From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #724 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Monday, January 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 724 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters-the proof -       MtMan-List: the proof -       MtMan-List: revolver grips -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: revolver grips -       MtMan-List: What is "authentic" -       Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters-the proof -       Re: MtMan-List: During and after the Oregon Trail -       Re: MtMan-List: the proof -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert -       Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels -       Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -       Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls -       Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -       Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters -       RE: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert -       MtMan-List: Powder? -       RE: MtMan-List: What is "authentic" -       Re: MtMan-List: Powder? -       Re: MtMan-List: Suspenders ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:22:43 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert In a message dated 1/28/2001 11:10:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, amm1585@hyperusa.com writes: << At the risk of distracting attention from the ongoing pissing match (and it is a good one, too) I want to alert you to an email that I got twice today. The sender is "HaHaHa", who is totally unknown to me, and is supposedly a bawdy tale about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.....with an attachment. It looks suspicious to me and I deleted it and added it to my "blocked sender" list (click on "message" in you OE toolbar and look at the list of options). My virus scan did not detect a virus or worm but I choose to be careful. Remember the kak worm from last year? YMOS >> This is no hoax, it is a bad virus. It's been going around some of the newsgroups. Some of those who opened it have "survived" but only after extensive reformatting and loss of data. DO NOT OPEN ANYTHING with 7 dwarfs etc in it. I think the latest Norton anti virus may be able to detect & fix but why chance it? Greg Sefton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:58:36 EST From: CTOAKES@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls - --part1_e.81da57a.27a6df1c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > , tied a leather thong to the rod with > about four half hitches and the other end to a handy sapling then pulled > back on the gun and was able to get the ball right out without a great > effort. > Great way to do this. When removing a stuck ball remember you should always consider the gun loaded and not put you body directly in line of the barrel that now has both a lead ball and a spear (red that ram rod). Guns can and do go off when pulling stuck balls. If you can pour a lot of lube down the barrel and into the nipple or touch hole to make sure the powder (there may be a little even if you think you dry balled it) is not going to accidently go off. Then pull the ball with your body (and everyone elses) out of the line of fire. Y.M.O.S. C. T. Oakes - --part1_e.81da57a.27a6df1c_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

, tied a leather thong to the rod with
about four half hitches and the other end to a handy sapling then pulled
back on the gun and was able to get the ball right out without a great
effort.


Great way to do this.  When removing a stuck ball remember you should always
consider the gun loaded and not put you body directly in line of the barrel
that now has both a lead ball and a spear (red that ram rod).  Guns can and
do go off when pulling stuck balls.  If you can pour a lot of lube down the
barrel and into the nipple or touch hole to make sure the powder (there may
be a little even if you think you dry balled it) is not going to accidently
go off.  Then pull the ball with your body (and everyone elses) out of the
line of fire.

Y.M.O.S.

