From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #678 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, November 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 678 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: aka Bead Shooter -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: aka Bead Shooter -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: shaker stoves -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       MtMan-List: dogs & r'vous -       RE: MtMan-List: Better than a poker game with someone else's mone y -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: Don King, Master Gunsmith -       Re: MtMan-List: Better than a poker game with someone else's money -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: To Diane on the trail of the wild Megwich. . . . -       RE: MtMan-List: Don King, Master Gunsmith -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: dogs & r'vous -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: For a change of pace, Happy Thanksgiving; ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:39:14 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi Linda one thing that one should keep in mind is to the Native America back then many things the Europeans had to offer had no soul because it had no life before. Canvas would be one of these things. Especially when you consider it is inferior to a hide cover when it comes to living year around in one. The hide cover would keep you warmer so why would they want canvas. the only reason I could see is out of need do to the lack of Buffalo hides. Either because of all the hides being all trade off and the numbers of Buffalo falling off. That is why we don't start seeing Canvas covers until the late 1850s. For some Tribes it was not until they were put on the Reservation that they had to start using canvas. Granted Canvas is lighter but when it comes to warmth it is no match to leather. That's my thoughts Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:04:51 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi Good thoughts, but why was there such a pride of ownership put on having a cloth cover tipis in the early 1850s' when buffalo was still plentiful. It was a big deal to own such a lodge. Lodges from cloth, notice I do not say canvas, was very expensive and a larger lodge could be made without weighing so much. Ever pick up a buffalo hide cover for a 17' lodge? I have several photos of tribes with cloth cover and they are not on a reservation. To solve this problem or point of view I am still looking for more documentation in writings and original pictures. Linda Holley Tipi Wastewin "Good Lodge Woman" GazeingCyot@cs.com wrote: > Linda one thing that one should keep in mind is to the Native America back > then many things the Europeans had to offer had no soul because it had no > life before. Canvas would be one of these things. Especially when you > consider it is inferior to a hide cover when it comes to living year around > in one. The hide cover would keep you warmer so why would they want canvas. > the only reason I could see is out of need do to the lack of Buffalo hides. > Either because of all the hides being all trade off and the numbers of > Buffalo falling off. That is why we don't start seeing Canvas covers until > the late 1850s. For some Tribes it was not until they were put on the > Reservation that they had to start using canvas. Granted Canvas is lighter > but when it comes to warmth it is no match to leather. > That's my thoughts > Crazy Cyot > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 18:51:51 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi In a message dated 11/21/00 3:41:47 PM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: << Tribes it was not until they were put on the Reservation that they had to start using canvas. Granted Canvas is lighter but when it comes to warmth it is no match to leather. That's my thoughts >> You bring up some good points, Cyot. I'm of the belief that canvas became more popular because you could build a very large lodge with it being so light in weight. If the plains folk are anything like my wife, the bigger the house, the better... Also easier to set up, and nice and bright inside. Haveing said that, I'll trade you my 20' canvas tipi for your 14' buffalo hide tipi.... Ymos, Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:14:42 -0500 From: "Dennis Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Dogs are like Children.. Okay if quiet & restrained and they also are tender meat for the pot when they are young. D "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.." - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:36:09 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: aka Bead Shooter Hallo the List, I'm recently back from an overnight in Helena Montana, and got to spend the afternoon with Ghosting Wolf (Gene Hickman). A finer Mountaineer, you'd be hard pressed to find! He picked me up at the hotel, and we spent some time at a gun show, checked out the baby bears at Fish and Game, (he works there), headed out to the F&G hunter check point and looked at some nice elk and deer that had been taken. From there we drove over to Gene's home where he whipped up a meal fit for a starvin mountain man. "Chicken Fried" elk steaks, home made bread, fresh garden potatoes, home canned apples in sugar syrup...... I ate like a pig! Over dinner, Gene told the story on how he shot a pretty nice Mule deer recently with his flintlock. Seems when he left home, he grabbed his shootin bag and gun, and headed up into the hills behind his place. After putting the sneak on a nice buck, he got off a nice shot and got a fair hit. Upon reaching into his bag to reload, he found that there were no round balls to be found! (they fell out at home) With it getting dark, and snowing pretty good, he decided to track the deer and try to finish it off with his knife... Well....needless to say, the Mulely had other ideas and fear and better judgment kept Gene from getting kilt. The next plan involved Gene removing his favorite large BEADS from his jacket and pouch, and loading his rifle...using his T-shirt for patching! LOL! I won't go into the details but "Bead Shooter" was near outta beads by the time the deer went under...had tears in my eyes to hear him tell it. Thanks Gene, for a great afternoon, a great