From: larry ball Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Date: 01 May 2000 07:20:52 -0500 Thanks, Boyd. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com boyd@seanet.com wrote: > Ken Mitchell wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:20 PM > > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > snip > > > Larry Ball > > > > One essential consideration here is that the Federal government has NEVER > > BEFORE interfered in an international custody dispute. > snip > > There are hundreds of incidents where foreign-born parents (usually men) > > have left the country with their kids, in violation of a custody order, and > > the U.S. has refused even to protest to the foreign government involved. Why > > is Slick Willie so eager to change positions here? > > First off I agree with neither of the "sides" here. IMHO this was not a > clear cut simple custody case nor was it an obvious example of federal > abuse of power. -But- since such a large number of people have decided > to post so passionately about it in Restore Our Constitution, I'll take > a small exception to this claim above. > I have personal experience with a case where a father stole custody of > the mothers children and took them to a central american country with no > extradition agreement (at the time) with the US. The US state department > -within- -days- (as they should have) dispatched their people in that > country to demand deportation of the kidnapper and children and that > governments federal forces were -doing- that when the kidnapper killed > the children and committed suicide about a week later. > It is -common- for nations to cooperate internationally in child > kidnapping cases, even countries that do not share criminal extradition > treaties. I am proud that our US state department is part of this > general sort of informal international action. Boyd Kneeland > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net > > 916-955-9152 (voicemail) http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as > > possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." Voltaire > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larry ball Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Date: 01 May 2000 07:23:42 -0500 Lew, Tunnel vision is not a malady inflicted upon only one side in an argument. Beware yourself. Even Clinton/Reno can do some things right. So can Castro. They ain't all wrong all of the time. Our enemies for sure, but to judge them totally wrong is certainly a dangerous predisposition. Cheers. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Lew Glendenning wrote: > Freedom is the highest value, IMHO, but there are no doubt circumstances > which could make me choose something else. > > Beware of single-valued ethics. A hint that you might be wrong is that this > has lead > you to support Clinton/Reno, Castro and a probable-father who probably > doesn't give a damn over the future of a small child with a real brave > mother. > > This combination of people is no doubt right about something, so we do have > to make up > our own minds, based on the evidence ... > > Lew > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry ball > > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 3:52 PM > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > > For the record, Lew, I have been in favor of sending the Marines > > in and removing > > Castro for 'lo these many years. I am still in favor of this. I > > am just NOT in > > favor of taking children from their parents. > > > > Larry Ball > > lball@inetnebr.com > > > > Lew Glendenning wrote: > > > > > I was a kid on my first trip to Florida when Castro took over. > > Coming back > > > from the > > > Keys, our car was searched for escapees from Cuba. > > > > > > Batatista was a lousy leader, in the grand Spanish tradition, > > but far from a > > > totalitarian dictator. Cuba was not a great society, at least > > in the big > > > cities. But, this is far from the worst that can befall a society. > > > > > > You hear Cuban/US Liberal propaganda about the wonders of Cuban society. > > > True, they train a lot of health professionals, have 'free' > > health care, ... > > > This only means something if the economy is strong enough to actually > > > provide plumbing that works, surgical instruments, ... You > > guess -- If a > > > society is so poor that the MDs have to resort to prostitution > > to feed their > > > family, is it likely to be providing children's immunization? > > > > > > Which would you rather have: a degenerate society in Havana > > and a few other > > > resort areas, or many wives resorting to prostitution? > > > > > > Don't tell me Castro is an improvement on Batista. People were bound by > > > poverty and corruption with Batista, not by a totalitarian state. The > > > latter is an entirely different class of beast, with an average > > longevity of > > > 50+ years. 2.5 generations of lost hope, training understanding and > > > expectations in entirely the wrong directions. With all of its > > advantages, > > > East Germans will take an additional 2 generations to recover from the > > > effects of their experiment with communism. > > > > > > Easy to check who is right about health care: Does Cuba provide normal > > > morbidity/mortality statistics? Checked by international agencies? > > > > > > I am familiar with Russia, which stopped providing such > > statistics in the > > > 70s. Their > > > neonatal mortality had risen to 3rd world levels, and this was > > far from the > > > depths > > > the economy has descended to since then. Average age of death > > for a Russian > > > man was 67 and falling. > > > > > > My wife's family has a lot of ugly stories about people who > > died for trivial > > > reasons, including lousy care in hospitals. Bribery is > > required for MDs. > > > > > > There was an article in one of the Miami area papers about the lives of > > > average > > > Cuban families. Problems with medicine and health care were prominant. > > > People resort to herbs and less-scientific remedies. > > > > > > As for Elian, he may be a small problem compared to Cuba, but > > he is one we > > > can fix. > > > > > > Castro is Cuba's problem. We shouldn't be putting any barriers > > in the way > > > of Miami's Cubans in fixing their problem. If we loosed the > > leashes, the > > > problem would disappear shortly. > > > > > > As for the history, mafia, etc. I think your version is too > > simple. I am > > > reading > > > Buchanan's "Republic, not an Empire" which touches on all of > > this. We could > > > have > > > annexed Cuba the way we did Puerto Rico and the Philippines, > > but got smart > > > just > > > in time. I believe we helped free them from the Spanish, then > > stepped back. > > > > > > For all of that, Batista was no worse than most of the SA > > dictators of his > > > day. Not our problem, any of them. > > > > > > Lew > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > > > > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry ball > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 10:25 AM > > > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > > > > > > > > Allright, Lew, I know where you are coming from and respect > > the sentiment. > > > > However, I do not believe that your assertions have been proven. > > > > For example, > > > > lack of medicine. What I have heard for several years now is > > > > that Cuba has one > > > > of the best health care systems anywhere. They train a large > > > > number of doctors > > > > and other health care professionals. In fact they even export > > > > them to other > > > > third world nations. > > > > > > > > Also, you are probably not as old as I am. I remember Batista. > > > > Batista is the > > > > little punk dictator that Castro threw out. He was a baaad guy. > > > > The mafia > > > > controled Cuba through him. I remember going to naval reserve > > > > meetings while > > > > still in high school with a couple of officers that had taken > > > > their two week > > > > cruise there. The stories about sexual deviancy and other crime > > > > still sicken > > > > me. Nightclub acts where girls take on donkeys. This type of > > > > degenerancy was > > > > common in the Cuba of the '40's and '50's. What freedom did > > > > Batista and his > > > > Mafia bosses allow the average citizen? Castro might just come > > > > out better by > > > > comparison. And for that matter, Cuba, was a client state of the > > > > good old USA > > > > until Castro. Why did we not insure freedom and properity > > for our Cubano > > > > neighbors? Instead of looking out for the general good of Cubano > > > > society, we > > > > milked it! Elian is just a pimple on the mass injustice that has > > > > been inflicted > > > > upon the people first by Spain, then by Us and now Komrad Fidel. > > > > > > > > I still think that Elian is better off with his father. > > > > > > > > Larry Ball > > > > lball@inetnebr.com > > > > > > > > Lew Glendenning wrote: > > > > > > > > > I certainly agree with you. > > > > > > > > > > In my definition, choosing is a) uncoerced and b) generally > > admits the > > > > > possibility of reversing the choice. > > > > > > > > > > This probable-father is not choosing. He has never been > > out of sight of > > > > > Castro's > > > > > minions. He is not free to make any decisions. He didn't > > > > decide to gain > > > > > custody of his child, Castro did. He isn't free to defect. > > Elian, at > > > > > least, has become so important to Cuba's political propaganda > > > > that he will > > > > > never be out of sight of Castro's police. > > > > > > > > > > If Elian goes back to Cuba, it is a one-way decision. They can > > > > never try > > > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > This child will be the most indoctrinated kid in Cuba. He will > > > > be kept 60 > > > > > miles from the probable-father, who doesn't have a car. > > They will be > > > > > trotted out for lots of rallies for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > There are no parental rights in Cuba. This is also a > > country with no > > > > > property rights, no civil rights at all. There is a big > > > > shortage of food, > > > > > of medicine. The death rate for childhood diseases, > > accidents, ... is > > > > > therefore horrendous. > > > > > > > > > > Is it correct for two governments to make choices for a > > child? To use 3 > > > > > vans of > > > > > heavily armed INS slave catchers to take him from loving, free > > > > relatives and > > > > > deliver > > > > > him back to ownership of the Cuban state? To do so to satisfy > > > > the dictator > > > > > of that slave state? > > > > > > > > > > This is also a real bad way to organize a society. > > > > > > > > > > Lew > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > > > > > > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of larry ball > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 5:59 AM > > > > > > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lew, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rational? Define this for me. It has been my thought that it is > > > > > > you that lacks > > > > > > rationality. What is your definition of liberty? Is it for a > > > > > > father to chose > > > > > > the country of his choice in which to raise his children? Is it > > > > > > for the freedom > > > > > > of a father to raise his children in the "way that they > > are to go?" > > > > > > > > > > > > This is certainly a rational method of gaining an orderly society. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, again, we might structure our society so that everything we > > > > > > do is "for the > > > > > > children." If a child wants to do this or that we let it, > > > > > > regardless of age or > > > > > > maturity. It seems that your vaunted courts have decided on > > > > this course. > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Ball > > > > > > lball@inetnebr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Lew Glendenning wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I side with the courts when they side with Freedom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your statement is not rational argument. I have not charged > > > > > > any of you with > > > > > > > agreeing with Janet Reno and her baby murders. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > - > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Date: 01 May 2000 09:22:10 -0400 Just a note. I have read reports that say the opposite from what Boyd says. That usually the US does NOTHING when US born children are taken out of the country illegally by one of their foreign parents. I do not have enough info to support either side, but wanted to post this so that we are not all happy and warm and fuzzy about US efforts in this area. Chad --On Monday, May 1, 2000 7:20 AM -0500 larry ball wrote: > Thanks, Boyd. > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > boyd@seanet.com wrote: > >> Ken Mitchell wrote: >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 6:20 PM >> > > Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) >> > > >> snip >> > > Larry Ball >> > >> > One essential consideration here is that the Federal government has >> > NEVER BEFORE interfered in an international custody dispute. >> snip >> > There are hundreds of incidents where foreign-born parents (usually >> > men) have left the country with their kids, in violation of a custody >> > order, and the U.S. has refused even to protest to the foreign >> > government involved. Why is Slick Willie so eager to change positions >> > here? >> >> First off I agree with neither of the "sides" here. IMHO this was not a >> clear cut simple custody case nor was it an obvious example of federal >> abuse of power. -But- since such a large number of people have decided >> to post so passionately about it in Restore Our Constitution, I'll take >> a small exception to this claim above. >> I have personal experience with a case where a father stole custody of >> the mothers children and took them to a central american country with no >> extradition agreement (at the time) with the US. The US state department >> -within- -days- (as they should have) dispatched their people in that >> country to demand deportation of the kidnapper and children and that >> governments federal forces were -doing- that when the kidnapper killed >> the children and committed suicide about a week later. >> It is -common- for nations to cooperate internationally in child >> kidnapping cases, even countries that do not share criminal extradition >> treaties. I am proud that our US state department is part of this >> general sort of informal international action. Boyd Kneeland >> >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > --- Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net >> > 916-955-9152 (voicemail) >> > http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > --- "In general the art of government consists in taking as much money >> > as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." >> > Voltaire >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > --- >> > >> > - >> >> - > > > - > Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Quotes on Elian and the Little Havana raid (fwd) Date: 01 May 2000 09:41:20 -0400 (EDT) > >Freedom is the highest priority here. > >Lew > Amen. We seem to be forgetting that the boy's mother died (along with 10 others, out of 14) getting him to U.S. soil, with the aquiescence of the boy's father. The image of a mass of psychological specialists, propagandists, and various Communist toadies sequestered with the boy after an armed Federal raid (with a warrant written on Good Friday, by a compliant magistrate, 'cause the real judges in the case, the 11th Circuit trio declined to act in this area) just turns my stomach. Freedom is the highest priority here. Thank you, Lew. A nice terse statement of the problem. jcurtis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: No One Told Us What Happened to Elian's NEIGHBORS... (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 08:25:32 PST On May 2, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:08 AM Magicians have long known how useful it can be to distract the attention of the audience away from what they're really doing. Unfortunately, so have politicians and propagandists. The magnitude of real crimes that the American public is willing to overlook when distracted by a sordid sex scandal, or a soap opera spun around a doe-eyed child, is simply amazing. One of the underappreciated aspects of the INS raid in Miami was what happened to the residents of the house behind the one where the targeted child was living. Claiming that the action was needed to protect the assault team attacking the private residence listed in their "arrest warrant", the agents first "secured" an entirely separate residence. As has become standard practice in America today, the heavily armed storm troopers broke down the doors before dawn and "neutralized" those inside. They dragged the manacled residents out of their home and onto the lawn, forcing the terrified captives to publicly prostrate themselves before the black-hooded symbols of state violence. Just what heinous crime justified depriving these individuals of their fundamental rights as freemen? What had they done to deserve having their property destroyed and their privacy violated, as well as being subjected to physical assault and public humiliation by the agents of the state? The citizens who were rousted from their beds and prostrated on their lawn while masked agents of the state trashed their home hadn't committed a crime, let alone demonstrated that they posed a danger to the public. There was no due process, no proof of guilt before a jury of their peers. Incredibly, their sole "crime" was the suspicion that they might exercise their constitutional rights and fulfill their duties as citizens of a free nation. The official spokesman at the scene explained that this raid on a private residence was simply a precautionary measure. The police suspected the individuals in the house might own guns. The agents were simply making sure that the suspected guns couldn't be used to resist the primary mission targeting the adjoining private residence. These citizens were violently "neutralized" because someone in the vast "law enforcement" bureaucracy thought they *might* be willing and able to resist outrageous acts by government agents. The government spokesman and the news media both treated this justification as being perfectly reasonable. Our Constitution protects the rights of the people to both keep and bear arms. In other times, the membership of all able-bodied citizens in the unorganized national militia was recognized as extending the right to be armed into a duty to be armed. These innocent individuals were assaulted specifically because government agents suspected they might be exercising their constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Many reasonable people are outraged at the actions of the government agents in Miami - regardless of their views on what should be done with the child who is being used to distract our attention. Our Declaration of Independence clearly states that it is the duty of freemen to resist outrageous abuses of power by government agents. These individuals were pre-emptively "neutralized" because the INS suspected they might, as free citizens, be sufficiently offended by the violations of law and court orders the INS was intending to perpetrate next door, to rise to the defense of the intended victims. The suspicion that these individuals might do their duty as citizens became the justification for the violation of their fundamental rights. Even if the targets of this intentional violence had been guilty of some crime, the state is obligated to treat the accused as innocent until proven guilty. The building entry and suppression tactics they employed were guaranteed to at least cause property damage and substantial physical discomfort for any citizens they find inside. That is if the assault troops didn't murder the innocent citizens outright as so often happens in these kinds of paramilitary operations. The victims of this state violence hadn't been charged with a crime when government agents deprived them of their fundamental rights and destroyed their private property. There was never any intention of respecting the innocence of the targets of this violence. The specific intent of the government agents was to inflict harm on individuals they knew to be entirely innocent. There has been a lot of noise in the press about the political damage that will result from the "mishandling" of the Elian controversy. But just as after Ruby Ridge and Waco, while the villains put on a show of embarrassment over the trivial issues that have distracted the public's attention, the major crimes they committed against the fundamental principles of freedom go unnoticed. Did any of the citizens in Miami actually believe that the Waco mass murderers had learned the errors of their ways and abandoned violence as a means of imposing their will? Or did the unpunished mass murders at Waco succeed in intimidating the citizens in Miami into passively allowing their rights to be violated out of a well founded fear of indiscriminate mass murder by government storm troopers? I've already heard disquieting statements in the mainstream media that since Waco demonstrated government agents would simply kill anyone who resisted, the defense of freedom was no longer a valid justification for the right to bear arms. It has even been claimed that since the mere suspicion citizens might be armed triggers such aggressive violence by government agents, a "citizen" was safer not exercising his constitutional rights. At the cost of a little contrived sadness over the "self-inflicted" deaths at Waco, the storm troopers gained a powerful psychological weapon to use against the freedom of all citizens. Building on the lessons of Waco we now have the lessons of Miami. While the focus of public attention was distracted into thinking the controversy was about the welfare of a child, the nation was being taught that the courts had no power to restrain the violence of the storm troopers. When the courts refused to rubber-stamp their demands, the storm troopers simply resorted to violence in order to impose their will on those who dared to oppose them. And just as expected, while the storm troopers used brute force to create the reality the courts had denied them, the courts shuffled their papers and demonstrated that the law was nothing but an empty sham - a useful tool for attacking the rights of freemen, but utterly worthless in defending those rights. Perhaps the most disturbing lesson we were taught in Miami is the redefinition of citizenship. The exercise of a free citizen's rights and duties was once a respected badge of honor. In Miami our rulers demonstrated that even the suspicion of being an honorable citizen is now considered sufficient probable cause for a predawn assault by armed and armored storm troopers. In the land of the formerly free, the exercise of freedom has been perverted into an excuse to violently subjegate those who still value their freedom. An "accidental" death at the hands of black hooded killers who will never be held accountable for their crimes awaits those unwilling to be slaves. Once again, those who masquerade as the opposition have been making a lot of noise about "investigating" trivial distractions - while ignoring the massive crimes being committed against the fundamental principles of freedom. Once again the media is gearing up to force feed sensationalized drivel to the public until the unthinking masses get bored and tune out, totally oblivious to those few voices sounding the alarm amidst the cacop ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] [Fwd: Release: toy gun buy-back] (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 08:27:42 PST On May 01, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ======================================= NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY 2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100 Washington DC 20037 World Wide Web: http://www.LP.org ======================================= For release: April 28, 2000 ======================================= For additional information: George Getz, Press Secretary Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222 E-Mail: 76214.3676@Compuserve.com ======================================= Politician proposes toy gun buy-back to prevent kids' "violent behavior" WASHINGTON, DC -- A politician in Maryland wants to start a buy-back program for toy guns -- yes, toy guns -- and it's got Libertarians baffled: They don't know whether to support the program or snicker at it. "This is a real dilemma," said Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "Do we praise this politician for going after toy guns instead of Constitutionally protected real guns? Or do we point out that buying back toy guns will no more keep our streets safe than buying back non-alcoholic beer will keep Ted Kennedy sober? "Or should we just give this politician an award for coming up with the most entertainingly goofy idea of the year?" This week, Annapolis alderwoman Cynthia A. Carter proposed that the city start a program to buy back water pistols, cap guns, and other toy weapons to curb "violent behavior" among children. The first-term Democrat argued that children "can't distinguish between a real gun or a play gun," and said she would eventually like to make all toy guns illegal. But until that happens, Carter said she will seek city funds or private contributions to start the toy gun buy-back program. Libertarians have a hard time taking the proposal seriously, admitted Dasbach. "Our first concern was whether this program would lead to the creation of a new federal agency; the BATTF -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Toy Firearms. But our second concern was -- where will this end?" For example, if politicians decide this program is successful, will they then... * Prevent the next Microsoft by buying back Monopoly games? * Prevent traffic accidents by buying back Hot Wheels toy cars? * Prevent burglaries by buying back Barbie's Dream House? * Prevent deforestation by buying back Lincoln Logs? * Prevent gambling by buying back Pokemon cards? * Prevent urban sprawl by buying back Lego bricks? * Prevent war by buying back G.I. Joes? Yes, those suggestions are ridiculous -- but no more ridiculous than the idea that buying toy guns will prevent children from engaging in make-believe "violence," said Dasbach. "This month, a school in New Jersey suspended two kindergarten students after they played cops-and-robbers on the playground, pointed their fingers at each other like guns, and shouted 'bang bang!'," he noted. "Which brave politician will be the first to propose a finger buy-back program?" But before politicians head in that ludicrous direction -- or suggest some kind of "compromise," like a seven-day waiting period before purchasing a toy gun, or toy gun trigger locks -- Libertarians have a better idea, said Dasbach. "Here's a suggestion for Alderwoman Carter: Instead of buying toy guns, buy a clue," he said. "Disarming toy gun-toting tots is a childish reaction to a serious public problem. A six-year-old with a water pistol doesn't cause crime; criminals cause crime. And the sooner politicians figure that out, the safer we will all be." -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBOQ04P9CSe1KnQG7RAQHQdwP+N94FsnH41zTgRn/Sq9vDxN8ErfD2TwQj 4KY2ffQPqMecTusuMBSolFuwecVDhbhWqc+yJXYW446u+ClRvvVwG/9iDARsIx8Y MMM7FIIEIqjp8xil6ErWs4loF1WjbvbnD6A1g04XlSnHEpWrODYdW/R1jg3fw1it xDimaNKb2ro= =HBH0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- The Libertarian Party http://www.lp.org/ 2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100 voice: 202-333-0008 Washington DC 20037 fax: 202-333-0072 For subscription changes, send a message to with just the word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line. Or use the WWW form at: http://www.lp.org/lp-announce-form.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - hony of overhyped trivia. Once again Americans have become obsessed with meaningless trivia while refusing to notice that their fundamental rights are being stolen. -- Kort E Patterson http://www.hevanet.com/kort [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Long Version -- Miami raid (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 08:26:30 PST On May 1, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Subj: VIN -- Miami raid Date: 4/30/2000 12:30:26 AM Central Daylight Time From: newsucanuse@egroups.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz "A show of force ... to show we were in control" And so the Clinton administration, which began its term using tanks to knock down the walls and staircases of a plywood church in Texas, spraying in flammable nerve agent while holding firefighting equipment miles away, the better to incinerate scores of innocent women and children already choking on their own vomit, has decided to go out in similar style, staging a violent and unnecessary pre-dawn raid by a massed force of bounding overweight paramilitary goons armed with German submachine guns, in order to "show who's boss" in the matter of a 6-year-old Cuban refugee. This is the administration which wants to take all defensive arms away from us law-abiding peasants, mind you, since "guns never solve anything." Yet when faced with even a momentary frustration in the courts (no, Elian's Florida relatives had not violated any court order to turn over the kid. In fact, it was Attorney General Janet Reno who went to court a few days before her daredevil raid, seeking a custody order, and was specifically turned down), the Clintons revert to the old ways -- MP-5 machine guns in the dawn. Unless Lon Horiuchi is available, of course. Ms. Reno then went on TV, telling us the wonderful thing about TV is that we can all see the kid was never in danger -- the gunman's finger was indexed along the receiver, not actually inside the trigger guard. Hey, good one. Actually, we couldn't see what happened inside the house on TV, Ms. Reno, because your goons slammed the pool cameraman, NBC's Tony Zumbado, in the forehead with their gun butts and stomped him so badly he had to be hospitalized (this according to NewsMax.com -- NBC itself having become such a government courtesan in its electronic dotage that the network never bothered to report this, to the best of my knowledge.) Ms. Reno said her agents had to use force because the Cuban-Americans outside the house resisted the raid, "throwing ropes" around her agents. This bizarre statement led to a correction from the Justice Department a few hours later -- no ropes, it turns out; the agents merely kept tripping over Mr. Zumbado's trailing video cables after they beat him to the ground. But as for the notion that AP photographer Alan Diaz's still photo demonstrates that the kid was never in danger, take another look at the photo. Then ask anyone who's ever fired a subgun how they jump around if you discharge them, full auto, without the stock firmly tucked into your shoulder. A friend called me after the raid to point out that, in his younger days, his ex-wife refused to obey a court order and allow him to see his kids. When he asked the court to enforce its own order, the court told him he was out of luck. "Why didn't they send 100 guys with German submachine guns to break down her door in the middle of the night and bring me my kids?" he asked. "At least I had a court order." (Though Reno's second in command at Justice initially insisted they had no arrest or custody order because "We didn't need one," the story changed within a few days. We're now informed that instead of going to Federal District Judge Michael Moore -- who was familiar with the case -- Reno's goons waited till after 7 p.m. Good Friday evening to obtain a "search warrant" from a low-ranking rubber-stamp magistrate, based on an absurdly perjured affidavit that young Elian was an "illegal alien" being "concealed" in the house.) For that matter, imagine how our "justice system" would respond if someone like my friend hired armed mercenaries to go enforce his court order, seizing his kids from his ex-wife at gunpoint. If he and his hired hands were arrested, do you suppose they could count on Ms. Reno to go on TV, insisting they not be charged with any crime, since "The pictures clearly show their index fingers lay alongside the receivers of their full-auto submachine guns, not inside the trigger guards"? Welcome to the rule of law in modern America -- one set of rules for us peasants, and no law at all to restrict the government goons. But this was all about getting little Elian some "quiet time with his father," wasn't it? Even though, according to The New York Times, Juan Miguel Gonzalez divorced Elian's mom in May of 1991, and Elian was born on Dec. 6, 1993. Do the math. This father -- if any DNA test would even confirm he is the father -- has no automatic parental rights in any American court. Besides which, Castro's henchmen keep referring to little Elian as the "property of the Cuban state," and have made it abundantly clear that, upon return to the slave state, little Elian will be housed in a special beachfront re-education camp, 60 miles from his father, who doesn't even own a car. "Family togetherness," Communist style. Who's really behind all this? Juan Miguel Gonzalez' attorney is Greg Craig. A friend of Bill Clinton since his days at Yale law school, Craig -- the guy who asked the national press to "please refrain" from covering the story too closely -- is the guy who helped young Bill and Hillary get their first apartment together. This thing has more Clinton fingerprints on it than the Rose Law Firm billing records. Why are we to suppose Judge J. L. Edmondson of the 11th Circuit issued a special injunction right after Ms. Reno's latest raid, warning the administration not to spirit young Elian away "to any place ... lying beyond the power and jurisdiction of the Courts of the United States, including, but not limited to, any place that is or may be entitled to diplomatic immunity"? Gee, I don't know. But let anyone dare speculate that Bill Clinton, the draft dodger who visited Moscow while organizing anti-war protests in London in the 1960s, the fellow who sold sensitive military satellite and missile technology to the Chinese Red Army over the objections of his own cabinet officers after accepting millions of dollars in illegally laundered Chinese bribes while hosting Red Chinese spies in the Lincoln bedroom, is organizing this whole affair on behalf of his communist buddy Fidel Castro, and that person would surely be dismissed as just another "black-helicopter conspiracy nut," wouldn't he? After all, it's terribly dated to pretend there's any evidence of statist leaning in the decision of The New York Times and Time and Newsweek not to run Alan Diaz's dramatic photo of the child and the G-man on their covers last week (most opting instead for the staged, government-approved "happy photo" of Elian reunited with his "dad") or in the recent declaration on national TV by Newsweek's Eleanor Clift that "to be a poor child in Cuba may in many instances be better than being a poor child in Miami." So what if Human Rights Watch reports "President" Castro has made it a crime to distribute bibles, that he "restricts such fundamental human rights as expression, association, assembly, movement, and the press," that he "imprisons or kills people for the crime of trying to leave the country" -- which is why Elian's mother died in the first place. (Though Castro did have a crucial accomplice. On the campaign trail in 1992, candidate Clinton called for an end to George Bush's "cruel and inhumane" policy of returning refugees to oppression in Haiti and Cuba. Then, once elected, Clinton promptly reversed his stance, toughening restrictions and -- contrary to international law -- fining private ship captains $3,000 for every refugee rescued and brought to an American shore. Ever heard Bill Clinton condemn the communist "evil empire"? I don't think so.) So what if Cuban parents who refuse to raise their kids as good communists can now be charged with the crime of "hindering the normal development of the child"? So what if Human Rights Watch reports Castro has so far murdered 15,000 of his political opponents? What's that, in the view of the Clintons and their media apologists, compared to the kind of "child safety" ushered in by such achievements as "modest, sensible, civilian gun control"? And if one more child has to be sacrificed in the cause of rehabilitating state socialism in the eyes of the American public, well, who's counting any more? Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Ball Subject: Re: Fw: No One Told Us What Happened to Elian's NEIGHBORS... (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 12:58:49 -0500 Good post, Bill. I, too, think this outrageous. Question: What can we do about it? Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Bill Vance wrote: > On May 2, The McGehee Zone wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kort E Patterson > To: Intertel Top1 list ; Oregon Mensa email list > > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:08 AM > Subject: The Lessons of Miami > > Magicians have long known how useful it can be to distract the > attention of the audience away from what they're really doing. > Unfortunately, so have politicians and propagandists. The > magnitude of real crimes that the American public is willing to > overlook when distracted by a sordid sex scandal, or a soap opera > spun around a doe-eyed child, is simply amazing. > > One of the underappreciated aspects of the INS raid in Miami was > what happened to the residents of the house behind the one where > the targeted child was living. Claiming that the action was > needed to protect the assault team attacking the private > residence listed in their "arrest warrant", the agents first > "secured" an entirely separate residence. > > As has become standard practice in America today, the heavily > armed storm troopers broke down the doors before dawn and > "neutralized" those inside. They dragged the manacled residents > out of their home and onto the lawn, forcing the terrified > captives to publicly prostrate themselves before the black-hooded > symbols of state violence. > > Just what heinous crime justified depriving these individuals of > their fundamental rights as freemen? What had they done to > deserve having their property destroyed and their privacy > violated, as well as being subjected to physical assault and > public humiliation by the agents of the state? > > The citizens who were rousted from their beds and prostrated on > their lawn while masked agents of the state trashed their home > hadn't committed a crime, let alone demonstrated that they posed > a danger to the public. There was no due process, no proof of > guilt before a jury of their peers. Incredibly, their sole > "crime" was the suspicion that they might exercise their > constitutional rights and fulfill their duties as citizens of a > free nation. > > The official spokesman at the scene explained that this raid on a > private residence was simply a precautionary measure. The police > suspected the individuals in the house might own guns. The > agents were simply making sure that the suspected guns couldn't > be used to resist the primary mission targeting the adjoining > private residence. These citizens were violently "neutralized" > because someone in the vast "law enforcement" bureaucracy thought > they *might* be willing and able to resist outrageous acts by > government agents. The government spokesman and the news media > both treated this justification as being perfectly reasonable. > > Our Constitution protects the rights of the people to both keep > and bear arms. In other times, the membership of all able-bodied > citizens in the unorganized national militia was recognized as > extending the right to be armed into a duty to be armed. These > innocent individuals were assaulted specifically because > government agents suspected they might be exercising their > constitutional right to keep and bear arms. > > Many reasonable people are outraged at the actions of the > government agents in Miami - regardless of their views on what > should be done with the child who is being used to distract our > attention. Our Declaration of Independence clearly states that > it is the duty of freemen to resist outrageous abuses of power by > government agents. These individuals were pre-emptively > "neutralized" because the INS suspected they might, as free > citizens, be sufficiently offended by the violations of law and > court orders the INS was intending to perpetrate next door, to > rise to the defense of the intended victims. The suspicion that > these individuals might do their duty as citizens became the > justification for the violation of their fundamental rights. > > Even if the targets of this intentional violence had been guilty > of some crime, the state is obligated to treat the accused as > innocent until proven guilty. The building entry and suppression > tactics they employed were guaranteed to at least cause property > damage and substantial physical discomfort for any citizens they > find inside. That is if the assault troops didn't murder the > innocent citizens outright as so often happens in these kinds of > paramilitary operations. The victims of this state violence > hadn't been charged with a crime when government agents deprived > them of their fundamental rights and destroyed their private > property. There was never any intention of respecting the > innocence of the targets of this violence. The specific intent > of the government agents was to inflict harm on individuals they > knew to be entirely innocent. > > There has been a lot of noise in the press about the political > damage that will result from the "mishandling" of the Elian > controversy. But just as after Ruby Ridge and Waco, while the > villains put on a show of embarrassment over the trivial issues > that have distracted the public's attention, the major crimes > they committed against the fundamental principles of freedom go > unnoticed. > > Did any of the citizens in Miami actually believe that the Waco > mass murderers had learned the errors of their ways and abandoned > violence as a means of imposing their will? Or did the > unpunished mass murders at Waco succeed in intimidating the > citizens in Miami into passively allowing their rights to be > violated out of a well founded fear of indiscriminate mass murder > by government storm troopers? > > I've already heard disquieting statements in the mainstream media > that since Waco demonstrated government agents would simply kill > anyone who resisted, the defense of freedom was no longer a valid > justification for the right to bear arms. It has even been > claimed that since the mere suspicion citizens might be armed > triggers such aggressive violence by government agents, a > "citizen" was safer not exercising his constitutional rights. At > the cost of a little contrived sadness over the "self-inflicted" > deaths at Waco, the storm troopers gained a powerful > psychological weapon to use against the freedom of all citizens. > > Building on the lessons of Waco we now have the lessons of > Miami. While the focus of public attention was distracted into > thinking the controversy was about the welfare of a child, the > nation was being taught that the courts had no power to restrain > the violence of the storm troopers. When the courts refused to > rubber-stamp their demands, the storm troopers simply resorted to > violence in order to impose their will on those who dared to > oppose them. And just as expected, while the storm troopers used > brute force to create the reality the courts had denied them, the > courts shuffled their papers and demonstrated that the law was > nothing but an empty sham - a useful tool for attacking the > rights of freemen, but utterly worthless in defending those > rights. > > Perhaps the most disturbing lesson we were taught in Miami is the > redefinition of citizenship. The exercise of a free citizen's > rights and duties was once a respected badge of honor. In Miami > our rulers demonstrated that even the suspicion of being an > honorable citizen is now considered sufficient probable cause for > a predawn assault by armed and armored storm troopers. In the > land of the formerly free, the exercise of freedom has been > perverted into an excuse to violently subjegate those who still > value their freedom. An "accidental" death at the hands of black > hooded killers who will never be held accountable for their > crimes awaits those unwilling to be slaves. > > Once again, those who masquerade as the opposition have been > making a lot of noise about "investigating" trivial distractions > - while ignoring the massive crimes being committed against the > fundamental principles of freedom. Once again the media is > gearing up to force feed sensationalized drivel to the public > until the unthinking masses get bored and tune out, totally > oblivious to those few voices sounding the alarm amidst the > cacophony of overhyped trivia. Once again Americans have become > obsessed with meaningless trivia while refusing to notice that > their fundamental rights are being stolen. > > -- > Kort E Patterson > http://www.hevanet.com/kort > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Perrine Subject: Elian's Illegitimacy a Legal Problem for Juan Miguel: Coulter Date: 02 May 2000 12:01:48 -0700 Elian's Illegitimacy a Legal Problem for Juan Miguel: Coulter http://64.29.200.227/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2000/5/1/134553 Nearly a month ago, NewsMax.com pointed out that when 6-year-old Cuban refugee Elian Gonzalez was born, his mother and father weren't even married. What's more, it's not as if his parents split up sometime after he was conceived. In fact, by the time Elian was born to Elisabeth Brotons-Rodriguez on December 6, 1993, she had been divorced from Juan Miguel Gonzalez for more than two and a half years. The couple split legally all the way back on May 13, 1991. Now, in her Town Hall.com column, impeachment superstar-lawyer Ann Coulter contends that the odd timing of Elian's birth could have a direct bearing on any legal claim Mr. Gonzalez might have over Elisabeth's son under U.S. law. "Elian was neither born nor conceived when Juan Miguel was married to his mother. Nor did the father ever rectify Elian's bastardy," Coulter notes. "Indeed, at common law, fathers had absolutely no rights with respect to any children they bore out of wedlock. Of course, we've come a long way since marriage was considered a consequential institution. But still: Even in the swinging, post-sexual revolution America, a father's legal rights to an illegitimate child remains a highly contentious, and prodigiously litigated, matter." Coulter points out that if Elian's case was treated like any other custody case, the Florida courts would decide "and Florida takes an especially dim view of the legal prerogatives of fathers who sire illegitimate children." Coulter doesn't even begin to explore some of the other odd details about Elian's birth, such as the fact that the birth certificate Juan Miguel showed U.S. immigration officials to establish paternity was issued in Havana on November 26, 1999 - just a day after he learned Elian's mother had drowned. (Miami Herald - Jan. 14, 2000) Not to mention questions about why Juan Miguel decided he wanted to have children with a woman whom he'd not only divorced long ago, but who had suffered seven previous miscarriages over the course of their relationship. Juan Miguel's story, and apparently he's sticking to it, is that he and his ex-wife decided to try one more time for kids while he was "in between relationships" with other women, according to an early Newsweek report. He and Elisabeth went to a fertility clinic in Havana and, voila, Elian was conceived. Despite the successful birth, the couple did not remarry. No one has asked Mr. Gonzalez how he was able to afford expensive fertility treatments for his ex-wife on his hotel doorman's salary of $8.00 a month. Or does impoverished Cuba encourage unmarried parents to usher yet more hungry mouths into the world by providing such services for free? Could Castro really be offering free fertility treatments when Cuba's health care system requires surgical patients to supply their own bedsheets, according to at least one reporter who strayed from the official tour of Elian's hometown. No wonder the Clinton administration didn't want to wait for the courts to begin their fact-finding process in the case of little Elian Gonzalez. Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 _________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: The U.S. Press Sells Out (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 14:29:01 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- The U.S. Press Sells Out by Thomas Lipscomb Thursday, April 27, 2000 http://intellectualcapital.com/issues/issue369/item9165.asp It's official. With the Elian Gonzalez case the formerly free press of the United States has finally become a full-time propaganda agent of the Clinton administration. Only a month ago, the press chose to ignore an assault by Secret Service agents on 10 members of the press presuming to ask Senate candidate Hillary Clinton questions during the St. Patrick's Day Parade. Newsday columnist and editorial board member Marie Cocco attacked an Internet reporter for simply repeating an account by a WABC cameraman present. This week Newsday's parent, The Los Angeles Times, carried a puff piece on the Secret Service headlined "Candidates and Their Protectors" and omitted the incident entirely. If the press is willing to ignore attacks by Clinton's police on its own members these days, why should we expect them to care about their federal assaults on ordinary citizens? Lone voices in the wilderness As the Elian Gonzalez case heated up, press sympathy for President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno totally overwhelmed news judgment. Diane Sawyer ran an "ABC Good Morning America" interview with Elian where she carefully left out the most newsworthy part -- his appeal to stay in the United States. Then NBC's "Today Show" decided to run as news the amateur-night psychic ramblings of a Hillary Clinton mediflunky. The New York Times buried one of the most remarkable news photos of the past half-century: Associated Press photographer Alan Diaz's picture of a screaming INS agent in full SWAT armor pointing a loaded submachine gun toward Elian Gonzalez and his rescuer, fisherman Donato Dalrymple. It ran a smaller black-and-white version on page 16. Its front page carried a full-color picture of a happy face reunion provided by Clinton and Castro's shyster Gregory Craig next to a fan-magazine article about Janet Reno's "Difficult Call." One can imagine what a real newsman like Ben Hecht or Murray Kempton would have made of Reno's latest "save the children" foray. Janet Reno's concern for her "tired" Fed hordes besieging the Branch Davidian families at Waco led to a massacre and the incineration of 30 children. This time she got tired herself while lying all night and only kidnapped one child with a fraudulent search-and-seizure warrant --- so it is good news. A Washington Post Easter editorial stated happily that "[t]he government did the right thing" and The Chicago Tribune cheered: "Well done, Ms. Reno," while its columnist Eric Zorn stated that Clinton's gestapo action "made me proud." In short, the U.S. press now accepts the classic Marxist principle that the end justifies the means -- as long as it agrees with the end. There were a few sour notes from cantankerous columnists. George Will stated: "The climate for this excessive use of force was set by a drumbeat from this administration echoed by disgraceful journalism." The irascible Christopher Hitchens pointed out the real danger under Clinton: "the transformation of the American democracy, the American republic, into a banana republic." Looking the other way But the degree of complicity of the vast majority of the American press in supporting the Clinton regime is clear from their wide acceptance of The Nation's Bruce Shapiro's lie: "And when Lazaro Gonzalez's Miami handlers published that alarming photo, Juan Miguel Gonzalez responded within hours with photos of Elian reunited with his family, a smile on his face." In this classic agit-prop job, a press photo released by America's most respected news service suddenly becomes a PR manipulation, while a reunion shot provided by a Clinton- Castro lawyer that no member of the press witnessed is treated as authoritative. Not surprisingly, after his most recent stay in the Clinton's Lincoln rent-a-bedroom a few weeks ago, big donor Rick Kaplan, the head of CNN's news division, chose to treat the Diaz photo as just a "public relations problem" for the administration that had nothing to do with constitutional guarantees against unlawful search and seizure. CNN's Judy Woodruff went further and passed on dark hints about "guns" from Reno and her assistant attorney general Eric Holder, asserting "a group of armed men" were in the house right next door to the Gonzalez residence. Finally Woodruff stopped, after she was confronted on air by a reporter who pointed out that none of the dozens of journalists on the scene had seen any sign of so much as a pea shooter. During the attack on the Gonzalez household, the Federal goon squad hit an NBC soundman in the head with a gun and kicked a NBC cameraman in the stomach to prevent them from recording the scene and this, too, the press treated with almost total indifference. The most outrageous federal government violation of the rights of private citizens since Waco received the unconditional support of America's giant media companies from Time-Warner to The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, The Los Angeles Times and the networks. After the fact, they chose to run cosmetic handouts from government agencies on what actually happened in Miami rather than do any reporting of their own. The media again passed on the lie about "guns" and found combat police operations experts to compliment the government raid, when the real issue was whether the raid itself was appropriate. The Washington Post's David Vise disgraced himself in his account of Reno's "sensitivity" to First amendment issues in allowing press coverage while her goons beat up an NBC TV crew and she shredded the Fourth amendment. Media companies have already grown used to practicing a little constructive censorship on their own behalf. Why not protect an administration that has delivered them billions in free bandwidth confiscated from America's citizens, and protected them from competing low-power stations? Media critic Steve Brill, and the publisher of the for-profit Brill's Content, recently warned that the press's problem with credibility is growing as news divisions slant coverage to protect the mega- conglomerates' bottom lines. As an example, he cited a Disney/ABC 20/20 story about problems at a Disney theme park that never aired. But, as usual, Brill chose not to see the larger issue when it might embarrass his buddies in the Clinton junta. Who are these guys anyway? The larger issue could not be more clear. Consider that CNN's Atlanta headquarters became a training ground for Defense Department spy-war operatives; or look at ABC's disgraceful Leonardo DeCaprio "interview" of Clinton for Earth Day; or re- read Salon's Daniel Forbes' exposure of NBC and Fox writing anti-drug scripts of top entertainment shows for the approval of White House Drug Czar Barry McCaffrey in exchange for millions of classic payola ad revenue kickbacks (print news organizations like US News World Report, Parade, and USA Today's Weekend and even The Sporting News were doing exactly the same thing with news features). What does it matter anyway? As former MTV celebrity suck-up Tabitha Soren put it peevishly in a New York Times op-ed: "[F] ighting to keep the distinction between news and entertainment is, after all, pretty self-serving for journalists." If few journalists seem to be interested any more in a little thing like the distinction between news and entertainment, why worry about pure government propaganda? During the impeachment hearings the press kept repeating the Clinton line that lying about sex did not matter. One of Clinton's former law students, Judge Susan Webber Wright, disagreed and nailed him publicly for perjury in a contempt- of-court decision that may eventually disbar him. Now Florida's respected Democratic Sen. Bob Graham -- a "short- list" candidate as Al Gore's running mate -- states unequivocally that Clinton lied to him in promising to avoid a midnight raid. Old Reno friend and Clinton supporter Aaron Podhurst tells us Reno lied to him, when he was negotiating with Elian's Miami relatives, stringing him along on the phone while her Gestapo broke the family's door down. And on Easter, Reno's deputy Eric Holder got caught on camera lying to NBC's Tim Russert during a previous appearance on "Meet the Press" as he denied that there would be a raid. But even after Clinton's outrageous lies about the "nerve gas factory" in the Sudan and the fake "genocide" in Kosovo, the U.S. media still prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the lies of the most corrupt and power-abusing administration in American history, rather than clear statements by decent Democrats like Bob Thomas and Aaron Podhurst In the Gonzalez affair Clinton and Reno ran roughshod over their constitutional commitments while loudly proclaiming, "It is the law." But for the first time in history, this year the justices of the Supreme Court, who know something about the law, failed to attend a State of the Union message. Still, at the spring dinner of Radio and Television Journalists in Washington, America's first impeached president received a standing ovation from an adoring crowd supposedly dedicated to the truth, if not the law. We might well ask ourselves, as Butch Cassidy put it: "Who are those guys, anyway?" The Orlando Sentinel's Peter Brown has just completed a thoughtful study of today's journalists. He found that they have become less and less like normal middle-class Americans. The evidence of just how out of touch they are with America in their taste, lifestyle, opinions and even net worth is shocking. But while the media favor the federal government's long-form census for the rest of us, somehow no one has ever gotten around to a long-form census of just who makes up the press today. The price of distortion Now that Clinton's media allies are completing their outrageously distorted coverage of the Elian Gonzalez case, their polling reveals that the majority of Americans agree with Clinton's action. That certainly wouldn't surprise one master politician who understood how to move the public as well as anyone today: In this and like communities, public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment nothing can fail; without it, nothing can succeed. Consequently, he who moulds public sentiment goes deeper than he who enacts statutes or pronounces decisions.-- Abraham Lincoln It is time we learn a lot more about who "molds public sentiment" today. Thomas H. Lipscomb is the director of the Center for the Digital Future in New York. An an editor and publisher for many years, most recently as head of Times Books, he is also the founder of two public companies in digital technology. He is also a regular commentator for IntellectualCapital.com. His email address is tom@digitalfuture.org. Jack Perrine | Athena Programming | 626-798-6574 _________________| 1175 N Altadena Dr | ____________ Jack@Minerva.com | Pasadena CA 91107 | FAX-398-8620 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: Officers leave Army, cite defective and disloyal leadership.. (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 15:01:18 -0500 (CDT) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Younger officers bail out of Army Complaints over leadership prompt sharp internal debate By Thomas E. Ricks WASHINGTON POST WASHINGTON, April 17 - Dissatisfied younger Army officers are leaving the service in droves, worrying the service's leadership and provoking intense debates about the problem at military bases across the nation. 