From: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com (roc-digest) To: roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: roc-digest V2 #48 Reply-To: roc-digest Sender: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-roc-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk roc-digest Monday, January 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 048 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:45:25 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Re: ABC News Site on Philadelphia Gun Suit (fwd) I just voted, and the results are as follows; No: 83.2% Yes: 16.7% Total: 1,794 At 01:41 AM 1/16/98 PST, you wrote: >At the moment, (1:00 AM), it's up to: > > No: 78.2 percent > Yes: 21.7 percent > Total: 755 > > >On Jan 15, David Wisniewski wrote: > >[-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] > >More on the Philadelphia gun suit: >http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/philaguns0114/index.html > >Plus you can vote on the question, "Do you think gun makers should >pay for the costs associated with gun violence?" > >Yes: 27.1% >No: 72.8% >out of 545 votes > >-- >David Wisniewski **FOR SALE: EGW 38 Super Caspian IPSC Open w/ 8 mags** >davidwiz@erols.com USPSA/IPSC A-28835 >http://www.uspsa.org > > What is past is prologue > >[------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** >----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- >An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no >weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his >hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a >on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ >----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- > >- > > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:20:33 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: Kennedy unveils bill requiring reporting of ammunition purchases >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:45:03 -0500 >From: E Pluribus Unum >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) >To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network >Subject: Kennedy unveils bill requiring reporting of ammunition purchases > >Kennedy unveils bill requiring reporting of ammunition purchases > >Associated Press, 01/16/98 17:25 > >CUMBERLAND, R.I. (AP) - In an attempt to keep weapons from being >used by criminals, U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy on Friday unveiled >legislation that would require people to register when they buy >ammunition. > >Anyone who purchases more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition would have >to fill out a form which would identify them to the Bureau of Alcohol, >Tobacco and Firearms if the bill became law. > >The purchases would be recorded into the ATF database, which already >tracks people who buy more than one handgun during any five-day period. > >Kennedy believes that the bill would have a chilling effect on illegal >ammunition trafficking by monitoring anyone who buys large quantities >and may be selling it on the street. > >Kennedy announced his initiative at a news conference at the Cumberland >police station. > >Chief Anthony Silva said regulating ammunition would complement other >gun control measures such as the seven-day waiting period for a >background check. > >The law would exempt .22-caliber ammunition, rifle and shotgun >ammunition, and military, law enforcement and rifle and sportsmen's >clubs. Kennedy said exempting the .22-caliber ammunition was a >concession to help the bill's chances of passage. > >The largest gun dealer in the area, who supplies nearly all police >departments in Rhode Island, Connecticut and southern Massachusetts, >opposed the legislation. > >``Another paperwork drill that goes nowhere,'' said Frank Herrera, owner >of Quick Arms and Supply Co. in Warwick. > >Dealers who sell ammunition on the black market use supplies that are >stolen, Herrera said. > >Donn DiBiasio, a National Rifle Association representative and >Providence gun dealer, said the bill would create a burden of paperwork >for gun hobbyists and dealers and would fail to stop criminals. > >``We see no evidence that crackdowns on regulated commerce ... impacts >gun violence,'' said Tom Wyld, NRA spokesman in Fairfax, Va. > >Federal officials testified in the 1980s that registering ammunition >served no law enforcement purpose, and a federal requirement to register >ammunition was dropped in 1986, Wyld said. > >Kennedy, who will introduce the bill with Rep. Rod Blagojevich, D-Ill. >later this month, said that if the measure worked in only a fraction of >cases it would be worth it. > >He acknowledged there is not much support for gun control measures in >Congress and predicted a fight to get it passed. > >The bill is the latest gun control measure to be sponsored by Kennedy, >whose uncles President John F. Kennedy and Sen. Robert Kennedy were shot >to death. > > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:28:02 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: OKC-Key Responds to Istook (fwd) Paul, There seems to be