From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #679 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Friday, November 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 679 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: For a change of pace, Happy Thanksgiving; -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: RE: To Diane on the trail of the wild Megwich. . . . -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       MtMan-List: dogs -       MtMan-List: Happy Thanksgiving -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: Thanksgiving -       Re: MtMan-List: dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       MtMan-List: Thanksgiving Hunt -       Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing -       Re: MtMan-List: For a change of pace, Happy Thanksgiving; -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs -       Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 10:41:11 -0700 From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: For a change of pace, Happy Thanksgiving; Another interesting Lewis & Clark Book- (Back to that question of a week ago)- "Lewis and Clark among the Indians" by James P Ronda......ISBN 0-8032-8929-4 A day late, and a dollar short, I know...but Buck's posting reminded me. Happy Thanksgiving to all. We'll be celebrating with a buffalo roast.... can hardly wait. hardtack - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 00:14:56 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs If I may run the risk of sounding like a greenhorn...I would like to interject a thought. The dog would not be a life-risk in Crow country. Wasn;'t it the Crow who prided themselves on never having killed a white man? They would, however, steal him blind of horses, plunder and anything else. Wouldn't a dog be a boon to give you "early warning" of any Crow or other "boogers" sneaking up around your camp? Can't say the same thing if it were Blackfeet country, however!!!! - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:09:52 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: RE: To Diane on the trail of the wild Megwich. . . . Richard wrote "Diane - you take me too seriously but thank you for the seriously gracious explanation of the word." Golly, I never even felt that leg getting longer...... Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:31:01 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Well, I have heard all the anti-dog sentiments and I agree with every one of them! A well behaved and loyal dog is an ally and a companion ...... a poorly behaved or unreliable dog is SUPPER! On the other side of the time warp (Y2K), I live in an areas inhabited by deer, bear, timber wolves, foxes, coyotes, and cougar (all seen within 2 miles of me within the past two years) - keep hoping to see a moose in the yard - I LOVE moose (cooked) - and I live with a young hound who has a nose like no other, eyesight and hearing better than my 51-year-old carcass can manage. Even though my hound lives in the house with me, she is almost always aware of any unexpected goings-on before I am and gives me the heads-up. Sometimes she tips me off to activities that I can't even verify until daylight the next day. She also tells me whether the activity is small animal, large animal, dangerous animal, or human by the way she reacts and what she does about it. In all the oral history I have heard and much of what I have read, I don't know if there was ever a Native community without dogs. Their "early warning system" was much valued to protect the village from surprise attack (just try sneaking up on a pack of dogs and silencing them all at once!). I know that dogs were a part of Iroquois life (there's a ceremony around the sacrifice of a white dog) and that on the prairies they were THE pack animal before the horse. The dogs packed everything from personal goods to tipi poles. Thanks all, it has been an interesting chin-wag. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 07:47:00 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi Sorry fellas, I think Linda is on the right track here (from what little I know). You're living on the bald-a## prairie, following the herds of Buffalo to feed your family, trying to stay away from your enemies, and always "taking to ground" in some sheltered spot for the winter. Your original form of transporting your goods from place to place was dogs. Later, if you were lucky, you had a horse or two. The factor that limited how much stuff you could have was WEIGHT. You could have no more household goods than what you could pack on the backs of the family and whatever critters you had - and everything had to be quickly packed and quick on the trail. A cloth