From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Gun Law Update from Alan Korwin (fwd) Date: 01 Mar 2003 00:53:22 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Jim Zoes --------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Korwin [mailto:alan@gunlaws.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 11:01 PM > To: alan@bloomfieldpress.com > Subject: Gun Law Update > > GUN LAW UPDATE, 2/27/03 > from Alan Korwin, Author > Gun Laws Of America > > > > THE GUN-FREE-ZONE LIABILITY ACT > THE GUN-FREE-ZONE LIABILITY ACT > > "If you create a gun-free zone, > you're liable for any harm it causes." > > Good news! Both Arizona and Georgia have put this bill in their > legislatures for 2003 (HB2320 in AZ, HB31 in GA). Several other > states are considering doing the same. > > Gun-free zones are known to be dangerous -- the idea that they > somehow make you safer is a fraud. They are reckless, negligent, and > a denial of civil rights that is long overdue for a closer look. > > Maybe this bill belongs in your legislature too. You or someone you > know should talk to one of your representatives about introducing it, > to start the dialog rolling on the dangers of arbitrary, > discriminatory gun-free zones. A person who would deny your right or > ability to self defense is as violent and wrong as the person who > assaults you. > > Read the bill (it's short) and the talking points on our website. An > awful lot of bad bills are planned. It's important to counteract > those with bills as positive as this one. Remember, if you get hurt > because they made you leave your gun behind, they should be held > responsible. Model language: > http://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/index.htm > > > > > NOTES ON FEDERAL GUN LAW > NOTES ON FEDERAL GUN LAW > > Federal gun law has grown 6.5% since Oct. 2000, to a new total of 94,333 > words. > > I've boiled out the new federal gun laws tucked away in The Patriot > Act, the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, and the Homeland > Security Act. The latest edition of Gun Laws of America (the 4th) > has the whole ball of wax: 5,749 new words of law, in 22 separate > sections, from four enacted federal laws. > > There is a disturbing trend in the new gun laws toward arming "the > proper authorities" where you and I can't be armed. The government > is essentially authorizing itself to have unrestricted Second > Amendment rights while the public by default gets the right to bear > arms curtailed. It's quite clever actually. The net result is six, > yes six new federal "police forces" (listed below, with other > highlights). These are government employees who can pretty much bear > arms at all times. Now wouldn't that be a nice right to have! > > Oh, and despite all the news stories that say otherwise, it's not > exactly arm the pilots, it's deputize the pilots, and arm the > deputies. It may seem a small difference, but it places control of > the pilot in federal hands, allows the feds to "undeputize" someone > to remove the ability to be armed, and the idea of having guns in the > hands of non-government officials on board -- you, me or pilots -- > was unacceptable, hence the current plan. > > A huge range of issues are identified > for arming pilots, including for example: > > - The type of firearm and ammo to be used > > - Placement of the gun in the cockpit to > ensure both its security and easy retrieval > > - Firearm retention > > - Accidental discharge reporting and repercussions > > - Interaction between air marshals, > the pilot, crew and other persons > > - Pilot selection and training > > - Storage and transit of guns between flights > and when pilots go off site > > - Notifying security staff when pilots > or others are authorized to be armed > > - Analysis of the risk of catastrophic aircraft > failure from gunfire to controls or sensitive > areas of the craft (the results are classified) > > - Guidelines on use of lethal force and, > > - Naturally, anything else the authorities deem necessary. > > Pilots with military and law enforcement backgrounds are to get > preference in the selection process. Although guns will be provided, > pilots may buy their own. Participating pilots are not eligible for > compensation from the government for their services as FFDOs. > Limited liability is provided for airlines, the pilots and the > government, for using or failing to use the guns. > > Air carriers are prohibited from pressuring or forbidding their > pilots from volunteering for the program, firing them for > participating, or refusing to let them pilot aircraft. Nothing's > easy, eh? > > Why doesn't the news ever look like this report. > > > > Summary of changes in the 4th edition of "Gun Laws of America" > > 1. Clinton cuts a deal with S&W, Congress outlaws it. (DOD Spending 2001) > 2. New federal police authorized: Federal Reserve Board Police (Patriot > Act) > 3. New federal police authorized: Transportation Security Police (ATSA) > 4. DOT can use local armed officials to aid federal air marshals (ATSA) > 5. Firearm training for crew authorized (ATSA) > 6. DOT must arm every airport screening location (ATSA) > 7. "Less-Than-Lethal Weaponry" term introduced (ATSA) > 8. Arm the Pilots, round 1, a farce, repealed, replaced a year later. > (ATSA) > 9. DOJ gun research office for personalized guns and portable armor > (Homeland) > 10. New federal police authorized: Inspector Generals Police (Homeland) > 11. BATF replaced by BATFE, moved from Treasury to Justice Dept. > (Homeland) > 12. New federal police authorized: BATFE (Homeland) > 13. Arm the Pilots round 2, "Federal Flight Deck Officers" (Homeland) > 14. Coordinate any armed officials who might be on an aircraft (Homeland) > 15. New federal police authorized: Homeland Security Police (Homeland) > > > > SUPREME COURT GUN CASES > SUPREME COURT GUN CASES > > All I can say is that this new book of mine is steadily moving ahead > but it's not done yet. I know some of you are real eager, it's just > that the project is so huge and I have a lot on my plate. Please be > patient. I pour in the hours and it soaks them up like a sponge. But > it's going to be worth it when it's finally out, because the Supreme > Court has said a ton about guns, and it's remarkably supportive of > the routine individual access to arms Americans have and have always > exercised. I'll have all the cases, with plain-English gists, and > with hundreds of the juiciest quotes highlighted, plus top flight > sections from David Kopel and Stephen Halbrook, soon. Real soon. > > > > [0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000] > END END END END > [0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000] > > This update has been brought to you by: > > Alan Korwin > BLOOMFIELD PRESS > "We publish the gun laws." > 4718 E. Cactus #440 <-- Note new street as of 6/1/01 > Phoenix, AZ 85032 > 602-996-4020 Phone > 602-494-0679 FAX > 1-800-707-4020 Orders > http://www.gunlaws.com > > Free color catalog on request > > Permission to circulate this update is granted as long as credit is > included. > > At the risk of sounding too mercenary, people like yourself who think > about these subjects would enjoy a copy of "Gun Laws of America," now > in its fully updated 4th edition. You can look at it at > http://www.gunlaws.com, and click the picture for details. But wait, > why should I apologize? I believe in free markets, private ownership > of property and capitalism!! If you're fighting for your rights and > it leaves you broke, maybe you could be doing a better job somehow!! > (The antis have no compunction about raising money for their cause.) > > ---------------------------------------------- > > "After a shooting spree, > they always want to take the guns away > from the people who didn't do it." > --William Burroughs, 1992 > > > GUNS ARE FOR SAFETY > > GUNS STOP CRIME > > GUNS SAVE LIVES > > GUNS ARE WHY AMERICA IS STILL FREE ----------------------- end forwarded message from Jim Zoes --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Fiedor Report on the News (fwd) Date: 01 Mar 2003 10:43:25 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Doug Fiedor --------------------- Fiedor Report on the News March 2, 2003 #304 by: Doug Fiedor dfiedor@comcast.net Still here in the asphalt jungle where the roads are bumpy and the streets are rough Previous Editions at: http://www.uhuh.com/reports/headsup/list-hu.htm SUPPORT THE LIBERTY AMENDMENT The text of a proposed Constitutional amendment is provided for discussion below. The Liberty Amendment was proposed in the 1970s and, they say, was approved by five states. Because of the New World Order fears, and the very real imposing actions of the United Nations on the freedom of American citizens, the Liberty Amendment should be even more interesting to Americans today. For Tenth Amendment advocates, the Liberty Amendment goes far in keeping the federal government out of matters that should be solely a state's business. And, with only a minimal change, the proposed amendment could also be worded so as to insure that no treaty or agreement will ever overrule anything in our Constitution. Calling it necessary for the promotion of individual liberty and limited government, back in 1998, Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) submitted the Liberty Amendment as HJ-116. "Over the years this amendment has enjoyed widespread support and has been introduced several times in the past by various Members of Congress, but finally this measure has a chance of success given the conservative Congress and mood of the country in favor of a more limited, constitutional government which respects individual liberty," Paul stated when he introduced the bill. (1) "The income tax is the most regressive tax imaginable, allowing government to take first claim on our lives. The income tax assumes government owns us, as individuals, and has a sovereign claim to the fruits of our labor. This is immoral. But government has been compelled to levy this economically damaging tax because government has grown so big. By reducing the size of the federal government to those functions strictly enumerated in the Constitution, there will no longer be a need for the income tax," said Paul. Obviously, the Liberty Amendment will not be a cure for all concerns citizens have with today's federal government. It would, however, cause a lot of very worthwhile changes. For that reason, we provide the full text -- with the explanation inserted by the authors -- for your examination. LIBERTY AMENDMENT "Section 1. The government of the United States shall not engage in any business, professional, commercial, financial or industrial enterprise except as specified in the Constitution." The first section terminates ownership and operation of all business-type activities currently operated by the federal government, except those authorized by the Constitution. Operation of the Post Office, and certain functions Constitutionally connected with the Armed Forces will not be affected. "Section 2. The Constitution or laws of any State, or the laws of the United States shall not be subject to the terms of any foreign or domestic agreement which would abrogate this amendment." This section insures that the amendment's effectiveness cannot be voided by treaties made with another country, or the United Nations. In fact, Section 2 will require that Congress revise or repeal numerous laws in order to limit the federal government's activities to the original intent of the Constitution. "Section 3. The activities of the United States Government which violate the intent and purpose of this amendment shall, within a period of three years from the date of ratification of this amendment, be liquidated and the properties and facilities affected shall be sold." The federal government will be allowed three years to divest itself of hundreds of businesses and other functions not authorized by the Constitution. This will also include such things as returning national forests and mineral rights back to the states. Again, those properties -- Post Offices, office buildings, military bases, etc. -- used for Constitutionally authorized functions, will not be affected. "Section 4. Three years after the ratification of this amendment the sixteenth article of amendments to the Constitution of the United States shall stand repealed and thereafter Congress shall not levy taxes on personal incomes, estates, and/or gifts." This section effectively scraps the Sixteenth Amendment, and hence the IRS and the whole income tax system. This also means that every taxpayer in the country will suddenly realize at least a 20% increase in take home pay. 1. http://www.house.gov/paul/press/press98/pr042898liberty.htm MADISON WARNED US "What prudent merchant will hazard his fortunes in any new branch of commerce when he knows not that his plans may be rendered unlawful before they can be executed?" asked James Madison in 1787. His words ring very true again today. Later, in The Federalist #44 he wrote: "The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more industrious and less informed part of the community. They have seen, too, that one legislative interference is but the first link of a long chain of repetitions, every subsequent interference being naturally produced by the effects of the preceding." Madison was writing about the capricious legislative actions of Great Britain. But, if we rewrote that into modern English, most Americans would identify it as describing today's federal government. A few years ago, Business Week reported that there are more than 100,000 new laws, rules and regulations enacted in the United States each year. Between 1976 and 1986, state legislatures alone made up 248,000 new laws. And, on average, each of these laws spurred at least ten new regulations. And that's only the state governments. The federal government is even worse. At last count, we found over 11,585 pages of IRS regulations, 11,270 pages of regulations for Agriculture, 11,808 pages for the EPA, and 5,368 for Labor, to name just a few affecting our personal activities. A quick look in a public library showed 211 fat books containing 122,027 pages of Federal regulations directly affecting American citizens. That's 122,027 pages of regulations alone, not laws passed by Congress. And, we're responsible for obeying every damn one of them! When you also factor in federal laws, this gets way, way out of hand. The most important function of government is the protection of the people -- to protect the free exercise of our rights and liberties. Instead, legislators and regulatory agencies seem to be trying to classify every known human activity as either prohibited or mandatory. Worse yet, any of these rules and regulations can be arbitrarily enforced on an unsuspecting citizen at any time. And, although they might be officially labeled rules and regulations by legislators, to the citizen they have the full force of law. After all, what happens if you break one of these little bureaucratic jewels? Agents with guns come after you and courts fine you and/or put you in prison, that's what! Madison was right. An over regulated society is not conducive to business -- and hence, to building wealth within that society. These actions by the federal government are, in effect, stymieing the welfare of the country. Is it any wonder so many American businesses, and American jobs, are moving to less regulated countries? NOTES ON THE CONSTITUTION All retroactive laws are unconstitutional. Supposedly, we are protected against such heavy-handed political impositions. Our social compact with government, the United States Constitution, forbids such actions by government. That is, if We the People are willing to enforce the issue. First, we should ask our Representatives and Senators if they intend to honor their oath of office. You know, the one where they swear to uphold, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. . . . Then, ask your Member of Congress to read Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3 of the Constitution, which states: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Laws shall be passed." This sentence should be pretty clear -- even to a Member of Congress or a Congressional aide -- since the operative word here is "No." The other operative words of interest to us are the Latin words "ex post facto" -- which is legalese for criminalizing an innocent action and then, retroactively, punishing it as a crime. In the Federalist Papers (#44) James Madison wrote: "Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligation of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact and to every principle of sound legislation." Alexander Hamilton expanded on that thought in Federalist #84 when he wrote: "The creation of crimes after the commission of the fact, or, in other words, the subjecting of men to punishment for things which, when they were done, were breaches of no law, and the practice of arbitrary imprisonments, have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny." In other words, according to Madison, passing a retroactive law violates every principle of sound legislation, and he expected American legislators to know better. Hamilton, however, was a little more blunt. "Tyranny," he calls it. Even before the Federalist papers, Sir William Blackstone, in his "Commentaries on the Law," was quite clear in his opinion of ex post facto laws: "These are wholly unreasonable," he began the section. Blackstone then contends that all laws should be passed, and the people notified, well in advance of their effective date. During the Constitutional Convention, James Wilson, a delegate from Pennsylvania, feared that even "to put the ex post facto provision in the Constitution might proclaim that we are ignorant of the first principles of Legislation, or are constituting a Government which will be so." William Samuel Johnson, a delegate from Connecticut, thought the clause "unnecessary, and implying an improper suspicion of the National Legislature." They too thought American legislators would know better. Apparently, though, they didn't anticipate the type of politicians we have running the government in Washington today. Some lawyers say the ex post facto provision only applies to criminal law. The United States Supreme Court, however, said otherwise. The ex post facto provision applies to any law imposing a penalty. Therefore, it doesn't matter if we're talking about a tax package, environmental laws, rules and regulations, or gun laws. If the law, rule or regulation is retroactive it is, as James Madison instructs "contrary to the first principles of the social compact and to every principle of sound legislation." Or, it is, as Alexander Hamilton puts it: "Tyranny." ~ End ~ ----------------------- end forwarded message from Doug Fiedor --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! ----------------------- end forwarded message from ocs@xpresso.seaslug.org --------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: [ALERT] Protect Your Family - Go To Jail? (fwd) Date: 01 Mar 2003 20:01:41 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from ConservativeAlerts.com --------------------- This CONSERVATIVE ALERT prepared for William Vance: ISSUE: Who should go to jail -- home invaders, or home owners? According to the New York Times, Mr. Ronald Dixon of Brooklyn, NY, "was upstairs, in bed, when he heard a noise in the hallway. Half asleep, he opened his eyes and saw a man at the top of the stairs heading toward the bedroom of Mr. Dixon's 2-year-old son, Kyle. That was enough for the father. He grabbed a 9-millimeter pistol that he kept in a closet, walked toward the man and asked what he was doing there. This man, Mr. Dixon said, ran at him, screaming. That's when he pulled the trigger. He shot the intruder twice, wounding him seriously but not mortally." Now, 27-year-old Mr. Dixon is your basic "straight arrow," a Navy veteran who works two jobs -- 80 hours a week -- as a computer specialist to provide for his family, including two small children. The man accused of being the intruder, Ivan Thompson, 40, is a career criminal with a long record of burglaries and other crimes. If convicted this time, he could be locked away for a long, long time. Case closed, right? Not quite. Mr. Dixon had purchased his gun legally when he lived in Florida. He had just recently moved to Brooklyn, and was smack dab in the middle of running through all the hoops and jumping through all the rings -- and there are a LOT of them -- to get his gun registered in New York. But the registration process wasn't yet complete when he used his gun to defend his family. And Mr. Dixon lives in a borough whose district attorney, Charles J. Hynes, "considers the prosecution of illegal-gun charges a supreme virtue. Mr. Hynes wants Mr. Dixon to do jail time... If convicted of the misdemeanor charge against him, Mr. Dixon could get as much as a year. Mr. Hynes is offering a plea bargain that would involve four weekends, tops, on Rikers Island." You read that right. Mr. Dixon is facing up to a year on RIKERS ISLAND if he doesn't accept the "plea bargain" from District Attorney Hynes and plead GUILTY on a gun possession charge, for a gun he had purchased legally and was in the process of making legal in New York. And if he's found guilty, his permanent record could keep him from obtaining work in his field. We just don't think that's right. ACTION ITEM: The Brooklyn DA is elected to that position, from what we understand. As an elected official, he is obligated to listen to what voters have to say. So, we've set up a way for you to easily communicate with him. Go to the site below to send an editable pre-written message to DA Charles J. Hynes, letting him know what you think of prosecuting upstanding law-abiding citizens who try to protect their families: http://www.conservativealerts.com/030103.htm AOL GO HERE Or give Mr. Hynes a call at 718-250-2000 (718-250-2025 after hours and weekends). NOTE: This isn't a "gun control" issue; this is a FAMILY PROTECTION issue. Be sure to forward this email to everyone you know who wants to see *real* justice prevail in this case. Thank you! You are receiving this communication because you requested to be e-mailed regarding issues and offers of interest to conservatives, either when you sent an e-mail to Congress, signed an online petition, sent a FedEx, faxgram or mailgram, or when you donated to a conservative cause or candidate on the Internet or through postal mail. You are currently subscribed as: bill@xpresso.seaslug.org To manage your subscription, either send an email to leave-conservativealerts-2464512I@list.conservativealerts.com or go to http://silver.lyris.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=conservativealerts and follow instructions there. Was this message forwarded to you by a friend? You can sign up for the ConservativeAlerts.com Action Alerts for FREE! Go here: http://www.ConservativeAlerts.com/ ----------------------- end forwarded message from ConservativeAlerts.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: HOMELAND SECURITY - The Correct Way,,,, (fwd) Date: 02 Mar 2003 20:48:11 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com --------------------- This pretty much says it all..... Happy moments, praise God. Difficult moments, seek God. Quiet moments, worship God.. Painful moments, trust God.. Every moment, thank God. Philippians 4:6-7 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (King James) 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. (New International) ----------------------- end forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Ten Great Reasons to Celebrate (fwd) Date: 02 Mar 2003 22:42:13 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Tammy S. --------------------- Hi all, I really liked this. Love, Tammy S. ******************************************************************* In Washington, DC, the Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC), dedicated an internal virtual memorial website for employees who wanted to convey their thoughts of the past year. One entry was particularly profound, and written by a foreigner. In the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attack, we have heard a great deal about "why they hate us," and about why America is so bad. Mr. Souza's article doesn't answer those issues--it simply points out their irrelevancy. "Ten Great Reasons to Celebrate" by Dinesh D. Souza. As an immigrant who has chosen to become a U.S. citizen, I feel especially qualified to say what is special about this country. Having grown up in a different society - in my case, Mumbai, India - I am not only able to identify aspects of America that are invisible to people who have always lived here, but I am also acutely conscious of the daily blessings I enjoy in America. We've endured lengthy lectures about America's history of slavery, about the defects of American foreign policy, about the materialism of American life, and about the excesses of American culture. In the view of many critics at home and abroad, America can do no right. This indictment, which undermines the patriotism of Americans, is based on a narrow and distorted understanding of America. It exaggerates America's faults, and it ignores what is good and even great about America. Here, then, is my list of the 10 great things about America. (1) America provides an amazingly good life for the ordinary guy: Rich people live well everywhere. But what distinguishes America is that it provides an incomparably high standard of living for the "common man." We now live in a country where construction workers regularly pay $4 for a non-fat latte, where maids drive nice cars, and where plumbers take their families on vacation to Europe. Indeed newcomers to the United States are struck by the amenities enjoyed by "poor" people in the United States. This fact was dramatized in the 1980s when CBS television broadcast a documentary, "People Like Us," which was intended to show the miseries of the poor during an ongoing recession. The Soviet Union also broadcast the documentary, with a view to embarrassing the Reagan administration. But by the testimony of former Soviet leaders, it had the opposite effect. Ordinary people across the Soviet Union saw that the poorest Americans have TV sets, microwave ovens and cars. They arrived at the same perception that I witnessed in an acquaintance of mine from Bombay who has been unsuccessfully trying to move to the United States. I asked him, "Why are you so eager to come to America?" He replied, "I really want to live in a country where the poor people are fat." (2) America offers more opportunity and social mobility than any other country, including those of Europe: America is the only country that has created a population of "self-made tycoons." Only in America could Pierre Omidyar, whose parents are Iranian and who grew up in Paris, have started a company like eBay. Only in America could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian army officer, become a leading venture capitalist, the shaper of the technology industry and a billionaire to boot. Admittedly tycoons are not typical, but no country has created a better ladder than America for people to ascend from modest circumstances to success. (3) Work and trade are respectable in America, which is not true elsewhere: Historically, most cultures have despised the merchant and the laborer, regarding the former as vile and corrupt and the latter as degraded and vulgar. Some cultures, such as that of ancient Greece and medieval Islam, even held it is better to acquire things through plunder than through trade or contract labor. But the American Founders altered this moral hierarchy. They established a society in which the life of the businessman, and of the people who worked for him, would be a noble calling. In the American view, there is nothing vile or degraded about serving your customers either as a CEO or as a waiter. The ordinary life of production and supporting a family is more highly valued in the United States than in any other country. Indeed America is the only country in the world where we call the waiter sir," as if he were a knight. (4) America has achieved greater social equality than any other society: True, there are large inequalities of income and wealth in America. In purely economic terms, Europe is more egalitarian. But Americans are socially more equal than any other people, and this is unaffected by economic disparities. Alexis de Tocqueville noticed this egalitarianism a century and a half ago, but it is if anything more prevalent today. For all his riches, Bill Gates could not approach the typical American and say, "Here's a $100 bill. I'll give it to you if you kiss my feet." Most likely the person would tell Mr. Gates where to