From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #753 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Wednesday, February 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 753 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Saws -       Re: MtMan-List: Saws - Now Off Topic -       Re: MtMan-List: Saws -       Re: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! -       Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering -       MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping -       Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber -       Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping -       Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber -       Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering -       MtMan-List: "Pioneer" lists -       MtMan-List: Fw: poncho -       MtMan-List: Fw: saws -       Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho -       Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber -       Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp -       Re: MtMan-List: Canadian fur trade museums -       MtMan-List: Ojiway recall 1850 tragedy -       Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho -       Re: MtMan-List: Dining Cloth Was Poncho -       Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering -       MtMan-List:Ft Osage & Arrow Rock(was insults) -       Re: MtMan-List: Dining Cloth Was Poncho -       MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! -       Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: "Pioneer" lists -       Re: MtMan-List: Saws -       Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity -       Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity -       Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp/end results -       Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:10:45 EST From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws In a message dated 2/19/01 12:32:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, troberts@gdi.net writes: << ight be a thin spot in the logic that they were necessarily rare then, just because originals are rare today. >> I agree with that suppositon. Used to see crosscut saws everywhere as little as 40 years ago. Now they are not impossible but getting harder to find.At least in this part of the woods. What will it be like another 100 years from now? Maybe the same principle applies to the frame saws mentioned. - -C.Kent - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:21:16 -0500 From: tom roberts Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws - Now Off Topic As with most things, even those worth saving, time takes it's toll. I've got an old 6 ft. pit saw, wooden handles long since rotted away, that I've had for many years. The only reason I still keep it (hanging in my shop) is to remind myself that there were folks who worked one hell of a lot harder then most of us ever will! I really pity the poor b*****ds who had to use this tool, especially the guy on the bottom. Tom HikingOnThru@cs.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/19/01 12:32:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, > troberts@gdi.net writes: > ....Used to see crosscut saws everywhere as little > as 40 years ago. Now they are not impossible but getting harder to find.At > least in this part of the woods. What will it be like another 100 years from > now? Maybe the same principle applies to the frame saws mentioned. > -C.Kent > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:31:26 EST From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws > I agree with that suppositon. Used to see crosscut saws everywhere as little > as 40 years ago. Now they are not impossible but getting harder to find.At > least in this part of the woods. What will it be like another 100 years from > now? Maybe the same principle applies to the frame saws mentioned. Russell"s book Firearms, Tools, Traps, etc has in the back, Appendix B. It is Astor's inventory of tools and blasmithing equipt. on the Columbia river 1812-1813. This detailed inventory was taken prior to the sale of Astoria to the North West Co. For saws, it lists: 3 Cross cut saws 3 Whip saws (used) 3 Fret saws (used) 1 Compass saw 3 Compass saws (used) 1 Hand saw (used) 1 Sash saw (used) 3 Saw sets 2 Saw sets (used) The used items were in use by the company's carpenters and field crews. Seems like 3 of each is the magic number in most cases. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:53:40 -0700 From: "John L. Allen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! Ho, the list! If I might drag us back to the original comment that started all the hooraw-- With reference to the "missing" mountains Hood and Adams on the 1814 published version of William Clark's map: blame the copyist, Samuel Lewis, not the cartographer, William Clark. Clark's manuscript clearly shows both Hood (named) and Adams (unnamed). Hood had been shown on maps since the publication of George Vancouver's journals in the 1790s and was well known to Lewis and Clark before they even left St. Louis. When, on Friday, October 18, 1805, Clark described seeing "a mountain bearing S.W. Conocal form Covered with Snow" he was describing Mount Hood from the east. He was, at this point, literally back in the "known world". There are, by the way, a number of other significant variations between the published version of the Clark map and the original manuscript. None of the "corrections" inserted by Samuel Lewis improved the accuracy of Clark's original--quite the opposite, in fact. The original William Clark 1810 map is in the Coe Collection at the Beineke Library at Yale University; Yale reproduced it full size (about 3' X 4') a number of years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if some copies (4 separate sheets) weren't still available from the Yale University Press or some reputable map dealers somewhere. The good captains made an occasional mistake--but missing these two landmark peaks was not among them. WABWIRSY John Dr. John L. Allen 2703 Leslie Court Laramie, WY 82072-2979 Phone: (307) 742-0883 Fax: (307) 742-0886 e-mail: jlallen@wyoming.