From: roc-owner@xmission.com To: roc-digest@xmission.com Subject: roc Digest V2 #11 Reply-To: roc@xmission.com Errors-To: roc-owner@xmission.com Precedence: roc Digest Thursday, 27 June 1996 Volume 02 : Number 011 In this issue: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Check this out Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection RELEASE: NRA On Appropriations Committee Vote On CDC Funding JBGTs and Waco Re: JBGTs and Waco Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection RE: New Questions in 'Filegate' Re: militia survey to complete Re: militia survey to complete RE: New Questions in 'Filegate' See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the roc or roc-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wootan@dmi.net Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:27:15 -0700 Subject: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Chad Leigh posts: >I'd like real proof that foreign troops are in the US practicing such >manuevers. The NM Luftwaffe airbase doesn't count. That was a good move >IMHO. I must admit to being uninformed on this question. Some folks are fit to be tied because the Germans have a base in NM, now I see at least one opinion that it is just fine. I don't know what the excuse is for them to be there, nor do I know of any Constitutional reason why they should not be there, if for training etc. There could well be good reason for either viewpoint. Chad, how about a little more detail. If you feel it is fine for them to be there, why? Let's all try to remember back to the early 1970's Isreal had a detachment at McLellan AFB near Las Vegas for several years practicing with our Air Force on the ranges there. These folks were not here for any questionable reason at all, but simply to learn to use the equipment we had sold them to protect their own country. Possibly we are now preparing the Germans to protect their own homes without a quarter of a million Americans backing them up. Keep in mind, I am not expressing an opinion on this subject. I am asking for more details so that I can begin to form an opinions. Whuzzup? Jerry Wootan ------------------------------ From: neil@geol.niu.edu (Neil Dickey) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 11:11:36 CDT Subject: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Jerry Wootan wrote regarding the putative German airbase in New Mexico: >Possibly we are now preparing the Germans to protect their own homes without a >quarter of a million Americans backing them up. > >Keep in mind, I am not expressing an opinion on this subject. I am asking for >more details so that I can begin to form an opinions. Whuzzup? I believe that the Canadians have allowed the German Air Force to train on their bases as well. I remember being at a Canadian airport, some years ago, which was also used for military purposes, and seeing a squadron of German aircraft landing after a training operation. I enquired, and discovered that there was a permanent arrangement made for them to train there. If memory serves, it was a Mountie who told me what was going on. Regardless of what one feels about the UN, and the various "one-world" scenarios, it does appear to me reasonable that allies should make an effort to be sure that their armed forces can work together as smoothly as possible in the event of war. We are allies of the Germans, at least through NATO, and the fall of the Soviet Union has most definitely not made that alliance obsolete. As Jerry also pointed out, it is reasonable to teach our allies how to use equipment that they have purchased from us. For what it's worth. The opinions which I have expressed herein are entirely my own, unless other- wise noted. No-one else should be held responsible for what I think. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | D. N. Dickey | Virtuous motives, trammeled by inertia and | | Research Associate | timidity, are no match for armed and | | Northern Illinois Univ. | resolute wickedness. | | neil@earth.geol.niu.edu | - W. S. Churchill | | **Finger for public key** | | - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Howlin' Blue" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:24:14 -0600 Subject: Check this out http://www.motherjones.com/ Leroy, if you and TJ want to find out just how crazy an out house mouse you are, Mother Jones will tell you. Josh Sugarman writes the article, so you know it's balanced. I was amazed to find Neil Knox runs the entire organization from a concrete bunker in an undisclosed location, presumable with padded interior walls. Chris, if you have the blueprints for that bunker, please send them. I'd like to build one. Edgar, you should sue. I didn't see your name mentioned in any of the articles. Yes, folks, the current Mother Jones is doing an "expose'" on the NRA. It's good for a laugh or two if you have a minute or two to spare. Perhaps some of you might care to let Mother know how much you enjoy their "expose'". It certainly opened my eyes. I always thought "expose" was a titty bar in Austin. ------------------------------ From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 09:14:35 PST Subject: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection In <9606261527.AA06234@ns.dmi.net>, on Jun 26, wootan@dmi.net wrote: >Chad Leigh posts: > >>I'd like real proof that foreign troops are in the US practicing such >>manuevers. The NM Luftwaffe airbase doesn't count. That was a good move >>IMHO. > >I must admit to being uninformed on this question. Some folks are fit to be >tied because the Germans have a base in NM, now I see at least one opinion >that it is just fine. > >I don't know what the excuse is for them to be there, nor do I know of any >Constitutional reason why they should not be there, if for training etc. >There could well be good reason for either viewpoint. > >Chad, how about a little more detail. If you feel it is fine for them to be >there, why? Let's all try to remember back to the early 1970's Isreal had a >detachment at McLellan AFB near Las Vegas for several years practicing with >our Air Force on the ranges there. These folks were not here for any >questionable reason at all, but simply to learn to use the equipment we had >sold them to protect their own country. > >Possibly we are now preparing the Germans to protect their own homes without a >quarter of a million Americans backing them up. > >Keep in mind, I am not expressing an opinion on this subject. I am asking for >more details so that I can begin to form an opinions. Whuzzup? > >Jerry Wootan The reasoning as I recall, is that weather and terrain are better for training purposes over here. At least that was the excuse used when it first surfaced. - -- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | If Guns are | Let he who hath no | Keep weapon in every | by COLT; | outlawed, only | weapon sell his | Your hand = Freedom | DIAL | RIGHT WINGERS | garment and buy a | Powder on every side! | 1911-A1. | will have Guns. | sword. Jesus Christ | Dry. ------------------------------ From: "Howlin' Blue" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:33:36 -0600 Subject: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection Bill Vance wrote: > > The reasoning as I recall, is that weather and terrain are better for > training purposes over here. At least that was the excuse used when it > first surfaced. Seems I remember the german base was in NM and had to do with the expectation the next war would be in the mideast, as was the last, and there ain't a lot of desert in Germany. No opinion expressed, just saying what I remember. ------------------------------ From: "R. Knauer-AIMNET" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:49:23 -0500 Subject: RELEASE: NRA On Appropriations Committee Vote On CDC Funding From the NRA: >For Immediate Release For More Information: >June 25, 1996 NRA Public Affairs > (703) 267-3820 > > NRA ON APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE VOTE ON CDC FUNDING > "...a vote that restores responsibility to government." > >Washington, DC -- Health science triumphed over partisan politics >today when the House Appropriations Committee reprogrammed funds from >the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (NCIPC), a >division of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The >amount reprogrammed, according to NCIPC, equates to the amount the >Center spends on research condemned by independent experts as "biased" >and "shameful." > >"There is no room in good government for bad practices like recklessly >biased research and blatant political advocacy -- especially at >taxpayers' expense," said Mrs. Tanya K. Metaksa, Executive Director of >the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action. > >Mrs. Metaksa commended lawmakers for their contributions, including >U.S. Rep. Bob Livingston (R-Louisiana), U.S. Rep. Frank Riggs >(R-Calif.), U.S Rep. Jay Dickey (R-Arkansas), U.S. Rep. Henry Bonilla >(R-Texas) and U.S. Rep. Ernest Istook (R-Oklahoma). > >"To NCIPC's apologists, I'd say, 'Taxpayers demand accountability,'" >said Mrs. Metaksa. "They demand science that is politics-free. And >they demand that you read the report card on CDC-funded firearms >research. You'll find phrases like, 'Unscientific.' 'Unprincipled.' >A 'shameful performance.' These are grades assigned by independent >scholars from the University of Illinois to the Columbia Medical >School. When coupled with blatant political advocacy, bias simply >cannot withstand the light of day. > >"Today's vote is more than a vote for good government. It is a vote >that restores responsibility to government." > > -- nra -- > > >=+=+=+=+ >This information is provided as a service of the National Rifle >Association Institute for Legislative Action, Fairfax, VA. > >This and other information on the Second Amendment and the NRA is >available at: http://WWW.NRA.Org > - -- **************************************************** A I M N E T Advanced Internet Marketing Corporation World Wide Web Publishing http://www.aimtec.com/ **************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "R. Knauer-AIMNET" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:11:20 -0500 Subject: JBGTs and Waco The following is excerpted from an article by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard ('Victimised' FBI chief savages meddling Clinton) published in the London Telegraph, June 