal attack on anyone just my own personal observations. I`m not an AMM member, just a friend of some members. NUFF SED John (BIG JOHN) Hunt Longhunter Mountainman southwest Ohio - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 02:16:29 EST From: DickSummers@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: downing the AMM Previously written: "AMM Membership is by invitation. Membership is not easy to get." I am not a member of AMM, nor will I ever be due to my circumstance. But I understand and respect their code. It is not easy to become a part of history in one's own time, harder to become a part of our nation's history. It is my understanding and perception, that becoming a respected member of AMM is the closest thing to stepping back in time and becoming part of the brotherhood of the men that made the first maps of the West due to their "ramblings." Sir. Get in the spirit or get out. I'd say from the fur flying it's fortunate we're all typing what's on our minds instead of standing face to face. Dick Summers - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 23:36:01 PST From: "Tim Nevins" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan I would like to talk to learn more about the AMM I am located in Central Califoria and was wondering if there was someone here locally I could talk more about it with Tim Nevins >From: R Lahti >Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: brain tan >Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:26:56 +0000 > > > >Mike Moore wrote: > > > > Capt. > > One of the bad things about this email is that you can't sit down >with the > > person you are talking to and spend a good time discussing an item. Like >this. > >Mike, > >Glad you thought my remarks worth repeating. But they are just my >thoughts and certainly not the last word. Probably the worst part of >talking this way is not being able to express feelings and not being >able to immediately rephrase for better understanding. So there is no >mistake about what I wrote, I was not justifying anything, I assure you. >I thought I was clarifying that Steve and I have been in private >conversation on this broad subject and I have been providing him with my >thoughts and opinions and my best advise as I felt would meet his >particular situation. > >I am not his sponsor but would welcome him as my guest. As such, I would >of course take responsibility for him. He has read what I have written >to him privately and in general to the list about how I view different >things and understands what I said and where I am coming from. > > My only question is: Why not have > > Steve wait till a warmer camp and start? It would give him more time to >have > > things ready and see what he needs to improve. > >He is welcome to wait until warmer weather. He is no stranger to the >cold though and only needs to know what it would take to deal with a NW >winter camp to participate in comfort and not feel out of place. I sense >from our talks that he does not wish to take shortcuts but would >appreciate getting a good start on "buckskinning" of any kind. He is >unique and other new people might be advised differently. > >I don't recall telling him or anyone that commercial tanned leather >cheapens or lowers the standards of our organization. What I have said >and what I have heard others say is that it can be an expensive and >unsatisfying alternative. I have no quarrel with commercially tanned >leather for authenticity's sake. I personally don't think the >commercially tanned "golden buckskin" bears any resemblance to any >commercial product available in the days of the Fur Trade. From what I >have read much leather of a commercial ilk was made and moved west. >Brain Tan is not the only leather ever worn by a frontiersman, just not >"Chrome Tanned Golden Buckskin". > >Another post posed the question of whether a candidate would be rejected >were he in such commercial leather. If it were my place to do so, I >certainly would not reject him on that basis but it is not my place to >say whether it is the policy of the AMM to make that type of negative >judgment. If asked I will say what I think is the better way to go >though. If someone wishes to wear such material after so many have >advised as to it's negative qualities then they may have at it. I >thought the bottom line in this organization was the man not what he was >wearing, in any case. I am even privy to a simple process that will turn >such leather into an almost satisfactory material with almost the same >properties, look and feel of brain tan. It will be better but still not >brain tan. But why bother unless there is no alternative? > >If someone wishes to change their outfit a few times before settling in >on what is comfortable I surely would not criticize. I certainly have >done that many times over myself. I wish someone had taken me by the ear >many years ago and talked to me like a Dutch Uncle and convinced me how >much money I was ultimately going to waste on chrome tan, split cow and >etc. before I finally did my first brain tan (which was not a pretty >sight but infinitely better than the substitutes that had gone before >and much more personally satisfying). > >Brain tan is the