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 4:31 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! > Speaking of Lewis and Clark... > > I've been looking over my 1814 map of Lewis and Clark's track (copied by > Samuel Lewis from the original drawings of Wm. Clark) and guess what?!!? > ....there ain't no Mt Hood! ...and no Mt Adams either. He's got Mt Rainer, Mt > St Helens, even Mt Jefferson but no Mt Hood or Adams. Those guys blind or > what?!?? > > Now, I know it gets cloudy and rains a bit around here, but hell, I can see > them hills from my camp once in awhile! Mebbe they just popped up after them > boys headed back East.... > > Magpie > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:12:18 EST From: Ssturtle1199@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Rudy: Hate to have to be asked to be taken off the history list, but with the hours I work, and the time that I can allot to the computer the drivel is more than I can bear. 300 or more emails at a time would be worthwhile if I could add to my knowledge, but the recent Bs is more than I can allow my time to be wasted. Please keep me on the AMM list. Thanks Till trails cross Turtle - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:08:28 -0500 (EST) From: JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net (Jon Marinetti) Subject: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping Michigan Out-Of-Doors Magazine, March 2001, pp.44-46; 52-54. Coyote article & 8 color photos (including cover shot) by Mark Werner. Spring Beaver Trapping article & 1 color photo by Gregg Schefferly. "The Coyote, Super Survivor - Anglo explorers first called him the "prairie wolf", the one who watched over the Great Plains. The Navajos referred to him as "God's dog". In 1823, the famous naturalist, Thomas Say, gave us the Latin name, Canis latrans, meaning barking dog. For over 80 years, folks in the northern regions labeled him the brush wolf. ... Michigan hunters and trappers harvest an average of 4,000 coyotes annually ... Yet, because of juvenile dispersal and recolonization, coyotes have only further expanded their range. ... Humans have yet to learn to live in accordance with the land, as the coyote does." " a pack basket full of big 330 Conibears". The Michigan Trappers Association convention will be August 3-5 on the Alma fairgrounds. ... The Northern Great Lakes Fur Harvesters Association convention will be Sept. 22-23 at Kinross. ... The Upper Peninsula Trappers Association convention wil be Aug. 3-5 on the U.P. State Fairgrounds, Escanaba. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Michigan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:58:11 EST From: GazeingCyot@cs.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber Jin-o-ta-ka You might want to give that .54 another try, with less powder. Start out with 50 to 60 grains of powder. You'll find it doesn't kick bad with a light load. Jill my better half shoots a .54. She stands 4' 11 1/2" on her tip toes weighs 108 lb. soakin wet with rocks in her pockets. We started her out with 50 grains for target shooting and when she's hunting she uses 80 grains. She says she never fells the kick when shooting at game. She has taken Deer, Elk and a Moose with her 54. The only big game animal I would use a .45 on is deer. Just my 1 cent worth. See ya on the trail Crazy Cyot - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:31:39 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: ... OT - Items on the Coyote & Spring Beaver Trapping In a message dated 2/20/1 11:09:08 PM, JONDMARINETTI@webtv.net writes: <<"The Coyote, Super Survivor - Anglo explorers first called him the "prairie wolf", the one who watched over the Great Plains. The Navajos referred to him as "God's dog". >> Don't know where the author got his stuff but Navajos call them "skin walkers". They can be evil or mischevious humans transformed into animals to further their own cause and Navajos won't have anything to do with them including touching their hides or any other part. As for me, I had one for a pet and my feeling is you couldn't ask for a more lovable little friend than a coyote or a wolf (had a total of 42 of them). RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:40:54 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber In a message dated 2/21/1 12:58:46 AM, GazeingCyot@cs.com writes: <> The field load for a Civil War musket was 60 grains and that was pushing a 505 grain Minie ball. Years ago a group of us were shooting these for accuracy and found the best grouping was with 30 grains. My feeling is that the urgency to "really stoke 'er up" is over played. They have Jim Bridger's horn and charger at the Fort in Wyoming. His Charger throws 53.5 grains which probably works out one grain of powder for each tick of caliber. Loosely translated: .54 cal . . . use 54 grains for a hunting load. This is not a modern chronograph study - it is history. RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 06:31:44 EST From: Traphand@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering Get ahold of me off list address below I all so deal with fort oasge are know people who can help you out. Traphand Rick Petzoldt Traphand@aol.