meal, and a great story! I sure enjoyed it.... Ymos, Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 21:25:50 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi Linda you said but why was there such a pride of ownership put on having a cloth cover tipis in the early 1850s' when buffalo was still plentiful. It was a big deal to own such a lodge. Linda where are you getting this Information from. Just wondering what's your source? You said Lodges from cloth, notice I do not say canvas, was very expensive and a larger lodge could be made without weighing so much. This is a twenty century mind set bigger is not always better. The bigger the lodge the colder the lodge and yes I have picked up the cover of an 18' buffalo hide tipis it weighed around a hundred and fifty pounds. The 14' elk hide tipis I helped set up once weighed around a one hundred pounds. I did not say all the tribes I said some of the tribes did not start using cloth until they were put on the reservation. One or two pictures of a few cloth tipis does not make wide spread use of them neither does the sale of enough yardage of cloth to make a tipis. I've got a question for you, have you ever been out in your large tipis when it was 20 below or colder? Well, I have when it was 45 below in a 16' and at the time I wished it was only 14' or smaller. Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 22:04:37 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Richard James you need to read Ferris Life in the Rocky Mountains Page 130. He talks about a trapper by the name of Milman going out to check his traps with his dog and how the dog tried to warn him of an ambush by some Indians. Seems some of them trappers did have dogs as pets and they were of some use besides the eating of them. Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 23:47:01 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi > > but why was there such a pride of ownership put on having a > cloth cover tipis in the early 1850s' when buffalo was still plentiful. It > was > a big deal to own such a lodge. > Linda where are you getting this Information from. Just wondering what's your > source? > One of my sources can be found at: > http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com/covers.htm > > You said Lodges from cloth, notice I do not say canvas, > was very expensive and a larger lodge could be made without weighing so much. > This is a twenty century mind set bigger is not always better. What makes this a 20th. cent. mind set? Can it be a woman's' set or how about having a Hudson bay blanket as compared to a nice ever lasting elk robe. Or lets get that flint lock over the old standard bow and arrow. How about a steel knife compared to a flint knife. You can only compare one to the other on what you might prefer or hold more valuable. Women wanted cloth dresses and blankets to that old buffalo robe and brain tanned hide for a dress. What does make something better than another item of the same use? And can a writer put this down on paper the feelings and reasons of the time period as to why people did things without asking that person. I can only document from what I have read and seen and there is still so much more to learn. I keep learning from this group of "fine" gentlemen all the time. > The bigger > the lodge the colder the lodge And then what about spring, summer and fall? It isn't always winter. Didn't have to worry about heating the place all the time. Here is where we start getting into insulation, wind breaks and ozans. And many times they camped without a lining. > and yes I have picked up the cover of an 18' > buffalo hide tipis it weighed around a hundred and fifty pounds. The 14' elk > hide tipis I helped set up once weighed around a one hundred pounds. Heavy isn't it. > > I did not say all the tribes I said some of the tribes did not start using > cloth until they were put on the reservation. That is true, but you did bring in the decline of the buffalo a little early? And you imply that canvas was "mostly" a reservation item by your statement. > One or two pictures of a few > cloth tipis does not make wide spread use of them neither does the sale of > enough yardage of cloth to make a tipis. I do have many more than one or two photos of the early cloth tipis as I stated. And there is the documentation of large amounts of "cloth" being sold. Most of this I am still researching for my web site and a future book. So if I do not go into all the details here, pardon me while I am still gathering information. > > I've got a question for you, have you ever been out in your large tipis when > it was 20 below or colder? Well, I have when it was 45 below in a 16' and at > the time I wished it was only 14' or smaller. > You are right that I have not camped in a Large tipi at 20 degrees below zero, > but I have lived in Alaska at much colder temperatures. I have a very good > idea what it would be like from my living and camping experiences there. I own > a 17' for the reason of heating and not wanting to carry the "kitchen" sink. > Also own a 10' for some real cozy camping. I can put a fire in it and stay > nice and warm. Linda Holley.....you know, I like my computer over my old typewriter and the computer is bigger. I like my Ford Explorer over my old Toyota Tercel and the Ford is bigger, uses more gas (to keep me warm) and has Firestone tires. (So much for the recall) and I live in a stupid state than cannot pin prick a voting ballot and then count them. So much for the education of the Florida resident. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 00:17:47 EST From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: aka Bead Shooter SWcushing@aol.com writes: > Thanks Gene, for a great afternoon, a great meal, and a great story! I sure > enjoyed it....