tipi (for the majority of the year) would be to die for - light, small when folded, durable (dries fast, not inclined to rot, if dry). You could either travel a lot lighter or carry a larger home for the same weight. Come winter, there were so many ways of improving the "insulation" that I am not sure the cover is a significant factor anymore. Evergreen boughs laid against the outside, grass stuffed behind the liner, a good sheltered location, a windbreak, etc. In 20th Century terms, I don't think there is a lot of difference between the R value of a tanned hide and a layer of heavy cloth. Were it me chasing Buffalo thru the prairie grass, I'd be travelling in a cloth covered tipi and have my hide cover stashed at my wintering place. That's all for now..... Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:01:00 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: dogs Linda Holley wrote, First, Linda, I find it very sick that you would "love" to see a dog maim or kill a cow. One the incidents in which I lost cattle involved a medium sized dog that attacked a cow and calf while in the birth process. The calf was halfway out and the dog started chewing on its face. The terrified cow began running with the hapless calf hanging out. I arrived only to see the cow running, calf hanging out and the dog hanging onto the still alive but mortally wounded calf. It was days before I could corral the cow with the calf still not delivered but dead inside the mother who was now seriously infected. I lost a valuable purebred registered cow and a calf with potential as a champion bull. Aside from the senseless loss of the animals and their suffering, it cost me thousands of dollars. I have treated sick and wounded animals and people but have never seen a sight so disgusting before in my life as that cow running with her half-born calf hanging out and the dog trying to eat the calf on the run. I bet you would have "loved" to be there to see that. I eventually shot the dog and would have done unspeakable things to the owner if the law allowed. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 06:31:20 -0800 From: "Jay Geisinger" Subject: MtMan-List: Happy Thanksgiving Klahowya My Friends, I Hope this writing finds everyone in good spirits and health. May the Great Spirit bless each and every one and may we all be Thankful for said blessings. Happy Thanksgiving my friends. YMOS PoorBoy - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 08:20:27 -0600 From: trapper@cillnet.com (Brad Everett) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Yer close , but the way I heard it was they said they had never taken a white mans SCALP! Big differance to the Indian's way of thinking. Trapper, Trek'n through time, backwards! - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 11:14 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs > If I may run the risk of sounding like a greenhorn...I would like to > interject a thought. The dog would not be a life-risk in Crow country. > Wasn;'t it the Crow who prided themselves on never having killed a white man? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:33:36 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: Thanksgiving From my home to yours... may all of you have a safe and happy Thanksgiving. Let us pause here a moment to give thanks to those who came before us... who opened up this wonderful land... and to those who sacraficed their all so that we may live as we do today. On this day, and always... may the Spirit of the Wolf watch over you all and guide your steps.... Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 09:42:38 EST From: TrapRJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dogs - --part1_d.cabf692.274e86de_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buzzards do the same thing, and when one was shot picking the eyes out of a calf in birth, the shooter was arrested. Buzzards are protected. Lions, wolfes, hawks, owls, can be shot when destroying livestock, but I guest not buzzards. He was arrested and win or lose it cost money to defend. I have trapped many a dog that was destroying cattle, but never one as small as a yorkie. If we can't laugh we might as well give up. TrapRJoe - --part1_d.cabf692.274e86de_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Buzzards do the same thing, and when one was shot picking the eyes out of a
calf in birth, the shooter was arrested.  Buzzards are protected.  Lions,
wolfes, hawks, owls, can be shot when destroying livestock, but I guest not
buzzards.  He was arrested and win or lose it cost money to defend.  I have
trapped many a dog that was destroying cattle, but never one as small as a
yorkie.  If we can't laugh we might as well give up.
