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Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #619
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hist_text-digest      Tuesday, September 5 2000      Volume 01 : Number 619



In this issue:

-       MtMan-List: metis
-       Re: MtMan-List: John Coffee Hays in the furtrade?
-       MtMan-List: leggings
-       RE: MtMan-List: metis
-       Re: MtMan-List: leggings
-       RE: MtMan-List: leggings
-       Re: MtMan-List: Leggings
-       MtMan-List: leggin's
-       RE: MtMan-List: leggin's
-       MtMan-List: Aho
-       MtMan-List:  OT - Bicycle Corps
-       RE: MtMan-List: Aho
-       MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       RE: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       Re: MtMan-List: leggin's
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       MtMan-List: Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:10:23 -0500
-       Re: MtMan-List: John Coffee Hays in the furtrade?
-       Re: MtMan-List: Aho
-       Re: MtMan-List:  OT - Bicycle Corps
-       RE: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller: Works Viewable on the Intern et
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone
-       Re: MtMan-List: Aho
-       Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:33:32 MDT
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: metis

bon jour: i put out a news letter for the hiverant metis. always looking
for new mat. if anyone has storys or mat. on the cart meits of the west
hunting grounds and during the fur trade a buf days . that i could use
i would be much thankful. we also resuch the cart birgads of the nor.
plains so we do have materal on the history of metis in the fur trade.
  any ifo is good.             ter/ponyrider
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Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 13:50:10 -0700
From: "larry pendleton" <yrrw@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: John Coffee Hays in the furtrade?

Scott,
   anti-Texan propoganda

>> I don't understand it either.  Those Colorado folks are more than happy
to rid us of our hard earned green backs, all the while cussin us to the
high heaven.

  a hundred and fifty years ago,
claimed the land now known as Colorado!

>>Yep it was part of Texas.  Could be again !  Shouldn't be too much
trouble.  <GG>
Pendleton


- -----Original Message-----
From: scott mcmahon <mountedranger@hotmail.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Monday, September 04, 2000 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: John Coffee Hays in the furtrade?


Mike,
Well I never! ...It's good to see somebody up in your part of the country
has a sense of humor about this subject! I was up at Bent's Fort in July and
got to listen to all the anti-Texan propoganda, what's that all about? I had
people completely mad at me because Texas, a hundred and fifty years ago,
claimed the land now known as Colorado! If your scanner won't work I
understand... how ever you want to send it is FINE with me...I really
appreciate it! Contact me off-list and I'll send you my address if you'd
rather mail it. Thanks again and look forward to seeing some of you guys
down this way sometime.
Most Sincerely,
Scott McMahon
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 14:08:01 MDT
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: leggings

linda;;i agree on leggings not being worn by mt of west. all though there is 
ref. of a man /low down on his luck only being clad in legging
and breech cloth at fort union . the long frings of working leather clothing 
had a perpose. it help shed the water,acted as a camoflage of the two leged 
man form. and if a person need a piece of string to  tye
something up just wack of a piece of fring or two. if fact some of
old timers looked at the shape of a persons frings to see how long had
he had been on a hunt or trap run. i have done just this, it is realy
handy but hard one skins.
                           keep your eyes on the sky line

                           watch your back trail
                                              ter/ponyrider
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Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 14:35:52 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: metis

Ponyrider, check this out:  http://www.cot.msubillings.edu/MAS/index.htm


Look in the calendar of events


Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana 

 


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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:41:20 -0700
From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leggings

I would agree with you on some of the statements, but not in the Native American
part of the use.  THese were special clothing not to be cut at for "string" or
dirtied up.
It is hell to clean brian tan with all that decoration on it.  Just PLAIN
leggings are another thing.  Some of the old Hidasta leggings were exceptionally
long and went beyond the feet.  But your everyday leggings, well yes, they can
be used for what ever.  Many of the Rendezvous guys are dressing up like full
fledge tribal warriors.  Maybe one or so, but not so many and not with all the
beadwork.  These gentlemen are mostly doing the 1870's and beyond to modern
gunslinger?  These types of outfits are impractical for the every day fur
trapper.


