From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #510 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, March 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 510 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       MtMan-List: fur trade museam.. -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes -       Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: fur trade museam.. -       MtMan-List:Thank you for advice on new gun -       Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun -       Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun -       MtMan-List: saddles/mecate -       MtMan-List: Nationals 2001 -       MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles -       Re: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:00:16 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: tipi poles Ho the List, It's starting to warm up in the NW and with the sap rising in the lodgepole pine, it's a good time to go cut a few. I'll pass on a neat trick for those of you that have a lodge and are interested. Usually after the poles are cut they are barked in the woods, and if you're as slow as me, the rest of the day is spent bent over a draw knife....hard work. Now, I haul the poles home with the bark on, lay em out on the patio, fire up the water pressure cleaner, and just blow the bark off. The Indians would be proud! What use to take me about an hour to do a 27' pole, now only takes about the same to do all 17 poles, and the finished poles are beautiful. You still have to cut and file the limbs off, and sand the bumps. I seal my poles with a water seal or whatever to keep em pretty. The poles cut early in the spring seem to have a harder under wood, just below the bark, and the high pressure water doesn't cut it unless you get real close and hold there. Poles cut later in the summer are somewhat softer, so you have to be a bit more careful...just back off a bit. Leave your poles as long as you can get away with. The Crow used such long poles the tipi had the appearance of a huge hourglass. My poles are 27' for a 20' lodge and I carry them on top of a short bed truck. I've not been stopped by the Man yet, but local laws do apply. I'm working on a boat trailer with a rack to carry the poles and gear ... it should allow for some long poles, and I don't have to unload everything when I get home ... may even slip a canoe it there too! Ymos, Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:45:36 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles Nice ideal!!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:48:34 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: MtMan-List: fur trade museam.. I asked several weeks ago about how to get to the museam of fur trade and had a good response. Since then I lost all memory on my smokesingle (computer) can you please forward new information to me. Thank you, Donnie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:39:09 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles Hi Steve, I cut my lodge poles in the spring. Last year I showed some others how to use a piece of flint to cut the bark to where I could get a finger nail or a thumb nail under the bark and pull long strips of bark off. Takes about 10 minutes for a 27' lodge pole. Your hands get sticky with sap but it washes off.. Your right the Crows do like long lodge poles that extend 10' above. Are you pitching a Crow Lodge? I have gone back to smaller camps myself. I am getting to old to handle the big stuff. Now I am thinking about a 14'. Walt Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:47:28 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes Pie, 1=pie crust 6 cups fresh sliced apples (tart) 1/2 tsp cinnamon 1/2 cup brown sugar 1 table spoon butter 1/4 teaspoon salt 1 tablespoon lemmon juice Mix all ingridients in bowl and pour into pie crust. Cover top of pie with criss crossed pcs of dough. Sprinkle top with a mixture of sugar and cinamon. Bake in bake oven at 350 deg for 1 hr to 11/4 hr. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: WSmith4100@aol.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes >Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 12:15 AM > >Hello the list, > Its been awhile since I last chimed in so I figured I'd better come out >of hibernation. Just got done watching a video done by a gent named Mark >Baker. It was an instructional/informational video on the eastern long hunter >circa 1760-1780-ish. If you havent seen these tapes, they are worth your >time. he is a history professor and has done incredible amounts of >research. any ways enough of the commercials..... the reason I'm writing is >that my buddy mentioned that he wanted to make some "Apple Pie" but couldn't >find a recipe. I remember many moons ago I saw several recipes come across >the list. could you "chefs" run those recipes again? Thanks in advance for >your help. > >Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith >Meridian, ID > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:53:13 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes Hi, Ole, A good recipe to use the fine flour found in the 1836-1837 rendezvous supplies list. Walt Park City, Montana - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ole B. Jensen" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 11:47 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes > Pie, > 1=pie crust > 6 cups fresh sliced apples (tart) > 1/2 tsp cinnamon > 1/2 cup brown sugar > 1 table spoon butter > 1/4 teaspoon salt > 1 tablespoon lemmon juice > Mix all ingridients in bowl and pour into pie crust. > Cover top of pie with criss crossed pcs of dough. > Sprinkle top with a mixture of sugar and cinamon. > Bake in bake oven at 350 deg for 1 hr to 11/4 hr. > YMOS > Ole # 718 > > ---------- > >From: WSmith4100@aol.com > >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > >Subject: MtMan-List: apple pie recipes > >Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 12:15 AM > > > > >Hello the list, > > Its been awhile since I last chimed in so I figured I'd better come out > >of hibernation. Just got done watching a video done by a gent named Mark > >Baker. It was an instructional/informational video on the eastern long hunter > >circa 1760-1780-ish. If you havent seen these tapes, they are worth your > >time. he is a history professor and has done incredible amounts of > >research. any ways enough of the commercials..... the reason I'm writing is > >that my buddy mentioned that he wanted to make some "Apple Pie" but couldn't > >find a recipe. I remember many moons ago I saw several recipes come across > >the list. could you "chefs" run those recipes again? Thanks in advance for > >your help. > > > >Wade "Sleeps Loudly" Smith > >Meridian, ID > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:14:53 -0600 From: Don Neighbors Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles Walt, Where is Park City, Montana. Have a old frind that lives in Hamoltin. Have not heard from him in years. Donnie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:14:34 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles Hi Don, Hamilton is in the Bitterroot Valley in south western Montana. I have a daughter over there and some good friends who are reenactors as well. Park City is in south central Montana. Where Jim Bridger and the other large body of Mountain Men spent the winter of 1836 and 1835 in a 5 month long camp called the Rocky Mountain College. This is also the place where Capt. Clark and his men built dug out canoes to go down the Yellowstone. And where John Colter started out becoming the first of the American Mountain Men. Walt Park City, Montana - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Neighbors" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 1:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles > Walt, Where is Park City, Montana. Have a old frind that lives in > Hamoltin. Have not heard from him in years. Donnie > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 14:50:15 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles In a message dated 3/28/00 10:40:30 AM, Wfoster@cw2.com writes: << Are you pitching a Crow Lodge? I have gone back to smaller camps myself. I am getting to old to handle the big stuff. Now I am thinking about a 14'. >> Hallo Walt, No....I've got a Sioux lodge made by Nomadics.....the one on page 6 of the latest "Tipi Living" magazine. I can still set up the 20 footer by myself in about an hour... or two hours if I have help.... My side kick has a 16' that's pretty darn small but goes up easy...don't think I'd go smaller than that. That's one way to get closer to the wimmins though.... Ymos, Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:00:21 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles > Hallo Walt, > > No....I've got a Sioux lodge made by Nomadics.....the one on page 6 of the > latest "Tipi Living" magazine. I can still set up the 20 footer by myself in > about an hour... or two hours if I have help.... My side kick has a 16' > that's pretty darn small but goes up easy...don't think I'd go smaller than > that. That's one way to get closer to the wimmins though.... > Ymos, > Steve I have been using 16s. Remember you shrink as you get older. I pitched a lodge for one of the local museums a few months ago and it was all I could do to handle the 27' lodge poles. As a hunting camp 16' are hard to beat. Nomadics. I have a 20 year old Nomadics that I still use along with my new one. Walt - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:10:47 -0700 From: Baird.Rick@orbital-lsg.