From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: The Rifleman's Fast Draw Date: 31 Mar 1999 23:06:56 PST What with the general flakiness of the world in general at the moment, I've decided to resend an old post of mine from years ago, with comment from one of our favorite Green Berets. Whether it's rain, snow, or just hitting that dusty old trail, there's lots of us that carry a rifle with the barrel down and the butt up when at sling arms in order to keep the crud out of the barrel. On Feb 6, Gene Gross -- Personal Account wrote: Hi Bill, [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Here's a bit of a trick that might help someone. > >If you're a right handed shooter, start with your rifle slung on your left >shoulder, with the barrel down and the butt stock up behind your left >shoulder with the Left elbow cocked back to hold the rifle in place while >the Left hand holds on to the sling in front. > >Sliding your left hand downwards and grasping the forestock, bring your >hand and the forestock across the body and upwards in a rapid 3/4 circular >movement. This causes the butt end to swing up to your right shoulder. >Grasp the weapon with your Right hand as it comes up, and you're ready to >fire. With a little practice, your Left elbow is allready properly >positioned in the sling. During this process, move your feet so as to >cause the rifle to point in the proper direction as it comes up. It's the >rifleman's version of the fast draw, don't cha know.....:-) This is a good technique. Let me just add a note or two. Keep your arm (right if right-handed, left if left-handed) out like a chicken wing. The butt of the rifle sits in the pocket formed there and the deeper the pocket the less trouble you'll have with any recoil -- especially true for shotguns!! Also, move the barrel with your eyes or head. If you move your eyes or head left, move your barrel to the left at the same time!! And focus your eyes on your target when you acquire it. If you've got your head on the stock properly, you should be able to shoot and hit the target properly!! Ciao, Gene [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Orwellian intrusion into home and family (fwd) Date: 01 Apr 1999 13:35:08 PST On Apr 01, Ed Wolfe wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Orwellian intrusion into home and family By Robert Holland WASHINGTON TIMES In a postindustrial society tending more to collectivism than individualism, parents are no longer honored figures. Presuming all parents potential abusers, the nanny state now sends out swarms of "experts" to monitor the rearing of America's children. The ultimate social intervention -- just one short step from state licensing of parents -- entails nabbing first-time parents when their newborns are still in the hospital nursery. The idea is that agents of social uplift will go into private homes to "train" these parents for up to 50 visits annually per family. Expectant parents are enlisted by being asked to sign permission forms at the hospital, where amid all the excitement of a first birth they may not be aware of the implications for their privacy and parental rights. Information that the agents collect from families will be put into a nationwide computerized system called the Program Information Management System (PIMS), which will contain medical and psychological entries and observations on family relationships. PIMS' tracking of a newborn's development could easily be linked with other preschool and public-school databanks currently being expanded. Eventually, the information in a comprehensive, permanent record could be shared with employers when an individual applies for a job. Presented as a way to prevent child abuse, this movement has far broader implications. As Rep. Henry Hyde, Illinois Republican, observes: "This is Big Brother intervention as we have never seen it before. It is a case of the 'village' mentality run wild. American have never experienced such intrusion in their family lives." The lead organization is the Chicago-based National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse (NCPCA). In a statement on their Website (www.childabuse.org), NCPCA leaders declare: "Parenting is too often a responsibility that cannot be performed alone. It is imperative for communities to support overburdened families with resources so that parents can provide their children with a safe and supportive environment." That echoes an assertion by first lady Hillary Clinton at a White House child-care conference that parents may mean well but do not necessarily know what's best for their children. On Oct. 1, 1997, The Washington Post quoted her as saying the following in support of public child care: "A lot of times they [the parents] don't know what is quality. If somebody's nice to them, it doesn't matter that they don't know the difference between caring for a 1- year-old or a 4-year-old." Mrs. Clinton and her Children's Defense Fund allies have expropriated the African proverb, "It takes a village to rear a child," in an attempt to justify sweeping intervention in family life. The key program is the NCPCA's Healthy Families America (HFA). It was launched in 1992 in partnership with the Ronald McDonald House Charities and the Freddie Mac Corporation, but as of Congress' 1997 reauthorization of the Adoption and Safe Families Act, the program has picked up major federal funding to go with backing from several left-wing foundations (such as Annie E. Casey, Rand and Carnegie). The federal act expanded Family Preservation and Support Services with $275 million for fiscal 1999, $295 million for fiscal 2000, and $305 million for fiscal 2001. "Unfortunately," Mr. Hyde notes, "most members of Congress were not aware of the inherent dangers in this program. Preventing child abuse is admirable and removing children from homes where abuse is indicated is necessary. However, using Family Preservation and Support Services to investigate every first-time parent in America in an effort to identify the troubled ones exceeds any authority previously given to any government agency." HFA is rendered more difficult to follow by being given different names in virtually all the 40 states in which it operates to date. For instance, in Georgia, it's called "First Steps"; in California it's "Welcome Home Baby" or "Safe and Healthy Families"; and in Hawaii it's "Healthy Start." In Virginia, the program is embodied in the "Healthy Families Initiative," which has operated mostly in the Fairfax and Hampton Roads areas, with General Assembly support of more than $1 million. As with the related federal Goals 2000, HFA often carries the label "voluntary" -- yet the NCPCA describes its goal as providing "universal home visitation for all new parents and intensive services for families most in need." It calls for coordinating the work of paraprofessionals and volunteer home-visitors with professionals such as social workers, public-health nurses, and guidance counselors. Critics charge that parents who decide they want out of the visitations could be reported to Child Protective Services and possibly even lose their child to state custody. While "high-risk" families are to receive more intensive and longer-term scrutiny under HFA than other parents, definitions of "high-risk" are elastic. Almost any family could be deemed high- risk, with risk factors like the following: "inadequate" income; inability of parent to cope with inappropriate child behavior (in the parent-trainer's opinion); overindulgence or "spoiling" by a parent; low functioning of parent due to various conditions, including being "too heavy"; and negative reactions, such as "getting angry" about a child's actions. Of course, social-service agents have an incentive to identify as many "at-risk" parents as they can, because that increases their budgets. What's going on in the guise of preventing child abuse dovetails with massive new tracking ventures by the U.S. Department of Education's research arm, the National Center for Education Statistics (NCES). In the year 2000, for example, the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study will begin following thousands of newborns through their 6th birthdays. Federal investigators will use birth certificates to collect the names of newborns, and when the infants are 9 months old federal "assessors" will visit their homes (according to the Dec. 16 issue of Education Week) -- there to "interview their parents, observe parents and children at play, and evaluate the infants' growth and development." Soon there may be a governmental presence in every home. All this will undermine the American family, not strengthen it. Robert Holland is a columnist and opinion page editor with the Richmond Times-Dispatch. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Perrine Subject: Instant Action Required Date: 01 Apr 1999 19:54:10 -0800 One thing this rule touches upon is getting all the phony data the CDC uses in its psuedo-scientific studies of why guns should be eliminated **Please forward this Alert to your friends!** IMMEDIATE ACTION NEEDED TO SEND COMMENT NO LATER THAN MONDAY, APRIL 5 ABOUT NEW FEDERAL REGULATION. A very important rule is now being considered by OMB. April 1, 1999 OMB (Office of Management and Budget) is now receiving public comments on a regulation to implement a new law that should give the public access to the data and research behind the studies used by the government to regulate our private lives. The taxpayers paid for this research, and we should be allowed to see it and make our own conclusions about whether it is valid or phony. The universities are very opposed to this law and comments currently received by OMB are 15 to 1 against the public's right to know. That's why you need to act immediately. The law was passed last year, but the OMB regulation will determine whether or not it becomes useful to citizens. We suggest that everyone write your own letter, using the facts in the following letter, which is self-explanatory. The only practical way to send your comments at this late date is by e-mail to: fcharney@omb.eop.gov (Please include your E-mail comments in the text of the message and not as an attachment. Please include your name, title, organization, postal address, and E-mail address in the text of the message.) -------------------------------------------------- Mr. F. James Charney, Policy Analyst Office of Management and Budget Room 6025, New Executive Office Building Washington, D.C. 20503 Dear Mr. Charney: I am writing in reference to the OMB notice in the Federal Register on February 4, 1999, where you published a proposed revision to OMB Circular A-110 and requested public comments on that revision. This pertains to the provision (sponsored by Senator Richard Shelby) in the Omnibus Appropriations Act for FY 1999 (PL 105-277) that allows public access to raw data from research studies funded by the Federal Government through grants and agreements with research universities and other institutions. I strongly support the Shelby provision because of its critical importance to the American public. It will enable the public to obtain, for the first time, through the Freedom of Information Act, the raw data collected and analyzed under taxpayer-paid federal research grants and agreements. Instead of being presented with only the conclusions of tax-funded research studies, the public will be able to obtain the basis for those conclusions. The Shelby provision is extremely important to the American public because the Federal Government funds so much of U.S. research. The results of this research affect almost every aspect of American life, from government regulations to public policy issues, both policy and economic, regarding the family, education, crime, drugs, guns, the environment, health and safety, business, tax rates, the Federal budget, and government spending. Without the ability to obtain the raw data from the research studies used to support these policy and regulatory decisions, the public cannot independently judge for itself the validity of the government's decisions. Every year, the Federal Government considers over 4,000 regulations. The total regulatory burden for the country is now estimated to cost over $600 billion. Unless those impacted by these rules are able to access the research data supporting the government's findings, they will be severely limited in their ability to engage in a meaningful debate. We urge you to issue a strong regulation to implement the new law in order to make sure that the public has the broadest possible access to federally funded research data. The taxpayers who paid for the research should be able to see it. Sincerely, Phyllis Schlafly, President, Eagle Forum *********************************************** For a link to the OMB notice in the Federal Register on February 4, 1999, please read this Alert on-line at: http://eagleforum.org/alert/public-access/shelby.html Eagle Forum http://www.eagleforum.org PO Box 618 eagle@eagleforum.org Alton, IL 62002 Phone: 618-462-5415 Fax: 618-462-8909 To subscribe to Eagle E-mail please e-mail eagle@eagleforum.org with SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. To unsubscribe, please send a message with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 _________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chuck S Subject: Fed Judge sides with 2nd Amendment Date: 02 Apr 1999 13:04:42 -0600 I'm hoping this is not an April Fool's joke - Chuck ================================================ Published in today's Houston Chronicle (State Briefs section) - 4/2/99 Judge Defends Gun Ruling LUBBOCK - A federal judge Thursday defended his decision to dismiss the government's case against a San Angelo man accused of breaking a little-known law that makes it illegal to own a gun during a contested divorce. Federal Judge Sam Cummings ruled that the statute in question violated defendant Timothy Joe Emerson's rights under the Second Amendment - which details the right to bear arms. Federal prosecutors argued that the right to bear arms belongs to an organized militia, like the National Guard, and not to individual citizens. Therefore, prosecutors said, Cummings should let stand the federal law stating that those under a restraining order cannot posses or brandish a firearm because it might pose a threat to the person filing the order. But Cummings ruled that "A historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." Emerson's attorney, David Guinn, called the case precedent setting. "This is the single most significant ruling in the last 65 years on the Second Amendment." Guinn said. "It's implications are far reaching because it says the right to bear arms is a fundamental right - just like the free exercise of religion and free speech." =================End of Published Story================== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: 2nd upheld (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1999 16:14:03 PST On Apr 2, Paul A. Miller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] [The Washington Post][ ][Yellow Pages Coupon Clicker] [Navigation Bar] [Navigation Bar] Judge Sets Precedent in Gun Case [Partners:] By Chris Newton Associated Press Writer Friday, April 2, 1999; 6:04 p.m. EST LUBBOCK, Texas (AP) -- A federal judge dismissed charges against a man accused [www.intellectualcapital.com] of breaking an arcane law that prohibits someone under a restraining order from owning a gun. [Digital Office] Legal experts said Friday the decision set an important precedent that could be the basis for challenges to other gun-control laws. ``If appealed, this could be the springboard for a definitive Supreme Court ruling on the Second Amendment,'' said Stephen Holbrook, an attorney who represented sheriffs in a successful challenge to provisions of the federal Brady gun-control law. ``That could have wide implications.'' The case revolves around Timothy Joe Emerson, a doctor in San Angelo who was arrested last year and charged with violating a restraining order after brandishing a handgun in front of his wife and her daughter. Defense attorneys argued that Emerson has= a right to own guns under the Second Amendment and that any law infringing upon that is unconstitutional. U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings agreed, ruling on Thursday that the Second Amendment right to bear arms is a protected individual right -- and not just a right belonging to an organized militia, as federal prosecutors contended. Cummings said he based his decision on a ``historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment.'' Government lawyers planned to appeal. Activists on both sides of the issue agreed that the decision could be the first in which a judge specifically called a law unconstitutional because it infringed on an individual's Second Amendment rights. ``This has monumental potential,'' said former state Sen. Jerry Patterson, who authored the law that allows Texans to carry concealed handguns. ``If federal prosecutors proceed with an appeal, this could be the case that the court uses to directly rule on the issue.'' Anti-gun activists, however, assailed the= case as an anomaly that will probably be overturned. ``No gun-control law has ever been struck= down because of the Second Amendment,'' said Brian Morton, a spokesman for Center= to Prevent Handgun Violence in Washington, D.C. ``With all respect to the judge, this goes almost totally contrary to all decisions on the matter,'' Morton said. ``This is a case that is screaming for appeal.'' _ Copyright 1999 The Associated Press Back to the top [Navigation Bar] [Navigation Bar] [No roaming or long distance charges with AT&T Digital One Rate! Click = for = details.][Coolfont] [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Time To Choose (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1999 16:37:03 PST On Apr 2, Exegesis wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] If you are a high school or college student, please ignore this letter and reply with a request for an application form for our intern and student programs. ________________________________________________ Dear Friends, Three times a year, on Maundy Thursday, Independence Day and Thanksgiving, it is my privilege to write to all Exegesis readers to ask them to support the ministries of The American Renewal Foundation.=20 =20 The American Renewal Foundation is a 501 (c)(3) Non-Profit Foundation Exploring Opportunities For Renewal By Upholding Liberty and Biblical Standards http://www.sm.org/ar I'll make this brief because your time is precious. As I write these words to you, the world, and the United States of America in particular, is in dire peril. We are waging a war of insanity, killing thousands of innocent people for no reason. Here in the US, in schools, drugs, guns and pornography are commonplace, but Bibles are usually prohibited. And Christian children who revere God's name are ostracized; much of the education system has been surrendered to the sickening delusion of political correctness and the defeated ideology of Marxism.=20 The judiciary, the electoral system, and the media have all become thoroughly corrupt. And the nation's leader has been exposed as a serial rapist, womanizer and adulterer, while dozens of witnesses who could testify against him lie dead. He has propelled the world into warfare and exposed America and the West to grave danger. We MUST do something to help. And we ARE doing something. So far this year, the Foundation's student program has received over 400 applications from college and high school students from every part of America.=20 We can't possibly take all these fine young people, but I am writing to ask you to help me provide a place for as many as possible.=20 This week, I received a touching letter from 13 year-old Richard Keller, who had heard about the work of the Foundation. He wrote to ask if I would extend our high school and college programs to 7th graders like himself. Richard echoed a phrase from one of my columns and asked who would be America's knight in shining armor. He said: "I'm aware of how corrupt this country is and I am ashamed to live here." I replied immediately and promised to try to raise the money to extend our program. So far this year, we've had over 500 applications from high school and college students, and we're already extended financially. I encouraged Richard to be a leader, and teach others. I reminded him that everyone can do something to help. "If I do my part and you do your part,we'll be proud to live here because we'll turn this country around," I told him, "and we'll realize who the knights in shining armor really are. They are us." Of course, young Richard is right. We can't win the battle for America's soul by trying to convert the middle-aged liberals who run America's media, film industry, public education system - and the White House and the Government. I don't expect them to help reverse the moral decay they have wrought. =20 No, but it is teenagers like Richard who have a sense of shame about the way things are. They may well be the instruments God will use to bring about change. It's interesting that a 7th grader knows what it means to stand up for what is true and right, but our national leaders do not. Richard knows the impact on his life of lies, hypocrisy and corruption, but apparently many politicians in Washington do not. So, as I sat down this morning to write you this letter, I looked at the options. We can decide that nothing can be done to fix the problem, and accept the final decline of this great nation. Or we can lead the way to defend what we know to be right by investing in a generation who can see Sixties values for the delusion they are.=20 That's our choice: we either follow the path to destruction or we lead the way to renewal. Many young people enjoy Exegesis (http://www.sm.org/exegesis) and they are among those who now turn to our new daily newspaper, Page 1 News (http://www.sm.org/news), rather than the liberal media. That's great, but the Foundation has unique tasks to undertake too. Last year, I told you about a new project called Restart. My hope was to help young people who, for one reason or another, had got themselves into trouble. We've helped at least three so far. A former gang member is now in college and has a steady job. Another, with a criminal record for petty theft, now has his own business and is thriving in a new city. And a third has seen his life transformed by a short stay here at the Foundation, with a steady job and the chance to save for college. Then there's our research. I can't begin to tell you how much we've done, but you will realize that a great deal of work goes on behind the scenes. Each time I write, or speak on radio or television, thousands, even millions more people learn what's really been going on in Washington. And as you'll agree, the first step in bringing change is to teach people the truth. And there's much more we can do with more time and money. =20 Everything I've told you about, today and previously, has been accomplished on a tiny budget. I haven't written to you since Thanksgiving, but I'm writing now to ask you to join me in this important work. =20 I work 16 hours a day. I desperately need help, but I can barely pay the bills now, so hiring a helper isn't possible. However, our intern program is more popular than ever, and that's a big help to me. =20 You've made that possible by your generosity and prayers, and I sincerely thank you. You and I have laid a great foundation for restoring the American Dream. Now I want to redouble my efforts and expand our work as time and money allow. If you've watched television lately and shaken your head in disbelief at what you've seen, now is your chance to actually do something to bring about change. I don't want to let Richard and his friends down.=20 =46or their sake and for the sake of the future of this great nation, please be generous in your support of the Foundation. Thank you and bless you! You're in my prayers always. In His Holy and precious name, I send you my warmest wishes and my heartfelt thanks and my prayers for a very special Easter when the power of the Lord's death and Resurrection will be very real to you. Remember, our God reigns, and none other. =20 Sincerely Steve Myers President PS. Another way you can help us - and save money - is to use one of ExTel's long distance services. We have rates as low as 6.9=A2 and 7.5=A2 a minute ( 5=A2 coming soon) - and the lowest international rates available! See for yourself at http://www.sm.org/extel If you prefer, you can now also donate to the Foundation by credit card - please see below for details. PPS. If you are a college or high school student, please ignore this letter and reply to request an application form for the intern and student programs. Please use this form if you like, and send your tax-deductible gift to: =20 Steve Myers The American Renewal Foundation Post Office Box 789 McLean, Virginia 22101=20 USA ___________________________________________ The American Renewal Foundation Reply Memo Name Street City, State and Zip Telephone =20 Dear Steve, I stand with you, Steve, in your efforts to lead the way to renewal. I promise to pray for your work, for financial provision and for protection. I am pleased to help the Foundation's ministries with a tax-deductible gift of: =20 =20 $5,000 =20 $2,500 =20 $2,000 $1,000 =20 $750 =20 $500 =20 $300 $250=20 $200 =20 $150 =20 $100 =20 $75 =20 $50 =20 $25 =09 Other............. I attach a check. or Please charge my Credit Card with the amount I have specified above: =09 Visa Mastercard American Express=20 Card Number ............. - ............ - ............ -=20 =2E............ 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Thank you - and may the Lord bless you richly this Easter. ____________________________________________________ Page 1 News: our daily online newspaper http://www.sm.org/news Exegesis=20 http://www.sm.org/exegesis The American Renewal Foundation=20 http://www.sm.org/ar ExTel: Wholesale long-distance services, with US calls as low= as 6.9 cents a minute http://www.sm.org/extel If you'd like your own business or a second income, you'll find= opportunities at http://www.sm.org/pp ____________________________________________________=20 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: THIS BEDEVILED PHENOMENON... (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1999 16:36:16 PST On Apr 2, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] << THIS BEDEVILED PHENOMENON By Viperfox Colonel Clinkton and his NATO alibis will save the global village by bombing peace into it. Look... Up in the sky... It's a bird... It's a plane... No, it's Stupor Man. The daily barrage of misinformation and boldface lies intensify in direct proportion to the mass-exodus in Kosovo. There are so many sad faces to capture on videotape now, that, an emergency session of the Joint Thief's had to be summoned. Their mission: to nominate CNN for the Nobel Grease Prize. But don't worry, be happy. The Commander and Cheat has promised, "The United States takes care of its own!" Indeed it does. Just ask the relatives of the Branch Davidians, Randy Weaver, and those related to the passengers of TWA Flight 800. They'll tell you what that is all about. Pay no attention to what happened to Vince Foster and the other 50 people or so who just happened to drop dead on Clinton's watch either. But perhaps President Pinocchio was making reference to his fling thing, Monica Lewdinsky, a self-made millionairess who made her fame and fortune the New Age way: by blow job. Or was he hinting about his rich friends in Peking and the Arkansas Mafia? No matter, the economy is doing great and Vice Humidor Gore actually gave us the Internet without charging us a dime in royalties. Come to think of it, ever since New World Order Sr., George Bush, was ousted, the Clinkton Administration has magically created 50 million jobs in Third World countries. We'll all sleep better now, especially those loggers who get to flip burgers instead of murdering "endangered" trees. And how will we ever be able to thank the little cock from Little Rock enough for the unforgettable reception the U.S. Marines received while delivering pizzas in Somalia? Granted, Haiti hasn't become a bastion of cleanliness yet, but it does have potential. Jocelyn Elders can corner the market on the island's condom distribution, and Janet Reno can provide CS gas to the children. Who knows, they might even tempt Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein to become a tag team on Wrestle Mania. Surely, they would be an instant success, especially with O.J. Simpson and Mike Tyson as opponents. So, what does all of this have to do with the current crisis in the Balkans? Plenty. The same barnyard freaks that are destroying this country are hell-bent on destroying another. The same liars who brought us Chinagate, Filegate, and Travelgate are still calling the shots. And the same draft-dodging hypocrite, who didn't inhale, is on a cultural cleansing rampage that would make Adolf Hitler proud. Why? It was Hitler who noted that "any alliance whose purpose is not the intention to wage war is senseless and useless." See the resemblance to NATO's role? Coincidentally, Hitler also said: "In the size of the lie is always contained a certain factor of credulity, since the great masses of people . . . will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one." Thanks to Congress, we no longer need to verify that; for no one has used this bedeviled phenomenon to his advantage more than beautiful Bill. <> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: US Rep. Chenoweth Sues Bill Clinton (fwd) Date: 03 Apr 1999 00:56:58 PST On Apr 03, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The men in our fedgov should hang their heads in shame. Does it take women to have enough guts to fight Bubba? Dallas wrote: > Hon. Helen Chenoweth Unofficial > U.S. House of Representativs Business > > Dear Fellow Americans, > > Do you believe that Bill Clinton should have to obey the law > and respect the United States Constitution? > > Make no mistake, if we allow Bill Clinton's EXECUTIVE ORDER > 13061 to go unopposed, there may be NO END to his lawbreaking in > the future. > > You see, through this dangerous Executive Order, Clinton is > trying to make himself America's "DICTATOR-IN-CHIEF." > > Let me explain. > > I have been a member of Congress since 1995. And I was elected > by the American people to write, debate, and enact laws that govern > our great country. > > The Constitution is crystal clear that it is the job of > Congress -- the Legislative branch -- to enact laws. > > And it's the job of the President -- the Executive branch > -- to enforce and uphold the law. > > This "Seperation of Powers" is critically important to our > Constitutional government. That's why we teach it to our children > as soon as they enter grade school. > > But Bill Clinton has forgotten all about the United States > Constitution he swore to uphold. > > By forcing EXECUTIVE ORDER 13061 on the American people, > Clinton is now claiming that he has the right to ignore Congress. > He's trying to take over both the Executive and Legislative > Branches! > > This as an outrageous and UN-CONSTITUTIONAL POWER GRAB! > > Bill Clinton is trying to enact his liberal agenda as a one- > man DICTATOR...accountable to no one. > > And if his scheme succeeds, not even Congress will be able to > stop his socialist programs and his shameful abuses of power. > > That's why it is so important for you to send your signed > 'STOP EXECUTIVE ORDER 13061" Petition back to me today. > > You see, it is not too late to stop Bill Clinton dead in his > tracks. > > I have filed an historic lawsuit -- that's right, I've taken > Bill Clinton to court == to try and stop him and his EXECUTIVE > ORDER 13061. > > You see, Executive Order 13061 deals with Bill Clinton and Al > Gore's controversial American Heritage Rivers Initiative (AHRI). > > AHRI would take YOUR hard-earned tax dollars and spend them on > a new, expensive federal bureaucracy to control rivers and land > across America. > > Remember, thanks to our Constitution and it's Separation of > Powers, the President can't spend any tax dollars unless Congress > has approved the expense. > > Wisely, my fellow Congressmen saw that AHRI was a bogus > program. > > It's designed to waste taxpayer's money and give radical > environmentalists unlimited control over America's rivers. > > And Bill Clinton realized that AHRI was not going to get > Congress' important "stamp of approval." > > That's why Clinton decided to ignore Congress, ignore the > Constitution, and ignore the American people. > > He signed EXECUTIVE ORDER 13061 and effectively began STEALING > your tax dollars to support his liberal program! > > Bluntly, there is no federal law allowing Clinton to create > this program. Also, it is un-constitutional in that he did it > without Congressional approval. > > I know what you are thinking: > > "How can Bill Clinton get away with this ?" > > Well, he shouldn't be able to. > > That's why I'm suing Bill Clinton in federal court. > > SOMEONE has to stop Clinton...and restore the Constitution! > > The outcome of this case is very serious > > If I lose, there will be nothing stopping Bill Clinton -- or > any other liberal President in the future-- from passing big- > government programs without Congressional approval. > > This could be a disaster! > Fortunately, I think I have a very strong case against > Bill > Clinton. > > But he has Janet Reno's Justice Department on his side, > fighting tooth-and-nail against me. > > And I have run up against some liberal judges who support > Clinton and his big government plans. > > One federal judge-- a Clinton appointee-- threw out my case, > saying that Members of Congress don't have the right to sue the > President... > > even when he is trashing the Constitution! > > Now I have taken my historic case to the U.S. Court of Appeals > in the District of Columbia. > > For the sake of our country, we must win at this level. > > Because if we lose, NOTHING can stop Bill Clinton. > > That's why he's fighting me with everything he's got: > > ** his attorney General, Janet Reno; > > ** his partisan Justice Department > > ** and all of his liberal judicial appointees. > > But thankfully, I have a courageous nonprofit, public interest > law firm on my side: MOUNTAIN STATES LEGAL FOUNDATION. > > You see, as a Member of Congress, I couldn't afford to hire a > team of high-priced lawyers to take on the hundreds of Justice > Department attorneys Clinton has working for him. > > If it weren't for the MOUNTAINS STATES LEGAL FOUNDATION > (MSLF), I would have been all by myself against the President and > his team of TAXPAYER-FUNDED lawyers. > > But MSLF agreed to help me with my historic case. > > And they agreed to do it FREE OF CHARGE! > > Don't be mistaken, this is going to be a very expensive case > for MSLF to handle. > > But helping the American people fight big government is what > MSLF does best. > > Still, in order to make sure we win against Bill Clinton and > his army of lawyers, we need YOUR crucial help. > > First, we need to show that the public will not stand for > Bill > Clinton's unconstitutional plot to make himself dictator. > > And to be heard, we need to receive an outpouring of public > support. > > Will you please send your most generous gift possible > to help Mountain States Legal Foundation pay for the many costs > involved with this historic case? > > Your crucial $50, $100, $250, $500 or even $1000 shows that > that you believe America is still a nation of laws. And that Bill > Clinton is not above the Constitution. > > Or if that is too much to ask right now, could you please help > out with an urgent gift of $20 or $35? > > It will certainly cost you more than $35 if Bill Clinton wins > and is allowed to pass any big-government plan he pleases! > > And remember, Mountain States Legal Foundation is a nonprofit > organization. > > So your gift to help this vital project and all of MSLF's work > is tax-ductible. > > I hope you can include your tax-deductible gift of $20, > $35 or more to help the great folks at Mountain States Legal > Foundation stand by my side in this important battle. > > Thanks for being someone I can count on! > > For America, > Hon. Helen Chenoweth > U.S. House of Representatives > > Make checks payable to: > > Hon. Helen Chenoweth > Member of Congress > c/o MOUNTAIN STATES LEGAL FONDATION > 951 20th Street > P.O. Box 1560 > Denver,CO. 80201-1560 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Suggestion: March on Washington (fwd) Date: 03 Apr 1999 13:42:11 PST On Apr 3, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >ATTENTION FREEDOM LOVING AMERICANS. >Let's not just talk about it. >Join in with the March on Washington 99, with True Blue and Liberty March on >May 1st 1999 Noon to 5 pm. Meet at the Ellipse(south of the White >House) Please pass this on to anyone you think would be >interested. Check out our website wwwMarch99.com, sign up for the rally. >Join the bus or carpool caravan - call 800-777-8127 for travel information. In >Michigan call 800-299-5888 or fax to 248-375-2895 >Call and listen to www.worldwebtalk.com -Nationwide Live Talk Show with True >Blue founder - Pat Cooksey, starting thursdays April 8, 8-11pm est thru April >15, 22,29. To participate call toll free 1-877 531-TALK or 877 - 532-TALK >JOURNALIST AND TALK RADIO HOSTS--- Let your readers and listeners know. We've >read about it, talked about it, now it is time to give them a chance to stand >up for it. It's time to cover this nationwide. >IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT CHINAGATE, EQUAL JUSTICE OF THE LAW (INCLUDING >PRESIDENTS) or other Clinton Scandals-- attend the Liberty March on >Washington, May 1, 1999. Contact SRUlrey@aol.com for details or fax me at >248-375-2895. >Over the years I have listened to many talk radio programs and have come to >discover the underlying rage many Americans are feeling about what is going on >in Washington. Individualy, people are screaming at their radios and >television sets. They ask, where is the outrage, why aren't people marching on >Washington demanding answers and why are we satisfied when we don't get them? >I read a speech by Charlton Heston that he delivered to Harvard recently. >Check it out on newsmax.com if you haven't seen it. The part of the speech >that inspired me was when he laid down a challange to his audience. When he >said...you must simply disobey. Peacefully , yes. Respectfully, of course. >Non-Violently, absolutely. I believe that time has come. It is up to us ,the >free thinking American People to make our voice collectively heard. It is time >for the Silent Majority to be silent no more. If we, as Charlton Heston said, >fail to act, "then we are by our grandfathers standards---cowards." So now is >your chance. If you want to join in please contact me at SRUlrey@aol.com or >fax me at 248-375-2895. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Research Disclosure Date: 05 Apr 1999 02:04:08 PST Last day for Research Disclosure Comments, IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUESTED! Please send the following msg to: fcharney@omb.eop.gov ****** Start msg ***** If the Public supports research, then the data from that research should be available to the Public. Thank you. ****** End msg ***** RESEARCH DISCLOSURE COMMENTS NEEDED Last year's omnibus appropriations bill contained an NRA-supported provision ordering the White House's Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to change its rules to require federally funded researchers -- such as the anti-gun campaigners supported by the Centers for Disease Control -- to release the data underlying their research. Unfortunately, OMB is trying to interpret that provision very narrowly and only require disclosure of data used "in developing policy or rules." That would allow anti-gun researchers and their government sponsors to claim that their studies weren't used in making rules, and therefore keep their taxpayer-funded data secret. The OMB is accepting comments on the proposed rule until this Monday, April 5. To make the deadline, you can address your comments to OMB by e-mail to: fcharney@omb.eop.gov. To read OMB's proposal on the Internet, go to: http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/EOP/OMB/html/fedreg/a-110rev.html For NRA's comments, see our website at http://www.nraila.org. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: "Know Your Customer" Update #3 (fwd) Date: 05 Apr 1999 02:08:52 PST On Apr 3, List Manager wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] PRIVACY NEWS UPDATE #3 THANK YOU AGAIN! for supporting our ongoing effort to stop "Know Your Customer". You are receiving this update because you registered at the DefendYourPrivacy.com web site. We strive to respect your time, and are planning no more than one brief update per week. However, if you do not want to receive further updates, please use the unsubscribe directions at the end of this message. IN THIS UPDATE: 1) FDIC & other agencies withdraw Know Your Customer rule -- but KYC lives on in the Bank Secrecy Act 2) Assistant Director of Federal Reserve Board says KYC is NOT dead 3) Flood of e-mail credited with stopping Know Your Customer 4) New online petition being launched to repeal existing Know Your Customer requirements 5) Quote of the week Here's what's going on in the fight against "Know Your Customer" regulations: 1) FDIC & other agencies withdraw Know Your Customer rule -- but KYC lives on in the Bank Secrecy Act As anticipated, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, Office of Thrift Supervision, and the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve (the "Agencies") officially voted on March 23, 1999 to withdraw their proposed Know Your Customer rule. This means that, thanks to your help, we have won Round One of the fight. However, in a statement released after the meeting, the Agencies reaffirmed their "...long-standing support for the anti-money laudering provisions of the Bank Secrecy Act." As it turns out, the Bank Secrecy Act compliance manual of the Federal Reserve still requires banks to implement a Know Your Customer program, even though the new KYC regulation has been withdrawn. (Check out the "spy manual" on their web site, http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/boarddocs/SupManual/) According to a recent survey by the American Bankers Association, over 88 percent of US banks already have Know Your Customer policies in place. In early March, the ABA called on regulators to not only withdraw the proposed Know Your Customer rule, but to dismantle the existing requirements of the Bank Secrecy Act as well. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) has introduced HR 518, The Bank Secrecy Sunset Act, which would repeal the existing Bank Secrecy Act reporting requirements that led to Know Your Customer. (See #4 below.) 2) Assistant Director of Federal Reserve Board says Know Your Customer is NOT dead. A banker who attended the Mid Atlantic Compliance Conference March 18-19 reported the following comments by Richard Small, Assistant Director of the Federal Reserve System, at a session on KYC: "Is Know Your Customer dead? No, I don't think it is dead. Do I think there will be a regulation? No. I would like to develop some broad based guidance [but] no one is going to let me talk about it for six months." Small went on to say that they would have to repackage it differently, such as "Enhanced guidance for reporting suspicious activity." He said they'll have to be careful how they re-package it, saying, "It's a marketing issue." He indicated that any future proposal would not be called "Know Your Customer" and would not use the phrase "customer profiling." 3) Flood of e-mail credited with stopping Know Your Customer "The FDIC's chairman, Donna Tanoue, said the huge volume of e-mail drove the decision to withdraw the [KYC] proposal," reported Rebecca Fairley Raney of the New York Times in a March 24, 1999 story (please see http://DefendYourPrivacy.com/nyt_2.htm). This suggests that the influence of e-mail on public policy decisions is growing. Some other quotes from the article: "It's important to note that a number of these e-mails were customized." Tanoue said. "They came from the heart." "Typically the comments we hear are packaged in Washington -- and these [e-mail comments] came from all over America," said Steve Katsanos, a spokesman for the FDIC. "We think it's pretty neat," he said of the Internet-based interaction. "You might well count on this being a standard procedure." "The e-mail and the traffic to the FDIC's Web site was driven through media reports on the issue in traditional media and through an online advocacy campaign [http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com] sponsored by the Libertarian Party." "Ultimately ... people used the party's advocacy site to send 171,000 comments to the FDIC -- about 83% of the e-mail that was sent." The success of this cyber-campaign has also been noted in articles and editorials in other major print publications such as The Washington Post, The Chicago Sun-Times, the Kansas City Star and The Arizona Republic as well as in leading online publications such as WorldNetDaily.com, Wired.com and CBS.MarketWatch.com. Visit the Media Coverage page at http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com for links to these and other articles about the campaign and Know Your Customer. 4) New online petition being launched to repeal existing Know Your Customer requirements DefendYourPrivacy.com is preparing to launch a new online petition to repeal existing Know Your Customer requirements. The petition will be directed to individual members of Congress and will ask them to co-sponsor the Know Your Customer Sunset Act (HR 516) and the Bank Secrecy Sunset Act (HR 518). HR 516 already has over 50 co-sponsors. Passage of these bills would repeal all existing Know Your Customer reporting requirements, and prevent similar regulations from being imposed in the future. For more information on both bills, check out our new "Legislation" page at http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com. An announcement and pass-along message for friends and family will be sent out as soon as the petition page is up and running, which will probably be in about a week. 5) Quote of the week - Editorial, Indianapolis Star "That such a rule [KYC] would even have been proposed should be of great concern to every freedom-loving American. "These are the tactics employed in socialist countries such as China and the old Soviet Union where the denial of personal privacy, individual property and freedom of speech are fundamental tools for the economic and political control of large captive populations. "Fortunately, many Americans were outraged at this proposal. Much of the credit must go the the Libertarians. Of some 253,000 e-mail messages, letters, and faxes to the FDIC, more than 170,000 were ... generated by the party's DefendYourPrivacy.com Web site." DefendYourPrivacy.com is provided as a public service by the Libertarian Party. To request information about the Libertarian Party, please visit http://www.lp.org/lp-membership-iform.html? To support this website financially, please visit http://www.lp.org/lp-kyc-contrib.html To join the Libertarian Party please visit http://www.lp.org/lp-membership.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE, simply hit REPLY and put the word unsubscribe in the SUBJECT header. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION that requires an answer, YOU MUST mailto:distribution@defendyourprivacy.com Replies to the List Manager will be deleted from our mailing list. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: EIA Communique - 4/5 (fwd) Date: 05 Apr 1999 20:44:18 PST On Apr 5, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -----Original Message----- The Education Intelligence Agency COMMUNIQU=C9 =97 April 5, 1999 + After more than a year of dithering about it, EIA has launched a web p= age. The address is http://members.aol.com/educintel/eia It contains the most recent communiqu=E9, links to the communiqu=E9 archi= ve at CalNews and EIA reports on the web, background and contact info, and a da= ily briefing which highlights a significant education story of the day. It is= n't fancy, but neither am I. Please visit, add it as a link to your own web p= age, bookmark it, and make it your home page. + In other big EIA news: currently rolling through the presses is EIA's latest report, Measure for Measure: A Magnified Look at Standardized Test Scores. Just as One Yard Below may have changed the way you look at educa= tion financing, Measure for Measure may change the way you look at standardize= d tests. The study takes test critics at their word and examines scores by = all the external factors commonly cited as impediments to fair evaluation of students. Over 20 tables break down the most recent NAEP math and reading scores by gender, race, income, parental education, teacher education and experience, exclusion rates and spending. The results may surprise you. The report won't be ready for mailing until next week, but EIA will take your orders now. As always, single copies are free. Please call abou= t large orders. + The California Teachers Association State Council voted to spend up to $1.5 million from the union's Initiative Fund to gather signatures for it= s new initiative. Currently called the "Majority Rule Act for Smaller Class= es, Safer Schools, and Financial Accountability Initiative," the measure will= be placed on the 2000 ballot to reduce the vote needed for approval of schoo= l bonds from a 2/3rds majority to a simple majority. The Council members approved Version B of the initiative. Teachers, would you like to know ho= w Version B differed from Version A? Well, don't ask your State Council representative. He or she didn't get to see either one. Yep, your reps vo= ted to spend $1.5 million to gather signatures for an initiative that virtual= ly none of them has read. Have a nice day. + AFT President Sandra Feldman is upset about media coverage of educatio= n and the teachers' unions. In an interview with Public Agenda, Feldman complained "we just get looked at with prejudiced eyes, and there's very little reporting on the efforts we make." Feldman undoubtedly prefers the cream puff questions she got from Public Agenda. Here are just a few of them: "Is there a bias against the teachers' unions?" "Have reporters become too cozy with critics of the public schools?" "Why are the unions often painted as obstacles to reform?" "Do you think the media helps to perpetuate a low-status sense of teaching as a profession?" + If Feldman wants better press, she should tell her local presidents to choose better company. As part of a "Day of Action" organized by the New = York State AFL-CIO, United Federation of Teachers President Randi Weingarten distributed flyers in front of the Union Square subway station in New Yor= k City. The flyers urged New Yorkers to contact state officials to protest budget cuts. Weingarten was joined by her AFL-CIO cohorts, Lee Saunders, administrator of District Council 37, and Phyllis Harris, secretary- treasurer of Local 1199 of the Service Employees International Union. Saunders represented DC 37 because most of the union's leadership is unde= r indictment, under investigation, or forced from office because of corrupt= ion, embezzlement, election rigging, kickbacks, record tampering, and grand larceny. The SEIU in New York City was home to the infamous Gus Bevona, who was forced to retire from the presidency of Local 32B-32J in February ami= dst charges of financial mismanagement. Bevona gave up a $412,000 annual sala= ry in return for the dismissal of a civil suit, but received a $1.5 million golden parachute from SEIU. + Let's try this class size thing one more time. On March 8, EIA recappe= d the history of class size reduction: that Tennessee's Project Star had sh= own significant academic improvement when class sizes were reduced to 13-17 students; that Californians had been told this number was not a threshold= , that class sizes of 20 students would bring improvement, and that the Maryland State Teachers Association was pushing for 17 students in its st= ate, saying "there is literally NO improvement" at 20. Today, Vice President Al Gore will announce that the U.S. Government is granting California a waiver, allowing the state to use $129 million i= n federal funds to reduce class sizes in junior high and high school. Why i= s this significant? Well, the federal money is earmarked to reduce class si= zes in grades K-3. In requesting the waiver, California Superintendent of Pub= lic Instruction Delaine Eastin asserted that further reduction in K-3 would n= ot have "a significantly positive impact on the learning environment." + Last week, EIA reported that a delegate from the Hawaii State Teachers Association had introduced a new business item to require the disseminati= on of an itemized list of HSTA employees' salaries, benefits and expense accounts to delegates. The list was to be categorized by job title, not individual. Updated information reveals the motion was "ruled out of orde= r due to legal opinion." It bears mentioning that those who issued the lega= l opinion would have appeared on such a list. + Hats off to U.S. District Judge Edward F. Harrington. High school seni= or Nicholas Axelrod Panagopoulos had sued the Phillips Academy in Andover, Massachusetts, claiming the prep school violated the Americans with Disabilities Act by expelling him. Panagopoulos said the school failed to accommodate his attention deficit disorder. Judge Harrington ruled that Panagopoulos' problem was not ADD, but laziness. His ruling blamed "a wil= lful lack of effort on [Panagopoulos'] part, invariably excused by a parent wh= o indulged his lack of discipline and who failed to support the school in i= ts efforts to assist him to do his work." + Quote of the Week: "We're going down the wrong track. We can't just th= row money at the problem." -- Maryland State Delegate Daniel Riley (D-Harford= ), a teacher, explaining his opposition to a measure passed by the Maryland Ho= use to pay hiring bonuses to new teachers. The Maryland State Teachers Association opposed the bill, claiming it circumvents collective bargaini= ng and undermines attempts to raise salaries for all teachers. # # # The Education Intelligence Agency conducts public education research, analysis and investigations. Director: Mike Antonucci. Ph: 916-422-4373. = Fax: 916-392-1482. E-Mail: EducIntel@aol.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: linzellr@datastar.net (Robert Linzell) Subject: Mises.org on NATO (i.e., U.S.) Warmaking Date: 06 Apr 1999 05:22:07 -0500 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - From the 5 April 1999 Mises Institute News: * * * * * In recent days, Mises.org has devoted space on its front page to debunking the case the Clinton administration has made for the U.S.-led war in Yugoslavia. Free markets and an imperial foreign policy are incompatible, so it becomes necessary for everyone who cares about the future of freedom to engage this debate on the side of peace. Other sites essential to the case against intervention are: http://www.iraqwar.org/ and http://www.antiwar.com/ which features Justin Raimondo's essential wartime diary. * * * * * "No wonder that all who have had something new to offer humanity have had nothing good to say of the state or its laws!" Ludwig von Mises Liberalism (1927) (Cobden Press, 1985) p. 58 - --Bob in Mississippi State Motto: Virtute et Armis ("By Valor and Arms") -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2 for non-commercial use Comment: Get my public key from iQA/AwUBNwngHu0M/FuXc0xJEQIntgCfXjEukZ4MMBFRWP5J9+/yj/5SVskAoK7+ l5pAUjaeXe2UyXqr2bO5PbZY =0feW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Give War A Chance Date: 06 Apr 1999 18:03:27 PST As a Veteran, (U.S. Army '66-'70), I never thought that I'd be making a suggestion like the following, but nevertheless, here it is. If anyone has an address for those guys who sing those parodies with the voices of Carvel, Kennedy, Spotted Al, Hillery, our Chicken In Chief, and maybe some of those peaceniks/recently turned warhawks, please forward this suggestion to them. It doesn't matter to me who wants credit for the idea, as long as it gets there. Pass it along to who ever else might be interested, too, of course. With the above mentioned cast of suspects, do an individual rap mentioning their personal sins/pecadillos/traitorous crimes et al, followed by a short whine about needing something big, splashy, and long lasting to keep the news of them off the front pages of the Media, the boob tube, CNN etc. In between each one, have them come together for a rousing chorus of, "All we are saying, is give WAR a chance!" Finish it by repeating the chorus, over and over, fading out. When this comes out we should start a Nation Wide call in campaign to our favorite Rock/Country music Stations, MTV et al, requesting it over and over, till it makes the Top Ten, and even Congress can't ignore it. As a kid I uused to hear it on AFN, but do you remember what gave the song, "Where have all the flowers gone?", it's big push right at the start? Does the following sentence sound sort of familier? "It has been rumoured that the Clinton Administration has forbidden all U.S. Troops and NATO Forces from playing or singing this song." When it comes out we should be sure that our overseas friends, especially those in NATO Countries get copies. In case you haven't guessed it, my sense of irony dictates that I won't be happy till I see the Whithouse surrounded by people chanting, "Hell no, we won't go! Stuff it up your Kosovo! Hey, hey, William J., how many kids did you bomb today?" Not neglecting to Pray that they wise up and start doing the right thing, of course! -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: "I can do any Goddamned thing I want, I'm President" (fwd) Date: 08 Apr 1999 15:48:58 -0500 (CDT) Away from public eye, Bill Clinton is a violent, profane man who wants to "kill" his enemies By DOUG THOMPSON CHB Away from the public eye and the vaunted White House spin machine, President Bill Clinton is a vulgar, vengeful man who believes in "killing" people try to hurt him, those who know Clinton best say. White House staffers, Clinton confidants and others describe Clinton as "incredibly profane" and "an angry man who wants to inflict as much pain as possible on his enemies." Former White House senior staff member George Stephanopoulos in his book, All Too Human, writes about Clinton's mishandling of the Somalia crisis and shows the depth of the President's violent emotions: "'We're not inflicting pain on these fuckers,' Clinton said, softly at first. 'When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers.' Then, with his face reddening, his voice rising, and his fist pounding his thigh, he leaned into Tony [Lake], as if it was his fault. 'I believe in killing people who try to hurt you. And I can't believe we're being pushed around by these two-bit pricks.'" Those who have known Clinton since his days in Arkansas say the quote is "vintage Bill." "Only an idiot would buy the public persona of Bill Clinton," says Walter Erricson, a retired reporter who covered Clinton in his early political days in Arkansas. "He is an incredibly profane individual. He is now and always has been an angry man who wants to inflict as much pain as possible on his enemies." White House staff members say Clinton curses like a sailor, has temper tantrums that cause people to back away from him and uses the word "kill" often to describe what he wants to do with his enemies. "Once, when the House was finishing up its impeachment investigation, the President slammed his fist down on the table and said 'I'd like to kill all of these sons of bitches and just be done with it!' There was a long, painful period of silence until he regained his composure. Then everybody went on like it was never said," says one former White House staffer. Samuel Wilson, a former political worker in Clinton's second campaign for governor, remembers the candidate encountering a critic at a campaign appearance in a small town. After the critic told Clinton he was nothing but a "two-bit politician" and then walked away, Clinton turned to a campaign aide and said "write down the name of that motherfucker. When I'm back in office, he's a dead man." "I remember his look. It was cold," Wilson said. "I don't want to think he wanted to kill him literally, but I'm sure some sort of revenge was inflicted later on." In fact, it was fear of what Attorney General Bill Clinton could do to her business that kept nursing home operator Juanita Broaddrick from reporting Clinton's rape of her 21 years ago in a Little Rock hotel room. "Her fears were justified," says retired reporter Erricson. "Everybody knew Bill Clinton was a man who got even, any way he could." Helen Shannon, who worked in the Arkansas Statehouse during Clinton's second term as governor, said the governor would personally order state contracts canceled when he got angry with people. "The word would come down from the governor's office that somebody was off limits and we would cancel their contracts and put them on a 'don't use' list. It happened a lot," she says. Shannon, who was dating a member of Clinton's staff, says Clinton would order audits of contracts and tell the the Arkansas State Police to "turn up the heat" on somebody he didn't like. "When Bill Clinton ran Arkansas, it was a police state," she says. White House staff members tell similar stories. At one meeting, Clinton told staff members he wanted everyone in the Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr's office audited by the IRS. "Several people in the meeting told the President he shouldn't do that," the staff member remember. "He slammed his fist down on the table and said: 'I can do any Goddamned thing I want. I'm President of the United States. I take care of my friends and I fuck with my enemies. That's the way it is. Anybody who doesn't like it can take a hike." The White House did not return calls for comment. TPDL (THE POLITICAL DIGEST LITE) which will average about 50 K and will be selected articles out of the TPD. To receive THE POLITICAL DIGEST LITE just send an e-mail message with the word subscribe TPDL in the subject line to tpd@callamerica.net. To stop receiving the TPDL just send an e-mail message with Unsubscribe TPDL or in the subject line to tpd@callamerica.net. Thank you. No Charge, it's FREE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: McGehee's News & Comment - April 6, 1999 (fwd) Date: 08 Apr 1999 14:25:59 PST On Apr 8, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT (c) 1999 KEVIN McGEHEE North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ THE QUAGMIRE I remember it as "The Weinberger Doctrine." It was a set of rules for military action set forth during the Reagan years, publicly stated, as I recall, by then-Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger. Among the criteria were such considerations as whether the action would defend or promote a substantial national interest of the United States; whether victory has been defined so that the operation can be judged objectively once underway; whether victory is *achievable;* whether all other means of achieving the desired result had been fully explored and reasonably eliminated first; and whether the nuts-and-bolts decision-making would be left to the military commanders rather than being driven by political expediency. This doctrine was applied in such successful military engagements as the liberation of Grenada in 1983, and in Desert Storm in 1991. And so, when I am faced with the question of whether to support the present "NATO" air war against the Federal Republic of Serbia and Suburbia, I have to look at it in terms of the Weinberger Doctrine. * Does our action defend or promote a substantial national interest of the United States? The justification of the air campaign has been offered in terms of humanitarian concerns. Of course the American people have an interest in achieving humanitarian goals around the world. We're a good-hearted people and this is one of our most formidable strengths. But this nebulous interest doesn't fall under the heading of the kind of substantial national interest that justifies killing people and breaking things. It has also been suggested that if Slobodan Milosevic isn't stopped, the fighting in the Balkans will spread to embroil all of Europe in a general conflagration. This, if true, would justify taking action -- but look at who's trying to sell this justification: Bill Clinton. My money is on the dire forecast being about as true as his denials of wrongdoing in the Lewinsky business. Meanwhile our nation's tangible military and intangible diplomatic resources are being squandered in an action whose justification, when you get right down to it, is basic post-modern American feel-good-ism. All in all, the answer to this question is, There is no substantial U.S. national interest at stake in Kosovo. * Has victory been defined in a meaningful way? Again, the fog of feel-good foreign policy has done its damage. Given the answer to the question above, it is simply not possible to define victory except in the vaguest, most malleable terms. Given this administration's penchant for redefining its words to suit its aims, we can reasonably expect that if Serbia were to keep Kosovo, annex Albania, annihilate Greece and Turkey, and cause the utter collapse of NATO, Bill Clinton would find a way to declare victory. * Is victory achievable? It depends on what your definition of the word "is" is. Yet even if victory *had* been properly defined, the morale of our military personnel is at its lowest since the fall of Saigon, and our gee-whiz high-tech gimcrackery that so effectively pants-ed Saddam Hussein eight years ago is nearly depleted and *is not being replenished.* * Have all other options been seriously explored and eliminated first? According to published reports, Clinton's military advisors were arguing, without effect, that the best thing to do at this juncture was not to initiate military action but to impose economic sanctions and other diplomatic alternatives. In all likelihood, these moves would have had little effect on Milosevic's intentions, but we do know that the Serbian people were growing increasingly restive about Slobo, and the NATO attacks have only sent his job approval rating almost as high as Clinton's were during his impeachment trial. Given more time, Milosevic might very well have found himself out of a job without our firing a shot. * Will the details be decided by military planners or by politicians? Taking a page out of LBJ's book on Vietnam, Clinton has been involved in the selection of targets for individual missions. This is a bad idea when the politician is a sensible, trustworthy fellow. When it's Clinton, buy stock in a bomb shelter company. And this last point brings to the fore the primary reason why I can't support the Kosovo operation. Our men and women in uniform are in harm's way at the instigation and under the direction of a man whose mental stability has now become a question seriously discussed in Big Media. It's about time we all admitted that Bill Clinton thinks the way he talks. That is not a mark of sanity. Still more frightening is the prospect that, when Congress reconvenes, the Republican leadership will begin to speak openly against Mr. Clinton's big adventure. If history is any guide, support for the introduction of ground troops, already said to be high due to a phony poll perpetrated by a partisan Democrat polling outfit, can be expected at that point to hit 105% -- with a solid majority in favor of reinstating the draft. Used to be, where Clinton was involved, you only had to lock up your daughters. -30- April 6, 1999 ================================================================ **Visit the McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT archives** http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/news&comment/ The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Perrine Subject: Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records Date: 08 Apr 1999 20:37:04 -0700 Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records April 7, 1999 by: Phyllis Schlafly While the American people were trying to kill the FDIC Know Your Customer plan to monitor our financial records, the Clintonites have been moving steadily and craftily to grab access to our health records. Just as local bankers were to have been coopted to spy on our bank accounts, the Administration is using two groups, home health providers and senior citizens, to spy on our medical records and forward all sorts of personal data to government databases. The pretext for these overreaching regulations is to uncover "fraud and abuse." But the methodology is to monitor all law-abiding citizens under the supposition that any of us might be doing something criminal. The new regulation to force 9,000 home health care agencies to collect and report sensitive information about all their patients was issued by the powerful federal agency called HCFA (Health Care Financing Administration). OASIS (Outcome and Assessment Information Set) is the cutesy name for this latest venture into Big Brotherism. Under OASIS, home health providers must interrogate ALL their patients, not merely those whose bills are being paid by the government through Medicare or Medicaid, exempting only children under age 18 and pre- and post-natal mothers. The government is thus reaching out to grab the medical records of patients whose medical bills are paid by private sources, i.e., not paid by the government. The 12-page fine-print form that home health care providers must fill out on each patient is extraordinarily detailed, offensively privacy-invading to the patient, and obviously exhausting and time-consuming for the employee conducting the interrogation. Curiously, this mandatory government form carries a copyright notice on every page, probably to prevent commentators like me from making copies and alerting the public to this new evidence of the Clintonites' efforts to collect information that is none of the government's business. The questionnaire isn't just about medical history, treatment and medications. Questions must be answered on race, ethnicity, family, whether you own or rent your residence, whom you live with, your finances, and your psychological attitude and behavior, of course, all tied into your Social Security number. There's much more. The questionnaire demands information on your mental state, your depression, your tobacco and alcohol use, your obesity, your bathing and eating practices, and your lack of motivation, unrealistic expectations, indecisiveness, suicide attempts, and life expectancy. The form asks if you make grammar mistakes, or use "excessive profanity" or "sexual references," and it has 53 boxes to be filled out on toilet and "elimination" performance. The home health care interrogator is instructed how to win the patient's trust before asking these nosy questions. If the patient refuses to answer any questions, the home health care employee is told to insert his own "observations." There is no provision for voluntary informed consent on the part of the patient, or that he be told that his responses will be logged onto government databases. Home health providers must obey HCFA directives under penalty of not getting paid for their Medicare patients. These forms must be filled out every time a home health care provider enrolls a new patient, and then revised every 60 days. Data are sent electronically to computers at state agencies and then to HCFA's database. It was the 1996 Kennedy- Kassebaum Act (which Bob Dole bragged about passing) that legislated the framework for a federal system of collecting and sharing medical records identified by a unique number for each patient. The OASIS regulation is another step to implement one of the original goals of Clinton's 1994 nationalized health plan: global budgeting, i.e. government management of all private, as well as public, health-care spending. When grassroots Americans found out about the Know Your Customer Regulation, they flooded the FDIC with 300,000 negative comments over a three-month comment period. But the comment period for the OASIS regulation expired March 26, and major newspapers didn't report it until 15 days before the deadline. The Clinton Administration's other campaign to gather medical records is a plan to recruit all senior citizens to spy on their own physicians with the goal of accusing them of fraud. Attorney General Janet Reno has made a public-private partnership with AARP to offer senior citizens the chance to collect a reward of up to $1000 if they file a report that leads to a monetary "recovery" from their doctor. If a senior suspects that his doctor has billed Medicare too much for a service rendered, the senior is supposed to call the toll-free "Fraud Hotline'' and report the doctor as a possible thief and crook. The harassment potential is enormous when 39 million seniors start trying to collect a bonus if the doctor's office enters the wrong payment code number on a Medicare form. It is probable that most seniors believe that everything they buy is overpriced because they grew up at a time when prices were so much lower. What a malicious scheme to harass doctors and destroy any confidential relationship between doctors and patients! Phyllis Schlafly column 4-07-99 *************************************************************** Purchase Eagle Forum materials at our new on-line store! http://www.eagleforum.org/order/ *************************************************************** Eagle Forum http://www.eagleforum.org PO Box 618 eagle@eagleforum.org Alton, IL 62002 Phone: 618-462-5415 Fax: 618-462-8909 To subscribe to Eagle E-mail please e-mail eagle@eagleforum.org with SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. To unsubscribe, please send a message with UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 _________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records Date: 08 Apr 1999 23:11:08 PST They've been asking about firearms in the home, too..... On Apr 8, Jack Perrine wrote: > Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records > > April 7, 1999 by: Phyllis Schlafly > >While the American people were trying to kill the FDIC Know Your >Customer plan to monitor our financial records, the Clintonites have >been moving steadily and craftily to grab access to our health >records. Just as local bankers were to have been coopted to spy on >our bank accounts, the Administration is using two groups, home >health providers and senior citizens, to spy on our medical records >and forward all sorts of personal data to government databases. > >The pretext for these overreaching regulations is to uncover "fraud >and abuse." But the methodology is to monitor all law-abiding >citizens under the supposition that any of us might be doing >something criminal. > >The new regulation to force 9,000 home health care agencies to >collect and report sensitive information about all their patients was >issued by the powerful federal agency called HCFA (Health Care >Financing Administration). OASIS (Outcome and Assessment >Information Set) is the cutesy name for this latest venture into Big >Brotherism. > >Under OASIS, home health providers must interrogate ALL their >patients, not merely those whose bills are being paid by the >government through Medicare or Medicaid, exempting only children >under age 18 and pre- and post-natal mothers. The government is >thus reaching out to grab the medical records of patients whose >medical bills are paid by private sources, i.e., not paid by the >government. > >The 12-page fine-print form that home health care providers must fill >out on each patient is extraordinarily detailed, offensively >privacy-invading to the patient, and obviously exhausting and >time-consuming for the employee conducting the interrogation. >Curiously, this mandatory government form carries a copyright notice >on every page, probably to prevent commentators like me from >making copies and alerting the public to this new evidence of the >Clintonites' efforts to collect information that is none of the >government's business. > >The questionnaire isn't just about medical history, treatment and >medications. Questions must be answered on race, ethnicity, family, >whether you own or rent your residence, whom you live with, your >finances, and your psychological attitude and behavior, of course, all >tied into your Social Security number. > >There's much more. The questionnaire demands information on your >mental state, your depression, your tobacco and alcohol use, your >obesity, your bathing and eating practices, and your lack of >motivation, unrealistic expectations, indecisiveness, suicide >attempts, and life expectancy. The form asks if you make grammar >mistakes, or use "excessive profanity" or "sexual references," and it >has 53 boxes to be filled out on toilet and "elimination" performance. > >The home health care interrogator is instructed how to win the >patient's trust before asking these nosy questions. If the patient >refuses to answer any questions, the home health care employee is >told to insert his own "observations." > >There is no provision for voluntary informed consent on the part of the >patient, or that he be told that his responses will be logged onto >government databases. Home health providers must obey HCFA >directives under penalty of not getting paid for their Medicare >patients. > >These forms must be filled out every time a home health care provider >enrolls a new patient, and then revised every 60 days. Data are sent >electronically to computers at state agencies and then to HCFA's >database. > >It was the 1996 Kennedy- Kassebaum Act (which Bob Dole bragged >about passing) that legislated the framework for a federal system of >collecting and sharing medical records identified by a unique number >for each patient. The OASIS regulation is another step to implement >one of the original goals of Clinton's 1994 nationalized health plan: >global budgeting, i.e. government management of all private, as well >as public, health-care spending. > >When grassroots Americans found out about the Know Your >Customer Regulation, they flooded the FDIC with 300,000 negative >comments over a three-month comment period. But the comment >period for the OASIS regulation expired March 26, and major >newspapers didn't report it until 15 days before the deadline. > >The Clinton Administration's other campaign to gather medical >records is a plan to recruit all senior citizens to spy on their own >physicians with the goal of accusing them of fraud. Attorney General >Janet Reno has made a public-private partnership with AARP to offer >senior citizens the chance to collect a reward of up to $1000 if they >file a report that leads to a monetary "recovery" from their doctor. > >If a senior suspects that his doctor has billed Medicare too much for >a service rendered, the senior is supposed to call the toll-free "Fraud >Hotline'' and report the doctor as a possible thief and crook. > >The harassment potential is enormous when 39 million seniors start >trying to collect a bonus if the doctor's office enters the wrong >payment code number on a Medicare form. It is probable that most >seniors believe that everything they buy is overpriced because they >grew up at a time when prices were so much lower. > >What a malicious scheme to harass doctors and destroy any >confidential relationship between doctors and patients! > > > Phyllis Schlafly column 4-07-99 > >*************************************************************** >Purchase Eagle Forum materials at our new on-line store! >http://www.eagleforum.org/order/ >*************************************************************** > >Eagle Forum http://www.eagleforum.org >PO Box 618 eagle@eagleforum.org >Alton, IL 62002 Phone: 618-462-5415 > Fax: 618-462-8909 >--------------------------------------------------------------- >To subscribe to Eagle E-mail >please e-mail eagle@eagleforum.org >with SUBSCRIBE in the subject line. >To unsubscribe, please send a message with >UNSUBSCRIBE in the subject line. >----------------------------------------------------- > > Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 >_________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ >Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CCCS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU Subject: Re: Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records Date: 09 Apr 1999 15:26:33 EDT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chuck S" Subject: WT Editorial - That every man be armed Date: 09 Apr 1999 14:22:33 +500 A followup to this week's story about the federal judge who ruled that the Second Amendment supports the individual. From today's (4/9/99) Washington Times web site: http://www.washtimes.com/opinion/op1.html That every man be armed By Kenneth Smith It wasn't long after the Boston Tea Party that the British decided they better disarm those uppity American colonists to keep them from spilling blood rather than tea leaves. Parliament banned exports of muskets and ammunition to the colonies and sent British soldiers, led by General Gage, to seize their weapons and ammunition. The colonists rudely resisted this early brand of gun control and, at Lexington and Concord, used those weapons to express their displeasure. This history lesson comes courtesy of a federal district judge in Lubbock, Texas, who this month cited these and other events in this country's past to arrive at the remarkable conclusion that the Second Amendment appears to mean what it says: that the Constitution gives individual Americans the right to keep and bear arms. Sorting through American jurisprudence and burgeoning Second Amendment literature in law journals, Judge Sam Cummings held that while the right is not absolute, it nonetheless exists and cannot be wished away, no matter how embarrassing it is to modern sensibilities. Historical examination of the amendment, supported by analysis of its text, Mr. Cummings wrote, ''bears proof that that right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right.'' Mr. Cummings came to his conclusion after hearing the case of a Texas man named Timothy Joe Emerson involved in a divorce with his wife Sacha. She had obtained a temporary restraining order --which Mr. Cummings describes as essentially a form order frequently used in Texas divorce proceedings -- enjoining him from conducting certain kinds of financial transactions or from threatening or actually attacking her during the proceedings. In what President Clinton and his supporters have forever dismissed as a he-said, she-said standoff, Mrs. Emerson claimed that during a phone conversation her husband threatened to kill a man with whom she was alleged to be having an affair. There was no evidence presented to support the claim, and the court made no findings. But the court issued the restraining order, and Mr. Emerson was later indicted for possession of a firearm while under a restraining order, a federal offense. Mr. Emerson filed suit charging that the law violated, among other things, his Second Amendment rights. Government lawyers sought to dismiss the case on grounds that it is "well settled," that the amendment protects a state's rights to bear arms in, for example, National Guard units and not the rights of individual citizens to bear arms. Almost from the beginning of his more than 30-page opinion, Mr. Cummings was skeptical of the government's case. If the Founding Fathers had meant to protect a state's rights, he said, the amendment should have read not: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"; but instead: "the right of the States shall not be infringed." The plain language of the amendment, he wrote, shows the subordinate clause was meant not to qualify the right, but to show why the right must be protected. Besides the Supreme Court ruled a few years ago that the people cited in the Second Amendment are the same people --not states -- cited in the other amendment that make up the Bill of Rights. This reading of the amendment is consistent with the historical record, Mr. Cummings said. As early as 690 A.D. Englishmen were required to possess arms and to serve in the military, and the English Bill of Rights codified the individual right to bear arms in 1689. This tradition informed the colonists own views. Mr. Cummings took note of a 1640 Virginia statute that required all "masters of families to furnish themselves and all those of their families which shall be capable of arms . . . with arms both offensive and defensive." Without that right, wrote Mr. Cummings, the colonists never could have won the Revolutionary War. When they drew up the U.S. Constitution, they wanted that right in there to protect them from political corruption and governmental tyranny. James Monroe proposed the right to keep and bear arms be treated as a basic human right and included in the Constitution. Writing in Federalist No. 46, James Madison mocked European despotisms he described as "afraid to trust the people with arms." Said Patrick Henry, "The great object is that every man be armed . . . [e]veryone who is able may have a gun." Samuel Adams argued that the Constitution "be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." When it came time to take up the Bill of Rights, the Senate turned down a motion to add the phrase "for the common defense" after the words "to keep and bear arms." In his Commentaries on the Constitution, Joseph Story wrote, "The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them." Is it possible that, whatever the views of the Framers, enforcement of the Second Amendment would be imprudent because the social costs of doing so would be too high? There is, after all, plenty of murder and mayhem in this society without allowing everyone to arm himself. But there are social costs to other amendments protecting the likes of free speech (racial vitriol) and the rights of criminal defendants (allowing criminals to go free). The same people now posing a cost-benefit of analysis of the Second Amendment, said Mr. Cummings, wouldn't dream of applying it to the rest of the Bill of Rights. He quotes approvingly the remarks of Justice Antonin Scalia that while Americans may now tolerate the elimination of the right to bear arms, no one should pretend that it is not a reduction of rights. The right to bear arms is not unequivocal. Felons don't enjoy it because criminal conduct has put them outside the class of law-abiding citizens who enjoy full civil rights. But the statute under which Mr. Emerson was indicted means that someone can lose his Second Amendment rights not because he has committed some wrong in the past, said Mr. Cummings, but merely because he is involved in a divorce proceeding. "It is absurd," he said, "that a boilerplate state court divorce can collaterally and automatically extinguish a law-abiding citizen's Second Amendment rights." The Supreme Court has not had much to say about Second Amendment rights in recent years. So this case may be the test for which advocates on both sides of the issue have been looking. Gun-control supporters are confident higher courts will side with them. If they do, according to Mr. Cummings, they will have to overturn centuries of English and American jurisprudence, to say nothing of Monroe, Henry and Madison. Kenneth Smith is deputy editor for The Washington Times editorial page. ================================================== We were promised "the most ethical administration in history." What we got instead was the most obscene, the most corrupt, and, most likely, the least competent. A group of charlatans, felons, traitors, and whores to be sure. But that's ok, they all polled well - Treb U. Shay ================================================== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-to-Die Rag (fwd) Date: 09 Apr 1999 17:03:00 PST On Apr 9, Mike Riddle wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] BALKANS RAG FLOODLIGHT FINDINGS FROM FEENEY by Bill Feeney (bfeeney@NOTfloodlight-findings.com - delete the NOT to send email) April 9, 1999 I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-to-Die Rag (Balkans Rag) (Modified from original Vietnam Rag with apologies and under parody fair use from original version that had words and music by Joe McDonald) Come on all of you big strong men, Bill Clinton needs your help again. He's got himself in a terrible fix Over in the Balkan conflicts So put down your books and pick up a gun, We're gonna have a whole lotta fun. Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come on liberals, send 'em fast; Your big chance has come at last. Gotta send our military to be bled The good war has a draft dodger at its head You know that peace can only be won When U.S. is under UN thumb Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come journalists, don't move slow, Why man, this is war au-go-go. There's plenty good ratings to be made Showing our military in Balkans' war betrayed Clinton sends our troops after meat axe cuts As he's on the greens hitting putts. Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come on liberals from the land, Send troops to Balkans jam Come on media, don't you wait Help send ground troops before it's too late. Just televise all bloody Serb acts Don't show the KLA bloody hacks Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] Come on Clinton cut troop strength more Then send 'em to another war Keep your Chinese bucks out of the news Stolen nuke and missile secrets can't give Bill the blues Not when his press friends for him play whore Can't let voters get mad at Gore Chorus: And it's one, two, three, What are we fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop - Balkans jam; And it's five, six, seven, Open up the pearly gates, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! we're all gonna die. [End Chorus] ------------------- Author has no objection to non-profit distribution and use of the above with this notice included. Above article copyright (c) 1999 Bill Feeney (bfeeney@NOTfloodlight-findings.com - delete the NOT to send email) http://www.floodlight-findings.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: Invasive Patient Database Pushed by HCFA (fwd) Date: 12 Apr 1999 01:27:27 PST On Apr 12, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Dallas wrote: > This From: Eagle Forum, April 7, 1999 > http://www.eagleforum.org > > Clintonites Close In On Our Medical Records > http://www.eagleforum.org/column/1999/apr99/99-04-07.html > > By > Phyllis Schlafly > > While the American people were trying to kill the FDIC Know Your Customer > plan to monitor our financial records, the Clintonites have been moving > steadily and craftily to grab access to our health records. Just as local > bankers were to have been coopted to spy on our bank accounts, the > Administration is using two groups, home health providers and senior > citizens, to spy on our medical records and forward all sorts of personal > data to government databases. > > The pretext for these overreaching regulations is to uncover "fraud and > abuse." But the methodology is to monitor all law-abiding citizens under > the > supposition that any of us might be doing something criminal. > > The new regulation to force 9,000 home health care agencies to collect > and > report sensitive information about all their patients was issued by the > powerful federal agency called HCFA (Health Care Financing > Administration). > OASIS (Outcome and Assessment Information Set) is the cutesy name for > this > latest venture into Big Brotherism. > > Under OASIS, home health providers must interrogate ALL their patients, > not > merely those whose bills are being paid by the government through > Medicare > or Medicaid, exempting only children under age 18 and pre- and post-natal > mothers. The government is thus reaching out to grab the medical records > of > patients whose medical bills are paid by private sources, i.e., not paid > by > the government. > > The 12-page fine-print form that home health care providers must fill out > on > each patient is extraordinarily detailed, offensively privacy-invading to > the patient, and obviously exhausting and time-consuming for the employee > conducting the interrogation. Curiously, this mandatory government form > carries a copyright notice on every page, probably to prevent > commentators > like me from making copies and alerting the public to this new evidence > of > the Clintonites' efforts to collect information that is none of the > government's business. > > The questionnaire isn't just about medical history, treatment and > medications. Questions must be answered on race, ethnicity, family, > whether > you own or rent your residence, whom you live with, your finances, and > your > psychological attitude and behavior, of course, all tied into your Social > Security number. > > There's much more. The questionnaire demands information on your mental > state, your depression, your tobacco and alcohol use, your obesity, your > bathing and eating practices, and your lack of motivation, unrealistic > expectations, indecisiveness, suicide attempts, and life expectancy. The > form asks if you make grammar mistakes, or use "excessive profanity" or > "sexual references," and it has 53 boxes to be filled out on toilet and > "elimination" performance. > > The home health care interrogator is instructed how to win the patient's > trust before asking these nosy questions. If the patient refuses to > answer > any questions, the home health care employee is told to insert his own > "observations." > > There is no provision for voluntary informed consent on the part of the > patient, or that he be told that his responses will be logged onto > government databases. Home health providers must obey HCFA directives > under > penalty of not getting paid for their Medicare patients. > > These forms must be filled out every time a home health care provider > enrolls a new patient, and then revised every 60 days. Data are sent > electronically to computers at state agencies and then to HCFA's > database. > > It was the 1996 Kennedy- Kassebaum Act (which Bob Dole bragged about > passing) that legislated the framework for a federal system of collecting > and sharing medical records identified by a unique number for each > patient. > The OASIS regulation is another step to implement one of the original > goals > of Clinton's 1994 nationalized health plan: global budgeting, i.e. > government management of all private, as well as public, health-care > spending. > > When grassroots Americans found out about the Know Your Customer > Regulation, > they flooded the FDIC with 300,000 negative comments over a three-month > comment period. But the comment period for the OASIS regulation expired > March 26, and major newspapers didn't report it until 15 days before the > deadline. > > The Clinton Administration's other campaign to gather medical records is > a > plan to recruit all senior citizens to spy on their own physicians with > the > goal of accusing them of fraud. Attorney General Janet Reno has made a > public-private partnership with AARP to offer senior citizens the chance > to > collect a reward of up to $1000 if they file a report that leads to a > monetary "recovery" from their doctor. > > If a senior suspects that his doctor has billed Medicare too much for a > service rendered, the senior is supposed to call the toll-free "Fraud > Hotline'' and report the doctor as a possible thief and crook. > > The harassment potential is enormous when 39 million seniors start trying > to > collect a bonus if the doctor's office enters the wrong payment code > number > on a Medicare form. It is probable that most seniors believe that > everything > they buy is overpriced because they grew up at a time when prices were so > much lower. > > What a malicious scheme to harass doctors and destroy any confidential > relationship between doctors and patients! > > Copyright 1999 Eagle Forum. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 12 Apr 1999 13:33:02 PST On Apr 12, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] EAGLE FORUM NEWS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 11, 1999 Phyllis Schlafly has just posted a Petition about Kosovo on Eagle Forum's website (http://www.eagleforum.org), and we invite you to click in and sign immediately. This Petition supports the 41 Senators and 191 Representatives who last month voted AGAINST Clinton taking us into a war in Kosovo. Congress has been on vacation and returns to Washington on Tuesday, April 13. What will these Congressmen say now? Our Petition demands that Congress act immediately to stop Clinton's unconstitutional attack on a sovereign country that has never threatened us. Clinton's bombing is an aggressive act of war against a country that is no threat to us. His bombing has caused enormous misery, and failed to accomplish any military or humanitarian objectives. It is killing people and destroying property that U.S. taxpayers will soon be called on to rebuild. You are urged to sign Eagle Forum's Petition to show Members of Congress that the polls and the media are wrong, and that we completely oppose getting involved in a war in Yugoslavia. Clinton should what President Reagan did in 1983 when 241 American Marines and sailors were killed in Lebanon: cut our losses and get out because it is the wrong place to fight a war. Eagle Forum's website also makes it easy to send an e-mail directly to your Members of Congress. Further information about Kosovo is available on Eagle Forum's website. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Eagle Forum * P.O. Box 618 * Alton, IL 62002 Office: 618-462-5415 * Fax: 618-462-8909 E-mail: eagle@eagleforum.org Web Site: http://www.eagleforum.org <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 12 Apr 1999 17:42:30 -0400 (EDT) > > Congress has been on vacation and returns to Washington on > Tuesday, April 13. What will these Congressmen say now? Our > Petition demands that Congress act immediately to stop Clinton's > unconstitutional attack on a sovereign country that has never > threatened us. > > Clinton's bombing is an aggressive act of war against a country that > is no threat to us. His bombing has caused enormous misery, and > failed to accomplish any military or humanitarian objectives. It is > killing people and destroying property that U.S. taxpayers will soon > be called on to rebuild. > I'd urge anyone to think twice before signing this petition. We're looking at a nasty little war against a totalitarian regieme that is intent upon displacing 100's of thousands of people based upon their race. That government is the remnant of a Communist police state. You just have to look at their friends to know that we are on the right side on this - Red China, Russia. Their means are horrific: taking familys out of their homes, shooting those who don't cooperate, shooting any male over the age of 12 who might be an oponent. All because the Albanian Kosovars want to form a limited-autonomy republic. You can make an argument that this whole situtation was way too messy to *start* intervening. Stopping intervening now is just plain morally wrong. We could be on the verge of a capitulation, or we could be in for months of this, if we stop now NATO is sunk, the Albanian Kosovars are screwed, U.S. credibility is down the toilet, and a totalitarian thug wins using despicable methods. Don't do it. jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 12 Apr 1999 16:32:58 -0700 At 01:33 PM 4/12/1999 PST, you wrote: >On Apr 12, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > EAGLE FORUM NEWS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > April 11, 1999 > > Phyllis Schlafly has just posted a Petition about Kosovo on Eagle > Forum's website (http://www.eagleforum.org), and we invite you to click in > and sign immediately. This Petition supports the 41 Senators and > 191 Representatives who last month voted AGAINST Clinton taking > us into a war in Kosovo. Let's be really careful here; while we may not like going into Kosovo now, it's going to have to be done sometime. Milosevic is a tiny Hitler-wannabe, and he'll continue to make trouble until he dies. (I've been saying this since Serbia attacked Slovenia in 1991; I now know how Cassandra felt!) Now we can see the end result; genocide. Oh, to be sure, it's on a minor scale - he doesn't have the resources to approach Hitler in scale - but it is genocide nevertheless. Of course, the mere fact that Bill Clinton is in favor of this war makes me suspicious of my OWN motives for supporting it, but I continue to believe that military action IS warranted in stopping the Serbs from performing "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo. How, you ask, is this different from Rwanda or Tiananmen Square, or Myanmar, or Chile or Iraq or Iran or Turkey? It isn't. But we didn't do anything about those, and now the next tyrant feels emboldened. Stomp Milosevic, and perhaps the next one will be a bit intimidated. And if future tyrants have to figure the odds that America will crush them, perhaps they'll be deterred. And like the story about the starfish on the beach, we may not be able to save very many - but we can do THIS. I won't be signing Phyllis' petition. Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "Self-government won't work without self-discipline... The abandon- ment of self-discipline has ignited a regulatory explosion. The number of government agencies has doubled in ten years. On average, for every new law passed by Congress, unelected bureaucrats turn out 18 new regulations with the force of law. ...Because some loony birds with unbuttoned brains abuse theirs, the federal government is now threatening to take away our fireworks and our firearms. It is down this road that whole nations go from regulation to regimentation to tyranny." Paul Harvey, IMPRIMIS, October 1998. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 12 Apr 1999 21:39:01 -0700 I think we should be a lot more humble in our abilities to predict. Nothing I have seen from our best foreign policy analysts convices me they know much about the future in detail. Foreign policies of other countries are the big unknown -- how will they react to our actions? Nobody predicts our domestic policies very well, and so I don't think anyone can predict the outcome of any action we take. If you can't predict, you should not prescribe. This is part of the benefits of limited government. It prevents us from doing the same damn stupid things that govs have been doing for hundres of years, for all of the same flawed reasons. We make enemies whenever we do anything in foreign affairs, and our internal security gets more power and $ every time we have another terrorist incident. Ultimately, all of our do-goodism in foreign affairs (as well as domestic) will cost us our freedom. So, I conclude, governments should not have foreign policies. Individuals, I believe, can have foreign policies if they want them. Go fix Koxovo yourself -- Lincoln Brigades are a great idea, for individuals. What kind of freedom do you support that you propose to send my son off to support your ideals? Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kenneth Mitchell > Sent: Monday, April 12, 1999 4:33 PM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > > At 01:33 PM 4/12/1999 PST, you wrote: > >On Apr 12, Omegamarc@aol.com wrote: > > > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > > > EAGLE FORUM NEWS FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > April 11, 1999 > > > > Phyllis Schlafly has just posted a Petition about Kosovo on Eagle > > Forum's website (http://www.eagleforum.org), and we invite you > to click in > > and sign immediately. This Petition supports the 41 Senators and > > 191 Representatives who last month voted AGAINST Clinton taking > > us into a war in Kosovo. > > Let's be really careful here; while we may not like going into Kosovo now, > it's going to have to be done sometime. Milosevic is a tiny > Hitler-wannabe, > and he'll continue to make trouble until he dies. (I've been saying this > since Serbia attacked Slovenia in 1991; I now know how Cassandra felt!) > > Now we can see the end result; genocide. Oh, to be sure, it's on a minor > scale - he doesn't have the resources to approach Hitler in scale - but it > is genocide nevertheless. > > Of course, the mere fact that Bill Clinton is in favor of this > war makes me > suspicious of my OWN motives for supporting it, but I continue to believe > that military action IS warranted in stopping the Serbs from performing > "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo. > > How, you ask, is this different from Rwanda or Tiananmen Square, or > Myanmar, or Chile or Iraq or Iran or Turkey? It isn't. But we didn't do > anything about those, and now the next tyrant feels emboldened. Stomp > Milosevic, and perhaps the next one will be a bit intimidated. And if > future tyrants have to figure the odds that America will crush them, > perhaps they'll be deterred. > > And like the story about the starfish on the beach, we may not be able to > save very many - but we can do THIS. > > I won't be signing Phyllis' petition. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) > --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ > "Self-government won't work without self-discipline... The abandon- > ment of self-discipline has ignited a regulatory explosion. The > number of government agencies has doubled in ten years. On average, > for every new law passed by Congress, unelected bureaucrats turn out > 18 new regulations with the force of law. ...Because some loony birds > with unbuttoned brains abuse theirs, the federal government is now > threatening to take away our fireworks and our firearms. It is down > this road that whole nations go from regulation to regimentation to > tyranny." Paul Harvey, IMPRIMIS, October 1998. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harry Barnett" Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 13 Apr 1999 04:59:59 -0700 -----Original Message----- > >I think we should be a lot more humble in our abilities to predict. > >Nothing I have seen from our best foreign policy analysts convices me they >know much about the future in detail. Concur. Nothing I have seen convinces me they know much about the present or the past, either, whether you limit it to "in detail" or in "in general". To predict the future with any likelihood of success, you need to know where you are. It also helps a great deal to know where you have been already. Unless John and Ken have access to information sources that I do not, I have heard and read the same stuff they have. Nothing I have heard them say, or that the ordinary Media that the ordinary public has access to have said, achieves the status of "fact". "Propaganda", yes. "Fact", no. Just because it is heartfelt does not take it out of the category of propaganda. Just because the Media says that babies are being taken out of incubators so the incubators can be sent to Baghdad makes doesn't make it so. Just because the Media says that the Patriot is achieving an 80% kill ratio doesn't make it so. Just because the Media says racial genocide is occurring doesn't make it so. Just because "It's for the Children" doesn't make it so. We are all bombarded with propaganda from various flavors of the Media every day, day-in and day-out, much of it contradictory, some even self-contradictory. This stuff is no different. In fact, a lot of it is so transparently propaganda that even Junior High School kids are raising an eyebrow of disbelief when they see the stuff. Nothing the Media says can be considered fact. And America's right to take the moral high ground in anything is a ludicrous joke as long as Americans suffer BJ and his host of pimps, panderers, prostitutes, and procurers to remain in power. All we can do is say "our dirty little thug can beat up your dirty little thug". Maybe this adventure will take us somewhere a third of the American population doesn't deserve to go. But then maybe it will take us somewhere two-thirds of the population DO deserve to go. On the bright side, it is good practice for the troops. And because of the practice, they are probably going to need it. But it is merely a "falling out among thieves" at the political level, not a Grand and Glorious cause. But on the not so bright side, some of the skills troops learn may be brought home, and become up close and personal when the Bomb 'em Billie crowd repeals the Posse Comitatus Act and decides to "stop terrorism at home". Can't happen here? Heh. There is Federal legislation proposed to do just that. For that matter, what difference does it make if a few people sign a petition? It will be blithely ignored by BJ and his Host of Whores anyway. Harry E. Barnett harryb@hbbse.com http://www.hbbse.com -- It isn't what we don't know that hurts us. It's what we know that isn't o. --Will Rogers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FAXALERT: Environmentalists Try to List Prairie Dog as "Threatened" (fwd) Date: 13 Apr 1999 04:12:05 PST Prairie Dogs, one of the most prolific varmints in the Country, on the endangered list? I'm beginning to think it's time to start putting a out a Bounty on Environmentalists.....:-/ On Apr 12, NRA Alerts wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] NRA-ILA FAX ALERT 11250 Waples Mill Road * Fairfax, VA 22030 Phone: (800) 392-8683 * Fax: (703) 267-3918 * GROOTS@NRA.org Vol. 6, No. 13 4/9/99 ENVIRONMENTALISTS PETITION GOVERNMENT TO LIST PRAIRIE DOG AS "THREATENED" The National Wildlife Federation (NWF) filed a petition with the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USF&WS) to list the black-tailed prairie dog as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. The petition listed unregulated recreational shooting as contributing to the decline of the species, along with poisoning, conversion of grasslands to farmland, urban development, and disease. USF&WS declined the petitioner's request to suspend normal rulemaking procedures and issue emergency regulations. However, the Service found that the petition contained enough information to suggest that listing may be warranted, which means that USF&WS, by notice in the March 25 Federal Register, is taking the next step of conducting a status review to determine if listing the animal is warranted. The public comment period is open until May 24. Data, personal observations, technical critiques, comments, or questions should be sent to the Field Supervisor, Ecological Services, US Fish and Wildlife Service, 420 South Garfield Avenue, Suite 400, Pierre, SD 57501-5408. A LOOK AT THE STATES ARIZONA: HB 2275, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, is scheduled to be considered by the Senate next week. Another reckless lawsuit preemption bill, SB 1150, is currently stalled in the Hse. Approps. Cmte. Contact your lawmakers at (800) 352-8404 in support of these bills. CALIFORNIA: On Tuesday, April 13, the Assy. Public Safety Cmte. will consider AB 1040, which seeks to change the Right To Carry statutes to increase the likelihood that qualified individuals would be issued a permit, and AB 491, which seeks to increase the penalty for the first offense of carrying a concealed firearm from a misdemeanor to a "wobbler" -- allowing for prosecutorial discretion in charging a person with a misdemeanor or a felony. Contact members of these committees in support of AB 1040 and against AB 491. For committee members' names and telephone numbers contact ILA Grassroots. COLORADO: SB 84, the NRA-backed Right To Carry bill sponsored by Sen. Ken Chlouber (R-4), passed the Sen. Approps. Cmte. and awaits consideration by the full Senate. Contact your Sen. at (303) 866-2316 in support of SB 84. Also, SB 205, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, will be voted on by the House next week. Contact your Rep. at (303) 866-2904 in support SB 205. Finally, HB 1305, a bill to establish uniform firearms laws throughout Colo., has been reworked in a conference committee, and awaits final approval by both chambers. Contact your lawmakers at (888) 473-8136 and urge them to give final approval to these bills, and call Gov. Owens (R) at (303) 866-2471 & urge him to sign HB 1305. CONNECTICUT: HB 6718 [the Lawlor (R-99)-Jepson (R-27) anti-gun package], which, among other things, seeks to require training for any store clerk who sells firearms, is currently being considered by a joint legislative committee. Contact your Rep. at (860) 240-0100 and urge him to vote NO on HB 6718. FLORIDA: SB 954, the NRA-backed reciprocity bill, passed the House earlier this week, and HB 67, the NRA-backed range protection bill, was overwhelmingly passed in the Senate. Both bills await Gov. Jeb Bush's (R) expected approval. LOUISIANA: Yesterday, HB 1639, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed the House. It now heads to the Senate where consideration is expected next week. Contact your Sen. at (504) 342-2040 in support of HB 1639. NEW YORK: On Saturday, April 17, Capital District SCOPE and several other Second Amendment organizations are hosting the Second Amendment Civil Rights Rally in Albany. The rally will run from 11:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., on the Capitol steps. For more information, contact sacres@juno.com., or call Tom Chandler at (518) 861-7058, or Bill Hart at (518) 489-3032. MINNESOTA: HF 619, the NRA-backed range protection bill, passed the House and awaits Senate consideration. Contact your Sen. at (651) 296-0504 in support of HF 619. MISSOURI: On Monday, April 12, an amendment requiring trigger locks on all firearms will be offered to HB 283, an omnibus crime bill. Contact your Rep. at (573) 751-3659 in opposition to this amendment. NEVADA: AB 543, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed the Assy. Jud. Cmte., and awaits the full Assembly's consideration. Also, SB 420, the NRA-backed reciprocity bill, is up for consideration in the Sen. Jud. Cmte. Contact your Assemblyman at (775) 687- 5739 in support of AB 543, and your Sen. at (775) 687-5742 in support of SB 420. OKLAHOMA: SB 562, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed the House, and heads to Gov. Frank Keating (R) for consideration. Contact Gov. Keating at (405) 521-2342 and urge him to sign SB 562. TEXAS: SB 717, which seeks to prevent municipalities from filing reckless lawsuits against gun manufacturers, passed in the Senate and is awaiting consideration in the Hse. Civil Practices Cmte. Also, HB 2399, the NRA-backed shooting range protection bill, is pending in the same committee. Contact committee members in support of these bills. Visit www.nraila.org or call ILA Grassroots for a list of committee members. Additionally, on Tuesday, April 13, the Hse. Public Safety Cmte. will hold hearings on HB 1199, which bans firearms sales between private, non-licensed individuals at gun shows, and HB 2169, which imposes irrational construction and operation standards on shooting ranges. The hearings will be held at 8 a.m. in Room E1.026 of the Capitol Extension in Austin. =+=+=+=+ This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action -- www.NRAILA.org [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: EIA Communique - 4/12 (fwd) Date: 13 Apr 1999 04:14:06 PST On Apr 12, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -----Original Message----- The Education Intelligence Agency COMMUNIQU=C9 =97 April 12, 1999 Now on the Web at http://members.aol.com/educintel/eia + The first huge batch of copies of EIA's latest report, Measure for Meas= ure: A Magnified Look at Standardized Test Scores, has been put in the mail. T= he report ranks 34 states by the test scores of their black students, Hispan= ic students, American Indian students, urban students, low-income students, students of parents without a high school diploma, students of inexperien= ced teachers, and students of less-educated teachers, as well as addressing t= he questions of standardized test exclusion rates and per-pupil spending. As always, single copies are free. Please call about large orders. + In January, basketball legend Michael Jordan announced the launching o= f the Jordan Fundamentals education grants program. In a joint venture with= the National Foundation for the Improvement of Education (NFIE), The Jordan B= rand would make grants of up $2,500 to teachers to support their work with disadvantaged students. NFIE is a nonprofit, wholly-owned subsidiary of t= he National Education Association. The Jordan Brand is a wholly-owned divisi= on of Nike, Inc. Now certainly there is nothing wrong with Nike deciding to donate money to teachers. But under current circumstances, there was certainly something unusual about NEA, one of the nation's largest labor unions, agreeing to a joint venture with Nike, the leading target of union activi= sts across the U.S. and Southeast Asia. On February 1 EIA reported on this curiosity, and the time is ripe for an update. Nike is only now recovering from declining sales brought on by the Asian recession and criticism from labor groups. The Asian recession has abated somewhat but the pressure from labor groups seems to have intensif= ied. Protests against licensing agreements with Nike have erupted on American college campuses, prompting Nike to allow an independent monitor to inspe= ct a factory in Vietnam. "They're making a public relations move out of someth= ing they'd have to do anyway," Eric Brakken, a members of United Students Aga= inst Sweatshops told U.S. News & World Report. The left-wing magazine The Nati= on criticized the independent monitoring process, arguing that it allowed Ni= ke "far too much control." In such a climate, why would NEA sign on to a joi= nt venture with Nike? "We considered the issue very carefully before agreeing to do this program," NFIE Executive Director Judith Renyi told EIA. "We were convinc= ed of several things: that Michael Jordan himself wanted to do something to = help the neediest kids in America; that the new NFIE relationship with The Jor= dan Brand would open a new channel for dialogue between labor rights advocate= s and corporate America; and that this opportunity could be leveraged into meaningful action that supports this country's neediest children." EIA wi= ll continue to monitor the NEA-Nike relationship and its effect on NEA's standing in the American labor movement. + At its annual meeting in February, the California Staff Organization, = the staff union for professional employees of the California Teachers Association, considered an unusual resolution: "Be it resolved that: CSO urge CTA to lobby for additional state funding which would allow districts to pay beginning teachers a minimum o= f $40,000 per year, increasing to $80,000 per year within five (5) years an= d include a cost-of-living variable based on geography." After defeating a substitute motion which would have upped the $40,000 to $50,000 and the $80,000 to $100,000, the assembled union staff= ers defeated the motion in its entirety. But since CSO considered this to be = a serious proposal, let's treat it like one. Suppose California instituted the CSO plan. Currently, salaries and benefits of public school classroom teachers make up approximately 16.75%= of the state's total 1999-2000 budget. The boost to $80,000, along with a corresponding increase in benefits (otherwise no one would ever retire) w= ould increase the teachers share to 29% of the state budget. An increase to $100,000 would be a 36.3% share. Where would Gov. Davis cut 12.25% (or 19.55%) of the entire budget? Suggestions, CSO? OK, such deep budget cuts are likely to engender significant political opposition. So how about a tax increase to pay for it? CSO's "moderate" plan would require about a $276 per capita state tax increase. That's an additional $1,104 per year for a family of four. The more grand= iose plan would cost that family another $654 on top of that. And then there a= re the cost-of-living hikes. All of this also assumes that in the New World Order, principals are willing to work for less than teachers, many district superintendents are willing to work for less than teachers, and Gov. Davis is happy to scrape= by on his pay. Substitute pay becomes a big issue (can you pay a sub $75 a d= ay for replacing someone who makes $555 a day?). And there are the librarian= s, counselors and teachers' aides to think of -- never mind the college professors. Alternate suggestion: raise the pay of every California public school teacher to $215,500 per year. That, plus the benefits, would use up the state's entire $78.2 billion budget. But who will be around to sign the checks? + If you visited the EIA web-site on Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning, you already know that the Milwaukee Teachers Education Associati= on suffered a crushing defeat in the city's school board races. Five union-backed candidates, including three incumbents, were defeated handil= y, despite a heavy financial and manpower contribution from both MTEA and Pe= ople for the American Way. Union critic John Gardner took nearly 61% of the vo= te in the race for the only citywide board seat. "This is not a defeat for t= he MTEA," said Gardner. "It is a defeat for the six arrogant white men from = the suburbs who think they run the union. They are going to have to start listening to their members or look for new jobs." + Classified school employees in Harlan County, Kentucky, voted for unio= n representation last week. But they didn't choose an education union to bargain for them, they chose the United Mine Workers. I'll spare you any = of the two dozen or so wisecracks I could have put in here. + Quote of the Week #1: "Under this bill, any wacko, quasi-religious sec= t could open a school that taught English during first period and taught ho= w to bite the heads off chickens during second period." -- Steven Williams of = the Washoe County School District, testifying against a voucher plan for low-income students before the Nevada Senate's Human Resources and Facili= ties Committee. + Quote of the Week #2: "The moment you question the actions or contract= s of a public employees' union, you are a basher. You are a teacher-basher, a nurse-basher, a heartless basher of hard-working members of helping professions. You cannot ask whether the job is getting done without becom= ing a basher. This is not healthy for the state." -- Providence Journal-Bulle= tin columnist Julia Steiny. Do what I try to do, Julia. Embrace the basher wi= thin and continue to write the truth. # # # The Education Intelligence Agency conducts public education research, analysis and investigations. Director: Mike Antonucci. Ph: 916-422-4373. = Fax: 916-392-1482. E-Mail: EducIntel@aol.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Off Topic-Clinton found in Contempt of Court. (fwd) Date: 13 Apr 1999 04:16:13 PST On Apr 12, RHill@MICKEY.GC.WHECN.EDU wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ap/washington/story.html?s=v/ap/1999041 2/pl/clinton_contempt.html Judge Finds Clinton in Contempt By PEGGY HARRIS Associated Press Writer LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (AP) - A federal judge found President Clinton in contempt of court Monday for giving ``intentionally false'' testimony about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky, imposing a historic judicial rebuke on a chief executive who survived congressional impeachment just two months ago. Historians said they believed Clinton was the first president to face such a penalty, a lasting stigma that could also force him to pay tens of thousands of dollars more to Paula Jones beyond the $850,000 he paid to settle her sexual harassment claims. U.S. District Judge Susan Webber Wright imposed a civil rather than a criminal penalty for Clinton's testimony in the Jones case, ordering him to pay Mrs. Jones ``any reasonable expenses including attorneys' fees caused by his willful failure to obey this court's discovery orders.'' The judge also ordered the president to pay $1,202 as reimbursement for the judge's travel in the case, and set in motion a legal process that could strip Clinton of his Arkansas law license. ``The record demonstrates by clear and convincing evidence that the president responded to plaintiff's questions by giving false, misleading and evasive answers that were designed to obstruct the judicial process,'' Wright wrote. Wright said she would delay enforcement for 30 days to give Clinton an opportunity to ask for a hearing or to appeal. One option is for him to use his legal defense fund, which has raised $4.5 million, to pay the sanction. John Whitehead, one of Mrs. Jones' lawyers, said the legal expenses could be ``tens of thousands of dollars.'' ``You have all the expenses related to seven lawyers who attended the deposition - air fares, the time spent there, the time preparing, meals, and what we believe was the cause and effect of the whole thing,'' said Whitehead, who runs a conservative legal group that paid some of Mrs. Jones' bills. Senior presidential aides, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Clinton lawyers regarded the penalty as relatively light because the judge had the option of imposing an immediate criminal contempt penalty of up to six months in prison or referring the president for possible prosecution. But the lawyers were keeping options open until they learned how large a monetary penalty Mrs. Jones might seek. ``I will have no comment until I have had the opportunity of reviewing this matter fully,'' said Robert Bennett, the private lawyer who represented Clinton in the Jones case. The ruling, a public reminder of the Lewinsky controversy at a time when national interest has turned to Kosovo and other matters, came just two months after the Senate voted to acquit Clinton of impeachment charges that grew out of the relationship and his denials of it. Rep. Asa Hutchinson, the Arkansas Republican who was one of the House prosecutors in the impeachment trial, said a ``nonpartisan and nonpolitical judge'' had found the president had willfully disobeyed court orders to be truthful and ``I have to underline the 'willful' part of her ruling.'' The office of Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, whose investigation prompted the impeachment effort, declined comment Monday night. Whitehead said the ruling was ``a vindication'' for his client and the first time ``where the president was actually held accountable in the end.'' Clinton is believed to be the first chief executive to be found in civil contempt while in office, according to Robert Dallek, a historian at Boston University. ``It's not going to help Bill Clinton's historical reputation,'' Dallek said. Wright, a Bush-appointed Republican and a former law student of Clinton's, said in her ruling, ``The court takes no pleasure whatsoever in holding this nation's president in contempt of court.'' She also said her decision to dismiss the Jones case a year ago would not have changed, even if the president had been ``truthful with respect to his relationship with Ms. Lewinsky.'' Mrs. Jones appealed the dismissal, but then she settled the case by accepting an $850,000 payment from Clinton. She alleged that Clinton, as Arkansas governor, made an unwanted sexual advance in a Little Rock hotel room in 1991. Wright said Mrs. Jones was entitled to information regarding any state or federal employee with whom the president had or proposed to have sexual relations. In his deposition in the Jones case, Clinton said: ``I have never had sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky.'' After the president's DNA was found on a dress belonging to Ms. Lewinsky, he acknowledged an ``inappropriate intimate relationship'' with her before a federal grand jury last Aug. 17 - and again in a nationally televised address. Clinton said the relationship did not fall under the definition of ``sexual relations'' provided by Mrs. Jones' lawyers during his deposition, and that his testimony was legally accurate. Wright also is the judge who sent Susan McDougal, one of Clinton's Whitewater partners, to jail for 18 months for refusing to answer grand jury questions in Kenneth Starr's inquiry. The contempt ruling came the same day that a jury acquitted Mrs. McDougal of obstruction of justice and deadlocked on two contempt of court charges in a separate trial. In her decision Monday, the judge wrote, ``It is difficult to construe the president's sworn statements ... as anything other than a willful refusal to obey this court's discovery orders.'' ``Simply put, the president's deposition testimony regarding whether he had ever been alone with Ms. Lewinsky was intentionally false and his statements regarding whether he had ever engaged in sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky likewise were intentionally false,'' said the judge. She directed Mrs. Jones' lawyers to submit a statement of their expenses and fees within 20 days. If Clinton decides not respond, the court will enter an order setting out the time and manner by which Clinton has to comply. In addition to the payment to Mrs. Jones, Clinton must reimburse the court for the judge's travel expenses in going to Washington at Clinton's request to preside over ``his tainted deposition'' on Jan. 17, 1998, she said. Wright also said she will refer the matter to the Arkansas Supreme Court's Committee on Professional Conduct to review any disciplinary action it thinks is appropriate, including action against Clinton's law license. She noted the Model Rules of Professional Conduct deem it misconduct for a lawyer to engage in conduct involving ``dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.'' [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 13 Apr 1999 11:14:39 -0400 (EDT) > >I think we should be a lot more humble in our abilities to predict. > >Nothing I have seen from our best foreign policy analysts convices me they >know much about the future in detail. Foreign policies of other countries >are the big unknown -- how will they react to our actions? > >Nobody predicts our domestic policies very well, and so I don't think anyone >can predict the outcome of any action we take. > I agree that our predictive abilities are small. >If you can't predict, you should not prescribe. > Incorrect. Counter-example: No one could predict the outcome of the Cold War. A lot of evil was done under the auspices of the Cold War, but a greater evil was defeated: the Soviet Union was reduced from a world-model totalitarian state to a crumbling third-world kleptocracy (with nuclear weapons, of course). >This is part of the benefits of limited government. It prevents us from >doing >the same damn stupid things that govs have been doing for hundres of years, >for all of the same flawed reasons. > I believe that America is exceptionalist on four counts: a. willing to fight for an ideal of freedom abroad. b. willing to exemplify that ideal by incorporating various ethnic groups into our society under a common model of citizenship. c. unwilling to live under European model - high taxation, cradle-to-grave socialism. d. explicit rule of law protections for individual rights. I don't see a. and b. as contradicting c. and d. >We make enemies whenever we do anything in foreign affairs, and our internal >security gets more power and $ every time we have another terrorist >incident. > I agree with this last sentiment. We need to fight to preserve civil rights, limited policing, etc. at home. If we retreat into neo-isolationism, what reason do you have to believe that our rights will be eroded any slower? We have to fight internal battles for freedom, as well as external. >Ultimately, all of our do-goodism in foreign affairs (as well as domestic) >will cost us our freedom. > > ciao, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: forward: Beware of feds bearing weapons Date: 13 Apr 1999 13:01:01 -0400 (EDT) THE SACRAMENTO BEE: Beware of feds bearing weapons Copyright =A9 1999 Scripps McClatchy Western Service (April 9, 1999 5:03 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) - Back in 1997, the San Joaquin (Calif.) valley town of Dinuba, population 15,269, eagerly accepted gifts of submachine guns and head-to-toe combat gear - all of it free surplus paramilitary equipment from the U.S. military. Dinuba used the material to set up its version of a SWAT team, called SET - Special Enforcement Team. Half of the city's 12-member police force joined the unit. In a recent report, the Los Angeles Times described how the gifts from the U.S. military, initially seen as a boon to law enforcement, turned out to be a fatal mistake. Responding to reports that a sawed-off shotgun used in an attempted murder was at a house in town, SET members wearing black masks and camouflage burst into a small house and surprised a 64-year-old farm worker and his wife, who were asleep in bed. The man jumped up and grabbed a folding knife. Invading officers, armed with MP-5 submachine guns, a favorite of the Navy Seals, shot him 15 times, killing him. The gun they sought, allegedly belonging to the farm worker's son, was never found. Last month, a federal jury in Fresno awarded the family $12.5 million in damages in a brutality suit filed against the city of Dinuba. The damages are more than twice Dinuba's annual budget; the city's insurance policy covers only $9.5 million. The city is appealing but regardless of the outcome of that appeal, the tragic incident has been a costly yet instructive lesson for Dinuba and police departments across the country. It shines a useful light on the dangers of police departments accepting free military hardware without the need, the training or the sophistication to use it. Peter Kraska, a professor of criminology who's written a study on the subject titled "Militarization of Mayberry and Beyond," told the Los Angeles Times that boredom was part of the problem. "You've got these neat little units with all this equipment and training and nothing is happening. So you start using them in situations where they aren't really needed, like routine search warrants." Bigger communities like Sacramento are not immune to the lure of free military hardware. In recent years, the Sacramento County Sheriff's department has received four helicopters, flight helmets, camouflage pants, gas masks and an armored personnel carrier. The county turned down an offer of 300 M-16 automatic rifles. "We discussed it and said 'no,"' Sacramento Sheriff Lou Blanas said. "We didn't need them and you run a risk when you have that much firepower all over." The county did recently accept six AR-15 semiautomatic rifles from the military for delivery to the new city of Citrus Heights. In Dinuba, meanwhile, the SET team has been disbanded. City fathers now say the town was too small to need a paramilitary unit. In the wake of Dinuba, other police departments around the country need to make their own assessments. What equipment do we really need to maintain law and order and what will get us into trouble? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: skip Subject: Re: forward: Beware of feds bearing weapons Date: 13 Apr 1999 11:49:38 -0700 John Curtis wrote: > > THE SACRAMENTO BEE: Beware of feds bearing weapons > I'm no fed defender, but characterizing this is a federal abuse of power is a larger abuse of the truth. This is Barney Fife, of Mayberry (Andy Griffith show) fame - over armed and suffering from small-town delusions of grandeur and heroism in a mob-psychology setting. These were all talk-no action Harry High School types who felt they had to prove themselves to their peers. No question that those folks were present at Waco and Ruby Ridge too, but not in Dinuba. Power corrupts at all levels of society. It may be more horrendous as the lowest most ignorant levels - as in Waco, Ruby Ridge, dragging a man to death behind a pickup, citizens arming themselves to the teeth for the 2nd American Revolution, etc. Skip - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: forward: Beware of feds bearing weapons Date: 13 Apr 1999 15:17:15 -0400 (EDT) > >No question that those folks were present at Waco and Ruby >Ridge too, but not in Dinuba. > >Power corrupts at all levels of society. It may be more >horrendous as the lowest most ignorant levels - as in Waco, >Ruby Ridge, dragging a man to death behind a pickup, citizens >arming themselves to the teeth for the 2nd American Revolution, >etc. > >Skip > I agree, mostly, with one caveat. I don't think it is a Fed problem, in this instance. I do think that the Fed agencies bear some responsibility for encouraging this SWAT team, black fatique, exotic weapons mentality. A Chief LEO that buys into it, certainly bears a lot of responsibility. I think that if you suit up, practice, and scrimmage you are sooner or later going to want to play in a real game. So the moral is: be careful what games you scrimmage for, 'cause you just might wind up creating them. ciao, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: forward: Beware of feds bearing weapons Date: 13 Apr 1999 12:46:41 -0700 John Curtis wrote: > > I do think that the Fed agencies bear some responsibility for > encouraging this SWAT team, black fatique, exotic weapons > mentality. I think you're exactly right on this point John. If Andy Griffith told Barney Fife to form a local SWAT team, it would come out looking just like the Fed "big boys", but like the Dinuba gang, with no discipline or restraint - a shoot first, think later mentality. Come to think of it, that's a Fed characteristic too. Maybe it's the mob mentality that governs all of these outfits, made worse by the ski mask anonymity. Skip. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Clinton in SF Next Thursday !]] 11:00 A.M IN FRONT OF THE FAIRMONT Date: 14 Apr 1999 01:45:35 PST Don't forget your, "Sexual Predator Alert", signs etc. Hey, hey, William J., how many kids did you kill today? On Apr 13, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Fwd: Clinton in SF Next Thursday !]] 11:00 A.M IN FRONT OF THE FAIRMONT HOTEL, SAN FRANCISCO Reply-to: ccarter@mbay.net (charles carter/char carter) ACCORDING TO KSFO RADIO, CLINTON WILL BE ARRIVING IN FRONT OF THE FAIRMONT HOTEL IN SAN FRANCISCO AT 11:30 A.M. THIS THURS., APRIL 15TH. THERE WILL BE A HUGE PROTEST OF ANTI-CLINTON, ANTI-CLINTON'S WAR, ANTI-CLINTON AS OUR PRESIDENT, ETC. PLEASE BE THERE WITH YOUR SIGNS AT 11:00 A.M. TO ORGANIZE. PLEASE ROUTE THIS TO EVERY COLLEGE STUDENT AND FRIENDS IN CALIF. TO BE THERE, AS THEY ARE GOING TO BE DRAFTED FOR A WAR THAT WE SHOULD STAY OUT OF. PACK YOUR BUSSES, VANS AND TRUCKS AND PROTEST!!! >From: colbert2@earthlink.net >Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:18:35 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: JAS@prado.com >Subject: [Fwd: Clinton in SF Next Thursday !] > > >******** FREE REPUBLIC ALERT !!! CLINTON IN SF NEXT WEEK !!! ******** > >Calling all San Francisco Bay Area FReepers! Yesterday, the following >news article announced that Clinton will be addressing the American >Society of Newspaper Editors' (A.S.N.E.) convention at the Fairmont >Hotel next week on Thursday, April 15 (time of day to be announced): > > >Orginally, the scheduled speaker was to be Gore but this has changed. >More info on A.S.N.E. and their SF convention is at: > 1999 ASNE Convention > >More information is posted in the Free Republic "activism" forum at: > Gentleman, Start Your Engines! Clinton Cu... > >For further updates, listen to KSFO Talk Radio (560 AM) and check back >with the Free Republic "activism" forum. You'll be updated by e-mail as >soon as the time of day is confirmed and also informed of any changes >that may occur. > >Where: > >Fairmont Hotel >950 Mason Street (corner of California Street, on Nob Hill) >San Francisco, California > >(415) 772-5000 > >When: > >Thursday, APRIL 15 > >A very large crowd is expected to be there and will include not only >FReepers, but the Serbian community and various anti-war groups as well >as the "Soccer Moms with a Brain" and others. This is our chance to >hammer away at both Clinton *and* the media! Clinton is trying to blow >the Cox Report and China scandals off the front pages and the evening >news with the war in Kosovo. Let's make some noise about the Missile >technology transfers to China, the illegal Chinese campaign >contributions, the PLA spies that have been allowed to infiltrate our >government and defense industry, and the danger this poses to our >country. The mainstream media has been a willing accomplice in this >cover-up of treason and should be brought to account for it. > >So mark APRIL 15 on your calendars, bring your signs and spread the >word! > >Fred /aka "Bonaparte" / SF Bay Area Free Republic ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: forward: Beware of feds bearing weapons Date: 14 Apr 1999 02:11:10 PST On Apr 13, Skip Leuschner wrote: >John Curtis wrote: > >> >> I do think that the Fed agencies bear some responsibility for >> encouraging this SWAT team, black fatique, exotic weapons >> mentality. > >I think you're exactly right on this point John. If Andy Griffith >told Barney Fife to form a local SWAT team, it would come out looking >just like the Fed "big boys", but like the Dinuba gang, with no >discipline or restraint - a shoot first, think later mentality. >Come to think of it, that's a Fed characteristic too. Maybe it's >the mob mentality that governs all of these outfits, made worse by >the ski mask anonymity. And made worse by the fact that they are allowed, nay encouraged, to rob and kill without having to pay for it. All that's left out is Rape; So far at that is. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: FL800 Journalist Convicted! (fwd) Date: 14 Apr 1999 07:43:05 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- After a jury in Michigan did would it could do to ensure pain and suffering for the terminally ill by convicting Dr. Jack Kevorkian, another jury in New York just did what it could do to send the message to journalists that efforts to break the Flight 800 cover-up and provide America with a second opinion (other than the government's) about evidence in that case will not be tolerated. James Sanders and his wife were just convicted for James having accepted patches of seat cushion taken from the wreckage so that independent tests could be conducted so as to give the world a second opinion. Some argue: "But if someone has evidence proving it was a missile hit, why don't they bring it forward?" Right, I mean who wouldn't want to end up in jail? Info On The Federal War on James and Elizabeth Sanders: http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/CRASH/TWA/sanderscase.html The Residue Sanders Tested Was NOT Glue, As FBI/Media Claims: http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/CRASH/TWA/BASS/bassett.html http://www.multipull.com/twacasefile/residues.html http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2639/no_res.html ====================================================== Associated Press Report ====================================================== 2 Convicted in TWA Evidence Theft By Pat Milton Associated Press Writer Tuesday, April 13, 1999; 6:07 p.m. EDT UNIONDALE, N.Y. (AP) -- A self-styled investigative reporter and his wife were convicted Tuesday of stealing scraps of upholstery from the wreckage of TWA Flight 800 in an effort to prove his theory that the airliner was shot down by a Navy missile. A federal jury took two hours to convict James Sanders, 53, and his wife Elizabeth, 52, a former TWA training supervisor, of conspiracy and aiding and abetting the thefts. The couple from Williamsburg, Va., could get up to 10 years in prison when sentenced July 9. ``I'm shocked,'' Sanders said in a telephone interview after the verdict. ``I'm confident we will prevail. I'm more shocked for my wife, Liz.'' Sanders said he ``wouldn't have started down this road if I wasn't prepared to go to jail. It sends an incredible strong message to journalists.'' All 230 people aboard Flight 800 were killed when the Boeing 747 exploded over the Atlantic on July 17, 1996, just minutes after leaving New York's Kennedy Airport on a flight to Paris. The government has said the plane was destroyed by a fuel tank fire of as-yet unknown origin but has rejected sabotage, terrorism or ``friendly fire'' from the Navy. In newspaper articles and a 1997 book, ``The Downing of TWA Flight 800,'' Sanders claimed stains on seat upholstery taken from the plane were formed by missile fuel, bolstering his theory. The FBI said the stains were glue. The government's case relied heavily on the testimony of Terrell Stacey, a former TWA pilot who admitted helping Sanders by stealing crash-related documents and scraps of the seat covering from the hangar where investigators had reassembled the plane's wreckage. Stacey, who had flown the plane the day before the crash and was assigned by TWA to assist in the investigation, testified against the Sanderses in exchange for being allowed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor theft charge. Sanders' attorney, Bruce Maffeo, said he will appeal. He said Sanders was ``a journalist trying to get the truth out'' and made no attempt to hide the fact that the evidence was passed to him. ================ END OF AP REPORT ==================== ********************************************************** Visit Ian Williams Goddard -----> http://Ian.Goddard.net GODDARD'S JOURNAL -> http://erols.com/igoddard/journal.htm __________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: WACO ON HBO SCHEDULE (fwd) Date: 14 Apr 1999 16:48:56 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- --------------10792B9510D9CAF0DB4A13BB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SomFord Entertainment update.... <...PLEASE PASS IT ON...> April 19, 1999 HBO Presents "One of the top ten films of the year" Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, The Minneapolis Star Tribune Oscar nominated Waco: The Rules of Engagement "An enthusiastic TWO THUMBS UP!!!" Siskel & Ebert "Photographic evidence that the FBI, contrary to its official assertions, fired on, then torched the Branch Davidian compound. A duzy of an investigative expose" The New York Times "The Only Truly Important Film of the Year. See it Now. You Will Never be the Same" San Francisco Bay Guardian In 1993, the Branch Davidian compound outside Waco, Texas burned down, killing 76 men, women and children. A congressional investigation ruled that the fire was an act of mass suicide-but others vehemently disagree. Nominated for a 1998 Oscar (R) for Best Documentary Feature, this film reveals the untold tragic story through archival footage and never-before-seen video and audio tapes-and casts doubts on the methods and motives of the federal agents who staged a 51-day war in Waco. Date Time Channel Mon, Apr 19 6:30 pm HBOHD East Mon, Apr 19 6:30 pm HBO East Mon, Apr 19 8:30 pm HBO Mtn Mon, Apr 19 9:30 pm HBOHD West Mon, Apr 19 9:30 pm HBO West Fri, Apr 30 8:00 am HBO West Fri, Apr 30 11:00 am HBOS East Want to know more? Reviews, FAQs, Discussion waco93.com/ somford@worldnet.att.net Press Kits and Interviews: Katie Lanegran Dish Communications, Inc. (818) 508-1000 FAX (818) 508-1193 dishpr@aol.com --------------10792B9510D9CAF0DB4A13BB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