17, 1996. The entire article is archived at the Electronic Telegraph web site, http://www.telegraph.co.uk + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + [...] Disasters are now accumulating at a giddying pace. An infra-red surveillance tape has come to light showing that FBI snipers almost certainly opened fire on the Branch Davidians who burned to death in the Waco inferno in April 1993. More than 80 people died in that episode, many of them children, making it the worst tragedy caused by government action since the massacre of Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee in 1890. The FBI insists that it never fired a shot but the tape, which has been shown to The Sunday Telegraph, shows bursts of gunfire coming from snipers crouched alongside an FBI tank. The tape also shows that the FBI may have used "flash-bang" devices, in spite of official denials, that could have caused the fire. The Oklahoma bombing investigation has also been compromised by allegations from the FBI's top scientist in explosive analysis, Frederick Whitehurst. He says that the FBI crime lab has fabricated evidence in several important cases, including the World Trade Centre bombing and the Oklahoma investigation. It is now clear that the US prosecutors want to restrict the scope of the Oklahoma case to charges against two men, Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols If an FBI lab is willing to suppress, distort, or even plant evidence, what does that say about the rest of the organisation? [...] - -- **************************************************** A I M N E T Advanced Internet Marketing Corporation World Wide Web Publishing http://www.aimtec.com/ **************************************************** ------------------------------ From: neil@geol.niu.edu (Neil Dickey) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 15:31:07 CDT Subject: Re: JBGTs and Waco "R. Knauer-AIMNET" wrote in part: >The following is excerpted from an article by Ambrose >Evans-Pritchard ('Victimised' FBI chief savages meddling Clinton) >published in the London Telegraph, June 17, 1996. The entire >article is archived at the Electronic Telegraph web site, >http://www.telegraph.co.uk [ Article snipped ] I had a look and read the whole thing. The London Daily Telegraph has no political stake in U.S. politics that I can discern. Comparison of their coverage of this incident with what our own press carried should convince even the most credulous that the media in this country are hopelessly biased. The article is hugely significant, and I missed it first time 'round. It should be required reading. Thanks for the pointer, Bob. The opinions which I have expressed herein are entirely my own, unless other- wise noted. No-one else should be held responsible for what I think. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- | D. N. Dickey | Virtuous motives, trammeled by inertia and | | Research Associate | timidity, are no match for armed and | | Northern Illinois Univ. | resolute wickedness. | | neil@earth.geol.niu.edu | - W. S. Churchill | | **Finger for public key** | | - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Liberty or Death Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:22:52 -0700 Subject: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection >Regardless of what one feels about the UN, and the various "one-world" >scenarios, it does appear to me reasonable that allies should make an >effort to be sure that their armed forces can work together as smoothly >as possible in the event of war. We are allies of the Germans, at least >through NATO, and the fall of the Soviet Union has most definitely not >made that alliance obsolete. As Jerry also pointed out, it is reasonable >to teach our allies how to use equipment that they have purchased from >us. Dateline 1999. Well, it took a while to get here; the fact is that we're just one big global happy family these days. My house is your house. My army is your army. My strategic nuclear warheads are your strategic nuclear warheads. And remember, it's for democracy. And for the children. We've got to stop this nationalist hate; in today's modern complex world of the future, we just can't afford it. Matter of fact, with the new UN taxes, we really can't afford much of anything, but that's another story, and hey, we're *glad* to give everything we can to support the Russian Spetsnaz soze they can finish their job of stamping out those evil Chechnyans that just refuse to give up and die. What are they thinking over there, anyway??? And thank Gaia for the Gulf War Syndrome that's eliminated the majority of the nationalist US troops and their families. I feel so much happier and peaceful now that Blue Berets are on each street corner; I'm protected now from the evil terrorist militia (fortunately, most of them were wiped out in the Cleansing last year). And the cameras and microphones in each home - it's so good to know that Someone is watching out for my safety and that I'm never alone. I can't believe that we ever lived any other way. - - Monte - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Don't Tread On Me! <<< - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Psalm 33 * - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- O- ------------------------------ From: chad@pengar.com (Chad Leigh -- The Electronic GunShop) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:47:00 -0600 Subject: Re: FEMA -- BOSNIA connection >Chad Leigh posts: > >>I'd like real proof that foreign troops are in the US practicing such >>manuevers. The NM Luftwaffe airbase doesn't count. That was a good move >>IMHO. > >I must admit to being uninformed on this question. Some folks are fit to be >tied because the Germans have a base in NM, now I see at least one opinion >that it is just fine. > >I don't know what the excuse is for them to be there, nor do I know of any >Constitutional reason why they should not be there, if for training etc. >There could well be good reason for either viewpoint. > >Chad, how about a little more detail. If you feel it is fine for them to be >there, why? Let's all try to remember back to the early 1970's Isreal had a >detachment at McLellan AFB near Las Vegas for several years practicing with >our Air Force on the ranges there. These folks were not here for any >questionable reason at all, but simply to learn to use the equipment we had >sold them to protect their own country. > >Possibly we are now preparing the Germans to protect their own homes without a >quarter of a million Americans backing them up. > >Keep in mind, I am not expressing an opinion on this subject. I am asking for >more details so that I can begin to form an opinions. Whuzzup? > >Jerry Wootan Hi Jerry! This is how I understand it. I have not thouroughly researched this but what has been in the news together with other stuff I have come across, it all makes sense. The Luftwaffe (German Air Force) has had training squadrons based in the US for years. I have lived in Germany (non military) and friends in the German military told me about this as well as having heard it on the news and as a kid in Phoenix (with 2 AF bases nearby). The AF base in question was going to be shutdown by the US. An arrangement was made so that it is not shut down but rather leased to the Luftwaffe so that they can better coordinate their training. One important aspect to air force training is low level flying. This is almost impossible in Germany. It is a VERY political subject. Remember, Germany has 80 million folks in a land area slightly larger than Utah. There are no uninhabited zones. Low level flights disrupt the people's lives heavily and the subject has become very political and important in their elections. Also, Germany, being so small, is hard to train in because of the congested commercial airways and the fact that at 1000 mph, it doesn't take long to cross and so on. So, they have trained in the US out in the Southwest where there is lots of open land. This has been going on for a long while. An opportunity comes up to "save a base" that is going to close. This opportunity allows the Luftwaffe to lease the base and keep the people running the base employed and the local economy goign with military money. It also allows the Germans to practice their flying in a wide open area without the political landmines. Germany has been our ally for the last 50 years. This is just an ongoing allied thing. There is certainly a "status of forces" agreement that defines all the different things that happen. When the Germans get to carry out their laws when one of their soldiers breaks a law and when that soldier is turned over to US authorities. These things exist for the US forces in Europe and certainly for the Luftwaffe personnel stationed here. And they will certainly employ lots of civilians to run the base, much like US bases in Germanyt employ lots of Germans. And lots of supplies will be bought, etc. IMNSHO this is not any sort of new world order thing or some conspiracy thing. It is a WIN-WIN situation where we save a base and our ally gets better training facilities. regards Chad - ------------------------- Live Free or Die ! --------------------------- Chad Leigh | When Guns are Outlawed, Criminals Win! Pengar Enterprises, Inc -- Home of The Electronic GunShop (sm) http://www.xmission.com/~pengar/gunshop mailto:gunshop@pengar.com http://www.xmission.com/~pengar/gunshop/egs_text.html for text interface Ask me about it! Classifeds and Commercial Ads & free Firearms and Activism Info - --------------------$4/month commercial WWW space!!!-------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Larry A. Tate" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:05:47 -0500 Subject: RE: New Questions in 'Filegate' On Tuesday, June 25, 1996 10:51 AM, R. Knauer-AIMNET[SMTP:rcktexas@ix.netcom.com] wrote: >>From the news: > > New Questions in 'Filegate' > There are new questions about the FBI background files >obtained by the White House. Republican Senator Charles Grassley >of Iowa has sent a letter to FBI Director Louis Freeh, saying an >aide saw IRS documents among the hundreds of confidential >reports. Personal tax information is not supposed to be >distributed among other government agencies. The House resumes >hearings into the files controversy tomorrow, with testimony >from the political operatives who requested the FBI reports. > >----- > >Anybody