                                          TrapRJoe - --part1_d.cabf692.274e86de_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:33:18 EST From: Elkflea@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Am just curious if the Crows are still a-thieven ur horses n plunder? flea - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:43:34 EST From: Elkflea@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: dogs Last year, I came home from work to find that some stray dog had ripped the utters off my favorite goat. The size of the dog isn't so much the question here as a chihuahua or two could have inflicted the same death upon her as could have a larger hound. The trouble is the instinctive nature of dogs and particularly when they pack up in groups. In my county signs are numerous signs are posted along roadways informing dog owners that their hounds may be shot on site if disturbing livestock, ie open season. Feral cats are my pet peave, however, due to the great numbers of wild baby ducks, quail, pheasants and other small critters they kill for 'sport' . I've lost many dozens of young free range run baby chicks to these buggers. In all they seem to be pretty poor at rodent control. I know there are a few good 'ratters' out there but they seem to be rare. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:22:32 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas covered tipi In a message dated 11/23/0 06:48:06 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: <> It surprises me that with all the dialogue about fabric/hide tipis, no one makes reference to the books by my friends, the Laubins (gone under - but still my friends) They cite fabric as not only being lighter and less bulky (same weight - more living space) but of greater duration, since hide tipis lasted only a year and fabric about 5 years and MUCH less labor going into them. They also talk about insulation. So far as heating, tipi heating is radiant. I have found that in the coldest weather a small twig fire is not only cheery but the heat bounces off the liner and back into the lodge proper. I recently spent some in-depth research with priviledged Shoshone material and learned that they built brush windbreaks in a circle around their lodges. Many of what they called tipis were not the hide nor the fabric variety but were wheat-grass mats laid tipi-fashion over the typical lodge pole cone. Probably these would more correctly be called wikki-ups. These were mixed in some camps with both hide and fabric lodges. Not my choice, but it is true history. Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 12:31:58 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs In a message dated 11/23/0 08:34:11 AM, Elkflea@aol.com writes: <> I havn't met that many down here as this is Shoshone country, but of the ones I have known I couldn't hope to know nicer people. In some ways they may seen irresponsible by OUR standards, but they have their own values and rate as high on the honor scale and happiness achieved scale as anyone R. James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 13:49:23 -0800 From: "atthesea" Subject: MtMan-List: Era Clothing Happy Thanksgiving the List: Wondering if any of you can recommend a site to search to purchase some appropriate clothing for some mountain man apparel? Thanks, Ghostrider in rainy and cool Coos Bay, Oregon - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 17:28:02 -0600 From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing Leather or cloth? - ----- Original Message ----- From: atthesea To: Mountain Man List Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 3:49 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Era Clothing > Happy Thanksgiving the List: > Wondering if any of you can recommend a site to search to purchase some > appropriate clothing for some mountain man apparel? > Thanks, > Ghostrider in rainy and cool Coos Bay, Oregon > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:32:00 EST From: LivingInThePast@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing enjoy the lookin' Ghostrider. and to you and the entire list: HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!! Jas. Townsend & Son, Inc. Home Page ClearWater Hats Coyote's Capotes Canadian Boot/Bottes Sauvages Panther Primitives Hatcrafters Home Page Dixie Gun Works Barn Today's word of the day: can you say FLORIDUH? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:23:48 -0800 From: "atthesea" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing Doug: Maybe a little of both...maybe leather pants, cloth other stuff...??? Don't really have a written in stone plan...just wanna look at some stuff to help make up my somewhat turkey-hazed mind. Thanks, Ghostrider - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 16:25:48 -0800 From: "atthesea" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing Hey Living in the Past: There is an evenings worth of sites to drool, (drool currently composed of turkey, cranberry sauce, etc, but drool nonetheless). Thanks, Ghostrider - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:19:16 -0800 (PST) From: hsteven-pepke@webtv.net (H Steven Pepke) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing Ghostrider, I've had good luck with a company called Twin Otter Trading, in Kent, WA. They even have stuff for "King Size" guys, very high quality, should last for many years. Tim and Juanita are good people to deal with. http://twootter.freeservers.com HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!! True Bear Issaquah, WA - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 22:06:13 