From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #608 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, August 15 2000 Volume 01 : Number 608 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: Fort Union Fur Trade Symposium 2000 -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader -       Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader -       MtMan-List: Muzzleloader -       Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader -       MtMan-List: Re:oilclothe thots -       Re: MtMan-List: Re:oilclothe thots -       Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge -       MtMan-List: upcoming local event -       Re: MtMan-List: Murdered & Pillaged Americans, 1810 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:54:30 GMT From: "Robert Thomson" Subject: MtMan-List: Fort Union Fur Trade Symposium 2000 Greetings to the list, It has come to our attention at Fort Union that some of you that are interested in attending the Symposium in September may have some slight misunderstandings about the Living History event that will accompany the symposium. We at Fort Union Trading Post National Historic Site put together a list of living history people and invited them to attend and take part in the event. Those folks receive free admission to the symposium for their parts in the symposium. If you weren't invited it means you will have to register and pay the $100.00 registration fee to attend the symposium. We don't want to discourage anyone from attending, or even participating, but at this late date we cannot give anymore invitations to take part in the living history event. If you have any questions about the symposium, contact me at my personal e-mail address (not via the list) or call me at Fort Union at (701) 572-9083. Historically yours, Robert W. Thomson PS -- To any and all that know Bruce "Spoon" Druliner, he says to say hello! "Thanks to kind Providence, here I am again at good old Fort Union" Charles Larpenteur, 1838 - ---- Robert Thomson AMF Co Fort Union ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Aug 2000 18:55:53 -0700 From: Concho Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge On Sun, 13 August 2000, LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > > I'd suggest you contact Panther Primitives and ask them. Also, they sell > fire retardant treated canvas. Barney Subject: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting Jim, In the 1700's and 1800's linen was made from flax, which is the linen we are familiar with today, but linen was also made from hemp. Hemp in those days was grown in many parts of the U.S. Russia sheeting, (twilled hemp linen or sail cloth), was generally made from hemp during the time period and was readily available and cheap, unlike today when the sutlers want an arm and a leg for it. Russia sheeting is not the same as canvas, which was also made from hemp, because it was a twilled material. Twilled material is woven much tighter than canvas. Twilled material shows a diagonal raised pattern in the material. This twilled effect in material is actually like double thickness. Randy Hedden AMM #1393 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 13 Aug 2000 19:12:15 -0700 From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge On Sun, 13 August 2000, Concho wrote: > Capt L. has mentioned waterproofing and fire retardent canvas - it's dangers and good qualities before, and with his background I would believe him over a sales promotion saying it's safe. What's that old saying, "never heard a huskers cry rotten fish". > > Roger give us a lesson on some of these products that are shown in a number of the trade magazines. > > > Take care, > Daniel "Concho" Smith > Historical Advisor > ______________________________________ > Historical Research & Development > ______________________________________ > "Research & field trials in the manner of > our forefathers, before production." > ______________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I had a Panther Primitives fire retardant canvas that was about 5 years old, been cared for in the usual manner, in good condition. Remember Concho how that baby went up in smoke on the Upper Missouri one night from a spark from a camp fire, fast enough that it burned a hole 2' in dia. before we could get it out. Talked to Sam about this at Panther, he never did figure out why that happened, old age or faulty material ? Becareful with any of the yard goods around your fire, treated or not. Hey Concho see you got that job by the information after your name, good deal - you'll be a great addition to those people. Take care, Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ NRA ~ Lenape Society ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Aux Aliments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:23:42 -0700 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge The problem is that he used a degreaser. The chemical Canvac or any repellent will have a problem adhering to the surface. Your might want to soak the whole tent in the water repellent. Spraying on the surface may not stick. Also make sure it is a hot day, as these are paraffin based and need to be hot to soak in. Panther and all the other tipi manufacturers use an already treated canvas and do not apply surface chemicals. Another is to talk to boat/canvas people and see what they might use after washing their sails. And talk to those who use canvas for sails and not nylon or synthetic materials. Linda Holley LivingInThePast@aol.com wrote: > I'd suggest you contact Panther Primitives and ask them. Also, they sell > fire retardant treated canvas. Barney HREF="http://www.catalogcity.com/ViewCover.cfm?VID=150674">Panther Primitives< > /A> > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:23:41 EDT From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge In a message dated 8/13/00 7:13:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, buck.conner@uswestmail.net writes: > I had a Panther Primitives fire retardant canvas that was about 5 years old, > been cared for in the usual manner, in good condition. Remember Concho how > that baby went up in smoke on the Upper Missouri one night from a spark from > a camp fire, Thanks Buck. Hmmmm. That was definitely enlightening. I'm thinkin' I been placing too much reliance on the 'fire-retardant' tag. Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:08:18 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Concho" To: Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 6:55 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge > Roger give us a lesson on some of these products that are shown in a number of the trade magazines. Concho, I presume you speak to me? FWIW, if your buying tentage or yardage from a reputable dealer like Panther Primitives or RK, etc. and they list an item as fire retardant, what they are saying is that the material will not support Combustion. That does not mean it won't burn or that you can't put a hole in it with a hot spark, just that if you put flame to it and it starts to burn (which it will) and you pull the flame away, the material will self extinguish. In any case I would feel safe relying on what they advertise as the properties of the material they use. If a company is offering a "fire proof" material, it must surely be asbestos or metal because most of the synthetic and natural materials will burn and thus can not be claimed to be "fire proof". I would be very skeptical of any such claims. I am not aware of any material that we can afford that will not burn. Kevlar and "Nomex" (a brand name) exibit "fire proof" properties but they are not suitable for what we do by price alone, not to mention with respect to authenticity. There is no home treatment that we can apply that will render a combustible fabric totally fire retardent or fire proof although natural material treated with borax will be some what harder to ignite. For my part as a fire fighter, I take precautions to be as save as I can when using flame or heat of any kind. My lodge is around 25 years old and untreated and all my various leanto's and bed rolls are untreated though some have been impregnated with various oils and wax's in an attempt to make them more servicable in wet weather. I have never had a problem with any of them relavent to fire other than perhaps burning a small hole in my linseed/bees wax treated muslin bed roll cover or holes in my Thompsons treated "first" leanto. They did not burst into flame but rather started a glowing hole that required only the swift application of a smothering action on my part to extinguish. Keep it away from the camp fire. Watch for sparks from sparking wood. Watch where you hang a candle. Don't make the lodge fire too big. Be aware, be safe. End of lesson. Hope that was what you were looking for. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:18:01 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > I had a Panther Primitives fire retardant canvas that was about 5 years old, been cared for in the usual manner, in good condition. Remember Concho how that baby went up in smoke on the Upper Missouri one night from a spark from a camp fire, fast enough that it burned a hole 2' in dia. before we could get it out. > > Talked to Sam about this at Panther, he never did figure out why that happened, old age or faulty material ? Becareful with any of the yard goods around your fire, treated or not. Friends, Personal experience speeks lowder than my opinion. Take care and be skeptical of claims. Capt. L - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 2000 04:58:23 -0700 From: Concho Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge Thank you, you came through again old friend. > > Roger give us a lesson on some of these products that are shown in a > number of the trade magazines. > > Concho, > > I presume you speak to me? FWIW, if your buying tentage or yardage from > a reputable dealer like Panther Primitives or RK, etc. and they list an item > as fire retardant, what they are saying is that the material will not > support > Combustion. That does not mean it won't burn or that you can't put a hole in > it with a hot spark, just that if you put flame to it and it starts to burn > (which it will) and you pull the flame away, the material will self > extinguish. In any case I would feel safe relying on what they advertise as > the properties of the material they use. > > If a company is offering a "fire proof" material, it must surely be asbestos > or metal because most of the synthetic and natural materials will burn and > thus can not be claimed to be "fire proof". I would be very skeptical of any > such claims. I am not aware of any material that we can afford that will > not burn. Kevlar and "Nomex" (a brand name) exibit "fire proof" properties > but they are not suitable for what we do by price alone, not to mention with > respect to authenticity. > > There is no home treatment that we can apply that will render a combustible > fabric totally fire retardent or fire proof although natural material > treated with borax will be some what harder to ignite. > > For my part as a fire fighter, I take precautions to be as save as I can > when using flame or heat of any kind. My lodge is around 25 years old and > untreated and all my various leanto's and bed rolls are untreated though > some have been impregnated with various oils and wax's in an attempt to make > them more servicable in wet weather. I have never had a problem with any of > them relavent to fire other than perhaps burning a small hole in my > linseed/bees wax treated muslin bed roll cover or holes in my Thompsons > treated "first" leanto. They did not burst into flame but rather started a > glowing hole that required only the swift application of a smothering action > on my part to extinguish. > > Keep it away from the camp fire. Watch for sparks from sparking wood. Watch > where you hang a candle. Don't make the lodge fire too big. Be aware, be > safe. End of lesson. Hope that was what you were looking for. I > remain.... > > YMOS > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Do it right or forget, Daniel "Concho" Smith Historical Advisor ______________________________________ Historical Research & Development ______________________________________ "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers, before production." ______________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 2000 05:03:24 -0700 From: Concho Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge > Hey Concho see you got that job by the information after your name, good deal - you'll be a great addition to those people. > > > > Take care, > Buck Conner > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, not bragging but they fell at my feet when I excepted there offer and agreed to think of moving back to the mid-west. Hee Hee Will miss PA and the old fort sites we would travel to when you where here years ago. Do it right or forget, Daniel "Concho" Smith Historical Advisor ______________________________________ Historical Research & Development ______________________________________ "Research & field trials in the manner of our forefathers, before production." ______________________________________ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 07:52:04 -0500 From: Glenn