Linda

Terrance Luff wrote:

> linda;;i agree on leggings not being worn by mt of west. all though there is
> ref. of a man /low down on his luck only being clad in legging
> and breech cloth at fort union . the long frings of working leather clothing
> had a perpose. it help shed the water,acted as a camoflage of the two leged
> man form. and if a person need a piece of string to  tye
> something up just wack of a piece of fring or two. if fact some of
> old timers looked at the shape of a persons frings to see how long had
> he had been on a hunt or trap run. i have done just this, it is realy
> handy but hard one skins.
>                            keep your eyes on the sky line
>
>                            watch your back trail
>                                               ter/ponyrider
> _________________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 15:44:01 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: leggings

With regard to leggings not being worn by mountain men in the north...I
think the term I have seen that they used for this item is Saver.

Mountain men either brought with them what they wore.  Made it themselves on
location.  Or traded for it.


Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana




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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 19:58:08 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Leggings

- --------------28C683C6BAD4BCC738E125CA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Wynn,
    Alot of the men I see at AMM gatherings who use leggings use them
over
knee breeches. Is this what you are talking about? Or were they used in
the
indian style with a loin cloth? While regular leggings can be used for
trapping
(it is nice not to have your leather pants wet all the time in cold
weather), I
don't figure that many used indian style ones. There are a few mentions
of
"white" men in Indian clothing, (Francis Parkman tells of one, and of
couse
Jim Beckwourth- but he is black, the first one mentioned I think was
french)
but most are either misunderstandings of written appearances or layered
leggings
like what I asked first. You can use leather leggings over cloth pants
and be
approiate when portarying a early traveler in the west. Is this a
project you are
thinking about? I use wool leggings over my clothes in winter. Botas
(the south
western style leggings) were used in the fur trade. I figure that alot
of the workers
on the adobe forts which were brought up here to build them used them.
You also
see references to them in journals for people living in Santa Fe and
Toas. I would
be careful using them in most portaryals- but even volume one of "The
Mountain
Man Sketch Book" shows botas on page 35.
                                                    mike.

Wynn & Gretchen Ormond wrote:

> I noticed on my first AMM outing that several brothers used the same
> basic leggings pattern (Roughly, 3/4 up the leg on the inside and
> sloping up the outside with a built in strap to the belt). In contrast
> there are the simple leggings used by the woods runners in the last
> Museum of the Fur Trade Article ( Just above the knee and cut straight
> accross) or in Bof Buckskinnings article on Southwest style (Just
> above the knee, seam in front with pucker toe mocs).
>
> Are any of these styles better documented or what is the logic for
> choosing one over the other?
>
> Humbly
>
> WY

- --------------28C683C6BAD4BCC738E125CA
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Wynn,
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Alot of the men I see at AMM gatherings who use
leggings use them over
<br>knee breeches. Is this what you are talking about? Or were they used
in the
<br>indian style with a loin cloth? While regular leggings can be used
for trapping
<br>(it is nice not to have your leather pants wet all the time in cold
weather), I
<br>don't figure that many used indian style ones. There are a few mentions
of
<br>"white" men in Indian clothing, (Francis Parkman tells of one, and
of couse
<br>Jim Beckwourth- but he is black, the first one mentioned I think was
french)
<br>but most are either misunderstandings of written appearances or layered
leggings
<br>like what I asked first. You can use leather leggings over cloth pants
and be
<br>approiate when portarying a early traveler in the west. Is this a project
you are
<br>thinking about? I use wool leggings over my clothes in winter. Botas
(the south
<br>western style leggings) were used in the fur trade. I figure that alot
of the workers
<br>on the adobe forts which were brought up here to build them used them.
You also
<br>see references to them in journals for people living in Santa Fe and
Toas. I would
<br>be careful using them in most portaryals- but even volume one of "The
Mountain
<br>Man Sketch Book" shows botas on page 35.
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
mike.
<p>Wynn &amp; Gretchen Ormond wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
I noticed on my first AMM outing
that several brothers used the same basic leggings pattern (Roughly, 3/4
up the leg on the inside and sloping up the outside with a built in strap
to the belt). In contrast there are the simple leggings used by the woods
runners in the last Museum of the Fur Trade Article ( Just above the knee
and cut straight accross) or in Bof Buckskinnings article on Southwest
style (Just above the knee, seam in front with pucker toe mocs).
<p>Are any of these styles better documented or what is the logic for choosing
one over the other?
<p>Humbly
<p>WY</blockquote>