go. The American view is that the rich guy may have more money, but he isn't in any fundamental sense better than anyone else. (5) People live longer, fuller lives in America: Although protesters rail against the American version of technological capitalism at trade meetings around the world, in reality the American system has given citizens many more years of life and the means to live more intensely and actively. In 1900, the life expectancy in America was around 50 years; today, it is more than 75 years. Advances in medicine and agriculture are mainly responsible for the change. This extension of the lifespan means more years to enjoy life, more free time to devote to a good cause, and more occasions to do things with the grandchildren. In many countries, people who are old seem to have nothing to do: they just wait to die. In America the old are incredibly vigorous, and people in their 70s pursue the pleasures of life, including remarriage and sexual gratification, with a zeal that I find unnerving. (6) In America the destiny of the young is not given to them but created by them. Not long ago, I asked myself, "What would my life have been like if I had never come to the United States?" If I had remained in India, I would probably have lived my whole life within a 5-mile radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have married a woman of my identical religious and socioeconomic background. I would almost certainly have become a medical doctor, or an engineer or a computer programmer. I would have socialized entirely within my ethnic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that could be predicted in advance; indeed, they would not be very different from what my father believed, or his father before him. In sum, my destiny would to a large degree have been given to me. In America, I have seen my life take a radically different course. In college, I became interested in literature and politics, and I resolved to make a career as a writer. I married a woman whose ancestry is English, French, Scotch-Irish, German, and American Indian. In my 20s I found myself working as a policy analyst in the White House, even though I was not an American citizen. No other country, I am sure, would have permitted a foreigner to work in its inner citadel of government. In most countries in the world, your fate and your identity are handed to you; in America, you determine them for yourself. America is a country where you get to write the script of your own life. Your life is like a blank sheet of paper, and you are the artist. This notion of being the architect of your own destiny is the incredibly powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of America. Young people especially find irresistible the prospect of authoring the narrative of their own lives. (7) America has gone further than any other society in establishing equality of rights: There is nothing distinctively American about slavery or bigotry. Slavery has existed in virtually every culture, and xenophobia, prejudice and discrimination are worldwide phenomena. Western civilization is the only civilization to mount a principled campaign against slavery; no country expended more treasure and blood to get rid of slavery than the United States. While racism remains a problem in America, this country has made strenuous efforts to eradicate discrimination, even to the extent of enacting policies that give legal preference in university admissions, jobs and government contracts to members of minority groups. Such policies remain controversial, but the point is that it is extremely unlikely that a racist society would have permitted such policies in the first place. And surely African-Americans like Jesse Jackson are vastly better off living in America than they would be if they were to live in, say, Ethiopia or Somalia (8) America has found a solution to the problem of religious and ethnic conflict that continues to divide and terrorize much of the world: Visitors to places like New York are amazed to see the way in which Serbs and Croatians, Sikhs and Hindus, Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants, Jews and Palestinians, all seem to work and live together in harmony. How is this possible when these same groups are spearing each other and burning each other's homes in so many places in the world? The American answer is twofold. First, separate the spheres of religion and government so no religion is given official preference but all are free to practice their faith as they wish. Second, do not extend rights to racial or ethnic groups but only to individuals; in this way, all are equal in the eyes of the law, opportunity is open to anyone who can take advantage of it, and everybody who embraces the American way of life can "become American." Of course there are exceptions to these core principles, even in America. Racial preferences are one such exception, which explains why they are controversial. But in general America is the only country in the world that extends full membership to outsiders. The typical American could come to India, live for 40 years, and take Indian citizenship. But he could not "become Indian." He wouldn't see himself that way, nor would most Indians see him that way. In America, by contrast, hundreds of millions have come from far-flung shores and over time they, or at least their children, have in a profound and full sense "become American." (9) America has the kindest, gentlest foreign policy of any great power in world history: Critics of the U.S. are likely to react to this truth with sputtering outrage. They will point to longstanding American support for a Latin or Middle Eastern despot, or the unjust internment of the Japanese during World War II, or America's reluctance to impose sanctions on South Africa's apartheid regime. However one feels about these particular cases, let us concede to the critics the point that America is not always in the right. What the critics leave out is the other side of the ledger. Twice in the 20th century, the United States saved the world: first from the Nazi threat, then from Soviet totalitarianism. What would have been the world's fate if America had not existed? After destroying Germany and Japan in World War II, the U.S. proceeded to rebuild both countries, and today they are American allies. Now we are doing the same thing with Afghanistan. Consider, too, how magnanimous the U.S. has been to the former Soviet Union after its victory in the Cold War. For the most part America is an abstaining superpower: It shows no real interest in conquering and subjugating the rest of the world. (Imagine how the Soviets would have acted if they had won the Cold War.) On occasion America intervenes to overthrow a tyrannical regime or to halt massive human-rights abuses in another country, but it never stays to rule that country. In Grenada, Haiti and Bosnia, the U.S. got in and then it got out. Moreover, when America does get into a war, it is supremely careful to avoid targeting civilians and to minimize collateral damage. Even as America bombed the Taliban infrastructure and hideouts, its planes dropped rations of food to avert hardship and starvation of Afghan civilians. What other country does these things? (10) America, the freest nation on Earth, is also the most virtuous nation on Earth: This point seems counterintuitive, given the amount of conspicuous vulgarity, vice and immorality in America. Indeed some Islamic fundamentalists argue that their regimes are morally superior to the United States because they seek to foster virtue among the citizens. Virtue, these fundamentalists argue, is a higher principle than liberty. Indeed it is. And let us admit that in a free society, freedom will frequently be used badly. Freedom, by definition, includes the freedom to do good or evil, to act nobly or basely. But if freedom brings out the worst in people, it also brings out the best. The millions of Americans who live decent, praiseworthy lives deserve our highest admiration because they have opted for the good when the good is not the only available option. Even amidst the temptations of a rich and free society, they have remained on the straight path. Their virtue has special luster because it is freely chosen. By contrast, the societies that many Islamic fundamentalists seek would eliminate the possibility of virtue. If the supply of virtue is insufficient in a free society like America, it is almost nonexistent in an un-free society like Iran. The reason is that coerced virtues are not virtues at all. Consider the woman who is required to wear a veil. There is no modesty in this, because she is being compelled. Compulsion cannot produce virtue, it can only produce the outward semblance of virtue. Thus a free society like America is not merely more prosperous, more varied, more peaceful, and more tolerant - it is also morally superior to the theocratic and authoritarian regimes that America's enemies advocate. "To make us love our country," Edmund Burke once said, "our country ought to be lovely." Burke's point is that we should love our country not just because it is ours, but also because it is good. America is far from perfect, and there is lots of room for improvement. Despite its flaws, however, the American life as it is lived today is the best life our world has to offer. Ultimately America is worthy of our love and sacrifice because, more than any other society, it makes possible the good life. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Tammy S. --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Have You Forgotten--Lyrics--Buy the CD (fwd) Date: 04 Mar 2003 14:59:18 -0800 (PST) Good song. Bill ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BlueEyeAngel53@aol.com --------------------- 'Have You Forgotten?' lyricsVerse I hear people saying we don't need this war I say there's some things worth fighting for What about our freedom and this piece of ground We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in Before you start your preaching let me ask you this my friend Chorus Have you forgotten how it felt that day? To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away Have you forgotten when those towers fell? We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden Have you forgotten? Verse They took all the footage off my T.V. Said it's too disturbing for you and me It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say If it was up to me I'd show it everyday Some say this country's just out looking for a fight After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right Repeat chorus Bridge I've been there with the soldiers Who've gone away to war And you can bet that they remember Just what they're fighting for Chorus 3 Have you forgotten all the people killed? Some went down like heros in that Pennsylvania field Have you forgotten about our Pentagon? All the loved ones that we lost and those left to carry on Don't you tell me not to worry about bin Laden Have you forgotten? Tag Have you forgotten? Have you forgotten? Darryl Worley/Wynn Varble, 2003 EMI Blackwood Music Inc./Hatley Creek Music/Warner-Tamerlane, Publishing Corp. (BMI) ----------------------- end forwarded message from BlueEyeAngel53@aol.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Federal Assault Weapon Ban Up For Renewal 9/03 (fwd) Date: 05 Mar 2003 10:35:31 -0800 (PST) I wish I had more data to pass along here, but if I remember correctly, it is about time for a heads up, preliminary to burning up the backbone with msgs to Wash. DC. Anyone got good strategfies in mind, (ConservativeALerts, et al)? Bill ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Carl F. Worden --------------------- Ladies & gentlemen: Well, well, well, let's see what our president is going to do about this-here federal assault weapons ban that comes up for renewal in September. It never accomplished a thing. It didn't reduce crime and it didn't reduce availability. We all got around the ten-round limit magazines, and no lives were saved by anyone shot or assaulted with a weapon limited to ten rounds anyway -- as far as I know. We can all collectively groan when we read Senator Diane Feinstein's stupid quote of the day: "I am quite familiar with firearms," Feinstein said. "I became mayor as a product of assassination. I found my assassinated colleague (Milk) and put a finger through a bullet hole trying to get a pulse. "Senator, I know something about what firearms can do," If the bullet didn't kill Mr. Milk, the infection from sticking her finger in the bullet hole might very well have. The other fact of the case? Killer Dan White used a six-round revolver to do the job. Go figure why little Miss Feinstein wanted semi-automatic rifles banned! I hereby nominate Senator Diane Feinstein as supreme jackass of the year. Do I hear a second? Carl F. Worden http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file3D/c/a/2003/03/05/MN6752.DTL Assault weapons ban back on the table Feinstein irked by lukewarm support for extension Edward Epstein, Chronicle Washington Bureau Wednesday, March 5, 2003 Washington -- Sen. Dianne Feinstein and President Bush seem headed for a showdown over her effort to renew the federal assault weapons ban after the administration hedged Tuesday on a presidential pledge to support the renewal. The semiautomatic assault weapons bill, which barely passed in 1994, stands as a legislative hallmark of Feinstein's 10 years in the Senate. It is due to expire in September 2004, unless Congress votes to reauthorize it and Bush signs the bill. In his 2000 presidential campaign, Bush came out for renewal and for an additional provision to ban the import of ammunition- feeding devices of 10 bullets or more. Feinstein wants to renew the law and expand it to include more weapons, ban the ammunition imports and make it illegal for juveniles under age 21 to possess semiautomatic guns that were permitted under the 1994 law. Feinstein asked Attorney General John Ashcroft at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on Tuesday if the Bush administration would back the renewal. "The administration supports the current ban," was as far as Ashcroft would go under repeated questioning from Feinstein and Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., who was the House sponsor of the 1994 legislation. BAN'S UNCERTAIN EFFECT Ashcroft said National Institute of Justice studies conducted in the 1990s showed the ban on semiautomatic weapons has had an uncertain effect. "We will continue to study the issue," he said, adding that the White House also hasn't yet taken a position on the ammunition or juvenile-possession issues. Feinstein, who said she was profoundly disappointed by Ashcroft's answers, had met with the attorney general on Jan. 8 to try to line up White House support for the extension. She did not receive a reply until Tuesday. "I was a bit nonplussed. They are well on record supporting extension," Feinstein said after a hearing at which Ashcroft appeared with FBI Director Robert Mueller and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge. Feinstein, who said she will introduce her bill this week, warned the administration of trouble if the president changes his mind. "I will hold him to his campaign promise, and I think the American people will hold him to it. I don't think there is any evidence that the American people want assault weapons on their streets," she said. In fact, when Ashcroft was a Republican senator from Missouri, he introduced the legislation to ban juveniles from possessing assault weapons that were grandfathered in under the 1993 law. At his 2001 confirmation hearings for attorney general, Ashcroft said he and Bush supported renewing the assault weapons ban. ASHCROFT BACKED EXTENSION "It is my understanding that the president-elect of the United States has indicated his clear support for extending the assault weapons ban, and I will be pleased to move forward with that position," Ashcroft said in response to a question from Feinstein. Gun control advocates wouldn't speculate why Bush seems to be hedging on Feinstein's proposal. At the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, spokesman Rob Wilcox said that despite Ashcroft's answers on Tuesday, the group still hopes Bush will back the renewal of the assault weapons ban. "Nothing he said made it seem like they won't do it," Wilcox said of Ashcroft's testimony. "We think there is room to work with them." But the National Rifle Association, which wants the ban to die in 2004, said the law has been ineffective. "Its intent was to curb crime. The study from the Clinton administration's own Justice Department showed it had no effect," said NRA chief lobbyist Chris Cox. "Some politicians are determined to play politics as they seek to renew and expand this ban," he added, referring to Feinstein. Gun control advocates say the law, in conjunction with other measures, has cut gun violence. Bush has generally said the country doesn't need more gun laws. He opposes state and local government lawsuits against gunmakers, but has said he wants mandatory child-proof safety locks on new guns. ISSUE IMPORTANT TO FEINSTEIN The weapons legislation remains important to Feinstein. A framed front page of The Chronicle from the day the Senate first passed the bill in November 1993 hangs in her outer office at the Hart Senate Building. It was during debate over her proposal, which was an amendment to President Bill Clinton's anti-crime package, that Feinstein had a pointed exchange with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, that boosted the reputation of the former San Francisco mayor who became chief executive in 1978 after Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk were shot to death by ex-Supervisor Dan White. "The gentlelady from California needs to become a little bit more familiar with firearms and their deadly characteristics," Craig admonished the freshman senator. "I am quite familiar with firearms," Feinstein said. "I became mayor as a product of assassination. I found my assassinated colleague (Milk) and put a finger through a bullet hole trying to get a pulse. "Senator, I know something about what firearms can do," she ended and sat down. E-mail Edward Epstein at eepstein@sfchronicle.com. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Carl F. Worden --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc Subject: Re: Federal Assault Weapon Ban Up For Renewal 9/03 (fwd) Date: 05 Mar 2003 11:47:21 -0700 actually September 04 chad On Wednesday, Mar 5, 2003, at 11:35 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > I wish I had more data to pass along here, but if I remember > correctly, it is > about time for a heads up, preliminary to burning up the backbone with > msgs to > Wash. DC. Anyone got good strategfies in mind, (ConservativeALerts, > et al)? > > Bill > > > ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Carl F. Worden > --------------------- > > From: "Carl F. Worden" > Subject: Federal Assault Weapon Ban Up For Renewal 9/03 > Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 09:32:49 -0800 > > Ladies & gentlemen: > > Well, well, well, let's see what our president is going to do > about this-here federal assault weapons ban that comes > up for renewal in September. It never accomplished a > thing. It didn't reduce crime and it didn't reduce availability. > We all got around the ten-round limit magazines, and no > lives were saved by anyone shot or assaulted with a weapon > limited to ten rounds anyway -- as far as I know. > > We can all collectively groan when we read Senator Diane > Feinstein's stupid quote of the day: > "I am quite familiar with firearms," Feinstein said. "I became mayor as > a product of assassination. I found my assassinated colleague (Milk) > and > put a finger through a bullet hole trying to get a pulse. "Senator, I > know something about what firearms can do," > > If the bullet didn't kill Mr. Milk, the infection from sticking her > finger in the bullet hole might very well have. The other fact of the > case? Killer Dan White used a six-round revolver to do the job. Go > figure why little Miss Feinstein wanted semi-automatic rifles banned! > > I hereby nominate Senator Diane Feinstein as supreme jackass of the > year. Do I hear a second? > > Carl F. Worden > > > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file3D/c/a/2003/03/05/ > MN6752.DTL > > > Assault weapons ban back on the table > Feinstein irked by lukewarm support for extension > > Edward Epstein, Chronicle Washington Bureau Wednesday, March > 5, 2003 > > > Washington -- Sen. Dianne Feinstein and President Bush seem > headed > for a showdown over her effort to renew the federal assault weapons ban > after the administration hedged Tuesday on a presidential pledge to > support the renewal. > > The semiautomatic assault weapons bill, which barely passed in > 1994, stands as a legislative hallmark of Feinstein's 10 years in the > Senate. It is due to expire in September 2004, unless Congress votes to > reauthorize it and Bush signs the bill. In his 2000 presidential > campaign, Bush came out for renewal and for an additional provision to > ban the import of ammunition- feeding devices of 10 bullets or more. > > Feinstein wants to renew the law and expand it to include more > weapons, ban the ammunition imports and make it illegal for juveniles > under age 21 to possess semiautomatic guns that were permitted under > the > 1994 law. > > Feinstein asked Attorney General John Ashcroft at a Senate > Judiciary Committee hearing on Tuesday if the Bush administration would > back the renewal. > > "The administration supports the current ban," was as far as > Ashcroft would go under repeated questioning from Feinstein and Sen. > Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., who was the House sponsor of the 1994 > legislation. > > > BAN'S UNCERTAIN EFFECT > Ashcroft said National Institute of Justice studies conducted in > the 1990s showed the ban on semiautomatic weapons has had an uncertain > effect. > > "We will continue to study the issue," he said, adding that the > White House also hasn't yet taken a position on the ammunition or > juvenile-possession issues. > > Feinstein, who said she was profoundly disappointed by Ashcroft's > answers, had met with the attorney general on Jan. 8 to try to line up > White House support for the extension. She did not receive a reply > until > Tuesday. > > "I was a bit nonplussed. They are well on record supporting > extension," Feinstein said after a hearing at which Ashcroft appeared > with FBI Director Robert Mueller and Homeland Security Secretary Tom > Ridge. > > Feinstein, who said she will introduce her bill this week, warned > the administration of trouble if the president changes his mind. > > "I will hold him to his campaign promise, and I think the > American > people will hold him to it. I don't think there is any evidence that > the > American people want assault weapons on their streets," she said. > > In fact, when Ashcroft was a Republican senator from Missouri, he > introduced the legislation to ban juveniles from possessing assault > weapons that were grandfathered in under the 1993 law. At his 2001 > confirmation hearings for attorney general, Ashcroft said he and Bush > supported renewing the assault weapons ban. > > > ASHCROFT BACKED EXTENSION > "It is my understanding that the president-elect of the United > States has indicated his clear support for extending the assault > weapons > ban, and I will be pleased to move forward with that position," > Ashcroft > said in response to a question from Feinstein. > > Gun control advocates wouldn't speculate why Bush seems to be > hedging on Feinstein's proposal. > > At the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, spokesman Rob > Wilcox said that despite Ashcroft's answers on Tuesday, the group still > hopes Bush will back the renewal of the assault weapons ban. > > "Nothing he said made it seem like they won't do it," Wilcox said > of Ashcroft's testimony. "We think there is room to work with them." > > But the National Rifle Association, which wants the ban to die in > 2004, said the law has been ineffective. > > "Its intent was to curb crime. The study from the Clinton > administration's own Justice Department showed it had no effect," said > NRA chief lobbyist Chris Cox. > > "Some politicians are determined to play politics as they seek to > renew and expand this ban," he added, referring to Feinstein. > > Gun control advocates say the law, in conjunction with other > measures, has cut gun violence. > > Bush has generally said the country doesn't need more gun laws. > He > opposes state and local government lawsuits against gunmakers, but has > said he wants mandatory child-proof safety locks on new guns. > > > ISSUE IMPORTANT TO FEINSTEIN > The weapons legislation remains important to Feinstein. A framed > front page of The Chronicle from the day the Senate first passed the > bill in November 1993 hangs in her outer office at the Hart Senate > Building. > > It was during debate over her proposal, which was an amendment to > President Bill Clinton's anti-crime package, that Feinstein had a > pointed exchange with Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, that boosted the > reputation of the former San Francisco mayor who became chief executive > in 1978 after Mayor George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk were shot > to death by ex-Supervisor Dan White. > > "The gentlelady from California needs to become a little bit more > familiar with firearms and their deadly characteristics," Craig > admonished the freshman senator. > > "I am quite familiar with firearms," Feinstein said. "I became > mayor as a product of assassination. I found my assassinated colleague > (Milk) and put a finger through a bullet hole trying to get a pulse. > > "Senator, I know something about what firearms can do," she ended > and sat down. > > E-mail Edward Epstein at eepstein@sfchronicle.com. > > > ----------------------- end forwarded message from Carl F. Worden > --------------------- > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** > 4-19! > ----------------+----------+-------------------------- > +--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who > hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and > buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus > Christ > ----------------+----------+-------------------------- > +--------------------- > > Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: CNSNews.com reports Lincoln video to be "fixed," not ejected (fwd) Date: 06 Mar 2003 11:23:57 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from ConservativePetitions.com --------------------- CNSNEWS.COM REPORTS SLANTED LINCOLN VIDEO WILL BE POLITICALLY 'FIXED,' NOT EJECTED CNSNews.com reports a public outcry may be resulting in action against the shamelessly slanted video being shown at the Lincoln Memorial -- but not the kind needed. To "satisfy the public," a National Park Service advisory panel has recommended keeping the video's radical propaganda by "trying to modify" it to "give adequate representation" to all political views, according to a park service spokesman. The review occurred after National Park Service Director Fran Mainella and several employees watched the Lincoln tape, which had been the subject of a CNSNews.com report and a ConservativePetitions.com petition effort. The video presently suggests President Abraham Lincoln would have supported modern-day, left-of-center political causes such as homosexual, feminist and abortion rights. For more on the video's slanted contents, click this link: http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=136 No final decision reportedly has been made, but the park service will "move pretty quick" and "wants a solution soon," according to the spokesman, who admits "most people would view the [video's] visuals as being a very one-sided representation of liberal causes." He cautioned "adding conservative footage" to politically balance the video would be costly because of technical issues. "Balancing the video's visuals isn't the answer," countered Phil Sheldon of ConservativePetition.com. "Radicals have had many years of their lies. The only way to balance them is to remove them." ==> Here's where to tell the National Park Service to eject the propaganda, not find a way to continue to promote abortion and homosexual rights: http://www.conservativepetitions.com/petitions.php?id=136 CNSNews.com has greatly helped champion this cause, Sheldon said. "As usual, they're providing news you can use to make a difference, information you can't get from other major media. Every conservative ought to make a daily visit to their site," he said. ==> Here's where to get more information from CNSNews.com on the National Park Service's proposed mis-handling of the video: http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200303/NAT20030304c.html (Note: you may need to copy and paste this link into your browser without spaces.) You are receiving this message as a member of ConservativePetitions.com. If you wish to stop receiving these mailings, follow the link below. http://www.nmailer.com/unsub/index.html?e=aa_5-19612 ----------------------- end forwarded message from ConservativePetitions.