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:08:37 -0600 From: "Best, Dianne" Subject: MtMan-List: "Pioneer" lists Linda wrote "What area are you looking for??? Cowboy, Native american, Single shot or Wild west? etc. None of the above - just plain old common homesteaders, the kind of folk that never shot anybody (well, almost never), just came west with their families to quietly eke out a living from the land as the fur trade died out. I have found on the Web the groups you mentioned but I have not found the "less colourful" people. Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > "Best, Dianne" wrote: > Can any of you fellas (or gals) point me to a list that deals with a later > time period, like 1850-1900, other than "old west"? > > Thanks! > > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) > P.S. As to all the bickering, just ignore it. Unruly boys settle down if they don't have an audience. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:24:13 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho While reading one of Terry Johnston's books, I saw a reference to a "gum poncho". The book setting is slightly later than 1840 [Gold Rush time] but I was wondering if anyone knows what a gum poncho is and whether they might have been found during the RMFT period or earlier. Frank Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:25:23 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: Fw: saws Subject: saws On reading the discussions about saws, it occurred to me that furniture has been made with sawn wood for many centuries. It is not unreasonable to surmise that some saws may have traveled west with trappers, traders and others during the RMFT period. Frank Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:29:53 -0500 From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho I saw an original "gum poncho" in a museum, dated from the mid 19thC. It resembled a modern day poncho, (no hood). It was made of heavy cloth with gum rubber painted on it. This one was cracked and very dried. If I remember, this "gum rubber" never really hardened and was a sticky, somewhat gooey item in the heat... I don't know about it's existence in the RMFT, but it was an issue item in the ACW. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:49:13 EST From: BrayHaven@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Revolver & rifle caliber In a message dated 2/21/2001 3:41:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, SWzypher@aol.com writes: << His Charger throws 53.5 grains which probably works out one grain of powder for each tick of caliber. Loosely translated: .54 cal . . . use 54 grains for a hunting load. This is not a modern chronograph study - it is history. RJames >> I've seen references to a "rule of thumb" for years calling for @ 1 grain per number in loads. Probably a good place to work from. My "squirrel" load in .32 is 20 grains (3f) and is real hard on the backstrap & shortribs if I flinch. Greg - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:57:30 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: Fw: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp I've also used two poles crossed in a x about 3/4 of the way towards the back of the diamond fly. I had some ties on the tent that would tie into these, really opened the back of the tent. I had a 10x10 diamond fly (with flaps) that my two boys and I slept in, we were even comfortable. Only problem was that I used to light of canvas (painters cloth). Jim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:18:21 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canadian fur trade museums Don't forget Fort William (Thunder Bay, Ont) and Grand Portage (northeastern Minnesota). If you want to go lower, there are two rebuilt NW posts, one at Pine City, Mn and the other north of Webster, WI (where there was actually a NW and XY post next to each other). Jim - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |__| http://www.ecol.net/~lindy/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:45:49 -0600 From: Jim Lindberg Subject: MtMan-List: Ojiway recall 1850 tragedy From "The Vision" published by the St. Croix Chippewa. Sandy Lake, Minn -- Some 4,000 Ojibwe Indians trekked to Sandy Lake in northern Minnesota 150 years ago expecting to collect money and supplies the federal government had promised them by treaty. But when the tribal members from Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan arrived in early October, tired and hungry, they found no one there to distribute the supplies. Waiting for two months with no shelter and little foodd, 170 died of disease, exposure, starvation and other causes. After finally receiving partial payments on December 5, 1850, many headed home. But with low temperatures. frozen waterways and a foot of snow on the ground, 230 died en route. In 1850 the federal government ordered the distribution site moved from La Pointe (Madeline Island in Lake Superior near present day Bayfield, WI) to Sandy Lake. It was an attempt by the federal government to remove Indians from other areas into Minnesota. Hey, maybe this will put some of the bickering in perspective. Remember this list is part campfire, if it gets a little to hot, just sit back a minute and it'll cool down, there's no need to be fannin' the flames. My opinion. Jim - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- /`-_ Jim Lindberg |Les Voyageurs du Val du Chippewa { . }/ 724 East Grand Avenue | \ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA |Sweete water and light laughter, |__| http://www.ecol.net/~lindy/ |Until we next meete. Go Gentle. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 07:00:33 -0800 From: Randal J Bublitz Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Fw: poncho Frank, There were rubberized ponchos made in Mexico from very early on. The spanish used them in florida in the 1600's. raw rubber was painted on cloth. It was not vulcanized so was sticky , as Dennis says. It also dried out and cracked eventually. These are called Mangas now, from the place in Mexico were they are made. I had one, until it dried out so bad as to be useless. They only documentation I could find was a quote from Narcissa Whittman's journal talking about her 'India rubber pocho" serving as table and table cloth when spread on the ground to dine upon. This was in 1836. hope this helps. hardtack Blaming guns for killing people is like blaming spoons for making Rosie O'Donnel fat? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:04:03 -0500 From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dining Cloth Was Poncho "'India rubber pocho" serving as table and table cloth when spread on the ground to dine upon" Hardtack, This reminds me of a book of memoirs I have from Emmanuel Hatfield. He was born in the South Fork on Parched Corn Creek (Tn) in the late 1700's and moved to the wilds of Indiana in 1815 or 17 (don't remember now). But he mentions all throughout the book from his childhood with his family to his later years as ALWAYS having a "Dining Clothe" with him. Any time he was in the woods.. Just a square piece of clothe to eat off of. A little bit of "civilization" no matter what he was doing.. D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:48:34 -0500 From: palmer@netdor.com (Palmer Schatell) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: insults and bickering > > O.K., I've had enough of this crap. The worlds not bad enough >having to do things that we don't want to do, some of you live your >lives trying to make everyone else miserable doing the things we enjoy >doing. I know I'm a newbie to this list, but I have seen other hobbies ruined by the confrontational and I would hate to see it again. I wholeheartedly agree with you comments. Palmer (3-Coupes) Schatell - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:28:58 -0600 From: Monte Holder Subject: MtMan-List:Ft Osage & Arrow Rock(was insults) Randal J Bublitz wrote: > Is Karalee > Tearney still doing business at Arrow Rock? Might be a good place to > check out? The phone number I have is (816)837-3261from an old catalog. Being right down the road from Arrow Rock, the Area Code is now (660). I see Ms Tearney around from time to time at events in the village. Monte Holder Saline Co MO - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:35:35 -0500 From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Dining Cloth Was Poncho - ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Miles" > ...and moved to the wilds of Indiana in 1815 or 17 (don't remember now). But he > mentions all throughout the book from his childhood with his family to his > later years as ALWAYS having a "Dining Clothe" with him. Any time he was in > the woods.. Just a square piece of clothe to eat off of. A little bit of > "civilization" no matter what he was doing.. Hello all, Another reference to this practice (and from the RMFT) is on one of Millers paintings. IIRC it was titled "Trappers At Breakfast" (?) and shows a group of several trappers sitting around a large cloth spread on the ground waiting to eat. I also saw a reference to a Mangas in a journal or inventory in the xmission list, I wrote down the word to check on what it was but I'll be darned if I can find it now. Tim tjewell@home.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:08:13 EST From: Bvrlry@aol.com Subject: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous Are you going to attend the October doins? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:31:37 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Lewis&Clark and Mt Hood! In a message dated 2/20/01 8:54:25 PM, jlallen@wyoming.com writes: << The good captains made an occasional mistake--but missing these two landmark peaks was not among them. >> Thank you John! Through all that smoke.... I got an answer....actually several. I was curious how less than 10 year after the L&C walk in the woods, the hills were not on the map. Mebbe no proof readers back then.... Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:54:06 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous Being as how I now live in W Va., you can betthe "Mouse House" will be at the Eastern 2001.... Ad Miller Alderson, WV > Are you going to attend the October doins? - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:47:20 EST From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: "Pioneer" lists In a message dated 2/21/1 06:10:11 AM, dbest@hydro.mb.ca writes: < time period, like 1850-1900, other than "old west"? > > Thanks! > > Jin-o-ta-ka (Dianne) >>> We are very heavy in lore and writings in this area as this period when the region was settled. Lots of publications and some videos, but you are going to find Brigham Young's name laced through much of it. Lots on pioneer trecks, daily life in the cabins and later, Indians, troops, etc. Interested?? RJames - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:52:54 -0700 From: Charlie Webb Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Saws Subject: Re: MtMan-List: AMM Eastern rendezvous I wish I could be there. But I will be in Great Falls, Montana for a conference on Native American Art. http://www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com/seminar_on_native_american_mater.htm Linda Holley Addison Miller wrote: > Being as how I now live in W Va., you can betthe "Mouse House" will be at > the Eastern 2001.... > > Ad Miller > Alderson, WV > > > Are you going to attend the October doins? > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:28:28 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity 18 Aug. 1833 - We saw some large bands of elk but our hunters were more conceited than good which I have generally found to be the case with the hunters in this country they are not willing that a new hand should even try, and are far from good shots themselves and commonly have miserable flint guns which snap continually and afford an excuse for not killing. Just an observation. Ducking for cover in Baltimore, Tim Tim, It's hard to tell exactly what was going thru Wyeth's mind at that point. They had been killing game in the days previous to the 18th, and the days after. It may have been that Wyeth was just disgusted with them, because apparently they were all drunk on the 16th. At that point maybe their guns were in ill repair. Possibly they did not have any good gun flints. It's a bit of a mystery. Another interesting quote was by Osbourne Russell. After he had signed on with HBC, he states that he wishes he had a rifle gun. (I'm paraphasing) They were short on meat and he was having a miserable time hitting anything with the trade guns they were issued by HBC. That statement alone would lead you to think the trade guns were of inferior quality, but HBC generally sold Barrnett Trade Guns which were the standard of the industry. But if you read on he states that the young Indian Lad he was hunting with was a dead shot with the trade guns, which leads me to believe Russell just wasn't a very good shot with a trade gun. Historical quotes are interesting because you never know exactly what the author was thinking at that particular time. Sometimes I wonder if the author was just having a lousy day . Just my thoughts. Pendleton - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:31:56 -0500 From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity - ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry pendleton" Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:28 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Flintlock popularity Larry, I threw that out as a combination of a little "dig" at flintlockers (don't jump on me...I'm in the middle of deciding on my first flintlock purchase) and because I found it interesting that Nat had such a strong opinion at such an early point in caplock history. > It's hard to tell exactly what was going thru Wyeth's mind at that point. > They had been killing game in the days previous to the 18th, and the days > after. It may have been that Wyeth was just disgusted with them, because > apparently they were all drunk on the 16th That is something else I was thinking about: They had been out over a year, it was before the rendezvous in 1833. I was amazed that they had any "liquor" at all at that point of their journey, much less enough to get drunk on. It makes me wonder how it was packaged and how many other parties at least tried to keep som alcohol with them between rendezvous. > Historical quotes are interesting because you never know exactly what the > author was thinking at that particular time. Sometimes I wonder if the > author was just having a lousy day . > Just my thoughts. Very true, kinda like trying to figure out whether someone is serious or joking on this thing and they didn't add any to help us figure it out. Personally I think Nat just had a big hangover. That research/documentation "bug" bit me almost as hard as the smokepole bug did. Still reading in Baltimore, Tim tjewell@home.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:50:14 -0500 From: "Tim Jewell" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp/end results Hello the camp, I ended up with the ties in the center seam, hemp/leather grommets spaced along the sides and leather reinforcement for a center pole if needed. I took it out back today and tried all the differant suggestions for setting it up. The neighbor asked what it was and thought I was nuts when I told him. He told me I could borrow his Eureka tent any time I wanted. Some folks just don't get it when you try to explain this stuff to them. Thanks again for all the advise, Tim tjewell@home.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:14:56 -0600 From: Victoria Pate Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Tim Jewell's tarp > > Victoria, et al, First, please note that both these set-ups can also > be done with no poles by having loops on the center seam, and using correct > rope placement. > >> If you (or any other readers) have a Panther catalog, check the page > on Diamond Shelters; it has diagrams. If not, and any of you want > pics, contact me offline and I will fax or mail photocopies of the designs. >>Both are very cool. Barney Hi Barney, Thanks for your explanation. I followed it up by looking at the diagrams in my Panther Primitives catalog. Having the option of using ropes instead of poles is appealing to me. Thanks, Victoria - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #753 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.