From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #694 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Tuesday, December 19 2000 Volume 01 : Number 694 In this issue: -       MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Fw: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Re: Fw: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Re: Fw: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       MtMan-List: fur for warmth -       MtMan-List: Warmth of fur et. al.. -       Re: MtMan-List: Warmth of fur et. al.. -       Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       Re: MtMan-List: fur for warmth -       Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       MtMan-List: Colorado Christmas -       MtMan-List: big timber, buckskin report -       Re: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. -       MtMan-List: Firearm Question ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 21:04:29 -0500 From: Marc Stewart Subject: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. Hello group, As one of the list lurkers, I have gained lots of much appreciated info from all of you. Now, I ask a question that I've been wondering about for a few weeks now....Pound for pound, what is the warmest fur available. For years, I've slept under a buff hide at the bigger events, but would never carry it more than a few hundred yards. *bg* I had ideas at one time of sewing a nice beaver blanket for my wife for when its chilly but not freezing. Any thoughts or ideas? Now, we're not talking about whether or not wool is better for warmth( I would never carry more than a wool blanket on a trek) I'm talking specifically about furs...Thank you all in advance for any advice or information you may offer to share. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:38:57 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. Mark, Warmth of a given insulating material is measured in "R" factor by the modern world. I'm sure you are aware of this. Here are a couple things to think about when trying to decide the answer to your question. When you consider the weight of a pelt or hair on hide like your buff robe, part of what you are weighing is the leather the fur/hair is attached to. In the case of buffalo robes, commercial robes are much heavier than Indian dressed or brain tanned robes. A couple of fellas in my acquaintance have procured brain tanned buffalo robes and find them to be "carryable" when compared to the normal commercial tanned robe. They characterize them as being VERY LIGHT WEIGHT. The warmth is still all there but the hide weighs much less. As to how to determine which fur/pelt/natural material is going to be the warmest per pound, your gona need to take out the weight of the leather first. From what little I know about insulation values of natural materials nothing beats goose down. Some where up there will be hair from members of the deer family with their hollow hair. Also way up there are the furs of some of the smaller animals such as chinchillas. Great Basin Indians made very warm robes from strips of rabbit pelts. But it all boils down to how much loft you can get in a material that will hold together. Wool on a sheep skin would be warmer than the blanket you could make from it since the blanket is compressed to some degree but the sheep hide still has that danged hide on it. Don't really have a definitive answer for you but thought I would throw my two bits out. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:42:27 -0600 From: "Ratcliff" Subject: Fw: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. Marc That is a good question. Like you, my buffalo robe goes only where I = have help carrying the heavy rascal, although it IS warm. I manage to = be comfortable with two good wool blankets. To address your question, I = would think that the best fur is one that is lightweight enough to carry = comfortably, so a thick fur in relation to the thickness of the leather = sounds like the ticket. I bet a robe made of a lot of rabbit skins = would be a wonderful thing. Careful stitching would be necessary to = make it work but I would wager that it would be warm as a box full of = puppies. There are numerous references in the record of various Indians = using rabbit skin robes. However, you would run the risk of appearing = to be sleeping under Janis Joplin's old hippie jacket.=20 Anybody have any experience with rabbit skin robes? YMOS Lanney Ratcliff - ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Marc Stewart" To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:04 PM Subject: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. > Hello group, > As one of the list lurkers, I have gained lots of much > appreciated info from all of you. Now, I ask a question that I've been > wondering about for a few weeks now....Pound for pound, what is the > warmest fur available. For years, I've slept under a buff hide at the > bigger events, but would never carry it more than a few hundred yards. > *bg* I had ideas at one time of sewing a nice beaver blanket for my > wife for when its chilly but not freezing. Any thoughts or ideas? Now, > we're not talking about whether or not wool is better for warmth( I > would never carry more than a wool blanket on a trek) I'm talking > specifically about furs...Thank you all in advance for any advice or > information you may offer to share. >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:57:57 -0800 From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. My mother in law made my wife and I a rabbitt skin blanket. She got a bunch of those Janis Joplin jackets at flea markets, etc.... took them apart and stitched together a queen sized blanket. She then backed it with some cozy flannel. This blanket is light, rolls up tight, and is warm....not as warm as my brain tanned buffalo, but a lot easier to pack and carry. I have an elk robe, but the hairs break of and itch....it is also heavy. I didn't know that commercial tanned buffalo (never had one) is heavier than brain tanned. My B.T. buff robe is'nt so heavy, as it is bulky. I slept with it and a Whitney blanket at the western camp in the sierras last nov.. It was down near 0 dg one night, and I was perfectly warm and cozy....It was my first real test of my buff. robe, I'm sure glad I have it. For this trip I also made a pair of centerseam mocs. from a sheepskin (wool side in) and used them to sleep in. I would recommend this also. If ya got's to go outside the bedroll , you got mocs on, and they are cozy. hardtack - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:27:39 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. I have experience with all the areas you mention. I have commercial and brian tanned buffalo robes. Will take the brain tan any day. Have two woven rabbit pelt robes or blankets. They are very warm. The Whitney's I will take over the Pendletons. The choice of all is, spread out the Whitney's and then crawl into a brain tanned buffalo robe with a lining of rabbit fur. The buffalo robe can get prickly and the rabbit is to soft. I am very comfortable in very cold weather. Linda Holley Ratcliff wrote: > Marc > That is a good question. Like you, my buffalo robe goes only where I have help carrying the heavy rascal, although it IS warm. I manage to be comfortable with two good wool blankets. To address your question, I would think that the best fur is one that is lightweight enough to carry