SomFord Entertainment update....

<...PLEASE PASS IT ON...>

April 19, 1999

HBO

Presents


"One of the top ten films of the year"
                                                         Los Angeles Times, San Francisco Chronicle, The Minneapolis Star Tribune

Oscar nominated

Waco: The Rules of Engagement
"An enthusiastic TWO THUMBS UP!!!"
                                                          Siskel & Ebert

"Photographic evidence that the FBI, contrary to its official assertions, fired on, then torched the Branch Davidian compound. A duzy of an investigative expose"
                      The New York Times

"The Only Truly Important Film of the Year. See it Now. You Will Never be the Same"
                                                                                        San Francisco Bay Guardian
 

In 1993, the Branch Davidian compound outside Waco, Texas burned down, killing 76 men, women and children. A congressional investigation ruled that the fire was an act of mass suicide-but others vehemently disagree. Nominated for a 1998 Oscar (R) for Best Documentary Feature, this film reveals the untold tragic story through archival footage and never-before-seen video and audio tapes-and casts doubts on the methods and motives of the federal agents who staged a 51-day war in Waco.
 

                                    Date                       Time             Channel

                                    Mon, Apr 19            6:30 pm        HBOHD East
                                    Mon, Apr 19            6:30 pm        HBO East
                                    Mon, Apr 19            8:30 pm        HBO Mtn
                                    Mon, Apr 19            9:30 pm        HBOHD West
                                    Mon, Apr 19            9:30 pm        HBO West
                                    Fri, Apr 30               8:00 am        HBO West
                                    Fri, Apr 30              11:00 am       HBOS East
 


Want to know more?
Reviews, FAQs, Discussion
waco93.com/
somford@worldnet.att.net



Press Kits and Interviews:

Katie Lanegran
Dish Communications, Inc.
(818) 508-1000  FAX (818) 508-1193
dishpr@aol.com
 
