From: Bill Vance Subject: Police Union Endorses Concealed Firearms Legislation (fwd) Date: 02 Mar 2002 11:09:35 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Carl William Spitzer ----------------------- by Jim Burns, CNSNews.com Wednesday, Nov. 7, 2001 CNSNews.com -- The Fraternal Order of Police, one of the largest law enforcement labor organizations in America, said it fully endorses a bill that would allow off-duty and retired law enforcement officers the right to carry con- cealed firearms, even when they travel outside their juris- dictions. "I keep hearing from my members, from the more than 299,000 men and women of the Fraternal Order of Police, that we need this bill now, especially in light of the terrorist attacks on the United States," said FOP President Steve Young in a statement. The bill, called the "Community Protection Act," was introduced in the House by Rep. Duke Cunningham, R-Calif. The legislation has around 207 co-sponsors, eleven shy of a House majority. Cunningham is now circulating a discharge petition among his House colleagues, according to his spokesperson Harmony Allen. If Cunningham receives enough signatures, it could force House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensen- brenner, R-Wis., to release the committee's hold on the bill. Capitol Hill insiders say it is highly unusual for a member of the majority party to offer a discharge petition, because the maneuver usually threatens the majority party's control of House floor action. The minority party usually circulates discharge petitions. Cunningham said he has no alternative because he thinks Sensenbrenner is refusing to act on his bill. "Too often police officers come upon situations where they can prevent violent crimes and save lives but aren't able to defend themselves and protect those around them," Cunningham said. "Thousands of equipped, trained and certi- fied officers will now be allowed to continually serve and protect our communities regardless of jurisdiction, and at no cost to taxpayers." Sensenbrenner told Roll Call, a Capitol Hill newpaper, he thinks Cunningham's bill could potentially kick off a wide-open gun debate in the Senate, where gun control forces are stronger. He also said the bill would abrogate current laws in 17 states. "I'm disappointed that Duke would this. There is just a limit to the amount of things that the committee can do," Sensenbrenner told Roll Call. Sensenbrenner said the House Judiciary Committee has already acted on terrorism, bankruptcy reform and broadband legislation, as well as a flag-burning amendment sponsored by Cunningham. The Law Enforcement Association of America and National Association of Police Organizations also endorse Cun- ningham's bill. But the International Association of Chiefs of Police opposes it, based on the issue of federal versus state control. "The IACP believes it is essential that state govern- ments maintain the ability to legislate concealed carry laws that best fit the needs of their communities," said the IACP in a statement. "This applies to laws covering private citizens as well as active or former federal, state, and local law enforcement personnel." The IACP also thinks allowing off-duty and retired police officers to carry concealed firearms would make it confusing for local officers in some cases, with potentially tragic results. If a police officer from another jurisdiction pulled out a gun to stop a crime, for instance, a local officer might mistake his fellow policeman for a criminal. The IACP said, "This legislation would do little to improve the safety of communities. It is important to remem- ber that a police officer's authority to enforce the law is limited to the jurisdiction in which they serve. An officer, upon leaving his jurisdiction, has no arrest powers or other authority to enforce the law. That is the responsibility of the local law enforcement agencies." http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/11/7/64149.shtml ----------------------- end forwarded message from Carl William Spitzer ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: The California Train Wreck NRA Will Cause (fwd) Date: 02 Mar 2002 20:20:28 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Rich Martin ----------------------- The California Train Wreck NRA Will Cause The NRA bus is parked on the tracks of the California gubernatorial primary. The driver won't budge. We have heard the distant warning horn of an approaching express, felt the vibrations of the rails. The crossing gates are down, their alarm bells clanging, yet still the driver will not move. The train is now in view and it's coming fast. We can hear its roar and feel its power. It can't be stopped. Read story at: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3199 NRA Grassroots Bolting From Jones "Ignore Candidate Endorsed by HQ, Work for Opponent" In a surprising development, California NRA-affiliated grassroots activists are ignoring the organization's endorsement of Bill Jones and scrambling to support Bill Simon in the Golden State gubernatorial primary. Read story at: http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=3200 It is vital that California gun owners and conservatives who agree with this report immediately contact NRA at: ILA-Contact@nrahq.org. Also complete the "feedback" form on Bill Jones' website and urge him, for the good of his party and his state, to release NRA from its endorsement, to bow out of the race, and to endorse Bill Simon. David Codrea is a co-founder and director for the national pro-rights media campaign, Citizens of America (www.CitizensOfAmerica.org), and an advisor and contributor for www.KeepAndBearArms.com. His professional writing is featured often in Guns and Ammo magazine. Additionally, he is the national coordinator for A Petition for the Enforcement of the Second Amendment (www.KeepAndBearArms.com/Petition). His archives can be accessed here: www.KeepAndBearArms.com/Codrea. ===== Rich Martin Editor, Slick eZine Cut out the middlemen. Send donations to: Boys Scouts of America National HQ 1329 Walnut Hill Ln. Irving, TX 75162 http://www.SaveOurScouts.com ----------------------- end forwarded message from Rich Martin ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Maryland Eagle Scout shot by FBI, in serious condition (fwd) Date: 03 Mar 2002 13:50:59 -0800 (PST) Pray for America. -------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com -------------------- Source: Baltimore Sun http://www.sunspot.net/ Eagle Scout shot by FBI in serious condition Eagle Scout, 20, had been mistaken for robbery suspect http://www.sunspot.net/news/custom/guns/bal-md.shooting03mar03.story?coll 3Dbal% 2Dlocal%2Dheadlines By Kimberly A.C. Wilson Sun Staff Originally published March 3, 2002 An Eagle Scout who was mistaken for a bank robber and shot in the face by an FBI agent in Pasadena on Friday remained in serious but stable condition at Maryland Shock Trauma Center last night. Joseph Charles Schultz, 20, was shot at close range about 6 p.m. Friday when FBI agents searching for a bank robbery suspect pulled over his girlfriend's car. Schultz, who lives in the 7900 block of Seabreeze Drive in Orchard Beach in Anne Arundel County and works with fiber optics for a local medical company, has no connection to the bank robbery, officials said. At the time of the shooting, Schultz, who graduated from Northeast High School in Pasadena in 2000, was a passenger in a Pontiac Grand Am driven by his girlfriend, 16-year-old Krissy Harkum. The couple was returning from a trip to Marley Station Mall in Glen Burnie when plainclothes federal agents in unmarked cars pulled them over near Key Bridge Discount Liquors at 7212 Fort Smallwood Road, according to Harkum's father, Joseph Harkum. Carrying weapons that his daughter, a junior honor student at Northeast, described as "assault rifles or machine guns," the agents ordered them to put their hands up, he said. That's when the agent on the passenger's side opened fire, striking Schultz once, he said. 'Yeah, I'm angry' "Here you got two of the sweetest kids on the Earth going to the mall and having Slurpees, getting shot through the car window. It's a mess. Yeah, I'm angry," Harkum said from his Pasadena home. FBI spokesman Barry Maddox said agency policy prevented the immediate release of the name of the agent who shot Schultz. He also declined to comment on whether the agent has been assigned to desk duty pending an investigation of the shooting. Nor have FBI officials released information about how the shooting took place. "It's an ongoing investigation, and under most circumstances we do not give out too much information," Maddox said. Harkum said his daughter was struck by glass and blood but was uninjured in the shooting. Still, she remained shaken yesterday. 