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: [SSN not Required] Hackers access UT database, nab 59,000 names, Social Security numbers (fwd) Date: 06 Mar 2003 21:27:46 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Ray Iddings --------------------- Reply-To: no_ssn-owner@yahoogroups.com March 6, 2003, 7:21AM Hackers access UT database, nab 59,000 names, Social Security numbers By ROBERT CROWE Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle The names and Social Security numbers of about 59,000 former and current students, faculty and staff members at the University of Texas were obtained by computer hackers between Feb. 26 and Sunday, a UT administrator said Wednesday night. The university was working with the Secret Service and U.S. attorney's office to find those who carried out the theft from computers in Austin and Houston, said Dan Updegrove, university president for information technology. "We are doing everything it takes to get the data back and try to determine if it in any way has been used or disseminated," he said. Law enforcement officials were expected to obtain and execute search warrants late Wednesday in Austin and Houston at homes where computers may have been used in the cyberspace break-in. Updegrove said UT had not planned to inform the public of the story Wednesday until the Austin American-Statesman contacted the university. "We flat out messed up on this one," Updegrove said. "Shame on us for leaving the door open, and shame on them for exploiting it. Our Number 1 goal is to get those data back before they get misused." The incident comes at a time of growing concern about identity theft on college campuses. Many universities, including UT, use Social Security numbers as student identifiers, and the numbers are therefore found in many records. The ranks of current and former UT students, faculty and staff include hundreds of thousands of people. University officials were scrambling Wednesday to figure out how to advise those whose information was stolen. Some who are no longer affiliated with the university might no longer be reachable at the phone numbers and addresses on file. The theft was discovered Sunday evening by university computer systems employees performing routine maintenance, Updegrove said. They immediately disconnected the compromised database from the Internet, later hooking up a database of useless information. Computer logs indicate the information was taken by a computer in Austin on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday last week and by a computer in Houston on Saturday and Sunday, Updegrove said. He said the intrusions were likely done by the same person or persons, he added. He did not know whether the information stolen by the hackers had been used or disseminated for illegal purposes, such as opening bank accounts or obtaining credit cards. He said the hackers discovered a database used to track employees to gather the Social Security numbers and names. They used a program that matched Social Security numbers it generated with the names and Social Security numbers of current and former students. While the database should only have given information for employees in the database who would have completed special training, it offered access to a network of databases with the names and Social Security numbers of current and former students. "Somebody figured out this loophole in our security vulnerability," Updegrove said. "The program was built by my department, so I think I would have to say I am responsible." The thief or thieves used a computer program to query the UT database with 3 million potential Social Security numbers, resulting in about 59,000 hits, or successful matches, Updegrove said. The hackers also obtained e-mail addresses and, for some current faculty and staff members, office addresses and office phone numbers, Updegrove said. He said the university waited to tell the public because it did not want the hackers to know the university was aware of the theft. Updegrove defended the university's decision not to announce the theft right away. It took time to understand the dimensions of the theft, he said. The more urgent task is to track down the perpetrators and recover the data, Updegrove said. To that end, the university has reported the theft to the FBI, the Austin Police Department and other authorities. Cox News Service contributed to this story. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Ray Iddings --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: [SSN not Required] Hackers access UT database, nab 59,000 names, Social Security numbers (fwd) Date: 06 Mar 2003 22:06:09 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Ray Iddings --------------------- Reply-To: no_ssn-owner@yahoogroups.com March 6, 2003, 7:21AM Hackers access UT database, nab 59,000 names, Social Security numbers By ROBERT CROWE Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle The names and Social Security numbers of about 59,000 former and current students, faculty and staff members at the University of Texas were obtained by computer hackers between Feb. 26 and Sunday, a UT administrator said Wednesday night. The university was working with the Secret Service and U.S. attorney's office to find those who carried out the theft from computers in Austin and Houston, said Dan Updegrove, university president for information technology. "We are doing everything it takes to get the data back and try to determine if it in any way has been used or disseminated," he said. Law enforcement officials were expected to obtain and execute search warrants late Wednesday in Austin and Houston at homes where computers may have been used in the cyberspace break-in. Updegrove said UT had not planned to inform the public of the story Wednesday until the Austin American-Statesman contacted the university. "We flat out messed up on this one," Updegrove said. "Shame on us for leaving the door open, and shame on them for exploiting it. Our Number 1 goal is to get those data back before they get misused." The incident comes at a time of growing concern about identity theft on college campuses. Many universities, including UT, use Social Security numbers as student identifiers, and the numbers are therefore found in many records. The ranks of current and former UT students, faculty and staff include hundreds of thousands of people. University officials were scrambling Wednesday to figure out how to advise those whose information was stolen. Some who are no longer affiliated with the university might no longer be reachable at the phone numbers and addresses on file. The theft was discovered Sunday evening by university computer systems employees performing routine maintenance, Updegrove said. They immediately disconnected the compromised database from the Internet, later hooking up a database of useless information. Computer logs indicate the information was taken by a computer in Austin on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday last week and by a computer in Houston on Saturday and Sunday, Updegrove said. He said the intrusions were likely done by the same person or persons, he added. He did not know whether the information stolen by the hackers had been used or disseminated for illegal purposes, such as opening bank accounts or obtaining credit cards. He said the hackers discovered a database used to track employees to gather the Social Security numbers and names. They used a program that matched Social Security numbers it generated with the names and Social Security numbers of current and former students. While the database should only have given information for employees in the database who would have completed special training, it offered access to a network of databases with the names and Social Security numbers of current and former students. "Somebody figured out this loophole in our security vulnerability," Updegrove said. "The program was built by my department, so I think I would have to say I am responsible." The thief or thieves used a computer program to query the UT database with 3 million potential Social Security numbers, resulting in about 59,000 hits, or successful matches, Updegrove said. The hackers also obtained e-mail addresses and, for some current faculty and staff members, office addresses and office phone numbers, Updegrove said. He said the university waited to tell the public because it did not want the hackers to know the university was aware of the theft. Updegrove defended the university's decision not to announce the theft right away. It took time to understand the dimensions of the theft, he said. The more urgent task is to track down the perpetrators and recover the data, Updegrove said. To that end, the university has reported the theft to the FBI, the Austin Police Department and other authorities. Cox News Service contributed to this story. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Ray Iddings --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: The Peacenik Top 10 (fwd) Date: 06 Mar 2003 22:06:49 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Glenn & Charlotte Wolf --------------------- The Peacenik Top 10 A look at the ten most popular objections to war and some common-sense responses to them. by Fred Barnes 03/06/2003 12:00:00 AM Fred Barnes, executive editor THOSE OPPOSED to military action in Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein, destroy his weapons of mass destruction, and liberate the 24 million Iraqi citizens under his control cite at least 10 objections to going to war now. These objections range from the arguable to the totally absurd. Let's examine them. (1) Rush to war. This is a favorite of congressional Democrats. But the rush is more like a baby crawl. Iraq has been in material breach of United Nations resolutions since a few weeks after the Gulf War ended in 1991. New resolutions have been approved, inspectors ousted, and the United Nations made to look impotent. President Bush has taken all the steps asked of him before going to war: getting the approval of Congress, getting another U.N. resolution (with perhaps yet another on the way), and building a coalition of supporters. He's hardly rushing. (2) It's a war for oil. The United States could buy all the oil it wants from Iraq by lifting the sanctions and helping to reconstruct the Iraqi oilfields. It's the French and Russians who have oil deals with Saddam and thus are fixated on that issue. They don't want a war that would upset those deals. (3) War with Iraq will bring more terrorism. This is a hardy perennial. It was claimed before the Gulf war and the Afghanistan campaign--and when bombs fell on al Qaeda and the Taliban during Ramadan. Rather than more terrorism, removing Saddam will bring more respect for the United States. Terrorists will be increasingly fearful. (4) The Arab street will erupt. Another perennial. This is often predicted but rarely happens. A swift, decisive victory over Saddam will quiet the Arab street. So far, only the American street has erupted--against the French and Germans. (5) Bush is doing it for his dad. President Bush the elder stopped short of deposing Saddam in the Gulf war and to this day believes he did the right thing. So do his top aides, such as national security adviser Brent Scowcroft. Instead, they agreed to a truce with Saddam conditioned on Iraq's full disarmament. Also, consider the source of this charge: Martin Sheen. (6) Attacking Iraq would be unprovoked aggression. No, it wouldn't. Andrew Sullivan has pointed out a significant fact: There was no peace treaty, only the truce, so the state of war resumes when the conditions are violated. By attacking now, the United States would be ending the war, not starting it. (7) Containment is working. The problem is the right threat is not being contained: the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Sure, with U.S. troops and U.N. inspectors in the area, Saddam won't attack Jordan or Syria or other neighbors. But he could slip chemical or biological agents to terrorists without anyone knowing. And that's the threat. (8) America doesn't have enough allies. What? Forty or so isn't enough? Is the case for war weakened in the slightest by the absence of the French or the Angolans? No. And despite what Democrats like Howard Dean say, a war with Iraq would not be "unilateral," which would mean the United States would be acting alone. (9) Win without war. That's a nice goal. Unfortunately, it's Saddam's goal. With no war, he wins and emerges as the new strongman in the Middle East, forcing people to come to terms with him. (10) Bush is seeking a new American empire. This is a favorite accusation of Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich, the man who once recited the Gettysburg Address in Donald Duck's voice. I'll let Secretary of State Colin Powell answer this one. When hectored by a former archbishop of Canterbury on this subject recently, he said: "We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last 100 years . . . and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in." Well said. No doubt opponents are capable of coming up with new arguments against war with Iraq. They'd better do so soon because so far they haven't convinced anyone outside the reflexively anti-Bush crowd. Glenn & Charlotte Wolf glennw@uslink.net ----------------------- end forwarded message from Glenn & Charlotte Wolf --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: [ALERT] Tell America You Support Our Country! (fwd) Date: 07 Mar 2003 09:30:24 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from ConservativeAlerts.com --------------------- ISSUE: Recently, we alerted our members to a quickly- organized series of "Rallies for America," held across the country from Washington D.C. to California. Tens of thousands of Americans came out to support our President and our troops, despite having little time to prepare to attend. And the media came out in full force to report on all of these rallies, just like they covered the Socialist-led anti-war demonstrations (complete with their vanguard of radical left-wing Hollywood "actors"). Right? Guess again. As you might suppose, the only place you were likely to see ANY mainstream media coverage of these rallies of grassroots support was on Fox News. The silence coming from the major news media was deafening. Well, at ConservativeAlerts.com, we've decided to tackle this liberal media blackout of the "silent majority" head-on, with a two-front "battle strategy"... on the "ground," and in the "air." In the "air," we're going to lead a virtual "March from the Right," to counter the virtual "March on Washington" that the radical left has been trying to pull off. We'll tell you more about that soon, so keep watching your inbox. Our other front, though, is REALLY exciting... and you're going to want to be a part of it. On the "ground," we've set up something we've never done before: we're going to take out a FULL PAGE AD in a NATIONAL NEWSPAPER, giving a strong statement of support for President Bush and our troops, and listing THOUSANDS of Americans' names and hometowns. NO ONE will be able to IGNORE us at that point, regardless of whether the liberal media tries to cover their eyes and ears. WE WILL BE SEEN AND HEARD! BUT... the cost for this ad is very high: $73,100. And we can't afford to make this statement to the whole country without your help TODAY. ACTION ITEM: If every one of our members gave just $30, we could put that national full-page ad up *this week*. But we know that many of our patriotic members just can't afford to give that much -- so some of you might be able to give more to make up for them, maybe as much as $100, $500, or even $1,000. But whatever you can give, even if it's only $10, we'll put YOUR name right there -- in black and white -- in a full-page ad, distributed nationwide in USA TODAY. From New York to California... Florida to Washington... the nation's capital to every single state capital... Americans everywhere will see that they are not alone, and that the grassroots of this great nation support our President and our troops. We're not a non-profit organization, so your contribution is NOT tax-deductible. But we promise this: every dollar that comes in to ConservativeAlerts.com for this project will be SPENT on this project. If we don't get enough to pay for a full page nationwide, we'll buy a half page, or a fourth page, or a full page in a single region... whatever we can afford with what you give. (Smaller page sizes may mean removing contributors' names.) Help us take the first shots in our "battle strategy" to counter the Socialist-led "peace" marchers. Go to the site below to help us pay for a FULL PAGE pro-American ad in USA Today: http://www.campaigncontribution.com/alerts/usatoday2/ AOL GO HERE NOTE: We don't want anyone to be left out. If you can't afford to give ANYTHING right now, go to http://www.conservativealerts.com/usatoday/petition.htm to add your name to our online virtual petition in support of our President and our troops. Be sure to forward this e-mail to everyone you know who wants to help "kick off the battle" on behalf of patriotic Americans. Thank you! Was this message forwarded to you by a friend? You can sign up for the ConservativeAlerts.com Action Alerts for FREE! Go here: http://www.ConservativeAlerts.com/ ----------------------- end forwarded message from ConservativeAlerts.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Sign a Supreme Court brief to keep 'One Nation Under God'! (fwd) Date: 07 Mar 2003 10:41:38 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from American Center for Law and Justice --------------------- Dear Friend; We want you to become part of history as we fight for the constitutionality of the Pledge of Allegiance including the phrase "one nation under God"! Please ADD YOUR NAME to our brief to the Supreme Court of the United States right now! Click on the link below to add your name to the brief: http://www.aclj.net/aclj/supportthepledge.cfm?dn=1008&commid=55482306&id=860188 The Pledge of Allegiance has AGAIN been declared unconstitutional by the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. In a highly unusual move, the Court voted to REJECT a request to rehear Newdow v. United States Congress. WE MUST TAKE A STAND! We are filing a friend-of-the-court brief - representing members of Congress and concerned citizens like you - to the high court, asking them to hear this case. We want HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE from all 50 states to add their name to this brief, so we can show the Supreme Court of the United States that people all over America want this critical case heard! Add your name today to our legal brief! Click on the link below to add your name to the brief: http://www.aclj.net/aclj/supportthepledge.cfm?dn=1008&commid=55482306&id=860188 The Ninth Circuit Court's ruling is out of line and out of touch with American values. The Pledge, after all, is a tradition of patriotism that our schoolchildren have participated in for decades. (And the phrase "under God" comes from President Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address!) The ridiculous and legally flawed ruling could take away a part of our nation's heritage and patriotism for your children, your grandchildren and generations to come. We cannot let this attack go unanswered! Add your name to our brief showing your support of the Pledge including the phrase "one nation under God" and asking the Supreme Court of the United States to review this critical case and affirm the constitutionality of the Pledge. Then forward this email on to your friends and family. We must stand up with one mighty voice. Please add your name to the brief today before it is too late! Click on the link below to add your name to the brief: http://www.aclj.net/aclj/supportthepledge.cfm?dn=1008&commid=55482306&id=860188 If you would like to add your school-age son or daughter to the brief, please click here: http://www.aclj.org/petitions/pledge2/petition_student_form.asp Thank you for your concern and action. You are making a difference for future generations of Americans. _________________________________ As always, let us know of threats to freedom in your area by calling: (757) 226-2489. And tune in to our daily radio program, "Jay Sekulow Live!" Broken links? Contact us! ACLJ Technical Problems http://www.aclj.org/help.asp Please include NAME, PHONE NUMBER and a description of the technical problem you are having with form. Please do not use this for general correspondence as it goes to a technical support area. FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO YOUR FRIENDS? Click on the link below to forward this email message to your friends: http://www.aclj.net/aclj/friend.cfm?dn=1008&commid=55482306&id=860188 ----------------------- end forwarded message from American Center for Law and Justice --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Fiedor Report on the News (fwd) Date: 08 Mar 2003 11:17:38 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Doug Fiedor --------------------- Fiedor Report on the News March 9, 2003 #305 by: Doug Fiedor dfiedor@comcast.net Still here in the asphalt jungle where the roads are bumpy and the streets are rough Previous Editions at: http://www.uhuh.com/reports/headsup/list-hu.htm GOVERNMENT ENABLED PROSTITUTION In Detroit, the world's second oldest profession is taking aim at knocking out the world's oldest profession. Never mind that many people who have received, or are receiving, a paycheck from city government are or have been involved in prostitution in some way. The hunt is on. Except, in this case they are not exactly going after the prostitutes, per se. Hassling the working girls seems to be a lost cause. They pop up faster than spring dandelions on city owned property. And, like the dandelions, there seems to be a large bumper crop of new young ones every year. So, instead of thinning out the crowd of street walkers, local authorities decided to go after the "Johns." It's a revenue enhancement thing for government, after all. Cops and prosecutors will not collect any money for busting hookers. Therefore, they tend to leave the street walkers alone. Fact is, authorities can't even get enough fines from the Johns to make busting them worthwhile. So, government had a better idea: Steal cars. And that's the current policy in a nutshell. When cops bust a guy for soliciting a prostitute, they confiscate the guy's car. And, because many men soliciting prostitutes in Detroit are from the suburbs and drive nice wheels, the suburbanites get targeted first. The prosecutor's office and police department have found confiscating cars to be a great profit center. Since 2001, the City has confiscated about 15,000 vehicles. Of course, that pesky natural law of unintended consequences then kicked in. That is, that profit center then becomes yet another reason to target Johns and leave the street walkers alone so they will keep attracting more business. After all, no street walkers attracting Johns means no more cars confiscated. Is government partly a pimp in this arrangement, or just an enabler? Really, it's hard to tell. What is evident, though, is a lot of people are profiting from this system. Not the Johns, of course. But, no one seems to care about them. This unintended consequences thing goes even deeper, though -- if anyone cares to think about it. Because, this practice by government not only steals cars, it also goes far to ruin otherwise salvageable lives. Fact is, many of each year's new crop of cute, young street walkers are also teenyboppers. Each one is someone's daughter. Most have personal issues in their lives which, given half a chance and a little professional help, could be worked out. But, if they are left to walk the streets for a year or so, all bets are off for recouping anything resembling a "normal" life again. Because, here's one old research physiologist who can offer proof positive that the gleam some may see in the eyes of these young girls is definitely not a twinkle of happiness. It's not, that is, unless you get your happiness from buying a rock of crack to smoke. And there we have the real shame of it all. Police target the Johns, seldom the girls. So, by not getting busted and forced into professional assistance, these teenyboppers can become totally entrenched, within a year, in that morass euphemistically call "the life" on the street. Sure, there is no "profit center" available to bureaucrats helping these girls. But, isn't that type of action more important to society as a whole than confiscating a few cars each year? And, wouldn't such a program help to keep the population of street walkers down considerably? Many of those fresh-faced young girls walking the street would be happy to accept another chance at a normal life. What's needed is a program to take them off the street and get them pointed back in the right direction. Think about it. Because the police state mentality of a program like Detroit's will be proposed in your city soon. THE COMING POLICE STATE [NOTE: This text was first published in the March 7, 1997 newsletter. It was an important message in 1997, but seems even more important today.] Last week we gave Rep. Ron Paul's toll-free Legislative Update number (1-888-322-1414) and suggested that readers listen to his message "The Coming Police State." We were told by a lot of people that they missed it. Originally, that message was part of a one hour speech Rep. Paul made on the floor of the House. And, thanks to Jeff in Michigan, we have the complete text. Below is the shortened version of Rep. Paul's speech recorded as the "Legislative Update:" Centralizing power and consistently expanding the role of the Government requires an army of bureaucrats and a taxing authority upon which a police state thrives. There are over 100 laws on the books permitting private property seizure without due process of law. We have made it easy to seize any property by absurdly claiming the property itself committed the crime. The RICO mentality relating to law enforcement permits even the casual bystander to suffer severely from the police state mentality. The drug war hysteria and the war on gun ownership started by Roosevelt in 1934 have expanded Federal police power to the point that more than 10 percent of all of our police are Federal. The Constitution names but three Federal crimes, so where is the justification? Talk about swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. We have hovering over us daily the Federal police from the EPA, OSHA, FBI, CIA, DEA, EEOC, ADA, F&WL, INS, BATF, and worst of all, the IRS. Even criticizing the IRS makes me cringe that it might precipitate an audit. It seems that all administrations, to some degree, used the power of the agencies to reward or punish financial backers or political enemies. So much [of] that had its origin in the 1930's, it was then that the FBI's role changed from friendly investigator helping local authorities to that of national police force. We live in an age where the fear of an IRS registered letter bearing news of an audit surpasses the fear of a street mugging. The police are supposed to be our friend and the Federal Government the guarantor of our liberties. Ask the blacks in the inner city of Los Angeles if they trust the police and revere the FBI and the CIA. We should not have to cringe when a Federal agent appears at the door of our business. We should not even see them there. A Congress sworn to uphold the Constitution ought to be protecting our right to our property, not confiscating it. Congress ought to protect our right to own a weapon of self-defense, not systematically and viciously attacking that right. Congress ought to guarantee all voluntary association, not regulate and dictate every economic transaction. We should not allow Congress to give credence to inane politically correct rules generated by egalitarian misfits. Setting quotas ought to insult each of us. We need no more centralized police efforts. We need no more wiretaps that have become epidemic in this last decade. We have had enough Wacos and Ruby Ridges. http://www.house.gov/paul FALSE STATEMENTS Those in government tell us exactly what they want us to hear. They often twist the facts, and sometimes even tell outright lies. But, other than the vote, we citizens usually have