  --------------10792B9510D9CAF0DB4A13BB-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: Text of Executive Order Designating Combat Zones (fwd) Date: 14 Apr 1999 19:23:44 PST On Apr 14, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Bubba has done it again. One step closer to war. Sua Sponte, Huck > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0413-137.htm > Text of Executive Order Designating Combat Zones > U.S. Newswire > 13 Apr 18:22 > > Text of Executive Order Designating Combat Zones > To: National and International desks > Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100 > > WASHINGTON, April 13 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following is the text > of an Executive Order, released today by the White House: > > EXECUTIVE ORDER > - - - - - - - > > DESIGNATION OF FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA > (SERBIA/MONTENEGRO), ALBANIA, THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, > AND ADJACENT WATERS AS A COMBAT ZONE > > Pursuant to the authority vested in me as President by the > Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including > section 112 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (26 U.S.C. 112), I > designate, for the purposes of that section, the following locations, > including the airspace above such locations, as an area in which > Armed Forces of the United States are and have been engaged in > combat: > > -- The Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia/Montenegro); > > -- Albania; > > -- the Adriatic Sea; > > -- the Ionian Sea north of the 39th parallel. > > For the purposes of this order, I designate March 24, 1999, as > the date of the commencement of combatant activities in such zone. > > > WILLIAM J. CLINTON > > THE WHITE HOUSE, > April 13, 1999. > > -0- > /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ > 04/13 18:22 > > > Copyright 1999, U.S. Newswire [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Fratrum: Re: Text of Executive Order Designating Combat Date: 14 Apr 1999 20:01:46 -0700 At 07:23 PM 4/14/1999 PST, you wrote: >On Apr 14, Huck wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > >Bubba has done it again. One step closer to war. > >> >> Text of Executive Order Designating Combat Zones >> To: National and International desks >> Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100 >> >> EXECUTIVE ORDER >> - - - - - - - >> >> DESIGNATION OF FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA >> (SERBIA/MONTENEGRO), ALBANIA, THE AIRSPACE ABOVE, >> AND ADJACENT WATERS AS A COMBAT ZONE >> >> Pursuant to the authority vested in me as President by the >> Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including >> section 112 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (26 U.S.C. 112), I ----------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^---------------- >> designate, for the purposes of that section, the following locations, >> including the airspace above such locations, as an area in which >> Armed Forces of the United States are and have been engaged in >> combat: Let's not get too alrmed by this; it's actually a tax break for military folk serving there, since pay earned in a declared combat zone is tax free. Note, of course, that the President has no Constitutional authority to declare war, but he DOES have the authority to tell the Infernal Revenue Service where and when to apply the combate exclusion rule. Back in the early 70's, when the Viet Nam war was still going on, military folk from the Philippines used to hop flights into Viet Nam so that they could re-enlist there, in a combat zone, and have their reenlistment bonuses tax-free. Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press." "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson", pp.46 - 47, Presented by John Dewey Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 15 Apr 1999 12:41:24 -0700 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of John Curtis > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 8:15 AM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > > > > > >I think we should be a lot more humble in our abilities to predict. > > > >Nothing I have seen from our best foreign policy analysts > convices me they > >know much about the future in detail. Foreign policies of other > countries > >are the big unknown -- how will they react to our actions? > > > >Nobody predicts our domestic policies very well, and so I don't > think anyone > >can predict the outcome of any action we take. > > > > I agree that our predictive abilities are small. > > >If you can't predict, you should not prescribe. > > > Incorrect. Counter-example: No one could predict the > outcome of the Cold War. A lot of evil was done under the > auspices of the Cold War, but a greater evil was defeated: > the Soviet Union was reduced from a world-model totalitarian > state to a crumbling third-world kleptocracy (with nuclear > weapons, of course). > I think the Soviet Union was largely the result of WWI. I think its being so anti-American was at least partly the result of our intervening on the side of the Royalty in their revolution. WWII and the course of the Cold War were part of a progression in the size and scope of governments world-wide. That it went so far, and continues, is at least partly due to our betrayal of our Constitution. We do not present the world with a counter-example, a successful small-gov in a big-country, a neutral which is a clear winner. Would the Soviet Union have failed anyway? Of course, really stupid gov (totalitarian is the most extreme form of stupid gov) is not sustainable. That our gov is growing so stupid is the main reason we are all so concerned about our own futures. Revolution/collapse happens down the road we are taking. You are, fundamentally, making the argument our gov does SOME good. No question, even the Soviet Union did some good. Nevertheless, we have become a collectivist (big gov, individuals live for the good of the whole) society as a result of our opposition to their collectivist society. I am making the argument we need to stop that line of progression, because it is known to fail. Freedom wins every time, over the long haul. We are, apparently, going to have to prove this again. People who argue for big, activist gov in any arena have no standing to oppose it in others. They have already accepted the fundamental premise > > >This is part of the benefits of limited government. It prevents us from > >doing > >the same damn stupid things that govs have been doing for > hundres of years, > >for all of the same flawed reasons. > > > I believe that America is exceptionalist on four counts: > > a. willing to fight for an ideal of freedom abroad. > > b. willing to exemplify that ideal by incorporating various > ethnic groups into our society under a common model of > citizenship. > > c. unwilling to live under European model - high taxation, > cradle-to-grave socialism. > > d. explicit rule of law protections for individual rights. > > > I don't see a. and b. as contradicting c. and d. > Merely your willingness to support big, activist government in one arena and oppose it in another. How, exactly, do you differentiate your fundamental position from the most extreme anti-war socialist? I see examples of these people daily on TV. I disagree with both of you equally strongly, and for exactly the same reasons. > > >We make enemies whenever we do anything in foreign affairs, and > our internal > >security gets more power and $ every time we have another terrorist > >incident. > > > I agree with this last sentiment. We need to fight to > preserve civil rights, limited policing, etc. at home. > > If we retreat into neo-isolationism, what reason do you have > to believe that our rights will be eroded any slower? We have > to fight internal battles for freedom, as well as external. > You use isolationism like it is a bad word. Go back over our foreign policy initiatives of the last 50 years. Which ones turned out as expected? Even close? Korea? Didn't exactly win there, didn't quite lose either. Stalemate. VietNam? Vital to our nation's security. Couldn't let the Soviets/Chinese beat us. Worth 50,000 dead and a $1T national debt (real dollars in those days). Cuba? Nicaragua? ... In every case, outside/US opposition was the major prop to otherwise bankrupt, no support dictatorships. If everyone were neutral, but intent on defending their own borders, a lot of 2-bit dictatorships would fall of their own weight in a short time. Seems to me we might learn that mere territory doesn't gain you much as a nation/empire. Our Vietnamese outproduce theirs by 100 - 1. If we were really rational, we would open the borders to the Kosovo Albanians. In 20 years, we would have another big blip in our economy. (This one is, you know, riding on the productivity of all of the imigrants we have taken in over the last 20 years. Here in Silicon Valley, most engineering teams are at least 50% foreign. Manufacturing is run by Chinese and Vietnamese. Software QA is run by Russian Jews.) As much as I despise the Chinese gov, I say open the border to the movement of trade and people. Split their society into a million factions. Let it reform itself. We win, they win. > >Ultimately, all of our do-goodism in foreign affairs (as well as > domestic) > >will cost us our freedom. > > > > > ciao, > > jcurtis > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harry Barnett" Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 15 Apr 1999 15:55:31 -0700 I have no argument with anything you have said on this subject, except the following excerpt: -----Original Message----- >Freedom wins every time, over the long haul. This is untrue. Oppression wins over the long haul. If you were correct, and Freedom wins every time, it would be the predominant condition over the entire planet, and it would have been established as such a long time ago. Freedom is unstable. As long as there exist even SOME human beings who want to steal the wealth, toil, tears, blood and sweat of any other human beings who do not or can not resist such oppression, the former will keep inflicting their practice of conquest and confiscation upon the rest of us. The problem with freedom is many or most people can't deal with it. With freedom comes the responsibility to fend for yourself, and nature holds you accountable for your level of effort. Freedom allows people to get comfortable and lazy, and before you know it, they want to be free, but some pigs are more free than others, and so it goes. Free people have trouble forming together in communities and maintaining them without using their superior numbers, weapons, capability of producing material goods, the list goes on, to oppress others, including other "free" people and communities. Sorry, freedom is NOT the way to bet over the long haul. Just look at the poll results on the impeachment. If you can believe them, the fellow on your one side and the two fellows on your other side have opted out of the ethic of integrity and willingness to be held accountable. These personal character traits are absolutely essential for freedom to prevail and survive. As time goes by, once the individuals in any culture abandonsthese traits in sufficient numbers, lack of these traits accelerates and gets worse. Freedom presents an unstable situation. People seek stability and predictibility in their lives. Collectivism gives the appearance of providing this. Responsibility and accountability become community issues, attaching to a committee, instead of remaining individual issues. Individuals opt of the free individual environment because they are inherently lazy, and they wish to satisfy their wishes, wants, desires, and needs in the easiest possible way. Collectivist rhetoric makes collectivism appear to be an attractive path to this end, and people become conveniently blind to the downside of embracing the collectivist ethic, because they are too lazy to intellectually deal with it, analyze it, and see for themselves what the inevitable result always is. Hell, they don't even have to crack a book on philosophy, all they have to do is read history, and see all the failed examples, and they are too lazy even to do that. "For narrow is the gate, and strait is the way, and few there be that find it." Other than this one thing, the rest of your points are right on, IMO. Harry E. Barnett harryb@hbbse.com http://www.hbbse.com -- It isn't what we don't know that hurts us. It's what we know that isn't o. --Will Rogers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 15 Apr 1999 17:06:26 -0400 (EDT) You ask how I would defend big government intervention in world affairs, as you are philosophically and practically opposed to big government, as it in antithetical to freedom. I have to state first that I agree that WWII, at least, gave the U.S. the first really strong example of central government, completing by "total war" trends that were only started by the Civil War. This trend is undoubtedly the source of many evils in our present society, though not all. Aside from that, my defense is to ask what would have happened if the U.S. had adopted an isolationist stance post WWI? a. Nazi Germany grew out of pressures and personalities formed by WWI and the world depression of the 20's. Hitler's conquest in Europe and intent to conquer England would have gone unchecked. Scratch England off the map, add a "super" Germany dominating Europe and probably fighting Russia. b. Scratch European Jews off the map, as the super Germany unopposed by the U.S. and with England conquered would have no outside power capable of stoping the Holocaust. c. scratch Switzerland, the Scandinavian countries, the Balkans, Italy, -> essentially all of Europe and North Africa. c. Nazi "Super" Germany and the Soviets would have wrangled on for a while, probably with high losses on both sides. Without the distraction of effective opposition on the Western front, who know what the Germans might have done? do you still want to play? kind of makes Vietnam and the Korean War look like tiddley winks. If the U.S. had *not* entered WWII, then all of Europe and most of Africa and all of Asia would have been under either a totalitarian facist state or a totalitarian Communist state. Thats a lot of people. With a lot of anti-freedom plans and actualities. 50 odd years ago Americans fought for Freedom, with a capital F. And they won. If you *really* want to go back to an era where isolationism and a weak Federal alliance of states worked, you're going to have to roll back to approx. 1840 or so, some 70 or 80 years post the Revolution. Now, whether the Cold War was a "good fight" is open to more nuanced debate, but you didn't start there. You actually started at WWI. I'm sure that someone will cook up a might have been that demonstrates that the whole horror of the latter half of the 20th century would have never happened if only we had stayed out of WWI Maybe. I doubt it strongly. Now, if you want to confince me that the current administration is incapable of planning past next week, you won't get too much of an argument from me. But philosophically opposed to any kind of intervention? You won't catch me occupying those shoes. This intervention looks really ugly and badly planned. I do believe that isolationism is a dirty word. I don't believe that we must intervene in every conceivable conflict. ciao, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: McGehee's News & Comment - April 15, 1998 (fwd) Date: 15 Apr 1999 17:25:43 PST On Apr 15, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT (c) 1999 KEVIN McGEHEE North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ TWO CAN PLAY AT THAT GAME Bill Clinton, master of distraction, may have outwitted himself this time. After an entire presidency built on the strategy of distracting his enemies and the American people from discussion of any matter of substance, he has now offered a perfect distraction, under cover of which the Republican Congress could, if it would, resurrect some of the ambitious program that got them hammered in the media during 1995 and 1996. With Suzie Soccermom focused on the human suffering in Kosovo, it would seem downright unpatriotic for Clinton and his stormtroopers to try to divert her attention back to domestic policy matters. The approach would have to be coupled with a constant stream of GOP grumbling on the Sunday morning talk shows about how, when it comes to Kosovo, Clinton is making it up as he goes along. Keep OBS and its print subsidiaries focused on the Accidental War, the Quagmire, Mr. Clinton's Big Adventure -- with plenty of opportunities for Bill Kristol to lambaste us latter-day Know-Nothings for our narrow interpretation of "national interest." You know Big Media can't resist a good all-Republican food fight! And while the media dogpack forgets altogether about matters of importance within America's own borders, Congress can enact needed entitlement reforms, pass an Endangered Rights Act to roll back the Endangered Species Act, repeal a whole slew of Clinton's executive orders, enact a Tax Code Sunset Act, pursue ways to get Leftist advocacy groups out of taxpayers' pockets for their funding, and just all around exploit this golden opportunity. If there were really such a thing as a Republican Party, it would already be happening. Picture it: Social Security privatized. Unwatered-down Medical Savings Accounts a reality. The Department of Educracy abolished. Thousands and thousands of IRS employees joining the squeegee squad. Bradys I and II repealed and the Ugly Gun Ban overturned. The private ownership of real estate decriminalized. Oh, what a frabjous day that would be! Won't happen, though. What Snideley Blumenthal imagines as a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy couldn't organize a sock drawer if it contained only one pair of socks. ================================================================ YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK On this fine April day, I just wanted to remind you of some of the things your hard-earned money pays for. * Billions of dollars from the so-called surplus -- which actually consists of Social Security FICA revenues -- have been expended on a feel-good mission in the Balkans, where a billion-dollar stealth fighter has been shot down and three American soldiers captured and imprisoned God knows where. * Heavily armed SWAT teams at the disposal of paper-shuffling agencies for the purpose of terrorizing those who use the incorrect gauge of staples in submitting their paperwork. * Housing hundreds of illegally obtained raw FBI files in the White House while Clinton operatives "catalog" the contents to ensure the right documents get returned to the FBI sometime during the next century. * Security and protection details to keep the Chief of ChiComs from being embarrassed or discomfited during a money drop -- er, I mean, state visit -- to Washington, D.C. * A high-level salary to the illegally appointed Bill Lann Lee. Ticked off yet? If not, then consider that when all your taxes are figured up, and all the costs incurred as a result of complying with bureaucratic demands are added to the mix, your 40-hour week includes about 22 hours spent working to support Elmer Fed. Annoyed yet? If not, how about the use of Secret Service personnel to harass a woman who accused Clinton of doing what, as we later learned, Monica did? Or the use of Secret Service personnel to try to intimidate a clergyman who merely told the President that God would hold him to account? Still not miffed? Then you must be one of those people who thinks because you got a refund you "don't pay taxes." In other words, a perfect Clinton voter. -30- The Ides of April 1999 ================================================================ **Visit the McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT archives** http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/news&comment/ The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:57:23 -0700 I did start with WWI, for a purpose. Had the US not intervened, serious historians indeed argue that WWI would have been nearer a stalemate, and that the Allies could not have forced such an uneven peace treaty. Had the treaty been less onerous on the German people, and had the US not been experimenting with the beginning phases of its trend to socialism (banking laws, income tax, Smoot-Hawley), the Great Depression would not have happened. It is fairly well accepted, I believe, that the combination of the Depression and the treaty propelled Hitler to power. Lew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Groups angered by armed raid on hospital (fwd) Date: 15 Apr 1999 22:06:44 PST On Apr 15, Sandra Fleming wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Thought some of you would be interested in this. I know I wouldn't want some agent to detain me in some room for doing my job. Isn't that called kidnapping? Maybe I'm getting paranoid. Does this sound right? Sandra The Associated Press KNOXVILLE -- A small rural hospital in McMinn County with no history of violence was raided by 37 armed, flak-jacketed agents on a mission to collect Medicare and Medicaid records. The American Hospital Association and the Tennessee Hospital Association are outraged by the Feb. 24 seizures at four locations owned or operated by the 72-bed East Tennessee facility, Woods Memorial Hospital District, Etowah. "Send in the accountants with pocket protectors to seize the records Don't send in the FBI agents with guns and flak jackets," Craig Becker of the Tennessee Hospital Association told the Knoxville News--Sentinel. "This is inappropriate behavior," said Mary Grealy, chief counsel for the American Hospital Association. :I don't think this should ever occur at a hospital. This is not the same as if you were dealing with drugs or something like that. Hospital employees claim agents "constantly trampled through sterile areas" where patients receive dialysis treatment, wouldn't let them use the restore or answer a phone without permission and kept a dozen workers in a small room for about an hour while records were checked. The inspector general's office at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services oversaw the operation. Agents involved came from the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service, the Tennessee Valley Authority and the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. Judy Holz, a spokeswoman for the HHS' inspector general, disputed some of the employees' claims. She said no one was detained more than 10 minutes. "Our policy is to go in and cause minimal disruption and have utmost respect for both the patients and the employees," she said. Agents routinely carry weapons during a seizure, she said, in case they must "protect themselves...(or) control the environment." But hospital spokesman Chris Trew said, "This is a modern hospital facility with well-educated physicians, well-educated staff. There was no danger that was posed to these folks (agents). They did not have to come in armed." Holz said no charges have been filed in the Etowah hospital case, though such investigations can take two to five years. Meantime, the hospital groups are lobbying Congress to require the Justice Department to establish guidelines for future raids at hospitals so agents will have to leave their guns and bulletproof vests at the door. Johnson City Press, Wednesday, April 14, 1999, p.12. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Military Mutinies Date: 16 Apr 1999 00:11:46 PST According to an interview with Nurse and Gulf War Vet Joice Reilley, there is a large scale Mutiny going on in the Military because of the Military's insistance that the Troops be given Anthrax Vaccine. They say that it's been improved and tested at Veterinary Schools, but _NONE_ of the Veterinary Schools in the whole Country confirm this. Other Sources admit that there have been _NO_ improvements, alterations, or testing since the Gulf War. The Nat. Guard and Reservists who refuse are being let go, but those under regular enlistment are going through h*ll over this. Those running this are trying to get permission to experiment on the general populace. This stuff has allready been released into the General populace, however, in that numerous Gulf War Vets have given blood to the Red Cross etc. This has been going on during and since the time Mrs. Dole ran it. You can find out more at , (that might be singular, I haven't checked it yet). You can also look up a document called, "vaccinations", at , for Religious grounds to refuse vaccinations. They hassle you about it, so you'll want the exact Biblical references. This years, "Rolling Thunder", will visit the Pentagon when they go to Wash. D.C., and the above is going to be some of the stuff they focus on. If you aren't hip to "Rolling Thunder", picture a 25 mile stretch of Freeway filled up with Vets riding Harleys. Lets Pray that our Communist In Chief hasn't got the huevos to try Eisenhower's, "shoot 'em down", approach. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: U.S. Journalists to Jail (fwd) Date: 16 Apr 1999 07:40:39 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Cc: flight-800@home.ease.lsoft.com Dear Committee to Protect Journalists (www.cpj.org), I want to inform you about two American journalists and authors that are heading to jail as a result of their efforts to make their research findings known. Even as the U.S. Government decries the jailing of journalists in Serbia, jail cells in the U.S. are being readied to silence American journalists. DAVID HOFFMAN, editor of the Haight Ashbury Free Press (http://webcom.com/haight), is an American journalist facing jail time. Hoffman's crime was sending a copy of his book to a grand jury that was convened to investigate the Oklahoma City bombing. Hoffman's book alleges a government cover-up of a larger conspiracy in the OKC bombing. His book can be read on-line here: http://www.constitution.org/ocbpt/ocbpt.htm JAMES SANDERS is another American journalist that government prosecutors want to put in jail. Sanders was convicted for having accepted physical evidence from the Flight 800 crash that was given to him by a TWA pilot who was a member of the investigation. Sanders had that evidence tested and published the findings in his book and several newspaper reports, which claim that a Navy missile struck Flight 800. The effort by the U.S. Justice Department to track down Sanders's source by reading his email without a warrant was said to be a threat to journalism by The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press. The law that Sanders was convicted of violating was written to stop souvenir hunters from taking debris from a crash site. Sanders didn't try to remove the evidence from the public, in fact, only he made it available to the public, giving us a second opinion about the cause of the crash. For that most heinous "crime," Sanders now faces up to 10 years in prison. The TWA pilot, Terrell Stacey, was the person who removed the evidence, yet Sanders, who wrote about the evidence, was the primary target of the Federal prosecution. Captain Stacey was even given time off for testifying against Sanders. The motive of the Federal prosecution was therefore to punish the person who wrote about the evidence, not the person who may have broken the law by taking it. Clearly, the goal was to punish the act of speech. I hope that all organizations dedicated to freedom of speech like the Committee to Protect Journalists will speak out against jailing these journalists. The ability to investigate one's government free from fear of persecution is a defining feature of a free society, as it should be for America too. James Sanders Database ========================================== http://www.mediainfo.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stories/082198n1.htm http://members.wbs.net/homepages/r/o/b/robertd202/sanders.PDF http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/CRASH/TWA/sanderscase.html http://www.newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=1999/4/14/101749 http://www.angelfire.com/hi/TWA800/#sanders http://members.aol.com/bardonia/sanders.htm The residue Sanders tested was NOT glue, contrary to FBI/media claims: http://www.twa800.com/affidavi.htm http://www.accessone.com/~rivero/CRASH/TWA/BASS/bassett.html http://www.multipull.com/twacasefile/residues.html Seat cushions with the residue disappeared from the hanger: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2639/no_res.html To contribute to James Sanders's legal defense fund, make checks payable to "United States Justice Foundation." Mail to: James Sanders, P.O. Box 336, Charles City, VA, 23030. **************************************************************** VISIT Ian Williams Goddard ----> http://www.erols.com/igoddard G O N E -> http://www.erols.com/igoddard/threats.htm#DISAPPEARED ________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 16 Apr 1999 09:47:56 -0400 (EDT) > >I did start with WWI, for a purpose. Had the US not intervened, serious >historians indeed argue that WWI would have been nearer a stalemate, and >that the Allies could not have forced such an uneven peace treaty. > I believe that my argument is stronger. Your argument hinges on a weak hypothetical that no U.S. intervention in WWI would have somehow resulted in a different Europe in which Hitler would not have arisen. My argument hinges on the fact the Hitler did arise, did attempt to dominate Europe and was stopped by the Allies with the secondary fact that without U.S. support England would have fallen along with most/all of Europe. The fights against Facism and Communism were good fights. We all hope for a world in which no U.S. intervention is neccessary, unfortunately that world does not now exist. regards, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 16 Apr 1999 17:09:52 -0700 So, you fundamentally support the gov tactic of causing a crisis, and then growing in power by 'solving' it? Where do you want that progression to end? We are quite considerably less free today than in 1917 when we began our Holy crusades against various evil governments. The scale of government screw-ups has been increasing -- 25M dead in WWI, 50M+ dead in WWII, 100M civilians killed by their own govs in the 20th century. WRT "good wars", gov does SOME good, mostly by accident. WWII and the Cold War were not all bad in their outcome. Some people are alive who would not have been. But, MANY, MANY dead who would be alive, based upon your flimsy historical hypothesis that the US was crucial to stopping Hitler. However, the fundamental is that nations appear to be VERY VERY bad at knowing their own self-interest, at least what is best for the great majority, as opposed to some elites. Viet Nam is a fine example. Part of the Cold War. Western Civilization hung in the balance. Couldn't let the Russians/Chinese win this one. Bad for the US position in the world, ... All, in retrospect, complete BS. We lost the war, badly. We betrayed a lot of good people we should never have made promises to in the first place. And, Communism collapsed. Inevitably, because it is inherently stupid government. Many more people would still be alive in Viet Nam, and Vietnamese communism would have evolved toward capitalism faster, if the US had never intervened. We wouldn't still be paying for the war 100 years from now. (The last dependent of a Civil War vetern died only a few years back, and so we stopped paying for the Civil War at that point.) So, governments should not have foreign policies. Absolute neutrality is the only stable state for limited government. Individuals, may have foreign policies if they wish. If you had wished to oppose Hitler, join a Lincoln Brigade, ..., go to it. I may even help fund your efforts. I strongly support your right of expression in foreign affairs, just as in domestic. I strongly oppose your coersion of my support, and performing these acts of war in my name. lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of John Curtis > Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 6:48 AM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > > > > > >I did start with WWI, for a purpose. Had the US not intervened, serious > >historians indeed argue that WWI would have been nearer a stalemate, and > >that the Allies could not have forced such an uneven peace treaty. > > > > I believe that my argument is stronger. Your argument hinges > on a weak hypothetical that no U.S. intervention in WWI would > have somehow resulted in a different Europe in which Hitler > would not have arisen. > > My argument hinges on the fact the Hitler did arise, did attempt > to dominate Europe and was stopped by the Allies with the secondary > fact that without U.S. support England would have fallen along > with most/all of Europe. > > The fights against Facism and Communism were good fights. > > We all hope for a world in which no U.S. intervention is > neccessary, > unfortunately that world does not now exist. > > regards, > > jcurtis > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harry Barnett" Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 16 Apr 1999 20:43:47 -0700 -----Original Message----- >However, the fundamental is that nations appear to be VERY VERY bad at >knowing >their own self-interest, at least what is best for the great majority, as >opposed to some elites. > >Viet Nam is a fine example See Barbara Tuchman, _The March of Folly_ for six more "fine examples". These six examples she uses were chosen because they fulfilled two criteria: (1) The courses chosen by governments were perceived as folly by contemporaries; (2) The governments persisted in their chosen course in spite of this foreknowledge. Thus, the title to the book. Harry E. Barnett harryb@hbbse.com http://www.hbbse.com -- It isn't what we don't know that hurts us. It's what we know that isn't o. --Will Rogers - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: check out _this_link Date: 16 Apr 1999 19:34:34 -0700 I just came across a _very_ interesting link for those of us with previous time in the Armed Forces. I'm once again glad that I had nothing to do with Desert Storm. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/REPORTS/JERRYP/gulfsyn.html Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press." "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson", pp.46 - 47, Presented by John Dewey Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Please Vote: Fwd: Gun Law Poll (fwd) Date: 16 Apr 1999 23:51:57 PST On Apr 16, CR Howard wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:28:06 -0700 >From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" >Subject: Gun Law Poll > >Please vote in the following poll pertaining to the shooting yesterday >in Salt Lake. You may have to page down just a bit to see it on the >right hand side. We were losing just now. Please forward along to your >mailing lists. > >http://deseretnews.com/dn [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: S L I C K - List of POWs (fwd) Date: 17 Apr 1999 11:11:12 PST On Apr 17, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Anyone who can confirm or deny this list, is asked to respond to RichSlick@aol.com Staff Sgt. Andrew A Ramirez, 24 of Los Angeles 1. Jeremiah Wheeler, Norfolk, Virginia 2. Brad Wheeler, St Augustine, Florida 3. Barbara Wheeler, St Augustine, Florida 4. Bambie Kunz, St Augustine, Florida 5. Kay Neff, St Augustine, Florida 6. Wayne Neff, St Augustine, Florida 7. Marcia Garrett, Brimfield, Indiana 8. Jack Garrett, Brimfield, Indiana 9. Bob Prinselaar, Fresno, California 10. John Adams, York, Pa. 11. Cheryl Boswell, Denham Springs, Louisiana 12. Gordon Boswell, Denham Springs, Louisiana 13. Brett Boswell, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 14. Fara Allen, Baton Rouge, Louisiana 15. Vic Vilionis, Montreal, Canada 16. Joan Samuelson, Houston, TX 17. Beverly Haire, Punta Gorda, Fl. 18. Kimberly Thomas-Bowles, Florida 19. Sandy Easton-Long Beach, California 20. Debbie Withrow-Lusby, Maryland 21. Jim and Em Nicholson, Woodbridge, Virginia 22. Steve & Sheila Whapham Washington, Indiana 23. Willie Dougherty, Austin, Tx 24. Joe Oliver, Houston, TX 25. Shonda M. Ponder, Houston, TX 26. Gene R. Ritter, Houston, TX [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: S L I C K - List of POWs (fwd) Date: 18 Apr 1999 10:58:45 PST Sorry about the confusion folks, and thanks to those who helped track this one down. Now we all know that USCMike1 is not to be trusted, whatever his affiliations..... On Apr 17, David Gonzalez wrote: >Folks, this is just more of USCMike1 (Michael Johnson)'s bullsh*t! Please >look at the list carefully---out of 28 "service-people held captive in >Yougoslavia", what is the possibility of there being no fewer than FIVE >married couples? (Numbers 2&3, 5&6, 7&8, 11&12, and a double on 21) > >One of the names on the list, "Shonda Ponder", supposedly sent this list >to USCMike1, but he--being a sloppy government agent provocateur--didn't >bother to do his research. The list is merely a group of people who have >agreed to form a PRAYER CHAIN to offer prayers for Messrs. Rameriz, >Gonzales, and Stone! > >USCMike1 just co-opted the list and used it for his own purposes, which >were to further advance rumors about subterranen FEMA death-camps and >poisonous sticky white jet contrails! > >(Original message from USCMike1 available on request) > >David M. Gonzalez, Troglodyte >Wheeling, Illinois > >Replies/Abuse: gonzalez@mcs.com > > >On Sat, 17 Apr 1999, Bill Vance wrote: > >> On Apr 17, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >> >> >> Anyone who can confirm or deny this list, is asked to respond to >> RichSlick@aol.com >> >> Staff Sgt. Andrew A Ramirez, 24 of Los Angeles >> >> 1. Jeremiah Wheeler, Norfolk, Virginia >> 2. Brad Wheeler, St Augustine, Florida >> 3. Barbara Wheeler, St Augustine, Florida >> 4. Bambie Kunz, St Augustine, Florida >> 5. Kay Neff, St Augustine, Florida >> 6. Wayne Neff, St Augustine, Florida >> 7. Marcia Garrett, Brimfield, Indiana >> 8. Jack Garrett, Brimfield, Indiana >> 9. Bob Prinselaar, Fresno, California >> 10. John Adams, York, Pa. >> 11. Cheryl Boswell, Denham Springs, Louisiana >> 12. Gordon Boswell, Denham Springs, Louisiana >> 13. Brett Boswell, Baton Rouge, Louisiana >> 14. Fara Allen, Baton Rouge, Louisiana >> 15. Vic Vilionis, Montreal, Canada >> 16. Joan Samuelson, Houston, TX >> 17. Beverly Haire, Punta Gorda, Fl. >> 18. Kimberly Thomas-Bowles, Florida >> 19. Sandy Easton-Long Beach, California >> 20. Debbie Withrow-Lusby, Maryland >> 21. Jim and Em Nicholson, Woodbridge, Virginia >> 22. Steve & Sheila Whapham Washington, Indiana >> 23. Willie Dougherty, Austin, Tx >> 24. Joe Oliver, Houston, TX >> 25. Shonda M. Ponder, Houston, TX >> 26. Gene R. Ritter, Houston, TX >> >>[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) Date: 18 Apr 1999 15:04:28 -0700 The flaw in Tuchman's book is the idea that you can have policies which are not folly, except by accident. We live in a world far too complex for predictions to be any better than weather predictions, and for the same reasons -- A) we don't know the equations controlling the systems to better than rough approximations; B) we don't know the initial conditions in enough detail; C) The equations are non-linear with 'chaotic' feedback; and D) There isn't enough computer power in the universe (and won't ever be) to solve the equations even if A nd B weren't true. Most of us still have a Newtonian view of the Universe -- Chaos theory and computational complexity are not part of our gut-level understanding. Consequently, we think we can predict the future, and no number of counter-examples convinces us that we are wrong. (Even without personal and institutional incentivies to assume the reverse -- how many economists and bureaucrats would be out of work if they admitted they couldn't see the future?) Tuchman's book would have been much better (I though it was pretty boring -- didn't finish it) had she taken 6 examples of government policies where were universally judged to be sound, but which turned out disastrously. (I can't think of any just now -- disastrous results is easy, but "sound in the eyes of contemporaries is the tough part.) Individuals face the same problems, but have lots more detailed information, and play with much smaller stakes. Even failures provide information to our fellows playing in the economic-social evolutionary system we are part of. We have, therefore, statistics. Also, much stronger feedback systems (failure hurts for individuals), and therefore a real incentive to be as rational as possible Governments don't have so many examples, much less feedback and much delayed feedback, and consequently less incentive to be rational, as opposed to political. One must conclude that govs shouldn't have economic, social or foreign policies. There is simply no evidence that anyone has predictive abilities in any of these areas. If you can't predict, you shouldn't prescribe. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Harry Barnett > Sent: Friday, April 16, 1999 8:44 PM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lew Glendenning > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 5:09 PM > Subject: RE: Fratrum: Eagle Forum Kosovo Petition (fwd) > > > > >However, the fundamental is that nations appear to be VERY VERY bad at > >knowing > >their own self-interest, at least what is best for the great majority, as > >opposed to some elites. > > > >Viet Nam is a fine example > > See Barbara Tuchman, _The March of Folly_ for six more "fine examples". > These six examples she uses were chosen because they fulfilled > two criteria: > (1) The courses chosen by governments were perceived as folly by > contemporaries; (2) The governments persisted in their chosen course in > spite of this foreknowledge. > Thus, the title to the book. > > Harry E. Barnett > harryb@hbbse.com http://www.hbbse.com > -- > It isn't what we don't know that hurts us. It's what we know that isn't > o. --Will Rogers > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: US GROUND TROOP DEPLOYMENT (fwd) Date: 18 Apr 1999 16:37:27 PST On Apr 18, 206140826@worldnet.att.net wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 16, 1999 INHOFE SAYS BALKAN DEPLOYMENT OF U.S. GROUND TROOPS HAS BEGUN Says Move is Illegal; Decries Clinton Dishonesty; Will Travel to See Troops in Albania Next Week WASHINGTON U.S. Sen. James M. Inhofe (R-Okla.), chairman of the Senate Armed Services Subcommittee on Readiness, said today that the deployment of ground troops into the Yugoslavian combat zone has already begun, despite denials from the White House that the administration is even contemplating such a move. For all practical purposes, the debate about ground troops is over, Inhofe said. As I predicted months ago, and as I warned at the outset of the air campaign, President Clinton has always wanted U.S. ground troops in Kosovo, they always knew that air power alone would not work, and now the initial deployments are going on as we speak. The announcements this week, that 4800 soldiers are being dispatched to staging areas in Albania to support our Apache helicopters and that up to 33,000 guard and reserve troops are being activated, tell the story. Why are all these 4800 troops going in? Not simply to fly the Apaches that are being deployed. A typical Apache battalion numbers fewer than 400 troops. So why are the other 4000 and more troops there? Because this is a dangerous environment, with no support infrastructure, that poses great risk to our forces on the ground. Indeed, the President this week declared Albania and other areas surrounding Kosovo as an official combat zone for military pay purposes. And I am convinced this is only the beginning. In my judgment, this deployment is not only a mistake, it a clear violation of the law. The Roberts Amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill specifically prohibits such troop deployments to Albania and other named countries in the Balkans before a series of conditions are met and notices are given to the Congress. This provision has not been fully complied with regarding the troop transfers with the Apaches. Six months ago on CNN, Inhofe predicted that President Clinton would deploy ground troops to respond to the Kosovo situation and now it is happening. Most troops in this initial deployment will be on the ground by next Thursday, when Inhofe is planning to arrive in the area on a special trip to assess the situation. He said he wants to especially examine the potential risks that will exist to the lives of our forces there on the ground. Inhofe emphasized that this troop deployment and the combat zone designation were ordered this week directly by the President in his role as Commander-in-Chief. These actions were taken during the very week the President maintained in public statements that he has no intention to deploy ground troops. Inhofe said this kind of deception and dishonesty continues to undermine the President s credibility with the public and with other countries throughout the world. Inhofe expressed concern for the safety and welfare of U.S. troops and emphasized that his statements today were motivated solely by a concern that the deployments to the Yugoslavian theater would serve to weaken the military s ability to defend America and America s truly vital security interests around the world. | The Senator's Home Page | Biography | Committees | Offices | Constituent Services | | Press Releases | Newspaper Columns | Legislation | Floor Statements | Other Links | U.S. Senator James M. Inhofe (R - Oklahoma) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: skip Subject: Re: US GROUND TROOP DEPLOYMENT (fwd) Date: 18 Apr 1999 18:16:31 -0700 You do recognize this as partisan propaganda, right Bill? No difference from the well-spun White House lies. Skip - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: US GROUND TROOP DEPLOYMENT (fwd) Date: 18 Apr 1999 22:09:32 PST On Apr 18, skip wrote: >You do recognize this as partisan propaganda, right Bill? > >No difference from the well-spun White House lies. > >Skip It came from DC didn't it? It's allways best to take that stuff with a grain of salt, but in this sort of instance, I'm not so sure it's needed. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: DC Waco Memorial 4-18-99 (fwd) Date: 19 Apr 1999 07:38:44 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Because I've been so busy organizing against the Balkans war, I haven't had a chance to finish my latest Waco update which does have some good news! Hopefully soon. Come on by if you are in D.C. area. Below the press release is info on the 4-19-99 Davidian Survivor Memorial outside of Waco. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D COMMITTEE FOR WACO JUSTICE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Carol Moore 202/635-3739 Alan Forschler 202/797-9877 WACO VIGILERS WARN: CLINTON DESTROYS KOSOVO AND SERBIA LIKE HE DID BRANCH DAVIDIANS IN 1993 Washington, D.C.--On Sunday, April 18th from noon to 3 p.m the Committee for Waco Justice will erect 82 crosses in the northwest quadrant of the Ellipse, south of the White House for Davidians killed by the FBI on April 19, 1993. The Committee also will display a banner reading "FBI Killed a Village and Its Children" and carry signs linking Clinton's aggression against Davidians and in the Balkans today. Carol Moore, coordinator of the Committee and author of the mass market paperback The Davidian Massacre, asserts that Clinton is "wagging the dog" with the U.S.-led NATO bombings on Kosovo and Serbia. She states, "Clinton's bombings of Iraq, Sudan and Afghanistan coincided with initial allegations of adultery, his admission of adultery, the House of Representatives' vote on impeachment and the televising of Juanita Broaddrick's credible rape allegation. Although Clinton escaped impeachment, he continues to face jeopardy: leaked FBI files that he raped and assaulted other women; reporters hounding these women to speak out; federal investigators interrogating former Clinton business partners and Chinese government-linked campaign contributors; a forthcoming Congressional report on Clinton's laxity in stopping Chinese government spying at U.S. weapons facilities; reports that Clinton allowed China to legally import nuclear weapons manufacture equipment." Similarly in 1993, after a brutal February 28 BATF attack that killed six Davidians and a 51-day standoff due to FBI mismanagement of negotiations, Clinton was eager to end an embarrassing situation. Therefore he approved a dangerous FBI plan to assault a multiracial church filled with 23 children, 36 women and 34 men with gas and military tanks. He knew that the building was a firetrap filled with flammable fuels and lighted lanterns. During the April 19, 1993 attack a tank knocked over a lantern, causing a fire; 76 people trapped by tank debris or frightened of being shot by FBI snipers burned to death. The next day President Clinton claimed "some religious fanatics murdered themselves." Former White House FBI agent Gary Aldrich revealed in an October, 1998 speech: "Bill Clinton was embarrassed that he was not able to figure out what to do about David Koresh and Waco. It was becoming his hostage situation. He was being compared to Jimmy Carter. And so they wanted the Department of Justice to get rid of the mess...But the President told me to my face that he felt so bad about this =91mass suicide.'" The Academy Award nominated film "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," details evidence that BATF shot from helicopters, that FBI tanks started the fire and that federal agents shot at Branch Davidians during the fire. (Http://www.waco93.com) Clinton's bombing of Serbia and Kosovo has prompted Serb attacks on Kosovoan Albanians and the exodus of a million refugees. NATO bombings have killed hundreds of Albanians and Serbs and may yet lead to accidental or intentional nuclear war between Russia and the U.S. The Committee for Waco Justice, which has held over 20 protests in D.C. in the last six years, informs America that Waco was just a warning of the kind of Holocaust that may face the world because of Clinton's selfishness and recklessness. Call the numbers above for more information. -- Carol Moore in D.C. CarolMoore@kreative.net http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/Davidian-massacre.html http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/C&C-news.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D MT. CARMEL SURVIVOURS SIXTH ANNUAL MEMORIAL SERVICE 9:00 A.M. Monday, APRIL 19, 1999 AT 1785 DOUBLE EE RANCH Rd. (Off FM 2491) MT. CARMEL, WACO, TEXAS Contact: (254) 799-7556 for more information. Directions and Map to the Mount Carmel Site... http://domain.flash.net/~wyla/events.htm =3D=3D=3D Directions To Mount Carmel: 1785 Double EE Ranch Road east if Waco. Take I-35 into Waco, Texas. Get Off at North Loop 340 (also known as: Lake Shore Dr.) Head East until you get to Farm Rd 2491. Turn Left onto Farm Road 2491. Go 8 to 9 miles until you get to the "Y" in the road. Veer Left at the "Y" and continue about 1`/2 mile to two blue water tanks. Turn Left onto EE Ranch Road. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: About Politics (fwd) Date: 19 Apr 1999 15:33:44 PST On Apr 19, Don Loftus wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I got this from a friend of mine and thought the folks here on the list would appreciate it. Don Loftus Gainesville, Fl --------------------- Teach Your Child About Politics by Joseph Sobran Because I write about politics, people are forever asking me the best way to teach children how our system of government works. I tell them that they can give their own children a basic civics course right in their own homes. In my own experience as a father, I have discovered several simple devices that can illustrate to a child's mind the principles on which the modern state deals with its citizens. You may find them helpful too. For example, I used to play the simple card game WAR with my son. After a while, when he thoroughly understood that the higher ranking cards beat the lower ranking ones, I created a new game I called GOVERNMENT. In this game, I was Government, and I won every trick, regardless of who had the better card. My boy soon lost interest in my new game, but I like to think it taught him a valuable lesson for later in life. When your child is a little older, you can teach him about our tax system in a way that is easy to grasp. Offer him, say, $10 to mow the lawn. When he has mowed it and asks to be paid, withhold $5 and explain that this is income tax. Give $1 to his younger brother, and tell him that this is "fair". Also, explain that you need the other $4 yourself to cover the administrative costs of dividing the money. When he cries, tell him he is being "selfish" and "greedy". Later in life he will thank you. Make as many rules as possible. Leave the reasons for them obscure. Enforce them arbitrarily. Accuse your child of breaking rules you have never told him about. Keep him anxious that he may be violating commands you haven't yet issued. Instill in him the feeling that rules are utterly irrational. This will prepare him for living under democratic government. When your child has matured sufficiently to understand how the judicial system works, set a bedtime for him and then send him to bed an hour early. When he tearfully accuses you of breaking the rules, explain that you made the rules and you can interpret them in any way that seems appropriate to you, according to changing conditions. This will prepare him for the Supreme Court's concept of the U.S. Constitution as a "living document". Promise often to take him to the movies or the zoo, and then, at the appointed hour, recline in an easy chair with a newspaper and tell him you have changed your plans. When he screams, "but you promised!", explain to him that it was a campaign promise. Every now and then, without warning, slap your child. Then explain that this is defense. Tell him that you must be vigilant at all times to stop any potential enemy before he gets big enough to hurt you. This, too, your child will appreciate, not right at that moment, maybe, but later in life. At times your child will naturally express discontent with your methods. He may even give voice to a petulant wish that he lived with another family. To forestall and minimize this reaction, tell him how lucky he is to be with you the most loving and indulgent parent in the world, and recount lurid stories of the cruelties of other parents. This will make him loyal to you and, later, receptive to schoolroom claims that the America of the post modern welfare state is still the best and freest country on Earth. This brings me to the most important child-rearing technique of all: lying. Lie to your child constantly. Teach him that words mean nothing - or rather that the meanings of words are continually "evolving", and may be tomorrow the opposite of what they are today. Some readers may object that this is a poor way to raise a child. A few may even call it child abuse. But that's the whole point: Child abuse is the best preparation for adult life under our form of GOVERNMENT. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: EIA Communique - 4/19 (fwd) Date: 19 Apr 1999 22:46:28 PST On Apr 19, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -----Original Message----- The Education Intelligence Agency COMMUNIQU=C9 =97 April 19, 1999 Now on the Web at http://members.aol.com/educintel/eia + Measure for Measure: A Magnified Look at Standardized Test Scores is already receiving significant press attention. Rachel Smolkin of Scripps Howard News Service was the first to file, and stories have subsequently appeared in the Houston Chronicle, Rocky Mountain News, Bradenton Herald, Boston Herald and Albuquerque Journal. There's something for everyone in = it. Single copies are free and quickly available (although not electronically, I'm afraid) by contacting EIA. + NEA and AFT, as with most business and labor entities, usually see to = it that their rhetoric and revenue coincide. When they are at odds, it helps= to keep quiet about it and hope no one notices. Last week's item about NEA a= nd Nike was one example and this week, in the interest of fairness, we have = one for AFT. AFT has a business arrangement with BATNET, a full-service Internet provider. Through the company's "Affinity Marketplace," AFT members can s= hop on-line and receive a rebate for anything purchased in the members-only commerce area. BATNET has partnerships with a number of vendors. For each sale to a member, AFT receives a commission. Last week, OfficeMax, Inc. announced that it will be the exclusive office products retailer to BATNET's partners, including AFT. With 852 st= ores in 49 states, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, it's hardly surpri= sing that OfficeMax should be a front-runner for AFT's business. Nor is it surprising that AFT should enter into an agreement to supplement dues inc= ome. What may be surprising is that AFT would accept a commission on sales fro= m a company with 39,000 employees -- not a single one of whom is subject to a collective bargaining agreement. + EIA also detects some union schizophrenia on the topic of distance learning. Technological advances have created a boom in "virtual college" courses and training. And, as is usually the case, the technology has outpaced the rules and regulations governing its uses. The unions are evidently worried that on-line courses could lead to a reduction in the teaching force. AFT commissioned a study by the Institute for Higher Education Policy which concluded the rapid growth of on-line learning is not justified by = the results achieved thus far. "We think a lot of it is vendor-drive, not educator-driven," said AFT spokesman Jamie Horwitz. AFT then placed newsp= aper ads questioning distance learning. This prompted a San Francisco Chronicl= e editorial criticizing AFT for "big- money ad campaigns aimed at nonexiste= nt foes." NEA also got into the act, mailing a CD-ROM to its higher education members which is critical of distance learning. The union offers a comedi= c vision of "the market driven future" in which "MacCollege Inc." leases sp= ace in local malls and hires on-line faculty situated in the "low-wage Maquiladora area of Mexico." Other colleges have faculty members who hire "Screen Actors Guild agents to handle their appearances and negotiate the= ir residuals." But while NEA is yukking it up, some of its affiliates are embracing distance learning. The Ohio Education Association is offering two on-line courses for graduate credit through Ohio State University. The courses ar= e "Strategies for Daily Survival" and "Successful Grant Writing Procedures.= " The California Teachers Association announced, with much fanfare, a new partnership with OnlineLearning.net. The company will provide continuing higher education courses through UCLA. "Expanding the professional development opportunities for our members is a major priority for CTA," s= aid CTA President Lois Tinson. "We looked to OnlineLearning.net and UCLA Extension as leaders in this field to provide our members with top-qualit= y, relevant, and accessible development opportunities." + There isn't expected to be any problem getting the necessary votes to merge from the NEA and AFT affiliates in Florida. Most delegates are high= ly supportive of the plan. But even here, affiliation with the AFL-CIO remai= ns the biggest concern of those who aren't entirely sure. Officials of the Florida Teaching Profession-NEA have spent a great deal of time at region= al hearings trying to dispel that concern. Citing AFL-CIO's history, FTP-NEA claims its negative image is some sort of plot by, well, who else? "Through the media, management and administration interests have spotlighted a negative public view of the AFL-CIO and all unions," wrote FTP-NEA President Maureen Dinnen. "I believe such interests want to aboli= sh collective bargaining so they can dictate to employees." The union is als= o using an intriguing argument for AFL-CIO affiliation, saying "The unions = in AFL-CIO are made up of members who are the parents of our students." It's hard to see the point of that argument, since "the parents of our students" also include CEOs, right-wingers and evangelical Christians= -- not to mention that of every seven workers in America, six do not belong = to a union. Platitudes contributed to the defeat of national merger last year. Florida doesn't seem to have learned that hard lesson. + During his election campaign, California Gov. Gray Davis emphasized hi= s service in the military. Now, he's displaying what he learned during his = Army years -- for one thing, his understanding of the word "volunteer." Davis proposed that all students of the state's colleges and universities be required to perform voluntary community service. While generally supporti= ve of the idea, some union organizers are concerned that it may become a sou= rce of cheap labor. Attorneys, on the other hand, are already thinking about = the benefits of possible litigation. The Education Law Association recently published a book by Ronald T. Hyman entitled "Mandatory Community Service= in High School: The Legal Dimension." + The Charleston County (SC) School Board paid the IRS $550,000 in penal= ties over the last three years because it did not spend school bond money fast enough. In 1994, the board issued bonds for school construction and renovation, but did not spend the money within the two-year time limit. Federal law institutes a time limit to prevent districts from issuing bon= ds and then collecting interest on the money while it sits in the bank. "Everyone now is very much aware that we need to pay these bonds as quick= ly as possible," Jerry Hartley, director of business services, told the Charleston Post-Courier. + Quote of the Week: "People want change. I don't think they know exactl= y what that means." -- Milwaukee Teachers Education Association Executive Director Sam Carmen to Education Week, after all five union-backed candid= ates lost school board elections. # # # The Education Intelligence Agency conducts public education research, analysis and investigations. Director: Mike Antonucci. Ph: 916-422-4373. = Fax: 916-392-1482. E-Mail: EducIntel@aol.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: URGENT: New online petition for privacy! (fwd) Date: 20 Apr 1999 09:37:10 PST On Apr 19, List Manager wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] URGENT: New petition for privacy now online! * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * You are receiving this URGENT BULLETIN because you registered at the DefendYourPrivacy.com web site and asked us to keep you informed. To remove yourself from our list, simply hit REPLY and put the word "unsubscribe" in the SUBJECT field. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Our online campaign against the FDIC's proposed "Know Your Customer" rule was an incredible success! More than 250,000 public comments were filed against this assault on financial privacy -- enough to stop it dead in its tracks. And, more than two-thirds of those comments were generated via http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com. Thank you! However, the battle isn't over yet. As you probably have already discovered, the Federal Reserve's Bank Secrecy Act Compliance Manual pressures banks to develop policies similar to Know Your Customer -- policies that over 88% of banks have begun to implement. After the heat dies down, the Federal Reserve Board hopes that they can simply repackage Know Your Customer as "policy guidelines" instead of "regulations". We can't allow this to happen. Congressman Ron Paul has introduced two bills that would put an end to Know Your Customer once and for all: * The Know Your Customer Sunset Act (HR 516), which would prohibit Federal Banking agencies like the FDIC from implementing any form of Know Your Customer regulation. It already has over 50 cosponsors. * The Bank Secrecy Sunset Act (HR 518), which would sunset the reporting requirements of the Bank Secrecy Act -- the underlying legal authority for Know Your Customer regulations. . If enough Representatives cosponsor these bills, Congress will be forced to schedule public hearings. Given the broad-based opposition to Know Your Customer, there is a real chance of enacting at least one of the bills into law -- if we act now! We've launched a new online petition at http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com to help build public opposition to Know Your Customer and pressure members of Congress to cosponsor HR 516 and HR 518. Like before, people who visit the site can sign an email petition, which will be immediately sent to their U.S. Representative, and their two U.S. Senators. They can also get additional information about Know Your Customer, The Bank Secrecy Act, HR 516, and HR 518; arrange to forward copies of the letter below to their friends and family; and read press releases and news articles about the regulation and the growing campaign to repeal it. We need you to do two things right now to make this campaign a success, and persuade members of Congress to cosponsor HR 516 and HR 518: 1) Please visit http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com and sign the petition. 2) Forward the letter below to your friends and family. By triggering a chain reaction on this issue, we can generate hundreds of thousands of emails to Congress, and repeal Know Your Customer once and for all. While it is important that you forward this letter to anyone who might be interested, it is also important that we not engage in indiscriminate spamming. If at all possible, please address each message to the individual you're sending it to and put your name on it. Thank you for participating! - - - - PLEASE SEND THE MESSAGE BELOW TO YOUR FRIENDS - - - - - - - I'm participating in an Internet campaign to repeal regulations from the federal government which will force your bank to spy on you, and I'd like to invite you to join me. Please forward this message to any friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, or other people you know who may be interested, then go to http://www.defendyourprivacy.com and sign the petition. It will be submitted directly to your Representative in the U.S. House. Plus, a copy will be sent to both your U.S. Senators. In December 1998, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) proposed a so-called "Know Your Customer" rule. If enacted, Know Your Customer would have required banks to monitor your checking and savings account, and report any "unusual transactions" to the federal government. This frightening threat to your financial privacy would have forced your bank to: * Discover your source of funds * Determine your "normal and expected transactions" * Report any "suspicious activity" to federal investigators However, in the face of overwhelming public opposition, generated in large part by an Internet campaign like this one, the FDIC withdrew their proposed Know Your Customer regulation. However, the battle isn't over yet. It turns out that the Federal Reserve's "Bank Secrecy Act Compliance Manual" pressures banks to develop policies similar to Know Your Customer, policies that over 88% of banks have begun to implement. After the heat dies down, the Federal Reserve Board plans to repackage Know Your Customer as "policy guidelines" instead of "regulations". The government claims it is trying to thwart money launderers and drug dealers. But what this law does is turn every bank teller into a government informer and everyone with a bank account into a criminal suspect. In a free society, the government has no business asking where you get your money or how you spend it -- and politicians have no right to force your bank to monitor your account. Know Your Customer doesn't need to be "repackaged" -- it needs to be repealed. Congressman Ron Paul has introduced the Know Your Customer Sunset Act (HR 516) and the Bank Secrecy Sunset Act (HR 518) that together will repeal existing Know Your Customer reporting requirements, and prevent any new KYC rules from being implemented. Together, these two bills will guarantee that our financial privacy will be respected. Over 250,000 outraged Americans flooded the FDIC with e-mails, letters, and faxes during Know Your Customer Round One -- and the FDIC backed down! Now we need to make sure Congress finishes the job by passing HR 516 & HR 518. Let's keep up the pressure! Please forward this e-mail to everyone you know who might be interested in helping. But please don't send it indiscriminately -- spam will only hurt our campaign. Then go to http://www.DefendYourPrivacy.com and sign the petition. Thank you. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: While the Bodies were still warm Clinton plans attacks on Guns Date: 21 Apr 1999 12:52:33 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Capitol Hill Blue-04/21/99 04:26:38 Clinton, looking for ways to capitalize on Colorado high school shootings, may move to ban guns By DOUG THOMPSON The Clinton Administration may use the tragic school shootings in Colorado to propose sweeping new gun control legislation that could lead to an outright gun ban or require Americans to register every gun they own with the federal government, Capitol Hill Blue has learned. Within minutes of learning of the shootings that left at least 15 people dead in the Denver suburb of Littleton, the Clinton spin team went into action, generating memos on the best ways for the President to capitalize on the tragedy. "The President asked for a number of scenarios for the best way to deal with the situation," one White House aide said Tuesday night. "At first he was going to decry the incident and call for new gun bans. Some advised against doing so that quickly, so he backed off and just went with a short statement that said it was too soon to say anything." Aides say Clinton spent most of Tuesday afternoon monitoring the situation where at least two students at Columbine High School in Littleton went on a shooting and bomb throwing spree before killing themselves. White House pollsters worked the phones, sampling public opinion, trying to guage just how far Americans voters would let the administration go. Hours later, Clinton went before a press conference and hinted that the federal government may use the tragedy for stronger action by the federal government. "I think after a little time has passed, we need to have a candid assessment about what more we can do to try to prevent these things from happening," Clinton said. According to White House sources, among the options being prepared for Clinton's consideration: * An outright ban on handguns and an expanded list of "non-sporting" weapons; * Mandatory registration of all guns owned by Americans; * Laws to make parents criminally responsible when their children use guns to commit a crime; * Entering the many lawsuits that cities have filed against gun manufacturers (on the side of the cities); * Federal funds to place metal detectors in all American schools; * Federal money to place undercover police officers in schools; * Federally-mandated school dress codes that would ban gang colors and other "non-appropriate attire;" * Banning student shooting teams at schools. "The President made it very clear he wants to take action on this," said one White House senior aide. "He will not allow this incident to pass without taking action. He feels the public will support whatever course of action he decides to take." One source said White House spinmeister Sidney J. Blumenthal has urged the President to use the Colorado shootings to divert attention from both the China spying scandal and the Kosovo war that has resulted in mounting criticism of the White House. Blumenthal reminded the President that his "show of concern" during the Oklahoma City Bombing revived his Presidency just when Clinton's popularity was at its lowest ebb. "Leave it to Sid to find a bright spot in a public tragedy," says veteran public relations man Samuel Wastell. "I'll bet you there's a poll in the field right now testing the public's support for new gun control legislation." Gun show owner John Hylton said he isn't surprised to learn the Clinton administration is considering a new gun ban. "He will use this to curry favor with the gun-control advocates," Hylton said. "But that's not the answer. From what I understand, these kids also used pipe bombs. Pipe bombs are already illegal, but that didn't stop the kids from using them." Clinton also ordered his staff to see check into a trip to Colorado immediately following the NATO summit in Washington. "He feels a very public show of support is very important right now," one aide says. "It's a shame the NATO conference might get in the way of this." ========================================================================== - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Silver Subject: [Fwd: CNN Poll -- guess who's blaming guns...] Date: 21 Apr 1999 13:40:20 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------06F819C0F6E8233F07528117 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Steve Silver Vice President: The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. 18034 Ventura Blvd., No. 329, Encino, CA 91316 (818) 734-3066 The LSAS is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation * * * Get the TRUTH About Guns. Visit: http://www.guntruths.com/ * * * "If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?" Doug Doty, Helena MT, 1998 --------------06F819C0F6E8233F07528117 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="nsmail9E.TMP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="nsmail9E.TMP" Return-Path: Received: from bulk.starnine.com (bulk.starnine.com [198.211.93.99]) by ixmail9.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id KAA03523; ; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mikeh.starnine.com (mikeh.starnine.com [198.211.93.36]) by bulk.starnine.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA07844; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mikeh.starnine.com with ADMIN;21 Apr 1999 10:26:28 -0700 Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by starnine.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA22865; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:08:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from paulpayn (pool071-pm1.ds32-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net [209.178.114.71]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA03912; Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990421094927.00981220@mail.earthlink.net> X-Sender: nrausmc@mail.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Cc: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_4966189==_.ALT" --=====================_4966189==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" THE QUESTION IS: Who or what is most responsible for school violence? THE CHOICE OF ANSWERS ARE: Kids Parents Schools Media Access to guns All of the above None of the above SO FAR, GUNS ARE BEING BLAMED AND KIDS & THE MEDIA ARE GETTING OFF!!!! Go to this site and VOTE!!!! http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/poll/ Spread it around. Do not let them blame our rights for others wrongs. The results can be found at: http://www.cnn.com/POLL/results/128301.html Paul --=====================_4966189==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" THE QUESTION IS:
        Who or what is most responsible for school violence?

THE CHOICE OF ANSWERS ARE:
        
         Kids

         Parents

         Schools

         Media

        Access to guns

         All of the above

         None of the above

SO FAR, GUNS ARE BEING BLAMED AND KIDS & THE MEDIA ARE GETTING OFF!!!!  


Go to this site and VOTE!!!!    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/poll/


Spread it around.   Do not let them blame our rights for others wrongs. 