'She's not doing too good' "She had nightmares about it," Harkum said. "She's not doing too good. Emotionally, she's not OK," he said. Krissy Harkum remained at Schultz's bedside last night. Though he was unable to speak, her father said, she told him that Schultz wrote her a note asking, "Why did he shoot me?" Family members reached at Schultz's home referred reporters' calls to attorney Joseph C. Asensio, who did not return repeated calls seeking information last night. Yesterday afternoon, agents assigned to the FBI's shooting review group based in Washington scoured the scene for the agency's internal investigation. Anne Arundel County police officers continued their probe of the shooting yesterday and were setting up interviews with witnesses, said Officer Charles Ravenell. Sun staff writer Lynn Anderson contributed to this article. -------------------- end forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com -------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc. Subject: Re: Maryland Eagle Scout shot by FBI, in serious condition (fwd) Date: 04 Mar 2002 10:04:23 -0500 Send the major media questions: why did they not run this story when they run every other gun shooting story? I just forwarded this to the editor of reuters.com and asked that question. best Chad On Sunday, March 3, 2002, at 04:50 , Bill Vance wrote: > Pray for America. > > -------------------- begin forwarded message from > BOBWORN@aol.com -------------------- > > From: BOBWORN@aol.com > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:05:48 EST > Subject: Maryland Eagle Scout shot by FBI, in serious condition > > From: spiker77@lyonl.com (spiker) > > Source: > Baltimore Sun > http://www.sunspot.net/ > > Eagle Scout shot by FBI in serious condition > Eagle Scout, 20, had been mistaken for robbery suspect > http://www.sunspot.net/news/custom/guns/bal- > md.shooting03mar03.story?coll > 3Dbal% > > 2Dlocal%2Dheadlines > > By Kimberly A.C. Wilson > Sun Staff > Originally published March 3, 2002 > > An Eagle Scout who was mistaken for a bank robber and shot in the face > by > an FBI agent in Pasadena on Friday remained in serious but stable > condition > at Maryland Shock Trauma Center last night. > > Joseph Charles Schultz, 20, was shot at close range about 6 p.m. Friday > when FBI agents searching for a bank robbery suspect pulled over his > girlfriend's car. > > Schultz, who lives in the 7900 block of Seabreeze Drive in Orchard > Beach in > Anne Arundel County and works with fiber optics for a local medical > company, has no connection to the bank robbery, officials said. > > At the time of the shooting, Schultz, who graduated from Northeast High > School in Pasadena in 2000, was a passenger in a Pontiac Grand Am > driven by > his girlfriend, 16-year-old Krissy Harkum. > > The couple was returning from a trip to Marley Station Mall in Glen > Burnie > when plainclothes federal agents in unmarked cars pulled them over near > Key > Bridge Discount Liquors at 7212 Fort Smallwood Road, according to > Harkum's > father, Joseph Harkum. Carrying weapons that his daughter, a junior > honor > > student at Northeast, described as "assault rifles or machine guns," the > agents ordered them to put their hands up, he said. > > That's when the agent on the passenger's side opened fire, striking > Schultz > once, he said. > > 'Yeah, I'm angry' > > "Here you got two of the sweetest kids on the Earth going to the mall > and > having Slurpees, getting shot through the car window. It's a mess. Yeah, > I'm angry," Harkum said from his Pasadena home. > > FBI spokesman Barry Maddox said agency policy prevented the immediate > release of the name of the agent who shot Schultz. > > He also declined to comment on whether the agent has been assigned to > desk > duty pending an investigation of the shooting. Nor have FBI officials > released information about how the shooting took place. > > "It's an ongoing investigation, and under most circumstances we do not > give > out too much information," Maddox said. > > Harkum said his daughter was struck by glass and blood but was > uninjured in > the shooting. Still, she remained shaken yesterday. > > 'She's not doing too good' > > "She had nightmares about it," Harkum said. > > "She's not doing too good. > > Emotionally, she's not OK," he said. > > Krissy Harkum remained at Schultz's bedside last night. Though he was > unable to speak, her father said, she told him that Schultz wrote her a > note asking, "Why did he shoot me?" > > Family members reached at Schultz's home referred reporters' calls to > attorney Joseph C. Asensio, who did not return repeated calls seeking > information last night. > > Yesterday afternoon, agents assigned to the FBI's shooting review group > based in Washington scoured the scene for the agency's internal > investigation. > > Anne Arundel County police officers continued their probe of the > shooting > yesterday and were setting up interviews with witnesses, said Officer > Charles Ravenell. > > Sun staff writer Lynn Anderson contributed to this article. > > -------------------- end forwarded message from > BOBWORN@aol.com -------------------- > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > 4-19! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath > no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and > buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus > Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Neil Dickey Subject: Re: Maryland Eagle Scout shot by FBI, in serious condition (fwd) Date: 04 Mar 2002 10:03:11 -0600 (CST) "Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc." wrote: >Send the major media questions: why did they not run this story when >they run every other gun shooting story? The Associated Press is carrying it. There is an article on www.nando.net, and our school newspaper -- believe it or not -- printed it as well. The opinions which I have expressed herein are entirely my own, unless other- wise noted. No-one else should be held responsible for what I think. | | | | D. N. Dickey | Virtuous motives, trammeled by inertia and | | Research Associate | timidity, are no match for armed and | | Northern Illinois Univ. | resolute wickedness. | | neil@earth.geol.niu.edu | - W. S. Churchill | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: SRA - Doc Brown: Dell Fiasco... (fwd) Date: 04 Mar 2002 22:16:42 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- FYI -------- Original Message -------- Friends, I thought you might like a copy of my latest column. This one is about the Dell Computer fiasco and the surprising benefits it brought to a very pro-gun computer retailer in Utah. This guy deserves our support. Feel free to reprint or forward this article in any way you like. It is also available on Newsmax.com at: http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml?a=2002/3/3/221301 Take Care, Mike Brown Vancouver, WA Dell Fiasco Shows Growth of Gun Rights Community Dell Computer Corporation has been riding high lately with an advertising campaign based on the slogan: "Dude, get a Dell!" Last week, Dell stumbled into a confrontation with American gun rights activists that illustrates interesting changes in the nature of that community. Millions of politically active gun owners are now linked via a sprawling and unorganized network of web sites and email distribution lists. Valid information and rumors both propagate at light speed. On February 26th, an email spread through the network like wildfire. Jack Weigand is a highly respected Pennsylvania gunsmith and President of the American Pistolsmiths Guild. He sent out a message describing his unpleasant encounter with Dell. He reported that Dell cancelled his order for a laptop computer, because the name of his business, Weigand Combat Handguns, suggested that he might be planning to use the computer for criminal purposes. They also rudely neglected to inform him of the cancellation. Stories like this are a serious hot-button issue for gun owners, who are sick and tired of being demonized for the last couple of decades. Connectivity, computer skills and hard feelings are a potent combination. Within hours, Dell was inundated with hostile emails and phone calls. Dell's damage control team moved quickly. An apology from Dell was forthcoming on February 28th, but not before angry net-gunnies were further incensed by the discovery that Dell was listed on an obscure web site that allows Dell customers to donate a portion of their payment to Handgun Control Inc. Dell's rather lame apology claimed that their cancel- lation of Mr. Weigand's laptop order was a misunder- standing motivated by their desire to comply with federal export laws designed to keep high technology from falling into the hands of terrorists. They offered Weigand a free computer, which he respectfully declined. There is no way to know how much this fiasco cost Dell, but it has provided an unexpected windfall for a flamboyant computer retailer in Utah. Dell Shanze, owner of Totally Awesome Computers (totallyawesome.com) received plenty of free publicity when his gun-owning customers posted their praise of his pro-gun policies. Millions of gun owners now know that Dell Shanze, affectionately and ironically known as "SUPERDELL," encourages his employees to carry their lawfully owned handguns on the job in his nine retail stores. In an email interview, Shanze recounted his background on gun matters. It seems that he once bought a shipping and packaging store that had been robbed three times. (No doubt he got it at a good price.) He carried a gun openly on his hip and never had another robbery attempt. Even though he no longer owns that store, it still remains unmolested by criminals. He explained that his philosophy is based on his own experience: "Good guys with guns are legendary in the minds of bad guys and just a rumor of an armed business owner will prevent the vast majority of any robbery attempts." None of his stores has ever been robbed. As if this weren't enough to earn the loyalty of computer-savvy gun owners, he also offers $100 off any computer purchase if the customer will bring in their handgun and concealed weapon permit. Out of state purchasers can simply fax their permit. Many gun owners are now saying: "Dude, get a SUPERDELL!" Corporate managers should take note and avoid repeating past errors. Any sign of prejudice against lawful gun owners now risks a confrontation with millions of net-wired activists. Dr. Michael S. Brown is an optometrist and member of Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws, www.dsgl.org. His email is: rkba2000@yahoo.com and he is not affiliated with any company mentioned in this column. "Dude, Don't Get a Dell" http://www.sierratimes.com/02/02/27/arjw022702.htm Jack Weigand http://www.jackweigand.com/Dell.html SUPERDELL http://www.totallyawesome.com/ Dell Computer Corp. http://www.dell.com ----------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Carry reform should be part of anti-terrorism effort, Isrealis say. (fwd) Date: 08 Mar 2002 11:24:10 -0800 (PST) -------------------- begin forwarded message from Mike Riddle -----------= --------- lis say. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DBEGIN FORWARDED MES= SAGE=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Israel OKs more gun carry permits in terror fight By Abraham Rabinovich THE WASHINGTON TIMES March 7, 2002 http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20020307-8478768.htm Israel OKs 60,000 more gun permits in terror fight Abraham Rabinovich THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published 3/7/2002 JERUSALEM =97 Sixty thousand additional gun permits are to be distributed to Israeli civilians as authorities loosen licensing restrictions to help fight a growing wave of terrorism. Armed civilians have played a significant role in bringing down terrorists during the Palestinian uprising, most recently during an attack this week by a Palestinian gunman at a Tel Aviv restaurant where a wedding party was under way. A 46-year-old civilian packing a pistol fatally shot the terrorist at close range after three persons had been killed and he had been wounded. When a radio reporter asked the man whether he was a member of the security forces, he said he was a shoe salesman. Police and Interior Ministry officials decided this week to make 60,000 more gun permits available to civilians, particularly reserve army officers and veterans of combat units. Guns also are being issued to firemen and municipal inspectors while they are on duty. Most Israelis are army veterans and are familiar with firearms. Already, 265,000 guns are in civilian hands, particularly in border areas and the occupied territories. With terror now striking the Israeli heartland almost daily, officials decided to make more guns available there as well. Police Inspector-General Shlomo Aharonisky cited a danger that some people would be too quick to use the weapons. "But," he said, "there's no question that weapons in the hands of the public have prevented acts of terror or stopped them while they were in progress. Chance passers-by have killed terrorists in the midst of gun attacks." New bylaws obliging large businesses to post armed guards outside their premises are soon to go into effect. The laws will apply to any business with more than 5,000 square feet of floor space as well as hotels, cinemas and other locations that draw large crowds. Police patrols are being stepped up around schools, including kindergartens. Adi Eldar, mayor of the city of Karmiel in Galilee, has asked all city officials to carry weapons during working hours. Mr. Eldar, head of the Union of Local Authorities, has called on all mayors in the country to do likewise. One-third of the nation's 6,000 bus drivers also carry personal weapons to work. Despite the uneasiness caused by the terror attacks, the public is not panicked. The dominant sentiment appears to be a desire to strike back at the Palestinians. That mood was captured in an article published yesterday in the newspaper Yediot Ahronot under the headline, "What to do [when facing] an armed terrorist." In the article, a retired police officer said civilians firing at armed terrorists might hit other civilians but argued that the risk had to be accepted. Another retired police officer assured a radio interviewer that an easing of licensing restrictions would not put weapons in the hands of criminals. "Every criminal who wants a weapon already has one," he said. -------------------- end forwarded message from Mike Riddle -------------= ------- -- --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-= 19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! --- -------------------- end forwarded message from Bill Vance --------------= ------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Here's an interesting explanation... (fwd) Date: 08 Mar 2002 11:37:57 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Jim Zoes --------------------- Julia Gorin has an *interesting* explanation as to why some men are rabidly anti-gun. Think "adequacy"... http://newsandopinion.com/julia/gorin.html The anti-gun male By: Julia Gorin "LET'S be honest. He's scared of the thing. That's understandable--so am I. But as a girl I have the luxury of being able to admit it. I don't have to masquerade squeamishness as grand principle-in the interest of mankind, no less... ...He has to say things like "One Taniqua Hall is one too many," as a New York radio talk show host did in referring to the 9-year old New York girl who was accidentally shot last year by her 12-year old cousin playing with his uncle's gun. But the truth is he desperately needs Taniqua Hall, just like he needs as many Columbines and Santees as can be mustered, until they spell an end to the Second Amendment. And not for the benefit of the masses, but for the benefit of his self-esteem. He often accuses men with guns of "compensating for something." The truth is quite the reverse. After all, how is he supposed to feel knowing there are men out there who aren't intimidated by the big bad inanimate villain? How is he to feel in the face of adolescent boys who have used the family gun effectively in defending the family from an armed intruder? So if he can't touch a gun, he doesn't want other men to be able to either. And to achieve his ends, he'll use the only weapon he knows how to manipulate: the law... ... The very ownership of a gun for defense of home and family implies some assertiveness and a certain self-reliance. But if our man kept a gun in the house, and an intruder broke in and started attacking his wife in front of him, he wouldn't be able to later say, "He had a knife--there was nothing I could do!" Passively watching in horror while already trying to make peace with the violent act, scheduling a therapy session and forgiving the perpetrator before the attack is even finished wouldn't be the option it otherwise is. No. Better to emasculate all men. Because let's face it: He's a lover, not a fighter. And he doesn't want to get shot in case he has an affair with your wife... ... In short, he is a man begging for subjugation. He longs for its promise of equality in helplessness. Because only when that strange, independent alpha breed of male is helpless along with him will he feel adequate. Indeed, his freedom lies in this other man's containment." ----------------------- end forwarded message from Jim Zoes --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: THE RED, WHITE AND BLUE Red Cross nixes 'God' (fwd) Date: 09 Mar 2002 22:31:10 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Rich Martin --------= --------------- THE RED, WHITE AND BLUE Red Cross nixes 'God'=20 from 9-11 program Song based on Declaration of=20 Independence also barred=20 Posted: March 9, 2002=20 1:00 a.m. Eastern=20 By Ron Strom =A9 2002 WorldNetDaily.com=20 The Orange County, Calif., chapter of the American Red=20 Cross has canceled the planned performance of a music=20 group at an upcoming event honoring the organization's=20 volunteers who helped at the World Trade Center after=20 the Sept. 11 attacks because the group planned to sing=20 songs that mention "prayer" and "God."=20 "Somebody has gone a little overboard" at the Red Cross,=20 said Cherilyn Bacon, director of First Act, a choral=20 group made up of middle school-aged students from a=20 local performing arts school.=20 The group was invited to perform "Heroes' Triology" and=20 to dedicate it to the 9-11 volunteers at tomorrow's=20 event. The arrangement includes three songs: "America=20 the Beautiful," "Prayer of the Children" and Lee=20 Greenwood's "God Bless the U.S.A."=20 First Act's rendition of "Declaration," a song that=20 includes the opening lines from the Declaration of=20 Independence, was also deemed inappropriate. Bacon says=20 Patricia Johnson, a representative of the American Red=20 Cross in Orange County, told her the Declaration is "a=20 political document that =85 may offend" some.=20 Lynn Howse, public affairs director in the Orange County=20 Red Cross office, defended her organization's decision=20 on the Fox News Channel yesterday.=20 "We need to remain a neutral organization," she said.=20 Howse said another group from the same school will=20 perform in place of First Act and that the program will=20 still include patriotic numbers.