little recourse. There is, however, a federal law (18 USC 1001), titled "Fraud and False Statements," that is sometimes used against citizens lying to those in government. The full text of the law is short, but rather interesting: "Whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of any department or agency of the United States knowingly and willfully falsifies, conceals or covers up any trick, scheme, or device a material fact (sic), or makes any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or representations, or makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any false, fictitious or fraudulent statements or entry, shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both." The word "whoever" kind of makes the reader believe that the law would apply to public servants as well as to citizens. If so, the effective enforcement of that law could surely bring a little honesty and honor to the halls of government in a hell of a hurry. Most of the halls would soon be empty. But in today's political atmosphere, such convictions would be virtually impossible. Why? Well, first consider the Congressional testimony during the Ruby Ridge and Waco hearings. Then, consider the probable resulting debacle involved with having the Attorney General and his assistants prosecuting other government liars. We would need to triple the number of federal assistant prosecutors and courts to handle the workload. For the Washington crowd, any lie, no matter how outrageous, is justified by calling it "spin." It is their "opinion," they say, no matter how intentionally fraudulent it may be. Even when they knowingly twist or misrepresent facts to deliberately mislead the public, it is still winked at and called an opinion. It doesn't matter that when the establishment press reports these intentional fabrications as news, as they usually do, the lies are often believed to be honest facts by many in the public sector. Apparently, we citizens are supposed to know better. Remember that. You should know better. Unfortunately, the False Statements law is not used against federal law enforcement agents either. A prosecutor, FBI agent, IRS agent -- or any government bureaucrat or agent, for that matter -- can tell a citizen anything they wish. They can also accuse a citizen with any crime they wish. And, other than proving their innocence in court, citizens have absolutely no recourse. The only hope is to catch the lying agent with a perjury charge, if they lie in open court. It's time for some changes, folks. ANOTHER VERY STUPID LAW A woman was arrested at an airport for "possession" of an illegal substance. That's nothing new; except that this woman did not do anything wrong. A stupid federal law states that it is illegal to transport prescription drugs out of the container provided by the pharmacist. Never mind that every drug store in the country sells special containers for just that purpose; under federal law, it is a felony. Compliance with the intent of the law would mean that every person on medication(s) must box up the complete bottles of every medication they will need during every outing. That is foolish, of course. No one does that. However, because of that stupid law, Congress has made nearly every grandmother and grandfather in the country a lawbreaker almost every time they leave the house for any length of time. Yet, the Constitution gives no authority for the federal government to regulate drugs of any kind. There is zero authority for Congress to even consider this subject. Let's tell them to repeal that foolishness. NOTES ON THE CONSTITUTION For some reason, many in the Washington bureaucracy seem to think that spying on American citizens is a right of government. Obviously, it has not occurred to anyone in the White House, the spook agencies, the Department of Justice, and now even the Department of Defense, that they have no authority to be snooping on us. Absolutely none. The bureaucratically inconvenient words in the Fourth Amendment that supposedly limit their spying on citizens are: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." The operative words "shall not be violated" seem rather understandable to most people, just not to politicians and bureaucrats. Note, also, that the authors of the amendment did not leave any wiggle room in the clause. The amendment was edited by the greatest legal minds of the day, in both houses of Congress, and says exactly what they meant -- in very clear English. Also, the intent of the Founding Fathers was that every word of our Constitution is to apply equally to every official in government -- especially to the policing agencies and tax collectors. So, who in government can be depended upon to defend our Fourth Amendment, and our right to privacy? Apparently, no one in Washington. Listen closely. Do you hear any words of support for your individual rights, liberties and privacy coming from your elected officials? Of course not. Just the opposite, in fact. What the Washington bureaucracy seems to be telling the American people, in effect, is that the Rule of Law is dead and the Constitution is no longer really the law of the land. ~ End ~ ----------------------- end forwarded message from Doug Fiedor --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: 'AW' Ban Poll. NSSF Statement On NJ Allowing Lawsuit. (fwd) Date: 11 Mar 2003 20:55:49 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- FYI - poll to get your teeth into... about half way on the right side and let them know what you think. So far it's running about 86% opposing the ban. (thx mike 0) Assault weapons ban poll: http://www.sopris.net/ -------------- ----------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: [ALERT] Support the Citizens' Self-Defense Act (fwd) Date: 11 Mar 2003 21:21:04 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from ConservativeAlerts.com --------------------- This CONSERVATIVE ALERT prepared for Bill Vance: ISSUE: Recently, we alerted you to yet another instance of an over-zealous prosecutor pressing charges against a homeowner that used a gun to protect his family against a home invader. Unfortunately, this happens more than anyone cares to admit. Now, Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) has introduced HR 648, the "Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2003", to counter these mis-directed prosecutions and blatant violations of American citizens' Second Amendment rights. HR 648 was introduced to "protect the right to obtain firearms for security, and to use firearms in defense of self, family, or home, and to provide for the enforcement of such right." The bill notes that police "cannot protect, and are not legally liable for failing to protect, individual citizens," and that citizens "frequently must use firearms to defend themselves." It also notes that "Law-abiding citizens, seeking only to provide for their families' defense, are routinely prosecuted for brandishing or using a firearm in self- defense." Rep. Wilson's bill seeks to correct this fact; we need to help him get this bill passed. ACTION ITEM: The courts have granted immunity from prosecution to police officers who use firearms in the line of duty. Similarly, law-abiding citizens who use firearms to protect themselves, their families, and their homes against violent felons should not be subject to lawsuits by the violent felons who sought to victimize them. Contact your legislators and ask them to support HR 648, the "Citizens' Self-Defense Act of 2003". Go to the site below to send your Congressman and two Senators a direct message: http://www.conservativealerts.com/031103.htm AOL GO HERE NOTE: Be sure to forward this e-mail to everyone you know who believes that Americans should be guaranteed a basic right to protect their own families in their own homes. Thank you! You are receiving this communication because you requested to be e-mailed regarding issues and offers of interest to conservatives, either when you sent an e-mail to Congress, signed an online petition, sent a FedEx, faxgram or mailgram, or when you donated to a conservative cause or candidate on the Internet or through postal mail. You are currently subscribed as: bill@xpresso.seaslug.org To manage your subscription, either send an email to leave-conservativealerts-2464512I@list.conservativealerts.com or go to http://silver.lyris.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=conservativealerts and follow instructions there. Was this message forwarded to you by a friend? You can sign up for the ConservativeAlerts.com Action Alerts for FREE! Go here: http://www.ConservativeAlerts.com/ ----------------------- end forwarded message from ConservativeAlerts.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On THee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc Subject: 5 Years -- Jim Bohan RIP Date: 12 Mar 2003 03:21:46 -0700 Hi All I was just laying in bed this evening, cradling my new son, when I started to think about my past 10 years. It was almost 9-10 years ago that ROC started as a list, when Larry Ball of NE and I got it going, and 9 years ago when the "Defoleyate Congress" campaign started right here in the ROC mail list. Jim "Loboazul" Bohan was the moving force behind the defoleyate congress effort (along with many other important people who played various roles in Spokane and elsewhere), as well as the noban mail list (sponsored by Mainstream of Merrimack NH), and getting the LA governor elected. Besides knowing Jim through the list here, and through many phone calls and personal emails, I met him at the 94 Gun Rights Rally in DC, where a bunch of us planned efforts, and organized some more for the gun rights fights. He was a personal friend. It was about 5 years ago (I don't remember exactly when) that Jim passed away. He has been missed. As I laid in bed tonight, I started to think what Jim would have had to say about the various issues as they have evolved. About George W, Iraq, the various gun issues, etc. Jim was a great guy and a great fighter. Let's all remember Jim as we "gird up our loins"[1] and continue the fight. The Assault Weapon ban expires in September 94, I believe. The original passage of the AW ban was the motivating force behind Jim and ROC and Defoleyate Congress. When Rep Foley of WA, Speaker of the House, held the gavel so that over due votes could be made or changed, that infuriated us. As the AW ban comes up for renewal, let us remember Jim and the whole effort of 94, and make a double big effort in 04 to keep the AW ban from being renewed. Loboazul, we miss you. Jim Bohan, RIP Chad Leigh ROC maintainer [1] archaic type expression, scriptural in origin I believe PS: For some fun about Jim Bohan, go type "Jim Bohan" into GOOGLE. All those movie links ARE about Jim... He was in movies before "retiring" to Texas and his ranch and the political fight. Along with acting in American Graffiti and others, I believe he had his own indie distribution company. He was also writing a novel... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: [alert] Washington State - HB 1210 (fwd) Date: 16 Mar 2003 11:29:06 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Ned Kelly --------------------- HB 1210 I "tried" to read it, this is a long one, it looks like it has everything but the kitchen sink in it. Making anything from talcum powder to toy guns some kind of "weapon of mass destruction". Made eligible to be placed on second reading on Mar 4. There is an "amendment" to make all firearms[?] a WMD... 1210 AMH DARN MORI 12 {+ HB 1210 +} - H AMD By Representative Darneille On page 3, line 16, after "device," insert "including, but not limited to, a firearm," {+ EFFECT: +} Clarifies that a firearm is included in the definition of "weapon of mass destruction." The bill .... http://www.leg.wa.gov/wsladm/billinfo/dspBillSummary.cfm?billnumber =1210 ----------------------- end forwarded message from Ned Kelly --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: HB 1210 - foot note (fwd) Date: 16 Mar 2003 11:29:38 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Ned Kelly --------------------- Looks like Colt is stepping in on this one...... http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134653784_guns15 m.html Connecticut gun maker Colt's Manufacturing wrote legislative leaders last week, saying Darneille's move "is an attempt to regulate gun control." The company said the amendment would "permit any gun to be considered a weapon of mass destruction." ----------------------- end forwarded message from Ned Kelly --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: MSNBC Poll: Bush And Iraq War Poll. (fwd) Date: 17 Mar 2003 19:39:54 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- FYI - Heres a chance to tell MSNBC News what you think about Bush and Iraq in this indepth poll. http://www.msnbc.com/news/885692.asp?0cl=cR 30938 web site responses * Percentages may not total to 100% for each question due to non-responses 1. Do you approve of the way George W. Bush is handling his job as President? Newsweek Yes 56% 53% No 42% 37% Don't Know 2% 10% 2. Do you support the Bush Administration using military force against Iraq? Newsweek Yes 61% 70% No 36% 24% Don't know 3% 6% 3. In the long run, do you think more Americans will be killed or injured in future terrorist attacks: Newsweek If the United States attacks Iraq to try to remove Saddam Hussein from power 33% 38% If the United States does NOT attack Iraq and Saddam Hussein remains in power 43% 41% Same/Won't make much difference 21% 14% Don't know 3% 7% 4. Do you think international organizations like the United Nations do more to: Newsweek Help the United States solve problems in cooperation with other countries 32% 47% Create obstacles to Americans' security 40% 38% Both equally 16% 5% Neither 9% 2% Don't know 3% 8% 5. What do you think anti-American feelings around the world these days result more from: Newsweek The fact that we are the most powerful country in the world 44% 42% Recent U.S. policies and diplomatic efforts that seem arrogant and bullying to people in other countries 48% 46% Neither/Other 7% 6% Don't know 1% 6% 6. In general, do you think people in other countries have good reasons to feel threatened by U.S. military power today, OR that they should NOT feel threatened because the U.S. is different from other powerful nations and will use power for moral purposes? Newsweek Have good reasons to feel threatened 36% 24% Should not feel threatened 60% 68% Don't know 3% 8% -------------------------------------------------- Iraq: Pay the ferryman now or pay him later with interest... you chose. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Listing of French Products & Companies (fwd) Date: 17 Mar 2003 20:25:54 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from CitizensLobby.com --= ------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SPECIAL CITIZENS UPDATE from http://www.citizenslobby.com Washington, DC * March 17, 2003 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dear fellow citizens, In response to requests for more information on the "Boycott France" campaign, we are providing this listing of French products to boycott, compiled by NewsMax.com, which is leading the boycott campaign. Regards, CitizensLobby.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ URGENT NOTICE: The following is a special message and report from NewsMax.com RE: the "Boycott France" Campaign. Please review this list of major French companies below that Americans should boycott. Millions of Americans are joining the Boycott France campaign led by NewsMax.com Please forward this e-mail to as many friends and family as possible. If everyone who gets this list from NewsMax would send it to just two friends, within 10 days, more than 100 million people will be contacted! Again, please review the e-mail below, print it out, copy it, and share it with your friends and family. NewsMax.com, America's news page, is taking the lead. NewsMax unabashedly stands for America and American values. Click this link below to join the "Boycott Campaign": https://www.newsmaxstore.com/contribute/france/index.cfm?refid=3D71 NewsMax.com is leading the Boycott France campaign because American lives and security is at stake. France has every right to disagree with America. But France has moved from simple dissent to active hostility toward America. French President Chirac warned East European nations that if they side with America, France will oppose their membership in the European Union. Last week, William Safire reported in the New York Times that France has been secretly helping to arm Iraq -- and has been helping Iraq build long range missiles. These same missiles may soon be used against American soldiers. Just as France is exercising its right to disagree, Americans can exercise their right to boycott -- and avoid helping companies and countries that do no stand with America. FRENCH PRODUCTS & COMPANIES TO BOYCOTT The following companies are subject to boycott: ** Air France. Air Liquide. Airbus. Alcatel. Allegra (allergy medication). Aqualung (including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers, and SeaQuest). AXA Advisors. ** Bank of the West (owned by BNP Paribas). Beneteau (boats). BF Goodrich (owned by Michelin). BIC (razors, pens and lighters). Biotherm (cosmetics). Black Bush. Bollinger (champagne). ** Car & Driver Magazine. Cartier. Chanel. Chivas Regal (scotch). Christian Dior. Club Med (vacations). Culligan (owned by Vivendi). ** Dannon (yogurt and dairy foods). DKNY. Dom Perignon. Durand Crystal. ** Elle Magazine. Essilor Optical Products. Evian. ** Fina gas stations and Fina Oil (billions invested in Iraqi oil fields). First Hawaiian Bank. ** George Magazine. Givenchy. Glenlivet (scotch). ** Hennessy. Houghton Mifflin (books). ** Jacobs Creek (owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989). Jameson (whiskey). Jerry Springer (talk show) ** Krups (coffee and cappuccino makers). ** Lancome. Le Creuset (cookware). L'Oreal (health and beauty products). Louis Vuitton. ** Marie Claire. Martel Cognac. Maybelline. M=E9phisto (shoes and clothes). Michelin (tires and auto parts). Mikasa (crystal and glass). Moet (champagne). Motel 6. Motown Records. MP3.com. Mumms (champagne). ** Nissan (cars; majority owned by Renault). Nivea. Normany Butter. ** Parents Magazine. Peugeot (automobiles). Pierre Cardin. Playstation Magazine. ProScan (owned by Thomson Electronics, France). Publicis Group (including Saatchi & Saatchi Advertising). ** RCA (televisions and electronics; owned by Thomson Electronics). Red Magazine. Red Roof Inns (owned by Accor group in France). Renault (automobiles). Road & Track Magazine. Roquefort cheese (all Roquefort cheese is made in France). Rowenta (toasters, irons, coffee makers, etc.). Royal Canadian. ** Salomon (skis). Sierra Software and Computer Games. Smart & Final. Sofitel (hotels, owned by Accor). Sparkletts (water, owned by Danone). Spencer Gifts. Sundance Channel. ** Taylor Made (golf). Technicolor. T-Fal (kitchenware). Total gas stations. ** UbiSoft (computer games). Uniroyal. Universal Studios (music, movies and amusement parks; owned by Vivendi -Universal). USFilter. ** Veritas Group. Veuve Clicquot Champagne. Vittel. Vivendi. ** Wild Turkey (bourbon). Woman's Day Magazine. ** Yoplait (The French company Sodiaal owns a 50 percent stake). Yves Saint Laurent. ** Zodiac Inflatable Boats. Please e-mail this to as many friends and family as you can. Send a message to France that will not be forgotten! Also, join NewsMax's "Boycott France" campaign, if you have not done so already. Click this link below: https://www.newsmaxstore.com/contribute/france/index.cfm?refid=3D71 Thank you for your support, NewsMax.com [This message brought to you by CitizensLobby.com Inquiries can be e-mailed to: comments@citizenslobby.com] c#3 ----------------------- end forwarded message from CitizensLobby.com ----= ----------------- -- --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-= 19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! --- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Rallies for America / RightMarch.com (fwd) Date: 20 Mar 2003 15:11:31 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from CitizensLobby.com --------------------- March 20, 2003 Dear fellow citizen, The following is an urgent message from one of the sponsors of the "Rallies for America." Please read this letter. It is imperative that citizens across the country show their support for our troops in battle. Our soldiers need to know that the anti-war, anti-American leftists do not represent the majority! Regards, CitizensLobby.com URGENT MESSAGE RE: Rallies for America FROM: Phil Sheldon, ConservativePetitions.com BREAK THE SILENCE BY MAINSTREAM MEDIA, VOICE YOUR SUPPORT OF PRESIDENT, TROOPS Mainstream media are quick to cover Socialist-led anti-war demonstrations, especially those with radical left-wing Hollywood "actors," but they ignore the hundreds of thousands of regular Americans at dozens of "Rallies for America" held across the country from Washington D.C. to California. Here's your chance to speak up: Let your voice be heard at http://www.rightmarch.com These rallies represent just the tip of the iceberg of America's "silent majority" -- decent, hard-working patriotic Americans who support our President and our troops. It's time for the media to stop ignoring the voices of average Americans. Break the silence and voice your support loud and clear at http://www.rightmarch.com. Sign your name in solidarity with millions of Americans nationwide who have been silenced by the mainstream media. Support President Bush and all of our troops, at home and abroad. After signing, you will go to a webpage with a link to a schedule for upcoming "Rallies for America." More will be happening this weekend. Phil Sheldon ConservativePetitions.com P.S. Make your stand here and now! Take action in answer to the many misguided protestors, who hog the media and clamor for peace at the expense of continued terrorist catastrophes. Here's where to support President Bush and our troops to victoriously do what must be done: http://www.rightmarch.com [This message brought to you by CitizensLobby.com E-mail your inquiries to: comments@citizenslobby.com Thank you] c#3 ----------------------- end forwarded message from CitizensLobby.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: THANK SEARS FOR HELPING OUR TROOPS! (fwd) Date: 24 Mar 2003 17:23:26 -0800 (PST) Sure beats Kootie-Mart all hollow! Bill ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Bruce Chesley --------------------- I have re confirmed with Sears that this is true. Bruce Chesley Truth is a terrible cross to bear. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.". Thomas Paine Treason for $$$: ALL "pro 2A" orgs. ----- Forwarded Message ----- I received an e-mail stating Sears was financially assisting our military boys who are employed at Sears and being called to military duty. Not wanting to forward wrongful information, I called Sears at 800-349-4358 and talked to Karen who verified this information to be true!! I read the following e-mail to Karen and she talked to another official and she said the content is correct. Biblebum SHOP AT SEARS and TELL THEM THANKS FOR HELPING OUR TROOPS!!! IT IS ALL ABOUT HOW YOU TREAT THE PROTECTORS OF OUR LAND. I assume you have all seen the reports about how Sears is treating its reservist employees who are called up? By law, they are required to hold their jobs open and available, but nothing more. Usually, people take a big pay cut and lose benefits as a result of being called up... Sears is voluntarily paying the difference in salaries and maintaining all benefits, including medical insurance and bonus programs, for all called up reservist employees for up to two years. I submit that Sears is an exemplary corporate citizen and should be recognized for its contribution. I suggest we all shop at Sears, and be sure to find a manager to tell them why we are there so the company gets the positive reinforcement it well deserves. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Bruce Chesley --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 25 Mar 2003 11:47:37 -0800 (PST) Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. Hey, if the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) Bill ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com --------------------- Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM Rense.com Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors >From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee 3-23-3 Dear friends, This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life imprisonment. I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR (specifics below). Coheartedly, Tom PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon laws which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration violations. _____ Excerpts from the proposed law: http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 OREGON LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 Senator MINNIS SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. SECTION 1. (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or its inhabitants. (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires to do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... _ _ _ _ _ The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 Address: Web page Address: _ _ _ _ _ An opportunity to make your opinions known: I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence with no parole. SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 boycotters, marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). _ _ __ The Alert from the American Civil Liberties Union ACLU of Oregon Email Activist Network ACLU- OR Action: SB 742 Hearing on Monday, March 24 We need you in Salem at 8:00 a.m. on Monday. SB 742 has been set for=20 a hearing on Monday, March 24 at 8:00 a.m. in Senate Judiciary, Room 343. SB 742 creates the crime of "terrorism" and defines it so broadly that individuals would be subject to life in prison if any other participant intended to disrupt commerce, transportation, educational, or governmental institutions (such as, strikes, protests, student food fights). So you can read it for yourself, here's the link to the bill: WE NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THIS BILL NOW. 1) ATTEND MONDAYS 8AM HEARING. We want to pack the room with as=20 many of our supporters as possible. We'll give you a sticker, identifying you as a supporter when you get to the hearing room. **Please know that there will be amendments to Section 1 to limit the current drafted definition of "Terrorism." BUT -- there are no amendments to Section 2, that allows for law enforcement to ignore ORS 181.575 & ORS 181.850 if they are investigating "terrorism." (See the attachment on 181 Campaign Talking Points. If you have difficulty opening attachments, we've also included the talking points below). 2) CONTINUE CALLS to Senators Burdick, Ringo, Walker, Courtney & Brown. 