>> When I saw this "Bead Shooter" subject line I was afraid to open the e-mail. You were much kinder and gentler in the retelling of the story than I thought you would be. Thanks. My lead ball had broken three ribs, went through both lungs and the liver. It was getting dark, snowing hard and deer was moving into heavy ponderosa pine scrub. Never lost a deer and I wasn't going to loose this one. I stuck with him and he was stumbling and falling down. It actually laid down and let me get up to 15-25 feet when I shot it with the beads. It was dying but I was afraid of loosing it in the dark, snow and heavy cover. Magpie forgot to tell you that I shot a rock at the deer, before the beads. Deer was 50 feet and rock went right over its back. Can't get any accuracy out of these rocks around here. The first bead was a black skunk bead, around .50 cal. and fit pretty tight with 3 or 4 patches. It penetrated the neck at an angle and went in about 4 inches and chipped a piece off the vertebrate. The next load was two red white-heart beads (8mm) broke the lower jaw and went through the mouth. All these shots were at about 25 feet with 60-80 grains of fffg. Had to use T-shirt and some leaves for patching on the smaller beads. Everytime I hit the deer it would jerk it's head from the impact and get up and take off at a stumbling slow run falling down every 4 or 5 steps. It would go 40-50 yards and lay down. Then I would sneak up and shoot it again. It was not pretty and I would not recommend it. I finally killed it, but I had already cut a stick about 3"-4" long, sharpened it, and whittled it down to slightly smaller than .54 cal. That was my next shot AKA Private Shannon on the Corps of Discovery. Two things I learned: use brass beads for decoration on your horn and pouch, and loads beads with the hole facing out. YMOS Bead Shooter - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 01:04:16 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs In a message dated 11/21/0 08:05:23 PM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: << did have dogs as pets and they were of some use besides the eating of them. Crazy Cyot>> Crazy - let me ask you . . . 1828, you are in Crow country by yourself. Do you want a barking dog hanging around your camp RJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:16:54 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs If he was braking at a crow Indian to let me know that they were there. You bet, better then getting arrow in the back. Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:40:10 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs I forgot to mention if I had the dog I would not be alone. I would have one more set of eyes and good nose to help me watch the camp and my back plus have a good horse guard at night. Crazy but no fool Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:49:17 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: shaker stoves On a couple occasions I have seen owners of tipees use tin cans with both ends cut out and lined in a trench from outside to the fire pit. this provided a source of fresh air to the fire and when covered with dirt did not distract from appearance. Dunno if the indians did anything like that but it is a good idea for safety. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:54:52 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi Linda every one of the things you mentioned did have some improvements over what it replaced. When it comes to wet weather nothing can beat wool. When that woman got that Hudson bay blanket she still had her self a buffalo robe for when it got good and cold to keep warm with. I would prefer to live in a house made out of loges, rock or brick, they are warm in the winter and cooler in the summer but they cost more to build now. So I live in a framed house. What I'm get at is by the 1850s the price of beaver was down but the price of buffalo was up. How were they going to get all the other things they wanted like you mentioned? With the western migration of whites The price of cloth had to be cheeper then it was in years past. So for them it would have cost them more to have a hide tipis. Something to think a bout. Here in Idaho and in most of the rocky mountain state winters are longer then all the other season put to gather. So I would want a warm house to live wouldn't you? I know how women like to stay warm so I think that would be high on the list for reasons to keep a hide tipis. It was also women's job to keep it warm by gathering the wood as well as put it up. Which do you think they spent more time doing? Buffalo started to deduce in numbers faster on the West side of the Rockies. It was mention as early as the late 1830s by men like Osborn Russell and others. So I do not think that by say they were on the decline by the 1850s I'm putting it to early. Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:02:35 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: dogs & r'vous Linda, many years ago at the National Shoots in Friendship there were two serious incidents with dogs. One involved a five year old girl who had her face very badly torn up by a dog. This triggered a series of rules restricting dogs at any NMLRA event. These were very tragic happenings and I can understand if any of that legacy of caution regarding dogs at NMLRA events still lingers. I like dogs but have no patience with loose animals or their owners. I have lost valuable cattle to so-called 'family pets'. If one is chasing my cows or calves I shoot it. No second chance or appeals. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:17:17 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Better than a poker game with someone else's mone y Richard James asked "So what is a Megwich?" It is Anishinabe for "Thank you". Oh, in case you haven't run into it, the Anishinabe people are often called Ojibwa by the whites - it is the predominant language group in my part of the country, that being Manitoba and northwestern Ontario. My Anishinabe language skills are rudimentary - just enough to get myself in trouble on Reserve because I THINK I know what was said but what I thought was said, wasn't what was actually said. Confused yet? The other I occasionally use is "Na-ya-whey" which is the same thing in Seneca. I once was told how to say thank you in Miniconju but it was a 5 minute speech and be darned if I can remember ANY of it!!! keep warm.... Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 07:21:39 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Thanks all for the comments about dogs in camp. I hate dog poo on my shoes too. I hope that a plastic bag hidden in a possibles bag is a permissible sin - don't fancy picking that stuff up with my fingers. Loved the term "B.L.T." - Black Lab on Toast!!! If my dog were not well behaved, I wouldn't have her in camp - probably wouldn't have her at home too. Whether dogs, horses, or kids, if it isn't under control, somebody needs a whack on the back of the head. Thanks again! Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 06:52:35 -0800 From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Klahowya My Friends, RJ you make two wrong assumptions in you statements against mountain men and dogs. First there are 1st hand accounts of them having dogs. I'm not saying everyone had a dog along. I am sure that there were just as many people around then that did not like dogs around as there are now. Second not all dogs are barkers. I have a short hair that does not bark much at all. He tells me someone or something is around by his actions. And if you are not supposed to be around my place, he would just as soon come up on you quiet and get a chunk of you. If you are lucky you might hear him growl before he hits you. On the other hand if I am around and indicate by my actions that all is OK, he will lick you and play till your arms fall off. Since you are insisting on basing your assertions on your opinion of how dogs act, then here is my humble opinion.....I believe dogs THEN were better behaved and taught not to bark unless necessary, as a matter of survival, whether on the trail or at the cabin. Unlike the dogs of today that must usually make a ruckus to get there lazy owners away from the television set to spend time with them. Again a general statement and not intended to include all dogs or owners. YMOHS PoorBoy - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:22:45 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Don King, Master Gunsmith Walt, I just spotted a beautiful swivel breech rifle by Don King in "Contemporary Makers of Muzzle Loading Firearms" while doing a little research for a feller. Is he Mike King's dad, that I met with you, awhile back? And if he is, does Mike have one of his fathers guns I could talk him out of? I'll send over whiskey...wimmins... or whatever it takes to get one...... Ymos, Magpie at chilly Ft Vancouver - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:30:59 EST From: Wind1838@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Better than a poker game with someone else's money Diane: Don't worry about that first Rendezvous. It doesn't matter what you do or how hard you try, you might as well just accept that it (and all those to come) are a learning situation. No one on God's earth could have made more blunders than I did at my first Rendezvous on the Wind River (Riverton) in 1996. When I think of it I still cringe and then, last week, just as I thought I had almost recovered from the dark memory . . . I ran into a man that was at that first Rendezvous and he has a videotape of me standing in the center of the circle at opening ceremony in all my glorious historical inaccuracy. But damn, it was one good time and every time after that has shined even brighter. Just jump in and start making memories. You will never regret the journey, even if you regret your mistakes. Fair weather to you! Laura Glise - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:39:22 EST From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs In a message dated 11/21/00 10:05:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << Crazy - let me ask you . . . 1828, you are in Crow country by yourself. Do you want a barking dog hanging around your camp RJ >> nope... but wouldn't a WELL-TRAINED one to alert you of sneakers comin' up on you, help retrieve downed game from the water, flush critters out of brush, etc. be a nice thing to have? Barney - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 11:43:48 -0700 From: Buck Conner Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > Anyway the dog was killed in a gruesome way for food before they were too many > days along the winter trail. Again - I don't believe Mt. Men were much for > having dogs, barking not being an asset when stealth is a way of life. > > Richard James Plus they aren't bad eatin' Dick, have had several at the Browning "Holy Smokes", served as part of the doings (we where the only two whites per say, of the 1500 native American quests), so you kind of go with the flow. Later, Buck Conner Resource & Documentation for: ________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT __________________________________HRD__ Visit these sites at: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/ ________________ Aux Aliments de Pays! ___ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 13:55:45 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs In a message dated 11/22/0 04:20:32 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: << . . . .If he was braking . . . . >> O.K. . . . "Braking" . . . I'll go along with that. Barking at a magpie when you are alone and practicing stealth and Crows are plentiful in their own land. . . . Maybe that is why the "dog man" mentioned does not make much of an appearance in the annals but other-than-dog-keepers went on to make history. Maybe?? RJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:05:38 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: To Diane on the trail of the wild Megwich. . . . Diane - you take me too seriously but thank you for the seriously gracious explanation of the word. I have talked with Ojibwa on the (a) res in Ontario and I had a close friend from Minnesota who was Ojibwa (which he said was the same as Chippawa, and so did the Canadians), but they never used the "A" word to identify their nation. PROBABLY because they figured I had all the information I could handle and they didn't want to further confuse me. ALL, however, were like you - friendly and gracious. And for that, let me say, "Megwich", Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 12:08:56 -0700 From: "Walt Foster" Subject: RE: MtMan-List: Don King, Master Gunsmith Yes Magpie. The Mike King you met is the son of the famous ML maker, Don King. Cold over your way? Still good hunting weather over here. Have not seen much action among my friends since the opening week. Maybe some time when you get over to Billings. I can remake the introduction. Walt Original Rocky Mountain College 1836-1837 Clark Bottom Rendezvous Yellowstone Canoe Camp On the Lewis & Clark Trail Park City, Montana - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 14:17:55 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs In a message dated 11/22/0 06:22:42 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: <