=20 While there have been issues raised by public school=20 districts throughout the U.S. about the religious=20 content of songs students perform, the charter school=20 First Act represents has no problem with its repertoire.=20 As a California charter school, it receives some private=20 funding.=20 "The school is totally supportive," Bacon told=20 WorldNetDaily. She refused to divulge the name of the=20 school, citing the desire of administrators not to be=20 drawn into the controversy.=20 Bacon mentioned that her group has received rave reviews=20 for its moving rendition of "Heroes' Trilogy," which was=20 arranged specifically to commemorate Sept. 11.=20 "The kids have performed these songs for a wide variety=20 of organizations, from the Democrat and Republican=20 Parties to the Santa Ana Interfaith Council," she said=20 in a statement. "Without fail, the performance has=20 brought tears and instant standing ovations. From Muslim=20 to Hare Krishna to Christian to Jew =85 there has been=20 unanimous applause."=20 Cindy Boragno, mother of one of the performers, was=20 stunned by the Red Cross' action.=20 "What rot! This is outrageous," she said. "To think that=20 the word 'God' cannot be used in a song."=20 Student Malorie Bryant expressed disappointment at the=20 withdrawal of the group's invitation.=20 "We were so excited to finally be able to perform our=20 special 'Heroes' tribute to the real heroes themselves,"=20 she said.=20 Surmised Bacon, "By taking this 'neutral' position, [the=20 Red Cross] has just offended most of America."=20 When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people t= o dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and = to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to w= hich the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to = the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which im= pel them to the separation.=20 Read it http://jollyroger.com/beaconway/declaration.html Cut out the middlemen.=20 Send your donation to: =20 Boys Scouts of America National HQ 1329 Walnut Hill Ln. Irving, TX 75162 http://www.SaveOurScouts.com ----------------------- end forwarded message from Rich Martin ----------= ------------- -- --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-= 19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! --- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: [ParanoidTimes] WHOSE COUNTRY IS THIS? (fwd) Date: 19 Mar 2002 09:41:52 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from william king ----------------------- ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:19 AM WHOSE COUNTRY IS THIS? RIGHT NOW, IT'S THEIRS! By: Dorothy Anne Seese Published in the March 25, 2002 issue of Ether Zone Those of us over fifty, perhaps many over forty, were brought up to believe that the United States is a nation "of the people, by the people and for the people" and that we, the people, elect representatives to enact or nullify legislation in accordance with the wishes and needs of the people, in conformity with the Constitution and its Bill of Rights. Someone forgot to tell our elected representatives that when they go to Washington, D.C., their job is to represent the people and not their own agenda, and surely not the globalist agenda or the elitist agenda. We, the people, are still here, silent as we are at times. These so-called bureaucrats take an oath on the Bible to uphold the Constitution and then disregard both the Bible and the Constitution by their bills and amendments to bills. If it weren't for numerous watchdog groups around the nation, we might all be disenfranchised by now, with a dynastic monarchy and hereditary nobility in Washington. At times, it seems as if we're getting closer to it all the time. Or we may just be getting closer to the totalitarian rule of a banana republic on the order of Fidel Castro's little island of nightmares. Federalized education is close to becoming the total captivity of educational standards and rights over the children of this nation's citizens. That includes/excludes religion or any religious expression, or, as the first amendment puts it "the free exercise thereof." Children in American schools are not permitted to freely exercise their religious beliefs, particularly if they are Christians. This is in direct contravention of the first amendment, and "wall of separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution nor was it ever intended to separate religious and secular thought. Our founding documents support that without doubt, as do the inscriptions on the Supreme Court Building and various monuments to early leaders in Washington D.C. Federalized education also takes away the rights of states and their counties, under the tenth amendment, to attend to the education of the children of free citizens and legal immigrants. (The federal government has now rewarded once again the illegal act of entering this nation and claiming "rights" of citizens, all to appease the growing numbers of such illegals.) Whose nation is this? It once belonged to the people. It obviously doesn't belong to "we the people" any longer or our representatives would have more respect for what we, the people, want rather than what communist and socialist nations want, or what banana republics desire. If we are no longer the United States of America, if the states no longer have any sovereignty, if the federal government is going to act like the centralized government of regional, powerless "districts" then let's rename the country "THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF AMERICA" and be done with it. There's no use being hypocritical. Either we are a free people or we are not. Either we have a valid Constitution or we do not. Right now, it looks like we have a ruling class of bureaucrats and agenda- carriers who run this nation without any regard to what the people want. Okay, then let's either get the United States back to a federal system of limited central government with specific functions, and put the tenth amendment back into full force and effect, or change the name of the country. If we're going to behave like a banana republic, let's have a name that fits a banana republic. Representatives in the House and Senate seem more afraid of the power of the ACLU and other non-governmental organizations than the voice of the people. Oaths of office are taken lightly or blithely disregarded in toto. Obviously, our elected representatives don't believe that we, the people, are the voice of the nation. They think they are. Or worse, they think the well- heeled NGO's and special interest groups are. They may even think foreign nations need to have a say in the way things are run in the USA. Well, are we the USA? If we are, it's time our elected and appointed bureaucrats in government learned this lesson, any which way it has to be taught. Recall them. Vote them out of office. Deluge them with calls, mail, email and petitions. I have never supported armed revolt. Nor do I believe insurrection is necessary if the people will get together and demand that D.C. stay out of the people's business and do their work in Washington of running the federal part of the government according to the Constitution. Education is not part of the federal government's business. Children do not belong to the state, they belong to parents. Land belongs to the people, not the ignatz owls or bugs. But if the people want to be sheeple then they will be treated like s heep ... fleeced and killed dead. Whose country is it? Right now, it's theirs. If it's still ours, it's about time we took it back! We may not have very much time left in which to take it back ... at least not in a peaceful way, not in the way our founding fathers desired. It seems to boil down to this: Do we have the nation we think? Or do we have the nation that major media and their backers are creating for us, to enslave us, and hand us over to the one world order? And yes, even with major media, the people have a vote. Turn the television OFF. That's a vote of no-confidence. In fact, before television, we had a much better nation! http://etherzone.com/2002/sees032502.shtml ----------------------- end forwarded message from william king ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Letter to the Bank (fwd) Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:15:42 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from CALPatton@aol.com ----------------------- Subj: Letter to the Bank > Subject: The Bank > > > Letter to a Bank - Below is an actual letter sent to a Bank in the United > States. The Bank Manager thought it amusing enough to have it published > in the New York Times. > > Dear Sir: > > > > I am writing to thank you for bouncing my check with which I > > > endeavored to pay my plumber last month. By my calculations some three > > > nanoseconds must have elapsed between his presenting the check and the > > > arrival in my account of the funds needed to honor it. I refer, of > course, > > > to the automatic monthly deposit of my entire salary, and arrangement > which, > I admit, has only been in place for eight years. > > You are to be commended for seizing that brief window of > > > opportunity, and also for debiting my account by $50 by way of penalty > > > for the inconvenience I caused to your bank. My thankfulness springs > > > from