From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #875 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Sunday, October 14 2001 Volume 01 : Number 875 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: -       Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons -       Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons -       MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:16:32 -0600 -       Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons -       Display Notification: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:16:32 -0600 -       Re: MtMan-List: Womens belt -       Re: MtMan-List: Womens belt -       MtMan-List: Buck Connor -       MtMan-List: Re. Horses & Gunfire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Oct 2001 21:38:19 -0600 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Mark - Brass or pewter or bone buttons should work. If you need some = bone buttons, let me know what size and maybe I can make some for her. = Don Keas On Tuesday, November 26, 1940, MarkLoader@aol.com wrote: >Hello the Camp >I made my wife a split elk skin dress years a go. It is made of >two large pieces front and back that go to about the knees and >two piece that attach and extend the dress to the ankles. I >used thongs thru antler buttons with red and blue crow beads to >attach them to the upper part so they could be removed if she >wanted. The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? =A0How about the = crow beads? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:02:05 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons In a message dated 10/12/1 4:34:14 AM, pdkeas@market1.com writes: << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? =A0How about the cr= ow=20 beads? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader>> How about just ties? That is what you find on original Indian clothes=20 and "whatevers". If you will look close at that classic photo of Jim Bridge= r=20 with the big wide-brimmed hat, you will notice he is wearing a vest that has= =20 lost a button. Jim has put a tie in the button hole and replaced the button= =20 with a second tied-string. You can't get more authentic than Jim Bridger. Cheers, Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:02:05 EDT From: SWzypher@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons In a message dated 10/12/1 4:34:14 AM, pdkeas@market1.com writes: << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? =A0How about the cr= ow=20 beads? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader>> How about just ties? That is what you find on original Indian clothes=20 and "whatevers". If you will look close at that classic photo of Jim Bridge= r=20 with the big wide-brimmed hat, you will notice he is wearing a vest that has= =20 lost a button. Jim has put a tie in the button hole and replaced the button= =20 with a second tied-string. You can't get more authentic than Jim Bridger. Cheers, Richard James - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:15:31 -0600 From: "Ned Eddins" Subject: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:16:32 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C15330.DFE2C180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I am researching the Indian Fur Trade Era 1804 to 1843. If any of you = are interested in corresponding with me through this forum or by direct = e-mail, neddins@silverstar.com, please do so. My web site = www.thefurtrapper.com will give you a lots of information about me and = my interests...Hope to hear from all of you, Ned=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C15330.DFE2C180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

I am researching the Indian Fur Trade Era 1804 to = 1843. If=20 any of you are interested in corresponding with me through this forum or = by=20 direct e-mail, neddins@silverstar.com, please do so. My web site=20 www.thefurtrapper.com will give you a lots of information about me and = my=20 interests...Hope to hear from all of you, Ned

- ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01C15330.DFE2C180-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 17:18:16 -0400 From: Linda Holley Subject: Re: MtMan-List:Mark & his buttons I have been following this conversation for a while. Please do not use horn buttons or ties. Most these early dresses were finely sewn together or very carefully laced with THIN leather. Not these massive lacings and ties I see on so many Rendezoux dresses and pants. They did you some brass buttons, but they were decoration. And they were make from thinner leather than the heavy elk we see today. Like Mountain sheep or goat or what ever is bounding up and down those mountains out there besides wild mountain men and strange hunters. Antelope is also a good material. .......Oh! heck, just make here another dress and make that other one a camp dress. Linda Holley Linda Holley SWzypher@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/12/1 4:34:14 AM, pdkeas@market1.com writes: > > << The antler buttons have to go. Any recommendations what > > >to replace them with? Square pieces of red trade cloth? How about the crow > beads? > > >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader>> > > How about just ties? That is what you find on original Indian clothes > and "whatevers". If you will look close at that classic photo of Jim Bridger > with the big wide-brimmed hat, you will notice he is wearing a vest that has > lost a button. Jim has put a tie in the button hole and replaced the button > with a second tied-string. You can't get more authentic than Jim Bridger. > > Cheers, > Richard James > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: 12 Oct 2001 19:39:41 -0600 From: Phyllis and Don Keas Subject: Display Notification: MtMan-List: Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 15:16:32 -0600 This is a confirmation that the message has been displayed to the user. = Note: This is NOT a guarantee that the message has been read or understood.= - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 20:55:02 -0500 From: John Kramer Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Womens belt Mark, Nickel Silver (aka German Silver) is circa 1850. Per an article Charles Hanson published in the MFTQ back in the early '80's. John... At 09:37 PM 10/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >On page 31 of Hanson's Feminine Fur Trade Fashions is a belt with large >German silver disks. Would it have been worn pre 1830 or later like on a >reservation? >Thanks Mark Roadkill Loader ____________________________________________________________ "The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure." -- Albert Einstein - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 00:53:25 EDT From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Womens belt - --part1_3b.1ba1dfc2.28f922c5_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Thanks for the info I found the article in the summer 1981 issue The Museum of the Fur Trade quarterly on Plains Indian Hair Plates. It refers to a Seneca wearing them in 1830 and David Burnet describing them on the Comanches in 1820. Also they were painted by Catlin in 1834 on a Kiowa chief, by Miller on several Sioux and by Albert on a Cheyenne at Bent Fort in 1845. The oldest documented set of hair plate are in the US National Museum are brass collected by Gunnison from the Ute in 1853. John My pot may be used again this week end at the Fort Restaurant Thanks again Mark "Roadkill" Loader - --part1_3b.1ba1dfc2.28f922c5_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John
Thanks for the info I found the article in the summer 1981 issue The Museum of the Fur Trade quarterly on Plains Indian Hair Plates. It refers to a Seneca wearing them in 1830 and David Burnet describing them on the Comanches in 1820. Also they were painted by Catlin in 1834 on a Kiowa chief, by Miller on several Sioux and by Albert on a Cheyenne at Bent Fort in 1845. The oldest documented set of hair plate are in the US National Museum are brass collected by Gunnison from the Ute in 1853.

