From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #675 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, November 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 675 In this issue: -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #674 -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #674 -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: rops and cordage -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods -牋牋牋 Re: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Rendezvous -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: PC powder horn and measure -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: PC powder horn and measure -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: big deer -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale -牋牋牋 Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage -牋牋牋 MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:22:01 GMT From: "Ethan Sudman" Subject: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition Does anyone know of any good resources (especually books, in particular ones that a library would be likely to have) about the Louis and Clark expedition (sp)? Thanks, Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:47:51 -0600 From: Mike Rock Subject: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #674 Dave, When I learned rope from the old Dane in North Dakota, he had me 'set' it by soaking for a while in water, then stretching in overnight, tied of to a couple saplings..only trees we had were saplings in the windbreaks. He could make dandy hair rope and any horse tack you could want. He and his bride rode to old Mexico for a honeymoon during the start of the depression..came back four years later, richer than when he left, and not all in money either. One hell of a man. Hats of to Datus and Viola Hill...long gone, but not forgotten. Most respectfully, Mike Rock - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:00:22 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Re: hist_text-digest V1 #674 > When I learned rope from the old Dane in North Dakota, he had me 'set' > it by soaking for a while in water, then stretching in overnight, tied > of to a couple saplings..only trees we had were saplings in the > windbreaks. Mike, We are talking two close but different things. In my instructions, when I used the term "set" it meant to pull on the rope during the making process. If you don't do this, then when you release the tension on it, it proceeds to curl up like a Slinky, rendering all your previous work down the tubes. If you wind it hard enough and set it during the process, there is no need to do so when the rope is done. You can make them so stiff that you can stick them in the ground and climb them, disappearing into the clouds. However, that is an advanced technique beyond the scope of this list. I also forgot to mention that you should take a candle and burn off all the fuzzies, and then slick the rope down with a coarse rag or leather glove. Dave - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:39:12 -0800 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition Ethan I really enjoyed undaunted courage by Steven ambrose. my city library has the whole set of the journals volumes Yours might as well. sincerely; Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ethan Sudman To: Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition > Does anyone know of any good resources (especually books, in particular ones > that a library would be likely to have) about the Louis and Clark expedition > (sp)? > > Thanks, > Ethan Sudman (ethan_sudman@hotmail.com) > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:59:32 -0700 From: Allen Hall Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods Dianne, Thank you for a good working definition of "Metis". This has been a problem in some of the discussions here of late. Your definition fits what many of us believe to be the case, and certainly fit more with the existing journals. Thanks, and welcome, you've just contributed something meaningful!!! YMOS, Allen >By common use >(today) Metis implies French/Native; by Metis self-definition (years ago) is >was a "cultural" classification - French/Native/Catholic. By both Metis and >common definition, anyone else is "half-breed" with the historical >connotation of being somewhat LESS "value" than white. (Sorry for the racial >slurs.) > >Among the Iroquois, who was and wasn't a member of the tribe was decided by >the tribe (and still is, much to the chagrin of the U.S. government). >Inheritance was matrilineal but adoption was every bit as respected as >"membership by birth". In the old days, it carried a lot of weight because >an adopted member was chosen for a reason - usually something about their >character - and they were often chosen to fill the role of someone who had >died. Some who came to the Longhouse lived there without ever being formally >adopted and never gained the status of a "real person". > >Among the Iroquois people, trade routes existed throughout the eastern and >central part of North America long before the whiteman. Indian tobacco was >traded as far west as the western plains. Minnesota soapstone (for pipes) >and turquoise from the southwest was not uncommon in Iroquois country. I >have heard it claimed by my People (though don't know if it is documented) >that Iroquois traders were found on the Pacific coast when the west coast of >Canada was "discovered" > >I am happy with my persona and I think I am content to live with my canvas >covered tipi and put up with the occasional challenge. At least, from the >comments on the list, it isn't TOO far out of line. > >(Finally decided on a monichre - Jin-o-ta-ka - Seneca for Muskrat, kind of >appropriate I think!) > >Thanks all. > >Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 02:02:47 EST From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition Check on Lewis & Clark / The Journey of the Corps of Discovery, An Illustrated History by Dayton Duncan and Ken Burns published by Knopf, New York, 1997. ISBN 0-679-45450-0. It's the companion book to the PBS documentary film by Ken Burns. IN addition to some great journal reading and quote's, but the illustrations of everything from weapons to animals are impressive. If the library doesn't have it, maybe PBS's website or one of the online booksellers. IMHO, this one is worth adding to your library. Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 07:23:30 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: rops and cordage Manila rope is available at Wal-Mart and just about any farm supply or hardware store I have ever seen. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 20:16:00 -0700 From: Angela Gottfred Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tipis & mixed-bloods >The reason I chose the Seneca background is because I sought refuge with an >old woman on the Grand River Reserve often and over many years when I was >young Sorry, but the penny just dropped. ;-) There were many Iroqouis involved in the Canadian fur trade in western Canada during this time frame. There is a great article on the subject: Nicks, Trudy. 'The Iroquois and the Fur Trade in Western Canada', in Old Trails & New Directions : Papers of the Third North American Fur Trade Conference. Carol M. Judd and Arthur J. Ray, eds. University of Toronto Press : Toronto, 1978. If I recall correctly, they were mostly Mohawks (from Kahnawake), but who's to say there weren't some Senecas too? Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:27:01 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: Louis and Clark expedition

- ---- Begin Original Message ---- Check on Lewis & Clark / The Journey of the Corps of Discovery, An Illustrated History by Dayton Duncan and Ken Burns published by Knopf, New York, 1997. =A0ISBN 0-679-45450-0. =A0It's the companion book to the PBS documentary film by Ken Burns. IN addition to some great journal reading and quote's, but the =A0illustrations of everything from weapons to animals are impressive. If the library doesn't have it, maybe PBS's website or one of the online booksellers. =A0IMHO, this one is worth adding to your library. =A0Barney =A0 =A0 - ---- End Original Message ---- These are my most read books on the subject. Take a look at a great reference book done by a member of this list. 1. LEWIS & CLARK & THE IMAGE OF THE AMERICAN NORTHWEST by Jon Logan Allen. ISBN 0-486-26914-0 2. BEFORE LEWIS & CLARK-DOCUMENTS ILLUSTRATING THE HISTORY OF THE MISSOURI 1785-1804 by A.P.Nasatir (2 vol set) ISBN 0-8032-8362-8 3. LEWIS & CLARK PIONEERING NATURALISTS by Paul Russell Cutright ISBN 0-832-6334-1 4. THE JOURNALS OF LEWIS & CLARK by Bernard DeVoto ISBN 0-395-08380-X 5. ONLY ONE MAN DIED - THE MEDICAL ASPECTS OF THE LEWIS & CLARK EXPEDITION by Eldon G. Chuinard, M.D. ISBN0-87062-128-9 These books run from $12 to $35 dollars and are available at most book sources and libraries. 6. ORIGINAL JOURNALS OF THE LEWIS & CLARK EXPEDITION 1804-1806 by Reuben Gold Thwaites (8 vol set) Arno Press, these can be a little pricey and have to be special ordered - have seen them at $465.xx new to $175.xx used - good cond. These are just a few of 28-30 titles I have on the subject of Lewis & Clark and their travels, this will always be an non-ending story.

Take care, Barry "Buck" Conner Resource & Documentation for: ___________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT ______________________________HRD__ Visit these period camp sites at: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/ ___________ Aux Aliments de Pays! __ _____________________________________________
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- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 17:06:02 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale List members, An old friend of mine seems to want to get out of the buckskinning business and has some items for sale. I have listed them below without price as the rules dictate. If your interested please contact Mr. Buck directly. All items are located in Kennewick, WA. Please do not direct any inquiries to the list. Thank you, Capt. Lahti' mailto:buck2825@email.msn.com 16 foot teepee, tight weave water proof canvas. Comes with; liner, ozan, floor, door, poles and rope. excellent condition --- Black powder cannon, 2 1/8 inch bore, removable breech for cleaning. Mounted on carriage with modern wheels. throw in some powder and fuse.- 60 cal. smooth bore trade gun, flintlock, green river forge lock and barrel. Sitting fox and all. -- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 20:47:38 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Re: MtMan-Rendezvous - --part1_80.312e851.27488b3a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You all missed a great rendezvous. Dripping Springs Rendeazvous was this past week. The compititions were won by a 16yr. old boy and paid, $135.00 Second was won by a 16 yr. old girl, $90.00. Third by a 14 yr old boy, $60.00. Then the adults started to place. Next years dates are 8 -11 Nov 01. Hope to see you there. There were reinactors from 9 states. Not bad for the second year. Ridgepole - --part1_80.312e851.27488b3a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You all missed a great rendezvous. Dripping Springs Rendeazvous was this
past week. The compititions were won by a 16yr. old boy and paid, $135.00
Second was won by a 16 yr. old girl, $90.00. Third by a 14 yr old boy,
$60.00. Then the adults started to place. Next years dates are 8 -11 Nov 01.
Hope to see you there. There were reinactors from 9 states. Not bad for
the second year.