some missing information in the news copy that was sent by you. In those places there is a capital 'O' with an umlat (double dot over the 'O'). Was this the way you received it? In later posts it turns to '=3D85' Those places are included in part below: CHARLES KEY (State Representative): Well, I guess on the one hand it is to be expected. It's unfortunate that this had to happen like this, but it's =D6 the fact is, these two gentlemen . . . -- BOHNEN: I talked to Lana Tyree and to the Congressman. Both believe=D6 I think Lana Tyree . . . -- KEY: Well, frankly, after everything that we've=D6 I think the best way to understand and answer that is for people to understand everything that we've been through. We've been viciously and personally attacked from the very beginning, and misrepresented in many cases along the way. And I didn't expect to have the kind of response that you would want to have. I think the response=D6 What I mean by . . . -- BOHNEN: In other words=D6 I have a . . . -- ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 11:42:28 PST From: Jack@minerva.com Subject: Re: OKC-Key Responds to Istook (fwd) roc@lists.xmission.com wrote : > Paul, > > There seems to be some missing information >in the news copy that was sent by you. > In those places there is a capital 'O' with an >umlat (double dot over the 'O'). > Was this the way you received it? > In later posts it turns to '=3D85' > > Those places are included in part below: > >CHARLES KEY (State Representative): Well, I guess on the one hand it is to >be expected. It's unfortunate that this had to happen like this, but it's >=D6 the fact is, these two gentlemen . . . > > -- > >BOHNEN: I talked to Lana Tyree and to the Congressman. Both >believe=D6 I think Lana Tyree . . . > > -- > >KEY: Well, frankly, after everything that we've=D6 I think the best way to >understand and answer that is for people to understand everything that >we've been through. We've been viciously and personally attacked from the >very beginning, and misrepresented in many cases along the way. And I >didn't expect to have the kind of response that you would want to have. I >think the response=D6 What I mean by . . . > > -- > Keyboards are much richer in characters than many internet providers are willing to concede. As long as a message only contains characters that are expressable with 7 bits all is well.....but when messages contain characters that require more than 7 bits some services do a partial encoding by sending all the chacters that take 8 bits as an equals sign followed by the hex equivalent of the character and marks the text as quoted printable and assume that the mailer at the other end will convert all the equal signs followed by hex back into the correct characters. Other mailers just mark the whole message as binary and assume that since 8 bit characters are being transmitted the receiving mailer will look on binary as a stream of 8 bit characters. Some mailers refuse the binary input and for awhile AOL bounced messages that containted an 8 bit character in order to enhance its aura of great user friendliness Jack >BOHNEN: In other words=D6 I have a . . . > > -- > >ET > > > >- > > > Jack Perrine | ATHENA Programming, Inc | 626-798-6574 | ---------------- | 1175 No. Altadena Drive | fax 398-8620 | jack@minerva.com | Pasadena, CA 91107 US | - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:36:52 -0700 From: "E.J. Totty" Subject: Re: Kennedy unveils bill requiring reporting of ammunition purchases Tom, [...] . . . U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy on Friday unveiled legislation that would require people to register when they buy ammunition. [...] What is it about the Kennedy clan? Are they all terminally mentally ill? Is there some disease of the brain that causes them to perpetually assume the cranial-anal position? Or is it that they've never had any backbone, and want everyone else not to have one either? As time goes on, it seems that more and more of them are indeed inheriting the earth. ET - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:22:14 -0800 (PST) From: Boyd Subject: Re: Kennedy unveils bill requiring reporting of ammunition purchases I have this irritating proclivity to answer rhetorical questions, sorry : ) The dark side of Camelot is the most amazing book, especially for a 30 something with a modern "education". I -highly- recommend it to all of you, It's written by award winning journalist Seymour Hersh and is a captivating tale largely about the lust for power that seems to run succesfully in this family. I think the real question here is why the idiot-voters keep putting them in power. BK - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:22:14 -0800 (PST) From: Boyd Subject: Re: Kennedy unveils bill requiring reporting of ammunition purchases I have this irritating proclivity to answer rhetorical questions, sorry : ) The dark side of Camelot is the most amazing book, especially for a 30 something with a modern "education". I -highly- recommend it to all of you, It's written by award winning journalist Seymour Hersh and is a captivating tale largely about the lust for power that seems to run succesfully in this family. I think the real question here is why the idiot-voters keep putting them in power. BK - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:43:15 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: Breaking News WASHINGTON D.C.