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: tipi poles Bill Cunningham taught me a neat trick years back. Take your tipi pole, green or dried harder than flint, no matter; sink it into your local ditch with water flowing past. Leave it there overnight. Next day you can peel it slicker 'n a gut, just like peelin' a carrot in the kitchen. It really works. Rick - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 16:08:41 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fur trade museam.. Its in Chadron, NE, and there are plenty of signs once you get there... Was there 2 years ago... WELL worth the trip... Ad Miller > I asked several weeks ago about how to get to the museam of fur trade > and had a good response. Since then I lost all memory on my smokesingle > (computer) can you please forward new information to me. Thank you, > Donnie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:51:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Susan Gilbert" Subject: MtMan-List:Thank you for advice on new gun Thank you all who responded with help on Brian's new gun. Your collective knowledge and experience is a valuable gift to the rest of us. We are doing our own research, of course, but...so many books, so little time. It is so great to be able to pick the brains of you kind folks when we get stuck and don't know where to start. gratefully, Sue Gilbert 6 Beaver Camp - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:34:26 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3037116867_55476_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable John, You forgot one important thing about burrying your ax or tomahawk, Don't lick your fingers! Ole # 718 - ---------- From: John Kramer To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 10:05 AM The most critical item in making a new ramrod is to work with splits of woo= d not sawn wood. By maintaining full length grain through the entire length maximum strength is maintained. If full length grain is used not nearly so many ramrods will need to be made than if you use pre-made dowel rod from sawn stock. Sharp shards and flakes from knapping musket flints are excellent for scraping and shaping the rough wood. Sandstone can be used for --- guess what? Though kerosene is the modern substitute for coal oil which was available i= n the east in small measure, the below is an old method. See my posting a couple of three Christmases back on the proper uses of linseed oil to avoid the problems of modern processing. Ferrules can be well mounted with sealing wax along with the cross pinning.= Very similar to what used to be called spud cement which can be used similarly. Ramrods, shovel handles, axe handles, walking sticks, and war clubs all wil= l benefit if you bury them in a large pile of horse manure for 6 months. Add= s considerable flex to the finished work. Be certain the wood is well seasoned and ready for final sanding and finishing before you bury it. The= n finish it. John... At 08:11 AM 3/28/00 -0800, Bill wrote: I have taken a piece of PVC, put a plug in one end and shoved anywhere from 1 to a couple dozen ramrod blanks (straight grain dowels) in there, then filled it with kerosene, put a plug on the top, and let them soak for as long as three months, then removed them and let them dry. They still are no= t bullet proof, but somewhat improved. It depends on whether you have the tim= e and desire. You can purchase new ends (they don't cost that much) and make up several ramrods at one time. That way, when one breaks (and they will) you have a spare at hand. - -----Original Message----- From: Roger Lahti To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:22 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun >Sue, > >I and many experienced ml shooters will council you to remove the adjustable >sight and replace it with a fixed open sight. Once it is adjusted to where >the gun shoots with it's best load, it need never be messed with again. It >will not move either and thus will not change the point of impact at an >awkward moment. > >The ferrules on the ram rod should have been "pinned" with brass or coppe= r >wire but were probably just glued on with something like epoxy. Very careful >heating of the metal over a candle will usually loosen them regardless of >how they were glued. If they have been pinned then you will have to punch >the old pin out to pull the ferrule off. > >Once replaced on a new rod, a small hole should be drilled through ferrule >and rod and a pin of that size pushed through and peened into place along >with the new glue which can be epoxy or any water proof glue. > >It is a good idea to pick very straight grain wood, preferably hickory as = a >ram rod material. It can be soaked in kerosene for a month and then sealed >with linseed oil. This will make the rod stronger and more flexible and less >likely to break again. Straight grain is the most important though. Some >folks like metal rods or fiber glass rods, even synthetic rods but if your >husband is concerned with authenticity, wood is the only choice. Good luck >and feel free to ask questions. I remain.... > >YMOS >Capt. Lahti John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0 Kramer's Best Antique Improver >>>It makes wood wonderful<<< =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<< > mail to: - --MS_Mac_OE_3037116867_55476_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun John,
You forgot one important thing about burrying your ax or tomahawk,
Don't lick your fingers!
Ole # 718
- ----------
From: John Kramer <kramer@kramerize.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun
Date: Tue, Mar 28, 2000, 10:05 AM