the manner in which this incident has caused me to rethink my > > > errant financial ways. You have set me on the path of fiscal > > > righteousness. No more will our relationship be blighted by these > > > unpleasant incidents, for I am restructuring my affairs in 2002, > taking as my model the procedures, attitudes and conduct of your very > bank. > > I can think of no greater compliment and I know you will be > > > excited and proud to hear it. To this end, please be advised of the > > > following changes. I have noticed that whereas I personally attend to > > > your telephone calls and letters, when I try to contact you, I am > > > confronted by the impersonal, ever-changing, pre-recorded, faceless > > > entity which your bank has become. From now on I, like you, choose only > to deal with a flesh-and-blood person. > My mortgage and loan repayments will, therefore and hereafter, > no longer be automatic, but will arrive at your bank, by check, > > > addressed personally and confidentially to an employee at your > > > branch whom you must nominate. You will be aware that it is an offense > under the Postal Act for any other person to open such an envelope. Please find attached an Application Contact Status which I > require your chosen employee to complete. I am sorry it runs to eight > > > pages, but in order that I know as much about him or her as your bank > > > knows about me, there is no alternative. Please note that all copies of > > > > his or her medical history must be countersigned by a Notary Public, > > > and the mandatory details of his/her financial situation (income, > debts, assets and liabilities)must be accompanied by documented proof. > > In due course I will issue your employee with a PIN number which > > > he/she must quote in dealings with me. I regret that it cannot be > > > shorter than 28 digits but, again, I have modeled it on the number of > > > button presses required to access my account balance on your phone > bank service. > > As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Let me level > the playing field even further by introducing you to my new telephone > system, which you will notice, is very much like yours. > > > My Authorized Contact at your bank, the only person with whom I will > > > have any dealings, may call me at any time and will be answered by an > > > automated voice service: Press buttons as follows: > > 1. To make an appointment to see me. > > > 2. To query a missing payment. > > > 3. To transfer the call to my living room in case I am there. > > > 4. To transfer the call to my bedroom in case I am sleeping. > > > 5. To transfer the call to my toilet in case I am attending to nature. > > > > 6. To transfer the call to my mobile phone if I am not at home. > > > 7. To leave a message on my computer, a password to access my > > > computer is required. Password will be communicated at a > > > later date to the Authorized Contact. > > > 8. To return to the main menu and to listen to options 1 through > 7. > 9. To make a general complaint or inquiry. The contact will then > > > be put on hold, pending the attention of my automated answering > service. > While this may on occasion involve a lengthy wait, uplifting > music will > play for the duration of the call. This month I've chosen a refrain from > "The Best of Woodie Guthrie: > > "Oh, the banks are made of marble, With a guard at every door, And the > > > vaults are filled with silver, that the miners sweated for." > > > > > > On a more serious note, we come to the matter of cost. As your bank has > > > > often pointed out, the ongoing drive for greater efficiency comes at a > >cost > > > which you have always been quick to pass on to me. > > > > > > Let me repay your kindness by passing some costs back. First, there is > a > > > matter of advertising material you send me. This I will read for a > > > fee of $20 per page. Inquiries from the Authorized Contact will be > billed > > > at $5 per minute of my time spent in response. Any debits to my > account, as, for example, in the matter of the penalty for the dishonored > check, will be > > > passed back to you. My new phone service runs at 75 cents a minute. You > > will be well advised to keep your inquiries brief and to the point. > > > > Regrettably, but again following your example, I must also levy an > > > establishment fee to cover the setting up of this new arrangement. > > > > > > May I wish you a happy, if ever-so-slightly less prosperous, New Year? > > > Your Humble Client, > > (Name Withheld) ----------------------- end forwarded message from CALPatton@aol.com ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: Demand letter for Senator Cantwell (fwd) Date: 20 Mar 2002 15:10:53 -0800 (PST) And how about your own senators.....? --------------------- begin forwarded message from Center For Reclaiming America --------------------- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * S P E C I A L G R A S S R O O T S A L E R T PLEASE FORWARD TO ALL PRO-FAMILY, PRO-LIFE FRIENDS. 3/20/02 Dear Bill, I need your help to issue a "Demand Letter" to your two Washington senators, as well as other key Senate leaders. Allow me to explain. As you may know, the Senate Judiciary Committee rejected President Bush's Appeals Court nominee, Judge Charles Pickering, by a 10-9 party-line vote. The smear campaign by pro-abortion groups like NARAL attacking Judge Pickering's character has worked. Judge Pickering has been "tarred and feathered" with false accusations and distortions -- all because he doesn't fit their anti-virtue, pro-abortion mold. Now, Pickering's opponents expect us to give up--to fold up our tents and quit the fight. Why? Because too often in the past, that is precisely what we have done! If we fail to take a stand now, EVERY pro-life court nominee President Bush sends to the Senate will be rejected. Forget recovering from eight years of Clinton appointments. Forget seeing sanity restored at the Supreme Court. That is why the CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA is issuing this SPECIAL GRASSROOTS ALERT to rally tens upon hundreds of thousands of pro-family citizens to take a stand right now against this smear campaign. AND MAKE NO MISTAKE, THIS IS A SMEAR CAMPAIGN! * * * * * ACTION ITEM WE ARE CALLING ON PRO-FAMILY CITIZENS TO CONTACT THE SENATE AND DEMAND A FULL FLOOR VOTE ON JUDGE PICKERING'S NOMINATION. Last week, we "asked" our leaders to do the right thing. I'm grateful that so many friends helped: **YOU delivered nearly 19,000 faxes to the Senate; **YOU sent over 6,000 personal e-mails to Congress; **YOU joined together to push us over 102,000 petitions; **YOU flooded the Capitol Hill switchboard with calls. Now, we must step up the pressure another notch. The time of asking is over; we must DEMAND that President Bush's request for a full floor vote be honored. Nothing less than a full floor vote will do and we are asking that the Senators who support Judge Pickering's nomination FILIBUSTER until that full floor vote takes place. * * * * *THREE WAYS TO ISSUE THIS CITIZEN DEMAND #1 -- SEND A FAX-FIRE TO THE SENATE We have arranged to deliver personalized faxes to your two Washington senators, and 16 other swing vote senators whom we have identified as key senators on this issue. That's 18 DEMAND faxes delivered to the Senate for just $10. Click below to see your personalized fax: Click here #2 -- ENCOURAGE YOUR FRIENDS & FAMILY TO STAND WITH YOU AND SIGN OUR "SHAKE THE NATION" PETITION: This Thursday our team will be in the nation's capital delivering petitions to urge our leaders to confirm pro-life judges and justices. Already, over 100,000 people have signed. We will deliver every petition that arrives by MIDNIGHT WEDNESDAY. Click below: http://www.grassfire.net/73.asp?PID=1698839&P=9 (AOL Users click the line below, all others use the above link: ) Click here #3 -- CALL AND E-MAIL YOUR SENATORS Use our "Contact Congress" feature to call and e-mail your senators and DEMAND that Judge Pickering's nomination be given a full floor vote. Click below: Click here There is an effort underway in the Senate to bring Judge Pickering's nomination to a floor vote. Please visit our website for the latest update: Click here We must move quickly. If our Senate leaders do not see momentum building quickly and dramatically in support of Judge Pickering, their smear campaign will have worked, and we will have little or no hope of winning any upcoming court nominations. That's why I need your help to do one more thing. We need to rally additional support. So I'm asking you to alert your entire e-mail address book. Please help. Thank you and may God bless you. Janet Folger National Director CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + CITIZEN DEMAND #1 + + + + + + + + + + + FAX-FIRE SENATE LEADERS DEMANDING A FULL FLOOR VOTE FOR JUDGE PICKERING'S NOMINATION: Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + CITIZEN DEMAND #2 + + + + + + + + + + + SIGN THE PETITION SUPPORTING PRO-LIFE JUDGES. PETITIONS DELIVERED THIS WEEK! http://www.grassfire.net/73.asp?PID=1698839&P=9 (AOL Users click the line below, all others use the above link: ) Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + CITIZEN DEMAND #3 + + + + + + + + + + + E-MAIL YOUR SENATORS AND DEMAND A FULL FLOOR VOTE FOR JUDGE PICKERING: Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + LATEST NEWS