</body>
</html>

- --------------28C683C6BAD4BCC738E125CA--


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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 20:14:53 MDT
From: "Terrance Luff" <havenotmetis@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: leggin's

linda,mike. the leggings that i talk of would be the working and all around 
buckskins of a working trappers. which is not the cleanest work,
it is hardwork ,trapping,skinning,bailing of furs and branding of bails
etc.thus the clothing was will used every day and nite. with a working
man the skins were a part of him made to serve a use.the metis women
had a good busnes trading brain tanned clothing to the fur trade most
were tailored to the new comers style with indian style mixed in. some
had some beading and other types of decor including quilwork. most of
the time the decor was simple for the working trapper.the "get down"
beading was saved for their men. of couse quilwork was held in will 
standing. we all know how long quiwork would last under wet and rough
work. i have been in skinning sence buckskin report came to this state
and have seen the change of time trew the years. even the old time
half breeds'would not dress in some of the outfits of todays mt.men
i see gost shirts and other type s of cothing that are held in religious
astem with some of ourmother tribes. bad medicine boy's.
BOTAS OR HALF BREED LEGGINGSmt man sketch book also points out that the
metis wore these.all though we make them more like indian style with a
working and dress style. they were worn to protect the cloth pants and
from yucca,snakes, and rough use.of course and art statment always.also
keep snow out of moc's.leggings make from brain tan will get that angle
from use on the 3/4 as you say.as for the shortones worn over thin cloth
pants, were a carry over from styl worn by eastern tribes."good protection 
in bush on foot." i think a man would of come west fur trade
with what his country provided and adapted to the area he was in or by
his group.the old fur trapper and metis had their style to id there
group. ref. some millers field drawings. as far as cleaning brain tan
"being a man" i would  rather make ,trade,steal,or wear untell fell off.
native or moones is two differenr worlds. we are talking trapper now.
if you wish to talk native ,sty with northern plains and i will talk.
                             camp fire getting low so i ll get to my
                             own metis camp.aurovwa mon amie's
                             Aho

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:37:44 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: leggin's

camp fire getting low so i ll get to my own metis camp.aurovwa mon amie's
Aho


Hello Terrance,

Where are you hailing from?  I like seeing the use of the word Aho.  A Crow
word for thank you.


Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana




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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:57:06 EDT
From: TEXASLAZYB@aol.com
Subject: MtMan-List: Aho

Aho is also Kiowa for hello, I think.

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:14:31 -0700
From: Julia <sirovetz@proaxis.com>
Subject: MtMan-List:  OT - Bicycle Corps

Dear Mr. Crawford,

I was indeed fascinated with the documentary on the Bicycle Solders 
that was on my local PBS station last evening,  it was well done and 
the segments that you appeared on were  very interesting.

I would like to thank you for making mention of this program on this 
list,  as I am not sure that I would have watched otherwise.  I had 
never heard of this amazing trek that was made.   After living for 
many years in the area of Montana that they crossed,  I can remember 
scraping the gumbo much off my boots,  I can imagine what it took to 
remove it from bike spokes,  men did not come much tougher than those 
of the Bicycle Corp.

Anyway,  thanks again,  it is a bit of American history that needs to 
be remembered.

Sincerely,
Julia





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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:09:38 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Aho

Aho is also Kiowa for hello, I think.

The Kiowa are reported to have lived in the 3 forks area in Montana before
they headed south of here.  My Crow friends talk about them.  I wonder about
the exact similarity fo the word.  Maybe the answer will show up on the
list.

Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana






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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:28:30 GMT
From: "Ethan Sudman" <ethan_sudman@hotmail.com>
Subject: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I am in nineth grade. I am very interested in 
American history. I have studied the Civil War extensively and the Oregon 
Trail to some extent. This year I will be studying the War of 1812, American 
Revolution, etc. in school as well as on my own.

Thanks,
Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com)
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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:40:52 -0600
From: "Walt Foster" <Wfoster@cw2.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I am in nineth grade. I am very interested in
American history. I have studied the Civil War extensively and the Oregon
Trail to some extent. This year I will be studying the War of 1812, American
Revolution, etc. in school as well as on my own.

Thanks,
Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com)

Hi Ethan,

Welcome to the mountain man list.


Walt
ORMC 1836-1837
Yellowstone Canoe Camp
On the Lewis & Clark Trail
Park City, Montana




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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 11:53:32 -0700
From: "Roger Lahti" <rtlahti@email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Ethan,

Welcome. You will find that there are many very knowledgeable folks on the
list. To learn anything from them, you may have to initiate some questions
though, as discussions of merit are not constantly on going.