C. T. Oakes - --part1_e.81da57a.27a6df1c_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:17:00 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters-the proof In a message dated 1/29/2001 12:50:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, leona3@favorites.com writes: << I went to my first doing over ten years ago. Big public event, lots of fun. Decided to get into this some more. Then I read a little out of the first Book of Buckskinning. After that I was ruined. I used to pray (figuratively at least) I could find someone who took this stuff seriously enough to read a first hand journal and actually try to apply some of it. You want to tear my stuff apart and tell what I am doing wrong have at it cause I could damn sure learn a few things from it. Wagh how would it be to set around at night and pass a bit o rum and have men that dropped names and quote Meek, Ferris and Russell. >> Wynn, Your point is an excellent one and your motives probably reflect the reasons most of us got into this in the first place. Reasons of fascination with the period and the people of this endeavor and the camaraderie that living out these events (at least to some extent) can create. I started doing blackpowder shooting about in the 60's and quickly got into the buckskining thing. It was obvious we had a lot to learn back then and all devoted much time to research and exchange of information to try to "educate" each other. At some point there was a transformation in some circles from good natured cameraderie, enjoyment, and information sharing to a sort of "pious policing" of the equipment, clothing, shelters, food, camp parctices, and even the vernacular of the participants in events. I have not personally had my equipment criticized, but I often attended events as a blacksmith rather than a trapper. I did see a number of people's gear belittled and even saw people asked to leave who had been avid afficionados of the spirit of buckskinning. I felt sorry for them and many actually left the pursuit because of it. These people had, in many cases, greatly enhanced the enjoyment of these events by their presence. A lot of the fun went out of it for me and others. There were splinter groups who went off to hold their own camps and some general dischord. Our numbers were pretty slim to start with and it was sad to see it die off further; all because someone insisted a person had to have a signed affidavit by ole Broken Hand that he skinned a beaver with this very knife back in '28 before he could use it. A bit of an exageration, but it (the requirement for documentation) got ridiculous. I probably should have posted this background (earlier) for my personal belief that we should be more tolerant of equipment and practices that were probably present in the mountains due to their availability and utility in the settlements. The ironic thing (to me) is that, in all probability, the more lenient events (especially rendezvous) that allow any period dress and equipment (whether it's actually written in someones diary or not) are probably more historically correct than those highly restricted ones. It's been stated here and I agree, that they are more fun and laid back. It's understandable that some are so entrenched in their pursuit (some are downright rabid enthusiasts) that they resist any change. They might even hurl insults at the person suggesting that change. I'm certainly not offended by them and will remain a rational proponent of tolerance and enjoyment of the experience. I also respect the opinions of those who persist in ridgid enforcement of documentation, whether I agree with them or not. "Life's too short to dance with ugly women" Read: "don't do anything you really don't want to do" or "if it ain't fun, don't do it." As someone said, quite astutely, "it's time to move on". Greg Sefton, "Never insult mules or cooks as they have no sense of humor" - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:34:44 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: the proof Richard James said, Sir, well said and worth repeating. I am acquainted with a very early member who left over just such picayunish details. As a non-member, I cannot comment on AMM operations. I would only hope that all re-enactors of the pre-1840 era would respect that there are numerous personas and lifestyles that can be correctly portrayed. Not just the RMFT trapper. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 07:50:00 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: revolver grips Pletch Are you going to make your own [simulated] ivory grips or buy factory made? I have some imitation stag on a modern revolver that has been there almost 30 years. In that time it has take a little 'aging'. Those were Jay Scott grips. Making your own is not an overwhelming task. Check the net for suppliers of knife handle material, there are a lot of them. Bet you can find just what you want. Even original mastodon tusk or real walrus tusk ivory. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:29:40 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls In a message dated 1/29/2001 2:52:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, tjewell@home.com writes: << The first time I went out shooting, after about my third shot I loaded patched ball without any powder. I was using a tight patch/ball combo. and didn't swab between shots so I had a really hard time getting the ball down the bore. I pulled the threaded attachment along with the screw right of the end of the ramrod trying to get the darned thing out. >> Sometimes you can take out the nipple or clean out screw and get enough powder into the plug behind the ball to shoot it out. Most of us have done that at one time or another though most of us won't admit it. I sure won't. Greg - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:50:25 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: revolver grips In a message dated 1/29/2001 10:23:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, frankf@centurytel.net writes: << Making your own is not an overwhelming task. Check the net for suppliers of knife handle material, there are a lot of them. Bet you can find just what you want. Even original mastodon tusk or real walrus tusk ivory. >> Ivory micarta is an excellent ivory replacement its a material made from paper and phenolic resin. If you place it in the sun after all shaping sanding and polishing, it will age nicely with a yellowish tinge. The knife suppliers have it. I've also made a numeber of rev. grips from shed moose antler. Greg S. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:09:58 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: What is "authentic" I'm just a novice to this business and the thread of "short starters" has been going on too long. But I just got back to the computer and had to throw in a could of things. You can never provide a negative - it is an impossibility. If something happened, you can prove it did. If something DIDN'T happen, you can't prove it never happened, only that it was not documented. That's a simple rule of pure logic! With my 1890's Cheyenne tipi there are a number of different trips I make and there are "different rules" depending on the trip. For pure "recreational travel" anything goes. I take what makes life comfortable. If the set-up is at a museum or other "look but don't touch" events, a lot of stuff gets left at home. If it can be documented thru at least two sources that it was used and if it "looks authentic" from 10 feet away, it can go. (I have a number of "reproduction" items made from modern material that pass the visual test, but sometimes only from certain angles or from certain minimum distances.) When it gets down to "period authentic", the camp gets pretty bare. (Even the tipi is stitched with nylon thread and if you get right up close, you can see this.) Even as a novice, I respect the rules of the event organizer. If I can't meet the rules of authenticity to my own comfort, it is my choice not to participate in that event and multi-source documentation is the only possible qualification for the most strict events. Just my penny's worth. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:29:14 -0500 From: "Dennis Earp" <96mfg@hspower.com> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters-the proof This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_03DF_01C089F7.78EE8980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Buck, A couple of quick questions about the Potts rifle and bag. Was the = collector Jim Davis from Claremore, Okla? Are there any pictures or descriptions of the contents? Can you = tell me where I can get a copy of Mr. Pott's journal? Thanks, Dennis Earp ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Buck Conner=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 12:38 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters-the proof .=20 = - ----------------------------------------------------=20 I have had many bags, carried so much stuff that one would think ye = need a pack mule for support. After 40 years and looking at lots of = original shooting bags and mainly paying attention to contents, I now = have a small bag copied from one of a hunter from Pottstown PA carried = as part of his profession for a 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_03DF_01C089F7.78EE8980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Buck,
 