Darilek Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge A while back, I did a burn test of untreated canvas, canvas treated with the wood preservative (like Thompsons), and canvas treated with paraffin disolved in naptha. The naptha was allowed to vaporize, leaving only the paiffin. I hanged strips of the materials and lit the bottom with a match and measured the time it took for the strip to be completely involved in fire. The results were about the same for the three samples. They ALL burned like blazes! So far I have been pretty lucky. I have only burned down one canvas tent. ;-) Glenn Darilek Iron Burner >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge >Does anyone else on the list have any thoughts , views, opinions, ect. >on this subject ? Lightning - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 07:50:00 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Concho" To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 4:58 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge > Thank you, you came through again old friend. Concho, My pleasure. Capt. L - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1980 08:05:19 -0600 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader >>OK, here's the quote and it comes from the July/August issue of Muzzle Loader Magazine, page 38, middle paragraph of the article "Alexander Mackenzie Searches for the Northwest Passage, Part 1" by Tony Hunter. "Ninety pound pieces of pemmican and others of jerked venison and parched corn provided an adequate food supply. The cargoes were covered with cloths soaked in corn oil and animal fat to make them waterproof" (Vail 35-36)<< Well, this is shaping up to be a classic example of why you have to go to the primary source. I've read Mackenzie's journals, and I'm pretty sure all he does is mention "oilcloth"--he never describes how his oilcloths were treated. Presumably that was done back in England, since I've never seen a description of oilcloth-making in the other Canadian fur trade journals I've read. Indeed, I'd be very interested in any mention of corn oil in my period (1774-1821), since I'm also interested in food. In short, I think Vail goofed; perhaps he was using a late 19th-century formula for waterproofing in a late 18th-century context. As for Tony Hunter, I was a bit surprised and disappointed by his bibiliography. Sure, biographies of Mackenzie can shed more light on the man, but why didn't he read Mackenzie's own journals? It's not like they're inaccessible; in fact, the entire text of the original printing is available online at www.canadiana.org, and there are countless paper editions, including the 1970 one that sits on my shelf. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 11:59:15 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angela Gottfred" To: Sent: Thursday, August 14, 1980 7:05 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader > Well, this is shaping up to be a classic example of why you have to go to > the primary source. I've read Mackenzie's journals, and I'm pretty sure all > he does is mention "oilcloth"--he never describes how his oilcloths were > treated. Angela, Thanks to you (almost a primary source in and of yourself ) we are getting closer to the truth. It would be interesting to learn just what was used. Presumably that was done back in England, since I've never seen a > description of oilcloth-making in the other Canadian fur trade journals > I've read. Indeed, I'd be very interested in any mention of corn oil in my > period (1774-1821), since I'm also interested in food. In short, I think > Vail goofed; perhaps he was using a late 19th-century formula for > waterproofing in a late 18th-century context. So your saying that Vail goofed in what he aledges Alexander actually did or reported? Wonder where he got the idea? On the face of it, the use of corn oil or something similar including animal fat seems to be a very likely candidate for the actual process since it is called "oil cloth" and from personal experience, linseed oil is not the best of materials to use since it dries so hard unless thinned or mixed with another material like Bee's Wax. With the talk of russia sheeting, I'm wondering if it was treated with anything or was just a tight woven material as discribed? > > As for Tony Hunter, I was a bit surprised and disappointed by his > bibiliography. Sure, biographies of Mackenzie can shed more light on the > man, but why didn't he read Mackenzie's own journals? It's not like they're > inaccessible; in fact, the entire text of the original printing is > available online at www.canadiana.org, and there are countless paper > editions, including the 1970 one that sits on my shelf. Would a freference to the corn oil have been in those journals? Hunter or Vail may leave clues to what part of the journals they were referencing and that may narrow down locating such a passage mentioning the subject of our curiousity. Perhaps I'll find time to look over the online original printiing as you have offered. Thanks again for keeping us on the narrow path. I remain.... YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:58:15 -0600 From: "Terry R. Koenig" Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C005F7.B17575E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Angela: Good piece of research. . . going to the primary source, and getting the = story straight - a practice we all should get into a habit of doing more = often. As to the manufacture of oil cloth, the Spring "88" issue of the "Museum = of the Fur Trade Quarterly" states that the making of oil cloth dates = back to about 1740. It notes that a linen piece of cloth of the proper = dimension was placed in a moveable vertical frame, so the material could = be stretched. It was first coated with a sizing solution on both sides, = rubbed smooth with a pumice block while still wet. After dry, two coats = of paint applied to each side. The first coat as thick as molasses using = linseed oil and paint pigments with very little turpentine. This was = smoothed out with a long, narrow tapering trowel. When this was dry a = more fluid second coat was applied with a brush. For the primary sources on the above information, the Quarterly = references: "The Textile Manufactures of Great Britain," by George Dodd, London, = 1845. "The American Dictionary of Commerce," by L. De Coianga, Boston, 1880. Terry R. Koenig - ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C005F7.B17575E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Angela:
 
Good piece of research. . . going to the primary = source, and=20 getting the story straight - a practice we all should get into = a habit=20 of doing more often.
