From: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com (hist_text-digest) To: hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: hist_text-digest V1 #909 Reply-To: hist_text Sender: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-hist_text-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk hist_text-digest Thursday, December 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 909 In this issue: -       Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth -       MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       MtMan-List: List Owner -       Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       Re: MtMan-List: Snowshoe treatment -       Re: MtMan-List: looking for blackpowder club in Edmonton ,Albert -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas /Bedding -       Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       Re: MtMan-List: List Owner -       Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       MtMan-List: Season's Best To Dean and Friends -       MtMan-List: documentation -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas -       Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth -       Re: MtMan-List: documentation -       Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES -       MtMan-List: buffalo prices in montana -       Re: MtMan-List: Canvas /Bedding -       MtMan-List: documentation, reservation truth??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 16:46:12 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth Buck wrote ; I have to agree that aging a gun when it would be new at the time of your persona doesn't make much sense to me, I do wipe my brass with used shooting patches for one reason and one reason only - to tone down the brightness and reflection that you get in bright sunlight. Buck, I have done the exact same thing. Once you do that one time, all you need do afterward is just use the gun and maintain it. I think this was a common practice for the very reasons you gave. Pendleton " Freedom has a flavor, the protected will never know . " - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 15:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: Clint Garrett Subject: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES lARRY, I believe you'll find there was > little or no cloth or > canvas of any kind taken to the rocky mountains, in > the early years. I HARDILY AGREE FROM THE LIST OF GOODS TAKEN TO RENDEVOUS THAT OIL CLOTH WOULD BE RARE IF NON-EXISTENT IN SOME YEARS. > I have used treated canvas and homemade oilcloth > without any problems for > many years. In fact I have never seen anyone have a > treated canvas or > oilcloth treking shelter catch fire. I'm not saying > it can't or won't > happen. > the > knowledge needed to make > oilcloth, and I feel they did in climates where it > was appropriate. Besides > that, we just aren't nearly as tough as they were. > The very best of us > wouldn't make a pimple on Bridger's arse. Not > saying we shouldn't strive to > be as historically accurate as possible, but the > fact is we live in a > totally different world. I don't think it is wrong > to use a water-resistant > shelter in order to be able to get up and go to work > on mon. morning. LARRY, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE STATING, yet the problem or rather debate has been centered on authenticity of what we do. it is like my compromise in sewing non braintan items in artificial sinew because i'm lazy and do not want to re-stitch with waxed cotton thread or linen continually. or Capt. Lahti's compromise by using treated cloth. like capt. has INDIRECTLY pointed out to me. If i use waxed, tallowed, beeswaxed, or whale derived wax on my canvas i am almost as non period as his and others in their usage of modern chemically treated canvas. as far as your idea of our forefather making oil cloth, i doubt if they used linseed oil and the iron oxide/or burnt umber on the canvas before they left saint louis. it is most likely as baker stated it was a covering used to ship the freight in the early, very early years. i'm not saying someone could not have had one made while in the east like drumond or the poor comoner trapper. but it had to be a rare thing like beeswaxed, whale or bayberry derixed waxed canvas. it's like wearing florescant orange using a muzzloader on big game. when in a wilderness area with supposedly hardcore outdoorsmen out there do you wear florescant because it's the law or do yo wear authentic skins and other items? we all compromise the authenticity of the fur trade years or we would be poachers to the state as they were poaching on the tribes. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:48:36 -0500 From: "Addison Miller" Subject: MtMan-List: List Owner > Dean Rudy is the owner and caretaker, he also manages the AMM site for the > membership of the AMM. This site is provided out of the kindness of Dean's > efforts to get like mind's together, to share information and ideas as we > have seen in resent posts. On this note, since being "List Owner" amd probably primary moderator (it this is moderated), I think we all owe Dean a great big THANK YOU for all he has done. Even though I have been BP shooting since 1977, and an NRA certified BP Instructor, and been doing Vous and reenactments since 1988, I have learned TONS of stuff from here. Periodically there are wee-wee contests, but it all come out (no pun intended) in the end. Thanks Dean, for all the hard work.... Regards, Ad Miller Alderson, WV - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:12:39 -0800 From: "rtlahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES or Capt. > Lahti's compromise by using treated cloth. like capt. > has INDIRECTLY pointed out to me. Clint, I don't know why I'm bothering, but to my recollection I made it pretty clear that I had gotten away from using "treated" cloth for my shelter finding that plain cloth sheds water just fine. YMOS Capt. Lahti' - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:42:24 -0700 From: "BARRY CONNER" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Snowshoe treatment Spar Varnish, marine type that displaces water pretty good, John Kramer can probably tell you more Todd or may even have a better product that he produces. Take care, Buck Conner "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" Thomas Jefferson 1771 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Glover" To: Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: MtMan-List: Snowshoe treatment > Hello all, > > I'm refurbishing a pair of old snowshoes. Anyone have any suggestions as > to the best kind of varnish to use on the lacing? > I doubt it was used historically....what was used to help preserve the > lacing or webbing? Were they greased? I guess it's possible to use pitch, > but it seems that it would be quite brittle and break off. What are your > thoughts? > > "Teton" Todd D. Glover #1784 > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:48:37 -0700 From: "BARRY CONNER" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: looking for blackpowder club in Edmonton ,Albert Take care, Buck Conner "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" Thomas Jefferson 1771 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 4:30 PM Subject: MtMan-List: looking for blackpowder club in Edmonton ,Albert > Someone once gave me the E-Mail address and website for a > newsletter and gunclub located in Edmonton, Alberta Canada. Try Northwest Journal at: http://www.agt.net/public/gottfred/nwj.html > Also, does anyone know if Clark & Son Mercantile is still in > business. The website I had for them doesn't work anymore. > If you have their current website, or if they sold out and you > know the new owners info, please send that to me. Paul Jones in Texas bought the farm last summer from me, can be reached at: http://www.clarkandsons.com/ > Thanks! > > Traphand > Rick Petzoldt > Traphand@aol.com Take care, Buck Conner "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" Thomas Jefferson 1771 - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:15:30 EST From: MarkLoader@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas /Bedding - --part1_117.9b224e9.2952a3c2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The Chronicles of George C. Yount" while with William Wolfskill in 1830 in the Wasatch Range wrote: The blankets used by these travellers of the wilderness are of a peculiar kind, very thick and almost impervious to water- A small stream of water running directly through a corner of their camp, they found not difficult to keep open for the use of themselves and their animals. and a blazing fire was kept burning night & day in the center- With their Beaver-skins they were enabled to cover themselves and provide a comfortable bed. Thus they lay , shut out from all the world, while the storm was hawling around them, and the snow falling in astonishing profusion-- Mark " Roadkill" Loader - --part1_117.9b224e9.2952a3c2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The Chronicles of George C. Yount"  while with William Wolfskill in 1830 in the Wasatch Range wrote:

The blankets used by these travellers of the wilderness are of a peculiar kind, very thick and almost impervious to water- A small stream of water running directly through a corner of their camp, they found not difficult to keep open for the use of themselves and their animals. and a blazing fire was kept burning night & day in the center- With their Beaver-skins they were enabled to cover themselves and provide a comfortable bed. Thus they lay , shut out from all the world, while the storm was hawling around them, and the snow falling in astonishing profusion--

Mark " Roadkill" Loader - --part1_117.9b224e9.2952a3c2_boundary-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:55:15 -0800 From: "larry pendleton" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES Clint Garrett wrote ; we all compromise the authenticity of the fur trade >>OK. Enough of this B.S. ! Just what the hell IS your point ? Pendleton " Freedom has a flavor, the protected will never know . " - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 22:08:44 -0500 From: hawknest4@juno.