The results can be found at:       http://www.cnn.com/POLL/results/128301.html


Paul



--=====================_4966189==_.ALT-- --------------06F819C0F6E8233F07528117-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: Konformist: LANDMARK BILL TO ABOLISH IRS & FEDERAL INCOME TAXES (fwd) Date: 21 Apr 1999 16:37:41 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- =BF Please send as far and wide as possible. Thanks, Robert Sterling Editor, The Konformist http://www.konformist.com http://www.konformist.com/1999/abolish-irs.htm TAUZIN AND TRAFICANT INTRODUCE LANDMARK BILL TO ABOLISH IRS & FEDERAL INCOM= E=20 TAXES http://www.house.gov/traficant/apr1599.html Thursday, April 15, 1999 Reps. Tauzin and Traficant Not for commercial use. Solely to be used for the educational purposes of research and open discussion. Washington, D.C. (April 15, 1999) - U.S. Reps. James A. Traficant, Jr. (D-OH) and Billy Tauzin (R-LA) today introduced legislation to abolish the Internal Revenue Service and federal income tax, replacing them with a 15 percent national retail sales tax. At a press conference and rally held on Capitol Hill this afternoon Traficant issued the following statement: "First of all, I want to thank former Congressman Dan Schaefer of Colorado who spearheaded this effort in the last Congress with Billy Tauzin. I am honored to follow in his footsteps. I'm also thrilled and excited to be working with my good friend, Billy Tauzin. For years I advocated a flat tax coupled with a small consumption tax. Dan Schaefer and Billy Tauzin, through their powerful and logical arguments, convinced me that the National Retail Sales Act is the best plan, by far, to reform the way in which the federal government collects revenue. It's also the best plan to ensure America's economic future. Change in this town does not happen overnight. You need to have vision and you need to be persistent. Most important, you need to ignore what the so-called experts have to say. In 1985, my first year in Congress, I began an effort to stop IRS abuses and enhance taxpayer rights. I was told at the time that I was tilting at windmills. But I dug in my heels and never gave up. Last year the President signed a major IRS reform bill into law. That bill included two provisions I championed for 13 years. The first shifts the burden of proof in a civil tax case from the taxpayer to the IRS. The second requires a judge's order before the IRS can seize the family home. Prior to the enactment of this bill into law I won some other victories such as the establishment of taxpayer sensitivity training for IRS agents, the creation of a special taxpayer advocate's office within the IRS, a dramatic increase in civil penalties for IRS agent misconduct and giving taxpayers the right to sue the IRS. These were important reforms. But despite all of this progress, we are still left with a tax system that, in my opinion, is broken beyond repair. I've come to realize that reforming the IRS and snipping at the margins of the income tax are not enough. The tax code is too complex. It penalizes achievement and investment. It rewards dependency and failure. The only way to ensure sustained economic growth in America is to abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace it with a system that is simple and fair. That's why I decided to join Billy Tauzin in introducing the National Retail Sales Tax Act. It's an excellent piece of legislation. We don't have all the answers. But we do have the detailed blueprint of a bold plan to dramatically reshape the way in which the federal government collects revenue. The question we are posing today is this: What is the least intrusive and most efficient way for the federal government to collect revenue? The fact is, the American people already are paying a de facto national sales tax every time they make a purchase. Businesses pass on the cost of paying income taxes to consumers. In a very real sense, consumers are the ones who pay corporate income taxes - not corporations. The national sales tax will usher in a new era in which every American will know exactly how much in federal taxes they pay every year. It will usher in a new era in which the federal government will no longer penalize and discourage investment, entrepreneurship and saving. A new era in which businesses can shift the billions of dollars they spend every year on CPAs and tax lawyers into more productive uses - uses that will generate American jobs. To ensure that the basic necessities of life remain tax free, the Tauzin-Traficant bill provides every wage earner with a refund equal to the sales tax rate times the poverty level (adjusted for the number of dependents claimed) in every paycheck. As a result, every wage earner can consume up to the poverty level free of any federal taxes. The basic test of any tax plan is the impact it will have on average American families. The Tauzin-Traficant plan passes this test with flying colors. Under the current system, a family of four earning $50,000 a year takes home about $3,437 a month. Under the National Retail Sales Act, that same family would take home $4,084 a month - an increase of more than $647 a month. We have a long road ahead of us. Today is the beginning of a long campaign to educate the American people about this bold plan. I am excited to be a part of it. I am convinced that once people examine how this plan will work, they will embrace it as the best way to unlock America's future economic potential. Most significantly, it is the best way to reorder the relationship between the American people and the federal government. To quote Rush Limbaugh, The Internal Revenue Code is immoral, punitive and un-American. Our Founding Fathers created a beacon of freedom, a nation where government was to be the servant of the people, not the master. I agree with that statement 100 percent! The National Retail Sales Act is a dramatic initiative to restore to our government the original vision of the Founding Fathers. Now it's time to roll up our sleeves and get to work!" SUMMARY OF THE NATIONAL RETAIL SALES TAX ACT OF 1999 INCOME TAX REPEALED: The personal and corporate income tax -- including income taxes on capital gains and savings -- estate and gift tax, and all non-trust fund dedicated excise taxes are repealed. IRS ABOLISHED: The Internal Revenue Service is de-authorized, as of fiscal year 2001, allowing time to close out previous tax years. No successor agency is established. The Secretary of the Treasury will administer the new tax system. SALES TAX IMPOSED: A tax of 15 percent is imposed on the gross receipts from the sale of any taxable good (foreign and domestic) or service in the United States. The amount of tax paid on every transaction must be fully disclosed to the consumer. NO REGRESSIVITY: To ensure that the basic necessities of life remain tax free, every wage earner receives a refund equal to the sales tax rate times the poverty level (adjusted for the number of dependents claimed) in every paycheck. As a result, every wage earner can consume up to the poverty level free of any federal taxes. EXEMPTIONS: No tax will be imposed for any good or service which is purchased for re-sale; purchased to produce a good or service for retail; exported from the United States; or for the purchase of education and training. SOCIAL SECURITY: Social Security benefits increase to reflect the sales tax by directing the Social Security Administration to adjust the Consumer Price Index to include the sales tax in their benefit formula if the Labor Department does not include the sales tax in the CPI. SAVINGS AND INVESTMENTS: Income going to savings and investments is not taxable until consumed. Investment income is not taxable until consumed. SUPER-MAJORITY REQUIRED: A 2/3rds vote of both Houses of Congress is necessary to raise the sales tax rate or create any exemptions to the sales tax. THE FAMILY HOME: Home mortgage interest is not "consumption" and therefore is not taxable. Sales tax on mortgage principal is payable in equal installments over the life of a 30-year mortgage. Persons who are homeowners on the date of enactment will be deemed to have paid the sales tax on their home. TAXPAYERS PROTECTED: The burden of proof lies with the government in any dispute with a taxpayer. CO-SPONSORS: In addition to U.S. Reps. Billy Tauzin (R-LA) and Jim Traficant (D-OH), other original co-sponsors of the bill are U.S. Reps. Joe Scarborough (R-FL), Tom Campbell (R-CA), Helen Chenoweth (R-ID), Ralph Hall (D-TX), John Linder (R-GA), Sue Myrick (R-NC), Charlie Norwood (R-GA), Bob Stump (R-AZ), Thomas Tancredo (R-CO), Sonny Callahan (R-AL), Jim DeMint (R-SC), Joel Hefley (R-CO), Collin Peterson (D-MN), Duncan Hunter (R-CA) and Kevin Brady (R-TX). If you are interested in a free subscription to The Konformist Newswire,=20 please visit http://www.eGroups.com/list/konformist/ and sign up. Or, e-mai= l=20 konformist-subscribe@egroups.com with the subject: "I NEED 2 KONFORM!!!"=20 (Okay, you can use something else, but it's a kool catch phrase.) Visit the Klub Konformist at Yahoo!:=20 http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/klubkonformist V-Tech Computer For Kids! Challenge your kids with activities in math, trivia, vocabulary, spelling, grammer! Looks just like your PC! No- Hassle Returns*Satisfaction Guaranteed*Only $90.00 Free Freight in US http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/144 eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/konformist Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 07:47:28 PST On Apr 21, Ed Wolfe wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] This really pisses me off. I guess because of the international nature of the internet, our government is free to block our access to foreign websites. What that means, is that our government is now openly censoring the free flow of information. The alert from Walter Burien, below, is correct. Before I even finished reading it, I went to access the page I get a balanced perspective from regarding military activities in Yugoslavia. I now get the message that the site does not have a DNS entry or doesn't exist. Thank you Big Brother for determing what info I can and can not access. But don't think for a minute that I'll now start reading and BELIEVING what our own propaganda machines pump out with the label of "news." The truth is still out there - and we'll find it. Ed Wolfe PLEASE DISTRIBUTE A.S.A.P. It was reported today that a security department (NIA, DOD, CIA) of the U.S. Government has blocked access to web sites displaying direct information on the war activities in Yugoslavia. On the report it referenced www.yugoslavia.com . I checked and it was inaccessible. The report referenced the sites were blocked so the public would not be able to see posts of what is now considered the real reason for the military action in that country, that being the theft of the multi trillion dollar strategic mineral wealth of that country. (5-6 trillion dollars) The site I was getting first hand info from was: http://www.serbia-info.com/news As of today this site was also nonassessable. People here in this country better wake up real fast. If they don't the consequences from their ignorance and lack of effective action will be total devastation of the life they now know. Those that laugh and scoff at the future consequences of our countries aggression now will be those that will be crying and screaming tomorrow, if they can. Walter J. Burien, Jr. ---------------------------- [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:20:22 -0400 (EDT) > >The site I was getting first hand info from was: > http://www.serbia-info.com/news > >As of today this site was also nonassessable. People here in this >country >better wake up real fast. If they don't the consequences from their > I cannot access the site above, but I also was unaware of it prior to this message. IOW, I don't have information that can confirm the interpretation above. If there is some infowar going on to eliminate information out of Yugoslavia via the net, it is not very extensive, as I was just able to access: Radio Belgrade: Text and RealAudio news presentations from the capitol of Yugoslavia: http://www.beograd.com/radioyu/ Official Yugoslav Federal Secretariat of Information web site: http://www.gov.yu/sszi/index.html both of these are official yugoslavian sources of information. Here's a site that I can't reach: http://www.greater_serbia.org/news/index.html (the reason I can't reach it is because I just made it up). if infowar is manipulating the net, we need better evidence than this. skeptically yours, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: LITTLETON SCHOOL MASSACRE NOT WORST IN U.S. HISTORY (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 08:12:38 PST On Apr 22, Mike Riddle wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] To place things in terrible perspective, it's not a recent phenomenon, we just have selective memories: LITTLETON SCHOOL MASSACRE NOT WORST IN U.S. HISTORY A massive error is circulating in the media about Tuesday's Colorado school tragedy: It was not, repeat, not the worst attack on a school in United States history. [NEW YORK TIMES: "It was the largest death toll in an act of terrorism at one of the nation's schools." REUTERS: "The country's worst school massacre, in Littleton, Colo." UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL: "The worst school massacre in U.S. history."] On May 18, 1927, 45 people were killed, including 38 elementary students, by a series of dynamite explosions at the Bath Michigan School. After detonating explosives he planted under the school, "maniac bomber" Andrew Kehoe, a school board member and treasurer and farmer, blew up his pickup truck, killing himself and the Bath School superintendent. "I don't remember hearing any noise, but I remember flying in the air and seeing things fly between me and the sun," remembers AdaBelle McGonigal, then 11 and in the fifth grade. "But I don't ever remember falling." AdaBelle's ear was nearly torn off in the blast that killed 38 of her classmates. Seven adults also died that day. Because this happened so long ago, it is something that most reporters don't know about and have failed to reference in the coverage of the Littleton, Colorado nightmare. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 10:14:07 +0100 'Kay folks, two things: 1) No DNS is the most generic "error" on the web. It can be as simple as the web server being overwhelmed 2) Serbia-info is working right now. So are a couple of my other favorites: http://www.inet.co.yu/ http://moumee.calstatela.edu/~sii/odrazb/n_990303/0324991e.htm are also working as I type this. Fluke or dark conspiracy, you be the judge. -Boyd Bill Vance wrote: > > On Apr 21, Ed Wolfe wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > This really pisses me off. I guess because of the international > nature of the internet, our government is free to block our > access to foreign websites. > > What that means, is that our government is now openly > censoring the free flow of information. The alert from > Walter Burien, below, is correct. Before I even finished > reading it, I went to access the page I get a balanced > perspective from regarding military activities in Yugoslavia. > > I now get the message that the site does not have a DNS > entry or doesn't exist. > > Thank you Big Brother for determing what info I can and > can not access. > > But don't think for a minute that I'll now start reading > and BELIEVING what our own propaganda machines pump out > with the label of "news." > > The truth is still out there - and we'll find it. > > Ed Wolfe > > ----------------------------------------------- > PLEASE DISTRIBUTE A.S.A.P. > ----------------------------------------------- > It was reported today that a security department (NIA, DOD, CIA) of the > U.S. > Government has blocked access to web sites displaying direct information > on > the war activities in Yugoslavia. On the report it referenced > www.yugoslavia.com . I checked and it was inaccessible. The report > referenced the sites were blocked so the public would not be able to see > posts of what is now considered the real reason for the military action > in > that country, that being the theft of the multi trillion dollar > strategic > mineral wealth of that country. (5-6 trillion dollars) > > The site I was getting first hand info from was: > http://www.serbia-info.com/news > > As of today this site was also nonassessable. People here in this > country > better wake up real fast. If they don't the consequences from their > ignorance > and lack of effective action will be total devastation of the life they > now > know. Those that laugh and scoff at the future consequences of our > countries > aggression now will be those that will be crying and screaming tomorrow, > if > they can. > > Walter J. Burien, Jr. > ---------------------------- > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:29:11 PST On Apr 22, John Curtis wrote: >>The site I was getting first hand info from was: >> http://www.serbia-info.com/news >> >>As of today this site was also nonassessable. People here in this >>country >>better wake up real fast. If they don't the consequences from their >> > > I cannot access the site above, but I also was unaware of it > prior to this message. IOW, I don't have information that > can confirm the interpretation above. > > If there is some infowar going on to eliminate information > out of Yugoslavia via the net, it is not very extensive, as > I was just able to access: > > Radio Belgrade: Text and RealAudio news presentations from > the capitol of Yugoslavia: http://www.beograd.com/radioyu/ > > Official Yugoslav Federal Secretariat of Information web > site: http://www.gov.yu/sszi/index.html > > > both of these are official yugoslavian sources of information. > > > Here's a site that I can't reach: > > http://www.greater_serbia.org/news/index.html > > > (the reason I can't reach it is because I just made it up). > > if infowar is manipulating the net, we need better > evidence than this. > > skeptically yours, > > jcurtis Agreed, but that's all there was. FYI, I've had reports from several people who managed to gain access, and several who couldn't. Maybe that's just the result of having a site in a War Zone, and maybe they just gave the job to an amateur. Hard to say, but that's the nature of late breaking reports.... -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: rkba-list: [Fwd: CNN Poll -- guess who's blaming guns...] (fwd) (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:29:58 PST On Apr 22, David Coburn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Not any more; guns is now 3rd. If you want another poll, try www.abcnews.com. They are running much the same thing. David coburn@scn.org Any opinions expressed are mine only, and subject to change when presented with reasonable arguments. Yeah, right. On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Bill Vance wrote: > On Apr 21, Steve Silver wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > Steve Silver > Vice President: The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. > 18034 Ventura Blvd., No. 329, Encino, CA 91316 (818) 734-3066 > The LSAS is a 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation > * * * > Get the TRUTH About Guns. Visit: http://www.guntruths.com/ > * * * > "If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out > of meat?" Doug Doty, Helena MT, 1998 > > > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:06:56 -0700 > To: > From: "H. Paul Payne" > Subject: CNN Poll -- guess who's blaming guns... > Cc: > > > THE QUESTION IS: > Who or what is most responsible for school violence? > > THE CHOICE OF ANSWERS ARE: > > Kids > > Parents > > Schools > > Media > > Access to guns > > All of the above > > None of the above > > SO FAR, GUNS ARE BEING BLAMED AND KIDS & THE MEDIA ARE GETTING OFF!!!! > > > Go to this site and VOTE!!! http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/poll/ > > > Spread it around. Do not let them blame our rights for others wrongs. > > > The results can be found at: http://www.cnn.com/POLL/results/128301.html > > > Paul > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 15:08:11 -0400 (EDT) > >> >> if infowar is manipulating the net, we need better >> evidence than this. >> >> skeptically yours, >> >> jcurtis > >Agreed, but that's all there was. FYI, I've had reports from several people >who managed to gain access, and several who couldn't. Maybe that's just the >result of having a site in a War Zone, and maybe they just gave the job to >an amateur. Hard to say, but that's the nature of late breaking reports.... > This is an interesting topic (propaganda and the control of Net dispersed information). I'd be interested in hearing more, but we have to view all information with a somewhat skeptical frame of mind (i.e. let's apply something approaching evidence). I believe the reports of the nato site being "mail bombed" just because it is so easy to do that doing it is obvious. Its fascinating to listen to the BBC guys interview "ministers of information" from Yugoslavia, etc. These guys insist that no ethnic cleansing is taking place and all refugee movement is due to NATO bombing. Very educational to listen to gov people just lie their ass off. ciao, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 22 Apr 1999 23:13:52 PST On Apr 22, John Curtis wrote: >>> if infowar is manipulating the net, we need better >>> evidence than this. >>> >>> skeptically yours, >>> >>> jcurtis >> >>Agreed, but that's all there was. FYI, I've had reports from several people >>who managed to gain access, and several who couldn't. Maybe that's just the >>result of having a site in a War Zone, and maybe they just gave the job to >>an amateur. Hard to say, but that's the nature of late breaking reports.... >> > This is an interesting topic (propaganda and the control of > Net dispersed information). I'd be interested in hearing more, > but we have to view all information with a somewhat skeptical > frame of mind (i.e. let's apply something approaching evidence). It's been a few years, but I once posted a paper on info/net/cyber war to this and other lists. It's a bit long, and has some short repeated sections due to it's having been generated as a hyper document, but every couple years or so I re-read it, and come out with totally different ideas. It even gets into early versions of networking commo, like the, "arrow riders", of the Mongols, a sort of Military Scouting version of the Pony Express. I'll send a copy if you like. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 09:17:19 -0400 (EDT) > >It's been a few years, but I once posted a paper on info/net/cyber war to >this and other lists. It's a bit long, and has some short repeated sections >due to it's having been generated as a hyper document, but every couple >years or so I re-read it, and come out with totally different ideas. It >even gets into early versions of networking commo, like the, "arrow riders", >of the Mongols, a sort of Military Scouting version of the Pony Express. >I'll send a copy if you like. > Please post it, sounds interesting. I'm now reading "Manufacturing Consent" by Noam Chomsky. Chomsky is a total socialist pinko, who thinks the U.S. embodies all the evil in the world ( <- IOW, I don't agree with his elaborate world view). However, "Manufacturing Consent" appears to have a lot of valid things to say as to how U.S. media arrives at a very heavily filtered set of "acceptable" news stories. ciao, jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vance Justice Subject: Re: LITTLETON SCHOOL MASSACRE NOT WORST IN U.S. HISTORY (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 08:34:32 -0500 I would like to rehash an old question, if I may. How many times have these mass shootings occurred within forty-eight hours prior to a scheduled legislative vote on firearms regulation? (for this instance see: http://www.denverpost.com/news/shot0420p.htm) It seems to me that the timing of these episodes is very convenient for the "antis". This strange coincidence has been mentioned during debate in Congress, but as far as I know, there has been no official inquiry into the matter. There were rumors a couple of years ago that the matter was under scrutiny by someone (NRA, a congresscritter, etc.), but I don't remember the details. Does anyone on this list have any pertinent info? -- G. Vance Justice, Jr. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: LITTLETON SCHOOL MASSACRE NOT WORST IN U.S. HISTORY (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 08:38:42 PST On Apr 23, Vance Justice wrote: >I would like to rehash an old question, if I may. > >How many times have these mass shootings occurred within forty-eight hours prior >to a scheduled >legislative vote on firearms regulation? (for this instance see: >http://www.denverpost.com/news/shot0420p.htm) It seems to me that the timing of >these >episodes is very convenient for the "antis". This strange coincidence has been >mentioned during debate in Congress, but as far as I know, there has been no >official >inquiry into the matter. There were rumors a couple of years ago that the >matter >was under scrutiny by someone (NRA, a congresscritter, etc.), but I don't >remember >the details. Does anyone on this list have any pertinent info? > >-- >G. Vance Justice, Jr. I believe it's available on L. Neil Smith's Webley page, but I don't recall the exact URL, (it's a little different from the usual format), or the exact title at the moment. It goes rather heavily into the info you're looking for, but could probably use an update for the past 3 or 5 years. It's basicaally about the Media Hype generated every time one of these things occurs, just previous to pending Legislation, listing the occurances. Running a search on, "L. Niel Smith", will probably get you there. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Boycott Sponsors of Rosie O'Donnell (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 08:39:49 PST On Apr 23, Jurist wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Paul W. Moog wrote: > > Subject: Rosie O'Donnell boycott info > Date: 22 Apr 1999 13:04:32 -0400 > From: jarbytwo@inverse.net (Jay Arby) Newsgroups: rec.guns, talk.politics.guns > > These are some of her main advertisers for the April 21 show attacking our rights to own firearms. Campbell's is a BIG advertiser. For those who don't know, Rosie O'Donnell ran a seriously anti-rights show on Wednesday, 4/21. She had Carolyn McCarthy >I am hoping that all of us out there boycott her show, but more importantly, her advertisers. I called my local station manager and he told me that they would never cancel Rosie - apparently, she's super- popular. I told him that I would talk to the advertisers and he admitted that that was the best thing to do (I give the guy credit for honesty.) At any rate, pleae PLEASE let these advertisers know that you don't want your money paying for this propaganda! Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of the RKBA, I have written a letter which, if you care to cut and paste into the corporate e-mail forms, will make it easier for you to let these corporations who are supporting Rosie O'Donnell and HCI know that they cannot kow-tow to the Left and use our cash to attack our own rights. Of course, you may write your own letters, but if nothing else, do contact them and let them know that 70 million Americans and Constitutional Rights are not something to be toyed with lightly. In liberty, Rick V. Boycott Announcement - Sponsors of Rosie O'Donnell Attn: The Campbell Soup Company http://www.campbellsoup.com Chiquita Brands Int'l Inc. http://www.chiquita.com Hormel Foods Corporation http://www.hormel.com Papa John's Int'l Inc http://www.papajohns.com Dear Ladies & Gentlemen of the Above-mentioned Companies, You are American corporations enjoying the benefits and protections of the laws and the Constitution under which this nation was founded. Most importantly for the purposes of this letter, you derive substantial profit from customers like ourselves. It is when you take the profits that you make whenever we buy your products and then devote them to a purpose that attacks and subverts Constitutional Rights that we draw the line and refuse to buy from you. We, American gunowners, of which there are over 70 million, and who often communicate by way of the internet, are furious that your profits are being used to support the Rosie O'Donnell show. Rosie O'Donnell has taken it upon herself on 04/21/1999 to use her show as a platform to attack the very basic and very essential right to self-defense, i.e. the Second Amendment Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Be advised, that until we see you withdraw your support for O'Donnell's attack on the Constitution, the very embodiment of Freedom in this nation, we can only guess that you agree with her stance. That being the case, we hereby boycott your products. Many of us are law enforcement officers, active duty military personnel, veterans, or their spouses or relatives and pay the very harsh price for these liberities, which are not to be squandered lightly. It makes no sense for us to pay good money to destroy what many are putting our lives on the line to defend. Very truly yours, The Men and Women Defenders of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: rkba-list: Fratrum: U.S. Censors the Net (fwd) (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 09:24:59 PST On Apr 23, David Coburn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ABC news is at it again, with yet another anti-gun quiz. Check it out at http://abcnews.go.com; as of 08:00 PDT it was running 1/3 anti-gun. Not that there were many choices available. coburn@scn.org Any opinions expressed are mine only, and subject to change when presented with reasonable arguments. Yeah, right. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: [FTC] Fast Track and Other Bad News (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 09:26:12 PST Seems to me that we should let them know that we disaprove _ANY_ kind of Fast Tracking as Un-American and Un-Constitutional. On Apr 23, ASSETNJ@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] It appears that the New World Order forces are pushing Fast Track=20 trade authority again. Please let your Senators and Congressmen know=20 your opposition to it. Both GOA and NRA were opposed to it last year. Lou >From: "Linda Muller" >Reply-To: linda@theamericancause.org >To: ftc@Majordomo.net >Subject: [FTC] Fast Track and Other Bad News >Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:15:22 -0700 > >Dear Friends, > >Looks like we are going up against another ominous omnibus trade=20 bill. >They can't pass their illegal unconstitutional FAST TRACK any other=20 way >but to sneak it into another piece of legislation. They even plan to >change the name from "Fast Track" to "trade negotiating authority"=20 -- ever >hopeful that the American public won't get the connection. Word is=20 that >even more bad news will be added to the bill including WTO and=20 Carribean >"NAFTA" language. Right now they are holding back on cramming in the >Africa "NAFTA" -- but my guess is if they get a feeling they can get=20 this >passed -- say a final goodbye to Made in the USA. Bill markup is=20 planned >for May 6. > >For the Cause - Linda > >----------------------------------------------- > >The Bureau of National Affairs, > >Daily Report for Executives Wednesday, April 21, 1999 > >Senate Trade Bill to Include Fast Track But House Committee Awaits=20 White >House > >The Senate Finance Committee is assembling an omnibus trade bill with >fast-track negotiating authority as its centerpiece, congressional >staffers said April 20. > >A markup is likely in early May, according to staffers who spoke on >condition of anonymity. A tentative date of May 6 has been=20 scheduled. In >the House, meanwhile, the Ways and Means Committee is pursuing its=20 trade >agenda through a variety of separate bills, another staffer said. But >there is no movement toward a bill giving the president fast-track >negotiating authority. > >Instead, the committee is impatiently waiting for the administration=20 to >offer its support for a proposal. > >"The administration has not responded or shown any interest at all,"=20 the >staffer said. > >Under fast-track negotiating authority, the administration's trade=20 deals >are shielded from legislative amendments, and require a simple up-or- down >vote in Congress to be ratified. Most observers consider the=20 authority >vital to U.S. negotiators headed into a World Trade Organization >ministerial Nov. 30-Dec. 3 in Seattle, because some countries may=20 refuse >to negotiate with the United States if they know Congress can tack=20 demands >onto any agreement. > >Fast track lapsed in 1993 and efforts to renew it have been blocked=20 by >partisan differences over the treatment of labor and environmental=20 issues >in trade negotiations. > >Omnibus Bill Under Debate > >The shape of the Senate bill remains in flux, staffers said. But=20 staffers >said fast track--or "trade negotiating authority," as the committee=20 would >like to rename it--forms the heart of the draft bill, which has been >shaped in large part by committee Chairman William Roth (R-Del.). > >Also sure to make it into the bill are goals for the WTO ministerial=20 and >enhanced trade benefits for the Caribbean countries, the staffer=20 said. But >a measure to expand trade preferences for sub-Saharan Africa was on=20 the >bubble. > >"It's a big question mark what would be included," the staffer said. >Proposals from senators were due April 16. Other elements that could=20 end >up in the final package include renewal of trade adjustment=20 assistance, a >measure to implement an Organization for Economic Cooperation and >Development agreement on shipbuilding subsidies, normalized trade >relations for Mongolia, and renewal of the Generalized System of >Preferences duty-free program. > >An omnibus trade bill (S. 2400) did not make it to the Senate floor=20 in the >105th Congress. > >Slow Progress on Fast Track > >U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky said March 17 that she >supports Roth's efforts to draft an omnibus trade package, but=20 warned that >fast-track authority cannot pass unless it is revised. > >"I don't think that [fast track] will pass without a consensus on=20 labor >and environmental issues," Barshefsky said. > >House Ways and Means Subcommittee on Trade Chairman Philip Crane (R- >Ill.) has pressed the White House to propose a fast-track measure=20 that it >would support. But no answer has come back, a House staffer said=20 April 20. > >The staffer said Ways and Means will not put forward a bill until the >administration throws its support behind a proposal. > >By Chad Bowman and Rossella Brevetti > >Copyright =A9 1999 by The Bureau of National Affairs, Inc., Washington >D.C. > > >FOR MORE NEWS VISIT OUR SITE: http://www.theamericancause.org >***************************************************************** >Please feel free to forward this email across the USA! >***************************************************************** >Join our free "FTC" - FOR THE CAUSE - List!!! >Go to: http://www.theamericancause.org/cause_listserve.html >--------------------------------------------------------------- >*** ISSUES *** *** ISSUES *** *** ISSUES *** >The American Cause Internet Headquarters >Web: http://www.theamericancause.org >--------------------------------------------------------------- >*** ACTION *** *** ACTION *** *** ACTION *** >Coalition for The American Cause Network >Web: http://www.ctacnet.org >--------------------------------------------------------------- >WebMaster - Linda Muller - linda@theamericancause.org >Smail: 6862 Elm Street, Suite 210, McLean, Virginia 22101 >Email: hq@theamericancause.org >***************************************************************** >c NOTICE In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any >copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use=20 without >profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in >receiving the included information for non-profit research and=20 educational >purposes only.[Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml] >***************************************************************** _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com **************************************************************************** Send submissions to nj-rkba@toto.com. Administrative requests (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc.) should be sent to nj-rkba-request@toto.com. The human maintainer is behanna@fast.net. For emergencies outside of working hours, reach him at behanna@fast.net. Chris BeHanna maintains this list and disclaims all formal and legal responsibility for its content. **************************************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: FWD: Some perspective on NRA going to Denver (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 10:16:57 PST On Apr 23, Mikey wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Subj: Some perspective on NRA going to Denver Hi, Folks-- There has been a lot of miscellaneous input and a bit of squawking about NRA having cancelled major portions of the Denver meetings next week. The ultimate determination if this decision was right or wrong may take some time to establish. However, appended below are a few things that a lot of folks may not have factored in when evaluating NRA's decision to scale-back the meetings. Regards, Mike Baker >Thousands of calls, faxes and E-mails have been pouring into >NRA HQ over the last couple of days and the level continues to >increase. Calls are from all over the country, and many from the >Denver area. Estimates are that calls are running 20-to-1 with >pleas, warnings and all manner of threats not to come to Denver. >Information is a little sketchy just yet, but it appears that >anti-gun entities were gearing to show up en-masse to organize >protests if NRA held a "normal" meeting. Some are certain >to show up anyway, but scaling back the meetings removes HCI's >incentives to spend a lot of resources flying organizers in. >Reports from the Denver PD are that there have been calls >promising that if NRA shows up, there will be (a variety >of threatened troubles). Wild, hysterical shreiking calls >have been made to Denver talk-shows, Denver PD and to the NRA >threatening protest and violence if NRA shows up. >Reports are that a number of parents of students killed at >Littleton have said they will go on national media to protest >NRA coming to Denver. Various media entities have contacted at >least several of the parents to see if they were planning to >protest at the NRA meetings. >The Mayor of Denver released NRA's contact information in the >Denver press; NRA phones, fax lines and e-mail are overloaded. >Early checks indicate that a large percentage of folks who were >planning to attend the meetings and trade-show have changed their >minds, worried about trouble. >It appears that a small fraction of the calls, faxes and e-mail >from outside Colorado are critical of NRA's decision to trim the >meetings. Input from inside Colorado is 20-1 against NRA coming. >A check with the industry folks who had booth space reserved at >the NRA meetings is mixed. Many said they would have cancelled >anyway because of the projected reduced attendance. Many said >"You had no choice but to cancel-- it was the right thing to do-- >It will cost a few thousand dollars of lost preparation, but the >damage from the blood-thirsty media to industry and the NRA would >have been too costly." >Others said, "A ton of money has been spent on non-refundable >air-fare tickets, the booth gear has been shipped already and >we do not want to lose our investment." >Some suggested that NRA should have carried on as usual, >except for holding a memorial service of their own and >wearing black arm-bands or something and hope that the media >feeding frenzy would not be too damaging. ---------------------- [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Leading Expert on Teenage Violence Says Guns and TV Are... (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 10:17:48 PST On Apr 23, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ASSETNJ@aol.com forwarded: > Parents and teachers should immediately become concerned if a child or > teenager: > > -- Shuts out the fear that establishes healthy and safe boundaries for > most. > > -- Is devoid of compassion and disregards the injuries of others. > > -- Bends or changes the rules to be the victor in every situation. > > -- Is unable to learn that effort and endurance often beat taking the easy > way out. > > -- Lies not just occasionally, but as a way of life. > > -- Refuses to be held accountable. > > -- Cuts himself off from other people and believes he has little to learn > from them. Omigod, this describes CLINTON! Does this mean his tiff with Serbia is just Littleton writ large? Kevin McGehee Fairbanks/North Pole, AK mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Another gun poll..... Date: 23 Apr 1999 21:18:02 -0700 http://www.cnn.com - check it out. Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "Self-government won't work without self-discipline... The abandon- ment of self-discipline has ignited a regulatory explosion. The number of government agencies has doubled in ten years. On average, for every new law passed by Congress, unelected bureaucrats turn out 18 new regulations with the force of law. ...Because some loony birds with unbuttoned brains abuse theirs, the federal government is now threatening to take away our fireworks and our firearms. It is down this road that whole nations go from regulation to regimentation to tyranny." Paul Harvey, IMPRIMIS, October 1998. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: web firearms poll (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 22:59:40 PST On Apr 23, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >** Our Latest Poll Description ** > >After the horrible tragedy in Littleton, Colorado, people in the U.S. and >abroad have been re-examining gun crimes and the laws designed to prevent >them (especially in our schools). This week's Web Poll focuses on this very >issue and we want your thoughts and feedback. Please take a moment now to >vote on this important topic. > >To share in the discussion and cast your votes, please point and click to: >http://www.dreamscape.com/throb/index.html > >We can't wait to see you there! Please do -- the antis are apparently stacking this poll heavily., -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Violations of Federal and State Laws by the Alleged Perpetrators of the Crime at Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 23:27:06 PST On Apr 23, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Useful information. Kevin McGehee Fairbanks/North Pole, AK mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 6:58 PM Crime at Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado "From another list:" Do we really need any more "gun-control" laws? Violations of Federal and State Laws by the Alleged Perpetrators of the Crime at Columbine High School, Littleton, Colorado Details of the explosives and firearms used by the alleged perpetrators have not been confirmed by law enforcement authorities. The crime scene is still being examined and cleared. It is unknown how the alleged perpetrators came into possession of the explosives and firearms they used. The alleged perpetrators, obviously, committed multiple counts of murder and attempted murder, the most serious crimes of all. And they committed many violations of laws against destruction of property, such as in the school building and the cars in the parking lot outside. All told, the prison sentences possible for these multiple, serious violations amount to many hundreds of years. Additionally, in the course of planning and committing these crimes, the alleged perpetrators committed numerous violations of very serious federal and stale laws relating to explosives and firearms, and, depending on details not yet known, may have committed other such violations. Cumulatively, the prison sentences possible for these violations alone amount to many hundreds of years. A partial list of those violations follows: 1. Possession of a "destructive device" (i.e., bomb). (Multiple counts.) Prohibited under 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53. Each violation is punishable by 10 years ill prison and a $10,000 fine. Other explosives violations are under 18 U.S.C. 842. Colorado law [18-12-109(2)] prohibits the possession of an "explosive or incendiary device." Each violation is a Class 4 felony Colorado I1 s-12.109(6)] also prohibits possession of "explosive or incendiary pans," defined to include, individually, a substantial variety of components used to make explosive or incendiary devices, Each violation is a Class 4 felony. 2. Manufacturing a "destructive device" (i,e., bomb). (Multiple counts.) Prohibited under 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, Each violation is punishable by 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. 3. Use of an explosive or incendiary device in the commission of a felony, Prohibited under Colorado law [18-12.109(4)]. A class 2 felony. 4. Setting a device designed to cause an explosion upon being triggered. Violation of Colorado law. (Citation uncertain) 5. Use of a firearm or "destructive device" (i.e., bomb) to commit a murder that is prosecutable in a federal court. Enhanced penalty under 18 U.S.C. 924 (0. Punishable by death or up to life in prison. A federal nexus is through 18 U.S.C. 922(q), prohibiting the discharge of a firearm, on school property, with reckless disregard for the safety of another person. 6. Possession of a firearm or "destructive device" (i.e., bomb) in furtherance of a crime of violence that is prosecutable in a federal court. Enhanced penalty under 18 U.S.C. 924(c). Penalty is 10 years if a firearm; 30 years if a "destructive device" (bomb, etc.). Convictions subsequent to the first receive 20 years or, if the weapon is a bomb, life imprisonment. Again, a federal nexus is through 18 U.S.C. 922(q), prohibiting the discharge of a firearm, on school property, with reckless disregard for the safety of another person. 7. Brandishing a firearm or "destructive device" (i.e., bomb) in furtherance of a crime of violence that may be prosecuted in a federal court. Enhanced penalty under 18 U.S.C. 924(c). Penalty is 15 years if a firearm; 30 years if a "destructive device" (bomb, etc.). Convictions subsequent to the first receive 25 years or, if the weapon is a bomb, life imprisonment. Again, a federal nexus is through 18 U.S.C., 922(q), prohibiting the discharge of a firearm, on school property, with reckless disregard for tile safety of another person. 8. Discharging a firearm or "destructive device" (i.e., bomb) in furtherance of a crime of violence that may be prosecuted in a federal court. Enhanced penalty under 18 U.S.C. 924(c). Penalty is 20 years if a firearm; 30 years if a "destructive device" (bomb, etc.). Convictions subsequent to the first receive 30 years or, if the weapon is a bomb, life imprisonment, Again, a federal nexus is through 18 U.S.C. 922(q), prohibiting the discharge of a firearm, on school property, with reckless disregard for the safety of another person. 9. Conspiracy to commit a crime of violence prosecutable in federal court. Enhanced penalty under 18 U.S.C. 924(n). Penalty is 20 years if the weapon is a firearm, life imprisonment if the weapon is a bomb. Again, a federal nexus is through 18 U.S.C. 922(q), prohibiting the discharge of a firearm, on school property, with reckless disregard for the safety of another person. 10. Possession of a short-barreled shotgun or rifle. Some news accounts have suggested that the alleged perpetrators may have possessed a "sawed off shotgun or "sawed-off" rifle. (A shotgun or rifle less than 26" in overall length, or a shotgun with a barrel of less than 18", or a rifle with a barrel of less than 16".) A spokesman for the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office reported, possibly, at least one long gun with the stock cut off. Prohibited under 26 U.SC. Chapter 53, A violation is punishable by 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. Colorado law [18-12-102(3)] prohibits possession of a "dangerous weapon" (defined to include sawed-off guns), First violation is a Class 5 felony; subsequent violations are Class 4 felonies. 11. Manufacturing a "sawed-off" shotgun or "sawed-off rifle." Prohibited under 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53, Each violation is punishable by 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. 