3) CALL Republican Senators Minnis, Starr and Ferrioli who sit on the Senate Judiciary to let them know you OPPOSE SB 742 (contact at end of e-mail) Please call them even if you are not in their District. This is an Oregon issue, not a district issue. Here's the contact information. Senator John Minnis, Chair Party: R District: 25 Capitol Phone: 503-986- 1725 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-311, Salem Or=20 97301 Email Address: Web page Address: Senator Ginny Burdick, Vice-Chair Party: D District: 18 Capitol Phone: 503- 986-1718 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-317, Salem Or=20 97301 Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: Senator Ted Ferrioli Party: R District: 30 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1730 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-217, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 Address: Web page Address: Senator Charlie Ringo Party: D District: 17 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1717 Capitol Address: 900 Court St NE S-314 Salem, OR=20 97301 Email Address: Web page Address: Senator Charles Starr Party: R District: 13 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1713 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-312, Salem Or=20 97301 Email Address: Web page Address: Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 Address: Web page Address: Senate Leadership: Senate President Peter Courtney Party: D District: 11 Capitol Phone: 503- 986-1600 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-203, Salem Or=20 97301 Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: Senator Kate Brown, Democrat Leader Party: D District: 21 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1700 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-323, Salem=20 Or 97301 Capitol Fax:503-986-1080 Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: 181 CAMPAIGN TALKING POINTS Don't Let Oregon Police Be Used For Political Spying Or As Federal INS Agents. Current Status: SB 742 is set for a hearing on Monday, MARCH 24, 8:00 a.m in Senate Judiciary (Room 343). SB 742 creates crime of "terrorism" and defines it so broadly that individuals would be subject to life in prison if any other participant intended to disrupt commerce, transportation, educational, or governmental institutions (such as, strikes, protests, student food fights). More importantly, it would also allow state and local law enforcement to ignore both ORS 181.575 & ORS 181.850 if=20 investigating "terrorism." This basically unravels the protections that these laws provide! Who We Are: We are a growing and diverse coalition of Oregon organizations. We include representatives of organizations working in civil rights, law enforcement, domestic violence, immigration, religious, labor, environmental, grassroots and advocacy communities. We share the common goal of preserving ORS 181.575 and ORS 181.850 because=20 they encourage effective law enforcement and protect the constitutional rights of everyone who lives in Oregon. For a list of the dozens of coalition members see What are these "181 Laws" all about? ORS 181.575: Protects Against Police Spying on Innocent People and Organizations: The law prohibits law enforcement agencies from collecting or maintaining information about the political, religious, social views, associations or activities of any person or group unless that information directly relates to a criminal investigation. Oregon's History of Abuse: From the creation of the Portland Police "Red Squad" in the 1940s until the passage of this law in 1981, hundreds of political, religious and other organizations were the subjects of FBI and police surveillance for no valid reason. A recent series in the Portland Tribune (September 2002) uncovered Portland police intelligence files tracking groups such as ACLU of Oregon, American Friends Service Committee (Quakers), Coalition Against Domestic Violence, Ecumenical Ministries of Oregon, Hispanic Commission, Peace House, Planned Parenthood, Rape Relief Hotline, Sierra Club, United Farm Workers and many more. ORS 181.850: Allows State & Local Law Enforcement to Focus on Oregon Priorities: This law prevents state and local law enforcement agencies from targeting people based on their race or ethnic origin when those individuals are not suspected of any criminal activity. Local law enforcement is prohibited from using resources to apprehend people whose only offense is a federal immigration violation. The law allows state and local law enforcement to contact the INS after they have arrested someone. The law also permits state and local police to request information from the INS that may help solve a criminal case. This law does not prevent local law enforcement from working with federal law enforcement to investigate threats of terrorism. History: In the 1980s, several local law enforcement agencies carried out raids and roadblocks in collaboration with the INS targeting Oregon's Latino community. Many lawful residents and US citizens were swept up in the raids and were treated harshly by local police and INS agents. Passage of ORS181.850 in 1987 has not completely eliminated such practices, but has helped create dramatic improvements in the relationship between immigrants and the police. Why We Need to Keep Both Laws: @ They Help Prevent & Solve Crimes: Many law enforcement officials support these laws because in communities where people are afraid to talk to police, more crimes go unreported, fewer witnesses come forward, and people are less likely to report suspicious activity. For example, without this law, domestic violence cases will go unreported, leading to injury or death. @ They Help Build Trust in Communities: Many immigrants come from countries where people are afraid of the police, and many Oregon police agencies have spent years building trust that would be undermined by asking local police to do the job of the INS. Police surveillance of lawful political and religious activity also undermines the credibility of law enforcement. Repeal of these laws would undermine the ability of police to carry out community policing. @ They Help Keep Priorities in Focus: State and local budgets have been cut to the bone. There are many federal agencies to enforce federal laws, but only our state and local police can enforce state and local laws. Especially in these times of tight budgets, they need to concentrate on local priorities and local crimes that the federal government won't enforce. =A0 -------------------------------------------------------------------- =A0 --- PERMISSION IS GRANTED TO FORWARD THIS ACLU MESSAGE. --------------------------- ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU OF OREGON Web Page: To subscribe to the ACLU of Oregon Email Activist Network, send e-mail to aclu_eug@efn.org and say "subscribe aclu-oregon" in the body of the message. To be taken off the Email Activist Network, send e- mail to aclu_eug@efn.org and say "signoff aclu- oregon" in the body of the message. -- ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE ACLU Freedom Network Web Page: http://www.aclu.org. Constitution Hall on America Online (keyword ACLU) ACLU Action Update ACLU National Washington Office 122 Maryland=20 Avenue NE Washington, DC 20002 To subscribe to the national ACLU Action List, send a message to with "subscribe action" in the body of the message. To end your subscription, send a message to with "unsubscribe action" in the body of the message. For general information about the national ACLU, write to _____________________________ Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * PO Box 493 * Eugene, OR 97440 http://www.co-intelligence.org * http://www.democracyinnovations.org Please support our work. * Your donations are fully tax-deductible. ________________________________ **************************** FAIR USE NOTICE This message may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not specifically been authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available in an effort to advance the understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, religious, spiritual, and social justice issues. We believe this constitutes a "fair use" of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit educational and research purposes. For more information on fair use, please go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml If you wish to use copyrighted material for purposes of your own which go beyond "fair use," we suggest that you obtain permission from the copyright owner. Libertarian Socialist News ATTN:=A0 Bill White, Editor Post Office Box 12244 Silver Spring, MD 20908 http://www.overthrow.com (check out our messageboards -- discuss this story on-line!) ----------------------- end forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 25 Mar 2003 15:25:56 -0700 ok folks this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't mean it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are bad on a couple, like RKBA. Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to jail for life for rallying for that? What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... Chad On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > > Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. > Hey, if > the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) > > Bill > > > ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com > --------------------- > > From: BOBWORN@aol.com > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST > Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War > Demonstrators > > Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators > Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" > > 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM > Rense.com > > Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com > > Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors > >> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee > > 3-23-3 > > Dear friends, > > This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to > democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. > > Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / > Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime > of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis > defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a > demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life > imprisonment. > > I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the > link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the > American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact > information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. > > Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have > been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include > anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be > subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious > suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically > nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. > > If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states > will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. > > I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon > resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State > Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in > addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR > (specifics below). > > Coheartedly, > Tom > > PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon laws > which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and > organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration > violations. > > _____ > > Excerpts from the proposed law: > > http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 > OREGON > LEGISLATIVE > ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 > Senator > MINNIS > > SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. > > SECTION 1. > > (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly > plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at > least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly > assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or > the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The > educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or its > inhabitants. > > (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires to > do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. > .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by > imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism > under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined > for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to > post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of > temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... > > _ _ _ _ _ > > The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): > > Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 > Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 > Address: > Web page Address: > > > _ _ _ _ _ > > An opportunity to make your opinions known: > > Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick > Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem > > I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties > Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 > a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. > Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and > expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" > could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence > with no parole. > > SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement > will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven > application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil > rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 > boycotters, > marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and > sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do > today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. > > This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to > attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and > let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). > > _ _ __ > > The Alert from the American Civil Liberties Union > > ACLU of Oregon Email Activist Network > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- *** > ACLU- OR Action: SB 742 Hearing on Monday, March 24 > --------------------------------- ------------------------------- > > We need you in Salem at 8:00 a.m. on Monday. SB 742 has been set for=20 > a > hearing on Monday, March 24 at 8:00 a.m. in Senate Judiciary, Room > 343. > > SB 742 creates the crime of "terrorism" and defines it so broadly that > individuals would be subject to life in prison if any other > participant intended to disrupt commerce, transportation, educational, > or governmental institutions (such as, strikes, protests, student food > fights). > > So you can read it for yourself, here's the link to the bill: > > > WE NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THIS BILL NOW. > > 1) ATTEND MONDAYS 8AM HEARING. We want to pack the room with as=20 > many > of our supporters as possible. We'll give you a sticker, identifying > you as a supporter when you get to the hearing room. > > **Please know that there will be amendments to Section 1 to limit the > current drafted definition of "Terrorism." BUT -- there are no > amendments to Section 2, that allows for law enforcement to ignore ORS > 181.575 & ORS 181.850 if they are investigating "terrorism." (See the > attachment on 181 Campaign Talking Points. If you have difficulty > opening attachments, we've also included the talking points below). > > 2) CONTINUE CALLS to Senators Burdick, Ringo, Walker, Courtney & > Brown. > > 3) CALL Republican Senators Minnis, Starr and Ferrioli who sit on the > Senate Judiciary to let them know you OPPOSE SB 742 (contact at end of > e-mail) > > Please call them even if you are not in their District. This is an > Oregon issue, not a district issue. > > Here's the contact information. > > Senator John Minnis, Chair Party: R District: 25 Capitol Phone: > 503-986- 1725 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-311, Salem Or=20 > 97301 > Email Address: > Web page Address: > > > Senator Ginny Burdick, Vice-Chair Party: D District: 18 Capitol Phone: > 503- 986-1718 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-317, Salem Or=20 > 97301 > Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: > > > Senator Ted Ferrioli Party: R District: 30 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1730 > Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-217, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 > Address: > Web page Address: > > > Senator Charlie Ringo Party: D District: 17 Capitol Phone: > 503-986-1717 Capitol Address: 900 Court St NE S-314 Salem, OR=20 > 97301 > Email Address: > Web page Address: > > > Senator Charles Starr Party: R District: 13 Capitol Phone: > 503-986-1713 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-312, Salem Or=20 > 97301 > Email Address: > Web page Address: > > > Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 > Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 > Address: > Web page Address: > > > Senate Leadership: > > Senate President Peter Courtney Party: D District: 11 Capitol Phone: > 503- 986-1600 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-203, Salem Or=20 > 97301 > Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: > > > Senator Kate Brown, Democrat Leader Party: D District: 21 Capitol > Phone: 503-986-1700 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-323, Salem=20 > Or > 97301 Capitol Fax:503-986-1080 Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > 181 CAMPAIGN TALKING POINTS Don't Let Oregon Police Be Used For > Political Spying Or As Federal INS Agents. > > Current Status: SB 742 is set for a hearing on Monday, MARCH 24, 8:00 > a.m in Senate Judiciary (Room 343). > > SB 742 creates crime of "terrorism" and defines it so broadly that > individuals would be subject to life in prison if any other > participant intended to disrupt commerce, transportation, educational, > or governmental institutions (such as, strikes, protests, student food > fights). More importantly, it would also allow state and local law > enforcement to ignore both ORS 181.575 & ORS 181.850 if=20 > investigating > "terrorism." This basically unravels the protections that these laws > provide! > > Who We Are: We are a growing and diverse coalition of Oregon > organizations. > We include representatives of organizations working in civil rights, > law enforcement, domestic violence, immigration, religious, labor, > environmental, grassroots and advocacy communities. We share the > common goal of preserving ORS 181.575 and ORS 181.850 because=20 > they > encourage effective law enforcement and protect the constitutional > rights of everyone who lives in Oregon. > > For a list of the dozens of coalition members see > > What are these "181 Laws" all about? > > ORS 181.575: Protects Against Police Spying on Innocent People and > Organizations: The law prohibits law enforcement agencies from > collecting or maintaining information about the political, religious, > social views, associations or activities of any person or group unless > that information directly relates to a criminal investigation. > > Oregon's History of Abuse: From the creation of the Portland Police > "Red Squad" in the 1940s until the passage of this law in 1981, > hundreds of political, religious and other organizations were the > subjects of FBI and police surveillance for no valid reason. A recent > series in the Portland Tribune (September 2002) uncovered Portland > police intelligence files tracking groups such as ACLU of Oregon, > American Friends Service Committee (Quakers), Coalition Against > Domestic Violence, Ecumenical Ministries of Oregon, Hispanic > Commission, Peace House, Planned Parenthood, Rape Relief Hotline, > Sierra Club, United Farm Workers and many more. > > ORS 181.850: Allows State & Local Law Enforcement to Focus on Oregon > Priorities: This law prevents state and local law enforcement agencies > from targeting people based on their race or ethnic origin when those > individuals are not suspected of any criminal activity. > > Local law enforcement is prohibited from using resources to apprehend > people whose only offense is a federal immigration violation. The law > allows state and local law enforcement to contact the INS after they > have arrested someone. The law also permits state and local police to > request information from the INS that may help solve a criminal case. > > This law does not prevent local law enforcement from working with > federal law enforcement to investigate threats of terrorism. > > History: In the 1980s, several local law enforcement agencies carried > out raids and roadblocks in collaboration with the INS targeting > Oregon's Latino community. Many lawful residents and US citizens were > swept up in the raids and were treated harshly by local police and INS > agents. Passage of ORS181.850 in 1987 has not completely eliminated > such practices, but has helped create dramatic improvements in the > relationship between immigrants and the police. > > Why We Need to Keep Both Laws: > > @ They Help Prevent & Solve Crimes: Many law enforcement officials > support these laws because in communities where people are afraid to > talk to police, more crimes go unreported, fewer witnesses come > forward, and people are less likely to report suspicious activity. For > example, without this law, domestic violence cases will go unreported, > leading to injury or death. > > @ They Help Build Trust in Communities: Many immigrants come from > countries where people are afraid of the police, and many Oregon > police agencies have spent years building trust that would be > undermined by asking local police to do the job of the INS. Police > surveillance of lawful political and religious activity also > undermines the credibility of law enforcement. Repeal of these laws > would undermine the ability of police to carry out community policing. > > @ They Help Keep Priorities in Focus: State and local budgets have > been cut to the bone. There are many federal agencies to enforce > federal laws, but only our state and local police can enforce state > and local laws. Especially in these times of tight budgets, they need > to concentrate on local priorities and local crimes that the federal > government won't enforce. > > =A0 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > =A0 --- > PERMISSION IS GRANTED TO FORWARD THIS ACLU > MESSAGE. --------------------------- > -------------------------------------------- > ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU OF OREGON > > Web Page: > > To subscribe to the ACLU of Oregon Email Activist Network, send e-mail > to aclu_eug@efn.org and say "subscribe aclu-oregon" in the body of the > message. To be taken off the Email Activist Network, send e- mail to > aclu_eug@efn.org and say "signoff aclu- oregon" in the body of the > message. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE > > ACLU Freedom Network Web Page: http://www.aclu.org. > Constitution Hall on America Online (keyword ACLU) > > ACLU Action Update ACLU National Washington Office 122 Maryland=20 > Avenue > NE Washington, DC 20002 > > To subscribe to the national ACLU Action List, send a message to > with "subscribe action" in the > body of the message. To end your subscription, send a message to > with "unsubscribe action" in the body of the > message. > > For general information about the national ACLU, write to > > > _____________________________ > > Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * PO Box 493 * Eugene, OR > 97440 http://www.co-intelligence.org * > http://www.democracyinnovations.org Please support our work. * Your > donations are fully tax-deductible. > > ________________________________ > > > **************************** > > FAIR USE NOTICE This message may contain copyrighted material the use > of which has not specifically been authorized by the copyright owner. > We are making such material available in an effort to advance the > understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, > democratic, scientific, religious, spiritual, and social justice > issues. We believe this constitutes a "fair use" of any such > copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US > Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this > material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a > prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit > educational and research purposes. For more information on fair use, > please go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml If you > wish to use copyrighted material for purposes of your own which go > beyond "fair use," we suggest that you obtain permission from the > copyright owner. > > Libertarian Socialist News > ATTN:=A0 Bill White, Editor > Post Office Box 12244 > Silver Spring, MD 20908 > > http://www.overthrow.com > (check out our messageboards -- discuss this story on-line!) > > > ----------------------- end forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com > --------------------- > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** > 4-19! > ----------------+----------+-------------------------- > +--------------------- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who > hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and > buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus > Christ > ----------------+----------+-------------------------- > +--------------------- > > Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE > CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 25 Mar 2003 15:20:55 -0800 (PST) Horse Puckey! It's not a law against demonstrating/protesting, it's a law against committing crimes while doing do. _NO_ONE_ has the, "Right", to commit crimes without paying the price for comitting them. Ya wanna protest/ demonstrate, fine, do so. Ya wanna commit crimes while you do so, fine, pay the price. Personally I can't think of a better way to remove slack jawed, drooling Leftist morons, from the voting/gene pool, with the possible exception of doing so in a permanent manner. Bill On Tue Mar 25 14:25:56 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: >ok folks > >this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't mean >it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are bad >on a couple, like RKBA. > >Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens >when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to >jail for life for rallying for that? > >What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... > >Chad > > >On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org >wrote: > >> >> Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. >> Hey, if >> the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) >> >> Bill >> >> >> ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com >> --------------------- >> >> From: BOBWORN@aol.com >> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST >> Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War >> Demonstrators >> >> Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators >> Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" >> >> 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM >> Rense.com >> >> Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com >> >> Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors >> >>> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee >> >> 3-23-3 >> >> Dear friends, >> >> This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to >> democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. >> >> Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / >> Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime >> of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis >> defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a >> demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life >> imprisonment. >> >> I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the >> link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the >> American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact >> information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. >> >> Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have >> been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include >> anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be >> subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious >> suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically >> nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. >> >> If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states >> will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. >> >> I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon >> resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State >> Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in >> addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR >> (specifics below). >> >> Coheartedly, >> Tom >> >> PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon laws >> which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and >> organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration >> violations. >> >> _____ >> >> Excerpts from the proposed law: >> >> http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 >> OREGON >> LEGISLATIVE >> ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 >> Senator >> MINNIS >> >> SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. >> >> SECTION 1. >> >> (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly >> plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at >> least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly >> assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or >> the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The >> educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or its >> inhabitants. >> >> (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires to >> do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. >> .