So is there something particular on your mind or do ya just want to
set a spell enjoying the fire and see what comes up next?  <G> I
remain......

YMOS
Capt. Lahti'


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ethan Sudman" <ethan_sudman@hotmail.com>
To: <hist_text@xmission.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 11:28 AM
Subject: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone


> Hi everyone. I'm new here. I am in nineth grade. I am very interested in
> American history. I have studied the Civil War extensively and the Oregon
> Trail to some extent. This year I will be studying the War of 1812,
American
> Revolution, etc. in school as well as on my own.
>
> Thanks,
> Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com)
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
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> http://profiles.msn.com.
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>
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 15:29:09 -0700
From: Linda Holley <tipis@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Greetings to you, young sir.
Glad to see some NEW blood on the list.
Feel free to ask questions and give some impute.
And I am a History teacher.......

Linda Holley

Walt Foster wrote:

> Hi everyone. I'm new here. I am in nineth grade. I am very interested in
> American history. I have studied the Civil War extensively and the Oregon
> Trail to some extent. This year I will be studying the War of 1812, American
> Revolution, etc. in school as well as on my own.
>
> Thanks,
> Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com)
>
> Hi Ethan,
>
> Welcome to the mountain man list.
>
> Walt
> ORMC 1836-1837
> Yellowstone Canoe Camp
> On the Lewis & Clark Trail
> Park City, Montana
>
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 15:08:41 -0600
From: Allen Hall <allenhall@srv.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: leggin's

Hello,

Why don't we check the old boys:

From Journal of a Trapper by Osborne Russell...

"....a pair of leather breeches with Blanket or smoked Buffaloe skin,
leggins,...."

Osborne's punctuation wasn't too good, but what he meant came through loud
and clear.

Allen from Fort Hall country


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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:06:30 -0400
From: "Addison Miller" <admiller@brier.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Welcome to the list, Ethan... :)  Congratulations on your love of history...
I think that is something most of us on this list share...

Ad Miller
Alderson, WV


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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:13:29 EDT
From: LODGEPOLE@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Welcome Ethan,

  Good to see a youngster with a good thirst for knowledge.  You found a good 
spot, a lot of knowledgeable folks here abouts.

Longshot

"Longshot's Rendezvous Homepage"
http://members.aol.com/lodgepole/longshot.html

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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:15:27 -0400
From: hawknest4@juno.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

welcome to the list allen---glad to see you like history ---theres a
bunch of well informed people on this site---pull up and enjoy the ciber
fire and the chat---if you have a question then feel free to ask--- no
such thing as a silly question if you are truly seeking a answer.

"HAWK"
Michael Pierce       "Home Of the " Old Grizz " Product line    TRADEMARK
(C)
854 Glenfield Drive,    Palm Harbor,    Florida        34684
E-Mail: Hawknest4@juno.com     Phone:  1- 727-771-1815
Web Site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:10:51 -0600 
From: "Ratcliff" <rat@htcomp.net>
Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:10:23 -0500

Ethan
Welcome to the History List.  As you have already seen, the members here =
are friendly and eager to share their knowledge.  It is gratifying to =
see a young man express an interest in history.  Listen in and never be =
afraid to ask a question or to offer your own thoughts.
However, you should know that a small percentage of what is presented =
here as chiseled -in-stone fact is sometimes less accurate than it =
should be.  When such a "fact" is presented its accuracy might be =
challenged and debated at length....sometimes not, so beware of taking =
everything you see here at face value.
Some of what you might read is "rendezvous lore"...that is, =
superficially accurate (or even hardly accurate at all) "facts" learned =
at buckskinner rendezvous, etc.  So I would caution you to listen to =
what you hear but do your due diligence by checking and verifying the =
information by your own research, using original sources if possible.  =
There is a gold mine of such sources available online at:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/amm.html  I would suggest that you spend =
some time here whenever you can.  It is an incredible resource.
Search through the bibliography of books that interest you so that you =
can go directly to that author's sources for more and better =
information.  By doing that you might find, for instance,  that Josiah =
Gregg took down the cheap canvas wagon covers from his freight wagons as =
he came near Taos on his trading expeditions from St Louis and =
re-covered them with more expensive (and more heavily taxed) fabric from =
the merchandise he was taking to Taos to trade, thus beating (cheating) =
the Tax Man who didn't notice the switch.  "Commerce of the Prairie" by =
J. Gregg
Doing the research will help you determine the accuracy of a statement =
and will usually expose you to even more and better information.
Good luck and have some fun along the way.
YMOS
Lanney Ratcliff


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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:53:26 -0600
From: Mike Moore <amm1616@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: John Coffee Hays in the furtrade?