comfortably, so a thick fur in relation to the thickness of the leather sounds like the ticket. I bet a robe made of a lot of rabbit skins would be a wonderful thing. Careful stitching would be necessary to make it work but I would wager that it would be warm as a box full of puppies. There are numerous references in the record of various Indians using rabbit skin robes. However, you would run the risk of appearing to be sleeping under Janis Joplin's old hippie jacket. > Anybody have any experience with rabbit skin robes? > YMOS > Lanney Ratcliff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marc Stewart" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:04 PM > Subject: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. > > > Hello group, > > As one of the list lurkers, I have gained lots of much > > appreciated info from all of you. Now, I ask a question that I've been > > wondering about for a few weeks now....Pound for pound, what is the > > warmest fur available. For years, I've slept under a buff hide at the > > bigger events, but would never carry it more than a few hundred yards. > > *bg* I had ideas at one time of sewing a nice beaver blanket for my > > wife for when its chilly but not freezing. Any thoughts or ideas? Now, > > we're not talking about whether or not wool is better for warmth( I > > would never carry more than a wool blanket on a trek) I'm talking > > specifically about furs...Thank you all in advance for any advice or > > information you may offer to share. > > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 22:52:58 -0500 From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. Mark, Just a couple more bits of data, my BT buff robe weighs only 17 lbs and it's nearly 50 ft2, more than enough to make a very warm bed for all but the largest sleeper. It can be rolled, along with an oilcloth ground cover/shelter, into an easily managed carry for short distances, or could be configured with a couple of shoulder straps for longer distances. I used this robe at the same camp as hardtack (he's better insulated than me) and I was as warm as I care to be. Next time I'll pin the bottom shut so to keep my toes out of the snow. Although light when dry, the robe will become significantly heavier if it gets wet. Next time I will wrap it in a couple large garbage bags before packing it into my duffel bag for air travel since my stuff was left out on some baggage cart in a thunderstorm. I think the buff robe may be warmer than other furs/hides since it has so much loft which is where the insulating takes place. BTW, I've never met a rabbit pelt that didn't shed, but they are mighty warm and light Tom Roger Lahti wrote: > Mark, > > Warmth of a given insulating material is measured in "R" factor by the > modern world. I'm sure you are aware of this. Here are a couple things to > think about when trying to decide the answer to your question. > > When you consider the weight of a pelt or hair on hide like your buff robe, > part of what you are weighing is the leather the fur/hair is attached to. In > the case of buffalo robes, commercial robes are much heavier than Indian > dressed or brain tanned robes. A couple of fellas in my acquaintance have > procured brain tanned buffalo robes and find them to be "carryable" when > compared to the normal commercial tanned robe. They characterize them as > being VERY LIGHT WEIGHT. The warmth is still all there but the hide weighs > much less. > > As to how to determine which fur/pelt/natural material is going to be the > warmest per pound, your gona need to take out the weight of the leather > first. From what little I know about insulation values of natural materials > nothing beats goose down. Some where up there will be hair from members of > the deer family with their hollow hair. Also way up there are the furs of > some of the smaller animals such as chinchillas. Great Basin Indians made > very warm robes from strips of rabbit pelts. But it all boils down to how > much loft you can get in a material that will hold together. Wool on a sheep > skin would be warmer than the blanket you could make from it since the > blanket is compressed to some degree but the sheep hide still has that > danged hide on it. > > Don't really have a definitive answer for you but thought I would throw my > two bits out. > > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:46:49 EST From: NaugaMok@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. In a message dated 12/17/00 6:00:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, sardog1@att.net writes: << I had ideas at one time of sewing a nice beaver blanket for my wife for when its chilly but not freezing. Any thoughts or ideas? >> When I visited Johnson Hall in October, they had an intresting bed covering. It was made up of 9 beaver hides backed with a wool blanket. If any of you have visited Sir William's house, you know it was his extensive records that allowed them to restore the house authenticaly. This bed cover is documentable to arround 1760 - 1770. It was recreated for the Hall by a fellow reenactor. Granted, Sir William was very wealthy, so echonomicaly, I doubt we can doccument one like this in the Rockies, but they definitely had the main ingredients -- beaver hides & wool blankets. I do have a 2 hide beaver cape & can attest to it's warmth. NM - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:32:12 -0800 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: MtMan-List: fur for warmth This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C068CD.04F01080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have no experience with fur specifically for warmth other than buffalo = but I can supply some observations and research. Wolf fur has been = often used for insulation in parkas in Alaska. B52 pilots used them on = their overflights of the Russian coast. Those old planes had little = heat on that route. The .45 cal. pistols would freeze into their = holsters rendering them useless if ever needed. The parkas were warm = and the trim of wolf fur allowed no build up of ice or snow. Works for = those critters. The warmest fur I have read about is Polar bear. Inuits wear suits of = polar bear hide when staying overnight on the ice. They reject the = niceties of down bags and quilted parkas relying only on this garment. = They wear their sleeping gear. Obviously, it isn't the fat on the bear = alone that allows it to swim in the frigid water of the Arctic. =20 You can bet that polar bear hide will be damn hard to come by in the = United States and wolf fur isn't much easier. Replicating the life = style of historical Mountain Men obviously isn't the point of the = question asked. But Natives that live or work on the land to the north = rely on the fur of the white bear. Larry Huber =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C068CD.04F01080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have no experience with fur = specifically for=20 warmth other than buffalo but I can supply some observations and = research. =20 Wolf fur has been often used for insulation in parkas in Alaska.  = B52=20 pilots used them on their overflights of the Russian coast.  Those = old=20 planes had little heat on that route.  The .45 cal. pistols would = freeze=20 into their holsters rendering them useless if ever needed.  The = parkas were=20 warm and the trim of wolf fur allowed no build up of ice or snow. Works = for=20 those critters.
 