'Senior leaders will throw subordinates under the bus in a heartbeat to protect or advance their careers.' - SUMMARY OF OFFICERS' COMMENTS TO UNDERSTAND WHY so many captains, in particular, are bailing out after five to 10 years in the military, Army Chief of Staff Gen. Eric K. Shinseki recently commissioned a survey of 760 Army officers studying at the service's mid-career Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kan. The resulting reports, which have not been made public, are startling in their denunciations of the Army's current leadership. "Top-down loyalty doesn't exist," says a summary of the officers' comments. "Senior leaders will throw subordinates under the bus in a heartbeat to protect or advance their careers." Many of the surveyed officers, mainly majors and a few lieutenant colonels, were upset by what they see as the Army leadership's exaggeration of the combat readiness of the service. "Readiness reporting - absolute lies!" says the summary, which for the last 10 days has been rocketing around the U.S. military by e-mail. "Young officers are getting out because they feel out of touch with leadership," the Fort Leavenworth study concludes. "Many believe there needs to be a clean sweep of senior leadership" - a powerful recommendation in any organization, but especially in one as hierarchical as the military. "They are pretty stark," said a Pentagon official who has reviewed 16 of the 64 reports written by instructors at Fort Leavenworth summarizing the views of their students after discussions in study groups of a dozen to 15 officers. "The overriding theme is that there is no trust in the senior leadership." TOP OFFICERS SLAM SERVICE The intensity of opinions is striking because those selected by the Army for study at the Command and General Staff College are considered to be the top 50 percent of their "class" of officers. The alienation of younger officers has become so worrisome that the Army plans to announce today that it is forming two blue-ribbon panels to study the problem. "The leadership is taking it seriously," said Brig. Gen. John R. Wood, deputy commandant of the Command and General Staff College, who is assembling the panels. "I have a very clear charter to go after the issues in a constructive way and take them seriously." It isn't just grumbling that troubles the Army. Junior officers are voting with their feet. In 1989, at the end of the Cold War, 6.7 percent of Army captains left the service voluntarily. In 1999, that number had climbed to 10.6 percent - a 58 percent increase. When asked about their intentions, about as many lieutenants and captains now say they intend to leave the service as to stay, a huge difference from 10 years ago, when only 22 percent intended to leave and 52 percent planned to make a career in the service. The attrition rate among captains is particularly significant because that rank often comes with the first command of a company, and it is usually considered one of the most enjoyable in any military career - the sort of key job done by the Tom Hanks character in the movie "Saving Private Ryan." There are 16,000 captains in the Army, compared to about 300 generals. "Captains are not only critical in and of themselves, but because they are numerically dominant in the officer corps," said retired Army Col. Joseph J. Collins, now a scholar at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "Small increases in attrition are related to large numbers of officers." LONG LINE OF TROUBLES The spike in officer losses is only the latest personnel problem to befall the Army. It comes on top of a lingering recruiting crisis. This year the Army expects to fall about 5,000 short of its recruiting goal, a spokesman said Friday. In recent years, the Army has sought to bandage this problem by persuading more people already in the service to stay on. But the increase in attrition and low morale of students at Fort Leavenworth suggest that this option is eroding. Also, specialists in military personnel issues say that historically, officers have expressed greater satisfaction than enlisted troops, raising the question of whether enlisted satisfaction - and so retention - may be heading for a drop. Junior officers are voting with their feet. The Army in recent years has tended to blame many of its personnel problems on the hot American economy. While the Fort Leavenworth officers agreed that the strong job market accounts for part of the problem, they also pointed to internal issues. "Many leave because the Army is 'no fun' any more," says one of the reports. This may have something to do with the Army's new missions in the post-Cold War world. "Peacekeeping - Not why we joined the Army!" one Fort Leavenworth study group said emphatically. But the survey also found dissatisfaction with the way the Army has handled such missions, particularly its emphasis on minimizing casualties. One group of Fort Leavenworth majors said that in Bosnia, "a real difference could have been made by soldiers out in the streets meeting and influencing the populace, rather than sitting on a base hunkered behind sandbags." OFFICERS: STOP BLAMING CLINTON The survey also indicates that some younger officers are tired of hearing generals blame the Army's troubles on the Clinton administration's interventionist policies in the Balkans and Haiti. "Leaders need to stop blaming the NCA [National Command Authority] for our deployments and adjust what they can control," the summary says. The administration also came in for criticism. One group complained that the "perceived lack of respect of the Administration for the military is debilitating." But the dominant theme of the reports is lack of faith in the Army's top generals. "No one thinks a service chief would have the guts to take a stand, much less resign, on a matter of principle," says one report. Unusually, one study group took aim at a specific general - Henry H. Shelton, the top officer in the U.S. military. "Some students wondered if the CJCS [Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff] has gone from being a war-fighter to a yes-man?" the report says. Many of the surveyed officers, mainly majors and a few lieutenant colonels, were upset by what they see as the Army leadership' s exaggeration of the combat readiness of the service. Asked for comment, Shelton's spokesman, Navy Capt. Steve Pietropali, said, "I think that anyone who knows Shelton . . . wouldn't ever ask that question. I don't think you can point to a single instance and say, 'Here's the chairman caving to the administration.'" The teachers at Leavenworth who conducted the discussions and wrote the reports occasionally seemed shocked by the intensity of the responses. "The forum quickly broke down to a quite negative, verbal free-for-all," one wrote. Another teacher said of the 13 Army officers in his study group: "Virtually every officer was negative." But the results rang true with officers at other bases who were asked about them. One captain said he wasn't familiar with the Fort Leavenworth survey but was painfully aware of the problem of good officers leaving the Army. He noted that two of the best captains he knows at his base have recently decided to get out - one a Special Forces officer qualified as a Ranger, the other a West Point graduate who serves in the armored cavalry. "A lot of it has to do with personal reasons, like dissatisfied spouses," he said. "Also, I think a lot of it has to do with the perception, right or wrong, that the Army has turned into a politically correct social organization, instead of a war-fighting organization." Asked to explain that analysis, he said that, "Because of gender integration and homosexuals in the military, there is the feeling that being a soldier is becoming less macho, less soldierly. Indeed, one of the Leavenworth reports specifically complains that, "Political correctness reigns; there are too many programs that appear to be in response to media scrutiny," such as, it said, training to be sensitive to gay men and lesbians. In addition, the survey reported that young officers are getting out because their spouses are unhappy with Army life. Many of the Leavenworth majors said that the Army has failed to adjust to the two-career marriage as the norm in American life. Today's Army spouses dislike moving every couple of years, sometimes to isolated posts where job opportunities are limited, while their soldier spouses frequently are absent on peacekeeping deployments. "Professional satisfaction is a huge problem," said Collins, who last year conducted an extensive survey of military attitudes. "On leadership, everywhere we went we heard complaints about 'doing more with less,' micromanagement and zero defects mentality," he said. Responses to the survey in the rest of the Army were mixed. "I don't want to minimize it, but I don't know if there is that much new there," said Col. Edwin F. Veiga, an Army spokesman. "I've been in the Army 25 years, and I've heard this sort of thing before." But a colonel who commands an Army brigade disagreed. "There's some whining in it, but there's also a lot of truth," he said. This colonel, who asked not to be identified, noted that in the last week he had received four copies of the Leavenworth survey by e-mail from peers in the Army, and that his subordinate officers had seen it, too. "I told my captains that the first thing you have to do to make the organization recover is to get out of denial," he said. "I think that's what we're doing here. I see this as the first step in getting healthy." =A9 2000 The Washington Post Company - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Fw: No One Told Us What Happened to Elian's NEIGHBORS... (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 14:07:32 -0700 Some serious lawyer like Larry Clayman needs to get involved. For this, he will need contributions, real serious $. Anyone know Klayman? Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Larry Ball > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 10:59 AM > To: roc@lists.xmission.com > Cc: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Fw: No One Told Us What Happened to Elian's NEIGHBORS... > (fwd) > > > Good post, Bill. I, too, think this outrageous. Question: What > can we do about > it? > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > Bill Vance wrote: > > > On May 2, The McGehee Zone wrote: > > > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kort E Patterson > > To: Intertel Top1 list ; Oregon Mensa email list > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:08 AM > > Subject: The Lessons of Miami > > > > Magicians have long known how useful it can be to distract the > > attention of the audience away from what they're really doing. > > Unfortunately, so have politicians and propagandists. The > > magnitude of real crimes that the American public is willing to > > overlook when distracted by a sordid sex scandal, or a soap opera > > spun around a doe-eyed child, is simply amazing. > > > > One of the underappreciated aspects of the INS raid in Miami was > > what happened to the residents of the house behind the one where > > the targeted child was living. Claiming that the action was > > needed to protect the assault team attacking the private > > residence listed in their "arrest warrant", the agents first > > "secured" an entirely separate residence. > > > > As has become standard practice in America today, the heavily > > armed storm troopers broke down the doors before dawn and > > "neutralized" those inside. They dragged the manacled residents > > out of their home and onto the lawn, forcing the terrified > > captives to publicly prostrate themselves before the black-hooded > > symbols of state violence. > > > > Just what heinous crime justified depriving these individuals of > > their fundamental rights as freemen? What had they done to > > deserve having their property destroyed and their privacy > > violated, as well as being subjected to physical assault and > > public humiliation by the agents of the state? > > > > The citizens who were rousted from their beds and prostrated on > > their lawn while masked agents of the state trashed their home > > hadn't committed a crime, let alone demonstrated that they posed > > a danger to the public. There was no due process, no proof of > > guilt before a jury of their peers. Incredibly, their sole > > "crime" was the suspicion that they might exercise their > > constitutional rights and fulfill their duties as citizens of a > > free nation. > > > > The official spokesman at the scene explained that this raid on a > > private residence was simply a precautionary measure. The police > > suspected the individuals in the house might own guns. The > > agents were simply making sure that the suspected guns couldn't > > be used to resist the primary mission targeting the adjoining > > private residence. These citizens were violently "neutralized" > > because someone in the vast "law enforcement" bureaucracy thought > > they *might* be willing and able to resist outrageous acts by > > government agents. The government spokesman and the news media > > both treated this justification as being perfectly reasonable. > > > > Our Constitution protects the rights of the people to both keep > > and bear arms. In other times, the membership of all able-bodied > > citizens in the unorganized national militia was recognized as > > extending the right to be armed into a duty to be armed. These > > innocent individuals were assaulted specifically because > > government agents suspected they might be exercising their > > constitutional right to keep and bear arms. > > > > Many reasonable people are outraged at the actions of the > > government agents in Miami - regardless of their views on what > > should be done with the child who is being used to distract our > > attention. Our Declaration of Independence clearly states that > > it is the duty of freemen to resist outrageous abuses of power by > > government agents. These individuals were pre-emptively > > "neutralized" because the INS suspected they might, as free > > citizens, be sufficiently offended by the violations of law and > > court orders the INS was intending to perpetrate next door, to > > rise to the defense of the intended victims. The suspicion that > > these individuals might do their duty as citizens became the > > justification for the violation of their fundamental rights. > > > > Even if the targets of this intentional violence had been guilty > > of some crime, the state is obligated to treat the accused as > > innocent until proven guilty. The building entry and suppression > > tactics they employed were guaranteed to at least cause property > > damage and substantial physical discomfort for any citizens they > > find inside. That is if the assault troops didn't murder the > > innocent citizens outright as so often happens in these kinds of > > paramilitary operations. The victims of this state violence > > hadn't been charged with a crime when government agents deprived > > them of their fundamental rights and destroyed their private > > property. There was never any intention of respecting the > > innocence of the targets of this violence. The specific intent > > of the government agents was to inflict harm on individuals they > > knew to be entirely innocent. > > > > There has been a lot of noise in the press about the political > > damage that will result from the "mishandling" of the Elian > > controversy. But just as after Ruby Ridge and Waco, while the > > villains put on a show of embarrassment over the trivial issues > > that have distracted the public's attention, the major crimes > > they committed against the fundamental principles of freedom go > > unnoticed. > > > > Did any of the citizens in Miami actually believe that the Waco > > mass murderers had learned the errors of their ways and abandoned > > violence as a means of imposing their will? Or did the > > unpunished mass murders at Waco succeed in intimidating the > > citizens in Miami into passively allowing their rights to be > > violated out of a well founded fear of indiscriminate mass murder > > by government storm troopers? > > > > I've already heard disquieting statements in the mainstream media > > that since Waco demonstrated government agents would simply kill > > anyone who resisted, the defense of freedom was no longer a valid > > justification for the right to bear arms. It has even been > > claimed that since the mere suspicion citizens might be armed > > triggers such aggressive violence by government agents, a > > "citizen" was safer not exercising his constitutional rights. At > > the cost of a little contrived sadness over the "self-inflicted" > > deaths at Waco, the storm troopers gained a powerful > > psychological weapon to use against the freedom of all citizens. > > > > Building on the lessons of Waco we now have the lessons of > > Miami. While the focus of public attention was distracted into > > thinking the controversy was about the welfare of a child, the > > nation was being taught that the courts had no power to restrain > > the violence of the storm troopers. When the courts refused to > > rubber-stamp their demands, the storm troopers simply resorted to > > violence in order to impose their will on those who dared to > > oppose them. And just as expected, while the storm troopers used > > brute force to create the reality the courts had denied them, the > > courts shuffled their papers and demonstrated that the law was > > nothing but an empty sham - a useful tool for attacking the > > rights of freemen, but utterly worthless in defending those > > rights. > > > > Perhaps the most disturbing lesson we were taught in Miami is the > > redefinition of citizenship. The exercise of a free citizen's > > rights and duties was once a respected badge of honor. In Miami > > our rulers demonstrated that even the suspicion of being an > > honorable citizen is now considered sufficient probable cause for > > a predawn assault by armed and armored storm troopers. In the > > land of the formerly free, the exercise of freedom has been > > perverted into an excuse to violently subjegate those who still > > value their freedom. An "accidental" death at the hands of black > > hooded killers who will never be held accountable for their > > crimes awaits those unwilling to be slaves. > > > > Once again, those who masquerade as the opposition have been > > making a lot of noise about "investigating" trivial distractions > > - while ignoring the massive crimes being committed against the > > fundamental principles of freedom. Once again the media is > > gearing up to force feed sensationalized drivel to the public > > until the unthinking masses get bored and tune out, totally > > oblivious to those few voices sounding the alarm amidst the > > cacophony of overhyped trivia. Once again Americans have become > > obsessed with meaningless trivia while refusing to notice that > > their fundamental rights are being stolen. > > > > -- > > Kort E Patterson > > http://www.hevanet.com/kort > > > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message > ------------------------] > > > > -- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! > ***** RKBA! > > > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he > who hath no > > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment > and buy a > > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > > > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > > > - > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Fw: No One Told Us What Happened to Elian's NEIGHBORS... (fwd) Date: 02 May 2000 13:26:23 PST On May 02, Larry Ball wrote: >Good post, Bill. I, too, think this outrageous. Question: What can we do about >it? > >Larry Ball >lball@inetnebr.com Well, with an Administration/Legal System that lets them get away with Murder, I'd say that it's time to start handing them their noses when they stick them in where they aren't welcome..... -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: The Lessons of Miami Date: 02 May 2000 22:40:14 -0500 >On May 2, The McGehee Zone wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: Kort E Patterson >To: Intertel Top1 list ; Oregon Mensa email list > >Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 8:08 AM >Subject: The Lessons of Miami > > ... > >One of the underappreciated aspects of the INS raid in Miami was >what happened to the residents of the house behind the one where >the targeted child was living. Claiming that the action was >needed to protect the assault team attacking the private >residence listed in their "arrest warrant", the agents first >"secured" an entirely separate residence. > > >Just what heinous crime justified depriving these individuals of >their fundamental rights as freemen? What had they done to >deserve having their property destroyed and their privacy >violated, as well as being subjected to physical assault and >public humiliation by the agents of the state? > If this is true, what is more to the point is that this is an absolutely clear violation of the 4th amendment. The search and siezure of this other resident was not only ureasonably conducted, there apparently was no warrent. Absent direct evidence of a crime in progress, the police, even federal ones, can't just break into private homes cause they think it's a good idea. Now they could have neutralised the home by surrounding it with officers, they certainly seemed to have plenty about. Everyone involved, from those conducting this secondary raid, right on up to Janet Reno and her boss, no not Hillary, her other boss, should be impeached forthwith. I can think of no better definition of a high crime or (at least a) misdomeaner than a willful violation of accepted, let alone indended, Constitutional strictures. If Bill and Janet don't care about the 4th amendment, what makes folks think they care about Amendments XX and XXII, particularly the former. Will he/they actually leave office at noon on the 20th day of January 2001? Or will they find some reason to stay, "for the children" of course. > > >The citizens who were rousted from their beds and prostrated on >their lawn while masked agents of the state trashed their home >hadn't committed a crime, let alone demonstrated that they posed >a danger to the public. There was no due process, no proof of >guilt before a jury of their peers. Incredibly, their sole >"crime" was the suspicion that they might exercise their >constitutional rights and fulfill their duties as citizens of a >free nation. No warrant implies that there was not even an allegation of a crime. Even if the crime were the catch all "conspiracy" a warrant must be sought and issued. > >The official spokesman at the scene explained that this raid on a >private residence was simply a precautionary measure. The police >suspected the individuals in the house might own guns. The >agents were simply making sure that the suspected guns couldn't >be used to resist the primary mission targeting the adjoining >private residence. These citizens were violently "neutralized" >because someone in the vast "law enforcement" bureaucracy thought >they *might* be willing and able to resist outrageous acts by >government agents. The government spokesman and the news media >both treated this justification as being perfectly reasonable. > >Even if the targets of this intentional violence had been guilty >of some crime, the state is obligated to treat the accused as >innocent until proven guilty. The building entry and suppression >tactics they employed were guaranteed to at least cause property >damage and substantial physical discomfort for any citizens they Pretty much the defination of an "unreasonable search", even if a warrant had been issued. And surely the magistrate that issued the one to seize Elian would have issued one for the other house if there had actually been any concrete evidence that there was a "conspiracy to obstruct" afoot. >Building on the lessons of Waco we now have the lessons of >Miami. While the focus of public attention was distracted into >thinking the controversy was about the welfare of a child, the >nation was being taught that the courts had no power to restrain >the violence of the storm troopers. When the courts refused to >rubber-stamp their demands, the storm troopers simply resorted to >violence in order to impose their will on those who dared to >oppose them. And just as expected, while the storm troopers used >brute force to create the reality the courts had denied them, the >courts shuffled their papers and demonstrated that the law was >nothing but an empty sham - a useful tool for attacking the >rights of freemen, but utterly worthless in defending those >rights. > >Perhaps the most disturbing lesson we were taught in Miami is the >redefinition of citizenship. The exercise of a free citizen's >rights and duties was once a respected badge of honor. In Miami >our rulers demonstrated that even the suspicion of being an >honorable citizen is now considered sufficient probable cause for >a predawn assault by armed and armored storm troopers. In the >land of the formerly free, the exercise of freedom has been >perverted into an excuse to violently subjegate those who still >value their freedom. An "accidental" death at the hands of black >hooded killers who will never be held accountable for their >crimes awaits those unwilling to be slaves. ... >- -- >Kort E Patterson >http://www.hevanet.com/kort The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: [slick-d] Re: [slickmisc] NBC Cameraman Hospitalized After Beating (fwd) Date: 03 May 2000 10:09:55 PST Aren't all these deaths becomminf just a little _too_ convenient? I wonder how many witnesses, "Big Al" Capone, "lost", begore they seriously went after him..... On May 03, D. D. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Good questions about the sheriff's, but who cares about the Bexar county sheriff when the Waco holocaust happened in Mclennen County ? Sheriff Jack Harwell was being duped by the Fed's and he found out after they had already run roughshod over him. His entire department was overrun by federal insubordination, so much so he had no idea as to what he was to do. He just died here recently when it was found out he was going to testify for the Davidians in their 'wrongful death suit'. Rick RichSlick@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/1/2000 12:54:27 AM Central Daylight Time, > rlpartridge@juno.com writes: > > << Where was the sheriff of Boundary County, Idaho when the > Weavers were attacked? > Where was the Bexar County, Texas Sheriff when the > Davidians were massacred? > It would be well for us all to certify that our own local sheriff > is ready and willing to protect us. Unfortunately, although the > duty of a sheriff in Utah says that he "will make all arrests" > and that he may use as many inhabitants of the county as > necessary to carry out his duty, the state constitutional > prohibition against bringing armed bodies of men into the > state for purposes of law enforcement was removed by > cunning and deceit in 1993. > (What might they have planned for us?) >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: Do You Live In A "Red Area"? (fwd) Date: 04 May 2000 06:58:37 PST On May 03, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] SENT FYI/// In my opinion Buchanan, Bush and Gore do not want you to know to much about BIO DIVERSITY. You can see the maps at http://www.collins2000.org. They are for real. Oh Isn't Bush part of the Royal Family? Lyons. Just curious.. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >From: bobworn@aol.com >Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 14:06:09 EDT >Reply-To: texas_net@egroups.com >Subject: Do You Live In A "Red Area"? > > >In a message dated 5/1/00 3:58:44 PM, btw777@if.rmci.net writes: > >< > > >The United Nations Convention on Biodiversity agreed to set aside areas > >of the united States for rewilding, and to remove all human habitation > >and all non native animals and livestock from these areas. This means no > >homes, no farming, ranching, lumbering, mining, grazing or hunting. You > >will note at the "MapWild" website, that the areas in red are to be > >"rewilded. The covert UN plan is that present inhabitants will be > >removed by force if necessary. Clinton's Heritage Rivers Plan is an > >integral part of the UN Biodiversity Project. > > > >It is noted that the Rockefellers, Ted Turner, the British Royal Family, > >and others have bought up large tracts of land in the Westert States. > >Buffalo herds, elk, deer, and antelope are being raised with a view of > >releasing them into the areas designated in RED. Wolves, grizzlies, and > >cougars are being imported. Ranchers and their livestock are beginning > >to be moved out. The Globalists plan to arrange for a split of the > >conservative vote, as Pat Buchanan runs for president on the Reform > >Party ticket, so that the Environmentalist candidate, Al Gore, will > >become the next president. He will move out the population and rewild > >these areas. This removal will begin this year and accelerate in 2001 > >and 2002. Note that large portions of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and the > >west coast states have extensive set asides. The main crop growing areas > >of the US are included. This will increase our dependence upon foreign > >markets which is the goal of NAFTA and GATT. > > > >Americans may soon find themselves in a world of trouble. [See the > >proceedings of Gorbachev's STATE OF THE WORLD FORUM FOR GLOBAL > >GOVERNANCE, 1996.] There are rumors that the elderly, the disabled, and > >other "useless eaters" will be terminated, and that those physically > >able to work in mines and on farms will be taken to labor camps! > > > >It looks as though a vote for George W. Bush, of dubious relationship to > >the NWO, may be our only hope of avoiding tragedy. > > > >Doc [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: ALERT: Is Your Doctor A Spy? (fwd) Date: 04 May 2000 06:55:53 PST On May 03, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -------- Original Message -------- --------- Forwarded message ---------- ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization Is Your Doctor A Spy? Anti-self defense lobbyists have enlisted family-practice physicians and pediatricians into collecting firearms ownership data. Doctors have been receiving literature urging them to ask their patients a lot of detailed questions about firearms ownership. We received a first-hand report from an ardent JPFO supporter who recently underwent this very type of probing by his doctor. During a physical examination in April 2000, as part of obtaining a "medical history," the doctor asked the patient: * Do you have any guns? * If so, how many guns do you have? * Where are they located? * Where do you store the guns? * How much ammunition do you keep? This line of questioning presents three dangers. First, the "public health" argument for victim disarmament has successfully filtered from the lobbyists down to actual practitioners. Some doctors actually believe that firearms are dangerous like an open jar of smallpox bacillus. Second, patients generally trust their doctors and will submit to these intrusive questions. Not only that, many patients will think the questions are proper and justified ... because their doctor asked them. Our JPFO supporter refused to answer most of these questions -- but many other patients will simply comply. Third, although medical records are supposed to be confidential, that can all change in a heartbeat. There have been repeated moves in Congress to mandate a universal medical health system, or at least a universal medical identification chip. The chip would contain all of a person's medical records. In both plans the patient's medical data becomes part of a national data base. When doctors collect firearms ownership data, they are helping to build a national gun owner identification system. Even now senior citizens and others using Medicare and Medicaid are subject to having their medical records reviewed by government agents. Our JPFO supporter said "no" to this doctor's intrusive questioning, and asked why the doctor was asking all of these questions. The doctor said it was something the American Medical Association was now pushing. Our JPFO supporter complained to the hospital whose spokesperson said that the firearms questions were not hospital policy and that they would investigate the matter. What you can do: (1) Tell everyone you know to refuse to answer doctors' questions about personal firearms ownership -- even if they don't own a firearm. Doctors and other health care professionals have no business asking such questions, period. (2) If your doctor asks questions about your firearms ownership, ask why the doctor is asking, and then report the matter as an invasion of privacy to the hospital. (3) Encourage doctors to contact and receive information from: (A) Dr. Edgar Suter, Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research http://www.dipr.org Article: Guns in the Medical Literature: A Failure of Peer Review (B) Dr. Timothy Wheeler, Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership Book: Firearms: A Handbook for Health Professionals. http://www.claremont.org/1_drgo.cfm (C) Dr. Miguel Faria, Association of American Physicians and Surgeons http://www.haciendapub.com Article: Docs, Guns & the CDC Subscribe to The Medical Sentinel (912) 757-9873 The Liberty Crew [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] Orwell at Sandia (fwd) Date: 04 May 2000 08:55:29 PST On May 4, shezza@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] If this isn't Orwellian, I don't know what is! "All animals are created=20 equal...but some are more equal than others." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_fosterj_news/20000504_xnfoj_christians= .sh tml Quotes from the article:=20 "In short," the statement continues, "homosexuals have received special=20 rights at Sandia, while Christian employees have been denied equal=20 treatment."=20 ------ "Despite paying lip service to non-discrimination on the basis of religion,= =20 Sandia's policy is discriminatory against religion on its face," Crampton=20 said. "It is an insult not only to believers in God, but to believers in=20 freedom everywhere," he added.=20 ------ Since officially recognizing the homosexual employee group, Sandia employee= s=20 have been subjected to annual "Coming Out Day" celebrations and "diversity= =20 training," in which they are encouraged to accept and respect homosexuals.= =20 -------- Some employees have even been asked to remove photos of their wives and=20 children, because they offend homosexuals, who are not allowed to marry and= =20 feel pressure not to publicize their own intimate relationships.=20 --- -- TESTING THE FAITH=20 Christians sue lab for discrimination=20 Accuse Sandia of giving special rights to 'gays,' denying believers equal=20 treatment=20 --- -- By Julie Foster =A9 2000 WorldNetDaily.com=20 A group of Christians have sued their employer, Sandia National Laboratorie= s,=20 charging the company with denying the group equal rights and privileges giv= en=20 to homosexual employees.=20 The suit was filed by the American Family Association in New Mexico's feder= al=20 district court Monday in Albuquerque on behalf of the Christian group.=20 As part of its equal employment opportunity policy, Sandia officially=20 recognized the Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual Networking Group, giving the group acce= ss=20 to company "funding, administrative assistance and use of company facilitie= s=20 and communication channels," according to Sandia's "Guidelines for Human=20 Resources."=20 WorldNetDaily obtained the document, which declares Sandia's policy regardi= ng=20 treatment of groups not protected by equal employment opportunity laws.=20 Wording of the policy specifically excludes religious groups.=20 "Our policy is to meet the letter, intent, and spirit of all applicable equ= al=20 employment opportunity laws and regulations," the document states. "There a= re=20 two legally protected groups under EEO national or state law for which ther= e=20 is no affirmative action legal requirement. The groups are people over 40=20 years of age and gay/lesbians. These groups may petition for recognition an= d=20 support as EEO networking groups. There is also no affirmative action=20 requirement for marital status and religious beliefs."=20 The policy goes on to say the company "is committed to assuring awareness o= f=20 the workplace related needs and issues of personnel in these legally=20 protected groups so as to support a non-discriminatory workplace=20 environment."=20 However, when Christians in the Workplace Networking Group applied for=20 official recognition with Sandia, the company denied its request.=20 After deliberating the Christian group's request for seven months, Sandia=20 denied it, saying the Christian workers had "not established the existence = of=20 workplace barriers based on religion."=20 But in a letter to Margaret Harvey, Sandia's diversity, EEO and affirmative= =20 action department manager, CWNG member Michael Hall listed examples of=20 discrimination against Christians at the company. Among the examples cited = in=20 the letter.=20 *Sandia's policies regarding bulletin board postings do not allow any=20 references to religious events.=20 *Sandia employees may organize and collect donations of food or clothing fo= r=20 any organization so long as it is non-denominational.=20 *Company EEO networking groups policy specifically excludes religious group= s.=20 *Employees have been required to remove posters, pictures, books and screen= =20 savers having any religious content.=20 *Engineers may not use Biblical references when generating creative names f= or=20 new projects. For example, a reconnaissance robot named Caleb (for the=20 Biblical spy sent on a reconnaissance mission) was ordered to be renamed.=20 However, employees frequently "use the Lord's name as profanity."=20 "Because of these and similar incidents, many Christian workers are not=20 comfortable with expressing who they are openly for fear of ridicule or=20 reprimand from management or fellow employees," the letter continues.=20 After their initial request for recognition was denied, the Christian worke= rs=20 submitted a series of follow-up requests, but Sandia management never chang= ed=20 its mind.=20 Granting recognition to the homosexual group while denying the same=20 recognition to the Christian group violates the Christians' constitutional= =20 rights to free speech and free exercise of religion, the lawsuit contends.= =20 Plaintiffs have asked the court to declare Sandia's EEO policy=20 unconstitutional and to order the company to pay attorneys' fees.=20 Sandia, one of three Department of Energy laboratories -- including Lawrenc= e=20 Livermore and Los Alamos which develop top-secret weaponry for the=20 government, was shut down for two days last month so employees could underg= o=20 "diversity training."=20 "Apparently the DOE is more concerned with furthering diversity than it is= =20 with national security," said Stephen Crampton, the American Family=20 Association attorney representing the Christian group.=20 The AFA issued a statement saying "the whole concept of networking groups w= as=20 designed expressly to extend special privileges to homosexuals."=20 "In short," the statement continues, "homosexuals have received special=20 rights at Sandia, while Christian employees have been denied equal=20 treatment."=20 "Despite paying lip service to non-discrimination on the basis of religion,= =20 Sandia's policy is discriminatory against religion on its face," Crampton=20 said. "It is an insult not only to believers in God, but to believers in=20 freedom everywhere," he added.=20 Since officially recognizing the homosexual employee group, Sandia employee= s=20 have been subjected to annual "Coming Out Day" celebrations and "diversity= =20 training," in which they are encouraged to accept and respect homosexuals.= =20 Some employees have even been asked to remove photos of their wives and=20 children, because they offend homosexuals, who are not allowed to marry and= =20 feel pressure not to publicize their own intimate relationships.=20 WorldNetDaily contacted Sandia, which issued a written statement.=20 "Sandia understands that serious, emotional issues are involved here," it=20 says. "Some of the comments made by the American Family Association (AFA) i= n=20 its May 1 news release and by its legal counsel are inflammatory and=20 divisive. Sandia believes such extreme rhetoric does not serve anyone well,= =20 and we will not get involved in a running debate with the AFA in the media.= =20 We will address these serious issues that are important to our employees=20 through proper channels."=20 "Sandia National Laboratories' policy is to provide an employee-friendly=20 environment free of prejudice to anyone on the basis of race, age, religion= ,=20 sex, sexual orientation, or any other basic characteristic or belief.=20 "We cannot comment about specific issues in any litigation pending against= =20 the Laboratories, but we assure everyone that Sandia will continue working= =20 with all employee interest groups to resolve any perceived fairness or=20 discrimination issues."=20 But Crampton doubts the company's sincerity.=20 "The high priests of tolerance do not practice what they preach," he said.= =20 "Progress at Sandia apparently means relegating Christians to the back of t= he=20 bus."=20 =20 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] did YOU do it??? (fwd) Date: 05 May 2000 10:20:47 PST Now this is cute..... On May 4, JOANN ODD wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hey! I just got a FRN FROM THE BANK when I cashed a check, and it has stamped over the big ONE on the back...in black... 'WARNING! This "Note" is NOT LAWFUL MONEY! Nor is it redeemable in lawful money, per Article 1 section 10, U.S. Constitution" What a GREAT way to get the message out about the $$$ problem!!! it sure made ME stop and look at it! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 05 May 2000 10:19:52 PST On May 05, david-ben..david wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I have, in the past, contemplated the "cause" of slavery in ancient times, why it was accepted and continued for millenia. The reason is quite obvious considering their lack of socialist societies. If a person had no family, was not landed, had no property, had no employment, he/she became a vagabond and thus a threat to the people, it being necessary to turn to crime to survive. Just my opinion, but, I think slavery was instituted either for prevention or punishment for infraction of laws regarding theft of other people's property. It is easy to believe in slavery and support it, even practice it, in a "truly civilized" society where people look to their families for support rather than calling on their gov't to rape their neighbor of funds for support. I look at all of these crack-heads walking the streets of America and can't help but think that these people are totally out of control and unable to help themselves, worthy only of slavery because of the crimes which are committed in order to support their habit. So, what do we do in reality? We incarcerate them, put them through rehabilitation whether they want it or not, which seldom ever works without desire on their part, letting the gov't rape us of our money to accomplish this. We say we do not believe in slavery. I say au contraire, we most certainly do. We, the people, are the slaves, compelled to financially subsidize the irresponsibility of these people, compelled at the point of a gun by this communist perversion of a gov't to cough up the money, threatened with loss of our liberty and property unless we cooperate with this extortion agenda which does little to help those for whom it is intended, all the while fattening the pockets of those involved with policing, jailing, judging, beaurocratically managing and otherwise so-called treating these addicts. What a joke it is, this socialist agenda, this thing of giving the poor and so-called disadvantaged their "dignity". They have no dignity inasmuch as they are theives, robbing their neighbor through the gov't programs, prospersing at someone else's expense. When I see the whores having more and more bastard children, paid to have more, subsidized in their perversion of bringing into the world fatherless children all for the purpose of getting a bigger check, given food stamps, welfare because of being so-called disadvantaged, HUD housing, free education, free medical care, I am compelled to come to the conclusion that there is "indeed" slavery here in America, the enslavement of John Q. Public. You'll notice that I didn't mention a particular race and that for good reason because one single race does not bear the blame. Slavery is alive and well in this American Union of Socialist Republics. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The Biggest Game in Town? (fwd) Date: 06 May 2000 09:31:02 PST On May 05, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >( SNIP ADDRESSES) Oh what you do to me , Politicians every day and every >nite. I don't like it.//// >From: "Tony Myrick" >Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 10:07:46 -0500 >Reply-To: texas_net@egroups.com >Subject: The Biggest Game in Town? > >To find out how and where all of our tax dollars are in secret accounts >held in limbo go to > >http://www.cafrman.com > >http://www.financenet.gov/state/cafr.htm > or > >http://www.financenet.gov/stat >e/reports.htm > >A suggestion for Brent Johnson or Alex Jones to interview: > >Walter J. Barien, Jr. >P. O. Box 11444 >Prescot, Arizona 86304 >mailto:cafr1@aol.com > >For Citizens Investment Trust Account >Local government investment pools (where the surplus is)! >Look for the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports >the Citizen's Economic victory Initiative where $60 trillion in >surplus/hidden tax dollars are. >Also look for this in all Educational Local Government Schools....... > >This is an organized syndicate from local, city/town, state, and federal >government..... > >Take Amerika back to make it AMERICA! > >Do it now..... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: SD Action item - Gun Show under attack! (fwd) Date: 06 May 2000 09:32:49 PST On May 6, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand? _______________________________________________ Anyone who believes it is okay to parse their words Clinton-style because the end justifies the means, hasn't got the foresight of a baboon. You can quote me. Rich Martin Editor of Slick From: Marie Gunther Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 12:53 AM Subject: SD Action item - Gun Show under attack! > FYI: > > Monday night KNSD TV evening news, in San Diego, had on Susan Pollock > from Hand Control Inc. on to condemn this gun show. She stated it is gun > shows like this one that cause Columbines. She pumped out so much > propaganda in five minutes that I was astounded. I quickly got her > number, 619-235-9167, and called her. I countered all the propaganda > she spewed forth; guns kill children, it is only a trigger lock > requirement - "no one wants to take away 2nd amendment rights," blah, > blah. Frankly she could NOT take the numerous counter debate I quickly > laid out on each item. Her voice got quivery, she was dumbfounded to > the point where she just hung up on me. These people cannot tolerate > facts and they are very dangerous because they know they are telling > lies - but they do it anyway. > marie > http://cyber77.com/sas.htm Message from Second Amendment Sisters > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Copy of: Copy of: FULL ALERT STATUS - ANTI's ATTEMPT TO > CLOSEDEL MAR GUN SHOW > Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:44:55 -0400 > From: Jim Cammarano <71774.121@compuserve.com> > To: MARIE E GUNTHER > > Marie --- > > We need all the help we can get with this one. Please send it out to > anyone who may be interested. > > Jim Cammarano, NRA Members' Council of North San Diego > > > > > RE: Copy of: FULL ALERT STATUS - ANTI's ATTEMPT TO CLOSE DEL MAR GUN > SHOW > > Folks --- > > FULL ALERT STATUS ** FULL ALERT STATUS ** FULL ALERT STATUS > > PLEASE REPOST WIDELY IN ALL MEDIA - ANTI'S WANT TO CLOSE THE DEL MAR GUN > SHOW!!!!!!!!!!! MEETING 5/9/00 > ===================================================================== > FROM THE NRA MEMBERS' COUNCIL OF NORTH SAN DIEGO > > The anti-gun crowd is now intent on closing the Del Mar Gun Show. We > need a > crowd of several hundred people to attend the hearing on 5/9/00. YOU > NEED > TO BE THERE!! > > The next meeting of the 22nd Agricultural District Board is Tuesday, May > 9, > at 2:00 PM. The subject is the future of the Del Mar Gun Show. We need > to > have a sizable contingent there to support the board's directors, who > are > supportive of the show. > > As you are already aware, the local media sharks have been attracted to > the > show by "a local activist" in Del Mar and the ATF who chummed the water > with a story that a former local gun dealer supposedly talked with some > bad > guys about dumping his inventory. Some of that inventory allegedly found > its way to Mexico where it was apparently used in a couple of high > profile > murders. So now, of course, because of an alleged conversation, not a > transaction, the Del Mar Gun Show is "unclean." > > The board offices are located at: > > 22nd Agricultural District > 2260 Jimmy Durante Boulevard > Del Mar, CA 92014-2216 > > >From I-5, drive southwest to the South end of the fairgrounds, turn > RIGHT > into the parking lot just before you reach the Del Mar Fire Station, and > park in the visitor lot in front of the board offices in the low > tan-colored building. Enter the building through the green door marked > "Marketing and Human Resources." The meeting room is just inside to the > left. > > For further information, please call Mike Walker, the board's > information > officer, at: > > (858) 792-4262 (Phone) > (858) 792-4453 (FAX) > dmfinfo@delmarfair.com > > Please write a letter of support for the Gun Show and attend the meeting > (I > know, it's a workday...) > > > Yours in Freedom, > > Jim > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eLerts It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free! http://click.egroups.com/1/3864/2/_/12741/_/957618550/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GovtWatch for Freedom http://members.aol.com/g0vtwatch/index.html "The Govt is Watching You...Who is Watching the Govt?" >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: HUMOR: Bill to Regulate Hunting and Harvesting of Attorneys (fwd) Date: 06 May 2000 09:31:44 PST On May 5, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In a message dated 4/10/2000 9:12:02 AM Central Daylight Time, Nameloh writes: << 370.01 Any person with a valid in-state rodent or snake hunting license may also hunt and harvest attorneys for recreational and sport (noncommercial) purposes. 370.02 Taking of attorneys with traps or deadfalls is permitted. The use of United States currency as bait, however, is prohibited. 370.03 The willful killing of attorneys with a motor vehicle is prohibited, unless such vehicle is an ambulance being driven in reverse. If an attorney is accidentally struck by a motor vehicle, the dead attorney should be removed to the roadside, and the vehicle should proceed immediately to the nearest car wash. 370.04 It is unlawful to chase, herd or harvest attorneys from a power boat, helicopter or aircraft. 370.05 It is unlawful to shout, "WHIPLASH", "AMBULANCE", or "FREE SCOTCH" for the purposes of trapping attorneys. 370.06 It is unlawful to hunt attorneys within 100 yards of BMW, Mercedes or Porsche dealerships, except on Wednesday afternoon. 370.07 It is unlawful to hunt attorneys within 200 yards of courtrooms, law libraries, health clubs, country clubs, hospitals or brothels. 370.08 If an attorney gains elective office, it is not necessary to have a license to hunt, trap or possess the same. 370.09 It is unlawful for a hunter to wear a disguise as a reporter, accident victim, physician, chiropractor or tax accountant for the purpose of hunting attorneys. 370.10 Bag and Possession Limits per day: Yellow-bellied sidewinders, 2;Two-faced tort-feasors, 1; Back-stabbing divorce litigators, 3;Horn-rimmed cut-throats, 2; Minutiae-advocating dirtbags, 4. Honest attorneys protected (Endangered Species Act). ARS 8007.21 It is illegal to take attorneys with a moving vehicle unless there are no measurable skid marks at the kill site. >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 06 May 2000 14:54:28 -0500 roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > >On May 05, david-ben..david wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > >I have, in the past, contemplated the "cause" of slavery in ancient >times, why it was accepted and continued for millenia. The reason is >quite obvious considering their lack of socialist societies. If a >person had no family, was not landed, had no property, had no >employment, he/she became a vagabond and thus a threat to the people, >it being necessary to turn to crime to survive. > >Just my opinion, but, I think slavery was instituted either >for prevention or punishment for infraction of laws regarding theft >of >other people's property. It is easy to believe in slavery and >support it, even practice it, in a "truly civilized" society where >people look to their families for support rather than calling on >their >gov't to rape their neighbor of funds for support. Not hardly, slaves were either members of "other" groups, a nother tribe or people from another village, who were captured. Often the only purpose of the fighting they were captured in was to collect slaves. The African slaves that were brought to this country usually fell into this category, with the additional twist that the were caputured not to be the slaves of the capturors, although they did that too, but to be sold, first to other Africans, or to Arabs, who in turn sold them to the slavers who then distrubed them to various places, most importantly to the Americas. > >I look at all of these crack-heads walking the streets of America and >can't help but think that these people are totally out of control and >unable to help themselves, worthy only of slavery because of the >crimes which are committed in order to support their habit. So, what >do we do in reality? We incarcerate them, put them through >rehabilitation whether they want it or not, which seldom ever works >without desire on their part, letting the gov't rape us of our money >to accomplish this. > >We say we do not believe in slavery. I say au contraire, we most >certainly do. We, the people, are the slaves, compelled to >financially subsidize the irresponsibility of these people, compelled >at the point of a gun by this communist perversion of a gov't to >cough >up the money, threatened with loss of our liberty and property unless >we cooperate with this extortion agenda which does little to help >those for whom it is intended, all the while fattening the pockets of >those involved with policing, jailing, judging, beaurocratically >managing and otherwise so-called treating these addicts. We would be much better off if those "helped" by government handouts were required to perform some service to the rest of us, like picking up trash, sweeping the sidewalks, or whatever. This would give them both some true dignaty, since they would have at least partially *earned* their keep, and would also given them some incentive to get off the program, since if they have to peform "honest labor" anyway, they might as well do so in the private sector where wages and working conditions might be more favorable. I would set the rules and standards to inusre that private sector work would be more attractive. :) > >What a joke it is, this socialist agenda, this thing of giving the >poor and so-called disadvantaged their "dignity". They have no >dignity inasmuch as they are theives, robbing their neighbor through >the gov't programs, prospersing at someone else's expense. > >When I see the whores having more and more bastard children, paid to >have more, subsidized in their perversion of bringing into the world >fatherless children all for the purpose of getting a bigger check, >given food stamps, welfare because of being so-called disadvantaged, >HUD housing, free education, free medical care, I am compelled to >come to the conclusion that there is "indeed" slavery here in >America, >the enslavement of John Q. Public. > >You'll notice that I didn't mention a particular race and that for >good reason because one single race does not bear the blame. Slavery >is alive and well in this American Union of Socialist Republics. If not slavery, then it's surely involuntary servitude, which is prohibited by the 13th Amendment. OTOH, if the recipients were providing a service, then it would be no different than the various other (mostly) local and state employees who maintain the roads and sewer systems. > >[------------------------- end of forwarded message ---------------- The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Ball Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 06 May 2000 17:13:36 -0500 Sorry, Joe, all involuntary servitude (slavery) is not prohibited under the 13th Amendment. Those convicted of crime can be forced to perform involuntary servitude. Seems like a good idea to me. It would be better having these blokes working an producing than sitting arround pumping iron, watching T.V. and improving their sex lives. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Joe Sylvester wrote: > roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > > > > >On May 05, david-ben..david wrote: > > > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > > >I have, in the past, contemplated the "cause" of slavery in ancient > >times, why it was accepted and continued for millenia. The reason is > >quite obvious considering their lack of socialist societies. If a > >person had no family, was not landed, had no property, had no > >employment, he/she became a vagabond and thus a threat to the people, > >it being necessary to turn to crime to survive. > > > >Just my opinion, but, I think slavery was instituted either > >for prevention or punishment for infraction of laws regarding theft > >of > >other people's property. It is easy to believe in slavery and > >support it, even practice it, in a "truly civilized" society where > >people look to their families for support rather than calling on > >their > >gov't to rape their neighbor of funds for support. > > Not hardly, slaves were either members of "other" groups, a nother tribe or > people from another village, who were captured. Often the only purpose of > the fighting they were captured in was to collect slaves. > > The African slaves that were brought to this country usually fell into this > category, with the additional twist that the were caputured not to be the > slaves of the capturors, although they did that too, but to be sold, first > to other Africans, or to Arabs, who in turn sold them to the slavers who > then distrubed them to various places, most importantly to the Americas. > > > > >I look at all of these crack-heads walking the streets of America and > >can't help but think that these people are totally out of control and > >unable to help themselves, worthy only of slavery because of the > >crimes which are committed in order to support their habit. So, what > >do we do in reality? We incarcerate them, put them through > >rehabilitation whether they want it or not, which seldom ever works > >without desire on their part, letting the gov't rape us of our money > >to accomplish this. > > > >We say we do not believe in slavery. I say au contraire, we most > >certainly do. We, the people, are the slaves, compelled to > >financially subsidize the irresponsibility of these people, compelled > >at the point of a gun by this communist perversion of a gov't to > >cough > >up the money, threatened with loss of our liberty and property unless > >we cooperate with this extortion agenda which does little to help > >those for whom it is intended, all the while fattening the pockets of > >those involved with policing, jailing, judging, beaurocratically > >managing and otherwise so-called treating these addicts. > > We would be much better off if those "helped" by government handouts were > required to perform some service to the rest of us, like picking up trash, > sweeping the sidewalks, or whatever. This would give them both some true > dignaty, since they would have at least partially *earned* their keep, and > would also given them some incentive to get off the program, since if they > have to peform "honest labor" anyway, they might as well do so in the > private sector where wages and working conditions might be more favorable. > I would set the rules and standards to inusre that private sector work > would be more attractive. :) > > > > >What a joke it is, this socialist agenda, this thing of giving the > >poor and so-called disadvantaged their "dignity". They have no > >dignity inasmuch as they are theives, robbing their neighbor through > >the gov't programs, prospersing at someone else's expense. > > > >When I see the whores having more and more bastard children, paid to > >have more, subsidized in their perversion of bringing into the world > >fatherless children all for the purpose of getting a bigger check, > >given food stamps, welfare because of being so-called disadvantaged, > >HUD housing, free education, free medical care, I am compelled to > >come to the conclusion that there is "indeed" slavery here in > >America, > >the enslavement of John Q. Public. > > > >You'll notice that I didn't mention a particular race and that for > >good reason because one single race does not bear the blame. Slavery > >is alive and well in this American Union of Socialist Republics. > > If not slavery, then it's surely involuntary servitude, which is prohibited > by the 13th Amendment. OTOH, if the recipients were providing a service, > then it would be no different than the various other (mostly) local and > state employees who maintain the roads and sewer systems. > > > > >[------------------------- end of forwarded message ---------------- > > The Second Amendment is the RESET button > of the United States Constitution. > ---Doug McKay" > > Joe Sylvester > Don't Tread On Me ! > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NOW THE U.N TELLS US WHAT TO EAT! (fwd) Date: 06 May 2000 22:51:55 PST On May 06, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance, which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime----and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran (1750-1817) Message-ID: Friends, This is from Bob. Although there is no "subscribe" message for Bob's mail list in the message, Bob sends out several articles each night. If you have the time for more information, you can contact Bob to be added to his list. You will receive many of each day's most important articles. Thanks Bob. Jim Hardin The Freedom Page http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com To receive Freedom Page mail, put "Subscribe" as subject to freedompage@mindspring.com To be removed, put "Remove" as subject. Alabama Committee To Get Us Out of the UN http://themustardseed.home.mindspring.com Organization: THE REAL NEWS Attention all subscribers: This is a matter of immediate urgency! Please read this and contact the necessary agencies. STOP CODEX..... While the leaders of several major alternative health organizations are remaining silent on the matter, a major threat to your Health Freedom is fast approaching.... WHAT IS CODEX: Codex Alimentarius is a United Nations agency which was started to maintain overview of Medical Pharmaceutical products. This UN agency has now and announced that it is expanding its overview to all products for human therapies-including Vitamins, Herbs, Minerals and Alternative therapies.... Over the last few years The United States government has attempted to place Natural Non Pharmaceutical Health remedies under the Medical Prescription system. They were defeated by a storm of protest. Well, Now the government intends to proceed on the grounds that the U.S. acceptance of the GATT TREATY makes it subject to the United Nations CODEX registration and administration. CODEX regulations call for the placing of limits on all human therapy Materials, Requiring Both Federal and United Nations Licensing of All Firms Producing HEALTH Products AND LICENSING of each individual item! Codex will strongly promote the placing of all NON PHARMACEUTICALS under the PRESCRIPTION SYSTEM and make continued activity of NON CORPORATE FIRMS in the field very difficult... WHAT YOU CAN DO: *Call your Congressman and Senator; tell them you don't want your Choices Limited by any UNELECTED BUREAUCRAT DOMESTIC OR INTERNATIONAL agency. * Call the Media! The Press, TV/Radio Talk shows etc. Get the word out about CODEX; (this especially applies to radio talk shows) tell those you reach you don't want regulation of YOUR HEALTH! Tell them how extensive the EFFECTS of this new regulation/registration will be. Contact your Health Organizations; ask them what they are doing about CODEX and WHY there hasn't been More Notice on this new VERY dangerous condition... and make your future contributions dependent on their responses to you. SUPPORT organizations fighting CODEX. Many organizations already in the fight need your support. The following is a list of organizations that may have info on CODEX and need your help. International Advocates for Health Freedom 504-745-6534 or 1-800-333-2553 Web Site :www. IAHF.Com Life Extension Foundation 954-766-8433 or Fax 954-761-9199 International Counsil on Health Freedom 619-702-1282 or Fax 858-581-6640 AD Publications 212-886-5413 The CODEX program threatens everyone who wants and needs freedom of choice. In Europe right now strong limits have been placed on both the availability dosage of even common vitamins! Anyone who has had "expierences" with the FDA should consider what it would be like appealing to a licensing bureaucrat in Brussels! Please respond and let the world know that we do not want to be told by the U.N. what to eat! This is another move by the U.N. to take more of our freedom. Also see http://themustardseed.home.mindspring.com Get US out of the U.N. Looking for what the Bible says about Christians and Civil Government? Pastor John Weaver covers this and much more. Audio tapes are only $4.00 each. Just click: http://freedompage.home.mindspring.com/johnweaver.