A couple of quick questions about the = Potts rifle=20 and bag.  Was the collector Jim Davis from Claremore,
Okla?  Are there any pictures or = descriptions=20 of the contents?  Can you tell me where I can get a = copy
of Mr. = Pott's journal?
 
Thanks,
Dennis Earp
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Buck = Conner=20
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 = 12:38=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short=20 Starters-the proof
.
=

           &nbs= p;         =20 ----------------------------------------------------=20

I have had many bags, carried so much stuff that one would think ye = need a=20 pack mule for support. After 40 years and looking at lots of original = shooting=20 bags and mainly paying attention to contents, I now have a small bag = copied=20 from one of a hunter from Pottstown PA carried as part of his = profession for a=20 28 years career from 1787 to 1815.

- ------=_NextPart_000_03DF_01C089F7.78EE8980-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:48:22 EST From: Hawkengun@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: During and after the Oregon Trail Include Caleb Wilkins along with Joe Meek and the others that settled in the Williamette country. (Utley, A LIFE WILD AND PERILOUS, NY, 1997: 206; et. al. including Meek) A table in the appendix of the book MOUNTAIN MAN & GRIZZLY by Fred Gowans (Mtn Grizzly Pub, Orem, UT, 1986) lists the following places of death for about 80 mountain men that retired from the mountains: Missouri - 14 California - 12 Oregon - 6 New Mexico/ Colo. - 3 states with 2 included WY, KY, Wash. DC, TN, IA, Illinois This is only a partial list but helps to demonstrate the trend for mountain men after the early 1840s- Those who wanted to stay in the Far West tended to go to Calif. or Oregon, and some (like Carson, Mark Head, the Bent's, etc.) went to NM or the Arknsas River country in CO. Many retired to Missouri (as Bridger eventually did) and the rest tended to return to their home states. Others stayed in the mtns for the rest of their lives, never retiring and remaining mountain men in every possible way (i.e. Bill Williams, Bill Hamilton, et. al.) John R. Sweet - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:26:37 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: the proof In a message dated 1/29/1 08:23:38 AM, frankf@centurytel.net writes: < Sir, well said and worth repeating. I am acquainted with a very early member who left over just such picayunish details. As a non-member, I cannot comment on AMM operations. I would only hope that all re-enactors of the pre-1840 era would respect that there are numerous personas and lifestyles that can be correctly portrayed. Not just the RMFT trapper. Frank G. Fusco>> Frank I've seen your signature at the bottom of a number of what I what I would call significant and worth-while messages. From this let me thank you for what I feel is a compliment. I have already been called to task for not noticing that I was responding on the history board rather than that one reserved for AMM members exclusivly, since this was AMM business. For this I have appologized. But whether to a restricted or to an open audience, I stick by my guns on my original statement. I am too old to be bothered by "political correctness". Most Sincerely Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:29:52 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls In a message dated 1/29/1 08:31:23 AM, BrayHaven@aol.com writes: <> For thirty years I have maintained a person is not a true muzzle loader until they have loaded the ball without the powder first or shot a ramrod. Richard James (a true muzzle-loader who testifies "ramrods sure make that think kick") - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:33:10 -0500 From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls Richard James...wrote "or shot a ramrod." ..Kicks some, don't it.. D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:39:43 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls In a message dated 1/29/1 12:34:22 PM, deforge1@bright.net writes: <<...wrote "or shot a ramrod." ..Kicks some, don't it.. D>> It does that, Dennis, and makes your old ear balls ring, too. Did you notice?? RJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:42:35 -0500 From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls "It does that, Dennis, and makes your old ear balls ring, too. Did you notice??" >>Yep, saw double for a few seconds..And resembled a hairy taco .... D - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:04:20 -0800 From: "Stitchin' Scotsman" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert Lanney: My ISP warned me against that one. Delete ASAP! Long John - -----Original Message----- From: Lanney Ratcliff To: History List Date: Sunday, January 28, 2001 8:10 PM Subject: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert >At the risk of distracting attention from the ongoing