UPDATES ON THE PICKERING ATTACKS: Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Mr. Bill Vance's PERSONAL IMPACT: Total number of people impacted: 10 Click here for a full report: http://grassfire.net/73/impact.asp?CID=73&RID=1698839&P=9 (AOL Users click the line below, all others use the above link: ) Click here + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + The CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA, established by Dr. D. James Kennedy, is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles on which our country was founded. The CENTER provides non-partisan, non-denominational information, training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers. Questions? cfra@crministries.org --------------------- end forwarded message from Center For Reclaiming America --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: PARAMETERS, US Army War College Quarterly - Spring 2002 (fwd) Date: 24 Mar 2002 15:39:22 -0800 (PST) You might find some of this info interesting..... Bill PARAMETERS, US Army War College Quarterly - Spring 2002, Vol. XXXII, No. 1 http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/02spring/contents.htm -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: GLOCK OWNERS ALERT (fwd) Date: 27 Mar 2002 09:31:50 -0800 (PST) I don't own a Glock, but those of you who do might be interested..... Bill ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Carl F. Worden ----------------------- Fellow Glock packers: LaPrade Glock Accessories has apparently found a chink in the ban on new magazines capable of carrying more than ten rounds. As you know, the "pre-ban" mags for the 9mm carried 15 or 17 rounds, and the mags for the .40 SW and .357 SIG carried up to 13 and 15 rounds, depending on model. LaPrade has secured a letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms that allows replacement mag bodies to be sold. After receiving your replacement magazine body, you just order replacement springs from Wolfe Springs, and the followers used in the pre-ban and post ban magazines should be interchangeable. Mine all worked without a hitch. Voila!, you have a nice, new high capacity magazine -- only better: These are high quality magazine bodies and they are drop-free! I am particularly fond of my Glock model 32 in .357 SIG. With a high-cap magazine, you've got the ballistic equivalent of the .357 Magnum 125 grain hollowpoint, which holds the renowned world record for one-shot stops on violent aggressors, only instead of just six rounds, you've got 13 in the magazine and one ready to go in the pipe. That, plus the fact the Glock absorbs felt recoil substantially, allowing the shooter to recover much faster for follow-up shots that so far have proven unnecessary. The street performance of the .357 SIG/125 grain hollowpoint is proving awesome for the police departments and government agencies that adopted it. One shot, even those striking outside the vitals, is incapacitating to the assailants immediately. The bottle neck design of the cartridge reduces the chance for feeding problems even in a dirty gun. I haven't had a single feeding problem in over 3,000 rounds fired so far, and most of those rounds are reloaded on a Dillon 5500B. Initial concerns about overpenetration in gelatin tests have not occurred on the street. The best bullet performance so far is from the Gold Dot hollowpoint, which I reload, and in every case reported so far, the fully mushroomed slug was recovered just under the skin on the opposite side, or in the clothing of the assailant. The accuracy of the .357 SIG is something that took everyone by surprise. It is a tack-driver second to none. I like to paint 2" Styrofoam balls red and throw them out about 20 yards at the range. I then go about making that little ball dance until I finally center-punch it and it blows apart. If you want to learn instinctive shooting with a pistol, do that for about 2,000 rounds from various combat shooting positions. You can get so fast and effective it dazzles you. Anyway, you can contact La Prade by FAX at (423) 733-2073, or by writing to: La Prade Route 10, Box 240A-1GM Tazewell, TN 37879 Carl F. Worden ----------------------- end forwarded message from Carl F. Worden ----------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc. Subject: Re: GLOCK OWNERS ALERT (fwd) Date: 27 Mar 2002 12:32:44 -0500 Hi Be careful -- you can buy replacement mag bodies but you shouldn't manufacture new magazines with them. This is asking for trouble Chad On Wednesday, March 27, 2002, at 12:31 , Bill Vance wrote: > I don't own a Glock, but those of you who do might be interested..... > > Bill > > ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Carl F. > Worden ----------------------- > > From: "Carl F. Worden" > Subject: GLOCK OWNERS ALERT > Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:35:11 -0800 > > Fellow Glock packers: > > LaPrade Glock Accessories has apparently found a chink in the ban on new > magazines capable of carrying more than ten rounds. As you know, the > "pre-ban" mags for the 9mm carried 15 or 17 rounds, and the mags for the > .40 SW and .357 SIG carried up to 13 and 15 rounds, depending on model. > > LaPrade has secured a letter from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and > Firearms that allows replacement mag bodies to be sold. After receiving > your replacement magazine body, you just order replacement springs from > Wolfe Springs, and the followers used in the pre-ban and post ban > magazines should be interchangeable. Mine all worked without a hitch. > Voila!, you have a nice, new high capacity magazine -- only better: > These are high quality magazine bodies and they are drop-free! > > I am particularly fond of my Glock model 32 in .357 SIG. With a > high-cap magazine, you've got the ballistic equivalent of the .357 > Magnum 125 grain hollowpoint, which holds the renowned world record for > one-shot stops on violent aggressors, only instead of just six rounds, > you've got 13 in the magazine and one ready to go in the pipe. That, > plus the fact the Glock absorbs felt recoil substantially, allowing the > shooter to recover much faster for follow-up shots that so far have > proven unnecessary. > > The street performance of the .357 SIG/125 grain hollowpoint is proving > awesome for the police departments and government agencies that adopted > it. One shot, even those striking outside the vitals, is incapacitating > to the assailants immediately. The bottle neck design of the cartridge > reduces the chance for feeding problems even in a dirty gun. I haven't > had a single feeding problem in over 3,000 rounds fired so far, and most > of those rounds are reloaded on a Dillon 5500B. > > Initial concerns about overpenetration in gelatin tests have not > occurred on the street. The best bullet performance so far is from the > Gold Dot hollowpoint, which I reload, and in every case reported so far, > the fully mushroomed slug was recovered just under the skin on the > opposite side, or in the clothing of the assailant. > > The accuracy of the .357 SIG is something that took everyone by > surprise. It is a tack-driver second to none. I like to paint 2" > Styrofoam balls red and throw them out about 20 yards at the range. I > then go about making that little ball dance until I finally center-punch > it and it blows apart. If you want to learn instinctive shooting with a > pistol, do that for about 2,000 rounds from various combat shooting > positions. You can get so fast and effective it dazzles you. > > Anyway, you can contact La Prade by FAX at (423) 733-2073, or by writing > to: > > La Prade > Route 10, Box 240A-1GM > Tazewell, TN 37879 > > Carl F. Worden > > ----------------------- end forwarded message from Carl F. > Worden ----------------------- > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > 4-19! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath > no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and > buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus > Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ""Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc and Shire.Net LLC"" Subject: handloading forums sponsored by your list dad Date: 30 Mar 2002 22:25:35 -0500 (EST) Hi All Just a plug for the new forums I put up for handloading/reloading . The pretty homepage and graphiccal headers are still under construction, but the forums themselves are up, and they just went online today for live use (so go join and start posting so that there is some content :-) www.handloaders.com (the home page is not much to write home about, yet, but click on the "forums" link and you're there) If the above link gets you to the eguns.com webpage instead, click on the forums link there to get to the home page as shown above, by IP number. It takes a day or two for the DNS caches around the world to notice the changeover for handloaders.com to its new address. Thanks Chad roc sponsor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Vance Subject: USDA Comment Period (fwd) Date: 30 Mar 2002 20:07:44 -0800 (PST) Just when you thought you were safe, here come the weed police to destroy your garden..... ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Steve Moser ----------------------- J. L. HUDSON, SEEDSMAN, STAR ROUTE 2, BOX 337, LA HONDA, CALIFORNIA 94020 USA USDA Plans Severe Gardening Restrictions Direct quotes from USDA Action Plan a.. "Clean list" - Everything not on government approved list banned.