From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #583 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, July 3 2000 Volume 01 : Number 583 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Flint doubles -       MtMan-List: Payson, Utah -       MtMan-List: Patriot! -       Re: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #582 -       Re: MtMan-List:Grey Owl -       Re: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       Re: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! -       Re: MtMan-List: When did it end? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Jul 2000 07:15:40 -0700 From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint doubles On Fri, 30 June 2000, Concho Smith wrote: > John, > Not only does Buck have a nice original flint side by side made by TWIGG in 16ga., he has a nice repro of a West Richards flint side by side in 20ga. I........ > Concho. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Concho, You talk to much, expected to see lots of stuff on list, everyone laying low for the long weekend ! Coming in from Utah last night traffic wasn't that bad going east or west. Let's keep our fingers crossed that everyone has a safe weekend. Later Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLARK & SONS MERCANTILE, INC. "One who trades" "Uno quien negocia" "Unquil Commerce" English Spanish French *Period grains *mill items *cookware *camp equipage* & much, much more. ~~~~~~ http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ ~~~~~~ Aux Aliments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 08:27:56 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: MtMan-List: Payson, Utah Buck, Any luck finding property?. If you move to Payson, you will be just 30 miles south from my house and less than that from Todd. Rick Williams is in Provo, Todd in Riverton, I am in South Jordan. Lots of nice country and a good Party to hang with. Ole - ---------- >From: Buck Conner >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flint doubles >Date: Sat, Jul 1, 2000, 8:15 AM > >On Fri, 30 June 2000, Concho Smith wrote: >> John, >> Not only does Buck have a nice original flint side by side made by TWIGG >in 16ga., he has a nice repro of a West Richards flint side by side in >20ga. I........ >> Concho. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Concho, >You talk to much, expected to see lots of stuff on list, everyone laying >low for the long weekend ! Coming in from Utah last night traffic wasn't >that bad going east or west. Let's keep our fingers crossed that everyone >has a safe weekend. > >Later >Buck Conner >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > CLARK & SONS MERCANTILE, INC. >"One who trades" "Uno quien negocia" "Unquil Commerce" > English Spanish French > > *Period grains *mill items *cookware *camp equipage* > & much, much more. >~~~~~~ http://www.teleport.com/~walking/clark/ ~~~~~~ > Aux Aliments de Pays! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 21:53:40 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: MtMan-List: Patriot! Gentelmen & Ladies, Saw Patriot today, good flick. Better than braveheart, we will be up to our ear's in tricornered hats shortly. There were some problems but not that bad all in all. Was a good pro second amendment statement. I liked it. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 23:00:31 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patriot! - --------------9B17E91E2EA430B0443FA396 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ole, Will see it tomorrow, thanks for the info. If you or anyone else is looking for a good movie rental, you can check out "Grey Owl". Not much press on it. Good story about a guide/ trapper. Tell the ladies that Pierce Brosnan is it. And my friend Denise says he is getting better with age. (take it for what it is worth guys.) mike. my web pages "Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > Gentelmen & Ladies, > Saw Patriot today, good flick. Better than braveheart, we will be up to our > ear's in tricornered hats shortly. There were some problems but not that bad > all in all. Was a good pro second amendment statement. I liked it. > YMOS > Ole # 718 > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - --------------9B17E91E2EA430B0443FA396 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ole,
    Will see it tomorrow, thanks for the info. If you or anyone else  is looking
for a good movie rental, you can check out "Grey Owl". Not much press on it.
Good story about a guide/ trapper. Tell the ladies that Pierce Brosnan is it. And
my friend Denise says he is getting better with age. (take it for what it is worth guys.)

                                                mike.
my web pages

"Ole B. Jensen" wrote:

Gentelmen & Ladies,
Saw Patriot today, good flick. Better than braveheart, we will be up to our
ear's in tricornered hats shortly. There were some problems but not that bad
all in all. Was a good pro second amendment statement. I liked it.
YMOS
Ole # 718

----------------------
hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html