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by >> imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism >> under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined >> for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to >> post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of >> temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... >> >> _ _ _ _ _ >> >> The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): >> >> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 >> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 >> Address: >> Web page Address: >> >> >> _ _ _ _ _ >> >> An opportunity to make your opinions known: >> >> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick >> Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem >> >> I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties >> Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 >> a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. >> Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and >> expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" >> could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence >> with no parole. >> >> SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement >> will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven >> application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil >> rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 >> boycotters, >> marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and >> sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do >> today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. >> >> This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to >> attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and >> let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). >> >> _ _ __ >> >> The Alert from the American Civil Liberties Union >> >> ACLU of Oregon Email Activist Network >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- *** >> ACLU- OR Action: SB 742 Hearing on Monday, March 24 >> --------------------------------- ------------------------------- >> >> We need you in Salem at 8:00 a.m. on Monday. SB 742 has been set for=20 >> a >> hearing on Monday, March 24 at 8:00 a.m. in Senate Judiciary, Room >> 343. >> >> SB 742 creates the crime of "terrorism" and defines it so broadly that >> individuals would be subject to life in prison if any other >> participant intended to disrupt commerce, transportation, educational, >> or governmental institutions (such as, strikes, protests, student food >> fights). >> >> So you can read it for yourself, here's the link to the bill: >> >> >> WE NEED YOUR HELP TO STOP THIS BILL NOW. >> >> 1) ATTEND MONDAYS 8AM HEARING. We want to pack the room with as=20 >> many >> of our supporters as possible. We'll give you a sticker, identifying >> you as a supporter when you get to the hearing room. >> >> **Please know that there will be amendments to Section 1 to limit the >> current drafted definition of "Terrorism." BUT -- there are no >> amendments to Section 2, that allows for law enforcement to ignore ORS >> 181.575 & ORS 181.850 if they are investigating "terrorism." (See the >> attachment on 181 Campaign Talking Points. If you have difficulty >> opening attachments, we've also included the talking points below). >> >> 2) CONTINUE CALLS to Senators Burdick, Ringo, Walker, Courtney & >> Brown. >> >> 3) CALL Republican Senators Minnis, Starr and Ferrioli who sit on the >> Senate Judiciary to let them know you OPPOSE SB 742 (contact at end of >> e-mail) >> >> Please call them even if you are not in their District. This is an >> Oregon issue, not a district issue. >> >> Here's the contact information. >> >> Senator John Minnis, Chair Party: R District: 25 Capitol Phone: >> 503-986- 1725 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-311, Salem Or=20 >> 97301 >> Email Address: >> Web page Address: >> >> >> Senator Ginny Burdick, Vice-Chair Party: D District: 18 Capitol Phone: >> 503- 986-1718 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-317, Salem Or=20 >> 97301 >> Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: >> >> >> Senator Ted Ferrioli Party: R District: 30 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1730 >> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-217, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 >> Address: >> Web page Address: >> >> >> Senator Charlie Ringo Party: D District: 17 Capitol Phone: >> 503-986-1717 Capitol Address: 900 Court St NE S-314 Salem, OR=20 >> 97301 >> Email Address: >> Web page Address: >> >> >> Senator Charles Starr Party: R District: 13 Capitol Phone: >> 503-986-1713 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-312, Salem Or=20 >> 97301 >> Email Address: >> Web page Address: >> >> >> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 >> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 >> Address: >> Web page Address: >> >> >> Senate Leadership: >> >> Senate President Peter Courtney Party: D District: 11 Capitol Phone: >> 503- 986-1600 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-203, Salem Or=20 >> 97301 >> Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: >> >> >> Senator Kate Brown, Democrat Leader Party: D District: 21 Capitol >> Phone: 503-986-1700 Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-323, Salem=20 >> Or >> 97301 Capitol Fax:503-986-1080 Email Address:=A0 Web page Address: >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> 181 CAMPAIGN TALKING POINTS Don't Let Oregon Police Be Used For >> Political Spying Or As Federal INS Agents. >> >> Current Status: SB 742 is set for a hearing on Monday, MARCH 24, 8:00 >> a.m in Senate Judiciary (Room 343). >> >> SB 742 creates crime of "terrorism" and defines it so broadly that >> individuals would be subject to life in prison if any other >> participant intended to disrupt commerce, transportation, educational, >> or governmental institutions (such as, strikes, protests, student food >> fights). More importantly, it would also allow state and local law >> enforcement to ignore both ORS 181.575 & ORS 181.850 if=20 >> investigating >> "terrorism." This basically unravels the protections that these laws >> provide! >> >> Who We Are: We are a growing and diverse coalition of Oregon >> organizations. >> We include representatives of organizations working in civil rights, >> law enforcement, domestic violence, immigration, religious, labor, >> environmental, grassroots and advocacy communities. We share the >> common goal of preserving ORS 181.575 and ORS 181.850 because=20 >> they >> encourage effective law enforcement and protect the constitutional >> rights of everyone who lives in Oregon. >> >> For a list of the dozens of coalition members see >> >> What are these "181 Laws" all about? >> >> ORS 181.575: Protects Against Police Spying on Innocent People and >> Organizations: The law prohibits law enforcement agencies from >> collecting or maintaining information about the political, religious, >> social views, associations or activities of any person or group unless >> that information directly relates to a criminal investigation. >> >> Oregon's History of Abuse: From the creation of the Portland Police >> "Red Squad" in the 1940s until the passage of this law in 1981, >> hundreds of political, religious and other organizations were the >> subjects of FBI and police surveillance for no valid reason. A recent >> series in the Portland Tribune (September 2002) uncovered Portland >> police intelligence files tracking groups such as ACLU of Oregon, >> American Friends Service Committee (Quakers), Coalition Against >> Domestic Violence, Ecumenical Ministries of Oregon, Hispanic >> Commission, Peace House, Planned Parenthood, Rape Relief Hotline, >> Sierra Club, United Farm Workers and many more. >> >> ORS 181.850: Allows State & Local Law Enforcement to Focus on Oregon >> Priorities: This law prevents state and local law enforcement agencies >> from targeting people based on their race or ethnic origin when those >> individuals are not suspected of any criminal activity. >> >> Local law enforcement is prohibited from using resources to apprehend >> people whose only offense is a federal immigration violation. The law >> allows state and local law enforcement to contact the INS after they >> have arrested someone. The law also permits state and local police to >> request information from the INS that may help solve a criminal case. >> >> This law does not prevent local law enforcement from working with >> federal law enforcement to investigate threats of terrorism. >> >> History: In the 1980s, several local law enforcement agencies carried >> out raids and roadblocks in collaboration with the INS targeting >> Oregon's Latino community. Many lawful residents and US citizens were >> swept up in the raids and were treated harshly by local police and INS >> agents. Passage of ORS181.850 in 1987 has not completely eliminated >> such practices, but has helped create dramatic improvements in the >> relationship between immigrants and the police. >> >> Why We Need to Keep Both Laws: >> >> @ They Help Prevent & Solve Crimes: Many law enforcement officials >> support these laws because in communities where people are afraid to >> talk to police, more crimes go unreported, fewer witnesses come >> forward, and people are less likely to report suspicious activity. For >> example, without this law, domestic violence cases will go unreported, >> leading to injury or death. >> >> @ They Help Build Trust in Communities: Many immigrants come from >> countries where people are afraid of the police, and many Oregon >> police agencies have spent years building trust that would be >> undermined by asking local police to do the job of the INS. Police >> surveillance of lawful political and religious activity also >> undermines the credibility of law enforcement. Repeal of these laws >> would undermine the ability of police to carry out community policing. >> >> @ They Help Keep Priorities in Focus: State and local budgets have >> been cut to the bone. There are many federal agencies to enforce >> federal laws, but only our state and local police can enforce state >> and local laws. Especially in these times of tight budgets, they need >> to concentrate on local priorities and local crimes that the federal >> government won't enforce. >> >> =A0 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> =A0 --- >> PERMISSION IS GRANTED TO FORWARD THIS ACLU >> MESSAGE. --------------------------- >> -------------------------------------------- >> ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU OF OREGON >> >> Web Page: >> >> To subscribe to the ACLU of Oregon Email Activist Network, send e-mail >> to aclu_eug@efn.org and say "subscribe aclu-oregon" in the body of the >> message. To be taken off the Email Activist Network, send e- mail to >> aclu_eug@efn.org and say "signoff aclu- oregon" in the body of the >> message. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE >> >> ACLU Freedom Network Web Page: http://www.aclu.org. >> Constitution Hall on America Online (keyword ACLU) >> >> ACLU Action Update ACLU National Washington Office 122 Maryland=20 >> Avenue >> NE Washington, DC 20002 >> >> To subscribe to the national ACLU Action List, send a message to >> with "subscribe action" in the >> body of the message. To end your subscription, send a message to >> with "unsubscribe action" in the body of the >> message. >> >> For general information about the national ACLU, write to >> >> >> _____________________________ >> >> Tom Atlee * The Co-Intelligence Institute * PO Box 493 * Eugene, OR >> 97440 http://www.co-intelligence.org * >> http://www.democracyinnovations.org Please support our work. * Your >> donations are fully tax-deductible. >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> **************************** >> >> FAIR USE NOTICE This message may contain copyrighted material the use >> of which has not specifically been authorized by the copyright owner. >> We are making such material available in an effort to advance the >> understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, >> democratic, scientific, religious, spiritual, and social justice >> issues. We believe this constitutes a "fair use" of any such >> copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US >> Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this >> material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a >> prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit >> educational and research purposes. For more information on fair use, >> please go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml If you >> wish to use copyrighted material for purposes of your own which go >> beyond "fair use," we suggest that you obtain permission from the >> copyright owner. >> >> Libertarian Socialist News >> ATTN:=A0 Bill White, Editor >> Post Office Box 12244 >> Silver Spring, MD 20908 >> >> http://www.overthrow.com >> (check out our messageboards -- discuss this story on-line!) >> >> >> ----------------------- end forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com >> --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks (fwd) Date: 26 Mar 2003 13:09:41 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BlueEyeAngel53@aol.c= om --------------------- WAR ON TERROR Spain links Iraq to 9-11 attacks Madrid turns over documents to U.S., holds terrorist for trial Posted: March 16, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern =A9 2003 WorldNetDaily.com=20 An alleged terrorist accused of helping the Sept. 11 conspirators=20 was invited to a party by the Iraqi ambassador to Spain under his al- Qaida pseudonym, according to documents seized by Spanish=20 investigators and turned over to U.S. authorities, the London=20 Observer reports.=20 Yusuf Galan, who was photographed being trained at a camp run by=20 Osama bin Laden, is now in jail, awaiting trial in Madrid. The=20 indictment against him, drawn up by investigating judge Baltasar=20 Garzon, claims he was "directly involved with the preparation and=20 carrying out of the attacks ... by the suicide pilots on 11 September."=20 Evidence of Galan's links with Iraqi government officials came to=20 light only recently, as investigators pored through more than 40,000=20 pages of documents seized in raids at the homes of Galan and=20 seven alleged co-conspirators. The Spanish authorities have=20 supplied copies to lawyers in America, and this week the documents=20 will form part of a dossier to be filed in a federal court in=20 Washington, claiming damages of approximately $100 billion on=20 behalf of more than 2,500 Sept. 11 victims, according to the=20 Observer report.=20 The lawsuit lists Saddam's government in Iraq as one of its principal=20 defendants, claiming it provided 'material support' to the al-Qaida=20 terrorists.=20 While many opposing the invasion of Iraq have been skeptical of the=20 al-Qaida-Iraq link, in recent months George Tenet, director of the=20 CIA, has made increasingly strong statements alleging such a=20 connection. In congressional testimony, he said that Iraq had co- operated with al-Qaida for 10 years, and that it had trained al-Qaida=20 members in bomb-making and the use of chemical and biological=20 weapons.=20 WorldNetDaily has reported Iraq's sponsorship of al-Qaida dating=20 back more than a decade since Dec. 2002.=20 The evidence in support of the Sept. 11 damages claim cites=20 several examples of this alleged co-operation. They include the=20 terrorist training camp at Salman Pak near Baghdad, where former=20 Iraqi intelligence brigadier Jamal al-Qurairy has said that non-Iraqi=20 Islamic radicals were trained to hijack aircraft using knives.=20 It also includes a new affirmation by the Czech government that=20 Mohamed Atta, the leader of the Sept. 11 plotters, met an Iraqi=20 intelligence officer, Ibrahim al-Ani, in Prague in April 2001. Some US=20 officials have suggested this meeting did not happen. But in a=20 signed statement dated 24 February, 2003, Hynek Kmonicek, the=20 Czech ambassador to the UN, says his government 'can confirm=20 that during the stay of Mohamed Atta ... there was contact with Mr=20 al-Ani, who was on 22 April, 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic=20 on the basis of activities not compatible with his diplomatic status=20 [the usual euphemism for spying]'. Garzon's indictment says Galan=20 was part of a cell which organized bank robberies on behalf of al- Qaida, and which had supported the group around Atta financially=20 and logistically. ----------------------- end forwarded message from BlueEyeAngel53@aol.com= --------------------- -- --- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-= 19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath n= o weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy= a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Chr= ist ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------= --- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! --- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: America wake up! (fwd) Date: 27 Mar 2003 10:19:18 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BlueEyeAngel53@aol.com --------------------- Very Good Article. Thanks Sweetie, ANGEL In a message dated 3/26/2003 7:26:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, excalibur25@juno.com writes: Worth the read again! U.S. Navy Capt.Ouimette is the XO of NAS, Pensacola. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is a wonderful and accurate account of why we are in trouble today. "AMERICA WAKE UP!" That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then. It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage, and paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign US embassy set the stage for the events to follow for the next 23 years. America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Viet Nam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol oif America's inability to deal with terrorism. America's military had been decimated and downsized since the end of the Viet Nam war. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start. Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued. In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more. Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut. 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more. Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber. The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept. Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid. Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the Snooze Alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US soil is continually attacked. Fifty-nine days later a passenger cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed. The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259. America wants to treat these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war. The Wake Up alarm is louder and louder. The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war? The Snooze alarm is depressed again. Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women. A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively. They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep. The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep. And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep. In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high official in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979. The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough. America has to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to hit the Snooze Button again and roll over and go back to sleep. We have to make the terrorists know that in the words of Admiral Yamamoto after the attack on Pearl Harbor "that all they have done is to awaken a sleeping giant." Thank you very much. U.S. Navy Captain NAS Pensacola, FL Pensacola Civitan ----------------------- end forwarded message from BlueEyeAngel53@aol.com --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: One US Soldier (humor) (fwd) Date: 28 Mar 2003 10:42:48 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Bruce Chesley --------------------- A goody. Bruce Chesley Truth is a terrible cross to bear. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.". Thomas Paine Treason for $$$: ALL "pro 2A" orgs. ----- Forwarded Message ----- A large group of Iraqi soldiers are moving down a road when they hear a voice call from behind a sand dune: ""One United States Soldier is better than ten Iraqi's!" The Iraqi commander quickly sends 10 of his best soldiers over the dune, whereupon a gun battle breaks and continues for a few minutes, then silence. The voice then calls out: "One United States Soldier is better than one hundred Iraqi's!" Furious, the Iraqi commander sends his next best 100 troops over the dune and instantly a huge fire fight commences. After 10 minutes of battle, again silence. The American voice calls out again: ""One United States Soldier is better than one thousand Iraqi's!" The enraged Iraqi Commander musters one thousand fighters and sends them across the dune. Cannons, rockets and machine guns ring out as a hug! e battle is fought. Then silence. Eventually one wounded Iraqi fighter crawls back over the dune and with his dying words tells his commander: "Don't send any more men, it's a trap. There's two of them!" 'GOD BLESS AMERICA' ----------------------- end forwarded message from Bruce Chesley --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: SRA - John Lotts's New Book: Media-Induced Gun Myths (fwd) Date: 28 Mar 2003 22:22:17 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- FYI - Sounds interesting.... Media-Induced Gun Myths 3/28/2003, from HumanEventsOnline http://www.humaneventsonline.com/articles/03-31-03/gemma.htm "Dr. John R. Lott has done it again. The best selling author of the aptly-titled More Guns, Less Crime has penned an appropriately titled sequel: The Bias Against Guns: Why Almost Everything You've Heard About Gun Control is Wrong (published by Regnery, a sister company of Human Events). Lott, an economist who has held positions at Yale Law School, the University of Chicago, UCLA, and Stanford University, has put together an original study from empirical research that demonstrates every plausible facet of the pro-gun position. With this book in hand (which includes more than 50 pages of notes), you can confidently debate that disbelieving brother-in-law or naive neighbor. What can you expect from The Bias Against Guns? First and foremost the evidence Lott amasses succinctly engages the reader's attention from chapter to chapter. Lott cites a Los Angeles Times' survey of some 3,000 journalists that found a whopping 78% of the media supporting stricter gun control measures despite the fact that states which allow citizens with no prior criminal records to obtain concealed weapons permits lead to lower rates of violent crime, including murder. The author effectively shows how the press manipulates public opinion polls to further their own anti-gun agenda. Lott explains that there are polls and then there are polls - survey results can be skewed by just the slight- est imbalance built into the questions--and then goes on to show his readers how poll results on gun issues are routinely massaged. The book contains statistics from tainted polls as well as from unbiased surveys - the kind of practical information that comes in handy in disputes over gun control and the 2nd Amendment. Lott maintains that '...we almost never discuss the positive effects of guns: that they often save innocent lives...' He estimates defensive gun use--1.5 to 3.4 million occurrences every year--is so underreported that people have a hard time believing it happens at all. In his new book, Lott gives several detailed examples of underreported or misreported defensive gun news stories. One of his accounts revolves around a January 2002 mass shooting that claimed three victims at the Appalachian Law School in Virginia. Despite the fact that the incident '...made international headlines from Australia to Nigeria,...one fact was missing from virtually all the news coverage: the attack was stopped by two students who had guns in their cars.'" -------------------------------------------------- Any other views expressed herein, are my own, not bought or sponsored in any shape or form, by or for any organization, currently existing or not. It should be noted: the URL posted is very likely to suddenly expire & if the reader wants to read the full article, they should should visit the copyright holders listed site very promptly. References & partial texts are given for EDUCATIONAL & INFORMATIONAL purposes only as per the "Fair Use" as described in Title-17, Sect 107 below. -------------------------------------------------- **COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 USC Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for nonprofit research & educational purposes only. [Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml] -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- end forwarded message from Brad3000 --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 28 Mar 2003 23:40:49 -0700 On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 16:20 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org wrote: > Horse Puckey! It's not a law against demonstrating/protesting, it's a > law > against committing crimes while doing do. Did you read it? It is so broad that merely marching in a group down the road is considered "terrorism" (obstructing free and orderly assembly)... > _NO_ONE_ has the, "Right", to commit > crimes without paying the price for comitting them. Ya wanna protest/ > demonstrate, fine, do so. Ya wanna commit crimes while you do so, > fine, pay the > price. Personally I can't think of a better way to remove slack > jawed, drooling > Leftist morons, from the voting/gene pool, with the possible exception > of doing > so in a permanent manner. If it is a crime already, there is no need to make this law. No one is claiming to be able to commit crimes while protesting, and this law is not about that either. Just like "hate crime" laws, a crime is a crime, whether or not it is committed while protesting or against a whiteman or a blackman. This law sucks and so do hate crime laws. Chad > > Bill > > > On Tue Mar 25 14:25:56 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: > >> ok folks >> >> this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't >> mean >> it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are >> bad >> on a couple, like RKBA. >> >> Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens >> when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to >> jail for life for rallying for that? >> >> What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... >> >> Chad >> >> >> On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, >> roc@xpresso.seaslug.org >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. >>> Hey, if >>> the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com >>> --------------------- >>> >>> From: BOBWORN@aol.com >>> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST >>> Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War >>> Demonstrators >>> >>> Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators >>> Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" >>> >>> 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM >>> Rense.com >>> >>> Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com >>> >>> Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors >>> >>>> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee >>> >>> 3-23-3 >>> >>> Dear friends, >>> >>> This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to >>> democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. >>> >>> Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / >>> Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime >>> of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis >>> defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a >>> demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life >>> imprisonment. >>> >>> I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the >>> link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the >>> American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact >>> information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. >>> >>> Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have >>> been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include >>> anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be >>> subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious >>> suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically >>> nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. >>> >>> If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states >>> will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. >>> >>> I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon >>> resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State >>> Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in >>> addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR >>> (specifics below). >>> >>> Coheartedly, >>> Tom >>> >>> PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon >>> laws >>> which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and >>> organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration >>> violations. >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> Excerpts from the proposed law: >>> >>> http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 >>> OREGON >>> LEGISLATIVE >>> ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 >>> Senator >>> MINNIS >>> >>> SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. >>> >>> SECTION 1. >>> >>> (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly >>> plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at >>> least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly >>> assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or >>> the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The >>> educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or >>> its >>> inhabitants. >>> >>> (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires >>> to >>> do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. >>> .