have any earthly idea what the FBI is doing with IRS files? > >Maybe they have FFL (Federal Firearms License) files too - the ones gun >buyers have to fill out when they buy a handgun, etc. > >How much more will it take to awaken America - for citizens to become fully >outraged at the JBGTs. > >Bob Knauer > This just may be enough, Bob. At least this may be the straw that breaks the Razor('s)back. To reach the ultimate goal, though, requires constant pressure, activism, education (bracing...), "list participation", etc. We may not see the fruit in our lifetime... but, rest assured, it *IS* up to us. Not with "give up" defeatist cynicism. Not with "I don't care about anybody else, as long as I get what I want" selfishness. Not through "revolution" (sorry anarchists). But through deliberate evolution. Through constant ideological exchange such as is practiced in this (and several other) forums, we may just be remembered as the "Jeffersons" of our age. - ---------------------------------------------- Larry Tate ltate@computek.net "Necessity is the excuse for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of the tyrant and the creed of the slave." - -- William Pitt, 1763 - ---------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Brad Alpert Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:20:52 CST Subject: Re: militia survey to complete Hi, folks. Charlotte Meador is doing this research and she deserves our help. Please the the 3 minutes required to fill this out and return it to her. She's in earnest. Thanks - Brad ************* Hi- As a militia member who has participated in my focus groups for militia members for my study at the University of Houston, I hope you will complete the following survey ( the final step of my study) and return it to me. I will collect all the data, compile it and post the results to the misc.activism.militia newsgroup around the middle of August. You can return the survey to me by email or print it out and return by mail at C. Meador, P. O. Box 1275, Willis, TX 77378. Please post this survey form to all militia members or supporters that you may be in touch with. The more answers we get the better the data will be.If you have local bulletin boards or networks, please post it. Thanks for your help. MILITIA SURVEY Please read the following statements carefully. Some of them you will agree with, and some of them you may think are silly. Please put a number from 1 to 9 in the blank in front of the question with 1 representing "strongly agree" and 9 representing "strongly disagree". ____1.Militia groups, according to the Constitution, are to be composed of all able-bodied citizens from 18 to 45 years old with a few specifically cited exceptions. ____2. Militias are groups of neighbors who have organized and trained in order to be ready to help each other in times of emergency. ____3. Militias are paramilitary groups who are prepared to defend themselves from government persecution. ____4. The Constitution guarantees me the inherent right to own any weapon I deem necessary for protection. ____5. Citizen should own guns in order to be able to come to the aid of their neighbors in times of civil unrest. ____6. Owning a gun is just a common sense precaution. ____7. Every citizen has a duty to make sure the government does not exceed it authority. ____8. Nonviolent political action has always been the American way of affecting change. ____9.Violence against the government may be the only way to affect real change. ____10. Peaceful activities, such as educating the public about government corruption are the most effective ways to affect change. ____11. I love my country, but I fear my government. ____12. Ruby Ridge showed how the government treats people who disagree with it. ____13. The Oklahoma City bombing may be an example of over-reaction to government tyranny by some extremist. ____14. The Second Amendment is the Republic's reset button. ____15. The purpose of a militia group is to preserve and protect the citizen's right guarenteed by the Constitution. ____16. The purpose of a militia group is to prepare and train for community emergencies. ____17. The purpose of a militia group is to help the individual survive against government forces. ____18. The governmental system, and most people within it, are corrupt beyond redemption. ____19. Even good people in government get intoxicated with power and forget their legitimate role as defined by the Constitution. ____20. The enemy is anyone who seeks to pass or uphold laws that subvert the Constitution. ____21. As a militia member, I always use my vote to make a difference in government. ____22. As a militia member, I do not see voting or other forms of political activism as necessary to my survival. ____23. Grassroots political activism by militia members is the way to change government. ____24. Militia members should organize to take over the political processes of the two major political parties. ____25. Militia members should form their own party. ____26. Militias are about the Constitution, not about partisan politics. ____27. Militias should not get involved with parties politics because it would be impossible to break into their power structures. ____28. Information in the mainstream media connot be trusted. ____29. The most trustworthy information is what I get from friends and family members. ____30. The only information I need is that which tells me how to survive against government forces. THE FOLLOWING DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION WILL BE USED ONLY IN THE AGGREGATE TO PROVIDE A PROFILE OF THE TYPICAL MILITIA MEMBER ANSWERING THIS QUESTIONNAIRE. YOU MAY SKIP ANY OR ALL OF THE QUESTIONS YOU DO NOT WISH TO ANSWER. 