- --------------9B17E91E2EA430B0443FA396-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 23:05:51 -0500 From: Matt Porter Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #582 >My question is, If the Frenchman couldnt make it of >the Tx gulf coastcause of the Indians and gators and >such, how the blazes did they make it all the way up >the big muddy to Canada?? The small band of La Salle loyalists stopped at Arkansas Post first. The guys at the fort were so happy to see them that they fire a solute with their cannons. Hope this helps a little. YMHS Matt Porter ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 02:22:01 EDT From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Grey Owl Grey Owl (1888-1939) was the name used by George Stansfeld Belaney in writing and lecturing about wildlife. He actually lived the life of a Canadian Indian and wrote about the animals he saw. His writing, which was mostly about beavers, stirred interest in conservation. Tales of an Empty Cabin (1936) is one of his best books. His true identity was not generally known until after his death. He claimed he was born in Mexico, but he was probably born in Hastings, England. (World Book Encyclopedia) Wind1838 P.S. I saw the film flying on Delta last summer. Was surprised to see the individual credited with the reclamation of the beaver population in North America appearing as Pierce Brosnan. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:19:03 -0700 From: "P. Amschler" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patriot! I must fully agree! The only problem was with the wifalunit, she is 7 weeks with child and said it was a bit TOO intense for her. (She loves the good old shoot'm up lot's of action and blood normally). She was either crying or running off:) But after all was said and over she liked it also. - --- amschlers@mailcity.com Send FREE Greetings for Father's Day--or any day! Click here: http://www.whowhere.lycos.com/redirects/fathers_day.rdct - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 06:33:43 PDT From: "Robert Thomson" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Patriot! It was an excellent film. It was mostly well done, technically speaking, though I would love to have one of those super-accurate muskets or pisotls!! It has a great moral to it, and demonstrates what it was kind of Hell all of the patriots went through. Robert "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union" Charles Larpenteur, 1838 - ---- Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:07:44 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union Where are you located? Walt - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 17:12:28 PDT From: "Robert Thomson" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! Fort Union Trading Post National Historic Site 25 miles southwest of Williston, ND (1 mile west of the confluence of the Yellowstone and Missouri). Robert - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Walt Foster" Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com To: Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 09:07:44 -0600 On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union Where are you located? Walt - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:15:37 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana Hi Robert, I am about 240 miles above Ft. Union on the Yellowstone. Are you employed by the Ft.? Walt Fort Union Trading Post National Historic Site 25 miles southwest of Williston, ND (1 mile west of the confluence of the Yellowstone and Missouri). Robert - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 06:29:49 PDT From: "Robert Thomson" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! Yes, I am a Park Ranger with the NPS. Been working here at Union since 1995, and I worked down to Fort Laramie before that. Robert "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union" Charles Larpenteur, 1838 - ---- Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Walt Foster" Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com To: Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Patriot! Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2000 22:15:37 -0600 On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana Hi Robert, I am about 240 miles above Ft. Union on the Yellowstone. Are you employed by the Ft.? Walt ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 09:50:48 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: When did it end? John, You have asked some tough questions, which most like to stay away from if possible. And since I've not heard much of a response, if any on your questions, I'll give it my best shot. Many people do consider the end of the offical rendezvous system as the end of the peroid of the mountain man. It gives a easy end and beginning to a peroid which could streach from 1807- 1848 in the U.S.. But you are right, many of the men who we consider as important in this time frame lived well before and after the 1820-40 dates. Most changed occupations, moved back east or headed some where else thatn prime beaver country. But even when you use the !840 date as the 'end of the peroid, you can make a case that it ended about two years eariler, the missioniares showed up, signifing a drastic change, and the Hudson Bay Co.'s Francis Ermatinger said only 125 men were at that one with about 2000 beaver and otter traded. No one know if the 1839 meeting would take place. The next two rendezvous did take place, but were nothing like the earlier ones. I tend to go for the 1821-1848 time frame in Colorado where I live. We had Fowler go up the Arkansas in '21 and by '48 the country was crawling with settlers and miners going further west. The fur trade posts and trading houses shifted business to as you said buffalo tongues and robes and more trading mostly with the indians/ emigrants. There were actually much going on before Fowler's date but it was exploring, trading with indians and not true trapping. (guess it depends on if the whole time frame is built around the trappers only, or includes the western adventurers, private individuals and gov. explorers.) What is the true time frame of our mountain men? Probably their heydays- 1826-36. A small time frame. But alot was happening in the back ground which effected the trappers and their traders. Many good people came west after this date which we consider as part of it. I don't consider anything with the Indian wars as "mountain men", even though some were scouts. The questions you asked are tough ones. And this is only my opinion. When some one pops up in the fur trade and goes on to do other things (guides for a gov. exploring or for any one on the western trails) I do give him his proper place. But may not use some of the tools and equipment which he did in later life. Sorry for the long reply. mike. Hawkengun@aol.com wrote: > Here are some questions that I hope folks feel inspired to respond to.... > > When did the Rocky Mountain fur trade-era actually end? > Did it end, as Hafen argues (Mountain Men and the Fur Trade, v.1), that the > era essentially ended at the close of the 1840 roundezvous? Although it > seems clear that buffalo robes surpassed beaver plews in economic importance > sometime during the 1840s-50s, trade in beaver and other fine furs never > stopped (continued down to today, or course.) Carson, Williams and others > were leading trapping expeditions into the mountains well after the last > roundezvous. So when should we set the historic "cut-off date" for the era? > > Or more specifically, were the trappers that remained in the west still to be > considered "mountain men," or is that a title that should be reserved for the > pre-1840 days? What about men that came west after 1840, hooked-up with > older mountaineers, made their way as trappers and Indian fighters, later > served as scouts for the Army-- can they be accurately called "mountain men"? > > John R. Sweet > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #583 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.