The most critical item in making a new ramrod is to work with s= plits of wood not sawn wood.  By maintaining full length grain through = the entire length maximum strength is maintained.  If full length grain= is used not nearly so many ramrods will need to be made than if you use pre= - -made dowel rod from sawn stock.

Sharp shards and flakes from knapping musket flints are excellent for scrap= ing and shaping the rough wood.  Sandstone can be used for --- guess wh= at?

Though kerosene is the modern substitute for coal oil which was available i= n the east in small measure, the below is an old method.  See my postin= g a couple of three Christmases back on the proper uses of linseed oil to av= oid the problems of modern processing.  

Ferrules can be well mounted with sealing wax along with the cross pinning.=  Very similar to what used to be called spud cement which can be used = similarly.

Ramrods, shovel handles, axe handles, walking sticks, and war clubs all wil= l benefit if you bury them in a large pile of horse manure for 6 months. &nb= sp;Adds considerable flex to the finished work.  Be certain the wood is= well seasoned and ready for final sanding and finishing before you bury it.=  Then finish it.

John...

At 08:11 AM 3/28/00 -0800, Bill wrote:
I have taken a piece of PVC, put a plug in one end and shoved a= nywhere from
1 to a couple dozen ramrod blanks (straight grain dowels) in there, then filled it with kerosene, put a plug on the top, and let them soak for as long as three months, then removed them and let them dry. They still are no= t
bullet proof, but somewhat improved. It depends on whether you have the tim= e
and desire. You can purchase new ends (they don't cost that much) and make<= BR> up several ramrods at one time. That way, when one breaks (and they will) you have a spare at hand.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Roger Lahti <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Monday, March 27, 2000 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun


>Sue,
>
>I and many experienced ml shooters will council you to remove the
adjustable
>sight and replace it with a fixed open sight. Once it is adjusted to wh= ere
>the gun shoots with it's best load, it need never be messed with again.= It
>will not move either and thus will not change the point of impact at an=
>awkward moment.
>
>The ferrules on the ram rod should have been "pinned" with &n= bsp;brass or copper
>wire but were probably just glued on with something like epoxy. Very careful
>heating of the metal over a candle  will usually loosen them regar= dless of
>how they were glued. If they have been pinned then you will have to pun= ch
>the old pin out to pull the ferrule off.
>
>Once replaced on a new rod, a small hole should be drilled through ferr= ule
>and rod and a pin of that size pushed through and peened into place alo= ng
>with the new glue which can be epoxy or any water proof glue.
>
>It is a good idea to pick very straight grain wood, preferably hickory = as a
>ram rod material. It can be soaked in kerosene for a month and then sea= led
>with linseed oil. This will make the rod stronger and more flexible and=
less
>likely to break again. Straight grain is the most important though. Som= e
>folks like metal rods or fiber glass rods, even synthetic rods but if y= our
>husband is concerned with authenticity, wood is the only choice. Good l= uck
>and feel free to ask questions. I remain....
>
>YMOS
>Capt. Lahti



John T. Kramer, maker of:=A0

Kramer's Best Antique Improver
>>>It makes wood wonderful<<<
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>As good as old!<<<

<http://www.kramerize.com/ <http://www.kramerize.com/> >

mail to: <kramer@kramerize.com> <= BR>
- --MS_Mac_OE_3037116867_55476_MIME_Part-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 21:58:21 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Need advice on new gun > Ramrods, shovel handles, axe handles, walking sticks, and war clubs all will > benefit if you bury them in a large pile of horse manure for 6 months. Adds > considerable flex to the finished work. Be certain the wood is well > seasoned and ready for final sanding and finishing before you bury it. Then > finish it. John, Have a friend who restores old clocks. One of the things he does to match old wood when necessary, it to smear the replacement wood with dog manure and then bury it in the garden for several weeks. It ages the new wood to match the old. I suspect that the highly acidic dog manure breaks down the wood fibers. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:32:15 -0700 From: "Wynn & Gretchen Ormond" Subject: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF98A0.E2632180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John C. Funk, Jr. wrote: How far back does the "macate" rein date back? The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the bosal = is claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the = Middle Ages, but can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of = California. Ms Victor quoted Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse = hair rein of sorts:=20 "For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the animal's = mouth." And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made horsehair = ropes themselves: ....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning the = firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's = back..... What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does not = slip in your grip and doesn't hold water as bad as some when wet. But as = you might guess I am partial to the hackmore. WY - ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF98A0.E2632180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:

How far back does the "macate" rein date back?