The warmest fur I have read about is = Polar=20 bear.  Inuits wear suits of polar bear hide when staying overnight = on the=20 ice.  They reject the niceties of down bags and quilted parkas = relying only=20 on this garment.  They wear their sleeping gear.  Obviously, = it isn't=20 the fat on the bear alone that allows it to swim in the frigid water of = the=20 Arctic. 
 
You can bet that polar bear hide will = be damn hard=20 to come by in the United States and wolf fur isn't much easier. =20 Replicating the life style of historical Mountain Men obviously isn't = the point=20 of the question asked.  But Natives that live or work on the land = to the=20 north rely on the fur of the white bear.
 
Larry Huber
  
- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C068CD.04F01080-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:22:53 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: Warmth of fur et. al.. "Anybody have any experience with rabbit skin robes? YMOS Lanney Ratcliff" The rabbit skin robes of the Great Basin Indians were not just rabbit hides stitched together but something quite different and more time-consuming. The base was long,twisted fiber cords set up on a loom as warp threads. The woof cords were wrapped with rabbit hides. Rabbit hides were cut into a large oval and then one long spiral cut was made into the oval to produce a long strip about 3/4" wide. These were spliced into even longer strips by putting a 5/8" slice near each end (the cut being paralel to the "long" way of the strip) forming an "eye". The end of one strip is slipped into the eye of the second, then the "new" strip is laced through the "unused" eye to complete the splice. Now these long strips were wrapped spirally around the woof cord, and these "fuzzy" cords are woven through the warp threads to form the blanket. This is similar to "Linsey-Woolsey" of Colonial fame, where linnen warp threads are comined with woolen woof. The poorer tribes such as Pahiutes and Goshiutes were users of such robes or blankets. I have a photo from around the 1860s of a Shoshone woman wearing such a robe. Years ago, before the Indians started insisting they be allowed to bury their ancient dead, there were some Fremont mummies in the Mormon museum on Temple Square in Salt Lake City. They have long-since been removed but I remember seeing such a blanket on one of the Fremonts. They dropped off the time-line at least 700 years ago, if you are looking for dating these robes. Making one would be quite a chore, but tanned hides can be picked up quite reasonably in leather wholsale supply houses, or a little bit more expensive in many rendezvous or festivals. I would recommend jute cord such as is used in gardening to tie up plants. Given a choice, go for the natural brown rather than the dyed green. When you are done your robe will be warm, light, and historically correct. Realizing how much of the region trapped in the 1805 - 1840 period was in Shoshone or Ute country, it is not improbable that rabbit blankets comforted assorted mountain men during their expeditions to the Rockies. Hope this helps. I'd like to hear from anyone who has success with this project. Richard James AMM Hvrno #79 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:30:58 -0800 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Warmth of fur et. al.. I have one of those blankets that I made in the late 1960s. Did a research paper on the technique which required me producing such a blanket. Lots of work and lots of fur flying. Wore a mask as I cut the rabbit pelts. Linda Holley SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > "Anybody have any experience with rabbit skin robes? > > YMOS > > Lanney Ratcliff" > > The rabbit skin robes of the Great Basin Indians were not just rabbit > hides stitched together but something quite different and more > time-consuming. The base was long,twisted fiber cords set up on a loom as > warp threads. The woof cords were wrapped with rabbit hides. Rabbit hides > were cut into a large oval and then one long spiral cut was made into the > oval to produce a long strip about 3/4" wide. These were spliced into even > longer strips by putting a 5/8" slice near each end (the cut being paralel > to the "long" way of the strip) forming an "eye". The end of one strip is > slipped into the eye of the second, then the "new" strip is laced through the > "unused" eye to complete the splice. Now these long strips were wrapped > spirally around the woof cord, and these "fuzzy" cords are woven through the > warp threads to form the blanket. This is similar to "Linsey-Woolsey" of > Colonial fame, where linnen warp threads are comined with woolen woof. > > The poorer tribes such as Pahiutes and Goshiutes were users of such robes > or blankets. I have a photo from around the 1860s of a Shoshone woman > wearing such a robe. Years ago, before the Indians started insisting they > be allowed to bury their ancient dead, there were some Fremont mummies in the > Mormon museum on Temple Square in Salt Lake City. They have long-since been > removed but I remember seeing such a blanket on one of the Fremonts. They > dropped off the time-line at least 700 years ago, if you are looking for > dating these robes. > > Making one would be quite a chore, but tanned hides can be picked up > quite reasonably in leather wholsale supply houses, or a little bit more > expensive in many rendezvous or festivals. I would recommend jute cord such > as is used in gardening to tie up plants. Given a choice, go for the natural > brown rather than the dyed green. When you are done your robe will be warm, > light, and historically correct. Realizing how much of the region trapped > in the 1805 - 1840 period was in Shoshone or Ute country, it is not > improbable that rabbit blankets comforted assorted mountain men during their > expeditions to the Rockies. > Hope this helps. I'd like to hear from anyone who has success with this > project. > > Richard James > AMM Hvrno #79 > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:14:46 -0700 From: "Buck Conner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. tom roberts wrote: > Mark, > > I think the buff robe may be warmer than other furs/hides > since it has so much loft which is where the insulating takes > place. We had an AMM encampment over Thanksgiving weekend in South Park area of Colorado with temps in the low teens, most did pretty good with a couple of Witney's, the warmest where those with a buffalo robe and Witney's of coarse. You know it got cold when a week later your toes still felt numb and a few toe nails are light blue now. This seems to be the area most bothered in extreme cold - - toes and fingers, my feet where covered and had two pair of hand knit socks, but still not enough. Later, Buck Conner Research page: http://pages.about.com/conner1/ _______HRD__ Personal page: http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ ____________________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:43:22 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: fur for warmth In a message dated 12/18/00 11:32:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, shootsprairie@hotmail.com writes: << Obviously, it isn't the fat on the bear alone that allows it to swim in the frigid water of the Arctic. >> You are right. The polar bear hairs are actually hollow (like that of other species) and transluscent....they actually project sunlight down to the animal's skins to warm it. That is probably not hte only warming property of the fur but is at least one. For what it is worth...but where can the average joe get polar bear fur? - -C/Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:57:21 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. Gentelmen, Well here is my two cents, I was lucky to be born a Scandinavian my feet stay so warm that I sleep with them uncovered for most of the winter and my cheeks and ears turn red when in the cold and I hardly ever cover my ears. Last year I wen't to the Bridger Birthday camp in March the wind never stoped and the night temp was below 0. My sleeping gear was made up from 4= 4lb wool blankets inter lapped and covered by a 12'x12' canvas tarp. Under the bed role was an oil cloth. I slept with only one pair of cotton socks.I use my capote like a robe and after I get into the bed I spread the capote over the top and cover my head with the hood of the capote. A buffalo robe would be warm but I take to much stuff as it is. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: "Buck Conner" >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb. >Date: Mon, Dec 18, 2000, 6:14 PM > >tom roberts wrote: > >> Mark, >> >> I think the buff robe may be warmer than other furs/hides >> since it has so much loft which is where the insulating takes >> place. > >We had an AMM encampment over Thanksgiving weekend in South Park area of Colorado >with temps in the low teens, most did pretty good with a couple of Witney's, the >warmest where those with a buffalo robe and Witney's of coarse. > >You know it got cold when a week later your toes still felt numb and a few toe >nails are light blue now. This seems to be the area most bothered in extreme cold >- toes and fingers, my feet where covered and had two pair of hand knit socks, but >still not enough. > >Later, >Buck Conner >Research page: >http://pages.about.com/conner1/ _______HRD__ >Personal page: >http://pages.about.com/buckconner/ >____________________ Aux Aliments de Pays! _ > > > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 10:43:07 -0700 From: louis.l.sickler@lmco.com Subject: MtMan-List: Colorado Christmas Ho the list, For those of you interested, there is an interesting story at this link http://www.denverpost.com/news/news1219j.htm I didn't send all the text, since it is a copyrighted piece. Merry Christmas to all, Lou Sickler Colorado Territory - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:04:54 -0700 From: "Terrance Luff" Subject: MtMan-List: big timber, buckskin report mr hays saw your listing on big timber thouht maybe some of the young blood might read. yes sir, i was one of the montana"s that were there and all the boulder river and big timber ronndies back 60's ? and 70,s. alot of the people that attended those first ronndies of the buckskin report later moved out here only to move else were later. at one time the flatehead lake area boAsted one of the areas with the most hard core black powder people(at that piont of time) a lot of us have gone under, so i guess this is why it jirks the ole heart when the new comers seem to make fun of us grey beards. But i do reminber at one of those NAPR rondies there was a group of us (older than dirt) that look at the hundred tipi s and said NOW THIS IS AS BIG AS IT GETS, FROM HERE ON IT STARTS TO SLIDE. I wish that some of those people were here to have seen the last national rondie at vipon park, mt. lordie lordie. i still have some of the first buckskin reports, and also rember when the ole man dave baird first came to montana. also i have seen posting about some one living in tipis. i wonder,at that time,how many families lived in tipies then in sef built cabins under primitive conditions. alot. do you remimber the time that we thought anyone belonged to a club was a company men because they had rules. a freetrapper or freeman was his own rule maker Now ,it seems, that your no one unless you can say you belong to a club with reg. number. (allwell and ole metis saying is nothing stays the same for ever) IT was nice to hear from someone that has been around for awhile. BUCKSINNING has evolved into something that is for the whole family and alot of different type people. i am so glade that i got to be apart of it,an still am. long live the buckskinning and rondie movement. pony rider (sintes 1968) i am trying to get a hold of joe walk a long _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:14:31 -0700 From: "Daniel L. Smith" Subject: Re: Re: MtMan-List: warmth of fur..lb. for lb.