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Are You A Willing Seller? (fwd) Date: 07 May 2000 09:38:45 PST On May 7, Lynn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Think about this. Then take action. Private property is at risk here. So, they take your guns, land, home, kids, free speech, jobs, church. What's left? Only slavery. Or death. Lynn/MT --- Clarice Ryan wrote: > From: "Clarice Ryan" > To: "Repr.Rick Hill" > Subject: FW: Are You A Willing Seller? > Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 08:31:04 -0600 > > We keep hearing the terms "destroy the > economy", "loss of private property", > "intrusive governmental rules and regulations". > Read the following to get a > MENTAL PICTURE of what these terms REALLY MEAN > !!! IT is hitting close to > HOME. > > The CARA bill going to vote this coming > Wednesday, May 10, would provide the > money to both the states and the federal > government for acquisition of > private property. IT is closely related to our > problems with the Forest > Service and policies concerning access to all > public lands. Other states are > also experiencing increasing limitations on use > and enjoyment of government > held property: county, state and federal. Mail > this to your friends in > other states. Our Repr. Rick Hill has been > fighting for a long time to > defeat CARA. Lets give him our support in > convincing the other Congressmen > to vote against it. Add your own personal > opinions to the E-mail to your > friends saying how it is affecting you and will > also be affecting them. > Everyone in the United States will eventually > feel the consequences in one > way or another. Clarice > > > WILLING SELLER - A MYTH WE MUST > VOTE "NO" ON CARA, HR 701 > > > "John Jones is a willing seller. He didn't > want to sell and held out as > long as he could. First the Park Service came > in and purchased the homes, > farms and timberlands of his neighbors who did > want to sell. There will > always be some. Then the agency began to > search out those families who > were in some kind of financial distress such as > from a death, divorce, loss > of job and other reason. > > > "Jones watched as his community was > checkerboarded by the Park Service. > He remembered being told when the park was > created that he would not be > forced out. But now the agency was targeting > local businesses and the > county itself. Many small businesses were > purchased and put out of > business. The Park Service purchased the > holdings of several large > timberland companies. Smaller timber owners > began to sell as they saw > that the logging infrastructure might > eventually not be there. The mill > eventually had to close because it could not > get enough wood. Like a > natural ecosystem, the economic ecosystem of a > community is very fragile. > > > "As more timberland was purchased, more homes > and farms began to disappear. > Many residents wanted to hold out but with > fewer jobs in the county, the > value of their homes and property began to go > down. As the Park Service > purchased them, they lay empty for months or > even years because the agency > said they did not have the funds to clear them > out. They became havens for > vandals and drug houses. > > > "The Nature Conservancy and other land trusts > began to circle like > buzzards. They would buy from financially > distressed landowners, then turn > the land over to the Federal government. Time > after time this happened, > quietly, secretly and silently they helped > undercut the community. > > > "As properties were taken off the tax rolls, > the schools and county > services began to suffer. Several closed > making longer trips to school > necessary for families. The school district > didn't have the money for the > busses they needed. Roads began to close. As > large areas were purchased > by the Park Service, the agency put up chains > across the roads. Some of > these roads had been used for years by > neighbors as access points to the > river or to go camping, swimming, woodcutting > or berry picking. Usually we > knew another way but over time, all the access > was closed off. > > > "Churches, clubs and other community services > began to close. The Rotary > Club couldn't keep enough members. The > library was in trouble. The hours > were cut for it and other county services. > There had been several markets > in town and three gas stations. There is only > one of each now and it looks > like the store will close. That means a 80 > mile drive to Millersville for > groceries. Over time, other essential services > and stores began to > disappear. > > > "When the park was created they promised > tourism. I don't know where it > is. We gave up a lot of good jobs for this > park and the tourists don't > come. Several motels and restaurants were > built in anticipation of the > visitors. All but one restaurant is closed, > and it cut its hours back. We > have two motels still open but they are > struggling. > > > "We have a very nice ski area but a Park > Service trail runs through it. > The agency has harassed the owners so often > that they're close to giving > up. They can't get any kind of commitment from > the Park Service as to a > final trail location so they can't invest in > modernizing and expanding the > ski area. There sure are a lot of people in > town who would benefit if the > ski area were allowed to meet its potential. > > > "We thought the Park Service supported > recreation. Now it seems the > opposite is true. We heard from people out > West that the Park Service and > the environmental groups were becoming > anti-recreation. It couldn't be > true we said. It looks like we were wrong. > They seem to be against skiing > and snowmobiling. Snowmobiles are being kicked > out of all parks. It > doesn't make sense. > > > "The county had no choice but to raise our > taxes. The tax base for the > county was shrinking almost daily. We had one > local bank and several bank > branches. Now there is only one branch open as > part of the market, but it > may go away too. The banks have not made loans > in our town for several > years now because the future is unstable. They > won't make loans to > loggers, equipment suppliers, or small > businessmen because of threat from > the Feds. No new houses have been built in some > time. The theater closed > and the cable television company is considering > shutting down. It feels > like a ghost town. > > > "We always thought we could fall back on our > farmers and ranchers. But as > farmland was purchased, more and more farmers > began to leave. Their kids > didn't see any reason to stay. There aren't > enough farmers now to support > the supply store and the farming infrastructure > and other needs. The > farmers have to drive so far to get services > that it just doesn't make > sense. More and more are selling. > > > "It's ironic. When the park was proposed there > was a big land acquisition > fund before Congress at about the same time > that included some funding for > recreation. Many county commissioners > supported it because they wanted > money for soccer fields and swimming pools. > Now they see they've lost > their tax base and have trouble finding the > resources to maintain those > assets. The population has changed so much > they may not even need them > soon. > > > "Surprisingly, even homebuilders and realtors > supported the land > acquisition funding originally as well as the > park. They really thought > the tourism would come and provide an economic > boom. Now they see they > don't have a market anymore and most people > have been driven to the city. > The land acquisition has sucked the vitality > right out of the community. > But it's too late to go back. > > > "Frankly, it seems like most of these big > organizations like the realtors > and homebuilders and even the county > commissioners are controlled by hired > guns from the big cities so I'm not sure they > really care about what > happens in our community. And our local county > commissioners are so busy > they hardly have time to go to all the meetings > as the planners from the > Federal government come and take over the > process. > > > "The Government even wants a buffer zone around > the park now and is trying > to close down the roads and access to the > National Forests. What a > difference between now and when I was growing > up. So many places we used > to enjoy are either owned by the government or > regulated so tightly you > can't go there or use them. > > > "The hunters and sportsmen really got a > surprise. They supported all the > land acquisition only to find that they lost > access to many places. And > frankly, game was more plentiful on the land > when it was private. I've > never been convinced these hot shot fancy > education government officials > knew much about protecting wildlife. I know we > had better hunting around > here before all the private lands were taken by > the government, especially > when tree harvesting was taking place. > > > "Some of my neighbors are determined to stay > and suffer the consequences > and severe hardships of living within a now > nearly all Federal enclave. I > love my town. I was born and raised here, went > away to college and came > back. It looks like that even though I stood > up to those Federal land > acquisition agents, there will soon be nothing > left to stand up for. I > never thought I'd be a willing seller. But I > am now." > > > "This is a composite of experiences from > landowners who have been forced to > sell their property against their will." > > > > WANT TO STOP CARA (HR 701)? > > You have only a few days until the vote is > scheduled May 10th. The bill > advocates are trying to say CARA has > protections for private property > rights. Don't you believe it. They do have a > couple of token provisions > which will only slightly slow the land > acquisition process down. The > bottom line is: "IT'S THE MONEY, STUPID." If > the Feds have the money, > they'll find a way to get you. Count on it. > > > There must be no trust fund. No new > Entitlement. All the money must go > through the appropriations process which keeps > Congress in control. > $45 billion dollars over 15 years is a lot of > money available to the > government to buy your house and your land. > Something isn't right here. > > > Call your Congressman at (202) 225-3121 to urge > him or her to vote NO on > CARA. > > > Send a copy of "Willing Seller, A Myth" to your > Congressman. Better yet, > had deliver it to him over the weekend when he > or she is home. We have > attached a formatted version with this E-Mail. > We've suggested that you > use a phone call or fax over E-mail at the last > minute. In this situation, > E-mail is very appropriate and some will get > read in time. > > > Send a copy of "Willing Seller, A Myth" to at > least five other people. > > > Make photocopies of the formatted version and > hand them out to your > neighbors and friends. As them to call your > Congressman at (202) 225-3121. > > From: LandRights Network > [mailto:alra@pacifier.com] > American Land Rights Association - Land Rights > Network > http://www.landrights.org > Legislative Office: Mike Hardiman - 508 First > St SE - Washington DC 20003 > Phone: 202-251-3473 - Fax: 202-543-7126 - > Email: hardimanmike@aol.com ===== Give them your message without speaking... Now- "Community Currency" redeemable in silver! The best pro gun news on the web! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Harry E. Barnett" Subject: FW: Keyes on Gonzalez matter Date: 07 May 2000 17:33:41 -0700 Dr. Keyes' Alabama address Renew America Rally Alabama 4/29/00 Good evening! Thank you for coming. I am going to, I guess, have to repay your willingness to come out and listen for a few minutes in an unaccustomed way. Because, while I do mean to show my gratitude for your being here, I also think it would be important to spend the next few minutes - fewer than I would usually have because I have to catch a plane - so I am faced with the challenge of having to lay out for you what I believe to be the critical stage that this nation is in with perhaps a little more directness than I might otherwise do. And as all of you've probably heard, I'm pretty well known for my directness anyway, so you're in for something special. (laughter) But I think that we are coming down to the wire in terms of the fate of this nation's freedom. I was thinking of that over the course of the last weekend when, as you know, this famous episode in Miami occurred. We saw, sent around the world, this picture of a six year old with automatic weapons stuck in his face as they grabbed him out of the clutches of the wicked, evil , bad folks in Miami, whose crime was that they loved him too much. And they decided to take him off, and actually, take him off under an understanding that sadly, though we ought to know this as Americans, we no longer seem to understand. Because I was noticing a cover on TIME I think it was, that has "Papa!" and so forth, and the whole mythology that Elian is going back to his father really irks me. You know that that cannot be true in Cuba don't you? Because Cuba is a Communist totalitarian society, one of the few on the face of the earth where they thoroughly implement the concept of Communism, and that means the children are not raised by their parents in Cuba, they are raised by the Castro Communist totalitarian state. And as I've often pointed out to folks, I deeply believe that fathers have the right to decide where their children are living. And with the mother gone and so forth and so on, it is absolutely the right of that father to decide whether that child is going to be with him or not, provided that the decision can be made in freedom. There's just one problem with Cuba. No decision taken by a parent in Cuba can be made in freedom because no parents in Cuba live in freedom. And that faces us with an awesome dilemma. It means we've got a government that just did the bidding of the Communist master of Cuba, and he decided this time that he would do it in the fashion of the Communist master of Cuba. So they've implemented this thuggery against citizens of the United States. And I don't even think we even recognize what's going on because people are coming out saying, "This is a family dispute," and so forth and so on. Last time I looked, you don't solve most of these family disputes with automatic weapons. And there are a lot of other ways this could have been dealt with. Why do you think they did it this way? Well, they did it this way because this is THE way of the Clinton era in order to get the American people accustomed to the fact that we are no longer the free people we once were. Knocks on the door in the middle of the night with people coming to snatch away your children or yourself, those are things we used to associate only with the Communist tyrannies that we fought against. But now this is an image you must associate henceforward with YOUR country! And if you think it will be confined, in the days to come, to families like that of Elian Gonzalez, think again. For what we are looking at is a dress rehearsal for your future. The tyranny in this nation has already begun. They're easing us into it so that by the time the stench grows bad enough, we will have gotten so used to it, we won't even recognize the images of that tyranny. And this is sad. But it's where we are and it's where we've been heading for a long time. And I don't think that we have much longer to turn around. I cannot understand why Americans believe that we can go on destroying the most important foundations of our whole way of life, and expect it to survive. Why do you think this is going to happen? I guess it's because like so many other things, we tend in our political life to take everything for granted. "Always been this way therefore it will always be this way." That's not true. We live in a century that proves it without a doubt. There were whole civilizations wiped off the face of the earth in the 20th century. Even the one in Europe, which they claim to have rebuilt from the rubble, is not today what it was before it destroyed itself in two World Wars. And the people who lived both before the first one and in the interim between the first and second, they thought it would always be thus. They lived oblivious to the destruction that would be wrought in their own society and sadly, I think we do too. And right now, in the midst of a little material prosperity and so forth and so on, some of us believe that nothing bad is ever going to happen. That's not true. I think we're just in a little lull before the storm. Given the nature of our technology and the new means that we have, not only to abuse man's physical nature but to distort and abuse the very essence biologically and genetically of that nature itself, the tyranny that is to come will fasten itself upon us in ways that we have not even begun to imagine. And why would this happen? Because, as a people we took the heritage of freedom, threw it away. We watched it be destroyed before our very eyes! We sat by silently while the basic principles and concepts on which it rests were taken out of our public life and wrested even from the very consciousness and souls of children, and didn't even know what was going on. That all sounds very dramatic, why would I say that? I think it's very clear. This nation was founded on a clear, simple and easily stated premise. Right there in the Declaration they make it crystal clear: "We hold these Truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..." The importance of that statement is that it makes it clear that the claim that we have to human rights and dignity does not come, as some folks n the ACLU want us to believe, from the Bill of Rights and it doesn't come from the Constitution and it doesn't come from the laws passed by the Congress and it doesn't come from the decisions that are taken by the Supreme Court. That claim to human dignity and human rights which is the foundation of our whole way of life, rests on the power and the will, the existence and the authority of Almighty God, not on any human foundation. That is a powerfully important statement because it contains that creed which then becomes the basis for courage and perseverance even in the face of the vast array of human power. Why we are fighting for our rights is because we know, or at least we have grown to be certain what most people at most times in the history of the world did not even imagine: that we have a dignity sanctioned by the most awesome power there is in the universe. And that when we fight to sustain it, we do not stand alone. No matter what powers seem to stand against us. I think that that has emboldened many hearts in the history of this nation to fight for its independence, to fight against slavery, to fight for the rights of women, to fight against the abuses of workers, to fight for all those things that down through the years of this nation's life have extended the promise and reality of freedom to more and more of our people, have allowed more and more of us to stand with that dignity which was the promise of our founding. And the courage that allowed folks to achieve all those results even when the world stood totally arrayed against them came ultimately from that belief , that though you may seem at first to stand alone, you can still prevail because the Lord stands with you. What do you think happens then if we let that go? And we are letting it go, we have already let it go in so many ways. We have let it go by buying into the lie being told by the folks in our courts right now who have taken the principle that our rights came from God and thrown it on the ash heap of history. That's the significance, by the way, that is so often lost about the abortion issue and it's why I always get to it at some point or other in my discussions of America's present life. Because some people think, even in the right to life movement, I was at a dinner the other night in which, you know, very big Right to Life organization holding its national dinner, we go through the whole evening and they'll talk about wonderful achievements, getting the numbers of abortions down and all this other sort of stuff. They talk about the abortion issue as if it is only an issue of how many babies we have killed and how many we are going to reduce the number of, as if nothing else is involved than that loss of physical life. That loss of physical life is indeed bad enough, it's heinous, it's criminal, but at the end of the day, that is not the only loss this nation suffers. And no matter what specious arguments can be used to try to demean and degrade the physical life in the womb, those arguments don't hold a candle in their effect to the one reality that once we have adopted the principle of this abortion lie, we have abandoned the principle of our freedom. Our rights don't come from God if they are based upon our mother's choice. And once we have banished God from the throne of that authority then we have no claim to liberty or dignity that cannot in the end be trampled down and destroyed by the superior power of force or wealth or ability. And one of the things this nation is suppose to stand for is the equal dignity of all, regardless of station, standing, intelligence, ability, whatever it might be. That acknowledgement that in every human being, in every human life, there is present a kernel of God's Word and divinity that must be respected by every human will and power whatsoever. But once we embrace the abortion lie we throw away that truth that is the foundation of our justice. And it is not the only area in which we are fast abandoning our acknowledgement of that sovereignty of God, we're doing it in our schools! I find it amazing. Here we live in a country, the first principle of which is "All men are created equal," and yet you go into our tax-funded, government dominated schools and it is forbidden to teach the concept of the Creator or even to acknowledge his existence or mention his name, much less speak as if His authority has meaning for our lives. You really think that the children in these new generations are going to grow up with the courage to stand firm for their liberty when they no longer acknowledge the authority from which that liberty is derived? Still think they're going to have the courage to stand against the vast array of human material powers when they no longer believe that their claim to dignity is sanctioned by an authority greater than those powers? See, I think that once you've convinced people that this material equation is all there is, you've put them in a position where when faced with overwhelming odds, they're going to surrender. And that has been the case throughout most of human history. Most people didn't fight against tyranny, they simply bowed down to it, surrendered to it. I often used to marvel as I read the accounts of all these great empires in history where a handful of human beings had managed to subjugate masses of millions. Ever wonder how that can happen? Well it happened because in the end, human beings are not subjugated by the force of sword and gun. They are shackled by the fears that darken the mind, that cloud the vision, that destroy the courage, that undermine the sense of dignity, that make people believe that in the end, whatever it is that is meeted out by power is their just desserts. Because might makes right, because force legitimizes everything. We live in a society where that ugly principle of destructive injustice was overturned and thrown aside in order to lay the foundation for that land whose freedom we enjoy but the foundations of which we are now neglecting. How much longer can we go on before we will fully reap the bitter fruits of that neglect? In terms of the destruction of our moral character and decency, I think over the last several years we've already seen that the fruits are already there, undermining and destroying our institutions at the highest level. And I don't only mean the lack of decency, the shameless lack of integrity of our 'President,' so called, Bill Clinton. I mean even more so the fact that those who should have called him to account for his shameless lying and disregard for the Constitution and the integrity of our institutions. Those sitting in the Congress and sitting in the Senate of the United States did not have the integrity to kick him out when he deserved to be gone. That's an indictment of their integrity, but it's also, I think, a telling warning of the extent of which we have lost our own. For they are our representatives, and you do at some point have to wonder whether they do not represent us all too well... For full transcript go to: http://www.keyes2000.org/issues_and_speeches/renew_t.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] [legality-of-income-tax] Prop. 1: 16th Amendment] (fwd) Date: 08 May 2000 09:09:20 PST On May 08, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] This post tells how we can buy out the Federal Reserve. Margi http://community.webtv.net/TLSTAR/tlstar http://community.webtv.net/TLSTAR/TLSTAR Reply-To: legality-of-income-tax@egroups.com Frankly, I think we need to go for the head of the beast, the Federal Reserve. Congress did not have the power to transfer any powers under the Constitution to a private corp. ie the power over our money supply. Getting rid of this Ponzi Scheme will get rid of the IRS (Internal Reign of Satan), too. The Federal Reserve Act allows the Congress to purchase the Assets of the Federal Reserve for the amount of the original investment by the International Banksters. I believe the figure was $144,000. One can only imagine the look on the face of a jury who learn the truth and knowledge about these Banksters. Visit Max, the CyberSpace Dog, on www.maxexchange.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 2:53 PM > All your questions are answered at http://truth-about-income-tax.com > What happened in the debates is pretty much water under the bridge at > this point. What the IRS goes on is case law. At the above site you > will find a 45 pg Memorandum on 200 years of income tax case law by > the Supreme Court, in chronological order for easy following of the > progress of income tax over the years. > > > >Hi everyone, > > > >Congress proposed and passed the income tax amendment (16th) in 1909. > > > >Let's set aside for the moment, for purposes of argument, the issue > >of the fraudulent ratification of the 16th amendment. Let's look > >further into the meaning of the amendment. > > > >What was the history of the bill? Who drafted it? What changes were > >made to it during its adoption process and why? What route did the > >proposed amendment take in the House and in the Senate? What > >committee? Is there a record of the floor debates? What analyses were > >performed on the proposed amendment, before and as it was passed, by > >people in the press and in academia? Is there a "bill jacket," in > >which one would find correspondence, pro and con, on the bill? > > > >From these sources we should be able to obtain a clear understanding > >as to the "intent of the framers" in Congress, in 1909, in proposing > >and passing the proposed amendment. > > > >I can also assert with absolute confidence that when a court is > >called upon to interpret the meaning of a constitutional provision it > >traditionally looks first at the plain meaning of the language and > >then to the "intent of the framers" of the provision. In deciding the > >"intent of the framers," courts traditionally look at what was > >happening in the years preceding the adoption of the constitutional > >provision, the legislative debates immediately preceding the adoption > >of the provision, and, finally, what happened in the years > >immediately following the passage of the provision. > > > >In the case of the meaning of the 16th amendment, we know that in the > >years preceding its purported ratification, there was no income tax > >without apportionment. We also know that immediately following the > >purported ratification of the 16th amendment there was an income tax > >without apportionment. What we haven't discussed is who introduced > >the bill in the House and in the Senate, what memorandum accompanied > >the bill, if any, who said what during the debates on the bill, and > >what do the private papers of the lead proponents and opponents say > >regarding the intent of the proposed amendment. Most private papers > >have, by now, been turned over to the Library of Congress. I learned > >recently that some 37 boxes of papers have been turned over to the > >Library of Congress by the descendents of Philander Knox. I have also > >learned that anyone can go to the Library of Congress, fill out a > >form, and have access to those private papers. > > > >Because the key rulings on the income tax were handed down between > >1915 and 1920, and because judges are not immune from "judicial > >activism" or outright corruption, we should also look to see who the > >judges of the U.S. Supreme Court were between 1908 and 1920, how many > >of them may have been appointed to the Court due to the influence of > >Philander Knox, who, as a U.S. Senator, and as U.S. Attorney General > >and as U.S. Secretay of State, was unquestionably serving the > >interests of the "robber barons" of the day that were pushing for the > >adoption of a central bank and the income tax. > > > >Has anyone seen the briefs as submitted by the appellant(s) and > >respondent(s) in the leading cases decided by the U.S. Supreme Court > >on the income tax of 1913? What questions were presented and raised, > >and were they all determined by the Court, or did the Court sidestep > >one or more? > > > >We should also compare the income tax of 1913 with the income tax of > >today. How do they differ? Would today's Supreme Court determine that > >today's income tax, which in no way resembles the income tax of 1913, > >is in the nature of "an indirect excise tax?" > > > >There are four or five "action items" built into the paragraphs > >above. Are there any volunteers? We can use your help, especially as > >we prepare for the June 29th showdown. Please step forward if you > >have some time to help. Do we need a "task force?" > > > >Bob Schulz [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 08 May 2000 15:12:04 -0700 It's interesting to read these messages, wich are rife with libertarian sounding phrases and expression and find myself (a Libertarian) disagreeing with so much. Larry Ball wrote: > > Sorry, Joe, all involuntary servitude (slavery) is not prohibited under the 13th > Amendment. Those convicted of crime can be forced to perform involuntary > servitude. Seems like a good idea to me. It would be better having these blokes > working an producing than sitting arround pumping iron, watching T.V. and > improving their sex lives. Sure it is legal, does that make it right? I can think of many crimes that produce what I consider -wrong- outcomes, many laws that I don't consider -ethical-. This may be one of 'em. B > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > Joe Sylvester wrote: > > > roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > > > > > > > >On May 05, david-ben..david wrote: > > > > > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > > > > >I have, in the past, contemplated the "cause" of slavery in ancient > > >times, why it was accepted and continued for millenia. The reason is > > >quite obvious considering their lack of socialist societies. If a > > >person had no family, was not landed, had no property, had no > > >employment, he/she became a vagabond and thus a threat to the people, > > >it being necessary to turn to crime to survive. > > > > > >Just my opinion, but, I think slavery was instituted either > > >for prevention or punishment for infraction of laws regarding theft > > >of > > >other people's property. It is easy to believe in slavery and > > >support it, even practice it, in a "truly civilized" society where > > >people look to their families for support rather than calling on > > >their > > >gov't to rape their neighbor of funds for support. The last line sure -sounds- Libertarian, but no libertarians I know object to the money spent on criminal justice. Many, like myself think that far more should go to that cause (at least for a time). > > Not hardly, slaves were either members of "other" groups, a nother tribe or > > people from another village, who were captured. Often the only purpose of > > the fighting they were captured in was to collect slaves. > > > > The African slaves that were brought to this country usually fell into this > > category, with the additional twist that the were caputured not to be the > > slaves of the capturors, although they did that too, but to be sold, first > > to other Africans, or to Arabs, who in turn sold them to the slavers who > > then distrubed them to various places, most importantly to the Americas. Slaves, wich in the history of the US means african slaves, were an economic commodity -especially- in the eyes of those who traded and transported them. I hope that's a point most here agree on (it seems obvious to me). > > > > > > >I look at all of these crack-heads walking the streets of America and > > >can't help but think that these people are totally out of control and > > >unable to help themselves, worthy only of slavery because of the > > >crimes which are committed in order to support their habit. I think this is a contradiction, though I generally avoid areas where such people would hang out so I might not know. If people are stealing to support their addiction it seems to me they are very tightly in control (of that theft and related anti social behaviour). I know that I could not live a life on the street, facing the daily violence of the narco terrorists we call "teen gangs" and go about stealing enough goods (figure, the fence is giving them 20-30% of used value) to support an illegal drug abuse habit without falling afoul of law enforcement. In a perverse way they are probably more focused and more "in control" in their drive to meet the needs of their sickness then I am in my drive to buy that new motorcycle or splurge on some Glenfiddich. Please be sure I am NOT compensating for their evil behaviour, just noting that they seem focussed and in control in the narrow sense of getting their next fix, in a way most people I know could never be (notably including myself ; ). So, what > > >do we do in reality? We incarcerate them, put them through > > >rehabilitation whether they want it or not, which seldom ever works > > >without desire on their part, letting the gov't rape us of our money > > >to accomplish this. No we don't. Very few prisoners get drug rehab, hell we don't even spend enough to prevent them from committing crimes (usually on one another) while they have forfeited their freedom to us (during their jail stay). I'm not sure that we should be doing the former but I think it's unethical to not be doing the latter. > > > > > >We say we do not believe in slavery. I say au contraire, we most > > >certainly do. We, the people, are the slaves, compelled to > > >financially subsidize the irresponsibility of these people, compelled > > >at the point of a gun by this communist perversion of a gov't to > > >cough > > >up the money, threatened with loss of our liberty and property unless > > >we cooperate with this extortion agenda which does little to help > > >those for whom it is intended, all the while fattening the pockets of > > >those involved with policing, jailing, judging, beaurocratically > > >managing and otherwise so-called treating these addicts. Had you talked about -taxes- I would agree. But seperating out the payment of the judicial system like this really muddies the water. If you only object to being forced (don't forget folks, you stop paying and the men with guns will come to -take- everything you think you own) to pay for part of what you are forced to pay for then I think your argument is not very sound IMO. > > > > We would be much better off if those "helped" by government handouts were > > required to perform some service to the rest of us, like picking up trash, > > sweeping the sidewalks, or whatever. This would give them both some true > > dignaty, since they would have at least partially *earned* their keep, and > > would also given them some incentive to get off the program, since if they > > have to peform "honest labor" anyway, they might as well do so in the > > private sector where wages and working conditions might be more favorable. > > I would set the rules and standards to inusre that private sector work > > would be more attractive. :) Are we talking about social welfare programs or about incarceration here or drawing some parallel?? You've made a zig and I can't seem to catch up with where the conversation has gone. Government handouts remove the disincentive to economic bad behaviour. That, is a BAD thing. "Improving" such systems by adding forced labor to them is also bad and could get the percentage of people currently dependent on those systems into thinking it's good for the government to tell them what to do in their daily lives, ight down to where to work for whom and when. Is -that- a step toward restoring our constitution? I think not. We need to devolve the power currently engorging our federal beuracracies not make it more "efficient" or "better". Wether or not you agree that smaller government is better, the wholesale warping of economic incentives that social welfare programs create is -bad-. SWelfare is -not- however criminal justice. It is an obvious and clear duty of a federal government to provide a system of criminal justice. That system is the white blood cells of our society and our societal self defense. The failure of ours paints a bright and parallel line to the decline of some of our society IMNSDHO. snip all IMO Boyd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Larry Ball Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 08 May 2000 20:01:01 -0500 Well, Boyd, I am NOT a libertarian. I am a Republican in the Constitutional sense and a populist in the individual sense. Aside from that I gather from your post that you would rather these dregs of society sit arround pumping iron, watching color TV and enjoying their deviant sex life? Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com boyd@seanet.com wrote: > It's interesting to read these messages, wich are rife with libertarian > sounding phrases and expression and find myself (a Libertarian) > disagreeing with so much. > > Larry Ball wrote: > > > > Sorry, Joe, all involuntary servitude (slavery) is not prohibited under the 13th > > Amendment. Those convicted of crime can be forced to perform involuntary > > servitude. Seems like a good idea to me. It would be better having these blokes > > working an producing than sitting arround pumping iron, watching T.V. and > > improving their sex lives. > Sure it is legal, does that make it right? I can think of many crimes > that produce what I consider -wrong- outcomes, many laws that I don't > consider -ethical-. This may be one of 'em. B > > > Larry Ball > > lball@inetnebr.com > > > > Joe Sylvester wrote: > > > > > roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >On May 05, david-ben..david wrote: > > > > > > > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > > > > > > >I have, in the past, contemplated the "cause" of slavery in ancient > > > >times, why it was accepted and continued for millenia. The reason is > > > >quite obvious considering their lack of socialist societies. If a > > > >person had no family, was not landed, had no property, had no > > > >employment, he/she became a vagabond and thus a threat to the people, > > > >it being necessary to turn to crime to survive. > > > > > > > >Just my opinion, but, I think slavery was instituted either > > > >for prevention or punishment for infraction of laws regarding theft > > > >of > > > >other people's property. It is easy to believe in slavery and > > > >support it, even practice it, in a "truly civilized" society where > > > >people look to their families for support rather than calling on > > > >their > > > >gov't to rape their neighbor of funds for support. > > The last line sure -sounds- Libertarian, but no libertarians I know > object to the money spent on criminal justice. Many, like myself think > that far more should go to that cause (at least for a time). > > > > Not hardly, slaves were either members of "other" groups, a nother tribe or > > > people from another village, who were captured. Often the only purpose of > > > the fighting they were captured in was to collect slaves. > > > > > > The African slaves that were brought to this country usually fell into this > > > category, with the additional twist that the were caputured not to be the > > > slaves of the capturors, although they did that too, but to be sold, first > > > to other Africans, or to Arabs, who in turn sold them to the slavers who > > > then distrubed them to various places, most importantly to the Americas. > > Slaves, wich in the history of the US means african slaves, were an > economic commodity -especially- in the eyes of those who traded and > transported them. I hope that's a point most here agree on (it seems > obvious to me). > > > > > > > > > > >I look at all of these crack-heads walking the streets of America and > > > >can't help but think that these people are totally out of control and > > > >unable to help themselves, worthy only of slavery because of the > > > >crimes which are committed in order to support their habit. > > I think this is a contradiction, though I generally avoid areas where > such people would hang out so I might not know. If people are stealing > to support their addiction it seems to me they are very tightly in > control (of that theft and related anti social behaviour). I know that I > could not live a life on the street, facing the daily violence of the > narco terrorists we call "teen gangs" and go about stealing enough goods > (figure, the fence is giving them 20-30% of used value) to support an > illegal drug abuse habit without falling afoul of law enforcement. In a > perverse way they are probably more focused and more "in control" in > their drive to meet the needs of their sickness then I am in my drive to > buy that new motorcycle or splurge on some Glenfiddich. Please be sure I > am NOT compensating for their evil behaviour, just noting that they seem > focussed and in control in the narrow sense of getting their next fix, > in a way most people I know could never be (notably including myself ; > ). > > So, what > > > >do we do in reality? We incarcerate them, put them through > > > >rehabilitation whether they want it or not, which seldom ever works > > > >without desire on their part, letting the gov't rape us of our money > > > >to accomplish this. > > No we don't. Very few prisoners get drug rehab, hell we don't even spend > enough to prevent them from committing crimes (usually on one another) > while they have forfeited their freedom to us (during their jail stay). > I'm not sure that we should be doing the former but I think it's > unethical to not be doing the latter. > > > > > > > > >We say we do not believe in slavery. I say au contraire, we most > > > >certainly do. We, the people, are the slaves, compelled to > > > >financially subsidize the irresponsibility of these people, compelled > > > >at the point of a gun by this communist perversion of a gov't to > > > >cough > > > >up the money, threatened with loss of our liberty and property unless > > > >we cooperate with this extortion agenda which does little to help > > > >those for whom it is intended, all the while fattening the pockets of > > > >those involved with policing, jailing, judging, beaurocratically > > > >managing and otherwise so-called treating these addicts. > > Had you talked about -taxes- I would agree. But seperating out the > payment of the judicial system like this really muddies the water. If > you only object to being forced (don't forget folks, you stop paying and > the men with guns will come to -take- everything you think you own) to > pay for part of what you are forced to pay for then I think your > argument is not very sound IMO. > > > > > > > We would be much better off if those "helped" by government handouts were > > > required to perform some service to the rest of us, like picking up trash, > > > sweeping the sidewalks, or whatever. This would give them both some true > > > dignaty, since they would have at least partially *earned* their keep, and > > > would also given them some incentive to get off the program, since if they > > > have to peform "honest labor" anyway, they might as well do so in the > > > private sector where wages and working conditions might be more favorable. > > > I would set the rules and standards to inusre that private sector work > > > would be more attractive. :) > > Are we talking about social welfare programs or about incarceration here > or drawing some parallel?? You've made a zig and I can't seem to catch > up with where the conversation has gone. Government handouts remove the > disincentive to economic bad behaviour. That, is a BAD thing. > "Improving" such systems by adding forced labor to them is also bad and > could get the percentage of people currently dependent on those systems > into thinking it's good for the government to tell them what to do in > their daily lives, ight down to where to work for whom and when. Is > -that- a step toward restoring our constitution? I think not. We need to > devolve the power currently engorging our federal beuracracies not make > it more "efficient" or "better". Wether or not you agree that smaller > government is better, the wholesale warping of economic incentives that > social welfare programs create is -bad-. > SWelfare is -not- however criminal justice. It is an obvious and clear > duty of a federal government to provide a system of criminal justice. > That system is the white blood cells of our society and our societal > self defense. The failure of ours paints a bright and parallel line to > the decline of some of our society IMNSDHO. > > snip > all IMO Boyd > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [newsucanuse] VIN -- more "wilderness" (fwd) Date: 09 May 2000 08:09:56 PST On May 9, SlickEditor@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Extremists want millions more acres fenced off Stumbling across a wild animal or a breathtaking vista in some remote area is a memorable experience. Wanting to preserve at least the possibility of such an experience for younger generations is admirable. To the extent that philanthropists and private outfits like the Nature Conservancy can buy up unique pieces of fertile wildlife habitat, maintaining them in a natural state either through voluntary donations or (where appropriate) fee-based camping or even hunting at a level designed to mimic prehistoric predation, such efforts should be encouraged -- perhaps even through tax waivers. And surely the government should stop building lumber roads at taxpayer expense, without which active forestry in remote areas would be economically prohibitive -- a typical result of leaving such lands under "collective," political control. But it's much more tempting to use the might of government to indulge one's nostalgic reverie of the forest primeval, isn't it, forcing one's half-baked notions of "wilderness" on the residents of distant places -- even on private property owners whose losses you'll never actually have to see? America was born in the spirit of men and women courageous enough to go into the wilderness and tame it. They did this to win a measure of personal and economic freedom unknown in Europe, where all land was considered to be first the property of the crown, subsequently divided among the feudal aristocracy based on military and political expediency. A "right to be secure in his home"? Not if the peasant's cottage was provided only at the pleasure of the local baron. And don't today's most extreme environmentalists really seek a return to such a pre-revolutionary regime -- at least here in the distant West -- with the federal government now conveniently filling the role of Prince John, who owned "all the deer in the forest"? A coalition of radical environmental groups led by The Wilderness Society is now petitioning Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt to renounce the inventory of federal wilderness lands conducted in the late '70s under President Jimmy Carter. Instead, they seek to arbitrarily declare hundreds of millions of additional federally-controlled acres to be de facto "wilderness" -- under a new definition meaning fenced off and guarded by armed men against human travel, mining, grazing, or other uses "until a more detailed wilderness inventory can be completed." Which is to say, forever. As it is, the Bureau of Land Management has set aside 5.1 million acres of Nevada (just for example) as "wilderness study areas" -- areas which Congress has not identified as wilderness, mind you, but which are still "managed as de facto wilderness" -- off limits to new roads, off-road vehicles, mining claims, or virtually any other human use until such time as someone can get around to "completing their study." The BLM is now recommending that 1.8 million of those acres be retained for "wilderness" in the Silver State, while the rest should be returned to "multiple use" -- still a far cry from being paved over as parking lots. But John Wallin, coordinator of the Nevada Wilderness Project, complains that the original BLM inventory arbitrarily eliminated another 10 to 44 million acres of land that could and should have been considered "wilderness." Such extremists contend the BLM missed "50 to 70 percent of the wilderness out here" in their original inventory. "This petition is coming at a time when the BLM is shifting toward becoming a greener agency," explains Bill Meadows, president of the Wilderness Society. In truth, the Republican Congress has made some modest improvements in restoring land rights since that party swept to power in 1994. For instance, Congress managed to block some of the most onerous provisions of the original National Biological Survey, under which private land owners were to be blackmailed with automatic "endangered species habitat" designations of their property (marking huge parcels off limits even to farming) unless they "voluntarily" allowed federal officials to trespass on their properties in search of "threatened" rats and bugs. In truth, what the green extremists really sense now is that the approaching end of the Clinton-Gore administration puts them under a short deadline to get additional millions of acres "set aside," out of the reach of "greedy exploiters" who might want to increase the nation's timber and mineral and agricultural wealth, feeding their own families and improving the standard of living for the whole world in the process. It is a measure of the wealth of this nation that we can even toy with such notions. But make no mistake -- abandon the traditions of entrepreneurship, sharply limited government power, and private property rights which created our national wealth, and it can still change. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. **** SPECIAL OFFER **** "Waco: A New Revelation" the new video by MGA Films. Normally $29.95 + s/h. Mention of Rich Slick and pay $27.50 and get FREE delivery. Credit card call: 888-658-2913 or mail check or money order to: CDS Dept RS P.O. Box 14002 Fort Worth, TX 76117 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 09 May 2000 09:41:09 -0700 Larry Ball wrote: > > Well, Boyd, I am NOT a libertarian. I am a Republican in the Constitutional sense and > a populist in the individual sense. Aside from that I gather from your post that you > would rather these dregs of society sit arround pumping iron, watching color TV and > enjoying their deviant sex life? Taking your last point first, their "deviant sex life" is ILLEGAL. It was MY POST that pointed out our ethical obligation to stop these people from committing crime while in our jails so why are you painting me here as some sort of pro rape, pro drug abuse pro socialist welfare state poster? Please -think- before you reply, if you don't understand what's said ask questions and for the record I didn't say anyone here was Libertarian, I said many were using phrases that sounded to me like Libertarian words (said it clearly, at the very top of the reply). Boyd Kneeland NRA, JPFO, LP and former longtime GOP area chair. > > Larry Ball > lball@inetnebr.com > > boyd@seanet.com wrote: > > > It's interesting to read these messages, wich are rife with libertarian > > sounding phrases and expression and find myself (a Libertarian) > > disagreeing with so much. > > > > Larry Ball wrote: > > > > > > Sorry, Joe, all involuntary servitude (slavery) is not prohibited under the 13th > > > Amendment. Those convicted of crime can be forced to perform involuntary > > > servitude. Seems like a good idea to me. It would be better having these blokes > > > working an producing than sitting arround pumping iron, watching T.V. and > > > improving their sex lives. > > Sure it is legal, does that make it right? I can think of many crimes > > that produce what I consider -wrong- outcomes, many laws that I don't > > consider -ethical-. This may be one of 'em. B > > > > > Larry Ball > > > lball@inetnebr.com > > > > > > Joe Sylvester wrote: > > > > > > > roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On May 05, david-ben..david wrote: > > > > > > > > > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > > > > > > > > >I have, in the past, contemplated the "cause" of slavery in ancient > > > > >times, why it was accepted and continued for millenia. The reason is > > > > >quite obvious considering their lack of socialist societies. If a > > > > >person had no family, was not landed, had no property, had no > > > > >employment, he/she became a vagabond and thus a threat to the people, > > > > >it being necessary to turn to crime to survive. > > > > > > > > > >Just my opinion, but, I think slavery was instituted either > > > > >for prevention or punishment for infraction of laws regarding theft > > > > >of > > > > >other people's property. It is easy to believe in slavery and > > > > >support it, even practice it, in a "truly civilized" society where > > > > >people look to their families for support rather than calling on > > > > >their > > > > >gov't to rape their neighbor of funds for support. > > > > The last line sure -sounds- Libertarian, but no libertarians I know > > object to the money spent on criminal justice. Many, like myself think > > that far more should go to that cause (at least for a time). > > > > > > Not hardly, slaves were either members of "other" groups, a nother tribe or > > > > people from another village, who were captured. Often the only purpose of > > > > the fighting they were captured in was to collect slaves. > > > > > > > > The African slaves that were brought to this country usually fell into this > > > > category, with the additional twist that the were caputured not to be the > > > > slaves of the capturors, although they did that too, but to be sold, first > > > > to other Africans, or to Arabs, who in turn sold them to the slavers who > > > > then distrubed them to various places, most importantly to the Americas. > > > > Slaves, wich in the history of the US means african slaves, were an > > economic commodity -especially- in the eyes of those who traded and > > transported them. I hope that's a point most here agree on (it seems > > obvious to me). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I look at all of these crack-heads walking the streets of America and > > > > >can't help but think that these people are totally out of control and > > > > >unable to help themselves, worthy only of slavery because of the > > > > >crimes which are committed in order to support their habit. > > > > I think this is a contradiction, though I generally avoid areas where > > such people would hang out so I might not know. If people are stealing > > to support their addiction it seems to me they are very tightly in > > control (of that theft and related anti social behaviour). I know that I > > could not live a life on the street, facing the daily violence of the > > narco terrorists we call "teen gangs" and go about stealing enough goods > > (figure, the fence is giving them 20-30% of used value) to support an > > illegal drug abuse habit without falling afoul of law enforcement. In a > > perverse way they are probably more focused and more "in control" in > > their drive to meet the needs of their sickness then I am in my drive to > > buy that new motorcycle or splurge on some Glenfiddich. Please be sure I > > am NOT compensating for their evil behaviour, just noting that they seem > > focussed and in control in the narrow sense of getting their next fix, > > in a way most people I know could never be (notably including myself ; > > ). > > > > So, what > > > > >do we do in reality? We incarcerate them, put them through > > > > >rehabilitation whether they want it or not, which seldom ever works > > > > >without desire on their part, letting the gov't rape us of our money > > > > >to accomplish this. > > > > No we don't. Very few prisoners get drug rehab, hell we don't even spend > > enough to prevent them from committing crimes (usually on one another) > > while they have forfeited their freedom to us (during their jail stay). > > I'm not sure that we should be doing the former but I think it's > > unethical to not be doing the latter. > > > > > > > > > > > >We say we do not believe in slavery. I say au contraire, we most > > > > >certainly do. We, the people, are the slaves, compelled to > > > > >financially subsidize the irresponsibility of these people, compelled > > > > >at the point of a gun by this communist perversion of a gov't to > > > > >cough > > > > >up the money, threatened with loss of our liberty and property unless > > > > >we cooperate with this extortion agenda which does little to help > > > > >those for whom it is intended, all the while fattening the pockets of > > > > >those involved with policing, jailing, judging, beaurocratically > > > > >managing and otherwise so-called treating these addicts. > > > > Had you talked about -taxes- I would agree. But seperating out the > > payment of the judicial system like this really muddies the water. If > > you only object to being forced (don't forget folks, you stop paying and > > the men with guns will come to -take- everything you think you own) to > > pay for part of what you are forced to pay for then I think your > > argument is not very sound IMO. > > > > > > > > > > We would be much better off if those "helped" by government handouts were > > > > required to perform some service to the rest of us, like picking up trash, > > > > sweeping the sidewalks, or whatever. This would give them both some true > > > > dignaty, since they would have at least partially *earned* their keep, and > > > > would also given them some incentive to get off the program, since if they > > > > have to peform "honest labor" anyway, they might as well do so in the > > > > private sector where wages and working conditions might be more favorable. > > > > I would set the rules and standards to inusre that private sector work > > > > would be more attractive. :) > > > > Are we talking about social welfare programs or about incarceration here > > or drawing some parallel?? You've made a zig and I can't seem to catch > > up with where the conversation has gone. Government handouts remove the > > disincentive to economic bad behaviour. That, is a BAD thing. > > "Improving" such systems by adding forced labor to them is also bad and > > could get the percentage of people currently dependent on those systems > > into thinking it's good for the government to tell them what to do in > > their daily lives, ight down to where to work for whom and when. Is > > -that- a step toward restoring our constitution? I think not. We need to > > devolve the power currently engorging our federal beuracracies not make > > it more "efficient" or "better". Wether or not you agree that smaller > > government is better, the wholesale warping of economic incentives that > > social welfare programs create is -bad-. > > SWelfare is -not- however criminal justice. It is an obvious and clear > > duty of a federal government to provide a system of criminal justice. > > That system is the white blood cells of our society and our societal > > self defense. The failure of ours paints a bright and parallel line to > > the decline of some of our society IMNSDHO. > > > > snip > > all IMO Boyd > > > > - > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Sylvester Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) Date: 09 May 2000 21:54:03 -0500 >Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 15:12:04 -0700 >From: boyd@seanet.com >Subject: Re: Slavery, an honest look (fwd) > >It's interesting to read these messages, wich are rife with libertarian >sounding phrases and expression and find myself (a Libertarian) >disagreeing with so much. > >Larry Ball wrote: >> >> Sorry, Joe, all involuntary servitude (slavery) is not prohibited under the 13th >> Amendment. Those convicted of crime can be forced to perform involuntary >> servitude. Seems like a good idea to me. It would be better having these blokes >> working an producing than sitting arround pumping iron, watching T.V. and >> improving their sex lives. >Sure it is legal, does that make it right? I can think of many crimes >that produce what I consider -wrong- outcomes, many laws that I don't >consider -ethical-. This may be one of 'em. B I never said the 13th abolished involuntary servitude, just slavery, which is involuntary servitude not based on due process conviction of a crime. I don't think it would even outlaw the practice of indentured servitude, since that's merely a contract. The law may set limits on what terms such contracts can contain, but I don't think the 13th prohibits the arrangement. > >> Larry Ball >> lball@inetnebr.com >> >> Joe Sylvester wrote: >> >> > roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: >> > >> > Not hardly, slaves were either members of "other" groups, a nother tribe or >> > people from another village, who were captured. Often the only purpose of >> > the fighting they were captured in was to collect slaves. >> > >> > The African slaves that were brought to this country usually fell into this >> > category, with the additional twist that the were caputured not to be the >> > slaves of the capturors, although they did that too, but to be sold, first >> > to other Africans, or to Arabs, who in turn sold them to the slavers who >> > then distrubed them to various places, most importantly to the Americas. > >Slaves, wich in the history of the US means african slaves, were an >economic commodity -especially- in the eyes of those who traded and >transported them. I hope that's a point most here agree on (it seems >obvious to me). > Pretty much what I said, disagreeing with the earlier post. ... >> > We would be much better off if those "helped" by government handouts were >> > required to perform some service to the rest of us, like picking up trash, >> > sweeping the sidewalks, or whatever. This would give them both some true >> > dignaty, since they would have at least partially *earned* their keep, and >> > would also given them some incentive to get off the program, since if they >> > have to peform "honest labor" anyway, they might as well do so in the >> > private sector where wages and working conditions might be more favorable. >> > I would set the rules and standards to inusre that private sector work >> > would be more attractive. :) > >Are we talking about social welfare programs or about incarceration here >or drawing some parallel?? You've made a zig and I can't seem to catch >up with where the conversation has gone. Government handouts remove the >disincentive to economic bad behaviour. That, is a BAD thing. That's because cause you are confusing my replies with the comments I was replying to. >"Improving" such systems by adding forced labor to them is also bad and >could get the percentage of people currently dependent on those systems >into thinking it's good for the government to tell them what to do in >their daily lives, ight down to where to work for whom and when. Is >- -that- a step toward restoring our constitution? I think not. We need to >devolve the power currently engorging our federal beuracracies not make >it more "efficient" or "better". Wether or not you agree that smaller >government is better, the wholesale warping of economic incentives that >social welfare programs create is -bad-. >SWelfare is -not- however criminal justice. It is an obvious and clear >duty of a federal government to provide a system of criminal justice. >That system is the white blood cells of our society and our societal >self defense. The failure of ours paints a bright and parallel line to >the decline of some of our society IMNSDHO. > >snip >all IMO Boyd You missed few levels of attribution there. However I wasn't suggesting *forced* labor, you are completely free to not work, and we, via the government, should also then be free not to pay you. As I said the "pay" would be below market rates for "real" work, so as to still provide incentives for getting out of the system. I wouldn't worry though, making welfare folks really work, as opposed to "look for work", and at undesirale tasks no less, would surely be seen as some form of discrimination, in spite of the fact that there are probably more members of the majority "race" on welfare than of "minorities". (Not a higher percentage, just raw numbers) The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution. ---Doug McKay" Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: SENATE GUN/EDUCATION (fwd) Date: 10 May 2000 10:35:50 PST On May 10, wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] CQ MONITOR NEWS SENATE REJECTS MIDDLE GROUND ON ESEA, LAYS BILL ASIDE By Andrew D. Beadle, CQ Staff Writer May 9, 2000 - The Senate Tuesday resoundingly rejected an amendment to a mammoth education bill (S 2), dashing the hopes of centrist Democrats that it could bridge the gulf between the two parties. Joseph I. Lieberman, D-Conn., garnered just 13 votes for his amendment, only three votes beyond the amendment's 10 cosponsors. Lieberman and other moderate "New Democrats" had cast the amendment as a middle ground between the Republican bill and the Democratic Party's priorities. Republicans are pushing for greater flexibility in using federal education funds at the local level, while Democrats want to continue targeting funds for specific programs and student populations. The Senate rejected the Democrats' primary substitute amendment last week on a straight party line vote. The underlying bill would authorize programs under the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA), last authorized in 1994 (PL 103-382), which is the federal blueprint for education programs. *Neither party satisfied. As much as Lieberman may have hyped his proposal as a middle ground, Republicans and Democrats alike rejected it because it differed too much from each party's priorities. "I think both sides weren't willing to give up enough," said Democratic Conference Secretary Harry Reid, Nev. Democrats said 30 states would have received less federal aid for disadvantaged students under Title I of the act under Lieberman's proposal than they would receive if no changes were made to current law. In addition, they said, the Lieberman proposal would have established block grants for other programs, and would have restricted after-school spending. Lieberman and his supporters agreed that the proposal was a new approach to federal education funding. "Our approach would refocus our national policy on helping students and local school districts raise academic achievement for all children," Lieberman said. Republicans said the Lieberman proposal was too prescriptive and did not grant enough flexibility to states and school districts. * Liability provision. In addition to rejecting the Lieberman amendment, the Senate adopted, 97-0, an amendment offered by Judd Gregg, R-N.H., and Majority Leader Trent Lott, Miss., that would give liability protection to school personnel who discipline or restrain disruptive students. It also would allow states and local communities to use their portion of the $2 billion authorized for professional development and reducing class sizes to address the shortage of "high quality" teachers. And it would authorize a new $50 million program to encourage mid-career professionals and top college graduates to teach. * Further action postponed. Although the Senate began debate on another amendment Tuesday evening, further action on the bill is unlikely the rest of week. Lott temporarily set aside the bill to allow consideration of a conference report on trade with African and Caribbean nations (HR 434) and of appropriations bills. Lott said he hopes to resume consideration of the education bill next week. Setting the bill aside also allows Republicans to avoid casting any votes on gun> amendments that Democrats planned to offer this week. The timing was critical for the Democrats because thousands of activists will be in Washington this Sunday to support tougher control laws as part of the Million Mom March. Republicans flatly denied they were trying to avoid any such vote. "The answer is no," said Lott spokesman John Czwartacki. "It's a way to get all our business done in an efficient way." Regardless, Democrats vowed not to drop the > Copyright 1983-2000 Congressional Quarterly Inc. All Rights Reserved. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NAZI Mind-set in America (3/3) (fwd) Date: 10 May 2000 18:59:41 PST On May 10, odellh@juno.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] explained, is secondary; what counts is the issue of control. Private citizens, therefore, may continue to hold titles to property - so long as the state reserves to itself the unqualified right to regulate the use of their property." What American objects to these principles of the Nazi economic system? Don't most Americans favor the planned economy, the regulated economy, the controlled economy? Don't most Americans favor the type of economic controls, high taxes, government-business partnerships, licensing, permits, and a myriad other economic regulations? The truth is that Hayek's warning was ignored. Having defeated the Nazis in battle, Americans became ardent supporters and advocates of Nazi economic policies. Why? Part of the answer lies in another feature that was central to the Nazi way of life - public schooling: "On, No! You have gone too far this time," the average American will exclaim. "Public schooling is a distinctively American institution - as American as apple pie and free enterprise." The truth as Sheldon Richman documents so well in his new book, Separating School & State, 20th-century Americans adopted the idea of a state schooling system in the latter part of the 19th century from - you guessed it - Prussia! And as Mr. Richman points out, public schooling has proven as successful in the United States as it did in Germany. Why? Because it has succeeded in its goal of producing a nation of "good, little citizens" - people who pay their taxes on time, follow the rules, obey orders, condemn and turn in the rule breakers, and see themselves as essential cogs in the national wheel. Consider the words of Richard Ebeling, in his introduction to Separating School & State: "In the hands of the state, compulsory public education becomes a tool for political control and manipulation - a prime instrument for the thought police of the society. And precisely because every child passes through the same indoctrination process - learning the same "official history" the same "civic virtues," the same lessons of obedience and loyalty to the state - it becomes extremely difficult for the independent soul to free himself from the straight jacket of the ideology and values the political authorities wish to imprint upon the population under its jurisdiction. For the communists, it was the class struggle and obedience to the Party and Comrade Stalin; for the fascists, it was worship of the nation-state and obedience to the Duce; for the Nazis it was race purity and obedience to the Fuhrer. The content has varied, but the form has remained the same. Through the institution of compulsory state education; the child is to be molded like wax into the shape desired by the state and its educational elite." We should not believe that because ours is a freer, more democratic society, the same imprinting procedure has not occurred even here, in America. Every generation of school-age children has imprinted upon it a politically correct ideology concerning America's past and the sanctity of the role of the state in society. Practically every child in the public school system learns that the "robber barons" of the 19th century exploited the common working man; that unregulated capitalism needed to be harnessed by enlightened government regulation beginning in the Progressive era at the turn-of-the-century; that wild Wall Street speculation was a primary cause of the Great Depression; that only Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal saved America from catastrophe; and that American intervention in foreign wars has been necessary and inevitable, with the United States government required to be a global leader and an occasional world policeman. This brings us to the heart of the problem, the core of the Nazi mind-set: that the interests of the individual must be subordinated to the interests of the nation. This is the principle that controls the minds of the American people, just as it controlled the minds of the German people sixty years ago. Each person is viewed like a bee in a hive; his primary role in life is to serve the hive and the ruler of the hive, and to be sacrificed when the hive and its ruler consider it necessary. This is why Americans of our time, unlike their ancestors, favor such things as income taxation, Social Security, socialized medicine, and drug laws; they believe, as did Germans in the 1930's, that their bodies, lives, income, and property; in the final analysis, are subordinate to the interests of the nation. As you read the following words of Adolf Hitler, ask yourself which American politician, which American bureaucrat, which American schoolteacher, which American citizen would disagree with the principles to which Hitler subscribed: "It is thus necessary that the individual should finally come to realize that his own ego is of no importance in comparison with the existence of his nation; that the position of the individual ego is conditioned solely by the interests of the nation as a whole; that pride and conceitedness; the feeling that the individual... is superior, so far from being merely laughable, involve great dangers for the existence of the community that is a nation; that above all the unity of a nation's spirit and will are worth far more than the freedom of the spirit and will of an individual; and that the higher interests involved in the life of the whole must here set the limits and lay down the duties of the interests of the individual." Even though the average American enthusiastically supports the Nazi economic philosophy, he recoils at having his beliefs labeled as "Nazi". Why? Because, he argues, the Nazi government, unlike the US government, killed six million people in concentration camps; and this mass murder of millions of people, rather than economic philosophy, captures the true essence of the Nazi label. What Americans fail (or refuse) to recognize is that the concentration camps were simply the logical extension of the Nazi mind-set! It does not matter whether there were six million killed - or six hundred - or six - or even one. The evil, the terrible, black evil - is the belief that a government should have the power to sacrifice even one individual for the good of the nation. Once this basic philosophical premise and political power are conceded, innocent people, beginning with a few and inevitably ending in multitudes; will be killed, because "the good of the nation" always ends up requiring it. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NAZI Mind-set in America (1/30 (fwd) Date: 10 May 2000 19:07:50 PST On May 10, odellh@juno.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance, which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime----and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran (1750-1817) --------- Forwarded message ---------- Message-ID: <20000510.102645.-303209.1.schulz.h@juno.com> Thanks for sending out your letter and the Nazi mind-set reply. Below, for your consideration in reply to the letter, I've copied some articles I've previously sent out that you may want to review before replying. Herb ***************** National Socialism Business Under Nazis Ralph R. Reiland In 1944, Ludwig von Mises published one of his least-known masterworks: Omnipotent Government: The Rise of the Total State and Total War. Drawing on his prewar experience in Vienna, watching the rise of the national socialists in Germany (the Nazis), who would eventually take over his own homeland, he set out to draw parallels between the Russian and German experience with socialism. It was common in those days, as it is in ours, to identify the Communists as leftist and the Nazis as rightists, as if they stood on opposite ends of the ideological spectrum. But Mises knew differently. They both sported the same ideological pedigree of socialism. "The German and Russian systems of socialism have in common the fact that the government has full control of the means of production. It decides what shall be produced and how. It allots to each individual a share of consumer's goods for his consumption." The difference between the systems, wrote Mises, is that the German pattern "maintains private ownership of the means of production and keeps the appearance of ordinary prices, wages, and markets." But in fact the government directs production decisions, curbs entrepreneurship and the labor market, and determines wages and interest rates by central authority. "Market exchange," says Mises, "is only a sham." Mises's account is confirmed by a remarkable book that appeared in 1939, published by Vanguard Press in New York City (and unfortunately out of print today). It is The Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism by Guenter Reimann, then a 35-year old German writer. Through contacts with German business owners, Reimann documented how the "monster machine" of the Nazis crushed the autonomy of the private sector through onerous regulations, harsh inspections, and the threat of confiscatory fines for petty offenses. "Industrialists were visited by state auditors who had strict orders to examine the balance sheets and all bookkeeping entries of the company or individual businessman for the preceding two, three or more years until some error or false entry was found," explains Reimann. "The slightest formal mistake was punished with tremendous penalties. A fine of millions of marks was imposed for a single bookkeeping error." Reimann quotes from a businessman's letter: "You have no idea how far state control goes and how much power the Nazi representatives have over our work. The worst of it is that they are so ignorant. These Nazi radicals think of nothing except distributing the wealth.' Some businessmen have even started studying Marxist theories, so that they will have a better understanding of the present economic system. "While state representatives are busily engaged in investigating and interfering, our agents and salesmen are handicapped because they never know whether or not a sale at a higher price will mean denunciation as a profiteer' or saboteur,' followed by a prison sentence. You cannot imagine how taxation has increased. Yet everyone is afraid to complain. Everywhere there is a growing undercurrent of bitterness. Everyone has his doubts about the system, unless he is very young, very stupid, or is bound to it by the privileges he enjoys. "There are terrible times coming. If only I had succeeded in smuggling out $10,000 or even $5,000, I would leave Germany with my family. Business friends of mine are convinced that it will be the turn of the white Jews' (which means us, Aryan businessmen) after the Jews have been expropriated. The difference between this and the Russian system is much less than you think, despite the fact that we are still independent businessmen." As Mises says, "independent" only in a decorous sense. Under fascism, explains this businessman, the capitalist "must be servile to the representatives of the state" and "must not insist on rights, and must not behave as if his private property rights were still sacred." It's the businessman, characteristically independent, who is "most likely to get into trouble with the Gestapo for having grumbled incautiously." "Of all businessmen, the small shopkeeper is the one most under control and most at the mercy of the party," recounts Reimann. "The party man, whose good will he must have, does not live in faraway Berlin; he lives right next door or right around the corner. This local Hitler gets a report every day on what is discussed in Herr Schultz's bakery and Herr Schmidt's butcher shop. He would regard these men as enemies of the state' if they complained too much. That would mean, at the very least, the cutting of their quota of scarce and hence highly desirable goods, and it might mean the loss of their business licenses. Small shopkeepers and artisans are not to grumble." "Officials, trained only to obey orders, have neither the desire, the equipment, nor the vision to modify rules to suit individual situations," Reimann explains. "The state bureaucrats, therefore, apply these laws rigidly and mechanically, without regard for the vital interests of essential parts of the national economy. Their only incentive to modify the letter of the law is in bribes from businessmen, who for their part use bribery as their only means of obtaining relief from a rigidity which they find crippling." Says another businessman: "Each business move has become very complicated and is full of legal traps which the average businessman cannot determine because there are so many new decrees. All of us in business are [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NAZI Mind-set in America (2/3) (fwd) Date: 10 May 2000 19:04:00 PST On May 10, odellh@juno.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] constantly in fear of being penalized for the violation of some decree or law." Business owners, explains another entrepreneur, cannot exist without a "collaborator," i.e., a "lawyer" with good contacts in the Nazi bureaucracy, one who "knows exactly how far you can circumvent the law." Nazi officials, explains Reimann, "obtain money for themselves by merely taking it from capitalists who have funds available with which to purchase influence and protection," paying for their protection "as did the helpless peasants of feudal days." "It has gotten to the point where I cannot talk even in my own factory," laments a factory owner. "Accidentally, one of the workers overheard me grumbling about some new bureaucratic regulation and he immediately denounced me to the party and the Labor Front office." Reports another factory owner: "The greater part of the week I don't see my factory at all. All this time I spend in visiting dozens of government commissions and offices in order to get raw materials I need. Then there are various tax problems to settle and I must have continual conferences and negotiations with the Price Commission. It sometimes seems as if I do nothing but that, and everywhere I go there are more leaders, party secretaries, and commissars to see." In this totalitarian paradigm, a businessman, declares a Nazi decree, "practices his functions primarily as a representative of the State, only secondarily for his own sake." Complain, warns a Nazi directive, and "we shall take away the freedom still left you." In 1933, six years before Reimann's book, Victor Klemperer, a Jewish academic in Dresden, made the following entry in his diary on February 21: "It is a disgrace that gets worse with every day that passes. And there's not a sound from anyone. Everyone's keeping his head down." It is impossible to escape the parallels between Guenter Reimann's account of doing business under the Nazis and the "compassionate," "responsible," and regulated "capitalism" of today's U.S. economy today. At least the German government was frank enough to give the right name to its system of economic control. _________ Ralph R. Reiland, owner of Amel's Restaurant in Pittsburgh, is associate professor of economics at Robert Morris College. Further Reading: Ludwig von Mises, Omnipotent Government (Libertarian Press, [1944] 1985); Guenter Reimann, The Vampire Economy: Doing Business Under Fascism (Vanguard Press, 1939); F.A. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom (Chicago, 1947). Books by Mises and Hayek are available in our on-line catalog. c) copyright The Ludwig von Mises Institute, 1998 ************************************************************* The NAZI Mind-set in America By Jacob G. Hornberger [An article by Mr. Hornberger which appeared in The Observer, August 16, 1995, explains how the American people came to accept the same economic and statist policies that American GI's fought and died to defeat. Mr. Hornberger is with the Future of Freedom Foundation, Fairfax, Virginia. Ph. 703-934-6101] Before the end of World War II, in 1944, Friedrich A. Hayek, who was later to win the Nobel memorial prize in economic science, startled the Western world with a book entitled The Road to Serfdom. Hayek argued that despite the war against Nazi Germany, the economic philosophy of the Nazis and communists was becoming the guiding light for American and British policy makers. In his forward to the 1972 edition of the book, Hayek wrote: "But after war broke out I felt that this widespread misunderstanding of the political systems of our enemies, and soon also of our new ally, Russia, constituted a serious danger which had to be met by a more systematic effort. Also, it was already fairly obvious that England herself was likely to experiment after the war with the same kind of policies which I was convinced had contributed so much to destroy liberty elsewhere... Opinion moves fast in the United States, and even now it is difficult to remember how comparatively short a time it was before The Road to Serfdom appeared that the most extreme kind of economic planning had been seriously advocated and the model of Russia held up for imitation by men who were soon to play an important role in public affairs... Be it enough to mention that in 1934 the newly established National Planning Board devoted a good deal of attention to the example of planning provided by these four countries: Germany, Italy, Russia, and Japan." As the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II approaches, Americans must ask themselves a troubling question: Did Hayek's concerns become reality - have Americans, in fact, traveled the road to serfdom the past fifty years? Or, put another way, did the Nazis lose the military battles but win the war for the hearts and minds of the American people? Consider, for example, the Nazi economic system. Who can argue that the American people do not believe in and support most of its tenents? For example, how many Americans today do not unequivocally support the following planks of the Nationalist Socialist (NAZI) Party of Germany, adopted in Munich on February 24, 1920: "We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. (My Note: It takes a Village, or Family Values.) Therefore, we demand an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand... the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of the national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious (citizen) the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our system of public education... We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents... The government must undertake the improvement of public health by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor - by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the... materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of "The Common Good Before the Individual Good."" I repeat: How many Americans today do not unequivocally support most, if not all, of these Nazi economic and political principles? And if there is any doubt whether the Nazi economic philosophy did, in fact, win the hearts and minds of the American people, consider the following description of the Nazi economic system by Leonard Peikoff in his book The Ominous Parallels: "Contrary to the Marxists, the Nazis did not advocate public ownership of the means of production. They did demand that the government oversee and run the nation's economy. The issue of legal ownership, they [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] [Fwd: [piml] Senator Barbara Boxer] (fwd) Date: 11 May 2000 09:20:41 PST On May 11, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Go to this address and vote in Boxer's gun survey-- Carolyn http://boxer.senate.gov/mmm/gun_survey.html http://boxer.senate.gov/mmm/gun_survey.html [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tsuma@aol.com Subject: Re: [Fratrum] [Fwd: [piml] Senator Barbara Boxer] (fwd) Date: 11 May 2000 15:45:47 EDT In a message dated 5/11/00 10:01:37 AM, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org writes: << From: cdhart@laurie.net Go to this address and vote in Boxer's gun survey-- Carolyn http://boxer.senate.gov/mmm/gun_survey.html http://boxer.senate.gov/mmm/gun_survey.html >> One of the questions is "should juveniles be allowed to buy assault weapons?" GET REAL! Since when are juveniles allowed to buy ANY kind of weapon? You gotta vote in this poll, its only about 50/50 right now, we are slightly behind. And if you feel like it, you can leave Babs a nasty note. I did;-) Vanze Lum - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Oregon March (fwd) Date: 12 May 2000 10:25:52 PST On May 12, bert.paul@pods.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Here is the current status of the Oregon anti gun show initiative and where to meet for the Portland march opposed to the Million Moron March. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 1:42 PM COMPLAINT ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oregon Gun Owners Fax/Email Alerts Volume 1 Number 5 5/11/00 $35,000 FRANCESCONI MAILING ON BEHALF OF BURDICK MEASURE IS INVALID OREGON GUN OWNERS FILES COMPLAINT THAT THROWS OUT SIGNATURE SHEETS THE MAILING DESIGN AND PAPER USED DOES NOT MEET ELECTION LAW STANDARDS Oregon Gun Owners filed a complaint on Wednesday, May 10, 2000 with the Secretary of State arguing that the Francesconi 70,000 piece mailing does not conform with election rules and was not approved prior to circulation. Today, the Secretary of State's office tells us that they have ruled in favor of the Oregon Gun Owners complaint and therefore will not count any of the signature sheets that are turned in from this mailing. DETAILS OF THE VIOLATION Oregon election law requires that "any proposed variation to approved cover or signature sheets must be resubmitted and approved in writing by the Elections Division, before circulating". Burdick had submitted a mock-up of the mailing that showed the signature and cover sheets would be in 20 # white bond paper. However, the mailing consists of "magazine slick" or glossy coated paper. Second, the Secretary of State's office tells us that they would never have approved "magazine slick" stock for two reasons: 1) the ink has a tendency to smear on this type of paper; and 2) there is a concern over the archival ability of this paper. Oregon election law requires the Secretary of State to archive the signatures sheets for 6 years for any measure that passes. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? 1) Senator Burdick and Commissioner Francesconi wasted $35,000 of liberal money. (We wonder how happy Mr. Francesconi's contributors are right about now...) 2) Senator Burdick's initiative suffers a major setback in getting on the ballot. She has 8 weeks to get 80,000 signatures (roughly). 25,000 SIGNATURES Burdick had told the Oregonian in April that she estimated the mailing would generate about 25,000 signatures. No doubt she was using this as a critical piece in her campaign strategy. We've been told that Burdick's reaction was that she would fight this ruling and would turn in the signatures. We hope she does, for it is crystal clear to us that the rules were violated! THE MILLION MOM MARCH???-if it's 250,000 we'll be surprised... The anti-rights crowd are gathering this weekend on Mother's Day to show their solidarity and support for more gun control. Senator Burdick has stated that "the momentum from this weekend is so important". She intends to use this weekend to gather thousands of signatures and build the momentum she needs to get on the ballot. YOU CAN MARCH FOR YOUR RIGHTS! You have the opportunity to march with PRO-RIGHTS people this weekend and show the anti-rights crowd that you will not stand for your rights being abridged! If you would like to march with our friends, they are gathering at 11:00 a.m. on the west side of the parking structure on 4th Street between Morrison and Alder in downtown Portland. There will be picket signs available. For more information, call David Gray, Jr. at (360) 574-9042. IF YOU PLAN ON ATTENDING, email us back to let us know so that we can let the organizers know how many signs to make! *end of alert*** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ***REMEMBER: ALL OF OUR PREVIOUS ALERTS ARE ARCHIVED ON OUR WEBSITE. CLICK ON THE ARCHIVED ALERTS LINK*** ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OREGON GUN OWNERS PO BOX 2839 SALEM, OR 97308 PHONE: 503-585-4492 AND FAX: 503-585-8065 EMAIL: alert@ogo.org WEBSITE: http://www.ogo.org Preserving our 2nd Amendment rights in Oregon is not a spectator sport. No longer can gun owners afford to ignore what is happening in this state. You must get active. You must organize with other gun owners and work to preserve our precious rights. Those who oppose gun ownership are mobilizing and they are currently winning the all important public relations battle. We MUST band together and shout in a collective voice that we will not stand for any further erosion of our rights! You can help. HOW?? You can send your contribution today. Any amount will help. At Oregon Gun Owners, your donations do not go to overhead, staff salaries, perks, etc. We are 100% fully funded for overhead. Your donations pay for our lobbying efforts, legislator contact, website, communications with you, and for various other programs designed to protect, preserve, and even enhance your rights. You can also forward this alert to other gun owners who may not be on our list. You can fax it to someone who doesn't have e-mail. COMMUNICATION AND COLLECTIVE ACTION is key. For more information, visit us on the web at: http://www.ogo.org If you'd like to unsubscribe from this alert, send a message to: alert@ogo.org [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven A. Silver" Subject: MMM Lies & the truth about guns Date: 12 May 2000 12:08:47 -0700 This Sunday's "Million Moms March" is being promoted heavily by the Clinton Administration and its P.R. cronies in the media. Of course, in all the gushing about the event, the supporters have conveniently ignored the deadly consequences their proposals will have. To lean the truth about the Million Moms' deceptions, go to http://www.guntruths.com/Silver/million_mom_deception.htm For a good source of data regarding violent crime and firearms, go to: http://www.guntruths.com/Resource/facts_you_can_use.htm Steve Silver Attorney at Law: http://www.silver-legal.com/ The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society: http://www.thelsas.org/ Citizens of America (fighting back): http://citizensofamerica.org/ Get the TRUTH About Guns: http://www.guntruths.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS MOUNT 'PROJECT KIDSAFE' THIS SATURDAY, MAY 13 (fwd) Date: 12 May 2000 12:44:25 PST On May 12, Wendell M. Joost III wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] www.projectkidsafe.org Wendell Joost > ============================================== > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > Contact: Joe Waldron (425) 454-4915 > > VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS MOUNT 'PROJECT KIDSAFE' THIS SATURDAY, MAY 13 > > BELLEVUE, WA - "Our goal is a million gun-safe kids," said Joe > Waldron, national organizer of "Project KidSafe," which will be inaugurated > at gun ranges and other facilitieis in eight states this Saturday, May 13. > > Volunteer firearms instructors are coordinating the nationwide > event, which will provide home firearm safety and child gun safety courses > to families, and single mothers and their children. > > The effort is being sponsored by WeCARE, a coalition representing > several gun safety organizations, said Waldron. Instructors certified by > the National Rifle Association will offer Home Firearms Safety programs, > and the award-winning Eddie Eagle Gun Safety programs at various locations. > > "Education and training are the solutions to gun accidents, not > more gun control laws," Waldron said. "We're mounting this effort, in the > hopes that it becomes an annual event." > > Nationally, firearms-related deaths of youngsters age 15 and under > are at an all-time low. Supports of "Project KidSafe" give much credit for > this to firearms safety courses, including hunter education, which have > provided training to millions of Americans over the past 25 years. > > An instructor involved in coordinating the multi-state event, > Wendell Joost of Kirkland, Wash., noted, "There will be a Chief Instructor > for each class conducted at each site. We will conduct the four-hour long > NRA Home Firearms Safety course, which teaches safe gun handling skills, > and how to safely handle, unload and securely store rifles, pistols and > shotguns." > > The Eddie Eagle program will be offered where possible. NRA > guidelines require that the Eddie Eagle course for children be offered only > in "neutral" environments, and not on gun ranges. > > "Project KidSafe" events are scheduled in Washington, Idaho, > Indiana, Michigan, Colorado, California, Texas and Virginia. For example: > > * In San Bernardino, Calif., a program will be hosted at the Magnum > Range, 9 - 11 a.m. and 1 - 3 p.m. > > * In Manassas, Va, a course is scheduled at Hampton Inn, Route 234 > just south of I-66, 8 a.m.- noon. > > * In Utica, Mich. the Detroit Sportsmen's Congress is hosting an > event at the DSC clubhouse, 49800 DeQuindre Road, 9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. > > * In Bothell, Wash., a Home Firearms Safety course will be offered > at the Kenmore Gun Ranges, starting at 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. > > * In Snoqualmie, Wash. an event will be held at the Snoqualmie > Valley Rifle Club, Highway 202, two miles west of Snoqualmie. > > For more information on Project KidSafe events, visit their website > at: www.projectkidsafe.org.> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slickmisc] TIMSS (fwd) Date: 12 May 2000 19:41:37 PST On May 12, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY As most readers are aware, I am a strong proponent for school vouchers, but this aside, I think it is first incumbent upon us all to realize/admit: what we are doing now is not working. Don't know about you, but I'm tired of reading articles like the one below which shows the ineffective teaching methods and belittles our students knowledge. If education is as important as we all seem to claim, isn't it time we tried something that might work, instead of pouring more money into the bottomless pit of the failing public school systems that are failing our next generation of leaders? Below is not a solution. It is an indictment of our failing system that shows the need to stop pouring money into the system that ranks US 17th out of 17 on a regular basis, unless you agree with some public school teachers who really believe their students are that dumb. Rich Martin Editor of Slick Summary of TIMSS The TIMSS (Third International Math & Science Study) provided an unprecedented opportunity for debate and analysis of the US education system. It dispelled notions of education commonly held by educators, parents, and students worldwide, and introduced new theories about how and what and why children learn. It was an objective, unassailable, scientific survey of students' skills around the world which enables international comparisons to be made free of political, partisan, and natinonalistic claims. It included both sexes and a wide array of students of all geographies, income strata, races, nationalities and religions, eliminating the usual arguments that such standardized tests are biased against a certain minority group. It proved that the US education system is, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the world's worst. WORLD'S HIGHEST EDUCATION COSTS & LOWEST SCORES As a percent of GDP, only two countries spend more for education than the US, but no country's 12th graders scored lower than everyone else in so many different subjects. Of 34 TIMSS subjects, the US was dead last in 17 of them. Japan and Korea, who spend half as much as a percent of GDP for education, educate their 8th graders well enough to score more than 100 points higher than ours, proof that spending more money isn't a prerequisite to improving education. Within the G-7 countries, a 1% increase in education spending as a percent of GDP correlates to a 40 point decrease in TIMSS scores. Where the 12th graders of most countries scored higher than their 8th graders (as much as 92 points higher), the 12th graders in the US scored 72 points lower, suggesting that American high schools may have a serious adverse effect on students. It demonstrated that the "gender gap" (the difference between boys' and girls' test scores) is constant across the world and is not the result of some systemic discrimination against girls and in favor of boys in the US, as claimed by feminists. It demonstrates that American 12th grade girls had been taught math and physics principles, but that zero percent of them were able to apply those principles to problem solving. US HAS WORLD'S LOWEST TIMSS SCORES At the 12th grade level, compared to American girls, French boys scored 130 points higher in Calculus and 147 points higher in Advanced Math, Swedish boys scored 193 points higher in Mechanics and 154 points higher in Wave Phenomena, Russian boys scored 166 points higher in Electricity & Magnetism and 91 points higher in heat, Lithuanian boys scored 121 points higher in Numbers and Equations, Swiss boys scored 161 points higher in Geometry, German boys scored 115 points higher in Modern Physics, Dutch boys scored 129 points higher in General Math and 113 points higher in General Science, Norwegian boys scored 189 points higher in Physics American boys compared to American girls scored 41 points higher in Calculus, 92 points higher in Advanced Math, 52 points higher in Mechanics, 18 points higher in Wave Phenomena, 28 points higher in Electricity & Magnetism, 26 points higher in Heat, 3 points higher in Numbers & Equations, 31 points higher in Geometry, 20 points higher in Modern Physics, 54 points higher in General Math, 61 points higher in General Science, 91 points higher in Physics, and 33 points higher in Advanced Science. AMERICAN GIRLS' LOWER THAN IF THEY JUST GUESSED There were questions which required only that a student remember a math or physics principle, and questions that required students to solve problems using those principles. Most of them were multiple choice questions with 4 or 5 choices. If students guess on a series of 4 choice questions, they will get 25% of them correct, and if they guess on a series of 5 choice questions, they will get 20% of them correct. Once adjusted for multiple choice guesses, American 12th grade girls demonstrated that they remembered an average of half of the math and physics principles on the test. But their aggregate score on both math and physics questions which required those principles to be applied to problem solving was zero percent. Of these problem solving questions, on 7 of the 20 multiple choice physics questions and on 4 of the 16 multiple choice math questions, they correctly answered fewer questions than if they had just guessed. Such consistently wrong answers cannot be explained by sheer probability theory. For example, question K10 ANGLE INSCRIBED BY FIGURES INSIDE A SEMICIRCLE had 4 possible answers, so 25% of students guessing on the question would have guessed correctly. But only 9% American girls correctly answered this question, 16% fewer than if they had just guessed. American boys didn't do well on this question either, with only 33.7% correct answers, but the 8.7% more correct answers that they got than if they had just guessed is infinitely greater than zero percent. None of the average international scores for any of the math questions for girls followed this pattern. Adjusted for guesses, the average international score for girls for all of the math problem solving questions was 14.5%, compared to 1.9% for American girls. Because the error was plus or minus 3%, a score of 1.9% is a demonstration of zero problem solving skills for American girls, compared to at least 11.5% for girls internationally. The international math scores for all boys was lower than if they had just guessed on only one question, which is the above question, on which they scored 3% lower. This can be explained entirely by the plus or minus 3% error. Their average score on these questions was 18.3%, which is 3.9% higher than the international girls' score. BOYS ANSWER 6% MORE QUESTIONS CORRECTLY THAN GIRLS, A 31 POINT DIFFERENCE The average percent correct in advanced math for American boys was 7.9%, which is 6% higher than American girls, but 6.6% lower than girls internationally and 10.4% lower than boys internationally. It was also lower than if they had just guessed on only one question, which is a different question than the one above. They scored 4% lower on a question regarding permutations, which would suggest that (had it not been for the dismal performance of girls) the American education system is not teaching this subject correctly. In other words, this would otherwise suggest that American text book and/or teachers are teaching the wrong thing about permutations. The difference between boys and girls in the final score in advanced math was 31 points (457 vs. 426), evidence that a score of 426 is the TIMSS score someone with no problem solving skills would receive. The average international scores for girls (482) was 25 points higher than for American boys, the international score for boys (519) was 62 points higher, and Swiss boys scored 102 points higher at 559. Thus the 10.4% difference between American boys and boys internationally is equivalent to a 62 point difference in TIMSS scores. The difference between 426 and 457 doesn't seem like much of a difference, until you realize that it's the difference between zero percent having problem solving skills and 6% having problem solving skills. WHY DID GIRLS SCORE LOWER THAN IF THEY HAD JUST GUESSED? Without considering any other factors, it's impossible for girls to score consistently lower on 11 of 36 math and physics questions (almost a third of them) than if they had just guessed, without knowing enough about the subject in order to answer these questions incorrectly. Analyzing this data solely by itself, it would appear that our education system is somehow encouraging American girls to intentionally answer such questions incorrectly, in a way that no other education system does. The low score of American boys relative to the average international score for girls suggests that either this also decreases boys' scores, or that a similar thing is happening to boys but they are rejecting the disinformation and relying on innate math skills more often than girls. NO RESPONSE TO SOME QUESTIONS? A possible explanation suggested by the National Center for Education Statistics is a poor test taking strategy by American girls. If a large percentage of them didn't answer these questions at all, then they would have scored lower than if they had just guessed on all the questions. The test results containing the percent of students who didn't answer each question shows that only a small percent of American girls didn't answer these questions at all, eliminating this is as a possible factor. ___________________________________________________________ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics Message from Second Amendment Sisters http://cyber77.com/sas.htm Remember four years of good friends, bad clothes, explosive chemistry experiments. http://click.egroups.com/1/4051/8/_/311094/_/958172904/ This is a closed list, however, you are encouraged to respond to this message at Slick-D@egroups.com To have your address removed, send a blank email to SlickMisc-unsubscribe@egroups.com No muss, no fuss. What could be easier? [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Millions Mom March Dangerous To Women And Kids (fwd) Date: 12 May 2000 21:27:41 PST On May 12, LizMichael.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Millions Moms March Dangerous To Women And Kids by Liz Michael, LizMichael.com, www.lizmichael.com Released May 13, 2000 for immediate release I'm going to come right out and say this. I can't mince words any = longer. The so-called "Million Moms March" represents a clear and present danger = to every woman in this nation, especially every teenage girl in this = nation. Every woman participating in this march is particpating in an = act that may very well lead to her own death, assault, or rape, as well = as the death, assault or rape of any woman or young girl in her family. = Every individual participating in this march or financing this march is = effectively sponsoring a future criminal assault on me and people I = love, and I hold them as responsible as the criminal himself. I know what you're going to say: "Liz, isn't that a bit strong? Can't = intelligent people agree to disagree?" No, not on this. I'm tired of trying to make peace with these people. = I'm tired of having to defend my right to protect myself and my family. = Tired of protecting my right not to be raped. Not to be murdered. Not to = be a victim.=20 I usually approach the subject of the Second Amendment with the approach = for which I believe it was designed: namely that the Second Amendment = was designed to keep various arms in private hands to insure against the = establishment of a tyrannical government. I'm gonna not talk about that: = for now. The Jewish Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide notwithstanding. I'm gonna frame the firearms issue strictly in terms of one factor. = Natural law. First of all, let's establish one premise. A person under attack from an = assailant has an inherent human right to defend themselves from that = attack by any means necessary. I think most of us, in our hearts, = believe that. If you do not believe that, you're already a stupid idiot. = YES! YOU! STUPID! I said it. I meant it. Deal with it. Second. That right is natural and inherent. It is a right that any = creature on this earth has by nature of their creation. Look at mammals, = birds, insects, you name it. The vast majority of them are vested by a = survival instinct to automatically repel any attempt to harm them, to = prevent it, to hide from it. They are also given, in addition to their = natural characteristics for self-defense, a brain, to devise ways of = protecting themselves from attack, sheltering themselves from attack, = and so forth. Third, this right and instinct extends to THEIR FAMILY. Look at almost = any animal species, and you will always see vigorous attempts by = mothers, and often even fathers, to protect their young. But it's not = just blood relatives. That instinct toward self-protection also extends = to the pack, the pride, the colony. Even if members of the colony really = aren't related.=20 Fourth, the right and instinct also extends TO THEIR PROPERTY. You see = this in the wild. You even see it among pets. It's why dogs make such = good guards. They instinctively protect the turf. And not just real = property, but THINGS also. I had to lay all that out. Because I think everyone who deludes = themselves into thinking they are civilized, or live in a civilized = society, ties themselves to the bizarre concept, that all society's = problems can be solved if only they can pass some STUPID LITTLE LAW. The criminal, though, like the predator in the jungle, is under no such = delusion. The criminal determines exactly what he wants, what his soul = craves, and he goes after it. Sometimes the law does dissuade him. But = the more vicious and demented he is, or the greedier he is, the less = likely any stupid little law will deter him. So into this eternal battle between criminal and citizen, come these = individuals. They say that "we all will be safer if we all submit = ourselves to restraints upon when and how we are allowed to defend = ourselves, and we must get government approval to defend ourselves, and = only defend ourselves in the way the government states we can. And we = don't want any defense methods to be transferrable from one person to = another. And kids shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves." Of course, they don't say it THAT way. They say "we want govenment = registration of handguns." "We demand trigger locks be sold with every = gun." "We want every gun owner to be licensed by the government." "We = want to compel smart guns." "We want a Juvenile Brady bill." Gun control isn't just unconstitutional. Gun control isn't just a bad = idea.=20 Gun control is unnatural. It is against nature. People don't act like = that. No creature on earth acts like that. Regardless of your religious = belief, regardless of whether you think we have a soul or spirit or not, = you must concede that however we came to be here, and whatever else we = are, we are in animal form, and we have animal instincts, and one of = those animal instincts is the instinct, the duty, to protect ourselves, = our family, our friends and neighbors, and our property from harm. And = we would not have flourished as a species without that natural instinct. Now some of these "Million Mugger-enabling Meddlers" will ask me "Liz, = do you want your six year old girl to handle firearms? Your sixteen year = old boy? Aren't you afraid of having a gun in your house because of = that?" I'll be frank with you. Given the penchant for child molestors and child = rapists, I frankly would get my kids to a shooting range at early an age = as possible so that they may familiarize themself with that means of = self-defense, as well as familiarizing them with other self-defense = methods. I frankly would rather my child have a piece concealed and know = how to use it in today's world. I would probably give him one. I = probably wouldn't let him go to a public school where he couldn't carry = it.=20 Which brings me to the point. The "Million Mugger-enabling Meddlers" = would have my full support if they were, like Mothers Against Drunk = Drivers, demanding stiffer criminal penalties for physical assaults = against children.=20 But the "Million Mom March" is doing the opposite. They aren't trying to = make it safe for my kid to walk the street. They're actually setting up = situations where my family might be rendered defenseless against these = same thugs. Howso? Everything they propose.... EVERYTHING.... is aimed against me = protecting myself and my family protecting itself, not for it. Forget = the damned Constitution for a second. Forget the damned country for a = second. A waiting period denies me for the length of the waiting period = my access to self -defense and defense of my family. Permit and = licensing requirements do the same thing: delay and prevent my natural = instinct for self-defense. Age requirements: same thing. Saying a = teenage girl is legally prohibited from carrying a firearm is like = giving a child snatcher free license at her.=20 What about trigger locks, Liz? Surely you can't be against mandating = trigger locks? But it's the same thing. A trigger lock places an = assailee at a distinct disadvantage. Crimes don't happen in days. They = happen in seconds. Suddenly. Every second is precious in a self-defense = and a trigger lock costs precious seconds and might disable the firearm = entirely. But enough of this falderal. Forget how many votes you have or think you = need. Forget your interpretation of the Constitution. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT = TO TELL ME HOW I AM TO DEFEND MYSELF OR MY FAMILY. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO = TELL MY NEIGHBORHOOD HOW IT IS TO DEFEND ITSELF. None. Notta. Zippo. = Zilch. No STUPID LITTLE LAW you pass against us will ever negate that = natural God-given right and instinct. Deal with that. The gun control people, in my opinion, have crossed a line in the sand. = This ceased to be a civilized discussion long ago. This is a matter of = self-protection. A matter of turf. If you are in favor of restricting = the citizens' right to self-defense and defense of her family, then you = are on the side of the criminals. Either you believe an individual has a = right to defend against an assailant unhampered by stupid little laws, = or you are on the side of criminals. And if you believe in using the = power of the state to come down on me for protecting myself or my = family, then both you and the state that does that are criminals. YES! = YOU! And I'm here to tell you, on behalf of many many Americans with = families, that we will have none of it any longer. Million Mom March = supporters, what you advocate, if you succeed, will be a prelude to = revolution. That is neither a threat nor a promise. That is natural law. = We will not take these stupid little laws aimed at us any longer. We = will, like a mother lioness defending her turf and her cubs, use any = means necessary. Ultimately, whether you want it or not, natural law = will assert itself. Deal with it. ------- Copyright, 2000, LizMichael.com, www.lizmichael.com Permission to reprint granted so long as the website and the copyright = remains referenced. No exclusivity may be retained by any individual or = press entity which reprints. Liz Michael=20 www.lizmichael.com - Political Activism For The Liberation Of The World LizMichael.com has a new server and a new news format - check it out = today! VP of Operations, Analon Computers - www.analon.com Founder, Bill Of Rights Political Action Committee - = www.billofrightspac.com Telephone: 213-840-6972 Fax: 818-240-9425 P.O. Box 546, Glendale CA 91209 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Judge: Gun Makers Not Responsible for Use (fwd) Date: 12 May 2000 23:38:01 PST On May 12, David Hannon wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Judge: Gun Makers Not Responsible for Use UPI Thursday, May 11, 2000 CHICAGO - A Chicago judge today dismissed part of a lawsuit, saying gun makers have "no duty to control the distribution of their products." The decision came in a suit filed on behalf of the families of a Chicago police officers and two others who were shot to death. Circuit Judge Jennifer Duncan-Brice, in an 11-page opinion, dismissed the part of the lawsuit that claimed gun makers should be held liable for what is done with their products. Duncan-Brice wrote gun maker Smith & Wesson and others "owed no duty to control the distribution of their products to the general public." The families of slain Chicago police officer Michael Ceriale, 26, who was killed during a drug surveillance, Andrew Young and Salada Smith are seeking class action status for their suit against two dozen companies involved in the gun industry. They claim the defendants should be held responsible for negligently entrusting their guns to customers and creating a public nuisance. The public nuisance part of the lawsuit will go forward. A second public nuisance lawsuit against gun makers also is pending in Chicago courts, filed by the city of Chicago. (C) 2000 UPI All Rights Reserved. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] Fw: Modified Blood Indentifed In Chemtrails (fwd) Date: 13 May 2000 12:16:39 PST On May 13, John Fisher wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Lots of secrecy here, but if it IS blood (modified?) could it also contain "modified" viruses and such? Whatever it is, if you believe in chemtrails making people sick, its working in this area anyway. John ----- Original Message -----=20 Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 7:39 PM > http://www.carnicom.com/bio1.htm > BIOLOGICAL COMPONENTS IDENTIFIED >=20 > May 11 2000 > copyright 2000 by Clifford E Carnicom >=20 >=20 > Biological components have now been identified in the two ground samples > previously analyzed on www.carnicom.com. Numerous red blood cells, white > blood cells, and unidentified cell types have been found within the > sub-micron fiber sample previously presented and submitted on Jan 20 2000= to > Carol M. Browner, Administrator of the United States Environmental > Protection Agency. To date, Ms. Browner has refused to > identify the sample delivered to her by certified mail, and to disclose > those results to the American public. >=20 > A visual analysis has now been conducted with a professional quality > microscope on May 7 2000 that reveals the important discovery above. More > information and images from this analysis will be presented in the future= . > Depicted above is one of two remarkable discoveries of clustered red bloo= d > cells which become readily visible after being subjected to immersion oil= . > The cells appear to be of a freeze-dried or dessicated nature in their > original form within the microscopic fibers. Isolated and individual bloo= d > cells are interspersed throughout both of the samples which have previous= ly > been described. The surface of the cells appear to be modified in some wa= y, > but electron microscopy will likely be required to establish further deta= il. > Professional medical analysis > of the images and chemical analysis of the fibers, and the subsequent > disclosure of those results, now exists as a fundamental need. >=20 > The individual that provided the images herein and those that will follow > shall remain anonymous. I was a witness to the events that have been > recorded. The source material for the images presented herein has been > duplicated and distributed to numerous locations across the United States= , > and it is secured by various methods. >=20 > The ramifications of this recent discovery establish sufficient cause for > widespread involvement of the American people in this issue, and for > subsequent Congressional hearings. >=20 > Clifford E Carnicom > May 11 2000 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [harpazo] City ousts congregation (fwd) Date: 14 May 2000 12:00:22 PST On May 14, FrizBMG@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] TESTING THE FAITH=20 City ousts congregation=20 Local government seizes church's=20 property through eminent domain=20 By Julie Foster =A9 2000 WorldNetDaily.com=20 Property purchased by a small congregation in the state of New York is bein= g=20 seized through eminent domain by local government, which claims the propert= y=20 is "blighted" and zoned for business.=20 St. Luke's Pentecostal Church bought the property -- including a=20 moderately-sized, run-down building -- in 1997 as a permanent home for its= =20 congregation of just over 100 members. The church has been meeting in rente= d=20 facilities for more than 20 years.=20 But the town of North Hempstead stepped-in last year to purchase the proper= ty=20 as part of its redevelopment project.=20 Many local governments across the United States set up "redevelopment=20 agencies" that seek out impoverished or unused areas, declare them=20 "blighted," acquire them through eminent domain and use federal funds to=20 improve economic development.=20 John Moss, attorney for the North Hempstead Community Development Agency,=20 said the church's property was earmarked for business in 1994. The town has= =20 been developing other properties listed on its urban development plan and h= as=20 now come to St. Luke's property on Prospect Ave., a run-down section of the= =20 town's New Cassel community.=20 North Hempstead's Community Development Agency now owns the dilapidated=20 building at 822 Prospect Ave. in New Cassel, N.Y.=20 Asked why the church was not informed of the property's "blighted" status=20 when the sale took place in 1997, Moss told WorldNetDaily, "The onus is not= =20 on the town to police [the sale of] these properties."=20 If municipalities did step-in to warn buyers, lawsuits would be filed again= st=20 the town for discouraging sales, he said.=20 "We're not big brother," Moss said. "People can do what they want with thei= r=20 property," but when it becomes a "problem," the town steps-in, he added.=20 "We are not anti-church," CDA executive director Kevin Saunders told a loca= l=20 newspaper. "By redeveloping properties, both commercially and residentially= ,=20 we are enhancing the quality of life in this neighborhood," he said.=20 The town began eminent domain proceedings in March, offering $80,000 to St.= =20 Luke's for its real estate, despite the fact the congregation paid $130,000= .=20 According to the CDA's lawyer, John Moss, the amount of money offered was=20 based on the property's appraised value. The church has until June 29 to=20 contest the figure.=20 "It was church property. It was never a church," Saunders told WorldNetDail= y.=20 The previous owner of the "blighted" property was the Jeremiah Baptist=20 Church, which had obtained permits for improvements before the sale took=20 place. St. Luke's proposed improvements are nearly identical but, rather th= an=20 granting permits, the CDA is seizing the property.=20 "The arrogance of the town officials outrages us," said Richard Cooper, cha= ir=20 of the Nassau County Libertarian Party.=20 "It made my Libertarian colleagues and me mad that the town did not have th= e=20 decency to offer at least what the Rev. Jenkins paid for it, and then=20 resorted to a squeeze-play tactic to force them to accept a low-ball offer,= "=20 Cooper said.=20 St. Luke's lost its tax exempt status after the town zoning board informed= =20 him he did not have a suitable number of parking spaces. The church now owe= s=20 more than $20,000 in property taxes that have been accruing, unbeknownst to= =20 Jenkins, since St. Luke's purchased the property.=20 Jenkins, who declined to comment while his lawyer is out of town, has seen= =20 church attendance numbers drop during the ordeal.=20 New York Libertarians call the town's actions a "scheme" to deprive a poor= =20 congregation of its property.=20 Mildred Little, a member of the North Hempstead Zoning Board, told the=20 Westbury Times, "We want improvement, first and foremost, and this property= =20 has been lying dormant for quite a while."=20 "We have enough churches here in New Cassel," she continued. "I would like = to=20 see done with the property what it was earmarked for ... business."=20 Outraged by Little's comments, Cooper said, "Instead of protecting the=20 people's right to property, the government is conducting legalized theft."= =20 In response to St. Luke's ordeal, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, introduced the=20 Church Protection Act to stop federal funds under the Community Development= =20 Block Grant program from being used in church condemnation proceedings.=20 Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, introduced legislation to prevent eminent domain fr= om=20 being used to seize church property.=20 The measure was included as an amendment to H.R. 1776, the American=20 Homeownership and Economic Opportunity Act of 2000, which was approved by t= he=20 House in April and is now awaiting a vote in the Senate.=20 "The federal government should never be in the business of funding activiti= es=20 that negatively impact the rights of individuals to worship," said Paul.=20 "This is a major step in addressing the recent imbalance in federal=20 activities tending to infringe upon constitutionally-guaranteed free exerci= se=20 rights."=20 "The legislation I crafted was not just designed to address one certain=20 instance," he continued. "If any church can be destroyed or displaced with= =20 federal funds, then all churches are subject to such difficulties. Our=20 Founding Fathers well recognized that this sort of thing should not go on a= nd=20 that is why they gave us the First and Fifth Amendments," concluded Paul.=20 Even with the legislation, St. Luke's fight continues. The property now=20 belongs to the CDA, but the church has seven weeks to contest its assessed= =20 value.=20 "Even if the court finds for the town, the battle is not over for the right= s=20 of St. Luke's and all Americans," said Cooper.=20 "Moses said to Pharaoh, let my people go. The Libertarian Party says to the= =20 politicians, let these people stay," he concluded.=20 Julie Foster is a staff reporter for WorldNetDaily.=20 =A0=A0 E-mail to a friend=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 Printer-friendly version =A0 =A0=20 We have enough churches here in New Cassel. I would like to see done with t= he=20 property what it was earmarked for ... business. =A0=20 -- Mildred Little, member of the North Hempstead Zoning Board=20=20 =A0=20 Instead of protecting the people's right to property, the government is=20 conducting legalized theft. =A0=20 -- Richard Cooper, chair of the Nassau County Libertarian Party=20=20 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] FFL (fwd) Date: 14 May 2000 13:13:17 PST On May 14, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] To: Subject: The Gunstock FFL Rebellion begins! Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:00:40 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 On May 15, 2000 the Gunstock Rebellion began in Tecumseh, Michigan. Johnson's sporting goods owner Dave Calibre looked over his lost sales for the weekend which amounted to over 6,000 dollars in gross sales. "Helen, if they pull this crap again we're goint to lose the business"; Dave had no intentions of giving up his long-running business. "Why don't you just tell the FBI and ATF that we really don't need their help anymore?" Dave walked behind the counter, angrier than Helen had seen him since Waco transpired. Dave starting ripping the wire out of his FBI background check computer. "Helen-make a sign for the front window-No background check necessary." Helen being one step ahead of her hubby pulled the pre-made sign from the back stockroom. "This is the last time thes bastards are sticking it to us Dave", Helen commented as she taped up the sign. Tuesday May 16 was the busiest day Dave and Helen could ever remember. Word had spread fast especially in the Patriot community that Dave and Helen had drawn the line. Militia leaders mailed their letters of support and wrote editorials to the local papers in full support of Johnson's sporting goods and the second amendment. The consensus was that the Klintonistas and BATFaggots had finally pushed the American people too far. If it's a war they want let it start here was the comment from the Lenawee county militia commander. Within the week the Gunstock rebellion had spread to thirty other gunshops in Michigan as word spread that the FFL-holders were trashing their background check computers and mailing letters of intent to the BATFaggots. The gunshops became a rallying point for the patriots and anti-Klintonista forces in Militiagan much as the Liberty trees of old. News and views were taped in the front windows for all to view notifying them that the revolution had begun. Several senators such as Jesse Helms called in their support from the beltway. Michigan milita leaders swore to protect the Gunstock rebellion stores with the full might of the second amendment and put a 24hr. armed guard on Johnson's sporting goods which had received threats from the BATFaggots that they had better take out some fire insurance. Wayne La Pierre of the NRA finally was pushed into a corner and called in the full support of the NRA. George Bush Jr. claimed if elected he would repeal all gun control laws passed since 1968. Militia leaders stated they would settle for nothing less than full repeal of all gun-laws. Klinton threatened to have the National Guard called in to enforce the Federal edicts of the imperium. As of tonight the stand-off ensues as more citizens rally into the warring camps of gun views. Klinton acknowledges that his computer failure over the weekend had backfired and had the opposite effect of making handguns and rifles available in Michigan without a background check Stay tuned for the latest developments! [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS MOUNT 'PROJECT KIDSAFE' THIS SATURDAY, MAY 13 Date: 15 May 2000 09:44:11 -0700 Snoqualmie Valley Rifle Club, near Snoqualmie falls in Western Washington had a good turnout out our event. Despite a last minute promotion campaign we had several Mom or Dad/Son teams turnout to get a basic introducton to firearms safety (extracted from the NRA Home Firearms Safety curriculum) and an opportunity to learn about the Eddie the Eagle program. Everyone made great contacts, some of the kids plan to check out the juniors program and -everyone- can recite the three rules of gun safety without a moments hesitation. All participants; instructors and students alike had a great time and the instructors are already planning a bigger better program for next year. NRA makes safety happen. Boyd Kneeland Bill Vance wrote: > > On May 12, Wendell M. Joost III wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > www.projectkidsafe.org > > Wendell Joost > > > ============================================== > > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > Contact: Joe Waldron (425) > 454-4915 > > > > VOLUNTEER INSTRUCTORS MOUNT 'PROJECT KIDSAFE' THIS SATURDAY, MAY 13 > > > > BELLEVUE, WA - "Our goal is a million gun-safe kids," said Joe > > Waldron, national organizer of "Project KidSafe," which will be > inaugurated > > at gun ranges and other facilitieis in eight states this Saturday, May 13. > > > > Volunteer firearms instructors are coordinating the nationwide > > event, which will provide home firearm safety and child gun safety courses > > to families, and single mothers and their children. > > > > The effort is being sponsored by WeCARE, a coalition representing > > several gun safety organizations, said Waldron. Instructors certified by > > the National Rifle Association will offer Home Firearms Safety programs, > > and the award-winning Eddie Eagle Gun Safety programs at various > locations. > > > > "Education and training are the solutions to gun accidents, not > > more gun control laws," Waldron said. "We're mounting this effort, in the > > hopes that it becomes an annual event." > > > > Nationally, firearms-related deaths of youngsters age 15 and under > > are at an all-time low. Supports of "Project KidSafe" give much credit > for > > this to firearms safety courses, including hunter education, which have > > provided training to millions of Americans over the past 25 years. > > > > An instructor involved in coordinating the multi-state event, > > Wendell Joost of Kirkland, Wash., noted, "There will be a Chief Instructor > > for each class conducted at each site. We will conduct the four-hour long > > NRA Home Firearms Safety course, which teaches safe gun handling skills, > > and how to safely handle, unload and securely store rifles, pistols and > > shotguns." > > > > The Eddie Eagle program will be offered where possible. NRA > > guidelines require that the Eddie Eagle course for children be offered > only > > in "neutral" environments, and not on gun ranges. > > > > "Project KidSafe" events are scheduled in Washington, Idaho, > > Indiana, Michigan, Colorado, California, Texas and Virginia. For example: > > > > * In San Bernardino, Calif., a program will be hosted at the > Magnum > > Range, 9 - 11 a.m. and 1 - 3 p.m. > > > > * In Manassas, Va, a course is scheduled at Hampton Inn, Route 234 > > just south of I-66, 8 a.m.- noon. > > > > * In Utica, Mich. the Detroit Sportsmen's Congress is hosting an > > event at the DSC clubhouse, 49800 DeQuindre Road, 9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. > > > > * In Bothell, Wash., a Home Firearms Safety course will be offered > > at the Kenmore Gun Ranges, starting at 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. > > > > * In Snoqualmie, Wash. an event will be held at the Snoqualmie > > Valley Rifle Club, Highway 202, two miles west of Snoqualmie. > > > > For more information on Project KidSafe events, visit their > website > > at: www.projectkidsafe.org.> > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Online Poll / Please Vote (fwd) Date: 15 May 2000 11:31:23 PST On May 15, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] // SENT FYI //// If you love your freedom, vote no//// We are suppose to be accountable for our actions.// >X-Sender: spiker@169.132.8.9 >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.1 >Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:35:13 -0600 >To: (Recipient list suppressed) >From: spiker >Subject: Online Poll / Please Vote > >Do you support the gun control message of the "Million Moronic Mom March"? >http://news.excite.com/news/poll/ > >Recent results > > >Yes 41% => 7848 votes > >No 55% => 10544 votes > >Don't know 3% => 703 votes [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: ACT NOW!! (fwd) Date: 16 May 2000 07:28:18 PST On May 15, Neal Atkins wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Saw an AP report where Hyde (R-IL) was ready to cave on the House "compromise" on the Juvenille bill and include a 3 day wait, no hi-cap mag import and EVERYTHING ELSE the Pres. wants. Some "compromise". We need to CALL Delay, Armey, J.C.Watt and George W. Bush and tell them NOT TO CAVE! The marching moron momsmay have given them a day's worth of publicity, but we have to respond or we'll get the next level of "gun safety" and after that, they'll be talking registration and licensing. BTW, Hyde is anti-gun, don't waste your time calling him. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Still Turnin' Up the Heat on EOs (fwd) Date: 16 May 2000 20:01:17 PST On May 16, CJE wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >From the Liberty Study folks, this info. regarding the continued fight against the Imperial Presidency. If you can't get up the interest to write your congressman, please consider this: A revocation of EOs will enable me to get spare parts for my Daewoo K2s. Don't make me hire Sally Struthers to do a teary-eyed commercial for my plight, ok? Cliff May 16, 2000 Dear friend of liberty, Your efforts are making a difference! H.R. 2655 - The Separation of Powers Restoration Act now has 40 co-sponsors. Rush Limbaugh has been discussing executive orders on his national program, urging Governor Bush to make them a campaign issue, and asking that the subject be a part of the presidential debates. Roger Fredinburgh talked about executive orders during his national program in March. Several regional radio talk show hosts in different parts of the country have talked about executive orders during the last several months. Articles, editorials and letters to the editors have been published in numerous newspapers from coast to coast. The issue is moving in our direction. We must continue to push the issue in the U.S. House of Representatives. In addition to continuing our work in the U.S. House, we can now start moving the issue in the U.S. Senate - thanks to Senator Mike Crapo of Idaho! Action by the U.S. Senate is an equal part of our legislative process. Senator Crapo introduced S. 1795 - The Executive Orders Limitation Act which is very similar to H.R. 2655 - The Separation of Powers Restoration Act. There are people, organizations and institutions that want the problem and, more specifically, the legislative solution to presidential executive order abuse to simply go away; to become nothing more than an item for academic squabble. The issue, however, won't go away - because we're not going to let it. Please urge your two U.S. senators to co-sponsor S. 1795 - The Executive Orders Limitation Act. Go to http://www.executiveorders.org to write to your U.S. senators. Senator Crapo's press release and floor statement about S. 1795 are posted at http://www.executiveorders.org as well as the bill itself. Thank you for your help! Please pass this information on to others. Kent Snyder Liberty Study Committee http://www.libertystudy.org [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: PLEASE VOTE IN ONLINE POLL ON GUN ISSUE (fwd) Date: 17 May 2000 10:08:32 PST It was pulled when the Statist Centerpiece, the Million Maroons, started loosing big time. They've simply got too much invested in this tactic to allow it to be perceived as a loser. One of the better methods of dealling with them might be humor: How many MMMers does it take to change a light bulb? 50,000. Any fewer, and there wouldn't be anyone there at all. or Did you hear the one about the MMMer who..... You get the picture. Might take a little heat off of Blondes, too. :-) On May 17, NFLEEK@aol.com wrote: >To pro-gun activists: > >I did not see a poll about the "Moms for Murder and Mayhem" at this website, >but there are several polls which may be of interest to gun owners. > >The web site is at: http://www.time.com > >After you arrive at this web site, there is a list on the left side of the >screen which has this hyperlink: Online Polls. After you click on this, at >the top, on the right, is this poll: > > "Gun Control > Should the > U.S. have > stricter gun > control laws?" > >After you vote, you might want to check out the other polls, which include >the Littleton, Colorado, incident. > >Thank you, >Nancy -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: VIN -- mostly rocks and gravel (fwd) Date: 17 May 2000 10:10:03 PST On May 17, SlickEditor@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Mostly rocks and gravel And so little Nevada has become the nation's largest polluter, this week's headlines inform us. After all, our state's mines released 1.3 billion pounds of toxic pollutants in 1998 -- more than the entire U.S. chemical manufacturing industry combined. Heavens. The uninitiated might assume residents of the Silver State now pull on face masks and full oxygen gear whenever they dare dash out amongst the roiling clouds of sulfur fumes which darken our skies -- that Nevada housewives routinely boil their drinking water after passing it through a succession of ever-finer screens to eliminate the grossest of the animal carcasses, human waste, and other pollutants found floating in that soup of toxic industrial waste that pours from our taps. In fact, of course, such images have little to do with reality. The real reason Nevada has just jumped to the lead of the EPA's "polluters" list is not a new level of irresponsibility on the part of western mine owners, but the fact that this is the first year the federal government has consented to count mine wastes as "toxic discharges." Not only that, the wastes are measured by their raw weight. If tons of otherwise inert rock and gravel contain even trace elements of a potentially toxic metal, and if they're shifted from one location to another -- which is precisely what miners do -- then the new federal regulations require every pound of the rock to be counted as "released pollutants." Thus, a thousand pounds of ore dumped near a mineshaft are considered to be "twice as much pollutant" as 500 pounds of pure mercury poured by a chemical plant into a river in Ohio -- even though the amount of toxic mercury locked in that half-ton of ore may amount to only a fraction of an ounce. In fact, most of the new "pollutants" being reported are nothing more than the routine mine ores and tailings which the federal government has long permitted -- products of operations over which the state of Nevada has little say, in the first place, since they're almost entirely on federal lands and under federal regulation. "Now we know what we've long suspected -- the mining industry is the nation's biggest toxic polluter," stormed Stephen D'Esposito, president of the anti-mining Mineral Policy Center in Washington, D.C. Sure it is -- once you talk the EPA into redefining "toxic waste" to describe tons of mostly harmless rock and gravel that aren't going anywhere. The oceans and the Great Lakes surely contain mercury, arsenic, and every other type of known poison. Shall we thus identify Florida and Michigan as our most endangered states, since they're "nearly surrounded by surging seas of toxic poison?" Or shall we just relax and go swimming? It all depends on your definition. "It's unfortunate that it puts Nevada and the mining industry at the top, but in reality these are naturally occurring compounds that exist in low concentrations," explains Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev. Yes, mercury is released into the atmosphere during the smelting of gold ore. This shouldn't be a secret -- the new "toxic release inventory" law can provide valuable information to regulators and residents alike. But there's no indication the release of such substances over time, releases which would occur at lower rates through natural erosion -- and at far higher rates during volcanic eruptions -- exceeds either federal or state standards, or has reached either water supplies or the food chain at high enough levels to merit concern. (There's no evidence fish caught in Northern Nevada's Humboldt River, for instance, exhibit elevated mercury levels, despite the proximity of that river to many of the mines in question.) Thanks to this new "right to know" law, Nevadans now have more information available about the pollutants released by industrial activity. Good. The challenge now is to put these figures into a proper context, measuring the benefits of mineral production against the risks of pollution, and assessing what progress the industry has made in reducing these risks. That makes a lot more sense than reflexively deciding that "Mining has got to go," based on the transparent agenda of those who would suddenly start labeling gravel piles as "dangerous pollutants." Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at $24.95 postpaid by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fun with MMM Sponsors (fwd) Date: 17 May 2000 13:17:15 PST On May 17, Ry Jones wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Please forward to anyone with a little free time and access to a phone. Ry -- I noticed a lot of companies jumped in on the MM March, and a lot of them have 800 numbers. Perhaps you could call and let them know how you feel? I also noticed that a lot of them will send you nice glossy marketing materials. Be sure to call all toll-free numbers from a payphone. Remember: be polite, firm, respectful. Threats and cursing and hollering don't get you anywhere. Numbers marked (whois) are from the "whois" service of internic.net. Numbers marked (toll) are likely to be toll calls, unless you live in the area. MMM: 888.989.MOMS http://www.wdcahotels.com/ : 800.553.2200 Mom.Com: 888.8.momcom Chezzam: http://www.chezzam.com/chezzam_material_request.htm Also, 800.541.HART. Also, http://www.zenithpyro.com/zenith_profile.htm CIBC: Locations near you, worldwide. http://www.cibcwm.com/About/worldwide_locations.html Oxygen.com: run by Oprah.com. Not toll free. 212.833.4400 (whois) (toll) IVillage.Com: No 800 number. However, investor relations will let you in on the skinny: http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=IVIL&script=2300&layout=7 212.604.0963 (whois) (toll) Superior Graphics: 973.279.0066 (toll) WhiteHouseProtests.Com: 301.963.2595 (whois) (toll) blbglaw.com: 212.554.1400, 201.487.9700, 858.793.0070 (toll) sheerrcomm.com: 610.525.4084 (toll) SaraHickman.com: 1.888.606.6874 for orders, 512.444.8750 for booking (toll) Applegatefarms.com: 800.587.5858 http://www.calyxandcorolla.com/: order 1.888.88.CALYX customer service 1.800.877.0998. To request a catalog, http://www.calyxandcorolla.com/about/requestcatalog.html Jon Corzine for Senate: 973.643.0500 (toll) Workingmommall.com: 410.465.4758 (whois) (toll) Localmom.com: 617.522.1515 (whois) (toll) Guess: 1.877.444.8377 Stride Rite: 617.824.6000 (toll) RiverFront Assoc: 609.392.7900 (whois) McClelland Press: 413.458.4248 (toll) Progressive Promotions: 707.822.7472 (toll) Little Eric's Shoe Store: 973.379.6998 (toll) Temple Ahavat Shalom: 818.360.2258 (toll) Over The Moon: 973.746.1728 (toll) Val's Art: 973.275.1966 (toll) Dem Two Hands: 973.783.8344 (toll) Cambridge Toy Box: 617.354.8796 (toll) Doitforthekids.org: 303.758.0000 (toll) (whois) Voter.com: 617.742.0888 (toll) WASH-FM: 301.984.9710 (toll) PAX TV: http://www.paxtv.com/feedback.cfm , 407.659.4122 (toll) (whois) MCI Center: 972.633.0481 (toll) (whois) Lifetime TV: http://www.lifetimetv.com/help/feedback.html , 212.424.7230 (toll) (whois) Planet Hollywood: 407.363.7827 (toll) 407.903.5653 (toll) (whois) Viacom, Inc.: 1.800.516.4399, 212.258.6000 (toll) Dannon: 1.800.321.2174 Ben & Jerry's: 1.800.53.SUGAR or 802.846.1500 (toll) FileMaker: 800.325.2747 Buildabear.com: 1.888.560.BEAR or 1.877.PTY.BEAR You can check out the updated lists at: http://www.millionmommarch.com/html/endorsers.html and http://www.millionmommarch.com/html/sponsors.html Here are more sponsors to look up: if you find the info on these guys, edit the list and forward it back to me. I just ran out of time and I think I got the juicy targets all taken care of. I deleted anything from the list that was clearly a person. Fontana di Trevi Restaurant, NYC Anthem Lady (Apple) Pies, Maryland Fabricut, Inc., Tulsa, OK Park Slope Copy Center Budget Print Center, Montclair, NJ It's A Wrap, NYC Maryland Copier Corp. CMS Companies UTZ Plumbing, Md Gepettos Toy Box First Run Features Ding-A-Ling Communications Washington's Green Grocers, D.C. Pennsylvania State Representative Connie Williams Parents Magazine & Child Magazine Nick Lewis Graphic Design, Montclair, NJ Flying Colors, Berkeley ,CA Nita Ideas, Short Hills, NJ Kwik Kopy, #138 Euless, TX Mail Boxes Etc., Colleyville, TX Debbie's Copies, Euless, TX Digi Press, Irving, TX Grapevine Sun, Grapevine, TX Shirlington Storage, Arlington, VA NVJCC/San Fernando Valley Moms Kaiser Permanente Foundation - Colorado Abstract Edge Bellingham Unitarian Fellowship Beth Emet Synagogue Community Foundation of NJ Entrust Capital Inc Beverly Forsyth Funders Collaborative for the Prevention of Gun Violence General Atlantic Services Corp GS Management Services, LLC Hadassah - Women's Zionist Org of America KEF Media Kathleen Koljack Marylanders Against Hand Gun Abuse Mechthild Schmidt, House Works Digital Media Inc National Capital of Prebytery Orange Cty - Citizens for the Prev of GV Policy Management Systems Corporation Rose Foundation Saf T Lok Inc Southern CA Gas Company Trinity Presbyterian Church Union of American Hebrew Congr United Methodist Church Board Virgin Atlantic Airways Washington Parent Magazine Washington Woman Magazine Turkel Family Charitable Foundation Stop Handgun Violence The David Bohnett Foundation St. Matthew's Episcopal Church of Evanston The Safer Communities Foundation of Winston-Salem [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: "Come Kill Us" TOM ADKINS (fwd) Date: 18 May 2000 12:36:16 PST On May 18, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] the Common Conservative 5/16/00 Tom Adkins Link---> commonconservative.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Come Kill Us Million Moms March to Victimhood by Tom Adkins Here we go again. Another fake march by a fake "nonpartisan" group trying to fake-out America. Led by Donna Dees-Thomases, the latest pied-piper of constitutional reengineering, a million "moms" (give or take 900,000, depending on who's counting) marched on DC to persuade American women to revoke the second amendment. In their twisted logic, these women believe if we all toss our guns in a river, crime will disappear. Let's quote directly from the Million Moms website: "While we acknowledge that guns may be necessary for hunting, law enforcement, and national security, the proliferation of firearms intended for one purpose only - killing another human being - has become untenable." Untenable? Let me offer personal assurance that when the next rapist drags one of these disarmed ditzes off the street, she will beg for the touch of a cold and cocked Glock 45. Without a trigger lock. Because Chuck Schumer won't come rescue her. Rosie O'Donnell won't drop by to harangue the guy to death. Donna Dees-Thomases won't march a million women into the bushes and drag the guy out. These hypocrites who enjoy armed protection 24/7 will never be there to help. Without a gun to defend herself, the next rape victim will meekly submit to violation and humiliation at the least, violent and bloody murder at the worst. In that instant before she dies, the rapist will have converted his victim into a staunch defender of the second amendment. Salesmen call this "the hard sell ..." Who is Donna Dees-Thomases, anyway? And why is she demanding a million mothers surrender the best safety and defense for their families? Dees-Thomases is the sister-in-law of Susan Thomases, Hillary's best friend and staunch defender of the First Family's right to break any law they please. Her resume includes a stint as publicist for Clinton jock-sniffer Dan Rather. Dees-Thomases is no "average housewife" newly awakened to the world's problems. She is a committed liberal Democrat, disguised as a "concerned mother" to hide her leftist intentions. Like all liberal hacks, Dees-Thomases must lie about who she is, what she is and her agenda. This crusade is actually full of lies. Twelve kids a day do not die from gun violence. Except for late-teen gang-bangers, about 100 children a year die from accidental gun deaths. Tragic, but less than the 200 who accidentally suffocate, the 950 who drown, and the 1,000 who are burned. Shall we put locks on Saran wrap? Outlaw bathtubs and stoves? 2,900 kids die every year in car accidents. Al Gore and Ted Kennedy jokes aside ... shall we outlaw the automobile? You could write a book of irrefutable stats proving these fools are wrong. Actually, it's been written. Liberal professor John Lott clearly proved lax gun control actually leads to less crime and strict gun control leads to more gun crime. The marching mommies may not be aware of this relationship, but criminals certainly are. In every nation that has tried gun control, violent crime has risen markedly. So ladies ... why go half way? Save the suspense! Simply find the nearest rapist, drive over to his house and rip your clothes off for him. All sorts of fools are climbing aboard this DNC-sponsored bandwagon. Career gun-hater and congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy, the irony flying over her head at warp speed, is making appearances on every talking head show as cheerleader for these Million Future Victims. Her husband and son didn't have the foresight to defend themselves against the sick man who mowed them down in a New York subway. Now, she wants the rest of America to join them. The ultimate question is: Should we surrender the best defense against criminal violence in order to prevent 100 accidental gun deaths a year? I didn't see Dees-Thomases discuss the 2.5 million crimes stopped every year by firearms. She didn't mention the gun violence liberal Hollywood shoves down the throat of America's children, either. And she curiously avoids questioning the Clinton administration phobia of enforcing current gun laws. Please spare us the charade. Dees-Thomases doesn't give a damn about families or children. If she did, she would demand that all mothers who really care about their children arm themselves and teach the kids how and when to use guns. If some 14-year-old daughter is baby-sitting and some crack-head kicks the door down, she should know where the gun is, how to use it, and who to call to pick up the well-ventilated body. It boils down to this: Before guns, there were knives. Before knives there were clubs. Before clubs there were rocks. There have never been shortages of ways to kill each other. But the handgun became the great equalizer. In the old American West, the saying went, "God created man. Sam Colt made them equal." Equal power is the antithesis of liberalism. That is why liberals want guns eliminated. What die-hard liberals like Dees-Thomases want is victims. Many more. Why? Because Wayne LaPierre was right. If you recall, LaPierre accused Bill Clinton of accepting tragedy to further his political agenda. In fact, every liberal idea is specifically designed to create failure. If welfare was eliminated and we privatized Medicare and social security, unemployment would disappear, medical costs would drop like a stone, and we'd all retire millionaires. And if every woman were armed, 4,100 rapes would have not taken place last year. Without victims, liberals would have to get real jobs as convenience store clerks and such. The very existence of liberalism depends upon misery, mayhem and violence. And that is why they want to disarm the entire nation. Therefore, the problem isn't simply that these naive ladies are willing to martyr themselves and sacrifice their children to pacify the gods of liberalism. That is their choice. The real problem is they want the rest of America to sacrifice our families as well. They are not caring, thinking mothers. They are a dizzy bunch of helpless dopes marching to their demise, following partisan liberal political hacks like Donna Dees-Thomases. In the end, I suppose we shouldn't worry about these ladies. After all, Democrats such as Thomases, James Carville, and the entire CNN staff spent the last four years proclaiming women who are assaulted are just a bunch of silly sluts who are asking for it. Maybe they have a point. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ * * * NOTICE * * * LAST CHANCE to pay 1999 rates. Technical Surveillance Countermeasures [some people call it debugging] The first hands-on TSCM training class in our new location will be the LAST class at the old tuition. The first week will be offered June 12 - 16. There are a few slots still open. For full information please call Scott Parker or Jim Ross on 800-US-DEBUG or 703-365-2200. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] Secret searches (fwd) Date: 18 May 2000 12:35:18 PST On May 18, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Fourth Amendment Sneak Attack Reno's outrageous Secret Searches measure. By Dave Kopel, of the Independence Institute The Reno Department of Justice is very good at being sneaky. The DOJ's lobbyists are on the verge of successfully sneaking into law a provision which will authorize federal agents to stealthily enter people's homes, search the homes, and not tell anyone. The Secret Searches measure is so outrageous that it would have no chance of being enacted as a bill on its own, when subjected to public scrutiny and debate. So instead, the DOJ has nestled the Secret Search item deep inside a long bill dealing with methamphetimines. The measure is further disguised with the innocuous title of "Notice Clarification." Subject to virtually no public discussion, the Secret Searches item has already passed the Senate, hidden inside the methamphetimine giant S. 486. Next week, the House Judiciary Committee will take up H.R. 2987, the House version of the Senate bill, which also contains the buried clause on Secret Searches (section 301). The federal bankruptcy reform bill (which has passed both houses, and is currently in a conference committee) likewise has the hidden Secret Searches language. If the Secret Searches provision became law, it would apply to all searches conducted by the federal government, not just searches involving methamphetimines or bankruptcy. When conducting searches, federal agents are currently required to announce their presence before entering, and to provide an inventory of any items they take. Because the person whose home or business is being searched knows about the search, he can exercise his Fourth Amendment rights, and make sure that the police have a properly-issued search warrant. He can also see if the search is being conducted according to the warrant's terms i.e., the police are searching only for items authorized by the warrant, they are searching the right address, etc. But under a Secret Searches law, federal police could enter a person's home surreptitiously, conduct a search, and not tell the homeowner until months later. Even months later, the police would not have to provide an inventory of "intangible" items which were taken in a search. So if the police entered your home secretly, and photocopied your diary or made a copy of your computer hard disk, they would never have to inform you of their actions. Should the Secret Searches item be deleted from the methamphetimine and bankruptcy bills, it is likely that Clinton will try to sneak the item into a gigantic budget bill, during the Congressional Republicans' annual fall appropriations surrender. Take note: In a previous Congress, Clinton was able to obtain authority for warrantless wiretaps which had been defeated after public debate earlier in the year by hiding the authority in the year's omnibus budget bill. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] Christian brief (fwd) Date: 19 May 2000 07:27:54 PST On May 19, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >From South Africa Freedom News, this morning. J. CHRISTIAN BRIEF Abortions in Poland have declined to such an extent that this past year there were only 250 killings of fetuses. "The abortion rate went from 160,000 to 250," said Dr. Jack Willke, of the Life Issues Institute, who has spent time in Poland. For 44 years, Poland was dominated by a communist Regime, like the New SA, and abortion was not only legal, it was paid for by the government. When the Iron Curtain fell, the Polish parliament severely restricted abortion, and today according to Willke there are now fewer women dying of gynecologic problems, effectively proving 'pro-choice' lobbyists wrong. Lek Koleski, a Polish member of the board of directors of the International Right to Life Committee, said abortion restrictions have helped educate women. His conclusion after studying the Polish experience was that the law tends to influence opinions, and that the demand for abortion declines as soon as Soviet-style anti-life legislation is abolished. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: [slickmisc] TIMSS (fwd) Date: 19 May 2000 07:29:11 PST On May 19, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From: manifesto@netzero.net (Fathers Manifesto) Dear Rich, There are few parents in this country who would disagree with your observation that spending more of their tax dollars for education just isn't going to solve our education crisis. For those who are interested, the entire solution to this crisis was provided to us by foreign, not American, educators, through TIMSS. This study contains far more important information than just our low test scores, which by themselves are prerequisites to quantifying the damage done to our nation's boys and girls through feminism. The mindset created by feminism created a lockstep between denial and ignorance which we simply must break out of. It starts with feminism's Holy Grail that boys and girls are "equal" (ignorance) and ends with their insulting any challenge to this Holy Grail as misogeny (denial). It's difficult for those of us who have both boys and girls to understand how feminists or teachers or bureaucrats or courts could even start their day with such an outlandish assumption, until you realize how many of them have neither and couldn't care less about both. Rush Limbaugh's recent diatribe about how easily he would remove Elian Gonzalez from his father proved that only parents understand children, or care enough about them to ensure that their parents are their primary decision makers, rather than the childless bureaucrats of whom there are far too many involved in American "education". But this is only a partial explanation for why so many Americans accept this basic feminist premise. By denying these differences they are propagating a social pathology of immense proportions. American girls are clearly the biggest losers of this denial, so it's the exact opposite of "misogeny" to make the following observation: pretending that our girls aren't being adversely impacted by feminism ensures that they will forever rank last in the world in academic skills, which adversely impacts boys, which further undermines girls' future family income and stability. We cannot deny that there is a huge difference in public attitudes about education between the US and many other countries. One example is the low proportion of American teachers who are men, compared to more than three quarters of the teachers in Japan and Korea and Switzerland, the highest scoring countries in TIMSS. Only a quarter of the teachers in the US, and other low scoring countries like Austria, Greece, and the Czech Republic, are men. You can deny that this is a factor in our poor international standing, as many American educators and students and even parents commonly do, but you cannot deny that this is clear evidence of an important and significant difference in attitudes about education. This is the classic case of how quality is less expensive than going third class. Not only does Japan spend less than half as much as a percentage of GDP for education than us, not only did their 8th graders score more than 100 points higher than ours, but their predominately men teachers receive salaries which are two to three times higher than our predominately women teachers. In an obtuse sense our teachers are correct--American teachers should be paid more. But the money must be spent to attract more competent American men to teaching rather than to continue to prop up the deadwood educators who dishonored our youth. How can American girls who scored a statistical zero percent on TIMSS math and physics at the 12th grade level gain the knowledge or skills within the next 4 or 8 or 10 years necessary to teach American boys, many of whom understand math and physics better than most [if not all] of their own teachers? The reality is that they can't, they don't, and they never will. Furthermore, those who major in education, who are most of those who become teachers, score 55 SAT math points lower than the average college student and 161 SAT math points lower than the average math major. Thus most of our teachers are already coming from the left side of a very flat bell curve which is to the left of the male bell curve which is one of the lowest in the world. Does a college education or teachers' training or an advanced degree improve these critical skills? Not by much, and certainly not by enough to make any significant difference. The gap between these bell curves is even bigger after graduation than before--88 GRE (Graduate Record Exam) points. Conversely, Japan's teachers come from a labor pool whose 8th grade TIMSS scores were 105 points higher than ours and whose 12th grade scores would have been between 180 and 250 points higher had they participated in 12th grade TIMSS. They hire mostly men who, if the difference between Japanese men and women is equivalent to the difference between Swiss, Czech, Austrian, or Slovenian men and women, have academic skills which are the equivalent of more than 80 TIMSS points higher in both math and physics than their women. And they pay enough to attract teachers from the right side of the men's bell curve, which adds another 30-50 points to their teachers' average academic skills. Ignoring any overlap between these three factors, the majority of Japan's teachers have math and physics skills which are the equivalent of 290 to 380 TIMSS points higher than the majority of our teachers. We need no further studies or tests to grasp the significance of such a wide gap between Japanese and American teachers. We don't even need to test our teachers or Japanese teachers to get a ballpark estimate of their relative academic performance--we have it. John Knight John, FYI, I am the father of 6, 5 girls and a boy who graduated with NHS awards. Today a granddaughter recd the Presidential award and my daughter will graduate with a straight A's from a Dir college. When it comes to parenthood, I am no novice. The TIMSS article makes many points, most of the germane, IMHO, however, my focus is: the fall of the US educational system to last place in the industrialized world spells our doom. As I learned in ToughLove, if you continue doing what you're doing, you will keep getting what you're getting---in this case, last place. Rich Martin Editor of Slick [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Clinton cancels Army Reserve Marksmanship Program... (fwd) Date: 19 May 2000 13:41:10 PST On May 19, bg wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Please post this far and wide. The army and marines, especially, have = been proud winners of many shooting medals and awarda at Camp Perry, in = the Olympics and across America. Now, the Clinton Administration has = canceled the Army Reserve marksmanship program. > Break out another set of black armbands. > > AA/labgrade > Tyranny Response Team > Subject: [besc] FW: The Latest Clinton Outrage: Army Marksmanship = Programs > Cancelled! > > > |> | Subject: All-USAR Shooting Team > | > | > | To one and all: > | > | This is the latest move in the destruction of the 2nd Amendment by = the > | Clinton Commu-Nazis. > | Some of the names you will see below are real "heavy hitters" in = the > | shooting world. Note: MSG Steve Reiter is the current and past = National > | Pistol champion. MSG Fox is Ruby Fox, womens' National Pistol = champion > | for about a dozen or more years running, and one of the few 2600+ = womman > | shooters in the world. > | Despite the fact that there are more Olympic medals awarded for > | shooting than any other discipline - 13 in total - it looks like the = USA > | will loose by default this year. > | It should be further noted that these were the same people who = saved > | the US Army's bacon when the Infantry school fell on it's face for = lack > | of marksmanship training in Desert Storm! > | Some people never learn. > | > | Respectfully, > | > | MSG David J. Lindstedt, Sr. > | US ARMY (retired) > | former team captain & coach 79th ARCOM Pistol team > | > | PS: Please forward this to any and all interested parties. > | > | > | > | --------- Forwarded Message --------- > | > | From: "MCILHANEY,ROBERT L.", INTERNET:MCILHARL@apci.com > | To: "Dave Lindstedt (E-mail)", 73422,1726 > | Date: 5/16/00 5:21 AM > | RE: FW: All-USAR Shooting Team > | > | > | Dave, > | > | Well they have done it to us. It is official now. All Army reserve > | marksmanship teams and activities are going to be stopped. If you = have > | friends in high places or know someone who does > | we could use the help with some face ripping letters. > | Bob > | > | > | -----Original Message----- > | From: Harry Russell > | Subject: All-USAR Shooting Team > | > | I got this email from Helmut today. It was a bit of a shock, = although > | a lot of us had seen it coming; here it is in black and white. At = the > | end of Perry, we have to turn in our equipment. > | Many of you have connections in high places, whether it be the > | military or politicians. We need to call in on all of our favors to = try > | and keep the program going. I need someone to write a letter and = pass > | out to our teammates to sign and mail to our Representatives in > | Congress, Senate and anyone else who will listen, including USARC. = The > | letter should describe the benefits that the Army receives by having = us > | as a Team and also the long tradition that we have had. We have > | wordsmiths on the Team who are more eloquent than I am and know the > | history of the Team better. Please let me know ASAP if you would = like > | to volunteer to do this. If not, I'll take the bull by the horns = and > | try to write it myself. Other Service Teams may also have a = personal > | interest because if our program is cancelled, theirs also may be > | adversely affected. Let's go down with a fight and try and save our > | program!!! > | > | MAJ Russell > | > | > | Gentlemen, > | > | 1. It is my sad duty to inform you that the USAR is the first = military > | organization to cancel competitive marksmanship activities. = Hopefully > | the USAR will be the only one to do so. > | > | 2. Each of the teams (Pistol, Rifle, and Combat) will make = arrangements > | to turn-in their equipment at the completion of this year's > | competitions. The equipment (which includes firearms) will be = returned > | to the property book holder, the Small Arms Training Team (SATT). > | a. Pistol Team. All soldiers competing in the National Matches > | will turn their equipment in at Camp Perry, OH, after the pistol = phase > | of the National Matches. Any team members who do not participate in = the > | Nationals must make arrangements to turn their equipment into the = SATT > | no later than 31 July 2000. > | b. Rifle Team. All soldiers competing in the National Matches will > | turn their equipment in at Camp Perry, OH, after the rifle phase of = the > | National Matches. Any team members who do not participate in the > | Nationals must make arrangements to turn their equipment into the = SATT > | no later than 31 August 2000. > | c. Combat Team. All soldiers will turn their equipment into the SATT > | no later than 31 August 2000. > | > | 3. Ammunition will be issued in quantities that will be expended no > | later than the turn-in dates. The remaining ammunition will be > | consolidated for transfer to the Army Marksmanship Unit or the = National > | Guard Marksmanship Training Unit for use in their competitive > | marksmanship programs. MAJ Steven Spencer, as the All-USAR Shooting = Team > | Ammunition Officer, is responsible for the > | disposition of ammunition. > | > | 4. The Army Marksmanship Unit will not order any new ammunition. > | Expendable items necessary for the successful completion of this = year's > | activities may still be procured. > | > | 5. Additional information will be provided in future correspondence. > | > | 6. If we have to go out, let's go out with a big BANG (at = Interservice > | and the Nationals that is). > | > | > | Helmut J. Hein Lynn Belcher > | Assistant Branch Chief, > | Individual Training Branch > | U.S. Army Reserve Command > | (404) 464-8315; fax 8313; DSN 367 > | HeinHelm@usarc-emh2.army.mil [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fwd: John Lott vs The APBnews.com (fwd) Date: 19 May 2000 16:19:10 PST On May 19, C. D. Tavares wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] APB News poll: John Lott complains the NY Times falsified data to promote gun control. Do you believe the NY Times would ever do such a thing? In a New York second. Let them hear from us! >You got to see this >http://www.apbnews.com/cjsystem/findingjustice/2000/05/18/lott0518_01.html > >check out the poll and vote ! -- Tavares@alum.mit.edu | http://home.earthlink.net/~cdtavares | RKBA! Whoever prefers life to death, happiness to suffering, well-being to misery must defend without compromise private ownership in the means of production. -- LUDWIG VON MISES (1920) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: If a Knife is a Weapon...Chaos (fwd) Date: 20 May 2000 07:42:42 PST Interesting article from rec.knives..... On May 19, gunner@cyberg8t.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In article <39366bf9.49185983@news.cyberg8t.com> you wrote: >On Mon, 15 May 2000 11:07:05 GMT, jason wrote: >>Gunner, >> >>This is really interesting. Do happen to have any numbers? >>I'm kind of curious as to actually how many deaths are >>attributable to guns in the UK and OZ. Per capita numbers >>would also be telling. >> >>(Pls, no sarcasm or malice involved. I'd really like some >>dialogue on this.) >> >>Thanks in advance, >> >>Jason >> >>- >May 12, 2000 >Gun Control: Myths and Realities >by David Lampo >David Lampo is the publications director at the Cato Institute. >The number of well-publicized public shootings during the past few years, >especially the tragedy at Columbine High School, has re-energized the gun >control movement. As a show of strength, a coalition of gun control groups has >organized a "Million Mom March" to be held in Washington, D.C. on Mother's >Day, >an event designed to stir up emotions rather than promote rational thought. >And >when one looks at the facts about gun control, it's easy to see why the >anti-gun lobby relies on emotion rather than logic to make its case. >Think you know the facts about gun control? If your only source of information >is the mainstream media, what you think you know may not be correct. Take the >quiz below and test your knowledge. >1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents. >False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although >you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last >year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age >died >in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age >group >was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space >heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die >from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great >majority >of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence. >2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the >hands of criminals. >False. Contrary to President Clinton's claims, there is no "gun show >loophole." >All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the >only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. >According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by >criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally >by people who passed background checks. >3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the >deficiencies >of current gun control laws. >False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in >amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it >seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this >tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased >by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 >handgun >used by them was already illegal. >4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower >crime rates than those that don't. >True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to >carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime >rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than >states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest >violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used >for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the >estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns. >5. Waiting periods lower crime rates. >False. Numerous studies have been conducted on the effects of waiting periods, >both before and after the federal Brady bill was passed in 1993. Those studies >consistently show that there is no correlation between waiting periods and >murder or robbery rates. Florida State University professor Gary Kleck >analyzed >data from every U.S. city with a population over 100,000 and found that >waiting >periods had no statistically significant effect. Even University of Maryland >anti-gun researcher David McDowell found that "waiting periods have no >influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides." >6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works. >False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and >yet >the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws >and >murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In >Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on >demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both >nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, >and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of >gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low >despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in >the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no >correlation between access to guns and crime. >The basic premise of the gun control movement, that easy access to guns causes >higher crime, is contradicted by the facts, by history and by reason. Let's >hope more people are catching on. >-------------------------- > >"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an > invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write > a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort > the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, > solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program > a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die > gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Robert Heinlein >Rosies Page http://rosie.acmecity.com/flower/277/ >homepage http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/gunner [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ken Mitchell" Subject: ACT NOW!! (fwd) Date: 20 May 2000 13:47:01 -0700 Another gun poll, on MS-NBC http://www.msnbc.com, and go to the "NRA" article. You can try http://www.msnbc.com/news/409691.asp to go directly to the article. Ken Mitchell Citrus Heights, CA kmitchel@gvn.net 916-955-9152 (voicemail) http://www.gvn.net/~creative/ "In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other." Voltaire - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Dependency SSN/TIN alternative] (fwd) Date: 21 May 2000 12:06:30 PST On May 21, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ====================================================================== SCAN THIS NEWS 5.21.2000 Just received the following note about a bill being considered to provide an "alternative" to supplying SSNs in order to claim children on tax returns. As I have stated in the past, I personally oppose this and any other such "alternative" bill requiring affidavits and certifications "swearing" to the government that one's children are their own. How about a tattoo or microchip as an alternative to SSNs? As is so often the case, the Home School Legal Defense Fund organization (of which my family was a long-standing member for many years) -- well meaning as it is -- just doesn't get it. Get the government OUT OF OUR FAMILIES' LIVES. Period! No affidavits. Do certifications. No verifications. If you like jumping through hoops at the government's whim; if getting permission from the government to "claim" your children is your idea of "freedom, you might want to support Hostettler's SSN-alternative bill. Following is the late notice I just received -- should anyone whish to respond. And following that is the text of the subject bill. Scott -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 Christopher Klicka with Home School Legal Defense Association will be testifying before congress on Monday in support of H.R. 2494 ( Cong. Hostettler bill ). He needs by tomorrow as many written testimonies as possible which include, 1) a brief statement of belief, 2) a statement of hardship that you are suffering by having to endure the pressure of compromising your convictions, and 3) the amount of money involved and its consequences for your family. this needs to be E-mailed to: mailto:testimony@hslda.org by Sunday, May 21, 2000. Sorry for the late notification. I only learned about this last Friday. http://thomas.loc.gov/ To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits and deductions on a tax return. (Introduced in the House) HR 2494 IH 106th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 2494 To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits and deductions on a tax return. IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES July 13, 1999 Mr. HOSTETTLER (for himself, Mr. GOODLING, Mrs. CHENOWETH, Mr. PAUL, Mr. PITTS, Mr. BUYER, Mr. ENGLISH, Mr. MCINTOSH, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. SCHAFFER, Mr. STUMP, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. STEARNS, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. SHOWS, Mr. BALDACCI, and Mr. GARY MILLER of California) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means A BILL To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits and deductions on a tax return. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, SECTION 1. RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM TIN REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO DEPENDENTS. (a) IN GENERAL- Section 6109 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to identifying numbers) is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection: `(i) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION- `(1) IN GENERAL- For purposes of any requirement to provide a TIN under a section of this title specified in paragraph (3), a taxpayer who has a sincerely held religious belief under which the taxpayer is conscientiously opposed to obtaining an identifying number with respect to a qualified dependent may, in lieu of such number, include the following with a return, statement, or other document required under the authority of this title: `(A) An affidavit describing such religious belief. `(B) An affidavit from a third party under which the third party, under penalty of perjury, states from personal knowledge that the qualified dependent meets one or more of the qualifications of each of the sections specified in paragraph (3) under which a credit or deduction is claimed by the taxpayer. `(C) Documentation to establish the relationship of the dependent to the taxpayer. Such documentation shall include a birth certificate, medical record, school record, or insurance record, or a combination thereof. `(2) QUALIFIED DEPENDENT- For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `qualified dependent' means a dependent (as defined in section 152) who is described in paragraph (1)(B) or (5)(C) of section 151(c). `(3) CREDIT AND DEDUCTION SECTIONS SPECIFIED- For purposes of paragraph (1), the sections specified in this paragraph are-- `(A) section 21 (relating to expenses for household and dependent care services necessary for gainful employment), `(B) section 23 (relating to adoption expenses), `(C) section 24 (relating to child tax credit), `(D) section 25A (relating to Hope and Lifetime Learning Credits). `(E) section 32 (relating to earned income credit), and `(F) section 151 (relating to allowance of deductions for personal exemptions).'. (b) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendment made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 1996. Social security is the bane of individual liberty. - SAM ====================================================================== Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. ====================================================================== Reply to: ====================================================================== This is a copy of ScanThisNews, sent to contributors. For information on contributing, please visit our contributions web page: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-contributions.html To subscribe to the free ScanInReview abbreviated newsletter, send a message to and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message. For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml ====================================================================== [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: larry ball Subject: Re: Dependency SSN/TIN alternative] (fwd) Date: 21 May 2000 16:34:47 -0500 It would seem if this lady wants the government out of her life that she might accomplish this by not claiming the children as dependents. If you donot claim you do not have to declare. It is like the fish, if it avoids the bait it does not get caught. Even though the SSN for children might lead to some greater evil, the government has a right to know that they actually exist. After all no parent would claim a child on their tax return that does not exist, would they???? Well, really! You do not have to take their meat, but if you do, you have to use their butcher. Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Bill Vance wrote: > On May 21, Margi Crook wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > From: "ScanThisNews" > Subject: [FP] Dependency SSN/TIN alternative > Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 09:48:56 -0500 > > ====================================================================== > SCAN THIS NEWS > 5.21.2000 > > Just received the following note about a bill being considered to provide an > "alternative" to supplying SSNs in order to claim children on tax returns. > As I have stated in the past, I personally oppose this and any other such > "alternative" bill requiring affidavits and certifications "swearing" to the > government that one's children are their own. > > How about a tattoo or microchip as an alternative to SSNs? > > As is so often the case, the Home School Legal Defense Fund organization (of > which my family was a long-standing member for many years) -- well meaning > as it is -- just doesn't get it. Get the government OUT OF OUR FAMILIES' > LIVES. Period! No affidavits. Do certifications. No verifications. > > If you like jumping through hoops at the government's whim; if getting > permission from the government to "claim" your children is your idea of > "freedom, you might want to support Hostettler's SSN-alternative bill. > > Following is the late notice I just received -- should anyone whish to > respond. And following that is the text of the subject bill. > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: David > Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2000 > Subject: Fw: Dependency exemption and SSN > > Christopher Klicka with Home School Legal Defense Association will be > testifying before congress on Monday in support of H.R. 2494 ( Cong. > Hostettler bill ). He needs by tomorrow as many written testimonies as > possible which include, 1) a brief statement of belief, 2) a statement of > hardship that you are suffering by having to endure the pressure of > compromising your convictions, and 3) the amount of money involved and its > consequences for your family. this needs to be E-mailed to: > > mailto:testimony@hslda.org by Sunday, May 21, 2000. > > Sorry for the late notification. I only learned about this last Friday. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > http://thomas.loc.gov/ > > To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption > from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits > and deductions on a tax return. (Introduced in the House) > > HR 2494 IH > > 106th CONGRESS > > 1st Session > > H. R. 2494 > > To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption > from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits > and deductions on a tax return. > > IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES > > July 13, 1999 > > Mr. HOSTETTLER (for himself, Mr. GOODLING, Mrs. CHENOWETH, Mr. PAUL, Mr. > PITTS, Mr. BUYER, Mr. ENGLISH, Mr. MCINTOSH, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. > SCHAFFER, Mr. STUMP, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. STEARNS, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. SHOWS, Mr. > BALDACCI, and Mr. GARY MILLER of California) introduced the following bill; > which was referred to the Committee on Ways and Means > > A BILL > > To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide a religious exemption > from providing identifying numbers for dependents to claim certain credits > and deductions on a tax return. > > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United > States of America in Congress assembled, > > SECTION 1. RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION FROM TIN REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO DEPENDENTS. > > (a) IN GENERAL- Section 6109 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating > to identifying numbers) is amended by adding at the end the following new > subsection: > > `(i) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION- > > `(1) IN GENERAL- For purposes of any requirement to provide a TIN under a > section of this title specified in paragraph (3), a taxpayer who has a > sincerely held religious belief under which the taxpayer is conscientiously > opposed to obtaining an identifying number with respect to a qualified > dependent may, in lieu of such number, include the following with a return, > statement, or other document required under the authority of this title: > > `(A) An affidavit describing such religious belief. > > `(B) An affidavit from a third party under which the third party, under > penalty of perjury, states from personal knowledge that the qualified > dependent meets one or more of the qualifications of each of the sections > specified in paragraph (3) under which a credit or deduction is claimed by > the taxpayer. > > `(C) Documentation to establish the relationship of the dependent to the > taxpayer. Such documentation shall include a birth certificate, medical > record, school record, or insurance record, or a combination thereof. > > `(2) QUALIFIED DEPENDENT- For purposes of paragraph (1), the term `qualified > dependent' means a dependent (as defined in section 152) who is described in > paragraph (1)(B) or (5)(C) of section 151(c). > > `(3) CREDIT AND DEDUCTION SECTIONS SPECIFIED- For purposes of paragraph (1), > the sections specified in this paragraph are-- > > `(A) section 21 (relating to expenses for household and dependent care > services necessary for gainful employment), > > `(B) section 23 (relating to adoption expenses), > > `(C) section 24 (relating to child tax credit), > > `(D) section 25A (relating to Hope and Lifetime Learning Credits). > > `(E) section 32 (relating to earned income credit), and > > `(F) section 151 (relating to allowance of deductions for personal > exemptions).'. > > (b) EFFECTIVE DATE- The amendment made by this section shall apply to > taxable years beginning after December 31, 1996. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Social security is the bane of individual liberty. - SAM > ====================================================================== > Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: > 1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or > 2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. > ====================================================================== > Reply to: > ====================================================================== > This is a copy of ScanThisNews, sent to contributors. For information > on contributing, please visit our contributions web page: > http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-contributions.html > > To subscribe to the free ScanInReview abbreviated newsletter, send a > message to and type "subscribe scan" in > the BODY. Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message. > For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. > Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: > www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml > ====================================================================== > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [Fratrum] [Fwd: We all owe her Thanks] (fwd) Date: 21 May 2000 19:35:22 PST On May 21, Margi Crook wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I received the below e-mail from Sandy in Dallas. This lady has large Kazoos!! I cannot tell you how great it is to see activism instead of just constant e-mails. This woman and her son (my hat is off to how she raised the young man, too) stood tall for each and every American!! They took their time and energy and spent it constructively for all of us. We owe a thanks to each and evry 2nd Amendment Sister that stood for us! Not many had what it takes to stand up to the criticism of the politically correct, but Sandy and Son did. I am so proud for and of her. Yes, I wish I could have been there also. Sandy, it is people like you that hold the best hope for preserving what Liberty is left in America, and represent the possibility of the full restoration of our Republic. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I feel so guilty for not being more active. My ever waking moment has been involved with my business. Thank you, Sandy. Keep it up. You are a damn good leader. Jim Welch xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Jim, Wish you have been in Fort Worth! You would have been so proud of us! Ivan, my mad son, took $40 and began on Monday to promote a protest of the protest. He first contacted the Second Amendment Sisters and asked if he could organize in Fort Worth. A single word came back, "GO!" We issued flyers at the gun show and around town. Calls were made non stop by me, him and his friends. We mustered in 75 really good folks who presented themselves extraordinarily well. A great banner unfurled with the second Amendment in 6inch type. An Elian poster asking if this was a child proof weapon or just another Waco dream for Janet. "Educate, don't legislate" was our shout. Channel 11 focused on me when I asked a shouter if he thought only police should have guns. Ivan got airtime on 4, 5 and 8. He planned the event maneuvers. It was take the high ground behind the podium and close to it so that they could not get media coverage of their speeches with all the children in the background as they had planned. It worked like magic. They thought we were going to just stand across the street and be nice with our mean knuckle dragging wild shooters. Just as they were within 50 yards of the podium, we moved into place and our wings moved out to allow no breach of the space behind us. We stood tall and each displayed our posters while making a quiet STAND for the second. As the mommies approached with gapping months and looks of disbelief, some of their hired leaders, one rather chubby limp wristed Black fello comes to mind, began to shout rather unfriendly slurs at us. Our chant began. Then the mothers started shouting. The saber rattling went on for some time giving both sides a great deal of energy. The orchestrators were clustered around the police and frantically pointing their fingers. Our congressman told Ivan and I we had lost all rights to speak to him. LOL, like I want to talk to Martin Frost's house boy anyway! The officers finally filed into rank between us and the stage. We shifted one step back to allow them a passing space. The lead officer stood in front of Ivan who was in the middle and asked, "Can I get you to leave without any trouble?" The answer was NO. Ivan had instructed the group that once the officers asked three times, we would parade back to our first position. They did not ask again. Instead the officers stood and protected us. A paid provocateur, obvious by his unmother like appearance, came charging our line. Spouting that he would get us arrested. I asked how and he began shouting things that would cause a sailor to faint. He poked his finger in my face and began to swing a small mommy's paper hand fan at us. We did not flinch. The officer however shifted by spreading his legs in a wide stand, barely tripping the fella and nudging him on the shoulder as he shifted his weight. Then the officers head snapped around and he began a staring contest with the provocateur. The guy blinked first and retreated. Later he was standing in our line. We supposed he was waiting for a buddy from the other side to provoke him. We gave him a sign and closed ranks closely around him. The officers on that end kept a close watch on the rascal. Who knows, maybe he was just really a nutcase. Either way, he was not even a bump in the road. Our shouting and chanting kept good pace with the speakers. My sign was special. It just said "LIES". It would be held up when one was heard. Down when one woman spoke of teaching our children tolerance. Up again when they spoke of how guns are shooting our kids. "Somebody pulled the trigger lady", was the shout. More kids die in 5 gallon buckets! Pipe bombs are more deadly than a gun! We need plumbing control, not more gun control! Guns are illegal on school grounds now! Illegal in DC. Not illegal on gun ranges! When was the last time a mass shooting happened at a gun range?" On and on we went. It was great fun. We had some mothers come and stand on our side. Not one of our protesters left for theirs. How many millions did that protest cost? How many thousands in Fort Worth? Every mom had a T-shirt, a button, a black carnation and a hand fan. Wanta guess? Wanta guess the amount of damage $40 and 75 people did to their little parade? :-) Lon Burnam was furious with us. Ivan took protest lessons from Ron 10 years ago. Ivan learned his lessons well. Lon screamed a question at me. "Would you protest a funeral? These poor mothers are grieving their dead children!" My response was, "You bet, as long as you keep dragging out those kids caskets for political mileage! I certainly will!" So, the next time someone tells ya that a small group of dedicated citizens can't make a difference when they carry truth in a prepared force, don't buy it. Wish you'd been here Jim, it was great! Sandy [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [our-constitution] MMM Pop Quiz (fwd) Date: 21 May 2000 22:26:52 PST On May 21, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ///SENT FYI //////// >From: Chris Smith >Date: 21 May 00 17:04:30 MDT >Reply-To: our-constitution@egroups.com >Subject: [our-constitution] MMM Pop Quiz > >A quiz for Million Mom marchers to consider. OK now no cheating > >1. Ted Kennedy, Charles Schumer and Barbara Boxer strongly denounce private >gun ownership. Their bodyguards, however, carry: > >A. Berettas >B. Glocks >C. Garbage can lids >D. Slingshots > >2. You and your baby daughter are awakened in the middle of the night by >your estranged, abusive ex-husband. Although you have a restraining order >against him, he is drunk and beats down your front door with a crowbar >screaming, "If I can't have you, nobody can!" You should: > >A. Call Barbara Boxer. >B. Call 911 >C. Threaten legal action. >D. Grab a ping-pong paddle. >E. Reason with him (maybe he was an abused child). > >3. Since 1987, 34 states have enacted concealed carry laws. Violent crime >decreased in these states and the anticipated "Dodge City" mayhem never >materialized. Even critics were surprised. Concealed carry succeeded >because: > >A. Sunspot activity decreased after 1987. >B. Trigger locks rendered guns inoperative and therefore safe. >C. Sarah Brady scared the crooks away. >D. A healing wave of pacifism swept over the hearts of criminals in these 34 >states. >E. All of the above. > >4. Schools, churches, subways, and restaurants have often been assaulted, but >rarely military bases, police stations, or shooting clubs because: > >A. The targets aren't sitting or kneeling. >B. VA benefits are lost if you shoot a soldier. >C. You can't enter an army base without bumper stickers. >D. Schools don't threaten felons with detention hall. >E. All of the above. > >5. Logic, reason, and common sense: > >A. Are irrelevant if they contradict your feelings. >B. Should not apply to firearms. >C. Defy opinion polls. >D. Pale beside hysteria, fear, and political ambition. >E. All of the above. > >Regards, >Chris >http://www.inficad.com/~csmith > > From a heathen and a pagan on the side of the rebel Jesus. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] Now _thats_ a bit different..... -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: I need help/aborticide (fwd) Date: 21 May 2000 23:29:47 PST On May 21, Lynn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -Check your Dictionary from the days when America was American. (nore so than now, anyway) > > My old (1951) Webster's Dictionary has these > definitions. I looked in a newer one and > ABORTICIDE is conveniently missing. > > ************************** > > abort (L. abortare, fr. abortus, PAST > PARTICIPLE > of aboriri, fr. ab + oriri to rise, be born) > to give birth prematurely > > abortion- the expulsion of the mammalian fetus > prematurely, particularly at any time before it > is viable; miscarriage. > > aborticide- Act of destroying a fetus in the > womb > > -cide a suffix meaning a killing > > abortionist- One who produces criminal > abortions > > ****************************************** > Aborticide is a word that needs to be used much > more frequently. As you know, just because the > LAW has been passed, it does not change the > fact > that aborticide IS murder, and even if man does > not judge, our God in heaven will. > > ===== Gun Owners choose... Best pro gun news... Silver based currency... News from out west... Patriot Mary Kay Lady... America's Voice... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Interesting Analysis (fwd) Date: 22 May 2000 10:43:23 PST On May 22, Charles F. Nawrocki wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ///SENT FYI??// This is a very interesting article. Better reading than most./////////// Looks like we are heading for more of the same mess./////// >Interesting analysis. > >The Art Of War - Sun Tzu and Four American Presidents > >By Tom Adkins > >Over two thousand years ago, an ancient Chinese warrior wrote a brief book >on warfare. His name was Sun Tzu. His book, The Art of War, is now a staple >for virtually any military strategic training. Sun Tzu barely mentioned >weaponry. Instead, he focused on strategies. Strategies that convert to >winning and losing. His insights into the nature of competition, battle and >diplomacy apply to virtually every aspect of life, from the battlefield to >the boardroom, from the football arena to the global arena. > >Within this context, let's briefly examine the greatest challenges of our >four most recent American presidents. > >Jimmy Carter versus Leonid Brezhnev 1976-1980 > >I say: Know your enemy and know >yourself; in a hundred battles, you >will never be defeated. When you are >ignorant of the enemy but know yourself, >your chances of winning or losing are >equal. If ignorant both of your enemy >and of yourself, you are sure to be >defeated in every battle. -Sun Tzu > > From the end of World War Two, United States foreign policy towards the >Soviet Union was essentially a "keep up with the Jones-ski's." If the >Soviets made a bomb, we made a bomb. If the Soviets built a tank, we built >a tank. > >Essentially, we treaded water. > >Jimmy Carter was the first president to buck that trend. Carter slashed our >military and proposed we become buddies with the Soviets. The Soviet Union >promptly took over ten countries. When the USSR marched into Afghanistan, >Carter responded by withdrawing from the Olympics. Carter didn't understand >that leaders bent upon world domination usually aren't concerned with track >and field events. During Carter's term, world leaders smelled his weakness. >The OPEC nations pulled back production of oil, driving prices to four >times their 1976 level. This created "Stagflation," when energy prices >skyrocketing regardless of economic conditions. The cost of everything rose >overnight, crushing the American economy. > > >But Carter wasn't done. He decided that it would be wonderful to put >virtually the entire nation on the dole. All sorts of government >entitlement programs were created and expanded. Few worked and most of them >caused heavy damage. Taxes rose. The economy slumped. Interest rates >quadrupled. Poverty rose. The economy staggered. All because Carter wanted >to play horseshoes with the Soviet Union, who essentially wanted to destroy >the United States. Carter invited them to a tea party. The Soviets showed >up and played smash-mouth rugby. > >Our military was toothless, our intelligence organizations were hollow, and >our nation was floundering. Carter left office with America on its knees. > >Nobody respected us, and we were powerless to show them otherwise. > >It is a doctrine of war not to assume the enemy will not come, but rather >to rely on one's readiness to meet him; not to presume that he will not >attack, but rather to make one's self invincible. -Sun Tzu > >Ronald Reagan versus Mikhail Gorbachev 1980-1988 > >To subdue the enemy without fighting >is the supreme excellence. -Sun Tzu > >Ronald Reagan inherited a terrible economy, a nation with no international >respect, and a bold, expanding Soviet Union. He tossed away the old concept >of military parity along with the Carter concept of capitulation and took >it upon himself to defeat the Soviet Union. Reagan recognized that a >socialist economy barely functions. By rebuilding American armed forces, >Reagan challenged the Soviet Union to keep up. They obliged. Our military >spending increased to 27% of our federal budget. > >But the Soviets needed 60% of their budget to keep up. That math didn't >work well for the USSR. But the Soviets were willing to bleed their people >dry. > >Nothing is more difficult than the art >of maneuvering for advantageous >positions. -Sun Tzu > >Reagan had a stroke of brilliance. The Soviets relied upon hard currency to >maintain their straining military budget. And there was only one source of >Soviet hard currency; Oil. Reagan tripled the foreign aid to Israel, Egypt >and Saudi Arabia to about 3 billion each, but under the following >conditions: > >1-They stop fighting. >2-They buy American military hardware. >3-Saudi Arabia increase oil production to meet American demand. > >The Saudi's opened up the oil spigots. Overnight, the price of oil dropped >below $20 per barrel. In one fell swoop, Reagan brought peace to the middle >east, boosted the American economy with lower energy prices, and eliminated >the only source of money to fund the Soviet army. It actually became more >expensive for the Russians to pump oil than it was worth. The USSR was on >its knees, ripe for defeat. Shortly after, Reagan announced the Strategic >Defense Initiative. The USSR tossed in its hand. Within 24 months, the USSR >was no longer in existence. > >Until Clinton, our economy benefited from lower oil prices and less >military spending. All because Reagan won the Cold War. That Victory wasn't >the sum of efforts from previous presidents. Reagan alone won the Cold War. >Without firing a shot. Few give him credit for his utter political >brilliance. > >When Reagan left office, America held unprecedented prestige and strength. > >The victories won by a master of war >gain him neither reputation for wisdom >nor merit for courage. How subtle and >insubstantial, that the expert leaves >no trace. How divinely mysterious, >that he is inaudible. Thus, he is master >of his enemy's fate. -Sun Tzu > >George Bush versus Saddaam Hussein 1990-1992 > >A speedy victory is the main object in war.-Sun Tzu > >Sometimes, diplomacy is as delicate as gossamer. Sometimes diplomacy is a >sledgehammer. And sometimes, it's both. The first serious challenge to >George Bush's "New World Order" was issued by Saddaam Hussein. Everyone >knew Reagan didn't take any crap from anyone. Like all bullies, Hussein was >anxious to test the mettle of this new president the press labeled as >"Wimp." > >Big mistake. Every world leader should know better than to believe the >American press. Not only did Bush have iron balls, he had brilliant >diplomatic skills. He actually knitted the whole world into a blanket of >agreement against Hussein's invasion of Kuwait. This political >accomplishment was like herding a hundred cats. Except cats with nuclear >claws, bad attitudes, and who often hated one another. > >While we have heard of stupid haste in >war, we have not yet seen a clever >operation that was prolonged. -Sun Tzu > >When the Gulf War was over, the United States enjoyed its peak influence in >the world. Nobody doubted any facet of our nation whatsoever. In less than >ten years, Reagan and Bush took America from laughingstock to absolute >respect. Say what you want about Bush. He was uncomfortable. Boring. And he >didn't discuss his underwear on MTV. But diplomatically, he was brilliant, >perhaps better than Reagan. He knew what had to be done. He knew it was a >monumental task. He knew how to do it. And he did it. Bush left office with >America unquestionably the only world superpower, allies all over the >globe, and very few enemies. > >The general who in advancing does not seek >personal fame, and in withdrawing is not >concerned with avoiding punishment, but >whose only purpose is to protect the people >and promote the best interests of his sovereign >is like a precious jewel to the state. -Sun Tzu > >Bill Clinton versus China > >Appraise war in terms of the fundamental >factors. The first of these factors is moral >influence. -Sun Tzu > >Befuddled Americans think Bill Clinton's major war is in Yugoslavia. >Actually, Clinton's war is with China. And he already lost. Under Clinton's >watch, China has successfully stolen, bought, or was simply given the >blueprints for every modern American nuclear weapon-and the guidance >systems to accurately deliver them. Like Reagan's brilliant victory over >the Soviet Union, China never fired a shot. They simply waited until we had >a corruptible president, and simply corrupted him. > >One who is not acquainted with the >designs of his neighbors should not >enter into alliances with them. -Sun Tzu > >Bill Clinton's political prostitution has never been questioned. It's >always been a matter of price. Wise world leaders have long recognized >Clinton as an egotistical political charlatan, capable of being elected in >a nation enamored with personality and ignorant of wisdom. Such leaders >aren't spun by James Carville and Dan Rather. Instead, they laugh at >Clinton's bumbling and self-aggrandizement. Then take advantage of him. No >wonder the Chinese wanted Clinton to be president. > >All warfare is based on deception. There is >no place where espionage is not used. Offer >the enemy bait to lure him. -Sun Tzu > >The political greed of Clinton and his Democrats drove them directly into >the Chinese espionage trap. Like all nations, China has been snooping >around for years, picking up a snippet here, a spoonful there. But under >Clinton's watch, China got the entire bag of goodies. It wasn't even >expensive. For a few million dollars to the DNC, China gained complete >access and even protection via Janet Reno's Justice Department. When >Clinton's people discovered the damage, they did nothing. When the damage >came to light, Clinton's administration tried to blame everyone else. What >could they do? > >Admit their treason? > >Those who excel in war first cultivate their >own humanity and justice and maintain their >laws and institutions. By these means they >make their governments invincible. -Sun Tzu > >Led by his pathological ego, Clinton breaks rules and laws at his, >victimizing friends and foes alike. In the meantime, he stumbles from one >manufactured crisis to another, all designed to cover his tracks. He >distracts the nation by flinging bombs across the world, converting >sleeping dogs into resentful enemies. Meanwhile, China picked our pockets >and built coalitions against us while Clinton parades around, a team of >flakes shilling for him. Clinton inherited a world that respected America, >and like a drunken gambler, parlayed American prestige into the gutter. He >managed to destroy the careful coalition of nations aligned against Iraq. >He ruined world confidence in NATO. He managed to weaken Russia as a state, >yet strengthen their diplomatic presence. He strengthened China's hand >unimaginably, creating instability in the region. He simultaneously stoked >the nuclear fires between India and Pakistan, two wary but previously >contented enemies. > >Now, rogue nations such as North Korea and Iran are stretching their claws, >armed with Chinese missiles which can reach America. And Taiwan is just a >bit edgier today. When Clinton leaves office, America will have less >friends than his first day as President. Thanks to Reagan and Bush, the >United States isn't on her knees. But Clinton proved America is willing to >turn a few tricks for the right price. > >When the leader is morally weak and his >discipline not strict, when his instructions >and guidance are not enlightened, when >there are no consistent rules. Neighboring >rulers will take advantage of this". -Sun Tzu > >Every nation is perpetually at war. For a president, every move, every >word, every action has consequences to the entire nation from that moment >well into the future. The concepts behind successfully leading a nation are >not new, but the arrogant and power-hungry seem to create endless varieties >of how to commit the same mistakes. The less we pay attention, the greater >damage each mistake creates. > >On this Memorial Day, remember those who fought for our nation, especially >those who gave their lives so we may be free. Consider how easily their >sacrifice can be squandered. And how often it has happened. And whether you >will ever let that happen to another American son or daughter. > >War is a matter of vital importance to >the state; a matter of life or death, the >road either to survival or to ruin. -Sun Tzu > >Randy Bates >ZIBEX Corporation >1640 W. Sam Houston Pkwy N >Houston, Texas 77043 >Ph.713-479-4342 >fax 713-479-4399 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: 45 Slaves Set Free In Texas - HALLELUJIAH (fwd) Date: 22 May 2000 10:45:23 PST On May 22, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY Another example of walking the walk. Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From: TOMaxton You might like to copy and send this out. I think it is the start of something big. Tom I have confirmed the following post I received and I am sending to you FYI. Direct your company to do business with Arrow Plastics if you can. The content of the post can be verified by yourself quickly being that on Arrow Plastics Web site they clearly state they have taken the following action. My hat is off to them. Walter Burien C.E.V.I. -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dick Simkanin" > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Ted Rall on the abortion debate: let honesty rain down! (fwd) Date: 22 May 2000 13:18:57 PST On May 22, Ry Jones wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Pass it along... http://www.uexpress.com/ups/opinion/column/ru/rallcom/2000/04/ru000427.html RATIONALIZATION NATION An Anti-BS Abortion Manifesto NEW YORK -- I believe that women ought to possess the legal right to murder their unborn babies. In other words, I'm pro-choice in the way that the vast majority of Americans are pro-choice: I think upper-income married couples who have abortions to avoid scheduling conflicts are despicable, that having multiple abortions is obscene, and that parental-consent laws are de facto nullification of Roe v. Wade (abortion exists so that unwed teen moms can turn themselves back into unwed teens). Unlike most of my friends, however, I refuse to rationalize my stance on abortion by claiming that fetuses aren't babies. I didn't kick ass in biology, but I was awake enough to grasp that life begins at conception; the instant a lucky sperm fertilizes an egg, bang! -- an office clerk, an opera singer or a homeless person is born. That life begins with cell division is the only logical conclusion after all the standard pro-choice postulates are disregarded. If life begins only when the being can sustain itself outside the womb (a laughably common argument), then many college students are nothing more than lumps of legally abortable protoplasm. If it starts at the point when a fetus could be removed and still live, that date keeps moving backward thanks to advances in medicine, which would mean that a three-month-after-conception fetus born in 2000 would be entitled to legal protection while one born in 1950 would not. And if the Magic Moment occurs when fetuses start to look like people, whatever that means, what about adults with extreme birth defects? No, life begins at conception, give or take a few inconsequential moments. Though I don't agree with it, I respect the pro-life position. If life begins at conception, then abortion is the murder of innocent children, and even the most extreme measures -- including violent attacks on abortion clinics -- are morally justifiable to stop it. So why am I pro-choice? There's simply no other solution for teen pregnancy than to kill their children. Thousands of kids given up for adoption grow up being abused and neglected in foster homes and government facilities because they couldn't muster up sufficiently fetching smiles on viewing days. I submit that they'd be better off dead. Thousands more suffer through horrific poverty because their mothers didn't put them out of their misery. Animal shelters kill millions of dogs and cats every month; similarly, abortionists address the needs of irresponsible humans who choose to reproduce as unconsciously as dogs and cats. Like meat-eaters who couldn't kill a cow to save their lives, pro-choicers who rationalize their support of this necessary business aren't willing to face its sordid truth because they aren't truly pro-choice. Because these pathetic losers don't have the stomach for reality, they pretend that fetuses aren't alive, much less little people (can we say "babies"?). They hold a justifiable position based on flawed, patently untrue premises, and in so doing help contribute to the subtle undermining of abortion rights that has accelerated since the Reagan years -- first parental notification laws, now the possible banning of icky "partial-birth" abortions, and the overturning of Roe v. Wade if would-be-prez George W. Bush gets to appoint any justices to the Supreme Court. Though substantially more rhetorically consistent, pro-lifers suffer from their own obsessive self-rationalization. Some have been duly noted by those of us on the left -- pro-lifers more often than not favor murdering murderers, conservatives only care about babies before they're born, and so on -- but by far their worst rationalization is the exception they make in their anti-abortion position for cases of rape, incest and the life of the mother. After all, the offspring of rapists and their victims are just as innocent as any other fetuses. Permitting these murders of unborn babies renders the whole pro-life position null and void, but that's because they're not truly pro-life. Like their PC pals on the other side of the barricades, they refuse to face up to an uncomfortable truth: The only moral difference between advocating the murder of 99 unborn babies and the murder of one is that of scale. And the only principled conclusion on the mom's-life front must logically favor a brand-new baby with 78.2 years left to live over an adult woman, regardless of whether or not the latter votes in a swing state. Opposing abortion is by definition an absolutist position, and few Americans have the guts for ideologies more strident than mealy-mouthed compromise. Both sides of the abortion debate share this mental flaw; ironically, the perverse urge to settle with opponents by giving in on the details is why abortion is the least resolvable of contemporary political issues. It's also a revealing examination of our befuddled national state of mind. (Ted Rall, a cartoonist and columnist for Universal Press Syndicate, is the winner of the 2000 Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award for outstanding coverage of the problems of the disadvantaged. He also won in 1995.) COPYRIGHT 2000 TED RALL [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Two MMM Organizations? (fwd) Date: 22 May 2000 15:11:29 PST On May 22, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Reply-to: LadyLiberty@Visto.Com> FYI - PLEASE POST FAR & WIDE -- TOOOOOOOO EVERYONE!!!!!! I just pulled the following letter off of the MMM Web site -Here's their plan of attack! Ladies & gentlemen.... they have declared war! They do NOT want sensible gun laws! THEY WANT YOUR GUNS! PLEASE NOTE! They say the are "the Million Mom March is moving forward as the largest national grassroots organization in this country working for sensible gun laws." What happened to HCI ? I thought they were the largest? To: Million Mom Marchers From: Mary Leigh Blek Re: Forming a Million Mom Chapter Dated: May 19, 2000 The response since our incredible marches in Washington, D.C. and across the country has been incredible. There were 750,000 at the DC march and tens of thousands at local marches. The national office has been flooded with calls, e-mails and faxes offering support, congratulations and countless "thank yous". Our website had over 5 million "hits". Of course, we thank all of you who joined this new movement. We will pass sensible gun laws in America. The most frequently asked question is "How do I get involved?" I encourage you to start Million Mom March Chapters. The Bell Campaign has 45 chapters around the country that as of yesterday are now Million Mom March Chapters. The board of directors of The Bell Campaign voted unanimously to merge the two organizations for the benefit of the movement. The Bell Campaign=B9s legacy will live on through the bell as a symbol of freedom from gun trauma. The Bell Campaign=B9s model is providing for instant structure and organization, which we will need to stay on track. With that said, the Million Mom March is moving forward as the largest national grassroots organization in this country working for sensible gun laws. Let me briefly explain the structure of our new national organization since it serves as a model for local chapters. Under established rules of the internal revenue service (IRS), we have created two sister organizations. The Million Mom March is a non-profit 501(c)(4) organization, which will allow Million Mom Marchers to lobby for passage of our gun policies. The Million Mom March Foundation is a non- profit 501(c) (3) that is primarily educational and service oriented. The board of directors is composed of the same individuals for both "sides" of our organization. (Please note: 501(c)(4) and 501(c)(3) are references to the IRS codes that describe what are allowable activities for a lobbying and educational non-profit organization.) If you wish to form a Million Mom March Chapter, you can download an application form from our website or contact the national office for a hard copy on or after May 25, 2000. You will discover that a chapter has two "sides" too; a lobbying side=8Ba 501(c)(4), and an educational/service side a 501(c)(3). Therefore, if your interest is solely to lobby for sensible gun laws, you will be able to engage in those activities provided they are in keeping with the policy goals of the Million Mom March. If, on the other hand, you wish to establish a speaker=B9s bureau, or a youth gun violence prevention program, or be trained in providing "victim resources" just to name a few 501(c)(3) educational/service type programs, you will be able to pursue those activities. Or, maybe, you have members within your chapter who wish to engage in both types of activities, you will be able to accomplish that; it will be your choice. The most important distinction between the c4 and the c3 is that donations to a c3 are tax deductible while donations to a c4 are not. In addition, foundations are only allowed to provide grants to c3 organizations. If you are not familiar with the world of IRS regulations and non-profit organizations do not be deterred. After you apply to become a chapter, we will provide you with a Chapter Manual that will answer most, if not all, of your questions. Our national and regional offices will also be available to answer your questions. We plan to keep the process simple and streamlined as possible and we always appreciate your feedback so that we can make the process work for you. Our goal is to provide you with the legal structure to educate and serve your community, to lobby, or both. So, you wish to start a Million Mom March Chapter. Please submit an application form and we will start the process with you. Once you become an official chapter, we become that much more powerful as a unified voice. We simply ask that you bear with us as we respond to the thousands of requests for assistance. We are now part of an historic movement and it is just a matter of time and we will be living in a more peaceful and safe nation. Thank you for taking your precious time to make the Million Mom March march on! p.s. Donna Dees-Thomases has asked me to take over day-to-day responsibilities as she returns to being a fulltime mother. Donna will remain active in the MMM as a member of the Board. I remain... Your lady in liberty, Lady Liberty (aka: Patricia A. Saye) c/o P. O. Box #15070 Las Vegas, Nevada Phone: (702) 649-6808 E-Fax: (509) 278-2496 ATTENTION EVERYONE: The "new" E-Mail address I was using: LadyLiberty@Hushmail.Com does not meet my needs, as I thought it would. Therefore, it would be appreciated, if everyone would discontinue its use, and use: LadyLiberty@Visto.Com instead. However, the "new" E-Mail address is listed on the "Second Amendment Sisters" web site, and I like to restrict it to "official use" of the SAS-AIMM. Your help in this matter will be greatly appreciated. EFFECTIVE MAY 10TH, 2000 If possible, please hold all E-mail so they are not returned to you. I am packing my bags and going to Washington - District of Criminals, to join the SAS-AIMM to let them know how we feel about the infringement on our "right to keep and bear arms"! BEEN ABUSED BY THE GOVERNMENT? 1.) If you were scheduled as a guest on "The Liberty Hour" to tell your story of tyrannical government abuse & your interview was cancelled due to Internet audio problems, please contact me AFTER 05/15/2000 to be re-scheduled. You will be scheduled on a first-come basis. Please help me save time by typing "Re-Scheduled Interview" in the subject line. 2.) If you have never been scheduled as a guest on "The Liberty Hour" to tell your story of tyrannical government abuse & would like to share your story, please contact me AFTER 05/15/2000 to be scheduled. You will be scheduled on a first-come basis. Please help me save time by typing "Tyrannical Abuse" in the subject line. 3. If you have a video recording of tyrannical government abuse you have had to endure & you would like to have your story exposed, please contact me AFTER 05/15/2000 because I have an individual who wants to make a documentary of these tyrannical acts and expose our out-of-control government. Please help me save time by typing "Documentary Video" in the subject line. 4) Had enough tyrannical government abuse, then join me and others across the nation by becoming a member of TRT! What is TRT? The "Tyranny Response Team" and it is sweeping the nation with great response! Check out the "Tyranny Response Team" web site at: www.trteam.com Look to see if there is a TRT in your state. If not, start one today! If there is, join it today! There is no time to waste. THE GREAT THING ABOUT "TRT" IS, IT IS NOT A ONE ISSUE GROUP! THEY STAND UP FOR ALL OF OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, AND THEY ARE THERE WHEN YOU NEED THEM! CAN'T BEAT THAT! "The Minutemen of the year 2000!" Calling all Nevadans! There is not a "TRT" in Nevada and we need a few good men & women. Please join me and others working to form a "Nevada TRT" - The Minutemen of 2000 in Nevada! Call me: (702) 649-6808 for more information. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [slick-d] *****APC NEWSWIRE***** (fwd) Date: 22 May 2000 20:46:43 PST On May 22, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] To all: I'm sending this to more than one list. If you are on more than one list, you;ll get two posts of this. simply delete one and then read the other. Thanks. Odell -------- Original Message -------- *****APC NEWSWIRE***** http://www.americanpolicy.org/ May 19, 2000 Volume 3, Issue 8 A Publication of the American Policy Center Tom DeWeese, President Peyton Knight, Editor 13873 Park Center Road Herndon, VA 20171 703-925-0881 FAX: 703-925-0991 apc@americanpolicy.org ***Bill to Stop Clinton's Illegal Use of Executive Orders Picking Up Steam! Throughout Clinton's reign, he has made it clear that his policy initiatives are urgent, and therefore he needn't worry about consulting the nation's legislative bodies before signing them into law. But all of that may be about to change. Thanks to all your calls blasting Clinton's illegal use of executive orders, H.R. 2655 (The Separation of Powers Restoration Act) has picked up 40 co-sponsors! Congressmen Ron Paul (R-TX) and Jack Metcalf's (R-WA) bill would restore legislative authority to the Congress and prevent President Clinton from dictatorially legislating through use of executive order. Once again, thanks to your calls, H.R. 2655 now has a companion bill in the Senate. S. 1795 (The Executive Orders Limitation Act), put forth by Sen. Michael Crapo (R-RI), is the Senate version of H.R. 2655 and it needs our support! As you can see, your phone calls, letters and emails to your Representatives have been making a huge impact. But the battle is not over yet. Continue to call your Congressmen and urge them to support H.R. 2655 if they are not already doing so. If they are, let them know you stand behind them! IN ADDITION it is vitally important that we now begin pushing the issue in the Senate. Call both of your state's Senators and demand that they co-sponsor S. 1795. The future of our legislative process depends on it! ***ACTION TO TAKE*** 1. Call your Senators and tell them to co-sponsor S. 1795 which would return legislative authority to Congress and halt Clinton's illegal use of executive orders. Capitol Hill Senate Switchboard (202) 224-3121. 2. Continue contacting your Representatives, urging them to support H.R. 2655. We've made so much progress-don't stop now! Capitol Hill House Switchboard (202) 225-3121. *** CARA Passes in the House...But Fight is Far From Over Private property rights advocates and landowners received a major blow last week when the House of Representatives passed H.R. 701, the Conservation and Reinvestment Act (CARA). Apparently, owning half of our nation's land isn't enough for the Federal government. Even a majority of voting Republicans signed on-with only the few reliable property rights champions refusing to buckle. CARA would provide $1 billion a year to the Federal government to force private property owners off their land. Now the Senate must stop this monster cold in its tracks before a single landowner is denied his constitutional rights. President Clinton along with radical groups such as the Sierra Club have been lobbying tirelessly for this land-grabbing piece of legislation. That's why we must counter them with a firestorm of protest. The good news is we're not alone. Thanks to all our previous calls, letters and emails, a strong alliance of Senators is sitting poised, ready to kill this bill. But without continued action from our side those Senators could be rolled by the massive war chest of CARA supporters. S.25 (CARA) is due for a hearing in the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee on May 24th. It will then be voted on in the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee on June 14th. There is a good chance CARA will be defeated, BUT ONLY IF WE CONTINUE TO FIGHT! Call, write and email your Senators. This one's far from over! ***ACTION TO TAKE*** 1. Call your Senators and let them know you're adamantly opposed to S. 25. Capitol Hill Senate Switchboard (202) 224-3121. 2. Call Chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, Sen. Robert Smith (202-224-2841) and voice your opposition. 3. Call Chairman of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, Sen. Frank Murkowski (202-224-6665) and voice your opposition. *** Ritalin Manufacturer Facing Lawsuits and Congressional Action The battle to stop the drugging of hundreds of thousands of our nation's children received a huge boost recently. American lawyers have filed a lawsuit against Novartis, the 30 billion dollar Swiss pharmaceutical company that manufactures the mind-altering drug. The suit cites the growing number of children who have developed cardio-vascular and nervous system problems as a result of Ritalin use. Ritalin is generally prescribed to treat the condition the psych industry calls Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD). ADD diagnoses are becoming increasingly controversial as scientific evidence of the "disease" is nonexistent. This could be the first in a barrage of lawsuits against the pharmaceutical cash-cow known as Ritalin. This could also spell major trouble for the Department of Education which wholeheartedly endorses the use of Ritalin on children and even pays public schools $400 for every child diagnosed with ADD. ***ACTION TO TAKE*** You can do your part to help stop forced Ritalin use! * Call your Congressman and ask him to support and co-sponsor Congressman Bob Schaffer's House Resolution #459 to call for immediate Hearings on Ritalin use. Capitol Hill Switchboard (202) 225-3121. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: This is Julie -- Gun Control is RIGHT! (wrong!) (fwd) Date: 23 May 2000 09:10:23 PST On May 23, Radiotimk@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] This Is Julie, by Bill Kelly Published: 9/2/99 Hi, c'mon in. I need to show you something. This is Julie...... Yes, she is very pretty when she sleeps. Can you believe she worries about her weight? ..... I know. It's crazy. Don't worry about making noise. First, she sleeps like a log. Between being a full-time nursing student and working at a halfway home for people with disabilities, she stays very busy. Secondly, if we could wake her now, maybe she could stop... Well .. you'll see. No, don't worry. I'm okay. Well, you see. Right now, her phone line is being cut. This trailer actually belongs to her brother-in-law. He lived here as a bachelor. When he married her older sister, they moved to an apartment. They plan to build a house on this land someday, but .... well ... they might change their mind. Yeah, the trailer is pretty old. Her brother-in-law couldn't have gotten enough to make it worth selling. It wouldn't have rented for enough to make it worth the hassle of dealing with renters. When she finished her freshman year in the dorms, he offered it to her rent-free. Her dad built the deck in the back. He built it in sections back home and hauled it up here in his truck. He and her brother-in-law assembled it. It works pretty well for her. She's about twenty minutes from campus and fifteen minutes from work. She never had the time, money, or inclination to join a sorority. Even regular apartment life can have more distractions. You heard that? Yeah, so did I. Julie did too. See? She's stirring; opening her eyes. The guy who cut her phone lines just broke in the back door. It really didn't make that much noise. The doors on these trailers aren't very solid. The one bad thing about the deck is that it gave him a little more solid footing when he did it. He's walking into the living room pretty carefully. He's not really worried, he's just spent so much of his life sneaking around that he's always a little stealthy. Yep, her eyes are wide open now. She's not certain whether she heard something or whether she just had a dream. Yeah, her teeth are chattering a little. He sees the extension cord running from the socket to the lamp over her favorite chair. That's where she likes to sit when she reads. The lamp cord didn't reach any outlets from that corner. He's unplugging the lamp, but he decided just to jerk the cord from the wall. Yep, she heard that. She's picking up the phone, but there's no dial tone. He already took care of that. She sits up in bed. Unfortunately, her cell phone is in the kitchen with her purse. It might not matter. The real phone would have instantly told the police where she was, and they could have been here in ten minutes. With the cell phone, she would have to give the address. Speaking clearly when you're this terrified isn't easy. Maybe the police would get here and maybe they wouldn't. She wishes she had listened to her father. He wanted her to bring a gun. He taught her to shoot a couple of years ago, and she knows how to handle his old .38 pretty well. Still, she refused to bring a gun. You see - Julie's only 19, and the federal government has now made it a crime for 19-year-olds to have a gun. No, she realizes that if she kept quiet about it she'd probably never be caught or never prosecuted if she were caught. However, she believes in obeying the law, and she doesn't want to take a chance on having a criminal record. The guy walking down her hall with a knife in one hand and the extension cord in the other is 19 also. He can't legally own a gun either, but that wouldn't stop him. The only reason he doesn't have a gun is that he doesn't need one for what he has in mind. According to our government, Julie can have a gun in two years. Unfortunately, ..... no, I shouldn't say that. It isn't a matter of "fortune," "luck," "chance," or anything like that. This situation resulted from a deliberate decision by our government. What I was going to say was that Julie doesn't have two years. She has about forty horrible minutes. *********************************************************************** Please feel free to forward this to every one in the United States of America. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: NEWS - GUN RULE/CAMERAS (fwd) Date: 23 May 2000 09:11:56 PST On May 23, Graham, Brandi wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] CQ MONITOR NEWS BILL EASES GUN RULE FOR JUDGES, ALLOWS CAMERAS IN COURTROOMS By Eileen Simpson, CQ Staff Writer May 22, 2000 - The House on Monday passed by voice vote a bill that would allow cameras into federal courtrooms and permit federal judges to carry concealed weapons across state lines. The bill (HR 1752) makes a number of technical changes to the federal court system, as requested by the United States Judicial Conference. The Conference, which forms the policy-making body of the federal judiciary, periodically submits to Congress proposals aimed at improving the court system. The bill would allow cameras into courtrooms under certain conditions, including that both parties involved in a case do not object to their use. The provision would expire after three years and the Judicial Conference would have to create guidelines by which a judge would approve camera use. In addition, the bill would allow federal judges to carry concealed weapons across state lines, a privilege currently extended to federal law enforcement officials. The bill also would give magistrate judges the power to hold people in civil and criminal contempt of court and mete out their punishment, and eliminate the automatic jury exemption now granted to military personnel, police officers, firefighters and other public officials. A manager's amendment was offered to the bill that removed a provision on civil asset forfeiture. The removed language would have allowed the Administrative Office of the United States Courts to be reimbursed for expenses incurred related to forfeiture cases out of funds in the Department of Justice's (DOJ's) Assets Forfeiture Fund and the Treasury Forfeiture Fund. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that implementing HR 1752 would cost $186 million between the years 2000-2004. Source: CQ Monitor News Round-the-clock coverage of news from Capitol Hill. (c)2000 Congressional Quarterly Inc. All Rights Reserved. Copyright 1983-2000 Congressional Quarterly Inc. All Rights Reserved. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: [SonsofLiberty] Fwd: Church That Opposed Clinton Doesn't Get Tax-Exempt S... (fwd) Date: 23 May 2000 12:54:55 PST On May 23, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] The govt revokes the tax exempt status of a church because it opposes abortion (they aren't allowed to complain about govt officials who support abortion) but at the same time, another organization, the Million Mom March is granted tax exempt status even though it was established by the govt to lobby Congress to violate the Bill of Rights. Heck with the uneven application of authority, is sounds like conspiracy to commit a crime to me. Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ << Church That Opposed Clinton Doesn't Get Tax-Exempt Status Back http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGIJC96868C.html By Richard Carelli Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - The Internal Revenue Service was justified in revoking the tax-exempt status of a small New York church that opposed President Clinton's 1992 candidacy, a federal appeals court ruled Friday. The unanimous ruling said the revocation - history's first stripping of a church's tax exemption for political activity - "neither violated the Constitution nor exceeded the IRS' statutory authority." Lawyers for the Church at Pierce Creek, in the Binghamton, N.Y., area, had argued that the tax agency had exceeded its authority, violated the church's free-speech rights and engaged in selective prosecution. "These objections are without merit," a three-judge panel of the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia concluded. Federal tax law exempts churches and other charitable organizations from taxation provided they do not engage in certain activities, including any political campaign on behalf of or in opposition to any candidate for public office. The Rev. Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said the ruling "slams the door on mixing religion and partisan politics." "This is a staggering defeat for Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others who want to convert America's churches into a partisan political machine," Lynn said. "In light of this ruling, pastors who allow partisan politicking in the sanctuary are jeopardizing their church's tax exemption." It was the Friday before Election Day in 1992 when the Church at Pierce Creek and its pastor, Daniel J. Little, bought a full-page advertisement in two newspapers urging voters to reject Democratic presidential nominee Bill Clinton because of his positions on abortion, homosexuality and the distribution of condoms in public schools. The "Christians Beware" ad appeared in USA Today and The Washington Times. Americans United for Separation of Church and State subsequently filed a complaint with the federal tax agency. After an investigation, the IRS revoked the church's tax-exempt status in 1995, action held in abeyance during the legal fight. A federal judge upheld the revocation last year, and Friday's decision agreed with his reasoning. The appeals court's decision focused most closely on the church's free-speech claims, but rejected them as exaggerated. "The church asserts first, that a revocation would threaten its existence ... that a loss of its tax-exempt status will not only make its members reluctant to contribute the funds essential to its survival but may obligate the church itself to pay taxes," Judge James Buckley wrote for the panel. "In actual fact, even this burden is overstated ... As the IRS confirmed in oral argument, if the church does not intervene in future political campaigns it may hold itself out as a (tax-exempt) organization and receive all the benefits of that status," he said. Buckley's opinion also noted that churches can form separate, non-exempt entities "for the promotion of social welfare," and that those organizations can form political action committees to participate in campaigns. The New York church is represented by the Robertson-founded American Center for Law and Justice. "While we are disappointed with the ... case involving the Church at Pierce Creek, we are encouraged that this court appears to provide a blueprint for churches to express their beliefs in a political context," ACLJ chief counsel Jay Sekulow said. "This is an important development in the area of protecting the First Amendment rights." Sekulow said his group had not yet decided whether it will appeal the case to the Supreme Court. The case is Branch Ministries vs. Rossotti, 99-5097. --- On the Net: For the ruling: http://www.uscourts.gov/links.html and click on D.C. Circuit. AP-ES-05-12-00 1545EDT ====================================================================== Re: Church That Opposed Clinton Doesn't Get Tax-Exempt Status Back From The Associa http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGIJC96868C.html We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, Timothy 1:9 It is not a political issue..it is religious issues brought forth into reality as mentioned in Isaiah, Daniel and Revelation. Therefore, it is our Right to do our ministerial duties as we are 'called' forth into the ministry!! It is not any political person. ...it is good against evil... There is much evil....and we will NOT delete any part of the Holy Bible to accommodate any of it...because it is written that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that cometh out of his mouth. If we say nothing...we will be guilty.... If we say what the Scriptures say...we are earthly guilty. It's about time 'the Church' comes out of the closests and turns off their loud MC music and their social parties...and gets back to the Scriptures! So what difference does it make? Here on earth is temperal...in heaven it's eternal! It is better to obey God rather than man! >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Federal judges CCW (fwd) Date: 24 May 2000 08:32:34 PST Might even be worth sending a copy of their reply to vote-smart.org..... On May 24, GKStemple@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] In a message dated 5/23/2000 2:52:43 PM Central Daylight Time, stevechr@ptd.net writes: << voice vote >> Means our Congrescritters cast a "Yea" or "Nay" that was NOT recorded. There is no official record of each 'critters vote. Phone and write (preferably in longhand by snail-mail) and ask them how they voted. The legislation, HR 1752, makes other changes to the Federal Court system as well. The all-states CCW provision for federal judges was framed as giving federal judges "a privilege currently extended to federal law enforcement officials." It appears that a majority in the House of Representatives agree in principal that someone who may be in danger of criminal attack should be able to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the United States in order to properly defend themselves. Our task is to get them to realize that criminals attack common citizens far more often than they attack federal judges, and that all-states CCW should be a privilege extended to all honest citizens. Best of Luck to us in our crusade. Gary [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: A Message from JJ Johnson//READ ME (fwd) Date: 26 May 2000 08:44:31 PST On May 26, Lynn wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Please forward to all NV, ID, MT, and other NW contacts. A Message from SierraTimes.com news to you folks in the Great Northwest We have a problem that we think you might be able to help us with. We would like to ask if you will consider working with us in order to get certain types of news out to the public. The reason we are asking is this: The primary news site covering the Elko/Jarbrige stand-off is inaccessible to us for certain types of news that our readers depend on us for. For example: We have been covering the Jarbridge situation, which our readers have been following closely, as per our letters to the editor, etc. Lately, we have been unable to get the news about that situation due to the inaccessibility of your news because of certain administrative changes that have been made, and our readers are demanding to know why. Let me put it bluntly, folks: On July 4th, we're about to take on the federal government in a land rights stand-off. And the only word the rest of the nation hears is what the AP, CNN and Fox News tells them. We can change that. SierraTimes.com will also be there. Our publication targets the western and southern audiences. We cover topics that have to do with free speech, land rights, agriculture, gun rights, and educational issues, among other topics. We are hoping to build a rapport with small town newspapers nationwide in an effort to get news out to the public that is normally ignored by the "mainstream" news agencies. It would be mutually beneficial to us and small town newspapers to work together getting out the "underdog" news. Some of you may know who we are. We've been around for about 4 months, and we broke the first reports about the shovel bridage. http://www.SierraTimes.com/arjj013100.htm We need your help. What's going on up there that no one's hearing about? Got news? send it to: news@sierraTimes.com Got an opinion: send it to: editorials@SierraTimes.com We're already reaching the West and Dixie. Whatever you send can reach thousands daily. You can view our publication at http://www.SierraTimes.com We want to be the voice of the Sagebrush Rebellion. Let's win the West back together. J.J. Johnson - Editor & Chief SierraTimes.com An Internet Publication for Real Americans ===== Gun Owners choose... Best pro gun news... Silver based currency... News from out west... Patriot Mary Kay Lady... America's Voice... [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Pistol Packing Granny (fwd) Date: 26 May 2000 08:51:26 PST On May 25, Andy Waltman wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Shopper cuts holdup short In her purse, the woman hid a gun - just the thing to stop a man threatening Wal-Mart employees. By JAMIE MALERNEE © St. Petersburg Times, published May 24, 2000 SPRING HILL -- Sandra Suter was standing in the check-out line at Wal-Mart on Monday when she saw several store employees wrestling with a man. "Drop the knife! Drop the knife!" one of the employees yelled at the man, who authorities say was trying to steal a VCR. The man, identified as Willie J. Redding, dropped the appliance, pulled a small blade and lunged, cutting two employees, a Hernando County sheriff's report said. Suter, a 53-year-old grandmother of two, reacted. Within seconds, she rushed to the scuffle. "I have a concealed weapons permit," she announced as she whipped out the .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun she keeps in her purse. "Either drop the knife, or I'll shoot you," she said as she held the weapon to the man's face. After a few tense moments, during which Suter repeated her threat, Redding dropped the knife and surrendered to store security. Redding of 262 A St., Brooksville, now faces a charge of armed robbery and two counts of battery. Authorities say the 50-year-old Brooksville man walked into the Spring Hill store with an empty VCR box, said he wanted to make an exchange and then tried to leave with a new VCR. Redding, who has previous convictions for selling drugs and dealing in stolen property, was taken to the Hernando County Jail. He was released Tuesday on $3,000 bond. After the arrest, several employees, who did not need treatment for minor cuts, and a Hernando County sheriff's deputy thanked Suter for her decisive action. Suter's husband and grown children are calling her a hero. But the 5-foot-3 homemaker just laughs at the label. "I just did what I thought was right," she said. "It was the first time I've ever had to pull my gun other than at the firing range. I don't know what made me do it." Suter said she has carried the gun in a special pouch in her purse since March. Her son urged her to get it, saying she needed protection during long drives to visit out-of-state relatives. Suter picked the chrome handgun because it was "pretty." She would have used it Monday if necessary. "I would have, had I had a clear shot," she said. Suter is not a member of the National Rifle Association and said she does not get involved in "any of that politics." But she strongly supports Americans' right to bear arms. She and her family often gather at a Lakeland shooting range to practice. "It's brought our family closer together," she said. She and her husband keep child safety locks on their guns and have instructed their grandchildren, ages 4 and 2, not to touch them, she said. Although authorities said they were relieved no one was hurt, spokesmen for the Hernando County Sheriff's Office and Wal-Mart advise civilians not to get involved in such situations. "We want to keep our stores a pleasant place to shop, so we would never encourage our customers to arm themselves," said Wal-Mart spokesman Tom Williams. "In terms of how she handled herself, she acted responsibly," said sheriff's spokeswoman Deanna Dammer. "But next time the situation might not end so well." Shopper Lorinda Smith, who was in the candy aisle during the confrontation, said Tuesday that she was more frightened by Suter's gun then the man's knife. "That scared the c--- out of me, that someone could have a gun in the store," said Smith of Hernando Beach. "This one lady was in there with her children and when she saw (the gun) she was like, "Get on the ground! Get on the ground!' If I was there with my kids, I would have had a heart attack." NRA officials did not return phone calls. Kim Mariani, spokeswoman for Handgun Control Inc., said Suter's actions, while brave, could have hurt someone. "God forbid something went wrong," Mariani said. "It just escalates the situation, and a lot of times it's unnecessary." [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: 'The new blacklisters,' 5-25-00 (fwd) Date: 26 May 2000 08:46:17 PST On May 25, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 4:31 PM THE NEW BLACKLISTERS By Jeff Jacoby The Boston Globe May 25, 2000 You can hear arguments for and against same-sex marriage. You can hear arguments for and against gays in the military. You can hear arguments for and against taking the Bible's condemnation of homosexuality literally. Should openly gay scoutmasters be allowed in the Boy Scouts? Should "gay pride" be celebrated with flamboyant parades? Should churches ordain gay and lesbian clergy? You can hear arguments for and against each proposition. Or can you? Increasingly, gay activists are insisting that you *not* be allowed to hear the arguments for and against. Instead of trying to refute opinions they don't share, the new strategy is to label them "hateful" or "dangerous" and to silence the people making them. The campaign to kill the "Dr. Laura" TV show before it debuts this fall is an alarming case in point. Laura Schlessinger's views are anathema to many. A moral traditionalist, she makes it clear that she disapproves of homosexuality. It is a form of "deviant sexual behavior," she says -- the result of a "biological error" that impedes gays and lesbians from being attracted to the opposite sex. Homosexuality is hardly the only practice Schlessinger disapproves of, as anyone who listens to her knows. She opposes premarital sex, abortion, single motherhood, serial marriage, people who cheat on their spouses, working parents who put their children in day care, and most divorce. She is rigid and censorious and blunt. She is also stunningly popular, far and away the most successful woman in radio history and the author of four bestselling books. In the marketplace of ideas, she has found many takers. Not surprisingly, she also has many detractors, who denounce her views as "homophobia" and bigotry. But rather than debate those views, her opponents aim to suppress them. They are aggressively lobbying Paramount to cancel "Dr. Laura," flooding TV stations that have signed up to carry it with letters and calls of protest, and putting pressure on advertisers to shun not only the TV show but the radio program as well. Last week, Proctor & Gamble yielded to the pressure, dropping its plan to sponsor the new program. A few days earlier, United Airlines announced it would no longer run ads for Schlessinger's radio show in its in-flight magazine. Once upon a time, activists on the left hated blacklists and loved free speech. They embraced the classic position attributed to Voltaire: I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Gay-rights advocates especially appealed for tolerance. Live and let live, they said. To each his own. Be open-minded. No more. "Tolerance" now means no tolerance for speakers whose opinions on homosexuality are politically incorrect. We don't like what Dr. Laura says; therefore, she may not say it. It isn't only Dr. Laura. On a growing number of college campuses, evangelical student groups are being punished for adhering to traditional Christian views on homosexuality. When the Christian Fellowship at Tufts University would not allow a lesbian member to run for a leadership post -- not because of her sexual orientation, but because she rejected the group's belief that homosexual activity is wrong -- it was stripped of its status as a legitimate campus organization. That meant it lost its student government funding and the right to use "Tufts" in its name, and was barred from communicating through university channels. In short, one administrator reportedly told the group, "on the Tufts campus, you do not exist." The ruling was later overturned on due process grounds, but it may be reimposed in the fall. Meanwhile, there has been no reprieve for the Christian fellowship at Grinnell College in Iowa, which was "derecognized" in 1997. Similar campaigns to penalize evangelicals are underway at Middlebury College in Vermont, Whitman College in Washington, and Ball State University in Indiana. No doubt more are in the works. Those leading the assault on the Christian groups claim they simply want to stop discrimination against gays. But the religious fellowships *don't* discriminate against gays; they welcome members of any sexual identity. The groups do, however, insist on the right to decide for themselves what they believe, and that is what the campus inquisitors cannot abide. Like the protesters trying to get the plug pulled on Dr. Laura, they demand outward ideological conformity. No one may dissent from their particular gay agenda, and those who do must be stifled. As this intolerant "tolerance" spreads, so does the chill it generates. Last month, The New York Times reported on three religious scholars -- "respected Protestant theologians" and "thoughtful conservatives" all -- who had been invited to join a televised discussion of same-sex marriage and the ordination of gay ministers. Each refused, afraid of being vilified as "anti-gay and anti-compassion" if he deviated from the liberal line. None of the three would even allow the Times to quote him by name. One said he worried about family members who "had felt the 'heat' for his previous public statements." Intimidation, censorship, blacklisting, "derecognition" -- these are the coward's ways to win an argument. Those who believe in gay rights used to also believe in reason, persuasion, and the free exchange of ideas. What happened? (Jeff Jacoby is a columnist for The Boston Globe. His e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com) [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: MAJOR CHANGES NEEDED (fwd) Date: 26 May 2000 08:48:45 PST On May 25, Pep Stofen wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] MAJOR CHANGE NEEDED - Changes in government are not that difficult to come by. The few that = are needed would then eliminate most of the other changes that are, in = reality, brought about by the few. WHY NOT ACCENTUATE THE POSITIVE? The Federal Reserve System (FED), owned and operated by a private = banking corporation, contrary to our Constitution, and has deprived the = American people of wealth and property by theft, greed and dishonesty = from day one! WHY? Because the evil system they devised is extremely = profitable, that made the stockholders of the FED obscenely wealthy. = They stole this profit, from the American people, that should have gone = into the United States Treasury to run our country and shows up as the = federal debt! I have the video to prove it. (Example - In 1993, the = Bureau of the Treasury was reimbursed 316 million for providing 102 = billion to the FED when the U.S. Treasury printed 8.5 billions of = Federal Reserve Notes.) Therefore, would it not be sensible to keep this system, pay off the = stockholders, and return control of the monetary system, and the = profits, to the U.S. Treasury? We would then have "United States Notes", = instead of "Federal Reserve Notes"! All else would remain the same. Rep. Ron Paul (R-14-TX) has a plan designed to do exactly that, and has = presented it to the Committee on Banking and Financial Services. Contact your Congressman and Senators. Tell them that this bill to make = these changes is in the Committee, and it must be taken out of the = Committee for immediate action. This is a peaceful solution. If not this peaceful way, there could be = great problems in the near future according to the video I have.=20 Mr. Alex Jones, host of a media program in Texas that made the video, = states The Legislative The Executive and The Judicial branches of our = government want to turn this over to the UN. ALL FOR THE NEW WORLD = ORDERS! Pep=20 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: A wonderful tribute to a grunt's grunt this Memorial Day... (fwd) Date: 26 May 2000 14:30:38 PST On May 26, bg wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Thanks to Spiker for passing this on... Mel Young READER'S DIGEST, May, 1989 "I didn't learn about leadership and the strength of character it requires from an Ivy League graduate course. I learned by watching one tall captain with proud bearing and penetrating eyes." THE COURAGE OF SAM BIRD By B. T. Collins I met Capt. Samuel R. Bird on a dusty road near An Khe, South Vietnam, one hot July day in 1966. I was an artillery forward observer with Bravo Company, 2nd/12th Cavalry, 1st Cavalry Division, and I looked it. I was filthy, sweaty, and jaded by war, and I thought "Oh, brother, get a load of this". Dressed in crisply starched fatigues, Captain Bird was what we called "squared away" - ramrod straight, eyes on the horizon. Hell, you could still see the shine on his boot tips beneath the road dust. After graduation from Officer Candidate School, I had sought adventure by volunteering for Vietnam. But by that hot and dangerous July, I was overdosed on "adventure," keenly interested in survival and very fond of large rocks and deep holes. Bird was my fourth company commander, and my expectations were somewhat cynical when he called all his officers and sergeants together. "I understand this company has been in Vietnam almost a year and has never had a party," he said. Now we officers and sergeants had our little clubs to which we repaired. So we stole bewildered looks at one another, cleared our throats and wondered what this wiry newcomer was talking about. "The men are going to have a party," he announced, "and they're not going to pay for it. Do I make myself clear?" A party for the "grunts" was the first order of business! Sam Bird had indeed made himself clear. We all chipped in to get food and beer for about 160 men. The troops were surprised almost to the point of suspicion - who, after all, had ever done anything for them? But that little beer and bull session was exactly what those war-weary men needed. Its effect on morale was profound. I began to watch our new captain more closely. Bird and I were the same age, 26, but eons apart in everything else. He was from the sunny heartland of Kansas, I from the suburbs of New York City. He prayed every day and was close to his God. My faith had evaporated somewhere this side of altar boy. I was a college dropout who had wandered into the Army with the words "discipline problem" close on my heels. He had graduated from The Citadel, South Carolina's proud old military school. If ever a man looked like a leader, it was Sam Bird. He was tall and lean,with penetrating blue eyes. But the tedium and terror of a combat zone take far sterner qualities than mere appearance. Our outfit was helicoptered to a mountain outpost one day for the thankless task of preparing a position for others to occupy. We dug trenches, filled sandbags, strung wire under a blistering sun. It was hard work, and Sam was everywhere, pitching in with the men. A colonel who was supposed to oversee the operation remained at a shelter, doing paper work. Sam looked at what his troops had accomplished, then, red-faced, strode over to the colonel's sanctuary. We couldn't hear what he was saying to his superior, but we had the unmistakable sense that Sam was uncoiling a bit. The colonel suddenly found time to inspect the fortifications and thank the men for a job well done. Another day, this time on the front lines after weeks of awful show, we were given something called "coffee cake" that had the look and texture of asphalt paving. Furious, Sam got on the radio phone to headquarters. He reached the colonel and said, "Sir, you and the supply officer need to come out here and taste the food, because this rifle company is not taking one step further." "Not a good way to move up in the Army," I thought. But the colonel came out, and the food improved from that moment. Such incidents were not lost on the men of Bravo Company. During the monsoon season we had to occupy a landing zone. The torrential, wind-driven rains had been falling for weeks. Like everyone else I sat under my poncho in a stupor, wondering how much of the wetness was rainwater and how much was sweat. Nobody cared that the position was becoming flooded. We had all just crawled inside ourselves. Suddenly I saw Sam, Mr. Spit and Polish, with nothing on but his olive-drab undershorts and his boots. He was digging a drainage ditch down the center of the camp. He didn't say anything, just dug away, mud spattering his chest, steam rising from his back and shoulders. Slowly and sheepishly we emerged from under our ponchos, and shovels in hand, we began helping "the old man" get the ditch dug. We got the camp tolerably dried out and with that one simple act transformed our morale. Sam deeply loved the U.S. Army and traditions. Few of the men knew it, but he had been in charge of a special honors unit of the Old Guard, which serves as the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Arlington National Cemetery and participates in the Army's most solemn ceremonies. He was the kind of guy whose eyes would mist during the singing of the National Anthem. Sam figured patriotism was just a natural part of being an American. But he knew that morale was a function not so much of inspiration as of good boots, dry socks, extra ammo and hot meals. Sam's philosophy was to put his troops first. On that foundation he built respect a brick at a time. His men ate first; he ate last. Instead of merely learning their names, he made it a point to know the men. A lot of the soldiers were high-school dropouts and would-be tough guys just a few years younger than himself. Some were scared, and a few were still in partial shock at being in a shooting war. Sam patiently worked on their pride and self-confidence. Yet there was never any doubt who was in charge. I had been around enough to know what a delicate accomplishment that was. Half in wonder, an officer once told me, "Sam can dress a man down till his ears burn, and the next minute that same guy is eager to follow him into hell." But he never chewed out a man in front of his subordinates. Sam wouldn't ask his men to do anything he wasn't willing to do himself. He dug his own foxholes. He never gave lectures on appearance, but even at God-forsaken outposts in the Central Highlands, he would set aside a few ounces of water from his canteen to shave. His uniform, even if it was jungle fatigues, would be as clean and neat as he could make it. Soon all of Bravo Company had a reputation for looking sharp. One sultry and miserable day on a dirt road at the base camp, Sam gathered the men together and began talking about how tough the infantryman's job is, how proud he was of them, how they should always look out for each other. He took out a bunch of Combat Infantryman's Badges, signifying that a soldier has paid his dues under fire, and he presented one to each of the men. There wasn't a soldier there who would have traded that moment on the road for some parade-ground ceremony. That was the way Sam Bird taught me leadership. He packed a lot of lessons into the six months we were together. Put the troops first. Know that morale often depends on small things. Respect every person's dignity. Always be ready to fight for your people. Lead by example. Reward performance. But Sam had another lesson to teach, one that would take long and painful years, a lesson in courage. I left Bravo Company in December 1966 to return to the States for a month before joining a Special Forces unit. Being a big, tough paratrooper, I didn't tell Sam what his example had meant to me. But I made a point of visiting his parents and sister in Wichita, Kan., just before Christmas to tell them how much he'd affected my life, and how his troops would walk off a cliff for him. His family was relieved when I told them that his tour of combat was almost over and he'd be moving to a safe job in the rear. Two months later, in a thatched hut in the Mekong Delta, I got a letter from Sam's sister, saying that he had conned his commanding officer into letting him stay an extra month with his beloved Bravo Company. On his last day, January 27, 1967 - his 27th birthday - the men had secretly planned a party, even arranging to have a cake flown in. They were going to "pay back the old man." But orders came down for Bravo to lead an airborne assault on a North Vietnamese regimental headquarters. Sam's helicopter was about to touch down at the attack point when it was ripped by enemy fire. Slugs shattered his left ankle and right leg. Another struck the left side of his head, carrying off almost a quarter of his skull. His executive officer, Lt. Dean Parker, scooped Sam's brains back into the gaping wound. Reading the letter, I felt as if I'd been kicked in the stomach. I began querying every hospital in Vietnam to find out if Sam was still alive. But in June, before I could discover his fate, I was in a fire fight in an enemy-controlled zone. I had thrown four grenades. The fifth one exploded in my hand. I lost an arm and a leg. Nearly a year later, in March 1968, I finally caught up with Sam. I was just getting the hang of walking with an artificial leg when I visited him at the VA Medical Center in Memphis, Tenn. Seeing him, I had to fight back the tears. The wiry, smiling soldier's soldier was blind in the left eye and partially so in the right. Surgeons had removed metal shards and damaged tissue from deep within his brain, and he had been left with a marked depression on the left side of his head. The circles under his eyes told of sleepless hours and great pain. The old clear voice of command was slower now, labored and with an odd, high pitch. I saw his brow knit as he looked through his one good eye, trying to remember. He recognized me, but believed I had served with him in Korea, his first tour of duty. Slowly, Sam rebuilt his ability to converse. But while he could recall things from long ago, he couldn't remember what he had eaten for breakfast. Headaches came on him like terrible firestorms. There was pain, too, in his legs. He had only partial use of one arm, with which he'd raise himself in front of the mirror to brush his teeth and shave. He had the support of a wonderful family, and once he was home in Wichita, his sister brought his old school sweetheart, Annette Blazier, to see him. A courtship began, and in 1972 they were married. They built a house like Sam had dreamed of - red brick, with a flag-pole out front. He had developed the habit of addressing God as "Sir" and spoke to him often. He never asked to be healed. At every table grace, he thanked God for sending him Annette and for "making it possible for me to live at home in a free country." In 1976, Sam and Annette traveled to The Citadel for his 15th class reunion. World War II hero Gen. Mark Clark, the school's president emeritus, asked about his wounds and said, "On behalf of your country, I want to thank you for all you did." With pride, Sam answered "Sir, it was the least I could do." Later Annette chided him gently for understating the case. After all, he had sacrificed his health and career in Vietnam. Sam gave her an incredulous look. "I had friends who didn't come back," he said. "I'm enjoying the freedoms they died for." I visited Sam in Wichita and phoned him regularly. You would not have guessed that he lived with pain every day. Once, speaking of me to his sister, he said, "I should never complain about the pain in my leg, because B.T. doesn't have a leg." I'd seen a lot of men with lesser wounds reduced to anger and self-pity. Never a hint of that passed Sam's lips, though I knew that, every waking moment, he was fighting to live. On October 18, 1984, after 17 years, Sam's body couldn't take any more. When we received the news of his death, a number of us from Bravo Company flew to Wichita, where Sam was to be buried with his forebears. The day before the burial, his old exec, Dean Parker, and I went to the funeral home to make sure everything was in order. As Dean straightened the brass on Sam's uniform, I held my captain's hand and looked into his face, a face no longer filled with pain. I thought about how unashamed Sam always was to express his love for his country, how sunny and unaffected He was in his devotion to his men. I ached that I had never told him what a fine soldier and man he was. But in my deep sadness I felt a glow of pride for having served with him, and for having learned the lessons of leadership that would serve me all my life. That is why I am telling you about Samuel R. Bird and these things that happened so long ago. Chances are, you have seen Sam Bird. He was the tall officer in charge of the casket detail at the funeral of President John F. Kennedy. Historian William Manchester described him as "a lean, sinewy Kansan, the kind of American youth whom Congressmen dutifully praise each Fourth of July and whose existence many, grown jaded by years on the Hill, secretly doubt." There can be no doubt about Sam, about who he was, how he lived and how he led. We buried him that fall afternoon, as they say, "with honors." But as I walked from that grave, I knew I was the honored one, for having known him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Note: At the time that this article was written, Mr. B.T. Collins had recovered from severe war wounds to become the highly acclaimed director of the California Conservation Corps and later chief of staff to the governor of California. He later became California's deputy state treasurer. He is now deceased. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Temple Beth El reminder (fwd) Date: 26 May 2000 14:32:17 PST On May 26, stevechr@ptd.net wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] What follows is my orginal e-mail from 21 April. The RSVP for this event is rapidly approaching. Please call with your RSVP before 6 June. - - - - - - - - - - Temple Beth El in Allentown, PA is a hotbed of anti-gun action. They have been distributing a flyer the text of which follows: Temple Beth El Social Action Committee presents Judge Robert Steinberg speaking on Our Community and Gun Control Sunday, June 11, 2000 10:00 a.m. Brunch and Program (There is no charge for the brunch, but please RSVP to the Temple office at 610-435-3521 by June 6.) | | | | | g r a p h i c | | | | | THE TIME FOR ACTION IS NOW < end text of flyer > The graphic is a political cartoon by Steve Breen of the Asbury Park Press which shows the line of children walking hand in hand with the cops from the Jewish Day Care Center shooting in California some months ago with a text ballon over one of the kids saying "Where are we going?" and the reply from one of the cops "To our congressman's office to ask what he's doing about gun control." It would be nice to have some pro-RKBA people sign up for this event to counter the anti-gun message like we did with Professor Hardy's presentation at Moravian College not so long ago. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: McGehee's News & Comment - May 29, 2000 (fwd) Date: 27 May 2000 10:52:31 PST On May 27, mcgeheezone.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] McGEHEE'S NEWS & COMMENT (c) 2000 KEVIN McGEHEE Thomas Crossroads, GA news&comment@mcgeheezone.com http://www.mcgeheezone.com/ Permission granted to anyone wishing to forward, redistribute, or broadcast this article WITH FULL ATTRIBUTION. ================================================================ ALL I EVER NEEDED TO KNOW I LEARNED FROM COWBOYS Work ain't gonna do itself. Ride for the brand. The better you are with a gun, the fewer people you have to shoot. Don't hunt trouble. Don't count on trouble never huntin' you. Cows is stupid. If it ain't broke, it don't hurt. It don't matter how she dresses or what she does for a livin' -- she's a lady and you durn well better treat her like one. Life ain't like the movies: not everyone in a white hat is a good guy. Be nice to young 'uns -- you was one once. It ain't the hat, it ain't the boots, and it ain't the shiny belt buckle. It's what's inside. If you're usin' your fists, you're only funnin'. Cows is *really* stupid! Wipin' the sweatband of your hat is a good excuse to stop an' take in the scenery. It takes a lot of hands to make a roundup. When somethin' goes wrong, set back an' have yerself a good, relaxin' cuss -- then fix it. Ignore that dude on the billboard sign. Real cowboys roll their own. Don't mess with another man's gal, gun or hoss. Dyin' with yer boots on is still dyin'. Watch your step around brandin' irons. When nature calls, always scout for rattlers before you unbuckle. Before you take a drink from that creek, scout upstream. I mean cows is really, *really*, REALLY stupid!!! Next to a hoss, a dog is a man's best friend. Beans are good eatin' on the trail, but not in the bunkhouse. When you tell your saddle pal that the coyotes sing better'n he does, smile. Cowboys don't cry, they just get sweat in their eyes. That which doesn't kill me, better hunt its hole before I heal up. -30- May 29, 2000 ================================================================ The views expressed herein are entirely those of the author(s), and do not reflect those of any person or group with whom the author(s) may be affiliated, unless explicitly labelled as doing so. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Reform Party National Convention] (fwd) Date: 27 May 2000 11:41:40 PST On May 27, Bill Haase wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] At least someone is getting it together! >From Johnny in HI, Keep the faith, Mary Clare (MC) ------------> >Aloha, In regards to 3rd Party's. We have done that here in Hawaii. WE have >joined an alliance. Reform, Liberterians,Natural Law,Greens,and Aloha Aina. >We are fielding 12 candidates between us.We don't agree on everything,but we >are coming together on one thing,Republicans and Democrats got to go!!!!! > >Johnny Jackson >Chair >REFORM PARTYof HAWAII > > "We are always equal to what we undertake with resolution .It is part of the American character to consider nothing as desperate; to surmount every difficulty by resolution and contrivance. Remote from all other aid, we are obliged to invent and to execute; to find means within ourselves and not to lean on others.." Thomas Jefferson in a letter to his daughter. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: The Government Is Dead! Date: 27 May 2000 15:52:46 PST Not long ago many of us started adding, "RKBA", to our .sigs to show support for the 2nd Amendment, and to get folks that weren't hip to start up a conversation about it. I have here, a new one that I've added to mine. Some of you seem to feel that the Government is dead to the concerns of the Citizens, or that we might soon be seeing the demize of our Republic. Maybe both. These are certainly possible, if not fact. It seems to me that it might be good to plant the idea that in the event that our current Government collapses, that the Constitution should survive it in toto. Further, that whatever Government is formed thereafter, darned well better see to it that it subscribes to, supports, adheres to, and defends the Constitution. If you come up with something better, fine, post it, but for the time being, I hereby place the following statement in the Public Domain, for use towards the above mentioned end, for use in .sigs, or wherever else might seem suitable. Pass it along. The Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- The Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: The Government Is Dead! Date: 27 May 2000 16:56:37 -0700 Yes. Most revolutions turn out very badly because the new guys are just as stupid about the possible forms of successful gov as the old guys. We can promise a successful revolution. I like the sig. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 4:53 PM > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: The Government Is Dead! > > > Not long ago many of us started adding, "RKBA", to our .sigs to > show support > for the 2nd Amendment, and to get folks that weren't hip to start up a > conversation about it. I have here, a new one that I've added to mine. > > Some of you seem to feel that the Government is dead to the > concerns of the > Citizens, or that we might soon be seeing the demize of our Republic. > Maybe both. These are certainly possible, if not fact. It seems > to me that > it might be good to plant the idea that in the event that our current > Government collapses, that the Constitution should survive it in toto. > Further, that whatever Government is formed thereafter, darned well better > see to it that it subscribes to, supports, adheres to, and defends the > Constitution. If you come up with something better, fine, post > it, but for > the time being, I hereby place the following statement in the > Public Domain, > for use towards the above mentioned end, for use in .sigs, or > wherever else > might seem suitable. Pass it along. > > > The Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > The Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RE: The Government Is Dead! Date: 27 May 2000 18:35:44 PST Thanks. I did make a minor change, though, which I think reflects my purpose, plus reality, a little better. See below. On May 27, Lew Glendenning wrote: >Yes. Most revolutions turn out very badly because the new guys are just as >stupid about the possible forms of successful gov as the old guys. > >We can promise a successful revolution. > >I like the sig. > >Lew > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance >> Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2000 4:53 PM >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: The Government Is Dead! >> >> >> Not long ago many of us started adding, "RKBA", to our .sigs to >> show support >> for the 2nd Amendment, and to get folks that weren't hip to start up a >> conversation about it. I have here, a new one that I've added to mine. >> >> Some of you seem to feel that the Government is dead to the >> concerns of the >> Citizens, or that we might soon be seeing the demize of our Republic. >> Maybe both. These are certainly possible, if not fact. It seems >> to me that >> it might be good to plant the idea that in the event that our current >> Government collapses, that the Constitution should survive it in toto. >> Further, that whatever Government is formed thereafter, darned well better >> see to it that it subscribes to, supports, adheres to, and defends the >> Constitution. If you come up with something better, fine, post >> it, but for >> the time being, I hereby place the following statement in the >> Public Domain, >> for use towards the above mentioned end, for use in .sigs, or >> wherever else >> might seem suitable. Pass it along. >> >> >> Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! >> -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Toll Free Numbers for Congress (fwd) Date: 28 May 2000 10:54:14 PST Just a little reminder..... On May 28, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] CALL YOUR SENATOR or CONGRESSMAN 888-449-3511 800-972-3524 877-722-7494 800-456-1414 CAPITOL SWITCHBOARD: (Toll Call) 1-202-224-3121 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Canada Massive Civil Disobedience (fwd) Date: 28 May 2000 22:32:41 PST Well, three cheers for the Canucks, they're finally acting like they've got a pair. On May 29, RJK.Sr. wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Canada Massive Civil Disobedience Publication: Peterborough Examiner By-line: Gary Ball Column: "Slow gun registration panicking Ottawa" Excerpt from Column: It seems that Ottawa has realized, way to late, that it may be facing massive civil disobedience over firearms registration. Canada and the United States, learned sad lessons about bad laws during Prohibition. Is Ottawa worried about the same sort of situation with firearms. Is that what the panic's about? Bruce Hutton, a former Mountie from Rocky Mountain House, Alberta, heads the Law-Abiding Firearms Association (LUFA), which he says has 16,000 members across Canada. Two LUFA meetings in Ontario that I'm aware of drew about 400 gun owners, many willing to sign up at $20 a head. There were about 300 at a Sudbury meeting and about 100 in Apsley, north of Peterborough. Hutton and LUFA say, in a published plan, that they are advocating non-registration, non- compliance, civil disobedience. "When the first member of LUFA is arrested or charged, we will appoint his legal counsel. Then 10 or 20 or 30,000 of us will go into RCMP detachments across this country and tell them we have unregistered firearms without a licence," LUFA's website (www.lufa.ca) says. "This is an indictable offence so they will have to investigate. The RCMP doesn't have the manpower to handle it and the court system is already plugged. They will not be able to handle the load. We will also ask for legal aid as we are not financially capable of paying our lawyers' fees. We can tie the courts up forever." Yes, indeed, there's a whiff of panic in the air around the Department of Justice and the Canadian Firearms Centre. Gary Ball is a local award winning outdoors writer His e-mail address is: gball@kawartha.com The Peterborough Examiner Address Mailing Address 730 The Kingsway Peterborough, ON P. O. Box 3890 Peterborough, ON K9J 8L4 Phone: (705) 745-4641 Fax: (705) 743-4581 E-Mail: letters@ptbo.igs.n [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: CIA TWA VIDEO (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 09:20:49 PST On May 29, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] We always knew that the CIA cartoon video was nothing but an effort to discredit all the eyewitnesses who saw a streak of light, but appendix FF to the NTSB's eyewitness reports proves it. May 26, 2000 OFFICIAL LIES ON TWA 800 EXPOSED by Reed Irvine The recently released FBI reports of their interviews of eyewitnesses to the downing of TWA Flight 800 contain enough dynamite to blow the lid off the FBI-NTSB-CIA-DOD cover-up of the cause of the crash of TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996. The FBI wouldnt even let the NTSB investigators see these reports for a long time. When they finally sent copies of 756 eyewitness reports to the NTSB, they were in great disarray, causing a further delay in their release to the public. The NTSB recently made them available, together with related documents, on a CD-ROM. These can now be found on Cmdr. William S. Donaldsons web site, www.TWA800.com. This is a treasure trove for anyone interested in getting the truth about the TWA 800 crash. Hundreds of eyewitnesses saw TWA Flight 800 crash off the southern coast of Long Island, and what they saw was widely reported by the print and electronic media at the time. The FBI took control of the investigation and refused to let the NTSB interview eyewitnesses. No eyewitnesses were permitted to testify at the NTSB public hearing on the TWA crash in Dec.1997, and the FBI would not permit any discussion of the 244 eyewitness reports it had shared with the CIA. The CIA used them to produce a video simulation of the crash. James Kallstrom, who headed the FBI investigation, said the questioning of eyewitnesses "would have the unintentional effect of undermining the CIAs work." Now the CIAs work is undermined by the FBI eyewitness reports, together with appendix FF, a transcript of an NTSB witness group discussion on how the CIA decided that all the eyewitnesses who said they saw anything resembling a missile were wrong. An unidentified CIA analyst said they had been trying to figure out what source there could be for the streak of light that 260 eyewitnesses said they had seen. At 10 p.m. on Dec. 30, 1996, he got the idea "that you can explain what the eyewitnesses are seeing with only the burning aircraft." Eureka! Claim that everyone mistook the burning aircraft for a missile that caused it to blow up, and that gets rid of the problem created by those 260 eyewitnesses who saw a streak of light. "Analyst" based his great idea on the FBI reports on their interviews of one eyewitness, who, he said, "may be one eyewitness" who saw the entire incident. That one eyewitness is Michael Wire, a machinery expert who was working on a new drawbridge on Beach Lane, a road running from Westhampton, Long Island, to the beach. Wires FBI report says that standing on the bridge, looking toward the beach, he saw a white light just above the rooftop of a house about 900 feet away, ascending from the ground at about a 40 degree angle. It "sparkled" and he thought it was fireworks. It "zig zagged" as it traveled upward and was going south- southeast when it "arched over" and disappeared from view. Two or three seconds later he saw an orange light that appeared to be a fireball in the sky about half a mile away. It was falling at about a 30-degree angle, with a fire trail burning behind it. According to Wire, the fireball disappeared behind a house two houses away from the one where he saw the white light. He then heard the first and loudest of four explosions. It shook the bridge. Eight or nine seconds later he heard two more explosions followed by a fourth a second later. "Analyst" says that Wire was one of the few eyewitnesses who saw TWA 800, minus its nose, climbing 3000 feet. That does not appear in Wires interview, and he told me that is not true. He said he saw the plane blow up and immediately go down. He believes that what he saw was a missile and that the theory that a fuel explosion initiated the crash is false. "Analyst" said that CIA=B9s analysis was driven largely by Wire, "who gave us reference points," the house behind which he had seen "a white light for about 15 seconds" and the other house behind which "a small fireball" disappeared from view. "He was an important eyewitness to us," he said. The CIA never showed Michael Wise the video they claim he inspired and asked if it portrays what he saw. They have never spoken to him. If they ever do, he will tell them what he told me. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: VIN-- schoolyard petitioning (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 09:23:03 PST On May 29, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Schoolyard petitioning -- open to all? So long as those who are net tax recipients retain the vote (though some do sense a sizable conflict there), school district employees have the same right to circulate an initiative petition as anyone else. But when Clark County (Las Vegas) school bus driver Cynthia Knew approached other district employees during a break at the district's Arville Road bus yard on May 2, seeking signatures on a union petition pushing a new 4 percent state income tax on business activity, district Director of Transportation Ronald Despenza told her she'd gone too far. Mr. Despenza "unlawfully ordered Ms. Knew to not solicit any additional signatures on the district property, even during her off hours," charges the Nevada State Education Association in a lawsuit filed in Clark County District Court Monday. The suit asks the court to instruct the district to allow employees to circulate the petition on district property during their off hours. Give Ms. Knew credit for not sneaking around -- the way Mr. Despenza found out about the petition was that she handed it to him and asked him to sign. But there would still be a few problems with such an arrangement. First, school property is public property. And if a given piece of public property is open to some petition circulators, then it must be open to all petition circulators. The school district can hardly be seen picking and choosing which partisan political cause will receive its tacit endorsement. Would the school district allow non-employees to enter its faculty lounges, seeking employee signatures on petitions to break up the school district into smaller jurisdictions? Do parents or average citizens now have the right to enter school property seeking signatures on petitions asking that state funds be diverted to private schools through "vouchers" or tax credits? It would be one way to go. But given today's breathless concern over safety, liability, and control? Highly unlikely. In this regard, allowing the use of school property for electioneering on a selective basis would be equivalent to allowing district teachers to send home notes with each child, urging parents to vote for this new "hire more educrats" income tax proposal. Would some association of small businessmen, opposed to the tax, then be allowed to deliver hundreds of thousands of anti-tax pamphlets to the school district loading dock, secure in the guarantee that each one would be dutifully sent home with a child in the district? I didn't think so. The schools hold enormous potential political power. Already, Denver public school students have been granted academic "extra credit" for attending anti-gun rallies, and the organizers of the recent Million Mom March in Washington, D.C. asked school officials in Montgomery County, Md., to grant students credit toward their "student service learning requirement" for attending that partisan political demonstration. Up till now, "drug education" and other such thinly disguised propaganda assemblies have been tolerated on the theory that "No one favors drug use." Though if representatives of the Libertarian Party have been invited to present to student assemblies the case that legalizing drugs might prove a more effective solution -- just as re-legalizing alcohol in 1933 stopped the violence, corruption, and erosion of our legal rights now remembered as the "Roaring Twenties" -- it seems to have gone unannounced. The government schools would be well advised to guard against venturing any further down this slippery slope toward transparently partisan indoctrination of their "captive audience" -- be it student or employee -- lest a future court suit arrive on behalf of a major political party representing close to half the populace, arguing that those party members cannot be required to pay school taxes which promote such an antithetical partisan political agenda, any more than they should be required by law to pay dues to the opposition party. Imagine the school district's plight if the courts were to uphold such a suit as that. Finally, let up suppose that Mr. Despenza had acted as the union would now have the court order him to act -- signing Ms. Knew's petition and heartily congratulating her on her civic activism. Wouldn't she likely have told the next person, "See, the boss just signed; he says it's a great idea"? And are we really to believe that next employee solicited would not then have felt some undue pressure not to be seen as the "odd man out" -- not merely by a co-worker, but by the very head of his or her department, who might even now be watching out the window to see whether he or she signs? For all these reasons, Mr. Despenza did the right thing. Here's hoping the court agrees. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at $24.95 postpaid by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Home Schooling and Histrionics (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 09:21:57 PST On May 29, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] From the Home of Rich & Peggy Martin Grand Prairie, TX 75050 RichSlick@aol.com It's nice to be important, but it's important to be nice. _______________________________________________ INTRODUCTORY COMMENTARY With all that the schools in this country are doing (searching lockers, demanding clear plastic back packs, forcing students to go thru metal detectors because one of their fellow students may want to kill him/her, including draconian punishments for "distributing drugs", like aspirins to a fellow student, or applying no-tolerance fiats for kids firing finger guns), or not doing (like teaching the 3 R's, ranking 17th internationally), why would anyone object to home schooling? Of course, it's not for everyone, but for those that can-------should. Think about it, folks. Rich Martin Editor of Slick ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From: therepublican@ideasign.com (The Republican) Conservative News Service http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewEducation.asp?Page=\Education\archive\EDU20000525a. html Home Schooling and Histrionics By Isabel Lyman CNS Commentary from the Cato Institute 25 May, 2000 In a recent speech concluding his two-day "school reform tour," President Clinton offered his opinions on home schooling, suggesting that, in his mind, even successful private endeavors should not go unencumbered by government impositions. "If you're going to [operate a home school]," Clinton remarked, "your children have to prove that they're learning on a regular basis, and if they don't prove that they're learning then they have to go into a school -- either into a parochial or private school or a public school." This is truly a case of government's attempting to create a remedy for a problem that does not exist. The reason is intuitive: parents who assume the extraordinary burden of home schooling their children are by definition parents uncommonly dedicated to their children's education. Home-schooled students typically come from families with above average income, high educational achievement, intact marriages and a strong dedication to education. The reality, verifiable by anecdote and standardized test alike, is that in every academic area home-schooled students are far surpassing students enrolled in government schools. The most reliable data are from a 1998 study by Dr. Lawrence Rudner of the University of Maryland in which over 20,000 home-schooled students took standardized tests and completed other questionnaires. Unlike previous studies, Rudner's was conducted on a comparatively large sample and included only families who agreed to participate before knowing their children's test scores. The study concludes that "in every subject and at every grade level of the [tests], home schooled students scored significantly higher than their public and private school counterparts." Furthermore, the study shows that home-schooled children had average scores that fell between the 82nd and the 92nd percentile in reading and reached the 85th percentile in math. By the eighth grade, the average home-schooled student is performing four grade levels above the national average. If you measure academic achievement by success in national contests, consider that the 1997 National Spelling Bee was won by Rebecca Sealfon, a 13-year-old home schooler from Brooklyn, New York. In 1999 the National Geography Bee was won by David Beihl of Saluda, South Carolina, another 13-year-old home schooler. In his speech, Clinton said, "The best thing to do is to get the home schoolers organized." Of course, Clinton really means, organized by the government. Large non-government home school organizations already exist in every state. Richard G. Medlin, writing in the Home School Researcher, surveyed the attitudes of 1,500 home school students toward support groups and found that a remarkable 85 percent of those surveyed said they belong to such a group or intend to join one. Those organizations usually offer a wide range of services to home school families, such as newsletters, curriculum suggestions, state home school legal information, e-mail networks and conferences. For example, the Richmond Regional Home Educators of Richmond, Virginia has volunteers who organize a staggering number of activities, including a band, gymnastics classes, a yearbook and a graduation ceremony for high school seniors. My own 14-year-old son participates in the Edmond Home School Cooperative in central Oklahoma. The Co-op, as it is nicknamed, has 200 students and a waiting list of more than 100. Twice a week, students take academic classes, and the Co-op organizers are even hosting a chartered bus trip to Washington, D.C., this summer. Home-schooled students receive a more varied education than does a child who is conventionally schooled. Let's not forget that schools, no matter what the National Education Association preaches about the advantages of a racially diverse student body, are rigidly conformist institutions. Young people are subjected to the same predetermined curriculum, grading policies and behavioral guidelines and are expected to arrive and depart at the same time every day. Grade levels are determined primarily by age, regardless of a child's aptitude. Very often it is a loud bell that informs faculty that study of one topic must end and that of another must begin. Home schooling, by contrast, is based on the principles of liberty. Families enjoy the freedom to teach what they want, when they want. Parents can advocate a strict creationist view or they can offer evolution, without fear of offending anyone. Home-schooling parents don't take a dime from taxpayers and don't impose their educational methods on others; their children certainly are not gunning down other children. According to conservative estimates, home-schooled students account for only about 1 percent of the school-aged population. Their accomplishments are quite impressive, but some people are nonetheless suspicious and intolerant of this successful private education practice. Home schooling will not, if Clinton gets his way, be spared from the reflexive desire of some to claim the need for government supervision, regardless of whether the object of the endeavor wants, needs, or will be improved by the intrusion. Isabel Lyman holds a doctoral degree in Social Science and is author of the Cato Policy Analysis, "Homeschooling: Back to the Future?" [Forwarded For Information Purposes Only - Not Necessarily Endorsed By The Sender - A.K. Pritchard] ------------------------------ A.K. Pritchard http://www.ideasign.com/chiliast/ http://rosie.acmecity.com/songfest/189/ To subscribe to "The Republican" email list - just ask! therepublican@ideasign.com "Now, however, the educational system has become the weapon of choice for modern liberals in their project of dismantling American culture." --Judge Robert Bork in "Slouching Toward Gomorrah." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ GovtWatch for Freedom http://members.aol.com/g0vtwatch/index.html subscribe: govtwatch-subscribe@egroups.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: What Happens When You Run Against a Klintonista (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 16:50:34 PST On May 29, CJE wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Want to run a campaign against a Klintonista? Are you _sure_? http://www.sierratimes.com/arjj052900.htm And this is what happens when you're raped by El Presidente de Los Klintonistas, and talk about it: http://drudgereport.com Isn't our El Salvador-on-the Potomac a charming little spot? Cliff [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: SouthBendTribune.com Jack Colwell (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 16:51:51 PST On May 29, RichSlick@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Guaranteed to get you hot under the collar. The opinions contained herein, are not shared by the sender. FYI: South Bend is home of Notre Dame University. : SouthBendTribune.com Jack Colwell ----- Original Message ----- From: markav2@michiana.org l Please Call Jack Colwell at home and give him a piece of your mind. Jack Colwell 1462 Bridge Water Way Mishawaka, Indiana Home Phone: (219) 277-0677 -- May 28, 2000 jack colwell Shoot, it's just another family activity The National Rifle Association is known for good investments. Sure. The NRA owns some of the finest congressmen that money can buy. Now, they've found a sure-fire investment. The NRA plans to open a superstore in New York's Times Square, featuring virtual reality shooting ranges, gun paraphernalia sales and a grill serving wild game. It'll provide a family atmosphere. "We believe in family shooting for fun and shooting for enjoyment," said Wayne LaPierre, NRA executive vice president. So do a lot of kids these days. Just look at all the family shootings. Recall, too, the smiles on the faces of the Columbine High School practitioners of Second Amendment rights. Showed clearly how they were shooting for enjoyment. LaPierre said the store would be a place in which "firearms enthusiasts of all kinds can come and shop and play and be together." All kinds. Gang members, of course. Hey, they're particularly enthusiastic about shooting. Drug dealers could enthusiastically practice on the virtual reality ranges for the times when it's necessary to enthusiastically protect their distribution areas and ward off police. The NRA Sports store in Times Square is sure to be a success. Even anti-gun nuts are warming up to the concept. One was kind enough to suggest a sign for the superstore: "Over a million killed." Charlton Heston, Moses himself, will lead the way to the promised land of merchandising for the NRA. Heston was re-elected as NRA president at the gun lobby's annual meeting last weekend. He made a big hit, waving a musket in the air and saying people like the hysterical women in that Million Mom March would have to pry his gun "from my cold, dead hands." They won't try. They were just wailing about dead kids, not seeking to take away the Moses musket. They cited things like the United States having the highest gun death rate in a study of 36 countries. Well, that's what the Founding Fathers intended. They cited statistics. Like from a study of gun death rates for children under 15 in 26 industrialized countries. Showed the gun death rate in the good old United States of America was nearly 12 times higher than in the other 25 countries combined. Yes, combined. We're No. 1. And the NRA deserves the credit. At the NRA meeting, many of the patriots attending showed what they thought of Smith & Wesson. They shunned the gun maker's exhibit. Why? Well, Smith & Wesson caved in to the sob sisters and weaklings and agreed to put childproof locks on its pistols. Anybody knows that's a violation of Second Amendment rights. The Founding Fathers wrote: "A well-regulated militia being necessary, the right of children to shoot themselves shall not be infringed." The NRA superstore no doubt will have plaques spelling out many other rights the Founding Fathers intended in that amendment about a militia. New York's Times Square is envisioned as only the first site for an NRA Sports store. Michigan Avenue in Chicago is mentioned as another possible high-profile site. Shoot, before long, there will be a store in the South Bend-Mishawaka area. Start thinking now of possible locations. How about the College Football Hall of Fame? Young fans could practice techniques for two sports, kicking footballs and gunning down teachers, during the same visit. Attendance would shoot upward. Or maybe on the University of Notre Dame campus? It could go right next to the Hesburgh Center's Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies. It would be called the Heston Institute for Packin' a Piece Studies. Perhaps on the old Uniroyal site in Mishawaka? They've been saying for years that the site contained dangerous and deadly materials. We could continue that tradition. On Sample Street near the South Bend Police Station? That's it. Very convenient. For police, called so often to deal with results of shooting. And for the type of gun enthusiast who would see superstore warnings about authorities and decide to take pre-emptive action. Jack Colwell 1462 Bridge Water Way Mishawaka, Indiana Home Phone: (219) 277-0677 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Gas Shortage Ahead? -- Precautionary Measures Indicated (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 20:01:21 PST On May 29, Huck wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Anyone heard of this? Huck Norm Olson wrote: > To all Patriots: > > Having heard from three different sources in the past two > days that gas stations may begin to close as early as Thursday > due to a shortage, appropriate action may be necessary. > > One source said that the source's large Marathon station > is playing it "day-by-day" and has no guarantee of fuel tankers > this week-end. > > It may be good to begin asking questions of your local > station managers. If a fuel shortage is coming (soaring > prices it may indicate supply/demand problems) it would > be good to top off and replenish reserves within the > next 48 hours. > > Don't expect a media announcement or anything from the > federal or state emergency managers. I'm topping off my > Y2K barrels and tanks tonight, even at $1.76 per gallon. > It's expensive, but I am genuinely concerned. > > Kind Regards, > > Norm Olson, Commander > Northern Michigan Regional Militia [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Who Elected Him? (fwd) Date: 29 May 2000 19:57:22 PST On May 29, Roger W. Ek wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Well Susan....the women put Clinton in and kept him there. I feel inulted >and outraged about that. No amount of proof of his raping and abusing women, >his treason, infidelity, etc. could wake up the liberal NOW crowd and vast >majority of women to vote against that slime bag. If the truth offends you, >that's really tough!! Clinton was elected by 24% of America's eligible voters - twice! That's all, just 24%. How is this possible? Over half of our eligible voters just stayed home. We didn't have much of a choice. Clinton and Bush both favored NAFTA, GATT, MAI, IMF, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red China, bigger government, higher taxes and less freedom. Despite the limited choice we had, we did have the opportunity to throw the bum out and let that chance go. Our choices this year are very similar. Gore and Bush both favor (guess what) NAFTA, GATT, MAI, IMF, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red China, bigger government, higher taxes and less freedom. They seem to be alike, but there are subtle differences. Gore would try to take all our guns. Bush would only try to take some. Gore would try to create wilderness and drive people off their land. Bush only wants "limited" increases government land. The fringe candidates will attract only a few percentage points. No fringe candidate will carry even one state. Al Gore will get that same dedicated 24% of America's vote that Clinton did. If we don't swallow the bitter medicine and get out and vote for Bush, Gore will be the next president. After 8 years of Gore Hillary will be in for 8 years and by then Chelsea will be old enough. Think about it friends. ======================================================================== ///, //// \ /, / >./ For those that have fought for it, \ /, _/ /. Freedom has a flavor the protected \_ /_/ /. will never know. \__/_ < /<<< \_\_ Roger W. Ek /,)^>>_._ \ (/ \\ /\\\ Candidate for Maine Senate, District 3 // ```` ENOUGH ((` is ENOUGH mequest@telplus.net http://www.glprl.org/TOG/ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Lew Glendenning" Subject: RE: Who Elected Him? (fwd) Date: 30 May 2000 05:48:03 -0700 This is the same, tired "best-of-two-evils" argument. Until there is a consistent 5% vote for Freedom, neither party has any reason to change. When the Libertarians, for instance, have the balance of victory in any given race, the two major-party candidates will have the incentive to try to attract these votes. They can't do it by being "big gov" candidates. The Socialists never had more than 5% of the national vote. They never elected more than 20 members of Congress. Republicans are now more socialistic than the Socialists ever were. Every year, people hold their nose and vote for the least-bad major party candidates. Every year, we find we have lost more freedom, Constitutional gov is further devalued, fewer people understand our history, more think the current situation is 'normal'. Those trends are what is important -- having Al Gore as president will speed up these trends, Bush will slow them down. The trends will continue. There is a positive side: radicals produce radicals. Clinton sold more guns than anyone since Hitler because of his radical anti-gun stance. An increasing minority of people are concerned about the state of Constitutional government because of his blatant criminality. Gore will increase these trends faster than Bush. Lew > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:57 PM > To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Who Elected Him? (fwd) > > > On May 29, Roger W. Ek wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows > --------------------] > > >Well Susan....the women put Clinton in and kept him there. I feel inulted > >and outraged about that. No amount of proof of his raping and > abusing women, > >his treason, infidelity, etc. could wake up the liberal NOW > crowd and vast > >majority of women to vote against that slime bag. If the truth > offends you, > >that's really tough!! > > Clinton was elected by 24% of America's eligible voters - twice! > That's all, just 24%. How is this possible? Over half of our eligible > voters just stayed home. We didn't have much of a choice. Clinton and > Bush both favored NAFTA, GATT, MAI, IMF, the World Bank, the Federal > Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red China, bigger government, higher > taxes and less freedom. > > Despite the limited choice we had, we did have the opportunity to > throw the bum out and let that chance go. Our choices this year are > very similar. Gore and Bush both favor (guess what) NAFTA, GATT, MAI, > IMF, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red > China, bigger government, higher taxes and less freedom. > > They seem to be alike, but there are subtle differences. Gore would > try to take all our guns. Bush would only try to take some. Gore > would try to create wilderness and drive people off their land. Bush > only wants "limited" increases government land. > > The fringe candidates will attract only a few percentage points. No > fringe candidate will carry even one state. Al Gore will get that > same dedicated 24% of America's vote that Clinton did. If we don't > swallow the bitter medicine and get out and vote for Bush, Gore will > be the next president. After 8 years of Gore Hillary will be in for 8 > years and by then Chelsea will be old enough. Think about it friends. > > > ======================================================================== > ///, //// > \ /, / >./ For those that have > fought for it, > \ /, _/ /. Freedom has a flavor > the protected > \_ /_/ /. will never know. > \__/_ < > /<<< \_\_ Roger W. Ek > /,)^>>_._ \ > (/ \\ /\\\ Candidate for Maine > Senate, District 3 > // ```` > ENOUGH ((` is ENOUGH mequest@telplus.net > http://www.glprl.org/TOG/ > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message > ------------------------] > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | > sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+----------- > ---------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: RE: Who Elected Him? (fwd) Date: 30 May 2000 07:16:29 PST On May 30, Lew Glendenning wrote: >This is the same, tired "best-of-two-evils" argument. > >Until there is a consistent 5% vote for Freedom, neither party has any >reason to change. When the Libertarians, for instance, have the balance of >victory in any given race, the two major-party candidates will have the >incentive to try to attract these votes. They can't do it by being "big >gov" candidates. What with the 3Ps getting together in Hawaii, that may this time around. Hopefully that will sow the seed, but it still browns me off that the Greens are involved in it, >The Socialists never had more than 5% of the national vote. They never >elected more than 20 members of Congress. Republicans are now more >socialistic than the Socialists ever were. And the Democrats more Communistic than the Commies. >Every year, people hold their nose and vote for the least-bad major party >candidates. Every year, we find we have lost more freedom, Constitutional >gov is further devalued, fewer people understand our history, more think the >current situation is 'normal'. > >Those trends are what is important -- having Al Gore as president will speed >up these trends, Bush will slow them down. The trends will continue. > >There is a positive side: radicals produce radicals. Clinton sold more >guns than anyone since Hitler because of his radical anti-gun stance. An >increasing minority of people are concerned about the state of >Constitutional government because of his blatant criminality. Gore will >increase these trends faster than Bush. Yeah, but the Administration isn't the only factor that produces Radicals. How _we_ react to the activities of Administration(X), is _very_ important. The more outrageous they and their toadies come across, the more Radicals we can create. Even in slow times, (Bush), we can still say something like, "Remember how the Clintonistas were? These are the same clowns. Give them an inch, and they'll be stuffing this crap down our throats again." This is one of the reasons I forward so much stuff to/from various lists. Somebody out there having a brewski with the boys can turn to his pal and say, "Hey, remember that conversation we had about(X)? I just read that blah blah.", and another brush fire is started. It just takes good ammo about issue(X). >Lew > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-roc@lists.xmission.com >> [mailto:owner-roc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Bill Vance >> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2000 8:57 PM >> To: roc%xmission.com@lists.xmission.com >> Subject: Who Elected Him? (fwd) >> >> >> On May 29, Roger W. Ek wrote: >> >> [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows >> --------------------] >> >> >Well Susan....the women put Clinton in and kept him there. I feel inulted >> >and outraged about that. No amount of proof of his raping and >> abusing women, >> >his treason, infidelity, etc. could wake up the liberal NOW >> crowd and vast >> >majority of women to vote against that slime bag. If the truth >> offends you, >> >that's really tough!! >> >> Clinton was elected by 24% of America's eligible voters - twice! >> That's all, just 24%. How is this possible? Over half of our eligible >> voters just stayed home. We didn't have much of a choice. Clinton and >> Bush both favored NAFTA, GATT, MAI, IMF, the World Bank, the Federal >> Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red China, bigger government, higher >> taxes and less freedom. >> >> Despite the limited choice we had, we did have the opportunity to >> throw the bum out and let that chance go. Our choices this year are >> very similar. Gore and Bush both favor (guess what) NAFTA, GATT, MAI, >> IMF, the World Bank, the Federal Reserve, open borders, MFN for Red >> China, bigger government, higher taxes and less freedom. >> >> They seem to be alike, but there are subtle differences. Gore would >> try to take all our guns. Bush would only try to take some. Gore >> would try to create wilderness and drive people off their land. Bush >> only wants "limited" increases government land. >> >> The fringe candidates will attract only a few percentage points. No >> fringe candidate will carry even one state. Al Gore will get that >> same dedicated 24% of America's vote that Clinton did. If we don't >> swallow the bitter medicine and get out and vote for Bush, Gore will >> be the next president. After 8 years of Gore Hillary will be in for 8 >> years and by then Chelsea will be old enough. Think about it friends. >> >> >> ======================================================================== >> ///, //// >> \ /, / >./ For those that have >> fought for it, >> \ /, _/ /. Freedom has a flavor >> the protected >> \_ /_/ /. will never know. >> \__/_ < >> /<<< \_\_ Roger W. Ek >> /,)^>>_._ \ >> (/ \\ /\\\ Candidate for Maine >> Senate, District 3 >> // ```` >> ENOUGH ((` is ENOUGH mequest@telplus.net >> http://www.glprl.org/TOG/ >> >> [------------------------- end of forwarded message >> ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: boyd@seanet.com Subject: Re: Gas Shortage Ahead? -- Precautionary Measures Indicated (fwd) Date: 30 May 2000 09:32:54 -0700 Um, I'm not familiar with whats happening with Marathon and all of this -could- be true. That said, all of the gas stations not owned by refining companies (like Chevron, BP, Exxon -owned- corporate stations) -never- have a "guarantee" that a truck will show up -ever-. Their "guarantee" is the open market for refined products, something you can track in your copy of any national paper. Turning to the financial pages, you can find the spot price for heating oil or gas pretty easily. And add up for yourself what it would cost you to open up an independent gas station (sorta) and have a "guarantee" of fuel deliveries. Now, that price -has- gone up. It ALWAYS goes up memorial day weekend because 1) Anticipated increased demand of drivers that weekend (wich has always turned true) and 2) Suppliers know your not gonna stay home that weekend if prices go up a few cents. They like money just like you do. If the sky were -really- falling, we could find independent verifiable sources of it, really. Boyd (I have enough stored to drive to work for a week regardless of "alerts") Kneeland Bill Vance wrote: > > On May 29, Huck wrote: > > [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > > Anyone heard of this? > > Huck > > Norm Olson wrote: > > > To all Patriots: > > > > Having heard from three different sources in the past two > > days that gas stations may begin to close as early as Thursday > > due to a shortage, appropriate action may be necessary. > > > > One source said that the source's large Marathon station > > is playing it "day-by-day" and has no guarantee of fuel tankers > > this week-end. > > > > It may be good to begin asking questions of your local > > station managers. If a fuel shortage is coming (soaring > > prices it may indicate supply/demand problems) it would > > be good to top off and replenish reserves within the > > next 48 hours. > > > > Don't expect a media announcement or anything from the > > federal or state emergency managers. I'm topping off my > > Y2K barrels and tanks tonight, even at $1.76 per gallon. > > It's expensive, but I am genuinely concerned. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Norm Olson, Commander > > Northern Michigan Regional Militia > > [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Congress nulification of Fourth Amendment Rights... (fwd) Date: 30 May 2000 11:52:18 PST On May 30, bg wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] special-memorialday(Thanks to Chester for passing this along...) PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE. WE ARE LOSING IT FOLKS. Senate approves police searches and seizures without warrants. Compiled by Dana Davis The United States Congress is on the verge of passing a Republican sponsored bill that would eradicate the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution. Article IV of the Bill of Rights states, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." In addition, this bill extends its authority to impede upon the First Amendment Right of "Freedom of Speech." The Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act, "To provide for the punishment of methamphetamine laboratory operators, provide additional resources to combat methamphetamine production, trafficking, and abuse in the United States, and for other purposes," has already passed through the Senate and was being deliberated by the House of Representatives as of press time. In effect, what the provision does is empower the Federal Government, State Government and local law enforcement agencies, to enter private property - homes, businesses, automobiles, etc. for any "criminal searches" without a warrant and without any legal obligation to inform the private property owner that a search and seizure was conducted until months later, if at all. If the bill becomes law, then it would grant the Federal Government power to obtain "intangible" evidence -- hard-drive data, photographs or copies made of any documents or family or personal belongings, diaries, etc. - without ever having to inform the owner that their property was searched. If physical evidence was taken then the government could wait up to 90 days later, before having to notify the owner that a secret search of their property ever occurred. David Kopel, director of research for the Independence Institute, a Colorado think tank focusing on Constitutional issues, said the bill was aimed especially at computer hard drives, which could be copied in an owner' absence and examined without the owner's knowledge. The Senate's version of the bill (S. 486) was sponsored by Senator John Ashcroft (R-Missouri). The House Bill (H.R. 2987) was sponsored by U.S. Representative Chris Cannon (R-Utah). It's primary initiative is to increase criminal penalties for the sale, production and distribution of methamphetamines, appropriate funds to crack down on "meth labs" where the drug is processed, and fund methamphetamine treatment programs. However, tucked away deep inside the legal jargon of the bill are two provisions which go far beyond the realm of methamphetamine anti-proliferation or even the war on drugs. One measure pertains to police search and seizure, while the other attempts to dictate Internet communication. Under present law, a property owner must be notified immediately of any possession seized in a criminal search, but the "Notice and Clarification" section of the methamphetamine bill (S. section 301, H.R. section 6) amends U.S. Code by stating, "Section 3103a of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new sentence: `With respect to any issuance under this section or any other provision of law (including section 3117 and any rule), any notice required, or that may be required, to be given may be delayed pursuant to the standards, terms, and conditions set forth in section 2705, unless otherwise expressly provided by statute.' A source within the Senate Judiciary committee, speaking on condition of anonymity, admitted that the language in the search and seizure provision "slipped by everybody" in the Senate. "(Hatch and the Justice Department) buried it deep in the bill, and nobody noticed until the thing had already passed." "The Secret Searches measure is so outrageous that it would have no chance of being enacted as a bill on its own, when subjected to public scrutiny and debate," Kopel asserted. "So instead, the DOJ has nestled the Secret Search item deep inside a long bill dealing with methamphetamines." Jeanne Lapatto, spokesperson for the Senate Judiciary Committee and its chairman, Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), said she was unaware of the specific provisions in question, but defended the goals of the bill. "This is a bipartisan bill," Lapatto said. "During hearings, no one had any problems with the overall goal of the bill, which is curbing the horrible problem of methamphetamines." Another approach the bill takes to "curbing" methamphetamine usage is by making it a crime to create a hypertext link on the Internet to any site that "directly or indirectly advertises" drug paraphernalia, or distributes information about the processing or purchase of drugs (S. section 203, H.R. section 3). Under the provisions of the act, an Internet service provider, who is notified by a district attorney or representative of the Drug Enforcement Agency, that one of their hosted sites is in violation, would be required to remove the site within 48 hours or face federal criminal penalties. On top of that, another provision of the bill would make it punishable by up to ten years in prison, "To teach or demonstrate. or to distribute by any means of information pertaining to, in whole or in part, the manufacture of a controlled substance." U.S. Representative Bob Barr (R-Georgia), member of the House Judiciary Committee, is leading the fight against this bill in the House. Barr asserts that the search and seizure provisions of the bill, "Have nothing to do with methamphetamines," and he believes that had the search and seizure provision been introduced as a separate bill, its chances for passage, "Would be very, very problematic." "These are not minor changes," Barr added. "These are substantive and far-reaching changes to the criminal law on search and seizure. It's unconscionable that someone would try to sneak these provisions into an unrelated bill." A spokesperson for the Justice Department, which supports the provisions, declined to comment directly, but did release a recent letter from Assistant Attorney General Robert Ruben to House Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde (R-Illinois). In his letter, Ruben praised the bill for providing, "Important and necessary tools for deterring the spread of methamphetamine manufacturing and abuse in our nation." Speaking on behalf of House sponsor, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-Utah), legislative director Chris MacKay said the no-notice provision was necessary for, "Police to perform their job effectively." According to MacKay, the provision was designed to allow police to search with minimum risk to their safety and without suspects destroying evidence before they arrive, adding, "Anything we can do to win the war on drugs is worth doing." Tribune Combined Report, using with permission, amongst other sources, information compiled and written by Justin Torres of CNSNews.com and David Kopel of the Independence Institute. Send your comments to tribune@ioa.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Fw: Fog Horn (fwd) Date: 30 May 2000 21:43:41 PST On May 30, The McGehee Zone wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 1:46 PM Arkansas Democrat-Gazette May 30, 2000 Editorial The conspiracy grows Vaster and vaster . . . AND SO it begins. You can almost hear the War Room gearing up, the e-mail flying, the charges being test-marketed on line. Here is the word from Charles Schumer, freshman senator and senior Clinton apologist from the First Couple's latest home state: As for that disciplinary committee in Arkansas that recommended disbarment for the president, Senator Schumer tells the New York Times, it's just "a kangaroo court" unworthy of respect. Isn't this the same Charles Schumer who, during the president's impeachment, explained that the defendant's offenses--if any--could be safely left to the judicial system? But now that it's beginning to act, the senator is outraged. Why are we not surprised? No matter how they voted in these closed proceedings, the members of this disciplinary committee will now get the familiar treatment: They'll be labeled Clinton-haters, their impartiality will be doubted, their professional credentials dismissed, and in general they'll be painted as suspect characters, and soon enough as villains darker than Guy Fawkes or even ... Kenneth Starr! Already the comparisons to that Devil Incarnate have begun. Listen to Jay Bradford, president pro tem of Arkansas' state Senate, that fortress of virtue, as he explains why a heretofore respected committee of citizens would recommend disbarment for this particular attorney and president: "It's kind of like a continuation of the special prosecutor's effort. It's an extreme right-wing group getting more out of the publicity of trying to get the president's law license." That vast right-wing conspiracy seems to be getting vaster all the time. After all, it wasn't just the Southeastern Legal Foundation that brought this complaint to the attention of the state's Supreme Court, but The Hon. (and honorable) Susan Webber Wright. Is she in on this plot, too? We would never have guessed it. Her disguise was perfect: As a federal judge, she'd ruled in the president's favor (more than once) before she found out he had given false testimony in her court. And now the conspiracy has spread to other outwardly respectable citizens: Sue Winter of Little Rock, a retired schoolteacher. And lawyers like Ken Reeves of Harrison; John Rush and Win Trafford of Pine Bluff; and Jacqueline J. Cravens and James M. Cogbill of Fort Smith. This kangaroo court doubtless meets in a cellar somewhere every Wednesday night to plot their mischief against an innocent president and American hero. AFTER ALL the fog has cleared away, and all the lawyerspeak spoken, the question facing the court in the matter of William J. Clinton, Esq., will be simple enough: Should someone who has intentionally, deliberately, repeatedly given false testimony, and obstructed the judicial process, be allowed to practice law in the State of Arkansas? To ask the question, in a society with standards, is to answer it. It may be a single case, but what is at stake in this small but highly revealing matter is a lot bigger than Bill Clinton. (So many things are.) At stake is the dignity of the law. It is whether someone in high office should be held to high standards. It is whether lawyers have a special obligation to uphold the law. To succeed, as it has succeeded year after year in complicating the simple, the fog machine must obscure any considerations so basic as the simple truth. The fog will surely grow thicker. The president himself now contends that the testimony he gave was not legally false, as if truth and falsehood become something else in a courtroom. His defenders argue that this case doesn't concern anything really important like money -- even though, after his falsehoods were revealed, the president would settle the case for $850,000. No, it concerns only petty matters like contempt of court and the integrity of the judicial process. Anyway, the president was just giving a deposition, rather than testifying in a real trial, so any oath he might have taken didn't count. King's X! Almost every day, depositions are taken in this country, and somebody holds up his right hand and swears to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Suppose there is no real punishment for lying a little, or a lot? For swearing falsely and undermining justice? Suppose lawyers are given a signal in a high-profile case, one that will be cited as a precedent and maybe even taught in law schools, that they won't risk anything serious -- like their license -- by a little falsifying under oath, a little obstruction of the judicial process? A precedent, and a low one at that, will be set. The law is a great teacher -- not just for good but for ill. But we haven't mentioned our favorite piece of spin so far: The president wasn't acting as a lawyer when he misled the court but testifying as a litigant. It's an interesting distinction, this flimsy one between lawyer and litigant. It is grounded on the assumption that, when a lawyer raises his hand and swears to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, he should be held to a lower standard than he ordinarily would. Interesting. A lawyer's obligation to tell the truth, once under oath, grows lesser rather than greater. For he ceases to be a lawyer and officer of the court when he takes the stand. Yes, interesting. But not convincing. This argument may sound even stranger to those of us who have had to watch, again and again, the unbearable tape of Bill Clinton's lip-biting testimony that awful day. It is clear that he was thinking every minute as a lawyer, and only as a lawyer -- a sleazy one -- rather than as a man who has sworn to tell the truth, on his soul. Surely only someone learned in the law could have shown such smooth contempt for it. Just as only someone with supreme confidence in his boyish charm and proven appeal could have been so sure he could get away with it. (Remember how he paused and pondered, as if sincerely trying to remember whether he'd ever been alone with Monica?) HOW DID we come to this pass, to all these interesting but in the end appalling distinctions that say less about the subject under discussion than about the attitudes of those drawing them? When did we start thinking like this? Answer: When the law became a game instead of a discipline. When truth in the courtroom became something different from truth outside. When the law became a technically deft trade, like auto body repair or counterfeiting, rather than a light. When law was separated from other disciplines -- philosophy, theology, the social sciences, and, when necessary, reason itself -- and became the stuff of talk-show shouting matches and too-clever briefs. We began thinking this way when the law became something to use, not to guide us. When the adversarial process ceased to be a part of the law and metastasized into all of it. And when what came to count with us, no matter how we had to shift and trim and evade and duck and dodge, was to win. And so lose all. That is how we reached this sorry point, and why even now judges and lawyers and an occasional retired schoolteacher are heard from, reminding us of some home truths, and cutting through the fog. Even now, strangely enough, there are those in authority who are unafraid to see the obvious, and what needs to be done: disbar the shyster. This article was published on Tuesday, May 30, 2000 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [newsucanuse] VIN -- questions for politicians (fwd) Date: 31 May 2000 08:38:11 PST On May 31, SlickEditor@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz 'Hi, what is the purpose of government?' Recently, the editor of the newspaper sent around a memo to the Opinion staff, advising us: "We need to send a questionnaire to candidates. Please give me ideas for questions. ..." I replied: # # # 1) Can lawmakers enact legislation for any purpose "in the public interest," or are they limited to those functions for which they've been delegated specific powers? Can you name some areas where government could probably do some good, but where it has no delegated power to act? If you can't name any such areas, is it still accurate to say Americans have a "government of limited powers"? Does this matter? 2) Can you name any departments or programs not specifically authorized in the state's (or the nation's) founding documents? Should someone who has sworn an oath to protect the Constitution, but who then votes to allocate tax funds to programs or departments not authorized by that Constitution, be punished? If not, why not? 3) Can you name a current tax that you would repeal? A fee? 4) Are residents of our state free to engage in any business they choose? Is operating any local business for profit a privilege, for which a citizen should apply for a permit, paying a fee or tax? Would you favor any changes in this regard? 5) Do residents of this state have a right to buy and keep machine guns? Why or why not? 6) Do residents of this state have a right to carry handguns openly on their hips without applying for or receiving a "permit"? Why or why not? Would you change current law enforcement in this area? In what way? 7) Should judges tell jurors they have a right to decide whether the law in question is constitutional? Is it a fair trial if the judge tells the jurors they do NOT have a right to decide the constitutionality of the law? Should judges be allowed to prevent defendants from presenting any defense they choose? If not, what is the proper recourse in the case of a judge who refuses to let the defendant do so? 8) Should judges exclude prospective jurors after questioning them and determining they do not favor the law which the prosecution seeks to enforce? If so, why do we still call them "random juries"? Does that mean the John Peter Zenger jury should have been stacked with crown sympathizers? Should juries have been stacked in the 1850s to guarantee convictions under the Fugitive Slave Act? Should judges be punished for thus excluding jurors based on "voir dire" questioning? Alfred the Great summarily executed judges who replaced jurors who refused to convict. Would this be a good solution for us to adopt, today? Why not? 9) Should it be legal for police to search automobiles without a warrant? Is it OK for police to tell drivers they have to consent to such a search? If a police officer searches a car without a warrant, should the police officer be arrested and put on trial? If not, why not? 10) If a police officer stops a car in which the driver is carrying a legal pistol, with a permit, should the officer disarm the driver before proceeding to write a ticket? Why or why not? 11) If police serve a search warrant which does not list any firearms, but they find firearms in the house being searched, is it OK for them to seize the firearms anyway? Why or why not? Would you favor a law to alter current practice in this regard? If so, specify. 12) Do we need more "gun control" (victim disarmament) laws? If so, name one new "gun control" law you would favor. If not, can you name a current "gun control" law you would repeal? 13) Can a tax rate be so high that it's not acceptable? If so, name a tax rate so high that citizens would be under no moral obligation to pay it. If you can't name such a rate, are you saying the government has a right to take 100 percent of what we earn and what we own? 14) Is the war on drugs succeeding? Can it succeed? Should all drugs be legalized? If not, why not? Should recreational drug users be committed for psychiatric treatment? 15) Whose powers are limited by the 10th Amendment? Can you think of any ways to improve enforcement of the 10th Amendment? No, you can't look it up. # # # Perhaps a few of these questions will make the final list. If so, I'll let you know how our current crop of local office-seekers fare. In the meantime, if you get a chance to chat with one of your local politicians at a picnic in your hometown this summer, don't fall into the old trap of asking "What are you going to do to get more funding for (insert your favorite government program here)?" Instead, try one or two of the questions above. If you still believe this is the "land of the free," the answers you hear -- or the look of horror that flashes briefly across that face before he or she spots someone across the way he just has to go see -- may shock you. Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998," is available at 1-800-244-2224. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it." -- John Hay, 1872 "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed -- and thus clamorous to be led to safety -- by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." -- H.L. Mencken * * * To subscribe, send a message to vinsends-request@ezlink.com, from your NEW address, including the word "subscribe" (with no quotation marks) in the "Subject" line. All I ask of electronic subscribers is that they not RE-forward my columns until on or after the embargo date which appears at the top of each, and that (should they then choose to do so) they copy the columns in their entirety, preserving the original attribution. The Vinsends list is maintained by Alan Wendt in Colorado, who may be reached directly at alan@ezlink.com. The web sites for the Suprynowicz column are at http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The Vinyard is maintained by Michael Voth in Flagstaff, who may be reached directly at mvoth@infomagic.com. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Poll re gun control and parenting issues (fwd) Date: 31 May 2000 08:36:40 PST On May 31, Nramancpe@aol.com wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 9:37 AM A parenting web site is featuring a pro-gun control poll. Thus far they have only had 18 responses, and the majority are in favor of banning handguns. We could make an impact by answering the questions ourselves, at: http://www.offspringmag.com/tools/poll/index.cfm?story=npapoll [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Gun control poll (fwd) Date: 31 May 2000 08:35:19 PST On May 29, Doug Spittler wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Another poll at http://www.elections.excite.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: [harpazo] Something to think about (fwd) Date: 31 May 2000 10:43:29 PST On May 30, BaBette Z. Bechtold wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] I hope this will not upset you the way it did me.....read on....Deanna > With No Obligation to Educate, Schools Turn to Thought Control > By Linda Gorman > > In case you were ever in doubt, the Colorado Court of Appeals has > just > made it official. Colorado public schools have no legally enforceable > obligation to educate children. According to the court, parents and > students cannot sue school districts because they are not private > students > enrolled in a private vocational school but, instead, consist of the > general public. They have not individually bargained with the school > district, nor individually paid for specific educational services. As a > result, they cannot assert legal claims for the alleged failure to > provide > those unbargained-for services.[1] > > The Court found that the contention that the quality of education > provided by the school district is inadequate is not a matter to be > properly resolved by the courts. Had various courts not already found > legal excuses for taking control of almost every other aspect of school > operations, its restraint would be refreshing. > > In other words, the state may require that children attend school > and that everyone pay school taxes. In return, citizens get to vote for > one of the slates of school board candidates offered by the teachers > union. > > Though government entities are free to compel people to pay for > lousy services over which they have little control, private entities are > not. Private vocational schools failing to offer promised classes or > hours of instruction can be sued. > > Having mastered the art of pretending to educate those required to > attend it and having been freed of any responsibility to do otherwise, > the > Denver Public School System (DPS) is apparently planning to expand into > pretending to provide mental, medical, and behavioral health services. > To this end, the Center for Human Investment Policy at the University of > Colorado Denver was asked to develop a health/behavioral health needs > assessment survey to gather broader input to determine if principals, > nurses, psychologists, social workers, teachers and parents are in > agreement about these issues.[2] > > Judging from the loaded questions, DPS officials want the power to > pass judgment on the physical, mental, emotional, and social health of > individual children and to treat those problems as they see fit. > > What level of health and behavioral health care do you believe your > school should provide? asks question number 7. In addition to Dont know, > one may pick Basic Care, which includes referral for assessment and > treatment, Intermediate Care, which adds counseling and care for chronic > health problems, or Full Care which includes treatment for general > medical > and mental health problems and referral to specialists. There is no space > for telling DPS elites to stay out of health care delivery until they > have > mastered the art of delivering reading, writing, and arithmetic. > > Note also that mental health and behavioral problems are lumped with > medical ones despite the fact that medicine has a scientific basis and > most mental and behavioral health assessments consist of little more > than someones opinion. The potential for abuse, for drugging the rebels > and brainwashing those who disagree, is huge and already beginning to be > realized. > > According to Jon E. Dougherty writing in WorldNetDaily, Derek > Loutzenheiser, a 12-year-old student with an exemplary record in Holland, > Michigan, was labeled a potential violence risk when he suggested, in a > Social Studies class discussion, that one way to prevent school shootings > would be to arm instructors. School officials told his parents that they > would not have to involve Social Services if Derek was separated from > other students and forced to enter the schools Mentor program so that an > adult supervisor could monitor his thought processes.[3] > > Recall that Social Service bureaucrats have the power to declare > parents guilty of child abuse until proven innocent, and to take their > child from them until parents prove their innocence. > > School officials noted that Derek had violated the schools policy of > non-violence by fighting back when attacked by three older students and > had often spoken favorably about the First and Second Amendments. His > parents noted that Derek had refused to sign a Red Letter vow of peace > written by the principal that asked students to take a oath to turn in > their friends for suspicious activity and to never defend themselves if > attacked. > > In short, Derek had refused to parrot the party line and was judged > behaviorally unhealthy. The Soviets pioneered this model by declaring > those who disagreed with the government mentally aberrant and imprisoning > them in mental institutions until their thinking could be adjusted by > psychological conditioning or drugs. As DPS puts it, schools are where > one finds children, so it [sic] is the best place to offer > health/behavioral health services, children need good health to learn, so > health/behavioral health is a valid school concern, and children with > health/behavioral health challenges need medical attention in schools to > reach their potential.[4] > > DPS has a point. Judging from his behavior, Derek has already > assimilated the independence and respect for truth characteristic of > outstanding Americans. Without medical attention, he never will realize > his full potential as a good little citizen in the new world order. > > Notes: > > [[1]]Denver Parents Association et al. v. Denver Board of Education; > 98CA1309, Colorado Court of Appeals. February 3, 2000. As posted on the > Colorado Bar Associations > web site, http://www.cobar.org/coappcts/ca2000/ct02036.htm, on 10 May > 2000. > > [2] Denver Public School Health and Behavioral Health Needs Assessment > Survey. 1 May 2000. The Center for Human Investment Policy, University > of Colorado, Denver. > > [3] Jon E. Dougherty. 30 March 2000. Sixth grader targeted for pro-gun > remarks, A student defends 2nd Amendment, flagged as violence risk. > WorldNetDaily, > > > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_dougherty/200000330_xnjdo_sixth_grad.sh > tml > > as posted on the web on 9 May 2000. > > [4] Denver Public School Health and Behavioral Health Needs Assessment > Survey. 1 May 2000. The Center for Human Investment Policy, University > of Colorado, Denver. Questions 15 [2], 15 [4], and 15 [5] all of which > required an agree or disagree answer. Note that agreeing that schools > should be concerned about health does not imply that they should deliver > it. > > Linda Gorman is a Senior Fellow with the Independence Institute, a > free-market think tank in Golden, Colorado, http://i2i.org. This article > originally appeared in the Colorado Daily (Boulder), for which Linda > Gorman is a regular columnist. > > > Rebecca Kruc and associates > Mommy to many and friend to all :- ) > > Wife to Michael, mother for Jacintha, Stephen, Joshua, Marilyn, Philip, > Bethany and ??? [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steven A. Silver" Subject: [Fwd: A "Million Mom March" of Days Gone By] Date: 31 May 2000 10:46:23 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0358D2823BCD8724108C869D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- Steve Silver Attorney at Law: http://www.silver-legal.com/ The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society: http://www.thelsas.org/ Citizens of America (fighting back): http://citizensofamerica.org/ Get the TRUTH About Guns: http://www.guntruths.com/ --------------0358D2823BCD8724108C869D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net ([207.217.121.49]) by mail06.dfw.mindspring.net (Mindspring/Netcom Mail Service) with ESMTP id sj8sat.319.33qs88a Tue, 30 May 2000 21:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from david (pool0852.cvx29-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net [209.179.137.87]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA14513; Tue, 30 May 2000 18:51:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000501bfcaa2$57e4fa40$5789b3d1@david> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 GunTruths.com presents a pictorial account from a "Million Mom March" of days gone by. To see it, click on the provided link (or paste into browser if it wraps). http://www.guntruths.com/Resource/Posters/1st_million_mom_march.htm WARNING: this poster presents graphic violence. It is not intended for children. If you agree that the message of this poster needs to be seen and understood, please forward this message. Please see our other posters at: http://www.guntruths.com/Resource/Posters/posters_and_other_stuff_you_can_.h tm David Codrea http://www.guntruths.com/ http://www.citizensofamerica.org/ --------------0358D2823BCD8724108C869D-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul M Watson Subject: Re: roc-digest V2 #348 Date: 31 May 2000 15:05:26 -0500 (CDT) Not sure if I can still post., About Norm Olson, he is A: A dumb hick , B: A dumb hick who works for the feds. Anyone remember his Senate Hearing on the Militia movement? I do the guy screwed the only chance the so called "patriot movement" ever had to express something other than bunker buddy idiots. All these guys scream wolf at White trucks from the UN, our own trains doing normal movements of our own military equipment and hundreds of other cry wolf un-verified crap. Its know wonder none of these folks were real commissioned officers, they are grunts and nothing more. There is no oil shortage, there is a increase in demand vs world supply, not the same thing. About not being able to sue a school district, you almost can not sue any government except for things they by law allow. Even here with our bad math, and feel good Plano Texas system, there is nothing keeping all the parents from electing the right people to the school board. Just like you can not sue for an election electing the person you voted against. The point is if the good citizens elect a bunch of fools to government who then pass poor laws for poor products from the school system or any other area in government it is legal and what we voted for. There is not a contract with the people for good government with contractual obligations. Government is a agent of the people who then contracts for them. I have an issue all the time where people call me wanting a tax exempt number for my University not to pay taxes. I have to call them and try and explain that we are the State government and exempt from state and federal taxes because of the 10th amendment. A tax exempt number is for a not for profit corporation. There is a contract for limited government called a State and Federal constitution. Good government only comes with good people elected to government. Regards, Paul Watson C.P.M., pwatson@utdallas.edu Senior Buyer UTD The University of Texas at Dallas President of ASCC Autism Society of Collin County ASCC Home Page http://www.autism-ascc.org These views are mine alone and not any organization - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Intelligence Report For The Memorial Day Recess (fwd) Date: 31 May 2000 20:52:37 PST On May 31, Odell Harwell wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] -------- Original Message -------- Gun Rights / Control: "The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance, which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime----and the punishment of his guilt." John Philpot Curran (1750-1817) --------- Forwarded message ---------- GOA's Intelligence Report For The Memorial Day Recess -- Congress to take up legislation affecting your gun rights after extended break (Wednesday, May 31, 2000) -- Congress is out of session this week, but your representatives still need to hear from you. Below are two items of great concern to our liberties. Rep. Hostettler To Offer Amendments Stopping BATF From Enforcing Recent Gun Restrictions Remember the Clinton & Wesson agreement from back in March? Well, pro-gun Rep. John Hostettler (R-IN) is still determined to stop the Clinton administration from imposing backdoor gun control upon a good portion of the gun industry through its recent deal with Smith & Wesson. You will recall that the Clinton & Wesson agreement regulates the sales of ALL firearms sold by dealers carrying S&W products -- including Glocks, Berettas, Brownings, etc. Moreover, no gun can be sold by an S&W dealer until the FBI gives a definitive "yes" or "no." Thus, if the FBI's computers go down (like they did just a couple of weeks ago) no S&W dealer can transfer a firearm until the government's computers go back online and the FBI gives its verdict. Since Clinton could not get Congress to do his dirty work, he pulled off a legislative coup d'etat by enlisting the help of S&W and the BATF. But the Clinton & Wesson deal can only work if the BATF gets funds to pay for their involvement in the Oversight Commission created by the accord. That's where Hostettler hopes to score big. He's ready to offer amendments to two appropriation bills, defunding any BATF involvement in the pact. Without funds for the BATF, the federal government cannot enforce the agreement. Please stay tuned for future alerts, as GOA will keep you up to date with Hostettler's plans. He will soon begin targeting both the HUD appropriations bill and funding for the BATF in the Treasury-Postal appropriations bill. (Both bills are still in committee and have yet to receive a legislative number.) Oppose Legislation Giving Clinton The Power To Conduct Secret Searches On Your Property Like a weed spreading through your garden, a provision proposing to give the Justice Department frightening new powers keeps popping up in bill after bill. Specifically, this "sneak and peek" provision would let the government sneak onto your property while you were away, seize certain items from your home and not tell you about it for months -- if at all. Currently, the provisions are in two bills (the bankruptcy and methamphetamine bills), but if the provision becomes law, it would apply to all federal agents and all searches and seizures -- not just those affecting bankruptcy and drug cases. Dave Kopel of the Independence Institute has noted that:=20=20 When conducting searches, federal agents are currently required to announce their presence before entering, and to provide an inventory of any items they take. Because the person whose home or business is being searched knows about the search, he can exercise his Fourth Amendment rights, and make sure that the police have a properly-issued search warrant. He can also see if the search is being conducted according to the warrant's terms -- i.e., the police are searching only for items authorized by the warrant, they are searching the right address, etc. But under a Secret Searches law, federal police could enter a person's home surreptitiously, conduct a search, and not tell the homeowner until months later. Even months later, the police would not have to provide an inventory of 'intangible' items which were taken in a search. So if the police entered your home secretly, and photocopied your diary or made a copy of your computer hard disk, they would never have to inform you of their actions. Of course, one wonders what those sneaky Clinton officials will do when they see certain "tangible" items in your home -- like that Remington 1100 hanging in the family room, or the 9mm Beretta in the top drawer of your desk? ACTION: Please ask your Representative and Senators to oppose any bill that contains these Secret Search provisions. They have already been deleted from one bill, but still remain in the bankruptcy reform bill (H.R. 833) and the Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation bill (H.R. 2987). The former bill, H.R. 833, is in a House-Senate conference committee -- thus, both Senators and Representatives will be voting on this bill again. It is expected that the latter bill, H.R. 2987, will be voted on in the House in the near future. You can use the GOA Legislative Action Center at http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to contact Congress and send messages. The toll-free Capitol switchboard number is 1-888-449-3511. A pre-written message is provided below. The Clinton administration is strongly in favor of the Secret Search proviso and is lobbying Congress to get it passed. If administration lobbyists are thwarted in getting their expanded powers from these two bills, they will certainly try to get the proviso planted in other bills as well. Encourage your legislators to read the bills they vote for (a novel idea) and to vote against any bill that allows for officials to conduct secret searches on your property. NOTE for Utah activists: Sen. Orrin Hatch is one of the prime backers of the Secret Search proviso, and he has been fervently working at getting it snuck into different legislation. Thus, one Republican Congressman has asked GOA to please urge its members to let Senator Hatch know you oppose the "sneak and peek" provision. If Sen. Hatch gets enough "heat" from his home state, he may relent on this dangerous provision. ----- Pre-written message ----- Dear Representative or Senator, Please oppose any and all attempts to enact "Secret Search" provisions. Such provisions (as currently found in H.R. 833 and H.R. 2987) would give frightening new powers to the Justice Department at the expense of constitutional liberties. The Fourth Amendment specifically protects a person from unreasonable searches and seizures. However, "Secret Search" legislation turns that amendment on its head by allowing completely surreptitious searches. Worse, certain types of property may then be seized -- without any notification to a homeowner whatsoever. Private records such as computer files could be copied at will. Such intrusive powers are usually associated with dictatorships, not free societies. There is no possible legislative vehicle that would be anything other than an abomination if it contained such blatant abuses of power. I request that you vote against any and all legislation, regardless of other merits, that includes "Secret Search" provisions. Sincerely, ________________________________________________________________ [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** RKBA! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! -