12. Possession of a handgun or handgun ammunition by a person under age 18. Some news accounts report one alleged perpetrator as being 17 years of age. It is yet unclear what firearms were involved in the crime. A person under age 18 is prohibited from possessing a handgun or handgun ammunition, except for legitimate target shooting, hunting, and firearms training activities, and similar legitimate reasons. [I 8 U.S.C., 922(x), part of the 1994 crime bill,] A violation is punishable by one year in prison, 13. Providing a handgun or handgun ammunition to a person under age 18. Prohibited under the same provision noted in #4, above, Penalty of one year, unless the provider knew the gun would be used in a crime of violence, in which case the penalty is l0 years, 14. Age restrictions on purchasing firearms. Again, the age of the second suspect and how the alleged perpetrators came into possession of firearms are unclear. However, licensed dealers may sell rifles and shotguns only to persons age 18 or over, and handguns to persons age 21 or over, [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1)] 15. Possession of a firearm on school property. Prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 927(q) Five year penalty. Colorado also prohibits a gun on school property. (Citation uncertain.) 16. Discharge of a firearm on school property, with a reckless disregard for another's safety. Prohibited less than 18 U.S.C. 922q. Five year penalty. 17. Possession, interstate transportation, sale, etc., of a stolen firearm. Prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(i) and (j). A violation is punishable by l0 years. 18. Intentionally aiming a firearm at another person. Violation of Colorado law, 19. Displaying a firearm in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm, or discharging a firearm in a public place except on a lawful target practice or hunting place. Violation of Colorado law, [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: web firearms poll (fwd) Date: 23 Apr 1999 23:27:42 PST On Apr 23, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >** Our Latest Poll Description ** > >After the horrible tragedy in Littleton, Colorado, people in the U.S. and >abroad have been re-examining gun crimes and the laws designed to prevent >them (especially in our schools). This week's Web Poll focuses on this very >issue and we want your thoughts and feedback. Please take a moment now to >vote on this important topic. > >To share in the discussion and cast your votes, please point and click to: >http://www.dreamscape.com/throb/index.html > >We can't wait to see you there! Please do -- the antis are apparently stacking this poll heavily., -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Murrah Building look-a-like (fwd) Date: 24 Apr 1999 16:18:41 PST On Apr 24, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM PHOENIX, ARIZONA The Special "Kosovo Crisis" Truth in Media Global Watch Bulletins, such as the one enclosed below, can also be accessed at our Web site: www.truthinmedia.org which is being updated throughout the day. DAY 32, Update 1 ----------------------- Apr. 24, 1999; 1:30AM EDT HEADLINES Belgrade 1. NATO Is Now Killing People Because It Doesn't Like What They Say (By Robert Fisk) ---------------------- 1. NATO Is Now Killing People Because It Doesn't Like What They Say (By Robert Fisk, The Independent - For Personal Use Only) BELGRADE, Apr. 24 - The veteran war correspondent of The Independent, Robert Fisk, was this London's daily's "Johnny on the spot" in Belgrade, before and after NATO bombed the Serb TV building, killing at least 10 people and injuring scores of others. Much of what Fisk wrote in his Apr. 24 dispatch matches up exactly with the eyewitness story we brought to you yesterday, in the Day 31, Update 1, Item 1, Apr. 23 story: "Once you kill people because you don't like what they say, you change the rules of war' Hanging upside-down from the wreckage was a dead man, in his fifties perhaps, although a benevolent grey dust had covered his face. Not far away, also upside-down - his legs trapped between tons of concrete and steel - was a younger man in a pullover, face grey, blood dribbling from his head on to the rubble beneath. ROBERT FISK IN BELGRADE Deep inside the tangle of cement and plastic and iron, in what had once been the make-up room next to the broadcasting studio of Serb Television, was all that was left of a young woman, burnt alive when Nato's missile exploded in the radio control room. Within six hours, the Secretary of State for International Development, Clare Short, declared the place a "legitimate target". It wasn't an argument worth debating with the wounded - one of them a young technician who could only be extracted from the hundreds of tons of concrete in which he was encased by amputating both his legs. Nor with the silent hundreds who gathered in front of the still-smoking ruin at dawn yesterday, lost for words as they stood in the little glade of trees beside St Marko's Cathedral, where Belgrade's red and cream trams turn round. A Belgrade fireman pulled at one of the bodies for all of 30 seconds before he realised that the man, swinging back and forth amid the wreckage, was dead. By dusk last night, 10 crushed bodies - two of them women - had been tugged from beneath the concrete, another man had died in hospital and 15 other technicians and secretaries still lay buried. A fireman reported hearing a voice from the depths as the heavens opened, turning into mud the muck and dust of a building that Ms Short had declared to be a "propaganda machine". We had all wondered how long it would be before NATO decided that Radio Televizija Srbija should join the list of "military" targets. Spokesmen had long objected to its crude propaganda - it included a NATO symbol turning into a swastika and a montage of Madeleine Albright growing Dracula teeth in front of a burning building. It never reported on the tens of thousands of Albanian refugees who spoke of executions and "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo. It endlessly repeated films that depicted Yugoslav soldiers as idealised heroes defending their country. It carried soporific tapes of President Slobodan Milosevic meeting patriarchs, Cossacks, Russian envoys and the Kosovo Albanian leader Ibrahim Rugova. The channel was showing an American interview with Mr Milosevic when the first cruise missile smashed into the station's control room just after two o'clock yesterday morning. But did this justify killing the night staff in their studios and taping rooms? Two weeks NATO's spokesmen had been suggesting that RTS would have to carry six hours of Western television a day if it was to survive - CNN's bland, safe coverage of events presumably offering some balance to the rubbish churned out on the RTS news. But once NATO decided this was as preposterous as it was impracticable, its spokesman announced that the station was not on the list of NATO targets. Then, on Monday, CNN's bosses called up from Atlanta to inform the satellite boys in Belgrade that they should pull out of the RTS offices. Against the wishes of other NATO nations, so the word went, General Wesley Clark had decided to bomb Serb television. CNN withdrew from the building in Takovska Street. And that night, we were all invited to have coffee and orange juice in the studios. The building was likely to be a target of the "NATO aggressor", according to Goran Matic, a Yugoslav federal minister, as he walked us through the ground floor of the doomed building. Yet, oddly, we did not take him seriously. Even when the air-raid siren sounded, I stayed for another coffee. Surely NATO wouldn't waste its bombs on this tiresome station with its third-rate propaganda and old movies, let alone kill its staff. Yesterday morning, the moment I heard the cruise missile scream over my hotel roof, I knew I was wrong. There was a thunderous explosion and a mile-high cloud of dust as four stories collapsed to the ground, sandwiching offices, machines, transmitters and people into a pile of rubble only 15 feet high. Yet, within six hours, Serb television was back on the air, beaming its programmes from secret transmitters, the female anchorwoman reading the news from pieces of pink paper between pre-recorded films of Serbian folk-songs and ancient Orthodox churches. All along, the Serbs had been ready for just such an attack. We had not believed NATO capable of such ferocity. The Serbs had. The crowds still stood in the park as darkness fell, watching the men with drills punching their way through the concrete for more survivors. By that time, explanations were flowing from NATO's birthday celebrations in Washington. Serbia's "propaganda machine" had been prolonging the war. I wonder. I seem to recall Croatian television spreading hatred a-plenty when it was ethnically cleansing 170,000 Serbs from Croatia in 1995. But we didn't bomb Zagreb. And when President Franjo Tudjman's lads were massacring Serbs and Muslims alike in Bosnia, we didn't bomb his residence. Was Serbian television's real sin its broadcast of film of the NATO massacre of Kosovo Albanian refugees last week, killings that NATO was forced to admit had been a mistake? Yes, Serbian television could be hateful, biased, bad. It was owned by the government. But once you kill people because you don't like what they say, you have changed the rules of war. And that's what NATO did in Belgrade in the early hours of yesterday morning. For photos that went along with this story, check out: http://www.independent.co.uk/ -------------- NOTE: To cancel the e-mail editions of our reports, just reply REMOVE or UNSUBSCRIBE, followed by your e-mail address. ---- Bob Djurdjevic TRUTH IN MEDIA Phoenix, Arizona e-mail: bobdj@djurdjevic.com Visit the Truth in Media Web site http://www.truthinmedia.org/ for more articles on geopolitical affairs. Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 _________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 =================================================================== uwsa@uwsa.com is an unmoderated mail list to discuss general government topics. To join or leave this list send mail to majordomo@uwsa.com TO: majordomo@uwsa.com (un)subscribe uwsa Visit our world wide web site at http://www.uwsa.com Support UWSA.COM at http://www.uwsa.com/UWSAintro.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Ceasefire calls for anti-NRA demonstration (fwd) Date: 26 Apr 1999 19:03:14 PST Keep your air sickness bag handy..... On Apr 26, Mikey wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Washington Ceasefire Action Alert 4/26/99 For Immediate Release: April 23, 1999 Submitted By: Washington Ceasefire Bruce Gryniewski Seattle, Washington Phone: (206) 322-7564 Seattle--Washington Ceasefire has called on its members and other like minded individuals from around the country to converge on Denver to protest against the NRA during their shortened 1 day convention in Denver on Saturday, May 1st. We will silently protest against them and their agenda that puts honest, hardworking innocent Americans at risk every day by promoting the widespread use and misuse of firearms. The NRA has been the single most prominent organization that has fought legislation and enforcement of gun laws that would make our community a safer place. They share a large amount of the responsibility for the Littleton Massacre. The protest will be in front of the Convention center that is at 700 14th St (at 14th and California) in Downtown Denver. It is 4 blocks from the Adams Mark Hotel at which the NRA membership will be staying during their visit to the city. The NRA member meeting begins at 10 AM. The silent protest will last from 9 AM to 11 AM in front of the convention center. The Adams Mark Hotel is located at 1550 Court Place Denver CO 80202. (Emphasis added) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Ninety Day Moratorium on Federal Firearms Legislation (fwd) Date: 26 Apr 1999 19:04:21 PST On Apr 26, Jeff Miller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] RKBA Defender: Please forgive the unsolicited e-mail. If you are reading this message, it is because I pulled your address from a variety of Internet resources, and I believe you will support what I am trying to do. I am advocating a Ninety Day Moratorium on Federal Firearms Legislation that is being proposed in the aftermath of the Littleton shooting. I am asking people to write to their representatives in Congress advocating this position. You can find more information at: http://www.MillerPages.com/NinetyDayMoratorium.html Please pass this information along to anyone you believe may be interested, and thank you for your time. Jeff Miller http://www.millerpages.com === _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Another poll (fwd) Date: 26 Apr 1999 19:06:23 PST On Apr 26, Paul A. Miller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] There's another online poll at www.usatoday.com/news/comment/debate.htm It asks "Do you favor new gun control initiatives," and I was excited about the results: Yes 8.3% No 91.6% but then I saw that only 12 had voted.... Paul [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RAPTUS: Fwd: Perilous Times items (4/26/99) (fwd) Date: 26 Apr 1999 19:07:57 PST On Apr 26, Sarahanna Richards wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hello All, This is a bit much if ya ask me. IS there no privacy for anyone?? IN HIS GRIP, SArahanna ***************************************************** > Know Your Passenger: FAA Introduces New Screening Rules > >The Federal Aviation Administration proposed new rules on April 20 for >increasing airline security by requiring that all airlines conduct >computerized profiling of all passengers on domestic flights. The new >program, called Computer Assisted Passenger Screening (CAPS), would >use data from airline computers and secret profiling standards to >select passengers for additional questioning and searches. > >Under the new rules, airlines would select passengers for increased >scrutiny based on internal profiling standards. They would also >randomly select some passengers for the "deterrent value that would >increase airline passenger safety." The FAA funded the program, >paying the carriers over $10 million to develop CAPS. The new rules' >details on who would be targeted by the automated systems are not >revealed for security reasons. However, the Department of Justice has >determined that the rules raise no civil liberties concerns. > >The rules are based on the recommendations of the White House >Commissioner on Aviation Safety and Security, led by Vice President Al >Gore. The Gore Commission issued its report in 1997 and was >criticized by a coalition of groups for its intrusive proposals. The >proposed rules recognize that there have been few actual incidents of >the sort that CAPS seeks to address (the only one reported was in >1979), but links unrelated occurrences such as the World Trade Center >bombing and the accidental crash of TWA Flight 800 as justification >for the stringent new procedures. The FAA estimates that it will cost >between $50 million and $70 million to implement the program, which >will be paid by the airlines and presumably passed onto passengers. > >Comments are due on the proposal by June 18, 1999. They can be >e-mailed to 9-NPRM-CMTS@faa.gov. More information on the proposed >rules, airline security and privacy issues is available at: >http://www.epic.org/privacy/faa/ (EPIC ALERT 4-99) > > > "Orwell Awards" Presented to Biggest U.S. Privacy Invaders > >Privacy International presented its first Orwell Awards on April 7 >to the worst corporate and government privacy invaders in the United >States. Privacy International's Director, Simon Davies, said the >awards were designed to raise awareness of the erosion of privacy >rights in the U.S. "Surveillance over our private lives has reached a >dangerous new level. It's time to turn the spotlight around and shine >it on the invaders." The awards were presented at the Computers, >Freedom and Privacy (CFP99) conference in Washington, DC. > >A total of five awards were announced, but most recipients were not on >hand to receive them. The winner in the "Worst Public Official" >category was Rep. Bill McCollum (R-FL) for his numerous activities in >Congress opposing privacy, including pushing through a law increasing >wiretapping approved last year, several bills promoting the creation >of a national ID card, opposition to efforts to improve financial >privacy, and his recent efforts to amend the SAFE encryption bill to >mandate key escrow. Runners-up were New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani >(for his suggestion to take DNA samples of all children at birth) and >Ambassador David Aaron and White House Advisor Ira Magaziner (for >their travels around the world promoting encryption restrictions and >opposing privacy laws). > >The Federal Depository Insurance Corporation received the award for >"Most Invasive Proposal" for its "Know Your Customer" proposal (see >EPIC Alert 6.05). The runners-up were the Communications Assistance >for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) and the FAA's Airline ID Program. The >"Greatest Corporate Invader" award went to Elensys Inc., a Woburn, >Massachusetts company that has secretly collected the pharmacy records >of millions of consumers from 15,000 pharmacies nationwide. The >runners-up were Intel for the Pentium III Processor Serial Number >(designed to identify and track users) and ImageData for its attempts >to create a national database of drivers license photographs. > >The "Lifetime Menace" award went to the Federal Bureau of >Investigation for its activities over the past 80 years, including >CALEA, COINTELPRO, and its efforts on information warfare. Runners-up >were the Direct Marketing Association, the National Security Agency, >and credit bureau TransUnion Corp. Finally, Microsoft Corp. received >the "People's Choice" award for the Global User ID Number, Open >Profiling System, and the proposed P3P standard. The other candidates >were Intel, President Clinton and Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr. > >Two "Brandeis" Awards were presented to individuals who have made an >outstanding contribution to the protection of privacy, as well as to >victims of privacy invasion who have successfully fought back. Phil >Zimmermann, author of the encryption program Pretty Good Privacy, and >Diana Mey, a West Virginia housewife who successfully took on Sears >telemarketers, were the recipients this year. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: McGehee's News & Comment - April 26, 1999 (fwd) Date: 26 Apr 1999 22:40:53 PST On Apr 26, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT (c) 1999 KEVIN McGEHEE North Pole, Alaska mcgehee@mosquitonet.com http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ THE MONSTERS ARE NOT THE VICTIMS, OKAY? (Now that a decent interval has passed since the Littleton atrocity...) Some, predictably enough, are blaming guns. Others are blaming Marilyn Manson, or the shooters' parents. But from the looks of things the growing consensus appears to be that the Societal Evil that inspired the two junior lunatics to turn Columbine High School into a slaughterhouse was (drum roll, please)... HIGH SCHOOL CLIQUES. Well, heck, if I had known that being on the outs with all the cool high school cliques could excuse mass murder, God only knows what I could have gotten away with. If only I had been in high school twenty years later than I was, that is. In fact, everyone who was "dissed" by the jocks/cheerleaders/chess team/whatever in high school, please raise your hands. Quite a turnout. How many of you have ever committed a mass murder? Anyone? Okay, let's get serious. The lessons to be drawn from what happened in Littleton are many and varied. For those who regard misfits -- themselves or others -- as victims, the lesson would be that children need to be taught not to "dis" one another. Those of us in the real world -- misfits or not -- see it a little differently. A song by The Eagles comes to mind, name of "Get Over It." I doubt anyone gets through adolescence without having his or her feelings wadded up like a used Kleenex and stomped flat at least a hundred times. One could argue, and I would do so happily, that this is what adolescence is FOR. All during childhood each of us was the center of the universe -- to our parents if we're lucky, to ourselves even if we're unlucky -- and it is this delusion that must be shed before we can rightfully assume the title of "mature adult." Nature is clever, but not very gentle: that period of years during which our bodies become physically mature is also the perfect time during which that childhood delusion gets, well, wadded up like a used Kleenex and stomped flat -- until we finally stop picking it up and smoothing it out like a security blanket, whereupon we graduate to adulthood. This, like the existence of cliques, has been true since the beginning of time, yet only lately have we seen misfit kids take bloody revenge for the routine battering of their childish self-regard. Perhaps this is because our popular culture has in so many ways taken an attitude of disdain for maturity -- for doing the grown-up thing and having a grown-up outlook on life. Everyone is encouraged to find a way to be the victim, everyone is encouraged to look upon *their* wants and *their* feelings as paramount. Although it's still rare, thank God, for people to "take out" those who irritate them, there is a profound undercurrent of dehumanization in America today. The human fetus is a blob of tissue; people of different ethnic backgrounds are not individuals but representatives of their race, as faceless as if they were wearing hoods; even one's life partner and children are subject to being discarded if they merely become inconvenient. Back when true maturity was held in high regard, our society still had its troubles, yes. In every generation there have been those who never grew up enough to get over the shock of discovering that the universe doesn't revolve around them, who spend their lives trying to reset the world on that illusory spindle so that the comfortable delusions of childhood can be preserved. The whiners, the professional victims. Those people, in those generations, were the exception. I don't really believe they have yet become the rule, but the culture certainly seems bent on making it that way. And I do mean *bent*. In their own minds, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were the victims. Let's not join them in their delusion. -30- April 26, 1999 ================================================================ **Visit the McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT archives** http://www.mosquitonet.com/~mcgehee/news&comment/ The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: EIA Communique - 4/26 (fwd) Date: 26 Apr 1999 22:41:38 PST On Apr 26, Kevin McGehee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 11:58 AM The Education Intelligence Agency COMMUNIQU=C9 - April 26, 1999 Now on the Web at http://members.aol.com/educintel/eia + How committed to democratic practices are the teachers' unions? Critic= s, including EIA, are never slow to emphasize those instances when union democracy falls short of union rhetoric about democracy. In North Carolin= a, NEA's state affiliate silenced those critics. The North Carolina Associat= ion of Educators (NCAE) is so committed to democracy, it repealed the laws of mathematics through a majority vote. For the past few months, the biggest internal issue for NCAE has been whether to grant full membership rights to ESPs (education support person= nel -- custodians, bus drivers, teachers' aides, et al.). Most NEA state affiliates already do this, the notable exceptions being California, Connecticut and Hawaii. NCAE's elected leaders were forceful in their advocacy of the ESP inclusion amendment. NCAE President Joyce Elliott (wh= o, interestingly enough, is running for vice president, while her vice president, Geraldine McNeill, runs unopposed for president) called it "th= e right thing to do." NCAE publications listed the locals and districts tha= t supported the amendment and admitted to "intensive lobbying by NCAE leade= rs." As with all constitutional amendments, the ESP inclusion measure required a two-thirds majority of the NCAE Representative Assembly to pas= s. The day of the vote, banners, fliers and buttons reading "ESP Yes!" were = seen everywhere. NEA national headquarters provided financial assistance to th= e amendment supporters. A long debate was held, and then 1,304 delegates vo= ted. The final result was 869 in favor and 435 against. The measure was pronounced "passed." Opponents of the measure (evidently led by math teachers) challenged the result, pointing out that the measure fell one vote short of a two-th= irds majority, and had in fact received only 66.6411 percent of the vote. The challenge, however, required a majority vote of delegates, which it did n= ot receive (naturally). The definition of "two-thirds" thus succumbed to the will of the majority and ESPs are now full voting members of NCAE -- able= to participate in the upcoming election of NCAE officers. + More fun with democracy is on display in Rhode Island. Last month, EIA reported on a decision by the U.S. First Circuit Court of Appeals upholdi= ng the eviction of 24 top teacher union officials from the state's public employees' pension plan. These officials claimed the time spent on union = work as public employee time. Since pension payments are based on salary, the state found itself asked to dole out huge amounts of money. For example, current AFT Vice President Edward McElroy (a former Rhode Island union president) contributed $34,400 to the pension fund and would have receive= d a benefit of $550,000 -- in addition to his union pension. The circuit court ruled that the union officials were never public employees for pension purposes and ruled their eviction legal. But it isn= 't over yet. NEA Rhode Island had already called in the big guns for this ca= se -- namely NEA General Counsel Robert Chanin. Last week, NEARI's executive board voted to spend union funds on an appeal. Some local officials balke= d at the vote, since it was held without first placing it on the board's agend= a, without copies of the court's decision, and without copies of counsels' opinions. This week, former NEARI President Ronald L. DiOrio and former N= EARI Executive Director Donald Hill will be tried on conspiracy and pension fr= aud charges. Both men stand accused of misrepresenting DiOrio's employment st= atus in order to gain him a state pension. + I posted the following editorial on the EIA website last Friday under = the headline "Who's Really to Blame for the Columbine High School Massacre?" = For those of you who may have missed it, here it is: For the last few days, Americans have been subjected to gut-wrenching images of bloody carnage. Their natural reaction has been to ask why such barbarism occurred -- particularly on a school campus. And there has been= no shortage of commentators with theories. They're all wrong. First and foremost, neither the school, the teachers, the principal, the school board, nor the district were responsible for what happened. No= r was it the Internet, video games, Gothism, violent movies, teasing, homophobia, racism, the NRA, Adolf Hitler or trenchcoats. It wasn't a lac= k of safety precautions and it wasn't a shortage of school counselors. It coul= d have happened in a supermarket or a church instead of a school. Who is responsible for the massacre? Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold and whoever else helped them. That's all. These adolescents were evil, mentally deranged or both. Some have asked why no one "reached out" to Harris and Klebold. You don't "reach ou= t" to Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer. If you're lucky, they make a mistak= e and you get the handcuffs on them before they kill. This time, we weren't lucky. Many young people use the Internet -- including the victims. They see violent movies and play video games. They feel alienated and depressed ma= ny times in their young lives. It's a very long step from that to building propane pipe bombs in the basement of your suburban home and shooting you= r schoolmates in the face. Let's not make Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold the symbols of a generation. Let's remember the 12 students and 1 teacher who had earned t= he respect and love of their peers, and who will have no more opportunities = to pass that respect and love on to others. + In one of its few public disclosures since the election debacle of Apr= il 6, the Milwaukee Teachers Education Association admitted that "[m]ore mem= bers participated in this election -- and in more direct activities -- than ev= er before." The result? Low turnout and five losses in five races. What's mo= re, the Wisconsin Education Association Council commissioned a poll and discovered that a majority of residents had no positive comments about th= e state's public schools. WEAC President Terry Craney called the informatio= n "sobering." But he has a brilliant solution: a PR campaign to convince th= ese citizens they're wrong! Of course, such a monumental task isn't cost-free= , so Craney proposed an as-yet-unspecified dues increase to find just the righ= t public relations firm to pull it off. Who says outsourcing is all bad? + People for the American Way released a report revealing the vast (yawn= ) conspiracy being perpetrated by the Children's Scholarship Fund. The fund made national headlines last week when it announced the names of 40,000 private scholarship winners out of the 1.25 million applications it recei= ved. This report lacks the normally obligatory "flow chart" of interconnection= s between these evil geniuses (if John Walton charged residuals for the use= of his bio by left-wing groups, he wouldn't need Wal-Mart). That's too bad. = I was very much looking forward to finding out where Charles Rangel, Colin Powell, Erskine Bowles, Tom Daschle, Andrew Young, Michael Ovitz, Will Sm= ith and Oprah Winfrey fit in this plot. Of course, CSF's Board of Advisors do= es contain the one absolutely necessary ingredient for any dark conspiracy: Henry Kissinger. + The Deseret News (Utah) joined the growing list of newspapers that published a story on EIA's report, Measure for Measure: A Magnified Look = at Standardized Test Scores. Still available through the mail, free, from EI= A. + Quote of the Week: "The NEA needs to get out of the way. We can't allo= w the union's sacred cows to block the path of members who want to pursue t= heir own vision of school quality, and school renewal and reform." -- NEA President Bob Chase in the April 20 Christian Science Monitor. # # # The Education Intelligence Agency conducts public education research, analysis and investigations. Director: Mike Antonucci. Ph: 916-422-4373. = Fax: 916-392-1482. E-Mail: EducIntel@aol.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Another poll (fwd) Date: 27 Apr 1999 09:36:00 -0700 Yet another gun poll, at MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "Compared to the Clintons, Reagan is living proof than a Republican with half a brain is better than a Democrat with two." P.J. O'Rourke Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Another poll (fwd) Date: 27 Apr 1999 10:20:14 -0700 And another... http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/guncontrol990427.html Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press." "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson", pp.46 - 47, Presented by John Dewey Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Re: Another poll (fwd) Date: 27 Apr 1999 10:39:38 -0700 At 09:36 AM 4/27/1999 -0700, I wrote: >Yet another gun poll, at MSNBC: > >http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp My apologies; apparently this poll is visible only to Internet Explorer users; Netscape people need not apply. Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ "The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, ... or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press." "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson", pp.46 - 47, Presented by John Dewey Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Another poll (fwd) Date: 27 Apr 1999 10:48:24 +0100 You may wish to click on the "write us" link at the bottom of that page and send a message something like: --------------------- Why is the poll at http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp#BODY not visible to users of netscape navigator 4.5? Boyd Kneeland --------------------- In your own words of course. I chose to send that to the opinions editor link on the "write us" page (wich may be incorrect, I'm not sure). Hope you'll let them know what you think of this. Boyd Kneeland Kenneth Mitchell wrote: > > At 09:36 AM 4/27/1999 -0700, I wrote: > >Yet another gun poll, at MSNBC: > > > >http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp > > My apologies; apparently this poll is visible only to Internet Explorer > users; Netscape people need not apply. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) > --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ > "The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is > inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in > all cases to which they think themselves competent, ... or they > may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is > their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled > to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, > and freedom of the press." "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson", > pp.46 - 47, Presented by John Dewey > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the > Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Another poll (fwd) Date: 27 Apr 1999 11:16:57 +0100 the URL to use for comments about their non interoperable design is: http://www.msnbc.com/modules/feedback/techsup.asp?http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp#BODY If this URL is wrapped in email paste it into a text tool like notepad and make it one line before pasting it into your browser. Boyd boyd@seanet.com wrote: > > You may wish to click on the "write us" link at the bottom of that page > and send a message something like: > --------------------- > Why is the poll at > http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp#BODY > not visible to users of netscape navigator 4.5? > Boyd Kneeland > --------------------- > In your own words of course. I chose to send that to the opinions editor > link on the "write us" page (wich may be incorrect, I'm not sure). Hope > you'll let them know what you think of this. Boyd Kneeland > > Kenneth Mitchell wrote: > > > > At 09:36 AM 4/27/1999 -0700, I wrote: > > >Yet another gun poll, at MSNBC: > > > > > >http://www.msnbc.com/news/262926.asp > > > > My apologies; apparently this poll is visible only to Internet Explorer > > users; Netscape people need not apply. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > > 916-955-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) > > --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/------------------------ > > "The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is > > inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in > > all cases to which they think themselves competent, ... or they > > may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is > > their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled > > to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, > > and freedom of the press." "The Living Thoughts of Thomas Jefferson", > > pp.46 - 47, Presented by John Dewey > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Buy This Stamp! http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/99/ayn_rand.htm > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Worried about the "Good Times" or "AOL4FREE" viruses? Check out the > > Urban Legends page at http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/ for the facts! > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Guns in schools? (fwd) Date: 27 Apr 1999 13:06:17 PST On Apr 27, hes@unity.ncsu.edu wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Someone sent me this - it is an AP article, but I wonder whether you'll see it in your local paper which as access to AP material? Note that this is copyrighted - so don't "publish" it. --henry schaffer >Words of praise may be directed to Dwight Creech, Principal, >Calvary Christian School, 400 S. Bennett Street, Southern Pines, >NC 28387 or phone 910-692-8311! This school welcomes guns in class Associated Press (NC) April 27, 1999 SOUTHERN PINES, N.C. (AP) While most schools ban guns on campuses, one private school in North Carolina welcomes them at least during its gun safety courses. Principal Dwight M. Creech, one of two National Rifle Association-certified instructors for the program, said gun safety is an important part of the curriculum for students from kindergarten through 12th grade at Calvary Christian School. Education is needed to counter the fantasy images of guns as portrayed in movies and on television, he said. The shootings in Littleton, Colo., will not affect the program, he said. "One of the most important reasons for us to continue our gun education program is that there is a gun education program going on almost every night in the home of almost every American family," Creech said. "They get hundreds of hours of fantasy and outrage with no opportunity to separate truth from error." "I think it's child abuse, to not afford children educational programs of this type," Creech said. The program teaches students in kindergarten through sixth grade that > if they see a gun, they should not touch it and should find an adult to deal with it. Students identify safe and unsafe ways to deal with guns and take part in role-playing exercises in which one child hypothetically finds a gun. Creech said he knows some critics disapprove of gun safety education in schools. "I would question their knowledge of guns, and I would also question their rationale," he says. "As you think about the other kinds of dangerous things people have to deal with in the course of growing up, such as driving an automobile, what's the difference? "One of the things I think causes the general public to be uneasy about guns is, they often associate guns with the criminal mind. Guns have nothing to do with the criminal mind." The booklets used in the kindergarten through 6th grade programs are published and provided by the NRA, which also provides support for the gun safety program for students in grades 7-12. The NRA has given the school $6,000 for the courses since 1996. However, Creech said the program was under way before the NRA got involved. "I think a lot of people are ignorant concerning the National Rifle Association and how much good work they have done over the years," Creech said. "The National Rifle Association is about as American as any institution that I know of." One week of the school year is devoted to gun safety, with each class spending a few minutes of each day discussing material in workbooks. With parental permission, older students can participate in a more intensive gun safety program that takes them to a shooting range, where they get hands-on experience with firearms. That part of the program emphasizes the proper handling and discharge of a gun. ---- AP-NY-04-27-99 0407EDT Copyright (c) 1999 The Associated Press [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kenneth Mitchell Subject: Yet Another poll - on Concealed Carry Date: 27 Apr 1999 21:36:10 -0700 Take the poll on concealed carry at http://www.cnn.com/ Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-995-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) --------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/home.htm---------------- "lighght" This is not a typo. This is a poem funded by the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) that cost taxpayers $1,500. "lighght" is not the title; it's the entire poem. Founding Member: "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Take heart, people (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 01:09:32 PST On Apr 27, Don Cline wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] More indications the trend may have reached foldback limiting: Two or three times now, reporters have asked what good more laws will do when the existing law did not prevent the massacre at Columbine High School. As I mentioned in a previous message, out of eight or ten letters to the Arizona Republic on the tragedy, only one expressed the belief that more gun control is the answer. Then, this evening, my wife watched the local and national news (I was still at work) and reported that _several_ _times_ during the segments on Clinton's new gun package, various talking heads asked questions that boiled down to "What's the point?" or "What good will that do?", referring to the fact that the existing laws didn't stop Harris and Klebold, and it is unlikely any additional laws are likely to stop anyone in the future. And then they reported a female crimewatch reporter in England gunned down, and said England has had something like 335 firearm homicides -- my wife was not sure of the exact number, but was surprised it was so many, and VERY surprised the talking heads were reporting it! Gun control may have spilled over the top, finally, and revealed itself to be a fool's pipedream. We can pray. -- Don Cline, WB6OCO frdmftr@mindspring.com www.mindspring.com/~frdmftr (Central Arizona) 146.52 simplex monitored 24 hours a day. CTCSS 94.8Hz at various times during the day; DTSS 413 at night. "Do you have the right of free speech?" "Yes." "Do you own a gun?" "No." "Shut up." GOD MADE MAN. SAM COLT MADE MAN EQUAL. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larry ball Subject: Clinton & The NRA Date: 28 Apr 1999 05:35:23 -0500 Clinton says that the NRA should not frightening its members and cave into reasonable gun controls. He, and NATO, said the same thing about the Serbian Press and Media. Clinton sent a cruise missle to destroy the Serbian Press, can we expect a cruise missle to similarly arrive at NRA Headquarters? Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Re: Yet Another poll - on Concealed Carry Date: 28 Apr 1999 07:54:36 -0400 Just voted, we're loosing big time on this one, 34% for our side, 52% for their side. Tom At 09:36 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >Take the poll on concealed carry at http://www.cnn.com/ >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net >916-995-9152 (vm) 916-729-0966 (fax) >--------------http://www.gvn.net/~creative/home.htm---------------- >"lighght" > >This is not a typo. This is a poem funded by the National Endowment >for the Arts (NEA) that cost taxpayers $1,500. "lighght" is not the >title; it's the entire poem. >------------------------------------------------------------------- >Founding Member: "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: abc.com poll... (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 11:33:08 PST On Apr 28, Michael Martino wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] America should declare war on Yugoslavia 11.8% Guns 24.3% Both 15.8% Neither 47.9% As of 0914 EDT Wednseday, April 28. like I said... -MikeM _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: March! (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 11:37:22 PST On Apr 28, Posthill, John B. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > MARCH ON WASHINGTON '99 > > SATURDAY, MAY 1, 1999, NOON - 5:00 PM, WASHINGTON, D.C. NW QUADRANT OF > THE ELLIPSE (SOUTH SIDE OF THE WHITE HOUSE) > > Speakers will include, > > The Honorable Bob Barr: Congressman 7th District Georgia > http://www.house.gov/barr/welcome.htm > > Bill Triplett: Co-Author of "Year of the Rat" > > http://www.capitolhillblue.com/audio/golden-triplett040799.htm > > Herb Titus, Constitutionalist > http://www.ustaxpayers.org/ > > Tom Akdins, Executive Editor: The Common Conservative > http://commonconservative.com > > Bob Djurdjevic's : Truth In Media > http://www.truthinmedia.org/ > > Cliff Kincaid: Founder, America's Survival; Writer, Accuracy in Media; > co-author, Michael New: Mercenary or Soldier? > http://www.aim.org/ > > Garland Favorito: Citizens for Honest Government, Georgia Volunteer > Chapter Coordinator > http://www.chg.org/ > > Maureen Hogan: Clinton Investigative Commission > http://www.impeachclinton.org/ > > Andrew Amirault Journalist/Activist, Organizer, > March on Washington '99 > http://www.march99.com > > Pat Cooksey Founder, True Blue Patriots > http://home.fuse.net/trueblue/ > > Supporting Organizations/Websites > > TRUE BLUE PATRIOTS > http://home.fuse.net/trueblue/ > True Blue is a nonpartisan effort to encourage people to speak up and > demand that elected officials stop increasing taxes, introduce spending > cuts now and focus on reducing government waste. > > VISION > True Blue is a nationwide voter education organization, begun and managed > by grassroots efforts. The educational organization encourages grassroots > involvement in local, state and federal government, working within the > process framework. Leadership and members promote and uphold the views of > responsibility and freedom described by the founding fathers in the > Constitution and Bill of Rights. Members give of their skills and talents, > voices and time to educate citizens in the day-to-day, practical > implementation of the phrase, "government of the people, by the people, > and for the people. > > Citizens For Honest Government > > http://www.chg.org/ > > Citizens for Honest Government was founded in January, 1994 as a > non-partisan, non-profit, grass roots organization to promote honest > government. Citizens uses video journalism as an alternate news medium to > inform Americans about government activities that historically are > concealed > from them. The videos produced by Citizens for Honest Government include > The Clinton Chronicles, The Death of VInce Foster, Mena Cover-up, 60 > Minutes Deception and Obstruction of Justice. > > Call 1-800-777-8127 for information on the event, travel, and how to help. > > Financial support is also greatly appreciated. > We need Americans to step forward with us--both prayerfully and > financially--today. > > To contribute, please send check or money order: > > MARCH ON WASHINGTON '99 > Box 31 > South Kent, CT 06785 > > Sign on that you will attend March 99 at our Website: > http://www.march99.com > > Additional Participating Websites: > www.home.fuse.net/trueblue - True Blue home page > www.worldwebtalk.com - Thursday evenings, 8-11 PM EST > www.impeachclinton.org > http://www.hannity.com/ > www.directsourceradio.com > www.commonconservative.com > > Contact: Pat Cooksey, 1-800-777-8127 > > > MARCH ON WASHINGTON '99 -- a nonpartisan demonstration demanding the > immediate resignation of President Bill Clinton -- is being held on > Saturday, May 1, 1999, from 12 noon to 5 pm at The Ellipse (closest to > south end of the White House). > > We, the SILENT MAJORITY, who have never been polled, who work to provide > for our families and take responsibility for our actions, believe it's > time to take a stand regarding the political issues which threaten to > utterly destroy our great nation. This protest is a call to > > * Preserve world peace by demanding a full and immediate withdrawal of > NATO forces from the Balkans. Bill Clinton has systematically used > military aggression as a diversionary tactic, and it must stop > immediately. > > * Preserve our national security by demanding that the Clinton > administration be held accountable for numerous illegal campaign > contributions received from communist China, and the numerous technology > transfers that occurred in spite of objections from many government > agencies. > * > * > * Restore the fundamental American principle of equal justice under > law for all citizens -- most urgently, the Clinton administration -- and > thereby preserve America as one nation under God. > * > * > * Boycott any media outlet, newspaper or publication not objectively > investigating and reporting the full range of scandals surrounding the > Clinton administration. America's major media organizations are protecting > the Clinton White House, and it must stop immediately. > > Because this is a grassroots effort, we ask that you help spread the news > of this rally nationwide by forwarding -- via e-mail, fax, phone, and > snail mail -- the address of this website to all those who might be > interested. > > If you plan to join us in Washington D.C. on May 1st, please vote your > attendance in our poll on the right side of this page. WE WILL NOT BE > SILENT! > > Note: Possible accomodations: > Howard Johnson's > Address: 1430 Rhode Island Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20005, US > Area Served: Arlington, Virginia, Baltimore, Maryland, Washington, > District of Columbia > Property Phone: 202 462-7777 > Howard Johnson Plazas, Hotels, Inns, and Express Inns Reservation Phone > Number:1-800-I-GO-HOJO (1-800-446-4656) > Fax: 202 332-3519 > Email: info@hojodc.