From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #648 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, October 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 648 In this issue: -       RE: MtMan-List: Journals and Metis -       RE: MtMan-List: Journals and Metis -       RE: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. -       Re: MtMan-List: extinction [was other stuff] -       Re: MtMan-List: extinction [was other stuff] -       Re: MtMan-List: Hybrid saddles. -       RE: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. -       MtMan-List: FindArticles - The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review) -       RE: MtMan-List: buckskinning sub society -       RE: MtMan-List: FindArticles - The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review) -       Re: MtMan-List: missouri river -       MtMan-List: Of Boats & Horses & Norsemen -       Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? -       Re: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. -       Re: MtMan-List: Lyman Trade Rifle ? -       Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? -       RE: MtMan-List: Metis in Ft. Hall Country. -       MtMan-List: metis,mixbld,ft hall -       MtMan-List: metis,mixbld,ft hall -       MtMan-List: halfbreed vis metis -       RE: MtMan-List: halfbreed vis metis -       MtMan-List: Re: Just thinking . . . most probably Off Topic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:57:51 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Journals and Metis Gentlemen, Going through several journals from the period I find by going through the indexes: I really like history, and I like facts about history even better. This is from the guys that were there. I'm sure that everyone knows that Osborne Russell in fact, WAS there at the building of Fort Hall. Osborne didn't mention Metis. Well, this has been fun, and made me did into the documentation again. Allen in Fort Hall country Allen, Same old books. Same index referencing. That is pretty lazy history. Using the same documentation as posted. On page 14 "In August of 1830, Smith, Jackson and Sublette sold out to five friends. Tom Fitzpatrick, Milton Sublette, Henry Fraeb, Jean Baptiste Gervais, and Jim Bridger." Here 2 Metis reached ownership, Allen. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - -----Original Message----- From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Allen Hall Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:25 PM To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com Subject: MtMan-List: Journals and Metis - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:20:28 -0600 From: Allen Hall Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Journals and Metis At 11:57 PM 10/10/2000 -0600, you wrote: > >Same old books. Same index referencing. That is pretty lazy history. > Heck Walt, there haven't been any new books put out by primary sources for awhile.... > >Using the same documentation as posted. On page 14 "In August of 1830, >Smith, Jackson and Sublette sold out to five friends. Tom Fitzpatrick, >Milton Sublette, Henry Fraeb, Jean Baptiste Gervais, and Jim Bridger." Here >2 Metis reached ownership, Allen. Which book was that in? And which are the Metis of the five? Come on now, no lazy history. LOL Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:20:27 -0600 From: Allen Hall Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. At 11:37 PM 10/10/2000 -0600, you wrote: Walt, >He was awarded the 1967 Pulitzer Prize in history for >Exploration and Empire: The Explorer and the Scientist in the Winning of >the American West. On page 14 he writes about "Wyeth , angry and >disappointed, moved west, constructed Fort Hall on the Salmon Fork of the >Columbia," How interesting. When did Fort Hall move to the mouth of the Portneuf and the Snake River? You and your expert should look at a map every now and then. Good try, got anything else? >Think about it. Pretend you are a >student instead of a professor perhaps that will permit you to see the vast, >deep and wide influence of the Metis. I'm very much a stutend, and try to be serious. I read journals and lots of stuff. I'm trying real hard to see it Walt, but so far it's pretty hard to see. Russell, Larpenteur, Leonard, Stewart, and Ferris apparently didn't see it either. Help us out here. >I think if you will conduct a >little reference work yourself you will see what mean. I'll keep on digging. Why don't you do the same. Allen - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1904 21:17:40 -0700 From: Joe Brandl Subject: Re: MtMan-List: extinction [was other stuff] You have to remember the high numbers of buffalo that were killed in fires, drownings and blizzards. drowning each year account for amazingly high numbers joe Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com Call us about our tanning, furs & leather and lodgepole furniture 307-455-2440 New leather wildlife coasters and placemats - ther're great!! - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:39:41 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: extinction [was other stuff] Lee, The Vikings had other boats besides the long boat, I have also heard that they have just discovered a 175'0" Long boat in Iceland. This would make it possible to haul all sorts of goods. There have also been digs in eastern Canada where they have found Viking artifacts, the speculation was that the seatelment was abandoned due too warfare, if they had taken horses they would have probably abandoned them. I don't know but it is possible. YMOS Ole #718 - ---------- >From: Lee Newbill >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: extinction [was other stuff] >Date: Tue, Oct 10, 2000, 8:03 PM > >"Ole B. Jensen" wrote: > >> Walt, >> Yes they used the Shetland, but there was another small horse they used as >> well. > >Hallo the Camp...... > >There is a small horse called (if my memory serves), the Icelandic horse. >Smallish, hairy, and sturdy. Of Nordic origions I believe. I did not know the >seafarers of the north took their horses with them. Had to have been hard on >them in those boats. > >The shetland pony I believe is of Britanic origions and was used as a tiny draft >horse in the mines. > >As I am work, I do not have my books handy to verify this all this. > >Regards > >Lee of North Idaho > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:58:11 -0600 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hybrid saddles. Cliff, The first letter is Dated April 24, 1833, he states"No difference is percivable to those who are not practical mechanics of the saddling buisiness between the shape of the saddle above mentioned and the real spannish saddle" He then goes on to state that the saddle he make's is longer and wider to accomodate the larger American horses and that he has added a pad on the seat for the riders comfort which is covered by the "Mochila" The second letter is dated June 27, 1833 this saddle is the Hybrid it has a rawhide tree but looks a lot like an english military saddle on steroids, you have to read these two letters together to desern the diference. Cliff, They were both Hybrids, as I am writing a paper on this subject I have probably said too much. YMOS Ole #718 - ---------- >From: "Chance Tiffie" >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Hybrid saddles. >Date: Tue, Oct 10, 2000, 7:19 PM > > > >Mr. Jensen, >I do not have a copy of "Man Made Mobile." I have read it a couple of times >though. Does the letter written to the war dept. describe the spanish saddle >as having pads or skirts, also what is the dates of the correspondence?? >Records show the sell of "spanish" saddles, bare or "complete," interpreted >to mean padded, and rigged with skirts. If that is the case then those were >hybrid saddles. I had the pleasure of hearing Clay Landry speak on AFC >records at the Fur Trade Symposium last month, and one item he addressed was >saddles. His research has shown that the term "spanish," had nothing to do >with the origin of the saddle, but described the type of tree. If that is >the case then couldn't it be possible, that some of Grimsley's "spanish" >saddles were hybrids?? > >Cliff Tiffie >PO Box 5089 >Durant, OK >74702 >580-924-4187 >--------------------- >Aux Aliments de Pays! > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:14:49 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. How interesting. When did Fort Hall move to the mouth of the Portneuf and the Snake River? Allen About the same time Charlie Russell was run out of Idaho, as you said. You shouldn't ought to done it VBG The Alfred Jacob Miller A ROCKY MOUNTAIN TRAPPER. Pictures a Metis. If you can read a trail. You can read a picture. Them is Metis mocs I see. A hat that will stay on the head. And the Metis style of coat. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:34:36 -0700 (PDT) From: karl@intercompco.com Subject: MtMan-List: FindArticles - The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review) abe [karl@intercompco.com] thought you'd find this article useful. The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review) http://www.findarticles.com/m1511/9_20/55553393/p1/article.jhtml Interesting book on Indians and animal populations. _________________________________________________________________________ FindArticles - "The Web's First Articles Archive" http://www.findarticles.com/ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:05:06 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: buckskinning sub society walt , concho and camp. i was at a rondie and ran into a couple greeners. they were a goup of profs from some collage( leaving out names for a reason) studing as many mt man type fuctions they xcound. said there were different unv. woundering if buckskinner cound be sub society. also the fact that with a armed camped there seemed to be no confrountation serious jury type. just woundering if ether of you ran into that. damit walt old my ass , you and i will still be shanking our spirs in the ears of broncs and shooting our 1803 ,s yelling get out of my way, here i come. when the time comes. look in the shadow,s behind you i,m there ponyrider Ponyrider, Steve Bearhand called me this morning. Gave me a report on the doings at Fort Union. Steve told me that he could have received college credit for the courses given there. Only one non professor was represented. A woman who gave a class on herbs. The talk I was interested in was about the Assiniboines relationship with Fort Union. The talk was by a college professor he thought. And he did not see Carl Four Stars or Mason Runs Through at the event. I hoped they could be there. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:10:02 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: FindArticles - The Ecological Indian: Myth and History.(Review) Interesting book on Indians and animal populations. Hi Karl, I don't think the buffalo jump numbers were around 200. Very large numbers most likely could not be factored in here in Montana. One of the best jump sites is the Ulm Pishkin. Most just sites were not used after the time of the horse. Something further to consider. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:58:42 -0700 From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: missouri river Yo Joe Check the date on your computer.... it's coming up with dates from 1904.... which puts your messages up at the top of most folks mail browsers... where they won't get read. Regards from Idaho Lee Newbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:21:39 -0700 From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Of Boats & Horses & Norsemen Ole While researching the history of the Bateau, I did some fair amount of reading on the Viking longships. I know they had different sizes of boats, but I never saw any of their boats I'd opt to cross the Atlantic in. Tough bunch of boys. On the Viking settlements, I think most historians have accepted they were here and there on the northeast coast long before Mr. C. Columbus sweet talked the Spanish Queen into a couple of boats. The dominant theory that I get from readings is that the Norsemen's superstitious nature, combined with their bad temper and their penchant for attempting to kill any stranger they ran across, earned them the enmity of the locals, which in turn got them ousted/punctured/Vahalla bound. I would imagine that any horses they brought over were eventually served up for dinner. Regards from Idaho... where it is now HUNTING SEASON! See y'all in the woods. Gotta run Lee Newbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:07:44 -0500 From: "jdearing" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? > Can not comment much on the Uberti vs the LPR, I do know that the old timers > that I asked when I was getting started told me that out of all the > production guns I could buy, the Lyman Plains Rifle was the closest when it > came to looks and the weight. I can tell you that the LPR is a very heavy > rifle weighing in at 9lbs. I was also told that I could show up to > Friendship with this rifle and shoot it without any problems. Unfortunately, this is all true. Only because these isn't anything remotly resembling an authentic Hawken rifle on the market. I have one of those old Uberi's, and I once owned a GPR. Not even close. The old Uberti Santa Fe Hawken was about 90% authentic, the GPR ain't even close, but is is a good rifle, and it is close enough to qualify for competition in what might pass for "juried" rendezvous. If you think the GPR is heavy, try a good, authentic, cutom made Hawken replica. Heh, heh, heh, that GPR is noticably lighter. > > Now on the Longhunter era. I believe the beginning of the "boschloper" / > "coureur de bois" was sometime in the late 1700's. I also believe that the > Longhunter era ranged into the early 1800's. Now I guess it depends on what > years you consider early. The time frame for the boschloper began in the 1600's when the Dutch, in what is now New York State, began to trade with the Indians. The word boschloper is, if I remember correctly, Dutch. The French coureur de bois also began to trade and live with the Northern Tribes in the early 1600's. The Christianized Huron Nation was nearly wiped out by the Abenaki in 1685, I believe. The French missionaries had been active among the Tribes long before that, and the coureur de bois guided the missionaries to their destinations. Check out the movie "Black Robe" for a little background on this period. Now don't get me wrong, the movie will give you a little background, but it ain't history. Just good Hollywood, for once. The period of the long hunter spanned the period from the mid 1760's to the Rev War. A real short time frame. The Contractors just couldn't generate much interest in organizing any long hunts after the Rev. War. Allot of the game had already been killed in Kentucky