From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #777 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 777 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       MtMan-List: Rivercane& Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous -       MtMan-List: medalions -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: medalions -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane -       Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) -       Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane -       Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane -       Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings -       Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings -       Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane -       Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings -       Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane -       MtMan-List: Leather Breaches -       Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:02:55 -0300 From: "D. Miles" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Ole, You are correct about not all leather being braintanned that was available. Just off the top of my head that would be very suitable for clothes is vegatable & oiltanned. Both suitable for breeches. No chrome tan, to my knowlege. Natural tanned skins only. I guess alum would be okay, if properly broken & oiled. I have worn a pair of oiltanned leggins for years, a little warm in the Summer, but they have worn like iron, only now starting to deteriorate at the bottoms. D #1622 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:58:17 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) This would lead me to think > that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain tan! > YMOS > Ole # 718 Ole, I have come across enough casual mentions of "home tanning" operations going on in the Eastern US during and before the era of the RMFT to be convinced that many different types of "commercially tanned" leathers were available as an aside from "brain tan" for use by households/farms and as a "cash crop" to be sold or traded to others. Now if your replacing worn out clothing in the Mt.s it is quite reasonable to assume that it would be with "Indian dressed" leather. Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:41:42 -0600 From: Ferrell A Peterson Subject: MtMan-List: Rivercane& Falling Leaves Rendezvous Ho the list! The River Cane & Falling Leaves Rendezvous are, like has been said, primitive skills gatherings where you can learn everything from brain tanning (using both primitive and modern tools) to making self-bows, arrows, chipping arrowheads, primitive cooking, making moccasins, traps and snares, bow-drill & hand-drill fires, and the list could go on forever. These are not juried events. The emphasis is on learning skills that stretch from the RMFT era back 5,000 or so years. The instructors are truly some of the best primitive skill practitioners around. The Rivercane is held in April and the Falling Leaves in mid October. They are held at Unicoi State Park near Helen, Georgia. Your contact is Darry Wood. His phone is 828-389-6428. If you choose to go, you'll meet a lot of good people and learn a lot of new skills. Hope this helps, YMOS, Otter Poison River Party Pilgrim - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:56:55 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous In a message dated 4/3/1 07:37:38 PM, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes: <> Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would be willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts? No? Yes?? how will you trade? Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 16:38:10 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) In a message dated 4/4/1 06:57:19 AM, olebjensen@earthlink.net writes: << This would lead me to think that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain tan!>> Right! More than just Indians knew how to tan in those days. They were "slick in", rough out. Many started out the brown of the tannin and some were dyed to begin with. Others were dyed to cover up "stains & crud" that accumulated later (in lieu of "take it to the cleaners") If you want chapter and verse references - aside from "Rural Penna Clothing" - I pumped this out of Dave Kafton a while back. He has the references. Dick James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:09:30 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous > Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would be > willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts? No? Yes?? how will you > trade? Richard, Pose the same question to CaneRunner on MLML. He can probably get you some. Dave Kanger - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:51:38 -0400 From: Ikon@mindspring.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous Richard, Howdy relative. I have some rivercane that is cut down for arrows if you want some. Next time I go down to the swamps I will cut you a mess of it. Longest I can ship is 70". Frank - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:56 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rendezvous > > In a message dated 4/3/1 07:37:38 PM, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes: > > < (Rivercane/Falling Leaves Rend.)? Dates? Juried? >> > > Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would be > willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts? No? Yes?? how will you > trade? > > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 05:15:34 -0600 From: Joe Brandl Subject: MtMan-List: medalions Looking for a source to produce medallions for an event here in Aug. Need at least 300 thanks joe - -- Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:51:50 -0500 From: trapper@cillnet.com (Brad Everett) Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns? Trapper, Trek'n through time, backwards! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Lahti To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:58 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) RMFT . Now if your replacing worn out > clothing in the Mt.s it is quite reasonable to assume that it would be with > "Indian dressed" leather. > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:20:02 -0500 From: "Paul W. Jones" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: medalions Joe, Try Philippe Dewailly at Artisans Jewelry. He did the medallions for the Western at Pole Bridge the last time it was held on that site (a Gorget). Really quite the artist and a fourth or fifth generation jeweler, originally from Beligum. You may contact him at 512 452-7416 in Austin, Texas. Regards, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Brandl To: Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 6:15 AM Subject: MtMan-List: medalions > Looking for a source to produce medallions for an event here in Aug. > Need at least 300 > thanks > joe > -- > Have a look at our web site @ www.absarokawesterndesign.com > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:33:56 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Everett" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be > correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings > and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns? Trapper, How many examples can you find in the historical record (journals, etc.) that mention trappers etc. going Indian? Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 18:43:04 -0600 From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) I read somewhere that alum tan was pretty common. as well as veg. tan of all sorts and of course oil tan. the use of chromium sulfate in tanning came around in the 1880's Tom - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ole B. Jensen" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 8:50 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > Tom, > I have been silent for a while, but have found some interesting info. A book > I have had for a long time is dedicated to clothing used in America from > 1400 till 1900, In one section it shows uniforms and men's clothing wore > during the 1750's to 1800's. One of the uniforms was worn with "leather Knee > Breaches made of comercialy available materials. This would lead me to think > that there were leather breaches available that were not made of brain tan! > YMOS > Ole # 718 > ---------- > >From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" > >To: > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > >Date: Tue, Apr 3, 2001, 4:19 PM > > > > >Iam inclined to point out that the style my friend made his canvas leggings > >in, is more of a white man's gaitor type with no decoration of any sort. > >they are purely utilitarian in style. > >Tom > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Thomas Ballstaedt" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 10:52 PM > >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > > > > > >> Hi chris check the list arcives there is a lot of imfo. on russia > >sheeting. > >> I have a friend who does an eastern/lewis and clark personna. he made > >some > >> eastern style leggings out of some hemp canvas. they look damn nice. he > >> says he likes them for warmer weather and they are a lot lighter the his > >> leather ones. > >> tom > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Angela Gottfred" > >> To: > >> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:38 PM > >> Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > >> > >> > >> > "Wynn Ormond" wrote: > >> > > I see it in my four year olds play already, some teasing is meant > >to > >> > > distance and hurt but most of it is intended to breakdown barriers not > >> > > build them. But it might be hard to tell the difference if you are on > >> the > >> > > receiving end .. > >> > > >> > Yes. Impossible, even. > >> > > >> > "ALAN AVERY" wote: > >> > >> Ya got to have a sense of humour right? ...I know a gal who once > >> > dropped a toasted marshmellow down her cleavage, and has been known > >ever > >> > since as Sticky Tits!<< > >> > > >> > If she's still in the hobby, she must have one heckuva sense of humor, > >and > >> > I salute her. > >> > > >> > But I wasn't talking about newbies, or hazing; I'm talking about things > >> > like C. T. Oakes' problem. > >> > > >> > C. T. wrote that he made a pair of brown denim pants, for which he had > >> good > >> > documentation. His "friends", who surely knew about his documentation, > >> took > >> > to calling him "Carhartts" because they thought it was funny. Finally, > >he > >> > gave up and left the pants at home; the teasing had taken all the fun > >out > >> > of wearing them. > >> > > >> > For my husband and I, the teasing started after we'd been in this hobby > >> for > >> > a couple of years. We pitch a wedge tent to use in the daytime, but we > >> > don't sleep in it; we use our RV instead. So, at every event, our > >> > buckskinning "friends" would make pointed remarks about our sleeping > >> > arrangements. We politely explained why we weren't using the > >> > tent--repeatedly--but every day, at every event, the same people would > >> > bring this up. This went on for *two years*. After these folks found a > >> > couple of other things to harp on, we finally had enough. It just wasn't > >> > fun anymore, and we stopped going to events. > >> > > >> > We were told that several other folks were also teased to the point > >where > >> > they, too, quit this group. > >> > > >> > Your very humble & most obedient servant, > >> > Angela Gottfred > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ---------------------- > >> > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > >> > >> > >> ---------------------- > >> hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > > > >---------------------- > >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:46:06 -0600 From: Mike Moore Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Roger, I say the following not trying to start another war ("if mountain men wore leggins "discussion), but off the top of my head, at least three. Jim Beckwourth (lived with the Crow and dressed the part when fighting), Francis Parkman's traveling companion Reynal (a frenchman who had a Indian wife) and even Lewis Garrard (when having a new pair of pants made by Jim Smith's Indian wife). If you mention the half breeds whose fathers were trappers and white, but decided to live in the tribe and carry on trade with their fathers friends, (like John Smith's son) you could increase the number by leaps and bounds. I don't believe that most of the trappers used regular Indian leggings, but to say that none did in the west, is incorrect. mike. Roger Lahti wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brad Everett" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:51 PM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > > > So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be > > correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings > > and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns? > > Trapper, > > How many examples can you find in the historical record (journals, etc.) > that mention trappers etc. going Indian? > > Capt. Lahti' > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:41:04 EDT From: GHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) trapper@cillnet.com writes: << would I be correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns? >> Who is your "prototype," J.P. Beckwourth? It is a romantic scenario that you propose for your persona, but was it really that common or realistic. Maybe as a trader living among the Crow and actually working for one of the "companies," like American Fur Company out of Fort Union? Did the "Anglos" living among the tribes really adopt much of the native clothing? A native wife might want to enhance her husband's wardrobe with decoration, whether it be quill work, hair, beads, embroidery, ribbons, etc. If so it would probably not be his everyday clothing, but those garments reserved for ceremonial or dress up occasions. Many native women made clothing for various Anglos, but did they make native garments or did they copy patterns for shirts, jackets, pants, etc., from white examples? Native garments are often depicted, especially shirts, jackets or coats, as being "ill-fitting." Hanson & Wilson's "The Mountain Man's Sketch Book" Vol. 1 says that: "Mountainmen seldom wore Indian-style garments, which are poorly tailored...they wore... "skin trousers copied from cloth pants...Replacement apparel was made by friendly Indians copying white garments...." As far as beadwork goes, be sure to check the time period of your persona and then check the use of beadwork by the Crow for that time period. Maxmillian considered the Crow to have the most elegant clothing and that Crow women were most skilled at embroidered and ornamentation with porcupine quills. This is 1832 and 1833 and there is no mention of beadwork. Neither Catlin nor Bodmer mention or depict beadwork among the Crow in any of their works. Seed beads have certainly been around for some time, but I think you'll find that beadwork did not really become common or more prevalent until after the traditional Mountain Man period of 1840. I have been wrong before, so you might start your research with Allen Chronister's article on "Beadwork in the American West before 1850" in the Book of Buckskinning VIII and in John C. Ewers "Crow Indian Beadwork" (Eagle's View Publ. 1985). Let us know what you find out. YMOS Ghosting Wolf - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 21:54:33 EDT From: HikingOnThru@cs.com Subject: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane In a message dated 4/4/01 5:10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: << > Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would be > willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts? No? Yes?? how will you > trade? >> Our men's group at the church helps a quadraplegic man who has a "canebreak" growing beside his home...has been there for a long whil and is encroaching on his yard. I am sure he could let go of a few green stalks. How big? How long? How will you get them? I will see him this Sat a.m. and will be glad to ask him then. If he says OK I will cut them as I leave. Anyway, we call it cane and that type is used to still make fish poles...looks like rivercane...could be skinny bamboo. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:17:18 -0400 From: Ikon@mindspring.