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Just curious...how might one rate a modern Crow as "irresponsible" by our standards? Not so much HOW...but in what vein of thought? I have a curiosity about tribal cultures and their differing ways of approaching life. (Started when I had to deal with an asian in-law and led from there to Native American tribal cultures). Thanks for the info. - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:05:04 -0800 From: Lee Newbill Subject: MtMan-List: Thanksgiving Hunt Just a short note on a wee little jaunt through the woods of North Idaho. Picked up my flinter, threw on a capote and my bags and horns, doubled checked to make sure my small bag of balls was indeed in the shooting bag with the extra flints, and headed out the door just at legal shooting light (making sure that Jade the over-helpful Brittany Spaniel was locked up). Walked up the hill through my first pasture gate, fought my way valiantly through the mob of protesting ponies who stated in no uncertain that it indeed WAS feeding time. Anyway, after successfully running the gauntlet of my pushy hoofed friends, I headed up the mountain. About a 100 yards up the hill, I hear the warning snort of a whitetail, and there, sure enough, were four deer about 100 yards further up the hill, but obscured by light growth and a bit of a fog. I raised the rifle, then put it back down after not being able to get a clear view of any of the deer. The deer still hadn't moved, just milled a bit in front of me, and they hadn't winded me as the wind was coming from my right front quarter. Sneaking was out of the question given the crunchy snow underfoot, so I moved at a slight angle off to my right, which would bring me in another 25 yards to a good shooting position. Now keep in mind, the deer still hadn't fled, and while alert, were not sure of what to do. Then... unexpectedly, another warning snort, loud and authoritative from my backside. The deer, now sure there was a predator afoot, didn't tarry this time, they fled through the woods and were gone in an instant. Disappointed, I turned to verify the author of the warning snort that had come from behind me, and had scattered my meat for the winter. There, on a small rise, where he could see me but not smell me, stood my prize Appaloosa colt, 7 months old and attempting to look like the herd stallion... nostrils a flaring and staring at me wild eyed. For a fleeting moment, I toyed with the idea of a freezer full of tasty young horse, but opted out of it for fear of the wrath of me women folk. The rest of the day was a nice walk, if devoid of any game. The moral of the story..... Feed the bloody horses first, then go afield. Regards and Happy Thanksgiving from the northwoods of Idaho Lee Newbill - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 21:12:08 -0800 From: Lee Newbill Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Era Clothing H Steven Pepke wrote: > Ghostrider, > I've had good luck with a company called Twin Otter Trading, in Kent, I would second that. A husband and wife team, I've a shirt from them. High quality, reasonable price, and good folks to deal with. Lee Newbill of North Idaho - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:17:19 -0700 From: "Daniel L. Smith" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: For a change of pace, Happy Thanksgiving; > THIS IS A MESSAGE IN 'MIME' FORMAT. Your mail reader does not support MIME. > Please read the first section, which is plain text, and ignore the rest. - --Interpart.Boundary.11.22.33.M2Y13129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey gang, Just got in from hunting in a special season, private property hunt for white tails, got a nice 8 point - eastern count. Logged on to what's going on and saw Buck's message about L&C - Corps of Discovery boys at Thanksgiving, good stuff. We don't know how lucky we have it when compared to thier hardships. But would still have liked to been with them. Happy Late Thanksgiving. Later, Daniel L. "Concho" Smith Research & Documentation for: _____________________________________________ HISTORICAL RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT ________________________________________HRD__ Visit these period camp sites at: http://pages.about.com/dlsmith/ http://pages.about.com/conner1/ http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ _____________________________________________ Sign up for a free About Email account at http://About.com - --Interpart.Boundary.11.22.33.M2Y13129 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="OriginalBody.htm" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OriginalBody.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: OriginalBody.htm PCFkb2N0eXBlIGh0bWwgcHVibGljICItLy93M2MvL2R0ZCBodG1sIDQuMCB0cmFuc2l0aW9u YWwvL2VuIj4NCjxodG1sPg0KDQo8YmxvY2txdW90ZSBUWVBFPUNJVEU+PGEgaHJlZj0iaHR0 cDovL3d3dy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20vfmRydWR5L210bWFuL21haWxsaXN0Lmh0bWwiPkZvcg0K YSBjaGFuZ2Ugb2YgcGFjZSwgSGFwcHkgVGhhbmtzZ2l2aW5nOzwvYT48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+ 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Bell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Well said Jin-o-ta-ka, "Best, Dianne" wrote: > Well, I have heard all the anti-dog sentiments and I agree with every one of > them! A well behaved and loyal dog is an ally and a companion ...... a > poorly behaved or unreliable dog is SUPPER! I completely agree. I would only like to add the notionadd that the respect we want to get from everyone else is exactly the same level and kind of respect we must then give everyone. If