- ---- Begin Original Message ----
From: "Ole B. Jensen" <olebjensen@earthlink.net>
I was lucky to be born  a Scandinavian my feet
stay so warm that I sleep with them uncovered for
most of the winter and my cheeks and ears turn
red when in the cold and I hardly ever cover my
ears.........

Ole # 718
- ----------
>From: "Buck Conner" <conner1@qwest.net>
I think the buff robe may be warmer than other
furs/hides since it has so much loft which is
where the insulating takes place.
>
>We had an AMM encampment over Thanksgiving
weekend in South Park area of Colorado
>with temps in the low teens, most did pretty
good with a couple of Witney's, the warmest where
those with a buffalo robe and Witney's of coarse.

>Later,
>Buck Conner
- ---- End Original Message ----

Ole,

I've had the same results in South Park, it's one
of those high places where the wind never stops
and the temperatures really drop after dark. Numb
toes and fingers are the norm in the winter
months, don't worry Buck the "light blue" toe
nails will go away in time (with the toes when
they fall off). Dennis will agree, same thing
happens when he gets to close with his hammer,
his skin turns a "light blue" after a few days.








Later,
Daniel L. "Concho" Smith
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- ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:57:29 -0700 From: Todd Glover Subject: MtMan-List: Firearm Question Anyone ever heard of a "Texas Tyler" Rifle or shotgun? A friend asked and I told him I know some fellers that might help. Thanks "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #694 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.