pissing match (and it >is a good one, too) I want to alert you to an email that I got twice today. >The sender is "HaHaHa", who is totally unknown to me, and is supposedly a >bawdy tale about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.....with an attachment. It >looks suspicious to me and I deleted it and added it to my "blocked sender" >list (click on "message" in you OE toolbar and look at the list of options). >My virus scan did not detect a virus or worm but I choose to be careful. >Remember the kak worm from last year? >YMOS >Lanney Ratcliff >ps: I own a short starter or two but I haven't used one in >years.....especially with the ounce of No.4's I pour down my smoothbore. > > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:22:47 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels - ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom roberts" To: Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 3:37 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: salt barrels > Capt, > > All you say about the worth of salt makes > complete sense. The thing that is unclear to > me is why this was carried in his shooting > pouch with all the other things which seem > substantially more important to the pursuit of > his task as a hunter and his ability to > provide for his own survival. Tom, Like as has been said, perhaps that salt barrel just got thrown in by a relative. Perhaps our hunter felt he had room and if he had to head for cover without his bed roll, haversack with extra food and whatever he was carrying; as long as he had his pouch, horn and gun, he generally had all the makings of a safe, warm, happy, wilderness home. Who knows. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:39:41 -0600 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters Not to let a good pissing contest quiet down. It does seem to stimulate the discussions. Has anyone considered that at least some of what have been identified as short starters are in fact ramrods for pistols? John... "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government on Earth... and what no just government should refuse." --Thomas Jefferson - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:54:25 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Pullin' Balls In a message dated 1/29/1 12:43:35 PM, deforge1@bright.net writes: <.... >> A "hairy taco"?? - I'm still trying to visualize you in that state. RJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:10:40 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters In a message dated 1/29/1 03:44:03 PM, kramer@kramerize.com writes: <> No. They are not. RJ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:28:02 -0800 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Short Starters > Has anyone considered that at least some of what have been identified as > short starters are in fact ramrods for pistols? > >> > > No. They are not. > RJ Guess that pretty much settles that! Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:45:50 -0600 From: Todd Subject: RE: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert Lanney, my version of Norton DID detect a virus in that file. So, if = you get something about "the Real Story of Snow White", delete it = immediately. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Lanney = Ratcliff > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 10:11 PM > To: History List > Subject: MtMan-List: possible virus/worm alert >=20 >=20 > At the risk of distracting attention from the ongoing pissing=20 > match (and it > is a good one, too) I want to alert you to an email that I got=20 > twice today. > The sender is "HaHaHa", who is totally unknown to me, and is = supposedly a > bawdy tale about Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.....with an=20 > attachment. It > looks suspicious to me and I deleted it and added it to my=20 > "blocked sender" > list (click on "message" in you OE toolbar and look at the list=20 > of options). > My virus scan did not detect a virus or worm but I choose to be = careful. > Remember the kak worm from last year? > YMOS > Lanney Ratcliff > ps: I own a short starter or two but I haven't used one in > years.....especially with the ounce of No.4's I pour down my = smoothbore. >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:49:40 -0600 From: Todd Subject: MtMan-List: Powder? Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? = You've obviously got your horn, but what about restocking said horn? I = know most (if not all) trappers had 1 or more horses, so I'm assuming = additional powder was carried there? What type of containers were used? = What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? =20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:55:57 -0600 From: Todd Subject: RE: MtMan-List: What is "authentic" Amen. On that line, what are some good, authentic events? I live in = western Missouri, not too far from Fort Osage. Most of the events I've = been to are NMLRA events, or local club shoots, where it's pre-1840 = outside the tent, for the most part. I'd like to try to get beyond = that, and make my gear as authentic as I can. I know I have a LONG way = to go, but what the heck, I enjoy the pursuit, and enjoy making all the = bitz I need and use. =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-hist_text@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Best, Dianne > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 10:10 AM > To: 'MountainMan Digest' > Subject: MtMan-List: What is "authentic" >=20 >=20 > I'm just a novice to this business and the thread of "short starters" = has > been going on too long. But I just got back to the computer and=20 > had to throw > in a could of things. >=20 > You can never provide a negative - it is an impossibility. If = something > happened, you can prove it did. If something DIDN'T happen, you=20 > can't prove > it never happened, only that it was not documented. That's a=20 > simple rule of > pure logic! >=20 > With my 1890's Cheyenne tipi there are a number of different trips I = make > and there are "different rules" depending on the trip. >=20 > For pure "recreational travel" anything goes. I take what makes life > comfortable. >=20 > If the set-up is at a museum or other "look but don't touch" events, a = lot > of stuff gets left at home. If it can be documented thru at least two > sources that it was used and if it "looks authentic" from 10 feet = away, it > can go. (I have a number of "reproduction" items made from modern = material > that pass the visual test, but sometimes only from certain angles or = from > certain minimum distances.) >=20 > When it gets down to "period authentic", the camp gets pretty bare. = (Even > the tipi is stitched with nylon thread and if you get right up close, = you > can see this.) >=20 > Even as a novice, I respect the rules of the event organizer. If I = can't > meet the rules of authenticity to my own comfort, it is my choice not = to > participate in that event and multi-source documentation is the only > possible qualification for the most strict events. >=20 > Just my penny's worth. >=20 > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: = http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html >=20 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:58:35 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Powder? In a message dated 1/29/2001 6:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, farseer@swbell.net writes: << Out of curiosity, how did a trapper transport additional powder? You've obviously got your horn, but what about restocking said horn? I know most (if not all) trappers had 1 or more horses, so I'm assuming additional powder was carried there? What type of containers were used? What do folks use today when trying to maintain authenticity? >> It was sometimes carried/cached in sealed lead containers that were melted down for bullets. in the right proportion. Greg - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:07:32 -0600 From: "Douglas Hepner" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Suspenders I noticed that the suspenders that Miller painted and sketched were much narrower than those sold by most suttlers today. Does anyone have a source for such suspenders or should I just cut them out of leather? YMOS Douglas Hepner - ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Huber To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:13 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Suspenders > Suspenders have been the means of holding your pants up well beyond > migration by Europeans to this country. In fact, suspenders (or "braces") > had elastic parts to them in the Dickensonian era. Gentlemen fashion only, > of course. Linen suspenders with leather reinforcement was standard issue > to military troops during the 19th Century. The leather belt was a "tool" > belt to hold ammo, bayonet, etc. The style of suspenders with the X > arrangement in the back is said to be an American style. English braces are > Y in shape with a loop in the back suspending a piece of leather with two > buttonholes. > > I wear linen suspenders to hold up my leather trousers but I believe I will > switch to leather braces of my own manufacture. I don't like the way the > metal buckles cut into my chest or the narrow width that has put > semi-permanent furrows into my shoulders. > > Larry Huber > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 9:55 AM > Subject: MtMan-List: Suspenders > > > > Hallo the List, > > > > Does anyone know how long suspenders have been around? ....(and not the > > elastic type) When you're built like a plumb, belts don't get it...... I > am, > > of course, pretty lean... but my pistol, knife, and hawk tend to pull my > > breeches down....:o) > > > > Ymos, > > Magpie > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #724 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.