a 'vous setting has lots of folks attending, and even a minority are not dog friendly folks, seems to me that the only dog welcome by all would be an invisible one, or one at least not seen nor heard. Wok yer dog? Any favorite recipes? > ..... and that on the prairies they were THE pack animal > before the horse. The dogs packed everything from personal goods to tipi > poles. Recall the Sign for dog: right hand extended, palm down, thumb and fingers closed in except first and second fingers extended out and somewhat down in a V shape, and this V drawn to the right across in front of the speaker to indicate the animal that everybody recognized as the dragger of the travois (sp?). That would only work as a universally recognized sign across the plains if everybody was particularly familiar with the dogs hauling everything. I get a big charge out of how old the sign language was, that in this instance it pre-dates the arrival of horses in the plains. Clearly the use of sign is far older than that, but what we know of it today is limited to what several Army officers wrote about, by way of instructing their successors in the sign they used. Might consider re-naming it Army Sign Language. Thanks for hearing me, on this day of thanks. Heron a lurker hereabouts - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 09:52:47 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs Hey... I ate dog when I was overseas... (Nam)... if fixed right... not too bad... *grins* Puppy best... Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 10:08:29 EST From: Htorr@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs - --part1_c1.905fe5f.274fde6d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I like that term Army Sign Language. Maybe it could be called ASL for short. I am not sure if that term has been used before. Tom Orr > > Recall the Sign for dog: right hand extended, palm down, thumb and fingers > closed in except first and second fingers extended out and somewhat down in > a V > shape, and this V drawn to the right across in front of the speaker to > indicate > the animal that everybody recognized as the dragger of the travois (sp?). > That > would only work as a universally recognized sign across the plains if > everybody > was particularly familiar with the dogs hauling everything. I get a big > charge > out of how old the sign language was, that in this instance it pre-dates the > arrival of horses in the plains. Clearly the use of sign is far older than > that, but what we know of it today is limited to what several Army officers > wrote about, by way of instructing their successors in the sign they used. > Might consider re-naming it Army Sign Language. > > Thanks for hearing me, on this day of thanks. > > > Heron > a lurker hereabouts > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > Return-Path: > Received: from rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227]) > by air-zd03.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:44:14 > -0500 > Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by > rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 03:43:55 -0500 > Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) > id 13zESC-0006zT-00 > for hist_text-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:43:32 -0700 > Received: from [207.217.121.49] (helo=scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net) > by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) > id 13zESA-0006zO-00 > for hist_text@lists.xmission.com; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 01:43:30 -0700 > Received: from earthlink.net (1Cust192.tnt2.portland2.or.da.uu.net > [63.42.160.192]) > by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id > AAA02198 > for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:43:28 -0800 > (PST) > Message-ID: <3A1E2A3A.CFE31248@earthlink.net> > Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:43:39 -0800 > From: "Gary A. Bell" > X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) > X-Accept-Language: en > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rendezvous and Dogs > References: <9BC8CAC649FCD211ABE90008C7089570039B0535@mail02.hydro.mb.ca> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com > > > - --part1_c1.905fe5f.274fde6d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi!

     I like that term Army Sign Language.  Maybe it could be called ASL for
short.  I am not sure if that term has been used before.

    Tom Orr

Recall the Sign for dog:  right hand extended, palm down, thumb and fingers
closed in except first and second fingers extended out and somewhat down in
a V
shape, and this V drawn to the right across in front of the speaker to
indicate
the animal that everybody recognized as the dragger of the travois (sp?).  
That
would only work as a universally recognized sign across the plains if
everybody
was particularly familiar with the dogs hauling everything.  I get a big
charge
out of how old the sign language was, that in this instance it pre-dates the
arrival of horses in the plains.   Clearly the use of sign is far older than
that, but what we know of it today is limited to what several Army officers
wrote about, by way of instructing their successors in the sign they used.
Might consider re-naming it Army Sign Language.

Thanks for hearing me, on this day of thanks.


Heron
a lurker hereabouts


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Message-ID: <3A1E2A3A.CFE31248@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 00:43:39 -0800
From: "Gary A. Bell" <microptics@earthlink.net>
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