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: List Owner thanks dean for the hard work---YOU DONE GOOD and yes i was shouting--- nuff said--- "HAWK" Michael Pierce "Home of ".Old Grizz" Product line " trademark (C) 854 Glenfield Dr. Palm Harbor florida 34684 Phone Number: 1-727-771-1815 E-Mail: hawknest4@juno.com Web site: http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/mpierce ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:04:16 -0800 (PST) From: Mitch Post Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES - --- larry pendleton wrote: >OK. Enough of this B.S. ! Just what the hell IS > your point ? > Pendleton > " Freedom has a flavor, the protected will never > know . " > I agree-EXACTLY what is your point Mr.Clint Garrett?? You make little or NO sense in most if not ALL of your posts. I have read and re-read you inane babble. You have been semi-agreed with, argued with and ignored. You have insulted nearly everyone. Where do you get off with this "holier-than-thou" attitude. Debate,discussion and disagreements are welcome. Lengthy,arrogant,"Fluffy" disertations are useless and annoying. Maybe you should start your own discussion group.... Not feeling too respectful......Mitch Post ===== "RIDE THE HIGH TRAIL-NEVER TUCK YOUR TAIL" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 03:21:55 EST From: SWcushing@aol.com Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES In a message dated 12/19/01 11:05:04 PM, hiparoo@yahoo.com writes: << Not feeling too respectful......Mitch Post >> Steady Red Dog.....steady..... Magpie - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:14:38 -0600 From: "Ronny Oswalt, Sr." Subject: MtMan-List: Season's Best To Dean and Friends Wishing the best of holiday seasons and a Happy Hogmanay to Dean Rudy. This list and the resources you have provided and protected for us are among the greatest gifts some of us misfits have ever enjoyed. Thank you! And to all others on the list I would like to thank you for making a better year for me. On Christmas day I will lift a glass and make a toast to all who are trappin' in this valley. Big Thunder Grenada, MS - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 07:29:54 -0600 From: "Frank Fusco" Subject: MtMan-List: documentation Buck Conner said, Buck, I sure can't debate with you on what was 'right or wrong' in the Shining Mountains for the RMFT period, but it is well written that in the Eastern states parched corn was a common staple for hunters, travelers, and etc. Period correct? Yes. Specifically correct for trappers in the [western] mountains? Unless they brought it or got it from traders, I dunno. Will accept your experience on that. Frank G. Fusco Mountain Home, Arkansas http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/ozarksmuzzleloaders - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:15:58 -0700 From: "Ole B. Jensen" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas Clint, I realy don't care what University's except as documentation, Mark Baker has done good work but he like the rest of us is revising his thinking constantly. In Henry Marie Brackenridge Journal he mentions the use of a sail on there boat, this would mean that sheet goods like canvas or Russian sheeting was used by those heading up the Missouri (Fur Trade) Tent's and shelters were used for centuries and were so common as to not be worth mentioning. As for Indian knowledge gotten from modern reservation period types I would listen to them but take it with a grain of salt. If you look at Catlin's drawings you see that some Indians would throw of there traditional ways in favor of white dress and technology within days of exposure too it. If you are going to make grand statements as you did in youre first post then don't be surprised at the response. YMOS Ole # 718 - ---------- >From: Clint Garrett >To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas >Date: Wed, Dec 19, 2001, 12:03 PM > > >> to give an example to the 'document zealots' the >> > lakota used to use split diamond willow mats to >cover >> > the ground of their tipis; but where is the >> > documentation either in print or art? >> >> How did you find that out. That was supposed to be a >secret amongst >the >> lakota! > >Capt. Lahti, > for documentation purposes of which the university >of which i attended accepts the quotes from >acknowledged authorities as reference worthy of >documentation. i lived in the tipi of bakers on rapid >creek in '86' while working on the base at ellsworth. >from there i made connections around rapid city where >i met a Wica'sa Wankan from Sharp's corner whom i have >ties with(?!?*#*###). in '87' i moved to cheyenne >river reservation to trap beavs and learn from the >descendants of the once mighty Lakota. i provided >choppa ota to the Larabee T'o'spa( forgive spelling >but if you know them you understand the meaning) in >exchange for rent in what was probly the last old >style log home above green grass on the moreau river >downstream from HUGE GLASS's mauling site. > in the years i have spent with them and returned as >a Lakota(if you understand the word) according to >Walker{author of Lakota Society in the early 1900s) as >well as the way they treat me which says more, i >developed a freindship and bonding with them. > as far as diamond willow mats being a secret i >doubt it seriously. it was just something non >observed evidently in any early writings.. when >many(ota) of their people saw my sincerity they shared >a lot of things with me that they wouldn't have >trusted with many of their own relations of today. >you know like pedifiles, drunks, commercial alledged >wica'sa wakan and other 'sell outs' of blood yet not >the 'red road'. in my experience among them, THEIR >RELIGION you do not print nor speak too openly about >in regards to the old ways. it is not the living camp >conditions of which they regarded as secretive >although the ray their culture is under would make a >novice beleive it was such. > >it was a young wica'sa and his aunt who acknowled this >to me upon which i found many elders confirmed. > > >but I suppose we should not >believe >our >> eyes when we see such lodges in old photos and up on >the Reservation >today. > >Not everything can be seen in a photo as the hides are >covering the mats as they did not want the moisture >roting those precious robes. >You are correct in your sarcasm of saying you should >not beleive what is on the reservation today. that >horse/buffaloe culture is gone, the remnants is all >there is. the res. system is built on lies and >deceit, to take everything you hear and see as gospel >is like beleiving everything someone released from >prison says. you have been conned many times if you >take the present reality as the way they were. >> >> the only >> > trustworthy sources to reference this may be cathy >> > smith or larry belitz; both advisors in 'dances >with >> > wolves' >> >> What did they have to say? > >Kathy and Larry know very well much of their culture. >i have not quized either of this. i left it open to >any of us to do so. i beleive in their research they >probly know this too. > >SECRETIVE ground covers!!!!!!!!!! someone beleived a >a snow job on them. >> >> . >> > >> > BY THE WAY THE BAYBERRY WAX IS A SEASONAL CANDLE >SOLD >> > DURING CHRISTMAS FOR RELIGIOUS RITUAL. SO YE CAN >GIT >> > YORE SELF DOWN TO THA LOCAL TRADING POST/ DOLLAR >STORE >> > AND GRAB A FEW. I'M SURE SOME SKINNER WILL WANT >TO >> > BLEND BEES WAX BAYBERRY WAX, AND TALLOW FOR A WET >> > RESISTANT CANVAS. >> >> Did the trappers only do this around Christmas time >when bay berries >were >> available? Why would some skinner want to add to the >weight of his >shelter > >THE point i'm making is if you want BAYBERRY wax the >season is now to get it at a dollar store(on the webb >it's $15.95)this is for those whom also use BEESWAX >and/or tallow on some of their gear. or if someone >stumbles upon a document whether written or an >interveiw with an acknowledged authority about it's >use. >if you ever hunted in the fall in montana and had your >leanto canvas freeze you would probly want something >that would not do so. since they moved so often in >trapping mildew and frozzen canvas it would not be >desirable. oct 10th of bow season it snowed heavy on >me at 8500 ft. moving that frozen canvas every few >days as they would have to as they trapped along a >tributary would not keep the canvas functional for >long. Capt. you have to remember they did this outdoor >stuff everyday not for only 32 days horsehack as i did >this season or intervals of doins. > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of >your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com >or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > >---------------------- >hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:02:30 -0700 From: "BARRY CONNER" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth Didn't realize you boys had that much sunlight to worry about bright brass in Texas, seems like its always raining, flooding or burning up from the lack of rain - smile Larry, I know Lanney will have a few kind remarks !!!! Take care, Buck Conner "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty" Thomas Jefferson 1771 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "larry pendleton" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 5:46 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Brass Parts-$.02 Worth > Buck wrote ; > I have to agree that aging a gun when it would be new at the time of your > persona doesn't make much sense to me, I do wipe my brass with used shooting > patches for one reason and one reason only - to tone down the brightness and > reflection that you get in bright sunlight. > > Buck, > I have done the exact same thing. Once you do that one time, all you need > do afterward is just use the gun and maintain it. I think this was a common > practice for the very reasons you gave. > Pendleton > " Freedom has a flavor, the protected will never know . " > > > ---------------------- > hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html > - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 09:33:04 -0700 From: "BARRY CONNER" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: documentation - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Fusco" To: "hist_text-digest" Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:29 AM Subject: MtMan-List: documentation > Buck Conner said, > > Buck, I sure can't debate with you on what was 'right or wrong' in the > Shining Mountains for the RMFT period, but it is well written that in the > Eastern states parched corn was a common staple for hunters, travelers, and > etc. He' Frank, Most parched corn being sold today (not all but much of it) is of yellow corn varity, when the correct corn would have been the old "flint" white varity that is documentated as you have mentioned, it was traded all over the east and even found as far west as the Mississippi settlements. Did you know that Jefferson was the one that brought, traded or purchased many of the vegetables we have today when traveling in Europe. He was the one that got many vegetables like tomatoes from France along with a number of different other types of edibles uncommon to North America. For a good research book see "Thomas Jefferson's Garden Book", very