best even if done by a first timer. It is a skill we >all should have and endorse but it is not for everyone to be a tanner >nor is it the only material that will serve well. It is not even a >requirement that one be able to brain tan. It is only one of many skills >to choose from. I heartily endorse the use of period fabrics and utilize >them myself where they serve best. I am fortunate to have some brain tan >articles but there are alternatives and period correct alternatives at >that. > >As I said, no one is expected to come in full brain tan. Not in my camp >anyway. And a new person who wishes to see what it's all about is always >welcome dressed however. Any person who asks my advise or opinion gets >my best answer and all the alternatives. They deserve no less. > >There is nothing wrong with letting probationary members be pilgrims. >There is nothing wrong with trying to guide them in productive paths >either. I have seen new people go from talking about it for a year to >having a basic kit in two weeks so they would fit in, as they wished to >do on their first trip, realize much more enjoyment than they even >expected and leave the weekend so fired that their progress in the next >few months was outstanding. They were not pushed. No one is pushed to do >anything he is not up to nor should they be. Patience is a virtue and is >to be encouraged. Our Brigade practices the informal policy of camping >with a new person somewhere around three times before extending a formal >invitation to join. That can take patience. Are we still not in >agreement? > >Certainly a pilgrim/probationary has a year to get his "shit" together >if he wishes to take it. It ain't going to hurt a damned thing for him >to use commercial chrome tan while in his pilgrim period. If that is >what he's got then fine. If he doesn't even have that and yet thinks he >should be in full leathers and asks what is thought about such before he >goes out and buy's it, I submit there isn't a damned thing wrong with >advising him that he surely can find alternatives and is welcome to wait >until he can make or buy what would work the best. When any of us >finally get our brain tan we appreciate it all the more for the wait and >the functionality whether we are Bossloper or not. Hell if we all had >our "shit together when we were pilgrims.....hell we are all still >pilgrims or resting on our laurels and going no where. Even the >Hiveranno's. > >Unless I am not reading it right, the by-laws do not require anyone to >complete all requirements "after" being invited to join. There are >certain basic requirements that have to be met before being eligible for >membership, a certain number of things that must be met by the end of >the first year and a minimum number of the 20 that have to be met by the >end of the second year. > >Although this forum does not take the place of setting around a campfire >it is good to share thoughts as best can be done by thoughtful men of >good will. Such discussions refine and clarify and sometimes change how >we think and what we believe. I remain.... > >A "pilgrim" and >YMOS >Capt. Lahti' >"Aux Aliments de Pays" > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 07:15:19 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: MtMan-List: question Here is a question for some of you folks to think about if you care to. If some of the famous people of the mountain man era where alive today, The same folks many of us study and admire,and had to live in this time period, what would they spend there time doing? Would they participate in historical re-enacting? Would they research history? Would they be trappers or explore the wilderness up in AK? Would they own there own businesses or be unemployed? Would they be on the internet? What would they think about the discussions on this list? northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:35:14 -0800 (PST) From: Ronald Schrotter Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements YEEEHA! Now that's what I call a spirited discussion! There are a lot of people that do a lot of research about a lot of things. They become experts in the field, and know so much more than the average guy, and gain such high opinions of themselves that they just bore the shit out of everyone else who is in the area of expertise. They suck the joy out of the activity like a cold breeze will take thge light from a candle! I too have seen examples of the improper gear referred to, usually on pilgrims who are still learning. It is up to the experienced hands to point things like this out, but I hated to see dog soldiers inspecting everything brought into camp. The orange buckskins, filter tip smokes, bic lighters and such certainly should not be there, but it is up to those members with experience to show the proper way. That is how we ALL learned. Show me a man who makes no mistakes, and I'll show you a man who is too boring to be around. Dog, G.H.B., Wyoming __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 1999 08:46:50 -0800 From: Buck Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements On Mon, 20 December 1999, Ronald Schrotter wrote: > > YEEEHA! Now that's what I call a spirited discussion! > > There are a