The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the = bosal is=20 claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the Middle = Ages, but=20 can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of California. Ms Victor = quoted=20 Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse hair rein of sorts:

"For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the animal's = mouth."

And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made horsehair = ropes=20 themselves:

....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning = the=20 firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's=20 back.....

What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does not = slip in=20 your grip and doesn’t hold water as bad as some when wet. But as = you might guess=20 I am partial to the hackmore.

WY

 

- ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BF98A0.E2632180-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 07:36:19 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: MtMan-List: Nationals 2001 Hey Crazy, I don't have your e-mail address in my file, at Bridger I talked to Allen about a possible spot for next years camp. Please contact me off list and I will tell you about it. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:47:12 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles In a message dated 3/29/00 6:28:51 AM, bobbiel@dim.com writes: << Your post about the poles was quite timely for me, and I'm frustrated that for some reason, I can't post to the list. I get the messages fine, I just can't reply. >> Hallo Bobbie, Hmmmm...I've had that problem in the past too. What you need to do is "unsubscribe" from the list and then "re-subscribe" to the list. Don't know what happens in cyber, but that should fix the problem. Also send an email directly to Dean and let him know what's been going on. <<<>>> What you need to look for in a pole, besides being straight, is that the diameter where you tie the poles together, (maybe 17' up for a 18' tipi) be around 1 3/4" to 2".... and you don't want the bases much more than 2 1/2" to 3". These tall "skinny" poles are usually found in dense stands. Blow down poles work fine, have the advantage that you can use them right away, (green trees need to be dried out for a month or more) but hard work getting the bark off( don't think you could blow the bark off with the pressure cleaner). The wood may already have started to turn gray with age, so maybe not as pretty as the new poles. I know what you mean about cutting new trees, (I live in the NW and have seen what the loggers can do) but offer that lodgepole pine grow in such dense groves that "thinning" them out gives the others "breathing" room... If you don't have it already, get a copy of "The Indian Tipi" by Laubin before you by your first lodge. It is THE book on tipi's.... Hope this helps and if you have any more questions, let me know. Ymos, Steve - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:18:35 -0600 From: "northwoods" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles - -----Original Message----- From: SWcushing@aol.com To: bobbiel@dim.com Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: March 29, 2000 11:49 AM Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles > I know what you mean about cutting >new trees, (I live in the NW and have seen what the loggers can do) ) but offer >that lodgepole pine grow in such dense groves that "thinning" them out gives >the others "breathing" room... Hey, I resemble that remark! I would offer that all trees grow in a manner that they thin themselves out over time. When you cut some tepee poles out of a dense stand and give the remaining trees "breathing" room you are managing the stand of trees wether you realize it or not. I am not saying this in defense of those who would damage the environment through indiscriminate harvest practices. "I was alive in the forest I was cut by the cruel axe In life I was silent In death I sweetly sing" (from an Elizabethen lute face) northwoods - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 13:12:08 -0800 From: bcunningham@gwe.net (Bill Cunningham) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles In that regard, even if you pick up dead lodgepoles from off the ground, you are "managing" to an extent - depriving the soil of the humus the dead trees eventually turn into. For me, I sometimes have picked up dead poles, sometimes cut them. I do not do this on a large scale, just enough for my tipi and fencing needs. I don't feel guilty about this, I grew up in a state where wood pulp was and is a major industry and trees replace themselves within forty years. Here in the west that is not so true. Quakies, which are being cut and used for wafer board, does a good job of fairly fast regrowth, but the conifers take forever. Trees left standing beyond their maturity, though, tend to rot in the center and become useless for lumber, while shading out new growth. Nature's way, I guess, but then, so is mankind. - -----Original Message----- From: northwoods To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, March 29, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles > >-----Original Message----- >From: SWcushing@aol.com >To: bobbiel@dim.com >Cc: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Date: March 29, 2000 11:49 AM >Subject: MtMan-List: Re: tipi poles > > > >> I know what you mean about cutting >>new trees, (I live in the NW and have seen what the loggers can do) ) but >offer >>that lodgepole pine grow in such dense groves that "thinning" them out >gives >>the others "breathing" room... > >Hey, I resemble that remark! I would offer that all trees grow in a manner >that they thin themselves out over time. When you cut some tepee poles out >of a dense stand and give the remaining trees "breathing" room you are >managing the stand of trees wether you realize it or not. I am not saying >this in defense of those who would damage the environment through >indiscriminate harvest practices. > >"I was alive in the forest > I was cut by the cruel axe > In life I was silent > In death I sweetly sing" > >(from an Elizabethen lute face) > >northwoods > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 17:22:39 -0800 From: "John C. Funk, Jr." Subject: Re: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF99A3.61EE7640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WY, Thanks for your response but your answer, though illuminating, doesn't = answer my question....."How far back can the "Macate" rein (system) be = traced? =20 I know what it can be used for. I know how it is used but I'm looking = for the 'history' of it and it's origin. I do know that horse (tail and = mane) and buffalo hair were originally woven to create the 21" (+/-) = rein. It was (is) used with a snaffle bit (typically) and = incorporates rein and lead when laced through "slobber straps" on the = snaffle. I have seen paintings in "Man Made Mobile" which suggest the = Native American fabricated a similar item. These appeared to be tied = around the horses lower jaw resulting in a "rein" and "lead" which = appeared to be secured by the rider. I guess what I'm asking is.....is = the rein (system) period correct.....in anyone's estimation? I've found it VERY successful and solves a multitude of situations = encountered in the field. Basically....I like it! John Funk Rick Baird......I know you have 'years' on a critter...give me your = input.......please... jf ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wynn & Gretchen Ormond=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 9:32 AM Subject: MtMan-List: saddles/mecate John C. Funk, Jr. wrote: How far back does the "macate" rein date back? The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the = bosal is claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the = Middle Ages, but can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of = California. Ms Victor quoted Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse = hair rein of sorts:=20 "For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the animal's = mouth." And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made horsehair = ropes themselves: ....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning the = firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's = back..... What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does not = slip in your grip and doesn't hold water as bad as some when wet. But as = you might guess I am partial to the hackmore. WY - ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF99A3.61EE7640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
WY,
Thanks for your response but your answer, though illuminating, = doesn't=20 answer my question....."How far back can the "Macate" rein (system) be=20 traced? 
I know what it can be used for.  I know how it is used but I'm = looking=20 for the 'history' of it and it's origin.  I do know that horse = (tail and=20 mane) and buffalo hair were originally woven to create the 21" (+/-) = rein. =20 It was (is) used with a snaffle bit (typically) and incorporates rein = and lead=20 when laced through "slobber straps" on the snaffle.  I have seen = paintings=20 in "Man Made Mobile" which suggest the Native American fabricated a = similar=20 item.  These appeared to be tied around the horses lower jaw = resulting in a=20 "rein" and "lead" which appeared to be secured by the rider.  I = guess what=20 I'm asking is.....is the rein (system) period correct.....in anyone's=20 estimation?
I've found it VERY successful and solves a multitude of situations=20 encountered in the field.  Basically....I like it!
John Funk
Rick Baird......I know you have 'years' on a critter...give me your = input.......please...  jf
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Wynn &=20 Gretchen Ormond
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com =
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 = 9:32=20 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: = saddles/mecate

John C. Funk, Jr. wrote:

How far back does the "macate" rein date back?

The mecate can be used with both bosal and snaffle. The use of the = bosal is=20 claimed to be descended from the Moors who invaded Spain in the Middle = Ages,=20 but can definitely be traced to the grand horseman of California. Ms = Victor=20 quoted Meek as claiming the Nez Perce used a horse hair rein of sorts: =

"For bridles they used horse-hair cords, attached around the = animal's=20 mouth."

And they also claim the camp keepers of the fur trade made = horsehair ropes=20 themselves:

....finds a piece of work imperfectly done, whether it be cleaning = the=20 firearms, making a hair rope, or a skin lodge, or washing a horse's=20 back.....

What they used the ropes for I can only speculate. Horsehair does = not slip=20 in your grip and doesn’t hold water as bad as some when wet. But = as you might=20 guess I am partial to the hackmore.

WY

 

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