Ridgepole - --part1_80.312e851.27488b3a_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:00:49 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: PC powder horn and measure Can anyone out there give me advice on a pc powder horn and powder measure (did such a thing exist and if it did not what is an ok pc substitute?). About how much would these cost me? Would they be cheaper (more satisfying for sure) to build/make myself? Thanks for the advice in advance! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:46:58 -0800 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: PC powder horn and measure I have a horn and bag for each gun I shoot. My smoothbore uses a hand-made powder horn of buffalo horn on a separate strap. My rifle has two matched cow horns attached to the bag strap. Both guns use antler bored out to the proper charge for each specific gun. Both the antler changer and the buffalo and cow horn powder "flasks" are historically correct which should be PC enough for anyone. Larry Huber - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2000 7:00 PM Subject: MtMan-List: PC powder horn and measure > Can anyone out there give me advice on a pc powder horn and powder measure > (did such a thing exist and if it did not what is an ok pc substitute?). > About how much would these cost me? Would they be cheaper (more satisfying > for sure) to build/make myself? > Thanks for the advice in advance! > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 00:35:37 -0500 From: "John Hunt" Subject: MtMan-List: big deer In the Dayton Daily news, news paper, Dayton Ohio, there was a pic of a possible new record white tail that came out of Green county Ohio. It was in ( I think) Fridays paper. It was a 39 point buck. It said possible new record. It was estimated by the hunter at about 225# on the hoof. The rack was very deformed looking by the pic. Deformed by the number of points sticking out in every which direction. It appeared extremely large at the base. It was taken this week with a bow. Unable to get a pic to keep. It was just WOW !! to look at it. One side was way bigger than my first deer, a 10 pointer. Oh yes, this is an eastern count. John (BIG JOHN) Hunt longhunter mountainman Southwest, Ohio - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 01:05:57 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale I am going to have a for sale site for tipi owners on my web site. If you get your friend in touch with me, I can put it up and see what happens. Just talk to someone tonight who was interested in a tipi. If he has a photo of it up, that is even better. Linda Holley http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com Roger Lahti wrote: > List members, > > An old friend of mine seems to want to get out of the buckskinning business > and has some items for sale. I have listed them below without price as the > rules dictate. If your interested please contact Mr. Buck directly. All > items are located in Kennewick, WA. Please do not direct any inquiries to > the list. Thank you, > > Capt. Lahti' > > mailto:buck2825@email.msn.com > > 16 foot teepee, tight weave water proof canvas. Comes with; liner, ozan, > floor, door, poles and rope. excellent condition --- > > Black powder cannon, 2 1/8 inch bore, removable breech for cleaning. Mounted > on carriage with modern wheels. throw in some powder and fuse.- > > 60 cal. smooth bore trade gun, flintlock, green river forge lock and barrel. > Sitting fox and all. -- > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 22:17:29 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale Linda, I copied and pasted your post to my friend. Hope he contacts you. Capt. Lahti' - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Holley" To: Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 1:05 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Buckskinner items for sale > I am going to have a for sale site for tipi owners on my web site. If you get > your friend in touch with me, I can put it up and see what happens. Just talk > to someone tonight who was interested in a tipi. If he has a photo of it up, > that is even better. > > Linda Holley > http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 08:48:48 -0600 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Period ropes & cordage I have a machine for twisting cordage made out of wood ---has a handel and all you do is rotate one bar and it twists the cordage---contact me offline and i will be glad to make you a sketch with dimentions---will make up to about 1/2 rope pretty easy--- hawk hawknest4@juno.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 21:19:09 MST From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: mix blood tipi covers OK you have caught me with out some of reach papers. walt, i belive that the artis i was speaking of is in the papers in the brief case that you have. also why don,t you, just go a head and send that artical i read you from that past metis news letter to the list. working off the top of my head ,the swiss artist peter rindisbacher done some work on the metis also he had some on the buffalo metis. angla, i'm i in the date peiod.? also the history society of minnesota holds some pictures of metis camps on the praires showing both hides and cavas tipis,look close at these.are there flags flying from poles? i am sorry if i step on some canadian toe's, did not mean to. most of my research is on the montana metis. just that,with the different metis rodee's or pow wows i have taken part in the metis history seens to tie in ,in both countrys. having been in buckskinning from 60 s and the history part, i have found that the metis history seems to be a different world. you must remimber in look at some history (writen) . some was held back by the translator then by author to keep the person from trouble. also you,when trying to redo history, should take the human side. after dwelling in books and interviewing metis people. the metis were here and did leave thier tracks early in history. i given my ref, time and agian . bythe way it is a loaded keg. w _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #675 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.