John My pot may be used again this week end at the Fort Restaurant
Thanks again Mark "Roadkill" Loader - --part1_3b.1ba1dfc2.28f922c5_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:38:39 -0600 From: "Bill Klesinger" Subject: MtMan-List: Buck Connor This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C153BA.138AF1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where is Buck Connor ? I have a message for him ! I have not heard from him in a bit. Dose anyone know if he is back on line ? Bill - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C153BA.138AF1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Where = is Buck Connor=20 ? I have a message for him ! I have not heard from him in a bit. Dose = anyone=20 know if he is back on line ?
 
Bill

 

 
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C153BA.138AF1E0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 09:26:31 -0600 From: "Ned Eddins" Subject: MtMan-List: Re. Horses & Gunfire This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C15492.4F71C8E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr. Newman, I am new to your group so if I don't follow the proper protocol please = forgive me. As an Equine Veterinarian, I learned not to be critical of = someone's horse, but since I no longer practice, I will throw in my two = cents on your problem horse. The advice on "sacking out" that you have = been given works great and should done when breaking any young horse. On = a seventeen year old horse, I seriously question its value. It sounds as = if your gelding has responded in some ways, but the problem is that this = lulls you into a false sense of security. Riding in the mountains, you = are going to get into wrecks, esp. with pack strings, and believe me, I = have had them. When this happens, the last thing you want is for your = saddle horse to be the biggest problem. To me, a spoiled horse, which is = what you have, is the most dangerous of any horse.by spoiled, I mean he = was not taught to mind at an early age. If you ever try to shoot a gun = off him, I would do it in chest deep water, and be sure to video it. = Have you considered why your good friend gave you this horse? The old vaquero way of sacking out was to throw the horse and tie him = down then do all of the new "sacking out" techniques.they did this in = the movie The Horse Whisperer, but doing it with a saddle on was = ridiculous. I have done this on flighty young horses and it works. I = have also done it on older horses and it helps, but you could never = trust them. If I was going to do anything with your horse this would be = it, but.. The best thing about sacking out the old way is if your horse = get tangled up in barbwire, it will stand and not fight the wire.=20 Let me make one other comment. As an American Quarter Horse and Paint = Horse Show Judge for many, many years, in my humble opinion the best = thing that happened to the quarter horse was the thoroughbred cross. The = old pure quarter horse was a squat, heavy muscled, piggy moving horse = with lots of lameness problems i.e. navicular. My horses have always = had just enough quarter horse in them to be registered. With different = ones, I have had ropes under their tails, legs wrapped in barbwire, and = been in places where I wished to h. I was somewhere else. The secret to = a good horse or mule was in Mr. Wynn comment.light hands and leg cues. Good Luck, Ned - ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01C15492.4F71C8E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Mr. Newman,

I am new to your group so if I don’t follow = the proper=20 protocol please forgive me. As an=20 Equine Veterinarian, I learned not to be critical of someone’s = horse, but since=20 I no longer practice, I will throw in my two cents on your problem = horse. The advice on “sacking = out” that you have=20 been given works great and should done when breaking any young horse. On = a=20 seventeen year old horse, I seriously question its value. It sounds as = if your=20 gelding has responded in some ways, but the problem is that this lulls = you into=20 a false sense of security. Riding in the mountains, you are going to get = into=20 wrecks, esp. with pack strings, and believe me, I have had them. = When this=20 happens, the last thing you want is for your saddle horse to be the = biggest=20 problem. To me, a spoiled = horse,=20 which is what you have, is the most dangerous of any horse…by = spoiled, I mean he=20 was not taught to mind at an early age. =20 If you ever try to shoot a gun off him, I would do it in chest = deep=20 water, and be sure to video it. Have you considered why your good friend = gave=20 you this horse?

The old vaquero way of sacking out was to throw the = horse and=20 tie him down then do all of the new “sacking out” = techniques…they did this in=20 the movie The Horse Whisperer, but doing it with a saddle on was=20 ridiculous.  I have done = this on=20 flighty young horses and it works. I have also done it on older horses = and it=20 helps, but you could never trust them. If I was going to do anything = with your=20 horse this would be it, but…. The=20 best thing about sacking out the old way is if your horse get tangled up = in=20 barbwire, it will stand and not fight the wire.

Let me make one other comment. As an American = Quarter Horse=20 and Paint Horse Show Judge for many, many years, in my humble = opinion the best thing that happened to = the=20 quarter horse was the thoroughbred cross. The old pure quarter horse was = a squat,=20 heavy muscled, piggy moving horse with lots of lameness problems i.e.=20 navicular.  My horses have = always=20 had just enough quarter horse in them to be registered. With different = ones, I=20 have had ropes under their tails, legs wrapped in barbwire, and been in = places=20 where I wished to h… I was somewhere else. The secret to a good horse or = mule was in=20 Mr. Wynn comment…light hands and leg cues.

Good Luck, Ned

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