31. My age ____18-25 ____26-35 ____36-45 ____46-55 _____56-65 ____over 60 32. I am: _____male ____female 33. My highest level of education is: _____some high school _____high school grad ____some college ____college grad ____some grad school _____advanced degree _____technical/vocational school 34. I have served in the U.S. military: ____yeas ____no 35. My annual income is: ____Under $10,000 ____10-20,000 ____20-30,000 ____30-40,000 ____40-50,000 ____50-60,000 ____over 60,000 36. Did you vote in the following elections: ____Presidential election of 1992 ____Congressional election of 1994 37. Do you plan to vote in the Presidential election of 1996? ____yes ___no 38. How many hours a week do you use the Internet? ___ 1-3 hrs ___3-6 hrs ___ 6-9 hrs ____9-12 hrs ___12-15 hrs ____more than 15 hrs 39. My ethnic origin is: ____African- American ____Native-American ____Hispanic ____Asian ____Caucasian ____Other 40. If you have any comments you would like to send me about the questionnaire, write them here. THANKS FOR YOUR PARTICIPATION. HELPFUL HINT: ON MOST SYSTEMS YOU CAN USE THE "FORWARD" FUNCTION TO SEND THIS BACK TO ME ON EMAIL. ONCE YOU ARE IN THE "FORWARD" FUNCTION, YOU CAN EDIT ( ANSWER THE QUESTIONS AND MAKE COMMENTS) THIS EMAIL MESSAGE AND THEN JUST SEND IT BACK TO ME. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, EMAIL ME AND I'LL TRY TO HELP. ------------------------------ From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 96 21:34:14 PST Subject: Re: militia survey to complete In <199606270319.WAA11850@sky.net>, on Jun 26, Brad Alpert wrote: >Hi, folks. > >Charlotte Meador is doing this research and she deserves our help. Please the the 3 >minutes required to fill this out and return it to her. She's in earnest. >Thanks - Brad >************* No offence, but why should we? What is she trying to do with this information? What does being "in earnest" have to do with anything? Why does she deserve our help? How about some detail here. - -- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | If Guns are | Let he who hath no | Keep weapon in every | by COLT; | outlawed, only | weapon sell his | Your hand = Freedom | DIAL | RIGHT WINGERS | garment and buy a | Powder on every side! | 1911-A1. | will have Guns. | sword. Jesus Christ | Dry. ------------------------------ From: wootan@dmi.net Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 23:27:19 -0700 Subject: RE: New Questions in 'Filegate' Larry Tate posts: >This just may be enough, Bob. At least this may be the straw that breaks >the Razor('s)back. To reach the ultimate goal, though, requires constant >pressure, activism, education (bracing...), "list participation", etc. >We may not see the fruit in our lifetime... but, rest assured, it *IS* up >to us. Not with "give up" defeatist cynicism. Not with "I don't care >about anybody else, as long as I get what I want" selfishness. Not through >"revolution" (sorry anarchists). But through deliberate evolution. Through >constant ideological exchange such as is practiced in this (and several other) >forums, we may just be remembered as the "Jeffersons" of our age. And I would add: The lists are a great place for exchange of information and ideas. However, stopping here is preaching to the choir. Be sure to take the solid information found on lists and pass it on to those who are not wired, and to those who don't WANT to hear it. I have made valuable points to liberals at least as often as I have been ignored, shouted at, threatened (financially), or been rebuked with nonsensical arguments. Some people can be educated, but not unless presented with information. They are not going to get the information available on these lists from the Blabla Times, so it is our job to see that they get it. Don't be shy. Tell other what we know to be true. Sure, some of them will think you are nuts. Just like they did 18 months ago when we told them that slick willie was in Whitewater up to his ears. Those who think you are nuts will learn the truth, and you will be vindicated in time. (Excepting of course those who really ARE nuts. ;-) ) " we may just be remembered as the "Jeffersons" of our age.", but not if we keep it all to ourselves. Jefferson spoke up! We must also! Jerry Wootan ------------------------------ End of roc Digest V2 #11 ************************ To subscribe to roc Digest, send the command: subscribe roc-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@xmission.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-roc": subscribe roc-digest local-roc@your.domain.net A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "roc-digest" in the commands above with "roc". 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