--In a strategic move calculated to bring racial discrimination to an end once and forever in America, Black Protester Dick Gregory announced that he will lead a prayer vigil and protest rally in front of the Justice Department on Monday, January 19, diversely known as Martin Luther King Day. The purpose of the rally, according to Gregory, is to "...expose the cover-up of the murder of Ron Brown, specifically targeting Attorney General Janet Reno as the ringleader of a racist conspiracy against the brothers." "Ron Brown was a man," declared Gregory, "A black man." While Gregory's rally has the support of virtually the whole of the American mainstream media, there does appear to be some confusion in the ranks. Time and Newsweek announced that they, at least, intend to give their full support to Janet Reno, whom they declared to be "a female Attorney General." White House spokesman Mike McCurry, in a special press briefing late Sunday night, stated that the president has never requested oral sex from Dick Gregory, and that even if he had, there is no controlling legal authority. Meanwhile, FBI Director Louie Freeh alleged that Gregory's planned protest and prayer vigil is, in fact, a clever attempt by the white supremacist extremist militia to cause blood to run in the streets of the nation's capital. When it was pointed out to Freeh that Gregory is Black, Freeh stated, "In the words of Carl Klang, it's all an evil, filthy, rotten conspiracy." - - Jefferson Adams - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:50:01 -0800 From: Liberty or Death Subject: May We See Your Papers Please? From Jackie Juntti's website - http://home.earthlink.net/~idzrus/index.html - ------- Did you know you have to provide 'GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION' to travel? I took one of my very infrequent trips on an airplane last week. I had been forewarned by one of my daughters that I would HAVE to produce a Drivers License in order to get past the baggage check-in desk. Well, this just happens to be an extremely sensitive issue with me and I said, "NO WAY," I will get on that plane using my Costco card as it has my photo on it. I did call the airline and ask what the deal was on identification. I did this as the plane tickets were a gift from my brother and sister-in-law and I couldn't goof up their gift to me to prove a point. The person I spoke with on the phone was very polite in telling me that I would indeed need GOVERNMENT ISSUED ID to board the plane. I asked what is considered Government Issued ID? She explained that would be a state issued Drivers License, a state issued Identification Card, or a Passport. I asked what a person can do that has none of those items. She replied, then you must get one of them. I told her my flight was scheduled the next day so there was no time to get any of those items and just whom would I talk with to discover what other options would be available. Her response was to go talk with the airport security at the airport. I did not do that, choosing instead to take my chances of just going to the airport and seeing what would happen. I love real life adventures. Upon arriving at Sea-Tac I gave my daughter the usual hug and kiss and said "Bye, see you in a week" - or whatever. Grabbed my luggage and headed towards the baggage/ticket counter. When my turn came I placed my suitcase on the proper spot and handed the clerk my tickets. She looked at them and asked for ID. I opened my purse and my wallet and pulled out my Costco Card and handed it to her. Believe me, this was a Kodak Moment!!!! She recovered and then explained that I needed to produce GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. The ensuing discussion was long (took about 15 minutes to get past this point to the next step) and I will just summarize for this writing. Oh yes, there were many people standing around that heard all of this. We went back and forth over GOVERNMENT ISSUED ID and my comments about why did I need a drivers license, I wasn't driving the plane--that I thought I lived in America and we had freedom here and hadn't reached the point of having to PRODUCE OUR PAPERS. Next we discussed how someone who flies only every few years is to know of these socialist rules. The requirement of needing GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION is not printed on the tickets or the envelopes that contain the tickets. And, as I looked around where I stood (where they sell tickets) there was not any notice concerning that rule. She explained that I would have been advised at the time I purchased the tickets of the ID requirement. I told her I didn't purchase the tickets, they were a gift and had been mailed to me. "Well, it is FAA rules", she said. I asked for a copy of those rules