From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #447 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, January 14 2000 Volume 01 : Number 447 In this issue: -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject. -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject. -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear.... -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: "Beaver Dick" Leigh -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear.... -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Flint vs Cap -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Re: MOOSE ? -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Hallo! -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Email use fees-urban legend -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Trapping in Alaska -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:04:32 -0700 From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia Lee Newbill wrote: >>The second... supposedly from Alexander Henry the Younger's journal, (early 1814?) regarding a rather unproductive punitive expedition to reclaim goods stolen by some inland Indians.... "At noon we embarked in four birch-rind canoes and two large wooden canoes...." Location was Fort George (Old Fort Astoria), near the mouth of the Columbia. Will attempt to find the actual entries in Henry's journal when I get a chance....<< Allow me . From Alexander Henry the Younger's Fort George journal for 10 Jan 1814: "At 12 O'Clock we embarked on board four canoes, two birch rind and two large wooden, 51 men and 11 Passengers, aslo Coalpo and his wife, their own canoe going in company with us, paddled by eight of his slaves." (Gough edition vol 2, p. 640) 11 Jan 1814:"At half past 6 O'clock one of our bark canoes run upon a rock and broke a large hole in her bottom..." (Gough 1:642) 12 Jan 1814:"At 12 OClock one of our bark canoes ran foul of a stump, and tore two bits of bark from her bottom, about the size of my hand, which instantly floated on the water behind the canoe. Still by bailing out the water she was kept afloat until one OClock when we put ashore to repair her..." (Gough 1:643) Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:40:26 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia Ho Lee, Thanks for doin all that research! The birchbark canoe is just to versatile of a water craft to be left east of the Stonies and damned in it ain't a great way to get around. Beside, ya don't have to feed em..... Ymos, Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:44:46 EST From: WSmith4100@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject. Howdy all, I was beginning to get worried, cause i havent received any postings for a few days. Did I miss something? Did something happen?....?????? was sure clad t see brother Lee's post today when i signed on. watch yer topknots ZZZZZZZZZZZZZz Wade "Sleeps loudly" Smith - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:15:05 -0800 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: not on this subject. WSmith4100@aol.com wrote: > > Howdy all, > I was beginning to get worried, cause i havent received any postings for > a few days. Did I miss something? Did something happen?....?????? was sure > clad t see brother Lee's post today when i signed on. > > watch yer topknots > ZZZZZZZZZZZZZz > Wade "Sleeps loudly" Smith Sleeps loudly, It has been pretty quiet. You didn't miss anything. I was very interested in what Friend Lee came up with. I'll have to incorporate that finding in my thinking now. Thanks Lee, and Angela. I remain... YMOS Capt. Lahti' P.S. Lee, got your gear together yet? Feb. 11/14 is coming fast. Have Vern help?! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:29:49 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear.... On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, R Lahti wrote: > P.S. Lee, got your gear together yet? Feb. 11/14 is coming fast. Have > Vern help?! Dearest Capt. At first, I was planning to recreate the atmosphere of Valley Forge, and walk in barefoot, leaving bloodstained snow behind as a marker to the way out, then, in just a short distance, you all would have to carry me...... then I remembered who was going, and figgered you would either shoot all laggards, or try and make extra rations of me.... so..... I am now working feverishly on the "blanket pacs", and am wondering how to do the seams so that they don't (1) all line up with the outer mocs, and (2) don't chafe me tender, delicate footsies? Your Most Obedient Servant... Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:40:52 -0800 (PST) From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes on the Columbia On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Angela Gottfred wrote: > Allow me . > >From Alexander Henry the Younger's Fort George journal for 10 Jan 1814: Thanks Angela! I must note that everytime I read about the birchbark canoes... I also read a lot about "pitching the seams", or bailing, or "the canoe broke upon the rock". High maintenance and delicate creatures they were, but with all that, they logged thousands of miles in them, if not without more than a few voyagers going to a watery grave. Your Most Obedient Servant... Lee Newbill of Viola, Idaho Clerk of the Hog Heaven Muzzleloaders http://www.geocities.com/~lnewbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:19:54 EST From: BoborJamie@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: "Beaver Dick" Leigh "Dull Hawk" and Allen, sorry it's takin' me so long to get back to you. I've been trying to uncover the mystery. It appears that Beaver Dick Leigh cannot be a direct ancestor, but I'm trying to find out about a possible brother to him in Montana. My mother is 1/8 Th. Blackfoot and Beaver Dick married Bannack and Shoshone Indians. It just doesn't jive. My Mother's father was Palmer Leigh -his father was Elmer Leigh- his father is "name unknown" and was a scout for the Cavelry. If he were Beaver Dick's brother then that would be the only possible link. Thanks again for your information. I did order a couple of the books the two of you mentioned. Jenny of The Tetons was great. I haven't been able to get This Side Of The Mountains yet, but I am still trying. I haven't given up. My sister and I may go to Wyoming to the museum and then to Montana if we have to, but we are determined to find the link. Thanks again so much. Jamie boborjamie@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:52:47 -0800 From: R Lahti Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Of wet snow and footwear.... Lee Newbill wrote: > Dearest Capt. Lee, Not that I mind blind servitude but that sure sounds like a kissup to me. Dearest Capt. Indeed! > > At first, I was planning to recreate the atmosphere of Valley Forge, Too early a period. and > walk in barefoot, leaving bloodstained snow behind as a marker to the way > out, then, in just a short distance, you all would have to carry > me...... then I remembered who was going, and figgered you would either > shoot all laggards, or try and make extra rations of me.... so..... Reality is now sinking in. > > I am now working feverishly on the "blanket pacs", and am wondering how to > do the seams so that they don't (1) all line up with the outer mocs, and > (2) don't chafe me tender, delicate footsies? Glad I asked you to ask. Baseball stitch or "herring bone" stitch. Use wool yarn for most seams. I just finished two pair using an old Sorel Pac liner for a pattern. Two uppers that fasten up the front of the foot and two sole pieces that have a simply running stitch all the way around to fasten uppers and soles. Make the uppers first if you have a pattern like I did. Lots simpler to get the right shape. If you do that just start at the front and do a "herring bone" stitch back and forth between each side as you move up the seam. The stitch pulls the two pieces together so they butt like the stitches on a baseball make the pieces of a baseball cover butt together. I think they use two threads on baseballs but you can use just one, going back and forth, it will look like a baseball stitch. Once the uppers are together to the front of the ankle or a bit lower, (don't want them so tight there you can't pull them on), start at the front of one side and using a simple up and down running stitch go from front to back and then back to front pushing the needle the opposite way through the first set of stitches. Start at the front and attach the other side the same way. Once done with that you can trim off any extra material up the back and use the herring bone stitch to close that seam. The only seams that might give you any problem are the ones at the bottom sides and they will have the selvage to the outside. Another important feature you should incorporate is a stitch line across each two sole pieces just behind the ball of your foot and just forward of your heal. You can do that with normal thread so the stitch itself is not thick. These two lines of stitch keep the sole pieces from sliding with your foot. If you do not have an existing pattern for the sides you simply sew the sides as "rectangles" onto the soles along the bottom seam first and then up the back and then close the front by going back and forth as you gather the two fronts together. Trim the excess off the fronts and backs, cut the seam open, trim off the seam allowance and put back together with the baseball/herringbone stitch so you do not have a raised seam pressing into the top of your foot. You can make mocs the same way but for winter snow shoeing I like a center seam with a vamp insert like the "Lakes" indians make/made in Canada, etc. Hard to explain how to make those. You need to see a picture. But the above directions will make serviceable mocs. Be sure to make the mocs after you have the liners made that will fit over wool socks. I think we are going to go to the Gresham BP gun show this Sat. and not go up to the David T Party winter camp for just one night. Talk at you later. I remain..... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:08:00 -0700 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion Bill, I have always wafered of this subject ( I shoot and hunt with a flinter most of the time and carry a flinter at camps), but did run across something I found interesting on this subject while doing rescearch on another project: from "Adventures in the Santa Fe Trade, 1844-47" by James Josiah Webb. pages 116-7 "He (Doan) had been presented with an old rifle by Messrs. Bent, St. Vrain and Company, and wished me to trade with him for a double-barrelled shotgun I had. The trade proposed was not very enticing, but inconsideration of his anxiety for the trade and the history of the rifle, I finally accomodated him by a even swap, and have never regretted it. Many years before, a trapper employed by the American Fur Company had taken it on a trapping expedition in the Blackfeet country . The Indians killed him and took his gun. Years after Messrs. Bent, St. Vrain and Company sent an expedition to that nation on a trapping and trading trip, and traded for the old rifle. At the fort it was restocked (full length) and altered from flint-lock to percussion, and kept at the fort as a target rifle for several years. In 1846 I had it newly grooved, half stocked, and added a new lock and breech pin, and carried it in all my travels in the trade except for my last trip. In 1849 a man from Boonville Missouri, on his way to California, came into the store where I was cleaning it up, and on looking at it, said " My father made that gun. There are his initials. It must be very old, for he has been dead for many years and did no work of that kind for many of the last years of his life. He made all his guns by hammering out the barrels by hand and boring them and creasing them in the same way". This is the history of my old and trusty friend, companion and bedfellow, who never went back on me- "old Blackfoot"- the name it was known by at the fort and which I always retained." Quite a history! And it also shows how some of the old guns were used and reused till there were nothing left. Bill Cunningham wrote: > Absolutely! I agree with you entirely here, Pat. In fact, my first flinter I > got in 1945 or 46 when my dad reached up over the windows in the front room > of the old farm and told me that when I'd got a deer with it he'd consider > getting me the 38-40 I kept harping about. By the time I learned to shoot it > and got a deer with it I didn't want the 38-40. Flintlock was my game! I > still shoot them (though traditional bows seem to be more my speed today) in > preference to all others.. I'm sure there were mountain men who felt the > same way. > Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: Pat Quilter > To: Mtnman Forum (E-mail) > Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:33 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion > > > Bill C and I are not really at odds in our impressions. I would agree > >that percussion was rapidly taking over in the 1830's, but there were some > >holdouts, therefore either would be "correct". > > I resisted reading Edward Warren until recently because it was "only a > >novel". However, Stewart makes it clear in his prologue that his intent was > >to document as much of the color and detail of his travelling observations > >as possible in an accessible form. The "storyline" is fairly ludicrous, but > >the incidents he reports have often been corroborated, and he gives them > >with more detail than you get in most of the journals. I read his remarks > >about the trapper's guns through the eyes of a high-class nobleman, > somewhat > >disdainful of the backwards ways of the scroungy Americans. He conveyed the > >impression that the flintlock users were the older more hide-bound > trappers, > >and his remark was offered as if he were answering some contention which > >occured around the campfires. In any case, he noted their guns, so I > offered > >this as an eyewitness account that there were still some flint users at the > >end of the period. > > I would wager that new or rebuilt rifles coming into the mountains from > >the1830's on were percussion, while those who were still using older > >worn-out guns for whatever reason (sentiment, trust, poverty) were usually > >flint. The dividing line may have been whether or not you travelled to a > >major center of gun building (St Louis). I agree with Bill that there was a > >thriving business converting flint to percussion -- the museums are full of > >such examples. Therefore, it appears most users were voting with their > >wallets as soon as percussion was a stable technology. The transition was > >clearly under way in the 1830's and presumably complete by the 1840's. > >However, 10-20 years is none too long to replace a major technology -- guns > >at this time were comparable to automobiles now, being a central piece of > >"high technology" which people depended on. Even in this age of rapid > >development, it takes over 20 years for a technology like fuel injection to > >replace carburettors. So just because something was invented in 1822 > doesn't > >mean everyone had it only ten years later. > >Respectfully submitted > >Patrick Quilter. > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:52:30 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion I don't waffle on the subject - I tend to get pedantic and boring about it. In my mind, according to the research I've done (and I once did considerable for a series of magazine articles), percussions hit the mountains about as quickly as they became available and the trappers could lay hands on them. Yes, many of them merely had their flints converted to cap, but that still made a percussion gun. I prefer the romance - and the convenience - of a flinter. To me they have more personality and I prefer priming the pan to loading up a cap loader and then squeezing that fragile little sucker onto the nipple. And for me a flinter cleans easier without later misfires due to something I forgot to prod out of the nipple. Bill - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Moore To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 3:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion >Bill, > I have always wafered of this subject ( I shoot and hunt with a flinter most >of the time and carry a flinter at camps), but did run across something