 
As to the manufacture of oil cloth, the Spring "88" = issue of=20 the "Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly" states that the making of = oil cloth=20 dates back to about 1740. It notes that a linen piece of cloth of the = proper=20 dimension was placed in a moveable vertical frame, so the material could = be=20 stretched. It was first coated with a sizing solution on both sides, = rubbed=20 smooth with a pumice block while still wet. After dry, two coats of = paint=20 applied to each side. The first coat as thick as molasses using linseed = oil and=20 paint pigments with very little turpentine. This was smoothed out with a = long,=20 narrow tapering trowel. When this was dry a more fluid second coat was = applied=20 with a brush.
For the primary sources on the above information, = the=20 Quarterly references:
"The Textile Manufactures of Great Britain," by = George Dodd,=20 London, 1845.
"The American Dictionary of Commerce," by L. De = Coianga,=20 Boston, 1880.
 
Terry R. Koenig
- ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01C005F7.B17575E0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 13:13:54 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C005F1.7F11BCE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for sharing that Terry. Capt. L ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Terry R. Koenig=20 To: MtMan List=20 Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 12:58 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Muzzleloader Angela: Good piece of research. . . going to the primary source, and getting = the story straight - a practice we all should get into a habit of doing = more often. As to the manufacture of oil cloth, the Spring "88" issue of the = "Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly" states that the making of oil cloth = dates back to about 1740. It notes that a linen piece of cloth of the = proper dimension was placed in a moveable vertical frame, so the = material could be stretched. It was first coated with a sizing solution = on both sides, rubbed smooth with a pumice block while still wet. After = dry, two coats of paint applied to each side. The first coat as thick as = molasses using linseed oil and paint pigments with very little = turpentine. This was smoothed out with a long, narrow tapering trowel. = When this was dry a more fluid second coat was applied with a brush. For the primary sources on the above information, the Quarterly = references: "The Textile Manufactures of Great Britain," by George Dodd, London, = 1845. "The American Dictionary of Commerce," by L. De Coianga, Boston, 1880. Terry R. Koenig - ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C005F1.7F11BCE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for sharing that Terry. Capt. L
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Terry=20 R. Koenig
To: MtMan List
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 = 12:58=20 PM
Subject: MtMan-List: = Muzzleloader

Angela:
 
Good piece of research. . . going to the primary = source, and=20 getting the story straight - a practice we all should get = into a=20 habit of doing more often.
 
As to the manufacture of oil cloth, the Spring = "88" issue of=20 the "Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly" states that the making of = oil=20 cloth dates back to about 1740. It notes that a linen piece of cloth = of the=20 proper dimension was placed in a moveable vertical frame, so the = material=20 could be stretched. It was first coated with a sizing solution on both = sides,=20 rubbed smooth with a pumice block while still wet. After dry, two = coats of=20 paint applied to each side. The first coat as thick as molasses using = linseed=20 oil and paint pigments with very little turpentine. This was smoothed = out with=20 a long, narrow tapering trowel. When this was dry a more fluid second = coat was=20 applied with a brush.
For the primary sources on the above information, = the=20 Quarterly references:
"The Textile Manufactures of Great Britain," by = George Dodd,=20 London, 1845.
"The American Dictionary of Commerce," by L. De = Coianga,=20 Boston, 1880.