so that I could see for myself if that was indeed true. She didn't have a copy and told me to contact FAA for one. I explained that it was odd that IF that is the rule then it should be readily available for the public to see. The conversation then went to how safe she feels knowing that everyone on the plane has GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION as it makes everyone SAFER and more SECURE. I remarked that false identification is not that hard to get and I didn't understand how the possession of possibly false GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION could make anyone feel safer. I certainly didn't feel any safer or more secure knowing that all passengers carried GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. We agreed that we seemed to have different views on what constitutes SAFETY and SECURITY. (I really wanted to explain how the FBI, BATF, CIA, had GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION and I wondered how SAFE & SECURE the Randy Weaver family and the Branch Davidians felt knowing that those firing on them had GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. I don't think she would have comprehended the relationship at all). I finally asked her point blank if the fact that I didn't produce any GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION was going to create denial of my boarding the plane. She was very exasperated at this point as I am sure they have not been taught how to deal with nice little old ladies that aren't nasty or threatening but just asking honest questions. She then reached down below her counter area and pulled out a very bright flourescent orange strip of card stock, approx 18 inches x 1.5 inches that she folded around my purse strap and stapled it. I was told NOT TO REMOVE it either. She then explained that I would HAVE to submit to a physical search of my purse upon passing thru the metal detection area. AND, be sure they punch this strip after you have been searched or YOU WILL NOT GET ON THAT PLANE!!! I looked at her and asked if the searchers were aware that they had to punch that strip of bright orange paper after they searched my purse? "Yes, they know that," she replied. "Well then, I guess it is their responsibility to punch it and not mine to be sure they do, right?" She didn't really answer me but made it clear in motions that she was done with me and for me to proceed so she could help the next person. I proceeded to the metal detection area where a long line was waiting to be ‘detected.' I was not carrying anything other than my purse which had this BRIGHT orange flagging on it so that everyone would know I was some sort of criminal and not a compliant little sheep following the dictates of the NWO. I enjoy watching people so this gave me a lot of entertainment as I stood in line. When I reached the position of approximately 7th in line the man that I presume is an observer was saying something. I didn't realize right away that he was talking to me. When it dawned on me that he was directing his comments to me I asked him to please repeat what he said as I had not heard him. He smiled broadly and pointed at the BRIGHT orange flagging and asked me WHAT I had done to deserve that as they rarely ever see that on a passenger. Keep in mind this area was crowded and the voice level had to be raised in order to be heard. I made sure my purse became very visible and smiling, I told him (loudly) that I was guilty of NOT PRODUCING GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION as I thought I lived in AMERICA and didn't realize I was living in NAZI GERMANY!!! This definitely caught the attention of many and the observer smiled and said OK, he understood. By this time I was at the metal detector and placed my purse on the conveyor belt and walked thru to be ‘detected.' A nice young black woman took my purse and asked me to please step to the side with her as they needed to physically search my purse. I said fine and followed her to a window sill. She explained she had to call for a supervisor. When the supervisor appeared the first person began to remove the items from my purse. I love these exercises. I have a well stocked purse, too. In fact, it was even more so than usual as I had my 8 oz bottle of Colloidal Silver in my purse so that it wouldn't spill in my suitcase. I am an E'Ola Distributor and I take the C.S. daily as a preventative anti-biotic (I am allergic to all but two prescription anti-biotics) so I had to have it with me. I had to explain what was in the bottle, which I did. I told both of them they were lucky I had not brought my little C.S. Maker (for making the C.S. myself) as it has three batteries and wires and silver probes. That would have made them all nervous and probably landed me in a cell somewhere. Both of them were very nice and polite through this process. After all items were removed and those that needed explanation were explained, the woman attempted to replace the items in my purse. After a while of watching the attempted repack I asked if there was any rule that prevented me from