=20 b.. Penalties - $1000 for home gardeners, up to $250,000 for nurseries.= =20 c.. Interstate movement of seeds - Prohibited without permit and inspecti= on.=20 Send objections to the USDA Write your representative (Sample letter) What President Bush says Your help is needed. The USDA is now accepting public comments on their Dra= ft Action Plan for the Noxious Weeds Program, which includes the "clean lis= t" or "white list" proposal. They are now going beyond the clean list and a= re stating that they intend to require permits and inspections for ALL seed= s and plants moving interstate =96 this will effectively shut down many pop= ular seed exchanges like the North American Rock Garden Society exchange an= d the Seed Saver=92s Exchange. These exchanges have been hailed as importan= t means of preserving biodiversity. How many home seed savers will be willi= ng to get appropriate licenses and inspections when they cost a minimum of = $100 (for a nursery stock or seed license here in California). Penalties of= up to $250,000 are proposed with a minimum fine of $1000 even for home gar= deners. Please link to this page. Contact Alan.V.Tasker@usda.gov and state you are opposed to the "clean list= " and any permit or inspection requirements for interstate movement of seed= s and plants. State that the Draft Action Plan for the Noxious Weeds Progra= m is unacceptable must be halted, additional time for public comment allowe= d, and no new restrictions on the free flow of any seeds and plants that ar= e not listed noxious weeds be put in place. Send 4 copies of your comments to: Docket No. 01-034-1 Regulatory Analysis and Development PPD, APHIS Suite 3C03 4700 River Road, Unit 118 Riverdale, MD 20737-1238 This is necessary so that your e-mails will not simply be deleted. Last year, the USDA requested comments on its clean list proposal - they re= ceived an overwhelming response - 8 to 1 against, yet they are ignoring the= clear will of the American people. The government tried to impose a clean = list policy three times during the 1970s, and had to back down each time du= e to negative response from biologists. Apparently, "no" is not an acceptab= le response. The public comment period ends March 29th, but it is important to keep up p= ressure even after this date, particularly by writing your representatives.= The USDA is clearly out of touch with the American people. They just got th= rough the huge furor when they tried to impose "Organic Rules" which allowe= d irradiation and toxic sewage sludge use. They have also instituted new ph= ytosanitary certificate requirements which they admit are designed to preve= nt you from ordering from overseas. Please object to the new phytosanitary = rules in your letter, too. Write to your representatives and demand that the out-of-control USDA be re= ined in. These proposals fundamentally change the regulations on the importation and= distribution of plants. Currently, you may import, possess and distribute = all plants except a few known harmful species that are banned =96 a "blackl= ist" approach in which everything is permitted except what is prohibited. T= he new Clean List (or white list) policy is the opposite =96 everything is = prohibited except what is on a government-approved "clean list" of species = that the USDA permits. This will effectively ban 99% of the species on the = planet. The clean list or white list has been called an internet hoax, and = the agencies involved have actually sent out letters denying they have such= plans =96 go to their website and read for yourself what they say: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/weeds/ See Weed Action Plan - 4th blue box down on the right. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/weeds/weedsjan2002-pub.pdf (Note that this is= a pdf file and takes a long time to load - you will see a blank page for a= while after clicking here) ----- THE FOLLOWING ARE DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE PROPOSAL Draft Action Plan for the Noxious Weeds Program Page 5: Interstate movement: "2) Issue regulations that require that any plant, plant product, biologica= l control organism, noxious weed, article, or means of conveyance imported,= entered, to be exported, or moved in interstate commerce be accompanied by= a permit and a certification of inspection and be subject to remedial meas= ures necessary to prevent the spread of plant pests or noxious weeds=85" NOTE: "Any plant or plant product" will include dried medicinal herbs, as w= ell as clean seeds. Page 9: "RECOMMENDED REGULATORY CHANGES" "Emergency Action (recommended regulatory change) The PPA authorizes the Secretary of Agriculture to hold, seize, quarantine,= treat, apply other remedial measures to, destroy, or otherwise dispose of = any plant, plant pest, noxious weed, biological control organism, plant pro= duct, article, or means of conveyance moving into or through the United Sta= tes, or interstate, or moved into or through the United States, or intersta= te, that the Secretary has reason to believe is a plant pest or noxious wee= d, is infested with a plant pest or noxious weed, or is in violation of the= PPA. This authority includes action on the progeny of any plant, biologica= l control organism, plant product, plant pests, or noxious weed. Further, t= he Secretary may use extraordinary emergency action for weeds threatening p= lants or plant products, if those weeds are new to or not known to be widel= y prevalent in or distributed within and throughout the United States." Page 14: "Civil Penalties (recommended program change) The PPA authorizes the Secretary of Agriculture to hold, seize, quarantine,= treat, apply other remedial measures to, destroy, or otherwise dispose of = any plant, plant pest, noxious weed, biological control organism, plant pro= duct, article, or means of conveyance moving into or through the United Sta= tes, or interstate, or moved into or through the United States, or intersta= te, that the Secretary has reason to believe is a plant pest or noxious wee= d, is infested with a plant pest or noxious weed, or is in violation of the= PPA. This authority includes action on the progeny of any plant, biologica= l control organism, plant product, plant pests, or noxious weed. If a plant= , plant pest, noxious weed, biological control organism, plant product, art= icle, or means of conveyance is in violation of the PPA, the Secretary may = issue civil penalties ranging from $1,000 for an initial violation by an in= dividual moving regulated articles not for monetary gain, to $250,000 per v= iolation. The Safeguarding Report recognizes that the PPA civil penalty fee= structure provides an effective deterrent against violations of the regula= tions. APHIS plans to use our new authority under the PPA to issue civil pe= nalties for noncompliance with the regulations." NOTE: "An individual moving articles not for monetary gain" means home gard= eners. Page 19: "Risk Assessment for Imported Nursery Stock (Propagative Material) Current regulations do not mandate a screening process for the invasive pot= ential of plants imported for propagation. Under 7 CFR 319.37, nursery stoc= k is admissible unless it is on a regulated list. Plants on the regulated l= ists are prohibited either because they are Federal noxious weeds or becaus= e they are associated with certain plant diseases or other plant pests. The= Safeguarding Review recommends adopting a modified "clean list approach" f= or propagative material, specifying what is permissible, rather than listin= g regulated plants. Similarly, the draft Invasive Species Management Plan r= ecommends development of risk analysis and screening system for evaluating = first time intentional introductions of non-native species before entry is = allowed. The PPA states that the Secretary of Agriculture may prohibit or restrict t= he importation, entry, exportation, or movement in interstate commerce of a= ny plant, plant product, biological control organism, noxious weed, article= , or means of conveyance to prevent the introduction into the United States= or dissemination within the United States of a plant pest or noxious weed.= The PPA further provides the authority for the Secretary of Agriculture to= initiate a screening process to evaluate proposed new introductions of non= -native plants. Risk assessment for propagative material has two weed-relat= ed components: evaluation of the commodity as a potential weed and evaluati= on of the commodity=92s potential to provide a pathway for weeds." NOTE: "...specifying what is permissible, rather than listing regulated pla= nts" means that everything that is not on the government-approved list will= be prohibited. Currently, they list only what is prohibited - "regulated p= lants." Page 20: "Proposed Strategies to Achieve the Goal: 1. Risk assessment: Use risk assessment processes that follow international= standards to support identification of weed species to be regulated, provi= de classification of undesirable plant species, identify potential pathways= , and determine appropriate regulatory action. 