 
Terry R. = Koenig
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C9_01C005F1.7F11BCE0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 14:51:34 -0700 From: "Michael W. Finnie" Subject: MtMan-List: Re:oilclothe thots >On the face of it, the use of corn oil or something similar including animal >fat seems to be a very likely candidate for the actual process since it is >called "oil cloth" and from personal experience, linseed oil is not the best >of materials to use since it dries so hard unless thinned or mixed with >another material like Bee's Wax. wasn't sperm[whale] oil used for purt' near everything back then? respectfully, mike - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:53:30 -0700 From: "Butch Wright" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re:oilclothe thots "...large numbers of oiled sheets and tarpaulins were prepared at York for use throughout the country for divers purposes such as ground sheets and as protective coverings for fine furs. For such articles, large quantities of sail cloth were imported annually from Britain. It was soaked in oil distilled in huge vats from considerable number of artic whale caught each year in Hudson Bay by the company's schooner master and his able crew with the little fleet of ships maintained at the factory." WEST of the MOUNTAINS, "James Sinclair and the Hudson's Bay Company", by D.Geneva Lent, published by Univ. of Washington Press, 1963, page 38 & 39 This documentation may be for a few years later then most of you want. It is about 1818 at York Factory which was located on Hudson's Bay. The observation was made by James Sinclair. He was born about 1806 at the Hudson Bay's trading post of Oxford House, located between Lake Winnipeg and Hudson Bay. His father was the Chief Trader, William Sinclair, who did much to help the original Red River settlers. James became a free trader and being 1/2 Cree ( his mother was Cree), he had the loyality of the Metis`. He served as a British agent and lead two parties of settlers to the Oregon Territory. James died in 1856 ironically saving a party of Americans during an Indian attack. I guess my only real point is it is quite possible there was more then one way, one formula and one mindset on how to waterproof material. I doubt the Longhunters used whale oil. I was just responding to the question below regarding whales. Butch - -----Original Message----- From: Michael W. Finnie To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Date: Monday, August 14, 2000 2:55 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Re:oilclothe thots > >>On the face of it, the use of corn oil or something similar including animal >>fat seems to be a very likely candidate for the actual process since it is >>called "oil cloth" and from personal experience, linseed oil is not the best >>of materials to use since it dries so hard unless thinned or mixed with >>another material like Bee's Wax. > >wasn't sperm[whale] oil used for purt' near everything back then? > >respectfully, > >mike > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 14 Aug 2000 18:15:05 -0700 From: buck.conner@uswestmail.net Subject: Re: MtMan-List: waterproofing lodge probably from laughting at your resume. On Mon, 14 August 2000, Concho wrote: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Yes, not bragging but they fell at my feet when I excepted there offer and agreed to think of moving back to the mid-west. Hee Hee Will miss PA and the old fort sites we would travel to when you where here years ago. > > > Do it right or forget, > Daniel "Concho" Smith > Historical Advisor > ______________________________________ > Historical Research & Development > ______________________________________ > "Research & field trials in the manner of > our forefathers, before production." > ______________________________________ > Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html Take care, Buck Conner ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ AMM ~ NRA ~ Lenape Society ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ Aux Aliments de Pays! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Signup for your free USWEST.mail Email account http://www.uswestmail.net - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:35:51 -0400 (EDT) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (JON MARINETTI) Subject: MtMan-List: upcoming local event The Muzzleloaders of Western Wayne County Conservation Association will hold its 21st annual Labor Day Weekend Rendezvous from Friday thru Monday September 1-4 at the club in Plymouth Township. There will be a Friday fish fry and activities focusing on the fur-trade era of 1760-1840. For more information on the event and fees, contact Leonard "Firestarter" Darnell at 734-397-0243. [Michigan Out-Of-Doors, Sep.2000, p.106] - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 02:01:46 EDT From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Murdered & Pillaged Americans, 1810 A new book by John C. Jackson titled THE PIIKANI BLACKFEET: A CULTURE UNDER SEIGE (Mountain Press, Missoula, 2000) looks at the fur trade era from the perspective of the Blackfeet and the Canadian fur companies, and it is an interesting change in outlook. On pg. 68 he refers to the massacre by Blackfeet in "early 1810" of an American trapping brigade led by a trapper from Detroit named Charles Courtin. They were killed "where the Nemissoolatakoo and Bitterroot Rivers come together." It is unclear what primary sources Jackson is refering to for this incident, but possibly Coues, ed., NEW LIGHT ON THE HISTORY OF THE GREATER NORTHWEST; THE MANUSCRIPT JOURNALS OF ALEXANDER HENRY...AND OF DAVID THOMPSON...1799-1813 (1897. Reprint, Minn., Ross & Haines, 1965.) John R. Sweet - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #608 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.