repacking it. She gratefully said no, so I did the chore. As I was repacking my purse the supervisor (he was of Asian decent) asked me WHY I went through all of this. I explained to him that I was born in America almost 58 years ago and I still believed in ALL the freedoms that Americans are supposed to have. Also, that I would continue to exercise my rights as I understand them until the day I die in spite of the Socialist restraints being imposed upon the people of this Country. This man looked me square in the eyes and told me "thank you" and to please continue doing it. He wished more people would stand against these things as I have chosen to do. I wish I would have had more time to find out where he came from and to hear his story but flight time was fast arriving so off I went to the boarding area. I made mental notes of the expressions on the faces of those that would see my BRIGHT orange flagging (reminded me of the YELLOW STAR during WWII) and wished I had time to explain to them the reason why I had it. Perhaps a few understood. I boarded the plane without further stops and arrived in Reno on time. An amazing event took place in spite of my not having produced GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION but only using a Costco Card to get on board--all of the passengers on that flight arrived SAFELY, can you believe it? No one was harmed by my lack of producing GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION. - - Monte -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Maybe freedom's just one of those things that you can't inherit." - Peter Bradford, in the film "Amerika" -------------------------------------------------------------------- The Idaho Observer http://www.proliberty.com/observer - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 01:05:38 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Heard this one ?? (fwd) On Jan 19, Douglas Davis wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Subject: Heard this one ?? >Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) > >Hi, Have ya heard this one ? > The same day he praised the new guidelines on gun safety, the Toledo >Police Chief left his >loaded gun under the seat of a rented vehicle. Chief Gerald Galvin was >called by Lucas Counties Sheriff's Department and informed that they had >found his .380-caliber, semiautomatic weapon under the seat of the rental >car. > > Galvin had just praised a decision by eight U.S. manufacturers to abide >by new safety lock guidelines, saying that they, "provided another >added safety level to weapons." > >C ya, >Rick > > ****************** Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda Latest additions are found in the group NEW with GOA and other alerts under the heading ALERTS. For those without browser capabilities, send [request index.txt] to davisda@rmi.net and an index of the files at this site will be e-mailed to you. Then send [request ] and the requested file will be sent as a message. Various shareware programs are archived at: ftp://shell.rmi.net/pub2/davisda To receive the contents of the FTP site, send [request index.ftp] to davisda@rmi.net FTP capabilities needed to retrieve programs. ******************** [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 12:27:27 PST From: roc@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) Subject: Re: Coors is outa here! (fwd) Ok, so the Constitution and Tax Payer Parties have decided to join together. What's that mean? If the United We Stand folks and the Libertarian Parties decide to join up, it could mean a _Major_ Political upset in 2000. If you think that's unlikely, consider the following: 80% of the Democrat and Republican Parties are Anti-Partial Birth Abortion, yet the opposition's momentum coupled with the Clintonista/ Liberal Agenda has still managed to carry the day for them. Just about no one with any brains _or_, "compassion", is for this particularly gruesome form of infanticide. I'm not sure where UWSA and the Libertarians weigh in on this, but if the numbers hold true across the board as they appear to, then we _may_ see a new major Coalition Party. The Libertarians may need to temporarily swallow a bit of their pride, (some of the more contention causing parts of their agenda), in order to do it, but they would gain a major step up in the number of Office Holders. It'll be interesting to see who ponies up and who doesn't. Considering that the majority of the above mentioned Third Parties claim to be, "Pro-Constitution", and considering the Pro-Gun rhetoric I've heard from most of them, it is perhaps time we consider jumping on the bandwagon ourselves, or at least keeping a good, "weather eye", on the situation, and making up some possible contingency plans. Our ship may have just come in. "On Jan 19, Jo wrote:" [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] >Subject: FW: GOP exodus has begun > >Saturday, January 17th, the great-grandson of Adolph Coors informed James >Nicholson, RNC Chairman, via letter that he was leaving the Republican >Party for the American Constitution Party, the >US