and Tennesee, so the hunters would have to work extra hard just to find marketable hides. > > I do not plan on changing my persona as my half Indian half White man dress > suits me fine. At the rendezvous I attend, I seem to fit in with the > mountain men and the Indians just fine. Since I am down here in Georgia in > the South, I may fit more into the persona of the Canebrake. These were > whitemen who took Indian wives and lived like the Indians. Yeh, that's me > but since I am not a true Southerner, I will stay with the Longhunter. > Well, that's OK with me. Just a thought though, few rendezvous have very much to do with honest portrayals of history. Please do some research, look at the ALRA boys, some of the AMM, and the members of a few other groups who DO actually research the late colonial period. And when someone tells you something is wrong, or right, ask for their documentation. There are allot of "period legends" floating around as fact. Nothing but pure imagination that somehow gets told as fact. Believe nothing that anyone tells you without documentation to back up those claims. > JD, thanks for the input. I see that I will half to do more research. Always willing to lend a helping hand. That's what this list is all about. J.D. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:47:45 -0700 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. Hi walt, what do you mean when you say metis. are you refering to any person of french and indian ansestry? or are you refering to a person of the group known as the metis, of red river area? as I understand it, Metis/Metizo is the french word meaning, mixed blood. or in other words are you considering every french canadian with an indian mother and europian father, as metis. sincerely; Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walt Foster" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:14 AM Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Metis and Allen in Ft. Hall Country. > How interesting. When did Fort Hall move to the mouth of the Portneuf and > the Snake River? > Allen > > About the same time Charlie Russell was run out of Idaho, as you said. You > shouldn't ought to done it VBG > > The Alfred Jacob Miller A ROCKY MOUNTAIN TRAPPER. Pictures a Metis. If you > can read a trail. You can read a picture. Them is Metis mocs I see. A hat > that will stay on the head. And the Metis style of coat. > > Walt > Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 > Clark Bottom Rendezvous > Yellowstone Canoe Camp > On the Lewis & Clark Trail > Park City, Montana > > > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:28:59 -0600 From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lyman Trade Rifle ? jdearing wrote: > Unfortunately, this is all true. Only because these isn't anything remotly > resembling an authentic Hawken rifle on the market. I have one of those old > Uberi's, and I once owned a GPR. Not even close. The old Uberti Santa Fe > Hawken was about 90% authentic, the GPR ain't even close, but is is a good > rifle, and it is close enough to qualify for competition in what might pass > for "juried" rendezvous. > > If you think the GPR is heavy, try a good, authentic, cutom made Hawken > replica. Heh, heh, heh, that GPR is noticably lighter.................... > Always willing to lend a helping hand. That's what this list is all about. > J.D. > > ---------------------- J.D., If you watch the classified ads in Muzzleloader, Muzzle Blasts and a few others you can once in a while find an old Uberti Santa Fe Hawken and I have picked up several Green River Rifleworks - 1/2 and full stock Hawken rifles, even a GRR Leman at fair prices. Saw a full stock GRR flinter Hawken in good condition at the last gun show in Denver for $900, got him down to $825 which is about average here. So if you guys keep your eyes open, there's still some of the good copies floating around. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:03:19 -0400 From: "Frank V. Rago" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Is the Lyman Trade Rifle PC? JD, Seems that you know your stuff. > The period of the long hunter spanned the period from the mid 1760's to > the Rev War. A real short time frame. The Contractors just couldn't generate > much interest in organizing any long hunts after the Rev. War. Allot of the > game > had already been killed in Kentucky and Tennesee, so the hunters would have > to work extra hard just to find marketable hides. Do you have any books that you would recommend? My information that I have gotten off the net leads me to believe that the Longhunter period started in the late 1790 after the indian wars and continued into the early 1800's. It seemed to be a very short period. > > I do not plan on changing my persona as my half Indian half White man > dress > > suits me fine. At the rendezvous I attend, I seem to fit in with the > > mountain men and the Indians just fine. Since I am down here in Georgia > in > > the