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by >>> imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism >>> under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined >>> for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to >>> post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of >>> temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... >>> >>> _ _ _ _ _ >>> >>> The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): >>> >>> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 >>> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 >>> Address: >>> Web page Address: >>> >>> >>> _ _ _ _ _ >>> >>> An opportunity to make your opinions known: >>> >>> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick >>> Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem >>> >>> I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties >>> Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 >>> a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. >>> Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and >>> expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" >>> could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence >>> with no parole. >>> >>> SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement >>> will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven >>> application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil >>> rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 >>> boycotters, >>> marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and >>> sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do >>> today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. >>> >>> This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to >>> attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and >>> let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "boyd" Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 29 Mar 2003 00:25:42 -0800 ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:40 PM > On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 16:20 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org > wrote: > > > Horse Puckey! It's not a law against demonstrating/protesting, it's a snip > > _NO_ONE_ has the, "Right", to commit > > crimes without paying the price for comitting them. Ya wanna protest/ snip > > If it is a crime already, there is no need to make this law. No one is > claiming to be able to commit crimes while protesting, and this law is I would go further. A whole lot of the problems the Criminal Justice system now has revolve around the legislative fetish with putting out fires with precisely this type of gasoline. We have a problem with a system that pleas away all sorts of charges, that doesn't sentence criminals to much when we actually do convict them and then turns them loose (or at least used to) early when they are finally sentenced... and all legislators want to do is heap redundant (and just as unenforced and unenforceable) laws on top of redundant laws. It's not just that it doesn't make sense, it makes a mockery of the idea of laws. Laws are not tools for prosectors to have at hand in case they decide they want another count, they're supposed to be the clear and distinct gaurdrails of society. When we pass laws that we -know- aren't passed to be enforced but are instead just little soap boxes for legislators to stand up on when they're back in the district stumping to the constituents for the next election, we are making a joke of the rule of law. And the jokes on us. But passing budgets that prioritize for prosecution and enforcement isn't as glamorous as an "omnibus public safety and anti badness, apple pie is good" bill. (not that I have any opinion on it ; ) Boyd (20,000 gun laws is at least 19,000 to many) Kneeland > Chad > > > > Bill > > > > > > On Tue Mar 25 14:25:56 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: > > > >> ok folks > >> > >> this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't > >> mean > >> it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are > >> bad > >> on a couple, like RKBA. > >> > >> Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens > >> when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to > >> jail for life for rallying for that? > >> > >> What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... > >> > >> Chad > >> > >> > >> On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, > >> roc@xpresso.seaslug.org > >> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. > >>> Hey, if > >>> the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) > >>> > >>> Bill > >>> > >>> > >>> ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com > >>> --------------------- > >>> > >>> From: BOBWORN@aol.com > >>> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST > >>> Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War > >>> Demonstrators > >>> > >>> Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators > >>> Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" > >>> > >>> 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM > >>> Rense.com > >>> > >>> Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com > >>> > >>> Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors > >>> > >>>> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee > >>> > >>> 3-23-3 > >>> > >>> Dear friends, > >>> > >>> This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to > >>> democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. > >>> > >>> Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / > >>> Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime > >>> of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis > >>> defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a > >>> demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life > >>> imprisonment. > >>> > >>> I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the > >>> link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the > >>> American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact > >>> information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. > >>> > >>> Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have > >>> been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include > >>> anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be > >>> subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious > >>> suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically > >>> nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. > >>> > >>> If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states > >>> will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. > >>> > >>> I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon > >>> resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State > >>> Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in > >>> addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR > >>> (specifics below). > >>> > >>> Coheartedly, > >>> Tom > >>> > >>> PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon > >>> laws > >>> which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and > >>> organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration > >>> violations. > >>> > >>> _____ > >>> > >>> Excerpts from the proposed law: > >>> > >>> http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 > >>> OREGON > >>> LEGISLATIVE > >>> ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 > >>> Senator > >>> MINNIS > >>> > >>> SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. > >>> > >>> SECTION 1. > >>> > >>> (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly > >>> plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at > >>> least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly > >>> assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or > >>> the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The > >>> educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or > >>> its > >>> inhabitants. > >>> > >>> (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires > >>> to > >>> do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. > >>> .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by > >>> imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism > >>> under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined > >>> for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to > >>> post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of > >>> temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... > >>> > >>> _ _ _ _ _ > >>> > >>> The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): > >>> > >>> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 > >>> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 > >>> Address: > >>> Web page Address: > >>> > >>> > >>> _ _ _ _ _ > >>> > >>> An opportunity to make your opinions known: > >>> > >>> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick > >>> Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem > >>> > >>> I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties > >>> Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 > >>> a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. > >>> Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and > >>> expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" > >>> could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence > >>> with no parole. > >>> > >>> SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement > >>> will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven > >>> application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil > >>> rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 > >>> boycotters, > >>> marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and > >>> sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do > >>> today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. > >>> > >>> This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to > >>> attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and > >>> let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 29 Mar 2003 11:46:50 -0800 (PST) Hi Chad; It came through fine this time. You and Boyd mave made some excellent points here, so I'll back off a bit. However there's still a problem to be dealt with. The people doing the protests lately, are nothing less than Brown Shirts, without the shirts. They'vs been actively engaging in crime in order to create riots to further publisize their causes. Intimidation, assault, battery, vandalism, destruction of property, and who knows what else. The police all seem to have orders to leave them alone. Locally, there have been some counter demonstrations that mostly outnumber them to the point that they've just been baking off, and leaving the area. That's not going to work forever, without some typically insane/illegal responce. What do you suggest? Bill On Fri Mar 28 22:40:49 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: >On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 16:20 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org >wrote: > >> Horse Puckey! It's not a law against demonstrating/protesting, it's a >> law >> against committing crimes while doing do. > >Did you read it? It is so broad that merely marching in a group down >the road is considered "terrorism" (obstructing free and orderly >assembly)... > >> _NO_ONE_ has the, "Right", to commit >> crimes without paying the price for comitting them. Ya wanna protest/ >> demonstrate, fine, do so. Ya wanna commit crimes while you do so, >> fine, pay the >> price. Personally I can't think of a better way to remove slack >> jawed, drooling >> Leftist morons, from the voting/gene pool, with the possible exception >> of doing >> so in a permanent manner. > >If it is a crime already, there is no need to make this law. No one is >claiming to be able to commit crimes while protesting, and this law is >not about that either. Just like "hate crime" laws, a crime is a >crime, whether or not it is committed while protesting or against a >whiteman or a blackman. This law sucks and so do hate crime laws. > >Chad > >> >> Bill >> >> >> On Tue Mar 25 14:25:56 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: >> >>> ok folks >>> >>> this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't >>> mean >>> it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are >>> bad >>> on a couple, like RKBA. >>> >>> Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens >>> when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to >>> jail for life for rallying for that? >>> >>> What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... >>> >>> Chad >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, >>> roc@xpresso.seaslug.org >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. >>>> Hey, if >>>> the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) >>>> >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com >>>> --------------------- >>>> >>>> From: BOBWORN@aol.com >>>> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST >>>> Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War >>>> Demonstrators >>>> >>>> Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators >>>> Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" >>>> >>>> 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM >>>> Rense.com >>>> >>>> Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com >>>> >>>> Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors >>>> >>>>> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee >>>> >>>> 3-23-3 >>>> >>>> Dear friends, >>>> >>>> This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to >>>> democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. >>>> >>>> Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / >>>> Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime >>>> of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis >>>> defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a >>>> demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life >>>> imprisonment. >>>> >>>> I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the >>>> link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the >>>> American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact >>>> information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. >>>> >>>> Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have >>>> been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include >>>> anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be >>>> subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious >>>> suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically >>>> nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. >>>> >>>> If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states >>>> will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. >>>> >>>> I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon >>>> resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State >>>> Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in >>>> addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR >>>> (specifics below). >>>> >>>> Coheartedly, >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon >>>> laws >>>> which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and >>>> organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration >>>> violations. >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> Excerpts from the proposed law: >>>> >>>> http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 >>>> OREGON >>>> LEGISLATIVE >>>> ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 >>>> Senator >>>> MINNIS >>>> >>>> SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. >>>> >>>> SECTION 1. >>>> >>>> (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly >>>> plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at >>>> least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly >>>> assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or >>>> the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The >>>> educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or >>>> its >>>> inhabitants. >>>> >>>> (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires >>>> to >>>> do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. >>>> .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by >>>> imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism >>>> under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined >>>> for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to >>>> post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of >>>> temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... >>>> >>>> _ _ _ _ _ >>>> >>>> The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): >>>> >>>> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 >>>> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 >>>> Address: >>>> Web page Address: >>>> >>>> >>>> _ _ _ _ _ >>>> >>>> An opportunity to make your opinions known: >>>> >>>> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick >>>> Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem >>>> >>>> I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties >>>> Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 >>>> a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. >>>> Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and >>>> expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" >>>> could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence >>>> with no parole. >>>> >>>> SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement >>>> will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven >>>> application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil >>>> rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 >>>> boycotters, >>>> marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and >>>> sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do >>>> today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. >>>> >>>> This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to >>>> attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and >>>> let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). > > >- > > -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "boyd" Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 29 Mar 2003 13:08:14 -0800 Arrest them, prosecute them and sentence them (jail the violent ones). Bill, aren't you in Seattle? Westlake Center saw more then 30 arrests the other day. There isn't a widespread problem with step one (from above) that I can see. Locally the problem is not a lack of laws at all, it is: 1) a prosecutors office that is overun with more serious crimes (crimes of personal violence) and doesn't enjoy an overabundance of competence and 2) a judicial branch that doesn't view punishment as a valid function of sentencincing. All IMHO of course, IANAL. Boyd ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:46 AM > Hi Chad; > > It came through fine this time. > > You and Boyd mave made some excellent points here, so I'll back off a bit. > However there's still a problem to be dealt with. The people doing the protests > lately, are nothing less than Brown Shirts, without the shirts. They'vs been > actively engaging in crime in order to create riots to further publisize their > causes. Intimidation, assault, battery, vandalism, destruction of property, and > who knows what else. The police all seem to have orders to leave them alone. > > Locally, there have been some counter demonstrations that mostly outnumber them > to the point that they've just been baking off, and leaving the area. That's > not going to work forever, without some typically insane/illegal responce. > > What do you suggest? > > Bill > > > On Fri Mar 28 22:40:49 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: > > >On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 16:20 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org > >wrote: > > > >> Horse Puckey! It's not a law against demonstrating/protesting, it's a > >> law > >> against committing crimes while doing do. > > > >Did you read it? It is so broad that merely marching in a group down > >the road is considered "terrorism" (obstructing free and orderly > >assembly)... > > > >> _NO_ONE_ has the, "Right", to commit > >> crimes without paying the price for comitting them. Ya wanna protest/ > >> demonstrate, fine, do so. Ya wanna commit crimes while you do so, > >> fine, pay the > >> price. Personally I can't think of a better way to remove slack > >> jawed, drooling > >> Leftist morons, from the voting/gene pool, with the possible exception > >> of doing > >> so in a permanent manner. > > > >If it is a crime already, there is no need to make this law. No one is > >claiming to be able to commit crimes while protesting, and this law is > >not about that either. Just like "hate crime" laws, a crime is a > >crime, whether or not it is committed while protesting or against a > >whiteman or a blackman. This law sucks and so do hate crime laws. > > > >Chad > > > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> On Tue Mar 25 14:25:56 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: > >> > >>> ok folks > >>> > >>> this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't > >>> mean > >>> it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are > >>> bad > >>> on a couple, like RKBA. > >>> > >>> Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens > >>> when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to > >>> jail for life for rallying for that? > >>> > >>> What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... > >>> > >>> Chad > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, > >>> roc@xpresso.seaslug.org > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. > >>>> Hey, if > >>>> the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) > >>>> > >>>> Bill > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com > >>>> --------------------- > >>>> > >>>> From: BOBWORN@aol.com > >>>> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST > >>>> Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War > >>>> Demonstrators > >>>> > >>>> Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators > >>>> Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" > >>>> > >>>> 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM > >>>> Rense.com > >>>> > >>>> Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com > >>>> > >>>> Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors > >>>> > >>>>> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee > >>>> > >>>> 3-23-3 > >>>> > >>>> Dear friends, > >>>> > >>>> This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to > >>>> democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. > >>>> > >>>> Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / > >>>> Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime > >>>> of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis > >>>> defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a > >>>> demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life > >>>> imprisonment. > >>>> > >>>> I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the > >>>> link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the > >>>> American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact > >>>> information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. > >>>> > >>>> Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have > >>>> been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include > >>>> anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be > >>>> subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious > >>>> suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically > >>>> nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. > >>>> > >>>> If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states > >>>> will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. > >>>> > >>>> I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon > >>>> resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State > >>>> Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in > >>>> addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR > >>>> (specifics below). > >>>> > >>>> Coheartedly, > >>>> Tom > >>>> > >>>> PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon > >>>> laws > >>>> which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and > >>>> organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration > >>>> violations. > >>>> > >>>> _____ > >>>> > >>>> Excerpts from the proposed law: > >>>> > >>>> http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 > >>>> OREGON > >>>> LEGISLATIVE > >>>> ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 > >>>> Senator > >>>> MINNIS > >>>> > >>>> SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. > >>>> > >>>> SECTION 1. > >>>> > >>>> (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly > >>>> plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at > >>>> least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly > >>>> assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or > >>>> the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The > >>>> educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or > >>>> its > >>>> inhabitants. > >>>> > >>>> (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires > >>>> to > >>>> do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. > >>>> .