Taxpayers Party affiliate in Colorado. Below is the contents of the >letter, with the phone number and address removed. I verified the story >with Coors via telephone on Saturday evening. Tim Leonard ACP Chairman is >listed below for verification. I agree with Grover Coors, that the >exodus has begun and the Republican Assemblies will be ineffectual in >steming the great flood from the GOP to the USTP. > >W. Grover Coors > >James Nicholson, Chairman >Republican National Committee 310 First Street, S.E. >Washington D.C., 20003 > >Dear Jim: > > Today I am changing my affiliation from the Republican Party to the >American Constitution Party. I suspect many like me will do the same. This >is a sad day in the life of what was once a proud party. I was with you in >San Diego when a strong pro-life plank was put into the Republican >platform. As you recall, it was this plank and the selection of a pro-life >vice presidential running mate that allowed Pat Buchanan to graciously bow >out of the race so as not to split the Party, even though no one believed >that Bob Dole stood a chance of winning the election. I now regret that I >supported and encouraged >that decision. > > In the name of political pragmatism, the Republican Party has decided to >embrace all of its friends who advocate the most heinous forms of >infanticide. In trying to stand for everything, you have made a mockery of >the Platform and sent a clear message that the Republican Party stands for >nothing. Whats next: Republicans for Socialism, Republicans for Ethnic >Cleansing, Republicans for Pedophilia? >I am too ashamed for words to express how I feel about my long association >with the Republican Party. > > Sincerely, > > Grover Coors >cc: Steve Curtiss, Chairman, The Colorado Republican Party > Tim Leonard, State Chairman, The American Constituion Party > Marty Nalitz, KNUS Radio > >Principle contact is Tim Leonard, State Chairman of the American >Constitution Party in Colorado. >303-674-7902 [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:19:00 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Coors is outa here! (fwd) What do we know about the American Constitution Party? What exactly do they advocate? My theory is that there is tremendous resentment against the U.S. tax system and the R's have demonstrated their incompetency in reforming it. Whoever can latch onto this issue most effectively can win the 2000 election hands down. Abolish the I.R.S., put in a sales tax that totally replaces income tax on earned and unearned income. I don't think that we are capable of reforming the income tax code, as too many pointy bureaucrats and lawyers and CPA's are involved. Throw it out totally. Restoring the Constitution is a little too abstract for most people, but whoever can demonstrate movement towards *real* tax reform is going to capture enormous momentum. It will be fun watching Republican "moderates" arguing for little baby reforms (like the last one they just blew) while the American people work out their outrage and elect somebody else (most probably a "radical" Republican who sweeps Iowa and N.H., then welcomes outlying parties to join in the fun). [one can always dream]. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:37:05 -0800 From: Skip Leuschner Subject: Re: Coors is outa here! (fwd) John Curtis wrote: > > My theory is that there is tremendous resentment against the > U.S. tax system and the R's have demonstrated their incompetency > in reforming it. Whoever can latch onto this issue most > effectively can win the 2000 election hands down. Abolish > the I.R.S., put in a sales tax that totally replaces income > tax on earned and unearned income. I don't think that > we are capable of reforming the income tax code, as too many > pointy bureaucrats and lawyers and CPA's are involved. Throw > it out totally. > If you believe what you've written above, you don't have to find another party. You just need to check out Steve Forbes' platform for a potential presidential run as a Repub in 2000. You say he can win hands down, which I doubt, but in principle you and he (and I) are pretty much on the same track. He wants real tax system reform in the worst way - trash the entire tax code and get the associated power and corruption out of DC. His proposal is flat tax, same for everyone, no mortgage deduction and no other fat-cat loopholes, but I'm convinced that's only because he knows (as I do) that doing away with income tax entirely is too radical. An ignorant/apathetic electorate wouldn't understand it (or try to), and certainly no one who feeds at the tax-code trough inside-the-beltway will support it. Check out Forbes. You may like what the man has to say. Like Perot, he'll provoke some interesting campaign debates even if he doesn't get nominated. Always glad to provide bits of useful info. Skip. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:47:50 -0800 (PST) From: Boyd Subject: Re: Coors is outa here! (fwd) Skip, I was Forbes 3rd biggest fan in my state. At the time the chair of my gop district and myself were rooting for Steve in a -big- way, when most of the other staffers in the district were split behind others and saw no way Forbes could win. When the Washington state coordinator announced on KVI radio that buttons were available at his chirocproctic office in Bellevue, Faye called me at work and we both met down there in only about 30 minutes, alas to late for any of the materials. But Steve has changed. He's gone from someone with an incredible depth of understanding of economics and public policy to this wider broader coalitioned (whiter brighter) "stop the drugs" guy. I know a lot of folks here think that's cool but I do not. I am -extremely- disappointed in his change wich I think he projects as a Principled sort of "move to the middle". Unfortunately, endorsing the War on some Drugs and some of his more classically conservative stands have made him less pro freedom in my book. I still have hope for him, I still have one solitary Forbes 96 button that I'd like to take out of the closet. But I'm not going to get enthusiastic about a pro freedom candidate untill someone comes along who understands that it's about all our freedoms all of the time. Boyd Kneeland - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:54:27 -0500 (EST) From: John Curtis Subject: Re: Coors is outa here! (fwd) Skip, RE: Forbes. He's my man. I like everything he says, with the sole exception of some of the gold standard stuff, which sounds like rather antiquated economics to me. I think he is misguided on gold, but not unprincipled. He has passed my sincerity test, as he is a somewhat awkward rich kid who has got derided by public and commentators and he is still coming back. His flat tax proposal is right on. I'm trying to talk my wife into hosting a Steve Forbes coffee here in scenic Southern New Hampshire. We were involved with Lamar Alexander in '96 as campaign hanger-ons. If I can't switch her allegiance to Forbes, I'm going to ask for equal time! I don't really think any serious tax reformer can win easily, but I do think that there is a lot of sleeping power in the issue and Forbes looks like the guy with enough berries to fight the good fight. g. Bush Jr, Lamar, Forbes, buchanan - take a look at these guys - bush Jr. - professional moderate R and all around typical politico lamar - smart guy, $500k/yr lawyer, can't tell us why he's running, parrots moderate R party line buchanan - former political commentator, very funny and bright guy, not above bowing to the Nazi's among us (and they are out there). he's got a good gig going, never going to be President and he knows it. dan quayle - know nothing low-level political jerk who worked his way above his abilities Forbe's big minus: goofy looking, son of a rich guy, dad was gay, has vestiges of acne, doesn't project as an alpha male. His big plus: has *absolutely* the right ideas, could spark an American renaissance. he's sincere about helping the country and he's got a plan. No where near as crazy as Perot. Two words for each of the rest: Dan Quayle: missing mind Lamar: deceptive lawyer Buchanan: closet fascist Bush Jr: white bread jack curtis - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:29:26 -0500 From: Tom Cloyes Subject: NEWS ORGANIZATION E-MAIL ADDRESS LIST >Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:32:47 -0500 >From: E Pluribus Unum >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) >To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network >Subject: NEWS ORGANIZATION E-MAIL ADDRESS LIST > >Dear Fellow American, > >Thanks to "Leroy Crenshall" < > > >Here is a list of news organization e-mail addresses that you might want >to use for press releases. > >David > > >********************************************************************* >KSpeicher@GlobeAndMail.ca, > >letters@york.interport.net, > >nightly@nbc.com, > >dateline@nbc.com, > >today@nbc.com, > >TOTNMAIL@npr.org, > >MORNING@npr.org, > >news@globe.com, > >WEBMAIL@pbs.org, > >wtletter@wt.infi.net, > >cnn.feedback@cnn.com, > >vpmedia@newsusa.com, > >webmasters@nando.net, > >webmaster@www.radio.cbc.ca, > >time-webmaster@pathfinder.com, > >lynn@trib.com, > >necn@aol.com, > >newsroom@4bypass.com, > >wcvb@aol.com, > >kironews7@kiro-tv.com, > >vblock@whdh.com, > >ADVLetters@aol.com, > >Advocate@CapeCodAccess.com, > >dcaccavaro@newmassmedia.com, > >news@NantucketBeacon.com, > >ilyal@world.std.com, > >jbnews@projo.com, > >BALTCHRON@aol.com, > >hwchronicle@cnc.com, > >bevcitizen@cnc.com, > >clarion@clarioncall.com, > >c-news@world.std.com, > >DATELINE@NBC.COM, > >mail@stardem.com, > >buffalo@amcity.com, > >fleecing@nbc.com, > >Comments@foxnews.com, > >jamess@mhv.net, > >cgazette@epix.net, > >gazette@dailygazette.com, > >newsroom@gazettenet.com, > >hgazette@aol.com, > >sgonline@servtech.com, > >newstips@telegram.infi.net, > >guideny@cityguideny.com, > >leader@superior.net, > >herald@portland.com, > >letters@vanpubco.com, > >adin@together.net, > >editor@stonehamonline.com, > >independent@peconic.net, > >boston@amcity.com, > >watson1@centralmaine.com, > >newsroom@poughkee.gannett.com, > >rbjournal@aol.com, > >abc7@abc.com, > >webmaster@2online.com, > >kcci@kcci.com, > >kcco@kccotv.com, > >mailroom@kcncnews4.com, > >kcoy@kcoy.com, > >kctv@kctv.com, > >news@kdlh.com, > >kens-gw@kens-tv.com, > >kepi58@telapex.com, > >kepr-tv@owt.com, > >k-eyetv@k-eyetv.com, > >kfda@arn.net, > >news8@kfmb.com, > >kfsm@kfsm.com, > >kgan@kgan.com, > >tv4@kgbttv.com, > >news5@cbs5.com, > >11listens@khou.com, > >khsltv@maxinet.com, > >newsroom@kidk.com, > >kimt@willowtree.com, > >kironews7@kiro-tv.com, > >47oys@kjeo.com, > >klas@infi.net, > >klbk@klbk.com, > >comments@kltv.com, > >kmbc@aol.com, > >kmeg@kmeg.com, > >intouch@kmtv3.com, > >koco@aol.com, > >tv12kode@aol.com, > >koin@koin.com, > >k13mktg@rtd.com, > >kolr10@kolr10.com, > >news@kpax.com, > >tvnews@kpix.com, > >krcg@socketis.net, > >krcrtv@awwwsome.com, > >ktab@camalott.com, > >news11@alaska.net, > >ktvl@ktvl10.com, > >ktvt@ktvt.com, > >nwnews@kval.com, > >kvia@aol.com, > >news@kwch.com, > >kwtvpo@kwtv.com, > >cbs13@mosquitonet.com, > >news25@kxxv.com, > >citylegacy@pipeline.com, > >sk@brooklynny.com, > >cl@citylimits.org, > >ndn@ecnnews.com, > >samlink@together.net, > >TriTownDeb@aol.com, > >i&mnews@nantucket.net, > >oped@csps.com, > >pbakke@cmonitor.com, > >mtp@nbc.com, > >today@nbc.com, > >dateline@nbc.com, > >fleecing@nbc.com, > >interns@antonnews.com, > >bdnmail@bangornews.infi.net, > >necn@aol.com, > >jwilson@mail.tds.net, > >editor@pbn.com, > >sen@ecnnews.com, > >lwhite@times-news.com, > >rjurgens@vnews.com, > >newscan@vcn.bc.ca, > >newscan@vcn.bc.ca, > >info@nynow.com, > >observer@oweb.com, > >observer@dmi.net, > >news@capecodonline.com, > >compsaver@psaver.com, > >babcockc@washpost.com, > >letters@dfpress.com, > >radio1@ikp.atm.com.pl, > >crnews@hcr.net, > >letters@th-record.com, > >riverrep@zelacom.com, > >sentinel@colbsent.com, > >news@keenesentinel.com, > >sentinel@rny.com, > >evesun@norwich.net, > >news@telegraph-nh.com, > >editor@beaconhilltimes.com, > >ct_editor@cc.rochester.edu, > >gdt@ecnnews.com, > >andergb@nytimes.com, > >palladiu@knighted.com, > >newsroom@S-T.com, > >newtimes@ras.com, > >khanner@wt.infi.net, > >abcnews@class.org, > >rmoore@igc.apc.org, > >Amanda@broadcastnews.com, > >cspanprogm@aol.com, > >cspanviewr@aol.com, > >decc@cs.uchicago.edu, > >detailsmag@aol.com, > >ejnusa@aol.com, > >fj@flintj.com, > >friday@indiana.edu, > >gqmag@aol.com, > >hci@chron.com, > >kai@ikp.atm.com.pl, > >kcbx@slonet.org, > >kiro@halcyon.com, > >kuow@u.washington.edu, > >law@det-freepress.com, > >lens@utne.com, > >letter@globe.com, > >Thpa2d@aol.com, > >letterbox@wshb.csms.com, > >letters@byu.edu, > >letters@freenet.fsu.edu, > >letters@statesman.com, > >market@mizar.usc.edu, > >mnews@world.std.com, > >Virgil Tipton@pd.stlnet.com, > >news@who-radio.com, > >news21a@yfn.ysu.edu, > >newsbytes@genie.geis.com, > >newsfour@aol.com, > >nightly@news.nbc.com, > >nyt@blythe.org, > >phxgazette@aol.com, > >playboy@class.com, > >povonline@aol.com, > >radio@ohiou.edu, > >rollingstone@echonyc.com, > >scifri@aol.com, > >sfexaminer@aol.com, > >smeditor@andrews.edu, > >stareditor@starnews.com, > >sun-news@cornell.edu, > >Sweitzer@wish-tv.com, > >al13news@aol.com, > >the.editors@sltrib.com, > >tribletter@aol.com, > >tv@ohiou.edu, > >tv9@aol.com, > >twonews@basys.svt.se, > >vanpaper@aol.com, > >vic@access.digex.net, > >voice@echonyc.com, > >vpress@aol.com, > >bcastboy@aol.com, > >briefe@taz.de, > >city_desk@freepress.mb.ca, > >esommer@pipeline.com, > >usatoday@clark.net, > >wabi@wabi-tv.com, > >The_Boston_Globe@globe.com, > >wane-tv@cris.com, > >news@wbaltv.com, > >wbay@aol.com, > >news@wbff45.com, > >dparker@wbns10tv.com, > >wboc@wboc.com, > >wbrz@aol.com, > >webmaster@wbtv.com, > >4news@wbz.com, > >wcianews@soltec.net, > >feedback@wcpx.com, > >info@wcsh6.com, > >news@wdbj7.com, > >wdhn@aol.com, > >wdio@aol.com, > >wdtn@aol.com, > >wdtv@wdtv.com, > >MidYrkWkly@aol.com, > >DiTCW@aol.com, > >info@wevv.com, > >giveme5@wews.com, > >wfaa@aol.com, > >fmy2@aol.com, > >wfrv@dct.com, > >wfsb@wfsb.com, > >feedback@wgbh.org, > >tvmail@wgme-tv.com, > >wgnxtv@aol.com, > >7online@whiotv.erinet.com, > >whoitv@aol.com, > >13news@wibw.com, > >talkback@wisctv.com, > >wishmail@wish-tv.com, > >tv22wjcl@aol.com, > >grayp@wjz.com, > >Comments@wkbn.com, > >news8@centuryinter.net, > >tv5@wkrg.com, > >wkyt@lex.infi.net, > >wlfi2@iquest.net, > >wlky@iglou.com, > >wlos@aol.com, > >wlox@wlox.com, > >wb56mail@aol.com, > >wmbb13@aol.com, > >news47@wmdt.com, > >wmdt@wmdt.com, > >comments@mpt.org, > >wmtw@wmtw.com, > >wmur@aol.com, > >wowk@ramlink.net, > >wpta@aol.com, > >wqadtv@aol.com, > >newstip@wral-tv.com, > >wrdw@wrdw.com, > >wrtv@aol.com, > >wsbtnews@wsbt.com, > >wseenews@erie.net, > >wsyx@aol.com, > >wten@aol.com, > >wtnh@aol.com, > >wtoctv@premierweb.net, > >wtoktv@aol.com, > >toledo11@aol.com, > >wtrf@hgo.net, > >tampas10@aol.com, > >nashnc5@nc5.infi.net, > >wtvh@wtvh.com, > >wtvq@keithcom.com, > >newsroom@wtvy.com, > >9news@wusatv.com, > >abc7@aol.com, > >4INFO@WWL-TV.COM, > >news@wwlp.com, > >wwsbnews@aol.com, > >wxvt@tecinfo.com, > >wyou@microserv.net, > >wzzmtv@aol.com, > >editor@zum.com, > > - - ------------------------------ End of roc-digest V2 #48 ************************