interesting reading and you'll be suprised at the different edibles he grew. Blue Heron Mercantile has been working on this for several years, problem has been supply and demand, can never keep a realible source. > Period correct? Yes. Specifically correct for trappers in the [western] > mountains? Unless they brought it or got it from traders, I dunno. Will > accept your experience on that. Out of the Mexico trade that came into the Rockies was a steady supply of parched "blue" corn soaked in a sea salt brine (Indian producers claimed it made the corn keep longer), it found it's way to the Mississippi in the East, to the borders in the North and West to the shining sea. Smith talked about seeing Utes boiling sea salt for this use and other uses in their daily lives. I can only handle a small amount of the salt, found if one shakes a bag of this corn for a few minutes it will work its way off the corn (like tumbling brass cases) then dump out the extra salt or better yet put in the corn in a clean cloth bag. Some will disagree, but if they read the book suggested they'll be amazed at what this man had going and how it changed even our lives. Buck. - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:33:09 -0800 (PST) From: Clint Garrett Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES capt., you are not bothering, due to my ignorance about scrolling to earlier posts on this site or/an maybe deleting your prior post of the said document; you should forgive me on the misquote. glad to be corrected by a definite superior enthusiast. 'incidently i am only interested in being as period as possible. to this date i have plain canvas(some dyed, some smoked from cold environment camp). for the record. yet i'm sure you agree that due to the ignorance of many of the prior trappers, some could not rite about the methods they used. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 14:12:34 -0500 From: "Double Edge Forge" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: oil cloth-treated canvas-COMPROMISES Clint, Today you wrote "" 'incidentally i am only interested in being as period as possible", but yet yesterday you wrote "my compromise in sewing non braintan items in artificial sinew" So which is it?? I am confused...Period as possible or waxed NYLON? Don't remember seeing any nylon on the trade lists... Mebby I missed it. . So if you are going to spout about being period correct, I would suggest you rid yourself of the word "compromise" and either do it right, or strive each day to do it better. ESPECIALLY on things you KNOW are wrong and not even close. If you don't care to take that path, shut the hell up. Cause chances are you are influencing someone that DOES want to make the effort to do it as correct as possible. And as I recall, you said it was pure laziness for using nylon... Sad damned excuse, if you ask me... So if you will, stay the hell away from my camp, you probably wouldn't find it to your likeing. Sincerely D "Abair ach beagan is abair gu math e" DOUBLE EDGE FORGE Knives and Iron Accouterments http://www.bright.net/~deforge1 "Knowing how is just the beginning." - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: Clint Garrett Subject: MtMan-List: buffalo prices in montana barry, for those future buff hunters. i caught an add in the missoula paper yesterday and today. Hunt or Haul: Bison cows, $500; Heard Bulls, $1500; Calves, $300 (406) 676-3068 anther today read; BISON FOR sale, you shout or live, price depending on size. 676-0896 wk days after 6pm, anytime on wknds. this is in the is within 20-40 miles of missoula, Rano i hear. Clint Garrett __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:44:38 -0800 From: "rtlahti" Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas /Bedding This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C18954.160D19A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roadkill, There ya go. Someone did use his beaver pelts to make it through a cold = night. Now the only question is how prevelant it was and was that an = emergency expedient or something done quite frequently. Capt. Lahti' ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MarkLoader@aol.com=20 To: hist_text@lists.xmission.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:15 PM Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas /Bedding "The Chronicles of George C. Yount" while with William Wolfskill in = 1830 in the Wasatch Range wrote:=20 The blankets used by these travellers of the wilderness are of a = peculiar kind, very thick and almost impervious to water- A small stream = of water running directly through a corner of their camp, they found not = difficult to keep open for the use of themselves and their animals. and = a blazing fire was kept burning night & day in the center- With their = Beaver-skins they were enabled to cover themselves and provide a = comfortable bed. Thus they lay , shut out from all the world, while the = storm was hawling around them, and the snow falling in astonishing = profusion--=20 Mark " Roadkill" Loader=20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C18954.160D19A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Roadkill,
 
There ya go. Someone did use his beaver = pelts to=20 make it through a cold night. Now the only question is how prevelant it = was and=20 was that an emergency expedient or something done quite = frequently.