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by > >>>> imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism > >>>> under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined > >>>> for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to > >>>> post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of > >>>> temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... > >>>> > >>>> _ _ _ _ _ > >>>> > >>>> The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): > >>>> > >>>> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 > >>>> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 > >>>> Address: > >>>> Web page Address: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _ _ _ _ _ > >>>> > >>>> An opportunity to make your opinions known: > >>>> > >>>> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick > >>>> Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem > >>>> > >>>> I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties > >>>> Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 > >>>> a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. > >>>> Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and > >>>> expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" > >>>> could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence > >>>> with no parole. > >>>> > >>>> SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement > >>>> will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven > >>>> application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil > >>>> rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 > >>>> boycotters, > >>>> marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and > >>>> sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do > >>>> today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. > >>>> > >>>> This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to > >>>> attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and > >>>> let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). > > > > > >- > > > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------- -- > An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no > weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his > hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a > on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ > ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------- -- > > Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) Date: 29 Mar 2003 14:19:46 -0800 (PST) On Sat Mar 29 13:08:14 2003 boyd wrote: >Arrest them, prosecute them and sentence them (jail the violent ones). > >Bill, aren't you in Seattle? About 30 miles N.E. of the People's Utopia of Seattle, more or less midway between there and Everett, in a little place called Bothell. > Westlake Center saw more then 30 arrests the >other day. There isn't a widespread problem with step one (from above) that >I can see. Locally the problem is not a lack of laws at all, it is: 1) a >prosecutors office that is overun with more serious crimes (crimes of >personal violence) and doesn't enjoy an overabundance of competence and 2) a >judicial branch that doesn't view punishment as a valid function of >sentencincing. All IMHO of course, IANAL. Boyd Right, though I was speaking more to the general Country-Wide condition. There are counter demonstrations poping up all over the Country, but again, I can't see the Brown Shirts, just letting things go on like that without doing something _really_ stupid/illegal/insane. Bill >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 11:46 AM >Subject: Re: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment (fwd) > > >> Hi Chad; >> >> It came through fine this time. >> >> You and Boyd mave made some excellent points here, so I'll back off a bit. >> However there's still a problem to be dealt with. The people doing the >protests >> lately, are nothing less than Brown Shirts, without the shirts. They'vs >been >> actively engaging in crime in order to create riots to further publisize >their >> causes. Intimidation, assault, battery, vandalism, destruction of >property, and >> who knows what else. The police all seem to have orders to leave them >alone. >> >> Locally, there have been some counter demonstrations that mostly outnumber >them >> to the point that they've just been baking off, and leaving the area. >That's >> not going to work forever, without some typically insane/illegal responce. >> >> What do you suggest? >> >> Bill >> >> >> On Fri Mar 28 22:40:49 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: >> >> >On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 16:20 US/Mountain, roc@xpresso.seaslug.org >> >wrote: >> > >> >> Horse Puckey! It's not a law against demonstrating/protesting, it's a >> >> law >> >> against committing crimes while doing do. >> > >> >Did you read it? It is so broad that merely marching in a group down >> >the road is considered "terrorism" (obstructing free and orderly >> >assembly)... >> > >> >> _NO_ONE_ has the, "Right", to commit >> >> crimes without paying the price for comitting them. Ya wanna protest/ >> >> demonstrate, fine, do so. Ya wanna commit crimes while you do so, >> >> fine, pay the >> >> price. Personally I can't think of a better way to remove slack >> >> jawed, drooling >> >> Leftist morons, from the voting/gene pool, with the possible exception >> >> of doing >> >> so in a permanent manner. >> > >> >If it is a crime already, there is no need to make this law. No one is >> >claiming to be able to commit crimes while protesting, and this law is >> >not about that either. Just like "hate crime" laws, a crime is a >> >crime, whether or not it is committed while protesting or against a >> >whiteman or a blackman. This law sucks and so do hate crime laws. >> > >> >Chad >> > >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue Mar 25 14:25:56 2003 Chad Leigh -- Pengar Enterprises Inc wrote: >> >> >> >>> ok folks >> >>> >> >>> this is a stupid law. Just because the ACLU is against it doesn't >> >>> mean >> >>> it is good. The ACLU supports a lot of good things. They just are >> >>> bad >> >>> on a couple, like RKBA. >> >>> >> >>> Do you want a law that prohibits you from demonstrating? What happens >> >>> when the AW Ban comes up for renewal next year. Do you want to go to >> >>> jail for life for rallying for that? >> >>> >> >>> What goes around comes around. This law is not constitutional... >> >>> >> >>> Chad >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Tuesday, Mar 25, 2003, at 12:47 US/Mountain, >> >>> roc@xpresso.seaslug.org >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Sounds like tha State of Oregon is finally getting it's act together. >> >>>> Hey, if >> >>>> the ACLU is against it, it's _GOT_ to be good! :-) >> >>>> >> >>>> Bill >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ----------------------- begin forwarded message from BOBWORN@aol.com >> >>>> --------------------- >> >>>> >> >>>> From: BOBWORN@aol.com >> >>>> Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 13:15:35 EST >> >>>> Subject: Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War >> >>>> Demonstrators >> >>>> >> >>>> Oregon Law Promises Life Imprisonment For Anti-War Demonstrators >> >>>> Bill Defines Marching Against War As "Supporting Terrorism" >> >>>> >> >>>> 3/25/03 12:25:26 PM >> >>>> Rense.com >> >>>> >> >>>> Portland, Oregon -- http://www.rense.com >> >>>> >> >>>> Oregon Bill Could Give LIFE In Prison To Peace Protestors >> >>>> >> >>>>> From Louanne M. From Tom Atlee >> >>>> >> >>>> 3-23-3 >> >>>> >> >>>> Dear friends, >> >>>> >> >>>> This is serious and urgent. There is a clear and present danger to >> >>>> democracy in Oregon which could spread to other states. >> >>>> >> >>>> Senate Bill 742 proposed by Oregon State Senator Minnis (R-Dist. 25 / >> >>>> Fairview)(Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee) creates the crime >> >>>> of "terrorism" -- punishable by life imprisonment. Senator Minnis >> >>>> defines "terrorism" so broadly that even being present at a >> >>>> demonstration that is in any way "disruptive" could result in life >> >>>> imprisonment. >> >>>> >> >>>> I have given the relevant sections of the bill below, as well as the >> >>>> link to the whole bill. I have also provided information from the >> >>>> American Civil Liberties Union regarding this, including contact >> >>>> information for the relevant Oregon State Senators. >> >>>> >> >>>> Ever since laws began to be passed criminalizing "terrorism," I have >> >>>> been concerned that its definition would be expanded to include >> >>>> anything that authorities wished to suppress which could then be >> >>>> subject to extreme punishment, laying the groundwork for serious >> >>>> suppression. It seems that is now happening. It must be energetically >> >>>> nipped in the bud if we are to prevent its spread. >> >>>> >> >>>> If this law passes in Oregon, it is highly likely that other states >> >>>> will pass similar laws, especially in the current political climate. >> >>>> >> >>>> I trust you will act if you feel so moved. Whether you are an Oregon >> >>>> resident or not, you can express your dismay to the Oregon State >> >>>> Senators listed below. If you are an Oregon resident you can, in >> >>>> addition, attend a hearing Monday morning Mar 24 in Salem, OR >> >>>> (specifics below). >> >>>> >> >>>> Coheartedly, >> >>>> Tom >> >>>> >> >>>> PS: The law also sets aside (in terrorism cases) two other Oregon >> >>>> laws >> >>>> which prevent police from (a) spying on innocent people and >> >>>> organizations and (b) apprehending people solely for immigration >> >>>> violations. >> >>>> >> >>>> _____ >> >>>> >> >>>> Excerpts from the proposed law: >> >>>> >> >>>> http://pub.das.state.or.us/LEG_BILLS/PDFs/SB742.pdf 72nd=20 >> >>>> OREGON >> >>>> LEGISLATIVE >> >>>> ASSEMBLY--2003 Regular Session Senate Bill 742 Sponsored by=20 >> >>>> Senator >> >>>> MINNIS >> >>>> >> >>>> SUMMARY: Creates crime of terrorism. Punishes by life imprisonment. >> >>>> >> >>>> SECTION 1. >> >>>> >> >>>> (1) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person knowingly >> >>>> plans, participates in or carries out any act that is intended, by at >> >>>> least one of its participants, to disrupt: (a) The free and orderly >> >>>> assembly of the inhabitants of the State of Oregon; (b) Commerce or >> >>>> the transportation systems of the State of Oregon; or (c) The >> >>>> educational or governmental institutions of the State of Oregon or >> >>>> its >> >>>> inhabitants. >> >>>> >> >>>> (2) A person commits the crime of terrorism if the person conspires >> >>>> to >> >>>> do any of the activities described in subsection (1) of this section. >> >>>> .... (4) (a) A person convicted of terrorism shall be punished by >> >>>> imprisonment for life. (b) When a person is convicted of terrorism >> >>>> under this section, the court shall order that the person be confined >> >>>> for a minimum of 25 years without possibility of parole, release to >> >>>> post-prison supervision, release on work release or any form of >> >>>> temporary leave or employment at a forest or work camp.... >> >>>> >> >>>> _ _ _ _ _ >> >>>> >> >>>> The State Senator from Eugene (my hometown): >> >>>> >> >>>> Senator Vicki Walker Party: D District: 7 Capitol Phone: 503-986-1707 >> >>>> Capitol Address: 900 Court St. NE S-210, Salem Or 97301 Email=20 >> >>>> Address: >> >>>> Web page Address: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _ _ _ _ _ >> >>>> >> >>>> An opportunity to make your opinions known: >> >>>> >> >>>> Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 17:23:55 -0800 From: Harriet Merrick >> >>>> Subject: Monday March 24 in Salem >> >>>> >> >>>> I am forwarding a message from the ACLU (American Civil Liberties >> >>>> Union). There is an important hearing this Monday, March 24th, at 8 >> >>>> a.m. in Salem at the Capital. If you can attend, please do. >> >>>> Representative Minnis is sponsoring a bill that is so vague and >> >>>> expansive that almost any activity that is considered "disruptive" >> >>>> could be considered "terrorist" activity and "earn" a life sentence >> >>>> with no parole. >> >>>> >> >>>> SB 742 in its original form lacks guidelines. Local law enforcement >> >>>> will decide what is disruptive. This could lead to very uneven >> >>>> application of the law. If this vague law existed during the civil >> >>>> rights movement, those opposing change could have declared=20 >> >>>> boycotters, >> >>>> marchers and leaders such as Martin Luther King as "terrorists" and >> >>>> sentenced them to life imprisonment. One wonders what it would do >> >>>> today. There's more. I invite you to read the ACLU memo below. >> >>>> >> >>>> This bill is in committee and needs a sizable number of people to >> >>>> attend in opposition. If you cannot attend, please read the bill and >> >>>> let the committee know how you feel (contact numbers below). >> > >> > >> >- >> > >> > >> >> -- >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >> RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** >4-19! >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------- >-- >> An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no >> weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his >> hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a >> on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus >Christ >> ----------------+----------+--------------------------+------------------- >-- >> >> Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >> >> - >> >> > > >- > > -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org Subject: Advise and Dissent [long] (fwd) Date: 31 Mar 2003 11:43:03 -0800 (PST) ----------------------- begin forwarded message from Jim Zoes --------------------- I have two points to make about the opposition to the current war. First, I support the right of people to dissent and object. I OBJECT to the way they are doing it during this war, the "senders" of the message, and to the message itself -- but not to the right to state it. In an article/op-ed piece originally published in the LA times after 9/11, former leftist radical, who is now a conservative Republican, David Horowitz wrote: "If I have one regret from my radical years, it is that this country was too tolerant toward the treason of its enemies within. If patriotic Americans had been more vigilant in the defense of their country, if they had called things by their right names, if they had confronted us with the seriousness of our attacks, they might have caught the attention of those of us who were well-meaning but utterly misguided. And they might have stopped us in our tracks. I appeal to those of you who are attacking your country, full of self-righteousness, who, like me, may live to regret what you have done." David Horowitz, 9/28/2001, Los Angeles Times, http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-000077642sep28.story?coll=la%2Dne ws%2Dcomment%2Dopinions Horowitz, if you've read his biography "Radical Son," grew up with real, honest to goodness Communist parents. Horowitz shared their philosophy as a young man. He was one of the original Vietnam anti-war protester organizers as well as the editor of a leftist magazine "Ramparts." He now states unequivocally that the Vietnam War opposition was funded in part by the Soviet Union (which post-collapse research confirms), and was intended to undermine the United States to hand their ally a "win." Now whether or not you agreed with the Vietnam War or not, an object review of the tactics used by the ant-war leadership, especially the attempts to interfere with the prosecution of the war, bordered upon actual treason or sedition. Certainly, if one considers basis for the convictions of "Tokyo Rose" and "Axis Sally" (Ikoku Toguri and Mildred Elizabeth Gillars) for treason in WWII, the trip to North Vietnam by Jane Fonda (especially her personal betrayal of POW's that tried to slip messages to her) certainly stands out as an overt example of treason. Horowitz, in fact, unequivocally calls the actions of him and his associates in the anti-war movement treasonous. And as he was on the "inside", I am inclined to believe him. Both Salon.com and the LA Times have carried run articles on the genesis of the current anti-war movement (which includes those who were opposed to the war in Afghanistan, post 9-11). Libertarian anti-war site antiwar.com, the LA Times, and Salon.com have pierced the "corporate veil" (so to speak) and the "cut-outs" to identify those behind the sources of the current anti-war movement. Here are the leaders in the anti-war movement: Before their bifurcation into two groups for tax-exempt purposes, "Not In Our Name" was the brainchild of C. Clark Kissinger. Kissinger is the founder of a war-resister group ("Refuse and Resist"), which is the organ of the Revolutionary Communist Party-USA, where Kissinger is also editor/columnist. For those who do not know, the RCPUSA openly states that their ideology is a Marxist, Leninist/Maoist brand of communism and openly advocates the violent overthrow of the US government. They are a proud supporter of the "Shining Path" rebels in Peru. According Salon.com columnist Todd Gitlin, Kissinger is in favor of a Pol Pot-style post-revolutionary America should they ever get in to power. That's "death camps" for people like you and me. The other major leaders in the anti-war dissent are A.N.S.W.E.R. and the International Action Center (IAC). IAC was founded by Ramsey Clark who is also a director of A.N.S.W.E.R. IAC is also closely aligned with the World Workers Party, a communist front, and was a registered mouthpiece for Serbia in the World Court. IAC (Ramsey Clark in particular), supports Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Karadzic, indicted war criminals. IAC also supported the Huttis in Rawanda. Further, commentators commenting in leftwing publication Mother Jones News as well as rightwing Worldnetdaily.com both claim that Ramsey Clark is paid counsel for the Government of Iraq. One of Ramsey Clark's associates is attorney Lynne Stewart, who is under indictment for perjury and aiding a terrorist organization and the convicted leader of the 1st WTC bombing. In the past, Ms. Stewart had publicly advocated violence in service to the "revolution." So, the leaders of founders of the anti-war movement are: 1: The paid lawyer and advocate for Saddam Hussein. 2. Organizations founded by him (A.N.S.W.E.R. and ICA) 3. The Communist Party (WWP and RCPUSA) According to Michelle Goldberg, a writer at Salon.com (hardly a rightwing rag) wrote: "They are cheerleaders for some of the most sinister regimes and insurgencies on the planet." In other words, the organizers of the protests and the authors of the message are *NOT* patriots, but people that any rational person would classify as traitors. What about the message being sent? In my opinion, the predominant messages that the anti-protesters seem to coalesce on is "Stop Bush." These tells me that for many, if not most, rank and file anti-war protesters (not their leadership), this is all about Gore not being President after the 2000 election. Somebody did interviews at one of the protests and uploaded them to the web (unfortunately, I've lost the URL), where what ever message is on their sign is underlain by their personal antipathy towards Bush. Some people on this list clearly and openly hate George Bush. That's fine -- you are entitled to your opinion -- but I find it objectionable that someone's hatred of Bush overrules all other arguments (and evidence) advanced to justify the war. If one goes to some of the anti-war websites, you'll see a list of "talking points" that they invite their supporters to use in trying to influence the debate. Some of these are: There is no smoking gun that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction. We can "contain" Saddam. The inspections are working. There is no proven link between Saddam and bin Laden. And so on. I'm no fan of Senator John McCain, but he hit it right on the head when he wrote: "Sept. 11, 2001 showed that al-Qaeda is a grave threat. Saddam Hussein has the ability to make a far worse day of infamy by turning Iraq into a weapons assembly line for al-Qaeda's network. Does anyone really want to vouch for Saddam, a pathological risk-taker with a history of violent aggression and an enormous stockpile of the world's worst weapons, when terrorists could help him attack us without fingerprints?" [US Senator John McCain, "Delay Can Be Dangerous," USA Today, http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-02-13-oppose_x.htm] Frankly, I think it is ludicrous to base our national security on the "word" of the anti-war movement. Just as I think it ludicrous to accept their argument that nobody should be allowed to own a firearm; that the state (and the criminals) should be the only holders of weapons in society. For one thing, they are proven liars and proven "stupids." These are the same people that said we couldn't take down Afghanistan without killing 4 million people (i.e., Noam Chomsky), that we'd be in a Vietnam-style Quagmire with tens of thousands of casualties, and that we had no proof that bin Laden was even involved. Most even seem to think that Bush ordered the attack -- except for those that think it was a Mossad operation and that Jews use the blood of Arab children during Passover. For another, they have a clear motivation -- they hate America and do not want it to prevail. Columbia University Assistant Professor Nicholas De Genova openly called for the deaths of American soldiers and a military defeat of the United States in Iraq, last week. He said at a "teach in" against the war: "The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military." Newsday also quoted him as saying, "I personally would like to see a million Mogadishus." [See: http://www.nynewsday.com/nyc-prof0329,0,2015886.story?coll=nyc-topheadli nes -right] Now in case anybody has any doubt where I stand, I consider rooting for the enemy to be treasonous. Finally, they publicly ignore the atrocities of the Iraqi government and refuse to accept the liberation of the Iraqi people from the "Butcher of Baghdad" as a rationale for war. This is not surprising, as their organizers are de-facto agents of the Iraqi government. Now, as to the way they are protesting. As I stated at the beginning of this missive, I support the right to dissent. What I do *not* support is the increasing levels of violence that the protesters are using. A month and a half ago, David Horowitz made this claim at his webzine: "Today's "peace" movement -- the innocent-intentioned along with the malevolent rest -- is a fifth column army in our midst working for the other side. Already their leaders have warned that if the United States remains determined to oppose this totalitarian evil and stay its intended course, they will act within our borders to "disrupt the flow of normal life" and sabotage the war. This is ultimately the most ominous threat Americans face. Abroad we can conquer any foe. The real danger lies at home." [David Horowitz, "Editorial: The March To Save Saddam," 2/17/2003, http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=6183] The evidence is bearing him out. In San Francisco last week, after a major anti-war protest, 12 Molotov cocktails were discovered in a backpack after the protesters disbanded. Last week, 11 NYPD officers were "maced" by the protesters during the "protest" in Manhattan. In Vermont, some anti-war protesters threw rocks at a female National Guard Officer in uniform. In California, some anti-war protesters defaced a private September 11 memorial on private property, while the police stood by and did nothing. And of course, in many cities (Chicago, San Francisco, NYC, to name some), innocent, non-involved people have had their lives disrupted by the anti-war protesters shutting down streets, bridges, and major intersections. Their message, in other words, is no longer persuasive, but extortion: "End the war or we'll hurt you." I object to this spoiled brat approach, in addition to their leadership, and their open cheering for the enemy. The second point I want to make (and then I'll shut up), is concerning the "celebrities" who openly object to the war. I think I've made my feelings plain about that fat, racist, leftist, pig Michael Moore. But the other "celebrities" deserve a roasting, too. Here's a recent posting from alt.politics.liberalism. I have no idea of the source, and consequently don't know if it is copyrighted or in the public domain. I'm going to assume the latter. Quote: Who's Smarter? The Hollywood group is at it again. Holding anti-war rallies, screaming about the Bush Administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the President and his Cabinet every chance they get with names like "stupid", "morons", and "idiots". Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American. So, just how ignorant are these people who are running the country? Let's look at the biographies of these "stupid", "ignorant" , "moronic" leaders, and then at the celebrities who are castigating them: President George W. Bush: Received a Bachelors Degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School. He served as an F-102 pilot for the Texas Air National Guard. Vice President Dick Cheney: Earned a B. A. in 1965 and a M. A. in 1966, both in political science. Secretary of State Colin Powell: Educated in the New York City public schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he earned a Bachelor's Degree in geology. His further academic achievements include a Master of Business Administration Degree from George Washington University. Secretary Powell is the recipient of numerous U. S. and foreign military awards and decorations. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld: Attended Princeton University on Scholarship (AB, 1954) and served in the U. S. Navy (1954-57) as a Naval aviator. Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge: Raised in a working class family in veterans' public housing in Erie, he earned a scholarship to Harvard, graduating with honors in 1967. After his first year at The Dickinson School of Law, he was drafted into the U. S. Army, where he served as an infantry staff sergeant in Vietnam, earning the Bronze Star for Valor. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice: Earned her Bachelor's Degree in Political Science, Cum Laude and Phi Beta Kappa, from the University of Denver in 1974; her Master's from the University of Notre Dame in 1975; and her Ph. D. from the Graduate School of International Studies at the University of Denver in 1981. (Note: Rice enrolled at the University of Denver at the age of 15, graduating at 19 with a Bachelor's Degree in Political Science (Cum Laude). So who are these celebrities? What is their education? What is their experience? Barbra Streisand : Completed high school. Career: Singing and acting Cher: Dropped out of school in 9th grade. Career: Singing and acting Martin Sheen: Flunked exam to enter University of Dayton. Career: Acting Jessica Lange: Dropped out of college mid-freshman year. Career: Acting Alec Baldwin: Dropped out of George Washington. Career: Acting Julia Roberts: Completed high school. Career: Acting Sean Penn: Completed High school. Career: Acting Susan Sarandon: Degree in Drama from Catholic University of America in Washington, D. C. Career: Acting Ed Asner: Completed High school. Career: Acting George Clooney: Dropped out of University of Kentucky. Career: Acting Michael Moore: Dropped out first year University of Michigan. Career: Movie Director Sarah Jessica Parker: Completed High School. Career: Acting Jennifer Anniston: Completed High School. Career: Acting Mike Farrell: Completed High school. Career: Acting Janeane Garofalo: Dropped out of College. Career: Stand up comedienne Larry Hagman: Attended Bard College for one year. Career: Acting While comparing the education and experience of these two groups, we should also remember that President Bush and his cabinet are briefed daily, even hourly, on the War on Terror and threats to our security. They are privy to information gathered around the world concerning the Middle East, the threats to America, the intentions of terrorists and terrorist-supporting governments. They are in constant communication with the CIA, the FBI, Interpol, NATO, The United Nations, our own military, and that of our allies around the world. We cannot simply believe that we have full knowledge of the threats because we watch CNN. We cannot believe that we are in any way as informed as our leaders. These celebrities have no intelligence-gathering agents, no fact-finding groups, no insight into the minds of those who would destroy our country. The silence was deafening from the Left when Bill Clinton bombed a pharmaceutical factory outside of Khartoum, or when he attacked the Bosnian Serbs in 1995 and 1999. He bombed Serbia itself to get Slobodan Milosevic out of Kosovo, and not a single peace rally was held. When our Rangers were ambushed in Somalia and 18 young American lives were lost, not a peep was heard from Hollywood. Yet now, after our nation has been attacked on its own soil, after 3,000 Americans were killed by freedom-hating terrorists while going about their routine lives, they hold rallies against the war. It is time for us, as citizens of the United States, to educate ourselves about the world around us. If future generations are going to enjoy the freedoms that our forefathers bequeathed us, if they are ever to know peace in their own country and their world, to live without fear of terrorism striking in their own cities, we must assure that this nation remains strong. We must make certain that those who would destroy us are made aware of the severe consequences that will befall them. Yes, it's a wonderful dream to sit down with dictators and terrorists and join hands, talking of world peace. But it is not real. We did not stop Adolf Hitler from taking over the entire continent of Europe by simply talking to him. We sent our best and brightest, and with strength and determination defeated the Nazi regime. President John F. Kennedy did not stop the Soviet ships from unloading their nuclear missiles in Cuba in 1962 with mere words. He stopped them with action and threat of immediate war. We did not end the Cold War with conferences. It ended because of the strong belief of President Ronald Reagan...PEACE through STRENGTH. End quote. So, at the bottom line, I *do* believe that those who protest this war really are "useful idiots" (at best) or actual traitors (at the other end) because they *are* giving "aid and comfort" to Iraq. There, I've said my piece. Sorry to have bored you. On to firearms and politics for me. ----------------------- end forwarded message from Jim Zoes --------------------- -- RKBA! ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** 4-19! ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Planck | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- Constitutional Government is dead; LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!!!!! -