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Send this one to "respectable" gun owners and hunters, too. (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 11:38:17 PST On Apr 28, RHill@MICKEY.GC.WHECN.EDU wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Here's another one that might jolt the deer-rifles-only crowd into reality. Roy Hill http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/042899clinton-guns.html By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE ASHINGTON -- President Clinton on Tuesday beseeched the hunters and sportsmen who make up much of the nation's gun culture to accept certain regulations and restrictions as a tradeoff to help curb the easy access to firearms and try to save lives. "I want to make a plea to everybody who is waiting for the next deer season in my home state to think about this in terms of what our reasonable obligations to the larger community of America are," Clinton said at a White House ceremony where he announced his gun-control package, which he sent to Capitol Hill on Tuesday, a week after the lethal rampage at a school in Littleton, Colo. The president, who said he took up target practice when he was 12 years old in Arkansas, presented himself as a product of the gun culture and said he understood the fear that many had that any restrictions were a first step toward taking away their firearms. He said the rest of society needed to persuade rural Americans that restrictions on guns were as reasonable as metal detectors at airports and that the inconvenience of restrictions would be worth it by saving lives. His proposed legislation includes a measure to restrict the purchase of handguns to one a month per person and to restore a waiting period before someone could buy a gun -- two proposals that have gone nowhere before. The package also includes raising the minimum age for buying a handgun from 18 to 21, banning possession of semi-automatic assault rifles by juveniles and requiring background checks on people who want to buy explosives and on people who buy guns at gun shows. And it would impose felony penalties on adults who knowingly or recklessly allow a child to have access to a gun that is used to commit a crime. The president would also ban the import of large-capacity ammunition clips. On Capitol Hill, Republican leaders showed little interest in Clinton's proposals. Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, the majority leader, dismissed gun control as "the typical knee-jerk reaction" to school shootings. "I don't think this is just about guns," he said, calling instead for "a national conference on youth and culture" to explore the broader societal causes of the killings. Rep. Tom DeLay of Texas, the House Republican whip who was threatened last year by a gunman in the Capitol, accused Clinton of trying to exploit a tragedy for political benefit. "Only one thought came to mind when watching the president unveil his proposal today: How dare you?" DeLay added: "I can only say to the president that your legislation, no matter how well it polls, will not solve the problems we face." But support for some provisions came from some unlikely quarters. Robert Ricker, executive director of the American Shooting Sports Council, which represents the firearms industry, said his group supported the idea of background checks on people who buy guns at gun shows, particularly because of early reports that some of the weapons used in Littleton were bought at such shows. "That will get a lot of consideration," he predicted. The National Rifle Association is declining comment on the package until it holds its convention later this week. The sports council and the rifle association parted ways recently when the council backed a call that manufacturers voluntarily put safety locks on firearms. Some of those who lined up with the president on Tuesday blamed the gun lobby outright for school shootings. Sen. John Chafee, R-R.I., said the term "school violence" glossed over the problem. "This isn't about schools," he said. "It's about guns. This is about the insanely easy access Americans, including American children, have to guns. This is about the distorted interpretation of the Constitution that convinces otherwise rational citizens that it's their inalienable right to be armed to the teeth." His language was sharper than that of either the president or Hillary Rodham Clinton, who, in opening the White House event, focused more broadly on cultural causes and tried to strike a reassuring note. "All of us here are searching for answers to what happened in Littleton," Mrs. Clinton said. "But that does not mean that we are either hopeless or helpless in the face of this tragedy." She pointed to the availability of guns but also said a media culture that "glorifies violence on TV, in the movies, on the Internet, in songs" and in video games could desensitize children so that they "lose their empathy for fellow human beings." The premise of Clinton's speech was that the Littleton shootings grew out of both the culture of violence and the gun culture, but he focused on the latter and told Americans to reach out to sportsmen and appeal to their common sense. "You change the culture," Clinton said, "we'll change the laws." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Yet Another Poll (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 11:39:07 PST On Apr 28, Bob Mueller wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/04/27/clinton.crime/ This one about Clinton's proposals: Do you think President Clinton's new weapons regulations will be made law? yes, because of the Columbine shooting only yes, because it is the right thing to do no, because the NRA is too powerful no, because Congress won't tackle a difficult issue before an election no, because it is the wrong thing to do Surprisingly, the last choice is winning - but a bigger margin can't hurt! Bob Mueller - Consultant Compuware Corporation The United States Trotting Association 614-224-2291 Ext. 3234 bmueller@ustrotting.com Get into Harness Racing at http://www.ustrotting.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Stop The War Now (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 13:37:40 PST On Apr 28, Bill Utterback wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I'm participating in an Internet campaign to stop the war in=20 Yugoslavia before ground troops are deployed, and I'd like to=20 invite you to join me. Please forward this message to any friends, family, co-workers,=20 neighbors, or other people you know personally who may be=20 interested.=20 Then go to http://www.StopTheWarNow.com and sign the petition. It=20 will be submitted directly to your representative in the U.S.=20 House and to both your U.S. Senators. Every day that this undeclared war continues, it becomes more=20 likely that ground troops will be deployed, and that we will find=20 ourselves in another Vietnam-style quagmire. As the war escalates,=20 it will become increasingly difficult for politicians to admit=20 that they made a mistake, end the war, and bring our troops home. The bombing of Yugoslavia is a textbook example of the folly of=20 foreign intervention: So far, the US-NATO air assault has=20 accomplished the exact opposite of what President Clinton=20 promised.=20 Our bombardment has prompted more attacks on innocent civilians,=20 worsened the plight of refugees, caused the conflict to spill over=20 to neighboring nations, and inflamed anti-American sentiments=20 around the world. Bombing errors have resulted in the deaths of=20 refugees -- the very people we are supposed to be protecting. We acknowledge the terrible human suffering of ethnic Albanians in=20 Kosovo -- suffering which has been exacerbated by our reckless=20 attack on Yugoslavia. However, that tragedy does not justify=20 American military intervention that puts our nation at risk. The job of the American military is to defend the United States=20 and to keep Americans safe. Instead, our air assault on Yugoslavia=20 has reduced our military preparedness, reignited Cold War tensions=20 with Russia, and made us a more tempting target for terrorists.=20 If the American people don't speak out, the war will continue to=20 escalate, ground troops will be eventually be deployed, and=20 American casualties will rise. If we don't want that to happen, we=20 must persuade our representatives in Congress to stop the war now. Please forward this e-mail to everyone you know who might be=20 interested in helping, but please don't send it indiscriminately=20 -- spam will only hurt our campaign. Then go to http://www.StopTheWarNow.com and sign the petition.=20 for Liberty, Bill Utterback [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Harris on drugs Date: 28 Apr 1999 16:09:18 PST Just in on ABC news: Harris, one of the Colorado Killers, attempted to join the Marines, but was rejected when it was discovered that he'd been on mood altering drugs, and had lied about it. I guess he's just another, "Ritalin Reject", or whatever..... Not to engender another debate between the Drug Worshippers and the Nasty Side Effects crowds, of course.....:-/ -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: it's time for locks and other restrictions (fwd) Date: 28 Apr 1999 16:10:15 PST On Apr 28, Mike Riddle wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] WASHINGTON -- An outraged Hillary Rodham Clinton called today for new legislation aimed at preventing the misuse of penises, especially by those who should not have them in the first place. "The entire nation has stood in anguish over the last year as we have seen, time after time, the lives wrecked by the failures of existing penis-control legislation," the haggard first lady, who seems to be morphing into Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, told a crowd assembled at the White House to honor the memory of the victims of her husband's sexual assault spree. "How many more tragedies will there need to be before we say, 'enough'?" Mrs. Clinton asked in decrying the easy access to penises by people who are not responsible adults. She called for several new penis-control initiatives, including equipping every penis with an erection lock or a new high-tech device that prevents its use by anyone other than its rightful owner. Other aspects of the package would reduce the availability of penises at penis shows, and more extensive background checks for those seeking access to penises. "Too many of our young people are having their lives ruined by the effects of someone who has gone crazy with a penis," she added. "We need to assure that when someone owns a penis, it is kept safely locked away, where young people are safe from it." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Yet Another poll! (fwd) Date: 29 Apr 1999 00:41:04 PST On Apr 29, Voyager One wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] http://nt.excite.com/poll/ -- Voyager One The Launch Pad BBS Brighton, Illinois ====================================== Visit us at: (618) 372-7546 or on WWW http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Circuit/6309/TheLaunchPad.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: New EO: Reservists' Call-Up (fwd) Date: 29 Apr 1999 01:08:00 PST On Apr 28, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > Source: US Newswire > http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0427-116.htm > > Executive Order on Reservists > U.S. Newswire > 27 Apr 14:30 > > Text of White House Executive Order on Reservists > To: National Desk > Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100 > > WASHINGTON, April 27 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released > today by the White House: > > EXECUTIVE ORDER > - - - - - - - > ORDERING THE SELECTED RESERVE AND CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL > READY RESERVE MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES TO ACTIVE DUTY > > By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and > the laws of the United States of America, including sections 121 and > 12304 of title 10, United States Code, I hereby determine that it is > necessary to augment the active armed forces of the United States for > the effective conduct of operations in and around the former > Yugoslavia related to the conflict in Kosovo. Further, under the > stated authority, I hereby authorize the Secretary of Defense, and > the Secretary of Transportation with respect to the Coast Guard when > it is not operating as a service in the Department of the Navy, under > their respective jurisdictions, to order to active duty any units, > and any individual members not assigned to a unit organized to serve > as a unit, of the Selected Reserve, or any member in the Individual > Ready Reserve mobilization category and designated as essential under > regulations prescribed by the Secretary concerned, and to terminate > the service of those units and members ordered to active duty. > > This order is intended only to improve the internal management of > the executive branch and is not intended to create any right or > benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party > against the United States, its agencies, its officers, or any person. > > WILLIAM J. CLINTON > > THE WHITE HOUSE, > April 27, 1999. > > -0- > /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/ > 04/27 14:30 > > Copyright 1999, U.S. Newswire [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Message from Daniel New (fwd) Date: 29 Apr 1999 01:07:12 PST On Apr 28, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > David, I'd be glad to rebroadcast anything you wish to carry to the public= . > Just let me know. > > Rich Martin > Editor of Slick Thanks, Rich. Here's an article just published in East Texas Today, but copyrighted by me, so we can reproduce it. I have offered to others, but=20 don't know if it's been picked up by other newspapers or periodicals. Test your New World Order I.Q. Daniel D. New Readers of the internationalist magazine, Foreign Affairs, read this stateme= nt by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., a few issues back: =93In the United States, neo-isolationism promises to prevent the most powerful nation on the planet from playing any role in enforcing the peace system. If we refuse a role, we cannot expect smaller, weaker, and poorer nations to ensure world order for us.=94 Okay, we all know that =93Isolationism is bad,=94 that America must carr= y the banner for solving all the world=92s problems. To do less is to be a selfis= h Isolationist. So here=92s an easy way to find out if you are part of the problem. Take this simple test to find your =93Internationalist Quotient.= =94 (And I=92ll do for you what my teachers never did for me: Give yourself 10 point= s as an Isolationist for every False and 10 points as an Internationalist for eve= ry True.) ___ I feel nothing deep inside when Old Glory passes in a parade. ___ I believe =93the American Way=94 is no better or worse than other countries. ___ If I (or my child) join the military, I would support their having to fight (and maybe die) in a war where no American interest is involved. ___ I think America really ought to become the policeman to the world. ___ It=92s fine with me if American soldiers are placed under the command of foreign officers who take an oath to serve the UN exclusively; ___ If it takes a draft to supply men and women to the UN military, I=92ll support it. ___ American Independence is really kind of an out-dated idea =96 nations should let the UN settle all disputes and put an end to all wars; ___ Every country ought to have a voice in the UN equal to America, even if they only have the population of New Hampshire and the economy of Arkansas; ___ If there=92s a conflict between a UN treaty and the US Constitution, then the UN treaty should prevail. ___ I think the =93Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag=94 should be replaced in our schools with a =93Pledge to the Planet.=94 Okay, now you know the score. You know if you=92re in tune with the pol= icy of the US government to reduce American sovereignty, and to implement a One World Government. If you answered five or more =93F=92s=94 on this test, no= w you know that you=92re the problem, as the government sees it, and until you (or=20 your children) are re-educated, we=92ll never have the New World Order promised u= s by George Bush, and worked for by Bill Clinton. If you=92re not willing for your children to be forced under the command = of foreign officers, and if you=92re not willing for them to die in a country y= ou never heard of, =93in the service of the United Nations,=94 as Al Gore put i= t,=20 then you just won=92t make in the =93Brave New World=94 of the next Millennium. In that Foreign Affairs article mentioned at the top, Schlesinger went o= n to say, =93We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for = it=20 in blood as well as in words and money.=94 Whose blood do you think he was talking about? __________________ Daniel D. New, fourth generation Texan, lives in Hamilton County, Texas, fro= m whence he lectures, writes and stays in touch with what the United Nations i= s doing. He just published his first book, MICHAEL NEW =96 Mercenary=85or Ame= rican Soldier? His son, Michael, was the first American soldier to ever be court-martialed for wanting to serve his country in its own uniform. The ca= se is still under appeal. For more information, contact the Michael New Action Fund, P.O. Box 100, Iredell, Texas 76649. Or visit their website at: MICHAEL NEW =AD Mercenary. . . or Ameri= can=20 Sold... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: Fw: Governor Bush's Betrayal (fwd) Date: 29 Apr 1999 10:22:48 PST On Apr 29, ASSETNJ@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -----Original Message----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- POST & CROSSPOST FAR & WIDE! GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE !!ALERT!! Chris W. Stark - Director 915 Yacht Ct., P.O. Box 1924 Crosby, Texas 77532-1924 Ph. (281) 787-4111 Fax (281) 328-7505 http://www.GOA-Texas.org email: Director@GOA-Texas.org 04/27/1999 -------- It has been reported around Texas and the Nation, that Governor George Bush has decided to embarrass Texans. The Houston Chronicle reported: AUSTIN - Gov. George W. Bush, in the wake of the Colorado school shooting last week, endorsed a controversial gun control proposal that had been killed only hours earlier by a Texas House committee. The panel chairman, who voted against the bill, said the governor had never told him he supported it. Bush's statement also surprised supporters of the measure, which would require instant criminal background checks of people buying firearms from unlicensed sellers at gun shows. The House Public Safety Committee rejected Danburg's gun show bill, House Bill 1199, late Tuesday night, the same evening that news of the school shooting in Littleton, Colo., which left 15 people dead, was rocking the country. Rep. Bob Turner, D-Coleman, chairman of the House Public Safety Committee, said the governor's post-Littleton comments were "a bit of a knee-jerk reaction probably." "To this moment, the governor has never talked to me about the bill," said Turner, who voted against the measure. ********* For more info on Rep. Danburg's anti-gun show bill, go to: http://www.goa-texas.org/pub-saf-1.htm We appreciate the entire Public Safety Committee, and especially Rep. Bob Turner for taking the heat, and standing for the 2nd amendment. It is interesting to note that there was NO communication that Governor Bush was in favor of Rep. Danburg's gun show bill. That is, until it was time to play politics, after the horrific tragedy in Colorado. This, after the Public Safety committee vote represented the peoples will in Texas by defeating Danburg's anti-gun show bill! This was a critical point, where Governor Bush could have made Texans proud that he is our Governor, and a POSSIBLE PRESIDENTIAL CONTENDER. And, we had really hoped that since he had signed our CHL law in 1995, that he would stand firm NOW. Now, we see the real Governor George Bush of Texas. NOW the question is: What will he do if he becomes President?? You know, Senator Bob Smith is looking better every day for the Republican Presidential nomination. Senator Smith stood firm against the NICS background checks, and tried to stop the FBI from keeping a list of the names of gun owners. And this was against all odds! Go to http://www.gunowners.org/altbrtb.htm for more info on this issue. ************* ACTION ITEMS ************* THIS IS WHEN WE FIND OUT IF GOVERNOR BUSH IS THE MAN WE NEED FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. EVEN IF YOUR NOT A TEXAN, THERE STANDS THE CHANCE THAT THIS MAN MAY BE YOUR NEXT PRESIDENT. PLEASE HELP US WITH THE ITEMS BELOW: Interestingly, Congressional leaders from both parties in D.C. are not enthusiastic about the Clinton anti-gun proposals. Even Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle said: "I'm not sure that gun legislation is what we need." Some reporters have tied that reluctance, and Clinton's reluctance to push for broader measures, to the switch from Democrat to Republican control of both houses in 1994, which Clinton publicly stated was due to Democrat votes for the "assault weapons ban." Governor Bush needs to know your immense dissatisfaction in his "knee-jerk reaction" regarding Rep. Danburg's HB 1199. Let him know the same voting power that brought about the defeat of the anti-gunners in Washington D.C. back when the assault weapons ban & Brady bill was passed, is alive and well in Texas, and we would much rather use our influence in his Presidential nomination. Let him know that his financial lead in his Presidential quest could easily dry up by alienating the pro-gun vote. Remember, it was Bill Clinton who declared why many of his own party were no longer with him, after the Republican sweep. He credited the Gun Lobby! Remember to temper your conversation with a bit of "diplomacy". Rude and hateful comments will only set us back. But he must renounce his support for Danburg's anti-gun show ban! Also, remind him of bills in Calendars Committee: HB 1020, HB 1021, HB 1035, HB 1165 HB 1776, HB 2240, HB 2323 just to name a few. Tell him to prove to us that he is on our side by using his influence on the Calendars committee to pass these pro-gun bills! You may also have him prove his worth by having him use his influence in pressing the Criminal Jurisprudence committee for hearing on HB 3398, Vermont carry for Texas! http://www.goa-texas.org/hupp-7.htm You can contact the Governor at: 800-252-9600 or 512-463-1782 THIS IS WHEN WE FIND OUT IF GOVERNOR BUSH IS THE MAN WE NEED FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. ***************************************************************** Copyright (c) 1999, Gun Owners Alliance (GOA-Texas). Republication permitted provided this article & attribution is left intact in its original state. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The views contained herein do not necessarily reflect the views of any other individual or organization, than Gun Owners Alliance. We DO NOT represent Gun Owners of America. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ***************************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: subscribe@GOA-Texas.org ..and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe". ***************************************************************** TO UN-SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: UN-subscribe@GOA-Texas.org .and in the body of the message, type the word "UN-subscribe". ***************************************************************** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 Comment: None genuine without this signature. iQEVAwUBNyaLd0McuoA7aq7dAQGz7Af6AgXb2DjhFo3QWo6X2LaWSB+r6Js2YIbc 27BUBmFVWOdpG8FTgUdNMgbmVI/fDW/jii/p+hiAsOeT+B+t5ciqpzkbGg7OUNGb gwoYl96dawc65hP9796PLhKC/zNDyE3/yhKYsO6Vz2KbRbh/+cDLUcmyPy3e2dek w8giiQjIfvOjQMvBhXegs8Vtfr/oHs3FLy9gyekFtHCr7vgqd6M/cVznCDYybmj9 +Dyc8jYbbcrpTfe0TL4gxnHS2OhYUuehPOXor+TLCsxu1/EVrtahttvbm20PR8AU Jr/IUI1KnSWLQOPePy0EPX5EP0PdQgxYTDAnsrzs3Z8G0Y4zPMdcUg== =UpN3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ****************************************************************************** Send submissions to nj-rkba@toto.com. Administrative requests (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc.) should be sent to nj-rkba-request@toto.com. The human maintainer is behanna@fast.net. For emergencies outside of working hours, reach him at behanna@fast.net. Chris BeHanna maintains this list and disclaims all formal and legal responsibility for its content. ****************************************************************************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: " JNH, IN08news" : THE GROWING Date: 29 Apr 1999 10:23:47 PST On Apr 28, David W Shuee wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Message-ID: <435A5CEEACA6D211BEEA0008C75DA885017FC93D@hrm12.house.gov> (The following is a column by Congressman Hostettler, suggested for use on opinion and editorial pages in daily and weekly newspapers. Length: 930 words.) The Growing Missile Threat By U.S. Rep. John Hostettler April 28, 1999 The desire for security is a common human trait. We seek it in every walk of life. Job security, security from intruders in our homes, security in retirement, and the security that most Americans take for granted - security from attack by a foreign nation. Not since the December 7, 1941 sneak attack on Pearl Harbor has a foreign enemy successfully attacked a target within American borders. Since then, we have been lulled into a false security. Dramatic advances in weapons technology have led many Americans to believe we have a missile defense system that will protect us against a missile attack. We don't. The fall of the Soviet Union has lulled many Americans into thinking we are now safe from the threat of a nuclear missile attack. We aren't. In fact, the risk is more widespread and less predictable. In recent years, one rogue nation after another has acquired the technology to launch missiles onto American soil. The Pacific and Atlantic oceans no longer serve as a deterrent against attack. The harsh reality is that if a foreign enemy launches even a single ballistic missile at a U.S. city, there is nothing we can do to prevent it from hitting its target and killing thousands or even millions of Americans. The United States has no missile defense system to protect American families. The time is long overdue to implement one. The threat of missile attack is real. Last summer, the Rumsfeld Commission, a bipartisan panel of national security experts, reached some frightening conclusions. The panel unanimously found that the missile threat to American families is "broader, more mature, and evolving more rapidly" than the U.S. intelligence community previously had reported. And with each passing day, our vulnerability grows. Rogue nations like North Korea, Libya, Iran and Iraq are working tirelessly to acquire the capability to strike American cities with ballistic missiles. The intelligence community recently confirmed that North Korea - a nation ruled by a Stalinist and unstable dictator who starves his own people - already has obtained this ability. Our only response to such an attack would be a strike of our own. It's clear that the threat of retaliation is not enough to deter ruthless dictators like North Korea's Kim Jong Il or Iraqi President Saddam Hussein. Both have shown themselves all too willing to put their personal agenda above the safety and well-being of their people. Of course, it's not just rogue nations that we must worry about. Last year, China added eight new intercontinental missiles to its arsenal, the majority of which are targeted at U.S. cities. In 1996, during the missile crisis between China and Taiwan, Lt. Gen. Xiong Guang Kai - a frequent spokesman for Chinese policy - asked if the U.S. would be willing to sacrifice Los Angeles for Taipei. The clear implication was that China would use the threat of a missile attack on a U.S. city to prevent the United States from defending Taiwan. And there is not only the threat of hostile and aggressive strikes against the U.S., but there is also the potential of unforeseen and accidental launches. In 1995, Russian President Boris Yeltsin activated his nuclear briefcase in response to a Norwegian scientific missile launch that he mistakenly believed was a U.S. nuclear missile attack. Russia stood only six minutes from launching a nuclear attack against the United States before the order was called off. Our lack of a missile defense system to protect us against an attack does not imply that we lack the technology to build one. On the contrary, we have the technology and the expertise to protect our population. We need only to find the political will to do it. Congress took a symbolic step in the right direction last month with the passage of a bill that makes it official U.S. policy to deploy a national missile defense system. The measure passed the House 317-105 and similar language won Senate approval by a vote of 97-3. In the face of such overwhelming and bipartisan support, President Clinton dropped his veto threat. But despite the unambiguous language in the bill, the president instructed the State Department to inform U.S. embassies that "no deployment decision has been made." According to the Washington Times, the State Department is "quietly informing overseas embassies that . . . the administration does not have to deploy such a system." Why the president remains opposed to a missile defense system is not entirely clear. His own secretary of defense, William Cohen, recently acknowledged that the threat of a missile attack is imminent. Russia, the only other nation with a large arsenal of intercontinental ballistic missiles, already has a national missile defense system. Recent polls show that the American people overwhelmingly support the deployment of a missile defense system. The cost of such a system should not be an impediment either. For about $10 billion, a fraction of the cost of President Clinton's peacekeeping missions, the United States can build a limited missile defense system. That seems a reasonable price to pay to protect our families from the threat of a nuclear, chemical, or biological missile attack. Just like at the height of the Cold War, the world is still a dangerous place. The difference is that instead of the threat from one clear enemy, we now have many. It's time that we finally build a missile defense system to protect American cities and families from those enemies. If we do not, the consequences might one day be measured in American lives. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: And yet another..... (fwd) Date: 29 Apr 1999 10:24:35 PST On Apr 28, David Coburn wrote: >And another; not specific to guns but the intent is clear: > >http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/daily/poll/0,2637,colorado,00.html > >coburn@scn.org >Any opinions expressed are mine only, and subject to change when >presented with reasonable arguments. >Yeah, right. I wouldn't say, "not specific", so much as indirect or more generalized. This one is important as it covers firearms, explosives, and a whole lot of things that could be tossed into the kettle, and yes, the intent is very clear. Frankly however, I think you've just uncovered a mole at/in(?) Time. Considering their record, we couldn't have gotten a better poll question out of them. -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: Re: stuff (fwd) Date: 30 Apr 1999 00:06:36 PST On Apr 29, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Nancy Snow wrote me: >P.S. had you seen the poll at http://www.netguide.com:320/poll/poll.html > >I went and voted. numbers look very good. The poll is about whether gun manufacturers are liable for gun crimes. It is running 83% NO. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fratrum: Re: [OPF] Questions the media probably won't ask George W. Bush! (fwd) Date: 30 Apr 1999 00:23:26 PST On Apr 30, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > More data on Little Bushy. Bill, I think you will enjoy this one. Huck > Subject: [OPF] Questions the media probably won't ask George W. Bush! > Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:13:16 -0700 > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > OutPost of Freedom maillist > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > "There are a lot of very brilliant people who believe that the > nation-state > is fast becoming a relic of the past." > --- Bill Clinton, New York Times > ---------- November 25, 1997 > "FREE SPEECH! Use it, or lose it!" > --- Ken Hamblin > ------------------------------------ > > QUESTIONS BEGIN HERE: > > (Do you think that you have used more or less cocaine than, say, Marion > Barry or Bill Clinton?) > > In 1984, after your firm, Arbusto Energy, had fallen on hard times, you > managed to get a job as the 30-something president of Spectrum 7 Energy > Corporation, the firm that purchased Arbusto. You also got 14% of the > Spectrum's stock. Meanwhile, your 50 investors in Arbusto got paid off at > about 20 cents on the dollar. Is this the sort of thing your new economic > advisor, Lawrence Lindsey, was thinking of when he said Americans had > become > too greedy? > > Or might he have been thinking of the deal in 1986 when, after Spectrum 7 > had lost $400,000 in six months, you sold it to Harken Energy, becoming a > major Harken stockholder and receiving a good salary as a director and > consultant? > > Or was it that time when you sold two-thirds of your Harken stock for a > 200% > profit on June 22, 1990, just 40 days before the start of the Gulf War > and > one week before the company announced a $23 million quarterly loss, > setting > off a 60% drop in share price over the next six months? > Why were you so valuable to these companies given your less than > impressive > business acumen? > > When you and your Harken partners ran short of cash and hooked up with > investment banker Jackson Stephens of Little Rock, Arkansas, he got you a > $25 million stock purchase by Union Bank of Switzerland. Did you know > that > Sheik Abdullah Bakhsh, who joined your board as a part of the deal, was > connected to BCCI? Did you know that the United Bank was connected to > BCCI > (including its operations in Panama), the Nugan Hand Bank (a notorious > CIA-front in Australia), and Ferdinand Marcos? > > Did you know that it was Jackson Stephens who introduced the players in > what > would turn out to be the infamous First American-BCCI deal? > > Why do your think the government of Bahrain chose Harken to drill its > offshore wells even though it had never dug overseas or in water before? > Why > do you think it chose Harken, with no relevant experience, over Amoco, > with > plenty of it? Did you ever discuss with your dad Harken-Bahrain deal? Did > any sheiks or other officials ever express any concern over the failure > of > Harken to find any oil? Do you think they really cared? > > Tell us again why you waited almost a year past the legal deadline to > file > the necessary SEC report on your Harken stock deal. > > You borrowed $180,000 from Harken at a low rate. Did you ever pay it back > or > was it included among that $341,000 Harken listed in SEC documents as > loaned > to executives and later forgiven? > > You have worked closely with a number of persons with CIA ties. Do you > think > it is healthy for the country to have three presidents in a row so > closely > connected with this intelligence agency? > > Do you think it is healthy for the country to have three presidents in a > row > who are Yale men? > > Your grandfather Prescott was on the board of Brown Harriman which helped > provide some of the financing for the Soviet and Nazi regimes. Do you > think > this was a wise idea? As president would you continue this tradition in > our > policy towards China? > > During World War II your grandfather had property seized under the > Trading > with Enemy Act. Was he pro-Nazi or just a proto-neo-capitalist ahead of > his > time? > > What is the American voter to make of the fact that two of your brothers, > one father, one grandfather, and one uncle have been involved in unseemly > scandals of one sort or another? How do you distinguish your ethical code > from theirs? > > One of your Uncle Prescott's hot deals resulted in an early but major > transfer of sensitive technology to the Chinese government. Your father > in > 1989 lifted sanctions that blocked such ventures. Do you approve of Uncle > Prescott and your father's behavior in these matters? As president would > you > allow such deals to continue? > > Do you approve of your uncle and father's role in what has become to be > known as the "October Surprise?" > > You invested $600,000 in the Texas Rangers and later sold out for $15 > million. What did you do for the Rangers in between? How much of this > profit > reflected your ability to get the city of Arlington to condemn land for a > ball park at 1/6 its true worth and then impose a 1/2 cent sales tax to > subsidize your business? Is this an example of what you meant in 1993 > when > you said, "The best way to allocate resources in our society is through > the > marketplace. Not through a governing elite?" > > Can you name a business deal you have been in that hasn't raised ethical > questions? That has made a profit without some form of government > subsidy? > > Why did you have to hire private investigators to find out what dirt > private > investigators might be able to dig up on you? > > Do you think that you have used more or less cocaine than, say, Marion > Barry > or Bill Clinton? > > Discuss this remark by Michael King in the Texas Observer: "Although by > his > own admission George W. was an indifferent student, he was nevertheless > the > deserving-by-both beneficiary of the oldest most illegitimate, and most > sacrosanct form of affirmative action. . . It's business as usual." > > Since you want to help "instill individual responsibility" and give > people a > "future of opportunity, instead of dependence on government," why did you > and your neighbors at the exclusive Rainbow Club development get a tax > break > from your government? In what ways do such tax breaks differ from welfare > benefits other than that welfare recipients are more needy? > > Do you believe that being a member of a secret society dedicated to > promoting fraternal nepotism in public office is consistent with being > president of a democracy? If the words "skull and bones" are mentioned at > a > White House news conference, will you -- as the tradition of the society > demands -- feel compelled to leave the room? > http://prorev.com/politics3.htm > > Bard > > Visit me at: > The Center for Exposing Corruption in the Federal Government > http://www.xld.com/public/center/center.htm > > Federal Government defined: > ....a benefit/subsidy protection racket! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: (Fwd) PETITION TO GET OUT OF THE U.N.. (fwd) Date: 30 Apr 1999 08:53:13 PST Well, Halleluya! The only thing he seems to have missed is getting us out of NATO! On Apr 30, T.King wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Send reply to: lpus-misc@dehnbase.org Date sent: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:30:38 -0500 An Action Item... - Eric "JM" wrote on news:alt.politics.elections : > > Please write your Representative in support of HR 1146 > and sign the online petition at > http://www.e-thepeople.com/petition.cfm?PETID=117781 > in support of HR 1146, the AMERICAN > SOVEREIGNTY RESTORATION ACT to get the U.S. out of the U.N.. > > Rep. Ron Paul's Project Freedom Website at > http://www.house.gov/paul/privacy/ > > AMERICAN SOVEREIGNTY RESTORATION ACT (HR 1146, > 106th Congress, 1st > Session) > > The following is a Resolution in Congress brought by > Ron Paul to end the United States involvement in the United > Nations. > > Sponsors of this legislation are as follows: > > Sponsor > Ron Paul, TX > > Co-Sponsors > Ralph Hall, TX > Helen Chenowith, ID > John Dolittle, CA > Richard Pombo, CA > Charlie Norwood, GA > Bob Stump, AZ > Roscoe Bartlett, MD > Robert Ney, OH > John Duncan, TN > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > HR 1146 IH > 106th CONGRESS > 1st Session > H. R. 1146 > To end membership of the United States in the > United Nations. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > A BILL > To end membership of the United States in the > United Nations. > > SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. > This Act may be cited as the 'American Sovereignty > Restoration Act of 1999'. > > SEC. 2. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS PARTICIPATION > ACT. > > (a) REPEAL - The United Nations Participation > Act of 1945 (Public Law 79-264, 22 U.S.C. 287-287e) is repealed. > > (b) TERMINATION OF PARTICIPATION IN UNITED > NATIONS - The President shall terminate all participation > by the United States in the United Nations, and any organ, > specialized agency, commission or other formally > affiliated body of the United Nations. > > (c) CLOSURE OF UNITED STATES MISSION TO UNITED > NATIONS - The United States Mission to the United Nations > is closed. Any remaining functions of such office shall not be > carried out. > > SEC. 3. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS HEADQUARTERS > AGREEMENT ACT. > > (a) REPEAL - The United Nations Headquarters > Agreement Act (Public Law 80-357) is repealed. > > (b) WITHDRAWAL - The United States withdraws > from the agreement between the United States and the > United Nations regarding the headquarters of the United > Nations (signed at Lake Success, New York, on June 26, 1947, > which was brought into effect by the United Nations > Headquarters Agreement Act). > > SEC. 4. UNITED STATES ASSESSED AND VOLUNTARY > CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE UNITED > NATIONS. > > (a) TERMINATION - No funds are authorized to be > appropriated or otherwise made available for assessed > or voluntary contributions of the United States to the > United Nations or any organ, specialized agency, > commission or other formally affiliated body thereof, > except that funds may be appropriated to facilitate > withdrawal of United States personnel and equipment. > Upon termination of United States membership, no > payments shall be made to the United Nations or any > organ, specialized agency, commission or other formally > affiliated body thereof, out of any funds appropriated > prior to such termination or out of any other funds > available for such purposes. > > (b) APPLICATION - The provisions of this > section shall apply to all > agencies of the United Nations, including > independent or voluntary > agencies. > > SEC. 5. UNITED NATIONS PEACEKEEPING > OPERATIONS. > > (a) TERMINATION - No funds are authorized to > be appropriated or > otherwise made available for any United States > contribution to any > United Nations military operation. > > (b) TERMINATIONS OF UNITED STATES > PARTICIPATION IN UNITED NATIONS > PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS- No funds may be > obligated or expended to > support the participation of any member of the > Armed Forces of the > United States as part of any United Nations > military or peacekeeping > operation or force. No member of the Armed > Forces of the United States > may serve under the command of the United > Nations. > > SEC. 6. WITHDRAWAL OF UNITED NATIONS PRESENCE > IN FACILITIES OF THE > GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND REPEAL OF > DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY. > > (a) WITHDRAWAL FROM UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT- The United > Nations (including any affiliated agency of > the United Nations) shall > not occupy or use any property or facility of > the United States > Government. > > (b) DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY - No officer or > employee of the United Nations > or any representative, officer, or employee of > any mission to the United > Nations of any foreign government shall be > entitled to enjoy the > privileges and immunities of the Vienna > Convention on Diplomatic > Relations of April 18, 1961, nor may any such > privileges and immunities > be extended to any such individual. The > privileges, exemptions and > immunities provided for in the International > Organizations Immunities > Act of December 29, 1945 (59 Stat. 669; 22 > U.S.C. 288, 288a-f), or in > any agreement or treaty to which the United > States is a party, including > the agreement entitled "Agreement Between the > United Nations and the > United States of America Regarding the > Headquarters of the United > Nations," signed June 26, 1947 (22 U.S.C. > 287), and the Convention on > Privileges and Immunities of the United > Nations, entered into force with > respect to the United States on April 29, > 1970, (21 UST 1418; TIAS 6900; > UNTS 16), shall not apply to the United > Nations or any organ, > specialized agency, commission or other > formally affiliated body > thereof, to the officers and employees of the > United Nations, or any > organ, specialized agency, commission or other > formally affiliated body > thereof, or to the families, suites or > servants of such officers or > employees. > > SEC. 7. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS EDUCATIONAL, > SCIENTIFIC, AND CULTURAL > ORGANIZATION ACT - The joint resolution > entitled `A joint resolution > providing for membership and participation by > the United States in the > United Nations Educational, Scientific, and > Cultural Organization, and > authorizing an appropriation therefor' > approved July 30, 1946 (Public > Law 79-565, 22 U.S.C. 287m-287t), is repealed. > > SEC. 8. REPEAL OF UNITED NATIONS ENVIRONMENT > PROGRAM PARTICIPATION ACT > OF 1973 - The United Nations Environment > Program Participation Act of > 1973 (22 U.S.C. 287 note) is repealed. > > SEC. 9 REPEAL OF UNITED STATES PARTICIPATION > IN THE WORLD HEALTH > ORGANIZATION - The joint resolution entitled > "Joint Resolution providing > for membership and participation by the United > States in the World > Health Organization and authorizing an > appropriation therefor," approved > July 14, 1948 (22 U.S.C. 290, 290a-e-1) is > repealed. > > SEC. 10 REPEAL OF INVOLVEMENT IN UNITED > NATIONS CONVENTIONS AND AGREEMENTS - > As of the date of enactment of this act, the United > States will end any and all participation in any and > all conventions and/or agreements with the United > Nations and any organ, specialized agency, > commission or other formally affiliated body > thereof. Any remaining functions of such conventions > and/or agreements shall not be carried out. > > SEC. 11 - REEMPLOYMENT WITH UNITED STATES > GOVERNMENT AFTER SERVICE WITH > AN INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION > > Nothing in this Act shall be construed to affect the > rights of employees under subchapter IV of chapter 35 > of title 5, United States Code, relating to reemployment > after service with an international organization. > > SEC. 12 - NOTIFICATION > > Effective on the date of the enactment of this > Act, the Secretary of State shall notify the United > Nations and any organ, specialized agency, > commission or other formally affiliated body > of the United Nations of the provisions of this Act. > > SEC. 13 - EFFECTIVE DATE > > Except as otherwise provided, this Act and the > amendments made by this Act shall take effect > 2 years after the date of the enactment of this Act. > > ==================================================================== [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Attention Kmart Shoppers: Contact Info for Kmart (fwd) Date: 30 Apr 1999 19:38:08 PST On Apr 30, David Wisniewski wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] If you are interested in voicing your opinion over Kmart spokesperson Rosie O'Donnel's comments regarding firearms, listed below are the Chairman/President/CEO, US President and Board of Directors for Kmart. Please remember to be polite. Floyd Hall Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer Kmart 3100 W Big Beaver Road Troy, MI 48084 Andrew A. Giancamilli President and General Merchandise Manager, U.S. Kmart 3100 W Big Beaver Road Troy, MI 48084 Board of Directors: James B. Adamson Chairman, President and CEO Advantica Restaurant Group 203 E. Main St. Spartanburg, SC 29301 Stephen F. Bollenbach President and CEO Hilton Hotels Corporation 9336 Civic Center Dr. Beverly Hills, CA 90210 Joseph A. Califano, Jr. Chairman and President The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University 152 West 57 Street New York New York 10019 Richard G. Cline Chairman Hussman International, Inc. 12999 St. Charles Rock Rd. Bridgeton, MO 63044-2483 Willie D. Davis President All Pro Broadcasting, Inc. 4222 W. Capitol Drive Milwaukee WI 53216 Joseph P. Flannery Chairman, President and CEO Uniroyal Holding, Inc. 70 Great Hill Rd Naugatuck, CT 06770 Robert D. Kennedy Chairman and CEO UCAR International, Inc. 3102 West End Ave., Ste. 1100 Nashville, TN 37203 J. Richard Munro Chairman of the Board Genetech, Inc. 1 DNA Way South San Francisco, CA 94080-4990 Robin B. Smith Chairman and CEO Publishers Clearing House 382 Channel Dr. Port Washington, NY 11050 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- -