 
Capt. Lahti'
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MarkLoader@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, = 2001 6:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: MtMan-List: Canvas = /Bedding

"The = Chronicles of=20 George C. Yount"  while with William Wolfskill in 1830 in the = Wasatch=20 Range wrote:

The blankets used by these travellers of the = wilderness=20 are of a peculiar kind, very thick and almost impervious to water- A = small=20 stream of water running directly through a corner of their camp, they = found=20 not difficult to keep open for the use of themselves and their = animals. and a=20 blazing fire was kept burning night & day in the center- With = their=20 Beaver-skins they were enabled to cover themselves and provide a = comfortable=20 bed. Thus they lay , shut out from all the world, while the storm was = hawling=20 around them, and the snow falling in astonishing profusion-- =

Mark "=20 Roadkill" Loader - ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C18954.160D19A0-- - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 12:50:53 -0800 (PST) From: Clint Garrett Subject: MtMan-List: documentation, reservation truth??? I personally think that is a mistake, lest they have something besides their "learned" opinion to back it up with. It is absolutely amazing the bs that comes out of our University "authorities" these days with respect to this country's history. But that is another subject. I TOTALLY understand what you mean, yet if we are going to base our credibility on documented sources, and exclude verbal accounts from accepted authorities or lessor authorities other than in print. it is like saying if so in so told you this at a particular doins, or you heard a witness say it on the witness stand that it has no weight. in present academia verbal comments are as worthy as paintings of the period in the present 'muzzleloader' mag a writer points out that even the paintings of some during the period are inaccurate depictions of the fur trade in some sense. i will have to get back to my home to quote the article for you. the point is that, writing, art, and verbal coments by authority figures are all subject to critism or we have to lie to ourselves into a beleif no one lied or stretched things a bit prior to 1840. it's like their are some whom react as if the u.s. constitution were handed down from mount siani when they reflect upon it. thus even with or without documentation sometimes you have to take things with a grain of salt. I am also skeptical of the "truth" offered by folks who have gotten caught up in "Indian" culture as learned on today's reservations. But be that as it may, it is another subject. Totally in agreement with you as i also question the credibility of reservation raised indians. but then we have all read of the past highly idealized honest oreinted integrety of the tribal members prior to the 'res'. example; Laubins in his Indian archery book, interveiwed some Hunkpapa veterans of the Custer annilation incident at the greasy grass. thease are men of a prior period, not born on the res. he asked them how they made stone oreinted arrowheads, they replied they never made them but found them at 'devils tower' which the 'iktomi'(lakota for spider) had left for them. correct me if i'm wrong i reflect something about elf or little people from that long ago reading. this is a plagurization on my part, yet shows even then what they told him was not nessasarily the truth. documents like even accounts from the BIBLE have to be weighed. by the way before anyone one starts a subjective war about getting offended about my comment on the BIBLE, i too beleive the book, yet question it, nuff said. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - ---------------------- hist_text list info: http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/maillist.html ------------------------------ End of hist_text-digest V1 #909 ******************************* - To unsubscribe to hist_text-digest, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe hist_text-digest" in the body of the message.