lot of people that do a lot of research > about a lot of things. They become experts in the > field, and know so much more than the average guy, and > gain such high opinions of themselves that they just > bore the shit out of everyone else who is in the area > of expertise. They suck the joy out of the activity > like a cold breeze will take thge light from a candle! > I too have seen examples of the improper gear > referred to, usually on pilgrims who are still > learning. It is up to the experienced hands to point > things like this out, but I hated to see dog soldiers > inspecting everything brought into camp. The orange > buckskins, filter tip smokes, bic lighters and such > certainly should not be there, but it is up to those > members with experience to show the proper way. > That is how we ALL learned. Show me a man who > makes no mistakes, and I'll show you a man who is too > boring to be around. Dog, G.H.B., Wyoming > > __________________________________________________ Brother, Well put, we all have been there, but for some reason some seem to forget - everyone has to crawl before they walk and then run - remember this. Over the last forty years I have had some of the best garage sales, moving out items that I thought where really great and later found to be the wrong time period, or just wrong - period. I can take comfort in knowing that I told the buyer that was for such and such a period, or not correct if wanting to use it for such and such - be honest, just don't pass it on to a new person. When we stop learning or helping others in this sport, I'll move on. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Personal :http://home.att.net/~buck.conner/personal.html Business :http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ AMM Party:http://klesinger.com/jbp/jbp.html _________________________________ Aux Ailments de Pays! Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 09:59:19 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: question I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. Both round and edible, but totally different. As well bring a prehistoric man here and try to make comparisons with today's life styles. But your point is well taken. - -----Original Message----- From: northwoods To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:29 AM Subject: MtMan-List: question >Here is a question for some of you folks to think about if you care to. >If some of the famous people of the mountain man era where alive today, The >same folks many of us study and admire,and had to live in this time period, >what would they spend there time doing? Would they participate in historical >re-enacting? Would they research history? Would they be trappers or explore >the wilderness up in AK? Would they own there own businesses or be >unemployed? Would they be on the internet? What would they think about the >discussions on this list? > >northwoods > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 99 12:20:54 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: Re: [Re: MtMan-List: AMM Requirements] > YEEEHA! Now that's what I call a spirited discussion! > = > There are a lot of people that do a lot of research > about a lot of things. They become experts in the > field, and know so much more than the average guy, and > gain such high opinions of themselves that they just > bore the shit out of everyone else who is in the area > of expertise. They suck the joy out of the activity > like a cold breeze will take thge light from a candle! > I too have seen examples of the improper gear > referred to, usually on pilgrims who are still > learning. It is up to the experienced hands to point > things like this out, but I hated to see dog soldiers > inspecting everything brought into camp. The orange > buckskins, filter tip smokes, bic lighters and such > certainly should not be there, but it is up to those > members with experience to show the proper way. > That is how we ALL learned. Show me a man who > makes no mistakes, and I'll show you a man who is too > boring to be around. Dog, G.H.B., Wyoming > = > __________________________________________________ Brother, Well put, we all have been there, but for some reason some seem to forget= - everyone has to crawl before they walk and then run - remember this. Over the last forty years I have had some of the best garage sales, movin= g out items that I thought where really great and later found to be the wrong t= ime period, or just wrong - period. I can take comfort in knowing that I told= the buyer that was for such and such a period, or not correct if wanting to u= se it for such and such - be honest, just don't pass it on to a new person. When we stop learning or helping others in this sport, I'll move on. Later, Buck Conner _________________________________ Well it's about time Buck, where the heck you been, Dennis Miles and = your truly thought you got lost. Agree with you a 100% , all the AMM members I've run across in the = last 25 plus years do pretty much as you say, they teach and try and = help where they can. Have a great Holiday folks. Concho. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #429 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.