Hey,
    Hope the last message and pic went through, where do you want me
the send the good stuff?
                                        mike.

scott mcmahon wrote:

> Mike,
>         Well I never!   ...It's good to see somebody up in your part of the country
> has a sense of humor about this subject! I was up at Bent's Fort in July and
> got to listen to all the anti-Texan propoganda, what's that all about? I had
> people completely mad at me because Texas, a hundred and fifty years ago,
> claimed the land now known as Colorado! If your scanner won't work I
> understand... how ever you want to send it is FINE with me...I really
> appreciate it! Contact me off-list and I'll send you my address if you'd
> rather mail it. Thanks again and look forward to seeing some of you guys
> down this way sometime.
>         Most Sincerely,
>         Scott McMahon
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
> ----------------------
> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html


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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:24:47 EDT
From: GHickman@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Aho

TEXASLAZYB@aol.com writes:

> Aho is also Kiowa for hello, I think.>>

You are correct about the Crow "Aho" being thank you. It is also thank you in 
Kiowa, however, they are pronounced differently. In Kiowa it is
aaho'ow. Take a look at the following website: 
http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~olsalmi/kiowa.html

Crow and Kiowa are somewhat related linguistically. Crow is in the Shoshonean 
Language Group which is a subset of the Aztec-Tanoan (Utaztecan-Tanoan) group 
and Kiowa is its own language group (subset) also part of the Aztec-Tanoan 
group.

I remain....
YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:27:29 EDT
From: GHickman@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List:  OT - Bicycle Corps

 sirovetz@proaxis.com writes:

> I was indeed fascinated with the documentary on the Bicycle Solders 
>  that was on my local PBS station last evening...>>

There is a great history, some memorabilia and the complete story of the 
Bicycle Soldiers in the Fort Missoula Museum in Missoula, Montana.

YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:32:18 -0700 
From: Pat Quilter <pat_quilter@qscaudio.com>
Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller: Works Viewable on the Intern et

There is a book of Miller's Field Sketches (fairly standard hardback size,
not a coffee-table format) which had well over 100 drawings with a paragraph
or two of Miller's notes with each one. I have only seen one copy, in my
friend Burnt Spoon's library. This would be an invaluable pictorial resource
and I would love to find a copy myself, if only I could remember the exact
title.
Pat Quilter.

- -----Original Message-----
From: larry pendleton [mailto:yrrw@airmail.net]
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 9:36 PM
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller: Works Viewable on the
Internet


I haven't been following this topic very closely.  Have any of you been able
to find a source for Miller's original drawings ?  I have been able to see
some of them in museums and there are very interesting.  There are things in
the drawings that don't show up in his paintings which were done after he
returned to civilization.
Pendleton
- -----Original Message-----
From: Wind1838@aol.com <Wind1838@aol.com>
To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com <hist_text@lists.xmission.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Alfred Jacob Miller: Works Viewable on the Internet


Mike.  Well, I'm glad somebody on this list followed the trail and commented
on Miller's magnificent art work.  Don't you just wonder what was really
going on that day.  Old Alfred Jacob Miller, proper Baltimore artiste that
he
was, just may have just broken out into a sweat.

Mr. Moore, you get the A+ in art history today.

Laura Glise

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:34:07 EDT
From: Wind1838@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Ethan:

Ever study TALL TALES in school?  Well, along with the history you'll catch a 
few tall tales from a few of the regulars here.  Ya'll know who you are . . . 
.

Wind1838

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:35:32 EDT
From: GHickman@aol.com
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Aho

Wfoster@cw2.com writes:

> The Kiowa are reported to have lived in the 3 forks area in Montana before
>  they headed south of here.>>

The Kiowa did move into the southern Plains from the North in the eighteenth 
century. There is an account of the Kiowa move to the southern plains in N. 
Scott Momaday's, The Way to Rainy Mountain, 1969, University of New Mexico. I 
no longer have the book. Take a look at it, it is very interesting. I 
remain....

YMOS
Ghosting Wolf

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Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:40:14 -0400
From: "Dennis Miles" <deforge1@bright.net>
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Greetings to everyone

Wind1838 Wrote:
"Ya'll know who you are . . ." 
> .

She is talking to you Texians..
D




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