South, I may fit more into the persona of the Canebrake. These were > > whitemen who took Indian wives and lived like the Indians. Yeh, that's me > > but since I am not a true Southerner, I will stay with the Longhunter. > > > Well, that's OK with me. Just a thought though, few rendezvous have very > much > to do with honest portrayals of history. Please do some research, look at > the ALRA > boys, some of the AMM, and the members of a few other groups who DO > actually research the late colonial period. > > And when someone tells you something is wrong, or right, ask for their > documentation. There are allot of "period legends" floating around as fact. > Nothing but pure imagination that somehow gets told as fact. Believe nothing > that anyone tells you without documentation to back up those claims. When I attend the rendezvous I am usually wearing my deerskin leggins, breach cloth, mocs along with a home made muslin shirt. My outer coat is made of duck and it follows the traditional look, very plain. I try to be as authentic as possible and have had many positive comments from both the old indians and ol timers on the articles and garments that I have made.. This does make me feel good but there is always room for inprovement. I believe that my gear to be affective for me has to have medicine. By this I mean that it must mean something to me. You will not see me carry any manuf. equipment, excluding the gun and that will change one day. The hawk I carry was made by a Cherokee friend, the bowie by an old buckskinner, the leggins leather I got out of a trade for a badgerskin possibles bag that I made, I later made the leggins. I take it more seriously than most but not as serious as some. My biggest problem now is making a pack that will fit my needs, which are not much. I have scraped the lean to for a 7x7 foot duck tarp that will be an everything shelter. Compact, light and very versatile. I do want for another rifle, it is the Tenn. style poor boy. Plain and simple no fancy stuff, 45 cal. flint but the LPR will have to do as I want to make the poor boy myself. Alot of the sites I visit on the web seem to cater to the mountain man fur trade and his needs. If you have a site/s that may cater to the southern gent who ventured up and down the east coast and sometimes ventured out west to the mountains. I would be interested. Thanks, Frank V. Rago > > > JD, thanks for the input. I see that I will half to do more research. > > Always willing to lend a helping hand. That's what this list is all about. > J.D. > > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:51:24 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Metis in Ft. Hall Country. Hi walt, what do you mean when you say metis. are you refering to any person of french and indian ansestry? or are you refering to a person of the group known as the metis, of red river area? as I understand it, Metis/Metizo is the french word meaning, mixed blood. or in other words are you considering every french canadian with an indian mother and europian father, as metis. sincerely; Tom Hi Tom, I think it goes beyond that to include other nationalities in the Rocky Mountain fur trade. The Scots and others in management positions also left their offspring. I am not forgetting the daughters of the fur trade either. I think the Red Cart Metis are one of the highly recognizable attributes of this culture. But this Metis culture had a long time to build it's unique position in the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade and for the most part are unrecognized as being a strong part the work force in Montana, Wyoming and Idaho as well. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:10:16 MDT From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: metis,mixbld,ft hall gents. poeple that were there, the men you named and my names might not be same. but let me try the red river metis ,carts brgads, keeped a low profile in white companys.done a great trade bus and indian furs. a few men of carts done contact at fort union and other trading centers not the whole cart camp. but you what ref. differant (pages) used by strange empire. Blackfeet and buffalo james w. schulz pages 41,43 44,50,60 trip through paradise chapter on breeds and crees in red river carts,plenty coups(crow indian chief) red river metis ,cart, hidden in cotton woods ect about three page on this. the red river settlement its rise, progress and present state, the book hold some hudson and norwest statments made to metis and a number of priest names that traveled with the metis,not that they liked it. the time of the buffalo another book of statments of metis hunters and money. in the field of the fur trade were the artisPeter rindisbacher made several pictures of metis,frank mayer his drawing of red river metis,paul kane portai cree hafbreed in metis dress. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:10:15 MDT From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: metis,mixbld,ft hall gents. poeple that were there, the men you named and my names might not be same. but let me try the red river metis ,carts brgads, keeped a low profile in white companys.done a great trade bus and indian furs. a few men of carts done contact at fort union and other trading centers not the whole cart camp. but you what ref. differant (pages) used by strange empire. Blackfeet and buffalo james w. schulz pages 41,43 44,50,60 trip through paradise chapter on breeds and crees in red river carts,plenty coups(crow indian chief) red river metis ,cart, hidden in cotton woods ect about three page on this. the red river settlement its rise, progress and present state, the book hold some hudson and norwest statments made to metis and a number of priest names that traveled with the metis,not that they liked it. the time of the buffalo another book of statments of metis hunters and money. in the field of the fur trade were the artisPeter rindisbacher made several pictures of metis,frank mayer his drawing of red river metis,paul kane portai cree hafbreed in metis dress. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:46:19 MDT From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: halfbreed vis metis this is a sticky one, i have to make sure i don,t step on the millions of metis of canada and montana,n.d. threw the juronals of the big companys, they say i sent some metis and other mix bloods down to ect----. the metis is and was the new nation and not all mix bloods of the country new of the metis nat. i have covered, alittle on the mix of indian tribes and and white nations that mixed at first. from the . not all half bloods id with may tee but can be. metis means mix so really ---- but metis is nation of mix bloods and at that time a hlf blood was discrimined by white and red a fell in with their own.the metis history is from the shadows were they wanted to be, to enter into to the history of the metis roots and fur connection, mean you will be buying different books from the norm fur history. i can only help show you the way cannot make you drink the water. Ft HALL will at this time i can not find any firm info on metis and ft. hall , don,t forget indivual doing his own thing. i have to add a little jab here. i have been to fort hall and fort union. i don t know if ft hall people rebuilt by old times. buuut i much rether say the metis built ft union than ft hall. ft union is truely a pearl on the high plans. to day fort hall kind of drab place. isn,t fr union records of that time period of fur trade. i think they were there to. i not sure about that, but i think so.""" i ref. the book THE FUR TRADE IN NORTH DAKOTA edited by virginia l.heidenreich State historical Society of NORTH DAKOTA. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:08:39 -0600 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: halfbreed vis metis i ref. the book THE FUR TRADE IN NORTH DAKOTA edited by virginia l.heidenreich State historical Society of NORTH DAKOTA. Hello Ponyrider, I think the names are a strong indicator of the individuals involved. Not only French names. Vern Carpenter is a descendent of the Metis. So is Gary Johnson. And they do not have French names. Also Laramie. That is located on the North Platte is named after a Frenchman, a Metis I believe. The AFC employed a lot of Metis. Not just at Fort Union. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:46:07 EDT From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: Just thinking . . . most probably Off Topic Hallo the Camp. . . Well, I was thinking tonight. What else do you do in Washington when the sun doesn't shine and you can't see the moon? I was thinking of what I've learned since I began my exploration of the Rocky Mountain Fur Trade and the priceless knowledge I've found on this list. I was thinking of you renegades I've met along the way, and have come to depend upon. You know who you are and I thank you very much. I was thinking of the times I saw a post on this list and I thought, "Right On." OR "Are these folks mentally challenged?" I was thinking of the bantering back and forth and, of late, wondering . . . . is this really what Dean Rudy had in mind when he masterfully began these archives? I was thinking of the unexpected friendships I've found along the way and how much I appreciate the invaluable information the list has shared. How many times have I come to this rectangular campfire late at night and found your voices? Sometimes I wonder what planet you folks are from, spitting out words about dinosaurs, Metis, Dutch Ovens, saddles, Fort Hall . . . I'm sure I've forgotten a few topics . . but at least we share a passion. Regardless -- off topic, on topic, period correct, or hysterically incorrect . . . . I'm going to hit SEND now. Look out for squalls and I wish ----- Fair weather to you all, Wind1838@aol.com Laura Glise - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #648 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.