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane I am in the process of making up two primitive style bamboo poles right now. My wife decided that she wants to go fishing. That's great I said, but I sold all my poles. She replied that Mr. Primitive should be able to make a few, so I am. Hopefully I won't tangle with one of these 30 pound stripers that swim around the lake. Could be interesting. Coyotebreath - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:54 PM Subject: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane > In a message dated 4/4/01 5:10:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > ThisOldFox@aol.com writes: > > << > Is there actually river cane there?? and if so is there anyone who would > be > > willing to cut some for me to make atlatl darts? No? Yes?? how will you > > trade? > >> > Our men's group at the church helps a quadraplegic man who has a "canebreak" > growing beside his home...has been there for a long whil and is encroaching > on his yard. > I am sure he could let go of a few green stalks. How big? How long? How > will you get them? I will see him this Sat a.m. and will be glad to ask him > then. If he says OK I will cut them as I leave. Anyway, we call it cane and > that type is used to still make fish poles...looks like rivercane...could be > skinny bamboo. > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:27:00 -0700 From: "Roger Lahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > I don't believe that most of the trappers used regular Indian leggings, but > to > say that none did in the west, is incorrect. > mike. Mike, I think if you re-read my post you will not find me saying "that none did" is not in there. I am aware that there were some notable exceptions to the "rule" you point out above that "most of the trappers" did not use regular Indian leggings. (poetic license taken of course with the use of the word "rule" as a "loose figure of speech") The question was asked with specific parameters provided by Trapper and a "rhetorical" question by me was asked in turn. In general it is not considered the norm for trappers to wear leggings and breech clout as the plains Indians wore them so most "re-creators" shouldn't feel justified in doing so. Does that stop us from doing it when it is hot out or we just feel like doing it? Doesn't stop me. But normal wear by a trapper was quit typically European probably to the point that one was looked at with raised eyebrows by ones peers if anything else was worn. Don't saddle me with making a rule that "trappers can't wear breech clout and leggings". I just asked a question. Capt. Lahti' who is not trying to pick a fight either. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:07:00 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane In a message dated 4/4/1 06:55:24 PM, HikingOnThru@cs.com writes: <> How very nice of you to respond! What I am looking for is to be made into atlatl darts. If you know what that is - we are half way there. If not, let me introduce you to a whole new world of fun! Good darts are about 5 - 5 1/2 feet long and mebbyso 3/4" +/- at the base. In a bundle, they UPS fine. Let me know what - in addition to postage - you want for them. We can do $s or something from the Rockies we may have that you would like: White sage, Quaker Cabin Broom, Chert, Obsidian, Shoshones . . .. Let me know. I belong to the World Atlatl Association, myself so I chuck darts for the fun of it but also I help school archaeology groups, scouts, etc., build and chuck the darts. Trouble is we have only "sticks" and none of the cane we envy others "chucking". Thanks again Most sincerely Richard James 1576 East Canyon Drive, South Weber, Utah 84405 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 02:16:01 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane In a message dated 4/4/1 07:16:03 PM, Ikon@mindspring.com writes: << Mr. Primitive should be able to make a few, so I am. My rendezvous side-kick is in to Colonial period fishing - has a pamphlet on it. I got him some white horse hair for leader and now he wants to forge hooks. Shouldn't be too hard, using needles. The barb will be the challenge. The metal is cold by the time you get it into a vise so it has be be annealed and then raise the barb with a very thin, sharp chisel. Guess I'll find out this summer. Coyotebreath >> Hey - two new "handles": Mr. Primitive and . . . Coyote breath?? (Used to have a coyote. That breath is is a class by itself. Are you sure this is appropos for you?? Spaghetti breath, or . . . garlic-for-breakfast breath . . . . .but coyote??) - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 03:30:06 EDT From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings In a message dated 4/2/01 3:36:02 PM, chrissega1@yahoo.com writes: << References are made to russia sheeting for pants and I guess it was probably used as tarps etc. What was the weight of it, and was it cotton, hemp, or linen? On those same lines is there any documentation on the use of it for leggings? >> I don't see where anyone answered this so guess I will. As I understand it, "Russian Sheeting" was made of hemp...a little lighter than our common canvas. Blue Heron Mercantile sells it , 12oz 100% Hemp Sailcloth at $20 a yard, (A.K.A. "Russian Sheeting") good for breeches, gaiters, frocks, etc... Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 07:42:53 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings Magpie, How about a phone number and address? YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: SWcushing@aol.com >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings >Date: Thu, Apr 5, 2001, 12:30 AM > > >In a message dated 4/2/01 3:36:02 PM, chrissega1@yahoo.com writes: > ><< References are made to russia sheeting for >pants and I guess it was probably used as tarps etc. >What was the weight of it, and was it cotton, hemp, or >linen? On those same lines is there any documentation >on the use of it for leggings? >> > >I don't see where anyone answered this so guess I will. As I understand it, >"Russian Sheeting" was made of hemp...a little lighter than our common >canvas. Blue Heron Mercantile sells it , 12oz 100% Hemp Sailcloth at $20 >a yard, (A.K.A. "Russian Sheeting") good for breeches, gaiters, frocks, etc... > >Magpie > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:57:08 EDT From: ThisOldFox@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane > Hopefully I won't tangle with one of these 30 pound stripers that swim > around the lake. Could be interesting. My uncle used to fish for stripers in Ark. in the 50's or 60's. They specifically used long cane poles that were 10-14 feet long. They called them Calcutta rigs. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:05:38 -0400 From: Manbear Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Russia Sheeting and Leggings Here is the link to their website. Pretty interesting place. Manbear http://www.blueheronmercantile.com/ "Ole B. Jensen" wrote: Magpie, How about a phone number and address? YMOS Ole # 718 > ---------- > Blue Heron Mercantile sells it , 12oz 100% Hemp Sailcloth at $20 > >a yard, (A.K.A. "Russian Sheeting") good for breeches, gaiters, frocks, etc... > >Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:19:28 -0400 From: Ikon@mindspring.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 2:16 AM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: To whoever wanted Rivercane > > In a message dated 4/4/1 07:16:03 PM, Ikon@mindspring.com writes: > > << Mr. Primitive should be able to make a few, so I am. > My rendezvous side-kick is in to Colonial period fishing - has a pamphlet on > it. I got him some white horse hair for leader and now he wants to forge > hooks. Shouldn't be too hard, using needles. The barb will be the > challenge. The metal is cold by the time you get it into a vise so it has be > be annealed and then raise the barb with a very thin, sharp chisel. Guess > I'll find out this summer. > > > Coyotebreath > > >> > Hey - two new "handles": Mr. Primitive and . . . Coyote breath?? > (Used to have a coyote. That breath is is a class by itself. Are you sure > this is appropos for you?? Spaghetti breath, or . . . garlic-for-breakfast > breath . . . . .but coyote??) > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 08:24:33 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: MtMan-List: Leather Breaches Hello the camp! This is a quote( The Connecticut 1st Co. Govenors Foot Guard, Breeches and Leggins of Brown Leather) Pennsylvania Infantry (Buckskin Overalls) The Hardest fighting units of the Revolution wore Leather Hunting Shirts with Leather Breaches and buckskin shoes (Mocasins). The common color would seem to be Brown, there is also a mention of Buff colored breaches and green dyed leather Breaches. With the standard uniform of the Pennsylvania Infantry being brown leather there would seem to be a small industry making such garments. I also seem to remember from some writing years ago of leather pants being made in St. Louis and shipped to the far west for trade along with shirts, boots and shoes. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:22:13 -0700 From: "Larry Huber" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) Brad, Sounds like you've made up your mind to "go Indian". Are you "mixed blood" living with your mother's people? If so, you're probably not a trapper (or a "Mountain Man"). Indians seldom made a living trapping as much as the fur companies wanted them to. They had too much other stuff to do. Beckworth was mentioned as a possible role model. He did a lot of stuff! Made war on the Blackfoot and Lakota as a Crow and probably dressed the part. He worked at trading post on the Platte and dressed European when he did that work. Jim spent some time at Bent's fort down south in Cheyenne country, but you can bet he didn't dress as Crow then! Later he built roads and ran a trading post in California and helped found the town of Denver looking for gold. It's not enough to pick a personage but a time he worked in. I figure I guy would do what works. Livin' with Indians? Indian wife, relatives and responsibilities? Then your not a Mountain Man. Hell, you're not much different then a settler. A free trapper prided himself on being his "own man". They often started out (and finished up)working for a fur company before they went "free lance". Pick Joe Meek as an example. He had three Indian wives, his first being "Mountain Lamb", Milton Sublette's former Crow wife. He was fur trapper during the whole period and, although there is a nice photo of him taken when he traveled East all dressed up in semi-Indian garb, he could afford to dress himself and his women "American". An aside, packin' women along is a lot of trouble. Meek's first wife was filled in a Blackfoot raid, his second wife kicked him out of her lodge for drinking and his kids were killed in the Modoc raid on the Whitman mission. His last Indian wife and kids lasted him the rest of his life but that was after he retired to Oregon as a peace officer and settler. Chances are your "workin' clothes" are American and your party clothes have Crow quillwork and such. If you show up at a rendezvous with that persona, be sure your Crow wife sets up your tipi and has the food hot whenever you come back from drinking and shooting with your buddies! Damn few of us have that setup. (Well, maybe Crazy Cyote does, but he don't dress Injun either. We're happy when he dresses human.) Like the good Cap'n, I don breechcloth and leggin's when the weather turns hot. Otherwise, I wear my wealth: linen, cotton and wool. Just musin'. Larry Huber - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Everett" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > So, if I have lived with the Crows for a long period of time, would I be > correct in wearing and dressing in some of the ways that they do? Leggings > and a breechclout, maybe beaded in the traditional Crow patterns? > Trapper, > Trek'n through time, backwards! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Roger Lahti > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Teasing--a rant (was: Denim) > > > RMFT . Now if your replacing worn out > > clothing in the Mt.s it is quite reasonable to assume that it would be > with > > "Indian dressed" leather. > > Capt. Lahti' > > > > > ---------------------- > > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #777 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.