3. Weediness Screening: Explore revision of the nursery stock regulations (= 7 CFR 319.37) to require risk assessment before a commodity is approved for= entry." NOTE: "Weediness Screening" and "risk assessment before a commodity is appr= oved for entry" means that all species will be denied entry (import) until = the government has determined that they are approved. ----- How to Contact Your Members of Congress in Washington, DC Contact information and a search by state for Senators and Members of= the House of Representatives is as follows: Subject: Carrying legally in the post office (fwd) Date: 31 Mar 2002 17:50:58 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Charles Riggs ------= --------------- Excellent discussion of the law regarding legality of the carry of a= =20 firearm in a post office by a knowledgeable attorney. Worth reading,=20 printing out and handing out to the postmasters of this nation - Charles. Original link from the keepandbeararms.com web page - http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-rtc-usps.html Concealed Carry in the Post Office by Robert P. Firriolo, Esq. The normally quiescent Rob Firriolo, TGZ's resident consigliere, is=20 steamed! After a thread about this subject on one of the Internet's=20 larger gun forums was locked down by the Moderator who had posted a=20 demonstrably erroneous conclusory statement, Rob filed this illuminating=20 brief to straighten out a common misperception. It is no secret that lots of wrong information on firearms laws is=20 propagated by the Internet and by word of mouth. In my experience, one of= =20 the most prevalent myths is that it is a federal offense to carry a=20 firearm in a United States Post Office even if you have a permit or=20 license to carry. As a general proposition, this is simply not the case.=20 While state law or carry permit restrictions may prohibit carry in a Post= =20 Office, I have yet to locate a federal law that actually criminalizes=20 such conduct where state law and permit regulations allow it. The statute tossed out in support of the proposition that carry in a=20 post office is illegal is 18 U.S.C. =A7 930. This statute is also cited i= n=20 posters typically displayed in federal facilities giving notice that=20 carrying firearms in the facility is a crime. The posters do not even=20 mention the exception to the law that applies to those private citizens=20 who lawfully carry handguns. Here are the relevant sections of the law: Title 18, United State Code, Sec. 930. - Possession of firearms and=20 dangerous weapons in Federal facilities a. Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses=20 or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal=20 facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so,=20 shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or=20 both. d. Subsection (a) shall not apply to - 3. the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons=20 in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. In order to fall within the exception to the law, two conditions have=20 to be met. First, one has to be engaged in the =B3lawful carrying of=20 firearms.=B2 This means you cannot be a =B3prohibited person=B2 such as a= =20 convicted felon, a fugitive from justice, or fall within any of the other= =20 categories that would prohibit one from lawfully purchasing or owning a=20 firearm under federal law. It also means that it must be legal for you to carry the firearm under=20 any applicable federal, state, and local laws. If, for example, it is=20 illegal under state law to carry a firearm in a post office, the=20 exception in section (d) (3) of 18 U.S.C. =A7 930 offers you no protectio= n.=20 The same is true about any local regulations or restrictions on the terms= =20 of your carry permit. In other words, if state or local law, or the terms= =20 of your carry permit, prohibit carry in a post office, then such carry is= =20 not =B3lawful,=B2 and the exception to the ban on carrying in federal=20 facilities does not apply to you. The second condition that has to be met for one to fall within the=20 exception to the ban on carrying a firearm in a federal facility is that=20 one must be carrying in the facility =B3incident to hunting or other lawf= ul=20 purposes.=B2 One cannot be in the facility with intent to commit a crime,= =20 or while committing a crime, and fall within the exception. A simple test of whether one may legally carry in a post office could=20 involve answering four questions: 1. Is it illegal for me to carry a handgun on the street outside the=20 post office? 2. Is there a state or local law prohibiting carry in a post office? 3. Am I violating the terms of my CCW permit by carrying inside a=20 post office? 4. Am I going to commit a crime or engage in some unlawful activity=20 once inside the facility? If one answers =B3no=B2 to all four questions, it seems that one falls=20 within the exception to the federal ban on carrying in a federal=20 facility. The answer to the first three questions seeks to resolve=20 whether one is engaged in the =B3lawful carrying=B2 of a firearm. The ans= wer=20 to the final question seeks to resolve whether one is carrying =B3inciden= t=20 to =8A lawful purposes.=B2 It is important to note that the term =B3Federal facility=B2 does not=20 include a federal court facility. Even with a valid concealed weapon or=20 handgun license, it is a federal offense to bring a firearm into a=20 federal court facility. Under this statue, the only persons who may=20 lawfully carry in a federal court facility are federal, state, or local=20 law enforcement officers on official duty, or a Federal official or a=20 member of the Armed Forces if authorized to possess the firearm. Anyone with verifiable information about a CCW permit holder who was=20 prosecuted for violation of 18 U.S.C. =A7 930 (or any other federal law),= =20 and who was also not allegedly committing, or attempting to commit, a=20 crime (other than illegal firearm possession), should contact The Gun=20 Zone or the author and provide details. Addendum The Code of Federal Regulations contains the following regulation=20 (excerpted in pertinent part; full text from link): 39 C.F.R. 232.1 Conduct on Postal Property: (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may= =20 carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either=20 openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for=20 official purposes. However, looking further down the regulation, we see the following: (p) Penalties and other law. (2) Whoever shall be found guilty of violating the rules and =20 regulations in this section while on property under the charge and=20 control of the Postal Service is subject to fine of not more than $50 or=20 imprisonment of not more than 30 days, or both. Nothing contained in=20 these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other=20 Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations=20 applicable to any area in which the property is situated. Regulations in the CFR have to be based on laws in the United States=20 Code, must be consistent with them, and cannot superceded them. Section=20 (p)(2) of the 39 CFR 232.1 recognizes this fact. That is, the CFR cannot= =20 abrogate applicable Federal law. In so far as firearms are concerned, 18 U.S.C. =A7 930 (a) is essential= ly=20 the same as 39 CFR 232.1 (l), except that the regulations do not contain=20 the exception for lawful concealed carry contained in 18 U.S.C. =A7 930 (= d)=20 (3). But by its own terms, the regulations do not override the United=20 States Code ("Federal law"), which does allows carrying a firearm in=20 federal facility. In other words, the CFR cannot trump the U.S.C., and the U.S.C. allows=20 lawful concealed carry in a federal facility. Disclaimer: The discussion above is not legal advice. It cannot, and=20 does not purport to, apply to any individual's specific situation. If you= =20 have questions about whether your specific conduct is legal, consult a=20 qualified, local attorney familiar with laws regulating firearms. You=20 should also obtain specific information from the government agencies=20 responsible for issuing firearm licenses and/or regulating firearm=20 possession in your location. The author, The Gun Zone, and Prodigy=20 Communications L.P. assume no responsibility for any actions taken in=20 reliance on the information in this discussion. Rob Firriolo is an attorney in private practice in New York City. An=20 Endowment Life Member of the NRA, he serves as NRA's Election Volunteer=20 Coordinator for New York's Third Congressional District, located on =20 Long Island. He is also a certified firearms instructor and range safety= =20 officer, and a member of the elite Lodge 1201, John Mattera Chapter of=20 the Unspeakable Order of Serious Social Shotgunners. Communities A-Z Sports.Rec Home =A9 1999 - 2002 Sports.Rec Bulletin Board= =20 Sports.Rec Prodigy Communications L.P. All Rights Reserved. Charles Riggs - Gunsite 1991 - DVC!=20 "Fight Crime - Be armed - Fight back!" President, KC3 (Kentucky Coalition to Carry Concealed) We support GOA-NRA-SAF ********************************* A parable for our times: http://www.kc3.org/sheep.htm ********************************* The Kentucky IDPA Studies Group: http://www.electricrain.com/~tyler/IDPASG/index.shtml ----------------------- end forwarded message from Charles Riggs --------= ------------- -- --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-= 19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! --- -