I found >interesting on this subject while doing rescearch on another project: > from "Adventures in the Santa Fe Trade, 1844-47" by James Josiah Webb. pages >116-7 > "He (Doan) had been presented with an old rifle by Messrs. Bent, St. Vrain >and Company, and wished me to trade with him for a double-barrelled shotgun I >had. The trade proposed was not very enticing, but inconsideration of his >anxiety for the trade and the history of the rifle, I finally accomodated him by >a even swap, and have never regretted it. Many years before, a trapper employed >by the American Fur Company had taken it on a trapping expedition in the >Blackfeet country . The Indians killed him and took his gun. Years after Messrs. >Bent, St. Vrain and Company sent an expedition to that nation on a trapping and >trading trip, and traded for the old rifle. At the fort it was restocked (full >length) and altered from flint-lock to percussion, and kept at the fort as a >target rifle for several years. In 1846 I had it newly grooved, half stocked, >and added a new lock and breech pin, and carried it in all my travels in the >trade except for my last trip. In 1849 a man from Boonville Missouri, on his way >to California, came into the store where I was cleaning it up, and on looking at >it, said " My father made that gun. There are his initials. It must be very old, >for he has been dead for many years and did no work of that kind for many of the >last years of his life. He made all his guns by hammering out the barrels by >hand and boring them and creasing them in the same way". > This is the history of my old and trusty friend, companion and bedfellow, >who never went back on me- "old Blackfoot"- the name it was known by at the fort >and which I always retained." > Quite a history! And it also shows how some of the old guns were used >and reused till there were nothing left. > >Bill Cunningham wrote: > >> Absolutely! I agree with you entirely here, Pat. In fact, my first flinter I >> got in 1945 or 46 when my dad reached up over the windows in the front room >> of the old farm and told me that when I'd got a deer with it he'd consider >> getting me the 38-40 I kept harping about. By the time I learned to shoot it >> and got a deer with it I didn't want the 38-40. Flintlock was my game! I >> still shoot them (though traditional bows seem to be more my speed today) in >> preference to all others.. I'm sure there were mountain men who felt the >> same way. >> Bill >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pat Quilter >> To: Mtnman Forum (E-mail) >> Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:33 AM >> Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Flint vs Percussion >> >> > Bill C and I are not really at odds in our impressions. I would agree >> >that percussion was rapidly taking over in the 1830's, but there were some >> >holdouts, therefore either would be "correct". >> > I resisted reading Edward Warren until recently because it was "only a >> >novel". However, Stewart makes it clear in his prologue that his intent was >> >to document as much of the color and detail of his travelling observations >> >as possible in an accessible form. The "storyline" is fairly ludicrous, but >> >the incidents he reports have often been corroborated, and he gives them >> >with more detail than you get in most of the journals. I read his remarks >> >about the trapper's guns through the eyes of a high-class nobleman, >> somewhat >> >disdainful of the backwards ways of the scroungy Americans. He conveyed the >> >impression that the flintlock users were the older more hide-bound >> trappers, >> >and his remark was offered as if he were answering some contention which >> >occured around the campfires. In any case, he noted their guns, so I >> offered >> >this as an eyewitness account that there were still some flint users at the >> >end of the period. >> > I would wager that new or rebuilt rifles coming into the mountains from >> >the1830's on were percussion, while those who were still using older >> >worn-out guns for whatever reason (sentiment, trust, poverty) were usually >> >flint. The dividing line may have been whether or not you travelled to a >> >major center of gun building (St Louis). I agree with Bill that there was a >> >thriving business converting flint to percussion -- the museums are full of >> >such examples. Therefore, it appears most users were voting with their >> >wallets as soon as percussion was a stable technology. The transition was >> >clearly under way in the 1830's and presumably complete by the 1840's. >> >However, 10-20 years is none too long to replace a major technology -- guns >> >at this time were comparable to automobiles now, being a central piece of >> >"high technology" which people depended on. Even in this age of rapid >> >development, it takes over 20 years for a technology like fuel injection to >> >replace carburettors. So just because something was invented in 1822 >> doesn't >> >mean everyone had it only ten years later. >> >Respectfully submitted >> >Patrick Quilter. >> > >> >---------------------- >> >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >> >> ---------------------- >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:18:32 -0800 (PST) From: George Noe Subject: MtMan-List: Flint vs Cap My feelings are hurt. When I ask this same basic question a few months ago, I didn't get this much info. I guess thats why you have to keep up with the flow. grn ===== George R. Noe< gnoe39@yahoo.com > Watch your back trail, and keep your eyes on the skyline. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jan 00 20:27:49 EST From: Concho Smith Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MOOSE ? Hello Camp, Just got back from hunting in Colorado with friends, nice fat cow elk for= the effort. Talk about moose Mike, Buck was right we saw a half dozen year ol= d calves, some mom's and two bulls, right where he told you Mr. Moore to lo= ok. The weather was great, never that nice when Turtle and yours truely lived= there, perfect hunting weather and good sleeping. We're going to apply for moose in Colorado in April now that Buck showed = them to me, out of stater's may have trouble getting drawn from what a game wa= rden told us. I'll try anyway, man are those babies are big and they don't see= m to care whether you are around, not like elk that haul ass. Pennsylvania has started a good elk program, something else to draw for t= his year. Seems like everytime Dennis - I get to my e-mail I'm doing wash after returning from Colorado. Damn Buck makes it to easy for me and his wife a= lways loads me up with lots of goodies to eat while I'm driving back home, thin= k she figures if I got a sugar hi, I won't go to sleep while driving. Later, another load is done. Concho Hey Buck - THANKS Oh your personal page looks great, check it out guys he put a few items f= rom his collection on it, neat stuff and more to come. Get the trade guns and= the officers pistols on there pal - everyone would like to see them. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webm= ail.netscape.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:15:06 -0800 From: "Hill" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion I remember reading that most of the boys that went to the civil war used flintlocks at home due to the cost of percussion caps that were used as tools for rich people and professionals (but I can't remember where I saw it, may have been in Foote's books) - ---------- >From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint vs Percussion >Date: Wed, Jan 12, 2000, 9:10 AM > >It seems that opinions very! It does seem to be a hard ? to answer >from what I've read in books (thats why I asked!) But I think Im >inclined to agree w/ Mr. Cunningham! If I'm >not mistaken the Percussion cap was invented >in 1822, and it seems to me that ten years later (give or take) most >folks would have switched if possible!?! Any other opinions? > M.Wolfe > >http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin > >The road to progress is the path of fools!!! > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:32:43 -0500 From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) >INTERNET FEES-GOING TO CONGRESS >CNN has reported that within the next two weeks Congress is going to vote >on allowing telephone companies to CHARGE A TOLL FEE for Internet access. >Translation: Every time we send a long distance e-mail we will receive a >long distance charge. This will get costly. Please visit the following web >site and file a complaint to your Congressperson. We can't allow this to >pass! The following address will allow you to send an e-mail on this >subject DIRECTLY to your Congressperson. > >http://www.house.gov/writerep > >Put this in your address book. Pass this on to your friends. It is urgent! >I hope all of you will pass this on to all your friends and family. We >should ALL have an interest in this one. > >WAIT, THERE'S MORE! IN ADDITION, The last few months have revealed an >alarming trend in the government of the United States attempting to >quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the >Internet. Under proposed legislation the U.S. Postal Service will be >attempting to bilk email users out of "alternate postage fees." Bill 602P >will permit the Federal Govt. to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email >delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer >would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard >Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming >law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue due to the >proliferation of e-mail costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. >You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a >letter." Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of e-mail per >day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 >cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their >regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the >U.S. Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. > >The whole point of the Internet is democracy and non-interference. If the >federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a >surcharge to email, who knows where it will end. You are already paying an >exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency. It >currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from New York to >Buffalo. If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it >will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One >congressman, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar >per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the >government's proposed email charges. Note that most of the major >newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the >Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept >who's time has come" (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). Don't sit by and watch >your freedoms erode away! Send this e-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and >tell all your friends and relatives to write to their Congressman and say >"No!" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time, and >could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we don't want. PASS THIS >ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW WHO USES EMAIL REMEMBER THESE ARE TWO SEPARATE >ISSUES THAT EFFECT ALL OF US ONLINE. LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD NOW, NOT >AFTER. **************************************** Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:17:08 -0500 (EST) From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Birchbark Canoes Ho the list! I found a ref. to Birch Bark canoes in Sewell Newhouses (a manufacturer of beaver traps!) "The Trapers Guide;A manual of instructions"from the 19th cen....Newhouse praised the dugout canoe as "strong and serviceable though many trappers found it heavy to carry.....The birchbark canoe was, "preferred on streams where portage is necessary." YMOS, M. Wolfe http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin The road to progress is the path of fools!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) I already did this and got a nice letter(snail mail no less) from my congressman saying this was untrue and that he would fight any such legeslation in the future. Also inclued was a memo from the Postoffice titiled "E-mail rumor completely untrue!" so give your C-man a break this is a false rumor!!! M.W http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin The road to progress is the path of fools!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:30:08 +0100 From: "Pavel Grund" Subject: MtMan-List: Hallo! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5EB5.00FAEF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hallo ! I am new member these discussion group. I am from Czech republic- = central Europe. Our club TRAPPERS=B4 CORRAL is item of WESTERNERS = INTERNATIONAL, and is focused in life of trappers in USA, mainly = MOUNTAINMENS. If you be interested our activity, visit page = WWW.WESTERNERS.CZ specially TRAPPERS=B4 CORRAL. I'm looking forward to = next interesting discussions . PEGGY - ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5EB5.00FAEF40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hallo !
I am new member these = discussion=20 group. I am from Czech republic- central Europe. Our club TRAPPERS=B4 = CORRAL is=20 item of WESTERNERS INTERNATIONAL, and is focused in life of trappers in = USA,=20 mainly MOUNTAINMENS. If you be interested our activity, visit page = WWW.WESTERNERS.CZ specially = TRAPPERS=B4=20 CORRAL. I'm looking forward to next interesting discussions = .=20 PEGGY

- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BF5EB5.00FAEF40-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 08:30:00 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) As did I..... John Funk - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 14, 2000 8:25 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) > I already did this and got a nice letter(snail mail no less) from my > congressman saying this was untrue and that he would fight any such > legeslation in the future. Also inclued was a memo from the Postoffice > titiled "E-mail rumor completely untrue!" so give your C-man a break > this is a false rumor!!! > M.W > > http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin > > The road to progress is the path of fools!!! > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 09:00:23 -0500 From: "Henry B. Crawford" Subject: MtMan-List: Email use fees-urban legend Friends, It has been brought to my attention that the email fee story I forwarded to this list is a hoax. Please forgive me, but as you know these days Congress is sometimes prone to doing some pretty silly things. However, in the course of discovering that this one is merely an urban legend, I discovered a neat website at: http://urbanlegends.about.com/culture/urbanlegends/ Some of those old tales take me back to my camp counselor days. Enjoy. Cheers, HBC **************************************** Henry B. Crawford Box 43191 Curator of History Museum of Texas Tech University mxhbc@ttacs.ttu.edu Lubbock, TX 79409-3191 806/742-2442 FAX 742-1136 Website: http://www.ttu.edu/~museum ****** Living History . . . Because It's There ****** - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:36:19 -0500 (EST) From: MedicineWolfe@webtv.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Trapping in Alaska Gee, I almost forgot why I got on here in the frist place! Question, How early were American/ Eroupian trappers venturing up into Alaska? I thought I read about a Canadian Alexander Mackenzie going into the region in the late 18th. cen.? Again, Your Most Obidian Servant, Michael Wolfe http://community.webtv.net/MedicineWolfe/TheBuckskinnersCabin The road to progress is the path of fools!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:19:30 -0500 From: deforge1@wesnet.com (Dennis Miles) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Email use fees (off topic, but important) This is a debunked hoax. D - -- "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Period Knives & Iron Accoutrements http://www.wesnet.com/deforge1 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #447 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.